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  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774

    God knows why FSTE is only down 0.15%

    You'd expect a pause after yesterday's breathtaking fall - which will have brought some bottom fishers into the market (including some PB'ers - unless their buying trigger points have been reviewed??)

    Plus there must be some anticipation of what young Rishi's rescue package will bring.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800



    Best wishes for your brother making a speedy and full recovery.

    The number of people here with direct experience of family members getting this thing would suggest the nasty genie is well and truly out the bottle.

    Thanks for the kind word. MM. We aren't close but we speak three or four times a week and he's had a rough run of things in the past couple of years. That said, he is physically fit for a man of his age so I am cautiously optimistic and I know he has friends and neighbours who are keeping him supplied with food and medicine.

    I do feel helpless though I console myself it wouldn't much matter if I were 100 yards or 100 miles away.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,060
    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    And the Germans are cheating using a non-standard formulation on the number of dead affected by Covid-19.

    Are they? I thought that was debunked yesterday.
    Patients that are very ill potentially may die anyway. It's the difference between dying of CV and dying with CV.

    I don't think the number difference is huge nor that it is "non standard" as MM insinuates.
    I'm sorry you are just plain wrong!

    The Robert Koch Institute is clearly counting the number of people who die having tested positive. This is not a question of "dying of" or "dying with". If you do not believe that the deaths are that low then you are basically calling the RKI liars.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    Germany's public health agency has warned that the coronavirus crisis could last up to two years.

    The Robert Koch Institute, the German federal government agency responsible for disease control and prevention, made the claim on Tuesday as it strengthened the threat risk for Germany from 'moderate' to 'high'.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8121253/Coronavirus-crisis-TWO-YEARS-Germany-warns.html

    It will be interesting to see how long France are going to keep their lockdown. 2 weeks isn't going to scratch the surface.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848

    Prediction for this afternoon's presser - the government will champion their waiver on business rates and access to SSP as being what will save businesses and individuals from penury. When pressed Boris will waffle and try and bluster his way through the increasingly detailed and angry questions from the media pool.

    Yup. As I predicted, the government propose to do Fuck All.

    https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1239910681886982144
    Useless Tories, protecting big business and the corporations.

    Meanwhile people risk losing everything but at least the finance houses and insurers are protected.
    They wont be able to hold this line long. We were are finally let out again there will not be a single pub, cafe or restaurant to visit.

    Any u-turn will be too late. It's now or never. I cannot believe that Fuck Business is genuinely the Tory philosophy now.

    Sadly about what I expected. I expect a phone call from the friend I mentioned later saying his firm has now laid off the rest of their staff.

    I can't believe they are willing to add a huge spike in unemployment onto the current crisis and can the dwp even cope with it has to be a question let alone councils having to process all the housing benefit claims.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    Sky says we had 407 cases in the last 24 hours.

    Actually, we found 407 cases. If that only that was all we had.....
    Point taken. Hope there weren't actually;y too many more.

    And best wishes to Bro Stodge.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    edited March 2020
    All High Court and Civil Jury trials and civil proofs are now adjourned in the High Court and Court of Session. Sheriff Courts very likely to follow suite. I am looking forward to the Chancellor's statement of support for businesses adversely affected by Covid-19 with more than usual interest.

    Edit the intention is to complete those Jury trials already started including that trial. Salmond gave evidence in chief this morning and is now being crossed so this should really finish this week.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    Wonder why they stopped announcing the total deaths along with the total cases?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    That 20K police numbers cut is going to look like one of the worst public policy decisions in decades in a few days time, if Johnson doesn't get a grip.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    kinabalu said:

    I don't particularly want to hear from the Queen.

    Am I odd in this respect?
    If she said stop panic buying it might help.
    Her Maj won't ever be heading down to Asda at the crack of dawn to grab the last loo roll. I'm not sure she has a lot of credibility on the topic of panic buying.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    I wonder, if we are wanting to keep our favourite pubs and restaurants open, couldn't we just send them the money as if we had been out for a meal. You know, pretend we'd had a lovely evening.

    In return, your pub can note your lovely gesture and say give you 25% off the next couple of meals you do turn up for? When "normality" resumes.

    Just a thought.

    That's actually not such a ridiculous idea.

    Big Society?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455

    Wonder why they stopped announcing the total deaths along with the total cases?

    They did, see tweet below. But...I think they are now rising at significant rate and I am sure they try to make sure all family concerned are informed because they add them to the total.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    FF43 said:

    kinabalu said:

    I don't particularly want to hear from the Queen.

    Am I odd in this respect?
    If she said stop panic buying it might help.
    Her Maj won't ever be heading down to Asda at the crack of dawn to grab the last loo roll. I'm not sure she has a lot of credibility on the topic of panic buying.
    Asda puts an economy pack aside each morning for her chauffeur to collect.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,657

    Wonder why they stopped announcing the total deaths along with the total cases?

    To be announced later apparently.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    edited March 2020
    I presume there is some special company that makes luxury bog roll for her maj. Made from swan feathers or something?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    DavidL said:

    All High Court and Civil Jury trials and civil proofs are now adjourned in the High Court and Court of Session. Sheriff Courts very likely to follow suite. I am looking forward to the Chancellor's statement of support for businesses adversely affected by Covid-19 with more than usual interest.

    Judges do tend to skew old, don't they ?

    Speaking of which...
    March 16, 2020 Kathleen Arberg (202) 479-3211

    In keeping with public health precautions recommended in response to COVID-19, the Supreme Court is postponing the oral arguments currently scheduled for the March session (March 23-25 and March 30-April 1). The Court will examine the options for rescheduling those cases in due course in light of the developing circumstances.

