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  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361

    I've just heard the BBC report that Sturgeon thinks the Scottish people should determine whether there is another Indyref, rather than Westminister. Isn't that a referendum to decide whether to have a referendum? The only way out of that is to have another referendum.

    By voting for independence supporting political parties at elections you absolutely stupid bell end.
  • Perhaps not the best suggestion, given New Labour's penchant for wars.

    How many bloody wars did New Labour fight -- I lost count in the end.

    As we saw in Kosovo the other month, some of them were a success.

    With £ 35 billion pissed up the wall in Afghanistan & Iraq for nothing,zilch.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    She swears a lot in a Northern accent, which seems to lead posh people to think she is working class

    She IS working class.
    Is she bollocks. Her father was a teacher and her mother was deputy chair of the NHS confederation. Shes middle class.

    I would say that she is, but that she comes from a working class family. My Dad ended up an engineer, my Mum a social worker. They both left school at 15 with three O levels between them and when I was a kid my Dad fixed lifts on a night shift and my Mum worked in a pub. I got free school meals. Then in the late 1970s my Mum went to college and qualified as a social worker, while my Dad went on various courses and ended up where he did. I was born into the working ckass and grew up in a working class family, but there is no way any of us could be described as working class now.

    I have seen nothing to suggest her family was at any stage of her life working class or engaged in working class employment, her education was an all girls grammar. Nothing about her life says working class to me.

    I went to an all boy's grammar school. I don't think that tells you anything. Her parents were clearly from working class families, but did well for themselves. If they brought her up to feel and believe she was working class, then that's how she sees herself. I don't have a huge problem with it, though I do think it's strange that so many people on the left find it so hard to admit that they and their families may have changed class.

    How do we know her parents were clearly from working class families? All I know is what wiki says
    SO is all seeing.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Got to love the corrupt press campaigning for Boris Johnson.
    - Sophie Ridge (laugh and giggle) - Tory
    - Laura Kuennsburg BBC Chief Political Correspondent - Tory Unionist
    - Tom Bradby ITV - Tory
    - Nick Ferrari LBC - Tory
    - Nick Robinson (debate moderator BBC) Tory
    - Iain Dale LBC Tory
    - Chuck in the billionaire tax avoiding press barons hitmen - daily mail, sun , times, Sunday times, mail on Sunday, daily express, su day express, the star, Sunday star telegraph, Sunday telegraph and this is why we have Boris Johnson

    Simple question I want answer to
    How many children do you have Boris?

    Why does that question matter? His unsuitability for the job would exist even if he had no children, or 15 . It distracts from his political unsuitability.
    We know the corrupt media...bbc, Amy news, LBC and the billionaire tax avoiding press baron hitmen would be asking a labour politician this question without hesitation.

    Any smear the whole Tory press core run with it.

    Don't you see the corrupt media everywhere..
    Sophie ridge is supposed to be interviewing Boris Johnson and her corrupt Tory soul just can't help itself by having a laugh and giggle.
    Who in the BBC decided to have a life long Tory member Nick Robinson moderate the debate on Friday?
    Who in the BBC decided to have a diehard Tory Unionist Laura to follow and interview Boris Johnson???

    The new online progressive media is right..dark money is destroying our democracy and people across media are not holding Boris Johnson to account.
    Can you give a specific example of bias in Robinson's moderation on Friday?
    Lol seriously..how many times did nick Robinson repeat Boris johnson s talking point with direct questioning forcing corbyn to answer. I read on twitter nick asked corbyn 9 time smears Johnson made and called corbyn out twice on falsehoods. Robinson only questioned Johnson three times and didn't call out any falsehoods.

    Yet Boris Johnson repeatedly lied and nick robinson did nothing
    Johnson said there will be 50k nurses..not true
    Johnson said we will get brexit done if elected..not true the law was passed and nobody was stopping that law from passed he chose an election.
    Johnson said there will be 20000 more police again not true.
    Johnson said there would be 40_new hospitals again not true.

    Its an absolute scandal that we have press core that is not holding Boris to account
    'I read on Twitter'; I think your problem starts there.
  • isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    She swears a lot in a Northern accent, which seems to lead posh people to think she is working class

    She IS working class.
    Is she bollocks. Her father was a teacher and her mother was deputy chair of the NHS confederation. Shes middle class.

    I would say that she is, but that she comes from a working class family. My Dad ended up an engineer, my Mum a social worker. They both left school at 15 with three O levels between them and when I was a kid my Dad fixed lifts on a night shift and my Mum worked in a pub. I got free school meals. Then in the late 1970s my Mum went to college and qualified as a social worker, while my Dad went on various courses and ended up where he did. I was born into the working ckass and grew up in a working class family, but there is no way any of us could be described as working class now.

    I have seen nothing to suggest her family was at any stage of her life working class or engaged in working class employment, her education was an all girls grammar. Nothing about her life says working class to me.

    I went to an all boy's grammar school. I don't think that tells you anything. Her parents were clearly from working class families, but did well for themselves. If they brought her up to feel and believe she was working class, then that's how she sees herself. I don't have a huge problem with it, though I do think it's strange that so many people on the left find it so hard to admit that they and their families may have changed class.

    How do we know her parents were clearly from working class families? All I know is what wiki says

    It's possible all this is lies, but I am inclined to believe it as it was a pretty common story in terms of direction of travel for the baby boomer generation, if not ending ...

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/dad-birmingham-jess-phillips-mp-15977286

  • DeClareDeClare Posts: 483

    DeClare said:

    Andy_JS said:
    I've been looking at the weather forecast for Thursday, it's going to pour with rain all day, in the South-East at any rate.
    This will probably reduce turnout among youngsters more than it will among older people who are more likely to run a car and more likely to vote by post.
    A lot of working age people will get home from work, take a look at the weather and not be arsed.
    There should be more than a day to vote, and one of the days should be a weekend day.
    There are some people who reckon that evening rain in the London area swung the 2016 referendum, they thought that leave voters were more likely to vote earlier in the day when it was still dry.
    That was in the Summer, if that theory is true, it will be even more pronounced in the Winter I would have thought.
    Evening rain in the South-East on Thursday could be bad news for the Lib/Dems and for Labour in a few places too but if it's all day it'll affect turnout across the board.
    It's not forecast to be raining as much in Scotland on Thursday.
  • I've just heard the BBC report that Sturgeon thinks the Scottish people should determine whether there is another Indyref, rather than Westminister. Isn't that a referendum to decide whether to have a referendum? The only way out of that is to have another referendum.

    When she says 'the Scottish people should decide' she means 'Nicola Sturgeon will decide'.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Got to love the corrupt press campaigning for Boris Johnson.
    - Sophie Ridge (laugh and giggle) - Tory
    - Laura Kuennsburg BBC Chief Political Correspondent - Tory Unionist
    - Tom Bradby ITV - Tory
    - Nick Ferrari LBC - Tory
    - Nick Robinson (debate moderator BBC) Tory
    - Iain Dale LBC Tory
    - Chuck in the billionaire tax avoiding press barons hitmen - daily mail, sun , times, Sunday times, mail on Sunday, daily express, su day express, the star, Sunday star telegraph, Sunday telegraph and this is why we have Boris Johnson

    Simple question I want answer to
    How many children do you have Boris?

    Why does that question matter? His unsuitability for the job would exist even if he had no children, or 15 . It distracts from his political unsuitability.
    We know the corrupt media...bbc, Amy news, LBC and the billionaire tax avoiding press baron hitmen would be asking a labour politician this question without hesitation.

    Any smear the whole Tory press core run with it.

    Don't you see the corrupt media everywhere..
    Sophie ridge is supposed to be interviewing Boris Johnson and her corrupt Tory soul just can't help itself by having a laugh and giggle.
    Who in the BBC decided to have a life long Tory member Nick Robinson moderate the debate on Friday?
    Who in the BBC decided to have a diehard Tory Unionist Laura to follow and interview Boris Johnson???

