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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Cyclefree said:

    This evening I confess to feeling really quite scared. I can do nothing to help my family and, if what I am hearing from those close to government is correct, will have to be in self-isolation for the majority of this year.

    To cap it all work on the home we were meant to be moving to in June has now ceased so in a few weeks when our rental comes to an end we will be homeless unless we can extend or find another long-term rental nearby.

    What state will we all be in when this is over?

    Sorry for the wobble. I shall be a bit more positive after a good night’s sleep I dare say.

    I am sorry to hear of your wobble. These are indeed the most wobble-inducing of times.

    If it helps, what I am hearing from those close to Government is significantly more upbeat.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 757
    It's going to be a heck of an argument over "what should our healthcare system be like" when every healthcare system on the planet fails.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Andrew said:

    MikeL said:

    Sunak needs to get his scheme up and running quickly so that the self-employed don't need to claim Universal Credit.

    Otherwise there will be confusion with self-employed getting an "80% payment" and claiming UC at the same time.


    Pretty sure I won't qualify for the self-employed setup. Ouch.
    Which is why comparison with the emerging American approach could be awkward
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060

    glw said:

    This level of grandiosity and self-orientation, at this moment, is quite astonishing,

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1242905328209080331

    Every day, his illness gets worse. I feel for Americans.
    That tweet alone justifies using the 25th ammendment. Many Americans will die as a direct result of his behaviour.
    One view of it:

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1242910430592368643
    As long as Trump voters get their news from Fox News, it wont matter
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,708
    alterego said:

    MikeL said:

    Sunak needs to get his scheme up and running quickly so that the self-employed don't need to claim Universal Credit.

    Otherwise there will be confusion with self-employed getting an "80% payment" and claiming UC at the same time.

    Not knowingly surely?
    Yes, agreed.

    Point was that 477,000 have already claimed UC in the last 9 days.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    Have been really busy so not much on, but wanted to express sympathy to Charles and best wishes to Foxy and others who have or may have caught the virus. Have we heard from Gideon at all since his alarming post a few days ago?
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    IanB2 said:


    Which is why comparison with the emerging American approach could be awkward

    My finances were kinda hoping for a straight airdrop or something UBI-ish, but tbh I can see why they would go for something based on tax returns.

  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    stodge said:

    alterego said:


    Tyson's never been any different - full of hate. Admittedly, it can't help.

    You're wrong. He's one of this site's oldest posters and there was a time when he was reasonable, reasoned and capable of joining in a cross-party debate.

    That was true of most of the posters on here in the early days - everything changed with the global financial crisis of 2008. As people got scared, the tone got more abrasive and it hasn't improved since in all honesty.

    The GFC was, and COVID-19 may be, a culturally defining event. A decade and a half of cheap food, cheap fuel, cheap money and endlessly rising asset values left people content but complacent.

    The collapse of Lehman and all that followed was a real shock. What we are living through now is another shock - it will either bring us closer or drive us further apart. At the moment, I'd say tips on each of two.

    I haven't been on here long enough to experience the "old" Tyson; my comment was based on my experience. I agree completely about Covid-19 being a culturally defining event; not so sure about 2008, though maybe in the financial world.
  • Have been really busy so not much on, but wanted to express sympathy to Charles and best wishes to Foxy and others who have or may have caught the virus. Have we heard from Gideon at all since his alarming post a few days ago?

    Yes. He seems to be on the mend
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,680
    CatMan said:

    glw said:

    This level of grandiosity and self-orientation, at this moment, is quite astonishing,

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1242905328209080331

    Every day, his illness gets worse. I feel for Americans.
    That tweet alone justifies using the 25th ammendment. Many Americans will die as a direct result of his behaviour.
    One view of it:

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1242910430592368643
    As long as Trump voters get their news from Fox News, it wont matter
    What's Fox News's general take on the matter? The impression I get from elsewhere is that the American Right is largely ignoring Trump and concentrating on a full-frontal assault on China.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Have been really busy so not much on, but wanted to express sympathy to Charles and best wishes to Foxy and others who have or may have caught the virus. Have we heard from Gideon at all since his alarming post a few days ago?

    I think he posted earlier that he was on the mend but that it was a very distressing experience being breathless like that
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898

    I am sorry to hear of your wobble. These are indeed the most wobble-inducing of times.

    If it helps, what I am hearing from those close to Government is significantly more upbeat.

    I suspect we are over the worst for now. We have a policy and we have some action - last week, we didn't really have either.

    As to whether this will be sufficient and whether it could or should have been enacted earlier - these will be questions (and appropriate questions) for another day.

    I'm concerned a premature lifting of restrictions will cause a new surge in cases so this will need to be carefully managed. Keeping us all at home to keep us clear of the virus may well work in the short term but if the virus is still out there all we will do is buy ourselves time and not much of that.

    We can't go on living or existing like this - we will either need to see the virus extinguished or come up with a vaccine to provide immunity - otherwise, we will be living in fear of a new outbreak next autumn and winter and the consequential economic and social dislocation.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    Cyclefree said:

    This evening I confess to feeling really quite scared. I can do nothing to help my family and, if what I am hearing from those close to government is correct, will have to be in self-isolation for the majority of this year.

    To cap it all work on the home we were meant to be moving to in June has now ceased so in a few weeks when our rental comes to an end we will be homeless unless we can extend or find another long-term rental nearby.

    What state will we all be in when this is over?

    Sorry for the wobble. I shall be a bit more positive after a good night’s sleep I dare say.

    I am sorry to hear of your wobble. These are indeed the most wobble-inducing of times.

    If it helps, what I am hearing from those close to Government is significantly more upbeat.
    I simply cannot see how you can keep this level of lockdown going for more than six weeks, and even at that, week five onwards would be tough. At some point we will have to emerge from lockdown, or our food supply network will collapse, which will cause thousands of deaths on its own. It really is that simple, and that stark. Epidemiologists wittering on about this going on for two years are not thinking and not helping.

    At the moment I would predict a slackening from early to mid-May. The real issue will then probably be if there is no effective treatment come the autumn.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    edited March 2020
    alterego said:

    MikeL said:

    Sunak needs to get his scheme up and running quickly so that the self-employed don't need to claim Universal Credit.

    Otherwise there will be confusion with self-employed getting an "80% payment" and claiming UC at the same time.

    Not knowingly surely?
    Perfectly valid for self-employed to claim UC - many do, as do many employed people. Any income is offset against your UC award.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100

    CatMan said:

    glw said:

    This level of grandiosity and self-orientation, at this moment, is quite astonishing,

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1242905328209080331

    Every day, his illness gets worse. I feel for Americans.
    That tweet alone justifies using the 25th ammendment. Many Americans will die as a direct result of his behaviour.
    One view of it:

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1242910430592368643
    As long as Trump voters get their news from Fox News, it wont matter
    What's Fox News's general take on the matter? The impression I get from elsewhere is that the American Right is largely ignoring Trump and concentrating on a full-frontal assault on China.
    Isn't that part of Trump's play?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622
    stodge said:

    alterego said:


    Tyson's never been any different - full of hate. Admittedly, it can't help.

    You're wrong. He's one of this site's oldest posters and there was a time when he was reasonable, reasoned and capable of joining in a cross-party debate.