    The Court will hold its regularly scheduled Conference on Friday, March 20. Some Justices may participate remotely by telephone. The Court will issue its regularly scheduled Order List on Monday, March 23 at 9:30 a.m. The list will be posted on the Court’s Website at that time: https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/ordersofthecourt/19.

    The Building will continue to be open for official business, and filing deadlines are not extended under Rule 30.1. The Court is expanding remote working capabilities to reduce the number of employees in the Building, consistent with public health guidance. The Building will remain closed to the public until further notice.

    The Court’s postponement of argument sessions in light of public health concerns is not unprecedented. The Court postponed scheduled arguments for October 1918 in response to the Spanish flu epidemic. The Court also shortened its argument calendars in August 1793 and August 1798 in response to yellow fever outbreaks...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455

    //twitter.com/david_milliken/status/1239929801282129920

    Not to go "its just like flu", but have put that in perspective of how many especially oldies would have passed away during that period. They are not mutually exclusive.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798

    kinabalu said:

    I don't particularly want to hear from the Queen.

    Am I odd in this respect?
    If she said stop panic buying it might help.
    Apart from signing the odd Coutts cheque for a nag, Has the Queen actually bought anything in her puff?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    edited March 2020
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    All High Court and Civil Jury trials and civil proofs are now adjourned in the High Court and Court of Session. Sheriff Courts very likely to follow suite. I am looking forward to the Chancellor's statement of support for businesses adversely affected by Covid-19 with more than usual interest.

    Judges do tend to skew old, don't they ?

    Speaking of which...
    March 16, 2020 Kathleen Arberg (202) 479-3211

    In keeping with public health precautions recommended in response to COVID-19, the Supreme Court is postponing the oral arguments currently scheduled for the March session (March 23-25 and March 30-April 1). The Court will examine the options for rescheduling those cases in due course in light of the developing circumstances.

    The Court will hold its regularly scheduled Conference on Friday, March 20. Some Justices may participate remotely by telephone. The Court will issue its regularly scheduled Order List on Monday, March 23 at 9:30 a.m. The list will be posted on the Court’s Website at that time: https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/ordersofthecourt/19.

    The Building will continue to be open for official business, and filing deadlines are not extended under Rule 30.1. The Court is expanding remote working capabilities to reduce the number of employees in the Building, consistent with public health guidance. The Building will remain closed to the public until further notice.

    The Court’s postponement of argument sessions in light of public health concerns is not unprecedented. The Court postponed scheduled arguments for October 1918 in response to the Spanish flu epidemic. The Court also shortened its argument calendars in August 1793 and August 1798 in response to yellow fever outbreaks...
    Actually I tend to think that they look younger every year. When I started out they looked really old.

    Nice to see this is quite a regular occurrence.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    All High Court and Civil Jury trials and civil proofs are now adjourned in the High Court and Court of Session. Sheriff Courts very likely to follow suite. I am looking forward to the Chancellor's statement of support for businesses adversely affected by Covid-19 with more than usual interest.

    Judges do tend to skew old, don't they ?

    Speaking of which...
    March 16, 2020 Kathleen Arberg (202) 479-3211

    In keeping with public health precautions recommended in response to COVID-19, the Supreme Court is postponing the oral arguments currently scheduled for the March session (March 23-25 and March 30-April 1). The Court will examine the options for rescheduling those cases in due course in light of the developing circumstances.

    The Court will hold its regularly scheduled Conference on Friday, March 20. Some Justices may participate remotely by telephone. The Court will issue its regularly scheduled Order List on Monday, March 23 at 9:30 a.m. The list will be posted on the Court’s Website at that time: https://www.supremecourt.gov/orders/ordersofthecourt/19.

    The Building will continue to be open for official business, and filing deadlines are not extended under Rule 30.1. The Court is expanding remote working capabilities to reduce the number of employees in the Building, consistent with public health guidance. The Building will remain closed to the public until further notice.

    The Court’s postponement of argument sessions in light of public health concerns is not unprecedented. The Court postponed scheduled arguments for October 1918 in response to the Spanish flu epidemic. The Court also shortened its argument calendars in August 1793 and August 1798 in response to yellow fever outbreaks...
    Actually I tend to think that they look younger every year. When I started out they looked really old.

    Nice to see this is quite a regular occurrence.
    So long as we're around for the next one. :smile:
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    kinabalu said:

    I wonder, if we are wanting to keep our favourite pubs and restaurants open, couldn't we just send them the money as if we had been out for a meal. You know, pretend we'd had a lovely evening.

    In return, your pub can note your lovely gesture and say give you 25% off the next couple of meals you do turn up for? When "normality" resumes.

    Just a thought.

    That's actually not such a ridiculous idea.

    Big Society?
    Or groupon?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    edited March 2020
    A big jump in deaths in the Netherlands:

    https://www.rivm.nl/nieuws/actuele-informatie-over-coronavirus
  • glwglw Posts: 9,871
    He's right, unmitigated was 500k and with mitigation 250k, so 20k with supression would be far better than the other options. Of course that's not the end of the matter, there will a lot more to be done to squash future outbreaks as well.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    kinabalu said:

    I don't particularly want to hear from the Queen.

    Am I odd in this respect?
    No. Nor do I care what she says, unless she pledges a series of high-impact fiscal measures to restore business confidence and help small firms (which I suspect is unlikely).
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    I wonder, if we are wanting to keep our favourite pubs and restaurants open, couldn't we just send them the money as if we had been out for a meal. You know, pretend we'd had a lovely evening.

