Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Past is Not Another Country

12467

Comments

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,037
    Off topic: Two hedgehogs in our garden. Lovely to see them.

    Night all.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Poor effort to just wave a picture. He should have had a nice, shiny model plane.
    That plane is Boeing's "Dreamlifter", a modified 747 they use to transport parts for the 787. What's Trump saying they're going to be doing with it?
    He said nothing. Just a Boeing ad.
    Ah okay, so just a generic 'photo of a plane with Boeing written on the side', that happens to be a very specific plane with a very specific use.

    He'd have been better off with a photo of the 747 that says USA down the side!
    He said Boeing are letting them use it to move "product" around the USA.
    Very large and light weight "product", obviously. A 'normal' 747 plane carries double the cargo weight and uses half as much fuel as that monstrosity.
    "At 65,000 cubic feet the Dreamlifter can hold three times the volume of a 747-400F freighter."
    But is only holds about 60 tonnes of cargo when full of fuel, half that of a normal 747. And the cargo bay isn't pressurised.

    Call it 65 tonnes to make the maths easier, what do you know that weighs only one tonne per thousand cubic feet (c.10kg/mˆ3), that might need urgently transporting?
    Hot air?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    edited March 2020
    Foxy said:

    Wow, this is a weird bug.

    I was well enough to do some light gardening today, have a drive through swab and Zoom a Church Committee meeting. Feeling so fine that I was wondering if it was my imagination.

    Then suddenly a tight chest, light headed and a real effort to breath. O2 sats remaining good, but scary.

    What do you think is happening in the body for it to yo yo like this?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Wow, this is a weird bug.

    I was well enough to do some light gardening today, have a drive through swab and Zoom a Church Committee meeting. Feeling so fine that I was wondering if it was my imagination.

    Then suddenly a tight chest, light headed and a real effort to breath. O2 sats remaining good, but scary.

    What do you think is happening in the body for it to yo yo like this?
    The body has fuck all clue to deal with this virus...that's the thing...so it makes it up as it goes along....and there are no therapies....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    Wow, this is a weird bug.

    I was well enough to do some light gardening today, have a drive through swab and Zoom a Church Committee meeting. Feeling so fine that I was wondering if it was my imagination.

    Then suddenly a tight chest, light headed and a real effort to breath. O2 sats remaining good, but scary.

    I had similae issues on the worst days. Sudden shortness of breath caused by absolutely nothing. General light headedness and extreme tiredness. I would suddenly become very sleepy and not wake up for 3 or 4 hours. My body would ache when I did wake up. It was terrible.
    Yes, passing off already, but weirdly episodic. Peak flow remaining good too, but that tests outflow obstruction mostly.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,609
    MaxPB said:

    Branson has asked for a bailout. I really hope the government tells him where to go. He has £4bn in the bank, he can put his own money in.

    LOL. He can go do one, no chance the government are going to bail him out.

    Wasn't he squealing at the government over helping out FlyBe with deferred tax payments, only a couple of months ago?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    Wow, this is a weird bug.

    I was well enough to do some light gardening today, have a drive through swab and Zoom a Church Committee meeting. Feeling so fine that I was wondering if it was my imagination.

    Then suddenly a tight chest, light headed and a real effort to breath. O2 sats remaining good, but scary.

    I had similae issues on the worst days. Sudden shortness of breath caused by absolutely nothing. General light headedness and extreme tiredness. I would suddenly become very sleepy and not wake up for 3 or 4 hours. My body would ache when I did wake up. It was terrible.
    Yes, passing off already, but weirdly episodic. Peak flow remaining good too, but that tests outflow obstruction mostly.
    Hope you get better soon. Got my fingers crossed. I know people aren't taking it seriously but it can suddenly get quite bad without having any issues for 12-18h.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    I see large parts of the media are basically saying serves you right Boris and Hancock for getting it, you didn't practice what you preach.

    They have to find their spin angle to do down Boris.

    Don't expect any sympathy if you and yours and go down with it, guys.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    I see large parts of the media are basically saying serves you right Boris and Hancock for getting it, you didn't practice what you preach.

    They have to find their spin angle to do down Boris.

    Don't expect any sympathy if you and yours and go down with it, guys.
    And if they had hidden away from them and only come out in Putin-esque hazmat suits, they would have been accused of trying avoid the media, getting preferential treatment and scaring the public.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,609
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Poor effort to just wave a picture. He should have had a nice, shiny model plane.
    That plane is Boeing's "Dreamlifter", a modified 747 they use to transport parts for the 787. What's Trump saying they're going to be doing with it?
    He said nothing. Just a Boeing ad.
    Ah okay, so just a generic 'photo of a plane with Boeing written on the side', that happens to be a very specific plane with a very specific use.

    He'd have been better off with a photo of the 747 that says USA down the side!
    He said Boeing are letting them use it to move "product" around the USA.
    Very large and light weight "product", obviously. A 'normal' 747 plane carries double the cargo weight and uses half as much fuel as that monstrosity.
    "At 65,000 cubic feet the Dreamlifter can hold three times the volume of a 747-400F freighter."
    But is only holds about 60 tonnes of cargo when full of fuel, half that of a normal 747. And the cargo bay isn't pressurised.

    Call it 65 tonnes to make the maths easier, what do you know that weighs only one tonne per thousand cubic feet (c.10kg/mˆ3), that might need urgently transporting?
    Hot air?
    Only if they want to turn it into cold air, by flying it at 30,000' in an unpressurised plane :)

    As you know, gas is much better transported in pressurised tanks, which are bloody heavy!
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    malcolmg said:

    tyson said:

    I think tonight is the first time I really do think the real economy will be unable to withstand this...it's all too fragile. It's not geared up for this kind of shock...this horrible virus is going to take the whole thing down...banks, personal finances, national finances...and everything that goes with it...there is no safe place for money....the only good thing about gold will be to wear it....



    you been taken over by eadric
    I go back a long way with Mr Thomas....he's a kindred spirit....

    The news on my nephew...a London doctor....he was pollaxed yesterday, and planning how he could cope with the Excel centre.....tonight he's wolfed down an extra large donna kebab.....and asked for extra chilli sauce....


  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    eadric said:

    I see large parts of the media are basically saying serves you right Boris and Hancock for getting it, you didn't practice what you preach.

    They have to find their spin angle to do down Boris.

