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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » My money’s on Layla Moran for Jo Swinson’s old job

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  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    There is a lot of talk (On Twitter, I know) about people who on ringing 111 are being asked after they have described symptoms if they have been to a high risk are or in contact with someone who has, if they reply no they are told they have flu and aren’t being tested.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    It's a growing concern. I was on course for Gold this year :(

    :D
    Emirates Skywards have already said that they're suspending status downgrades indefinitely, apparently it was the most common question to their call centre as this all kicked off a few weeks ago.
    I've reconciled myself to the fact that I'm losing my BA Gold Status this year.

    I'll be bloody pissed if I lose it *and* get Coronavirus.
    If you’re in bed with Coronavirus I would be amazed if you are worrying about your frequent flyer status. Even Sean wouldn’t sink that far.
    Of course Sean wouldn't care, he's going to be gold status anyway.

    For those of us who are going to miss out on a year of Gold because of this damn virus, it's a much bigger problem!
    BA should award posthumous Gold for Life status to any victims.
    Do they fly down there, then?
    Perhaps your widow would get it. A small crumb of comfort.
    Only for the happily married.
    You don't have to be married (at least not when you are living and have it!)
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,064
    Nigelb said:

    And the US virus response ... ?
    *coughs*
    Hey! Turn the other way before you cough on us. Don't you know there's a pandemic on?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Encouraging. And from a country with (I would hope) a good detection and reporting regime.
    https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1237362407506313216
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922
    nichomar said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    There is a lot of talk (On Twitter, I know) about people who on ringing 111 are being asked after they have described symptoms if they have been to a high risk are or in contact with someone who has, if they reply no they are told they have flu and aren’t being tested.
    If they are getting tens of thousands of calls about it, isn't it more likely that they don't have it? There hasn't been much community infection yet, it's primarily imported cases.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,899
    edited March 2020

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    It could be the effect of some behavioural changes. If people are panic buying soap and so on, hopefully it means they are actually washing their hands more. I suspect we are already seeing the effects of some voluntary event cancellations and home working as well. Basically there must be a fair bit of already doing what the government is about to mandate.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    glw said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    It could be the effect of some behavioural changes. If people are panic buying soap and so on, hopefully it means they are actually washing their hands more. I suspect we are already seeing the effects of some voluntary event cancellations and home working as well. Basically there must be a fair bit of doing what the govnerment is about to mandate already.
    My bloody hands are as sore as anything from all this washing !!!
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123

    RobD said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    Did they post the number negative yesterday? You can see if the test rate is increasing in line with detection.
    Cumulative total tests past 4 days.

    21461
    23513
    24960
    26261

    So tests past 3 days

    2052
    1447
    1301

    Surely we should be testing more people every day, not less? I presume weekend effect.
    Good news on the number of new infections counter-balanced by disappointing news on the number of tests done. If capacity cannot keep up with demand, which surely it can't now, then I wonder if the plan is to switch to a more clinical diagnosis at some point.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509

    Putin could yet be in power for rather longer:
    https://twitter.com/nytimesworld/status/1237367431099801601

    Will any other political leader, citing the need for stability, be bold enough to follow Vladimir Vladimirovich's lead?
    How long will Russia remain stable, if the oil price sticks at $20 or $25?

    The Arabs reckon they can ride it out for a while with currency reserves, how long can Putin go?

    In totally unrelated news, rouble down 15% vs US$ in the past week.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    nichomar said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    There is a lot of talk (On Twitter, I know) about people who on ringing 111 are being asked after they have described symptoms if they have been to a high risk are or in contact with someone who has, if they reply no they are told they have flu and aren’t being tested.
    What we don't know is the other symptoms they might have and are actually very uncommon if you have it e.g. runny nose. It may well be all these folk on twitter ringing up aren't thinking about these additional questions they have been asked and think yes I told them I had a runny nose, so what.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,994

    Putin could yet be in power for rather longer:
    https://twitter.com/nytimesworld/status/1237367431099801601

    A shame, ot was funnier seeing him change position but retain power than go the traditional route of just extending term limits.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089
    If only big Don was as on top of COVID19 as he was the Dem primaries :o

    https://twitter.com/ASlavitt/status/1237081444117348354
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,081
    Alistair said:

    So, did she bring it up or did Piers?

    Piers did. And I'm sure that the reason he did was not to play a tabloid populist tune to his ill-informed gallery but because he is absolutely MASSIVE on women's rights. Women's rights, how to protect them, how to advance them, how to combat the patriarchy, is what above all other issues keeps him awake at night.
  • He should have gone for an Apple Watch.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,064

    TGOHF666 said:

    twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1237377188887957504?s=21

    We have a deadly disease with no cure sweeping the world and we are arguing over just how many genders there are...Fiddling while Rome burns stuff.

    Around here there are 3 genders, and I regularly get confused by them.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,846
    RobD said:

    nichomar said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    There is a lot of talk (On Twitter, I know) about people who on ringing 111 are being asked after they have described symptoms if they have been to a high risk are or in contact with someone who has, if they reply no they are told they have flu and aren’t being tested.
    If they are getting tens of thousands of calls about it, isn't it more likely that they don't have it? There hasn't been much community infection yet, it's primarily imported cases.
    There are a lot of SeanTs out there. I hear via a friend of a female member of the House of Lords who is refusing to leave home convinced she has the virus.

    A cold and google are a deadly combination.
  • Sandpit said:

    Putin could yet be in power for rather longer:
    https://twitter.com/nytimesworld/status/1237367431099801601

    Will any other political leader, citing the need for stability, be bold enough to follow Vladimir Vladimirovich's lead?
    How long will Russia remain stable, if the oil price sticks at $20 or $25?

    The Arabs reckon they can ride it out for a while with currency reserves, how long can Putin go?

    In totally unrelated news, rouble down 15% vs US$ in the past week.
    His lack of cooperation with OPEC seems to indicate he is aware of his limitations.
    If the Arabs reckon as you said, are they reckoning correctly? What's your take, close as you are?
  • Royal Caribbean now junk bond status according to Bloomberg Markets
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569

    RobD said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    Did they post the number negative yesterday? You can see if the test rate is increasing in line with detection.
    Cumulative total tests past 4 days.

    21461
    23513
    24960
    26261

    So tests past 3 days

    2052
    1447
    1301

    Surely we should be testing more people every day, not less? I presume weekend effect.
    If it is the weekend effect, then we will know tommorow, as there would be a jump with Mondays tests. I think it two early for any social distancing or handwashing to have made a difference.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,933

    Fpt, still worth a read.

    Something from the Lancet that I think anyone should read before continuing to discuss pros/cons of what we "should" be doing...

    How will country-based mitigation measures influence the course of the COVID-19 epidemic? Roy M Anderson, Hans Heesterbeek, Don Klinkenberg, T Déirdre Hollingsworth. Published March 09, 2020

    This is a pretty much up-to-date must-read on mitigation measures. Anderson (who's at Imperial, for those who are partisan about these things) is a legend in the field of infectious disease modelling.

    But interestingly, I don't think anyone who's been following PB closely over the past few days will find much new in it. Perhaps an indication of just how tricky the contact-tracing is? Indication of what the experts really think (as distinct from commentariat froth) and what uncertainties they face? Definitely the better comments below-the-line on PB have maintained a high quality of discussion and I don't think there's much here that's been missed.

