People on Twitter, the Web or activist journalists think this is a game. Make the government look bad and you win.
No. Discredit the chief medical officer and chief scientist and you kill evidence based policy. That way lies chaos and death. It’s not a game. It’s pathetic and dangerous and should be called out.
If you hate Boris because of Brexit and are prepared to go for him because of that, have the decency to say it. This is too important to dick around.
Agreed.
Although TBF up until a few weeks ago, our PM thought that politics was a game, too.
Watching that first press briefing in No 10 with Boris between the CMO and CSO it was clear he knew it wasn’t a game. No PM would want to be on the spot for this one. One thing I come back to is that the PM, Sturgeon and others HAVE to do what their medical advisors say or the press will find out. Therefore Boris HAS to act on the advice. If you think otherwise then you’re an idiot
No, it isn't. And constantly repeating it doesn't make it true.
And constantly leaping to its defence every time someone has the temerity to criticise it doesn't make the Government right.
There are some genuine criticisms from the experts in this. The WHO do not like the idea the UK have decided to abandon the idea of mass testing. This is legitimate to ask the government why this change in strategy.
My friend (Who we're doing the horses for at the moment) has
Dry cough, fever, recent contact with someone from Italy.
Not tested. Surely that's wrong ? I mean 99% it's a positive result but without the test there's no definite info for for instance the local school where their youngest kid went to to make decisions with the most knowledge.
Indeed. On television last week was a chap who'd flown in from an Italian hotspot and was surprised there were no tests on landing.
Herd mentality: it used to be said by purchasing managers in the 80s that "no-one got sacked for choosing IBM" (re desktops) even though they were much poorer value for money than the alternatives. Your argument is like that.
But yes, Boris and the boffins must persuade Joe Public about the policy. Fortunately he has time on his hands, electorally speaking. The Mediterranean policy of trying to eradicate by shut-down may be intended to look like decisive action now because the electoral ballot box is more imminent for them, but it could well be seen as inadequate in the medium term when successive waves of the epidemic wash over them.
Re the Med countries: this isn't about them trying to look decisive, they really don't have any choice. Once you have more than 3,000 cases in the Province of Bergamo (pop 1.1m), and your intensive care units are overloaded, then you have to shut everything down.
True, but there is a push to get us to follow them - trying to put a lid on it by quarantining whole cities/countries with travel restrictions, closing schools restaurants etc. That is a bad idea.
Does anyone have a decent resource (I’ve been relying on Wikipedia) as to the Chinese response OUTSIDE the Wuhan and Hubei epicentre? Very crudely, if we regard Italy as Europe’s Hubei, then the experience of the rest of the country must be instructive to the rest of us.
(If Brexiteers prefer we can be Japan or Taiwan in this analogy).
No, but just wanted everyone to be aware that China's Tibet province has had less than 10 cases.
Now, it's very very thinly populated, and has high elevation, but it's interesting none the less.
No, it isn't. And constantly repeating it doesn't make it true.
And constantly leaping to its defence every time someone has the temerity to criticise it doesn't make the Government right.
There are some genuine criticisms from the experts in this. The WHO do not like the idea the UK have decided to abandon the idea of mass testing. This is legitimate to ask the government why this change in strategy.
My friend (Who we're doing the horses for at the moment) has
Dry cough, fever, recent contact with someone from Italy.
Not tested. Surely that's wrong ? I mean 99% it's a positive result but without the test there's no definite info for for instance the local school where their youngest kid went to to make decisions with the most knowledge.
If he has only just got the symptoms, he could easily test negative even if he has the virus, and would therefore be told to self isolate whatever the result of the test might be.
It has become shorthand for “I am indoors”. Like people who diet between meals.
No, it isn't. And constantly repeating it doesn't make it true.
And constantly leaping to its defence every time someone has the temerity to criticise it doesn't make the Government right.
There are some genuine criticisms from the experts in this. The WHO do not like the idea the UK have decided to abandon the idea of mass testing. This is legitimate to ask the government why this change in strategy.
My friend (Who we're doing the horses for at the moment) has
Dry cough, fever, recent contact with someone from Italy.
Not tested. Surely that's wrong ? I mean 99% it's a positive result but without the test there's no definite info for for instance the local school where their youngest kid went to to make decisions with the most knowledge.
Indeed. On television last week was a chap who'd flown in from an Italian hotspot and was surprised there were no tests on landing.
There was at that time no real time test. What are they suppose to do, stop 10,000 of people coming through and test every single one and tell them in about 2-3 days we will be able to tell you if you are positive?
There isn't the capacity to do it and you think all those people will just stand in line for several hours while they are processed?
The goal was on finding new cases and firefighting them so they didn't get a Northern Italy situation. From reports, they managed to put out fires in places like Brighton, which could have easily exploded.
Internet noise aside, the two most worrying conversations I had today were with seventy year old who don’t see themselves as at risk. They are fit and healthy, but because of this they are missing the point they they are septuagenarians. We all need to help land the point.
They are adults with more experience of life than their children and as capable of assessing risks. You don't need to "land the point"! They could probably put you right.
No, it isn't. And constantly repeating it doesn't make it true.
And constantly leaping to its defence every time someone has the temerity to criticise it doesn't make the Government right.
There are some genuine criticisms from the experts in this. The WHO do not like the idea the UK have decided to abandon the idea of mass testing. This is legitimate to ask the government why this change in strategy.
My friend (Who we're doing the horses for at the moment) has
Dry cough, fever, recent contact with someone from Italy.
Not tested. Surely that's wrong ? I mean 99% it's a positive result but without the test there's no definite info for for instance the local school where their youngest kid went to to make decisions with the most knowledge.
Indeed. On television last week was a chap who'd flown in from an Italian hotspot and was surprised there were no tests on landing.
There was at that time no real time test. What are they suppose to do, stop 10,000 of people coming through and test every single one and tell them in about 2-3 days we will be able to tell you if you are positive?
There isn't the capacity to do it and you think all those people will just stand in line for several hours while they are processed?
The goal was on finding new cases and firefighting them so they didn't get a Northern Italy situation. From reports, they managed to put out fires in places like Brighton, which could have easily exploded.
Some passengers were shown on the news waiting up to 8 hours on landing at one US airport (can't remember which). Throngs of passengers some of whom may be infected or carriers in very close proximity...
Herd mentality: it used to be said by purchasing managers in the 80s that "no-one got sacked for choosing IBM" (re desktops) even though they were much poorer value for money than the alternatives. Your argument is like that.
But yes, Boris and the boffins must persuade Joe Public about the policy. Fortunately he has time on his hands, electorally speaking. The Mediterranean policy of trying to eradicate by shut-down may be intended to look like decisive action now because the electoral ballot box is more imminent for them, but it could well be seen as inadequate in the medium term when successive waves of the epidemic wash over them.
Re the Med countries: this isn't about them trying to look decisive, they really don't have any choice. Once you have more than 3,000 cases in the Province of Bergamo (pop 1.1m), and your intensive care units are overloaded, then you have to shut everything down.
True, but there is a push to get us to follow them - trying to put a lid on it by quarantining whole cities/countries with travel restrictions, closing schools restaurants etc. That is a bad idea.
I wonder how many of the people demanding lockdowns have themselves self-isolated or even bother to wash their hands properly.
I have been washing my hands furiously for weeks, indeed to the point that I have bought the first hand cream of my life, to restore them each night for another days work.
I cannot self isolate, so am mending my ways on diet, exercise and alcohol so as to be in the fittest state when I catch it. I am rather hoping that health workers will get some ICU priority if needed.
No, it isn't. And constantly repeating it doesn't make it true.
And constantly leaping to its defence every time someone has the temerity to criticise it doesn't make the Government right.
