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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris would be making a big mistake denying Bercow a peerage

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  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited December 2019
    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Quick question: I'm writing an article for year-end about PB births, deaths, job changes and illnesses. I know about @twistedfirestopper3 wife, @ExiledInScotland brother, and @Casino_Royale 's baby. I know there was a stabbing, somebody left job to do a law degree, and several others are very ill. Can anybody enlighten me as to who they are, please?

    It is @Gallowgate doing the law conversion course.
    Yes plus don't forget one other of us is also doing a conversion of a more personal nature.
  • Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Quick question: I'm writing an article for year-end about PB births, deaths, job changes and illnesses. I know about @twistedfirestopper3 wife, @ExiledInScotland brother, and @Casino_Royale 's baby. I know there was a stabbing, somebody left job to do a law degree, and several others are very ill. Can anybody enlighten me as to who they are, please?

    It is @Gallowgate doing the law conversion course.
    Isn't someone here starting a military history masters? Possibly more than one.

  • Mr. Mark, I'm very sorry to hear that. My deepest sympathies.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited December 2019

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The Tories need to sort out the great university mess in the next decade or so, the current system isn't even particularly good for the nations finances. All it produces is left leaning graduates that bear a grudge. It's not an issue now because anyone over the age of 40 is horrified by the thought of Corbyn but long term it's a problem they need to sort. Remember this post when the Social Democrat landslides of the 2030s come along.

    Given no UK government since Lord Liverpool pre the Great Reform Act in 1832 has got more than 20 consecutive years in power, social democrat victories in the 2030s may be inevitable whatever the Tories do on student loans even if they get another decade in power to do it
    Unfair student loans (interest rate 5.4%!) and housing will eventually be what drives the Tories out of power. All the help to the way on).

    Tenants will need housing benefit for ~20 years after they retire. The basic state pension is £8,800/year but the market rent of a house in say Worcester seems to be £7,000/year
    https://www.home.co.uk/for_rent/worcester/current_rents?location=worcester

    I call that quite a loudly-ticking timebomb, i.e. to add to the leasehold scandal.
    Not really, given most renters already vote Labour anyway and the vast majority of over 65s own their own property
    Even if tenants comprise 'only' 40% of pensioners in 2045, that's a ticking timebomb. House prices up in past 10-15 years, vs real wages, means more people becoming resigned to the fact that they'll rent for the rest of their life (45 years possibly).

    They'll be paying market rents, unless Harold Macmillan comes back from the grave with a housing policy that doesn't stigmatise public sector tenants versus owner-occupiers. Governments then sought to build more homes of both types of tenure and achieved an amazing rate of 400,000 per year, pre- the near-total 'bonfire of the regulations'.
    Why is it a ticking time bomb, if 60% of voters still own that will largely be the same as now and the Tories have just won a majority of 80 which will go up to a landslide majority of 102 once the boundary changes go through? As I have pointed out by 34 most people own a property and by 65 an even higher percentage will do.

    Plus new builds are up to 170 000 a year now, their highest rate for 11 years and that is with less land to build on than Macmillan had and despite NIMBYs protesting against building on the green belt
    https://www.propertywire.com/news/uk/number-of-new-homes-built-reached-an-11-year-high/
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,472

    viewcode said:

    Quick question: I'm writing an article for year-end about PB births, deaths, job changes and illnesses. I know about @twistedfirestopper3 wife, @ExiledInScotland brother, and @Casino_Royale 's baby. I know there was a stabbing, somebody left job to do a law degree, and several others are very ill. Can anybody enlighten me as to who they are, please?

    I'm told my mother is very unlikely to last the year out. Been talking to undertakers about preliminary arrangements this morning. Not something I've ever had to deal with before. I also have a foul hacking cough and cold - can't risk taking that to the home she's in. So I've probably seen her for the last time.

    It's beginning to look a lot like a shit Christmas.....
    That's dreadful Mr M; every sympathy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited December 2019
    Nigelb said:
    Rudy Giuliani said he was 'more of a Jew than George Soros', not much anti Semitism there
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    viewcode said:

    Quick question: I'm writing an article for year-end about PB births, deaths, job changes and illnesses. I know about @twistedfirestopper3 wife, @ExiledInScotland brother, and @Casino_Royale 's baby. I know there was a stabbing, somebody left job to do a law degree, and several others are very ill. Can anybody enlighten me as to who they are, please?

    I'm told my mother is very unlikely to last the year out. Been talking to undertakers about preliminary arrangements this morning. Not something I've ever had to deal with before. I also have a foul hacking cough and cold - can't risk taking that to the home she's in. So I've probably seen her for the last time.

    It's beginning to look a lot like a shit Christmas.....
    Sympathies MM
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    viewcode said:

    Quick question: I'm writing an article for year-end about PB births, deaths, job changes and illnesses. I know about @twistedfirestopper3 wife, @ExiledInScotland brother, and @Casino_Royale 's baby. I know there was a stabbing, somebody left job to do a law degree, and several others are very ill. Can anybody enlighten me as to who they are, please?

    I'm told my mother is very unlikely to last the year out. Been talking to undertakers about preliminary arrangements this morning. Not something I've ever had to deal with before. I also have a foul hacking cough and cold - can't risk taking that to the home she's in. So I've probably seen her for the last time.

    It's beginning to look a lot like a shit Christmas.....
    I'm sorry to hear that, Mark.
  • Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Quick question: I'm writing an article for year-end about PB births, deaths, job changes and illnesses. I know about @twistedfirestopper3 wife, @ExiledInScotland brother, and @Casino_Royale 's baby. I know there was a stabbing, somebody left job to do a law degree, and several others are very ill. Can anybody enlighten me as to who they are, please?

    It is @Gallowgate doing the law conversion course.
    I have a bit of a sniffle and am starting a welding evening class in the new year.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,128

    viewcode said:

    Quick question: I'm writing an article for year-end about PB births, deaths, job changes and illnesses. I know about @twistedfirestopper3 wife, @ExiledInScotland brother, and @Casino_Royale 's baby. I know there was a stabbing, somebody left job to do a law degree, and several others are very ill. Can anybody enlighten me as to who they are, please?

    I'm told my mother is very unlikely to last the year out. Been talking to undertakers about preliminary arrangements this morning. Not something I've ever had to deal with before. I also have a foul hacking cough and cold - can't risk taking that to the home she's in. So I've probably seen her for the last time.

    It's beginning to look a lot like a shit Christmas.....
    Oh Lord, that is terrible. Major sympathies... :(
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,128
    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Quick question: I'm writing an article for year-end about PB births, deaths, job changes and illnesses. I know about @twistedfirestopper3 wife, @ExiledInScotland brother, and @Casino_Royale 's baby. I know there was a stabbing, somebody left job to do a law degree, and several others are very ill. Can anybody enlighten me as to who they are, please?

    It is @Gallowgate doing the law conversion course.
    Thank you.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,128
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Quick question: I'm writing an article for year-end about PB births, deaths, job changes and illnesses. I know about @twistedfirestopper3 wife, @ExiledInScotland brother, and @Casino_Royale 's baby. I know there was a stabbing, somebody left job to do a law degree, and several others are very ill. Can anybody enlighten me as to who they are, please?

    It is @Gallowgate doing the law conversion course.
    Yes plus don't forget one other of us is also doing a conversion of a more personal nature.
    Ok, I'll bite. Who, and what is the nature of the conversion?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Given no UK government since Lord Liverpool pre the Great Reform another decade in power to do it

    Unfair student loans (interest rate 5.4%!) Scotland has led the way on).

    That is not really true, given the age mon).

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/milestonesjourneyingintoadulthood/2019-02-18

    If the Tories win the next general election they will be in office for about 20 years, a historic, unprecedented period of power unsurpassed since the expansion of the franchise, yet no party can be in power for ever
    Help to buy is a subsidy for house builders (and by extension, existing owners), nothing more, nothing less.

    Free market economics would have dictated the price of housing had to fall, help to buy kept demand buoyant. It's a terrible piece of market intervention.

    Help to buy has to be spent on new build properties (who benefits there I wonder?). Many of which have been sold (or mis sold) as leasehold, with doubling ground rent clauses, uncapped service charges and restrictive covenants.

    And of course you have to pay interest on the help to buy loan / pay the help to buy loan back, which traps people in their starter home.