    The new online progressive media is right..dark money is destroying our democracy and people across media are not holding Boris Johnson to account.
    Can you give a specific example of bias in Robinson's moderation on Friday?
    Another known liar, he lied through his teeth about Salmond. A biased creep.
    Bit early to be hitting the turnip juice, isn't it? :p
    BBC are just a state propaganda unit.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    alb1on said:

    Charles said:

    alb1on said:

    Charles said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Johnson has just said on Ridge that the 'naughtiest thing he's prepared to admit to is riding his bicycle
    on the pavment'.

    Is that one of those change at Baker Street/ascending the OXO tower type euphemisms?
    He said he sometimes mounted without descending

    Someone with a dirtier mind than mine might construe a double entendre
    A natural consequence of watching the Benny Hill tribute act that is Boris.
    I know you’re a LibDem activist so that makes it hard but please try not to be so po-faced and relentlessly political the whole time
    I think that it is those (like you) who cannot poke fun at our leaders who are being po-faced. Lighten up. And I am not a LD activist (although I wil vote for them). Indeed, as I have said many times, I used to vote for Andrew Tyrie when I lived in Chichester - because he was an outstanding MP. I assume you are a party troll who cannot get his mind around the idea of quality v party. :)
    I was poking fun... you responded with an attack on Boris. All your comments are aggressively pro LibDem assertions with little statistical backing

    I voted conservative but am not a member of the party. And on the record as to my views of Boris’s quality... even in this thread I posted that I don’t like him
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695


    Just a minute:

    Tory government 1979-1997:
    Falklands War (1982)
    Gulf War (1990–91)
    Bosnian War (1992–96)

    Labour 1997-2010:
    Operation Desert Fox (1998)
    Kosovo War (1999)
    Sierra Leone Civil War (2000)
    War in Afghanistan (2001–Ongoing)
    Iraq War (2003–11)
    Somali Civil War (2009–present)

    Tories again 2010 on:
    War in Afghanistan (2001–Ongoing)
    Somali Civil War (2009–present)
    Boko Haram insurgency (2012–Ongoing)
    Northern Mali conflict (2013–Ongoing)
    Military intervention against ISIS (2014–Ongoing)
    Libyan Civil War (2011)
    Syrian Civil War (2018)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_United_Kingdom#20th_century

    (i) I would remove the Falklands War. Whatever the rights/wrongs of the UK colony of the Falklands, it is clear that the Falklands were actually invaded (by a fascist general). That is, the decision to take military action was taken in Buenos Airies rather than Westminster.

    (ii) You also seem to be under the misapprehension that the Tories were in power from 2010, whereas the rest of us remember it being a Coalition Government from 2010-2015 in which the LibDems were partners. Perhaps this is an interesting sample of amnesia/confirmation bias?

    Once you have made those corrections, I think it would be interesting to know how many UK soldiers were lost, and how many foreign casualties were caused by UK troops in the various interventions.
    (i) If you're going to claim a war is not a war if the other side started it pretty much all can be struck off the list.

    (ii) Apologies, I should remember that any credit for 2010-2015 goes to the Tories, all the blame goes to the LibDems.
  • I've just heard the BBC report that Sturgeon thinks the Scottish people should determine whether there is another Indyref, rather than Westminister. Isn't that a referendum to decide whether to have a referendum? The only way out of that is to have another referendum.

    Any referendum can only be considered after Holyrood 2021

    That Holyrood election will provide a mandate or otherwise to request a referendum and HMG will need to consider it carefully

    It is interesting to note that in the latest Scots opinion poll SNP = 39% Pro Union = 60%

    Food for thought there
  • Was
    malcolmg said:


    BBC are just a state propaganda unit.

    Exactly. Not a Tory propaganda unit. The establishment. The state. They literally back whomever happens to be the pro Establishment party of the time. Sometimes thats been Labour. Sometimes Tory. It gets denounced endlessly by both sides showing that largely it does its job properly.

    An example. YOU'RE BIASED screech the Corbyn rampers at Andrew Neil. Until he empty chairs Johnson.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Got to love the corrupt press campaigning for Boris Johnson.
    - Sophie Ridge (laugh and giggle) - Tory
    - Laura Kuennsburg BBC Chief Political Correspondent - Tory Unionist
    - Tom Bradby ITV - Tory
    - Nick Ferrari LBC - Tory
    - Nick Robinson (debate moderator BBC) Tory
    - Iain Dale LBC Tory
    - Chuck in the billionaire tax avoiding press barons hitmen - daily mail, sun , times, Sunday times, mail on Sunday, daily express, su day express, the star, Sunday star telegraph, Sunday telegraph and this is why we have Boris Johnson

    Simple question I want answer to
    How many children do you have Boris?

    Why does that question matter? His unsuitability for the job would exist even if he had no children, or 15 . It distracts from his political unsuitability.
    We know the corrupt media...bbc, Amy news, LBC and the billionaire tax avoiding press baron hitmen would be asking a labour politician this question without hesitation.

    Any smear the whole Tory press core run with it.

    Don't you see the corrupt media everywhere..
    Sophie ridge is supposed to be interviewing Boris Johnson and her corrupt Tory soul just can't help itself by having a laugh and giggle.
    Who in the BBC decided to have a life long Tory member Nick Robinson moderate the debate on Friday?
    Who in the BBC decided to have a diehard Tory Unionist Laura to follow and interview Boris Johnson???

    The new online progressive media is right..dark money is destroying our democracy and people across media are not holding Boris Johnson to account.
    Can you give a specific example of bias in Robinson's moderation on Friday?
    Lol seriously..how many times did nick Robinson repeat Boris johnson s talking point with direct questioning forcing corbyn to answer. I read on twitter nick asked corbyn 9 time smears Johnson made and called corbyn out twice on falsehoods. Robinson only questioned Johnson three times and didn't call out any falsehoods.

    Yet Boris Johnson repeatedly lied and nick robinson did nothing
    Johnson said there will be 50k nurses..not true
    Johnson said we will get brexit done if elected..not true the law was passed and nobody was stopping that law from passed he chose an election.
    Johnson said there will be 20000 more police again not true.
    Johnson said there would be 40_new hospitals again not true.

    Its an absolute scandal that we have press core that is not holding Boris to account
    You have escaped from Cluedo. I suspected as much.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited December 2019
    <<I wouldn't be surprised if Corbyn isn't very popular among the younger members of staff, but those in positions of authority, they liked New Labour because it was left of centre on social issues without wanting to tax them into the ground, get rid of private schools, etc i.e. fits with their general world view as described by Andrew Marr.>>

    The key members of staff in BBC News nowadays are very far from being Corbynites, however. Tony Hall, the ex-Birtist, sets the tone, and recent former heads of BBC News like James Harding, former editor of the Times, have set the more recent parameters.

    Of all the current big figures of BBC Radio for instance, almost all have some right-leaning connection, very unlike the 1990s or 80's. Sarah Montague is a friend of David Cameron, Evan Davis was a Tory adviser on public services in the early 1990's, Nick Robinson was a student Conservative in the admittedly distant past, and John Humprys celebrated his retirement by penning a screed for the Daily Mail about the BBC supposedly still having a liberal bias. Over on TV, Andew Neil was famously a Thatcherite and Murdoch protege.

    Those of a more left-leaning background, such as Robert Peston and Paul Mason, have recently seemed to disappear.

    The only prominent current exception among BBC journalsts I can think of on the BBC is Andrew Marr, with a leftwing then pro-New Labour past.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361
    TudorRose said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Got to love the corrupt press campaigning for Boris Johnson.
    - Sophie Ridge (laugh and giggle) - Tory
    - Laura Kuennsburg BBC Chief Political Correspondent - Tory Unionist
    - Tom Bradby ITV - Tory
    - Nick Ferrari LBC - Tory
    - Nick Robinson (debate moderator BBC) Tory
    - Iain Dale LBC Tory
    - Chuck in the billionaire tax avoiding press barons hitmen - daily mail, sun , times, Sunday times, mail on Sunday, daily express, su day express, the star, Sunday star telegraph, Sunday telegraph and this is why we have Boris Johnson

    Simple question I want answer to
    How many children do you have Boris?

    Why does that question matter? His unsuitability for the job would exist even if he had no children, or 15 . It distracts from his political unsuitability.
    We know the corrupt media...bbc, Amy news, LBC and the billionaire tax avoiding press baron hitmen would be asking a labour politician this question without hesitation.