There are some genuine criticisms from the experts in this. The WHO do not like the idea the UK have decided to abandon the idea of mass testing. This is legitimate to ask the government why this change in strategy.
My friend (Who we're doing the horses for at the moment) has
Dry cough, fever, recent contact with someone from Italy.
Not tested. Surely that's wrong ? I mean 99% it's a positive result but without the test there's no definite info for for instance the local school where their youngest kid went to to make decisions with the most knowledge.
Indeed. On television last week was a chap who'd flown in from an Italian hotspot and was surprised there were no tests on landing.
There was at that time no real time test. What are they suppose to do, stop 10,000 of people coming through and test every single one and tell them in about 2-3 days we will be able to tell you if you are positive?
There isn't the capacity to do it and you think all those people will just stand in line for several hours while they are processed?
The goal was on finding new cases and firefighting them so they didn't get a Northern Italy situation. From reports, they managed to put out fires in places like Brighton, which could have easily exploded.
Some passengers were shown on the news waiting up to 8 hours on landing at one US airport (can't remember which). Throngs of passengers some of whom may be infected or carriers in very close proximity...
You sure that wasn't archival footage? Eight hours is fast for the US border.
No, it isn't. And constantly repeating it doesn't make it true.
And constantly leaping to its defence every time someone has the temerity to criticise it doesn't make the Government right.
There are some genuine criticisms from the experts in this. The WHO do not like the idea the UK have decided to abandon the idea of mass testing. This is legitimate to ask the government why this change in strategy.
My friend (Who we're doing the horses for at the moment) has
Dry cough, fever, recent contact with someone from Italy.
Not tested. Surely that's wrong ? I mean 99% it's a positive result but without the test there's no definite info for for instance the local school where their youngest kid went to to make decisions with the most knowledge.
Indeed. On television last week was a chap who'd flown in from an Italian hotspot and was surprised there were no tests on landing.
There was at that time no real time test. What are they suppose to do, stop 10,000 of people coming through and test every single one and tell them in about 2-3 days we will be able to tell you if you are positive?
There isn't the capacity to do it and you think all those people will just stand in line for several hours while they are processed?
The goal was on finding new cases and firefighting them so they didn't get a Northern Italy situation. From reports, they managed to put out fires in places like Brighton, which could have easily exploded.
Some passengers were shown on the news waiting up to 8 hours on landing at one US airport (can't remember which). Throngs of passengers some of whom may be infected or carriers in very close proximity...
Exactly, it is a terrible idea to just cause an even bigger crowd and have them all circulate for hours...it is why conferences appear to be a particular vector of transmission.
The economist (and paper reviewer) Ruth Lea was on Five Live just now and says she will refuse to self-isolate completely, and would prefer to end up in Holloway jail if they make it compulsory.
Nothing like trying it a second time, The Donald must be happy gets to refinance all his gold towers on the cheap.
Presumably this will mean a strong opening on the markets in the morning though it wreaks of desperation and sounds a bit like what Draghi had to do to protect the Euro.
Trump must be aware a failing economy undermines his chances in the autumn so he is throwing all kinds of stimulus at it now.
Herd mentality: it used to be said by purchasing managers in the 80s that "no-one got sacked for choosing IBM" (re desktops) even though they were much poorer value for money than the alternatives. Your argument is like that.
But yes, Boris and the boffins must persuade Joe Public about the policy. Fortunately he has time on his hands, electorally speaking. The Mediterranean policy of trying to eradicate by shut-down may be intended to look like decisive action now because the electoral ballot box is more imminent for them, but it could well be seen as inadequate in the medium term when successive waves of the epidemic wash over them.
Re the Med countries: this isn't about them trying to look decisive, they really don't have any choice. Once you have more than 3,000 cases in the Province of Bergamo (pop 1.1m), and your intensive care units are overloaded, then you have to shut everything down.
True, but there is a push to get us to follow them - trying to put a lid on it by quarantining whole cities/countries with travel restrictions, closing schools restaurants etc. That is a bad idea.
I wonder how many of the people demanding lockdowns have themselves self-isolated or even bother to wash their hands properly.
I have been washing my hands furiously for weeks, indeed to the point that I have bought the first hand cream of my life, to restore them each night for another days work.
I cannot self isolate, so am mending my ways on diet, exercise and alcohol so as to be in the fittest state when I catch it. I am rather hoping that health workers will get some ICU priority if needed.
The skin on my hands is really badly cracked...obviously all this washing and the fact as my father tells me that I have never done a proper days work in my life to harden them up.
No, it isn't. And constantly repeating it doesn't make it true.
And constantly leaping to its defence every time someone has the temerity to criticise it doesn't make the Government right.
There are some genuine criticisms from the experts in this. The WHO do not like the idea the UK have decided to abandon the idea of mass testing. This is legitimate to ask the government why this change in strategy.
My friend (Who we're doing the horses for at the moment) has
Dry cough, fever, recent contact with someone from Italy.
Not tested. Surely that's wrong ? I mean 99% it's a positive result but without the test there's no definite info for for instance the local school where their youngest kid went to to make decisions with the most knowledge.
Indeed. On television last week was a chap who'd flown in from an Italian hotspot and was surprised there were no tests on landing.
They're currently trying to get 30,000 people back from the Alps. At the 2,000 to 3,000 tests they seem to be performing per day, that's nearly two weeks just to get through that batch, let alone anything more interesting from in country or any other returnees from the rest of the world
Fed just announced interest rate of 0% to 0.25%. $700 billion of QE. Forward guidance of low interest rates for foreseeable future. They are throwing everything at the wall. Economic data must be bad.
I’m a bit confused by this new show that the BBC are putting on every day called ‘Trump Press Conference’ or something,
The plot just keeps going round in circles, the lead character is badly written and the supporting cast just stand around. The dialogue sounds as though it was written by a three year old and the camerawork is shockingly static. The guy with the grey hair must be one of the worst actors I’ve seen, could his delivery get any more boring? They didn’t even broadcast it to the end today. Who on earth commissioned this rubbish?
I’m a bit confused by this new show that the BBC are putting on every day called ‘Trump Press Conference’ or something,
The plot just keeps going round in circles, the lead character is badly written and the supporting cast just stand around. The dialogue sounds as though it was written by a three year old and the camerawork is shockingly static. The guy with the grey hair must be one of the worst actors I’ve seen, could his delivery get any more boring? They didn’t even broadcast it to the end today. Who on earth commissioned this rubbish?
No, it isn't. And constantly repeating it doesn't make it true.
And constantly leaping to its defence every time someone has the temerity to criticise it doesn't make the Government right.
There are some genuine criticisms from the experts in this. The WHO do not like the idea the UK have decided to abandon the idea of mass testing. This is legitimate to ask the government why this change in strategy.
My friend (Who we're doing the horses for at the moment) has
Dry cough, fever, recent contact with someone from Italy.
Not tested. Surely that's wrong ? I mean 99% it's a positive result but without the test there's no definite info for for instance the local school where their youngest kid went to to make decisions with the most knowledge.
Indeed. On television last week was a chap who'd flown in from an Italian hotspot and was surprised there were no tests on landing.
There was at that time no real time test. What are they suppose to do, stop 10,000 of people coming through and test every single one and tell them in about 2-3 days we will be able to tell you if you are positive?
There isn't the capacity to do it and you think all those people will just stand in line for several hours while they are processed?
The goal was on finding new cases and firefighting them so they didn't get a Northern Italy situation. From reports, they managed to put out fires in places like Brighton, which could have easily exploded.
Some passengers were shown on the news waiting up to 8 hours on landing at one US airport (can't remember which). Throngs of passengers some of whom may be infected or carriers in very close proximity...
At Chicago O'Hare and Dallas-Fort Worth airports, passengers reported long queues as travellers returning from Europe waited to be screened as part of measures to combat coronavirus.
