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  • Options
    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    IanB2 said:

    Alistair said:

    Private Landlords are going to be first up against the wall when the revolution comes. And when they grovel and ask why them they will be slreninded of how they acted during the corona virus.

    Some of the emails and tweets I've seen I've had to quadruple check to make sure they are not parodies. The callusesness is beyond appalling.

    Landlords have to make payments to banks, their tenants have to make payments to landlords, their employers have to make payments to tenants...

    Why should everyone else get bailed out except for them?
    Because they don’t deserve it?
    If we're going to decide that only the 'deserving' should get government money in a unprecedented national crisis, then there's a lot of people who might end up on a very sticky wicket...
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    malcolmg said:

    Alistair said:

    Private Landlords are going to be first up against the wall when the revolution comes. And when they grovel and ask why them they will be slreninded of how they acted during the corona virus.

    Some of the emails and tweets I've seen I've had to quadruple check to make sure they are not parodies. The callusesness is beyond appalling.

    Bit of a sweeping statement there methinks, you looking to get free rent
    Own my own home and have been a landlord in the past.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,242
    IanB2 said:

    Tonight's welding evening class cancelled for the foreseeable future as the college is closed to students from 5pm onwards. I was making a bit of a bourach of my project so every cloud and all that.

    You could offer to give your torch one last outing by sealing the college doors?
    My inept, wet liberal MIG welding would be certain not to do the totalitarian job.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,052

    This 4pm press conf is critical.
    Specific measures are not necessary.
    We need to know that HMG are not going to nickel, dime and salami-slice this. We need assurance that the government will do everything necessary.

    A bit like Macron's "No business will fail" message - clear and simple, the detail can follow.
    Has it ever occurred to you politicians lie ? Businesses in France will fail despite what Macron says.
    Yeah, but however untrue it might be, it's also great messaging: the French government has your back in this difficult time.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,759

    IanB2 said:

    Alistair said:

    Private Landlords are going to be first up against the wall when the revolution comes. And when they grovel and ask why them they will be slreninded of how they acted during the corona virus.

    Some of the emails and tweets I've seen I've had to quadruple check to make sure they are not parodies. The callusesness is beyond appalling.

    Landlords have to make payments to banks, their tenants have to make payments to landlords, their employers have to make payments to tenants...

    Why should everyone else get bailed out except for them?
    Because they don’t deserve it?
    If we're going to decide that only the 'deserving' should get government money in a unprecedented national crisis, then there's a lot of people who might end up on a very sticky wicket...
    Why do landlords have to make payments to banks? They could sell the properties and repay the loans.
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    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    Foss said:

    I blame Brexit for ruining the economy.

    The number of unemployed people in the UK increased by 5,000 to 1.34 million in the three months to January compared to the same period last year.

    It marks the first annual increase in unemployment since May to June 2012.

    https://news.sky.com/story/gloomy-outlook-for-workers-as-unemployment-increases-11958839

    Plus, this all kicked off just after we left the EU...

    Don't let anyone tell you the two aren't related. :wink:
    If you are self isolating, you could always make tinfoil hats.... :D:D
    Cue run on tinfoil... :lol:
    Tinfoil hats boost certain signals.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20110412061422/http://berkeley.intel-research.net/arahimi/helmet/
    Yes - they amplify the frequencies used by GPS satellites. You may be hearing timestamps rather than voices from heaven......

    :D:D
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    Gabs3 said:
    This guy just cannot be as stupid as he makes out on a daily basis. How did anyone employ such a fool.
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    Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547

    Gabs3 said:
    The detail that he's missing is that the change that prompted the sounding of the siren was when they realized that the thing that looked like a bomber, that everyone was pointing at and saying "that's a bomber", was a bomber.
    Rather that than accidentally shoot down an airliner, so long as we acted in time in the end.
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,759
    rcs1000 said:

    This 4pm press conf is critical.
    Specific measures are not necessary.
    We need to know that HMG are not going to nickel, dime and salami-slice this. We need assurance that the government will do everything necessary.

    A bit like Macron's "No business will fail" message - clear and simple, the detail can follow.
    Has it ever occurred to you politicians lie ? Businesses in France will fail despite what Macron says.
    Yeah, but however untrue it might be, it's also great messaging: the French government has your back in this difficult time.
    Precisely.
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    SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 600
    edited March 2020
    The government is going to have to sort out supermarket deliveries for those self-isolating. Tesco's delivery slots are booked up 2 weeks in advance and so are click and collect.

    I know there are other supermarkets but Waitrose isn't taking new registrations.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,242

    Alistair said:

    The SNP just made Thornberry look like a proper knob in Parliament. They, the LibDems, and most of Labour (e.g. Ashworth and backbenchers) are doing a good job.

