Rejoiners is going to be the next incarnation of the Remain, 2nd Referendum, People Votes. I notice that Bad Al the other day was still claiming that Remain definitely would have won another vote and that the trend was all with the Remain side and that is why Boris had a GE.
There's a few points she tries to slip into her well worn 'look concerned, raise your octave a bit, look super impassioned on the verge of crying' act. But the interviewer doesnt fall for any of it as it doesnt work on women as a rule unless they want it to work on them.
A man instinctively pulls back if he thinks a woman is about to get emotional which makes her a real problem for Boris if she wins, but she'll get marmalised when they realise to always put no nonsense women up against her. Shame someone like the Soubs took the pet. She would have repeatedly brought her down a peg.
Nadine Dorries or Esther McVey should more than do the job....
Just getting my head around the concept of Nadine being a stranger to nonsense.
It may be an unpopular view but, having been a Lib Dem bear since 2010, I believe the Lib Dems have some grounds for optimism after the last election. They went backwards in seat count but they have put themselves into contention in a decent number of seats for the next election. They have long term prospects that could be worked with, especially at such point as the Conservatives fall from grace. 2015 was the disaster from which they are only now starting to recover a little.
Why not merge with Centrist Labour, and leave the Corbynites as the small third party (the Lib Dems up til now)?
Change UK/TIG set up at the wrong time, and looked like anti democrats. Now would be a perfect time to do what they tried last term.
If Starmer wins, they'll be no desire in any of the PLP for a split. Wrong-Dailey could still win of course, but she certainly seems to have a steep hill to climb.
Bananas are the one commodity that's so tricky to transport that the producers have to own the ships they ship them in, rather than chartering like everyone else. Why didn't he say potatoes?
and the world's 5th biggest exporter of bananas is ..... Belgium.
It may be an unpopular view but, having been a Lib Dem bear since 2010, I believe the Lib Dems have some grounds for optimism after the last election. They went backwards in seat count but they have put themselves into contention in a decent number of seats for the next election. They have long term prospects that could be worked with, especially at such point as the Conservatives fall from grace. 2015 was the disaster from which they are only now starting to recover a little.
Why not merge with Centrist Labour, and leave the Corbynites as the small third party (the Lib Dems up til now)?
Change UK/TIG set up at the wrong time, and looked like anti democrats. Now would be a perfect time to do what they tried last term.
If Starmer wins, they'll be no desire in any of the PLP for a split. Wrong-Dailey could still win of course, but she certainly seems to have a steep hill to climb.
Labour wouldn't necesarily have to split. Just get the Lib Dems in to drown out the Corbynites and you have a centre left alliance to beat the common enemy . Just an idle thought
Rejoiners is going to be the next incarnation of the Remain, 2nd Referendum, People Votes. I notice that Bad Al the other day was still claiming that Remain definitely would have won another vote and that the trend was all with the Remain side and that is why Boris had a GE.
There's a few points she tries to slip into her well worn 'look concerned, raise your octave a bit, look super impassioned on the verge of crying' act. But the interviewer doesnt fall for any of it as it doesnt work on women as a rule unless they want it to work on them.
A man instinctively pulls back if he thinks a woman is about to get emotional which makes her a real problem for Boris if she wins, but she'll get marmalised when they realise to always put no nonsense women up against her. Shame someone like the Soubs took the pet. She would have repeatedly brought her down a peg.
Nadine Dorries or Esther McVey should more than do the job....
I am not a great fan, but she was most definitely not "skewered". What total bollox!
It may be an unpopular view but, having been a Lib Dem bear since 2010, I believe the Lib Dems have some grounds for optimism after the last election. They went backwards in seat count but they have put themselves into contention in a decent number of seats for the next election. They have long term prospects that could be worked with, especially at such point as the Conservatives fall from grace. 2015 was the disaster from which they are only now starting to recover a little.
Why not merge with Centrist Labour, and leave the Corbynites as the small third party (the Lib Dems up til now)?
Change UK/TIG set up at the wrong time, and looked like anti democrats. Now would be a perfect time to do what they tried last term.
If Starmer wins, they'll be no desire in any of the PLP for a split. Wrong-Dailey could still win of course, but she certainly seems to have a steep hill to climb.
Labour wouldn't necesarily have to split. Just get the Lib Dems in to drown out the Corbynites and you have a centre left alliance to beat the common enemy . Just an idle thought
You have to wait for the addict to hit bottom and ask for help before interventions are successful...
'Corbyn was a 10/10 politician' says Rebecca Long Bailey. She claims it was all the mejias fault, an honest man to the core and a visionary.
I know it doesn’t really need repeating, but Labour are screwed if she takes the helm.
It will represent a continuation of the left`s piracy of the party. But IMO they are screwed anyway. They have relied forever on votes from people who are more conservative than they are collectivist. Now these folk have taken a big gulp and ticked Conservative on the ballot. They will need a much smaller gulp to do it again.
Especially so if, as expected, there’s a whole raft of infrastructure spending and business incentives coming to those Northern towns in the next couple of years.
I think you are overcomplicating it. Those "conservative" old labour voters looked at Corbyn and hated everything about him. 2019 GE was pro-Johnson by default. It was the anti-Corbyn election. Everything depends on whom they replace Mr. Thicky with. The one thing you can say about Johnson is that he is very good at defeating a very poor opponent.
Oh no, I think he’s real. There is going to be huge infrastructure investment and business incentives (like ‘free zones’ with no business rates and discounted employer NI) in those geographical areas that governments of all colours have ignored for decades.
The PM and his close advisors are well aware that the referendum campaign and the last election campaign managed to convent millions of people to voting with Johnson, his tasks now are to keep those voters onside and attract the next lot of Con voters from neighbouring towns.
Bananas are the one commodity that's so tricky to transport that the producers have to own the ships they ship them in, rather than chartering like everyone else. Why didn't he say potatoes?
and the world's 5th biggest exporter of bananas is ..... Belgium.
Go and look at what number they are on the importers list.
Rejoiners is going to be the next incarnation of the Remain, 2nd Referendum, People Votes. I notice that Bad Al the other day was still claiming that Remain definitely would have won another vote and that the trend was all with the Remain side and that is why Boris had a GE.
There's a few points she tries to slip into her well worn 'look concerned, raise your octave a bit, look super impassioned on the verge of crying' act. But the interviewer doesnt fall for any of it as it doesnt work on women as a rule unless they want it to work on them.
A man instinctively pulls back if he thinks a woman is about to get emotional which makes her a real problem for Boris if she wins, but she'll get marmalised when they realise to always put no nonsense women up against her. Shame someone like the Soubs took the pet. She would have repeatedly brought her down a peg.
Nadine Dorries or Esther McVey should more than do the job....
I am not a great fan, but she was most definitely not "skewered". What total bollox!
Yes, just watched it. All I took from it was that the woman in purple is infinitely vacuous and Piers Morgan is more of a bloated, supercilious twit than when I last looked.
'Corbyn was a 10/10 politician' says Rebecca Long Bailey. She claims it was all the mejias fault, an honest man to the core and a visionary.
I know it doesn’t really need repeating, but Labour are screwed if she takes the helm.
It will represent a continuation of the left`s piracy of the party. But IMO they are screwed anyway. They have relied forever on votes from people who are more conservative than they are collectivist. Now these folk have taken a big gulp and ticked Conservative on the ballot. They will need a much smaller gulp to do it again.
Especially so if, as expected, there’s a whole raft of infrastructure spending and business incentives coming to those Northern towns in the next couple of years.
I think you are overcomplicating it. Those "conservative" old labour voters looked at Corbyn and hated everything about him. 2019 GE was pro-Johnson by default. It was the anti-Corbyn election. Everything depends on whom they replace Mr. Thicky with. The one thing you can say about Johnson is that he is very good at defeating a very poor opponent.
Oh no, I think he’s real. There is going to be huge infrastructure investment and business incentives (like ‘free zones’ with no business rates and discounted employer NI) in those geographical areas that governments of all colours have ignored for decades.
