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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » My money’s on Layla Moran for Jo Swinson’s old job

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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,610
    Some good news.

    Prof Jonathan Ball, an expert in molecular virology at the University of Nottingham: "There is little if any evidence that people can routinely transmit virus during the asymptomatic period." (BBC)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited March 2020

    Some good news.

    Prof Jonathan Ball, an expert in molecular virology at the University of Nottingham: "There is little if any evidence that people can routinely transmit virus during the asymptomatic period." (BBC)

    That's not what a number of papers on the preprint medical academic journal service say.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,610

    On topic I'm voting enthusiastically for Davey. The longer time goes on the more the buffoonery of the Tories will wind up all but the tiniest of brain. That leaves space in the middle for someone who looks relatable and not bonkers to ask the obvious questions and point to another way forward.

    On paper you might think Starmer could do that. Assuming that RLB isn't simply anointed as the winner having won over "the silent majority" of course. But if he does win despite the obvious ballot rigging he has had to triangulate so hard that he can't just shake off the lunatics and loony left policies - especially if a nutter is elected as deputy.

    Which leaves the LibDems. What goes down can go back up again. Davey presents himself well, has a sense of humour, asks smart questions, and can and will point to LibDem successes in government sadly lacking since 2015.

    He seems a much better bet for the party than Moran.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,401
    eristdoof said:

    Alistair said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Och, I was taking Nandy's car crash with a salty pinch, but If Arron's sockpuppet is saying it..
    Without even watching I'm going to guess that she said Trans people should have human rights.
    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/showbiz-tv/apologise-lisa-nandy-piers-morgan-17896046?

    Morgan insisted he was "not attacking transgender rights" and again demanded Nandy say whether she felt it was fair for trans athletes with "superior strength and power" to enter in women's competitions.
    Trans atheletes have been able to compete at Olympic events for 16 years now. I take it every single women's champion is a trans then?
    The female European shot-putt champion in 1986 is a trans, ... but the other way round. She sex-changed to Andreas Krieger after her athletics career to a large extent because of the steroids she was given.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Krieger
    It was serious problem with Eastern Bloc, particularly East German, female athletes.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922
    edited March 2020

    Some good news.

    Prof Jonathan Ball, an expert in molecular virology at the University of Nottingham: "There is little if any evidence that people can routinely transmit virus during the asymptomatic period." (BBC)

    That's not what a number of papers on the preprint medical academic journal service say.
    Perhaps he meant to say "there is little if any evidence that I have read"? :p
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,064

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Och, I was taking Nandy's car crash with a salty pinch, but If Arron's sockpuppet is saying it..
    Without even watching I'm going to guess that she said Trans people should have human rights.
    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/showbiz-tv/apologise-lisa-nandy-piers-morgan-17896046?

    Morgan insisted he was "not attacking transgender rights" and again demanded Nandy say whether she felt it was fair for trans athletes with "superior strength and power" to enter in women's competitions.
    It's an interesting question.

    Is it fair for athletes with superior strength and power to enter competitions.... ?
    Not if that superior strength and power is artificially attained, no it isn't.

    If its naturally attained with what you were born with, plus a good diet, hard work and exercise then yes it is.
    It depends which competitions. Should Tyson Fury box as a featherweight?
    No because he's medically not a featherweight.
    Yes, but ‘medically’ has nothing to do with it.

    Fighting weight is merely a social construct, if he chooses to self-identify as a featherweight then it’s none of anyone else’s business and he must be allowed to compete as a featherweight. It’s certainly nothing to do with the existing featherweights, they just have to deal with it.
    Weight is easier to deal with than sex when it comes to edge case sporting categorisation though.
    If I want to self-identify as 60kg, why should I be forced into the 80kg category? I’d be much happier fighting 60kg opponents, thanks very much!
    Scales provide the pure unbias truth on weight. You could try and sweat off 20 KG before the weigh in, you might die come fight night though.
    And a Y chromosome provides the pure unbiased truth on biological gender too.
    This is not true. Some females are born with a Y chromosome.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,259
    Just had a quick look back at Labour's 1997 manifesto (I think I've found the right document here: http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manifestos/1997/1997-labour-manifesto.shtml).

    As far as I can see, no mention of LGBT rights.

    There's a wooly sentence here "We will seek to end unjustifiable discrimination wherever it exists. For example, we support comprehensive, enforceable civil rights for disabled people against discrimination in society or at work, developed in partnership with all interested parties.

    Probably the right approach with trans rights as well. Don't go on about it, just get elected, quietly do the right thing, and watch as the Tories end up disowning all the jokes they used to make about self-identifying as XYZ. It will be tricky though because certain elements will desperately try to stir this up as an issue.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509

    Some good news.

    Prof Jonathan Ball, an expert in molecular virology at the University of Nottingham: "There is little if any evidence that people can routinely transmit virus during the asymptomatic period." (BBC)

    Great news if it’s true, but a lot of other experts and studies elsewhere disagree. The word ‘routinely’ is doing a lot of work there.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089
    edited March 2020
    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete would even contemplate doping in the future.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,610
    eadric said:

    Friend of a friend anecdote. Boss of a $25 billion pharma company

    “We are in deep trouble”

    Most of my very smart, very rich friends are now crapping themselves. My poor friends don’t seem very worried, or they don’t believe the hype, or are actively intrigued by the potential turmoil.

    It’s a fascinating contrast. It’s Brexit times a trillion.

    Is he or she talking about the virus or the bond markets?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited March 2020
    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete ever dope again.

    Now I believe every athlete in that infamous final except one tested positive during their careers. And the exception is Carl Lewis of which I won't say anymore as I don't want to be sued.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,117
    edited March 2020
    Somewhat unconvincing measures here.

    "The protocol for people returning to the UK from Italy – which is on a country-wide lockdown, is still unclear.

    At Heathrow, Italian nationals and others who cannot easily self-isolate are being asked if they want to self-quarantine in a large nearby hotel, No 10 said on Tuesday. This is thought to be the Holiday Inn that has been used for some Chinese and South Korean passengers in recent weeks.

    However, this is not compulsory so only some people are taking the government up on the offer."
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Och, I was taking Nandy's car crash with a salty pinch, but If Arron's sockpuppet is saying it..
    Without even watching I'm going to guess that she said Trans people should have human rights.
    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/showbiz-tv/apologise-lisa-nandy-piers-morgan-17896046?

    Morgan insisted he was "not attacking transgender rights" and again demanded Nandy say whether she felt it was fair for trans athletes with "superior strength and power" to enter in women's competitions.
    It's an interesting question.

    Is it fair for athletes with superior strength and power to enter competitions.... ?


    What next, is Piers going to phone Boris Johnson and ask him his opinion about the final 3km crash rule in the Tour de France?
    Is it mandatory?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,064
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nottingham Forest owner Evangelos Marinakis, who was at the Championship football team’s home game on Friday alongside more than 27,000 fans, has contracted coronavirus.

    HERE WE GO
    One of the senior UK medical staff has been saying that the virus is less likely to be caught in the open air, and that it can't survive long there, so that the virus is more likely to be caught in large indoor than outdoor gatherings - not sure of the relevance of that, but it seemed worth mentioning.
    And that the infection rate was similar at a pub and at a large stadium. You are only going to infect those in your immediate vicinity.
    True, but my risk of being infected is higher when meeting a stranger than meeting the people I met in the pub yesterday.

    And I walk/cycle to the pub, but take a train to get to a football match.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete ever dope again.

    Now I believe every athlete in that infamous final except one tested positive during their careers. And the exception is Carl Lewis of which I won't say anymore as I don't want to be sued.
    I had a very strong sense of right and wrong at 7 years old.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete would even contemplate doping in the future.

    They just learned to dial it down a little, and realised that obliterating world records draws way too much attention.

    Until Lance Armstrong.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,081
    Betting Post -

    You can back Michelle Obama at 460 for POTUS and lay her at 85 for Dem nominee.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete would even contemplate doping in the future.

    They just learned to dial it down a little, and realised that obliterating world records draws way too much attention.

    Until Lance Armstrong.
    I am waiting for a similar thing to blow up in some sports where the rapid development of individuals look extremely suspicious...cough cough rugby.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755
    Sandpit said:

    Some good news.

    Prof Jonathan Ball, an expert in molecular virology at the University of Nottingham: "There is little if any evidence that people can routinely transmit virus during the asymptomatic period." (BBC)

    Great news if it’s true, but a lot of other experts and studies elsewhere disagree. The word ‘routinely’ is doing a lot of work there.
    It would be a very important question to have a definitive answer to in respect of schools and universities as young people seem to be mainly asymptomatic.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,401
    eristdoof said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nottingham Forest owner Evangelos Marinakis, who was at the Championship football team’s home game on Friday alongside more than 27,000 fans, has contracted coronavirus.