    Any smear the whole Tory press core run with it.

    Don't you see the corrupt media everywhere..
    Sophie ridge is supposed to be interviewing Boris Johnson and her corrupt Tory soul just can't help itself by having a laugh and giggle.
    Who in the BBC decided to have a life long Tory member Nick Robinson moderate the debate on Friday?
    Who in the BBC decided to have a diehard Tory Unionist Laura to follow and interview Boris Johnson???

    The new online progressive media is right..dark money is destroying our democracy and people across media are not holding Boris Johnson to account.
    Can you give a specific example of bias in Robinson's moderation on Friday?
    Lol seriously..how many times did nick Robinson repeat Boris johnson s talking point with direct questioning forcing corbyn to answer. I read on twitter nick asked corbyn 9 time smears Johnson made and called corbyn out twice on falsehoods. Robinson only questioned Johnson three times and didn't call out any falsehoods.

    Yet Boris Johnson repeatedly lied and nick robinson did nothing
    Johnson said there will be 50k nurses..not true
    Johnson said we will get brexit done if elected..not true the law was passed and nobody was stopping that law from passed he chose an election.
    Johnson said there will be 20000 more police again not true.
    Johnson said there would be 40_new hospitals again not true.

    Its an absolute scandal that we have press core that is not holding Boris to account
    'I read on Twitter'; I think your problem starts there.
    You think BBC propaganda is more reliable than Twitter, " can I interest you in a Bridge Sir ".
  • kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    She swears a lot in a Northern accent, which seems to lead posh people to think she is working class

    She IS working class.
    Is she bollocks. Her father was a teacher and her mother was deputy chair of the NHS confederation. Shes middle class.

    Then in the late 1970s my Mum went to college and qualified as a social worker, while my Dad went on various courses and ended up where he did. I was born into the working ckass and grew up in a working class family, but there is no way any of us could be described as working class now.
    Social mobility under Thatcher....
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    malcolmg said:

    I've just heard the BBC report that Sturgeon thinks the Scottish people should determine whether there is another Indyref, rather than Westminister. Isn't that a referendum to decide whether to have a referendum? The only way out of that is to have another referendum.

    By voting for independence supporting political parties at elections you absolutely stupid bell end.
    Do you have two wrong sides to your bed?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited December 2019
    malcolmg said:

    TudorRose said:



    'I read on Twitter'; I think your problem starts there.

    You think BBC propaganda is more reliable than Twitter, " can I interest you in a Bridge Sir ".
    If someone is going to make claims that a program is biased, don't you think it is a requirement to have actually watched it first?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    She swears a lot in a Northern accent, which seems to lead posh people to think she is working class

    She IS working class.
    Is she bollocks. Her father was a teacher and her mother was deputy chair of the NHS confederation. Shes middle class.

    I would say that she is, but that she comes from a working class family. My Dad ended up an engineer, my Mum a social worker. They both left school at 15 with three O levels between them and when I was a kid my Dad fixed lifts on a night shift and my Mum worked in a pub. I got free school meals. Then in the late 1970s my Mum went to college and qualified as a social worker, while my Dad went on various courses and ended up where he did. I was born into the working ckass and grew up in a working class family, but there is no way any of us could be described as working class now.

    I have seen nothing to suggest her family was at any stage of her life working class or engaged in working class employment, her education was an all girls grammar. Nothing about her life says working class to me.

    I went to an all boy's grammar school. I don't think that tells you anything. Her parents were clearly from working class families, but did well for themselves. If they brought her up to feel and believe she was working class, then that's how she sees herself. I don't have a huge problem with it, though I do think it's strange that so many people on the left find it so hard to admit that they and their families may have changed class.

    How do we know her parents were clearly from working class families? All I know is what wiki says

    It's possible all this is lies, but I am inclined to believe it as it was a pretty common story in terms of direction of travel for the baby boomer generation, if not ending ...

    https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/dad-birmingham-jess-phillips-mp-15977286

    Council house upbringing seems a pretty genuine stamp of being working class in that generation
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    Perhaps not the best suggestion, given New Labour's penchant for wars.

    How many bloody wars did New Labour fight -- I lost count in the end.

    As we saw in Kosovo the other month, some of them were a success.

    With £ 35 billion pissed up the wall in Afghanistan & Iraq for nothing,zilch.
    We do have very well trained major trauma surgeons.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361

    I've just heard the BBC report that Sturgeon thinks the Scottish people should determine whether there is another Indyref, rather than Westminister. Isn't that a referendum to decide whether to have a referendum? The only way out of that is to have another referendum.

    Any referendum can only be considered after Holyrood 2021

    That Holyrood election will provide a mandate or otherwise to request a referendum and HMG will need to consider it carefully

    It is interesting to note that in the latest Scots opinion poll SNP = 39% Pro Union = 60%

    Food for thought there
    Holyrood already has a majority for independence, why would it need two confirmations from the public for us to be "allowed" a democratic vote G.
  • kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What does a non-authentic human being look like?

    Blond, messy hair, prone to fat, little piggy eyes, shirt hanging out?
    CCHQ is making a feature of Boris's trademark dishevelled look. Trademark because he tousles his hair before appearing on camera, and he could easily afford suits and shirts that properly fit. Boris's photo ops this election invariably show him mucking in with the workers, with protective clothing or jacket off and sleeves rolled up (but not neatly).

    It is clearly a deliberate tactic, and one that runs counter to the Cameron's mum advice taken by Corbyn and previous prime ministers (and Donald Trump, who always looks immaculate). It will be interesting after the election to read a 75,000-word blog post from Dominic Cummings explaining the rationale.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    I've just heard the BBC report that Sturgeon thinks the Scottish people should determine whether there is another Indyref, rather than Westminister. Isn't that a referendum to decide whether to have a referendum? The only way out of that is to have another referendum.

    When she says 'the Scottish people should decide' she means 'Nicola Sturgeon will decide'.
    To be fair, doesn't she just mean that she views every Holyrood election as a proxy for whether there should be another referendum? SNP majority (with or without Green support) equals "the Scottish people want another referendum".

    Unclear if it's in their best interests for them to be so obviously a single issue party, but there we are.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361

    malcolmg said:

    I've just heard the BBC report that Sturgeon thinks the Scottish people should determine whether there is another Indyref, rather than Westminister. Isn't that a referendum to decide whether to have a referendum? The only way out of that is to have another referendum.

    By voting for independence supporting political parties at elections you absolutely stupid bell end.
    Do you have two wrong sides to your bed?
    Nice one :D made me laugh.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    DeClare said:

    DeClare said:

    Andy_JS said:
    I've been looking at the weather forecast for Thursday, it's going to pour with rain all day, in the South-East at any rate.
    This will probably reduce turnout among youngsters more than it will among older people who are more likely to run a car and more likely to vote by post.
    A lot of working age people will get home from work, take a look at the weather and not be arsed.
    There should be more than a day to vote, and one of the days should be a weekend day.
    There are some people who reckon that evening rain in the London area swung the 2016 referendum, they thought that leave voters were more likely to vote earlier in the day when it was still dry.
    That was in the Summer, if that theory is true, it will be even more pronounced in the Winter I would have thought.
    Evening rain in the South-East on Thursday could be bad news for the Lib/Dems and for Labour in a few places too but if it's all day it'll affect turnout across the board.
    It's not forecast to be raining as much in Scotland on Thursday.
    Do you work in the Met Office?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361

    Perhaps not the best suggestion, given New Labour's penchant for wars.

    How many bloody wars did New Labour fight -- I lost count in the end.

    As we saw in Kosovo the other month, some of them were a success.

    With £ 35 billion pissed up the wall in Afghanistan & Iraq for nothing,zilch.
    We do have very well trained major trauma surgeons.
    Been a lot cheaper to just send them to get work experience in US hospitals.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    malcolmg said:

    I've just heard the BBC report that Sturgeon thinks the Scottish people should determine whether there is another Indyref, rather than Westminister. Isn't that a referendum to decide whether to have a referendum? The only way out of that is to have another referendum.