    What happened?
    Her tone was, shall we say, less than constructive, and Alyn Smith gave her a kicking for it.
    "I hate the SNP. I hate the SNP. I think they're Tories wrapped up in nationalist clothing, they pretend to be on the left but they're not on the left."

    I daresay Emms won't be changing that view anytime soon.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited March 2020

    This 4pm press conf is critical.
    Specific measures are not necessary.
    We need to know that HMG are not going to nickel, dime and salami-slice this. We need assurance that the government will do everything necessary.

    A bit like Macron's "No business will fail" message - clear and simple, the detail can follow.
    That is a hostage to fortune, and a lie. It is a bit like his comments on rebuilding Notre-Dame in 5 years.
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    From my niece in Elgin

    World gone crazy i tell ya. Riots at Aldi this morning when the delivery lorry arrived apparently! People trying get on lorry to get food 😫
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,045

    This 4pm press conf is critical.
    Specific measures are not necessary.
    We need to know that HMG are not going to nickel, dime and salami-slice this. We need assurance that the government will do everything necessary.

    A bit like Macron's "No business will fail" message - clear and simple, the detail can follow.
    Has it ever occurred to you politicians lie ? Businesses in France will fail despite what Macron says.
    Of course. But how does Boris's wiffle-waffle help confidence?
    It would take a considerable mental leap to let me have confidence in anything Boris says.
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    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,846
    @DougSeal

    Out of curiousity what is the likely situation for those that could perfectly adequately work from home without problem but their company/line manager decides that they want them in the office.

    I ask as our company ceo told us friday to all work from home till the 31st after which they would review advice. However the line manager for our team is muttering about reviewing this friday as she doesn't like people working from home
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,759

    IanB2 said:

    Tonight's welding evening class cancelled for the foreseeable future as the college is closed to students from 5pm onwards. I was making a bit of a bourach of my project so every cloud and all that.

    You could offer to give your torch one last outing by sealing the college doors?
    My inept, wet liberal MIG welding would be certain not to do the totalitarian job.
    There are plenty of good Youtube vids for welding. Plus the invaluable Mig Welding Forum of course http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,052
    I forecast:

    £1,000/month to all British residents for three months. (Cost £210bn)

    Plus additional "business support payments" to ensure firms don't shutter. (Cost £100bn)

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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    rcs1000 said:

    This 4pm press conf is critical.
    Specific measures are not necessary.
    We need to know that HMG are not going to nickel, dime and salami-slice this. We need assurance that the government will do everything necessary.

    A bit like Macron's "No business will fail" message - clear and simple, the detail can follow.
    Has it ever occurred to you politicians lie ? Businesses in France will fail despite what Macron says.
    Yeah, but however untrue it might be, it's also great messaging: the French government has your back in this difficult time.
    It's great until it goes tits up, then the angry voters say you bastard you promised. And all run round in yellow vests burning cars.

    The amount of money he has set aside is about a handful of days of France's turnover.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,370

    Here's something a bit constructive people can do - learn to make sauerkraut.
    Reasons.
    1. Amazingly nutritious and high in vitamin C - fermentation makes the nutrients more bioavailable
    2. Delicious
    3. Full of beneficial bacteria to look after your gut microbiome, which is part of a healthy immune system
    3. A natural form of preservation, will last and last, but be WAY healthier than tinned foods
    4. Panic buyers are avoiding fresh cabbages.

    You'll need a Kilner jar or similar, salt (better quality the better), and potentially a small quantity of natural yoghurt to kick start the process.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUwC7bTjLkQ

    Had been thinking of doing something of that ilk for a while so thanks for the nudge.
    Cool! Check out all the videos/techniques to see which one suits you best. Main thing is making sure the veg is under the water so it 'anaerobically ferments' as opposed to just going off. I make mine with cabbage (sometimes red) and carrot (yum), Himalayan salt from Amazon, and I put a teaspoon of Yeo Valley through it before it goes in the jar to start the process off. You can't fail.
    You can also buy it with the work already done. I doubt there’s been a run on it.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,776
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Korean use of smartphones and apps for contact tracing and monitoring has, from the start, been.... smart.

    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2020/03/119_286335.html
    Korea is expanding its special screening at airports and ports to all overseas travelers starting from Thursday, in an effort to contain COVID-19 which is spreading in Korea and around the world, the government said Tuesday.

    Currently, travelers, both Koreans and non-Koreans, arriving from China, Japan and all European countries are subject to special screening at entry points.

