"Authorities have designated London's iconic Hyde Park to be used as a morgue in their worst-case scenario for the novel coronavirus outbreak, a report said.
“We have contingency plans to open up a morgue in Hyde Park, in tents,” Nickie Aiken was quoted as saying by Bloomberg.
“We would run the morgue for most of central London.”
Yep but delaying COBRA until Monday is, as Tom Newton-Dunn (The Sun) said, a really poor optic for a concerned public.
But how concerned is the public at the moment? We obsess about it here and the press are full of it, but I suspect most people don't count it as a serious risk unless someone they know catches it. People at work aren't talking about it, events in London are happening with nobody suggesting they should be postponed, etc. I think the average reaction is "This sounds a bit worrying, I hope it blows over" - no more than that at the moment.
Similarly, I expect Johnson is getting credit for sounding concerned and summoning COBRA - people won't follow the details of what day etc. Corbyn's "part-time PM" remark has had some traction, but at present Johnson is still having an easy ride.
On topic there is absolutely no way a brokered convention beats Trump. If Bernie should get it, Bernie denied it, Trump wins. Bernie supporters won’t vote for the stitch up nominee. So you have to ask what is the true motive of democrats who travel that way? Trump less of a problem to them than liberal left.
Normally I would agree with you, but I think coronavirus throws everything up in the air.
"Michelle Obama and Hillary Clinton. Not going to happen, we’ve moved on from the 1952 Democrat convention – they are much wider affairs now. Delegate horse trading would be between existing candidates."
Except... I cannot see the point of horse trading between existing candidates who those same delegates KNOW will lose to Trump. And neither will they.
Imagine if the Democrats could instead hold out the prospect of an Obama back in the White House....
I don't think you realise how vulnerable Trump is on healthcare. It's his achilles heel. And this attempt to downplay the virus and call it a hoax and the common cold and the like could backfire horribly if people start getting sick.
(You also have the problem, of course, that if it's a hoax, you can't cancel your rallies...)
People don't change their minds easily. Trump's fans love him. But if they start getting sick, and Trump is seen to be a part of the cause, then it really could be tickets for him. Being on death's door (or having a loved one on death's door, and being in fear...), that changes your perspective.
Even Sanders could win. (And I never thought I'd say that.)
Indeed. Trump is screwing up not just the health crisis but the politics of this.
The politics should be simple for him to sell smartly. 'This is a deadly, serious and dangerous disease that started in China. Now is the time to close borders, restrict travel and to keep in place the people like willing to act tough not let the crazy Democrats let the world in.' [I don't believe that, just using an argument he could sell]
Instead he's saying "nah its all fine, its a media hoax" which is hard to row back from when deaths start being reported.
That is huge, in so many ways. For the Italian economy, for airline companies, and for perceptions of Italy, Europe and travel.
International tourism is one of the biggest industries in the world. If it basically ENDS, for a year or more, then we are all staring at a deep recession. I think. Or worse.
US airlines have already curtailed flights to Italy
The Italian economy is already shaky, this will send it into severe recession.
What will that do to the eurozone?
Fuck. I am not trying to be pessimistic, but almost every outcome of this is BAD. I would love it if a PB-er could find grounds for optimism.
On topic there is absolutely no way a brokered convention beats Trump. If Bernie should get it, Bernie denied it, Trump wins. Bernie supporters won’t vote for the stitch up nominee. So you have to ask what is the true motive of democrats who travel that way? Trump less of a problem to them than liberal left.
Normally I would agree with you, but I think coronavirus throws everything up in the air.
"Michelle Obama and Hillary Clinton. Not going to happen, we’ve moved on from the 1952 Democrat convention – they are much wider affairs now. Delegate horse trading would be between existing candidates."
Except... I cannot see the point of horse trading between existing candidates who those same delegates KNOW will lose to Trump. And neither will they.
Imagine if the Democrats could instead hold out the prospect of an Obama back in the White House....
I don't think you realise how vulnerable Trump is on healthcare. It's his achilles heel. And this attempt to downplay the virus and call it a hoax and the common cold and the like could backfire horribly if people start getting sick.
(You also have the problem, of course, that if it's a hoax, you can't cancel your rallies...)
People don't change their minds easily. Trump's fans love him. But if they start getting sick, and Trump is seen to be a part of the cause, then it really could be tickets for him. Being on death's door (or having a loved one on death's door, and being in fear...), that changes your perspective.
Even Sanders could win. (And I never thought I'd say that.)
Indeed. Trump is screwing up not just the health crisis but the politics of this.
The politics should be simple for him to sell smartly. 'This is a deadly, serious and dangerous disease that started in China. Now is the time to close borders, restrict travel and to keep in place the people like willing to act tough not let the crazy Democrats let the world in.' [I don't believe that, just using an argument he could sell]
Instead he's saying "nah its all fine, its a media hoax" which is hard to row back from when deaths start being reported.