    By voting for independence supporting political parties at elections you absolutely stupid bell end.
    Do you have two wrong sides to your bed?
    He's even worse when he has a duvet day.....
  • melcfmelcf Posts: 166
    DeClare said:

    DeClare said:

    Andy_JS said:
    I've been looking at the weather forecast for Thursday, it's going to pour with rain all day, in the South-East at any rate.
    This will probably reduce turnout among youngsters more than it will among older people who are more likely to run a car and more likely to vote by post.
    A lot of working age people will get home from work, take a look at the weather and not be arsed.
    There should be more than a day to vote, and one of the days should be a weekend day.
    There are some people who reckon that evening rain in the London area swung the 2016 referendum, they thought that leave voters were more likely to vote earlier in the day when it was still dry.
    That was in the Summer, if that theory is true, it will be even more pronounced in the Winter I would have thought.
    Evening rain in the South-East on Thursday could be bad news for the Lib/Dems and for Labour in a few places too but if it's all day it'll affect turnout across the board.
    It's not forecast to be raining as much in Scotland on Thursday.
    The cold winter weather, specially in the North, will affect the Tories more. Specially the elderly and those with mobility issues. Postal voting is still at 20-25% of the total.
    Even a 2-5% difference can be crucial there
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361
    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    TudorRose said:



    'I read on Twitter'; I think your problem starts there.

    You think BBC propaganda is more reliable than Twitter, " can I interest you in a Bridge Sir ".
    If someone is going to make claims that a program is biased, don't you think it is a requirement to have actually watched it first?
    Rob, If done by BBC you know it will be biased to the Tories, no need to watch it.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    I've just heard the BBC report that Sturgeon thinks the Scottish people should determine whether there is another Indyref, rather than Westminister. Isn't that a referendum to decide whether to have a referendum? The only way out of that is to have another referendum.

    Any referendum can only be considered after Holyrood 2021

    That Holyrood election will provide a mandate or otherwise to request a referendum and HMG will need to consider it carefully

    It is interesting to note that in the latest Scots opinion poll SNP = 39% Pro Union = 60%

    Food for thought there
    I think you should get out more.
  • malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    TudorRose said:



    'I read on Twitter'; I think your problem starts there.

    You think BBC propaganda is more reliable than Twitter, " can I interest you in a Bridge Sir ".
    If someone is going to make claims that a program is biased, don't you think it is a requirement to have actually watched it first?
    Rob, If done by BBC you know it will be biased to the Tories, no need to watch it.
    Yes Toenails Robinson is such a Tory 🙄

    Anything short of a PPB for the SNP is biased to you.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:

    America and Murdoch will watching the election very closely - Johnson\Corbyn could be Trump\Sanders in November 2020.

    Only difference is that the sanders progressive wing have an active media voice that holds Trump to account and won't tolerate lies (trump has a lie tracker over 15000). The UK press across print, radio and television have been utterly shameless in their bias at getting Johnson elected. The BBC needs a massive clear out.. To many diehard Tories in senior positions.

    The cool thing about Corbyn is he somehow manages to combine the worst traits of both Trump and Sanders. Or at least his followers do - I wonder sometimes if Corbyn is aware of some of the more egregious output from the likes of Bastani.
    You clearly have never met any trump or sanders supporters.

    Trump supporters are basically like Boris Johnson - support racism, homophobia, dividing people and blaming everything on immigrants or people of colour.
    The officially preferred term is "people of talent". It's a recent change, so I'll forgive you this time, but please do be aware that the word "colour" is now very offensive to right wing snowflakes like what I am.
  • malcolmg said:

    I've just heard the BBC report that Sturgeon thinks the Scottish people should determine whether there is another Indyref, rather than Westminister. Isn't that a referendum to decide whether to have a referendum? The only way out of that is to have another referendum.

    Any referendum can only be considered after Holyrood 2021

    That Holyrood election will provide a mandate or otherwise to request a referendum and HMG will need to consider it carefully

    It is interesting to note that in the latest Scots opinion poll SNP = 39% Pro Union = 60%

    Food for thought there
    Holyrood already has a majority for independence, why would it need two confirmations from the public for us to be "allowed" a democratic vote G.
    Like it or not Malc HMG will not grant an independence referendum before Holyrood 2021 election

    Also the pro union parties beat SNP 2 to 1 in latest poll
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    She swears a lot in a Northern accent, which seems to lead posh people to think she is working class

    She IS working class.
    Is she bollocks. Her father was a teacher and her mother was deputy chair of the NHS confederation. Shes middle class.

    Then in the late 1970s my Mum went to college and qualified as a social worker, while my Dad went on various courses and ended up where he did. I was born into the working ckass and grew up in a working class family, but there is no way any of us could be described as working class now.
    Social mobility under Thatcher....
    LOL, yes the end of it as we see nowadays, with Tory Rachman's coining it in from all the ex social housing they have snapped up at bargain basement prices.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    TudorRose said:



    'I read on Twitter'; I think your problem starts there.

    You think BBC propaganda is more reliable than Twitter, " can I interest you in a Bridge Sir ".
    If someone is going to make claims that a program is biased, don't you think it is a requirement to have actually watched it first?
    Rob, If done by BBC you know it will be biased to the Tories, no need to watch it.
    Interesting - how will you ever know if it is not actually biased?
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Got to love the corrupt press campaigning for Boris Johnson.
    - Sophie Ridge (laugh and giggle) - Tory
    - Laura Kuennsburg BBC Chief Political Correspondent - Tory Unionist
    - Tom Bradby ITV - Tory
    - Nick Ferrari LBC - Tory
    - Nick Robinson (debate moderator BBC) Tory
    - Iain Dale LBC Tory
    - Chuck in the billionaire tax avoiding press barons hitmen - daily mail, sun , times, Sunday times, mail on Sunday, daily express, su day express, the star, Sunday star telegraph, Sunday telegraph and this is why we have Boris Johnson

    Simple question I want answer to
    How many children do you have Boris?

    Why does that question matter? His unsuitability for the job would exist even if he had no children, or 15 . It distracts from his political unsuitability.
    We know the corrupt media...bbc, Amy news, LBC and the billionaire tax avoiding press baron hitmen would be asking a labour politician this question without hesitation.

    Any smear the whole Tory press core run with it.

    Don't you see the corrupt media everywhere..
    Sophie ridge is supposed to be interviewing Boris Johnson and her corrupt Tory soul just can't help itself by having a laugh and giggle.
    Who in the BBC decided to have a life long Tory member Nick Robinson moderate the debate on Friday?
    Who in the BBC decided to have a diehard Tory Unionist Laura to follow and interview Boris Johnson???

    The new online progressive media is right..dark money is destroying our democracy and people across media are not holding Boris Johnson to account.
    You read on twitter. So you didn't actually watch it then?
    So you want me to sit through the debate again and watch the number of times nick Robinson questions corbyn to Johnson. Fine.

    You should wear 'I vote Tory' sticker so all your workers know whose voting Tory.

    The language Boris Johnson uses to describe single women,people of colour, people of different religions, people of different sexuality is totally unacceptable in the workplace and would be sackable offence. No employer would go near him..so why is it acceptable for his language to be accepted in politics???

    Because the tory media do it everyday and make racism, homophobia, xenophobia acceptable.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    melcf said:

    DeClare said:

    DeClare said:

    Andy_JS said:
    I've been looking at the weather forecast for Thursday, it's going to pour with rain all day, in the South-East at any rate.
    This will probably reduce turnout among youngsters more than it will among older people who are more likely to run a car and more likely to vote by post.
    A lot of working age people will get home from work, take a look at the weather and not be arsed.
    There should be more than a day to vote, and one of the days should be a weekend day.
    There are some people who reckon that evening rain in the London area swung the 2016 referendum, they thought that leave voters were more likely to vote earlier in the day when it was still dry.
    That was in the Summer, if that theory is true, it will be even more pronounced in the Winter I would have thought.
    Evening rain in the South-East on Thursday could be bad news for the Lib/Dems and for Labour in a few places too but if it's all day it'll affect turnout across the board.
    It's not forecast to be raining as much in Scotland on Thursday.
    The cold winter weather, specially in the North, will affect the Tories more. Specially the elderly and those with mobility issues. Postal voting is still at 20-25% of the total.
    Even a 2-5% difference can be crucial there
    The blue rinse brigade will be out in force no matter what the weather.
  • kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    She swears a lot in a Northern accent, which seems to lead posh people to think she is working class

    She IS working class.
    Is she bollocks. Her father was a teacher and her mother was deputy chair of the NHS confederation. Shes middle class.

