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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Biden goes into tonight’s primaries as an 88% chance on Betfai

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  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,426

    Freggles said:
    Been mingling with mps and went to a reception with Boris

    HOC closed soon ?
    iirc the Speaker has said he would like to close HoC if one member of MP or staff gets this.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,387
    TGOHF666 said:
    This is not time for higher taxes. I presume the budget will go ahead. It really has to even if Parliament shuts down shortly after.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    TGOHF666 said:
    There won't be much fuel revenue coming in for the next 6 months anyway...
  • Options

    eadric said:

    As many as '60 to 70 per cent' of Germans will be infected with the deadly coronavirus, Chancellor Angela Merkel warned today, as the contagion threatened to rip through Europe.

    She is therefore predicting that, on a conservative estimate, 480,000 Germans will die, and 4 million will require critical care in hospital. In the next few weeks.
    83 million living in Germany and by my maths 70% of that is 58 million

    Am I missing something or is she predicting 58 million Germans will be infected ?
    So she is quoting one scenario. There are many scenarios. Some with big numbers. Some with small numbers.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    edited March 2020
    ...
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292

    If there are multiple strains circulating, we better hope that most at least of the UK ones are not the one from Italy.

    So far, it seems a large proportion of reported imported cases are those who went skiing in Northern Italy. Gulp.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,994

    If there are multiple strains circulating, we better hope that most at least of the UK ones are not the one from Italy.

    Thankfully our population is considerably younger than that of Italy.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,326

    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    eadric said:
    That is brutal.

    This perhaps goes some way to explain the numbers ?
    “ The health ministry says the average age of deaths from the coronavirus is 81.4 years.”
    8% in Lombardy and 0.13% in Germany.
    I wonder if I was right last week in thinking Germany has a different strain.
    ...or a more sophisticated healthcare system.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    alex_ said:

    Or maybe the Government does, in fact, know best/what it is doing? More so than the keyboard warriors.

    As I said, the gvt knows better than all of us what's going on. Their information chain is more complete (e.g. they know much than us re how cases are clustering, how much community transmission is being detected) and the eggheads processing this all and turning it into actionable advice to HMG are top-notch. Ministers are not hunting down twitter threads and preprint papers to work out what on Earth is going on. They have a rather dim electric torch while the rest of us are operating by candle-light.

    But there's a lot they don't know for sure. They don't know what's going to happen next. They don't know how effective interventions are going to be. Even if they get the epidemiological modelling right, they can't predict the fickleness of popular emotions, in a free society they can't control either media-driven panic or media-driven ostrich-with-head-in-sand impersonation. If you look at How will country-based mitigation measures influence the course of the COVID-19 epidemic? by Roy Anderson in the Lancet (a massively important academic in infectious disease modelling) it's clear a lot of his answers are "even we, the top experts in the field, don't really know how well things will work and don't even understand some basics of what's going on e.g. whether kids and presymptomatic people are going to be significant spreaders, which significantly undermines our attempts to make predictions of what should work, but here are our best guesses".

    If this is the uncertainty the top guys have, what hope for us little guys? And I've got postgrad training in epidemiology, modelling, stats, economic evaluation. And enough time to read research papers. What's an individual or company with a more typical background going to do when government tells them to "judge their own risk"? Since the gvt have the better information, however uncertain, I wish they would

    (1) TELL US WHAT TO DO TO REDUCE OUR RISKS. Like Edmund says, some of us would listen (esp those in high-risk groups!). Clearly we can, as individuals and organisations, do more than just "don't panic and wash your hands". And gvt knows what some of these are likely to be. Why not tell us? Information vacuum can lead to panicked and ineffective responses.

    On the other hand, given all the uncertainties in even their own knowledge....
    RobD said:


    Perhaps the effect is so small at the moment that it's not worth it? They spent a lot of the previous press conference going on about how timing the response is critical.

    (2) PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BE CLEVER-DICKS. If you don't know what's going to work, or how well it's going to work, how people are going to respond and so on, then I question their ability to somehow "get the timing right" for release of information, application of interventions etc. I appreciate they'll do as good a job as they can, but there's no point trying to be too smart about it. I hope that given uncertainties, they will err on the side of (a) prioritising the defeat of COVID-19 over other considerations, (b) where not in conflict with the above, being transparent with us all. Perhaps this is already baked in to their plans.
    STOP SHOUTING.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,446

    Oh no.

    Hope she's OK
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,426
    TGOHF666 said:
    Yet another annual Budget ritual of kite flying bollx. How many times? Every year we have the 40% pension thing and the fuel tax. Neither ever happens.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132
    Chameleon said:
    Even if there were 650 infected in the UK it should be approximately a 1/100,000 chance of an MP being infected.