    "Given that the new coronavirus pandemic is spreading all over the world and that more people coming from abroad show symptoms or are infected, Korea will expand a special screening procedure to all entrants," Kim Gang-lip, the vice health minister, said during a press conference held in Sejong, Tuesday.

    Kim said six recent coronavirus cases involved people with records of traveling abroad. "We feel an increasing need for stricter border control."

    According to the government, as of March 15, a total of 44 coronavirus patients had a record of traveling outside ― 16 visiting Europe, 14 China and 14 other Asian countries.

    "A country like Peru completely sealed the country up which we consider too drastic for Korea. The best option for us would be screening all who arrive in Korea," Kim said.

    The special screening consists of checking people's body temperature and filling out a personal health survey before leaving the airport or port. Also, people must share their local contact information ― phone number and address ― and download a smartphone application through which users have to report their daily health condition to the quarantine authorities.

    The Korean Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (KCDC) said Tuesday Korea reported 84 new cases of COVID-19 infection on Monday, putting the total number of cases at 8,320 with 81 fatalities. ...

    The South Koreans really should be ruling the world, sensible and proportionate, efficient and consistent. They make good movies too.
    If you enjoyed Train to Busan, the Joseon (very roughly, the Korean equivalent to Tudor) zombie series 'Kingdom' is available on Netflix.
    I think I will be skipping zombie movies for a bit...
    Yes, sorry about that...

    Lightweight romantic comedy where the protagonist is allergic to human contact ?
    https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/81042328
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    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,759
    Pagan2 said:

    @DougSeal

    Out of curiousity what is the likely situation for those that could perfectly adequately work from home without problem but their company/line manager decides that they want them in the office.

    I ask as our company ceo told us friday to all work from home till the 31st after which they would review advice. However the line manager for our team is muttering about reviewing this friday as she doesn't like people working from home

    Just ignore her. What's she going to do, give you a disciplinary?
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    Mrs P. has just gone to the garden centre for some compost. I asked her if it was an essential trip. Apparently it is. No compost = no vegetables = starvation.

    I think she might be spinning that a bit tbh.

    I like that story Ben. It made me smile
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,294
    rcs1000 said:

    I forecast:

    £1,000/month to all British residents for three months. (Cost £210bn)

    Plus additional "business support payments" to ensure firms don't shutter. (Cost £100bn)

    blimey.
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    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,200
    Pagan2 said:

    @DougSeal

    Out of curiousity what is the likely situation for those that could perfectly adequately work from home without problem but their company/line manager decides that they want them in the office.

    I ask as our company ceo told us friday to all work from home till the 31st after which they would review advice. However the line manager for our team is muttering about reviewing this friday as she doesn't like people working from home

    At the moment the advice, as I understand it, from HMG is that those that can work from home should work from home. If I was instructed to run an unfair dismissal claim in those circumstances I would say no reasonable employer would act against the advice of HMG.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,776

    IanB2 said:

    Tonight's welding evening class cancelled for the foreseeable future as the college is closed to students from 5pm onwards. I was making a bit of a bourach of my project so every cloud and all that.

    You could offer to give your torch one last outing by sealing the college doors?
    My inept, wet liberal MIG welding would be certain not to do the totalitarian job.
    There are plenty of good Youtube vids for welding. Plus the invaluable Mig Welding Forum of course http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/
    Spot of advice ?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,294
    What time is the treasury statement?
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    StockyStocky Posts: 9,736
    Alistair said:

    Dems down to @1.9 to win.
    Act fast.

    I`m already on. Of course, one could back Biden at 2.16 for next president as an alternative to 1.9 dems to win.

    Which of these do you favour?
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    FossFoss Posts: 694
    rcs1000 said:

    I forecast:

    £1,000/month to all British residents for three months. (Cost £210bn)

    Plus additional "business support payments" to ensure firms don't shutter. (Cost £100bn)

    If that's true then buy anything you think you might need from Amazon right now. You'll be waiting weeks otherwise.
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    What time is the treasury statement?

    We think between 4 and 5 today
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,776
    edited March 2020

    IanB2 said:

    Alistair said:

    Private Landlords are going to be first up against the wall when the revolution comes. And when they grovel and ask why them they will be slreninded of how they acted during the corona virus.

    Some of the emails and tweets I've seen I've had to quadruple check to make sure they are not parodies. The callusesness is beyond appalling.

    Landlords have to make payments to banks, their tenants have to make payments to landlords, their employers have to make payments to tenants...

    Why should everyone else get bailed out except for them?
    Because they don’t deserve it?
    If we're going to decide that only the 'deserving' should get government money in a unprecedented national crisis, then there's a lot of people who might end up on a very sticky wicket...
    Why do landlords have to make payments to banks? They could sell the properties and repay the loans.
    All at once, in current conditions ?
    That sounds like one of those systemic risks I mentioned below...
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    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Tonight's welding evening class cancelled for the foreseeable future as the college is closed to students from 5pm onwards. I was making a bit of a bourach of my project so every cloud and all that.