    Then in the late 1970s my Mum went to college and qualified as a social worker, while my Dad went on various courses and ended up where he did. I was born into the working ckass and grew up in a working class family, but there is no way any of us could be described as working class now.
    Social mobility under Thatcher....

    It was pre-Thatcher, just. But as I have said here on many occasions I also benefited hugely from the changes she pioneered and the fact that she left large parts of the welfare state intact. I have been a very lucky boy to have been born where I was, to who I was and at the time I was!

  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Jonathan said:



    A warning.

    From History.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited December 2019



    So you want me to sit through the debate again and watch the number of times nick Robinson questions corbyn to Johnson. Fine.

    You should wear 'I vote Tory' sticker so all your workers know whose voting Tory.

    The language Boris Johnson uses to describe single women,people of colour, people of different religions, people of different sexuality is totally unacceptable in the workplace and would be sackable offence. No employer would go near him..so why is it acceptable for his language to be accepted in politics???

    Because the tory media do it everyday and make racism, homophobia, xenophobia acceptable.

    Again? You've already admitted you didn't watch it the first time.

    And a badge to indicate I voted Tory? I wonder where you got that idea from.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Got to love the corrupt press campaigning for Boris Johnson.
    - Sophie Ridge (laugh and giggle) - Tory
    - Laura Kuennsburg BBC Chief Political Correspondent - Tory Unionist
    - Tom Bradby ITV - Tory
    - Nick Ferrari LBC - Tory
    - Nick Robinson (debate moderator BBC) Tory
    - Iain Dale LBC Tory
    - Chuck in the billionaire tax avoiding press barons hitmen - daily mail, sun , times, Sunday times, mail on Sunday, daily express, su day express, the star, Sunday star telegraph, Sunday telegraph and this is why we have Boris Johnson

    Simple question I want answer to
    How many children do you have Boris?

    Why does that question matter? His unsuitability for the job would exist even if he had no children, or 15 . It distracts from his political unsuitability.
    We know the corrupt media...bbc, Amy news, LBC and the billionaire tax avoiding press baron hitmen would be asking a labour politician this question without hesitation.

    Any smear the whole Tory press core run with it.

    Don't you see the corrupt media everywhere..
    Sophie ridge is supposed to be interviewing Boris Johnson and her corrupt Tory soul just can't help itself by having a laugh and giggle.
    Who in the BBC decided to have a life long Tory member Nick Robinson moderate the debate on Friday?
    Who in the BBC decided to have a diehard Tory Unionist Laura to follow and interview Boris Johnson???

    The new online progressive media is right..dark money is destroying our democracy and people across media are not holding Boris Johnson to account.
    Can you give a specific example of bias in Robinson's moderation on Friday?
    Another known liar, he lied through his teeth about Salmond. A biased creep.
    Bit early to be hitting the turnip juice, isn't it? :p
    BBC are just a state propaganda unit.
    The BBC are just a BBC propoganda unit.

    Scientists have discovered that the geographical centre of the universe is Broadcasting House. (I heard that on the BBC.)
  • I've just heard the BBC report that Sturgeon thinks the Scottish people should determine whether there is another Indyref, rather than Westminister. Isn't that a referendum to decide whether to have a referendum? The only way out of that is to have another referendum.

    Any referendum can only be considered after Holyrood 2021

    That Holyrood election will provide a mandate or otherwise to request a referendum and HMG will need to consider it carefully

    It is interesting to note that in the latest Scots opinion poll SNP = 39% Pro Union = 60%

    Food for thought there
    I think you should get out more.
    I suspect I know more about politics in Scotland but if you can debunk the latest poll on Scotland please do so
  • alb1onalb1on Posts: 698
    Charles said:

    alb1on said:

    Charles said:

    alb1on said:

    Charles said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Johnson has just said on Ridge that the 'naughtiest thing he's prepared to admit to is riding his bicycle
    on the pavment'.

    Is that one of those change at Baker Street/ascending the OXO tower type euphemisms?
    He said he sometimes mounted without descending

    Someone with a dirtier mind than mine might construe a double entendre
    A natural consequence of watching the Benny Hill tribute act that is Boris.
    I know you’re a LibDem activist so that makes it hard but please try not to be so po-faced and relentlessly political the whole time
    I think that it is those (like you) who cannot poke fun at our leaders who are being po-faced. Lighten up. And I am not a LD activist (although I wil vote for them). Indeed, as I have said many times, I used to vote for Andrew Tyrie when I lived in Chichester - because he was an outstanding MP. I assume you are a party troll who cannot get his mind around the idea of quality v party. :)
    I was poking fun... you responded with an attack on Boris. All your comments are aggressively pro LibDem assertions with little statistical backing

    I voted conservative but am not a member of the party. And on the record as to my views of Boris’s quality... even in this thread I posted that I don’t like him
    Most of my posts about the LDs are to do with Surrey seats (where I live) or Winchester (where I used to live). Hence I do have some local knowledge. And in respect of Guildford, which I comment on most often, my point is that it is not easily amenable to statistical analysis due to the extreme local factors.
    You seem to have a problem with views you dislike. That is almost a definition of po-faced.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361

    Was

    malcolmg said:


    BBC are just a state propaganda unit.

    Exactly. Not a Tory propaganda unit. The establishment. The state. They literally back whomever happens to be the pro Establishment party of the time. Sometimes thats been Labour. Sometimes Tory. It gets denounced endlessly by both sides showing that largely it does its job properly.

    An example. YOU'RE BIASED screech the Corbyn rampers at Andrew Neil. Until he empty chairs Johnson.
    It is currently TORY and it is stuffed full of them, not an unbiased one that I could name. Their reporting is dire and blatant.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,944
    edited December 2019

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    TudorRose said:



    'I read on Twitter'; I think your problem starts there.

    You think BBC propaganda is more reliable than Twitter, " can I interest you in a Bridge Sir ".
    If someone is going to make claims that a program is biased, don't you think it is a requirement to have actually watched it first?
    Rob, If done by BBC you know it will be biased to the Tories, no need to watch it.
    Yes Toenails Robinson is such a Tory 🙄

    Anything short of a PPB for the SNP is biased to you.
    Nick Robinson was president of the Conservatives at Oxford, then worked for the party after graduating. Don't fall for the toenails spin.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What does a non-authentic human being look like?

    Blond, messy hair, prone to fat, little piggy eyes, shirt hanging out?
    CCHQ is making a feature of Boris's trademark dishevelled look. Trademark because he tousles his hair before appearing on camera, and he could easily afford suits and shirts that properly fit. Boris's photo ops this election invariably show him mucking in with the workers, with protective clothing or jacket off and sleeves rolled up (but not neatly).

    It is clearly a deliberate tactic, and one that runs counter to the Cameron's mum advice taken by Corbyn and previous prime ministers (and Donald Trump, who always looks immaculate). It will be interesting after the election to read a 75,000-word blog post from Dominic Cummings explaining the rationale.
    Not so sure about "interesting".
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    God those new mince meat pies from M&S are good.

    Just saying.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    TudorRose said:



    'I read on Twitter'; I think your problem starts there.