    This was a key point:
    How individuals respond to advice on how best to prevent transmission will be as important as government actions, if not more important...
    One thing the article fails to consider in any detail is how government actions might shape individuals' responses. If government doesn't seem to be taking it particularly seriously for now, a large number of people will not do so, either.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,933
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    nichomar said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    There is a lot of talk (On Twitter, I know) about people who on ringing 111 are being asked after they have described symptoms if they have been to a high risk are or in contact with someone who has, if they reply no they are told they have flu and aren’t being tested.
    If they are getting tens of thousands of calls about it, isn't it more likely that they don't have it? There hasn't been much community infection yet, it's primarily imported cases.
    There are a lot of SeanTs out there. I hear via a friend of a female member of the House of Lords who is refusing to leave home convinced she has the virus.

    A cold and google are a deadly combination.
    People refusing to leave home if they have even mild viral symptoms would actually be overall helpful for now, not deadly...
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    Anorak said:

    Encouraging. And from a country with (I would hope) a good detection and reporting regime.
    https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1237362407506313216

    SK may be an odd comparator as so much of their initial transmission was within a large but relatively easily traced and tested cluster (that religious movement). That will have affected the temporal pattern of their test results.

    In contrast it doesn't sound from public statements like the UK authorities have managed to get a handle on any of our homegrown clusters, let alone isolate and deal with them. They do seem pretty sure we have a few, but presumably small or in their early stages.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,777

    RobD said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    Did they post the number negative yesterday? You can see if the test rate is increasing in line with detection.
    Cumulative total tests past 4 days.

    21461
    23513
    24960
    26261

    So tests past 3 days

    2052
    1447
    1301

    Surely we should be testing more people every day, not less? I presume weekend effect.
    Good news on the number of new infections counter-balanced by disappointing news on the number of tests done. If capacity cannot keep up with demand, which surely it can't now, then I wonder if the plan is to switch to a more clinical diagnosis at some point.
    It might seem odd but I recollect there being fewer tests reported on Monday/Tuesday last week and someone (?Foxy) explained that as being due to a 24-48 hour turnaround time and fewer labs (and hence tests) working on the weekend... agree that I would have hoped we could be accelerating the tests more than we have done - not sure what / how we do that....
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,297
    On topic, not Layla, please. She seems to combine all the worst aspects of Jo Swinson plus a few added ones of her own.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    Did they post the number negative yesterday? You can see if the test rate is increasing in line with detection.
    Cumulative total tests past 4 days.

    21461
    23513
    24960
    26261

    So tests past 3 days

    2052
    1447
    1301

    Surely we should be testing more people every day, not less? I presume weekend effect.
    If it is the weekend effect, then we will know tommorow, as there would be a jump with Mondays tests. I think it two early for any social distancing or handwashing to have made a difference.
    I really hope we can expand capacity. South Korea have done 200k tests among a similar sized population. We seemed to start off well, but really need capacity ramping up ASAP.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152

    RobD said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    Did they post the number negative yesterday? You can see if the test rate is increasing in line with detection.
    Cumulative total tests past 4 days.

    21461
    23513
    24960
    26261

    So tests past 3 days

    2052
    1447
    1301

    Surely we should be testing more people every day, not less? I presume weekend effect.
    Good news on the number of new infections counter-balanced by disappointing news on the number of tests done. If capacity cannot keep up with demand, which surely it can't now, then I wonder if the plan is to switch to a more clinical diagnosis at some point.
    Is there a demand for more tests? How would we know?

    The 4.2% of positive tests is the highest rate for a single day (other than the 2 out of 16 on 31 January).
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    Royal Caribbean now junk bond status according to Bloomberg Markets

    The plunge in oil prices could see some big energy names go the same way, according to some analysts.

    Oxy, Apache, Marathon and Hess all cited as at risk.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Korea doing far better than the Chinese with the looks of that graph. See it can be done without going all medieval on people's ass.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569
    It looks as if we are about 6 weeks behind Korea, which fits with the prediction of a peak in late April/early May.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813

    Anorak said:

    Encouraging. And from a country with (I would hope) a good detection and reporting regime.
    https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1237362407506313216

    SK may be an odd comparator as so much of their initial transmission was within a large but relatively easily traced and tested cluster (that religious movement). That will have affected the temporal pattern of their test results.

    In contrast it doesn't sound from public statements like the UK authorities have managed to get a handle on any of our homegrown clusters, let alone isolate and deal with them. They do seem pretty sure we have a few, but presumably small or in their early stages.
    The massive testing they have rolled out quickly will also have helped SK establish if / where there has been further spread (without having to individually track down every single loony cult members movements).
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    RobD said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    Did they post the number negative yesterday? You can see if the test rate is increasing in line with detection.
    Cumulative total tests past 4 days.

    21461
    23513
    24960
    26261

    So tests past 3 days

    2052
    1447
    1301

    Surely we should be testing more people every day, not less? I presume weekend effect.
    Given we are staying at over 95% of tests being negative it seems like we are surely doing ok on the testing front right now.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Nigelb said:

    Fpt, still worth a read.

    Something from the Lancet that I think anyone should read before continuing to discuss pros/cons of what we "should" be doing...

    How will country-based mitigation measures influence the course of the COVID-19 epidemic? Roy M Anderson, Hans Heesterbeek, Don Klinkenberg, T Déirdre Hollingsworth. Published March 09, 2020

    This is a pretty much up-to-date must-read on mitigation measures. Anderson (who's at Imperial, for those who are partisan about these things) is a legend in the field of infectious disease modelling.

    But interestingly, I don't think anyone who's been following PB closely over the past few days will find much new in it. Perhaps an indication of just how tricky the contact-tracing is? Indication of what the experts really think (as distinct from commentariat froth) and what uncertainties they face? Definitely the better comments below-the-line on PB have maintained a high quality of discussion and I don't think there's much here that's been missed.

    This was a key point:
    How individuals respond to advice on how best to prevent transmission will be as important as government actions, if not more important...
    One thing the article fails to consider in any detail is how government actions might shape individuals' responses. If government doesn't seem to be taking it particularly seriously for now, a large number of people will not do so, either.
    Panic buying bog-roll is a good leading indicator that the public are starting to take this virus seriously. I hope so anyway.
  • EU temporary drops the rule that requires airlines to operate 80% of their scheduled services to retain their landing slots
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    Anorak said:

    Encouraging. And from a country with (I would hope) a good detection and reporting regime.
    https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1237362407506313216

    SK may be an odd comparator as so much of their initial transmission was within a large but relatively easily traced and tested cluster (that religious movement). That will have affected the temporal pattern of their test results.

    In contrast it doesn't sound from public statements like the UK authorities have managed to get a handle on any of our homegrown clusters, let alone isolate and deal with them. They do seem pretty sure we have a few, but presumably small or in their early stages.
    Do we even know where the UK clusters are? "NorthWest" says a lot less than, say, Manchester or Lancaster.

    Does anyone know?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152
    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    Did they post the number negative yesterday? You can see if the test rate is increasing in line with detection.
    Cumulative total tests past 4 days.