    Don't expect any sympathy if you and yours and go down with it, guys.
    And if they had hidden away from them and only come out in Putin-esque hazmat suits, they would have been accused of trying avoid the media, getting preferential treatment and scaring the public.
    I begin to despise the media.

    Enough of their crap.
    I have to say I logged onto the twitter machine this evening and I saw rather a lot of FFS Beth Rigby you total idiot.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,291
    Hope you feel better soon Dr Fox In Socks In Ox.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Poor effort to just wave a picture. He should have had a nice, shiny model plane.
    That plane is Boeing's "Dreamlifter", a modified 747 they use to transport parts for the 787. What's Trump saying they're going to be doing with it?
    He said nothing. Just a Boeing ad.
    Ah okay, so just a generic 'photo of a plane with Boeing written on the side', that happens to be a very specific plane with a very specific use.

    He'd have been better off with a photo of the 747 that says USA down the side!
    He said Boeing are letting them use it to move "product" around the USA.
    Very large and light weight "product", obviously. A 'normal' 747 plane carries double the cargo weight and uses half as much fuel as that monstrosity.
    "At 65,000 cubic feet the Dreamlifter can hold three times the volume of a 747-400F freighter."
    But is only holds about 60 tonnes of cargo when full of fuel, half that of a normal 747. And the cargo bay isn't pressurised.

    Call it 65 tonnes to make the maths easier, what do you know that weighs only one tonne per thousand cubic feet (c.10kg/mˆ3), that might need urgently transporting?
    Trump's credibility?
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Foxy said:

    Wow, this is a weird bug.

    I was well enough to do some light gardening today, have a drive through swab and Zoom a Church Committee meeting. Feeling so fine that I was wondering if it was my imagination.

    Then suddenly a tight chest, light headed and a real effort to breath. O2 sats remaining good, but scary.

    Yes similar to me. Unfortunately it seems to be like that the whole way through. My wife on Day 5 thought she was slowly getting better. She started tidying a bit and we tried making a proper tea. She was then in bed for 36 hours with fever and shallow breath. Sats fine but a real noticeable problem breathing. Really frightening. She's doing better now but not 100% confident it is done yet. If you start feeling better don't get too carried away. Take it easy and give it a few days.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    eadric said:

    I see large parts of the media are basically saying serves you right Boris and Hancock for getting it, you didn't practice what you preach.

    They have to find their spin angle to do down Boris.

    Don't expect any sympathy if you and yours and go down with it, guys.
    And if they had hidden away from them and only come out in Putin-esque hazmat suits, they would have been accused of trying avoid the media, getting preferential treatment and scaring the public.
    I begin to despise the media.

    Enough of their crap.
    There is something about Boris that tells me he doesn't like to wash his hands...he's a bit of a grubby fucker....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    tyson said:

    malcolmg said:

    tyson said:

    I think tonight is the first time I really do think the real economy will be unable to withstand this...it's all too fragile. It's not geared up for this kind of shock...this horrible virus is going to take the whole thing down...banks, personal finances, national finances...and everything that goes with it...there is no safe place for money....the only good thing about gold will be to wear it....



    you been taken over by eadric
    I go back a long way with Mr Thomas....he's a kindred spirit....

    The news on my nephew...a London doctor....he was pollaxed yesterday, and planning how he could cope with the Excel centre.....tonight he's wolfed down an extra large donna kebab.....and asked for extra chilli sauce....
    I have never had anything like it. Still no fever though.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,609

    eadric said:

    I see large parts of the media are basically saying serves you right Boris and Hancock for getting it, you didn't practice what you preach.

    They have to find their spin angle to do down Boris.

    Don't expect any sympathy if you and yours and go down with it, guys.
    And if they had hidden away from them and only come out in Putin-esque hazmat suits, they would have been accused of trying avoid the media, getting preferential treatment and scaring the public.
    I begin to despise the media.

    Enough of their crap.
    I have to say I logged onto the twitter machine this evening and I saw rather a lot of FFS Beth Rigby you total idiot.
    Hopefully the penny is slowly starting to drop among the media.

    PM being out of action is a perfect excuse to drop the press conference format and replace with a scientists' briefing to scientific media, not the Lobby.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,291
    Hope you get better soon Gideon The Wise (and Mrs Wise of course)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Sandpit said:

    eadric said:

    I see large parts of the media are basically saying serves you right Boris and Hancock for getting it, you didn't practice what you preach.

    They have to find their spin angle to do down Boris.

    Don't expect any sympathy if you and yours and go down with it, guys.
    And if they had hidden away from them and only come out in Putin-esque hazmat suits, they would have been accused of trying avoid the media, getting preferential treatment and scaring the public.
    I begin to despise the media.

    Enough of their crap.
    I have to say I logged onto the twitter machine this evening and I saw rather a lot of FFS Beth Rigby you total idiot.
    Hopefully the penny is slowly starting to drop among the media.

    PM being out of action is a perfect excuse to drop the press conference format and replace with a scientists' briefing to scientific media, not the Lobby.
    It really isn't though. The press pack are still 100% in "gotcha" mode. They even try and do it to egg-heads now.

    They are getting worse every day.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    "I was presiding over the most successful economy in the history of the world".....

    Strangely that press conference was the most impressive I have yet heard from Trump. Random streams of thoughts, barbs and nonsense but it somehow just about worked for me this time.
    He was completely different from yesterday.

    Someone finally got him to realise that this shit is the real thing?

    On that note I have seen a bunch of comments saying this is a scare story by the NWO to bring about a world government ......
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:

    Wow, this is a weird bug.

    I was well enough to do some light gardening today, have a drive through swab and Zoom a Church Committee meeting. Feeling so fine that I was wondering if it was my imagination.

    Then suddenly a tight chest, light headed and a real effort to breath. O2 sats remaining good, but scary.

    Yes similar to me. Unfortunately it seems to be like that the whole way through. My wife on Day 5 thought she was slowly getting better. She started tidying a bit and we tried making a proper tea. She was then in bed for 36 hours with fever and shallow breath. Sats fine but a real noticeable problem breathing. Really frightening. She's doing better now but not 100% confident it is done yet. If you start feeling better don't get too carried away. Take it easy and give it a few days.
    Yes, am planning a quiet weekend, indeed isn't everyone?

    I am back at work next Thursday, so hope to be clear by then. The on call team could be rather thin by then...


  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    Wow, this is a weird bug.

    I was well enough to do some light gardening today, have a drive through swab and Zoom a Church Committee meeting. Feeling so fine that I was wondering if it was my imagination.