    You think BBC propaganda is more reliable than Twitter, " can I interest you in a Bridge Sir ".
    If someone is going to make claims that a program is biased, don't you think it is a requirement to have actually watched it first?
    Rob, If done by BBC you know it will be biased to the Tories, no need to watch it.
    Yes Toenails Robinson is such a Tory 🙄

    Anything short of a PPB for the SNP is biased to you.
    Nick Robinson was president of the Conservatives at Oxford, then worked for the party after graduating. Don't fall for the toenails spin.
    Ed Balls was supposedly in the Young Conservatives at Uni. That makes him...?
  • argyllrsargyllrs Posts: 155
    RobD said:

    melcf said:

    DeClare said:

    DeClare said:

    Andy_JS said:
    I've been looking at the weather forecast for Thursday, it's going to pour with rain all day, in the South-East at any rate.
    This will probably reduce turnout among youngsters more than it will among older people who are more likely to run a car and more likely to vote by post.
    A lot of working age people will get home from work, take a look at the weather and not be arsed.
    There should be more than a day to vote, and one of the days should be a weekend day.
    There are some people who reckon that evening rain in the London area swung the 2016 referendum, they thought that leave voters were more likely to vote earlier in the day when it was still dry.
    That was in the Summer, if that theory is true, it will be even more pronounced in the Winter I would have thought.
    Evening rain in the South-East on Thursday could be bad news for the Lib/Dems and for Labour in a few places too but if it's all day it'll affect turnout across the board.
    It's not forecast to be raining as much in Scotland on Thursday.
    The cold winter weather, specially in the North, will affect the Tories more. Specially the elderly and those with mobility issues. Postal voting is still at 20-25% of the total.
    Even a 2-5% difference can be crucial there
    The blue rinse brigade will be out in force no matter what the weather.
    Bigger concern will be 1st time Tory votes Ex Labour. If weather is bad they wont bother to vote at all.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361

    I've just heard the BBC report that Sturgeon thinks the Scottish people should determine whether there is another Indyref, rather than Westminister. Isn't that a referendum to decide whether to have a referendum? The only way out of that is to have another referendum.

    Any referendum can only be considered after Holyrood 2021

    That Holyrood election will provide a mandate or otherwise to request a referendum and HMG will need to consider it carefully

    It is interesting to note that in the latest Scots opinion poll SNP = 39% Pro Union = 60%

    Food for thought there
    I think you should get out more.
    I suspect I know more about politics in Scotland but if you can debunk the latest poll on Scotland please do so
    Have to say G , I am at a loss as to how you arrive at everybody in Scotland who does not say they vote SNP being pro union.
    Reality is that it is about 50/50 on independence/union currently and too close to call. Will be completely different story once it is about independence and not a Westminster brexit election.
    Once we exit EU , expect a move away from union for certain.
  • DeClareDeClare Posts: 483

    DeClare said:

    DeClare said:

    Andy_JS said:
    I've been looking at the weather forecast for Thursday, it's going to pour with rain all day, in the South-East at any rate.
    This will probably reduce turnout among youngsters more than it will among older people who are more likely to run a car and more likely to vote by post.
    A lot of working age people will get home from work, take a look at the weather and not be arsed.
    There should be more than a day to vote, and one of the days should be a weekend day.
    There are some people who reckon that evening rain in the London area swung the 2016 referendum, they thought that leave voters were more likely to vote earlier in the day when it was still dry.
    That was in the Summer, if that theory is true, it will be even more pronounced in the Winter I would have thought.
    Evening rain in the South-East on Thursday could be bad news for the Lib/Dems and for Labour in a few places too but if it's all day it'll affect turnout across the board.
    It's not forecast to be raining as much in Scotland on Thursday.
    Do you work in the Met Office?
    No, just passing on information which may be useful for betting purposes.
    If there's heavy rain, it will certainly reduce turnout and activists won't be so keen to do knocking up.
    I see this affecting tactical voting and voting by EU remain supporters disproportionately, the Lib/Dems will suffer the most, in my opinion.
    I could be wrong of course,.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    RobD said:

    melcf said:

    DeClare said:

    DeClare said:

    Andy_JS said:
    I've been looking at the weather forecast for Thursday, it's going to pour with rain all day, in the South-East at any rate.
    This will probably reduce turnout among youngsters more than it will among older people who are more likely to run a car and more likely to vote by post.
    A lot of working age people will get home from work, take a look at the weather and not be arsed.
    There should be more than a day to vote, and one of the days should be a weekend day.
    There are some people who reckon that evening rain in the London area swung the 2016 referendum, they thought that leave voters were more likely to vote earlier in the day when it was still dry.
    That was in the Summer, if that theory is true, it will be even more pronounced in the Winter I would have thought.
    Evening rain in the South-East on Thursday could be bad news for the Lib/Dems and for Labour in a few places too but if it's all day it'll affect turnout across the board.
    It's not forecast to be raining as much in Scotland on Thursday.
    The cold winter weather, specially in the North, will affect the Tories more. Specially the elderly and those with mobility issues. Postal voting is still at 20-25% of the total.
    Even a 2-5% difference can be crucial there
    The blue rinse brigade will be out in force no matter what the weather.
    Colder the better for the sake of their hair?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361
    RobD said:

    melcf said:

    DeClare said:

    DeClare said:

    Andy_JS said:
    I've been looking at the weather forecast for Thursday, it's going to pour with rain all day, in the South-East at any rate.
    This will probably reduce turnout among youngsters more than it will among older people who are more likely to run a car and more likely to vote by post.
    A lot of working age people will get home from work, take a look at the weather and not be arsed.
    There should be more than a day to vote, and one of the days should be a weekend day.
    There are some people who reckon that evening rain in the London area swung the 2016 referendum, they thought that leave voters were more likely to vote earlier in the day when it was still dry.
    That was in the Summer, if that theory is true, it will be even more pronounced in the Winter I would have thought.
    Evening rain in the South-East on Thursday could be bad news for the Lib/Dems and for Labour in a few places too but if it's all day it'll affect turnout across the board.
    It's not forecast to be raining as much in Scotland on Thursday.
    The cold winter weather, specially in the North, will affect the Tories more. Specially the elderly and those with mobility issues. Postal voting is still at 20-25% of the total.
    Even a 2-5% difference can be crucial there
    The blue rinse brigade will be out in force no matter what the weather.
    Must say I had you down as a postal voter Rob, how much do those rinses sting you for.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172


    Just a minute:

    Tory government 1979-1997:
    Falklands War (1982)
    Gulf War (1990–91)
    Bosnian War (1992–96)

    Labour 1997-2010:
    Operation Desert Fox (1998)
    Kosovo War (1999)
    Sierra Leone Civil War (2000)
    War in Afghanistan (2001–Ongoing)
    Iraq War (2003–11)
    Somali Civil War (2009–present)

    Tories again 2010 on:
    War in Afghanistan (2001–Ongoing)
    Somali Civil War (2009–present)
    Boko Haram insurgency (2012–Ongoing)
    Northern Mali conflict (2013–Ongoing)
    Military intervention against ISIS (2014–Ongoing)
    Libyan Civil War (2011)
    Syrian Civil War (2018)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_the_United_Kingdom#20th_century

    (i) I would remove the Falklands War. Whatever the rights/wrongs of the UK colony of the Falklands, it is clear that the Falklands were actually invaded (by a fascist general). That is, the decision to take military action was taken in Buenos Airies rather than Westminster.

    (ii) You also seem to be under the misapprehension that the Tories were in power from 2010, whereas the rest of us remember it being a Coalition Government from 2010-2015 in which the LibDems were partners. Perhaps this is an interesting sample of amnesia/confirmation bias?

    Once you have made those corrections, I think it would be interesting to know how many UK soldiers were lost, and how many foreign casualties were caused by UK troops in the various interventions.
    (i) If you're going to claim a war is not a war if the other side started it pretty much all can be struck off the list.

    (ii) Apologies, I should remember that any credit for 2010-2015 goes to the Tories, all the blame goes to the LibDems.
    (I) Well, as regards the Falklands, if you want to side with General Galtieri, that is up to you. Every LibDem adores a Fascist, the boot in the face, the brute, brute heart of a brute like you, etc

    (ii) I think most would say the Lib Dems/Tories are jointly responsible for the Coalition. But, in your fair-enough fact-checking my assertion, you did seem to let a little bias show, I'm afraid.