    That was true of most of the posters on here in the early days - everything changed with the global financial crisis of 2008. As people got scared, the tone got more abrasive and it hasn't improved since in all honesty.

    The GFC was, and COVID-19 may be, a culturally defining event. A decade and a half of cheap food, cheap fuel, cheap money and endlessly rising asset values left people content but complacent.

    The collapse of Lehman and all that followed was a real shock. What we are living through now is another shock - it will either bring us closer or drive us further apart. At the moment, I'd say tips on each of two.

    Tyson often still is reasonable, reasoned and capable of joining in a cross-party debate.

    As are many, many PBers but lots of us lose it at times - and its better if people do it here than in 'real life'.

    I wonder if Tyson is feeling guilty at all - he's clearly a rich bloke and that can prompt feelings of guilt in times of stress.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    This level of grandiosity and self-orientation, at this moment, is quite astonishing,

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1242905328209080331

    Every day, his illness gets worse. I feel for Americans.
    I don't, They elected him, they are giving him a 55% approval rating for handling the Corona crisis, they are probably going to reelect him in November. If they really are that thick they have no one to blame but themselves.
  • My friend in Beijing tells me cases have started to slowly rise again, despite the lock down only being partially removed and restrictions are coming back.

    Bars back to only allowing one person per table and no standing again.

  • ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This evening I confess to feeling really quite scared. I can do nothing to help my family and, if what I am hearing from those close to government is correct, will have to be in self-isolation for the majority of this year.

    To cap it all work on the home we were meant to be moving to in June has now ceased so in a few weeks when our rental comes to an end we will be homeless unless we can extend or find another long-term rental nearby.

    What state will we all be in when this is over?

    Sorry for the wobble. I shall be a bit more positive after a good night’s sleep I dare say.

    I am sorry to hear of your wobble. These are indeed the most wobble-inducing of times.

    If it helps, what I am hearing from those close to Government is significantly more upbeat.
    I simply cannot see how you can keep this level of lockdown going for more than six weeks, and even at that, week five onwards would be tough. At some point we will have to emerge from lockdown, or our food supply network will collapse, which will cause thousands of deaths on its own. It really is that simple, and that stark. Epidemiologists wittering on about this going on for two years are not thinking and not helping.

    At the moment I would predict a slackening from early to mid-May. The real issue will then probably be if there is no effective treatment come the autumn.
    But we have 12 weeks isolation and there are millions of others in the at risk group

    I do not see any easing before mid summer, sadly
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    stodge said:

    I am sorry to hear of your wobble. These are indeed the most wobble-inducing of times.

    If it helps, what I am hearing from those close to Government is significantly more upbeat.

    I suspect we are over the worst for now. We have a policy and we have some action - last week, we didn't really have either.

    As to whether this will be sufficient and whether it could or should have been enacted earlier - these will be questions (and appropriate questions) for another day.

    I'm concerned a premature lifting of restrictions will cause a new surge in cases so this will need to be carefully managed. Keeping us all at home to keep us clear of the virus may well work in the short term but if the virus is still out there all we will do is buy ourselves time and not much of that.

    We can't go on living or existing like this - we will either need to see the virus extinguished or come up with a vaccine to provide immunity - otherwise, we will be living in fear of a new outbreak next autumn and winter and the consequential economic and social dislocation.

    The world has to live with the hand that USA and/ or China deals.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    My friend in Beijing tells me cases have started to slowly rise again, despite the lock down only being partially removed and restrictions are coming back.

    Bars back to only allowing one person per table and no standing again.

    This is not good news... How can we deal with this? Lockdown, release, lockdown, release for years?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    My friend in Beijing tells me cases have started to slowly rise again, despite the lock down only being partially removed and restrictions are coming back.

    Bars back to only allowing one person per table and no standing again.

    Yes, they're inching back up again.

    The question is "what measures short of a total lockdown limit the growth?"

    Because this isn't about having zero cases. It's about having a growth rate that is slow enough to be manageable, and having only occasional local lockdowns, rather than a long national one.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I considering exiting the US Election market.

    Despite being an optimist when it comes to the overall deadliness of the Coronaviurs and a firm believer that Trump is Toast, November is tee-ing up for anarchy in the USA. The sheer confusion this will all cause and the will-they/won't-they dance states are doing about allowing people to do mail in ballots means that it is primed for some aggressive voter suppression by the GOP and wacky turnout figures.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    alterego said:


    I haven't been on here long enough to experience the "old" Tyson; my comment was based on my experience. I agree completely about Covid-19 being a culturally defining event; not so sure about 2008, though maybe in the financial world.

    I think it went deeper than that - a lot of certainties were undone and anxiety returned in a society which had enjoyed an incredibly prosperous 15 years most of which wasn't down to UK Government policy but to cheap raw materials.

    People feared (wrongly for the most part) for their jobs and homes while those who survived on their savings saw those diminished by the collapse in interest rates.

    Fear drove a new abrasiveness in political discourse and I saw that on here. Fear will do that. This "fear" is more personal and difficult and dangerous - you fear for your family and even for yourself. The nature of the beast sets us apart from each other and confines us.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    edited March 2020

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This evening I confess to feeling really quite scared. I can do nothing to help my family and, if what I am hearing from those close to government is correct, will have to be in self-isolation for the majority of this year.

    To cap it all work on the home we were meant to be moving to in June has now ceased so in a few weeks when our rental comes to an end we will be homeless unless we can extend or find another long-term rental nearby.

    What state will we all be in when this is over?

    Sorry for the wobble. I shall be a bit more positive after a good night’s sleep I dare say.

    I am sorry to hear of your wobble. These are indeed the most wobble-inducing of times.

    If it helps, what I am hearing from those close to Government is significantly more upbeat.
    I simply cannot see how you can keep this level of lockdown going for more than six weeks, and even at that, week five onwards would be tough. At some point we will have to emerge from lockdown, or our food supply network will collapse, which will cause thousands of deaths on its own. It really is that simple, and that stark. Epidemiologists wittering on about this going on for two years are not thinking and not helping.

    At the moment I would predict a slackening from early to mid-May. The real issue will then probably be if there is no effective treatment come the autumn.
    But we have 12 weeks isolation and there are millions of others in the at risk group

    I do not see any easing before mid summer, sadly
    If we have twelve weeks‘ isolation for the full population, people will starve. That is going to be the tradeoff.

    Ultimately, the government may well be forced to take the risk of a spike in coronavirus against the certainty of starvation and/or civil unrest.
  • My friend in Beijing tells me cases have started to slowly rise again, despite the lock down only being partially removed and restrictions are coming back.

    Bars back to only allowing one person per table and no standing again.

    This is not good news... How can we deal with this? Lockdown, release, lockdown, release for years?
    Vaccine eventually but when ?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This evening I confess to feeling really quite scared. I can do nothing to help my family and, if what I am hearing from those close to government is correct, will have to be in self-isolation for the majority of this year.

    To cap it all work on the home we were meant to be moving to in June has now ceased so in a few weeks when our rental comes to an end we will be homeless unless we can extend or find another long-term rental nearby.

    What state will we all be in when this is over?

    Sorry for the wobble. I shall be a bit more positive after a good night’s sleep I dare say.

    I am sorry to hear of your wobble. These are indeed the most wobble-inducing of times.