    21461
    23513
    24960
    26261

    So tests past 3 days

    2052
    1447
    1301

    Surely we should be testing more people every day, not less? I presume weekend effect.
    If it is the weekend effect, then we will know tommorow, as there would be a jump with Mondays tests. I think it two early for any social distancing or handwashing to have made a difference.
    Yes, there were 386 tests recorded last Tuesday and 2,748 recorded last Wednesday.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited March 2020
    Foxy said:

    It looks as if we are about 6 weeks behind Korea, which fits with the prediction of a peak in late April/early May.
    If we can get away with a similar trend to South Korea, it really will be more of a miracle than Leicester winning the EPL !!!!

    One big worry I have is SK can easily isolate themselves from the outside world, not as draconian as China, but certainly more than what we are used to in Europe.

    I think we will still be importing cases for many months.

    The big thing we need is a some sort more instant / rapid test.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    EU temporary drops the rule that requires airlines to operate 80% of their scheduled services to retain their landing slots

    About time!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,846
    IanB2 said:

    I don’t see much upward pressure on the Dow, so am taking out a small sell position in anticipation of a slide toward 24000

    Which worked,. Don’t see today as the break below today, so will shortly cash in.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922

    Anorak said:

    Encouraging. And from a country with (I would hope) a good detection and reporting regime.
    https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1237362407506313216

    SK may be an odd comparator as so much of their initial transmission was within a large but relatively easily traced and tested cluster (that religious movement). That will have affected the temporal pattern of their test results.

    In contrast it doesn't sound from public statements like the UK authorities have managed to get a handle on any of our homegrown clusters, let alone isolate and deal with them. They do seem pretty sure we have a few, but presumably small or in their early stages.
    Do we even know where the UK clusters are? "NorthWest" says a lot less than, say, Manchester or Lancaster.

    Does anyone know?
    Torbay is one of them.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    Anorak said:

    Encouraging. And from a country with (I would hope) a good detection and reporting regime.
    https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1237362407506313216

    SK may be an odd comparator as so much of their initial transmission was within a large but relatively easily traced and tested cluster (that religious movement). That will have affected the temporal pattern of their test results.

    In contrast it doesn't sound from public statements like the UK authorities have managed to get a handle on any of our homegrown clusters, let alone isolate and deal with them. They do seem pretty sure we have a few, but presumably small or in their early stages.
    Do we even know where the UK clusters are? "NorthWest" says a lot less than, say, Manchester or Lancaster.

    Does anyone know?
    They release data by top tier local authority. Lots in London, but Devon is the current UK hotspot.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922

    Nigelb said:

    Fpt, still worth a read.

    Something from the Lancet that I think anyone should read before continuing to discuss pros/cons of what we "should" be doing...

    How will country-based mitigation measures influence the course of the COVID-19 epidemic? Roy M Anderson, Hans Heesterbeek, Don Klinkenberg, T Déirdre Hollingsworth. Published March 09, 2020

    This is a pretty much up-to-date must-read on mitigation measures. Anderson (who's at Imperial, for those who are partisan about these things) is a legend in the field of infectious disease modelling.

    But interestingly, I don't think anyone who's been following PB closely over the past few days will find much new in it. Perhaps an indication of just how tricky the contact-tracing is? Indication of what the experts really think (as distinct from commentariat froth) and what uncertainties they face? Definitely the better comments below-the-line on PB have maintained a high quality of discussion and I don't think there's much here that's been missed.

    This was a key point:
    How individuals respond to advice on how best to prevent transmission will be as important as government actions, if not more important...
    One thing the article fails to consider in any detail is how government actions might shape individuals' responses. If government doesn't seem to be taking it particularly seriously for now, a large number of people will not do so, either.
    Panic buying bog-roll is a good leading indicator that the public are starting to take this virus seriously. I hope so anyway.
    I buy a little bit more each time I go. I've accumulated quite a stockpile now, without looking like a panic buyer.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,899

    RobD said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    Did they post the number negative yesterday? You can see if the test rate is increasing in line with detection.
    Cumulative total tests past 4 days.

    21461
    23513
    24960
    26261

    So tests past 3 days

    2052
    1447
    1301

    Surely we should be testing more people every day, not less? I presume weekend effect.
    Given we are staying at over 95% of tests being negative it seems like we are surely doing ok on the testing front right now.
    Wasn't the testing criteria about to change as well? Is that having an effect?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    glw said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    It could be the effect of some behavioural changes. If people are panic buying soap and so on, hopefully it means they are actually washing their hands more. I suspect we are already seeing the effects of some voluntary event cancellations and home working as well. Basically there must be a fair bit of already doing what the government is about to mandate.
    My company has just moved to 80% homeworking today. Only short collab periods Monday and Tuesday otherwise 100% remote for all workers.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089
    I doubt Aaron will waste his personal capital on an almost certain failed rebellion led by IDS.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    Tell them they can come and spy on as much as they like if they send over all that equipment and staff from Wuhan.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Lennon said:

    RobD said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    Did they post the number negative yesterday? You can see if the test rate is increasing in line with detection.
    Cumulative total tests past 4 days.

    21461
    23513
    24960
    26261

    So tests past 3 days

    2052
    1447
    1301

    Surely we should be testing more people every day, not less? I presume weekend effect.
    Good news on the number of new infections counter-balanced by disappointing news on the number of tests done. If capacity cannot keep up with demand, which surely it can't now, then I wonder if the plan is to switch to a more clinical diagnosis at some point.
    It might seem odd but I recollect there being fewer tests reported on Monday/Tuesday last week and someone (?Foxy) explained that as being due to a 24-48 hour turnaround time and fewer labs (and hence tests) working on the weekend... agree that I would have hoped we could be accelerating the tests more than we have done - not sure what / how we do that....
    Apparently PHE have been doing all the testing themselves. I assumed each hospital was processing their own home-brews but no.

    I read yesterday that the plan is to allow hospitals to do their own testing, effectively doubling capacity to something like 4000 a day.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755
    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fpt, still worth a read.

    Something from the Lancet that I think anyone should read before continuing to discuss pros/cons of what we "should" be doing...

    How will country-based mitigation measures influence the course of the COVID-19 epidemic? Roy M Anderson, Hans Heesterbeek, Don Klinkenberg, T Déirdre Hollingsworth. Published March 09, 2020

    This is a pretty much up-to-date must-read on mitigation measures. Anderson (who's at Imperial, for those who are partisan about these things) is a legend in the field of infectious disease modelling.

    But interestingly, I don't think anyone who's been following PB closely over the past few days will find much new in it. Perhaps an indication of just how tricky the contact-tracing is? Indication of what the experts really think (as distinct from commentariat froth) and what uncertainties they face? Definitely the better comments below-the-line on PB have maintained a high quality of discussion and I don't think there's much here that's been missed.

    This was a key point:
    How individuals respond to advice on how best to prevent transmission will be as important as government actions, if not more important...
    One thing the article fails to consider in any detail is how government actions might shape individuals' responses. If government doesn't seem to be taking it particularly seriously for now, a large number of people will not do so, either.
    Panic buying bog-roll is a good leading indicator that the public are starting to take this virus seriously. I hope so anyway.
    I buy a little bit more each time I go. I've accumulated quite a stockpile now, without looking like a panic buyer.
    Just hold it all in and you'll have even more.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,846
    RobD said:

    Anorak said:

    Encouraging. And from a country with (I would hope) a good detection and reporting regime.
    https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1237362407506313216

    SK may be an odd comparator as so much of their initial transmission was within a large but relatively easily traced and tested cluster (that religious movement). That will have affected the temporal pattern of their test results.