The US administration has imposed a ban on non-Americans travelling from the 26 European countries in the Schengen free movement zone. The ban will be extended to the UK and Ireland as of Tuesday.
US citizens are allowed to return but face screening.
Let me interject with some good news for a moment.
All the evidence from Hubei is that when you clamp down on social interaction (whether through voluntary distancing or more extensive "shut downs"), new infections plummet. This takes a week or so to show up in the headline numbers, but it's almost certainly the case that new infections are falling in the UK, Italy, France, Germany and Spain. And I have little doubt that the US will follow a week or so behind.
Now, this still means there's a week of new cases rising happening in Europe. But the 3x multiplier of people infected is almost certainly below 1x right now thanks to the various measures that have been taken.
Removing restrictions is going to be a gradual thing, so we can make sure that hotspots are identified, and people traced and treated. It will take some time to get back to normal. But it all probability the peak of infections has already been passed. We just won't see it for a couple of weeks yet.
Herd mentality: it used to be said by purchasing managers in the 80s that "no-one got sacked for choosing IBM" (re desktops) even though they were much poorer value for money than the alternatives. Your argument is like that.
But yes, Boris and the boffins must persuade Joe Public about the policy. Fortunately he has time on his hands, electorally speaking. The Mediterranean policy of trying to eradicate by shut-down may be intended to look like decisive action now because the electoral ballot box is more imminent for them, but it could well be seen as inadequate in the medium term when successive waves of the epidemic wash over them.
Re the Med countries: this isn't about them trying to look decisive, they really don't have any choice. Once you have more than 3,000 cases in the Province of Bergamo (pop 1.1m), and your intensive care units are overloaded, then you have to shut everything down.
True, but there is a push to get us to follow them - trying to put a lid on it by quarantining whole cities/countries with travel restrictions, closing schools restaurants etc. That is a bad idea.
I wonder how many of the people demanding lockdowns have themselves self-isolated or even bother to wash their hands properly.
I have been washing my hands furiously for weeks, indeed to the point that I have bought the first hand cream of my life, to restore them each night for another days work.
I cannot self isolate, so am mending my ways on diet, exercise and alcohol so as to be in the fittest state when I catch it. I am rather hoping that health workers will get some ICU priority if needed.
Herd mentality: it used to be said by purchasing managers in the 80s that "no-one got sacked for choosing IBM" (re desktops) even though they were much poorer value for money than the alternatives. Your argument is like that.
But yes, Boris and the boffins must persuade Joe Public about the policy. Fortunately he has time on his hands, electorally speaking. The Mediterranean policy of trying to eradicate by shut-down may be intended to look like decisive action now because the electoral ballot box is more imminent for them, but it could well be seen as inadequate in the medium term when successive waves of the epidemic wash over them.
Re the Med countries: this isn't about them trying to look decisive, they really don't have any choice. Once you have more than 3,000 cases in the Province of Bergamo (pop 1.1m), and your intensive care units are overloaded, then you have to shut everything down.
True, but there is a push to get us to follow them - trying to put a lid on it by quarantining whole cities/countries with travel restrictions, closing schools restaurants etc. That is a bad idea.
I wonder how many of the people demanding lockdowns have themselves self-isolated or even bother to wash their hands properly.
I have been washing my hands furiously for weeks, indeed to the point that I have bought the first hand cream of my life, to restore them each night for another days work.
I cannot self isolate, so am mending my ways on diet, exercise and alcohol so as to be in the fittest state when I catch it. I am rather hoping that health workers will get some ICU priority if needed.
The skin on my hands is really badly cracked...obviously all this washing and the fact as my father tells me that I have never done a proper days work in my life to harden them up.
Does anyone have a decent resource (I’ve been relying on Wikipedia) as to the Chinese response OUTSIDE the Wuhan and Hubei epicentre? Very crudely, if we regard Italy as Europe’s Hubei, then the experience of the rest of the country must be instructive to the rest of us.
(If Brexiteers prefer we can be Japan or Taiwan in this analogy).
This is really important, and could help shed any light on whether the chinese government are fiddling the figures either for positive tests, potentially more favourable for us if it means more asymptomatic cases, or more symptomatic or deadly cases, which would be worse, outside Hubei.
People on Twitter, the Web or activist journalists think this is a game. Make the government look bad and you win.
No. Discredit the chief medical officer and chief scientist and you kill evidence based policy. That way lies chaos and death. It’s not a game. It’s pathetic and dangerous and should be called out.
If you hate Boris because of Brexit and are prepared to go for him because of that, have the decency to say it. This is too important to dick around.
Agreed.
Although TBF up until a few weeks ago, our PM thought that politics was a game, too.
Watching that first press briefing in No 10 with Boris between the CMO and CSO it was clear he knew it wasn’t a game. No PM would want to be on the spot for this one. One thing I come back to is that the PM, Sturgeon and others HAVE to do what their medical advisors say or the press will find out. Therefore Boris HAS to act on the advice. If you think otherwise then you’re an idiot
I agree with that. Boris might be many different things to different people but one thing hr isn't, is an idiot.
Does anyone have a decent resource (I’ve been relying on Wikipedia) as to the Chinese response OUTSIDE the Wuhan and Hubei epicentre? Very crudely, if we regard Italy as Europe’s Hubei, then the experience of the rest of the country must be instructive to the rest of us.
(If Brexiteers prefer we can be Japan or Taiwan in this analogy).
This is really important, and could help shed any light on whether the chinese government are fiddling the figures either for positive tests, potentially more favourable for us if it means more asymptomatic cases, or more symptomatic or deadly cases, which would be worse, outside Hubei,
It is clear the UK government don't believe the figures.
I’m a bit confused by this new show that the BBC are putting on every day called ‘Trump Press Conference’ or something,
The plot just keeps going round in circles, the lead character is badly written and the supporting cast just stand around. The dialogue sounds as though it was written by a three year old and the camerawork is shockingly static. The guy with the grey hair must be one of the worst actors I’ve seen, could his delivery get any more boring? They didn’t even broadcast it to the end today. Who on earth commissioned this rubbish?
I don't know why they keep broadcasting it. If there are any bits of it which hold up under mild scrutiny just tell us those a few hours later.
Let me interject with some good news for a moment.
All the evidence from Hubei is that when you clamp down on social interaction (whether through voluntary distancing or more extensive "shut downs"), new infections plummet. This takes a week or so to show up in the headline numbers, but it's almost certainly the case that new infections are falling in the UK, Italy, France, Germany and Spain. And I have little doubt that the US will follow a week or so behind.
Now, this still means there's a week of new cases rising happening in Europe. But the 3x multiplier of people infected is almost certainly below 1x right now thanks to the various measures that have been taken.
Removing restrictions is going to be a gradual thing, so we can make sure that hotspots are identified, and people traced and treated. It will take some time to get back to normal. But it all probability the peak of infections has already been passed. We just won't see it for a couple of weeks yet.
I largely agree, people are distancing even without proper government instruction, so the peak is probably 4-6 weeks away here, perhaps 2-3 in Lombardia.
First cases amongst staff in my hospital reported via WhatsApp. High patient contact specialities too.
Let me interject with some good news for a moment.
All the evidence from Hubei is that when you clamp down on social interaction (whether through voluntary distancing or more extensive "shut downs"), new infections plummet. This takes a week or so to show up in the headline numbers, but it's almost certainly the case that new infections are falling in the UK, Italy, France, Germany and Spain. And I have little doubt that the US will follow a week or so behind.
Now, this still means there's a week of new cases rising happening in Europe. But the 3x multiplier of people infected is almost certainly below 1x right now thanks to the various measures that have been taken.
Removing restrictions is going to be a gradual thing, so we can make sure that hotspots are identified, and people traced and treated. It will take some time to get back to normal. But it all probability the peak of infections has already been passed. We just won't see it for a couple of weeks yet.