    In return, your pub can note your lovely gesture and say give you 25% off the next couple of meals you do turn up for? When "normality" resumes.

    Just a thought.

    Firm no on that one as far as I'm concerned. Pay that much for them to bring a gourmet meal to your house, leave it on the doorstep and piss off? YES. A payment (unless to a charity) should be earned.

    That's not to say there shouldn't be support for businesses, there *absolutely* should - but it should be adaptation and recovery support.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Alistair said:

    Private Landlords are going to be first up against the wall when the revolution comes. And when they grovel and ask why them they will be slreninded of how they acted during the corona virus.

    Some of the emails and tweets I've seen I've had to quadruple check to make sure they are not parodies. The callusesness is beyond appalling.

    Landlords have to make payments to banks, their tenants have to make payments to landlords, their employers have to make payments to tenants...

    Why should everyone else get bailed out except for them?
    If they get a mortgage holiday from the banks then the benefit should be passed back to the tenants.
  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375

    //twitter.com/david_milliken/status/1239929801282129920

    Not to go "its just like flu", but have put that in perspective of how many especially oldies would have passed away during that period. They are not mutually exclusive.
    These graphs make interesting reading, the figure for the first week of January 2015 is extraordinary in todays context.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/highestnumberofexcesswinterdeathssince19992000/2015-11-25
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Vallance confirms it's official advice to avoid ibuprofen.
    Use paracetamol instead.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,114
    IanB2 said:

    God knows why FSTE is only down 0.15%

    You'd expect a pause after yesterday's breathtaking fall - which will have brought some bottom fishers into the market (including some PB'ers - unless their buying trigger points have been reviewed??)

    Plus there must be some anticipation of what young Rishi's rescue package will bring.
    Some people sadly have already made a huge amount of money out of the markets- the swings are perfect for cashing in and out.....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    The BBC appears to have read Cyclefree's article:

    Coronavirus: 'We have gone from £140,000 a year to nothing'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51916177
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    IanB2 said:

    You'd expect a pause after yesterday's breathtaking fall - which will have brought some bottom fishers into the market (including some PB'ers - unless their buying trigger points have been reviewed??)

    Plus there must be some anticipation of what young Rishi's rescue package will bring.

    I'm still thinking about it. But I'm cashed up for margin and ready to go as soon as I get that Feeling.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,657

    kinabalu said:

    I don't particularly want to hear from the Queen.

    Am I odd in this respect?
    If she said stop panic buying it might help.
    Apart from signing the odd Coutts cheque for a nag, Has the Queen actually bought anything in her puff?
    They'd probably rather not have her messing around with actual money. Several years ago Prince Charles tried to pay for some smoked-salmon sandwiches at a polo match with a sum that amounted to only a fraction of the asking price - embarrassment all round.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Nigelb said:

    The BBC appears to have read Cyclefree's article:

    Coronavirus: 'We have gone from £140,000 a year to nothing'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51916177

    I wonder if any reporters will put Sunak on the spot on things like this. I really hope they do.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    rcs1000 said:

    God knows why FSTE is only down 0.15%

    Because it was down 13% yesterday, and has now lost almost 40% of its value in a month. (38%, I think, in US dollar terms. Which given how many British companies are dollar earners is extraordinary.)
    Brent Crude under $30 a barrel. Given the influence which BP Shell etc have on the FTSE 100 that's a factor in iteself.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,284

    I wonder, if we are wanting to keep our favourite pubs and restaurants open, couldn't we just send them the money as if we had been out for a meal. You know, pretend we'd had a lovely evening.

    In return, your pub can note your lovely gesture and say give you 25% off the next couple of meals you do turn up for? When "normality" resumes.

    Just a thought.

    Firm no on that one as far as I'm concerned. Pay that much for them to bring a gourmet meal to your house, leave it on the doorstep and piss off? YES. A payment (unless to a charity) should be earned.

    That's not to say there shouldn't be support for businesses, there *absolutely* should - but it should be adaptation and recovery support.
    Deliveroo brought me lunch today from a restaurant that I normally visit once a week. It gives them some business and delays me starting in on my supply of dried pasta.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,060

    How come there isn't any national testing numbers for Germany?

    It seems now we are doing 5000-6000 a day now, SK at peak was doing about 14,000.

    I have asked myself that. I have not seen any indication of how many tests are being done here.

    Kaminski has a partner who works in a hospital and claimed last week that they were undertesting in that hospital. I don't have the impression (admittedly totally anecdotal) that germany is doing 10 times as many tests as in France or the UK.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,706
    Nigelb said:

    Vallance confirms it's official advice to avoid ibuprofen.
    Use paracetamol instead.

    Paracetamol has been sold out for over a month. There was a fair quantity of ibuprofen in Tesco yesterday. For all the abuse on here your average Brit was well ahead of the game on this.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    I wonder, if we are wanting to keep our favourite pubs and restaurants open, couldn't we just send them the money as if we had been out for a meal. You know, pretend we'd had a lovely evening.

    In return, your pub can note your lovely gesture and say give you 25% off the next couple of meals you do turn up for? When "normality" resumes.

    Just a thought.

    Firm no on that one as far as I'm concerned. Pay that much for them to bring a gourmet meal to your house, leave it on the doorstep and piss off? YES. A payment (unless to a charity) should be earned.