Bollocks! I find that about as believable as the idea of eadric being calm and rational.
No chance with the deficit a concern, with investment expenditure getting lined up, with austerity at an end etc was there about to be a 2p income tax cut 4+ years before the General Election.
"Authorities have designated London's iconic Hyde Park to be used as a morgue in their worst-case scenario for the novel coronavirus outbreak, a report said.
“We have contingency plans to open up a morgue in Hyde Park, in tents,” Nickie Aiken was quoted as saying by Bloomberg.
“We would run the morgue for most of central London.”
Speaking of sport though, next months international friendlies should be cancelled. They serve no purpose anyway and this is as good a reason as any to be rid of them.
That is huge, in so many ways. For the Italian economy, for airline companies, and for perceptions of Italy, Europe and travel.
International tourism is one of the biggest industries in the world. If it basically ENDS, for a year or more, then we are all staring at a deep recession. I think. Or worse.
US airlines have already curtailed flights to Italy
The Italian economy is already shaky, this will send it into severe recession.
What will that do to the eurozone?
Fuck. I am not trying to be pessimistic, but almost every outcome of this is BAD. I would love it if a PB-er could find grounds for optimism.
Travel and tourism accounted for 10.5% of global GDP in 2018 and grew faster than world GDP. As far as I can see, the travel and tourism sector is basically unwinding before our eyes.
Your question about second order consequences is the right one but not only for the Eurozone.
The Fed pump on Friday will soon be seen as pissing in the wind. Corporate travel policies will not suddenly relax because of cheaper rates. And nor will people suddenly be minded to take a holiday to a foreign country with a possibly inadequate level of healthcare.
Unless the virus becomes well contained basically everywhere in the next 6-8 weeks, I fear we are looking at a more severe financial and economic crisis than 2008.
Bollocks! I find that about as believable as the idea of eadric being calm and rational.
No chance with the deficit a concern, with investment expenditure getting lined up, with austerity at an end etc was there about to be a 2p income tax cut 4+ years before the General Election.
I don't want to pay a lot of money to be around fat gluttonous people who drink too much, have nothing of interest to say and don't know how to behave.
Absolutely right. If you want that you can get it on PB for free.
Regular readers might have noticed that I'm not exactly the greatest fan of Boris and this government, but, really - so far at least, in respect of this crisis there is absolutely no reason to criticise either them, or the NHS, or PHE, or the Chief Medical Officer. The response so far has been exemplary: all the cases have been followed up rapidly and efficiently, the quarantine and isolation measures have been (as far as we know) spot-on, we seem to have been quicker and more efficient testing people than any other country, and those who have fallen ill have been properly treated: what on earth else can we expect? Admittedly I'd prefer Jeremy Hunt to be in charge if things get worse, but so far, what are people bitching about?
Not appearing on the Today programme to utter the usual reassurances and platitudes is a mistake, for sure, but it's a purely political mistake, not a mistake in any substantive sense in terms of actually managing the crisis.
For once the government has need of experts. Hopefully not for the last time.
We can handle an epidemic of current Italian size, perhaps even ROK. If it got bigger than that it would all get rather rickety.
Yes, at the moment the experts can and should be left to handle it, which they are doing. If and when things get a lot worse, there will be difficult decisions to be made, and that is where you need the politicians to take control and responsibility, on expert advice.
The decision to send the nation into deep quarantine - closing schools, shuttering sports - needs to be taken in the next week or two. To be frank. That's going by the few successful struggles we see to date: in Singapore and HK etc
For the British people to accept these immense restrictions, they need to be told the truth by a candid prime minister. I see no attempt at this from Boris. He's still modestly bumbling,
On Monday morning he needs to adjust his oratorical cummerbund and square with the nation.
At present there has not been a some coronavirus death on UK soil, unless and until that changes the Government's strategy of advising hand washing, using tissues etc and staying home if you have flu symptoms after travelling to an infected area seems to be working fine.
No need to introduce excessive measures unless actually needed
Bollocks! I find that about as believable as the idea of eadric being calm and rational.
No chance with the deficit a concern, with investment expenditure getting lined up, with austerity at an end etc was there about to be a 2p income tax cut 4+ years before the General Election.
Speaking of sport though, next months international friendlies should be cancelled. They serve no purpose anyway and this is as good a reason as any to be rid of them.
Plus anyone who refers to soccer players as "the lads".
Bollocks! I find that about as believable as the idea of eadric being calm and rational.
No chance with the deficit a concern, with investment expenditure getting lined up, with austerity at an end etc was there about to be a 2p income tax cut 4+ years before the General Election.
That was never going to happen.
Yep. Sounds like utter bollx.
But he thinks that it will impress people.