    And don't even get me started on "shared ownership" which is actually a form of assured shorthold tenancy. You don't "own" anything.
    Wrong, I know several people who have managed to buy a property thanks to right to buy and shared ownership, again whinging from you but no constructive proposals except criticising those in place. Shared ownership gives you ownership of a fraction of the property which you gradually increase


    If the price of housing fell due to the free market it would be as average incomes fell which helps nobody extra get a property as mortgages are provided based on multiples of income, the only other way to help other than help to buy etc is building more homes and increasing supply which councils are doing through Local Plans and through restricting immigration which the new points based immigration system Boris wants will do.

    As I already pointed out and you ignored the Tories made a manifesto commitment to ban new leasehold houses.

    Please visit the National Leasehold Campaign if you want to be educated. Or you could just enjoy your ignorance of the ticking timebomb that awaits the Tories if they don't sort it out.
  • viewcode said:

    Quick question: I'm writing an article for year-end about PB births, deaths, job changes and illnesses. I know about @twistedfirestopper3 wife, @ExiledInScotland brother, and @Casino_Royale 's baby. I know there was a stabbing, somebody left job to do a law degree, and several others are very ill. Can anybody enlighten me as to who they are, please?

    I'm told my mother is very unlikely to last the year out. Been talking to undertakers about preliminary arrangements this morning. Not something I've ever had to deal with before. I also have a foul hacking cough and cold - can't risk taking that to the home she's in. So I've probably seen her for the last time.

    It's beginning to look a lot like a shit Christmas.....
    I'm really very sorry to hear that. I hope everything goes as well as these awful situations can do. Chin up, you'll be ok.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    del.

    Given no UK government since Lord Liverpool pre the Great Reform Act in 1832 has got more than 20 consecutive years in power, social democrat victories in the 2030s may be inevitable whatever the Tories do on student loans even if they get another decade in power to do it
    Unfair student loans (interest rate 5.4%!) and housing will eventually be what drives the Tories out of power. All the help to the way on).

    Tenants will need housing benefit for ~20 years after they retire. The basic state pension is £8,800/year but the market rent of a house in say Worcester seems to be £7,000/year
    https://www.home.co.uk/for_rent/worcester/current_rents?location=worcester

    I call that quite a loudly-ticking timebomb, i.e. to add to the leasehold scandal.
    Not really, given most renters already vote Labour anyway and the vast majority of over 65s own their own property
    Even if tenants comprise 'only' 40% of pensioners in 2045, that's a ticking timebomb. House prices up in past 10-15 years, vs real wages, means more people becoming resigned to the fact that they'll rent for the rest of their life (45 years possibly).

    They'll be paying market rents, unless Harold Macmillan comes back from the grave with a housing policy that doesn't stigmatise public sector tenants versus owner-occupiers. Governments then sought to build more homes of both types of tenure and achieved an amazing rate of 400,000 per year, pre- the near-total 'bonfire of the regulations'.
    Why is it a ticking time bomb, if 60% of voters still own that will largely be the same as now and the Tories have just won a majority of 80 which will go up to a landslide majority of 102 once the boundary changes go through? As I have pointed out by 34 most people own a property and by 65 an even higher percentage will do.

    Plus new builds are up to 170 000 a year now, their highest rate for 11 years and that is with less land to build on than Macmillan had and despite NIMBYs protesting against building on the green belt
    https://www.propertywire.com/news/uk/number-of-new-homes-built-reached-an-11-year-high/
    I don't usually cite this paper as a source but nevertheless it's probably an indication of the problem ...

    https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/property/686161/Number-pensioners-renting-soared-220-000-last-four-years
  • HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:
    Rudy Giuliani said he was 'more of a Jew than George Soros', not much anti Semitism there
    As the torch bearer for that type of world view, can you just give me a little insight into the ways Giuliani is 'more of a Jew than George Soros'?
  • Thanks all for the kind words.

    We can fight like cats and dog here over politics, but it never ceases to amaze that people who have mostly never met can have a great capacity for empathy for their fellow posters. It is truly a wonderful feature of this site. In many ways it emobodies the spirit of goodwill at Christmas, all year round.

    Anyway, enough of this schmaltz. I have winter fuel to gather.....

    Best wishes to you, Mark.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    viewcode said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Quick question: I'm writing an article for year-end about PB births, deaths, job changes and illnesses. I know about @twistedfirestopper3 wife, @ExiledInScotland brother, and @Casino_Royale 's baby. I know there was a stabbing, somebody left job to do a law degree, and several others are very ill. Can anybody enlighten me as to who they are, please?

    It is @Gallowgate doing the law conversion course.
    Yes plus don't forget one other of us is also doing a conversion of a more personal nature.
    Ok, I'll bite. Who, and what is the nature of the conversion?
    Our very own @Byronic is leaving his old self behind. Apparently.
  • kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Given no UK government since Lord Liverpool pre the Great Reform another decade in power to do it

    Unfair student loans (interest rate 5.4%!) Scotland has led the way on).

    That is not really true, given the age mon).

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/milestonesjourneyingintoadulthood/2019-02-18

    If the Tories win the next general election they will be in office for about 20 years, a historic, unprecedented period of power unsurpassed since the expansion of the franchise, yet no party can be in power for ever
    Help to buy is a subsidy for house builders (and by extension, existing owners), nothing more, nothing less.

    Free market economics would have dictated the price of housing had to fall, help to buy kept demand buoyant. It's a terrible piece of market intervention.

    Help to buy has to be spent on new build properties (who benefits there I wonder?). Many of which have been sold (or mis sold) as leasehold, with doubling ground rent clauses, uncapped service charges and restrictive covenants.

    And of course you have to pay interest on the help to buy loan / pay the help to buy loan back, which traps people in their starter home.

    And don't even get me started on "shared ownership" which is actually a form of assured shorthold tenancy. You don't "own" anything.
    Wrong, I know several people who have managed to buy a property thanks to right to buy and shared ownership, again whinging from you but no constructive proposals except criticising those in place. Shared ownership gives you ownership of a fraction of the property which you gradually increase


    If the price of housing fell due to the free market it would be as average incomes fell which helps nobody extra get a property as mortgages are provided based on multiples of income, the only other way to help other than help to buy etc is building more homes and increasing supply which councils are doing through Local Plans and through restricting immigration which the new points based immigration system Boris wants will do.

    As I already pointed out and you ignored the Tories made a manifesto commitment to ban new leasehold houses.

    Please visit the National Leasehold Campaign if you want to be educated. Or you could just enjoy your ignorance of the ticking timebomb that awaits the Tories if they don't sort it out.
    People who didnt listen to their conveyance solicitors advice and warnings.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    viewcode said:

    Quick question: I'm writing an article for year-end about PB births, deaths, job changes and illnesses. I know about @twistedfirestopper3 wife, @ExiledInScotland brother, and @Casino_Royale 's baby. I know there was a stabbing, somebody left job to do a law degree, and several others are very ill. Can anybody enlighten me as to who they are, please?

    I'm told my mother is very unlikely to last the year out. Been talking to undertakers about preliminary arrangements this morning. Not something I've ever had to deal with before. I also have a foul hacking cough and cold - can't risk taking that to the home she's in. So I've probably seen her for the last time.

    It's beginning to look a lot like a shit Christmas.....
    I'm really sorry to hear that. I've just been through this with my dad. I should offer some advice, but there isn't any really. You want them to have a peaceful passing and there's a large amount of admin you have to get through. It's worth making time for that if you are working.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:
    Rudy Giuliani said he was 'more of a Jew than George Soros', not much anti Semitism there
    As the torch bearer for that type of world view, can you just give me a little insight into the ways Giuliani is 'more of a Jew than George Soros'?
    “What we’ve got here is a failure to communicate....”
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited December 2019
    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Given no UK government since Lord Liverpool pre the Great Reform another decade in power to do it

    Unfair student loans (interest rate 5.4%!) Scotland has led the way on).

    That is not really true, given the age mon).

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/milestonesjourneyingintoadulthood/2019-02-18

    If the Tories win the next general election they will be in office for about 20 years, a historic, unprecedented period of power unsurpassed since the expansion of the franchise, yet no party can be in power for ever
    Help to buy is a subsidy for house builders (and by extension, existing owners), nothing more, nothing less.

    Free market economics would have dictated the price of housing had to fall, help to buy kept demand buoyant. It's a terrible piece of market intervention.

    Help to buy has to be spent on new build properties (who benefits there I wonder?). Many of which have been sold (or mis sold) as leasehold, with doubling ground rent clauses, uncapped service charges and restrictive covenants.

    And of course you have to pay interest on the help to buy loan / pay the help to buy loan back, which traps people in their starter home.