That would be very good if true but why do you think that new infections and already falling in the UK ?
Possibly - On Saturday, the total cases went up by over 300, today the number went up by 240 or so.
The number of new infections has trended up for over two weeks but with some occasional falls.
And that is also dependent upon the number of tests and who are being tested.
Not to mention the number of people who are being infected who are asymptomatic.
Does anyone have a decent resource (I’ve been relying on Wikipedia) as to the Chinese response OUTSIDE the Wuhan and Hubei epicentre? Very crudely, if we regard Italy as Europe’s Hubei, then the experience of the rest of the country must be instructive to the rest of us.
(If Brexiteers prefer we can be Japan or Taiwan in this analogy).
No, but just wanted everyone to be aware that China's Tibet province has had less than 10 cases.
Now, it's very very thinly populated, and has high elevation, but it's interesting none the less.
Sorry, make that just ONE CASE in Tibet (who recovered).
It's the word. "Herd". What image does it conjure up in your mind? Perhaps one of sheep. Sheep are idiots. Or cattle. Cattle get slaughtered.
Herds are culled and most people do not want to be part of a cull. The very idea strikes fear into the hearts of the unwashed, loo-roll hoarding masses, who are suddenly made acutely aware of their own individual unimportance.
The question is what you re-brand the concept as. It's effectively a lottery where 97% of the population win, but sadly "national lottery" is already taken.
Community Immunity.
Nice, caring idea and it rhymes so would make a good song.
Herd mentality: it used to be said by purchasing managers in the 80s that "no-one got sacked for choosing IBM" (re desktops) even though they were much poorer value for money than the alternatives. Your argument is like that.
But yes, Boris and the boffins must persuade Joe Public about the policy. Fortunately he has time on his hands, electorally speaking. The Mediterranean policy of trying to eradicate by shut-down may be intended to look like decisive action now because the electoral ballot box is more imminent for them, but it could well be seen as inadequate in the medium term when successive waves of the epidemic wash over them.
Re the Med countries: this isn't about them trying to look decisive, they really don't have any choice. Once you have more than 3,000 cases in the Province of Bergamo (pop 1.1m), and your intensive care units are overloaded, then you have to shut everything down.
True, but there is a push to get us to follow them - trying to put a lid on it by quarantining whole cities/countries with travel restrictions, closing schools restaurants etc. That is a bad idea.
I’m a bit confused by this new show that the BBC are putting on every day called ‘Trump Press Conference’ or something,
The plot just keeps going round in circles, the lead character is badly written and the supporting cast just stand around. The dialogue sounds as though it was written by a three year old and the camerawork is shockingly static. The guy with the grey hair must be one of the worst actors I’ve seen, could his delivery get any more boring? They didn’t even broadcast it to the end today. Who on earth commissioned this rubbish?
I don't know why they keep broadcasting it. If there are any bits of it which hold up under mild scrutiny just tell us those a few hours later.
I suspect they are broadcasting it mainly for potential entertainment value - the not exactly remote chance that Trump will say something truly stupid (again).
Does anyone have a decent resource (I’ve been relying on Wikipedia) as to the Chinese response OUTSIDE the Wuhan and Hubei epicentre? Very crudely, if we regard Italy as Europe’s Hubei, then the experience of the rest of the country must be instructive to the rest of us.
(If Brexiteers prefer we can be Japan or Taiwan in this analogy).
This is really important, and could help shed any light on whether the chinese government are fiddling the figures either for positive tests, potentially more favourable for us if it means more asymptomatic cases, or more symptomatic or deadly cases, which would be worse, outside Hubei,
It is clear the UK government don't believe the figures.
The World Health Organisation do.
There is also evidence from mortality in those places, and Hong Kong, Singapore, etc.
France is also moving towards a herd immunity approach as without building up immunity amongst the able bodied a second wave in the winter will put huge pressure on the health service, even if this wave of Covid 19 slows down about June.
Let me interject with some good news for a moment.
All the evidence from Hubei is that when you clamp down on social interaction (whether through voluntary distancing or more extensive "shut downs"), new infections plummet. This takes a week or so to show up in the headline numbers, but it's almost certainly the case that new infections are falling in the UK, Italy, France, Germany and Spain. And I have little doubt that the US will follow a week or so behind.
Now, this still means there's a week of new cases rising happening in Europe. But the 3x multiplier of people infected is almost certainly below 1x right now thanks to the various measures that have been taken.
Removing restrictions is going to be a gradual thing, so we can make sure that hotspots are identified, and people traced and treated. It will take some time to get back to normal. But it all probability the peak of infections has already been passed. We just won't see it for a couple of weeks yet.
I largely agree, people are distancing even without proper government instruction, so the peak is probably 4-6 weeks away here, perhaps 2-3 in Lombardia.
First cases amongst staff in my hospital reported via WhatsApp. High patient contact specialities too.
Sons girlfriend is a nurse - its going through staff here too.
She awaits the result of a test as she is showing classic symptoms - her first concern.... her patients
Herd mentality: it used to be said by purchasing managers in the 80s that "no-one got sacked for choosing IBM" (re desktops) even though they were much poorer value for money than the alternatives. Your argument is like that.
But yes, Boris and the boffins must persuade Joe Public about the policy. Fortunately he has time on his hands, electorally speaking. The Mediterranean policy of trying to eradicate by shut-down may be intended to look like decisive action now because the electoral ballot box is more imminent for them, but it could well be seen as inadequate in the medium term when successive waves of the epidemic wash over them.
Re the Med countries: this isn't about them trying to look decisive, they really don't have any choice. Once you have more than 3,000 cases in the Province of Bergamo (pop 1.1m), and your intensive care units are overloaded, then you have to shut everything down.
True, but there is a push to get us to follow them - trying to put a lid on it by quarantining whole cities/countries with travel restrictions, closing schools restaurants etc. That is a bad idea.
I wonder how many of the people demanding lockdowns have themselves self-isolated or even bother to wash their hands properly.
I have been washing my hands furiously for weeks, indeed to the point that I have bought the first hand cream of my life, to restore them each night for another days work.
I cannot self isolate, so am mending my ways on diet, exercise and alcohol so as to be in the fittest state when I catch it. I am rather hoping that health workers will get some ICU priority if needed.
The skin on my hands is really badly cracked...obviously all this washing and the fact as my father tells me that I have never done a proper days work in my life to harden them up.
Norwegian Formula hand cream is the tops.
Yep used it for years. Doing Archaeology work means washing hands a huge amount even when you have been wearing gloves. For a long time it was quite painful much of the time until someone recommended Norwegian Formula. I know it sounds like an advert but it really does work wonders.
Quick question re Italy and Spain lockdowns: do they have a list of jobs which are excluded? Health workers and emergency services obviously must be exempt but what about all those involved in formulating and executing policy? Also utility workers, farmers, vets, I could go on...?
In a way, the virus has come at a bad time. If it were September, the easy decision - shutting everything down would be the right thing to do. Instead, the powers that be need to decide how much we need to use the summer that is approaching.
From what I see of Australia and Brazil, and other places in Latin America, I cannot see a British summer saving us.
Almost all the Australian cases came from those who had travelled abroad
Does anyone have a decent resource (I’ve been relying on Wikipedia) as to the Chinese response OUTSIDE the Wuhan and Hubei epicentre? Very crudely, if we regard Italy as Europe’s Hubei, then the experience of the rest of the country must be instructive to the rest of us.
(If Brexiteers prefer we can be Japan or Taiwan in this analogy).
This is really important, and could help shed any light on whether the chinese government are fiddling the figures either for positive tests, potentially more favourable for us if it means more asymptomatic cases, or more symptomatic or deadly cases, which would be worse, outside Hubei,
It is clear the UK government don't believe the figures.
The World Health Organisation do.