He wants to be the backbench figure head for the deep Thatcherites.
What do PBers think the chances are of the nominee being either Sanders or Biden?
Looking around 65% Bernie, 20% Biden, 5% Buttigeig, 5% Warren to me, 5% the remainder. Sorry, Amy.
The Democratic National Convention is in July.
What are the odds that one or more of the front-runners comes down with coronavirus between now and then?
Significant.
Why?
Because Coronavirus looks as though it is loose in the US now, their public health response is less than stellar, and the candidates will be criss crossing the country. It’s not particularly likely for now, but it’s certainly possible.
That is huge, in so many ways. For the Italian economy, for airline companies, and for perceptions of Italy, Europe and travel.
International tourism is one of the biggest industries in the world. If it basically ENDS, for a year or more, then we are all staring at a deep recession. I think. Or worse.
US airlines have already curtailed flights to Italy
The Italian economy is already shaky, this will send it into severe recession.
What will that do to the eurozone?
Fuck. I am not trying to be pessimistic, but almost every outcome of this is BAD. I would love it if a PB-er could find grounds for optimism.
The fall in the oil price will not be helpful to some unpleasant regimes.
What do PBers think the chances are of the nominee being either Sanders or Biden?
Looking around 65% Bernie, 20% Biden, 5% Buttigeig, 5% Warren to me, 5% the remainder. Sorry, Amy.
The Democratic National Convention is in July.
What are the odds that one or more of the front-runners comes down with coronavirus between now and then?
Significant.
Why?
Because Coronavirus looks as though it is loose in the US now, their public health response is less than stellar, and the candidates will be criss crossing the country. It’s not particularly likely for now, but it’s certainly possible.
Look on the bright side -all the candidates travel by private jet so their chance of infection is minimized.
At present there has not been a some coronavirus death on UK soil, unless and until that changes the Government's strategy of advising hand washing, using tissues etc and staying home if you have flu symptoms after travelling to an infected area seems to be working fine.
No need to introduce excessive measures unless actually needed
This would be fine and sensible but for the time lag. If the mortality rate is somewhere around 1% and takes maybe about a month to die after initial infection, what you're advocating is not taking these measures until several weeks after getting on for 100 people have been infected. At which point you'll have many more than 100 people walking around infecting other people, so a much bigger number of infected than that at the point where you start closing the schools or whatever.
At present there has not been a some coronavirus death on UK soil, unless and until that changes the Government's strategy of advising hand washing, using tissues etc and staying home if you have flu symptoms after travelling to an infected area seems to be working fine.
No need to introduce excessive measures unless actually needed
This would be fine and sensible but for the time lag. If the mortality rate is somewhere around 1% and takes maybe about a month to die after initial infection, what you're advocating is not taking these measures until several weeks after getting on for 100 people have been infected. At which point you'll have many more than 100 people walking around infecting other people, so a much bigger number of infected than that at the point where you start closing the schools or whatever.
1% with adequate medical care. 5%+ without (Wuhan). 20,000ish is probably the magic number where we start tipping from the former to the latter.
As a matter of utterly unscientific and statistically invalid measurement, I was in both my local pharmacy and both local supermarkets today. All had normal supplies of hand sanitizers and face masks available. No, I didn't buy any.
Yep but delaying COBRA until Monday is, as Tom Newton-Dunn (The Sun) said, a really poor optic for a concerned public.
But how concerned is the public at the moment? We obsess about it here and the press are full of it, but I suspect most people don't count it as a serious risk unless someone they know catches it. People at work aren't talking about it, events in London are happening with nobody suggesting they should be postponed, etc. I think the average reaction is "This sounds a bit worrying, I hope it blows over" - no more than that at the moment.
Similarly, I expect Johnson is getting credit for sounding concerned and summoning COBRA - people won't follow the details of what day etc. Corbyn's "part-time PM" remark has had some traction, but at present Johnson is still having an easy ride.
If we manage to contain the virus here in the UK and limit its impact then I agree with you - the public will be content.
But I think there's now enough evidence of its potentially devastating international harmful effects that our government should be stepping up a gear and taking more decisive actions to try to contain the spread of the virus and to ensure the public are better informed of the situation. I'm amazed how unfazed most people are at the moment
If it all blows over - great. If not, people will ask why the government didn't do more and explain more when it could.
Yep but delaying COBRA until Monday is, as Tom Newton-Dunn (The Sun) said, a really poor optic for a concerned public.
But how concerned is the public at the moment? We obsess about it here and the press are full of it, but I suspect most people don't count it as a serious risk unless someone they know catches it. People at work aren't talking about it, events in London are happening with nobody suggesting they should be postponed, etc. I think the average reaction is "This sounds a bit worrying, I hope it blows over" - no more than that at the moment.