    And don't even get me started on "shared ownership" which is actually a form of assured shorthold tenancy. You don't "own" anything.
    Wrong, I know several people who have managed to buy a y etc is building more homes and increasing supply which councils are doing through Local Plans and through restricting immigration which the new points based immigration system Boris wants will do.

    As I already pointed out and you ignored the Tories made a manifesto commitment to ban new leasehold houses.

    Please visit the National Leasehold Campaign if you want to be educated. Or you could just enjoy your ignorance of the ticking timebomb that awaits the Tories if they don't sort it out.
    There is nothing to be educated about, as I have said the Tories have already committed to ban new leasehold housing in their manifesto.

    What is astonishing though is the desperation of leftwingers like you having just suffered a crushing defeat at the hands of the most brilliant Tory leader since Thatcher in clinging to the hope of mass welfare dependence and lack of property ownership amongst future generations as your party's route back to power, rather than address the actual reasons you lost such as your hopeless leader and abysmal manifesto and bothering to offer any positive vision for the country.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,128
    TOPPING said:

    viewcode said:

    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Quick question: I'm writing an article for year-end about PB births, deaths, job changes and illnesses. I know about @twistedfirestopper3 wife, @ExiledInScotland brother, and @Casino_Royale 's baby. I know there was a stabbing, somebody left job to do a law degree, and several others are very ill. Can anybody enlighten me as to who they are, please?

    It is @Gallowgate doing the law conversion course.
    Yes plus don't forget one other of us is also doing a conversion of a more personal nature.
    Ok, I'll bite. Who, and what is the nature of the conversion?
    Our very own @Byronic is leaving his old self behind. Apparently.
    Who would possibly doubt it?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951



    People who didnt listen to their conveyance solicitors advice and warnings.

    And what of people trapped in flats they can't sell that are clad in flammable materials not covered by the Grenfell legislation?

    Or the people paying 4 x the service charges they were paying when they bought the property, charges that are utterly uncapped and prevent them selling the property? (even Dubai has recently introduced a system to prevent this).

    Or people who were pressured by salespeople into using the builder's chosen conveyancer who _didn't_ warn them?

    And so on. And so forth.

    There have been several excellent articles in the Times and the Guardian among other places on these subjects this year, I suggest you educate yourself.

    Most of the people affected by these various scandals are young and first time buyers, exactly the sort of people who should be voting Conservative.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236

    Thanks all for the kind words.

    We can fight like cats and dog here over politics, but it never ceases to amaze that people who have mostly never met can have a great capacity for empathy for their fellow posters. It is truly a wonderful feature of this site. In many ways it emobodies the spirit of goodwill at Christmas, all year round......

    All the best to you, MM.
    I’ve a parent with very late stage Alzheimer’s, so I’ve an idea of what you’re going through.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:



    Given no UK government since Lord Liverpool pre the Great Reform another decade in power to do it

    Unfair student loans (interest rate 5.4%!) Scotland has led the way on).

    That is not really true, given the age mon).

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationestimates/articles/milestonesjourneyingintoadulthood/2019-02-18

    If the Tories win the next general election they will be in office for about 20 years, a historic, unprecedented period of power unsurpassed since the expansion of the franchise, yet no party can be in power for ever
    Help to buy is a subsidy for house builders (and by extension, existing owners), nothing more, nothing less.

    Free market economics would have dictated the price of housing had to fall, help to buy kept demand buoyant. It's a terrible piece of market intervention.

    Help to buy has to be spent on new build properties (who benefits there I wonder?). Many of which have been sold (or mis sold) as leasehold, with doubling ground rent clauses, uncapped service charges and restrictive covenants.

    And of course you have to pay interest on the help to buy loan / pay the help to buy loan back, which traps people in their starter home.

    And don't even get me started on "shared ownership" which is actually a form of assured shorthold tenancy. You don't "own" anything.
    Wrong, I know several people who have managed to buy a y etc is building more homes and increasing supply which councils are doing through Local Plans and through restricting immigration which the new points based immigration system Boris wants will do.

    As I already pointed out and you ignored the Tories made a manifesto commitment to ban new leasehold houses.

    Please visit the National Leasehold Campaign if you want to be educated. Or you could just enjoy your ignorance of the ticking timebomb that awaits the Tories if they don't sort it out.
    There is nothing to be educated about, as I have said the Tories have already committed to ban new leasehold housing in their manifesto.

    What is astonishing though is the desperation of leftwingers like you having just suffered a crushing defeat at the hands of the most brilliant Tory leader since Thatcher in clinging to the hope of mass welfare dependence and lack of property ownership amongst future generations as your party's route back to power, rather than address the actual reasons you lost such as your hopeless leader and abysmal manifesto
    I have only ever voted Conservative. And you sir, are a pillock.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361

    malcolmg said:

    Corbyn's Christmas message is the perfect encapsulaiton of why Labour lost the election so heavily. It essentially accuses the majority of voters of not being as kind and as compasionate as he is, while failing to acknowledge any kind of Christmas joy and portraying the UK as a land of unremitting misery. He is, as he has done since he became leader, talking at the electorate, rather than to it.

    Until Labour understands that peope and the world are complex, that you can be opposed to public services cuts and homelessness, while also aspiring to a better life for you and your family and enjoying Christmas even though not everyone does (for example), it has no hope of winning power.

    I have not seen Johnson's message - and will do my very best to avoid it - but I bet it is diametrically opposed in tone and spirit to Cobyn's/ And I know which one most people will relate to better.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1209379431124353024

    The sooner Corbyn clears off to his allotment the better everyone will be and I know it is Christmas
    G, Hopefully Johnson will be marooned in Mustique and we will have seen the back of him, that would be doing the country a service
    I don't think you will get rid of him that easily Malc. Another 10 years beckons at the rate the opposition are collapsing

    Anyway, have a great Christmas and a guid New Year
    Same to you Big G, had a bad start so far, got flu , had coughing fit and stupidly stood up, passed out and went down like a brick , smashed my face badly , spent all Sunday in A & E. At home recovering. Only good thing is having not eaten for day is may lose a bit of weight. Onwards and upwards.
    Have to say NHS were exemplary if a bit slow, tested me for everything to be sure what had caused it etc.
  • Thanks all for the kind words.

    We can fight like cats and dog here over politics, but it never ceases to amaze that people who have mostly never met can have a great capacity for empathy for their fellow posters. It is truly a wonderful feature of this site. In many ways it emobodies the spirit of goodwill at Christmas, all year round.

    Anyway, enough of this schmaltz. I have winter fuel to gather.....

    My thoughts are with you and your family at this saddest of moments. It is so hard to lose your parents but hopefully your mother will soon find peace and leave many wonderful memories
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited December 2019
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Corbyn's Christmas message is the perfect encapsulaiton of why Labour lost the election so heavily. It essentially accuses the majority of voters of not being as kind and as compasionate as he is, while failing to acknowledge any kind of Christmas joy and portraying the UK as a land of unremitting misery. He is, as he has done since he became leader, talking at the electorate, rather than to it.

    Until Labour understands that peope and the world are complex, that you can be opposed to public services cuts and homelessness, while also aspiring to a better life for you and your family and enjoying Christmas even though not everyone does (for example), it has no hope of winning power.

    I have not seen Johnson's message - and will do my very best to avoid it - but I bet it is diametrically opposed in tone and spirit to Cobyn's/ And I know which one most people will relate to better.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1209379431124353024

    The sooner Corbyn clears off to his allotment the better everyone will be and I know it is Christmas
    G, Hopefully Johnson will be marooned in Mustique and we will have seen the back of him, that would be doing the country a service
    I don't think you will get rid of him that easily Malc. Another 10 years beckons at the rate the opposition are collapsing

    Anyway, have a great Christmas and a guid New Year
    Same to you Big G, had a bad start so far, got flu , had coughing fit and stupidly stood up, passed out and went down like a brick , smashed my face badly , spent all Sunday in A & E. At home recovering. Only good thing is having not eaten for day is may lose a bit of weight. Onwards and upwards.
    Have to say NHS were exemplary if a bit slow, tested me for everything to be sure what had caused it etc.
    I trust you are on the mend. I recommend some nice turnip soup as an alternative to solids. :p
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361
    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    timmo said:

    Where is the PB Christmas crossword?

    Tomorrow.
    Clue is in the name I would have thought
    Damn you’re going to be good at this.
    Naughty David
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    del.