    Then suddenly a tight chest, light headed and a real effort to breath. O2 sats remaining good, but scary.

    I had similae issues on the worst days. Sudden shortness of breath caused by absolutely nothing. General light headedness and extreme tiredness. I would suddenly become very sleepy and not wake up for 3 or 4 hours. My body would ache when I did wake up. It was terrible.
    Yes, passing off already, but weirdly episodic. Peak flow remaining good too, but that tests outflow obstruction mostly.
    Get well soon Foxy
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    Foxy said:

    tyson said:

    malcolmg said:

    tyson said:

    I think tonight is the first time I really do think the real economy will be unable to withstand this...it's all too fragile. It's not geared up for this kind of shock...this horrible virus is going to take the whole thing down...banks, personal finances, national finances...and everything that goes with it...there is no safe place for money....the only good thing about gold will be to wear it....



    you been taken over by eadric
    I go back a long way with Mr Thomas....he's a kindred spirit....

    The news on my nephew...a London doctor....he was pollaxed yesterday, and planning how he could cope with the Excel centre.....tonight he's wolfed down an extra large donna kebab.....and asked for extra chilli sauce....
    I have never had anything like it. Still no fever though.
    Really look after yourself Fox....

    This thing is terrifying...it really is...

    you walk around the streets and people jump away from you because they are scared....

    Healthy people die in a day own two...meanwhile others struggle for weeks before they succumb...some people don't know they have had it....

    Gideon....I'm glad he's here was terrified and posted it.....and his wife is still poorly on and off....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Sandpit said:

    eadric said:

    I see large parts of the media are basically saying serves you right Boris and Hancock for getting it, you didn't practice what you preach.

    They have to find their spin angle to do down Boris.

    Don't expect any sympathy if you and yours and go down with it, guys.
    And if they had hidden away from them and only come out in Putin-esque hazmat suits, they would have been accused of trying avoid the media, getting preferential treatment and scaring the public.
    I begin to despise the media.

    Enough of their crap.
    I have to say I logged onto the twitter machine this evening and I saw rather a lot of FFS Beth Rigby you total idiot.
    Hopefully the penny is slowly starting to drop among the media.

    PM being out of action is a perfect excuse to drop the press conference format and replace with a scientists' briefing to scientific media, not the Lobby.
    Yes, get the political journalists out and the health and science journalists in. Better for everyone.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    The worst part about the press being absolutely crap at their jobs is that there are some real questions about all of this that need answers.

    One I'd want answered by the NHS manager is why there seems to be an acute shortage of PPE at London hospitals and what steps are being taken to alleviate it and when can frontline staff expect the shortage to end. These are questions that doctors I know personally want answered and they aren't getting anything useful from the managers or the BMA and they feel as though they aren't being listened to.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    tyson said:

    eadric said:

    I see large parts of the media are basically saying serves you right Boris and Hancock for getting it, you didn't practice what you preach.

    They have to find their spin angle to do down Boris.

    Don't expect any sympathy if you and yours and go down with it, guys.
    And if they had hidden away from them and only come out in Putin-esque hazmat suits, they would have been accused of trying avoid the media, getting preferential treatment and scaring the public.
    I begin to despise the media.

    Enough of their crap.
    There is something about Boris that tells me he doesn't like to wash his hands...he's a bit of a grubby fucker....
    You really have lost all sense of proportion.....
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    tyson said:

    eadric said:

    I see large parts of the media are basically saying serves you right Boris and Hancock for getting it, you didn't practice what you preach.

    They have to find their spin angle to do down Boris.

    Don't expect any sympathy if you and yours and go down with it, guys.
    And if they had hidden away from them and only come out in Putin-esque hazmat suits, they would have been accused of trying avoid the media, getting preferential treatment and scaring the public.
    I begin to despise the media.

    Enough of their crap.
    There is something about Boris that tells me he doesn't like to wash his hands...he's a bit of a grubby fucker....
    You really have lost all sense of proportion.....
    I'm joking....if you cannot joke in a time of crisis..when can you?

    It's Boris's hair shuffling....

    if I picked this thing up (or when) I'd like nothing more than someone to poke fun at me rather than be morbid....

    Or do you subscribe to the view that we have to deify those above us?.
  • ABZABZ Posts: 441
    Sturgeon said there were 72 people in ICU in Scotland at present. Assuming this scales up there would be ~1000 people suffering from Covid-19 in ICU beds around the UK. At an equivalent stage (4 days into their lockdown), Italy had 1328 patients in the ICU (with nearly half of those in Lombardy). This, plus the number of deaths, would this imply that our peak number of cases / mortality might be a little less than Italy? Or is this just wishful thinking?
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Wow, this is a weird bug.

    I was well enough to do some light gardening today, have a drive through swab and Zoom a Church Committee meeting. Feeling so fine that I was wondering if it was my imagination.

    Then suddenly a tight chest, light headed and a real effort to breath. O2 sats remaining good, but scary.

    Yes similar to me. Unfortunately it seems to be like that the whole way through. My wife on Day 5 thought she was slowly getting better. She started tidying a bit and we tried making a proper tea. She was then in bed for 36 hours with fever and shallow breath. Sats fine but a real noticeable problem breathing. Really frightening. She's doing better now but not 100% confident it is done yet. If you start feeling better don't get too carried away. Take it easy and give it a few days.
    Yes, am planning a quiet weekend, indeed isn't everyone?

    I am back at work next Thursday, so hope to be clear by then. The on call team could be rather thin by then...


    Don't you think the constant repetition of the signs and symptoms of Covid19 being a cough or fever has not prepared people for the really frightening (but seemingly common) symptom of shortness of breath?

    I think we need more case studies in the media of the heterogeneity in how it presents and then progresses. This will help people to set expectations and understand what the trigger points are to seek further help.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Wow, this is a weird bug.

    I was well enough to do some light gardening today, have a drive through swab and Zoom a Church Committee meeting. Feeling so fine that I was wondering if it was my imagination.

    Then suddenly a tight chest, light headed and a real effort to breath. O2 sats remaining good, but scary.

    Yes similar to me. Unfortunately it seems to be like that the whole way through. My wife on Day 5 thought she was slowly getting better. She started tidying a bit and we tried making a proper tea. She was then in bed for 36 hours with fever and shallow breath. Sats fine but a real noticeable problem breathing. Really frightening. She's doing better now but not 100% confident it is done yet. If you start feeling better don't get too carried away. Take it easy and give it a few days.
    Yes, am planning a quiet weekend, indeed isn't everyone?