The PM and his close advisors are well aware that the referendum campaign and the last election campaign managed to convent millions of people to voting with Johnson, his tasks now are to keep those voters onside and attract the next lot of Con voters from neighbouring towns.
They will start will something that can be done quickly and noticed by the voters and be relatively cheap. My bet is on Town Centre smartening up. Also provides nice photo op for when Boris visits the recently won red wall seats.
Cos everybody has 3 weeks for one leg of a trip...
What is your problem with this? It looked like quite an enjoyable holiday. Should I now expect criticism for having some solar panels on my roof? "Not everyone can afford a few thousand quid." You're not being asked to travel by cargo ship, relax!
Bananas are the one commodity that's so tricky to transport that the producers have to own the ships they ship them in, rather than chartering like everyone else. Why didn't he say potatoes?
and the world's 5th biggest exporter of bananas is ..... Belgium.
Go and look at what number they are on the importers list.
I know. I'm surprised Russia is such a big importer. looks like second only to USA on a net basis.
Cos everybody has 3 weeks for one leg of a trip...
What is your problem with this? It looked like quite an enjoyable holiday. Should I now expect criticism for having some solar panels on my roof? "Not everyone can afford a few thousand quid." You're not being asked to travel by cargo ship, relax!
Because it isn't pitched as a fun alternative holiday, it is pitched as a realistic sustainable alternative to flying, which is just nonsense from the time it takes to the flexibility required i.e. the sailing dates of cargo vessels alter by several days at the drop of a hat.
'Corbyn was a 10/10 politician' says Rebecca Long Bailey. She claims it was all the mejias fault, an honest man to the core and a visionary.
I know it doesn’t really need repeating, but Labour are screwed if she takes the helm.
It will represent a continuation of the left`s piracy of the party. But IMO they are screwed anyway. They have relied forever on votes from people who are more conservative than they are collectivist. Now these folk have taken a big gulp and ticked Conservative on the ballot. They will need a much smaller gulp to do it again.
Especially so if, as expected, there’s a whole raft of infrastructure spending and business incentives coming to those Northern towns in the next couple of years.
I think you are overcomplicating it. Those "conservative" old labour voters looked at Corbyn and hated everything about him. 2019 GE was pro-Johnson by default. It was the anti-Corbyn election. Everything depends on whom they replace Mr. Thicky with. The one thing you can say about Johnson is that he is very good at defeating a very poor opponent.
Oh no, I think he’s real. There is going to be huge infrastructure investment and business incentives (like ‘free zones’ with no business rates and discounted employer NI) in those geographical areas that governments of all colours have ignored for decades.
The PM and his close advisors are well aware that the referendum campaign and the last election campaign managed to convent millions of people to voting with Johnson, his tasks now are to keep those voters onside and attract the next lot of Con voters from neighbouring towns.
They will start will something that can be done quickly and noticed by the voters and be relatively cheap. My bet is on Town Centre smartening up. Also provides nice photo op for when Boris visits the recently won red wall seats.
Oh, there will be a fair bit of that too, and Whitehall officialdom way underestimates the effect that even minor improvements have on somewhere that thinks it’s had nothing from government for decades.
The big investment is very real though, and there’s going to be huge financial incentives for companies to move from Wokingham to Rotherham.
IMO the big problems with high-skilled labour mobility are stamp duty and good schools - that’s where the second-order efforts need to be focussed.
'Corbyn was a 10/10 politician' says Rebecca Long Bailey. She claims it was all the mejias fault, an honest man to the core and a visionary.
I know it doesn’t really need repeating, but Labour are screwed if she takes the helm.
It will represent a continuation of the left`s piracy of the party. But IMO they are screwed anyway. They have relied forever on votes from people who are more conservative than they are collectivist. Now these folk have taken a big gulp and ticked Conservative on the ballot. They will need a much smaller gulp to do it again.
Especially so if, as expected, there’s a whole raft of infrastructure spending and business incentives coming to those Northern towns in the next couple of years.
I think you are overcomplicating it. Those "conservative" old labour voters looked at Corbyn and hated everything about him. 2019 GE was pro-Johnson by default. It was the anti-Corbyn election. Everything depends on whom they replace Mr. Thicky with. The one thing you can say about Johnson is that he is very good at defeating a very poor opponent.
Oh no, I think he’s real. There is going to be huge infrastructure investment and business incentives (like ‘free zones’ with no business rates and discounted employer NI) in those geographical areas that governments of all colours have ignored for decades.
The PM and his close advisors are well aware that the referendum campaign and the last election campaign managed to convent millions of people to voting with Johnson, his tasks now are to keep those voters onside and attract the next lot of Con voters from neighbouring towns.
They will start will something that can be done quickly and noticed by the voters and be relatively cheap. My bet is on Town Centre smartening up. Also provides nice photo op for when Boris visits the recently won red wall seats.
Oh, there will be a fair bit of that too, and Whitehall officialdom way underestimates the effect that even minor improvements have on somewhere that thinks it’s had nothing from government for decades.
The big investment is very real though, and there’s going to be huge financial incentives for companies to move from Wokingham to Rotherham.
IMO the big problems with high-skilled labour mobility are stamp duty and good schools - that’s where the second-order efforts need to be focussed.
Good schools will be an issue - stamp duty won't be as they swap their 3 bed terrace for 5 bedroom detached homes for less money.
'Corbyn was a 10/10 politician' says Rebecca Long Bailey. She claims it was all the mejias fault, an honest man to the core and a visionary.
I know it doesn’t really need repeating, but Labour are screwed if she takes the helm.
It will represent a continuation of the left`s piracy of the party. But IMO they are screwed anyway. They have relied forever on votes from people who are more conservative than they are collectivist. Now these folk have taken a big gulp and ticked Conservative on the ballot. They will need a much smaller gulp to do it again.
Especially so if, as expected, there’s a whole raft of infrastructure spending and business incentives coming to those Northern towns in the next couple of years.
I think you are overcomplicating it. Those "conservative" old labour voters looked at Corbyn and hated everything about him. 2019 GE was pro-Johnson by default. It was the anti-Corbyn election. Everything depends on whom they replace Mr. Thicky with. The one thing you can say about Johnson is that he is very good at defeating a very poor opponent.
Oh no, I think he’s real. There is going to be huge infrastructure investment and business incentives (like ‘free zones’ with no business rates and discounted employer NI) in those geographical areas that governments of all colours have ignored for decades.
The PM and his close advisors are well aware that the referendum campaign and the last election campaign managed to convent millions of people to voting with Johnson, his tasks now are to keep those voters onside and attract the next lot of Con voters from neighbouring towns.
They will start will something that can be done quickly and noticed by the voters and be relatively cheap. My bet is on Town Centre smartening up. Also provides nice photo op for when Boris visits the recently won red wall seats.
Excellent idea. Though Boris will have to get his photo op in quickly - these town centres will be soiled again with blood, vomit and spilled kebab meat by Sunday morning.
Cos everybody has 3 weeks for one leg of a trip...
What is your problem with this? It looked like quite an enjoyable holiday. Should I now expect criticism for having some solar panels on my roof? "Not everyone can afford a few thousand quid." You're not being asked to travel by cargo ship, relax!
Because it isn't pitched as a fun alternative holiday, it is pitched as a realistic sustainable alternative to flying, which is just nonsense from the time it takes to the flexibility required i.e. the sailing dates of cargo vessels alter by several days at the drop of a hat.
A few years ago a couple of my cousins returned from a visit to family in New Zealand by cargo ship. Said it was very enjoyable. Took them several weeks although they did have a few stopovers. But they were retired, so time wasn't of the essence.
Oh, there will be a fair bit of that too, and Whitehall officialdom way underestimates the effect that even minor improvements have on somewhere that thinks it’s had nothing from government for decades.
The big investment is very real though, and there’s going to be huge financial incentives for companies to move from Wokingham to Rotherham.
IMO the big problems with high-skilled labour mobility are stamp duty and good schools - that’s where the second-order efforts need to be focussed.
Good schools will be an issue - stamp duty won't be as they swap their 3 bed terrace for 5 bedroom detached homes for less money.
Good to know that if you buy a cheaper house you are exempt from Stamp. Who knew!