    Conspiracies theories begin.
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    Foxy said:

    I have looked over Shadsys book and gone for orange tie tommorow, saffron being a good Hindu colour.

    On the buzzword bingo have gone for Fishing, Hard Working Families and No need to panic.

    Forget the colour of the tie, the Chancellor will deliver the budget wearing a hazmat suit,
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    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    As many as '60 to 70 per cent' of Germans will be infected with the deadly coronavirus, Chancellor Angela Merkel warned today, as the contagion threatened to rip through Europe.

    She is therefore predicting that, on a conservative estimate, 480,000 Germans will die, and 4 million will require critical care in hospital. In the next few weeks.
    83 million living in Germany and by my maths 70% of that is 58 million

    Am I missing something or is she predicting 58 million Germans will be infected ?
    Yes, she is predicting that
    Maybe I misread your post - you seemed to say 4 million
    She was referring to the WHO worst case scenario:
    - up to 70% infected
    - 5-10% in critical care i.e. 4 million
    - 1% fatalities

    She didn't make a prediction.
    Why did she say it in the first place. Hostage to fortune
    Are you suggesting that the political leadership of the country stays silent about the impending crisis?
    She had refrained from comment thus far, largely.
    She already caused chaos with her open invitation to migrants when prudence would have been wise, so the same with this
    Why did her open invitation to migrants cause chaos?

    Did your life become more chaotic?
    It is accepted that she made a huge error which continues to be played out on the Greek border
    No it isn't.

    How did your life become more chaotic?
    It did for millions of migrants and communitues around Europe

    And why have the EU done nothing about the Greeks opening fire on the migrants
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    eadric said:

    News from Italy tonight is horrible with fighting breaking out

    Civil disorder is inevitable. It's one reason why I am getting out of London
    Bravo!
    Certain things are indeed inevitable...
    My $0.02? He's doing it as an academic exercise to see what reaction he gets. He might then write it all up or if not just get some kind of satisfaction from it.

    There's nowt as queer as folk.
    Have I missed something with the London reference?
    Everything for him revolves around London. It is a slight illogicality amongst many.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,261
    edited March 2020
    DavidL said:

    eadric said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    To give perspective, the next 2 months will be horrible, but lockdowns work. China put on just 20 new cases today, 17 in Wuhan.

    https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1237483652398878725?s=19

    I am really not sure I get this wait till things get much worse before the lockdown. The idea that people are going to get bored or fed up seems, well, a bit far fetched, especially as it clearly won't stop the dying.

    The indications from China, SK, Singapore, Japan and some others is that hyper aggressive approaches of various kinds work and produce a much smaller peak than we might otherwise expect.

    I have no doubt people are doing their best and working very hard at this but have we got it right? I am not sure.
    If no further policy change tomorrow then it's time to get the shotgun and head for the woods.
    I have a choice between a hidden apartment in a posh Welsh seaside village or a primitive croft on Harris.

    The latter is probably safer but God it would be tough.
    Two weeks on Harris and you will be begging for the virus.
    I expect that sort of thing from southern softies but Harris is now relatively civilised (as well as beautiful of course). 25 years ago the Rodel was the only source of drink in South Harris and it was Findus's finest on the shopping list. Now there's a bar/restaurant in Leverburgh and you can get Rioja and coriander in the Clachan. And then there's the Harris distillery of course..
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,994
    eadric said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    To give perspective, the next 2 months will be horrible, but lockdowns work. China put on just 20 new cases today, 17 in Wuhan.

    https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1237483652398878725?s=19

    I am really not sure I get this wait till things get much worse before the lockdown. The idea that people are going to get bored or fed up seems, well, a bit far fetched, especially as it clearly won't stop the dying.

    The indications from China, SK, Singapore, Japan and some others is that hyper aggressive approaches of various kinds work and produce a much smaller peak than we might otherwise expect.

    I have no doubt people are doing their best and working very hard at this but have we got it right? I am not sure.
    I’m of your view David. Indeed so are many companies in London which have flipped to 80-100% homeworking. It needs to happen more widely.
    You get the impression that a lot of sensible things are being done (cancellations, restricted travel, more homeworking, less international travel, etc) despite the government instead of at its instance.
    I've generally been satisfied with Hancock's performance at a very difficult time though part of me wonders if Hunt would have been a safer pair of hands.