    Given no UK government since Lord Liverpool pre the Great Reform Act in 1832 has got more than 20 consecutive years in power, social democrat victories in the 2030s may be inevitable whatever the Tories do on student loans even if they get another decade in power to do it
    Unfair student loans (interest rate 5.4%!) and housing will eventually be what drives the Tories out of power. All the help to the way on).

    Tenants will need housing benefit for ~20 years after they retire. The basic state pension is £8,800/year but the market rent of a house in say Worcester seems to be £7,000/year
    https://www.home.co.uk/for_rent/worcester/current_rents?location=worcester

    I call that quite a loudly-ticking timebomb, i.e. to add to the leasehold scandal.
    Not really, given most renters already vote Labour anyway and the vast majority of over 65s own their own property
    Even if tenants comprise 'only' 40% of pensioners in 2045, that's a ticking timebomb. House prices up in past 10-15 years, vs real wages, means more people becoming resigned to the fact that they'll rent for the rest of their life (45 years possibly).

    They'll be paying market rents, unless Harold Macmillan comes back from the grave with a housing policy that doesn't stigmatise public sector tenants versus owner-occupiers. Governments then sought to build more homes of both types of tenure and achieved an amazing rate of 400,000 per year, pre- the near-total 'bonfire of the regulations'.
    Why is it a ticking time bomb, if 60% of voters still own that will largely be the same as now and the Tories have just won a majority of 80 which will go up to a landslide majority of 102 once the boundary changes go through? As I have pointed out by 34 most people own a property and by 65 an even higher percentage will do.

    Plus new builds are up to 170 000 a year now, their highest rate for 11 years and that is with less land to build on than Macmillan had and despite NIMBYs protesting against building on the green belt
    https://www.propertywire.com/news/uk/number-of-new-homes-built-reached-an-11-year-high/
    I don't usually cite this paper as a source but nevertheless it's probably an indication of the problem ...

    https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/property/686161/Number-pensioners-renting-soared-220-000-last-four-years
    And the vast majority of pensioners still own and many of those who do rent in old age as the article says have merely decided to downsize rather than take out another mortgage
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Corbyn's Christmas message is the perfect encapsulaiton of why Labour lost the election so heavily. It essentially accuses the majority of voters of not being as kind and as compasionate as he is, while failing to acknowledge any kind of Christmas joy and portraying the UK as a land of unremitting misery. He is, as he has done since he became leader, talking at the electorate, rather than to it.

    Until Labour understands that peope and the world are complex, that you can be opposed to public services cuts and homelessness, while also aspiring to a better life for you and your family and enjoying Christmas even though not everyone does (for example), it has no hope of winning power.

    I have not seen Johnson's message - and will do my very best to avoid it - but I bet it is diametrically opposed in tone and spirit to Cobyn's/ And I know which one most people will relate to better.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1209379431124353024

    The sooner Corbyn clears off to his allotment the better everyone will be and I know it is Christmas
    G, Hopefully Johnson will be marooned in Mustique and we will have seen the back of him, that would be doing the country a service
    I don't think you will get rid of him that easily Malc. Another 10 years beckons at the rate the opposition are collapsing

    Anyway, have a great Christmas and a guid New Year
    Same to you Big G, had a bad start so far, got flu , had coughing fit and stupidly stood up, passed out and went down like a brick , smashed my face badly , spent all Sunday in A & E. At home recovering. Only good thing is having not eaten for day is may lose a bit of weight. Onwards and upwards.
    Have to say NHS were exemplary if a bit slow, tested me for everything to be sure what had caused it etc.
    I trust you are on the mend. I recommend some nice turnip soup as an alternative to solids. :p
    Thanks Rob, I have the king of Black eyes, never seen one like it. On the mend though and a silver lining is I have had no drink for days either, so will be as fit as a butchers dog by New Year.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited December 2019
    kyf_100 said:



    People who didnt listen to their conveyance solicitors advice and warnings.

    And what of people trapped in flats they can't sell that are clad in flammable materials not covered by the Grenfell legislation?

    Or the people paying 4 x the service charges they were paying when they bought the property, charges that are utterly uncapped and prevent them selling the property? (even Dubai has recently introduced a system to prevent this).

    Or people who were pressured by salespeople into using the builder's chosen conveyancer who _didn't_ warn them?

    And so on. And so forth.

    There have been several excellent articles in the Times and the Guardian among other places on these subjects this year, I suggest you educate yourself.

    Most of the people affected by these various scandals are young and first time buyers, exactly the sort of people who should be voting Conservative.

    Page 29 of the Tory manifesto includes a commitment to ban the sale of new leasehold homes and restrict groundrents to a peppercorn and to provide necesssary rights of redress for tenants if you had actually bothered to read it rather than just whinge

    https://vote.conservatives.com/our-plan
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Corbyn's Christmas message is the perfect encapsulaiton of why Labour lost the election so heavily. It essentially accuses the majority of voters of not being as kind and as compasionate as he is, while failing to acknowledge any kind of Christmas joy and portraying the UK as a land of unremitting misery. He is, as he has done since he became leader, talking at the electorate, rather than to it.

    Until Labour understands that peope and the world are complex, that you can be opposed to public services cuts and homelessness, while also aspiring to a better life for you and your family and enjoying Christmas even though not everyone does (for example), it has no hope of winning power.

    I have not seen Johnson's message - and will do my very best to avoid it - but I bet it is diametrically opposed in tone and spirit to Cobyn's/ And I know which one most people will relate to better.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1209379431124353024

    The sooner Corbyn clears off to his allotment the better everyone will be and I know it is Christmas
    G, Hopefully Johnson will be marooned in Mustique and we will have seen the back of him, that would be doing the country a service
    I don't think you will get rid of him that easily Malc. Another 10 years beckons at the rate the opposition are collapsing

    Anyway, have a great Christmas and a guid New Year
    Same to you Big G, had a bad start so far, got flu , had coughing fit and stupidly stood up, passed out and went down like a brick , smashed my face badly , spent all Sunday in A & E. At home recovering. Only good thing is having not eaten for day is may lose a bit of weight. Onwards and upwards.
    Have to say NHS were exemplary if a bit slow, tested me for everything to be sure what had caused it etc.
    That is terrible Malc and at this time of year. Look after yourself and grow stronger day by day. All the very best to you
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    More shamefully it seems Cummings and BoJo have decided to not give Ken Clarke a peerage.

    That would be a mistake. He deserves one far more than many others
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361
    Best Wishes to everyone for Christmas
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    HYUFD said:


    Page 29 of the Tory manifesto includes a commitment to ban the sale of new leasehold homes and restrict groundrents to a peppercorn and to provide necesssary rights of redress for tenants if you had actually bothered to read it rather than just whinge

    https://vote.conservatives.com/our-plan

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:



    People who didnt listen to their conveyance solicitors advice and warnings.

    And what of people trapped in flats they can't sell that are clad in flammable materials not covered by the Grenfell legislation?

    Or the people paying 4 x the service charges they were paying when they bought the property, charges that are utterly uncapped and prevent them selling the property? (even Dubai has recently introduced a system to prevent this).

    Or people who were pressured by salespeople into using the builder's chosen conveyancer who _didn't_ warn them?

    And so on. And so forth.

    There have been several excellent articles in the Times and the Guardian among other places on these subjects this year, I suggest you educate yourself.

    Most of the people affected by these various scandals are young and first time buyers, exactly the sort of people who should be voting Conservative.

    Page 29 of the Tory manifesto includes a commitment to ban the sale of new leasehold homes and restrict groundrents to a peppercorn and to provide necesssary rights of redress for tenants if you had actually bothered to read it rather than just whinge

    https://vote.conservatives.com/our-plan
    This does not affect existing owners of leasehold properties nor does it affect leasehold flats which, as far as I'm aware, will continue to be sold (Scotland has abolished them in favour of commonhold).

    There are an estimated 2.9 million leasehold flats and 1.4 million leasehold houses in England, with the total amounting to almost a fifth of the English housing stock. So thin gruel for 4.3m households.

    There already exist mechanisms for redress for unfair charges etc for leaseholders via the leasehold valuation tribunal but these are widely considered toothless. It remains to be seen whether stronger protection for leaseholders will actually happen.

    I would at the very least implement a system such as they have in Dubai:

    https://gulfnews.com/business/property/dubai-developers-no-longer-allowed-to-collect-service-charges-from-property-owners-1.67909284

    For what it's worth, Sir Peter Bottomley is one of the most tireless campaigners on the subject. And he is hardly a Corbynite.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533



    I'm told my mother is very unlikely to last the year out. Been talking to undertakers about preliminary arrangements this morning. Not something I've ever had to deal with before. I also have a foul hacking cough and cold - can't risk taking that to the home she's in. So I've probably seen her for the last time.