    If it helps, what I am hearing from those close to Government is significantly more upbeat.
    I simply cannot see how you can keep this level of lockdown going for more than six weeks, and even at that, week five onwards would be tough. At some point we will have to emerge from lockdown, or our food supply network will collapse, which will cause thousands of deaths on its own. It really is that simple, and that stark. Epidemiologists wittering on about this going on for two years are not thinking and not helping.

    At the moment I would predict a slackening from early to mid-May. The real issue will then probably be if there is no effective treatment come the autumn.
    But we have 12 weeks isolation and there are millions of others in the at risk group

    I do not see any easing before mid summer, sadly
    The lockdowns in Italy are less than three weeks old. We don’t know how people are going to react. They are sanguine now - but in 12 weeks?
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100

    alterego said:

    MikeL said:

    Sunak needs to get his scheme up and running quickly so that the self-employed don't need to claim Universal Credit.

    Otherwise there will be confusion with self-employed getting an "80% payment" and claiming UC at the same time.

    Not knowingly surely?
    Perfectly valid for self-employed to claim UC - many do, as do many employed people. Any income is offset against your UC award.
    I don't have a problem with valid and I'm sure the vast majority of claims are/ will be.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Mail saying todays scores on the doors is 1,452 new positive cases, so about the same number of new cases as yesterday (albeit the highest number).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    My friend in Beijing tells me cases have started to slowly rise again, despite the lock down only being partially removed and restrictions are coming back.

    Bars back to only allowing one person per table and no standing again.

    This is not good news... How can we deal with this? Lockdown, release, lockdown, release for years?
    Vaccine eventually but when ?
    Foxy will doubtless correct me if I am wrong, but I believe there has never been a vaccine for the coronavirus family.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Global Deaths still well ahead of this back of the fag packet calculation posted on Twitter a while ago, I had thought that by mid April the new death rate would be beating this chart but America looks like it is going to blow this apart.


  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited March 2020
    OllyT said:

    This level of grandiosity and self-orientation, at this moment, is quite astonishing,

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1242905328209080331

    Every day, his illness gets worse. I feel for Americans.
    I don't, They elected him, they are giving him a 55% approval rating for handling the Corona crisis, they are probably going to reelect him in November. If they really are that thick they have no one to blame but themselves.
    Outside New York city, Massachussetts, California and DC Trump is still pretty popular.

    Left liberals are making the same mistake thinking that the fact most Londoners hated Boris and Brexit meant the rest of the country did too
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935

    Mail saying todays scores on the doors is 1,452 new positive cases, so about the same number of new cases as yesterday (albeit the highest number).

    I suppose comparisons with Italy are no longer forthcoming? :p
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    rcs1000 said:

    My friend in Beijing tells me cases have started to slowly rise again, despite the lock down only being partially removed and restrictions are coming back.

    Bars back to only allowing one person per table and no standing again.

    Yes, they're inching back up again.

    The question is "what measures short of a total lockdown limit the growth?"

    Because this isn't about having zero cases. It's about having a growth rate that is slow enough to be manageable, and having only occasional local lockdowns, rather than a long national one.
    I agree. The world was hardly disease free prior to Covid-19.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited March 2020
    Italy was on 827 at this point, to our 465.

    Will Boris get the credit for this? He was being teed up to get the blame by the haters had we been keeping up with or surpassing the Italians.


  • Alistair said:

    I considering exiting the US Election market.

    Despite being an optimist when it comes to the overall deadliness of the Coronaviurs and a firm believer that Trump is Toast, November is tee-ing up for anarchy in the USA. The sheer confusion this will all cause and the will-they/won't-they dance states are doing about allowing people to do mail in ballots means that it is primed for some aggressive voter suppression by the GOP and wacky turnout figures.

    I've been thinking along those lines as well.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Mail saying todays scores on the doors is 1,452 new positive cases, so about the same number of new cases as yesterday (albeit the highest number).

    The Prof said there had been 97,000 tests earlier - so a 22% or so rise.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    RobD said:

    Mail saying todays scores on the doors is 1,452 new positive cases, so about the same number of new cases as yesterday (albeit the highest number).

    I suppose comparisons with Italy are no longer forthcoming? :p
    Does that mean we get no more awesome mashups of Italian mayors losing their shit and threatening people with flamethrowers?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    This level of grandiosity and self-orientation, at this moment, is quite astonishing,

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1242905328209080331

    Every day, his illness gets worse. I feel for Americans.
    I don't, They elected him, they are giving him a 55% approval rating for handling the Corona crisis, they are probably going to reelect him in November. If they really are that thick they have no one to blame but themselves.
    Outside New York city, Massachussetts, California and DC Trump is still pretty popular.

    Left liberals are making the same mistake thinking that the fact most Londoners hated Boris and Brexit meant the rest of the country did too
    https://morningconsult.com/tracking-trump-2/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    DougSeal said:

    Mail saying todays scores on the doors is 1,452 new positive cases, so about the same number of new cases as yesterday (albeit the highest number).

    The Prof said there had been 97,000 tests earlier - so a 22% or so rise.
    All about the same as yesterday.

    Every "good day" buys us time.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,838
    Cyclefree said:

    This evening I confess to feeling really quite scared. I can do nothing to help my family and, if what I am hearing from those close to government is correct, will have to be in self-isolation for the majority of this year.

    To cap it all work on the home we were meant to be moving to in June has now ceased so in a few weeks when our rental comes to an end we will be homeless unless we can extend or find another long-term rental nearby.

    What state will we all be in when this is over?

    Sorry for the wobble. I shall be a bit more positive after a good night’s sleep I dare say.

    Sorry to hear that, realistically the vast majority of landlords would be delighted to find the current tenant wants to stay longer in the current climate, so discussing it with them and explaining your situation is very likely to result in an amicable stay as long as you need scenario. But if that doesnt work and the rental is an AST it can essentially only be ended by the tenant or a court order, so if you want to stay a bit beyond the end of the tenancy date, there is little the landlord can do to prevent it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    My friend in Beijing tells me cases have started to slowly rise again, despite the lock down only being partially removed and restrictions are coming back.

    Bars back to only allowing one person per table and no standing again.

    This is not good news... How can we deal with this? Lockdown, release, lockdown, release for years?
    Until a vaccine is developed or we develop herd immunity maybe
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    ydoethur said:


    I simply cannot see how you can keep this level of lockdown going for more than six weeks, and even at that, week five onwards would be tough. At some point we will have to emerge from lockdown, or our food supply network will collapse, which will cause thousands of deaths on its own. It really is that simple, and that stark. Epidemiologists wittering on about this going on for two years are not thinking and not helping.

    At the moment I would predict a slackening from early to mid-May. The real issue will then probably be if there is no effective treatment come the autumn.

    It's not often I agree with you but these are strange times and I agree with you.

    I sense "victory" being touted in terms of reductions in cases and deaths and increase in tests and at some point (my money's on May 4th) Boris will declare Britain "open for business" and we'll all stream out to the shops or to the racecourse or wherever.

    The mobilisation of prevention and care all sounds very impressive but the fundamental task is getting a vaccine for this virus. If we don't we may well face a second wave next winter.

  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    nichomar said:

    tyson said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This evening I confess to feeling really quite scared. I can do nothing to help my family and, if what I am hearing from those close to government is correct, will have to be in self-isolation for the majority of this year.