    But his wishy-washy answers to anything involving home-working, and a couple of other relatively low-cost individual or business-led actions, have been unconvincing I think. There is some stuff that is only going to happen at full tilt e.g. at smaller firms (rather than the better-prepared MNCs which already have secure alternative locations etc) when government gives a more positive green or red light. For example "now's a time when it would be good to take action X if you can, even if right now we're not dictating that you absolutely must; moreover, even if you decide not to go ahead with it right now, you really need to get prepared and investigate how you will do it soon, because we may be pushing it firmly in the near future".
    This.
    Social distancing well short of draconian lockdowns has a chance of working when the numbers are as low as they currently are. I get the feeling the government are being somewhat tardy in their advice.

    I understand the difficulty, as large scale following of such advice is going to kill retail and leisure business for a period of time. But if they don’t act that is going to happen in any event.
    Too slow. It's immensely frustrating.
    Government following not leading.

    Two things which ought to be possible without unacceptable costs are ramping up the official social distancing advice, and greatly increasing the rate of testing.
    AND MAKE EVERYONE WEAR A MASK ALL THE TIME

    Have you seen the videos of Chinese police brutally arresting people for not wearing masks?

    I get why they did it, now. They are one of the single best ways of stopping spreading, if people HAVE to go out. If you're infected, you won't cough and sneeze over everyone, you will cough and sneeze into your mask.

    It's so fucking absurdly pathetically surreally simple. We deserve to lose global leadership to the Asians if we can't grasp something that basic.
    I thought the United States chief medical officer said masks are useless?
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132

    TGOHF666 said:
    There won't be much fuel revenue coming in for the next 6 months anyway...
    Not so sure - people are going to chose driving their own car rather than use public transport.
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    Freggles said:
    Oh God we could have half the government out ill at crucial time. I did wonder if it was wise to have the two egg heads leading this out and about meeting so many politicians, journos etc.
    Time to bring back Dave, George, and Jeremy Hunt if the cabinet is incapacitated.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,907
    Is it time to send Michael Gove to an isolated place of safety?


    We can even tell him that it’s to ensure the continuity of government.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    Was meeting a friend for dinner tonight, we went to a local independent restaurant that I go to about once a month on average. For the first time ever, completely empty, the entire time we were there. Its a restaurant that gets a lot of business through big Asian tourist groups. They said 100% of these reservations cancelled for March, 75% cancelled for April already. Hard to see how many of these smaller places will survive a sustained crisis. The economic damage will be huge.

    You should be so lucky. If you had hot footed down to Cheltenham you wouldn't have found a table for love nor money.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,426

    Andy_JS said:

    60,000 at Cheltenham racecourse today. Brave or stupid?

    The virus doesn't like the open air , supposedly.
    Or alcohol.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,823

    Chameleon said:
    Even if there were 650 infected in the UK it should be approximately a 1/100,000 chance of an MP being infected.

    Conspiracies theories begin.
    She is both Health minister and Nurse, so may have had direct exposure recently while on duty.
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    GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123

    alex_ said:

    Or maybe the Government does, in fact, know best/what it is doing? More so than the keyboard warriors.

    As I said, the gvt knows better than all of us what's going on. Their information chain is more complete (e.g. they know much than us re how cases are clustering, how much community transmission is being detected) and the eggheads processing this all and turning it into actionable advice to HMG are top-notch. Ministers are not hunting down twitter threads and preprint papers to work out what on Earth is going on. They have a rather dim electric torch while the rest of us are operating by candle-light.

    But there's a lot they don't know for sure. They don't know what's going to happen next. They don't know how effective interventions are going to be. Even if they get the epidemiological modelling right, they can't predict the fickleness of popular emotions, in a free society they can't control either media-driven panic or media-driven ostrich-with-head-in-sand impersonation. If you look at How will country-based mitigation measures influence the course of the COVID-19 epidemic? by Roy Anderson in the Lancet (a massively important academic in infectious disease modelling) it's clear a lot of his answers are "even we, the top experts in the field, don't really know how well things will work and don't even understand some basics of what's going on e.g. whether kids and presymptomatic people are going to be significant spreaders, which significantly undermines our attempts to make predictions of what should work, but here are our best guesses".

    If this is the uncertainty the top guys have, what hope for us little guys? And I've got postgrad training in epidemiology, modelling, stats, economic evaluation. And enough time to read research papers. What's an individual or company with a more typical background going to do when government tells them to "judge their own risk"? Since the gvt have the better information, however uncertain, I wish they would

    (1) TELL US WHAT TO DO TO REDUCE OUR RISKS. Like Edmund says, some of us would listen (esp those in high-risk groups!). Clearly we can, as individuals and organisations, do more than just "don't panic and wash your hands". And gvt knows what some of these are likely to be. Why not tell us? Information vacuum can lead to panicked and ineffective responses.