    It's beginning to look a lot like a shit Christmas.....

    That's awful, Mark - all best wishes.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    Bercow is an irritant, period. He had no mind for precedent except when it suited him. Deny Bercow his platform - he may be a short term shouty man to replace that prat outside HoP but that's B's level.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    Charles said:

    More shamefully it seems Cummings and BoJo have decided to not give Ken Clarke a peerage.

    That would be a mistake. He deserves one far more than many others
    Amen to that.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    alterego said:

    Charles said:

    More shamefully it seems Cummings and BoJo have decided to not give Ken Clarke a peerage.

    That would be a mistake. He deserves one far more than many others
    Amen to that.
    +1 a thousand times over
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729



    I'm told my mother is very unlikely to last the year out. Been talking to undertakers about preliminary arrangements this morning. Not something I've ever had to deal with before. I also have a foul hacking cough and cold - can't risk taking that to the home she's in. So I've probably seen her for the last time.

    It's beginning to look a lot like a shit Christmas.....

    That's awful, Mark - all best wishes.
    Commiserations MM

    My mother in law is not at all well.. she may see the new yr in but...
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    FF43 said:

    .

    nunu2 said:

    Just amazing in the difference between Tory fortunes in Greater Manchester vs. Merseyside.

    People in Greater Manchester have jobs.
    Labour is the party of the working class, if your definition of "working class" is people that actually work and pay taxes etc. The Tories are the party of welfare claimants, in particular a group of highly entitled welfare claimants: pensioners.
    Lol - well put!
    Hmm.. seems you are not learning the lessons of the GE. Labour like to THINK they are the party of the working classes, but its no longer true.. the red wall is collapsing.


  • I'm told my mother is very unlikely to last the year out. Been talking to undertakers about preliminary arrangements this morning. Not something I've ever had to deal with before. I also have a foul hacking cough and cold - can't risk taking that to the home she's in. So I've probably seen her for the last time.

    It's beginning to look a lot like a shit Christmas.....

    That's awful, Mark - all best wishes.
    Commiserations MM

    My mother in law is not at all well.. she may see the new yr in but...
    Commisserations, and sincere best for Christmas and the New Year.
  • viewcode said:

    Quick question: I'm writing an article for year-end about PB births, deaths, job changes and illnesses. I know about @twistedfirestopper3 wife, @ExiledInScotland brother, and @Casino_Royale 's baby. I know there was a stabbing, somebody left job to do a law degree, and several others are very ill. Can anybody enlighten me as to who they are, please?

    I'm told my mother is very unlikely to last the year out. Been talking to undertakers about preliminary arrangements this morning. Not something I've ever had to deal with before. I also have a foul hacking cough and cold - can't risk taking that to the home she's in. So I've probably seen her for the last time.

    It's beginning to look a lot like a shit Christmas.....
    Sorry to hear it, was in a more or less identical situation 2 years ago. Even now I can't really imagine what words might have been of comfort.
  • Thanks all for the kind words.

    We can fight like cats and dog here over politics, but it never ceases to amaze that people who have mostly never met can have a great capacity for empathy for their fellow posters. It is truly a wonderful feature of this site. In many ways it emobodies the spirit of goodwill at Christmas, all year round.

    Anyway, enough of this schmaltz. I have winter fuel to gather.....

    Good luck Mark, Happy Christmas, and soldier on.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729



    I'm told my mother is very unlikely to last the year out. Been talking to undertakers about preliminary arrangements this morning. Not something I've ever had to deal with before. I also have a foul hacking cough and cold - can't risk taking that to the home she's in. So I've probably seen her for the last time.

    It's beginning to look a lot like a shit Christmas.....

    That's awful, Mark - all best wishes.
    Commiserations MM

    My mother in law is not at all well.. she may see the new yr in but...
    Commisserations, and sincere best for Christmas and the New Year.
    Thanks, its awful for anyone in this situation .. people have to endure this sadness all the time. I lost my first wife on Remembrance Sunday 2012, a date I can never forget.... I am lucky to have been of an age where I was blessed with a second chance.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited December 2019
    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:


    Page 29 of the Tory manifesto includes a commitment to ban the sale e

    https://vote.conservatives.com/our-plan

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:



    People who didnt listen to their conveyance solicitors advice and warnings.

    And what of people trapped in flats they can't sell that are ative.

    Page 29 of the Tory manifesto includes a commitment to ban the sale of new leasehold homes and restrict groundrents to a peppercorn and to provide necesssary rights of redress for tenants if you had actually bothered to read it rather than just whinge

    https://vote.conservatives.com/our-plan
    This does not affect existing owners of leasehold properties nor does it affect leasehold flats which, as far as I'm aware, will continue to be sold (Scotland has abolished them in favour of commonhold).

    There are an estimated 2.9 million leasehold flats and 1.4 million leasehold houses in England, with the total amounting to almost a fifth of the English housing stock. So thin gruel for 4.3m households.

    There already exist mechanisms for redress for unfair charges etc for leaseholders via the leasehold valuation tribunal but these are widely considered toothless. It remains to be seen whether stronger protection for leaseholders will actually happen.

    I would at the very least implement a system such as they have in Dubai:

    https://gulfnews.com/business/property/dubai-developers-no-longer-allowed-to-collect-service-charges-from-property-owners-1.67909284

    For what it's worth, Sir Peter Bottomley is one of the most tireless campaigners on the subject. And he is hardly a Corbynite.
    Of course it resolves the issue of leasehold housing going forward as it will be prohibited, those in existing leasehold houses can try and buy the freehold after 2 years.

    As for leasehold flats, flats have always been almost entirely sold leasehold with few problems for generations. However there already is the mechanism of collective enfranchisement in England and Wales if enough flat tenants agree to buy the freehold of the building from the estate management company but even Scottish style commonhold does not mean you actually are freeholder of the whole apartment block, you own your own flat only but share ownership of shared areas of the block collectively with other flat owners and are still responsible for their maintenance and associated costs with them.

    So in effect you still pay a service charge, just as part if a collective rather than to a management company, though I agree further measures could be taken to ensure service charges are not excessive for leaseholders
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    edited December 2019
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    del.

    del.
    del.
    Not really, given most renters already vote Labour anyway and the vast majority of over 65s own their own property
    Even if tenants comprise 'only' 40% of pensioners in 2045, that's a ticking timebomb. House prices up in past 10-15 years, vs real wages, means more people becoming resigned to the fact that they'll rent for the rest of their life (45 years possibly).

    They'll be paying market rents, unless Harold Macmillan comes back from the grave with a housing policy that doesn't stigmatise public sector tenants versus owner-occupiers. Governments then sought to build more homes of both types of tenure and achieved an amazing rate of 400,000 per year, pre- the near-total 'bonfire of the regulations'.
    Why is it a ticking time bomb, if 60% of voters still own that will largely be the same as now and the Tories have just won a majority of 80 which will go up to a landslide majority of 102 once the boundary changes go through? As I have pointed out by 34 most people own a property and by 65 an even higher percentage will do.

    Plus new builds are up to 170 000 a year now, their highest rate for 11 years and that is with less land to build on than Macmillan had and despite NIMBYs protesting against building on the green belt
    https://www.propertywire.com/news/uk/number-of-new-homes-built-reached-an-11-year-high/
    I don't usually cite this paper as a source but nevertheless it's probably an indication of the problem ...

    https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/property/686161/Number-pensioners-renting-soared-220-000-last-four-years
    And the vast majority of pensioners still own and many of those who do rent in old age as the article says have merely decided to downsize rather than take out another mortgage
    The percent of over-65s renting is however growing, meaning a rise in the government's housing benefit liability.

    Blimey, do you get paid for this barrage of Tory propaganda?

    It's like Pravda, but from the right not the 'left'.

    Thanks to unregulated (anti-)social media, most voters in the general elections of 2024 and 2028/29 won't have a clue whether people like you or the other side are telling the truth or not. That's the most worrying thing and was why the government itself eventually had to set up bodies like the OBR, no-one trusted Ministers of the Crown any more.