    HERE WE GO
    One of the senior UK medical staff has been saying that the virus is less likely to be caught in the open air, and that it can't survive long there, so that the virus is more likely to be caught in large indoor than outdoor gatherings - not sure of the relevance of that, but it seemed worth mentioning.
    And that the infection rate was similar at a pub and at a large stadium. You are only going to infect those in your immediate vicinity.
    True, but my risk of being infected is higher when meeting a stranger than meeting the people I met in the pub yesterday.

    And I walk/cycle to the pub, but take a train to get to a football match.
    One of the advantages of watching Non-League, local, football.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    kinabalu said:

    Betting Post -

    You can back Michelle Obama at 460 for POTUS and lay her at 85 for Dem nominee.

    If the US is overrun with the virus as Wuhan was, probably get your money on Billy-Bob from rural Idaho who has camped out in the woods for the past 10 years living off the land as favourite for next president.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    Sandpit said:

    Some good news.

    Prof Jonathan Ball, an expert in molecular virology at the University of Nottingham: "There is little if any evidence that people can routinely transmit virus during the asymptomatic period." (BBC)

    Great news if it’s true, but a lot of other experts and studies elsewhere disagree. The word ‘routinely’ is doing a lot of work there.
    If it were true you'd expect containment to be as effective as it was for SARS.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Och, I was taking Nandy's car crash with a salty pinch, but If Arron's sockpuppet is saying it..
    Without even watching I'm going to guess that she said Trans people should have human rights.
    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/showbiz-tv/apologise-lisa-nandy-piers-morgan-17896046?

    Morgan insisted he was "not attacking transgender rights" and again demanded Nandy say whether she felt it was fair for trans athletes with "superior strength and power" to enter in women's competitions.
    It's an interesting question.

    Is it fair for athletes with superior strength and power to enter competitions.... ?
    Not if that superior strength and power is artificially attained, no it isn't.

    If its naturally attained with what you were born with, plus a good diet, hard work and exercise then yes it is.
    It depends which competitions. Should Tyson Fury box as a featherweight?
    No because he's medically not a featherweight.
    Yes, but ‘medically’ has nothing to do with it.

    Fighting weight is merely a social construct, if he chooses to self-identify as a featherweight then it’s none of anyone else’s business and he must be allowed to compete as a featherweight. It’s certainly nothing to do with the existing featherweights, they just have to deal with it.
    Weight is easier to deal with than sex when it comes to edge case sporting categorisation though.
    If I want to self-identify as 60kg, why should I be forced into the 80kg category? I’d be much happier fighting 60kg opponents, thanks very much!
    Scales provide the pure unbias truth on weight. You could try and sweat off 20 KG before the weigh in, you might die come fight night though.
    And a Y chromosome provides the pure unbiased truth on biological gender too.
    There are people with a Y chromosome who have female sex organs and who can, and have, give birth.

    Are you really going to classify them as men?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,401

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete would even contemplate doping in the future.

    They just learned to dial it down a little, and realised that obliterating world records draws way too much attention.

    Until Lance Armstrong.
    I am waiting for a similar thing to blow up in some sports where the rapid development of individuals look extremely suspicious...cough cough rugby.
    Professional Rugby Union seems to be destroying itself. Things were managed so much better in the League. At least once upon a time.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,186
    eristdoof said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Och, I was taking Nandy's car crash with a salty pinch, but If Arron's sockpuppet is saying it..
    Without even watching I'm going to guess that she said Trans people should have human rights.
    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/showbiz-tv/apologise-lisa-nandy-piers-morgan-17896046?

    Morgan insisted he was "not attacking transgender rights" and again demanded Nandy say whether she felt it was fair for trans athletes with "superior strength and power" to enter in women's competitions.
    It's an interesting question.

    Is it fair for athletes with superior strength and power to enter competitions.... ?
    Not if that superior strength and power is artificially attained, no it isn't.

    If its naturally attained with what you were born with, plus a good diet, hard work and exercise then yes it is.
    It depends which competitions. Should Tyson Fury box as a featherweight?
    No because he's medically not a featherweight.
    Yes, but ‘medically’ has nothing to do with it.

    Fighting weight is merely a social construct, if he chooses to self-identify as a featherweight then it’s none of anyone else’s business and he must be allowed to compete as a featherweight. It’s certainly nothing to do with the existing featherweights, they just have to deal with it.
    Weight is easier to deal with than sex when it comes to edge case sporting categorisation though.
    If I want to self-identify as 60kg, why should I be forced into the 80kg category? I’d be much happier fighting 60kg opponents, thanks very much!
    Scales provide the pure unbias truth on weight. You could try and sweat off 20 KG before the weigh in, you might die come fight night though.
    And a Y chromosome provides the pure unbiased truth on biological gender too.
    This is not true. Some females are born with a Y chromosome.
    which is true, but doesn't answer the question of where to draw the line for eligibility to compete in women's sport events. my personal opinion is that it doesn't matter, leave it to the relevant sporting bodies to decide, but if you aren't competing in the event yourself don't get too worked up about it. wherever you draw the line you'll end up with some women who get disqualified and/or allow some degree of "unfair" advantage to some women. but so what?

    it's ridiculous to pretend that the rules of who can enter a women's sport competition should be any kind of general authority on who is or isn't a woman.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Och, I was taking Nandy's car crash with a salty pinch, but If Arron's sockpuppet is saying it..
    Without even watching I'm going to guess that she said Trans people should have human rights.
    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/showbiz-tv/apologise-lisa-nandy-piers-morgan-17896046?

    Morgan insisted he was "not attacking transgender rights" and again demanded Nandy say whether she felt it was fair for trans athletes with "superior strength and power" to enter in women's competitions.
    It's an interesting question.

    Is it fair for athletes with superior strength and power to enter competitions.... ?
    Not if that superior strength and power is artificially attained, no it isn't.

    If its naturally attained with what you were born with, plus a good diet, hard work and exercise then yes it is.
    It depends which competitions. Should Tyson Fury box as a featherweight?
    No because he's medically not a featherweight.
    Yes, but ‘medically’ has nothing to do with it.

    Fighting weight is merely a social construct, if he chooses to self-identify as a featherweight then it’s none of anyone else’s business and he must be allowed to compete as a featherweight. It’s certainly nothing to do with the existing featherweights, they just have to deal with it.
    Weight is easier to deal with than sex when it comes to edge case sporting categorisation though.
    If I want to self-identify as 60kg, why should I be forced into the 80kg category? I’d be much happier fighting 60kg opponents, thanks very much!
    Scales provide the pure unbias truth on weight. You could try and sweat off 20 KG before the weigh in, you might die come fight night though.
    And a Y chromosome provides the pure unbiased truth on biological gender too.
    There are people with a Y chromosome who have female sex organs and who can, and have, give birth.

    Are you really going to classify them as men?
    No, I was wrong. I take it back.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,064

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete ever dope again.

    Now I believe every athlete in that infamous final except one tested positive during their careers. And the exception is Carl Lewis of which I won't say anymore as I don't want to be sued.
    I seem to remember seeing a documentary about it. Most athletes in the 80s were doping and the trainers/medics had measured each individual's wash-out time so that come race day the drug was no longer traceable. There was a problem with Johnson's wash-out time because he was ill. I forget if it was because he was ill when they calculated his wash out time or if it was in the weeks just before the race.

  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649

    Some good news.

    Prof Jonathan Ball, an expert in molecular virology at the University of Nottingham: "There is little if any evidence that people can routinely transmit virus during the asymptomatic period." (BBC)

    That's not what a number of papers on the preprint medical academic journal service say.
    The period I've seen quoted is that asymptomatic spread happens for up to 48 hours before becoming symptomatic. Not the full incubation period but still a significant problem.
  • On topic I'm voting enthusiastically for Davey. The longer time goes on the more the buffoonery of the Tories will wind up all but the tiniest of brain. That leaves space in the middle for someone who looks relatable and not bonkers to ask the obvious questions and point to another way forward.

    On paper you might think Starmer could do that. Assuming that RLB isn't simply anointed as the winner having won over "the silent majority" of course. But if he does win despite the obvious ballot rigging he has had to triangulate so hard that he can't just shake off the lunatics and loony left policies - especially if a nutter is elected as deputy.