    You could offer to give your torch one last outing by sealing the college doors?
    My inept, wet liberal MIG welding would be certain not to do the totalitarian job.
    There are plenty of good Youtube vids for welding. Plus the invaluable Mig Welding Forum of course http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/
    Spot of advice ?
    Weld away. I have an angle grinder and a box of new cutting discs...
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    The government daily presser needs to be at the same time every day. I would have thought 6 or 7pm would be an ideal time.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I can see why BA don't want competitors bailed out

    https://twitter.com/JamesFallows/status/1239657406184820736
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    Prediction for this afternoon's presser - the government will champion their waiver on business rates and access to SSP as being what will save businesses and individuals from penury. When pressed Boris will waffle and try and bluster his way through the increasingly detailed and angry questions from the media pool.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,242

    IanB2 said:

    Tonight's welding evening class cancelled for the foreseeable future as the college is closed to students from 5pm onwards. I was making a bit of a bourach of my project so every cloud and all that.

    You could offer to give your torch one last outing by sealing the college doors?
    My inept, wet liberal MIG welding would be certain not to do the totalitarian job.
    There are plenty of good Youtube vids for welding. Plus the invaluable Mig Welding Forum of course http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/
    Thanks, I've been doing a bit of web scouring as I just can't seem to crack a decent technique. The main problem is that I can't see the rod tip once the arc starts so am welding blind more or less. I was wondering whether to invest in a good welding helmet with adjustable shade range on the lens, though not a priority now obviously.
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    Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 8,846

    Pagan2 said:

    @DougSeal

    Out of curiousity what is the likely situation for those that could perfectly adequately work from home without problem but their company/line manager decides that they want them in the office.

    I ask as our company ceo told us friday to all work from home till the 31st after which they would review advice. However the line manager for our team is muttering about reviewing this friday as she doesn't like people working from home

    Just ignore her. What's she going to do, give you a disciplinary?
    yes she would probably try.

    @DougSeal thanks more or less what I thought
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    SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 600

    From my niece in Elgin

    World gone crazy i tell ya. Riots at Aldi this morning when the delivery lorry arrived apparently! People trying get on lorry to get food 😫

    The government needs to sort out food deliveries to those self-isolating.
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    FossFoss Posts: 694

    From my niece in Elgin

    World gone crazy i tell ya. Riots at Aldi this morning when the delivery lorry arrived apparently! People trying get on lorry to get food 😫

    https://twitter.com/itvtynetees/status/1239887853506768897
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    BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Alistair said:

    Private Landlords are going to be first up against the wall when the revolution comes. And when they grovel and ask why them they will be slreninded of how they acted during the corona virus.

    Some of the emails and tweets I've seen I've had to quadruple check to make sure they are not parodies. The callusesness is beyond appalling.

    Landlords have to make payments to banks, their tenants have to make payments to landlords, their employers have to make payments to tenants...

    Why should everyone else get bailed out except for them?
    Because they don’t deserve it?
    If we're going to decide that only the 'deserving' should get government money in a unprecedented national crisis, then there's a lot of people who might end up on a very sticky wicket...
    Why do landlords have to make payments to banks? They could sell the properties and repay the loans.
    All at once, in current conditions ?
    That sounds like one of those systemic risks I mentioned below...
    But who cares about inflicting an unnecessary systemic shock to the economy when there are eeevil landlords to bash? :confused:
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137

    IanB2 said:

    Tonight's welding evening class cancelled for the foreseeable future as the college is closed to students from 5pm onwards. I was making a bit of a bourach of my project so every cloud and all that.

    You could offer to give your torch one last outing by sealing the college doors?
    My inept, wet liberal MIG welding would be certain not to do the totalitarian job.
    There are plenty of good Youtube vids for welding. Plus the invaluable Mig Welding Forum of course http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/
    Thanks, I've been doing a bit of web scouring as I just can't seem to crack a decent technique. The main problem is that I can't see the rod tip once the arc starts so am welding blind more or less. I was wondering whether to invest in a good welding helmet with adjustable shade range on the lens, though not a priority now obviously.
    Do your neighbours KNOW you are going to weld them in?
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    Prediction for this afternoon's presser - the government will champion their waiver on business rates and access to SSP as being what will save businesses and individuals from penury. When pressed Boris will waffle and try and bluster his way through the increasingly detailed and angry questions from the media pool.

    It will be Rishi Sunak, the chancellor not Boris
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137

    What time is the treasury statement?