  • DeClare said:

    DeClare said:

    Andy_JS said:
    I've been looking at the weather forecast for Thursday, it's going to pour with rain all day, in the South-East at any rate.
    This will probably reduce turnout among youngsters more than it will among older people who are more likely to run a car and more likely to vote by post.
    A lot of working age people will get home from work, take a look at the weather and not be arsed.
    There should be more than a day to vote, and one of the days should be a weekend day.
    There are some people who reckon that evening rain in the London area swung the 2016 referendum, they thought that leave voters were more likely to vote earlier in the day when it was still dry.
    That was in the Summer, if that theory is true, it will be even more pronounced in the Winter I would have thought.
    Evening rain in the South-East on Thursday could be bad news for the Lib/Dems and for Labour in a few places too but if it's all day it'll affect turnout across the board.
    It's not forecast to be raining as much in Scotland on Thursday.
    With a GE the weather isnt so important as its broadly the same across the constituency (yes I know some are bigger than others), whereas for a referendum the rain was very heavy in the south and especially around London. It will have had some impact but very unlikely enough to swing it, we shall never know.
  • Given the Labour collapse in the North, where will the biggest Labour majority be after Thursday? Is it likely to be in London? If so, Holborn and St Pancras might be the winner.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Haha

    This would explain why NPXMP saw so many Labour activists in Broxtowe. He thought it was because it was a marginal. In fact, it's because the local candidate is a Corbynite, with Momentum behind him

    https://labourlist.org/2017/11/momentum-delight-as-clp-picks-local-councillor-to-fight-sacked-minister-soubry/

    Aww, bless.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    RobD said:



    So you want me to sit through the debate again and watch the number of times nick Robinson questions corbyn to Johnson. Fine.

    You should wear 'I vote Tory' sticker so all your workers know whose voting Tory.

    The language Boris Johnson uses to describe single women,people of colour, people of different religions, people of different sexuality is totally unacceptable in the workplace and would be sackable offence. No employer would go near him..so why is it acceptable for his language to be accepted in politics???

    Because the tory media do it everyday and make racism, homophobia, xenophobia acceptable.

    Again? You've already admitted you didn't watch it the first time.

    And a badge to indicate I voted Tory? I wonder where you got that idea from.
    Someone else tried that with tattoos didn't they?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    TudorRose said:



    'I read on Twitter'; I think your problem starts there.

    You think BBC propaganda is more reliable than Twitter, " can I interest you in a Bridge Sir ".
    If someone is going to make claims that a program is biased, don't you think it is a requirement to have actually watched it first?
    Rob, If done by BBC you know it will be biased to the Tories, no need to watch it.
    Yes Toenails Robinson is such a Tory 🙄

    Anything short of a PPB for the SNP is biased to you.
    Nick Robinson was president of the Conservatives at Oxford, then worked for the party after graduating. Don't fall for the toenails spin.
    Ed Balls was supposedly in the Young Conservatives at Uni. That makes him...?
    .........Someone like me who saw the light and left the tories.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,814
    edited December 2019
    Finished Season 3 of The Crown.

    I thought the actors all did a good job but they didn’t get the balance right between the political history and the Windsor family melodrama, something that the first series especially did well and the second series was also pretty good at.

    They could really have explored Wilson a lot better and poor Mr Heath barely got a look in. It felt a little rushed - I suspect they can’t wait to get to the 80s and Thatcher (and on the royal side, Diana) and wanted to tie everything up before it quickly.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,864
    The underlying problem with the thesis in the thread header is that it assumes that having a group of Corbynistas come and canvass for you will be positive to your campaign. Colour me unconvinced. It may remind marginal or disillusioned voters why they are so ambivalent about voting for Labour this time around.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361

    malcolmg said:

    I've just heard the BBC report that Sturgeon thinks the Scottish people should determine whether there is another Indyref, rather than Westminister. Isn't that a referendum to decide whether to have a referendum? The only way out of that is to have another referendum.

    Any referendum can only be considered after Holyrood 2021

    That Holyrood election will provide a mandate or otherwise to request a referendum and HMG will need to consider it carefully

    It is interesting to note that in the latest Scots opinion poll SNP = 39% Pro Union = 60%

    Food for thought there
    Holyrood already has a majority for independence, why would it need two confirmations from the public for us to be "allowed" a democratic vote G.
    Like it or not Malc HMG will not grant an independence referendum before Holyrood 2021 election

    Also the pro union parties beat SNP 2 to 1 in latest poll
    You are doing a HYFUD there G and conflating different data to get the view you desire and to top it all you are using just one poll to do it.
    We will see what the courts think if the Tories try to flout International Law.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Given the Labour collapse in the North, where will the biggest Labour majority be after Thursday? Is it likely to be in London? If so, Holborn and St Pancras might be the winner.

    I'm fairly sure it'll be somewhere in one of the inner cities, probably Liverpool. I don't think the factors that affect the more rural areas of the North apply there, and I haven't seen any anecdotal evidence to suggest differently.
  • Endillion said:

    America and Murdoch will watching the election very closely - Johnson\Corbyn could be Trump\Sanders in November 2020.

    Only difference is that the sanders progressive wing have an active media voice that holds Trump to account and won't tolerate lies (trump has a lie tracker over 15000). The UK press across print, radio and television have been utterly shameless in their bias at getting Johnson elected. The BBC needs a massive clear out.. To many diehard Tories in senior positions.

    The cool thing about Corbyn is he somehow manages to combine the worst traits of both Trump and Sanders. Or at least his followers do - I wonder sometimes if Corbyn is aware of some of the more egregious output from the likes of Bastani.
    You clearly have never met any trump or sanders supporters.

    Trump supporters are basically like Boris Johnson - support racism, homophobia, dividing people and blaming everything on immigrants or people of colour.
    I see the day's virtue-signalling has begun with much aplomb and little originality! :smile:

    p.s. I would probably fall under your definition of "people of colour", and I would rather blow my own head off than vote for Corbyn. Hope that helps make things clear.
  • melcfmelcf Posts: 166
    nichomar said:

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    TudorRose said:



    'I read on Twitter'; I think your problem starts there.

    You think BBC propaganda is more reliable than Twitter, " can I interest you in a Bridge Sir ".
    If someone is going to make claims that a program is biased, don't you think it is a requirement to have actually watched it first?
    Rob, If done by BBC you know it will be biased to the Tories, no need to watch it.
    Yes Toenails Robinson is such a Tory 🙄

    Anything short of a PPB for the SNP is biased to you.
    Nick Robinson was president of the Conservatives at Oxford, then worked for the party after graduating. Don't fall for the toenails spin.
    Ed Balls was supposedly in the Young Conservatives at Uni. That makes him...?
    .........Someone like me who saw the light and left the tories.
    Think Boris was pro EU in 2005, even wanted Turkey to join in. That time he eyed the Mayor's chair
    In 2016 turned anti EU, eyed PMs chair
  • @Sean_F

    I think Sunderland Central is a very interesting bet.

    The trouble is that it's only at the extremes of the YouGov MRP model that it shows it as a Tory win, by 39-38%, and it requires just over a 10% swing.

    But, at 9/2 with Hills, I agree - worth a punt.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Given the Labour collapse in the North, where will the biggest Labour majority be after Thursday? Is it likely to be in London? If so, Holborn and St Pancras might be the winner.

    Bristol West ?
  • malcolmg said:

    I've just heard the BBC report that Sturgeon thinks the Scottish people should determine whether there is another Indyref, rather than Westminister. Isn't that a referendum to decide whether to have a referendum? The only way out of that is to have another referendum.

    Any referendum can only be considered after Holyrood 2021

    That Holyrood election will provide a mandate or otherwise to request a referendum and HMG will need to consider it carefully

    It is interesting to note that in the latest Scots opinion poll SNP = 39% Pro Union = 60%

    Food for thought there
    I think you should get out more.
    I suspect I know more about politics in Scotland but if you can debunk the latest poll on Scotland please do so
    Have to say G , I am at a loss as to how you arrive at everybody in Scotland who does not say they vote SNP being pro union.
    Reality is that it is about 50/50 on independence/union currently and too close to call. Will be completely different story once it is about independence and not a Westminster brexit election.
    Once we exit EU , expect a move away from union for certain.
    We do disagree on this Malc but I am content for HMG to grant the referendum if Scotland votes for the SNP in a majority in the 2021 Holyrood election

    No amount of demanding from the SNP for it before then will see the HOC conceding, there is not the support

    Also March 2020 and the Salmond trial may have all sorts of implications for the SNP
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    isam said:

    How do you know?