    Which leaves the LibDems. What goes down can go back up again. Davey presents himself well, has a sense of humour, asks smart questions, and can and will point to LibDem successes in government sadly lacking since 2015.

    Yup, Davey for me (again). One of the few politicians of any party who actually seems to be more interested in getting the job done than self-promotion. A smart and by all accounts genuinely nice bloke.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete ever dope again.

    Now I believe every athlete in that infamous final except one tested positive during their careers. And the exception is Carl Lewis of which I won't say anymore as I don't want to be sued.
    I had a very strong sense of right and wrong at 7 years old.
    I was 10 years old at the time, our final year primary teacher used the story as the starting point for a lesson on both drugs and morality. Every kid that summer knew about the bad Canadian man who cheated by taking drugs. Cheating is bad and drugs are bad kids, don’t cheat and don’t do drugs.

    I was over the moon when Usain Bolt retired without even a hint of a rumour or suspicion being raised about him. If he’d been doing something untoward, he’d have bought the whole sports of athletics down with him.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited March 2020
    I am fully aware of exponential growth etc, but I am scratching my head over this statement...

    The start of the UK peak of the coronavirus epidemic is expected within the next fortnight, England’s deputy chief medical officer has said.

    I thought the modelling was that the peak wouldn't be for at least a month after we got significant community transmission, then 3 months of growth / fall.

    I can only presume that although the last few days have shown steady numbers of positives to tests there are other indicators.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kamski said:

    eristdoof said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Och, I was taking Nandy's car crash with a salty pinch, but If Arron's sockpuppet is saying it..
    Without even watching I'm going to guess that she said Trans people should have human rights.
    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/showbiz-tv/apologise-lisa-nandy-piers-morgan-17896046?

    Morgan insisted he was "not attacking transgender rights" and again demanded Nandy say whether she felt it was fair for trans athletes with "superior strength and power" to enter in women's competitions.
    It's an interesting question.

    Is it fair for athletes with superior strength and power to enter competitions.... ?
    Not if that superior strength and power is artificially attained, no it isn't.

    If its naturally attained with what you were born with, plus a good diet, hard work and exercise then yes it is.
    It depends which competitions. Should Tyson Fury box as a featherweight?
    No because he's medically not a featherweight.
    Yes, but ‘medically’ has nothing to do with it.

    Fighting weight is merely a social construct, if he chooses to self-identify as a featherweight then it’s none of anyone else’s business and he must be allowed to compete as a featherweight. It’s certainly nothing to do with the existing featherweights, they just have to deal with it.
    Weight is easier to deal with than sex when it comes to edge case sporting categorisation though.
    If I want to self-identify as 60kg, why should I be forced into the 80kg category? I’d be much happier fighting 60kg opponents, thanks very much!
    Scales provide the pure unbias truth on weight. You could try and sweat off 20 KG before the weigh in, you might die come fight night though.
    And a Y chromosome provides the pure unbiased truth on biological gender too.
    This is not true. Some females are born with a Y chromosome.
    which is true, but doesn't answer the question of where to draw the line for eligibility to compete in women's sport events. my personal opinion is that it doesn't matter, leave it to the relevant sporting bodies to decide, but if you aren't competing in the event yourself don't get too worked up about it. wherever you draw the line you'll end up with some women who get disqualified and/or allow some degree of "unfair" advantage to some women. but so what?

    it's ridiculous to pretend that the rules of who can enter a women's sport competition should be any kind of general authority on who is or isn't a woman.
    If you are tolerating unfair advantage you are necessarily tolerating unfair disadvantage to (in this case) women. Which is not a good thing to do.
  • ukpaulukpaul Posts: 649
    edited March 2020
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Some good news.

    Prof Jonathan Ball, an expert in molecular virology at the University of Nottingham: "There is little if any evidence that people can routinely transmit virus during the asymptomatic period." (BBC)

    Great news if it’s true, but a lot of other experts and studies elsewhere disagree. The word ‘routinely’ is doing a lot of work there.
    It would be a very important question to have a definitive answer to in respect of schools and universities as young people seem to be mainly asymptomatic.
    I posted about this yesterday (the serious concern that brought me out of posting retirement!). Latest evidence is that children are asymptomatic carriers or have very mild symptoms. Given the numbers in schools and universities that should give any government the backup to change course.
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618

    Good news when we are all locked down...Osarks Season 3 is out in couple of weeks.

    Better call Saul new season out now, maybe save it.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,152
    It looks like the WCML has caught COVD-19:

    http://trains.im/ppmhistorical/VT
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited March 2020
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete ever dope again.

    Now I believe every athlete in that infamous final except one tested positive during their careers. And the exception is Carl Lewis of which I won't say anymore as I don't want to be sued.
    I had a very strong sense of right and wrong at 7 years old.
    I was 10 years old at the time, our final year primary teacher used the story as the starting point for a lesson on both drugs and morality. Every kid that summer knew about the bad Canadian man who cheated by taking drugs. Cheating is bad and drugs are bad kids, don’t cheat and don’t do drugs.

    I was over the moon when Usain Bolt retired without even a hint of a rumour or suspicion being raised about him. If he’d been doing something untoward, he’d have bought the whole sports of athletics down with him.
    I wouldn't say absolutely no hint or suspicion. Many many Jamaican athletes he trained with have tested positive and their doping system has been exposed as a total joke (in the same way Kenya's is). They really don't test that often and plenty of reports that if external testers fly into the island, all athletes know.

    I am not saying he is guilty of anything, but certainly the drug testing regime he was under isn't comparable to say a UK athlete.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I am fully aware of exponential growth etc, but I am scratching my head over this statement...

    The start of the UK peak of the coronavirus epidemic is expected within the next fortnight, England’s deputy chief medical officer has said.

    I thought the modelling was that the peak wouldn't be for at least a month after we got significant community transmission, then 3 months of growth / fall.

    I can only presume that although the last few days have shown steady numbers of positives to tests there are other indicators.

    "Start of the peak" not the peak is the interesting phrase.

    Does have an air of "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning" about it it.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047

    On topic I'm voting enthusiastically for Davey. The longer time goes on the more the buffoonery of the Tories will wind up all but the tiniest of brain. That leaves space in the middle for someone who looks relatable and not bonkers to ask the obvious questions and point to another way forward.

    On paper you might think Starmer could do that. Assuming that RLB isn't simply anointed as the winner having won over "the silent majority" of course. But if he does win despite the obvious ballot rigging he has had to triangulate so hard that he can't just shake off the lunatics and loony left policies - especially if a nutter is elected as deputy.

    Which leaves the LibDems. What goes down can go back up again. Davey presents himself well, has a sense of humour, asks smart questions, and can and will point to LibDem successes in government sadly lacking since 2015.

    He seems a much better bet for the party than Moran.
    Voted for Davey last time and I will again. Mind you, I've been a member since 1973 and I've never voted for the winning candidate.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete would even contemplate doping in the future.

    They just learned to dial it down a little, and realised that obliterating world records draws way too much attention.

    Until Lance Armstrong.
    Lance did not get caught because he broke records and he never tested positive. He got caught because he would not get Floyd Landis a contract at Astana so Landis grassed.

    Indurain was breaking records well before Lance...

    Pro cycling is still as dirty now because doping works.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089

    kinabalu said:

    Betting Post -

    You can back Michelle Obama at 460 for POTUS and lay her at 85 for Dem nominee.

    If the US is overrun with the virus as Wuhan was, probably get your money on Billy-Bob from rural Idaho who has camped out in the woods for the past 10 years living off the land as favourite for next president.
    Betfair Dem market is settled in July iirc, presidential market in November. Which make Obama's implied odds nuts.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete would even contemplate doping in the future.

    They just learned to dial it down a little, and realised that obliterating world records draws way too much attention.

    Until Lance Armstrong.
    I am waiting for a similar thing to blow up in some sports where the rapid development of individuals look extremely suspicious...cough cough rugby.
    Rugby is in for a mighty reckoning at some point.
    The toxic culture of denial amongst fans makes cycling defenders look like clear eyed saints.

    The majority of doping bans in the UK are for lower level rugby players (both Union and League). Wales is notorious for players on the gear, South Africa is riven by steroids at teenager level.

    The idea that rugby is 'clean' is preposterous.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,064

    I am fully aware of exponential growth etc, but I am scratching my head over this statement...

    The start of the UK peak of the coronavirus epidemic is expected within the next fortnight, England’s deputy chief medical officer has said.

    I thought the modelling was that the peak wouldn't be for at least a month after we got significant community transmission, then 3 months of growth / fall.