    Ed. Block quotes went wrong, sorry.
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,138
    HYUFD said:


    As for leasehold flats, flats have always been almost entirely sold leasehold with few problems for generations. However there already is the mechanism of collective enfranchisement in England and Wales if enough flat tenants agree to buy the freehold of the building from the estate management company

    I went through the process of collective enfranchisement for the building I owned a flat in some years back (the freeholder was doing basically emergency-maintenance only). It was a multi-year stressful nightmare of a process and not cheap either, though we did get it done in the end -- the freeholder is obliged to sell but they're not obliged to make it easy. I sold the flat not long after; personally my conclusion was that I'm never buying leasehold again.
  • THE POLITICALLY CORRECT LIBTARDS HAVE NOW BANNED THE GREATEST LIVING ENGLISHMAN FROM USING THE WORD CHRISTMAS

    https://twitter.com/officialKeef/status/1209486296613347329?s=20
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    The OBR was set up to show that the Govt was responsible (and that Labour was not).
  • Meanwhile, the same people who tell us that it would be utterly unacceptable for Oliver Letwin to get a peerage will no doubt be entirely chill with Steve Baker and Mark Francois being ennobled when the time comes. It wouldn't even occur to them that Jacob Rees-Mogg might be a controversial appointment.

    I'd prefer to see those three out of parliament altogether and for the same underlying reason that Letwin should be denied a peerage ie they are all posturing idiots.

    Ken Clarke on the other hand does deserve a peerage.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    Charles said:

    More shamefully it seems Cummings and BoJo have decided to not give Ken Clarke a peerage.

    That would be a mistake. He deserves one far more than many others
    I agree, but I suspect Cummings & co correctly think he'd be a nuisance to them in the Lords. Their record is one of ruthless removal of critics (ironically very unlike Corbyn and Momentum, who were routinely accused of it but IIRC never actually deselected anyone). If he was doddery and incapable I'm sure they'd be happy to elevate him.

    The problem with removing critics is that it's akin to taking the canary out of the coalmine - you have nobody to warn you when you're getting into trouble.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    viewcode said:

    Quick question: I'm writing an article for year-end about PB births, deaths, job changes and illnesses. I know about @twistedfirestopper3 wife, @ExiledInScotland brother, and @Casino_Royale 's baby. I know there was a stabbing, somebody left job to do a law degree, and several others are very ill. Can anybody enlighten me as to who they are, please?

    I'm told my mother is very unlikely to last the year out. Been talking to undertakers about preliminary arrangements this morning. Not something I've ever had to deal with before. I also have a foul hacking cough and cold - can't risk taking that to the home she's in. So I've probably seen her for the last time.

    It's beginning to look a lot like a shit Christmas.....
    So sorry to hear that, best wishes to your family at what must be a very difficult time.

    Sadly my wife lost her mother last month, there are many people for whom Christmas won’t be the usual celebration in 2019.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited December 2019
    pm215 said:

    HYUFD said:


    As for leasehold flats, flats have always been almost entirely sold leasehold with few problems for generations. However there already is the mechanism of collective enfranchisement in England and Wales if enough flat tenants agree to buy the freehold of the building from the estate management company

    I went through the process of collective enfranchisement for the building I owned a flat in some years back (the freeholder was doing basically emergency-maintenance only). It was a multi-year stressful nightmare of a process and not cheap either, though we did get it done in the end -- the freeholder is obliged to sell but they're not obliged to make it easy. I sold the flat not long after; personally my conclusion was that I'm never buying leasehold again.
    Presumably though you then sold as collective freeholder effectively, albeit with a collective service charge too, rather than as leaseholder?

    It does demonstrate that flats, unlike houses, when bought will always have to have additional charges added on as you are buying as part of a block with separate property owners owning separate units but with shared areas requiring shared maintenance whether you buy as a leaseholder, buy via collective enfranchisement or via commonhold. Houses by contrast can always be brought by you as the sole freeholder of the whole property
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106

    Boris has to be careful here. Bercow is the Leavers' ultimate bogeyman, surpassing even Grieve, Soubry and Gina Miller. Boris is lord of all he surveys at present, but if the politics start to chill the peasants will be at his throat in a jiffy if he looks to be creeping back to the old ways and dishing out baubles to the liberal elite. Boris's bedrock doesn't consist of gentleman players who are impressed by abiding by the rules. I suspect Dom understands this and will guide Boris accordingly.

    Bercow is now irrelevant as anything other than an object of ridicule when humiliating himself on Italian television.

    Best forgotten, along with Soubry, Miller and Grieve, in the interests of national healing.

    They are already a footnote in political history.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited December 2019
    SunnyJim said:

    Boris has to be careful here. Bercow is the Leavers' ultimate bogeyman, surpassing even Grieve, Soubry and Gina Miller. Boris is lord of all he surveys at present, but if the politics start to chill the peasants will be at his throat in a jiffy if he looks to be creeping back to the old ways and dishing out baubles to the liberal elite. Boris's bedrock doesn't consist of gentleman players who are impressed by abiding by the rules. I suspect Dom understands this and will guide Boris accordingly.

    Bercow is now irrelevant as anything other than an object of ridicule when humiliating himself on Italian television.

    Best forgotten, along with Soubry, Miller and Grieve, in the interests of national healing.

    They are already a footnote in political history.
    What exactly do you plan to do with the more than half of the population that still thinks Brexit is a mistake?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    Charles said:

    More shamefully it seems Cummings and BoJo have decided to not give Ken Clarke a peerage.

    That would be a mistake. He deserves one far more than many others
    I agree, but I suspect Cummings & co correctly think he'd be a nuisance to them in the Lords. Their record is one of ruthless removal of critics (ironically very unlike Corbyn and Momentum, who were routinely accused of it but IIRC never actually deselected anyone). If he was doddery and incapable I'm sure they'd be happy to elevate him.

    The problem with removing critics is that it's akin to taking the canary out of the coalmine - you have nobody to warn you when you're getting into trouble.
    For sure NP, Corbyn's shadow cabinet 2019 were full of critics.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,212

    SunnyJim said:

    Boris has to be careful here. Bercow is the Leavers' ultimate bogeyman, surpassing even Grieve, Soubry and Gina Miller. Boris is lord of all he surveys at present, but if the politics start to chill the peasants will be at his throat in a jiffy if he looks to be creeping back to the old ways and dishing out baubles to the liberal elite. Boris's bedrock doesn't consist of gentleman players who are impressed by abiding by the rules. I suspect Dom understands this and will guide Boris accordingly.

    Bercow is now irrelevant as anything other than an object of ridicule when humiliating himself on Italian television.

    Best forgotten, along with Soubry, Miller and Grieve, in the interests of national healing.

    They are already a footnote in political history.
    What exactly do you plan to do with the more than half of the population that still thinks Brexit is a mistake?
    The theoretical question changes shortly though from remain to rejoin.
  • Pulpstar said:

    SunnyJim said:

    Boris has to be careful here. Bercow is the Leavers' ultimate bogeyman, surpassing even Grieve, Soubry and Gina Miller. Boris is lord of all he surveys at present, but if the politics start to chill the peasants will be at his throat in a jiffy if he looks to be creeping back to the old ways and dishing out baubles to the liberal elite. Boris's bedrock doesn't consist of gentleman players who are impressed by abiding by the rules. I suspect Dom understands this and will guide Boris accordingly.

    Bercow is now irrelevant as anything other than an object of ridicule when humiliating himself on Italian television.

    Best forgotten, along with Soubry, Miller and Grieve, in the interests of national healing.

    They are already a footnote in political history.
    What exactly do you plan to do with the more than half of the population that still thinks Brexit is a mistake?
    The theoretical question changes shortly though from remain to rejoin.
    Indeed. Do you think the majority of sceptics will become more or less enamoured with Brexit if it coincides with the country languishing still further in economic doldrums?
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106


    What exactly do you plan to do with the more than half of the population that still thinks Brexit is a mistake?

    I'm not sure I see the relevance of your question.

    The behaviour of Bercow, Letwin, Grieve, Soubry etc has been discussed to death and I find it difficult to believe that there will be much support among decent people for elevating any of them to the HoL.

    Ken Clarke on the other hand played a straight bat all through the process and his integrity and standing was actually enhanced in my view. He would be a popular choice on all sides.

    Equally Nigel Farage fully deserves a peerage for his outstanding contribution to UK politics over the last couple of decades. He would be a hugely popular.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381
    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:


    Page 29 of the Tory manifesto includes a commitment to ban the sale of new leasehold homes and restrict groundrents to a peppercorn and to provide necesssary rights of redress for tenants if you had actually bothered to read it rather than just whinge

    https://vote.conservatives.com/our-plan

    HYUFD said:

    kyf_100 said:



    People who didnt listen to their conveyance solicitors advice and warnings.