    In contrast it doesn't sound from public statements like the UK authorities have managed to get a handle on any of our homegrown clusters, let alone isolate and deal with them. They do seem pretty sure we have a few, but presumably small or in their early stages.
    Do we even know where the UK clusters are? "NorthWest" says a lot less than, say, Manchester or Lancaster.

    Does anyone know?
    Torbay is one of them.
    And sufficient London Boroughs to indicate that London will soon be topping the table, as NYC is now in the US
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited March 2020

    Lennon said:

    RobD said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    Did they post the number negative yesterday? You can see if the test rate is increasing in line with detection.
    Cumulative total tests past 4 days.

    21461
    23513
    24960
    26261

    So tests past 3 days

    2052
    1447
    1301

    Surely we should be testing more people every day, not less? I presume weekend effect.
    Good news on the number of new infections counter-balanced by disappointing news on the number of tests done. If capacity cannot keep up with demand, which surely it can't now, then I wonder if the plan is to switch to a more clinical diagnosis at some point.
    It might seem odd but I recollect there being fewer tests reported on Monday/Tuesday last week and someone (?Foxy) explained that as being due to a 24-48 hour turnaround time and fewer labs (and hence tests) working on the weekend... agree that I would have hoped we could be accelerating the tests more than we have done - not sure what / how we do that....
    Apparently PHE have been doing all the testing themselves. I assumed each hospital was processing their own home-brews but no.

    I read yesterday that the plan is to allow hospitals to do their own testing, effectively doubling capacity to something like 4000 a day.
    SK has the ability run about 15,000 diagnostic test per day...This is the sort of capacity we need.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,933

    nichomar said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    There is a lot of talk (On Twitter, I know) about people who on ringing 111 are being asked after they have described symptoms if they have been to a high risk are or in contact with someone who has, if they reply no they are told they have flu and aren’t being tested.
    What we don't know is the other symptoms they might have and are actually very uncommon if you have it e.g. runny nose. It may well be all these folk on twitter ringing up aren't thinking about these additional questions they have been asked and think yes I told them I had a runny nose, so what.
    Perhaps not.

    Clinical presentation and virological assessment of hospitalized cases of coronavirus disease 2019 in a travel-associated transmission cluster
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.05.20030502v1
    ....Proof of active viral replication in upper respiratory tract tissues was obtained by detection of subgenomic viral RNA. Shedding of viral RNA from sputum outlasted the end of symptoms. Seroconversion occurred after about one week. Conclusions: The present study shows that COVID-19 can often present as a common cold-like illness. SARS-CoV-2 can actively replicate in the upper respiratory tract, and is shed for a prolonged time after symptoms end, including in stool. These findings suggest adjustments of current case definitions and re-evaluation of the prospects of outbreak containment....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited March 2020
    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    Anorak said:

    Encouraging. And from a country with (I would hope) a good detection and reporting regime.
    https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1237362407506313216

    SK may be an odd comparator as so much of their initial transmission was within a large but relatively easily traced and tested cluster (that religious movement). That will have affected the temporal pattern of their test results.

    In contrast it doesn't sound from public statements like the UK authorities have managed to get a handle on any of our homegrown clusters, let alone isolate and deal with them. They do seem pretty sure we have a few, but presumably small or in their early stages.
    Do we even know where the UK clusters are? "NorthWest" says a lot less than, say, Manchester or Lancaster.

    Does anyone know?
    Torbay is one of them.
    And sufficient London Boroughs to indicate that London will soon be topping the table, as NYC is now in the US
    If the government do implement some sort of inner M25 quarantine zone, lets pray they don't f##k it up like Italy and have everybody running to the 4 corners of the land. Needs to be announced at 2-3am and immediate.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569
    It looks as if we are about 6 weeks behind Korea, which

    Anorak said:

    Encouraging. And from a country with (I would hope) a good detection and reporting regime.
    https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1237362407506313216

    SK may be an odd comparator as so much of their initial transmission was within a large but relatively easily traced and tested cluster (that religious movement). That will have affected the temporal pattern of their test results.

    In contrast it doesn't sound from public statements like the UK authorities have managed to get a handle on any of our homegrown clusters, let alone isolate and deal with them. They do seem pretty sure we have a few, but presumably small or in their early stages.
    Do we even know where the UK clusters are? "NorthWest" says a lot less than, say, Manchester or Lancaster.

    Does anyone know?
    Looking at the geography of what we do know, it seems to be fairly diffuse, with no clear nodal points.

    Older sicker people catching it suggests domestic transmission likely.

    North Korea not sounding good.

    Coronavirus Kills 180 North Korean Soldiers, Thousands More Quarantined: Report https://www.theepochtimes.com/coronavirus-kills-180-north-korean-soldiers-thousands-more-quarantined-report_3266322.html
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922
    Nigelb said:

    nichomar said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    There is a lot of talk (On Twitter, I know) about people who on ringing 111 are being asked after they have described symptoms if they have been to a high risk are or in contact with someone who has, if they reply no they are told they have flu and aren’t being tested.
    What we don't know is the other symptoms they might have and are actually very uncommon if you have it e.g. runny nose. It may well be all these folk on twitter ringing up aren't thinking about these additional questions they have been asked and think yes I told them I had a runny nose, so what.
    Perhaps not.

    Clinical presentation and virological assessment of hospitalized cases of coronavirus disease 2019 in a travel-associated transmission cluster
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.05.20030502v1
    ....Proof of active viral replication in upper respiratory tract tissues was obtained by detection of subgenomic viral RNA. Shedding of viral RNA from sputum outlasted the end of symptoms. Seroconversion occurred after about one week. Conclusions: The present study shows that COVID-19 can often present as a common cold-like illness. SARS-CoV-2 can actively replicate in the upper respiratory tract, and is shed for a prolonged time after symptoms end, including in stool. These findings suggest adjustments of current case definitions and re-evaluation of the prospects of outbreak containment....
    I thought a runny nose/sneezing was not a symptom. This doesn't appear to suggest otherwise.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2020/03/10/coronablog-10-maart-a3993219

    In a random sample of 301 employees of the Elisabeth-TweeSteden Hospital in Tilburg, 28 Covid-19 infections were discovered, the hospital announces on Tuesday. The test was carried out last weekend among employees who had mild respiratory complaints. It is noteworthy that the hospital staff tested were not at risk and had no contact with patients who had been diagnosed with an infection.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    Nigelb said:

    nichomar said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    There is a lot of talk (On Twitter, I know) about people who on ringing 111 are being asked after they have described symptoms if they have been to a high risk are or in contact with someone who has, if they reply no they are told they have flu and aren’t being tested.
    What we don't know is the other symptoms they might have and are actually very uncommon if you have it e.g. runny nose. It may well be all these folk on twitter ringing up aren't thinking about these additional questions they have been asked and think yes I told them I had a runny nose, so what.
    Perhaps not.