Similarly, I expect Johnson is getting credit for sounding concerned and summoning COBRA - people won't follow the details of what day etc. Corbyn's "part-time PM" remark has had some traction, but at present Johnson is still having an easy ride.
If we manage to contain the virus here in the UK and limit its impact then I agree with you - the public will be content.
But I think there's now enough evidence of its potentially devastating international harmful effects that our government should be stepping up a gear and taking more decisive actions to try to contain the spread of the virus and to ensure the public are better informed of the situation. I'm amazed how unfazed most people are at the moment
If it all blows over - great. If not, people will ask why we didn't do more when we could.
Stepping up a gear beyond the quarantining and testing we're already doing far more than any other country?
What more do you want? Seriously?
We should never fall into the trap of "something must be done, this is something, therefore this must be done". The government and NHS have a plan and are following it.
Yep but delaying COBRA until Monday is, as Tom Newton-Dunn (The Sun) said, a really poor optic for a concerned public.
But how concerned is the public at the moment? We obsess about it here and the press are full of it, but I suspect most people don't count it as a serious risk unless someone they know catches it. People at work aren't talking about it, events in London are happening with nobody suggesting they should be postponed, etc. I think the average reaction is "This sounds a bit worrying, I hope it blows over" - no more than that at the moment.
Similarly, I expect Johnson is getting credit for sounding concerned and summoning COBRA - people won't follow the details of what day etc. Corbyn's "part-time PM" remark has had some traction, but at present Johnson is still having an easy ride.
If we manage to contain the virus here in the UK and limit its impact then I agree with you - the public will be content.
But I think there's now enough evidence of its potentially devastating international harmful effects that our government should be stepping up a gear and taking more decisive actions to try to contain the spread of the virus and to ensure the public are better informed of the situation. I'm amazed how unfazed most people are at the moment
If it all blows over - great. If not, people will ask why we didn't do more when we could.
Stepping up a gear beyond the quarantining and testing we're already doing far more than any other country?
What more do you want? Seriously?
We should never fall into the trap of "something must be done, this is something, therefore this must be done". The government and NHS have a plan and are following it.
What do PBers think the chances are of the nominee being either Sanders or Biden?
Looking around 65% Bernie, 20% Biden, 5% Buttigeig, 5% Warren to me, 5% the remainder. Sorry, Amy.
The Democratic National Convention is in July.
What are the odds that one or more of the front-runners comes down with coronavirus between now and then?
Significant.
Why?
Because politicians on the campaign trail probably make physical contact with 100-200x the number of people that you or I might.
That means their chance of getting infected are going to be much higher than you or I.
Add in rallies, and the fact that Trump and Sanders both revel in speeches to thousands of the adoring, and they must have a meaningful risk of infection.
(Of course, no one would turn up to watch Biden stumble through a speech, so he's probably OK.)
Bollocks! I find that about as believable as the idea of eadric being calm and rational.
No chance with the deficit a concern, with investment expenditure getting lined up, with austerity at an end etc was there about to be a 2p income tax cut 4+ years before the General Election.
That was never going to happen.
Yep. Sounds like utter bollx.
But he thinks that it will impress people.
He wants to be the backbench figure head for the deep Thatcherites.
That is huge, in so many ways. For the Italian economy, for airline companies, and for perceptions of Italy, Europe and travel.
International tourism is one of the biggest industries in the world. If it basically ENDS, for a year or more, then we are all staring at a deep recession. I think. Or worse.
US airlines have already curtailed flights to Italy
The Italian economy is already shaky, this will send it into severe recession.
What will that do to the eurozone?
Fuck. I am not trying to be pessimistic, but almost every outcome of this is BAD. I would love it if a PB-er could find grounds for optimism.
The fall in the oil price will not be helpful to some unpleasant regimes.
Yep but delaying COBRA until Monday is, as Tom Newton-Dunn (The Sun) said, a really poor optic for a concerned public.
But how concerned is the public at the moment? We obsess about it here and the press are full of it, but I suspect most people don't count it as a serious risk unless someone they know catches it. People at work aren't talking about it, events in London are happening with nobody suggesting they should be postponed, etc. I think the average reaction is "This sounds a bit worrying, I hope it blows over" - no more than that at the moment.
Similarly, I expect Johnson is getting credit for sounding concerned and summoning COBRA - people won't follow the details of what day etc. Corbyn's "part-time PM" remark has had some traction, but at present Johnson is still having an easy ride.
If we manage to contain the virus here in the UK and limit its impact then I agree with you - the public will be content.
But I think there's now enough evidence of its potentially devastating international harmful effects that our government should be stepping up a gear and taking more decisive actions to try to contain the spread of the virus and to ensure the public are better informed of the situation. I'm amazed how unfazed most people are at the moment
If it all blows over - great. If not, people will ask why we didn't do more when we could.