    On the other hand, given all the uncertainties in even their own knowledge....
    RobD said:


    Perhaps the effect is so small at the moment that it's not worth it? They spent a lot of the previous press conference going on about how timing the response is critical.

    (2) PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BE CLEVER-DICKS. If you don't know what's going to work, or how well it's going to work, how people are going to respond and so on, then I question their ability to somehow "get the timing right" for release of information, application of interventions etc. I appreciate they'll do as good a job as they can, but there's no point trying to be too smart about it. I hope that given uncertainties, they will err on the side of (a) prioritising the defeat of COVID-19 over other considerations, (b) where not in conflict with the above, being transparent with us all. Perhaps this is already baked in to their plans.
    Excellent postings. I share some of your training and I agree. Like you, my concern is whether we are being too clever and actually we can't see the wood for the trees. With the wood being that if we act decisively and early, we can beat this.

    By contrast if we daudle we might create a self fulfilling prophecy.
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    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    As many as '60 to 70 per cent' of Germans will be infected with the deadly coronavirus, Chancellor Angela Merkel warned today, as the contagion threatened to rip through Europe.

    She is therefore predicting that, on a conservative estimate, 480,000 Germans will die, and 4 million will require critical care in hospital. In the next few weeks.
    83 million living in Germany and by my maths 70% of that is 58 million

    Am I missing something or is she predicting 58 million Germans will be infected ?
    Yes, she is predicting that
    Maybe I misread your post - you seemed to say 4 million
    She was referring to the WHO worst case scenario:
    - up to 70% infected
    - 5-10% in critical care i.e. 4 million
    - 1% fatalities

    She didn't make a prediction.
    Why did she say it in the first place. Hostage to fortune
    Are you suggesting that the political leadership of the country stays silent about the impending crisis?
    She had refrained from comment thus far, largely.
    She already caused chaos with her open invitation to migrants when prudence would have been wise, so the same with this
    Yes, of course. After careful consideration, I have to admit that you were right, I was wrong.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,326
    eadric said:

    Freggles said:
    Oh God we could have half the government out ill at crucial time. I did wonder if it was wise to have the two egg heads leading this out and about meeting so many politicians, journos etc.
    Likewise the Royal Family.

    There is a reason Death is pictured with a scythe. Tall poppies and short poppies: all are reaped.
    Having read over 1300 of your rather depressing Coronavirus focused posts, this is perhaps the most depressing.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    As many as '60 to 70 per cent' of Germans will be infected with the deadly coronavirus, Chancellor Angela Merkel warned today, as the contagion threatened to rip through Europe.

    She is therefore predicting that, on a conservative estimate, 480,000 Germans will die, and 4 million will require critical care in hospital. In the next few weeks.
    83 million living in Germany and by my maths 70% of that is 58 million

    Am I missing something or is she predicting 58 million Germans will be infected ?
    Yes, she is predicting that
    Maybe I misread your post - you seemed to say 4 million
    She was referring to the WHO worst case scenario:
    - up to 70% infected
    - 5-10% in critical care i.e. 4 million
    - 1% fatalities

    She didn't make a prediction.
    Why did she say it in the first place. Hostage to fortune
    Are you suggesting that the political leadership of the country stays silent about the impending crisis?
    She had refrained from comment thus far, largely.
    She already caused chaos with her open invitation to migrants when prudence would have been wise, so the same with this
    Why did her open invitation to migrants cause chaos?

    Did your life become more chaotic?
    It is accepted that she made a huge error which continues to be played out on the Greek border
    No it isn't.

    How did your life become more chaotic?
    It did for millions of migrants and communitues around Europe

    And why have the EU done nothing about the Greeks opening fire on the migrants
    Exactly on whose behalf are you speaking? Are you intimately acquainted with "millions of migrants and communities around Europe"?

    No of course you're not.

    You have precisely zero basis upon which to opine. A period of silence would be welcome now from you.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    So are MPs et al going to follow the official advice of 14 days’ self-isolation?
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    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,902
    Just to clarify, there is no evidence of two different strains causing differential mortality rates. Even the "L" "S" strain thing in the paper is irrelevant, because currently every Italian and German case is of the same strain.

    https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1236118205925445633

    The difference is that German cases skew young, and were caught early, the time from the onset of symptoms to death was over 8 weeks in some cases in China.

    It would be good if Andy could stop pedalling his cherry-picking misinformation bullshit.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132
    Foxy said:

    Chameleon said:
    Even if there were 650 infected in the UK it should be approximately a 1/100,000 chance of an MP being infected.