    To cap it all work on the home we were meant to be moving to in June has now ceased so in a few weeks when our rental comes to an end we will be homeless unless we can extend or find another long-term rental nearby.

    What state will we all be in when this is over?

    Sorry for the wobble. I shall be a bit more positive after a good night’s sleep I dare say.

    My wobbles are first thing in the morning.....I wake up from a lovely sleep to this world....

    And my real anger is against those embarrassing, sycophantic posters here who cheerlead Boris and co to the rafters whilst my family are working in Covid wards unprotected.....

    And you know who you are....


    Boris, Hancock, Rishi, Sturgeon, Drakeford, Foster, Khan plus the medical and scientific advisors deserve the support of the whole nation.

    They are across parties and non

    You are just reflecting your own poltical bias and I do know who I am

    And do not make unwarranted accusations about how deeply I care for everyone in the NHS
    I think the poor guy is terribly stressed, if he is letting off steam here and it helps fair enough, like everybody at the moment understanding and calm is the best response.
    I do agree but we are all under stress in different ways

    And I will defend myself to personal attacks
    I made a comment about members of my family who are working on Covid wards unprotected which you completely dismissed because you are so sycophantic to all things Tory.....there are 30 doctors who have died in 2 weeks in Italy...and countless health staff sick....

    My sister has told me the NHS frontline staff are clubbing together with makeshift protection gear on a day to day basis....


  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    My friend in Beijing tells me cases have started to slowly rise again, despite the lock down only being partially removed and restrictions are coming back.

    Bars back to only allowing one person per table and no standing again.

    This is not good news... How can we deal with this? Lockdown, release, lockdown, release for years?
    Closed borders, no incoming flights...
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    HYUFD said:


    Outside New York city, Massachussetts, California and DC Trump is still pretty popular.

    Left liberals are making the same mistake thinking that the fact most Londoners hated Boris and Brexit meant the rest of the country did too

    Why do you assume everyone who is liberal is on the Left?
  • HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    This level of grandiosity and self-orientation, at this moment, is quite astonishing,

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1242905328209080331

    Every day, his illness gets worse. I feel for Americans.
    I don't, They elected him, they are giving him a 55% approval rating for handling the Corona crisis, they are probably going to reelect him in November. If they really are that thick they have no one to blame but themselves.
    Outside New York city, Massachussetts, California and DC Trump is still pretty popular.

    Left liberals are making the same mistake thinking that the fact most Londoners hated Boris and Brexit meant the rest of the country did too
    You seem to be a lone voice for Trump on here unless I am mistaken

    Surely you can see how destructive and unsuitable for any office he is, far less the POTUS
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    43 UK deaths yesterday sounds low. According to worldometer update.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117

    tyson said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This evening I confess to feeling really quite scared. I can do nothing to help my family and, if what I am hearing from those close to government is correct, will have to be in self-isolation for the majority of this year.

    To cap it all work on the home we were meant to be moving to in June has now ceased so in a few weeks when our rental comes to an end we will be homeless unless we can extend or find another long-term rental nearby.

    What state will we all be in when this is over?

    Sorry for the wobble. I shall be a bit more positive after a good night’s sleep I dare say.

    My wobbles are first thing in the morning.....I wake up from a lovely sleep to this world....

    And my real anger is against those embarrassing, sycophantic posters here who cheerlead Boris and co to the rafters whilst my family are working in Covid wards unprotected.....

    And you know who you are....


    Boris, Hancock, Rishi, Sturgeon, Drakeford, Foster, Khan plus the medical and scientific advisors deserve the support of the whole nation.

    They are across parties and non

    You are just reflecting your own poltical bias and I do know who I am

    And do not make unwarranted accusations about how deeply I care for everyone in the NHS
    What the fuck are you talking about?? How can you say I am reflecting a political bias? Honestly words really fail me...

    I have replied and posted to you that members of my family are working in wards without protection...and your lack of empathy, compassion or understanding on this issue is bewildering....

    One measured reply from you would have put this matter to bed...but you continue with your nonsense
  • We might have to add Next to the list of bad companies we need to avoid.

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1242925962356051968
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    Mail saying todays scores on the doors is 1,452 new positive cases, so about the same number of new cases as yesterday (albeit the highest number).

    I suppose comparisons with Italy are no longer forthcoming? :p
    Does that mean we get no more awesome mashups of Italian mayors losing their shit and threatening people with flamethrowers?
    I liked the flamethrower guy! I don't think he was joking.

  • tyson said:

    nichomar said:

    tyson said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This evening I confess to feeling really quite scared. I can do nothing to help my family and, if what I am hearing from those close to government is correct, will have to be in self-isolation for the majority of this year.

    To cap it all work on the home we were meant to be moving to in June has now ceased so in a few weeks when our rental comes to an end we will be homeless unless we can extend or find another long-term rental nearby.

    What state will we all be in when this is over?

    Sorry for the wobble. I shall be a bit more positive after a good night’s sleep I dare say.

    My wobbles are first thing in the morning.....I wake up from a lovely sleep to this world....

    And my real anger is against those embarrassing, sycophantic posters here who cheerlead Boris and co to the rafters whilst my family are working in Covid wards unprotected.....

    And you know who you are....


    Boris, Hancock, Rishi, Sturgeon, Drakeford, Foster, Khan plus the medical and scientific advisors deserve the support of the whole nation.

    They are across parties and non

    You are just reflecting your own poltical bias and I do know who I am

    And do not make unwarranted accusations about how deeply I care for everyone in the NHS
    I think the poor guy is terribly stressed, if he is letting off steam here and it helps fair enough, like everybody at the moment understanding and calm is the best response.
    I do agree but we are all under stress in different ways

    And I will defend myself to personal attacks
    I made a comment about members of my family who are working on Covid wards unprotected which you completely dismissed because you are so sycophantic to all things Tory.....there are 30 doctors who have died in 2 weeks in Italy...and countless health staff sick....

    My sister has told me the NHS frontline staff are clubbing together with makeshift protection gear on a day to day basis....


    Of course I did not dismiss it

    It is a very real problem which every country across the globe is experiencing

    But it is the angry personal abuse that is uncalled for
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622
    Re social distancing when walking, at the shops etc.

    Can I suggest when out with another person that you walk in line ahead rather than line abreast where necessary.

    Its annoying when two shopping trolleys sweep down a supermarket aisle like a greek phalanx.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    ydoethur said:

    RobD said:

    Mail saying todays scores on the doors is 1,452 new positive cases, so about the same number of new cases as yesterday (albeit the highest number).

    I suppose comparisons with Italy are no longer forthcoming? :p
    Does that mean we get no more awesome mashups of Italian mayors losing their shit and threatening people with flamethrowers?
    Is it wrong of me to really enjoy those?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,680
    edited March 2020
    isam said:

    Italy was on 827 at this point, to our 465.

    Will Boris get the credit for this? He was being teed up to get the blame by the haters had we been keeping up with or surpassing the Italians.


    I'm no Boris cheerleader and it's still early days, but people from afar must be looking on with furrowed brows - the reality isn't coinciding with the Boris Death reputation he (supposedly) has in every other country on earth.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    stodge said:

    alterego said:


    I haven't been on here long enough to experience the "old" Tyson; my comment was based on my experience. I agree completely about Covid-19 being a culturally defining event; not so sure about 2008, though maybe in the financial world.

