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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    kamski said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    Will be interesting if this sinks him. Mind you, watching the prayer circle when VP Pence took "command" the hicks will be praying that Trump brings them salvation as they start to die

    Why do people keep on mocking this point?

    It’s not uncommon for Christians to pray for wisdom before a meeting.

    That doesn’t mean it’s the only thing they are doing
    No, although in this case it does appear to be the only thing Pence and Co are actually doing.
    Maybe but generally people get a free hit on Christians and expressions of Christianity.
    Christianity has survived worse than gentle mockery, fair or otherwise, I'm sure it will manage.
    Oh hondootedly. Just that there is a variety of standards.

    Substitute "people who like pineapple on pizza" for Christians in a whole range of situations and see how that reads.
    I wasnt disagreeing with the premise that people mock christianity in a way they would not with other faiths for example, I think it's true. I just dont get an attack of the vapours about it. Much as I respect people practicing their faith there are those who act like its the end of the world if that faith is mocked, and I happen to think faith, including the Christian faith which has been tested over thousands of years, is tougher than that.

    So I'm quite content with how it reads, thank you. People are too sensitive about faith, and too insecure about its ability to endure mockery.
    When Tulsi Gabbard becomes president and starts meetings with Hindu prayers we'll have a chance to see if anyone mocks her
    Probably not. But we should hopefully get to a place where it would be just as comfortable to do so if people wanted to. Whether it would be funny either way bring a separate matter
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Sandpit said:

    On a more tentatively hopeful note, the number of cases in the 11 towns originally quarantined in Italy is apparently starting to finally come down. There's obviously still much further to go in dealing with all this, however.

    The actual number of cases is coming down, or the growth rate of the number of cases is coming down? I suspect the latter.
    The way they are reporting the figures, the total number of cases cannot come down. You have to deduct the dead and the recovered to deduce the number of live infected cases.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    Will be interesting if this sinks him. Mind you, watching the prayer circle when VP Pence took "command" the hicks will be praying that Trump brings them salvation as they start to die

    Why do people keep on mocking this point?

    It’s not uncommon for Christians to pray for wisdom before a meeting.

    That doesn’t mean it’s the only thing they are doing
    No, although in this case it does appear to be the only thing Pence and Co are actually doing.
    Maybe but generally people get a free hit on Christians and expressions of Christianity.
    Christianity has survived worse than gentle mockery, fair or otherwise, I'm sure it will manage.
    Oh hondootedly. Just that there is a variety of standards.

    Substitute "people who like pineapple on pizza" for Christians in a whole range of situations and see how that reads.
    I wasnt disagreeing with the premise that people mock christianity in a way they would not with other faiths for example, I think it's true. I just dont get an attack of the vapours about it. Much as I respect people practicing their faith there are those who act like its the end of the world if that faith is mocked, and I happen to think faith, including the Christian faith which has been tested over thousands of years, is tougher than that.

    So I'm quite content with how it reads, thank you. People are too sensitive about faith, and too insecure about its ability to endure mockery.
    You're very serious this morning.
    I'm serious every morning, as I'm not a morning person so I get grouchy.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    I think posting tweets from random doctors, curiously many of whom seem to be posting from Emilia Reggio, should receive the same amount of opprobrium as posting a tweet about Domino's Hawaiian Special.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,401
    HYUFD said:
    Blimey.

    Chancellor must do something for small businesses, especially pubs, cafes etc
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    Will be interesting if this sinks him. Mind you, watching the prayer circle when VP Pence took "command" the hicks will be praying that Trump brings them salvation as they start to die

    Why do people keep on mocking this point?

    It’s not uncommon for Christians to pray for wisdom before a meeting.

    That doesn’t mean it’s the only thing they are doing
    No, although in this case it does appear to be the only thing Pence and Co are actually doing.
    Maybe but generally people get a free hit on Christians and expressions of Christianity.
    Christianity has survived worse than gentle mockery, fair or otherwise, I'm sure it will manage.
    Oh hondootedly. Just that there is a variety of standards.

    Substitute "people who like pineapple on pizza" for Christians in a whole range of situations and see how that reads.
    I wasnt disagreeing with the premise that people mock christianity in a way they would not with other faiths for example, I think it's true. I just dont get an attack of the vapours about it. Much as I respect people practicing their faith there are those who act like its the end of the world if that faith is mocked, and I happen to think faith, including the Christian faith which has been tested over thousands of years, is tougher than that.