    Clinical presentation and virological assessment of hospitalized cases of coronavirus disease 2019 in a travel-associated transmission cluster
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.05.20030502v1
    ....Proof of active viral replication in upper respiratory tract tissues was obtained by detection of subgenomic viral RNA. Shedding of viral RNA from sputum outlasted the end of symptoms. Seroconversion occurred after about one week. Conclusions: The present study shows that COVID-19 can often present as a common cold-like illness. SARS-CoV-2 can actively replicate in the upper respiratory tract, and is shed for a prolonged time after symptoms end, including in stool. These findings suggest adjustments of current case definitions and re-evaluation of the prospects of outbreak containment....
    I am not going to chase down the paper, but in a large cohort study, only a very small percentage of people who had it also had a runny nose. I think in the range of 10%.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123

    Lennon said:

    RobD said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    Did they post the number negative yesterday? You can see if the test rate is increasing in line with detection.
    Cumulative total tests past 4 days.

    21461
    23513
    24960
    26261

    So tests past 3 days

    2052
    1447
    1301

    Surely we should be testing more people every day, not less? I presume weekend effect.
    Good news on the number of new infections counter-balanced by disappointing news on the number of tests done. If capacity cannot keep up with demand, which surely it can't now, then I wonder if the plan is to switch to a more clinical diagnosis at some point.
    It might seem odd but I recollect there being fewer tests reported on Monday/Tuesday last week and someone (?Foxy) explained that as being due to a 24-48 hour turnaround time and fewer labs (and hence tests) working on the weekend... agree that I would have hoped we could be accelerating the tests more than we have done - not sure what / how we do that....
    Apparently PHE have been doing all the testing themselves. I assumed each hospital was processing their own home-brews but no.

    I read yesterday that the plan is to allow hospitals to do their own testing, effectively doubling capacity to something like 4000 a day.
    SK has the ability run about 15,000 diagnostic test per day...This is the sort of capacity we need.
    I think they have mix of different tests whch allows them to get those higher numbers.

    In their rapid access clinic they are running a different form of test which is less sensitive but much faster. This is probably for screening the worried but well who are rocking up in cars.

    For confirmatory diagnosis on a smaller sample they will be using a similar method to us - a PCR-based assay which requires 48 hours to process.

    That's what I am guessing anyway.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,899

    glw said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    It could be the effect of some behavioural changes. If people are panic buying soap and so on, hopefully it means they are actually washing their hands more. I suspect we are already seeing the effects of some voluntary event cancellations and home working as well. Basically there must be a fair bit of already doing what the government is about to mandate.
    My company has just moved to 80% homeworking today. Only short collab periods Monday and Tuesday otherwise 100% remote for all workers.
    That's what I was getting at, although I broadly agree that the goverment should say "JFDI" it does seem that a lot of companies are already implementing travel bans, visitor bans, inter-site movement bans, and home working where possible.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    nichomar said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    There is a lot of talk (On Twitter, I know) about people who on ringing 111 are being asked after they have described symptoms if they have been to a high risk are or in contact with someone who has, if they reply no they are told they have flu and aren’t being tested.
    What we don't know is the other symptoms they might have and are actually very uncommon if you have it e.g. runny nose. It may well be all these folk on twitter ringing up aren't thinking about these additional questions they have been asked and think yes I told them I had a runny nose, so what.
    Perhaps not.

    Clinical presentation and virological assessment of hospitalized cases of coronavirus disease 2019 in a travel-associated transmission cluster
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.05.20030502v1
    ....Proof of active viral replication in upper respiratory tract tissues was obtained by detection of subgenomic viral RNA. Shedding of viral RNA from sputum outlasted the end of symptoms. Seroconversion occurred after about one week. Conclusions: The present study shows that COVID-19 can often present as a common cold-like illness. SARS-CoV-2 can actively replicate in the upper respiratory tract, and is shed for a prolonged time after symptoms end, including in stool. These findings suggest adjustments of current case definitions and re-evaluation of the prospects of outbreak containment....
    I thought a runny nose/sneezing was not a symptom. This doesn't appear to suggest otherwise.
    I have had a bit of a runny nose for a few days now, but no fever or aches and pains.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813

    Lennon said:

    RobD said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    Did they post the number negative yesterday? You can see if the test rate is increasing in line with detection.
    Cumulative total tests past 4 days.

    21461
    23513
    24960
    26261

    So tests past 3 days

    2052
    1447
    1301

    Surely we should be testing more people every day, not less? I presume weekend effect.
    Good news on the number of new infections counter-balanced by disappointing news on the number of tests done. If capacity cannot keep up with demand, which surely it can't now, then I wonder if the plan is to switch to a more clinical diagnosis at some point.
    It might seem odd but I recollect there being fewer tests reported on Monday/Tuesday last week and someone (?Foxy) explained that as being due to a 24-48 hour turnaround time and fewer labs (and hence tests) working on the weekend... agree that I would have hoped we could be accelerating the tests more than we have done - not sure what / how we do that....
    Apparently PHE have been doing all the testing themselves. I assumed each hospital was processing their own home-brews but no.

    I read yesterday that the plan is to allow hospitals to do their own testing, effectively doubling capacity to something like 4000 a day.
    SK has the ability run about 15,000 diagnostic test per day...This is the sort of capacity we need.
    I think they have mix of different tests whch allows them to get those higher numbers.

    In their rapid access clinic they are running a different form of test which is less sensitive but much faster. This is probably for screening the worried but well who are rocking up in cars.

    For confirmatory diagnosis on a smaller sample they will be using a similar method to us - a PCR-based assay which requires 48 hours to process.

    That's what I am guessing anyway.
    Lets get bloody doing that then...get the SeanT's of this world screened with the less sensitive test and not bogging down 111.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,933
    RobD said:

    Anorak said:

    Encouraging. And from a country with (I would hope) a good detection and reporting regime.
    https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1237362407506313216

    SK may be an odd comparator as so much of their initial transmission was within a large but relatively easily traced and tested cluster (that religious movement). That will have affected the temporal pattern of their test results.

    In contrast it doesn't sound from public statements like the UK authorities have managed to get a handle on any of our homegrown clusters, let alone isolate and deal with them. They do seem pretty sure we have a few, but presumably small or in their early stages.
    Do we even know where the UK clusters are? "NorthWest" says a lot less than, say, Manchester or Lancaster.

    Does anyone know?
    Torbay is one of them.
    Details by local authority here (as of yesterday):
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-number-of-cases-in-england/coronavirus-covid-19-number-of-cases-in-england
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509

    Sandpit said:

    Putin could yet be in power for rather longer:
    https://twitter.com/nytimesworld/status/1237367431099801601

    Will any other political leader, citing the need for stability, be bold enough to follow Vladimir Vladimirovich's lead?
    How long will Russia remain stable, if the oil price sticks at $20 or $25?

    The Arabs reckon they can ride it out for a while with currency reserves, how long can Putin go?

    In totally unrelated news, rouble down 15% vs US$ in the past week.
    His lack of cooperation with OPEC seems to indicate he is aware of his limitations.
    If the Arabs reckon as you said, are they reckoning correctly? What's your take, close as you are?
    Well, MBS and MBZ are as bullish as they always are, they have a lot of cash reserves and state-owned businesses that can be floated - but against that the travel market seizing up is going to hurt them, as well as the low oil price. Local currencies are fixed wrt the US$, so that's neutral, and the population (of locals) are happy and well looked-after by the state. Inflation is close to zero, and large expatriate populations reduce the burden of layoffs if the economy contracts.