    I can only presume that although the last few days have shown steady numbers of positives to tests there are other indicators.

    The "start of the peak" you could argue is still quite a long way before the actual peak.

    It's a bit like cycling up a big hill. At some point you notice that it's not quite as steep as before, then look ahead and see that there is still a lot of hard work before you can stop peddling.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,064
    edited March 2020
    The panel for the Darwin Awards are going to have fun this year!
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete would even contemplate doping in the future.

    They just learned to dial it down a little, and realised that obliterating world records draws way too much attention.

    Until Lance Armstrong.
    Lance did not get caught because he broke records and he never tested positive. He got caught because he would not get Floyd Landis a contract at Astana so Landis grassed.

    Indurain was breaking records well before Lance...

    Pro cycling is still as dirty now because doping works.
    Big Mig's power output figures put him at the cusp of barely believable but still just within the notion of what a genetic freak of a human could do. Armstrong and Co were so far past it as to be ridiculous.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited March 2020
    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete would even contemplate doping in the future.

    They just learned to dial it down a little, and realised that obliterating world records draws way too much attention.

    Until Lance Armstrong.
    I am waiting for a similar thing to blow up in some sports where the rapid development of individuals look extremely suspicious...cough cough rugby.
    Rugby is in for a mighty reckoning at some point.
    The toxic culture of denial amongst fans makes cycling defenders look like clear eyed saints.

    The majority of doping bans in the UK are for lower level rugby players (both Union and League). Wales is notorious for players on the gear, South Africa is riven by steroids at teenager level.

    The idea that rugby is 'clean' is preposterous.
    Yes, it is definitely a problem at junior level across the world. I was at a party last year with a Australian, who nephew plays high level rugby back home and was totally open that his nephew and most of his team mates are all on something.

    It reminds me a lot of American Football. The "kids" entering college are absolute beasts. Now some I am sure some naturally are that freakishly big, but it just isn't possible for a whole cohort to be that stacked while still effectively children.

    I think part of the thinking is a) you have to get that big to get picked up and b) get as much of the "gains" in early before you actually make the pros and won't be tested. It is much harder to make the gains than maintain it.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,282
    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Betting Post -

    You can back Michelle Obama at 460 for POTUS and lay her at 85 for Dem nominee.

    If the US is overrun with the virus as Wuhan was, probably get your money on Billy-Bob from rural Idaho who has camped out in the woods for the past 10 years living off the land as favourite for next president.
    Betfair Dem market is settled in July iirc, presidential market in November. Which make Obama's implied odds nuts.
    Even more so when you think that Biden may have a majority of pledged delegates by the end of April.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,755
    eristdoof said:

    I am fully aware of exponential growth etc, but I am scratching my head over this statement...

    The start of the UK peak of the coronavirus epidemic is expected within the next fortnight, England’s deputy chief medical officer has said.

    I thought the modelling was that the peak wouldn't be for at least a month after we got significant community transmission, then 3 months of growth / fall.

    I can only presume that although the last few days have shown steady numbers of positives to tests there are other indicators.

    The "start of the peak" you could argue is still quite a long way before the actual peak.

    It's a bit like cycling up a big hill. At some point you notice that it's not quite as steep as before, then look ahead and see that there is still a lot of hard work before you can stop peddling.
    It’s like hillwalking. You stagger up to the peak and some smart Alec says, “nah, we’re here for that one over there.”
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,186
    IshmaelZ said:

    kamski said:

    eristdoof said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Och, I was taking Nandy's car crash with a salty pinch, but If Arron's sockpuppet is saying it..
    Without even watching I'm going to guess that she said Trans people should have human rights.
    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/showbiz-tv/apologise-lisa-nandy-piers-morgan-17896046?

    Morgan insisted he was "not attacking transgender rights" and again demanded Nandy say whether she felt it was fair for trans athletes with "superior strength and power" to enter in women's competitions.
    It's an interesting question.

    Is it fair for athletes with superior strength and power to enter competitions.... ?
    Not if that superior strength and power is artificially attained, no it isn't.

    If its naturally attained with what you were born with, plus a good diet, hard work and exercise then yes it is.
    It depends which competitions. Should Tyson Fury box as a featherweight?
    No because he's medically not a featherweight.
    Yes, but ‘medically’ has nothing to do with it.

    Fighting weight is merely a social construct, if he chooses to self-identify as a featherweight then it’s none of anyone else’s business and he must be allowed to compete as a featherweight. It’s certainly nothing to do with the existing featherweights, they just have to deal with it.
    Weight is easier to deal with than sex when it comes to edge case sporting categorisation though.
    If I want to self-identify as 60kg, why should I be forced into the 80kg category? I’d be much happier fighting 60kg opponents, thanks very much!
    Scales provide the pure unbias truth on weight. You could try and sweat off 20 KG before the weigh in, you might die come fight night though.
    And a Y chromosome provides the pure unbiased truth on biological gender too.
    This is not true. Some females are born with a Y chromosome.
    which is true, but doesn't answer the question of where to draw the line for eligibility to compete in women's sport events. my personal opinion is that it doesn't matter, leave it to the relevant sporting bodies to decide, but if you aren't competing in the event yourself don't get too worked up about it. wherever you draw the line you'll end up with some women who get disqualified and/or allow some degree of "unfair" advantage to some women. but so what?

    it's ridiculous to pretend that the rules of who can enter a women's sport competition should be any kind of general authority on who is or isn't a woman.
    If you are tolerating unfair advantage you are necessarily tolerating unfair disadvantage to (in this case) women. Which is not a good thing to do.
    well, I'm personally not tolerating anything, I'm leaving it up to the sporting bodies to decide. But, like I said, it is a case of where to draw the line. anyone trying to make it an absolute moral case one way or the other is probably wrong. which is usually the case in life.

    absolute moral cases would look something like:
    a) anyone who says they identify as a woman can compete no matter what.
    or
    b) only women who have 2 x chromosomes and no y chromosomes and have fully developed female sexual organs and do not have higher than average female testosterone and was assigned female from birth and have other "typical" hormones and other characteristics for a female.... can compete
    I think both approaches would be unfortunate, but then you have no choice but to make a decision to draw an arbitrary line. so just draw an arbitrary line, admit that it is arbitrary, and get on with it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682

    On topic I'm voting enthusiastically for Davey. The longer time goes on the more the buffoonery of the Tories will wind up all but the tiniest of brain. That leaves space in the middle for someone who looks relatable and not bonkers to ask the obvious questions and point to another way forward.

    On paper you might think Starmer could do that. Assuming that RLB isn't simply anointed as the winner having won over "the silent majority" of course. But if he does win despite the obvious ballot rigging he has had to triangulate so hard that he can't just shake off the lunatics and loony left policies - especially if a nutter is elected as deputy.

    Which leaves the LibDems. What goes down can go back up again. Davey presents himself well, has a sense of humour, asks smart questions, and can and will point to LibDem successes in government sadly lacking since 2015.

    Yup, Davey for me (again). One of the few politicians of any party who actually seems to be more interested in getting the job done than self-promotion. A smart and by all accounts genuinely nice bloke.
    And someone more likely to appeal to Tory Remainers than Moran and able to work with Starmer if the next general election leads to a hung parliament like 2010 with the LDs holding the balance of power
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    IshmaelZ said:

    kamski said:

    eristdoof said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Och, I was taking Nandy's car crash with a salty pinch, but If Arron's sockpuppet is saying it..
    Without even watching I'm going to guess that she said Trans people should have human rights.
    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/showbiz-tv/apologise-lisa-nandy-piers-morgan-17896046?

    Morgan insisted he was "not attacking transgender rights" and again demanded Nandy say whether she felt it was fair for trans athletes with "superior strength and power" to enter in women's competitions.
    It's an interesting question.

    Is it fair for athletes with superior strength and power to enter competitions.... ?
    Not if that superior strength and power is artificially attained, no it isn't.

    If its naturally attained with what you were born with, plus a good diet, hard work and exercise then yes it is.
    It depends which competitions. Should Tyson Fury box as a featherweight?
    No because he's medically not a featherweight.
    Yes, but ‘medically’ has nothing to do with it.