    That's not to say there shouldn't be support for businesses, there *absolutely* should - but it should be adaptation and recovery support.
    Deliveroo brought me lunch today from a restaurant that I normally visit once a week. It gives them some business and delays me starting in on my supply of dried pasta.
    A great example.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    Impressive to get results out so fast - and mildly encouraging:

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202003/17/WS5e708666a31012821727fcbd.html
    Chinese researchers have completed clinical studies of favipiravir, which has shown promising clinical application in treating the novel coronavirus pneumonia, Zhang Xinmin, head of the China National Center for Biotechnology Development, said on Tuesday.

    Comparative experiments have shown patients treated with favipiravir recovered more quickly and their lung conditions were better improved than the control group, he said.

    Some pharmaceutical enterprises have already obtained drug approval from the State Food and Drug Administration for mass production in February so the supply of favipiravir is guaranteed, he said, adding researchers have already recommended the drug be included in the treatment plan as soon as possible.

    The Third People's Hospital of Shenzhen in Guangdong province conducted a clinical trial on 80 patients, with 35 receiving the drug. The results have shown patients treated with favipiravir took four days before being tested negative, whereas the control group took 11 days.

    The lung conditions of 91.43 percent of the treated group have improved as shown in chest imaging, compared with 62.22 percent of the control group, Zhang said...


    Favipiravir:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favipiravir
  • RobCRobC Posts: 398
    Local authorities now starting to cancel all meetings
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    RobC said:

    Local authorities now starting to cancel all meetings

    Just as well since a substantial proportion of councillors are going to be in lockdown.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    You'd expect a pause after yesterday's breathtaking fall - which will have brought some bottom fishers into the market (including some PB'ers - unless their buying trigger points have been reviewed??)

    Plus there must be some anticipation of what young Rishi's rescue package will bring.

    I'm still thinking about it. But I'm cashed up for margin and ready to go as soon as I get that Feeling.
    I am 80% cash at the moment, having bought a bit last Thursday PM at the end of the bad day.
    Lost a bit more, so sticking out for the moment. We are yet to reach the bottom, but demand will return. I just hope to be around to reap the fruits of my bargains.

    Lots of weird stuff going on at work. No one can keep up with the changing directives. Bays not side rooms for suspected cases now, but results taking 3 days so quite problematic.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,700
    I'm mostly unaffected (directly) by the pandemic, but the Government does need to sort out the economic side, and quickly. It should've been done today (maybe something will be announced in the evening) but so far the measures appear to be insufficient by a large margin.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Vallance confirms it's official advice to avoid ibuprofen.
    Use paracetamol instead.

    Paracetamol has been sold out for over a month. There was a fair quantity of ibuprofen in Tesco yesterday. For all the abuse on here your average Brit was well ahead of the game on this.
    I got a pack in Sainsbury's at the weekend.
    Reasonable number left on shelves back then.

    It's largely manufactured in India, from raw materials from China, I believe.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    I'm mostly unaffected (directly) by the pandemic, but the Government does need to sort out the economic side, and quickly. It should've been done today (maybe something will be announced in the evening) but so far the measures appear to be insufficient by a large margin.

    Hopefully E-books (with their new examption from VAT) will be a good source of income for you during this time?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Nigelb said:

    The BBC appears to have read Cyclefree's article:

    Coronavirus: 'We have gone from £140,000 a year to nothing'
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51916177

    I wonder if any reporters will put Sunak on the spot on things like this. I really hope they do.
    Agreed.
    Let's see what he has to say.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    I'm mostly unaffected (directly) by the pandemic, but the Government does need to sort out the economic side, and quickly. It should've been done today (maybe something will be announced in the evening) but so far the measures appear to be insufficient by a large margin.

    Spot on, it would seem so. However, the Chancellor deserves a hearing at 1600hrs (which I'm told is when his presser begins?)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    Nigelb said:
    Is that for real? They've got Viagra on the list for March 1st!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,892

    RobC said:

    Local authorities now starting to cancel all meetings

    Just as well since a substantial proportion of councillors are going to be in lockdown.
    Looks like my Dad's last meeting will be one about the corona virus itself.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited March 2020
    The government should conduct an honest public information campaign to the effect that most goods, including food, come in by sea or air freight rather than air passenger cargo, and so are so far unaffected by closedowns. This would reduce the current peaks in demand to some extent.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,357

    I presume there is some special company that makes luxury bog roll for her maj. Made from swan feathers or something?

    Cygnet down, surely?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848

    I'm mostly unaffected (directly) by the pandemic, but the Government does need to sort out the economic side, and quickly. It should've been done today (maybe something will be announced in the evening) but so far the measures appear to be insufficient by a large margin.

    insufficient by a large margin doesnt even begin to cover it I can see this ending up with far north of 5 million unemployed and those of us still with jobs taxed till we bleed to pay for it. From what I saw of the original budget proposals it was basically giving more money to the bankers by asking them to extend credit with a boe backstop.....Not sure that is going to go down well with all those that lose their jobs over this
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,357
    edited March 2020

    Nigelb said:
    Is that for real? They've got Viagra on the list for March 1st!
    Takes your mind off your lungs.....?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    I presume there is some special company that makes luxury bog roll for her maj. Made from swan feathers or something?

    Cygnet down, surely?
    As immortalised in the fairy tale "The Princess And The Pee".
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477
    Nigelb said:

    Impressive to get results out so fast - and mildly encouraging:

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202003/17/WS5e708666a31012821727fcbd.html
    Chinese researchers have completed clinical studies of favipiravir, which has shown promising clinical application in treating the novel coronavirus pneumonia, Zhang Xinmin, head of the China National Center for Biotechnology Development, said on Tuesday.