Stepping up a gear beyond the quarantining and testing we're already doing far more than any other country?
What more do you want? Seriously?
We should never fall into the trap of "something must be done, this is something, therefore this must be done". The government and NHS have a plan and are following it.
Don't do something, stand there.
The government should do something. The government is doing it. The NHS should do something. The NHS is doing it.
That is the boring truth. There is a plan, it is being implemented, so far it is working. Boring truth backed up by facts rather than hysterics.
Daily Express version: How Coronavirus could impact house prices Daily Mail: Was the driver of Princess Di’s car suffering from Coronavirus? The Guardian: Will the tories use the Coronavirus outbreak as an excuse to sell off the nhs to Trump? The Independent: Coronavirus no platformed for xenophobic actions at mostly killing Chinese people. Inside report, how ethnic minorities are suffering the dual fear of white supremacy and a nasty bout of the flu.
Daily Express version: How Coronavirus could impact house prices Daily Mail: Was the driver of Princess Di’s car suffering from Coronavirus? The Guardian: Will the tories use the Coronavirus outbreak as an excuse to sell off the nhs to Trump? The Independent: Coronavirus no platformed for xenophobic actions at mostly killing Chinese people. Inside report, how ethnic minorities are suffering the dual fear of white supremacy and a nasty bout of the flu.
The Sun: Naked Coronavirus on Page 3 Daily Mirror Coronavirus all the Tories fault
Yep but delaying COBRA until Monday is, as Tom Newton-Dunn (The Sun) said, a really poor optic for a concerned public.
But how concerned is the public at the moment? We obsess about it here and the press are full of it, but I suspect most people don't count it as a serious risk unless someone they know catches it. People at work aren't talking about it, events in London are happening with nobody suggesting they should be postponed, etc. I think the average reaction is "This sounds a bit worrying, I hope it blows over" - no more than that at the moment.
Similarly, I expect Johnson is getting credit for sounding concerned and summoning COBRA - people won't follow the details of what day etc. Corbyn's "part-time PM" remark has had some traction, but at present Johnson is still having an easy ride.
If we manage to contain the virus here in the UK and limit its impact then I agree with you - the public will be content.
But I think there's now enough evidence of its potentially devastating international harmful effects that our government should be stepping up a gear and taking more decisive actions to try to contain the spread of the virus and to ensure the public are better informed of the situation. I'm amazed how unfazed most people are at the moment
If it all blows over - great. If not, people will ask why we didn't do more when we could.
Stepping up a gear beyond the quarantining and testing we're already doing far more than any other country?
What more do you want? Seriously?
We should never fall into the trap of "something must be done, this is something, therefore this must be done". The government and NHS have a plan and are following it.
I agree. Don't just act for the sake of acting. But don't duck hard decisions either.
For instance, The Cheltenham NH festival is due to start in 10 days time. My favourite sporting event of the year. Tens of thousands of people will be travelling to it, including some from most parts of the world. They will be in very close proximity to each other for about 8 hours. Should it go ahead? Hard decisions need to be made - and soon.
We've got quarantine isolation areas in the Wirral and elsewhere. We've got isolation ICUs for anyone effected We've got information being communicated. We've got 111 set up to take calls for anyone at risk. We've conducted thousands and thousands of tests.
Do you want him to be gladhanding nurses? Will that make this better? We don't need photo ops, we need the job to be done well.
Once thing the Japanese government did - albeit probably too late and excessively vaguely - was just to *ask* (not force) people to try to scale back events with a lot of people and work from home where possible.
This probably helps event organizers, because you've got something planned for two weeks from now and the virus spreads a little bit as expected, you can't really be confident people are going to show up, so it's better if you have an excuse to cancel early and in an orderly way. Likewise a lot of people would probably like to work from home but don't want to appear to be panicking, so if you just have a government direction to try to do that, it's a lot easier for them to justify it.
This is a bit of a weird case because the risk to any given individual is currently so miniscule that you should basically ignore it. However, since the very few unlucky people who hit the coronovirus jackpot then spread it to other people, currently at a rate of more than 1, reducing that individual teensy risk to an exceedingly teensy risk has a big benefit across the whole population. So if you can just give people an excuse to listen to their inner voice of irrational panic, and direct that into measures that actually help reduce their (miniscule) risk like hand-washing and working from home, you can solve the collective action problem very cheaply.
Daily Express version: How Coronavirus could impact house prices Daily Mail: Was the driver of Princess Di’s car suffering from Coronavirus? The Guardian: Will the tories use the Coronavirus outbreak as an excuse to sell off the nhs to Trump? The Independent: Coronavirus no platformed for xenophobic actions at mostly killing Chinese people. Inside report, how ethnic minorities are suffering the dual fear of white supremacy and a nasty bout of the flu.