    Fighting weight is merely a social construct, if he chooses to self-identify as a featherweight then it’s none of anyone else’s business and he must be allowed to compete as a featherweight. It’s certainly nothing to do with the existing featherweights, they just have to deal with it.
    Weight is easier to deal with than sex when it comes to edge case sporting categorisation though.
    If I want to self-identify as 60kg, why should I be forced into the 80kg category? I’d be much happier fighting 60kg opponents, thanks very much!
    Scales provide the pure unbias truth on weight. You could try and sweat off 20 KG before the weigh in, you might die come fight night though.
    And a Y chromosome provides the pure unbiased truth on biological gender too.
    This is not true. Some females are born with a Y chromosome.
    which is true, but doesn't answer the question of where to draw the line for eligibility to compete in women's sport events. my personal opinion is that it doesn't matter, leave it to the relevant sporting bodies to decide, but if you aren't competing in the event yourself don't get too worked up about it. wherever you draw the line you'll end up with some women who get disqualified and/or allow some degree of "unfair" advantage to some women. but so what?

    it's ridiculous to pretend that the rules of who can enter a women's sport competition should be any kind of general authority on who is or isn't a woman.
    If you are tolerating unfair advantage you are necessarily tolerating unfair disadvantage to (in this case) women. Which is not a good thing to do.
    Yes. This is the key point. Hence why the likes of Martina Navratilova have campaigned for something akin to a testosterone threshold. Her documentary on this is well worth a view – she makes the point that transwomen exhibit testosterone levels far higher than born women even after procedures to reduce their testosterone. My general view is that this needs to be handled carefully, but ultimately allowing people who were born as men into women's sports is deeply unwise and will set back progress of female participation in sport several decades.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited March 2020
    For anyone wondering why deaths are spiking:
    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1237142891077697538.html

    First, Lumbardy is the most developed region in Italy and it has a extraordinary good healthcare, I have worked in Italy, UK and Aus and don’t make the mistake to think that what is happening is happening in a 3rd world country. The current situation is difficult to imagine and numbers do not explain things at all. Our hospitals are overwhelmed by Covid-19, they are running 200% capacity. We’ve stopped all routine, all ORs have been converted to ITUs and they are now diverting or not treating all other emergencies like trauma or strokes. Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest.

    We have seen the same pattern in different areas a week apart, and there is no reason that in a few weeks it won’t be the same everywhere.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited March 2020
    Disgraceful...2 million views of that fake news Boris clip, and being shared by people who should know a lot better.

    https://order-order.com/2020/03/10/twitter-experts-coronavirus-fake-news/

    I know they have Brexit and Boris Derangement Syndrome, but that is not excuse in a time of crisis.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Betting Post -

    You can back Michelle Obama at 460 for POTUS and lay her at 85 for Dem nominee.

    If the US is overrun with the virus as Wuhan was, probably get your money on Billy-Bob from rural Idaho who has camped out in the woods for the past 10 years living off the land as favourite for next president.
    Betfair Dem market is settled in July iirc, presidential market in November. Which make Obama's implied odds nuts.
    Even more so when you think that Biden may have a majority of pledged delegates by the end of April.
    I think normal rules of logic have been suspended and people are struggling to take Biden seriously.

    Possibly because they've heard him speak.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete ever dope again.

    Now I believe every athlete in that infamous final except one tested positive during their careers. And the exception is Carl Lewis of which I won't say anymore as I don't want to be sued.
    I had a very strong sense of right and wrong at 7 years old.
    I was 10 years old at the time, our final year primary teacher used the story as the starting point for a lesson on both drugs and morality. Every kid that summer knew about the bad Canadian man who cheated by taking drugs. Cheating is bad and drugs are bad kids, don’t cheat and don’t do drugs.

    I was over the moon when Usain Bolt retired without even a hint of a rumour or suspicion being raised about him. If he’d been doing something untoward, he’d have bought the whole sports of athletics down with him.
    I wouldn't say absolutely no hint or suspicion. Many many Jamaican athletes he trained with have tested positive and their doping system has been exposed as a total joke (in the same way Kenya's is). They really don't test that often and plenty of reports that if external testers fly into the island, all athletes know.

    I am not saying he is guilty of anything, but certainly the drug testing regime he was under isn't comparable to say a UK athlete.
    That’s not untrue, but Bolt himself never came under suspicion, even as other Jamaicans were banned.

    Although, as Mr Ace points out, neither did Armstrong until someone grassed him up.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete would even contemplate doping in the future.

    They just learned to dial it down a little, and realised that obliterating world records draws way too much attention.

    Until Lance Armstrong.
    Lance did not get caught because he broke records and he never tested positive. He got caught because he would not get Floyd Landis a contract at Astana so Landis grassed.

    Indurain was breaking records well before Lance...

    Pro cycling is still as dirty now because doping works.
    I worry about Alaphilippe. Which is a shame because he's such an entertaining racer (which Indurain certainly wasn't, and Armstrong only rarely).
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Alistair said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete would even contemplate doping in the future.

    They just learned to dial it down a little, and realised that obliterating world records draws way too much attention.

    Until Lance Armstrong.
    Lance did not get caught because he broke records and he never tested positive. He got caught because he would not get Floyd Landis a contract at Astana so Landis grassed.

    Indurain was breaking records well before Lance...

    Pro cycling is still as dirty now because doping works.
    Big Mig's power output figures put him at the cusp of barely believable but still just within the notion of what a genetic freak of a human could do. Armstrong and Co were so far past it as to be ridiculous.
    And yet Froome and LRP have been up Col de Madone faster than Lance and Rominger (who was a human fucking chemistry experiment) ever did...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,933

    Alistair said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    Och, I was taking Nandy's car crash with a salty pinch, but If Arron's sockpuppet is saying it..
    Without even watching I'm going to guess that she said Trans people should have human rights.
    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/showbiz-tv/apologise-lisa-nandy-piers-morgan-17896046?

    Morgan insisted he was "not attacking transgender rights" and again demanded Nandy say whether she felt it was fair for trans athletes with "superior strength and power" to enter in women's competitions.
    It's an interesting question.

    Is it fair for athletes with superior strength and power to enter competitions.... ?
    Not if that superior strength and power is artificially attained, no it isn't.

    If its naturally attained with what you were born with, plus a good diet, hard work and exercise then yes it is.
    It depends which competitions. Should Tyson Fury box as a featherweight?
    No because he's medically not a featherweight.
    Yes, but ‘medically’ has nothing to do with it.

    Fighting weight is merely a social construct, if he chooses to self-identify as a featherweight then it’s none of anyone else’s business and he must be allowed to compete as a featherweight. It’s certainly nothing to do with the existing featherweights, they just have to deal with it.
    Weight is easier to deal with than sex when it comes to edge case sporting categorisation though.
    If I want to self-identify as 60kg, why should I be forced into the 80kg category? I’d be much happier fighting 60kg opponents, thanks very much!
    Scales provide the pure unbias truth on weight. You could try and sweat off 20 KG before the weigh in, you might die come fight night though.
    And a Y chromosome provides the pure unbiased truth on biological gender too.
    There are people with a Y chromosome who have female sex organs and who can, and have, give birth.

    Are you really going to classify them as men?
    No, I was wrong. I take it back.
    Kudos to you for that, Philip.
    The absolute moral certainties people have on either side of this debate are rarely soundly based.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    edited March 2020
    Dura_Ace said:

    Alistair said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete would even contemplate doping in the future.

    They just learned to dial it down a little, and realised that obliterating world records draws way too much attention.

    Until Lance Armstrong.
    Lance did not get caught because he broke records and he never tested positive. He got caught because he would not get Floyd Landis a contract at Astana so Landis grassed.

    Indurain was breaking records well before Lance...

    Pro cycling is still as dirty now because doping works.
    Big Mig's power output figures put him at the cusp of barely believable but still just within the notion of what a genetic freak of a human could do. Armstrong and Co were so far past it as to be ridiculous.
    And yet Froome and LRP have been up Col de Madone faster than Lance and Rominger (who was a human fucking chemistry experiment) ever did...
    I thought in general the stage times on the Tour de France were significantly slower now than the Armstrong period?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete would even contemplate doping in the future.

    They just learned to dial it down a little, and realised that obliterating world records draws way too much attention.

    Until Lance Armstrong.
    I am waiting for a similar thing to blow up in some sports where the rapid development of individuals look extremely suspicious...cough cough rugby.
    Rugby is in for a mighty reckoning at some point.
    The toxic culture of denial amongst fans makes cycling defenders look like clear eyed saints.

    The majority of doping bans in the UK are for lower level rugby players (both Union and League). Wales is notorious for players on the gear, South Africa is riven by steroids at teenager level.

    The idea that rugby is 'clean' is preposterous.
    Decided to check when Caroline Spelman's son was banned for steroid use as an under 16 player. Was surprised that the story was from 8 years ago.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17731143
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    dr_spyn said:
    Rory a clear 3rd ahead of the LDs and Greens.