    I don't know as much about Russia, but Wiki reckons their budget deficit is currently 3% of GDP (15% of govt spending). Certainly there's more scope for downside if inflation takes off and imports get more expensive, but they are self-sufficient in food and most essential goods, and Putin is generally well-liked by the population despite (or perhaps because) of his reputation abroad.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123

    Lennon said:

    RobD said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    Did they post the number negative yesterday? You can see if the test rate is increasing in line with detection.
    Cumulative total tests past 4 days.

    21461
    23513
    24960
    26261

    So tests past 3 days

    2052
    1447
    1301

    Surely we should be testing more people every day, not less? I presume weekend effect.
    Good news on the number of new infections counter-balanced by disappointing news on the number of tests done. If capacity cannot keep up with demand, which surely it can't now, then I wonder if the plan is to switch to a more clinical diagnosis at some point.
    It might seem odd but I recollect there being fewer tests reported on Monday/Tuesday last week and someone (?Foxy) explained that as being due to a 24-48 hour turnaround time and fewer labs (and hence tests) working on the weekend... agree that I would have hoped we could be accelerating the tests more than we have done - not sure what / how we do that....
    Apparently PHE have been doing all the testing themselves. I assumed each hospital was processing their own home-brews but no.

    I read yesterday that the plan is to allow hospitals to do their own testing, effectively doubling capacity to something like 4000 a day.
    SK has the ability run about 15,000 diagnostic test per day...This is the sort of capacity we need.
    I think they have mix of different tests whch allows them to get those higher numbers.

    In their rapid access clinic they are running a different form of test which is less sensitive but much faster. This is probably for screening the worried but well who are rocking up in cars.

    For confirmatory diagnosis on a smaller sample they will be using a similar method to us - a PCR-based assay which requires 48 hours to process.

    That's what I am guessing anyway.
    Lets get bloody doing that then...get the SeanT's of this world screened with the less sensitive test and not bogging down 111.
    Agreed. I very much hope best-practice is being shared.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,933

    Nigelb said:

    nichomar said:

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    There is a lot of talk (On Twitter, I know) about people who on ringing 111 are being asked after they have described symptoms if they have been to a high risk are or in contact with someone who has, if they reply no they are told they have flu and aren’t being tested.
    What we don't know is the other symptoms they might have and are actually very uncommon if you have it e.g. runny nose. It may well be all these folk on twitter ringing up aren't thinking about these additional questions they have been asked and think yes I told them I had a runny nose, so what.
    Perhaps not.

    Clinical presentation and virological assessment of hospitalized cases of coronavirus disease 2019 in a travel-associated transmission cluster
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.05.20030502v1
    ....Proof of active viral replication in upper respiratory tract tissues was obtained by detection of subgenomic viral RNA. Shedding of viral RNA from sputum outlasted the end of symptoms. Seroconversion occurred after about one week. Conclusions: The present study shows that COVID-19 can often present as a common cold-like illness. SARS-CoV-2 can actively replicate in the upper respiratory tract, and is shed for a prolonged time after symptoms end, including in stool. These findings suggest adjustments of current case definitions and re-evaluation of the prospects of outbreak containment....
    I am not going to chase down the paper, but in a large cohort study, only a very small percentage of people who had it also had a runny nose. I think in the range of 10%.
    Sure.

    My point was that the cost of telling everyone (for a limited period of time) with a cold to stay at home is hardly an excessive burden on society.

    And will also cut down on the number of colds and flu cases out there.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited March 2020
    Most of the cases imported into the UK are from Italy and caused by the entitled middle-classes taking their unnecessary skiing holidays.

    Their supermarkets of choice are Waitrose & Marks and Spencer.

    So, I recommend Aldi/Lidl/Tesco for maximum safety when panic-buying.

    Also, for the good of your health, avoid any gathering of the entitled middle-classes.

    Like this one, taking place in 3 days time,

    https://www.libdems.org.uk/spring-conference
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited March 2020


    Most of the cases imported into the UK are from Italy and caused by the entitled middle-classes taking their unnecessary skiing holidays.

    Their supermarkets of choice are Waitrose & Marks and Spencer.

    So, I recommend Aldi/Lidl/Tesco for maximum safety when panic-buying.

    Also, for the good of your health, avoid any gathering of the entitled middle-classes.

    Like this one on, taking place in 3 days time,

    https://www.libdems.org.uk/spring-conference

    My biggest fear with the numbers not on the surface looking too bad (we all know exponential growth and all that), is that those kind of people are going to bugger off on their Easter holidays as normal.

    I was having to explain yesterday to such types about yes 40 increase isn't many, but....
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,798

    IanB2 said:

    RobD said:

    Anorak said:

    Encouraging. And from a country with (I would hope) a good detection and reporting regime.
    https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1237362407506313216

    SK may be an odd comparator as so much of their initial transmission was within a large but relatively easily traced and tested cluster (that religious movement). That will have affected the temporal pattern of their test results.

    In contrast it doesn't sound from public statements like the UK authorities have managed to get a handle on any of our homegrown clusters, let alone isolate and deal with them. They do seem pretty sure we have a few, but presumably small or in their early stages.
    Do we even know where the UK clusters are? "NorthWest" says a lot less than, say, Manchester or Lancaster.

    Does anyone know?
    Torbay is one of them.
    And sufficient London Boroughs to indicate that London will soon be topping the table, as NYC is now in the US
    If the government do implement some sort of inner M25 quarantine zone, lets pray they don't f##k it up like Italy and have everybody running to the 4 corners of the land. Needs to be announced at 2-3am and immediate.
    Except it doesnt. It will be present across the country anyway, they are trying to manage the levels of the virus, not eliminate it. This is because they are more scared by a second peak next winter than a manageable peak in April/May. So if they stop most people moving around the country that is all they were ever trying to achieve.

    A travel ban will be mostly voluntary, effective because 90% of the people adhere to it, not something they need to enforce in a draconian fashion.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,037
    Sandpit said:

    Putin could yet be in power for rather longer:
    https://twitter.com/nytimesworld/status/1237367431099801601

    Will any other political leader, citing the need for stability, be bold enough to follow Vladimir Vladimirovich's lead?
    How long will Russia remain stable, if the oil price sticks at $20 or $25?

    The Arabs reckon they can ride it out for a while with currency reserves, how long can Putin go?

    In totally unrelated news, rouble down 15% vs US$ in the past week.
    Oil extraction costs are much higher in Russia than in most of the Gulf, so it's even more serious than that. In Saudi or the UAE, the marginal cost of production is perhaps only $10-12/barrel. So, $25 oil sucks, but at least they're making $15 of gross profit per barrel.

    In Russia, the average cost of production is almost certainly in the high $20s, and for some fields will be much higher. This means Russia will actually be losing money on each barrel it produces. This should mean they shutter fields... but doing that can effect long-term recovery rates. So they'll keep pumping, even if it means they hemorrhage cash.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited March 2020

    Most of the cases imported into the UK are from Italy and caused by the entitled middle-classes taking their unnecessary skiing holidays.