The Sun: Does the Coronavirus give women bigger tits
Daily Express version: How Coronavirus could impact house prices Daily Mail: Was the driver of Princess Di’s car suffering from Coronavirus? The Guardian: Will the tories use the Coronavirus outbreak as an excuse to sell off the nhs to Trump? The Independent: Coronavirus no platformed for xenophobic actions at mostly killing Chinese people. Inside report, how ethnic minorities are suffering the dual fear of white supremacy and a nasty bout of the flu.
Although I think you have the Mail and Express the wrong way around.
Daily Express version: How Coronavirus could impact house prices Daily Mail: Was the driver of Princess Di’s car suffering from Coronavirus? The Guardian: Will the tories use the Coronavirus outbreak as an excuse to sell off the nhs to Trump? The Independent: Coronavirus no platformed for xenophobic actions at mostly killing Chinese people. Inside report, how ethnic minorities are suffering the dual fear of white supremacy and a nasty bout of the flu.
The Sun: Does the Coronavirus give women bigger tits
Star:
Love Island big tit star found on moon spreading virus.
Yep but delaying COBRA until Monday is, as Tom Newton-Dunn (The Sun) said, a really poor optic for a concerned public.
But how concerned is the public at the moment? We obsess about it here and the press are full of it, but I suspect most people don't count it as a serious risk unless someone they know catches it. People at work aren't talking about it, events in London are happening with nobody suggesting they should be postponed, etc. I think the average reaction is "This sounds a bit worrying, I hope it blows over" - no more than that at the moment.
Similarly, I expect Johnson is getting credit for sounding concerned and summoning COBRA - people won't follow the details of what day etc. Corbyn's "part-time PM" remark has had some traction, but at present Johnson is still having an easy ride.
If we manage to contain the virus here in the UK and limit its impact then I agree with you - the public will be content.
But I think there's now enough evidence of its potentially devastating international harmful effects that our government should be stepping up a gear and taking more decisive actions to try to contain the spread of the virus and to ensure the public are better informed of the situation. I'm amazed how unfazed most people are at the moment
If it all blows over - great. If not, people will ask why we didn't do more when we could.
Stepping up a gear beyond the quarantining and testing we're already doing far more than any other country?
What more do you want? Seriously?
We should never fall into the trap of "something must be done, this is something, therefore this must be done". The government and NHS have a plan and are following it.
Don't do something, stand there.
The government should do something. The government is doing it. The NHS should do something. The NHS is doing it.
That is the boring truth. There is a plan, it is being implemented, so far it is working. Boring truth backed up by facts rather than hysterics.
They have barely started on the public awareness strategy necessary to achieve the same result as in Singapore. And they start a generation behind Asia, where wearing of face masks while sick is considered basic manners.
They are also doing stupid shit still like making my immuno compromised mother sit in a packed GP waiting room with infectious disease patients to get a regular injection. It’s easy. Separate clinics into a morning (regular) and afternoon (infectious) shift, disinfect every night.
Roll out home delivery of NHS prescription medication on mass so that vulnerable people need go nowhere a pharmacy.
Daily Express version: How Coronavirus could impact house prices Daily Mail: Was the driver of Princess Di’s car suffering from Coronavirus? The Guardian: Will the tories use the Coronavirus outbreak as an excuse to sell off the nhs to Trump? The Independent: Coronavirus no platformed for xenophobic actions at mostly killing Chinese people. Inside report, how ethnic minorities are suffering the dual fear of white supremacy and a nasty bout of the flu.
The Sun: Naked Coronavirus on Page 3 Daily Mirror Coronavirus all the Tories fault
Democrats strategists and donors say there’s a path for former Vice President Joe Biden to capitalize on a big win in South Carolina and become the party’s presidential nominee.
While Biden goes into the race behind Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) in the delegate count, observers say it’s not an insurmountable lead at this time.
“A Biden win turns the tide,” said Basil Smikle, who served as the executive director of the New York state Democratic Party.
"They have barely started on the public awareness strategy necessary to achieve the same result as in Singapore. And they start a generation behind Asia, where wearing of face masks while sick is considered basic manners.
They are also doing stupid shit still like making my immuno compromised mother sit in a packed GP waiting room with infectious disease patients to get a regular injection. It’s easy. Separate clinics into a morning (regular) and afternoon (infectious) shift, disinfect every night.
Roll out home delivery of NHS prescription medication on mass so that vulnerable people need go nowhere a pharmacy.
Etc.."
That all sounds very sensible. We should be doing and explaining these things now.
I don't believe Texas will go blue this time but it is close. When it swings that will be a seismic event in US politics.
Yep. California was usually a Rebublican state until 1992. Now it's solidly Democrat. When Texas goes the same way Republicans are going to be screwed.
I don't believe Texas will go blue this time but it is close. When it swings that will be a seismic event in US politics.