There is also evidence from mortality in those places, and Hong Kong, Singapore, etc.
I know they do, but it is clear the Western government don't, hence why UK, US, Germany, France have all made it quite clear they think 50-80% of people could get this and their strategies (well the US don't appear to have one) are based upon this scenario.
Herd mentality: it used to be said by purchasing managers in the 80s that "no-one got sacked for choosing IBM" (re desktops) even though they were much poorer value for money than the alternatives. Your argument is like that.
But yes, Boris and the boffins must persuade Joe Public about the policy. Fortunately he has time on his hands, electorally speaking. The Mediterranean policy of trying to eradicate by shut-down may be intended to look like decisive action now because the electoral ballot box is more imminent for them, but it could well be seen as inadequate in the medium term when successive waves of the epidemic wash over them.
Re the Med countries: this isn't about them trying to look decisive, they really don't have any choice. Once you have more than 3,000 cases in the Province of Bergamo (pop 1.1m), and your intensive care units are overloaded, then you have to shut everything down.
True, but there is a push to get us to follow them - trying to put a lid on it by quarantining whole cities/countries with travel restrictions, closing schools restaurants etc. That is a bad idea.
I wonder how many of the people demanding lockdowns have themselves self-isolated or even bother to wash their hands properly.
I have been washing my hands furiously for weeks, indeed to the point that I have bought the first hand cream of my life, to restore them each night for another days work.
I cannot self isolate, so am mending my ways on diet, exercise and alcohol so as to be in the fittest state when I catch it. I am rather hoping that health workers will get some ICU priority if needed.
The skin on my hands is really badly cracked...obviously all this washing and the fact as my father tells me that I have never done a proper days work in my life to harden them up.
Norwegian Formula hand cream is the tops.
Yep used it for years. Doing Archaeology work means washing hands a huge amount even when you have been wearing gloves. For a long time it was quite painful much of the time until someone recommended Norwegian Formula. I know it sounds like an advert but it really does work wonders.
Did you say you were going to be on a Channel 5 program ?
France is also moving towards a herd immunity approach as without building up immunity amongst the able bodied a second wave in the winter will put huge pressure on the health service, even if this wave of Covid 19 slows down about June.
Quick question re Italy and Spain lockdowns: do they have a list of jobs which are excluded? Health workers and emergency services obviously must be exempt but what about all those involved in formulating and executing policy? Also utility workers, farmers, vets, I could go on...?
In Italy you are allowed to go out for ‘urgent work’, food shopping, and health appointments.
The coronavirus epidemic in the UK will last until next spring and could lead to 7.9 million people being hospitalised, a leaked Public Health England document has claimed.
The document, seen by The Guardian, says as much as 80 per cent of the population could be infected, and 15 per cent hospitalised.
The briefing contrasts with Prof Chris Whitty's previous statement that the 80 per cent was a "worse case scenario", telling PHE officials that many are "expected" to contract Covid-19.
The document says the epidemic could last until spring 2021, later than originally thought.
I look forward to my usual Monday Senior Management Team meeting at work, have no idea what might be on the agenda...
My usual Monday routine to follow. Up at 5. Gym gear on, kettle on, load suitcase laptop bag and suit carrier into the car. Down to WakeyVegas, run (will be day 6 of my 5k a day challenge), then onwards to Sheffield. Weather looks decent so leave the car at work for the 3k walk to my hotel. Normal.
How many more Monday's will I be travelling down from Teesside to work in Sheffield before government says dont? And if I'm not heading to work how many of my production colleagues end up the same? At which point how quickly does our business stop being able to function and falls over...?
At the same time my 19 year old reports that his (mega complex medical conditions) mum had the ambulance out this afternoon as trouble breathing. Her blood O2 level just above their guidelines so no ride to hospital or tests or help. Have told him to call 999 again if she really is struggling. TBH I've been half expecting *something* to finish her off for a while, was hoping she could keep going through his A-Levels at least. Not that I expect his year to ever complete their A-levels now.
In a way, the virus has come at a bad time. If it were September, the easy decision - shutting everything down would be the right thing to do. Instead, the powers that be need to decide how much we need to use the summer that is approaching.
From what I see of Australia and Brazil, and other places in Latin America, I cannot see a British summer saving us.
Almost all the Australian cases came from those who had travelled abroad
Yep, same as us a couple of weeks ago.
Plenty of cases in Florida, Southern California, Central and Sourh America now, locally acquired.
France is also moving towards a herd immunity approach as without building up immunity amongst the able bodied a second wave in the winter will put huge pressure on the health service, even if this wave of Covid 19 slows down about June.
Meanwhile the government is sensibly preparing to self isolate the more vulnerable ie the elderly and those with pre existing health conditions
Two questions if I may:
1) If we are able to self-isolate large numbers in the short term and the virus returns in the winter, will said individuals have to self-isolate again as they will still have no resistance to the virus?
2) Are you advocating able bodied people actively seek those with the virus to get infected? That's how it sounds - to achieve the kind of immunity being suggested around 60% or so need to be infected. Currently we are a very long way from that. If you want to develop "herd immunity", remove all restrictions and let the virus run through the population. There will be some deaths but the vast majority will be fine for next winter. Is that Government policy?
The coronavirus epidemic in the UK will last until next spring and could lead to 7.9 million people being hospitalised, a leaked Public Health England document has claimed.
The document, seen by The Guardian, says as much as 80 per cent of the population could be infected, and 15 per cent hospitalised.
The briefing contrasts with Prof Chris Whitty's previous statement that the 80 per cent was a "worse case scenario", telling PHE officials that many are "expected" to contract Covid-19.
The document says the epidemic could last until spring 2021, later than originally thought.
FFS, the government are now going to have to waste a day firefighting over the word "expected".
My guess would be that what it actually is about is PHE have to work out a response based upon an expected 80%, as that is the upper bound that has been predicted by the models. If they made plans based on 20%, the media would be screaming but but but the upper bound is 80%.
And again, Witty and co were quite clear they said wave one was 12 weeks, but they expected multiple waves.
I f##king said the media would do this if they got the documents.
The economist (and paper reviewer) Ruth Lea was on Five Live just now and says she will refuse to self-isolate completely, and would prefer to end up in Holloway jail if they make it compulsory.
I just watched the latest episode of the very excellent Avenue 5. Lots of rich idiots stuck on a cruise ship in space. Very funny. Very black humour.
Somehow one visual effects expert manages to convince the passengers that they are really not stuck on a cruise liner in space but actually still on earth as part of a reality show. She helps as the first sucker goes into the airlock and in front of everyone dies rather horribly. She then convinces the crowd yet again this was all just visual effects and so more people do the same.
Eventually the crowd gets the message that this woman is talking bullshit and they really are in space. But not before 7 people have died.
In the real world we are seeing far too many 'experts' at the moment who are putting people's lives at risk by undermining the very carefully considered plans of the scientific and medical advisors.
In a way, the virus has come at a bad time. If it were September, the easy decision - shutting everything down would be the right thing to do. Instead, the powers that be need to decide how much we need to use the summer that is approaching.
From what I see of Australia and Brazil, and other places in Latin America, I cannot see a British summer saving us.
Almost all the Australian cases came from those who had travelled abroad
They were also really unlucky it got into a care house.
France is also moving towards a herd immunity approach as without building up immunity amongst the able bodied a second wave in the winter will put huge pressure on the health service, even if this wave of Covid 19 slows down about June.
Meanwhile the government is sensibly preparing to self isolate the more vulnerable ie the elderly and those with pre existing health conditions
Two questions if I may:
1) If we are able to self-isolate large numbers in the short term and the virus returns in the winter, will said individuals have to self-isolate again as they will still have no resistance to the virus?