    We think between 4 and 5 today
    Thought I saw 7.00 pm somewhere?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    Alistair said:

    I can see why BA don't want competitors bailed out

    https://twitter.com/JamesFallows/status/1239657406184820736

    I read that BA has £10bn in the bank. They could sit doing nothing for a year or so and still pay all their staff.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151

    Gabs3 said:
    The detail that he's missing is that the change that prompted the sounding of the siren was when they realized that the thing that looked like a bomber, that everyone was pointing at and saying "that's a bomber", was a bomber.
    Rather that than accidentally shoot down an airliner, so long as we acted in time in the end.
    You didn't act in time, you were too late. Now you'll need a bigger lockdown that you should have.
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    SandraMc said:

    From my niece in Elgin

    World gone crazy i tell ya. Riots at Aldi this morning when the delivery lorry arrived apparently! People trying get on lorry to get food 😫

    The government needs to sort out food deliveries to those self-isolating.
    No they don't. They lied about meeting with the supermarkets. Then met and told them to get on with it, then told the press that tried and tested contingency plans were in place. Which turns out to be "more online shops" which none of supermarkets can do.

    We will need the army distributing food. We'll be waiting a while.
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    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,407
    kinabalu said:

    Thanks - just read @stodge's post. No totally anti just sounding a note of caution if I read it right.

    Suspect there's going to be a terrible backlash if Sunak doesn't announce something groundbreaking.

    The "Owen Jones package" of 5 essentials will need to be implemented. We are going Socialist for a while. Wonder if the habit will stick once acquired?
    Dunno, but it will be associated with the grimmest period of British History in most people's lives.
    They might not want a reminder of that.
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    Foss said:

    From my niece in Elgin

    World gone crazy i tell ya. Riots at Aldi this morning when the delivery lorry arrived apparently! People trying get on lorry to get food 😫

    https://twitter.com/itvtynetees/status/1239887853506768897
    I love Teesside me
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    The Houses of Parliament really should either be turned into museum or knocked down. This crisis shows how antiquated the system is that they have to be there to participate. In many legislatures members can vote electronically and broadcast or electronically publish speeches. This from a Spanish politician Inés Arrimadas, leader of Ciudadanos, announced at a press conference that tomorrow, no deputy from her party will attend the plenary session of Congress, because they do not want to expose the workers and because they believe that politicians have to set an example when they are asking the citizenship that stays at home and telework. She will send her speech electronically to whoever wants to listen, she has said.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,026
    Foss said:

    From my niece in Elgin

    World gone crazy i tell ya. Riots at Aldi this morning when the delivery lorry arrived apparently! People trying get on lorry to get food 😫

    https://twitter.com/itvtynetees/status/1239887853506768897
    We are about at the Sarajevo in March '92 stage.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    nichomar said:

    The Houses of Parliament really should either be turned into museum or knocked down. This crisis shows how antiquated the system is that they have to be there to participate. In many legislatures members can vote electronically and broadcast or electronically publish speeches. This from a Spanish politician Inés Arrimadas, leader of Ciudadanos, announced at a press conference that tomorrow, no deputy from her party will attend the plenary session of Congress, because they do not want to expose the workers and because they believe that politicians have to set an example when they are asking the citizenship that stays at home and telework. She will send her speech electronically to whoever wants to listen, she has said.

    I think there are bigger things to worry about right now! ;)
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    malcolmg said:

    Gabs3 said:
    This guy just cannot be as stupid as he makes out on a daily basis. How did anyone employ such a fool.
    We have a whip round, malc, just so he can wind you up on a daily basis....
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    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    I can see why BA don't want competitors bailed out

    https://twitter.com/JamesFallows/status/1239657406184820736

    I read that BA has £10bn in the bank. They could sit doing nothing for a year or so and still pay all their staff.
    Why would they do that when they can simply sack all of them and blame the government for not helping?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985

    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    I can see why BA don't want competitors bailed out

    https://twitter.com/JamesFallows/status/1239657406184820736

    I read that BA has £10bn in the bank. They could sit doing nothing for a year or so and still pay all their staff.
    Why would they do that when they can simply sack all of them and blame the government for not helping?
    Because they government will say you have £10bn in the bank.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,115

    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    I can see why BA don't want competitors bailed out

    https://twitter.com/JamesFallows/status/1239657406184820736

    I read that BA has £10bn in the bank. They could sit doing nothing for a year or so and still pay all their staff.
    Why would they do that when they can simply sack all of them and blame the government for not helping?
    As they still need a workforce when flights resume
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,052
    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    I can see why BA don't want competitors bailed out

    https://twitter.com/JamesFallows/status/1239657406184820736

    I read that BA has £10bn in the bank. They could sit doing nothing for a year or so and still pay all their staff.
    See: https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/ES/IAG/financials/annual/balance-sheet

    They have cash, but also a lot of debt that they will need to pay interest on.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,312
    edited March 2020

    One of the lessons from the global financial crisis is that concerns about moral hazard have less than zero relevance right now.