Cos everybody has 3 weeks for one leg of a trip...
What is your problem with this? It looked like quite an enjoyable holiday. Should I now expect criticism for having some solar panels on my roof? "Not everyone can afford a few thousand quid." You're not being asked to travel by cargo ship, relax!
Because it isn't pitched as a fun alternative holiday, it is pitched as a realistic sustainable alternative to flying, which is just nonsense from the time it takes to the flexibility required i.e. the sailing dates of cargo vessels alter by several days at the drop of a hat.
A few years ago a couple of my cousins returned from a visit to family in New Zealand by cargo ship. Said it was very enjoyable. Took them several weeks although they did have a few stopovers. But they were retired, so time wasn't of the essence.
I imagine it would be lovely on the right route in the right weather. They were reporting an average 15m(!) wave in the North Atlantic yesterday, between Iceland and Greenland.
Oh, there will be a fair bit of that too, and Whitehall officialdom way underestimates the effect that even minor improvements have on somewhere that thinks it’s had nothing from government for decades.
The big investment is very real though, and there’s going to be huge financial incentives for companies to move from Wokingham to Rotherham.
IMO the big problems with high-skilled labour mobility are stamp duty and good schools - that’s where the second-order efforts need to be focussed.
Good schools will be an issue - stamp duty won't be as they swap their 3 bed terrace for 5 bedroom detached homes for less money.
Good to know that if you buy a cheaper house you are exempt from Stamp. Who knew!
Nope but you won't care about spending £10,000 on stamp duty when the house is twice the size and your mortgage is smaller.
Cos everybody has 3 weeks for one leg of a trip...
What is your problem with this? It looked like quite an enjoyable holiday. Should I now expect criticism for having some solar panels on my roof? "Not everyone can afford a few thousand quid." You're not being asked to travel by cargo ship, relax!
Because it isn't pitched as a fun alternative holiday, it is pitched as a realistic sustainable alternative to flying, which is just nonsense from the time it takes to the flexibility required i.e. the sailing dates of cargo vessels alter by several days at the drop of a hat.
A few years ago a couple of my cousins returned from a visit to family in New Zealand by cargo ship. Said it was very enjoyable. Took them several weeks although they did have a few stopovers. But they were retired, so time wasn't of the essence.
I imagine it would be lovely on the right route in the right weather. They were reporting an average 15m(!) wave in the North Atlantic yesterday, between Iceland and Greenland.
I shouldn't think that's unusual, is it. Chap I knew many years ago had served on the Russian convoys. Said combination of hostilities and weather was totally horrendous (well he didn't put it quite like that!)!
Especially so if, as expected, there’s a whole raft of infrastructure spending and business incentives coming to those Northern towns in the next couple of years.
I think you are overcomplicating it. Those "conservative" old labour voters looked at Corbyn and hated everything about him. 2019 GE was pro-Johnson by default. It was the anti-Corbyn election. Everything depends on whom they replace Mr. Thicky with. The one thing you can say about Johnson is that he is very good at defeating a very poor opponent.
Oh no, I think he’s real. There is going to be huge infrastructure investment and business incentives (like ‘free zones’ with no business rates and discounted employer NI) in those geographical areas that governments of all colours have ignored for decades.
The PM and his close advisors are well aware that the referendum campaign and the last election campaign managed to convent millions of people to voting with Johnson, his tasks now are to keep those voters onside and attract the next lot of Con voters from neighbouring towns.
They will start will something that can be done quickly and noticed by the voters and be relatively cheap. My bet is on Town Centre smartening up. Also provides nice photo op for when Boris visits the recently won red wall seats.
Oh, there will be a fair bit of that too, and Whitehall officialdom way underestimates the effect that even minor improvements have on somewhere that thinks it’s had nothing from government for decades.
The big investment is very real though, and there’s going to be huge financial incentives for companies to move from Wokingham to Rotherham.
IMO the big problems with high-skilled labour mobility are stamp duty and good schools - that’s where the second-order efforts need to be focussed.
Good schools will be an issue - stamp duty won't be as they swap their 3 bed terrace for 5 bedroom detached homes for less money.
Even if you move to a cheaper area, a five-figure cheque that you’re transferring from your own personal housing equity to the general Treasury coffers is still a consideration for those being asked to move. There also the fear of missing out - someone who located themselves in the north, rather than the south, a couple of decades ago, now can’t afford to move to the south as house price inflation has been much higher in the meantime.
'Corbyn was a 10/10 politician' says Rebecca Long Bailey. She claims it was all the mejias fault, an honest man to the core and a visionary.
I know it doesn’t really need repeating, but Labour are screwed if she takes the helm.
It will represent a continuation of the left`s piracy of the party. But IMO they are screwed anyway. They have relied forever on votes from people who are more conservative than they are collectivist. Now these folk have taken a big gulp and ticked Conservative on the ballot. They will need a much smaller gulp to do it again.
Especially so if, as expected, there’s a whole raft of infrastructure spending and business incentives coming to those Northern towns in the next couple of years.
I think you are overcomplicating it. Those "conservative" old labour voters looked at Corbyn and hated everything about him. 2019 GE was pro-Johnson by default. It was the anti-Corbyn election. Everything depends on whom they replace Mr. Thicky with. The one thing you can say about Johnson is that he is very good at defeating a very poor opponent.
Oh no, I think he’s real. There is going to be huge infrastructure investment and business incentives (like ‘free zones’ with no business rates and discounted employer NI) in those geographical areas that governments of all colours have ignored for decades.
The PM and his close advisors are well aware that the referendum campaign and the last election campaign managed to convent millions of people to voting with Johnson, his tasks now are to keep those voters onside and attract the next lot of Con voters from neighbouring towns.
They will start will something that can be done quickly and noticed by the voters and be relatively cheap. My bet is on Town Centre smartening up. Also provides nice photo op for when Boris visits the recently won red wall seats.
Excellent idea. Though Boris will have to get his photo op in quickly - these town centres will be soiled again with blood, vomit and spilled kebab meat by Sunday morning.
The fact he's backing Burgon over Rayner - who nobody could accuse of not being left wing - that all for the talk of him being pragmatic and willing to compromise, he's just as factional as the rest of Team Corbyn.
So The Guardian loses the plot even more than usual today, trying to equivocate the recipients of one of the most generous welfare systems in the world with terrorists.
It’s not quite the woman wanking the dolphin, but it’s pretty close to Peak Guardian.
So The Guardian loses the plot even more than usual today, trying to equivocate the recipients of one of the most generous welfare systems in the world with terrorists.
It’s not quite the woman wanking the dolphin, but it’s pretty close to Peak Guardian.
They should just go total Novara Media and declare that the only difference between the likes of General Dannatt and General Soleimani, is that Dannatt was shit at his job.
Especially so if, as expected, there’s a whole raft of infrastructure spending and business incentives coming to those Northern towns in the next couple of years.
I think you are overcomplicating it. Those "conservative" old labour voters looked at Corbyn and hated everything about him. 2019 GE was pro-Johnson by default. It was the anti-Corbyn election. Everything depends on whom they replace Mr. Thicky with. The one thing you can say about Johnson is that he is very good at defeating a very poor opponent.
Oh no, I think he’s real. There is going to be huge infrastructure investment and business incentives (like ‘free zones’ with no business rates and discounted employer NI) in those geographical areas that governments of all colours have ignored for decades.
The PM and his close advisors are well aware that the referendum campaign and the last election campaign managed to convent millions of people to voting with Johnson, his tasks now are to keep those voters onside and attract the next lot of Con voters from neighbouring towns.
They will start will something that can be done quickly and noticed by the voters and be relatively cheap. My bet is on Town Centre smartening up. Also provides nice photo op for when Boris visits the recently won red wall seats.
Oh, there will be a fair bit of that too, and Whitehall officialdom way underestimates the effect that even minor improvements have on somewhere that thinks it’s had nothing from government for decades.
The big investment is very real though, and there’s going to be huge financial incentives for companies to move from Wokingham to Rotherham.
IMO the big problems with high-skilled labour mobility are stamp duty and good schools - that’s where the second-order efforts need to be focussed.