    Comparative experiments have shown patients treated with favipiravir recovered more quickly and their lung conditions were better improved than the control group, he said.

    Some pharmaceutical enterprises have already obtained drug approval from the State Food and Drug Administration for mass production in February so the supply of favipiravir is guaranteed, he said, adding researchers have already recommended the drug be included in the treatment plan as soon as possible.

    The Third People's Hospital of Shenzhen in Guangdong province conducted a clinical trial on 80 patients, with 35 receiving the drug. The results have shown patients treated with favipiravir took four days before being tested negative, whereas the control group took 11 days.

    The lung conditions of 91.43 percent of the treated group have improved as shown in chest imaging, compared with 62.22 percent of the control group, Zhang said...


    Favipiravir:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favipiravir

    I'd call that *very* encouraging! The difference in recovery times and imaging are profound. I wonder though if the Chinese medics have had enough time to test for nasty side effects?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    eristdoof said:

    How come there isn't any national testing numbers for Germany?

    It seems now we are doing 5000-6000 a day now, SK at peak was doing about 14,000.

    I have asked myself that. I have not seen any indication of how many tests are being done here.

    Kaminski has a partner who works in a hospital and claimed last week that they were undertesting in that hospital. I don't have the impression (admittedly totally anecdotal) that germany is doing 10 times as many tests as in France or the UK.
    It is rather unlikely that German is running 10x the number of tests - lab time is the issue with this.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,060
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Vallance confirms it's official advice to avoid ibuprofen.
    Use paracetamol instead.

    Paracetamol has been sold out for over a month. There was a fair quantity of ibuprofen in Tesco yesterday. For all the abuse on here your average Brit was well ahead of the game on this.
    I stock up on paracetamol and ibuprofen whenever I visit England. The supermarket branded tablets are are at worst a 10th of the price compared to in Germany. I realise the absolute price is not so expensive, but it still grates with me that they are so expensive compared to the production and distribution cost. Although I was last there in August, I still have a good six months stocked up, assuming I stay Covid-free that is.
  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 207
    Charles said:

    Alistair said:

    Private Landlords are going to be first up against the wall when the revolution comes. And when they grovel and ask why them they will be slreninded of how they acted during the corona virus.

    Some of the emails and tweets I've seen I've had to quadruple check to make sure they are not parodies. The callusesness is beyond appalling.

    Landlords have to make payments to banks, their tenants have to make payments to landlords, their employers have to make payments to tenants...

    Why should everyone else get bailed out except for them?
    If they get a mortgage holiday from the banks then the benefit should be passed back to the tenants.
    What if they dont have a mortgage? BtL with a mortgage is hard now unless you do it via a company.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    eristdoof said:

    FF43 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    And the Germans are cheating using a non-standard formulation on the number of dead affected by Covid-19.

    Are they? I thought that was debunked yesterday.
    Patients that are very ill potentially may die anyway. It's the difference between dying of CV and dying with CV.

    I don't think the number difference is huge nor that it is "non standard" as MM insinuates.
    I'm sorry you are just plain wrong!

    The Robert Koch Institute is clearly counting the number of people who die having tested positive. This is not a question of "dying of" or "dying with". If you do not believe that the deaths are that low then you are basically calling the RKI liars.
    The Nordic countries also report a low death rate, not much different from Germany. The UK death rate (deaths/total cases) seems to be ~10x higher but might there be differences in procedure or definition? Moderately ill Brits. who think they have it are being told to stay at home.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,892

    Nigelb said:
    Is that for real? They've got Viagra on the list for March 1st!
    PDE inhibitors could cheer up the nation
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    Nigelb said:
    Is that for real? They've got Viagra on the list for March 1st!
    It's been effective in treating high blood pressure in the vessels that supply the lungs, so it's not completely wacko to try it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Nigelb said:

    Impressive to get results out so fast - and mildly encouraging:

    http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202003/17/WS5e708666a31012821727fcbd.html
    Chinese researchers have completed clinical studies of favipiravir, which has shown promising clinical application in treating the novel coronavirus pneumonia, Zhang Xinmin, head of the China National Center for Biotechnology Development, said on Tuesday.

    Comparative experiments have shown patients treated with favipiravir recovered more quickly and their lung conditions were better improved than the control group, he said.

    Some pharmaceutical enterprises have already obtained drug approval from the State Food and Drug Administration for mass production in February so the supply of favipiravir is guaranteed, he said, adding researchers have already recommended the drug be included in the treatment plan as soon as possible.

    The Third People's Hospital of Shenzhen in Guangdong province conducted a clinical trial on 80 patients, with 35 receiving the drug. The results have shown patients treated with favipiravir took four days before being tested negative, whereas the control group took 11 days.

    The lung conditions of 91.43 percent of the treated group have improved as shown in chest imaging, compared with 62.22 percent of the control group, Zhang said...


    Favipiravir:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favipiravir

    I'd call that *very* encouraging! The difference in recovery times and imaging are profound. I wonder though if the Chinese medics have had enough time to test for nasty side effects?
    Indeed.
    It's a small trial, though; hence the caution.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    I am rather surprised that people thought that -

    1) If the government banned things, rather than suggesting not doing them, that this would trigger much in the way of insurance policies. Acts of God, War, Pestilence?
    2) Even if they did this and the insurance covered it, the simple result would be the collapse of the insurance industry in short order. Which in turn would mean a bailout by the government. Which would end up paying anyway.
  • Cancellation of this week's snooker tournament is surely going to mean more old people venturing out than would otherwise be the case.