    The core requirement will be to pay huge numbers of people a living wage for doing nothing. Not sure what the best mechanism will be for that. It has to be done, but it will take government debt in many countries to astronomical levels, and there must be risk that this will become untenable if China slumps and bond markets malfunction. If the consequence is then money printing on a colossal scale there is a further risk of rampant inflation. The sort of inflation that destroys societies and leads to civil disorder.
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    eekeek Posts: 25,020

    Prediction for this afternoon's presser - the government will champion their waiver on business rates and access to SSP as being what will save businesses and individuals from penury. When pressed Boris will waffle and try and bluster his way through the increasingly detailed and angry questions from the media pool.

    It will be Rishi Sunak, the chancellor not Boris
    If they don't come up with a decent plan Rishi will have gone from hero to zero in less than a week...

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    eek said:

    Prediction for this afternoon's presser - the government will champion their waiver on business rates and access to SSP as being what will save businesses and individuals from penury. When pressed Boris will waffle and try and bluster his way through the increasingly detailed and angry questions from the media pool.

    It will be Rishi Sunak, the chancellor not Boris
    If they don't come up with a decent plan Rishi will have gone from hero to zero in less than a week...

    I accept that
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,776
    Stocky said:

    Alistair said:

    Dems down to @1.9 to win.
    Act fast.

    I`m already on. Of course, one could back Biden at 2.16 for next president as an alternative to 1.9 dems to win.

    Which of these do you favour?
    Laying Trump for Pres. - though it's gone from 1.75 to 2.24, is probably still some value. Though it's not quite as good odds as a bet on the Dems, it captures slightly more eventualities - ie Trump resigning/dying and the Republican nominee winning the election.
    (Though note, not Pence becoming president before the election: the bet is -
    Who will be elected to be the next President of the United States of America as a result of the 2020 presidential election?)
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    Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    rcs1000 said:

    I forecast:

    £1,000/month to all British residents for three months. (Cost £210bn)

    Plus additional "business support payments" to ensure firms don't shutter. (Cost £100bn)

    How do we exclude people like me who are going to go on getting paid? Or do I get a bung too? If so, the likes of amazon and B&Q are in for a good year.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,294
    Is there a book on when marshal law is implemented?

    I'm not joking either.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985

    rcs1000 said:

    I forecast:

    £1,000/month to all British residents for three months. (Cost £210bn)

    Plus additional "business support payments" to ensure firms don't shutter. (Cost £100bn)

    How do we exclude people like me who are going to go on getting paid? Or do I get a bung too? If so, the likes of amazon and B&Q are in for a good year.
    Doing your bit for the economy.
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    It's going to get scary. Tesco in Loughborough stripped. Sainsbury in Melton the same. It's only day one!
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291

    Is there a book on when marshal law is implemented?

    I'm not joking either.

    I presume Paddy Power will run a book on this.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    Just dropped a mountain of box sets of classic movies in to my neighbours - who both lived through WW2. Totally calm - "people say it's like the war - but it's not like the Germans are bombing me on a nightly basis."
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    HYUFD said:

    twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1239892395866689542?s=20
    twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1239894011269218305?s=20

    You watch some tw@ts still go on Barbara's hen do....
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,370

    Is there a book on when marshal law is implemented?

    I'm not joking either.

    You’re not spelling either. Are you a republican senator?
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    Alistair said:

    I can see why BA don't want competitors bailed out

    https://twitter.com/JamesFallows/status/1239657406184820736

    I read that BA has £10bn in the bank. They could sit doing nothing for a year or so and still pay all their staff.
    See: https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/ES/IAG/financials/annual/balance-sheet

    They have cash, but also a lot of debt that they will need to pay interest on.
    The cinema people seemed to think that closing their premises was an event of default?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,395

    IanB2 said:

    Tonight's welding evening class cancelled for the foreseeable future as the college is closed to students from 5pm onwards. I was making a bit of a bourach of my project so every cloud and all that.

    You could offer to give your torch one last outing by sealing the college doors?
    My inept, wet liberal MIG welding would be certain not to do the totalitarian job.
    I imagine you must watch The Full Monty with a new, informed sensitivity.
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    Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited March 2020

    SandraMc said:

    From my niece in Elgin

    World gone crazy i tell ya. Riots at Aldi this morning when the delivery lorry arrived apparently! People trying get on lorry to get food 😫

    The government needs to sort out food deliveries to those self-isolating.
    No they don't. They lied about meeting with the supermarkets. Then met and told them to get on with it, then told the press that tried and tested contingency plans were in place. Which turns out to be "more online shops" which none of supermarkets can do.