Good schools will be an issue - stamp duty won't be as they swap their 3 bed terrace for 5 bedroom detached homes for less money.
Even if you move to a cheaper area, a five-figure cheque that you’re transferring from your own personal housing equity to the general Treasury coffers is still a consideration for those being asked to move. There also the fear of missing out - someone who located themselves in the north, rather than the south, a couple of decades ago, now can’t afford to move to the south as house price inflation has been much higher in the meantime.
So The Guardian loses the plot even more than usual today, trying to equivocate the recipients of one of the most generous welfare systems in the world with terrorists.
It’s not quite the woman wanking the dolphin, but it’s pretty close to Peak Guardian.
and the death claims about IDS are based around an assumption in a report that average life expectancy increases slowed down greater than should have so some people lived a few months less than what they would have been projected to with rising age.
Not that they actually lived shorter lives, but that there wasnt the additional time that was modelled.
And for that we are the equivalent of a war general of a despotic theocracy that publicly hangs people for being gay.
'Corbyn was a 10/10 politician' says Rebecca Long Bailey. She claims it was all the mejias fault, an honest man to the core and a visionary.
I know it doesn’t really need repeating, but Labour are screwed if she takes the helm.
It will represent a continuation of the left`s piracy of the party. But IMO they are screwed anyway. They have relied forever on votes from people who are more conservative than they are collectivist. Now these folk have taken a big gulp and ticked Conservative on the ballot. They will need a much smaller gulp to do it again.
Especially so if, as expected, there’s a whole raft of infrastructure spending and business incentives coming to those Northern towns in the next couple of years.
I think you are overcomplicating it. Those "conservative" old labour voters looked at Corbyn and hated everything about him. 2019 GE was pro-Johnson by default. It was the anti-Corbyn election. Everything depends on whom they replace Mr. Thicky with. The one thing you can say about Johnson is that he is very good at defeating a very poor opponent.
Oh no, I think he’s real. There is going to be huge infrastructure investment and business incentives (like ‘free zones’ with no business rates and discounted employer NI) in those geographical areas that governments of all colours have ignored for decades.
The PM and his close advisors are well aware that the referendum campaign and the last election campaign managed to convent millions of people to voting with Johnson, his tasks now are to keep those voters onside and attract the next lot of Con voters from neighbouring towns.
They will start will something that can be done quickly and noticed by the voters and be relatively cheap. My bet is on Town Centre smartening up. Also provides nice photo op for when Boris visits the recently won red wall seats.
Excellent idea. Though Boris will have to get his photo op in quickly - these town centres will be soiled again with blood, vomit and spilled kebab meat by Sunday morning.
So The Guardian loses the plot even more than usual today, trying to equivocate the recipients of one of the most generous welfare systems in the world with terrorists.
It’s not quite the woman wanking the dolphin, but it’s pretty close to Peak Guardian.
They should just go total Novara Media and declare that the only difference between the likes of General Dannatt and General Soleimani, is that Dannatt was shit at his job.
She should probably have kept her gob under a tighter rein. Difficult if your usp is gobby cow with not always informed opinions on absolutely everything though.
Starmer at least has a grasp on international and constitutional law.
Assuming you're praying for RLB to win the leadership? If you the want candidate who is most likely to cause/not prevent Scottish independence out of the available options, she's the one you want.
After all the helpful comments from the usual suspects earlier, perhaps the view of someone who actually has a vote in the LD leadership election may be of interest (or it may not).
The Party's problems don't really start or end with the leader unlike Labour's. The core problem is the message not the messenger and even in his New Year message Sir Ed was still talking about "stopping Brexit".
The Party has to grow up and realise the battle is lost - whether we like it or not, the 2016 Referendum result, for all its imperfections, was still a reasonably free and fair vote (and certainly more so than in many other countries). The Party should have taken it on the chin then and there and accepted the will of the people was to leave the EU.
The method and manner of departure was of course not specified and there would be many who would argue for a close and positive relationship post-membership especially in terms of trade but also politically. By abdicating the field to the "hard" Brexiteers, the LDs have made a more distant, antagonistic and economically difficult relationship more likely.
That's the past - I would now support a candidate willing to say the unsayable in terms of our EU membership. Yes, we can argue to rejoin one day once we have left (perfectly credible once we know the terms on which the UK could rejoin) but unless it unravels at once (very unlikely) it only seems fair to give life outside the EU a fair crack of the whip.
Johnson's centralising social democratic tendencies do provide plenty of ground for effective opposition - there will be no problem which can't be solved by throwing money at it and indeed I see Javid and I hear Brown and even David Owen in terms of the belief that Government can and must do anything and everything.
For those of us interested in a proper devolution of power and responsibility down to existing local authorities combined with sound financial management going forward, there are angles of attack aplenty which can be built on.
I've no issue with Layla Moran's sexuality in any form - I don't really know where she stands on other issues and while Daisy Cooper's win in St Albans was one of the highlights of an otherwise frustrating evening last month, I struggle with the logic of propelling her to the top position so quickly.
In truth, no one will be much interested in the LDs for the foreseeable future - the task is to convert the vote increases in key areas into local campaigning which will bear fruit when the Johnson Government hits its mid-term trough. The 2021 County elections will be fought on the very strong Conservative gains in 2017 and there will surely be seats to take then.
Schools in Dubai are doing a much better job of dealing with this than schools in Birmingham. The Birmingham story is being shared and laughed at over here.
After all the helpful comments from the usual suspects earlier, perhaps the view of someone who actually has a vote in the LD leadership election may be of interest (or it may not).
The Party's problems don't really start or end with the leader unlike Labour's. The core problem is the message not the messenger and even in his New Year message Sir Ed was still talking about "stopping Brexit".
The Party has to grow up and realise the battle is lost - whether we like it or not, the 2016 Referendum result, for all its imperfections, was still a reasonably free and fair vote (and certainly more so than in many other countries). The Party should have taken it on the chin then and there and accepted the will of the people was to leave the EU.
The method and manner of departure was of course not specified and there would be many who would argue for a close and positive relationship post-membership especially in terms of trade but also politically. By abdicating the field to the "hard" Brexiteers, the LDs have made a more distant, antagonistic and economically difficult relationship more likely.
That's the past - I would now support a candidate willing to say the unsayable in terms of our EU membership. Yes, we can argue to rejoin one day once we have left (perfectly credible once we know the terms on which the UK could rejoin) but unless it unravels at once (very unlikely) it only seems fair to give life outside the EU a fair crack of the whip.
Johnson's centralising social democratic tendencies do provide plenty of ground for effective opposition - there will be no problem which can't be solved by throwing money at it and indeed I see Javid and I hear Brown and even David Owen in terms of the belief that Government can and must do anything and everything.
For those of us interested in a proper devolution of power and responsibility down to existing local authorities combined with sound financial management going forward, there are angles of attack aplenty which can be built on.
I've no issue with Layla Moran's sexuality in any form - I don't really know where she stands on other issues and while Daisy Cooper's win in St Albans was one of the highlights of an otherwise frustrating evening last month, I struggle with the logic of propelling her to the top position so quickly.
In truth, no one will be much interested in the LDs for the foreseeable future - the task is to convert the vote increases in key areas into local campaigning which will bear fruit when the Johnson Government hits its mid-term trough. The 2021 County elections will be fought on the very strong Conservative gains in 2017 and there will surely be seats to take then.
So The Guardian loses the plot even more than usual today, trying to equivocate the recipients of one of the most generous welfare systems in the world with terrorists.
It’s not quite the woman wanking the dolphin, but it’s pretty close to Peak Guardian.
Since IDS was an even more enthusiastic proponent of intervention in Iraq than Blair and softened up the Tory party for its supine acquiescence with Gulf War II, I think it can safely be said that he's a thoroughly nasty man whose actions had caused unnecessary deaths.
Was there ever any other answer she could have given, having tried not to answer it once?
If she wanted to show the ruthlessness that every leader needs to have she ought to have answered thus:-
“Political leaders are judged not by how nice they are - and Corbyn was always a very kind man in my experience - but by their ability to win power and enact the policies voters have voted for. After 2 defeats under his leadership , as he himself has recognised, it is time to move on - and that is why I am standing in order to win a victory for Labour policies for the 20’s and 30’s. Blah, blah ....”