    I am back at work next Thursday, so hope to be clear by then. The on call team could be rather thin by then...


    Don't you think the constant repetition of the signs and symptoms of Covid19 being a cough or fever has not prepared people for the really frightening (but seemingly common) symptom of shortness of breath?

    I think we need more case studies in the media of the heterogeneity in how it presents and then progresses. This will help people to set expectations and understand what the trigger points are to seek further help.
    I think the government need to do better on communicating exactly when it is that you need to go from stay at home, to get yourself to hospitals ASAP.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Wow, this is a weird bug.

    I was well enough to do some light gardening today, have a drive through swab and Zoom a Church Committee meeting. Feeling so fine that I was wondering if it was my imagination.

    Then suddenly a tight chest, light headed and a real effort to breath. O2 sats remaining good, but scary.

    Yes similar to me. Unfortunately it seems to be like that the whole way through. My wife on Day 5 thought she was slowly getting better. She started tidying a bit and we tried making a proper tea. She was then in bed for 36 hours with fever and shallow breath. Sats fine but a real noticeable problem breathing. Really frightening. She's doing better now but not 100% confident it is done yet. If you start feeling better don't get too carried away. Take it easy and give it a few days.
    Yes, am planning a quiet weekend, indeed isn't everyone?

    I am back at work next Thursday, so hope to be clear by then. The on call team could be rather thin by then...


    Don't you think the constant repetition of the signs and symptoms of Covid19 being a cough or fever has not prepared people for the really frightening (but seemingly common) symptom of shortness of breath?

    I think we need more case studies in the media of the heterogeneity in how it presents and then progresses. This will help people to set expectations and understand what the trigger points are to seek further help.
    I think the government need to do better on communicating exactly when it is that you need to go from stay at home, to get yourself to hospitals ASAP.
    The Govt wants to keep as many people from hospitals as it can.....

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Wow, this is a weird bug.

    I was well enough to do some light gardening today, have a drive through swab and Zoom a Church Committee meeting. Feeling so fine that I was wondering if it was my imagination.

    Then suddenly a tight chest, light headed and a real effort to breath. O2 sats remaining good, but scary.

    Yes similar to me. Unfortunately it seems to be like that the whole way through. My wife on Day 5 thought she was slowly getting better. She started tidying a bit and we tried making a proper tea. She was then in bed for 36 hours with fever and shallow breath. Sats fine but a real noticeable problem breathing. Really frightening. She's doing better now but not 100% confident it is done yet. If you start feeling better don't get too carried away. Take it easy and give it a few days.
    Yes, am planning a quiet weekend, indeed isn't everyone?

    I am back at work next Thursday, so hope to be clear by then. The on call team could be rather thin by then...


    Don't you think the constant repetition of the signs and symptoms of Covid19 being a cough or fever has not prepared people for the really frightening (but seemingly common) symptom of shortness of breath?

    I think we need more case studies in the media of the heterogeneity in how it presents and then progresses. This will help people to set expectations and understand what the trigger points are to seek further help.
    I think the government need to do better on communicating exactly when it is that you need to go from stay at home, to get yourself to hospitals ASAP.
    To be fair, the 111 algorithm does do that. I went through it so that I could get my isolation note.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    ABZ said:

    Sturgeon said there were 72 people in ICU in Scotland at present. Assuming this scales up there would be ~1000 people suffering from Covid-19 in ICU beds around the UK. At an equivalent stage (4 days into their lockdown), Italy had 1328 patients in the ICU (with nearly half of those in Lombardy). This, plus the number of deaths, would this imply that our peak number of cases / mortality might be a little less than Italy? Or is this just wishful thinking?

    It may not scale up in a linear fashion. Scotland has a greater proportion of people with underlying health conditions than England. Scotland may have a higher rate of serious hospitalisation than England and Wales do to poor dietary standards causing health issues.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Wow, this is a weird bug.

    I was well enough to do some light gardening today, have a drive through swab and Zoom a Church Committee meeting. Feeling so fine that I was wondering if it was my imagination.

    Then suddenly a tight chest, light headed and a real effort to breath. O2 sats remaining good, but scary.

    Yes similar to me. Unfortunately it seems to be like that the whole way through. My wife on Day 5 thought she was slowly getting better. She started tidying a bit and we tried making a proper tea. She was then in bed for 36 hours with fever and shallow breath. Sats fine but a real noticeable problem breathing. Really frightening. She's doing better now but not 100% confident it is done yet. If you start feeling better don't get too carried away. Take it easy and give it a few days.
    Yes, am planning a quiet weekend, indeed isn't everyone?

    I am back at work next Thursday, so hope to be clear by then. The on call team could be rather thin by then...


    Don't you think the constant repetition of the signs and symptoms of Covid19 being a cough or fever has not prepared people for the really frightening (but seemingly common) symptom of shortness of breath?

    I think we need more case studies in the media of the heterogeneity in how it presents and then progresses. This will help people to set expectations and understand what the trigger points are to seek further help.
    Yes, my cough is annoying rather than distressing, it is the other symptoms...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,880
    MaxPB said:

    ABZ said:

    Sturgeon said there were 72 people in ICU in Scotland at present. Assuming this scales up there would be ~1000 people suffering from Covid-19 in ICU beds around the UK. At an equivalent stage (4 days into their lockdown), Italy had 1328 patients in the ICU (with nearly half of those in Lombardy). This, plus the number of deaths, would this imply that our peak number of cases / mortality might be a little less than Italy? Or is this just wishful thinking?

    It may not scale up in a linear fashion. Scotland has a greater proportion of people with underlying health conditions than England. Scotland may have a higher rate of serious hospitalisation than England and Wales do to poor dietary standards causing health issues.
    Wales has more deaths from Covid per capita than Scotland.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    Another bailout request.

    "Virgin Atlantic to seek bailout in coming days"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52066640
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,880
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Poor effort to just wave a picture. He should have had a nice, shiny model plane.
    That plane is Boeing's "Dreamlifter", a modified 747 they use to transport parts for the 787. What's Trump saying they're going to be doing with it?
    He said nothing. Just a Boeing ad.
    Ah okay, so just a generic 'photo of a plane with Boeing written on the side', that happens to be a very specific plane with a very specific use.