    We will need the army distributing food. We'll be waiting a while.
    If we deployed every serviceman and woman we have, we have about 200,000 people. Allow for sickness and shift patterns, and you get down to 40,000 if you’re lucky. Probably less given the extra sickness challenge at the minute. How many tasks do we have for the military? We need to choose wisely. I think deliveries need to be volunteers.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,294

    It's going to get scary. Tesco in Loughborough stripped. Sainsbury in Melton the same. It's only day one!

    Government needs to act now on this. Crazy to allow this to get out of hand. They don't have a plan for control of access to food supplies?
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,045

    It's going to get scary. Tesco in Loughborough stripped. Sainsbury in Melton the same. It's only day one!

    Drove past a Tesco earlier. Car park solid. Not usual at this time.
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    Gabs3 said:
    The detail that he's missing is that the change that prompted the sounding of the siren was when they realized that the thing that looked like a bomber, that everyone was pointing at and saying "that's a bomber", was a bomber.
    Rather that than accidentally shoot down an airliner, so long as we acted in time in the end.
    You didn't act in time, you were too late. Now you'll need a bigger lockdown that you should have.
    Exactly. We had more warning than most countries and a good initial response in the form of contact tracking. But then we blew it and will pay the price.
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    BalrogBalrog Posts: 207
    Alistair said:

    Private Landlords are going to be first up against the wall when the revolution comes. And when they grovel and ask why them they will be slreninded of how they acted during the corona virus.

    Some of the emails and tweets I've seen I've had to quadruple check to make sure they are not parodies. The callusesness is beyond appalling.

    I suspect that depends on the landlord. If asked by a tenant in current
    SandraMc said:

    The government is going to have to sort out supermarket deliveries for those self-isolating. Tesco's delivery slots are booked up 2 weeks in advance and so are click and collect.

    I know there are other supermarkets but Waitrose isn't taking new registrations.

    Or people set up volunteer groups to home deliver to people that need it
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    TOPPING said:

    IanB2 said:

    Tonight's welding evening class cancelled for the foreseeable future as the college is closed to students from 5pm onwards. I was making a bit of a bourach of my project so every cloud and all that.

    You could offer to give your torch one last outing by sealing the college doors?
    My inept, wet liberal MIG welding would be certain not to do the totalitarian job.
    I imagine you must watch The Full Monty with a new, informed sensitivity.
    Thanks! Haven't watched that film in years, something to stick on whilst WFH waiting for the Skype'O'Shite connection to work
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,776
    IanB2 said:

    Is there a book on when marshal law is implemented?

    I'm not joking either.

    You’re not spelling either. Are you a republican senator?
    https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1239674274631294977
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,026

    Is there a book on when marshal law is implemented?

    I'm not joking either.

    Widespread desertions will make that impossible. If it's getting to that stage entire units will disappear with their weapons. I.e. exactly what happened to the Iraqi army.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    kinabalu said:

    One of the lessons from the global financial crisis is that concerns about moral hazard have less than zero relevance right now.

    The core requirement will be to pay huge numbers of people a living wage for doing nothing. Not sure what the best mechanism will be for that. It has to be done, but it will take government debt in many countries to astronomical levels, and there must be risk that this will become untenable if China slumps and bond markets malfunction. If the consequence is then money printing on a colossal scale there is a further risk of rampant inflation. The sort of inflation that destroys societies and leads to civil disorder.
    Just what is the practical mechanism for doing that? Those in greatest need will be the ones without bank accounts. And long queues as folk collect their "free money"* - how does that fit with best practice on virus control?

    * hereafter, the Boris Bung.....
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited March 2020
    At the end, the Italian Professor basically saying in a round about way they will end up with higher mortality rates of those in ICU than the Chinese experience.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX49P1iuqPw
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,370
    JM1 said:

    It's going to get scary. Tesco in Loughborough stripped. Sainsbury in Melton the same. It's only day one!

    My sister-in-law in Switzerland observed the same. But it calmed down very quickly, and I see no reason why that would not be the same here...
    Once all the panicking Eadrics fill their cupboards, it must settle down. Provided the food keeps on coming.

    What won’t settle down so quickly, until the supermarkets sort it out, is the collapse of many of their websites and the inability to meet the immense demand for home delivery.
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    BalrogBalrog Posts: 207
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Alistair said:

    Private Landlords are going to be first up against the wall when the revolution comes. And when they grovel and ask why them they will be slreninded of how they acted during the corona virus.