Cos everybody has 3 weeks for one leg of a trip...
What is your problem with this? It looked like quite an enjoyable holiday. Should I now expect criticism for having some solar panels on my roof? "Not everyone can afford a few thousand quid." You're not being asked to travel by cargo ship, relax!
The problem, as FU explained,is that taking three weeks off to undertake such a trip is beyond the reach of (non-self-employed) people with jobs and is therefore not a viable alternative.
Especially so if, as expected, there’s a whole raft of infrastructure spending and business incentives coming to those Northern towns in the next couple of years.
I think you are overcomplicating it. Those "conservative" old labour voters looked at Corbyn and hated everything about him. 2019 GE was pro-Johnson by default. It was the anti-Corbyn election. Everything depends on whom they replace Mr. Thicky with. The one thing you can say about Johnson is that he is very good at defeating a very poor opponent.
Oh no, I think he’s real. There is going to be huge infrastructure investment and business incentives (like ‘free zones’ with no business rates and discounted employer NI) in those geographical areas that governments of all colours have ignored for decades.
The PM and his close advisors are well aware that the referendum campaign and the last election campaign managed to convent millions of people to voting with Johnson, his tasks now are to keep those voters onside and attract the next lot of Con voters from neighbouring towns.
They will start will something that can be done quickly and noticed by the voters and be relatively cheap. My bet is on Town Centre smartening up. Also provides nice photo op for when Boris visits the recently won red wall seats.
Oh, there will be a fair bit of that too, and Whitehall officialdom way underestimates the effect that even minor improvements have on somewhere that thinks it’s had nothing from government for decades.
The big investment is very real though, and there’s going to be huge financial incentives for companies to move from Wokingham to Rotherham.
IMO the big problems with high-skilled labour mobility are stamp duty and good schools - that’s where the second-order efforts need to be focussed.
Good schools will be an issue - stamp duty won't be as they swap their 3 bed terrace for 5 bedroom detached homes for less money.
Even if you move to a cheaper area, a five-figure cheque that you’re transferring from your own personal housing equity to the general Treasury coffers is still a consideration for those being asked to move. There also the fear of missing out - someone who located themselves in the north, rather than the south, a couple of decades ago, now can’t afford to move to the south as house price inflation has been much higher in the meantime.
[snip] and while Daisy Cooper's win in St Albans was one of the highlights of an otherwise frustrating evening last month, I struggle with the logic of propelling her to the top position so quickly.
In truth, no one will be much interested in the LDs for the foreseeable future - the task is to convert the vote increases in key areas into local campaigning which will bear fruit when the Johnson Government hits its mid-term trough. The 2021 County elections will be fought on the very strong Conservative gains in 2017 and there will surely be seats to take then.
The reason I said look closely at Daisy is this:
"the task is to convert the vote increases in key areas into local campaigning which will bear fruit when the Johnson Government hits its mid-term trough"
She has shown this is her strength. People in St. Albans were very happy to still have her posters up a week after the election. She can clearly enthuse locally. Maybe she can do it nationally? Take a closer look.
After all the helpful comments from the usual suspects earlier, perhaps the view of someone who actually has a vote in the LD leadership election may be of interest (or it may not).
The Party's problems don't really start or end with the leader unlike Labour's. The core problem is the message not the messenger and even in his New Year message Sir Ed was still talking about "stopping Brexit".
The Party has to grow up and realise the battle is lost - whether we like it or not, the 2016 Referendum result, for all its imperfections, was still a reasonably free and fair vote (and certainly more so than in many other countries). The Party should have taken it on the chin then and there and accepted the will of the people was to leave the EU.
The method and manner of departure was of course not specified and there would be many who would argue for a close and positive relationship post-membership especially in terms of trade but also politically. By abdicating the field to the "hard" Brexiteers, the LDs have made a more distant, antagonistic and economically difficult relationship more likely.
That's the past - I would now support a candidate willing to say the unsayable in terms of our EU membership. Yes, we can argue to rejoin one day once we have left (perfectly credible once we know the terms on which the UK could rejoin) but unless it unravels at once (very unlikely) it only seems fair to give life outside the EU a fair crack of the whip.
Johnson's centralising social democratic tendencies do provide plenty of ground for effective opposition - there will be no problem which can't be solved by throwing money at it and indeed I see Javid and I hear Brown and even David Owen in terms of the belief that Government can and must do anything and everything.
For those of us interested in a proper devolution of power and responsibility down to existing local authorities combined with sound financial management going forward, there are angles of attack aplenty which can be built on.
I've no issue with Layla Moran's sexuality in any form - I don't really know where she stands on other issues and while Daisy Cooper's win in St Albans was one of the highlights of an otherwise frustrating evening last month, I struggle with the logic of propelling her to the top position so quickly.
In truth, no one will be much interested in the LDs for the foreseeable future - the task is to convert the vote increases in key areas into local campaigning which will bear fruit when the Johnson Government hits its mid-term trough. The 2021 County elections will be fought on the very strong Conservative gains in 2017 and there will surely be seats to take then.
After all the helpful comments from the usual suspects earlier, perhaps the view of someone who actually has a vote in the LD leadership election may be of interest (or it may not).
The Party's problems don't really start or end with the leader unlike Labour's. The core problem is the message not the messenger and even in his New Year message Sir Ed was still talking about "stopping Brexit".
The Party has to grow up and realise the battle is lost - whether we like it or not, the 2016 Referendum result, for all its imperfections, was still a reasonably free and fair vote (and certainly more so than in many other countries). The Party should have taken it on the chin then and there and accepted the will of the people was to leave the EU.
The method and manner of departure was of course not specified and there would be many who would argue for a close and positive relationship post-membership especially in terms of trade but also politically. By abdicating the field to the "hard" Brexiteers, the LDs have made a more distant, antagonistic and economically difficult relationship more likely.
That's the past - I would now support a candidate willing to say the unsayable in terms of our EU membership. Yes, we can argue to rejoin one day once we have left (perfectly credible once we know the terms on which the UK could rejoin) but unless it unravels at once (very unlikely) it only seems fair to give life outside the EU a fair crack of the whip.
Johnson's centralising social democratic tendencies do provide plenty of ground for effective opposition - there will be no problem which can't be solved by throwing money at it and indeed I see Javid and I hear Brown and even David Owen in terms of the belief that Government can and must do anything and everything.
For those of us interested in a proper devolution of power and responsibility down to existing local authorities combined with sound financial management going forward, there are angles of attack aplenty which can be built on.
I've no issue with Layla Moran's sexuality in any form - I don't really know where she stands on other issues and while Daisy Cooper's win in St Albans was one of the highlights of an otherwise frustrating evening last month, I struggle with the logic of propelling her to the top position so quickly.
In truth, no one will be much interested in the LDs for the foreseeable future - the task is to convert the vote increases in key areas into local campaigning which will bear fruit when the Johnson Government hits its mid-term trough. The 2021 County elections will be fought on the very strong Conservative gains in 2017 and there will surely be seats to take then.
So The Guardian loses the plot even more than usual today, trying to equivocate the recipients of one of the most generous welfare systems in the world with terrorists.
It’s not quite the woman wanking the dolphin, but it’s pretty close to Peak Guardian.
Since IDS was an even more enthusiastic proponent of intervention in Iraq than Blair and softened up the Tory party for its supine acquiescence with Gulf War II, I think it can safely be said that he's a thoroughly nasty man whose actions had caused unnecessary deaths.
Or alternatively he's a thoroughly decent man whose view at the time of the risks of action versus no action was different from your hindsight.
Really, that was an exceptionally unpleasant post of yours.
As for Labour, plenty of comment on the individual contenders but a key point to remember is most political parties are like super-tankers - they don't turn quickly or easily. Those expecting denunciation of Corbyn and all he stood for a month after a defeat are being foolish and don't understand how politics works.
Kinnock had to wait two years before denouncing Militant and it's going to be baby steps for the next Labour leader seeking to re-position the party as the objective is not to trigger a schism but to take the membership on a journey and the first step is going to be the hardest.