    I think it went deeper than that - a lot of certainties were undone and anxiety returned in a society which had enjoyed an incredibly prosperous 15 years most of which wasn't down to UK Government policy but to cheap raw materials.

    People feared (wrongly for the most part) for their jobs and homes while those who survived on their savings saw those diminished by the collapse in interest rates.

    Fear drove a new abrasiveness in political discourse and I saw that on here. Fear will do that. This "fear" is more personal and difficult and dangerous - you fear for your family and even for yourself. The nature of the beast sets us apart from each other and confines us.
    I worried about my finances post 2008 crash (concerns for family primarily) but markets recovered in an orderly fashion and, until now, made handsome gains since but my worry now is health rather than wealth (neither I nor my family being as financially exposed now as we were then). I suspect that financial recovery will be much shallower this time.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    Finnish government blocades capital
    Tough new restrictions banning travel between the Finnish capital and the rest of the country will be introduced from Friday to curb the spread of coronavirus, the country's prime minister said Wednesday.

    "Movement into and out of the capital region, Uusimaa, will be forbidden," Finland's prime minister Sanna Marin told a press conference. "Everybody will however have the right to return home or to their municipality of residence."

    She said exceptions will be made for essential travel, including cases such as the death of a relative or under child visitation arrangements.

    Goods will also continue to flow under the restrictions which will last for three weeks.

    1.7 million people live in the province of Uusimaa, approximately a third of Finland's population. Ministers stressed that over 500 of the country's 880 confirmed coronavirus cases in Finland, and two of the three recorded deaths, have been in the Uusimaa region.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,708
    edited March 2020
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    This level of grandiosity and self-orientation, at this moment, is quite astonishing,

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1242905328209080331

    Every day, his illness gets worse. I feel for Americans.
    I don't, They elected him, they are giving him a 55% approval rating for handling the Corona crisis, they are probably going to reelect him in November. If they really are that thick they have no one to blame but themselves.
    Outside New York city, Massachussetts, California and DC Trump is still pretty popular.

    Left liberals are making the same mistake thinking that the fact most Londoners hated Boris and Brexit meant the rest of the country did too
    The majority of people at the last election didn't vote Conservative. Unfortunately (if you don't like Boris), we have FPTP.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    edited March 2020

    Cyclefree said:

    This evening I confess to feeling really quite scared. I can do nothing to help my family and, if what I am hearing from those close to government is correct, will have to be in self-isolation for the majority of this year.

    To cap it all work on the home we were meant to be moving to in June has now ceased so in a few weeks when our rental comes to an end we will be homeless unless we can extend or find another long-term rental nearby.

    What state will we all be in when this is over?

    Sorry for the wobble. I shall be a bit more positive after a good night’s sleep I dare say.

    Sorry to hear that, realistically the vast majority of landlords would be delighted to find the current tenant wants to stay longer in the current climate, so discussing it with them and explaining your situation is very likely to result in an amicable stay as long as you need scenario. But if that doesnt work and the rental is an AST it can essentially only be ended by the tenant or a court order, so if you want to stay a bit beyond the end of the tenancy date, there is little the landlord can do to prevent it.
    I texted my tenant and offered her a rent holiday at an early stage because I like to think of myself as a nice person and it seemed the right thing to do.

    But later on, thinking it over, it seemed to me the sensible thing to do as well from a business point of view. I can’t force her to pay the rent right now, and I would a long sight sooner have somebody I know in the house keeping it in order and looked after than it standing empty. For it to be well cared for, she needs to be in a benevolent mood with me as well and right now she’s deeply grateful to know I will stand behind her if she needs it.

    Whether the majority of private landlords will have the sense to see it the way @TSE and I have is another question, of course. But then, you do get some shocking tenants as well.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    I don't know anybody else, but its a weird feeling.

    We have all seen China, Italy, Spain, France...we know its coming, we know it will be bad, we hope Neil Ferguson is right and the NHS just manages to keep going and that we get enough scrapheap challenge ventilators in place, but is this weird "quiet" time both where nearly everybody is now inside and that <100 people dying of respiratory diseases is per day is really normal life in the UK.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    tyson said:

    nichomar said:

    tyson said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This evening I confess to feeling really quite scared. I can do nothing to help my family and, if what I am hearing from those close to government is correct, will have to be in self-isolation for the majority of this year.

    To cap it all work on the home we were meant to be moving to in June has now ceased so in a few weeks when our rental comes to an end we will be homeless unless we can extend or find another long-term rental nearby.

    What state will we all be in when this is over?

    Sorry for the wobble. I shall be a bit more positive after a good night’s sleep I dare say.

    My wobbles are first thing in the morning.....I wake up from a lovely sleep to this world....

    And my real anger is against those embarrassing, sycophantic posters here who cheerlead Boris and co to the rafters whilst my family are working in Covid wards unprotected.....

    And you know who you are....


    Boris, Hancock, Rishi, Sturgeon, Drakeford, Foster, Khan plus the medical and scientific advisors deserve the support of the whole nation.

    They are across parties and non

    You are just reflecting your own poltical bias and I do know who I am

    And do not make unwarranted accusations about how deeply I care for everyone in the NHS
    I think the poor guy is terribly stressed, if he is letting off steam here and it helps fair enough, like everybody at the moment understanding and calm is the best response.
    I do agree but we are all under stress in different ways

    And I will defend myself to personal attacks
    I made a comment about members of my family who are working on Covid wards unprotected which you completely dismissed because you are so sycophantic to all things Tory.....there are 30 doctors who have died in 2 weeks in Italy...and countless health staff sick....

    My sister has told me the NHS frontline staff are clubbing together with makeshift protection gear on a day to day basis....


    Its crap Tyson, of course it is.

    There is PPE equipment, Foxy says that and I know from my own knowledge too.

    What there is not enough of is the more extensive PPE equipment

    We also know this is the case across the world, you must get this as you reference the situation in Italy.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,385
    isam said:

    Italy was on 827 at this point, to our 465.

    Will Boris get the credit for this? He was being teed up to get the blame by the haters had we been keeping up with or surpassing the Italians.


    How peculiar that you are viewing this crisis as an electoral opportunity for Boris Johnson.

    I am largely complimentary of how the government have dealt with this. My only concerns were firstly I thought the lockdown should have been last Friday, and secondly the relaxing to allow certain retail premises to reopen, along with construction being largely unimpeded by closure are in my view errors.

    So as it stands a 7 or 8 out of ten. And generally speaking I dislike Mr Johnson.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    I don't know anybody else, but its a weird feeling.

    We have all seen China, Italy, Spain, France...we know its coming, we know it will be bad, we hope Neil Ferguson is right and the NHS just manages to keep going and that we get enough scrapheap challenge ventilators in place, but is this weird "quiet" time both where nearly everybody is now inside and <100 people dying of respiratory diseases is quite normal day in the life of the UK.</p>

    Must have been a similar feeling across the country 80 years ago.
  • isam said:

    Italy was on 827 at this point, to our 465.

    Will Boris get the credit for this? He was being teed up to get the blame by the haters had we been keeping up with or surpassing the Italians.