    He'd have been better off with a photo of the 747 that says USA down the side!
    He said Boeing are letting them use it to move "product" around the USA.
    Very large and light weight "product", obviously. A 'normal' 747 plane carries double the cargo weight and uses half as much fuel as that monstrosity.
    "At 65,000 cubic feet the Dreamlifter can hold three times the volume of a 747-400F freighter."
    But is only holds about 60 tonnes of cargo when full of fuel, half that of a normal 747. And the cargo bay isn't pressurised.

    Call it 65 tonnes to make the maths easier, what do you know that weighs only one tonne per thousand cubic feet (c.10kg/mˆ3), that might need urgently transporting?
    @Sandpit Oops! I mistook volume for weight :(
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Andy_JS said:

    Another bailout request.

    "Virgin Atlantic to seek bailout in coming days"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52066640

    I can already hear the cackling from BA HQ with their £10bn cash reserve.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Wow, this is a weird bug.

    I was well enough to do some light gardening today, have a drive through swab and Zoom a Church Committee meeting. Feeling so fine that I was wondering if it was my imagination.

    Then suddenly a tight chest, light headed and a real effort to breath. O2 sats remaining good, but scary.

    Yes similar to me. Unfortunately it seems to be like that the whole way through. My wife on Day 5 thought she was slowly getting better. She started tidying a bit and we tried making a proper tea. She was then in bed for 36 hours with fever and shallow breath. Sats fine but a real noticeable problem breathing. Really frightening. She's doing better now but not 100% confident it is done yet. If you start feeling better don't get too carried away. Take it easy and give it a few days.
    Yes, am planning a quiet weekend, indeed isn't everyone?

    I am back at work next Thursday, so hope to be clear by then. The on call team could be rather thin by then...


    Don't you think the constant repetition of the signs and symptoms of Covid19 being a cough or fever has not prepared people for the really frightening (but seemingly common) symptom of shortness of breath?

    I think we need more case studies in the media of the heterogeneity in how it presents and then progresses. This will help people to set expectations and understand what the trigger points are to seek further help.
    Yes, my cough is annoying rather than distressing, it is the other symptoms...
    You'll get through it Foxy.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    Andy_JS said:

    Another bailout request.

    "Virgin Atlantic to seek bailout in coming days"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52066640

    A bailout to save a brand would be pointless. The planes and the pilots aren't going anywhere. If their owners won't save them then I'm sure that the new replacements will be fine.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Chameleon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Another bailout request.

    "Virgin Atlantic to seek bailout in coming days"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52066640

    A bailout to save a brand would be pointless. The planes and the pilots aren't going anywhere. If their owners won't save them then I'm sure that the new replacements will be fine.
    So long as the demand is there once we're all through this.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    rcs1000 said:

    On a totally different issue:

    I far prefer the one hour episodes of Poirot to the two hour episodes.

    My wife alternates between Poirot and Columbo.

    Wierd taste in rollplay in your house.
    Role play, unless a deliberate slip? :lol:
    Weird spelling of weird too.

    Fox News has Biden 49 / Trumpton 40
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited March 2020
    RobD said:

    Chameleon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Another bailout request.

    "Virgin Atlantic to seek bailout in coming days"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52066640

    A bailout to save a brand would be pointless. The planes and the pilots aren't going anywhere. If their owners won't save them then I'm sure that the new replacements will be fine.
    So long as the demand is there once we're all through this.
    If it isn't there then even if we bail VA out then it'll eventually collapse anyway.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Chameleon said:

    RobD said:

    Chameleon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Another bailout request.

    "Virgin Atlantic to seek bailout in coming days"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52066640

    A bailout to save a brand would be pointless. The planes and the pilots aren't going anywhere. If their owners won't save them then I'm sure that the new replacements will be fine.
    So long as the demand is there once we're all through this.
    If it isn't there then even if we bail VA out then it'll eventually collapse anyway.
    A very good point!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    ABZ said:

    Sturgeon said there were 72 people in ICU in Scotland at present. Assuming this scales up there would be ~1000 people suffering from Covid-19 in ICU beds around the UK. At an equivalent stage (4 days into their lockdown), Italy had 1328 patients in the ICU (with nearly half of those in Lombardy). This, plus the number of deaths, would this imply that our peak number of cases / mortality might be a little less than Italy? Or is this just wishful thinking?

    I think it depends. The really important thing is to avoid CV-19 getting into nursing homes. Because that's where it runs rampant.

    And I think we're a lot further ahead of the curve there than Italy.
  • Chameleon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Another bailout request.

    "Virgin Atlantic to seek bailout in coming days"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52066640

    A bailout to save a brand would be pointless. The planes and the pilots aren't going anywhere. If their owners won't save them then I'm sure that the new replacements will be fine.
    Branson's web of companies and investments therein may be not in a place to fund a rescue themselves?
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    rcs1000 said:

    ABZ said:

    Sturgeon said there were 72 people in ICU in Scotland at present. Assuming this scales up there would be ~1000 people suffering from Covid-19 in ICU beds around the UK. At an equivalent stage (4 days into their lockdown), Italy had 1328 patients in the ICU (with nearly half of those in Lombardy). This, plus the number of deaths, would this imply that our peak number of cases / mortality might be a little less than Italy? Or is this just wishful thinking?

    I think it depends. The really important thing is to avoid CV-19 getting into nursing homes. Because that's where it runs rampant.

    And I think we're a lot further ahead of the curve there than Italy.
    Absolutely. But none of these deaths will pop up in any current mortality statistics as the patients sadly wouldn't make it to a hospital. Instead they would be given palliative care.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    MaxPB said:

    Branson has asked for a bailout. I really hope the government tells him where to go. He has £4bn in the bank, he can put his own money in.

    I suspect he has (like many rich people) got f*ck all in the bank. He'll have a £10bn of assets and £6bn of debt.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,373
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Branson has asked for a bailout. I really hope the government tells him where to go. He has £4bn in the bank, he can put his own money in.

    I suspect he has (like many rich people) got f*ck all in the bank. He'll have a £10bn of assets and £6bn of debt.
    Without causing trouble for OGH - it is worth looking at Private Eye's opinion on Branson's finances over the years.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Another bailout request.

    "Virgin Atlantic to seek bailout in coming days"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52066640

    I can already hear the cackling from BA HQ with their £10bn cash reserve.
    BA doesn't really have a £10bn cash reserve. They have £4bn in cash, and various lease and finance payments will hammer through that in six months.