I don't even know if Keir Starmer, Lisa Nandy or any of the others has a clear destination apart from getting back into Government. This comes in two stages - stage one is being an effective Opposition which may not sound easy with just 203 MPs but it's about amendments to legislation which can cause division in Tory ranks. The second stage is more obvious and more difficult - Labour remains, for all that happened last month, the only realistic alternative Government but translating the arithmetic into a concept which disillusioned Conservatives will support is the big challenge.
Tim Montgonerie, a No 10 aide, has said that the UK government should form a "special relationship" with Hungary. Viktor Orban is a brutish, undemocratic anti-Semite. If Montgonerie stays in his role it will completely undermine any goodwill Boris has made with Jews in this country in recent weeks.
I wouldn't worry about it. Boris's New Populist Conservatives tend to be Islamophobic and by extension are, or become, semitophilic. I doubt any antisemite will be given houseroom therein. Montgomerie will in future be careful only to attack approved targets, and you're not on that list for the foreseeable.
Cons (or right wing, "traditional" ones) tend to like Jews institutionally (ie they are supporters of Israel) but to not be so keen on them individually.
Lab of course the opposite.
I'm genuinely puzzled that anyone British could find Jews 'other' enough to be prejudiced about them. It's like harbouring a prejudice against men called Keith.
Muslims and Jews have been at each others throats since the dawn of time haven't they? Lefties (the extreme left) take Palestine's side over Israel and the anti-semitism is a derivative of that
Anti-semitism long predated the arrival of Muslims. And plenty of people are on the Palestinian side without being anti-Semitic. Lisa Nandy, for instance, is chair of Labour Friends of Palestine, and has never been accused of being an anti-Semite and has managed to avoid behaving like Corbyn over the issue.
Support for Palestine is often a pretext to justify pre-existing anti-semitism.
You mean those anti semites who claim you arent allowed to criticise Israel without being called anti semitic are talking nonsense?! Shocking.
Yes, it's called thinking and putting forward an argument. That's what this site used to do before the Twitterati took over and decided posting 140 characters of crap represented political insight.
'Corbyn was a 10/10 politician' says Rebecca Long Bailey. She claims it was all the mejias fault, an honest man to the core and a visionary.
I know it doesn’t really need repeating, but Labour are screwed if she takes the helm.
It will represent a continuation of the left`s piracy of the party. But IMO they are screwed anyway. They have relied forever on votes from people who are more conservative than they are collectivist. Now these folk have taken a big gulp and ticked Conservative on the ballot. They will need a much smaller gulp to do it again.
Especially so if, as expected, there’s a whole raft of infrastructure spending and business incentives coming to those Northern towns in the next couple of years.
I think you are overcomplicating it. Those "conservative" old labour voters looked at Corbyn and hated everything about him. 2019 GE was pro-Johnson by default. It was the anti-Corbyn election. Everything depends on whom they replace Mr. Thicky with. The one thing you can say about Johnson is that he is very good at defeating a very poor opponent.
Oh no, I think he’s real. There is going to be huge infrastructure investment and business incentives (like ‘free zones’ with no business rates and discounted employer NI) in those geographical areas that governments of all colours have ignored for decades.
The PM and his close advisors are well aware that the referendum campaign and the last election campaign managed to convent millions of people to voting with Johnson, his tasks now are to keep those voters onside and attract the next lot of Con voters from neighbouring towns.
They will start will something that can be done quickly and noticed by the voters and be relatively cheap. My bet is on Town Centre smartening up. Also provides nice photo op for when Boris visits the recently won red wall seats.
Excellent idea. Though Boris will have to get his photo op in quickly - these town centres will be soiled again with blood, vomit and spilled kebab meat by Sunday morning.
Top quality sneering there.
Worst door-knocking experience 2019 was one where the door-step was still covered an inch deep in last night's curry and booze.....
Yes, it's called thinking and putting forward an argument. That's what this site used to do before the Twitterati took over and decided posting 140 characters of crap represented political insight.
Read it - you may find it of interest.
It was a good post, Stodge. I think in particular that you are right that it was a mistake not to accept the result of the referendum.
Yes, it's called thinking and putting forward an argument. That's what this site used to do before the Twitterati took over and decided posting 140 characters of crap represented political insight.
Having now seen the clip of RLB defending Corbyn, it is even worse than the tweet suggested.
It is, as ever with this clique, the fault of the media for attacking Corbyn and of the Labour establishment for not having a better rebuttal unit to defend him.
So nothing to do with the massive flaws in Corbyn's record at all.
She is utterly deluded.
Guaranteed to win then if the membership is still as blinkered as it appears to have been over the past few years.
"the task is to convert the vote increases in key areas into local campaigning which will bear fruit when the Johnson Government hits its mid-term trough"
She has shown this is her strength. People in St. Albans were very happy to still have her posters up a week after the election. She can clearly enthuse locally. Maybe she can do it nationally? Take a closer look.
But hey, I'm a Tory. What do I know?
You're an activist on the ground, that's the important thing. Back in the 80s and 90s, the LDs completely swamped the Conservatives in the ground game and the 46 seats won in 1997 were, as I remember, all in areas of local Government strength.
The Council seat losses in the 00s and in the Coalition years were a huge part of the 2015 debacle and it's going to be a very long journey back but 700 gains in May was a start and I can only hope the next rounds of local contests will be similarly productive.
That's how it always work - win the Parliamentary seat from a position of local Council strength and activity. The Conservatives will have a record to defend and will inevitably lose some disillusioned supporters who will hopefully show their protest vote in the time-honoured fashion.
Talking to people in the Party, there is a sense of "no quick fix" and it's going to be years, if not decades, of hard work to get back.
Cos everybody has 3 weeks for one leg of a trip...
What is your problem with this? It looked like quite an enjoyable holiday. Should I now expect criticism for having some solar panels on my roof? "Not everyone can afford a few thousand quid." You're not being asked to travel by cargo ship, relax!
Because it isn't pitched as a fun alternative holiday, it is pitched as a realistic sustainable alternative to flying, which is just nonsense from the time it takes to the flexibility required i.e. the sailing dates of cargo vessels alter by several days at the drop of a hat.
A few years ago a couple of my cousins returned from a visit to family in New Zealand by cargo ship. Said it was very enjoyable. Took them several weeks although they did have a few stopovers. But they were retired, so time wasn't of the essence.
I imagine it would be lovely on the right route in the right weather. They were reporting an average 15m(!) wave in the North Atlantic yesterday, between Iceland and Greenland.
From Gough Island to Tristan da Cunha, the swell was so vast, you would sit in the lounge and look out from a mountain-top of water, to be shortly followed by looking up at a canyon. Thankfully we were going with the swell....any other direction and we would have been strapped into our beds.
52 Labour MPs have now declared - Starmer 18 Phillips 12 Long Bailey 11 Nandy 7 Lewis 3 Thornberry 1
Over a quarter of the electorate. Margin of error?
Lewis and Thornberry can give up.
Yes. Thornberry hasn`t one backed yet according to Guido.
Phillips has racked 14 up so far. I`m surprised.
She has created a public persona for herself that makes her look and sound authentic (and is quite far removed from how she behaves in private from what my local sources have told me)
I think she will make it to the membership voting stage - and end up being offered Party chair - or some similar position. Essentially the Shadow Minister for being wheeled out in front of the media every day.
So The Guardian loses the plot even more than usual today, trying to equivocate the recipients of one of the most generous welfare systems in the world with terrorists.
It’s not quite the woman wanking the dolphin, but it’s pretty close to Peak Guardian.
Since IDS was an even more enthusiastic proponent of intervention in Iraq than Blair and softened up the Tory party for its supine acquiescence with Gulf War II, I think it can safely be said that he's a thoroughly nasty man whose actions had caused unnecessary deaths.
Or alternatively he's a thoroughly decent man whose view at the time of the risks of action versus no action was different from your hindsight.
Really, that was an exceptionally unpleasant post of yours.