Yep. California was usually a Rebublican state until 1992. Now it's solidly Democrat. When Texas goes the same way Republicans are going to be screwed.
At most Texas will be a swing state it won't be safe blue and of course Trump won Midwestern and rustbelt states like Michigan and Wisconsin and Pennsylvania which have not gone Republican since the 1980s
"Authorities have designated London's iconic Hyde Park to be used as a morgue in their worst-case scenario for the novel coronavirus outbreak, a report said.
“We have contingency plans to open up a morgue in Hyde Park, in tents,” Nickie Aiken was quoted as saying by Bloomberg.
“We would run the morgue for most of central London.”
We've got quarantine isolation areas in the Wirral and elsewhere. We've got isolation ICUs for anyone effected We've got information being communicated. We've got 111 set up to take calls for anyone at risk. We've conducted thousands and thousands of tests.
Do you want him to be gladhanding nurses? Will that make this better? We don't need photo ops, we need the job to be done well.
Once thing the Japanese government did - albeit probably too late and excessively vaguely - was just to *ask* (not force) people to try to scale back events with a lot of people and work from home where possible.
This probably helps event organizers, because you've got something planned for two weeks from now and the virus spreads a little bit as expected, you can't really be confident people are going to show up, so it's better if you have an excuse to cancel early and in an orderly way. Likewise a lot of people would probably like to work from home but don't want to appear to be panicking, so if you just have a government direction to try to do that, it's a lot easier for them to justify it.
This is a bit of a weird case because the risk to any given individual is currently so miniscule that you should basically ignore it. However, since the very few unlucky people who hit the coronovirus jackpot then spread it to other people, currently at a rate of more than 1, reducing that individual teensy risk to an exceedingly teensy risk has a big benefit across the whole population. So if you can just give people an excuse to listen to their inner voice of irrational panic, and direct that into measures that actually help reduce their (miniscule) risk like hand-washing and working from home, you can solve the collective action problem very cheaply.
The one issue with the Corona Doomers from a few weeks ago is that they seem to have largely been proven right on what the situation would look like now.
I'd class myself as one of those doomers. It was fairly easy to predict the opening salvo of this virus.
What is almost now impossible to predict is the scale and scope of this pandemic. But every facet of life will be changed or touched by this.
Brexit is a mere gnat on an elephants backside compared to the impact of this virus.
The one thing more contagious than coronavirus is hysteria. This hysteria outbreak really has become contagious it seems.
Yep, it is the hysteria and media who have caused massive losses for investors rather tha the virus itself.
It seems to me that the pessimists are making sober factual statements about the real world which turn out to be true (the disease will spread, people will die, markets will fall) while the anti-pessimists (they lack the jollity to be called optimists) are getting stuck in to a Trump type meta narrative about fake news and motive and hysteria. Blaming market falls on hysteria when the entirely factual shutdown of much of Chinese industry and the worldwide travel and holiday industry are in play is not rational and not likely to do you any good. Indeed, you are in danger of inflicting serious losses on yourself if you start actually believing that it is a whimsical, sentiment thing which could go into reverse at any moment.
The realists are saying it will spread, people will die and markets with fall. The hysterics are saying hundreds of thousands will die and we are all doomed
I don't see anyone saying anything approximating to "we are all doomed," and I will be astonished if in a years time the worldwide mortality from this is under 200,000.
@eadric with his insistence on 400k dead in the UK alone, with @GideonWise not far behind.
I’m not convinced by your number but it is certainly plausible
Fyck off, old boy.
I have postulated several scenarios, presuming the virus does not die out in the sun (which I have also said is quite possible, and is still possible)
Find me the comment where I INSIST on 400k UK dead, for sure, or shut the f*ck up.
It is the single scenario that you emphasis continually referring to the “realistic worst case” - which it is not
It is a low probability outcome which a possible but not plausibly likely
I’ve looked at it several times but never gone. It really doesn’t appeal for reasons similar to those you’ve stated. But there is no question that those on index linked pensions have loved it until now.
It is not for me. But Corona-wise surely if everyone has s tested upon boarding, it's the definition of safe?
Comments
“We have contingency plans to open up a morgue in Hyde Park, in tents,” Nickie Aiken was quoted as saying by Bloomberg.
“We would run the morgue for most of central London.”
https://www.dailysabah.com/world/europe/hyde-park-to-serve-as-morgue-in-londons-worst-case-coronavirus-scenario
The politics should be simple for him to sell smartly. 'This is a deadly, serious and dangerous disease that started in China. Now is the time to close borders, restrict travel and to keep in place the people like willing to act tough not let the crazy Democrats let the world in.' [I don't believe that, just using an argument he could sell]
Instead he's saying "nah its all fine, its a media hoax" which is hard to row back from when deaths start being reported.