2) Are you advocating able bodied people actively seek those with the virus to get infected? That's how it sounds - to achieve the kind of immunity being suggested around 60% or so need to be infected. Currently we are a very long way from that. If you want to develop "herd immunity", remove all restrictions and let the virus run through the population. There will be some deaths but the vast majority will be fine for next winter. Is that Government policy?
Good questions and I don't have answers.
But I would hope that the government would be getting more data, from this country and others, every day as to what is happening and adjust strategy as appropriate.
The reaction of the Fed today is some desperate attempt to stop the shellacking tomorrow in the markets....
I've probably saved a couple of hundred this weekend-meals out etc...but I've lost well over 100k plus plus over the last weeks- not lost really since I never had it-on investments.....
I'm struggling to see how capitalism gets through this at the minute
What the fuck were those economic forecasts a month ago thinking-it might shave China's growth by 0.5%??
This is going to fuck over the real economy...people's lives, their little businesses, their hopes and dreams...all that work....
The economist (and paper reviewer) Ruth Lea was on Five Live just now and says she will refuse to self-isolate completely, and would prefer to end up in Holloway jail if they make it compulsory.
A rather selfish attitude. I hope she has been considerate enough to have a bracelet made up saying that she doesn't want to bother with blocking a bed...
The coronavirus epidemic in the UK will last until next spring and could lead to 7.9 million people being hospitalised, a leaked Public Health England document has claimed.
The document, seen by The Guardian, says as much as 80 per cent of the population could be infected, and 15 per cent hospitalised.
The briefing contrasts with Prof Chris Whitty's previous statement that the 80 per cent was a "worse case scenario", telling PHE officials that many are "expected" to contract Covid-19.
The document says the epidemic could last until spring 2021, later than originally thought.
FFS, the government are now going to have to waste a day firefighting over the word "expected".
My guess would be that what it actually is about is PHE have to work out a response based upon an expected 80%, as that is the upper bound that has been predicted by the models. If they made plans based on 20%, the media would be screaming but but but the upper bound is 80%.
And again, Witty and co were quite clear they said wave one was 12 weeks, but they expected multiple waves.
I f##king said the media would do this if they got the documents.
If they expect multiple waves why put up a graph with a single peak? The double hump graph was for an 'Italian' approach.
Tonight, I am struggling to understand why Boris Johnson was so desperate to be Prime Minister. I get why someone like Matt Hancock chose the path he did, but Johnson is a puzzler. What was the point?
No, it isn't. And constantly repeating it doesn't make it true.
And constantly leaping to its defence every time someone has the temerity to criticise it doesn't make the Government right.
There are some genuine criticisms from the experts in this. The WHO do not like the idea the UK have decided to abandon the idea of mass testing. This is legitimate to ask the government why this change in strategy.
My friend (Who we're doing the horses for at the moment) has
Dry cough, fever, recent contact with someone from Italy.
Not tested. Surely that's wrong ? I mean 99% it's a positive result but without the test there's no definite info for for instance the local school where their youngest kid went to to make decisions with the most knowledge.
If you expect tens of thousands of people a day to contract this, at what point do you stop testing the general public and concentrate on testing at hospitals?
I am actually partly in agreement with you to the extent the message is confused and I am not sure it is the right thing to do (stopping testing). But at some point it simply becomes impractical.
In a way, the virus has come at a bad time. If it were September, the easy decision - shutting everything down would be the right thing to do. Instead, the powers that be need to decide how much we need to use the summer that is approaching.
From what I see of Australia and Brazil, and other places in Latin America, I cannot see a British summer saving us.
Almost all the Australian cases came from those who had travelled abroad
Yep, same as us a couple of weeks ago.
Plenty of cases in Florida, Southern California, Central and Sourh America now, locally acquired.
None of the top 10 countries for coronavirus cases are in Latin America, Southern Africa or Australiasia where it is currently summer
Quick question re Italy and Spain lockdowns: do they have a list of jobs which are excluded? Health workers and emergency services obviously must be exempt but what about all those involved in formulating and executing policy? Also utility workers, farmers, vets, I could go on...?
You have to submit an online form....my friend works in telecoms and he can get to his office (I think to get away from his wife to be honest...but that's another matter)
Rumour of a government announcement set for Tuesday?
What could this be?
And why wait until Tuesday? If they are planning it, they clearly have in mind what they're going to say.
Emergency legislation is being introduced to the house tomorrow, and i presume will be passed into law tomorrow or Tuesday.
Well ok that's a plausible reason, although it puzzled me that parliament didn't just sit through the weekend to get that done, as it's an emergency.
PS has somebody squared any emergency legislation with Christopher Chope so that he doesn't throw a procedural spanner in the works?
They are taking about some very very serious powers being given to the state. I imagine the legalities are far from straight forward and it is better to try and get them right rather than rush them too much.
I know they asked Ashworth to meet with them as well, so they also want to know the opposition are on board...good job Richard Burgon isn't in charge, as we would have to wait for the result of a 3 month referendum of Labour members before we would know.
Tonight, I am struggling to understand why Boris Johnson was so desperate to be Prime Minister. I get why someone like Matt Hancock chose the path he did, but Johnson is a puzzler. What was the point?
Because he thought he could do a good job. Its what all politicians think - the ones I've met anyway.
Boris doesn't dream of reading and re-gurgitating un-comprehended 10,000 pages of briefings. That doesn't mean he didn't want the job.
The coronavirus epidemic in the UK will last until next spring and could lead to 7.9 million people being hospitalised, a leaked Public Health England document has claimed.
The document, seen by The Guardian, says as much as 80 per cent of the population could be infected, and 15 per cent hospitalised.
The briefing contrasts with Prof Chris Whitty's previous statement that the 80 per cent was a "worse case scenario", telling PHE officials that many are "expected" to contract Covid-19.
The document says the epidemic could last until spring 2021, later than originally thought.
FFS, the government are now going to have to waste a day firefighting over the word "expected".
My guess would be that what it actually is about is PHE have to work out a response based upon an expected 80%, as that is the upper bound that has been predicted by the models. If they made plans based on 20%, the media would be screaming but but but the upper bound is 80%.
And again, Witty and co were quite clear they said wave one was 12 weeks, but they expected multiple waves.
I f##king said the media would do this if they got the documents.
If they expect multiple waves why put up a graph with a single peak? The double hump graph was for an 'Italian' approach.
Two different things. The government concern we could get either you get one massive front loaded spike with no action, or a series a waves in a single "season" that you don't actually get through because you shut down, release, it comes back, shut down, release.
Witty has been clear he wants to flatten this off to a single "peak" for this season, but he thinks it will be seasonal and back again next winter / spring.
The government hope is to get through this in 3 months, it really cool off, have time to build capacity and prepare for a return in 9 months.
They worry just shutting things down will result in a new peak every 2-3 months throughout the year.
The talk of a vaccine is 12-18 months minimum, so shock of shock horrors of coincidences that PHE planning through 2021.
France is also moving towards a herd immunity approach as without building up immunity amongst the able bodied a second wave in the winter will put huge pressure on the health service, even if this wave of Covid 19 slows down about June.
Meanwhile the government is sensibly preparing to self isolate the more vulnerable ie the elderly and those with pre existing health conditions
Two questions if I may:
1) If we are able to self-isolate large numbers in the short term and the virus returns in the winter, will said individuals have to self-isolate again as they will still have no resistance to the virus?
2) Are you advocating able bodied people actively seek those with the virus to get infected? That's how it sounds - to achieve the kind of immunity being suggested around 60% or so need to be infected. Currently we are a very long way from that. If you want to develop "herd immunity", remove all restrictions and let the virus run through the population. There will be some deaths but the vast majority will be fine for next winter. Is that Government policy?
1) Yes, the elderly and those with pre existing health conditions will have to self isolate again.