    Some of the emails and tweets I've seen I've had to quadruple check to make sure they are not parodies. The callusesness is beyond appalling.

    Landlords have to make payments to banks, their tenants have to make payments to landlords, their employers have to make payments to tenants...

    Why should everyone else get bailed out except for them?
    Because they don’t deserve it?
    If we're going to decide that only the 'deserving' should get government money in a unprecedented national crisis, then there's a lot of people who might end up on a very sticky wicket...
    Why do landlords have to make payments to banks? They could sell the properties and repay the loans.
    All at once, in current conditions ?
    That sounds like one of those systemic risks I mentioned below...
    And who is going to buy? Good luck getting a mortgage if you arent working. Fire sales are only good for cash buyers
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,045
    Dura_Ace said:

    Is there a book on when marshal law is implemented?

    I'm not joking either.

    Widespread desertions will make that impossible. If it's getting to that stage entire units will disappear with their weapons. I.e. exactly what happened to the Iraqi army.
    Something similar with the British in Ireland in 1913.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,312

    Dunno, but it will be associated with the grimmest period of British History in most people's lives.
    They might not want a reminder of that.

    The last prolonged period of "All Pull Together, Community Trumps Individual" led to a Labour landslide. So ...
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    eekeek Posts: 25,020
    edited March 2020
    Balrog said:

    Alistair said:

    Private Landlords are going to be first up against the wall when the revolution comes. And when they grovel and ask why them they will be slreninded of how they acted during the corona virus.

    Some of the emails and tweets I've seen I've had to quadruple check to make sure they are not parodies. The callusesness is beyond appalling.

    I suspect that depends on the landlord. If asked by a tenant in current
    SandraMc said:

    The government is going to have to sort out supermarket deliveries for those self-isolating. Tesco's delivery slots are booked up 2 weeks in advance and so are click and collect.

    I know there are other supermarkets but Waitrose isn't taking new registrations.

    Or people set up volunteer groups to home deliver to people that need it
    Yep - we will be doing any shopping our next day neighbour (cancer) and the m-i-l need. There are a couple of other OAPs we need to check on but I will do that later.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,119
    Cyclefree said:
    I think "stimulus" is the wrong language, because the aim isn't to get the economy moving, but to allow it to partially stop.
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    nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453

    rcs1000 said:

    I forecast:

    £1,000/month to all British residents for three months. (Cost £210bn)

    Plus additional "business support payments" to ensure firms don't shutter. (Cost £100bn)

    How do we exclude people like me who are going to go on getting paid? Or do I get a bung too? If so, the likes of amazon and B&Q are in for a good year.
    And what about E.U citizens that have right to settle here now.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. B, what's the ETA on Biden getting the nod officially if he does well in the next contest(s)?
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    SandraMc said:

    From my niece in Elgin

    World gone crazy i tell ya. Riots at Aldi this morning when the delivery lorry arrived apparently! People trying get on lorry to get food 😫

    The government needs to sort out food deliveries to those self-isolating.
    No they don't. They lied about meeting with the supermarkets. Then met and told them to get on with it, then told the press that tried and tested contingency plans were in place. Which turns out to be "more online shops" which none of supermarkets can do.

    We will need the army distributing food. We'll be waiting a while.
    If we deployed every serviceman and woman we have, we have about 200,000 people. Allow for sickness and shift patterns, and you get down to 40,000 if you’re lucky. Probably less given the extra sickness challenge at the minute. How many tasks do we have for the military? We need to choose wisely. I think deliveries need to be volunteers.
    I refer you to the pensioner shot in the head by a BB Gun in Stockton...
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    nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited March 2020
    JM1 said:

    Is there a book on when marshal law is implemented?

    I'm not joking either.

    This is an over-reaction, surely? They haven't had to do this in Italy or Spain, so why would that be necessary here???
    No not marshall aw but there are military police on the streets in big cities helping out. Spain has over double the number of police officers that the UK has so it’s additional resource. There is evidence, again in the larger cities of panic buying, am off shortly to do some shopping. There is, I think, a greater respect for authority out here and a willingness to comply with the law and authorities after all its for our own good.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,776

    Mr. B, what's the ETA on Biden getting the nod officially if he does well in the next contest(s)?

    Like everything else at the moment, uncertain.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,509
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Is there a book on when marshal law is implemented?

    I'm not joking either.

    You’re not spelling either. Are you a republican senator?
    https://twitter.com/marcorubio/status/1239674274631294977
    Hahaha, that's a brilliant way for him to get in on the joke.
This discussion has been closed.