    So I'm quite content with how it reads, thank you. People are too sensitive about faith, and too insecure about its ability to endure mockery.
    You're very serious this morning.
    I'm serious every morning, as I'm not a morning person so I get grouchy.
    Bah!
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited March 2020
    It seems unclear so far whether the situation in the original epicentre in Lombardy is finally beginning to stabilise or still getting worse, but the answer may obviously turn out to be very important.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,060
    kamski said:

    algarkirk said:

    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Proportionality observation: Malaria kills 400,000 people, including many children, each year. Road deaths run at over 1 million each year. Are we losing perspective?

    The question is whether the situation in Italy now and Hubei before is one that we think acceptable to "take on the chin", as Johnson put it. If it isn't acceptable we need to take effective preventative measures.
    I agree, but still wonder if we are losing perspective.
    Not sure about the UK, but Germany is still way too complacent. Everyone is just carrying on as normal.
    My wife (a senior doctor in a NRW emergency room) was in almost in tears yesterday arguing on the phone with her boss because she wants to test everyone who comes in with possible Coronavirus symptoms not just those with travel to "hotspots" or contact with known cases - which is what the RKI guidelines say. It's especially stupid because NRW itself is a by now pretty much a hotspot.
    One argument the hospital used is that if people are tested they have to be put in isolation until the result comes back, and there isn't enough space to put all those people in isolation. Which also seems stupid. The answer surely isn't to not test people.
    Thank you for this story.

    That argument from the hospital is just stupid. A person with mild symptoms who has been tested should be allowed to go home and self isolate there, at least until the result is known.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,599

    HYUFD said:
    Blimey.

    Chancellor must do something for small businesses, especially pubs, cafes etc
    Anything for renters? Or are they expected to further subsidise the asset holders after a decade of QE?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    HYUFD said:
    Blimey.

    Chancellor must do something for small businesses, especially pubs, cafes etc
    A business rates holiday, and possibly an employer NI holiday for small businesses, are apparently being considered, from reports over the weekend.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,060
    TOPPING said:

    I think posting tweets from random doctors, curiously many of whom seem to be posting from Emilia Reggio, should receive the same amount of opprobrium as posting a tweet about Domino's Hawaiian Special.

    Really? Why should I trust your opinion on all things medical than a doctor in Italy?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:
    Blimey.

    Chancellor must do something for small businesses, especially pubs, cafes etc
    A business rates holiday, and possibly an employer NI holiday for small businesses, are apparently being considered, from reports over the weekend.
    Hammond was on the radio today floating an NI holiday
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774

    HYUFD said:
    Blimey.

    Chancellor must do something for small businesses, especially pubs, cafes etc
    Anything for renters? Or are they expected to further subsidise the asset holders after a decade of QE?
    Yes, in relation to the Italian announcement, it's worth noting that most families have a family home that they've had for generations that is free of any mortgage, and people in the cities mostly rent flats. I bet the number of mortgages is small compared to the UK, and it is odd that they have been singled out.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    eristdoof said:

    TOPPING said:

    I think posting tweets from random doctors, curiously many of whom seem to be posting from Emilia Reggio, should receive the same amount of opprobrium as posting a tweet about Domino's Hawaiian Special.

    Really? Why should I trust your opinion on all things medical than a doctor in Italy?
    I'm not giving a medical opinion
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,060
    TOPPING said:

    eristdoof said:

    TOPPING said:

    I think posting tweets from random doctors, curiously many of whom seem to be posting from Emilia Reggio, should receive the same amount of opprobrium as posting a tweet about Domino's Hawaiian Special.

    Really? Why should I trust your opinion on all things medical than a doctor in Italy?
    I'm not giving a medical opinion
    Teling people to ignore medical advice is a type of medical advice!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,700
    Mr. Borough, the self-employed with irregular incomes and who need to work in person (so remote working just isn't an option) like brickies and electricians etc are going to be amongst the trickiest groups.

    With a regular salary you can try and cover that, or a percentage of it. But if someone's weekly/monthly income varies a lot, being fair is much more difficult.