    I'm no Boris cheerleader and it's still early days, but people from afar must be looking on with furrowed brows - the reality isn't coinciding with the Boris Death reputation he (supposedly) has in every other country on earth.
    The main focus on attacks seem to come from a small number of officials in some EU countries who do not like brexit, and others who cannot comprehend brexit
  • Cyclefree said:

    This evening I confess to feeling really quite scared. I can do nothing to help my family and, if what I am hearing from those close to government is correct, will have to be in self-isolation for the majority of this year.

    To cap it all work on the home we were meant to be moving to in June has now ceased so in a few weeks when our rental comes to an end we will be homeless unless we can extend or find another long-term rental nearby.

    What state will we all be in when this is over?

    Sorry for the wobble. I shall be a bit more positive after a good night’s sleep I dare say.

    We're all allowed a wobble in this situation Cyclefree. You're a pillar of reasonableness so regularly you've more than earnt it.
    CycleFree - Assuming you are in England, you probably have a AST (Assured Shorthold Tenancy) for a fixed period, usually 6 months. At the end of the fixed period you automatically roll on to a rolling tenancy where the landlord can only evict you via a no fault S21 notice, which gives you at least 2 months notice.

    (I'm not a legally trained, but have been both a landlord and tenant and do know the basics well enough) so please don't worry.

    And as others have said, which landlord wants to find a new tenant in the current circumstances.

    (I've booted up the laptop just to post this as I usually lurk via my phone or ipad and can't log in there)
  • I don't know anybody else, but its a weird feeling.

    We have all seen China, Italy, Spain, France...we know its coming, we know it will be bad, we hope Neil Ferguson is right and the NHS just manages to keep going and that we get enough scrapheap challenge ventilators in place, but is this weird "quiet" time both where nearly everybody is now inside and that <100 people dying of respiratory diseases is per day is really normal life in the UK.</p>

    It's weird, especially when you factor in most of are likely to get Covid-19 in one shape or another.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This evening I confess to feeling really quite scared. I can do nothing to help my family and, if what I am hearing from those close to government is correct, will have to be in self-isolation for the majority of this year.

    To cap it all work on the home we were meant to be moving to in June has now ceased so in a few weeks when our rental comes to an end we will be homeless unless we can extend or find another long-term rental nearby.

    What state will we all be in when this is over?

    Sorry for the wobble. I shall be a bit more positive after a good night’s sleep I dare say.

    I am sorry to hear of your wobble. These are indeed the most wobble-inducing of times.

    If it helps, what I am hearing from those close to Government is significantly more upbeat.
    I simply cannot see how you can keep this level of lockdown going for more than six weeks, and even at that, week five onwards would be tough. At some point we will have to emerge from lockdown, or our food supply network will collapse, which will cause thousands of deaths on its own. It really is that simple, and that stark. Epidemiologists wittering on about this going on for two years are not thinking and not helping.

    At the moment I would predict a slackening from early to mid-May. The real issue will then probably be if there is no effective treatment come the autumn.
    But we have 12 weeks isolation and there are millions of others in the at risk group

    I do not see any easing before mid summer, sadly
    The lockdowns in Italy are less than three weeks old. We don’t know how people are going to react. They are sanguine now - but in 12 weeks?
    The evidence from China is that lockdowns take four to six weeks to reduce infections to very low (say sub 25/day) level.

    It's not cleae why you would extend it (fully) beyond that point.

    Instead you slowly reduce the lockdown, while continuing to test as many people as possible. In this way you hope to slow the virus down. The trick is to find a a regime that allows people to live 90% of their daily lives, while it grows at a pace of (say) doubling every two weeks.

    If you need to do another lockdown later, at least it can be scheduled in advance so as to minimise economic impact.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Finnish government blocades capital
    Tough new restrictions banning travel between the Finnish capital and the rest of the country will be introduced from Friday to curb the spread of coronavirus, the country's prime minister said Wednesday.

    I think there may be a problem....

  • sladeslade Posts: 2,041
    Apparently Dr Fauci in the USA has invented a new device to save thousands of lives. It is to place gaffer tape across Trump's mouth.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,373
    slade said:

    Apparently Dr Fauci in the USA has invented a new device to save thousands of lives. It is to place gaffer tape across Trump's mouth.

    I have an upgrade that involves a hydraulic nail gun
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    slade said:

    Apparently Dr Fauci in the USA has invented a new device to save thousands of lives. It is to place gaffer tape across Trump's mouth.

    Can we handcuff him to a ring in an oubliette as well? Somewhere with no functional nuclear weapons - say, Russia?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,709
    slade said:

    Apparently Dr Fauci in the USA has invented a new device to save thousands of lives. It is to place gaffer tape across Trump's mouth.

    So face masks do work.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    isam said:

    Italy was on 827 at this point, to our 465.

    Will Boris get the credit for this? He was being teed up to get the blame by the haters had we been keeping up with or surpassing the Italians.


    So we're now on March 9, Italy timeline. We've gained two days.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    This level of grandiosity and self-orientation, at this moment, is quite astonishing,

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1242905328209080331

    Every day, his illness gets worse. I feel for Americans.
    I don't, They elected him, they are giving him a 55% approval rating for handling the Corona crisis, they are probably going to reelect him in November. If they really are that thick they have no one to blame but themselves.
    Outside New York city, Massachussetts, California and DC Trump is still pretty popular.

    Left liberals are making the same mistake thinking that the fact most Londoners hated Boris and Brexit meant the rest of the country did too
    I'm not sure he's that popular.

    In Nevada, for example, he has -10 net favourability.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    I see the earlier message was misunderstood.

    https://twitter.com/PHE_uk/status/1242921036577771520?s=20
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,838

    isam said:

    Italy was on 827 at this point, to our 465.

    Will Boris get the credit for this? He was being teed up to get the blame by the haters had we been keeping up with or surpassing the Italians.


    I'm no Boris cheerleader and it's still early days, but people from afar must be looking on with furrowed brows - the reality isn't coinciding with the Boris Death reputation he (supposedly) has in every other country on earth.
    The govt have done pretty well. No government will get this 100% right or anywhere near that, its just not possible with so many unknowns and such changes needed to society almost instantly.

    Country vs country comparison, especially from simplistic graphs, tells us very little with confidence anyway.

    As for our international reputation, we think we are more important than we are, very few worldwide are taking such notice and forming strong opinions on whether the UK govt should have introduced measures on Mar 22 or Mar 18. It is mostly UK journos and commentators making the comparison and assuming the UK is/was wrong, not so much foreign journos and commentators who have their own problems to analyse.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited March 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    This level of grandiosity and self-orientation, at this moment, is quite astonishing,

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1242905328209080331

    Every day, his illness gets worse. I feel for Americans.
    I don't, They elected him, they are giving him a 55% approval rating for handling the Corona crisis, they are probably going to reelect him in November. If they really are that thick they have no one to blame but themselves.
    Outside New York city, Massachussetts, California and DC Trump is still pretty popular.

    Left liberals are making the same mistake thinking that the fact most Londoners hated Boris and Brexit meant the rest of the country did too
    I'm not sure he's that popular.

    In Nevada, for example, he has -10 net favourability.
    Which is still higher than in California and New York city.
    Nationally some pollsters have Trump over 50% approval


    https://twitter.com/Politics_Polls/status/1242677198856822784?s=20
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,373

    Cyclefree said:

    This evening I confess to feeling really quite scared. I can do nothing to help my family and, if what I am hearing from those close to government is correct, will have to be in self-isolation for the majority of this year.