    Rory also does better against Khan than Shaun Bailey, Khan beats Bailey comfortably 67% to 33% but Khan only beats Rory 59% to 41%.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,846
    eadric said:

    Talking about different social reactions to coronavirus, just read this in a history of the Black Death

    “Thus, in several renditions, a laborer is depicted as welcoming Death as relief from his toil, while the rich and powerful, wedded to earthly pleasures, recoil in horror from the smiling hooded figure”

    — The Great Mortality: An Intimate History of the Black Death, the Most Devastating Plague of All Time by John Kelly
    http://amzn.eu/ewLhZDZ

    Perhaps you might benefit from spending your leisure time reading and surfing about something other than plague?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,117
    edited March 2020
    HYUFD said:

    On topic I'm voting enthusiastically for Davey. The longer time goes on the more the buffoonery of the Tories will wind up all but the tiniest of brain. That leaves space in the middle for someone who looks relatable and not bonkers to ask the obvious questions and point to another way forward.

    On paper you might think Starmer could do that. Assuming that RLB isn't simply anointed as the winner having won over "the silent majority" of course. But if he does win despite the obvious ballot rigging he has had to triangulate so hard that he can't just shake off the lunatics and loony left policies - especially if a nutter is elected as deputy.

    Which leaves the LibDems. What goes down can go back up again. Davey presents himself well, has a sense of humour, asks smart questions, and can and will point to LibDem successes in government sadly lacking since 2015.

    Yup, Davey for me (again). One of the few politicians of any party who actually seems to be more interested in getting the job done than self-promotion. A smart and by all accounts genuinely nice bloke.
    And someone more likely to appeal to Tory Remainers than Moran and able to work with Starmer if the next general election leads to a hung parliament like 2010 with the LDs holding the balance of power
    Moran is likely to be closer in policy terms to Starmer than Davey. Unpopular as I'm afraid it may be here, the market for centre-right pragmatism has shrunk.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    eadric said:

    Talking about different social reactions to coronavirus, just read this in a history of the Black Death

    “Thus, in several renditions, a laborer is depicted as welcoming Death as relief from his toil, while the rich and powerful, wedded to earthly pleasures, recoil in horror from the smiling hooded figure”

    — The Great Mortality: An Intimate History of the Black Death, the Most Devastating Plague of All Time by John Kelly
    http://amzn.eu/ewLhZDZ

    That title looks a bit of a hostage to fortune.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,734
    eadric said:

    Talking about different social reactions to coronavirus, just read this in a history of the Black Death

    “Thus, in several renditions, a laborer is depicted as welcoming Death as relief from his toil, while the rich and powerful, wedded to earthly pleasures, recoil in horror from the smiling hooded figure”

    — The Great Mortality: An Intimate History of the Black Death, the Most Devastating Plague of All Time by John Kelly
    http://amzn.eu/ewLhZDZ

    Of course, those of the labouring classes who survived it did rather well out of the black death, as the consequent shortage of labour drove up wages and ultimately the amount of power the poor could wield.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Dura_Ace said:

    Alistair said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete would even contemplate doping in the future.

    They just learned to dial it down a little, and realised that obliterating world records draws way too much attention.

    Until Lance Armstrong.
    Lance did not get caught because he broke records and he never tested positive. He got caught because he would not get Floyd Landis a contract at Astana so Landis grassed.

    Indurain was breaking records well before Lance...

    Pro cycling is still as dirty now because doping works.
    Big Mig's power output figures put him at the cusp of barely believable but still just within the notion of what a genetic freak of a human could do. Armstrong and Co were so far past it as to be ridiculous.
    And yet Froome and LRP have been up Col de Madone faster than Lance and Rominger (who was a human fucking chemistry experiment) ever did...
    I thought in general the stage times on the Tour de France were significantly slower now than the Armstrong period?
    They move the stage finishes around to make direct comparisons hard but the superhuman performances day after day in week 3 of a GT are more telling.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,807
    Just read on BBC news that people in Italy are now moaning that their BA flight has been cancelled.

    The airlines can’t win, can they?
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Betting Post -

    You can back Michelle Obama at 460 for POTUS and lay her at 85 for Dem nominee.

    If the US is overrun with the virus as Wuhan was, probably get your money on Billy-Bob from rural Idaho who has camped out in the woods for the past 10 years living off the land as favourite for next president.
    Betfair Dem market is settled in July iirc, presidential market in November. Which make Obama's implied odds nuts.
    Even more so when you think that Biden may have a majority of pledged delegates by the end of April.
    I think normal rules of logic have been suspended and people are struggling to take Biden seriously.

    Possibly because they've heard him speak.
    He has done 7 2-hour debates and most Democrats have decided they rather like him.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922

    Just read on BBC news that people in Italy are now moaning that their BA flight has been cancelled.

    The airlines can’t win, can they?

    Why are they still in Italy?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,064

    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete would even contemplate doping in the future.

    They just learned to dial it down a little, and realised that obliterating world records draws way too much attention.

    Until Lance Armstrong.
    I am waiting for a similar thing to blow up in some sports where the rapid development of individuals look extremely suspicious...cough cough rugby.
    Rugby is in for a mighty reckoning at some point.
    The toxic culture of denial amongst fans makes cycling defenders look like clear eyed saints.

    The majority of doping bans in the UK are for lower level rugby players (both Union and League). Wales is notorious for players on the gear, South Africa is riven by steroids at teenager level.

    The idea that rugby is 'clean' is preposterous.
    Yes, it is definitely a problem at junior level across the world. I was at a party last year with a Australian, who nephew plays high level rugby back home and was totally open that his nephew and most of his team mates are all on something.

    It reminds me a lot of American Football. The "kids" entering college are absolute beasts. Now some I am sure some naturally are that freakishly big, but it just isn't possible for a whole cohort to be that stacked while still effectively children.

    I think part of the thinking is a) you have to get that big to get picked up and b) get as much of the "gains" in early before you actually make the pros and won't be tested. It is much harder to make the gains than maintain it.
    To be honest I have much more of a problem with this than doping at the pinacle of a sport. If a professional decides that they will dope in order to get gold instead of just making it to the final then so be it. But I do have a big problem when under-age teenagers who are not going to even make it to professional sport starts doping beacase "everyone is doing it".
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922
    Gabs3 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Betting Post -

    You can back Michelle Obama at 460 for POTUS and lay her at 85 for Dem nominee.

    If the US is overrun with the virus as Wuhan was, probably get your money on Billy-Bob from rural Idaho who has camped out in the woods for the past 10 years living off the land as favourite for next president.
    Betfair Dem market is settled in July iirc, presidential market in November. Which make Obama's implied odds nuts.
    Even more so when you think that Biden may have a majority of pledged delegates by the end of April.
    I think normal rules of logic have been suspended and people are struggling to take Biden seriously.

    Possibly because they've heard him speak.
    He has done 7 2-hour debates and most Democrats have decided they rather like him.
    Most democrats watched them?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,089
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Alistair said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete would even contemplate doping in the future.

    They just learned to dial it down a little, and realised that obliterating world records draws way too much attention.

    Until Lance Armstrong.
    Lance did not get caught because he broke records and he never tested positive. He got caught because he would not get Floyd Landis a contract at Astana so Landis grassed.

    Indurain was breaking records well before Lance...

    Pro cycling is still as dirty now because doping works.
    Big Mig's power output figures put him at the cusp of barely believable but still just within the notion of what a genetic freak of a human could do. Armstrong and Co were so far past it as to be ridiculous.
    And yet Froome and LRP have been up Col de Madone faster than Lance and Rominger (who was a human fucking chemistry experiment) ever did...
    I thought in general the stage times on the Tour de France were significantly slower now than the Armstrong period?
    They move the stage finishes around to make direct comparisons hard but the superhuman performances day after day in week 3 of a GT are more telling.
    L-Carnitine injections seem to provide a meaningful and ... currently... legal boost to VO2 max, have those always been around ?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    First person to die in Lebanon travelled from Egypt. Yes I totally believe the Egypt figures, they are definitely not wrong in anyway

    https://twitter.com/LBCI_NEWS/status/1237314484831686657
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete would even contemplate doping in the future.

    They just learned to dial it down a little, and realised that obliterating world records draws way too much attention.

    Until Lance Armstrong.
    Lance did not get caught because he broke records and he never tested positive. He got caught because he would not get Floyd Landis a contract at Astana so Landis grassed.

    Indurain was breaking records well before Lance...