    Shopping for a seven person household, Aldi's limit of four of any item didn't cut it yesterday, so I found myself sent out for a second day in a row....Tesco was rammed at lunchtime, mostly with old people. Were they preparing for self-isolation? Didn't appear so for the most part.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    edited March 2020

    Nigelb said:
    Is that for real? They've got Viagra on the list for March 1st!
    It was originally developed as a heart drug, I believe.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:
    Is that for real? They've got Viagra on the list for March 1st!
    PDE inhibitors could cheer up the nation
    I'm up for that!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824

    I am rather surprised that people thought that -

    1) If the government banned things, rather than suggesting not doing them, that this would trigger much in the way of insurance policies. Acts of God, War, Pestilence?
    2) Even if they did this and the insurance covered it, the simple result would be the collapse of the insurance industry in short order. Which in turn would mean a bailout by the government. Which would end up paying anyway.

    There was a tweet earlier that suggested the vast majority of businesses wouldn't be covered either way:

    https://twitter.com/murdo_fraser/status/1239893649619668993
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:
    Is that for real? They've got Viagra on the list for March 1st!
    It was originally developed as a heart drug, I believe.

    As some light relief, it would be an interesting diversion if Viagra turned out to be the most effective drug.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    Government's chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance says there are already likely to be 55,000 cases of coronavirus in UK but number of new cases could start to fall in 'two to three weeks' because of the government's crackdown on social contact

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8121845/Governments-chief-scientific-adviser-says-55-000-cases-coronavirus-UK.html

    That seems very optimistic....and I fear the wrong headline message.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    I've just had this in a professional capacity from BMO. I thought others might find it interesting (even if they disagree):

    "Our chief economist, Steven Bell, has written a short article and recorded a video looking at the implications of Coronavirus and what might lie ahead.

    The key messages are as follows:

    • The immediate market response to the dramatic action by the US and other central banks has not been positive
    • Action by governments and businesses to contain the spread of the virus means that global recession now looks inevitable. Corporate profits will be hit hard
    • But the action of South Korea and some other countries demonstrate that the virus can be contained swiftly
    • This all suggests that the damage to the world economy and financial markets can be similarly contained
    • A V-shaped recovery looks likely. The problem lies in trying to gauge the trough"

    The full article is here:

    https://www.bmogam.com/gb-en/institutional/news-and-insights/markets-succumb-to-coronavirus-will-they-recover/?utm_source=Outlook&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=M&utm_content=Macro
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:
    Is that for real? They've got Viagra on the list for March 1st!
    It was originally developed as a heart drug, I believe.

    As some light relief, it would be an interesting diversion if Viagra turned out to be the most effective drug.
    it would stiffen everyone's ... resolve.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231

    Nigelb said:
    Is that for real? They've got Viagra on the list for March 1st!
    It's been effective in treating high blood pressure in the vessels that supply the lungs, so it's not completely wacko to try it.
    But what happens when the *ahem* affect wears off?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited March 2020

    Government's chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance says there are already likely to be 55,000 cases of coronavirus in UK but number of new cases could start to fall in 'two to three weeks' because of the government's crackdown on social contact

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8121845/Governments-chief-scientific-adviser-says-55-000-cases-coronavirus-UK.html

    That seems very optimistic....and I fear the wrong headline message.

    Well - that's a much more optimistic message than recently. I wonder what information he's getting to make him think that. Relatively promising if so.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    The message on Ibuprofen needs to be really widely shared. Most people will go for it when they feel like they under the weather.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    edited March 2020
    One up side on this crisis, with all this money being thrown into medical research, I wonder what other discoveries will be made and potentially cures for other things?

    Hopefully slightly more life saving than a little blue pill that allows you to keep it up for 6 hours....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,925

    Germany's public health agency has warned that the coronavirus crisis could last up to two years.

    The Robert Koch Institute, the German federal government agency responsible for disease control and prevention, made the claim on Tuesday as it strengthened the threat risk for Germany from 'moderate' to 'high'.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8121253/Coronavirus-crisis-TWO-YEARS-Germany-warns.html

    It will be interesting to see how long France are going to keep their lockdown. 2 weeks isn't going to scratch the surface.

    That's not true. Even a two week lockdown makes a massive difference. Because for two weeks you can't infect anyone other that your immediate family. So you see a big pause in the number of newly infected, while the number who cease being infected (via death or recovery) continues to grow.

    These measures aren't about curing coronavirus, it's about driving the number of new infections down significantly, so when you lift the lockdown, you're starting from a much lower base.

    Think of it like this: 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 4, 1, 2, 4, 8, 16...


  • NerysHughesNerysHughes Posts: 3,375
    So according to the ONS in the Winter of 2014/15an average of 450 people per day died above the normal average. In 1999/2000 an average 480 people per day died above the normal average. These were caused by a higher than normal outbreak of flu. Imagine Boris doing his press conference today and saying over the past month 15,000 people had of died of Covid-19. Well thats exactly what happened due to a nasty flu outbreak in 1999/2000 and nobody said anything and the world carried on.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    edited March 2020

    Spot on, it would seem so. However, the Chancellor deserves a hearing at 1600hrs (which I'm told is when his presser begins?)