No chance with the deficit a concern, with investment expenditure getting lined up, with austerity at an end etc was there about to be a 2p income tax cut 4+ years before the General Election.
That was never going to happen.
Your question about second order consequences is the right one but not only for the Eurozone.
The Fed pump on Friday will soon be seen as pissing in the wind. Corporate travel policies will not suddenly relax because of cheaper rates. And nor will people suddenly be minded to take a holiday to a foreign country with a possibly inadequate level of healthcare.
Unless the virus becomes well contained basically everywhere in the next 6-8 weeks, I fear we are looking at a more severe financial and economic crisis than 2008.
No need to introduce excessive measures unless actually needed
Clutching his copy of Ayn Rand to his side.
It’s not particularly likely for now, but it’s certainly possible.
But I think there's now enough evidence of its potentially devastating international harmful effects that our government should be stepping up a gear and taking more decisive actions to try to contain the spread of the virus and to ensure the public are better informed of the situation. I'm amazed how unfazed most people are at the moment
If it all blows over - great. If not, people will ask why the government didn't do more and explain more when it could.
What more do you want? Seriously?
We should never fall into the trap of "something must be done, this is something, therefore this must be done". The government and NHS have a plan and are following it.
That means their chance of getting infected are going to be much higher than you or I.
Add in rallies, and the fact that Trump and Sanders both revel in speeches to thousands of the adoring, and they must have a meaningful risk of infection.
(Of course, no one would turn up to watch Biden stumble through a speech, so he's probably OK.)
I don't believe this though.
The NHS should do something. The NHS is doing it.
That is the boring truth. There is a plan, it is being implemented, so far it is working. Boring truth backed up by facts rather than hysterics.
How Coronavirus could impact house prices
Daily Mail:
Was the driver of Princess Di’s car suffering from Coronavirus?
The Guardian:
Will the tories use the Coronavirus outbreak as an excuse to sell off the nhs to Trump?
The Independent:
Coronavirus no platformed for xenophobic actions at mostly killing Chinese people. Inside report, how ethnic minorities are suffering the dual fear of white supremacy and a nasty bout of the flu.
Naked Coronavirus on Page 3
Daily Mirror
Coronavirus all the Tories fault
For instance, The Cheltenham NH festival is due to start in 10 days time. My favourite sporting event of the year. Tens of thousands of people will be travelling to it, including some from most parts of the world. They will be in very close proximity to each other for about 8 hours. Should it go ahead? Hard decisions need to be made - and soon.
This probably helps event organizers, because you've got something planned for two weeks from now and the virus spreads a little bit as expected, you can't really be confident people are going to show up, so it's better if you have an excuse to cancel early and in an orderly way. Likewise a lot of people would probably like to work from home but don't want to appear to be panicking, so if you just have a government direction to try to do that, it's a lot easier for them to justify it.
This is a bit of a weird case because the risk to any given individual is currently so miniscule that you should basically ignore it. However, since the very few unlucky people who hit the coronovirus jackpot then spread it to other people, currently at a rate of more than 1, reducing that individual teensy risk to an exceedingly teensy risk has a big benefit across the whole population. So if you can just give people an excuse to listen to their inner voice of irrational panic, and direct that into measures that actually help reduce their (miniscule) risk like hand-washing and working from home, you can solve the collective action problem very cheaply.
https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1233550608117981184?s=20
Does the Coronavirus give women bigger tits
Love Island big tit star found on moon spreading virus.
They are also doing stupid shit still like making my immuno compromised mother sit in a packed GP waiting room with infectious disease patients to get a regular injection. It’s easy. Separate clinics into a morning (regular) and afternoon (infectious) shift, disinfect every night.
Roll out home delivery of NHS prescription medication on mass so that vulnerable people need go nowhere a pharmacy.
Etc..
While Biden goes into the race behind Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) in the delegate count, observers say it’s not an insurmountable lead at this time.
“A Biden win turns the tide,” said Basil Smikle, who served as the executive director of the New York state Democratic Party.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/485198-biden-win-in-south-carolina-could-turn-tide-say-strategists
"They have barely started on the public awareness strategy necessary to achieve the same result as in Singapore. And they start a generation behind Asia, where wearing of face masks while sick is considered basic manners.
They are also doing stupid shit still like making my immuno compromised mother sit in a packed GP waiting room with infectious disease patients to get a regular injection. It’s easy. Separate clinics into a morning (regular) and afternoon (infectious) shift, disinfect every night.
Roll out home delivery of NHS prescription medication on mass so that vulnerable people need go nowhere a pharmacy.
Etc.."
That all sounds very sensible. We should be doing and explaining these things now.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/02/26/india/india-delhi-violence-ashok-nagar-intl/index.html?__twitter_impression=true
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1233496574870900737?s=20
It is a low probability outcome which a possible but not plausibly likely