    Conspiracies theories begin.
    She is both Health minister and Nurse, so may have had direct exposure recently while on duty.
    Indeed.

    But she should then have been aware of the importance of PPE and cleaning.
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,963

    Chameleon said:
    Even if there were 650 infected in the UK it should be approximately a 1/100,000 chance of an MP being infected.

    Conspiracies theories begin.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/irans-coronavirus-problem-lot-worse-it-seems/607663/

    A similar argument was made about Iran last week:

    "On March 3, 23 out of 290 members of parliament—about 7.9 percent—had the disease. (Unlike ordinary people, these MPs probably had reliable access to diagnosis. State media insisted they contracted the disease not from one another, but from their home districts.) The rate of infection of parliamentarians would, if applied to Iran’s total population, come to 6.4 million cases."
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    Kevin Foster must be wondering whether it's safer to stay near Westminster or Torbay ?
    Also what happens to Nad's votes. Can the Gov't pair her off ?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Freggles said:
    Oh God we could have half the government out ill at crucial time. I did wonder if it was wise to have the two egg heads leading this out and about meeting so many politicians, journos etc.
    Likewise the Royal Family.

    There is a reason Death is pictured with a scythe. Tall poppies and short poppies: all are reaped.
    Having read over 1300 of your rather depressing Coronavirus focused posts, this is perhaps the most depressing.
    Thanks. I worked hard on that one
    I look forward to seeing it in your final work.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429

    This thread is in self-isolation

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    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    As many as '60 to 70 per cent' of Germans will be infected with the deadly coronavirus, Chancellor Angela Merkel warned today, as the contagion threatened to rip through Europe.

    She is therefore predicting that, on a conservative estimate, 480,000 Germans will die, and 4 million will require critical care in hospital. In the next few weeks.
    83 million living in Germany and by my maths 70% of that is 58 million

    Am I missing something or is she predicting 58 million Germans will be infected ?
    Yes, she is predicting that
    Maybe I misread your post - you seemed to say 4 million
    She was referring to the WHO worst case scenario:
    - up to 70% infected
    - 5-10% in critical care i.e. 4 million
    - 1% fatalities

    She didn't make a prediction.
    Why did she say it in the first place. Hostage to fortune
    Are you suggesting that the political leadership of the country stays silent about the impending crisis?
    She had refrained from comment thus far, largely.
    She already caused chaos with her open invitation to migrants when prudence would have been wise, so the same with this
    Why did her open invitation to migrants cause chaos?

    Did your life become more chaotic?
    It is accepted that she made a huge error which continues to be played out on the Greek border
    No it isn't.

    How did your life become more chaotic?
    It did for millions of migrants and communitues around Europe

    And why have the EU done nothing about the Greeks opening fire on the migrants
    Exactly on whose behalf are you speaking? Are you intimately acquainted with "millions of migrants and communities around Europe"?

    No of course you're not.

    You have precisely zero basis upon which to opine. A period of silence would be welcome now from you.
    Who on earth do you think you are.

    And many on this forum would endorse my views

    I will not be silent
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,387

    Chameleon said:
    Even if there were 650 infected in the UK it should be approximately a 1/100,000 chance of an MP being infected.

    Conspiracies theories begin.
    Not really. She's a health minister. Guess where she has been for most of the last fortnight.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    As many as '60 to 70 per cent' of Germans will be infected with the deadly coronavirus, Chancellor Angela Merkel warned today, as the contagion threatened to rip through Europe.

    She is therefore predicting that, on a conservative estimate, 480,000 Germans will die, and 4 million will require critical care in hospital. In the next few weeks.
    83 million living in Germany and by my maths 70% of that is 58 million

    Am I missing something or is she predicting 58 million Germans will be infected ?
    Yes, she is predicting that
    Maybe I misread your post - you seemed to say 4 million
    She was referring to the WHO worst case scenario:
    - up to 70% infected
    - 5-10% in critical care i.e. 4 million
    - 1% fatalities

    She didn't make a prediction.
    Why did she say it in the first place. Hostage to fortune
    Are you suggesting that the political leadership of the country stays silent about the impending crisis?
    She had refrained from comment thus far, largely.
    She already caused chaos with her open invitation to migrants when prudence would have been wise, so the same with this
    Why did her open invitation to migrants cause chaos?

    Did your life become more chaotic?
    It is accepted that she made a huge error which continues to be played out on the Greek border
    No it isn't.

    How did your life become more chaotic?
    It did for millions of migrants and communitues around Europe

    And why have the EU done nothing about the Greeks opening fire on the migrants
    Exactly on whose behalf are you speaking? Are you intimately acquainted with "millions of migrants and communities around Europe"?