    That said, they are financially sound, so I would expect them to be able to ride this out.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Another bailout request.

    "Virgin Atlantic to seek bailout in coming days"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52066640

    I can already hear the cackling from BA HQ with their £10bn cash reserve.
    BA doesn't really have a £10bn cash reserve. They have £4bn in cash, and various lease and finance payments will hammer through that in six months.

    That said, they are financially sound, so I would expect them to be able to ride this out.
    To think a few weeks ago some on here were criticising BA for going too far with cost cutting
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Another bailout request.

    "Virgin Atlantic to seek bailout in coming days"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52066640

    I can already hear the cackling from BA HQ with their £10bn cash reserve.
    BA doesn't really have a £10bn cash reserve. They have £4bn in cash, and various lease and finance payments will hammer through that in six months.

    That said, they are financially sound, so I would expect them to be able to ride this out.
    Well, £4bn is better than no billion! And if we're still under lockdown after six months, every airline is going to be bankrupt.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Another bailout request.

    "Virgin Atlantic to seek bailout in coming days"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52066640

    I can already hear the cackling from BA HQ with their £10bn cash reserve.
    BA doesn't really have a £10bn cash reserve. They have £4bn in cash, and various lease and finance payments will hammer through that in six months.

    That said, they are financially sound, so I would expect them to be able to ride this out.
    Well, £4bn is better than no billion! And if we're still under lockdown after six months, every airline is going to be bankrupt.
    If we're still under lockdown after 6 months the entire economy will be heading for bankruptcy never mind just airlines
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,000
    edited March 2020
    Can we have a sweepstake on which month PBers will once more start whining about the NHS being treated as a religion?
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    HYUFD said:
    If that’s the attitude we’re doomed. It’s as though they want to be Korea but can’t be arsed to put the work in. If they try and force people back into circulation before it’s well and truly beaten here, they’re going to find a hell of a lot of resistance, Or, have the behavioural scientists somehow mislaid the chapter on self preservation?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    ukpaul said:

    HYUFD said:
    If that’s the attitude we’re doomed. It’s as though they want to be Korea but can’t be arsed to put the work in. If they try and force people back into circulation before it’s well and truly beaten here, they’re going to find a hell of a lot of resistance, Or, have the behavioural scientists somehow mislaid the chapter on self preservation?
    Until a vaccine is found it will not be 'well and truly beaten', all you can do is lockdown around the peak and keep increasing testing in the meantime
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited March 2020

    Can we have a sweepstake on which month PBers will once more start whining about the NHS being treated as a religion?
    OK, since you ask, and your post is aimed at denouncing the heresy.

    The British doctors and nurses are equally heroic to the French or German doctors and nurses, but they're going to have to deal with this crisis in a system barely has the capacity to handle a regular seasonal flu.

    British people treat the NHS like a religion, and fewer people would die if they treated it like most other developed countries treat their healthcare systems, instead of a religion.
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    edited March 2020
    HYUFD said:

    ukpaul said:

    HYUFD said:
    If that’s the attitude we’re doomed. It’s as though they want to be Korea but can’t be arsed to put the work in. If they try and force people back into circulation before it’s well and truly beaten here, they’re going to find a hell of a lot of resistance, Or, have the behavioural scientists somehow mislaid the chapter on self preservation?
    Until a vaccine is found it will not be 'well and truly beaten', all you can do is lockdown around the peak and keep increasing testing in the meantime
    People aren't going to work and pack themselves into trains, tubes, offices and factories if they feel that their lives are in danger. There has to be something in place that makes them feel safe. More testing isn't enough, it needs the Korean style tracking and tracing. If Johnson doesn't like that sort of thing then any relaxation isn't going to fly. What's his preference, much closer and invasive surveillance or keeping a high level of lockdown? He can't have both.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,000

    Can we have a sweepstake on which month PBers will once more start whining about the NHS being treated as a religion?
    OK, since you ask, and your post is aimed at denouncing the heresy.

    The British doctors and nurses are equally heroic to the French or German doctors and nurses, but they're going to have to deal with this crisis in a system barely has the capacity to handle a regular seasonal flu.

    British people treat the NHS like a religion, and fewer people would die if they treated it like most other developed countries treat their healthcare systems, instead of a religion.
    Perhaps (as with other faiths) the heretics are as complicit in keeping the NHS religion going as the believers, ie it's a convenient straw man to distract from actually coming up with a workable and likely more expensive alternative.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    ukpaul said:

    HYUFD said:

    ukpaul said:

    HYUFD said:
    If that’s the attitude we’re doomed. It’s as though they want to be Korea but can’t be arsed to put the work in. If they try and force people back into circulation before it’s well and truly beaten here, they’re going to find a hell of a lot of resistance, Or, have the behavioural scientists somehow mislaid the chapter on self preservation?
    Until a vaccine is found it will not be 'well and truly beaten', all you can do is lockdown around the peak and keep increasing testing in the meantime
    People aren't going to work and pack themselves into trains, tubes, offices and factories if they feel that their lives are in danger. There has to be something in place that makes them feel safe. More testing isn't enough, it needs the Korean style tracking and tracing. If Johnson doesn't like that sort of thing then any relaxation isn't going to fly. What's his preference, much closer and invasive surveillance or keeping a high level of lockdown? He can't have both.
    The pictures on the tube from a few days ago suggest otherwise.
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    RobD said:

    ukpaul said:

    HYUFD said:

    ukpaul said:

    HYUFD said:
    If that’s the attitude we’re doomed. It’s as though they want to be Korea but can’t be arsed to put the work in. If they try and force people back into circulation before it’s well and truly beaten here, they’re going to find a hell of a lot of resistance, Or, have the behavioural scientists somehow mislaid the chapter on self preservation?
    Until a vaccine is found it will not be 'well and truly beaten', all you can do is lockdown around the peak and keep increasing testing in the meantime
    People aren't going to work and pack themselves into trains, tubes, offices and factories if they feel that their lives are in danger. There has to be something in place that makes them feel safe. More testing isn't enough, it needs the Korean style tracking and tracing. If Johnson doesn't like that sort of thing then any relaxation isn't going to fly. What's his preference, much closer and invasive surveillance or keeping a high level of lockdown? He can't have both.
    The pictures on the tube from a few days ago suggest otherwise.
    That was because there were fewer tubes running. They're dangerous running like that, the outcry over it wasn't surprising.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    edited March 2020
    ukpaul said:

    RobD said:

    ukpaul said:

    HYUFD said:

    ukpaul said:

    HYUFD said:
    If that’s the attitude we’re doomed. It’s as though they want to be Korea but can’t be arsed to put the work in. If they try and force people back into circulation before it’s well and truly beaten here, they’re going to find a hell of a lot of resistance, Or, have the behavioural scientists somehow mislaid the chapter on self preservation?
    Until a vaccine is found it will not be 'well and truly beaten', all you can do is lockdown around the peak and keep increasing testing in the meantime
    People aren't going to work and pack themselves into trains, tubes, offices and factories if they feel that their lives are in danger. There has to be something in place that makes them feel safe. More testing isn't enough, it needs the Korean style tracking and tracing. If Johnson doesn't like that sort of thing then any relaxation isn't going to fly. What's his preference, much closer and invasive surveillance or keeping a high level of lockdown? He can't have both.
    The pictures on the tube from a few days ago suggest otherwise.
    That was because there were fewer tubes running. They're dangerous running like that, the outcry over it wasn't surprising.
    Yet people were still willing to pack themselves into it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    ukpaul said:

    HYUFD said:

    ukpaul said:

    HYUFD said:
    If that’s the attitude we’re doomed. It’s as though they want to be Korea but can’t be arsed to put the work in. If they try and force people back into circulation before it’s well and truly beaten here, they’re going to find a hell of a lot of resistance, Or, have the behavioural scientists somehow mislaid the chapter on self preservation?
    Until a vaccine is found it will not be 'well and truly beaten', all you can do is lockdown around the peak and keep increasing testing in the meantime
    People aren't going to work and pack themselves into trains, tubes, offices and factories if they feel that their lives are in danger. There has to be something in place that makes them feel safe. More testing isn't enough, it needs the Korean style tracking and tracing. If Johnson doesn't like that sort of thing then any relaxation isn't going to fly. What's his preference, much closer and invasive surveillance or keeping a high level of lockdown? He can't have both.
    He can have both, with lockdown reserved for the peak and we will have to have both
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    ukpaul said:

    HYUFD said:
    If that’s the attitude we’re doomed. It’s as though they want to be Korea but can’t be arsed to put the work in. If they try and force people back into circulation before it’s well and truly beaten here, they’re going to find a hell of a lot of resistance, Or, have the behavioural scientists somehow mislaid the chapter on self preservation?
    What you're describing is a good outcome: You remove the compulsion, and people who really need to travel on the tube do, but people who can reasonably avoid it don't.

    This is a game of averages: The goal is for the average infected person to give it to less than 1 person, instead of the 3 or whatever who would have got it before. If most people don't travel, they hold down their part of the average, and the people who do travel also have a somewhat lower average, because the trains are less crowded.
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649

    ukpaul said:

    HYUFD said:
    If that’s the attitude we’re doomed. It’s as though they want to be Korea but can’t be arsed to put the work in. If they try and force people back into circulation before it’s well and truly beaten here, they’re going to find a hell of a lot of resistance, Or, have the behavioural scientists somehow mislaid the chapter on self preservation?
    What you're describing is a good outcome: You remove the compulsion, and people who really need to travel on the tube do, but people who can reasonably avoid it don't.

    This is a game of averages: The goal is for the average infected person to give it to less than 1 person, instead of the 3 or whatever who would have got it before. If most people don't travel, they hold down their part of the average, and the people who do travel also have a somewhat lower average, because the trains are less crowded.
    Which would be fine if businesses gave their workforce the option of not travelling but that didn't appear to happen. Plenty of people were being coerced into the situation. I don't think they were happy to be on the tube, they were just given little option. That's not a good outcome at all.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    ukpaul said:

    ukpaul said:

    HYUFD said:
    If that’s the attitude we’re doomed. It’s as though they want to be Korea but can’t be arsed to put the work in. If they try and force people back into circulation before it’s well and truly beaten here, they’re going to find a hell of a lot of resistance, Or, have the behavioural scientists somehow mislaid the chapter on self preservation?
    What you're describing is a good outcome: You remove the compulsion, and people who really need to travel on the tube do, but people who can reasonably avoid it don't.

    This is a game of averages: The goal is for the average infected person to give it to less than 1 person, instead of the 3 or whatever who would have got it before. If most people don't travel, they hold down their part of the average, and the people who do travel also have a somewhat lower average, because the trains are less crowded.
    Which would be fine if businesses gave their workforce the option of not travelling but that didn't appear to happen. Plenty of people were being coerced into the situation. I don't think they were happy to be on the tube, they were just given little option. That's not a good outcome at all.
    Fair enough, when I say "good" here I mean relative to the alternatives...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    HYUFD said:
    I'm trying to work out if there is anyone, anywhere who is less self aware than Peter Hitchens.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    This is rather a good little piece on CV-19 from the minute physics guys:
    https://youtu.be/54XLXg4fYsc
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Another bailout request.

    "Virgin Atlantic to seek bailout in coming days"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52066640

    A bailout to save a brand would be pointless. The planes and the pilots aren't going anywhere. If their owners won't save them then I'm sure that the new replacements will be fine.
    I have hundreds of thousands of Virgin miles, so I would be sad to see them go bust. (They also owe me for four flights from Los Angeles to London that are due to fly... tomorrow...)

    But you are absolutely correct that their going bust has very little practical impact. The reality is that the current equity holders lose everything. The debt holders probably take a 20% haircut, and then someone else ends up owning the assets, that they may (or may not) still call Virgin Atlantic.

    I think we all need to be a little bit careful not to coddle the owners of capital too much.

    If Virgin went bust, someone would buy the planes. There would still be demand for flights from London to Los Angeles. In all probability, all the pilots and cabin crew would end up employed.

    Everytime we bail out a Richard Branson, we encourage him to borrow more next time, safe in the knowledge the government will prevent him from going bust.

    Bail outs don't save jobs. They simply worsen wealth inequality.
    Now there's a thread......
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    rcs1000 said:

    This is rather a good little piece on CV-19 from the minute physics guys:
    https://youtu.be/54XLXg4fYsc

    Good item, especially his documentation of limitations.

    The thing I see not mentioned is that this may only be the first wave.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Branson has asked for a bailout. I really hope the government tells him where to go. He has £4bn in the bank, he can put his own money in.