    Their supermarkets of choice are Waitrose & Marks and Spencer.

    So, I recommend Aldi/Lidl/Tesco for maximum safety when panic-buying.

    Also, for the good of your health, avoid any gathering of the entitled middle-classes.

    Like this one, taking place in 3 days time,

    https://www.libdems.org.uk/spring-conference

    The thing is if one does change from shopping in Waitrose to the likes of Lidl, does one not run the risk of catching some other horrible disease that circulates among the peasants?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited March 2020
    Oh shitty shit shit...

    A TOP British surgeon who has tested positive for coronavirus may have infected hundreds of vulnerable patients as he failed to self-isolate after contracting the killer bug on holiday in Italy.

    The dad, who operates on anyone with a range of conditions from cancer to sinus disease, did not self-isolate and carried on with his work as usual.

    It is believed he attended a team meeting at the hospital last Wednesday alongside dozens of other surgeons - who all went on to treat patients not knowing they may have come into contact with the killer virus.

    He was asked to go home by the hospital later in the day after he started to feel ill and has since tested positive for coronavirus.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11138167/top-brit-surgeon-positive-coronavirus/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,569
    Cyclefree said:

    On topic, not Layla, please. She seems to combine all the worst aspects of Jo Swinson plus a few added ones of her own.

    I like Layla, and she has a good fresh media style.

    Not sure I would want her as leader, despite that.
  • Most of the cases imported into the UK are from Italy and caused by the entitled middle-classes taking their unnecessary skiing holidays.

    Their supermarkets of choice are Waitrose & Marks and Spencer.

    So, I recommend Aldi/Lidl/Tesco for maximum safety when panic-buying.

    Also, for the good of your health, avoid any gathering of the entitled middle-classes.

    Like this one, taking place in 3 days time,

    https://www.libdems.org.uk/spring-conference

    The thing is if one does change from shopping in Waitrose to the likes of Lidl, does one not run the risk of catching some other horrible disease that circulates among the peasants?
    Indeed, I've often suggested to Waitrose and Sainsbury's that only higher rate taxpayers be allowed to be shop there.

    If you need to use a peasant wagon to get to Waitrose/MS/Sainsbury's then you should NOT be allowed in.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,037

    Royal Caribbean now junk bond status according to Bloomberg Markets

    The plunge in oil prices could see some big energy names go the same way, according to some analysts.

    Oxy, Apache, Marathon and Hess all cited as at risk.
    A lot of the Permian basin drillers have borrowed well beyond cash flows, because investors rewarded growth not profitability. There will be a lot of bankrupcies there.

    And, of course, the oil service names that have borrowed to build rigs that they rent to oil companies will be in trouble too.

    Private debt funds have lent a lot of the money. Those funds are still pretending everything is OK.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922

    Oh shitty shit shit...

    A TOP British surgeon who has tested positive for coronavirus may have infected hundreds of vulnerable patients as he failed to self-isolate after contracting the killer bug on holiday in Italy.

    The dad, who operates on anyone with a range of conditions from cancer to sinus disease, did not self-isolate and carried on with his work as usual.

    It is believed he attended a team meeting at the hospital last Wednesday alongside dozens of other surgeons - who all went on to treat patients not knowing they may have come into contact with the killer virus.

    He was asked to go home by the hospital later in the day after he started to feel ill and has since tested positive for coronavirus.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11138167/top-brit-surgeon-positive-coronavirus/

    What a knob.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    edited March 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Putin could yet be in power for rather longer:
    https://twitter.com/nytimesworld/status/1237367431099801601

    Will any other political leader, citing the need for stability, be bold enough to follow Vladimir Vladimirovich's lead?
    How long will Russia remain stable, if the oil price sticks at $20 or $25?

    The Arabs reckon they can ride it out for a while with currency reserves, how long can Putin go?

    In totally unrelated news, rouble down 15% vs US$ in the past week.
    Oil extraction costs are much higher in Russia than in most of the Gulf, so it's even more serious than that. In Saudi or the UAE, the marginal cost of production is perhaps only $10-12/barrel. So, $25 oil sucks, but at least they're making $15 of gross profit per barrel.

    In Russia, the average cost of production is almost certainly in the high $20s, and for some fields will be much higher. This means Russia will actually be losing money on each barrel it produces. This should mean they shutter fields... but doing that can effect long-term recovery rates. So they'll keep pumping, even if it means they hemorrhage cash.
    I knew someone would know more about the Russian oil market. Thanks!

    Saudi Aramco reckon their marginal cost is $2.80 / barrel. It's going to be more than that in practice, but yes the Arabs can go a lot lower than the Russians.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152
    RobD said:

    Oh shitty shit shit...

    A TOP British surgeon who has tested positive for coronavirus may have infected hundreds of vulnerable patients as he failed to self-isolate after contracting the killer bug on holiday in Italy.

    The dad, who operates on anyone with a range of conditions from cancer to sinus disease, did not self-isolate and carried on with his work as usual.

    It is believed he attended a team meeting at the hospital last Wednesday alongside dozens of other surgeons - who all went on to treat patients not knowing they may have come into contact with the killer virus.

    He was asked to go home by the hospital later in the day after he started to feel ill and has since tested positive for coronavirus.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11138167/top-brit-surgeon-positive-coronavirus/

    What a knob.
    Hmm, I bet he was asked to keep working - don't want to delay operations etc. etc.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922

    Most of the cases imported into the UK are from Italy and caused by the entitled middle-classes taking their unnecessary skiing holidays.

    Their supermarkets of choice are Waitrose & Marks and Spencer.

    So, I recommend Aldi/Lidl/Tesco for maximum safety when panic-buying.

    Also, for the good of your health, avoid any gathering of the entitled middle-classes.

    Like this one, taking place in 3 days time,

    https://www.libdems.org.uk/spring-conference

    The thing is if one does change from shopping in Waitrose to the likes of Lidl, does one not run the risk of catching some other horrible disease that circulates among the peasants?
    Indeed, I've often suggested to Waitrose and Sainsbury's that only higher rate taxpayers be allowed to be shop there.

    If you need to use a peasant wagon to get to Waitrose/MS/Sainsbury's then you should NOT be allowed in.
    Please, additional rate only.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    Reading all the different countries announcing cases, just so many appear to have exported all around Europe from those skiing in Northern Italy, you wonder just how it broke out there, how long it has been circulating. It literally must have been everywhere.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089
    Surgeon works at Aintree too......

    Liverpool FC & Grand National implications ?
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    So past 2 days, increase of 17% each day...compared to 30-40% daily increases across the previous week.

    That should be good news, but I think it is concerning...are we now not testing enough people? Or are we going to get the explosion in numbers in the next 2-3 days?

    Unless I am missing something, if we are still only testing around 1000 people a day and there is a 4 day delay in getting the results then surely, by definition, there can't be a huge leap in confirmed cases.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,037

    Most of the cases imported into the UK are from Italy and caused by the entitled middle-classes taking their unnecessary skiing holidays.

    Their supermarkets of choice are Waitrose & Marks and Spencer.

    So, I recommend Aldi/Lidl/Tesco for maximum safety when panic-buying.