Was there anything ever particularly 'decent' about IDS's stance on Iraq? I always got the impression that his rabid hatred of all things European drove him to what just happened to be the US right-wing fad of the time: NeoConservatism.
After all the helpful comments from the usual suspects earlier, perhaps the view of someone who actually has a vote in the LD leadership election may be of interest (or it may not).
The Party's problems don't really start or end with the leader unlike Labour's. The core problem is the message not the messenger and even in his New Year message Sir Ed was still talking about "stopping Brexit".
The Party has to grow up and realise the battle is lost - whether we like it or not, the 2016 Referendum result, for all its imperfections, was still a reasonably free and fair vote (and certainly more so than in many other countries). The Party should have taken it on the chin then and there and accepted the will of the people was to leave the EU.
The method and manner of departure was of course not specified and there would be many who would argue for a close and positive relationship post-membership especially in terms of trade but also politically. By abdicating the field to the "hard" Brexiteers, the LDs have made a more distant, antagonistic and economically difficult relationship more likely.
That's the past - I would now support a candidate willing to say the unsayable in terms of our EU membership. Yes, we can argue to rejoin one day once we have left (perfectly credible once we know the terms on which the UK could rejoin) but unless it unravels at once (very unlikely) it only seems fair to give life outside the EU a fair crack of the whip.
Johnson's centralising social democratic tendencies do provide plenty of ground for effective opposition - there will be no problem which can't be solved by throwing money at it and indeed I see Javid and I hear Brown and even David Owen in terms of the belief that Government can and must do anything and everything.
For those of us interested in a proper devolution of power and responsibility down to existing local authorities combined with sound financial management going forward, there are angles of attack aplenty which can be built on.
I've no issue with Layla Moran's sexuality in any form - I don't really know where she stands on other issues and while Daisy Cooper's win in St Albans was one of the highlights of an otherwise frustrating evening last month, I struggle with the logic of propelling her to the top position so quickly.
In truth, no one will be much interested in the LDs for the foreseeable future - the task is to convert the vote increases in key areas into local campaigning which will bear fruit when the Johnson Government hits its mid-term trough. The 2021 County elections will be fought on the very strong Conservative gains in 2017 and there will surely be seats to take then.
tldr: Leaver believes that the Lib Dems should give up their USP that appeals to non-Leavers.
As for Labour, plenty of comment on the individual contenders but a key point to remember is most political parties are like super-tankers - they don't turn quickly or easily. Those expecting denunciation of Corbyn and all he stood for a month after a defeat are being foolish and don't understand how politics works.
Kinnock had to wait two years before denouncing Militant and it's going to be baby steps for the next Labour leader seeking to re-position the party as the objective is not to trigger a schism but to take the membership on a journey and the first step is going to be the hardest.
I don't even know if Keir Starmer, Lisa Nandy or any of the others has a clear destination apart from getting back into Government. This comes in two stages - stage one is being an effective Opposition which may not sound easy with just 203 MPs but it's about amendments to legislation which can cause division in Tory ranks. The second stage is more obvious and more difficult - Labour remains, for all that happened last month, the only realistic alternative Government but translating the arithmetic into a concept which disillusioned Conservatives will support is the big challenge.
Kinnock had the numbers - in the form of what was still at the time a mass labour movement of ordinary in industry and commerce.
The moderates now don't. And for the Corbuynites purity and dogma are all.
As for Labour, plenty of comment on the individual contenders but a key point to remember is most political parties are like super-tankers - they don't turn quickly or easily. Those expecting denunciation of Corbyn and all he stood for a month after a defeat are being foolish and don't understand how politics works.
Kinnock had to wait two years before denouncing Militant and it's going to be baby steps for the next Labour leader seeking to re-position the party as the objective is not to trigger a schism but to take the membership on a journey and the first step is going to be the hardest.
I don't even know if Keir Starmer, Lisa Nandy or any of the others has a clear destination apart from getting back into Government. This comes in two stages - stage one is being an effective Opposition which may not sound easy with just 203 MPs but it's about amendments to legislation which can cause division in Tory ranks. The second stage is more obvious and more difficult - Labour remains, for all that happened last month, the only realistic alternative Government but translating the arithmetic into a concept which disillusioned Conservatives will support is the big challenge.
I am not sure that the comparison with Kinnock is entirely valid here. His predecessor - Michael Foot - had been elected by the PLP in November 1980. In no sense was he foisted on MPs by an Electoral College or mass membership vote. No attempt was ever made to No Confidence Foot - despite his obviously limited appeal to the wider electorate. Moreover, Labour's policy position in 1983 was well to the left of where it has been under Corbyn. Claims to the contrary to a large extent reflect how far Labour had moved to the Right during the New Labour years. Labour's 2019 manifesto can reasonably be criticised for its scatter gun approach , but in essence was probably less left wing than the 1974 manifestos.
52 Labour MPs have now declared - Starmer 18 Phillips 12 Long Bailey 11 Nandy 7 Lewis 3 Thornberry 1
Over a quarter of the electorate. Margin of error?
Lewis and Thornberry can give up.
Yes. Thornberry hasn`t one backed yet according to Guido.
Phillips has racked 14 up so far. I`m surprised.
Jess is the only one who I think can beat Boris. If they are smart enough to pick her, I'll have to revisit my 2024 prediction. Starmer is nice enough but I don't think he's got the stones for a fight. Thornberry does but she shat the bed with the flags. Everybody else is meh.
And the Labour leadership candidates each say what, exactly?
Who is prepared to say the previously unsayable?
Jess has been pretty outspoken on the issue. We cannot pick and choose, equality means equality for all.
For example: “Well, sorry, the British Pakistani-Bangladeshi community, certainly where I am, has issues about women’s roles in a family, in society. That’s the truth. Not all of them, obviously. But I have lots of cases on my books. The acceptability of going and getting a wife from abroad if your son is disabled, for example. As if he deserves to have a wife and we’ll just get one from Pakistan. That’s not OK in my book.”
For those convinced that Johnson will retain the northern seats at the next GE, I think you may be disappointed. You might discover that Michael Hesseltine did an amazing job in inner city transformation. Not sure it won a single Tory vote though. The recent election was an anti-Corbyn vote, and those areas hated Corbyn. Provided Labour don't choose someone almost as unelectable as Corbyn (which is possible), the red wall will magically rebuild itself at the next GE. I hope those new shiny Tory MPs have an alternative career plan for 2025!
52 Labour MPs have now declared - Starmer 18 Phillips 12 Long Bailey 11 Nandy 7 Lewis 3 Thornberry 1
Over a quarter of the electorate. Margin of error?
Lewis and Thornberry can give up.
Yes. Thornberry hasn`t one backed yet according to Guido.
Phillips has racked 14 up so far. I`m surprised.
She has created a public persona for herself that makes her look and sound authentic (and is quite far removed from how she behaves in private from what my local sources have told me)
I think she will make it to the membership voting stage - and end up being offered Party chair - or some similar position. Essentially the Shadow Minister for being wheeled out in front of the media every day.
Not so sure. Those who are quietly reflecting on who to support are by their very nature less likely to be persuaded by the gobby.
After all the helpful comments from the usual suspects earlier, perhaps the view of someone who actually has a vote in the LD leadership election may be of interest (or it may not).
The Party's problems don't really start or end with the leader unlike Labour's. The core problem is the message not the messenger and even in his New Year message Sir Ed was still talking about "stopping Brexit".
The Party has to grow up and realise the battle is lost - whether we like it or not, the 2016 Referendum result, for all its imperfections, was still a reasonably free and fair vote (and certainly more so than in many other countries). The Party should have taken it on the chin then and there and accepted the will of the people was to leave the EU.
The method and manner of departure was of course not specified and there would be many who would argue for a close and positive relationship post-membership especially in terms of trade but also politically. By abdicating the field to the "hard" Brexiteers, the LDs have made a more distant, antagonistic and economically difficult relationship more likely.
That's the past - I would now support a candidate willing to say the unsayable in terms of our EU membership. Yes, we can argue to rejoin one day once we have left (perfectly de the EU a fair crack of the whip.