    No of course you're not.

    You have precisely zero basis upon which to opine. A period of silence would be welcome now from you.
    Who on earth do you think you are.

    And many on this forum would endorse my views

    I will not be silent
    STFU Big G. Tell us about cruises and big armchairs. That's about it.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,673

    I think when I get back home tomorrow it is time to WFH every day and minimise leaving the house.


    I braved my GP's surgery yesterday. Seemed very quiet to me. Only three of us in the waiting room at a peak, just after school, hour.

    He wanted a non-urgent blood test.

    I think I'll wait a week or so and see where we are headed.
    I had to go to my GP today. It was just me, 7 sanitizer machines and 3 receptionists.

    Worried well staying away. Still quick service, no waiting.
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    eadric said:

    Freggles said:
    Oh God we could have half the government out ill at crucial time. I did wonder if it was wise to have the two egg heads leading this out and about meeting so many politicians, journos etc.
    Likewise the Royal Family.

    There is a reason Death is pictured with a scythe. Tall poppies and short poppies: all are reaped.
    You don't reap poppies, you leave them standing and slit the seed pod with a razor blade.
  • Options

    NEW THREAD

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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132
    So what would be an easy way for the government to stress the risks of coronovirus ?

    Perhaps by announcing the health minister had become infected ?
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    GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    eadric said:

    Andy_JS said:

    eadric said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    To give perspective, the next 2 months will be horrible, but lockdowns work. China put on just 20 new cases today, 17 in Wuhan.

    https://twitter.com/kakape/status/1237483652398878725?s=19

    I am really not sure I get this wait till things get much worse before the lockdown. The idea that people are going to get bored or fed up seems, well, a bit far fetched, especially as it clearly won't stop the dying.

    The indications from China, SK, Singapore, Japan and some others is that hyper aggressive approaches of various kinds work and produce a much smaller peak than we might otherwise expect.

    I have no doubt people are doing their best and working very hard at this but have we got it right? I am not sure.
    I’m of your view David. Indeed so are many companies in London which have flipped to 80-100% homeworking. It needs to happen more widely.
    You get the impression that a lot of sensible things are being done (cancellations, restricted travel, more homeworking, less international travel, etc) despite the government instead of at its instance.
    I've generally been satisfied with Hancock's performance at a very difficult time though part of me wonders if Hunt would have been a safer pair of hands.

    But his wishy-washy answers to anything involving home-working, and a couple of other relatively low-cost individual or business-led actions, have been unconvincing I think. There is some stuff that is only going to happen at full tilt e.g. at smaller firms (rather than the better-prepared MNCs which already have secure alternative locations etc) when government gives a more positive green or red light. For example "now's a time when it would be good to take action X if you can, even if right now we're not dictating that you absolutely must; moreover, even if you decide not to go ahead with it right now, you really need to get prepared and investigate how you will do it soon, because we may be pushing it firmly in the near future".
    This.
    Social distancing well short of draconian lockdowns has a chance of working when the numbers are as low as they currently are. I get the feeling the government are being somewhat tardy in their advice.

    I understand the difficulty, as large scale following of such advice is going to kill retail and leisure business for a period of time. But if they don’t act that is going to happen in any event.
    Too slow. It's immensely frustrating.
    Government following not leading.

    Two things which ought to be possible without unacceptable costs are ramping up the official social distancing advice, and greatly increasing the rate of testing.
    AND MAKE EVERYONE WEAR A MASK ALL THE TIME

    Have you seen the videos of Chinese police brutally arresting people for not wearing masks?

    I get why they did it, now. They are one of the single best ways of stopping spreading, if people HAVE to go out. If you're infected, you won't cough and sneeze over everyone, you will cough and sneeze into your mask.

    It's so fucking absurdly pathetically surreally simple. We deserve to lose global leadership to the Asians if we can't grasp something that basic.
    I thought the United States chief medical officer said masks are useless?
    They keep saying that because they don't want people to buy all the masks, meaning there are none left for healthworkers.

    It's a fair point, but it is also a lie (in terms of utility). The ideal situation is when EVERYONE has a mask. They modestly limit your chances of being infected (if you use them right), they CERTAINLY limit your chances of spreading the bug, if you're a carrier.
    This is my view also. It's a lie akin to carrots making you see better in the dark.

    Just make more masks.
  • Options
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    As many as '60 to 70 per cent' of Germans will be infected with the deadly coronavirus, Chancellor Angela Merkel warned today, as the contagion threatened to rip through Europe.