    Does remind me a bit of Ed Miliband's never-explained promise for the self-employed to also have workplace pensions.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    eristdoof said:

    TOPPING said:

    eristdoof said:

    TOPPING said:

    I think posting tweets from random doctors, curiously many of whom seem to be posting from Emilia Reggio, should receive the same amount of opprobrium as posting a tweet about Domino's Hawaiian Special.

    Really? Why should I trust your opinion on all things medical than a doctor in Italy?
    I'm not giving a medical opinion
    Teling people to ignore medical advice is a type of medical advice!
    I am telling people to ignore Twitter, not medical advice.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Communion is a bad idea at the best of times - perhaps why Catholic Italy, Spain, Germany and France have spread so quickly ?

    Anglicans have communion too
    The Catholic Church here has already sent out guidance about the hygiene steps to be taken before and during Mass and other ways of limiting contact. If you are very ill or dying it looks as if your priest may not visit you at home but provide spiritual care over the phone. The last rites for the Last Rites.

    If someone close to me were dying - and I hope to God I am not put in this position - I think I would take the risk and stay with them to the end. The thought of someone I love dying alone uncomforted is horrific.
    In sickness and in health....
    As an altar boy in my youth I always thought communion, sharing the drinking vessel, was unhygienic. IIRC the priest's view was a) it was holy, so therefore safe, and b) it was alcohol, so therefore safe.
    Not sure how much alcohol is in altar wine.
    Probably not 60% !

    The only alcohol strong enough to be a disinfectant is things like Overproof Rum. Somehow I'm doubting that communion wine is as strong as Wray & Nephew's Overproof Rum.

    If it is, that's a religion I might be able to get into! ;)
    Bought some Bundaberg rum in Oz many years ago. Neat alcohol with a little Burnt Sugar colouring!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    NEW THREAD
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,125
    eristdoof said:

    kamski said:

    algarkirk said:

    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Proportionality observation: Malaria kills 400,000 people, including many children, each year. Road deaths run at over 1 million each year. Are we losing perspective?

    The question is whether the situation in Italy now and Hubei before is one that we think acceptable to "take on the chin", as Johnson put it. If it isn't acceptable we need to take effective preventative measures.
    I agree, but still wonder if we are losing perspective.
    Not sure about the UK, but Germany is still way too complacent. Everyone is just carrying on as normal.
    My wife (a senior doctor in a NRW emergency room) was in almost in tears yesterday arguing on the phone with her boss because she wants to test everyone who comes in with possible Coronavirus symptoms not just those with travel to "hotspots" or contact with known cases - which is what the RKI guidelines say. It's especially stupid because NRW itself is a by now pretty much a hotspot.
    One argument the hospital used is that if people are tested they have to be put in isolation until the result comes back, and there isn't enough space to put all those people in isolation. Which also seems stupid. The answer surely isn't to not test people.
    Thank you for this story.

    That argument from the hospital is just stupid. A person with mild symptoms who has been tested should be allowed to go home and self isolate there, at least until the result is known.
    Yes, although some of these people have ended up in the emergency department because they do need treatment, whether or not they have coronavirus, so might not be appropriate to tell them to go home. But it should be possible to test them and decide which ones most need to be quarantined before the result.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    kamski said:

    algarkirk said:

    FF43 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Proportionality observation: Malaria kills 400,000 people, including many children, each year. Road deaths run at over 1 million each year. Are we losing perspective?

    The question is whether the situation in Italy now and Hubei before is one that we think acceptable to "take on the chin", as Johnson put it. If it isn't acceptable we need to take effective preventative measures.
    I agree, but still wonder if we are losing perspective.
    Not sure about the UK, but Germany is still way too complacent. Everyone is just carrying on as normal.
    My wife (a senior doctor in a NRW emergency room) was in almost in tears yesterday arguing on the phone with her boss because she wants to test everyone who comes in with possible Coronavirus symptoms not just those with travel to "hotspots" or contact with known cases - which is what the RKI guidelines say. It's especially stupid because NRW itself is a by now pretty much a hotspot.
    One argument the hospital used is that if people are tested they have to be put in isolation until the result comes back, and there isn't enough space to put all those people in isolation. Which also seems stupid. The answer surely isn't to not test people.
    There is a pre-virus which has infected much of the Western world.

    The signs and symptoms of the pre-virus include: comparisons to normal cold and flu, an unrealistic confidence in the health care system, belief that these things don't happen over here and that the Italians/Chinese are thickies.