    And what of people trapped in flats they can't sell that are clad in flammable materials not covered by the Grenfell legislation?

    Or the people paying 4 x the service charges they were paying when they bought the property, charges that are utterly uncapped and prevent them selling the property? (even Dubai has recently introduced a system to prevent this).

    Or people who were pressured by salespeople into using the builder's chosen conveyancer who _didn't_ warn them?

    And so on. And so forth.

    There have been several excellent articles in the Times and the Guardian among other places on these subjects this year, I suggest you educate yourself.

    Most of the people affected by these various scandals are young and first time buyers, exactly the sort of people who should be voting Conservative.

    Page 29 of the Tory manifesto includes a commitment to ban the sale of new leasehold homes and restrict groundrents to a peppercorn and to provide necesssary rights of redress for tenants if you had actually bothered to read it rather than just whinge

    https://vote.conservatives.com/our-plan
    This does not affect existing owners of leasehold properties nor does it affect leasehold flats which, as far as I'm aware, will continue to be sold (Scotland has abolished them in favour of commonhold).

    There are an estimated 2.9 million leasehold flats and 1.4 million leasehold houses in England, with the total amounting to almost a fifth of the English housing stock. So thin gruel for 4.3m households.

    There already exist mechanisms for redress for unfair charges etc for leaseholders via the leasehold valuation tribunal but these are widely considered toothless. It remains to be seen whether stronger protection for leaseholders will actually happen.

    I would at the very least implement a system such as they have in Dubai:

    https://gulfnews.com/business/property/dubai-developers-no-longer-allowed-to-collect-service-charges-from-property-owners-1.67909284

    For what it's worth, Sir Peter Bottomley is one of the most tireless campaigners on the subject. And he is hardly a Corbynite.
    When you buy a leasehold flat, though, you know (or ought to know) what you're getting into. Generally, it is best to enfranchise.
  • SunnyJim said:


    What exactly do you plan to do with the more than half of the population that still thinks Brexit is a mistake?

    I'm not sure I see the relevance of your question.

    The behaviour of Bercow, Letwin, Grieve, Soubry etc has been discussed to death and I find it difficult to believe that there will be much support among decent people for elevating any of them to the HoL.

    Ken Clarke on the other hand played a straight bat all through the process and his integrity and standing was actually enhanced in my view. He would be a popular choice on all sides.

    Equally Nigel Farage fully deserves a peerage for his outstanding contribution to UK politics over the last couple of decades. He would be a hugely popular.
    You might find the opinions of decent people vary. Nigel Farage is a strikingly unpopular politician. That he has adoring acolytes does not alter this.

    Decent people would want to see the most considerable Speaker of our lifetimes in the House of Lords. Only crazed zealots would imagine that the country’s reviewing chamber would not benefit from his presence.

    As already noted, Oliver Letwin is a good litmus test for spotting the most demented Leavers. He has behaved with striking integrity throughout. (That is of course what infuriates those demented Leavers.)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381

    I think Boris should consider Caroline Flint. Long service in the House and Govt, prepared to compromise. I think she would work hard in the Lords and not just take the cash and refreshments.

    I have no doubt Boris should recognise her
    True to form, Leavers can’t name someone outside the circle of trust they’d be prepared to see given a peerage. A politician prepared to vote for a no deal Brexit doesn’t count.

    Well, I would say that Kenneth Clarke does merit a peerage.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    Zero, the Tories won a landslide majority of 80, which will be 102 post boundary changes, to get Brexit done and AC Grayling will finally have to accept defeat
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,138
    HYUFD said:


    Presumably though you then sold as collective freeholder effectively, albeit with a collective service charge too, rather than as leaseholder?

    I sold it as leasehold, with an extended-to-999-years lease, plus share of the freehold (but at a loss overall from having bought it 10 years prior).

    Entirely agreed that flats must necessarily have some kind of shared responsibility for repair and maintenance of the building, with accompanying difficulties of collective action, decision-making and funding. (I would not choose to buy a non-leasehold flat either.) Leasehold adds its own problems on top of that though when it brings in a third-party freeholder whose only concern is making a profit and who legally has practically the entire say in how much or how little work is done on the building.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106


    You might find the opinions of decent people vary. Nigel Farage is a strikingly unpopular politician. That he has adoring acolytes does not alter this.

    Decent people would want to see the most considerable Speaker of our lifetimes in the House of Lords. Only crazed zealots would imagine that the country’s reviewing chamber would not benefit from his presence.

    As already noted, Oliver Letwin is a good litmus test for spotting the most demented Leavers. He has behaved with striking integrity throughout. (That is of course what infuriates those demented Leavers.)

    I think you might find Oliver Letwin is hugely popular with leavers, in the same way Hilary Benn is.

    I'd elevate both with good cheer.
  • Merry Christmas PBers!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited December 2019
    pm215 said:

    HYUFD said:


    Presumably though you then sold as collective freeholder effectively, albeit with a collective service charge too, rather than as leaseholder?

    I sold it as leasehold, with an extended-to-999-years lease, plus share of the freehold (but at a loss overall from having bought it 10 years prior).

    Entirely agreed that flats must necessarily have some kind of shared responsibility for repair and maintenance of the building, with accompanying difficulties of collective action, decision-making and funding. (I would not choose to buy a non-leasehold flat either.) Leasehold adds its own problems on top of that though when it brings in a third-party freeholder whose only concern is making a profit and who legally has practically the entire say in how much or how little work is done on the building.
    Though that also depends on what the other commonholders think is necessary in terms of repair, in some cases it may even be easier to force repairs of 1 management company slow to perform repairs than other common holders who have little interest in paying for management and repairs.

    I am also curious quite how you managed to sell at a loss having extended the lease and got a share of the freehold unless it was sold at the time of the 2008 crash
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TOPPING said:

    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Quick question: I'm writing an article for year-end about PB births, deaths, job changes and illnesses. I know about @twistedfirestopper3 wife, @ExiledInScotland brother, and @Casino_Royale 's baby. I know there was a stabbing, somebody left job to do a law degree, and several others are very ill. Can anybody enlighten me as to who they are, please?

    It is @Gallowgate doing the law conversion course.
    Yes plus don't forget one other of us is also doing a conversion of a more personal nature.
    Haven’t seen her around for a while - is she ok?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    SunnyJim said:


    You might find the opinions of decent people vary. Nigel Farage is a strikingly unpopular politician. That he has adoring acolytes does not alter this.

    Decent people would want to see the most considerable Speaker of our lifetimes in the House of Lords. Only crazed zealots would imagine that the country’s reviewing chamber would not benefit from his presence.

    As already noted, Oliver Letwin is a good litmus test for spotting the most demented Leavers. He has behaved with striking integrity throughout. (That is of course what infuriates those demented Leavers.)

    I think you might find Oliver Letwin is hugely popular with leavers, in the same way Hilary Benn is.

    I'd elevate both with good cheer.
    God bless the Benn Act. I remember describing it as the greatest piece of legislation ever seen when it was introduced.

    Pretty sure I did....
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,138
    HYUFD said:


    I am also curious quite how you managed to sell at a loss having extended the lease and got a share of the freehold unless it was sold at the time of the 2008 crash

    Bought 2001, put on market 2012, sold 2013, with great difficulty shifting it because the common areas were still in a terrible state and made an awful impression on people coming to view it. I see from the rightmove records that the buyer sold it on in 2015 for 50% more than they paid me for it, so it looks like they got the better of that.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,053



    Indeed. Do you think the majority of sceptics will become more or less enamoured with Brexit if it coincides with the country languishing still further in economic doldrums?

    The nature of economic analysis is that it will take a decade at least before it becomes clear if you're right about the country's economic performance after leaving the EU, and even then there will be plenty of reasons to argue about it.

    There are no control experiments in macroeconomics.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Meanwhile, the same people who tell us that it would be utterly unacceptable for Oliver Letwin to get a peerage will no doubt be entirely chill with Steve Baker and Mark Francois being ennobled when the time comes. It wouldn't even occur to them that Jacob Rees-Mogg might be a controversial appointment.

    None of those three deserve a peerage. Letwin possibly a knighthood.

    Clarke has earned one.

    Bercow should get one. I’m not entirely comfortable with him getting it while the bullying allegations hang over his head but On balance I think the PM should just do it. The office is more important than the man.

    None of Grieve, Gauke etc deserve one. If they had been loyal members of the party they would have been very suitable “working peers”. But there is no reason why their government should appoint them to that status given the manner of their departure.