    She is therefore predicting that, on a conservative estimate, 480,000 Germans will die, and 4 million will require critical care in hospital. In the next few weeks.
    83 million living in Germany and by my maths 70% of that is 58 million

    Am I missing something or is she predicting 58 million Germans will be infected ?
    Yes, she is predicting that
    Maybe I misread your post - you seemed to say 4 million
    She was referring to the WHO worst case scenario:
    - up to 70% infected
    - 5-10% in critical care i.e. 4 million
    - 1% fatalities

    She didn't make a prediction.
    Why did she say it in the first place. Hostage to fortune
    Are you suggesting that the political leadership of the country stays silent about the impending crisis?
    She had refrained from comment thus far, largely.
    She already caused chaos with her open invitation to migrants when prudence would have been wise, so the same with this
    Why did her open invitation to migrants cause chaos?

    Did your life become more chaotic?
    It is accepted that she made a huge error which continues to be played out on the Greek border
    No it isn't.

    How did your life become more chaotic?
    It did for millions of migrants and communitues around Europe

    And why have the EU done nothing about the Greeks opening fire on the migrants
    Exactly on whose behalf are you speaking? Are you intimately acquainted with "millions of migrants and communities around Europe"?

    No of course you're not.

    You have precisely zero basis upon which to opine. A period of silence would be welcome now from you.
    Who on earth do you think you are.

    And many on this forum would endorse my views

    I will not be silent
    STFU Big G. Tell us about cruises and big armchairs. That's about it.
    Pathetic and sad - such intolerance and arrogance

    And no answer on why the EU are not preventing the Greeks firing on the migrants
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,326
    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    Freggles said:
    Oh God we could have half the government out ill at crucial time. I did wonder if it was wise to have the two egg heads leading this out and about meeting so many politicians, journos etc.
    Likewise the Royal Family.

    There is a reason Death is pictured with a scythe. Tall poppies and short poppies: all are reaped.
    Having read over 1300 of your rather depressing Coronavirus focused posts, this is perhaps the most depressing.
    Thanks. I worked hard on that one
    Mission accomplished!
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132
    DavidL said:

    Chameleon said:
    Even if there were 650 infected in the UK it should be approximately a 1/100,000 chance of an MP being infected.

    Conspiracies theories begin.
    Not really. She's a health minister. Guess where she has been for most of the last fortnight.
    The same place all those hospital workers have been ?

    How many of them are infected ?
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    As many as '60 to 70 per cent' of Germans will be infected with the deadly coronavirus, Chancellor Angela Merkel warned today, as the contagion threatened to rip through Europe.

    She is therefore predicting that, on a conservative estimate, 480,000 Germans will die, and 4 million will require critical care in hospital. In the next few weeks.
    83 million living in Germany and by my maths 70% of that is 58 million

    Am I missing something or is she predicting 58 million Germans will be infected ?
    Yes, she is predicting that
    Maybe I misread your post - you seemed to say 4 million
    She was referring to the WHO worst case scenario:
    - up to 70% infected
    - 5-10% in critical care i.e. 4 million
    - 1% fatalities

    She didn't make a prediction.
    Why did she say it in the first place. Hostage to fortune
    Are you suggesting that the political leadership of the country stays silent about the impending crisis?
    She had refrained from comment thus far, largely.
    She already caused chaos with her open invitation to migrants when prudence would have been wise, so the same with this
    Why did her open invitation to migrants cause chaos?

    Did your life become more chaotic?
    It is accepted that she made a huge error which continues to be played out on the Greek border
    No it isn't.

    How did your life become more chaotic?
    It did for millions of migrants and communitues around Europe

    And why have the EU done nothing about the Greeks opening fire on the migrants
    Exactly on whose behalf are you speaking? Are you intimately acquainted with "millions of migrants and communities around Europe"?

    No of course you're not.

    You have precisely zero basis upon which to opine. A period of silence would be welcome now from you.
    Who on earth do you think you are.

    And many on this forum would endorse my views

    I will not be silent
    STFU Big G. Tell us about cruises and big armchairs. That's about it.
    Pathetic and sad - such intolerance and arrogance

    And no answer on why the EU are not preventing the Greeks firing on the migrants
    Big G time for you to go to bed. Your ignorance is getting the better of you.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    BigRich said:

    Just in case anybody whats a brake from talking about the virus and move on to the elections being held for the democratic Primarys today:

    The following states are voting today:

    Idaho (S)
    Michigan (S)
    Mississippi
    Missouri
    Washington
    North Dakota (S)

    Sanders won 3 of them last time, Marked with an (S)

    How many will he win this time?

    If he loses all of them will he pull out before the next debate?

    If he wins more than last time will his campaign get a second wind?