2) No, the economic consequences woild be too damaging of actively encouraging infection but that does not mean they cannot develop natural immunity
Nothing like trying it a second time, The Donald must be happy gets to refinance all his gold towers on the cheap.
Presumably this will mean a strong opening on the markets in the morning though it wreaks of desperation and sounds a bit like what Draghi had to do to protect the Euro.
Trump must be aware a failing economy undermines his chances in the autumn so he is throwing all kinds of stimulus at it now.
Will it? To me this seems exactly like last week. Donnie and co were screaming about their market pumping super weapon only for the curtains to be wrenched off and all we see is an orange nightmare brandishing fuck all.
It doesn't seem a coincidence that all their pump and dump schemes are released just before the market closes or an hour before futures open.
What epidemiological fundamentals has this changed? Hundreds of thousands of Americans are still gonna die and supply and demand are choking.
Herd mentality: it used to be said by purchasing managers in the 80s that "no-one got sacked for choosing IBM" (re desktops) even though they were much poorer value for money than the alternatives. Your argument is like that.
But yes, Boris and the boffins must persuade Joe Public about the policy. Fortunately he has time on his hands, electorally speaking. The Mediterranean policy of trying to eradicate by shut-down may be intended to look like decisive action now because the electoral ballot box is more imminent for them, but it could well be seen as inadequate in the medium term when successive waves of the epidemic wash over them.
Re the Med countries: this isn't about them trying to look decisive, they really don't have any choice. Once you have more than 3,000 cases in the Province of Bergamo (pop 1.1m), and your intensive care units are overloaded, then you have to shut everything down.
True, but there is a push to get us to follow them - trying to put a lid on it by quarantining whole cities/countries with travel restrictions, closing schools restaurants etc. That is a bad idea.
I wonder how many of the people demanding lockdowns have themselves self-isolated or even bother to wash their hands properly.
I have been washing my hands furiously for weeks, indeed to the point that I have bought the first hand cream of my life, to restore them each night for another days work.
I cannot self isolate, so am mending my ways on diet, exercise and alcohol so as to be in the fittest state when I catch it. I am rather hoping that health workers will get some ICU priority if needed.
The skin on my hands is really badly cracked...obviously all this washing and the fact as my father tells me that I have never done a proper days work in my life to harden them up.
Norwegian Formula hand cream is the tops.
Yep used it for years. Doing Archaeology work means washing hands a huge amount even when you have been wearing gloves. For a long time it was quite painful much of the time until someone recommended Norwegian Formula. I know it sounds like an advert but it really does work wonders.
Did you say you were going to be on a Channel 5 program ?
If so could you give details ?
Will do when I know. They said the morning's filming we did would amount to a few minutes in the actual programme so don't expect anything spectacular.
Quick question re Italy and Spain lockdowns: do they have a list of jobs which are excluded? Health workers and emergency services obviously must be exempt but what about all those involved in formulating and executing policy? Also utility workers, farmers, vets, I could go on...?
It’s a little unclear about who can work, will know more in the morning as I go to the supermarket, vets open as are key utilities and technology providers, they won’t leave the crops to rot providing they still have a market. Clearly 95% of retail operations are shut. There are meetings between unions and management in a number of factories tomorrow. It’s hard to keep up hairdressers we’re excluded yesterday but included today.
UK doctor on recovering from 'grim' coronavirus A former chair of the Royal College of GPs has told Radio 5 Live Breakfast about how she's getting through a "grim" coronavirus experience.
Evening all. I noticed that the government is trying to get manufacturers to switch over to making ventilators. That possibly shows a lack of understanding of modern engineering and manufacturing but ho hum what are we to expect.
The good news is they probably can do it but they need a really good base design that they can simplify for mass manufacture and then subdivide components for distributed manufacture. Then they need to buy every stobart lorry's capacity and start trucking. I'm not entirely convinced that this government can manage that given they struggled to stage a Potemkin traffic jam in Dover.
In a way, the virus has come at a bad time. If it were September, the easy decision - shutting everything down would be the right thing to do. Instead, the powers that be need to decide how much we need to use the summer that is approaching.
From what I see of Australia and Brazil, and other places in Latin America, I cannot see a British summer saving us.
Almost all the Australian cases came from those who had travelled abroad
Yep, same as us a couple of weeks ago.
Plenty of cases in Florida, Southern California, Central and Sourh America now, locally acquired.
None of the top 10 countries for coronavirus cases are in Latin America, Southern Africa or Australiasia where it is currently summer
Evening all. I noticed that the government is trying to get manufacturers to switch over to making ventilators. That possibly shows a lack of understanding of modern engineering and manufacturing but ho hum what are we to expect.
The good news is they probably can do it but they need a really good base design that they can simplify for mass manufacture and then subdivide components for distributed manufacture. Then they need to buy every stobart lorry's capacity and start trucking. I'm not entirely convinced that this government can manage that given they struggled to stage a Potemkin traffic jam in Dover.
That story was just obviously just bollox......
We'll have to ship them in from China\...but the fake news nationalist bullshit sounds better
In a way, the virus has come at a bad time. If it were September, the easy decision - shutting everything down would be the right thing to do. Instead, the powers that be need to decide how much we need to use the summer that is approaching.
From what I see of Australia and Brazil, and other places in Latin America, I cannot see a British summer saving us.
Almost all the Australian cases came from those who had travelled abroad
Yep, same as us a couple of weeks ago.
Plenty of cases in Florida, Southern California, Central and Sourh America now, locally acquired.
None of the top 10 countries for coronavirus cases are in Latin America, Southern Africa or Australiasia where it is currently summer
Given the undeniable fact that the outbreak has started at the exact same time all over the world, this is incontrovertable evidence that 'the summer will save us'.
I've always wondered why US press conferences are seemingly unable to take place without about 30 people standing behind the person giving it. Just one of those cultural differences I suppose.
I’m coming to conclusion that people like Peston are not malicious, they are just not very bright. What’s the point of briefing at length if nobody listens?
Out of hours markets falling back from Friday’s recovery
Unsurprising given it was a big rise on Friday and the news since has been unremittingly bad. The panic rate cut just reinforces how bad things must be.
Evening all. I noticed that the government is trying to get manufacturers to switch over to making ventilators. That possibly shows a lack of understanding of modern engineering and manufacturing but ho hum what are we to expect.
The good news is they probably can do it but they need a really good base design that they can simplify for mass manufacture and then subdivide components for distributed manufacture. Then they need to buy every stobart lorry's capacity and start trucking. I'm not entirely convinced that this government can manage that given they struggled to stage a Potemkin traffic jam in Dover.
Design deadline is Wednesday, a good team on the case, a Liberty Ship, crude but idiot proof spec, or so my sources say.
In a way, the virus has come at a bad time. If it were September, the easy decision - shutting everything down would be the right thing to do. Instead, the powers that be need to decide how much we need to use the summer that is approaching.
From what I see of Australia and Brazil, and other places in Latin America, I cannot see a British summer saving us.
Almost all the Australian cases came from those who had travelled abroad
Yep, same as us a couple of weeks ago.
Plenty of cases in Florida, Southern California, Central and Sourh America now, locally acquired.
None of the top 10 countries for coronavirus cases are in Latin America, Southern Africa or Australiasia where it is currently summer
Comments
Now, it's very very thinly populated, and has high elevation, but it's interesting none the less.
It has become shorthand for “I am indoors”. Like people who diet between meals.
There isn't the capacity to do it and you think all those people will just stand in line for several hours while they are processed?
The goal was on finding new cases and firefighting them so they didn't get a Northern Italy situation. From reports, they managed to put out fires in places like Brighton, which could have easily exploded.
I cannot self isolate, so am mending my ways on diet, exercise and alcohol so as to be in the fittest state when I catch it. I am rather hoping that health workers will get some ICU priority if needed.