    Pro cycling is still as dirty now because doping works.
    I worry about Alaphilippe. Which is a shame because he's such an entertaining racer (which Indurain certainly wasn't, and Armstrong only rarely).
    Nothing to worry about at all with Loulou. I am sure his transformation at Quickstep is nothing to do with their hot sauce specialist team doctor who was involved in L'Affaire Festina and Operacion Puerto.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682
    edited March 2020

    HYUFD said:

    On topic I'm voting enthusiastically for Davey. The longer time goes on the more the buffoonery of the Tories will wind up all but the tiniest of brain. That leaves space in the middle for someone who looks relatable and not bonkers to ask the obvious questions and point to another way forward.

    On paper you might think Starmer could do that. Assuming that RLB isn't simply anointed as the winner having won over "the silent majority" of course. But if he does win despite the obvious ballot rigging he has had to triangulate so hard that he can't just shake off the lunatics and loony left policies - especially if a nutter is elected as deputy.

    Which leaves the LibDems. What goes down can go back up again. Davey presents himself well, has a sense of humour, asks smart questions, and can and will point to LibDem successes in government sadly lacking since 2015.

    Yup, Davey for me (again). One of the few politicians of any party who actually seems to be more interested in getting the job done than self-promotion. A smart and by all accounts genuinely nice bloke.
    And someone more likely to appeal to Tory Remainers than Moran and able to work with Starmer if the next general election leads to a hung parliament like 2010 with the LDs holding the balance of power
    Moran is likely to be closer in policy terms to Starmer than Davey. Unpopular as I'm afraid it may be here, the market for centre-right pragmatism has shrunk.
    Of the top 20 LD target seats all but 2 are Tory held seats and almost all voted Remain, they need centre right pragmatism to win those and win over Tory Remainers

    http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,117
    edited March 2020
    RobD said:

    Just read on BBC news that people in Italy are now moaning that their BA flight has been cancelled.

    The airlines can’t win, can they?

    Why are they still in Italy?
    More to the point, why is the government involved in possibly pointless half-measures concerning Italy ? A "voluntary quarantine at the Holiday Inn at Heathrow" for Italian travellers who want it doesn't sound too watertight.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,191

    Disgraceful...2 million views of that fake news Boris clip, and being shared by people who should know a lot better.

    https://order-order.com/2020/03/10/twitter-experts-coronavirus-fake-news/

    I know they have Brexit and Boris Derangement Syndrome, but that is not excuse in a time of crisis.

    It's disgraceful, especially if it's done knowingly, but the political campaigners behind the government did kind of open Pandora's box when they did the same in that Kier Starmer clip during the election.

    In the same way, the government concerns about fake news sites would be easier to swallow had their campaigning not pushed the boundaries quite so hard (remember FactCheckUK?)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,933
    RobD said:

    Gabs3 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Betting Post -

    You can back Michelle Obama at 460 for POTUS and lay her at 85 for Dem nominee.

    If the US is overrun with the virus as Wuhan was, probably get your money on Billy-Bob from rural Idaho who has camped out in the woods for the past 10 years living off the land as favourite for next president.
    Betfair Dem market is settled in July iirc, presidential market in November. Which make Obama's implied odds nuts.
    Even more so when you think that Biden may have a majority of pledged delegates by the end of April.
    I think normal rules of logic have been suspended and people are struggling to take Biden seriously.

    Possibly because they've heard him speak.
    He has done 7 2-hour debates and most Democrats have decided they rather like him.
    Most democrats watched them?
    I would think most democrats voting in the primaries will at the very least have seen accounts of the debates.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    eristdoof said:

    Alistair said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete would even contemplate doping in the future.

    They just learned to dial it down a little, and realised that obliterating world records draws way too much attention.

    Until Lance Armstrong.
    I am waiting for a similar thing to blow up in some sports where the rapid development of individuals look extremely suspicious...cough cough rugby.
    Rugby is in for a mighty reckoning at some point.
    The toxic culture of denial amongst fans makes cycling defenders look like clear eyed saints.

    The majority of doping bans in the UK are for lower level rugby players (both Union and League). Wales is notorious for players on the gear, South Africa is riven by steroids at teenager level.

    The idea that rugby is 'clean' is preposterous.
    Yes, it is definitely a problem at junior level across the world. I was at a party last year with a Australian, who nephew plays high level rugby back home and was totally open that his nephew and most of his team mates are all on something.

    It reminds me a lot of American Football. The "kids" entering college are absolute beasts. Now some I am sure some naturally are that freakishly big, but it just isn't possible for a whole cohort to be that stacked while still effectively children.

    I think part of the thinking is a) you have to get that big to get picked up and b) get as much of the "gains" in early before you actually make the pros and won't be tested. It is much harder to make the gains than maintain it.
    To be honest I have much more of a problem with this than doping at the pinacle of a sport. If a professional decides that they will dope in order to get gold instead of just making it to the final then so be it. But I do have a big problem when under-age teenagers who are not going to even make it to professional sport starts doping beacase "everyone is doing it".
    Also, kids in small town America certainly won't be able to get access to the kind of specialist knowledge required to use PEDs with a level of safety. How many are just giving it massive amounts of steroids because their mate in the gym told them that is how much they take.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    RobD said:

    Just read on BBC news that people in Italy are now moaning that their BA flight has been cancelled.

    The airlines can’t win, can they?

    Why are they still in Italy?
    Because their BA flight has been cancelled.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,610
    Chameleon said:

    For anyone wondering why deaths are spiking:
    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1237142891077697538.html

    First, Lumbardy is the most developed region in Italy and it has a extraordinary good healthcare, I have worked in Italy, UK and Aus and don’t make the mistake to think that what is happening is happening in a 3rd world country. The current situation is difficult to imagine and numbers do not explain things at all. Our hospitals are overwhelmed by Covid-19, they are running 200% capacity. We’ve stopped all routine, all ORs have been converted to ITUs and they are now diverting or not treating all other emergencies like trauma or strokes. Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest.

    We have seen the same pattern in different areas a week apart, and there is no reason that in a few weeks it won’t be the same everywhere.

    Blimey. That is really strong stuff in that thread. God help us if UK gets same level of problems at hospitals.
  • If that were true, there would be no danger of the virus spreading at the Cheltenham Festival.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    On topic I'm voting enthusiastically for Davey. The longer time goes on the more the buffoonery of the Tories will wind up all but the tiniest of brain. That leaves space in the middle for someone who looks relatable and not bonkers to ask the obvious questions and point to another way forward.

    On paper you might think Starmer could do that. Assuming that RLB isn't simply anointed as the winner having won over "the silent majority" of course. But if he does win despite the obvious ballot rigging he has had to triangulate so hard that he can't just shake off the lunatics and loony left policies - especially if a nutter is elected as deputy.

    Which leaves the LibDems. What goes down can go back up again. Davey presents himself well, has a sense of humour, asks smart questions, and can and will point to LibDem successes in government sadly lacking since 2015.

    Yup, Davey for me (again). One of the few politicians of any party who actually seems to be more interested in getting the job done than self-promotion. A smart and by all accounts genuinely nice bloke.
    And someone more likely to appeal to Tory Remainers than Moran and able to work with Starmer if the next general election leads to a hung parliament like 2010 with the LDs holding the balance of power
    Moran is likely to be closer in policy terms to Starmer than Davey. Unpopular as I'm afraid it may be here, the market for centre-right pragmatism has shrunk.
    Of the top 20 LD target seats all are Tory Remain seats, they need centre right pragmatism to win those and win over Tory Remainers
    In theory, but I doubt they can survive as a party without metropolitan liberal backing. If Brexit is a disaster, the Tories will reform themselves towards the centre-right, and if it isn't it won't be today's theme.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813

    Disgraceful...2 million views of that fake news Boris clip, and being shared by people who should know a lot better.

    https://order-order.com/2020/03/10/twitter-experts-coronavirus-fake-news/

    I know they have Brexit and Boris Derangement Syndrome, but that is not excuse in a time of crisis.

    It's disgraceful, especially if it's done knowingly, but the political campaigners behind the government did kind of open Pandora's box when they did the same in that Kier Starmer clip during the election.

    In the same way, the government concerns about fake news sites would be easier to swallow had their campaigning not pushed the boundaries quite so hard (remember FactCheckUK?)
    FactCheckUK stunt is just totally irrelevant to this crisis and of course not limited to the Tories, all the Corbyn outiders of the likes of Novara media regular pump out misleading content.

    This isn't the time for this kind of stuff just to try and embarrass somebody they don't like.

    Instead they should be clipping the footage from Italy and using their reach on social media to say look at this.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922
    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    Just read on BBC news that people in Italy are now moaning that their BA flight has been cancelled.