    I suspect he has (like many rich people) got f*ck all in the bank. He'll have a £10bn of assets and £6bn of debt.
    Good luck getting £10 billion for those assets. Or anything like.

    Buyers for airline assets? Not many.

    Sellers of airline assets? Many.....
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Foxy said:

    Wow, this is a weird bug.

    I was well enough to do some light gardening today, have a drive through swab and Zoom a Church Committee meeting. Feeling so fine that I was wondering if it was my imagination.

    Then suddenly a tight chest, light headed and a real effort to breath. O2 sats remaining good, but scary.

    I had similae issues on the worst days. Sudden shortness of breath caused by absolutely nothing. General light headedness and extreme tiredness. I would suddenly become very sleepy and not wake up for 3 or 4 hours. My body would ache when I did wake up. It was terrible.
    Yes, passing off already, but weirdly episodic. Peak flow remaining good too, but that tests outflow obstruction mostly.
    Get well soon Foxy
    Very much seconded.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Good morning, everyone.

    Hope you recover swiftly, Dr. Foxy. And thank you for posting about how quickly the impact can change.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Another bailout request.

    "Virgin Atlantic to seek bailout in coming days"
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52066640

    A bailout to save a brand would be pointless. The planes and the pilots aren't going anywhere. If their owners won't save them then I'm sure that the new replacements will be fine.
    I have hundreds of thousands of Virgin miles, so I would be sad to see them go bust. (They also owe me for four flights from Los Angeles to London that are due to fly... tomorrow...)

    But you are absolutely correct that their going bust has very little practical impact. The reality is that the current equity holders lose everything. The debt holders probably take a 20% haircut, and then someone else ends up owning the assets, that they may (or may not) still call Virgin Atlantic.

    I think we all need to be a little bit careful not to coddle the owners of capital too much.

    If Virgin went bust, someone would buy the planes. There would still be demand for flights from London to Los Angeles. In all probability, all the pilots and cabin crew would end up employed.

    Everytime we bail out a Richard Branson, we encourage him to borrow more next time, safe in the knowledge the government will prevent him from going bust.

    Bail outs don't save jobs. They simply worsen wealth inequality.
    Flight VS688 from JFK lands at Heathrow in 10 minutes...

    I can see that the nation will need functioning airlines again soon, but no bailout should be unconditional. The question is what strings should be attached. Perhaps the official receiver could take over the airline as a going concern, and then privatise it next year.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Good morning, everyone.

    Hope you recover swiftly, Dr. Foxy. And thank you for posting about how quickly the impact can change.

    Feeling a little fragile this morning, but breathing OK.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    Good morning Pb-ers from me, too. Let us hope for, if not good news, a little more sanity. At least, it being Saturday and there's no sport, public transport should be less crowded.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    Life is going to come at Richard Branson fast.

    His sneering and political statements over the last few years are going to do him zero favours.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    Foxy said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Hope you recover swiftly, Dr. Foxy. And thank you for posting about how quickly the impact can change.

    Feeling a little fragile this morning, but breathing OK.
    Up and posting is, I hope, a good sign.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    This is perhaps understandable, but not clever.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/vital-drug-people-lupus-coronavirus-covid-19-link-hydroxychloroquine
    A stampede for an unproven “cure” for Covid-19 is clearing the pharmacy shelves of a medicine that is vital for up to 5 million people around the world suffering from lupus, as countries bow to populist pressure and abandon the trials that would show whether hydroxychloroquine works against coronavirus infection.

    Both Italy and France have said doctors can now prescribe hydroxychloroquine – a less toxic version of the malaria drug chloroquine – even though there is no robust evidence to prove that it is effective against Covid-19.

    Popular pressure for access to the drug has been ramped up by pronouncements from presidents Donald Trump in the US and Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil, both of whom have claimed it is a cure...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    edited March 2020
    Rapid testing for infection will start to be available next week:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/frontline-nhs-staff-first-to-receive-new-covid-19-antigen-tests

    Together with an accurate antibody test, once available on a large scale, this would make track and trace massively simpler.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,225
    edited March 2020
    US starts to roll out antigen tests:

    https://twitter.com/VivekSubbiah/status/1243694224547209217

    (edit)... it appears to be a rapid genetic screen:
    ID NOW is a rapid, instrument-based, isothermal system for the qualitative detection of infectious diseases. Its unique isothermal nucleic acid amplification technology provides molecular results in just minutes...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    So Nadine continuing to work rather than isolating while waiting for her test result is likely responsible for accelerating transmission around Westminster...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    Nigelb said:

    This is perhaps understandable, but not clever.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/vital-drug-people-lupus-coronavirus-covid-19-link-hydroxychloroquine
    A stampede for an unproven “cure” for Covid-19 is clearing the pharmacy shelves of a medicine that is vital for up to 5 million people around the world suffering from lupus, as countries bow to populist pressure and abandon the trials that would show whether hydroxychloroquine works against coronavirus infection.

    Both Italy and France have said doctors can now prescribe hydroxychloroquine – a less toxic version of the malaria drug chloroquine – even though there is no robust evidence to prove that it is effective against Covid-19.

    Popular pressure for access to the drug has been ramped up by pronouncements from presidents Donald Trump in the US and Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil, both of whom have claimed it is a cure...

    A Bulletin yesterday from my IFA referred to Trumps comments as a 'hopeful sign'. I've emailed my disapproval.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Andy_JS said:

    Floater said:

    oh Spain

    Spain 65,719 +7,933 5,138 +773

    The first death in Spain was on 3rd March and in the UK just two days later on 5th March. Yet Spain is now on 5,138 compared to 773 in the UK. (Spain was on 3,647 two days ago).

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
    Just a general point (not really relevant in this case) but people need to be very careful about drawing conclusions from worldometer figures. In general they are just a collation of officially released figures. Comparability is dangerous because there is little to no attempt to reflect the fact that each country releases figures differently, and on the basis of different criteria. And there is some obviously nonsensical stuff in there concerning numbers “recovered” cases and “active” and/or “critical” cases, which largely isn’t being routinely reportedly.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    I see we have at least one end of the world doom-monger on the site in Tyson. Can we add any other names to the list?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932

    Good morning Pb-ers from me, too. Let us hope for, if not good news, a little more sanity. At least, it being Saturday and there's no sport, public transport should be less crowded.

    Anything like normal Saturday shopping will strain supermarkets' new social distancing rules that greatly reduce capacity.
This discussion has been closed.