Johnson's centralising social democratic tendencies do provide plenty of ground for effective opposition - there will be no problem which can't be solved by throwing money at it and indeed I see Javid and I hear Brown and even David Owen in terms of the belief that Government can and must do anything and everything.
For those of us interested in a proper devolution of power and responsibility down to existing local authorities combined with sound financial management going forward, there are angles of attack aplenty which can be built on.
I've no issue with Layla Moran's sexuality in any form - I don't really know where she stands on other issues and while Daisy Cooper's win in St Albans was one of the highlights of an otherwise frustrating evening last month, I struggle with the logic of propelling her to the top position so quickly.
In truth, no en.
tldr: Leaver believes that the Lib Dems should give up their USP that appeals to non-Leavers.
If it was too long and you did not read it, hence tldr, how do you know it says that? And how do you react when people summarise your points so simplistically based on your 2016 position? With grace?
Now, that being said I think the idea the LDs should have just accepted things right from the start would have been wrong, but theres question of if their escalation and mono focus in fact helped much. If it did, not as much as hoped.
Yes, it's called thinking and putting forward an argument. That's what this site used to do before the Twitterati took over and decided posting 140 characters of crap represented political insight.
Comments
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/06/us/politics/trump-esper-iran-cultural-sites.html
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1214571637758136321
And other LDs voting for Corbyn despite earlier protestations they never would again?
The PM and his close advisors are well aware that the referendum campaign and the last election campaign managed to convent millions of people to voting with Johnson, his tasks now are to keep those voters onside and attract the next lot of Con voters from neighbouring towns.
Should I now expect criticism for having some solar panels on my roof?
"Not everyone can afford a few thousand quid."
You're not being asked to travel by cargo ship, relax!
The big investment is very real though, and there’s going to be huge financial incentives for companies to move from Wokingham to Rotherham.
IMO the big problems with high-skilled labour mobility are stamp duty and good schools - that’s where the second-order efforts need to be focussed.
But they were retired, so time wasn't of the essence.
https://capx.co/what-will-boundary-changes-mean-for-british-politics/
https://twitter.com/JohnJCrace/status/1214577532860846086
https://twitter.com/nedsimons/status/1214581812279816192
It’s not quite the woman wanking the dolphin, but it’s pretty close to Peak Guardian.
Not that they actually lived shorter lives, but that there wasnt the additional time that was modelled.
And for that we are the equivalent of a war general of a despotic theocracy that publicly hangs people for being gay.
It was a *joke*.
Difficult if your usp is gobby cow with not always informed opinions on absolutely everything though.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7860319/Islamic-head-teacher-DEFENDS-unlawful-segregation-boys-girls.html
After all the helpful comments from the usual suspects earlier, perhaps the view of someone who actually has a vote in the LD leadership election may be of interest (or it may not).
The Party's problems don't really start or end with the leader unlike Labour's. The core problem is the message not the messenger and even in his New Year message Sir Ed was still talking about "stopping Brexit".
The Party has to grow up and realise the battle is lost - whether we like it or not, the 2016 Referendum result, for all its imperfections, was still a reasonably free and fair vote (and certainly more so than in many other countries). The Party should have taken it on the chin then and there and accepted the will of the people was to leave the EU.
The method and manner of departure was of course not specified and there would be many who would argue for a close and positive relationship post-membership especially in terms of trade but also politically. By abdicating the field to the "hard" Brexiteers, the LDs have made a more distant, antagonistic and economically difficult relationship more likely.
That's the past - I would now support a candidate willing to say the unsayable in terms of our EU membership. Yes, we can argue to rejoin one day once we have left (perfectly credible once we know the terms on which the UK could rejoin) but unless it unravels at once (very unlikely) it only seems fair to give life outside the EU a fair crack of the whip.
Johnson's centralising social democratic tendencies do provide plenty of ground for effective opposition - there will be no problem which can't be solved by throwing money at it and indeed I see Javid and I hear Brown and even David Owen in terms of the belief that Government can and must do anything and everything.
For those of us interested in a proper devolution of power and responsibility down to existing local authorities combined with sound financial management going forward, there are angles of attack aplenty which can be built on.
I've no issue with Layla Moran's sexuality in any form - I don't really know where she stands on other issues and while Daisy Cooper's win in St Albans was one of the highlights of an otherwise frustrating evening last month, I struggle with the logic of propelling her to the top position so quickly.
In truth, no one will be much interested in the LDs for the foreseeable future - the task is to convert the vote increases in key areas into local campaigning which will bear fruit when the Johnson Government hits its mid-term trough. The 2021 County elections will be fought on the very strong Conservative gains in 2017 and there will surely be seats to take then.
The Birmingham story is being shared and laughed at over here.
“Political leaders are judged not by how nice they are - and Corbyn was always a very kind man in my experience - but by their ability to win power and enact the policies voters have voted for. After 2 defeats under his leadership , as he himself has recognised, it is time to move on - and that is why I am standing in order to win a victory for Labour policies for the 20’s and 30’s. Blah, blah ....”
Honestly, this stuff is not hard.......
"the task is to convert the vote increases in key areas into local campaigning which will bear fruit when the Johnson Government hits its mid-term trough"
She has shown this is her strength. People in St. Albans were very happy to still have her posters up a week after the election. She can clearly enthuse locally. Maybe she can do it nationally? Take a closer look.
But hey, I'm a Tory. What do I know?
Really, that was an exceptionally unpleasant post of yours.
Who is prepared to say the previously unsayable?
Kinnock had to wait two years before denouncing Militant and it's going to be baby steps for the next Labour leader seeking to re-position the party as the objective is not to trigger a schism but to take the membership on a journey and the first step is going to be the hardest.
I don't even know if Keir Starmer, Lisa Nandy or any of the others has a clear destination apart from getting back into Government. This comes in two stages - stage one is being an effective Opposition which may not sound easy with just 203 MPs but it's about amendments to legislation which can cause division in Tory ranks. The second stage is more obvious and more difficult - Labour remains, for all that happened last month, the only realistic alternative Government but translating the arithmetic into a concept which disillusioned Conservatives will support is the big challenge.
Read it - you may find it of interest.
Lewis and Thornberry can give up.
It is, as ever with this clique, the fault of the media for attacking Corbyn and of the Labour establishment for not having a better rebuttal unit to defend him.
So nothing to do with the massive flaws in Corbyn's record at all.
She is utterly deluded.
Guaranteed to win then if the membership is still as blinkered as it appears to have been over the past few years.
Phillips has racked 14 up so far. I`m surprised.
(Or is that '1' herself?)
Lewis will probably blame it on racism.
The Council seat losses in the 00s and in the Coalition years were a huge part of the 2015 debacle and it's going to be a very long journey back but 700 gains in May was a start and I can only hope the next rounds of local contests will be similarly productive.
That's how it always work - win the Parliamentary seat from a position of local Council strength and activity. The Conservatives will have a record to defend and will inevitably lose some disillusioned supporters who will hopefully show their protest vote in the time-honoured fashion.
Talking to people in the Party, there is a sense of "no quick fix" and it's going to be years, if not decades, of hard work to get back.
I think she will make it to the membership voting stage - and end up being offered Party chair - or some similar position. Essentially the Shadow Minister for being wheeled out in front of the media every day.
The moderates now don't. And for the Corbuynites purity and dogma are all.
For example: “Well, sorry, the British Pakistani-Bangladeshi community, certainly where I am, has issues about women’s roles in a family, in society. That’s the truth. Not all of them, obviously. But I have lots of cases on my books. The acceptability of going and getting a wife from abroad if your son is disabled, for example. As if he deserves to have a wife and we’ll just get one from Pakistan. That’s not OK in my book.”
From : https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jess-phillips-labour-under-corbyn-feels-like-i-ve-been-locked-out-of-my-home-laura-pidcock-amber-rudd-maria-miller-stella-creasey-jacob-rees-mogg-gs5xp8mh7
Which also explains why she fell out with Corbyn. Not over socialism, but rather because of the attitude to women of his entourage.
Now, that being said I think the idea the LDs should have just accepted things right from the start would have been wrong, but theres question of if their escalation and mono focus in fact helped much. If it did, not as much as hoped.