    To cap it all work on the home we were meant to be moving to in June has now ceased so in a few weeks when our rental comes to an end we will be homeless unless we can extend or find another long-term rental nearby.

    What state will we all be in when this is over?

    Sorry for the wobble. I shall be a bit more positive after a good night’s sleep I dare say.

    We're all allowed a wobble in this situation Cyclefree. You're a pillar of reasonableness so regularly you've more than earnt it.
    CycleFree - Assuming you are in England, you probably have a AST (Assured Shorthold Tenancy) for a fixed period, usually 6 months. At the end of the fixed period you automatically roll on to a rolling tenancy where the landlord can only evict you via a no fault S21 notice, which gives you at least 2 months notice.

    (I'm not a legally trained, but have been both a landlord and tenant and do know the basics well enough) so please don't worry.

    And as others have said, which landlord wants to find a new tenant in the current circumstances.

    (I've booted up the laptop just to post this as I usually lurk via my phone or ipad and can't log in there)
    Speak to the landlord first. Don't go in assuming anything. For all you know the first thing he/she will want to discuss is an extension.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    isam said:

    Italy was on 827 at this point, to our 465.

    Will Boris get the credit for this? He was being teed up to get the blame by the haters had we been keeping up with or surpassing the Italians.


    How peculiar that you are viewing this crisis as an electoral opportunity for Boris Johnson.

    I am largely complimentary of how the government have dealt with this. My only concerns were firstly I thought the lockdown should have been last Friday, and secondly the relaxing to allow certain retail premises to reopen, along with construction being largely unimpeded by closure are in my view errors.

    So as it stands a 7 or 8 out of ten. And generally speaking I dislike Mr Johnson.
    To be honest given the UK had a 7-10 day breathing space it would be shocking if they were not beating the curve let’s hope they can stay in front over the coming days.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    edited March 2020

    We might have to add Next to the list of bad companies we need to avoid.

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1242925962356051968

    Another company to add to the Covid-19 hall of shame?

    Edit: Sorry, missed TSE's intro to the same effect, doh!
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    isam said:

    Italy was on 827 at this point, to our 465.

    Will Boris get the credit for this? He was being teed up to get the blame by the haters had we been keeping up with or surpassing the Italians.


    So we're now on March 9, Italy timeline. We've gained two days.
    Or we are on a different trajectory

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    According the Guardian, the 10,000 unit Dyson order is for what they call the The CoVent, which is a totally new type ventilator. Sounds like Dyson think they have got a new business opportunity, as they want to also sell it around the world.

    I hope that isn't just it. AFAIK, the G-Tech one was very simple the medical experts gave it the ok and the guy was claiming he could make 1,000s of them quickly.

    I have to say if I need one, I think I would definitely prefer the Dyson one than that Oxford University design were showing off today. They might claim to be able to make 5,000 a week of them, but we know what shoddy work they are usually responsible for.
  • isam said:

    Italy was on 827 at this point, to our 465.

    Will Boris get the credit for this? He was being teed up to get the blame by the haters had we been keeping up with or surpassing the Italians.


    How peculiar that you are viewing this crisis as an electoral opportunity for Boris Johnson.

    I am largely complimentary of how the government have dealt with this. My only concerns were firstly I thought the lockdown should have been last Friday, and secondly the relaxing to allow certain retail premises to reopen, along with construction being largely unimpeded by closure are in my view errors.

    So as it stands a 7 or 8 out of ten. And generally speaking I dislike Mr Johnson.
    I think Boris has handled the crisis fairly well overall, but depending upon how long it lasts, I can't see him winning the next election. Like Churchill, the country will thank him, but ditch him for a more socialist government as soon as we get the chance.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,482

    I don't know anybody else, but its a weird feeling.

    We have all seen China, Italy, Spain, France...we know its coming, we know it will be bad, we hope Neil Ferguson is right and the NHS just manages to keep going and that we get enough scrapheap challenge ventilators in place, but is this weird "quiet" time both where nearly everybody is now inside and that <100 people dying of respiratory diseases is per day is really normal life in the UK.</p>

    Speak for yourself. Nobody 'knows' it will be as bad as Spain, Italy or China. The figures today, whilst individually tragic, mathematically are not without hope. If you want to chew on negativity, be my guest, but don't pretend you're presenting reality rather than your own perspective.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,373

    isam said:

    Italy was on 827 at this point, to our 465.

    Will Boris get the credit for this? He was being teed up to get the blame by the haters had we been keeping up with or surpassing the Italians.


    I'm no Boris cheerleader and it's still early days, but people from afar must be looking on with furrowed brows - the reality isn't coinciding with the Boris Death reputation he (supposedly) has in every other country on earth.

    You'll never get your MaoMentum merit badge with thinking like that - Boris is hiding the huge number of dead in the same place as the hundreds of "missing" Grenfell victims.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    My friend in Beijing tells me cases have started to slowly rise again, despite the lock down only being partially removed and restrictions are coming back.

    Bars back to only allowing one person per table and no standing again.

    Not classic Dom.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,935
    Floater said:

    isam said:

    Italy was on 827 at this point, to our 465.

    Will Boris get the credit for this? He was being teed up to get the blame by the haters had we been keeping up with or surpassing the Italians.


    So we're now on March 9, Italy timeline. We've gained two days.
    Or we are on a different trajectory

    I remember the trajectory was described as "worse than Italy" in some places.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    CatMan said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    This level of grandiosity and self-orientation, at this moment, is quite astonishing,

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1242905328209080331

    Every day, his illness gets worse. I feel for Americans.
    I don't, They elected him, they are giving him a 55% approval rating for handling the Corona crisis, they are probably going to reelect him in November. If they really are that thick they have no one to blame but themselves.
    Outside New York city, Massachussetts, California and DC Trump is still pretty popular.

    Left liberals are making the same mistake thinking that the fact most Londoners hated Boris and Brexit meant the rest of the country did too
    The majority of people at the last election didn't vote Conservative. Unfortunately (if you don't like Boris), we have FPTP.
    When was the last time any political party got 50%+ of the vote?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    Floater said:

    tyson said:

    nichomar said:

    tyson said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This evening I confess to feeling really quite scared. I can do nothing to help my family and, if what I am hearing from those close to government is correct, will have to be in self-isolation for the majority of this year.

    To cap it all work on the home we were meant to be moving to in June has now ceased so in a few weeks when our rental comes to an end we will be homeless unless we can extend or find another long-term rental nearby.

    What state will we all be in when this is over?

    Sorry for the wobble. I shall be a bit more positive after a good night’s sleep I dare say.

    My wobbles are first thing in the morning.....I wake up from a lovely sleep to this world....

    And my real anger is against those embarrassing, sycophantic posters here who cheerlead Boris and co to the rafters whilst my family are working in Covid wards unprotected.....

    And you know who you are....


    Boris, Hancock, Rishi, Sturgeon, Drakeford, Foster, Khan plus the medical and scientific advisors deserve the support of the whole nation.