    In some carriers, the pre-virus rapidly switches to blind-panic and anger at why we weren't sufficiently prepared. In some others the pre-virus never progresses from the early signs and symptoms.

    Eventually the coronavirus starts doing its thing across everyone, irrespective of whether they had early signs and symptoms of the pre-virus.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    edited March 2020
    kle4 said:

    kamski said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Charles said:

    Will be interesting if this sinks him. Mind you, watching the prayer circle when VP Pence took "command" the hicks will be praying that Trump brings them salvation as they start to die

    Why do people keep on mocking this point?

    It’s not uncommon for Christians to pray for wisdom before a meeting.

    That doesn’t mean it’s the only thing they are doing
    No, although in this case it does appear to be the only thing Pence and Co are actually doing.
    Maybe but generally people get a free hit on Christians and expressions of Christianity.
    Christianity has survived worse than gentle mockery, fair or otherwise, I'm sure it will manage.
    Oh hondootedly. Just that there is a variety of standards.

    Substitute "people who like pineapple on pizza" for Christians in a whole range of situations and see how that reads.
    I wasnt disagreeing with the premise that people mock christianity in a way they would not with other faiths for example, I think it's true. I just dont get an attack of the vapours about it. Much as I respect people practicing their faith there are those who act like its the end of the world if that faith is mocked, and I happen to think faith, including the Christian faith which has been tested over thousands of years, is tougher than that.

    So I'm quite content with how it reads, thank you. People are too sensitive about faith, and too insecure about its ability to endure mockery.
    When Tulsi Gabbard becomes president and starts meetings with Hindu prayers we'll have a chance to see if anyone mocks her
    Probably not. But we should hopefully get to a place where it would be just as comfortable to do so if people wanted to. Whether it would be funny either way bring a separate matter
    Many years ago the hospital where I was working employed a pre-registration pharmacy graduate who was a very devout Muslim, and insisted on 'prayer time'. We carefully explained the problems involved, but allowed him, and another Muslim whom he persuaded to support him, to have their times, in a storeroom which more or less faced East, but the time was knocked off otherwise allocated meal breaks.
    Seemed to work OK, but after he qualified he went elsewhere. Which wasn't unusual.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:
    Blimey.

    Chancellor must do something for small businesses, especially pubs, cafes etc
    Anything for renters? Or are they expected to further subsidise the asset holders after a decade of QE?
    Yes, in relation to the Italian announcement, it's worth noting that most families have a family home that they've had for generations that is free of any mortgage, and people in the cities mostly rent flats. I bet the number of mortgages is small compared to the UK, and it is odd that they have been singled out.
    It costs the government nothing to tell banks to offer a moratorium on debt repayments. The banks won’t mind too much either, they’ll still be making interest on the missed payments.

    This is going to test the Euro to breaking point though.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,896
    Nate Silver is being accused of all sorts by Bernie Bros.

    https://twitter.com/AaronLangeTenor/status/1237259303309856768
    https://twitter.com/JPNessFant/status/1237262575907123200

    Seems they don't like his forecast much.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,477

    What does she know?

    The decision to delay closing schools and introduce other strict measures to combat coronavirus has been defended by England's deputy chief medical officer.
    Dr Jenny Harries said experts are assessing new cases on an hourly basis to achieve a "balanced response".

    She told BBC Breakfast new measures could follow as UK cases begin to rise rapidly over the next two weeks. In the UK, five people with the virus have died. There were 319 confirmed cases as of 09:00 GMT on Monday.

    Dr Harries said the vast majority of those diagnosed with coronavirus in Britain are "pretty well" but that they may "feel rough for a few days".

    She said cancelling big outdoor events like football matches would not necessarily be guided by science. "The virus will not survive very long outside," she said. "Many outdoor events, particularly, are safe."


    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-51812326

    Bring on the armchair epidemiologists, I say!

    I saw that interview on the Beeb this morning.

    Dr Harries strikes me as a serious person for a serious time. Very impressive.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209
    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Communion is a bad idea at the best of times - perhaps why Catholic Italy, Spain, Germany and France have spread so quickly ?

    Eire and the West of Scotland have a he potential for the same effect.
    I doubt West of Scotland Catholic population is in any way comparable with those countries , will be miniscule in comparison.
This discussion has been closed.