Trump must be aware a failing economy undermines his chances in the autumn so he is throwing all kinds of stimulus at it now.
Fed just announced interest rate of 0% to 0.25%. $700 billion of QE. Forward guidance of low interest rates for foreseeable future. They are throwing everything at the wall. Economic data must be bad.
The plot just keeps going round in circles, the lead character is badly written and the supporting cast just stand around. The dialogue sounds as though it was written by a three year old and the camerawork is shockingly static. The guy with the grey hair must be one of the worst actors I’ve seen, could his delivery get any more boring? They didn’t even broadcast it to the end today. Who on earth commissioned this rubbish?
At Chicago O'Hare and Dallas-Fort Worth airports, passengers reported long queues as travellers returning from Europe waited to be screened as part of measures to combat coronavirus.
The US administration has imposed a ban on non-Americans travelling from the 26 European countries in the Schengen free movement zone. The ban will be extended to the UK and Ireland as of Tuesday.
US citizens are allowed to return but face screening.
Lets hope you get the best of luck.
First cases amongst staff in my hospital reported via WhatsApp. High patient contact specialities too.
And that is also dependent upon the number of tests and who are being tested.
Not to mention the number of people who are being infected who are asymptomatic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:2019–20_coronavirus_pandemic_data/China_medical_cases_by_province#Summary_table
Nice, caring idea and it rhymes so would make a good song.
I despair, I really do.
There is also evidence from mortality in those places, and Hong Kong, Singapore, etc.
https://www.lefigaro.fr/sciences/la-france-mise-sur-l-immunite-de-groupe-pour-arreter-le-coronavirus-20200313
Meanwhile the government is sensibly preparing to self isolate the more vulnerable ie the elderly and those with pre existing health conditions
She awaits the result of a test as she is showing classic symptoms - her first concern.... her patients
Somebody is wrong.
If so could you give details ?
Timing.
The coronavirus epidemic in the UK will last until next spring and could lead to 7.9 million people being hospitalised, a leaked Public Health England document has claimed.
The document, seen by The Guardian, says as much as 80 per cent of the population could be infected, and 15 per cent hospitalised.
The briefing contrasts with Prof Chris Whitty's previous statement that the 80 per cent was a "worse case scenario", telling PHE officials that many are "expected" to contract Covid-19.
The document says the epidemic could last until spring 2021, later than originally thought.
My usual Monday routine to follow. Up at 5. Gym gear on, kettle on, load suitcase laptop bag and suit carrier into the car. Down to WakeyVegas, run (will be day 6 of my 5k a day challenge), then onwards to Sheffield. Weather looks decent so leave the car at work for the 3k walk to my hotel. Normal.
How many more Monday's will I be travelling down from Teesside to work in Sheffield before government says dont? And if I'm not heading to work how many of my production colleagues end up the same? At which point how quickly does our business stop being able to function and falls over...?
At the same time my 19 year old reports that his (mega complex medical conditions) mum had the ambulance out this afternoon as trouble breathing. Her blood O2 level just above their guidelines so no ride to hospital or tests or help. Have told him to call 999 again if she really is struggling. TBH I've been half expecting *something* to finish her off for a while, was hoping she could keep going through his A-Levels at least. Not that I expect his year to ever complete their A-levels now.
Fun times!
Plenty of cases in Florida, Southern California, Central and Sourh America now, locally acquired.
Nobody noticeably coughing though which was a plus.
Doubt we'll be repeating the exercise for a while now.
1) If we are able to self-isolate large numbers in the short term and the virus returns in the winter, will said individuals have to self-isolate again as they will still have no resistance to the virus?
2) Are you advocating able bodied people actively seek those with the virus to get infected? That's how it sounds - to achieve the kind of immunity being suggested around 60% or so need to be infected. Currently we are a very long way from that. If you want to develop "herd immunity", remove all restrictions and let the virus run through the population. There will be some deaths but the vast majority will be fine for next winter. Is that Government policy?
My guess would be that what it actually is about is PHE have to work out a response based upon an expected 80%, as that is the upper bound that has been predicted by the models. If they made plans based on 20%, the media would be screaming but but but the upper bound is 80%.
And again, Witty and co were quite clear they said wave one was 12 weeks, but they expected multiple waves.
I f##king said the media would do this if they got the documents.
I just watched the latest episode of the very excellent Avenue 5. Lots of rich idiots stuck on a cruise ship in space. Very funny. Very black humour.
Somehow one visual effects expert manages to convince the passengers that they are really not stuck on a cruise liner in space but actually still on earth as part of a reality show. She helps as the first sucker goes into the airlock and in front of everyone dies rather horribly. She then convinces the crowd yet again this was all just visual effects and so more people do the same.
Eventually the crowd gets the message that this woman is talking bullshit and they really are in space. But not before 7 people have died.
In the real world we are seeing far too many 'experts' at the moment who are putting people's lives at risk by undermining the very carefully considered plans of the scientific and medical advisors.
But I would hope that the government would be getting more data, from this country and others, every day as to what is happening and adjust strategy as appropriate.
I've probably saved a couple of hundred this weekend-meals out etc...but I've lost well over 100k plus plus over the last weeks- not lost really since I never had it-on investments.....
I'm struggling to see how capitalism gets through this at the minute
What the fuck were those economic forecasts a month ago thinking-it might shave China's growth by 0.5%??
This is going to fuck over the real economy...people's lives, their little businesses, their hopes and dreams...all that work....
https://twitter.com/scott_mintzer/status/1239290389963714562
PS has somebody squared any emergency legislation with Christopher Chope so that he doesn't throw a procedural spanner in the works?
I am actually partly in agreement with you to the extent the message is confused and I am not sure it is the right thing to do (stopping testing). But at some point it simply becomes impractical.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/coronavirus-maps.html
You have to submit an online form....my friend works in telecoms and he can get to his office (I think to get away from his wife to be honest...but that's another matter)
Just let Johnson do his job!
I know they asked Ashworth to meet with them as well, so they also want to know the opposition are on board...good job Richard Burgon isn't in charge, as we would have to wait for the result of a 3 month referendum of Labour members before we would know.
Boris doesn't dream of reading and re-gurgitating un-comprehended 10,000 pages of briefings. That doesn't mean he didn't want the job.
Witty has been clear he wants to flatten this off to a single "peak" for this season, but he thinks it will be seasonal and back again next winter / spring.
The government hope is to get through this in 3 months, it really cool off, have time to build capacity and prepare for a return in 9 months.
They worry just shutting things down will result in a new peak every 2-3 months throughout the year.
The talk of a vaccine is 12-18 months minimum, so shock of shock horrors of coincidences that PHE planning through 2021.
2) No, the economic consequences woild be too damaging of actively encouraging infection but that does not mean they cannot develop natural immunity
It doesn't seem a coincidence that all their pump and dump schemes are released just before the market closes or an hour before futures open.
What epidemiological fundamentals has this changed? Hundreds of thousands of Americans are still gonna die and supply and demand are choking.
Edit S&P futures opening red
I don't think you quite understand how poorly prepared our NHS is for this crisis?
A big reason to keep the schools open is to keep the staff on the frontline....
A former chair of the Royal College of GPs has told Radio 5 Live Breakfast about how she's getting through a "grim" coronavirus experience.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/health-51886553/uk-doctor-on-recovering-from-grim-coronavirus
The good news is they probably can do it but they need a really good base design that they can simplify for mass manufacture and then subdivide components for distributed manufacture. Then they need to buy every stobart lorry's capacity and start trucking. I'm not entirely convinced that this government can manage that given they struggled to stage a Potemkin traffic jam in Dover.
https://twitter.com/scott_mintzer/status/1239290400109666305
That story was just obviously just bollox......
We'll have to ship them in from China\...but the fake news nationalist bullshit sounds better
I admit it. I'm scared.