    Dr Pesto prescribes a dose of Socialism -

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/boris-must-borrow-from-corbyn-s-playbook-to-prevent-a-coronavirus-crash
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    This is also an interesting program from the US biotech Regeneron (which has the capacity to develop and produce in bulk, though it's going to take some time):

    Regeneron Pharmaceuticals, Inc. (NASDAQ: REGN) today announced the latest progress in its efforts to discover and develop a novel multi-antibody cocktail that can be administered as prophylaxis before exposure to the SARS-CoV-2 virus or as treatment for those already infected. Regeneron scientists have now isolated hundreds of virus-neutralizing, fully human antibodies from the company's VelocImmune® mice, which have been genetically-modified to have a human immune system. Regeneron has also isolated antibodies from humans who have recovered from COVID-19, in order to maximize the pool of potentially potent antibodies. From this large pool of candidates, Regeneron will select the top two antibodies for a 'cocktail' treatment based on potency and binding ability to the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein, as well as other desirable qualities. Using a multi-antibody approach allows for targeting of different parts of the virus and may help protect against multiple viral variants. Regeneron previously used these technologies to rapidly develop a successful treatment for Ebola virus infection, which is currently under review by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

    In order to meet the pressing public health need, Regeneron is applying its VelociMab® technology to prepare manufacturing-ready cell lines as lead antibodies are selected, so that clinical-scale production can begin immediately. The company is working toward the goal of producing hundreds of thousands of prophylactic doses per month by the end of summer and hopes to have smaller quantities available for initial clinical testing at the beginning of the summer. The company is working with the U.S. Health & Human Services' Biomedical Advanced Research and Defense Authority (BARDA) to increase capacity even further.

    "Our three decades of investment in our VelociSuite antibody technologies, which accelerate and improve the traditional drug discovery process, have hopefully prepared us for this critical time and to meet this important challenge," said George D. Yancopoulos, M.D., Ph.D., Co-founder, President and Chief Scientific Officer of Regeneron. "Given the tremendous interest and concern around the COVID-19 pandemic, we will be providing regular and transparent updates on our discovery and development programs. I want to recognize our incredible team, which is working around the clock to develop needed solutions to this global health crisis."

    All coronaviruses have a single glycoprotein on the virus surface called the spike protein, which is the protein on the virus cell surface that binds to the host cell and is required for infectivity. Regeneron's SARS-CoV-2 antibodies will target the spike protein in order to block its interaction with the host cell, and thus neutralize the virus....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586

    Government's chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance says there are already likely to be 55,000 cases of coronavirus in UK but number of new cases could start to fall in 'two to three weeks' because of the government's crackdown on social contact

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8121845/Governments-chief-scientific-adviser-says-55-000-cases-coronavirus-UK.html

    That seems very optimistic....and I fear the wrong headline message.

    Well - that's a much more optimistic message than recently. I wonder what information he's getting to make him think that. Relatively promising if so.
    The data from Italy - if true - would be in the scientists hands at the moment. Similarly the Icelandic findings. Again, if correct.

    The number for this still don't make sense. Sometime incredible infection rates, sometime people in close proximity don't catch it....
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,848
    Anecdote alert

    The firm my friend works for has now from what he says laid off all 30 staff. The guy I am told was a good employer as is going to try an nurse the firm through so it can continue when things improve and has promised to try and take all back on. In the meantime a thriving business with around 3 million plus a year turnover has turned into merely an empty office and warehouse full of stock where only the rent and rates are being paid.

    I suspect there are many small firms making exactly the same calculation. There is much anger apparently amongst the staff, not directed at the management but at the government which they perceive as having done nothing to help.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited March 2020

    I've just had this in a professional capacity from BMO. I thought others might find it interesting (even if they disagree):

    "Our chief economist, Steven Bell, has written a short article and recorded a video looking at the implications of Coronavirus and what might lie ahead.

    The key messages are as follows:

    • The immediate market response to the dramatic action by the US and other central banks has not been positive
    • Action by governments and businesses to contain the spread of the virus means that global recession now looks inevitable. Corporate profits will be hit hard
    • But the action of South Korea and some other countries demonstrate that the virus can be contained swiftly
    • This all suggests that the damage to the world economy and financial markets can be similarly contained
    • A V-shaped recovery looks likely. The problem lies in trying to gauge the trough"

    The full article is here:

    https://www.bmogam.com/gb-en/institutional/news-and-insights/markets-succumb-to-coronavirus-will-they-recover/?utm_source=Outlook&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=M&utm_content=Macro

    It's this fact that South-East Asia seems to be recovering while Europe and the USA still seem to be facing problems that made me think that the falls could potentially be to 2008 levels, and then gradually back up, rather than worse than that, a couple of day ago.

    The problem is that it seems as if a lot of governments are both ideologically and practically underprepared for the kind of measures they're going to have take to protect individuals and businesses during that period, and may still try to go through banks and financial institutions, and if they get things wrong in this area that may be worse than the health crisis itself.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    RobD said:

    I am rather surprised that people thought that -

    1) If the government banned things, rather than suggesting not doing them, that this would trigger much in the way of insurance policies. Acts of God, War, Pestilence?
    2) Even if they did this and the insurance covered it, the simple result would be the collapse of the insurance industry in short order. Which in turn would mean a bailout by the government. Which would end up paying anyway.

    There was a tweet earlier that suggested the vast majority of businesses wouldn't be covered either way:

    https://twitter.com/murdo_fraser/status/1239893649619668993
    I would be very surprised if anyone had sold a policy that doesn't have national level emergency get out clauses.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,925
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    God knows why FSTE is only down 0.15%

    Because it was down 13% yesterday, and has now lost almost 40% of its value in a month. (38%, I think, in US dollar terms. Which given how many British companies are dollar earners is extraordinary.)
    Brent Crude under $30 a barrel. Given the influence which BP Shell etc have on the FTSE 100 that's a factor in iteself.
    Although Shell (and to a lesser extent BP) are not as exposed to the oil price as you'd expect. Shell, for example, has more petrol stations than Greenland has people. And they both have massive refining businesses.