    They are across parties and non

    You are just reflecting your own poltical bias and I do know who I am

    And do not make unwarranted accusations about how deeply I care for everyone in the NHS
    I think the poor guy is terribly stressed, if he is letting off steam here and it helps fair enough, like everybody at the moment understanding and calm is the best response.
    I do agree but we are all under stress in different ways

    And I will defend myself to personal attacks
    I made a comment about members of my family who are working on Covid wards unprotected which you completely dismissed because you are so sycophantic to all things Tory.....there are 30 doctors who have died in 2 weeks in Italy...and countless health staff sick....

    My sister has told me the NHS frontline staff are clubbing together with makeshift protection gear on a day to day basis....


    Its crap Tyson, of course it is.

    There is PPE equipment, Foxy says that and I know from my own knowledge too.

    What there is not enough of is the more extensive PPE equipment

    We also know this is the case across the world, you must get this as you reference the situation in Italy.

    Floater...thanks for the clarification....

    My nephew is on a Covid ward with a paper mask.....no hair guard, or eye goggles...I have a friend on a respiratory unit at St Thomas's who has the full gear...but the majority off those patients are critical and unlikely to survive...

    By the extensive PPE equipment...you mean the proper gear that protects you and should be dispensed to NHS frontline staff on Covid wards which they haven't got...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited March 2020
    CatMan said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    This level of grandiosity and self-orientation, at this moment, is quite astonishing,

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1242905328209080331

    Every day, his illness gets worse. I feel for Americans.
    I don't, They elected him, they are giving him a 55% approval rating for handling the Corona crisis, they are probably going to reelect him in November. If they really are that thick they have no one to blame but themselves.
    Outside New York city, Massachussetts, California and DC Trump is still pretty popular.

    Left liberals are making the same mistake thinking that the fact most Londoners hated Boris and Brexit meant the rest of the country did too
    The majority of people at the last election didn't vote Conservative. Unfortunately (if you don't like Boris), we have FPTP.
    52% of voters did vote for Brexit though and for the Leave campaign Boris led
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    This level of grandiosity and self-orientation, at this moment, is quite astonishing,

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1242905328209080331

    Every day, his illness gets worse. I feel for Americans.
    I don't, They elected him, they are giving him a 55% approval rating for handling the Corona crisis, they are probably going to reelect him in November. If they really are that thick they have no one to blame but themselves.
    Outside New York city, Massachussetts, California and DC Trump is still pretty popular.

    Left liberals are making the same mistake thinking that the fact most Londoners hated Boris and Brexit meant the rest of the country did too
    If you bothered to read what I actually said I am saying the exact opposite.

    I said that he is popular and will get reelected in November and the fact that Americans still prefer him to be their President then I have little sympathy with them for what is coming down the line. 55% of Americans approve of his handling of the crisis apparently.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Outside New York city, Massachussetts, California and DC Trump is still pretty popular.

    Left liberals are making the same mistake thinking that the fact most Londoners hated Boris and Brexit meant the rest of the country did too

    Why do you assume everyone who is liberal is on the Left?
    In the US they tend to be, though here I accept you do get some Orange Book LDs
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,709

    We might have to add Next to the list of bad companies we need to avoid.

    https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1242925962356051968

    Another company to add to the Covid-19 hall of shame?
    They seem to have something in common.

    https://twitter.com/LeaveMnsLeave/status/1051516607279837184
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,838
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This evening I confess to feeling really quite scared. I can do nothing to help my family and, if what I am hearing from those close to government is correct, will have to be in self-isolation for the majority of this year.

    To cap it all work on the home we were meant to be moving to in June has now ceased so in a few weeks when our rental comes to an end we will be homeless unless we can extend or find another long-term rental nearby.

    What state will we all be in when this is over?

    Sorry for the wobble. I shall be a bit more positive after a good night’s sleep I dare say.

    Sorry to hear that, realistically the vast majority of landlords would be delighted to find the current tenant wants to stay longer in the current climate, so discussing it with them and explaining your situation is very likely to result in an amicable stay as long as you need scenario. But if that doesnt work and the rental is an AST it can essentially only be ended by the tenant or a court order, so if you want to stay a bit beyond the end of the tenancy date, there is little the landlord can do to prevent it.
    I texted my tenant and offered her a rent holiday at an early stage because I like to think of myself as a nice person and it seemed the right thing to do.

    But later on, thinking it over, it seemed to me the sensible thing to do as well from a business point of view. I can’t force her to pay the rent right now, and I would a long sight sooner have somebody I know in the house keeping it in order and looked after than it standing empty. For it to be well cared for, she needs to be in a benevolent mood with me as well and right now she’s deeply grateful to know I will stand behind her if she needs it.

    Whether the majority of private landlords will have the sense to see it the way @TSE and I have is another question, of course. But then, you do get some shocking tenants as well.
    Good to hear, out of idle curiosity is such a "rental holiday" making the rent free or accepting delayed payment? If the former that is very generous indeed, the latter is generous too!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    I misread that at first. I was beginning to think that it was endemic in the Royal family....

    Good night.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    isam said:

    Italy was on 827 at this point, to our 465.

    Will Boris get the credit for this? He was being teed up to get the blame by the haters had we been keeping up with or surpassing the Italians.


    So we're now on March 9, Italy timeline. We've gained two days.
    Maybe our epidemiologists really DO know their stuff.....
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,442
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    This evening I confess to feeling really quite scared. I can do nothing to help my family and, if what I am hearing from those close to government is correct, will have to be in self-isolation for the majority of this year.

    To cap it all work on the home we were meant to be moving to in June has now ceased so in a few weeks when our rental comes to an end we will be homeless unless we can extend or find another long-term rental nearby.

    What state will we all be in when this is over?

    Sorry for the wobble. I shall be a bit more positive after a good night’s sleep I dare say.

    I am sorry to hear of your wobble. These are indeed the most wobble-inducing of times.

    If it helps, what I am hearing from those close to Government is significantly more upbeat.
    I simply cannot see how you can keep this level of lockdown going for more than six weeks, and even at that, week five onwards would be tough. At some point we will have to emerge from lockdown, or our food supply network will collapse, which will cause thousands of deaths on its own. It really is that simple, and that stark. Epidemiologists wittering on about this going on for two years are not thinking and not helping.

    At the moment I would predict a slackening from early to mid-May. The real issue will then probably be if there is no effective treatment come the autumn.
    But we have 12 weeks isolation and there are millions of others in the at risk group

    I do not see any easing before mid summer, sadly
    If we have twelve weeks‘ isolation for the full population, people will starve. That is going to be the tradeoff.

    Ultimately, the government may well be forced to take the risk of a spike in coronavirus against the certainty of starvation and/or civil unrest.
    On the civil unrest angle...

    I volunteer for a charity that gives out short-term grants for refugees/asylum seekers who have been left destitute by the Home Office. In grant applications from last week there were lots of clients in difficulties because of food bank closures. This week there have been almost no grant applications - because the organisations that would handle the grant applications have shut.

    There has been a drastic cut in the practical essential living needs support provided for these desperate people, who will now be going seriously hungry.

    We have all heard of society being three meals away from anarchy. Well, there is one small part of society that is already going without food.

    There are only two ways to head this off. You can drop the lockdown - and suffer the virus consequences - or you can stop fannying around with trying to design perfect systems and act quickly to make sure that people who need it have food and shelter.
This discussion has been closed.