    I would expect Sanders to win Washington this time around.

    North Dakota is a firehouse caucus, I believe, so I wouldn't be surprised if he wins that. Idaho is tiny, so why not.

    Michigan will, I think, be Biden, as will Missouri and Mississippi
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,067

    eadric said:

    Covid 19 has demonstrated the impotence of the EU for all to see

    When a country comes under an existential threat, the politicians of that country will act in that country's interest in defiance of anything the EU may demand

    Furthermore, the countries are more nimble than a juggernaut like the EU

    I know I will get EU supporters having a pop at me but it isthere for all to see.

    The Greeks opening fire on migrants on behalf of the EU to protect it's borders is shameful

    I think the Greeks are shooting at migrants to protect Greece
    And no condemnation from the EU
    Have to say they cannot keep taking all the economic migrants. How many have England taken in in last 6 or 7 years, we know who should be ashamed.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,067
    Jonathan said:

    Blimey. No fan of Nadine’s politics, but I hope she’s ok. Could the entire government now be at risk?
    Do donkeys get it.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068

    TOPPING said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    As many as '60 to 70 per cent' of Germans will be infected with the deadly coronavirus, Chancellor Angela Merkel warned today, as the contagion threatened to rip through Europe.

    She is therefore predicting that, on a conservative estimate, 480,000 Germans will die, and 4 million will require critical care in hospital. In the next few weeks.
    83 million living in Germany and by my maths 70% of that is 58 million

    Am I missing something or is she predicting 58 million Germans will be infected ?
    Yes, she is predicting that
    Maybe I misread your post - you seemed to say 4 million
    She was referring to the WHO worst case scenario:
    - up to 70% infected
    - 5-10% in critical care i.e. 4 million
    - 1% fatalities

    She didn't make a prediction.
    Why did she say it in the first place. Hostage to fortune
    Are you suggesting that the political leadership of the country stays silent about the impending crisis?
    She had refrained from comment thus far, largely.
    She already caused chaos with her open invitation to migrants when prudence would have been wise, so the same with this
    Why did her open invitation to migrants cause chaos?

    Did your life become more chaotic?
    It is accepted that she made a huge error which continues to be played out on the Greek border
    She was certainly largely responsible for the hundreds of thousands who tried to cross the Med on boats.

    But four years on, I think the responsibility for the migrants at the Turkish-Greek border are the responsibility of Erdogan. He has ordered buses to transport migrants from Turkey's Southern borders to the Greek border, and he supporting the migrants attempts to cross with police and soldiers.

    That is very close to an act of war.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    eadric said:

    eadric said:

    As many as '60 to 70 per cent' of Germans will be infected with the deadly coronavirus, Chancellor Angela Merkel warned today, as the contagion threatened to rip through Europe.

    She is therefore predicting that, on a conservative estimate, 480,000 Germans will die, and 4 million will require critical care in hospital. In the next few weeks.
    83 million living in Germany and by my maths 70% of that is 58 million

    Am I missing something or is she predicting 58 million Germans will be infected ?
    Yes, she is predicting that
    Maybe I misread your post - you seemed to say 4 million
    She was referring to the WHO worst case scenario:
    - up to 70% infected
    - 5-10% in critical care i.e. 4 million
    - 1% fatalities

    She didn't make a prediction.
    Why did she say it in the first place. Hostage to fortune
    Are you suggesting that the political leadership of the country stays silent about the impending crisis?
    She had refrained from comment thus far, largely.
    She already caused chaos with her open invitation to migrants when prudence would have been wise, so the same with this
    Why did her open invitation to migrants cause chaos?

    Did your life become more chaotic?
    It is accepted that she made a huge error which continues to be played out on the Greek border
    No it isn't.

    How did your life become more chaotic?
    It did for millions of migrants and communitues around Europe

    And why have the EU done nothing about the Greeks opening fire on the migrants
    Exactly on whose behalf are you speaking? Are you intimately acquainted with "millions of migrants and communities around Europe"?

    No of course you're not.

    You have precisely zero basis upon which to opine. A period of silence would be welcome now from you.
    Who on earth do you think you are.

    And many on this forum would endorse my views

    I will not be silent
    STFU Big G. Tell us about cruises and big armchairs. That's about it.
    Pathetic and sad - such intolerance and arrogance

    And no answer on why the EU are not preventing the Greeks firing on the migrants
    The Greeks are firing on the migrants because the migrants are being used as a weapon of war by the Turks. It is a deliberate attempt to destabilize the Greek state.

    I tend to steer clear of hyperbole on here, but your righteous anger would be better directed at Erdogan than the Greek government.
This discussion has been closed.