    The people who are really exposed to the oil price are US Exploration & Production names, like Apache or Concho.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    edited March 2020

    The government should conduct an honest public information campaign to the effect that most goods, including food, come in by sea or air freight rather than air passenger cargo, and so are so far unaffected by closedowns. This would reduce the current peaks in demand to some extent.

    Reason for my "panic" buying - e.g. HUGE sack of rice today - is not the fear that stuff will run out. I don't think it will. I think the shelves will be full again quite soon. No, it's that I live in London - the epicentre - and as the epidemic rips over the next few weeks it will get less and less safe to go to places (like supermarkets) which are full of people. Therefore buy lots of stuff now in order not to have to go out shopping later.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,480
    edited March 2020
    Just had the 17 page .pdf from HQ on the governments plans. Not labelled secret.
    Interesting reading, and not a lot to disagree with on first skim through.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,925

    Government's chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance says there are already likely to be 55,000 cases of coronavirus in UK but number of new cases could start to fall in 'two to three weeks' because of the government's crackdown on social contact

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8121845/Governments-chief-scientific-adviser-says-55-000-cases-coronavirus-UK.html

    That seems very optimistic....and I fear the wrong headline message.

    That matches my back of the fag packet calculations. Maybe Sir Patrick reads my posts...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,700
    Mr. 1983, thanks for the kind thought but I make very, very little from the books now. That's very much on the backburner for me, I'm writing non-fiction mostly, as a freelance.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774

    So according to the ONS in the Winter of 2014/15an average of 450 people per day died above the normal average. In 1999/2000 an average 480 people per day died above the normal average. These were caused by a higher than normal outbreak of flu. Imagine Boris doing his press conference today and saying over the past month 15,000 people had of died of Covid-19. Well thats exactly what happened due to a nasty flu outbreak in 1999/2000 and nobody said anything and the world carried on.

    Naming something makes it real.

    On a much more trivial level, people go on about these storms a lot more now that it’s Storm Vera or whatever. Before it just used to be raining, now people have been drenched by Storm Vera.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    God knows why FSTE is only down 0.15%

    Because it was down 13% yesterday, and has now lost almost 40% of its value in a month. (38%, I think, in US dollar terms. Which given how many British companies are dollar earners is extraordinary.)
    Brent Crude under $30 a barrel. Given the influence which BP Shell etc have on the FTSE 100 that's a factor in iteself.
    Although Shell (and to a lesser extent BP) are not as exposed to the oil price as you'd expect. Shell, for example, has more petrol stations than Greenland has people. And they both have massive refining businesses.

    The people who are really exposed to the oil price are US Exploration & Production names, like Apache or Concho.
    US frackers are also extremely exposed to the Presidential election.
    Biden has promised to allow no new fracking (Sanders was going to shut it down overnight).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824

    RobD said:

    I am rather surprised that people thought that -

    1) If the government banned things, rather than suggesting not doing them, that this would trigger much in the way of insurance policies. Acts of God, War, Pestilence?
    2) Even if they did this and the insurance covered it, the simple result would be the collapse of the insurance industry in short order. Which in turn would mean a bailout by the government. Which would end up paying anyway.

    There was a tweet earlier that suggested the vast majority of businesses wouldn't be covered either way:

    https://twitter.com/murdo_fraser/status/1239893649619668993
    I would be very surprised if anyone had sold a policy that doesn't have national level emergency get out clauses.
    Isn't that what this statement suggests, and it's from the association of British insurers?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,455
    edited March 2020
    There was a question from Jeremy Hunt, the former health secretary, about whether Britain could and should follow the example of some Asian countries in using mobile phone tracking to identify movements of people who may have the virus - even though there may be civil liberties implications

    That approach would have made total sense back in January, replied Vallance, and may well yet come back into play at a later stage. But he knows that people are working very, very hard in the UK and elsewhere in developing that approach.

    I wonder how the tw@tterati are going to take to the idea of the government tracking your every move?

    The interesting thing here, "well yet come back into play at a later stage"...more evidence they don't think is a one time thing.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    edited March 2020
    ..
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    Foxy said:

    Just had the 17 page .pdf from HQ on the governments plans. Not labelled secret.
    Interesting reading, and not a lot to disagree with on first skim through.

    If it's not secret, can it be posted somewhere with a link?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,586
    edited March 2020
    IanB2 said:

    ..

    Enigmatic.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Vallance confirms it's official advice to avoid ibuprofen.
    Use paracetamol instead.

    Paracetamol has been sold out for over a month. There was a fair quantity of ibuprofen in Tesco yesterday. For all the abuse on here your average Brit was well ahead of the game on this.
    I stock up on paracetamol and ibuprofen whenever I visit England. The supermarket branded tablets are are at worst a 10th of the price compared to in Germany. I realise the absolute price is not so expensive, but it still grates with me that they are so expensive compared to the production and distribution cost. Although I was last there in August, I still have a good six months stocked up, assuming I stay Covid-free that is.
    Thank Thatcher for that - I remember when her EvulTory drive to get the NHS to use EvulToryGenericDrugs was going to destroy the NHS.....

    As my father commented (a philosopher who specialised in medical ethics observed) - "The generics are quite useless - at providing all expenses paid conferences to the Caribbean."

    The same push bought alot of new brands onto the pharmacists shelves.
This discussion has been closed.