    The airlines can’t win, can they?

    Why are they still in Italy?
    Because their BA flight has been cancelled.
    Perhaps I should rephrase that - why are they still in Italy after all that has happened?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,933
    (BBC) On Monday, health officials said people who showed "even minor" signs of respiratory tract infections or a fever would - within the next 14 days - be told to self-isolate for a week in an effort to tackle the outbreak.

    Why not now ?
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,186
    Chameleon said:

    For anyone wondering why deaths are spiking:
    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1237142891077697538.html

    First, Lumbardy is the most developed region in Italy and it has a extraordinary good healthcare, I have worked in Italy, UK and Aus and don’t make the mistake to think that what is happening is happening in a 3rd world country. The current situation is difficult to imagine and numbers do not explain things at all. Our hospitals are overwhelmed by Covid-19, they are running 200% capacity. We’ve stopped all routine, all ORs have been converted to ITUs and they are now diverting or not treating all other emergencies like trauma or strokes. Patients above 65 or younger with comorbidities are not even assessed by ITU, I am not saying not tubed, I’m saying not assessed and no ITU staff attends when they arrest.

    We have seen the same pattern in different areas a week apart, and there is no reason that in a few weeks it won’t be the same everywhere.

    While I can't vouch for that thread, I can confirm from personal contact that in Milan they have run out of intensive care places, and are unable to give intensive care places to everyone who needs. This could be Germany or the UK or basically everywhere in Europe in a week or 2. I am disappointed by the lack of govt action so far. People should be clearly told to stay at home if possible, practise social distancing, avoid travelling as much as possible. This has gone beyond the "wash your hands and sneeze into your elbow" stage.
  • Disgraceful...2 million views of that fake news Boris clip, and being shared by people who should know a lot better.

    https://order-order.com/2020/03/10/twitter-experts-coronavirus-fake-news/

    I know they have Brexit and Boris Derangement Syndrome, but that is not excuse in a time of crisis.

    It's disgraceful, especially if it's done knowingly, but the political campaigners behind the government did kind of open Pandora's box when they did the same in that Kier Starmer clip during the election.

    In the same way, the government concerns about fake news sites would be easier to swallow had their campaigning not pushed the boundaries quite so hard (remember FactCheckUK?)
    FactCheckUK stunt is just totally irrelevant to this crisis and of course not limited to the Tories, all the Corbyn outiders of the likes of Novara media regular pump out misleading content.

    This isn't the time for this kind of stuff just to try and embarrass somebody they don't like.

    Instead they should be clipping the footage from Italy and using their reach on social media to say look at this.
    The footage from Iran is probably better to use for such a purpose.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,610

    If that were true, there would be no danger of the virus spreading at the Cheltenham Festival.
    :lol:
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Gabs3 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kinabalu said:

    Betting Post -

    You can back Michelle Obama at 460 for POTUS and lay her at 85 for Dem nominee.

    If the US is overrun with the virus as Wuhan was, probably get your money on Billy-Bob from rural Idaho who has camped out in the woods for the past 10 years living off the land as favourite for next president.
    Betfair Dem market is settled in July iirc, presidential market in November. Which make Obama's implied odds nuts.
    Even more so when you think that Biden may have a majority of pledged delegates by the end of April.
    I think normal rules of logic have been suspended and people are struggling to take Biden seriously.

    Possibly because they've heard him speak.
    He has done 7 2-hour debates and most Democrats have decided they rather like him.
    No. Most Democrats have decided they have no choice but to vote for him as the alternative is the even worse. They've not decided they actually like him.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Has anyone done the "well, that's a slap in the face for Ed Davey" joke yet, or are we all too busy discussing the apocalypse?
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    HYUFD said:

    On topic I'm voting enthusiastically for Davey. The longer time goes on the more the buffoonery of the Tories will wind up all but the tiniest of brain. That leaves space in the middle for someone who looks relatable and not bonkers to ask the obvious questions and point to another way forward.

    On paper you might think Starmer could do that. Assuming that RLB isn't simply anointed as the winner having won over "the silent majority" of course. But if he does win despite the obvious ballot rigging he has had to triangulate so hard that he can't just shake off the lunatics and loony left policies - especially if a nutter is elected as deputy.

    Which leaves the LibDems. What goes down can go back up again. Davey presents himself well, has a sense of humour, asks smart questions, and can and will point to LibDem successes in government sadly lacking since 2015.

    Yup, Davey for me (again). One of the few politicians of any party who actually seems to be more interested in getting the job done than self-promotion. A smart and by all accounts genuinely nice bloke.
    And someone more likely to appeal to Tory Remainers than Moran and able to work with Starmer if the next general election leads to a hung parliament like 2010 with the LDs holding the balance of power
    The Lib Dems have taken South Oxfordshire and Vale of White Horse off the Conservatives.

    They wouldn't have done that if Moran was repellent to Tory Remainers.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,813
    Trinity College Dublin is closing its lecture halls and other buildings amid the coronavirus threat.

    The UK need to close all their germ factories now as well.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922
    edited March 2020
    Nigelb said:

    (BBC) On Monday, health officials said people who showed "even minor" signs of respiratory tract infections or a fever would - within the next 14 days - be told to self-isolate for a week in an effort to tackle the outbreak.

    Why not now ?

    Hasn't the big thing been about timing of the response. Doing everything at once means that it might not all be sustained through when it is actually most valuable.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Pulpstar said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Alistair said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I remember when Ben Johnson was caught doping. I thought the shame of it all would mean no athlete would even contemplate doping in the future.

    They just learned to dial it down a little, and realised that obliterating world records draws way too much attention.

    Until Lance Armstrong.
    Lance did not get caught because he broke records and he never tested positive. He got caught because he would not get Floyd Landis a contract at Astana so Landis grassed.

    Indurain was breaking records well before Lance...

    Pro cycling is still as dirty now because doping works.
    Big Mig's power output figures put him at the cusp of barely believable but still just within the notion of what a genetic freak of a human could do. Armstrong and Co were so far past it as to be ridiculous.
    And yet Froome and LRP have been up Col de Madone faster than Lance and Rominger (who was a human fucking chemistry experiment) ever did...
    I thought in general the stage times on the Tour de France were significantly slower now than the Armstrong period?
    They move the stage finishes around to make direct comparisons hard but the superhuman performances day after day in week 3 of a GT are more telling.
    L-Carnitine injections seem to provide a meaningful and ... currently... legal boost to VO2 max, have those always been around ?
    No. O2 vector doping only started in the early 90s when you could get EPO over the counter in Switzerland.

    Before that it was stims and, for those that could afford them, steroids and testosterone.

    We also used to do massive doses of sleeping pills to knock us out for 12 - 14 hours so we wouldn't eat and gain weight. It's a wonder we're not all fucking dead.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,682

    HYUFD said:

    On topic I'm voting enthusiastically for Davey. The longer time goes on the more the buffoonery of the Tories will wind up all but the tiniest of brain. That leaves space in the middle for someone who looks relatable and not bonkers to ask the obvious questions and point to another way forward.

    On paper you might think Starmer could do that. Assuming that RLB isn't simply anointed as the winner having won over "the silent majority" of course. But if he does win despite the obvious ballot rigging he has had to triangulate so hard that he can't just shake off the lunatics and loony left policies - especially if a nutter is elected as deputy.

    Which leaves the LibDems. What goes down can go back up again. Davey presents himself well, has a sense of humour, asks smart questions, and can and will point to LibDem successes in government sadly lacking since 2015.

    Yup, Davey for me (again). One of the few politicians of any party who actually seems to be more interested in getting the job done than self-promotion. A smart and by all accounts genuinely nice bloke.
    And someone more likely to appeal to Tory Remainers than Moran and able to work with Starmer if the next general election leads to a hung parliament like 2010 with the LDs holding the balance of power
    The Lib Dems have taken South Oxfordshire and Vale of White Horse off the Conservatives.

    They wouldn't have done that if Moran was repellent to Tory Remainers.
    Locally you vote for the party and more on local issues, nationally you vote more for the leader and on national issues
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Nigelb said:

    (BBC) On Monday, health officials said people who showed "even minor" signs of respiratory tract infections or a fever would - within the next 14 days - be told to self-isolate for a week in an effort to tackle the outbreak.

    Why not now ?

    Because its still common cold season so it would be too many people at the moment who all just have the common cold, so the message would end up being ignored, which would be counter-productive.

    In a couple of weeks common colds will be much, much less common so it can be listened to and obeyed.
This discussion has been closed.