    If I have forgotten anyone else then it’s an omission nothing else
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    pm215 said:

    HYUFD said:


    I am also curious quite how you managed to sell at a loss having extended the lease and got a share of the freehold unless it was sold at the time of the 2008 crash

    Bought 2001, put on market 2012, sold 2013, with great difficulty shifting it because the common areas were still in a terrible state and made an awful impression on people coming to view it. I see from the rightmove records that the buyer sold it on in 2015 for 50% more than they paid me for it, so it looks like they got the better of that.
    Thanks, useful for future reference and yes emphasises the importance of ensuring common areas are kept in a good state
  • Fishing said:



    Indeed. Do you think the majority of sceptics will become more or less enamoured with Brexit if it coincides with the country languishing still further in economic doldrums?

    The nature of economic analysis is that it will take a decade at least before it becomes clear if you're right about the country's economic performance after leaving the EU, and even then there will be plenty of reasons to argue about it.

    There are no control experiments in macroeconomics.
    Don't forget that Alastair is quite the economic sage and was the first to spot the post referendum recession:

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/

    Happy Christmas to all PBers.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    I object to Bercow's peerage until a full and independent investigation into bullying in the HOC has been completed and published

    No other reason

    Gone are the days when oppressing the peasants entitled a place in the Lords.
    I'm not too sure about that... :(
    I’m neither in the Lords nor busy oppressing anyone. Does that reassure you?
  • kle4 said:
    He's an 'intellectual'.

    And a hate filled bigot.

    IIRC Jolyon Maugham was strongly against taking that line.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,053

    Fishing said:



    Indeed. Do you think the majority of sceptics will become more or less enamoured with Brexit if it coincides with the country languishing still further in economic doldrums?

    The nature of economic analysis is that it will take a decade at least before it becomes clear if you're right about the country's economic performance after leaving the EU, and even then there will be plenty of reasons to argue about it.

    There are no control experiments in macroeconomics.
    Don't forget that Alastair is quite the economic sage and was the first to spot the post referendum recession:

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/

    Happy Christmas to all PBers.
    It was also interesting to read on that page David H's rather better prediction of an SDP mark 2.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    Carols from Kings just started on BBC2, Christmas officially underway
  • Fishing said:

    Fishing said:



    Indeed. Do you think the majority of sceptics will become more or less enamoured with Brexit if it coincides with the country languishing still further in economic doldrums?

    The nature of economic analysis is that it will take a decade at least before it becomes clear if you're right about the country's economic performance after leaving the EU, and even then there will be plenty of reasons to argue about it.

    There are no control experiments in macroeconomics.
    Don't forget that Alastair is quite the economic sage and was the first to spot the post referendum recession:

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/

    Happy Christmas to all PBers.
    It was also interesting to read on that page David H's rather better prediction of an SDP mark 2.
    What we saw in 2019 with TIG was what would likely have happened to the SDP if the Alliance with Liberals hadn't immediately happened in 1981.
  • SunnyJim said:

    Boris has to be careful here. Bercow is the Leavers' ultimate bogeyman, surpassing even Grieve, Soubry and Gina Miller. Boris is lord of all he surveys at present, but if the politics start to chill the peasants will be at his throat in a jiffy if he looks to be creeping back to the old ways and dishing out baubles to the liberal elite. Boris's bedrock doesn't consist of gentleman players who are impressed by abiding by the rules. I suspect Dom understands this and will guide Boris accordingly.

    Bercow is now irrelevant as anything other than an object of ridicule when humiliating himself on Italian television.

    Best forgotten, along with Soubry, Miller and Grieve, in the interests of national healing.

    They are already a footnote in political history.
    What exactly do you plan to do with the more than half of the population that still thinks Brexit is a mistake?
    Absolutely nothing.

    Nothing should be "done with" them.

    Brexit should be done and hopefully the fewer than half who voted against in the referendum realise it's ok and it becomes our new normal.

    If in 4-5 years time the fewer than half who were against Brexit want to reverse course they can vote for that. Boris should try and ensure Brexit works for everyone. It's as simple as that.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,775

    kle4 said:
    He's an 'intellectual'.

    And a hate filled bigot.

    IIRC Jolyon Maugham was strongly against taking that line.
    Cliffs all over the country should have a special express lane available should Jolyon Maugham ever wish to use them.

  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,710
    It's unthinkable that Ken Clarke wouldn't get a Peerage - other than Prime Ministers he's surely just about the most eminent politician of recent decades.

    Of course recent PMs haven't taken Peerages but Ken must get one if he wants it.
  • Bercow absolutely should get a peerage if an inquiry into the bullying allegations clears him and not before. The inquiry should have started a year or so ago so his retirement shouldn't trump that.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,710
    I haven't seen any comment on the fact that Yvette Cooper is now 4th favourite for Lab leader at 16.

    Presumably this suggests she is seriously considering running.

    Bad news for RLB if she does - just imagine a 4 way TV debate between RLB, Starmer, Nandy and Cooper. RLB would get shown up very badly indeed.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Marf can pretty much recycle this one for 2019 (although Boris's Hanukkah greetings might make the good news bubble!)

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2018/12/31/as-2018-comes-to-an-end-marfs-cartoon-of-the-year/
  • Omnium said:

    kle4 said:
    He's an 'intellectual'.

    And a hate filled bigot.

    IIRC Jolyon Maugham was strongly against taking that line.
    Cliffs all over the country should have a special express lane available should Jolyon Maugham ever wish to use them.

    Aren’t you the charmer?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,212
    MikeL said:

    I haven't seen any comment on the fact that Yvette Cooper is now 4th favourite for Lab leader at 16.

    Presumably this suggests she is seriously considering running.

    Bad news for RLB if she does - just imagine a 4 way TV debate between RLB, Starmer, Nandy and Cooper. RLB would get shown up very badly indeed.

    I wouldn't take it as writ that Cooper will run. For a start she has a big defence job on in her seat next time round. Lots of Brexit votes there for Tories to go after.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,212
    edited December 2019
    Coopers price has been weirdly short all through the last few years

    Topically I'm just passing by Ferrybridge Power station right now
  • Pulpstar said:

    MikeL said:

    I haven't seen any comment on the fact that Yvette Cooper is now 4th favourite for Lab leader at 16.

    Presumably this suggests she is seriously considering running.

    Bad news for RLB if she does - just imagine a 4 way TV debate between RLB, Starmer, Nandy and Cooper. RLB would get shown up very badly indeed.

    I wouldn't take it as writ that Cooper will run. For a start she has a big defence job on in her seat next time round. Lots of Brexit votes there for Tories to go after.
    By then Brexit could be such an economic disaster, that no one in the North will be looking to support Johnson.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    MikeL said:

    I haven't seen any comment on the fact that Yvette Cooper is now 4th favourite for Lab leader at 16.

    Presumably this suggests she is seriously considering running.

    Bad news for RLB if she does - just imagine a 4 way TV debate between RLB, Starmer, Nandy and Cooper. RLB would get shown up very badly indeed.

    If you are left leaning you're going for RBL.

    If you're on the centre/right of the party you'd surely opt for Starmer.

    I've seen lots of posts of support for both these candidates but next to none for YC so i'm struggling to see where her support will come from.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    Omnium said:

    kle4 said:
    He's an 'intellectual'.

    And a hate filled bigot.

    IIRC Jolyon Maugham was strongly against taking that line.
    Cliffs all over the country should have a special express lane available should Jolyon Maugham ever wish to use them.

    I think sectioning would be more humane ........ No, sod it, cliffs it is.
  • Fishing said:



    Indeed. Do you think the majority of sceptics will become more or less enamoured with Brexit if it coincides with the country languishing still further in economic doldrums?

    The nature of economic analysis is that it will take a decade at least before it becomes clear if you're right about the country's economic performance after leaving the EU, and even then there will be plenty of reasons to argue about it.

    There are no control experiments in macroeconomics.
    Don't forget that Alastair is quite the economic sage and was the first to spot the post referendum recession:

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/

    Happy Christmas to all PBers.
    As always I’m touched you pay such close attention to my words. Happy Christmas to you also.
  • alteregoalterego Posts: 1,100
    MikeL said:

    I haven't seen any comment on the fact that Yvette Cooper is now 4th favourite for Lab leader at 16.

    Presumably this suggests she is seriously considering running.

    Bad news for RLB if she does - just imagine a 4 way TV debate between RLB, Starmer, Nandy and Cooper. RLB would get shown up very badly indeed.

    Do side-shows get a TV debate?
This discussion has been closed.