    Also, for the good of your health, avoid any gathering of the entitled middle-classes.

    Like this one, taking place in 3 days time,

    https://www.libdems.org.uk/spring-conference

    There's nothing unnecessary about a skiing holiday.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    tlg86 said:

    RobD said:

    Oh shitty shit shit...

    A TOP British surgeon who has tested positive for coronavirus may have infected hundreds of vulnerable patients as he failed to self-isolate after contracting the killer bug on holiday in Italy.

    The dad, who operates on anyone with a range of conditions from cancer to sinus disease, did not self-isolate and carried on with his work as usual.

    It is believed he attended a team meeting at the hospital last Wednesday alongside dozens of other surgeons - who all went on to treat patients not knowing they may have come into contact with the killer virus.

    He was asked to go home by the hospital later in the day after he started to feel ill and has since tested positive for coronavirus.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11138167/top-brit-surgeon-positive-coronavirus/

    What a knob.
    Hmm, I bet he was asked to keep working - don't want to delay operations etc. etc.
    Keep calm and carry on, with a sniffle.
  • Dow going negative now 23,825
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437
    Cant Russia store the oil and loan money, with the oil as security?
  • Reading all the different countries announcing cases, just so many appear to have exported all around Europe from those skiing in Northern Italy, you wonder just how it broke out there, how long it has been circulating. It literally must have been everywhere.

    The UK's super spreader had visited the Alps for a skiing holiday so I have this belief that the coronavirus spreads more in really cold environments.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,933
    That is not very well worded, as it suggests you can be arrested for buying food....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited March 2020
    Again, very interesting that it seems some people might have a built in immunity to this disease...

    Malta has confirmed its fifth case of Covid-19, the Times of Malta reports, after an existing patient’s daughter tested positive for the coronavirus. The 16-year-old was reported to be in good health. She and her father, 49, had been on a ski trip to Trentino Alto Adige in Italy between 23-27 February, returning via Treviso.

    Her mother tested negative for the virus.


    This mirrors the story of a British guy who again got it skiing in Northern Italy. He spent all his time with his wife, they returned, he felt ill, she looked after him for over a week, she tested negative.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089
    Warren has pulled ahead of Bloomberg in California.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Most of the cases imported into the UK are from Italy and caused by the entitled middle-classes taking their unnecessary skiing holidays.

    Their supermarkets of choice are Waitrose & Marks and Spencer.

    So, I recommend Aldi/Lidl/Tesco for maximum safety when panic-buying.

    Also, for the good of your health, avoid any gathering of the entitled middle-classes.

    Like this one, taking place in 3 days time,

    https://www.libdems.org.uk/spring-conference

    I bump into the local dowager Countess in Lidl quite often, and other members of her peer (ha!) group. Nowhere is safe.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,037

    Oh shitty shit shit...

    A TOP British surgeon who has tested positive for coronavirus may have infected hundreds of vulnerable patients as he failed to self-isolate after contracting the killer bug on holiday in Italy.

    The dad, who operates on anyone with a range of conditions from cancer to sinus disease, did not self-isolate and carried on with his work as usual.

    It is believed he attended a team meeting at the hospital last Wednesday alongside dozens of other surgeons - who all went on to treat patients not knowing they may have come into contact with the killer virus.

    He was asked to go home by the hospital later in the day after he started to feel ill and has since tested positive for coronavirus.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11138167/top-brit-surgeon-positive-coronavirus/

    He'll have been wearing a mask and gloves during surgery, so I wouldn't worry too much.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    rcs1000 said:

    Royal Caribbean now junk bond status according to Bloomberg Markets

    The plunge in oil prices could see some big energy names go the same way, according to some analysts.

    Oxy, Apache, Marathon and Hess all cited as at risk.
    A lot of the Permian basin drillers have borrowed well beyond cash flows, because investors rewarded growth not profitability. There will be a lot of bankrupcies there.

    And, of course, the oil service names that have borrowed to build rigs that they rent to oil companies will be in trouble too.

    Private debt funds have lent a lot of the money. Those funds are still pretending everything is OK.
    Quite although I understand the Permian guys are a bit more resilient to price falls after the Saudis tried to shut them down in 2016.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    rcs1000 said:

    Oh shitty shit shit...

    A TOP British surgeon who has tested positive for coronavirus may have infected hundreds of vulnerable patients as he failed to self-isolate after contracting the killer bug on holiday in Italy.

    The dad, who operates on anyone with a range of conditions from cancer to sinus disease, did not self-isolate and carried on with his work as usual.

    It is believed he attended a team meeting at the hospital last Wednesday alongside dozens of other surgeons - who all went on to treat patients not knowing they may have come into contact with the killer virus.

    He was asked to go home by the hospital later in the day after he started to feel ill and has since tested positive for coronavirus.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11138167/top-brit-surgeon-positive-coronavirus/

    He'll have been wearing a mask and gloves during surgery, so I wouldn't worry too much.
    What about all the chats before / after surgery? Where they often like to come around and check that everything is in order. Also the meeting with all the other surgeons.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,933

    Oh shitty shit shit...

    A TOP British surgeon who has tested positive for coronavirus may have infected hundreds of vulnerable patients as he failed to self-isolate after contracting the killer bug on holiday in Italy.

    The dad, who operates on anyone with a range of conditions from cancer to sinus disease, did not self-isolate and carried on with his work as usual.

    It is believed he attended a team meeting at the hospital last Wednesday alongside dozens of other surgeons - who all went on to treat patients not knowing they may have come into contact with the killer virus.

    He was asked to go home by the hospital later in the day after he started to feel ill and has since tested positive for coronavirus.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11138167/top-brit-surgeon-positive-coronavirus/

    Partly the consequence of equivocal official guidance at the time.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922
    IshmaelZ said:

    Most of the cases imported into the UK are from Italy and caused by the entitled middle-classes taking their unnecessary skiing holidays.

    Their supermarkets of choice are Waitrose & Marks and Spencer.

    So, I recommend Aldi/Lidl/Tesco for maximum safety when panic-buying.

    Also, for the good of your health, avoid any gathering of the entitled middle-classes.

    Like this one, taking place in 3 days time,

    https://www.libdems.org.uk/spring-conference

    I bump into the local dowager Countess in Lidl quite often, and other members of her peer (ha!) group. Nowhere is safe.
    Peers of the realm are famous for not actually having any money. So not entirely surprising :p
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Reading all the different countries announcing cases, just so many appear to have exported all around Europe from those skiing in Northern Italy, you wonder just how it broke out there, how long it has been circulating. It literally must have been everywhere.

    The half-term skiing holiday in Northern Italy is the very preserve of the entitled Remainer middle-classes.

    So, we expect to see Coronavirus hotspots develop in the Remainer cities & towns. Brighton, Oxford, London, Herts.

    By contrast, nothing has been reported in the Welsh Valleys. The Rhondda, Ponty, Blaenau Gwent, Ebbw Vale -- all completely free of the virus.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    Reading all the different countries announcing cases, just so many appear to have exported all around Europe from those skiing in Northern Italy, you wonder just how it broke out there, how long it has been circulating. It literally must have been everywhere.

    That has been clear for some time. Very unfortunately, Italy missed the initial bout of infections.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,764
    6th corona death in the UK
This discussion has been closed.