    With class, apart from obvious cases, we are more in the realms of opinion. However, one can attempt something a little more robust -

    Grandparents occupation and finances.
    Parents education, occupation and finances.
    Own education, occupation and finances.

    Score each of the above 1/2/3 and then weight 1/2/3 to give most weight to the most recent.

    Top score = 18. That's a poshboy (girl).
    Bottom score = 6. That's 24 carat oik.

    Rayner is 11.

    And if you're interested, I am 12.

    You're a 9.

    I sense.
  • TudorRose said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Got to love the corrupt press campaigning for Boris Johnson.
    - Sophie Ridge (laugh and giggle) - Tory
    - Laura Kuennsburg BBC Chief Political Correspondent - Tory Unionist
    - Tom Bradby ITV - Tory
    - Nick Ferrari LBC - Tory
    - Nick Robinson (debate moderator BBC) Tory
    - Iain Dale LBC Tory
    - Chuck in the billionaire tax avoiding press barons hitmen

    Simple question I want answer to
    How many children do you have Boris?

    Why does that question matter? His unsuitability for the job would exist even if he had no children, or 15 . It distracts from his political unsuitability.
    We know the corrupt media...e not holding Boris Johnson to account.
    Can you give a specific example of bias in Robinson's moderation on Friday?
    Lol seriously..how many times did nick Robinson repeat Boris johnson s talking point with direct questioning forcing corbyn to answer. I read on twitter nick asked corbyn 9 time smears Johnson made and called corbyn out twice on falsehoods. Robinson only questioned Johnson three times and didn't call out any falsehoods.

    Yet Boris Johnson repeatedly lied and nick robinson did nothing
    Johnson said there will be 50k nurses..not true
    Johnson said we will get brexit done if elected..not true the law was passed and nobody was stopping that law from passed he chose an election.
    Johnson said there will be 20000 more police again not true.
    Johnson said there would be 40_new hospitals again not true.

    Its an absolute scandal that we have press core that is not holding Boris to account
    'I read on Twitter'; I think your problem starts there.
    Avoid Johnson's lies and substance.

    Avoid why Sophy ridge (laugh and giggle) can't ask Boris Johnson one tough question.
    Avoid how the BBC allows a lifelong Tory Nick Robinson to chair a debate or lifelong Tory unionist Laura to follow Boris campaign.
    Avoid how every billionaire owner of a newspaper in this country uses its journalists to cheer for Boris and smear corbyn at every opportunity.

    Just focus on 'I read on Twitter'.

    Boris Johnson voted against brexit more times than 50% of parliament. In fact some labour MPs can say they voted brexit more than Boris yet the Tories are campaigning get brexit done yet it was Boris that stopped it not the labour mp. We don't even need an election based on brexit because the bill passed.

    This is an example of the lies that the media refuses to hold Boris to account because they are biased.
  • Finished Season 3 of The Crown.

    I thought the actors all did a good job but they didn’t get the balance right between the political history and the Windsor family melodrama, something that the first series especially did well and the second series was also pretty good at.

    They could really have explored Wilson a lot better and poor Mr Heath barely got a look in. It felt a little rushed - I suspect they can’t wait to get to the 80s and Thatcher (and on the royal side, Diana) and wanted to tie everything up before it quickly.

    The first three episodes were very good.

    I'm afraid it all got rather dull after that. It's the political and historical events that provide for the drama, and otherwise it becomes just a royal version of Downton Abbey.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361
    DavidL said:

    God those new mince meat pies from M&S are good.

    Just saying.

    If the "Best Ever" ones, I agree totally. Though they should be at 4 quid.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    I've just heard the BBC report that Sturgeon thinks the Scottish people should determine whether there is another Indyref, rather than Westminister. Isn't that a referendum to decide whether to have a referendum? The only way out of that is to have another referendum.

    Any referendum can only be considered after Holyrood 2021

    That Holyrood election will provide a mandate or otherwise to request a referendum and HMG will need to consider it carefully

    It is interesting to note that in the latest Scots opinion poll SNP = 39% Pro Union = 60%

    Food for thought there
    I think you should get out more.
    I suspect I know more about politics in Scotland but if you can debunk the latest poll on Scotland please do so
    Double oooo! I was referencing your po faced approach.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    malcolmg said:

    Was

    malcolmg said:


    BBC are just a state propaganda unit.

    Exactly. Not a Tory propaganda unit. The establishment. The state. They literally back whomever happens to be the pro Establishment party of the time. Sometimes thats been Labour. Sometimes Tory. It gets denounced endlessly by both sides showing that largely it does its job properly.

    An example. YOU'RE BIASED screech the Corbyn rampers at Andrew Neil. Until he empty chairs Johnson.
    It is currently TORY and it is stuffed full of them, not an unbiased one that I could name. Their reporting is dire and blatant.
    That made me laugh.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,361

    malcolmg said:

    I've just heard the BBC report that Sturgeon thinks the Scottish people should determine whether there is another Indyref, rather than Westminister. Isn't that a referendum to decide whether to have a referendum? The only way out of that is to have another referendum.

    Any referendum can only be considered after Holyrood 2021

    That Holyrood election will provide a mandate or otherwise to request a referendum and HMG will need to consider it carefully

    It is interesting to note that in the latest Scots opinion poll SNP = 39% Pro Union = 60%

    Food for thought there
    I think you should get out more.
    I suspect I know more about politics in Scotland but if you can debunk the latest poll on Scotland please do so
    Have to say G , I am at a loss as to how you arrive at everybody in Scotland who does not say they vote SNP being pro union.
    Reality is that it is about 50/50 on independence/union currently and too close to call. Will be completely different story once it is about independence and not a Westminster brexit election.
    Once we exit EU , expect a move away from union for certain.
    We do disagree on this Malc but I am content for HMG to grant the referendum if Scotland votes for the SNP in a majority in the 2021 Holyrood election

    No amount of demanding from the SNP for it before then will see the HOC conceding, there is not the support

    Also March 2020 and the Salmond trial may have all sorts of implications for the SNP
    For Sturgeon perhaps.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    TudorRose said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Got to love the corrupt press campaigning for Boris Johnson.
    - Sophie Ridge (laugh and giggle) - Tory
    - Laura Kuennsburg BBC Chief Political Correspondent - Tory Unionist
    - Tom Bradby ITV - Tory
    - Nick Ferrari LBC - Tory
    - Nick Robinson (debate moderator BBC) Tory
    - Iain Dale LBC Tory
    - Chuck in the billionaire tax avoiding press barons hitmen

    Simple question I want answer to
    How many children do you have Boris?

    Why does that question matter? His unsuitability for the job would exist even if he had no children, or 15 . It distracts from his political unsuitability.
    We know the corrupt media...e not holding Boris Johnson to account.
    Can you give a specific example of bias in Robinson's moderation on Friday?
    Lol seriously..how many times did nick Robinson repeat Boris johnson s talking point with direct questioning forcing corbyn to answer. I read on twitter nick asked corbyn 9 time smears Johnson made and called corbyn out twice on falsehoods. Robinson only questioned Johnson three times and didn't call out any falsehoods.

    Yet Boris Johnson repeatedly lied and nick robinson did nothing
    Johnson said there will be 50k nurses..not true
    Johnson said we will get brexit done if elected..not true the law was passed and nobody was stopping that law from passed he chose an election.
    Johnson said there will be 20000 more police again not true.
    Johnson said there would be 40_new hospitals again not true.

    Its an absolute scandal that we have press core that is not holding Boris to account
    'I read on Twitter'; I think your problem starts there.
    Avoid Johnson's lies and substance.

    Avoid why Sophy ridge (laugh and giggle) can't ask Boris Johnson one tough question.
    Avoid how the BBC allows a lifelong Tory Nick Robinson to chair a debate or lifelong Tory unionist Laura to follow Boris campaign.
    Avoid how every billionaire owner of a newspaper in this country uses its journalists to cheer for Boris and smear corbyn at every opportunity.

    Just focus on 'I read on Twitter'.

    Boris Johnson voted against brexit more times than 50% of parliament. In fact some labour MPs can say they voted brexit more than Boris yet the Tories are campaigning get brexit done yet it was Boris that stopped it not the labour mp. We don't even need an election based on brexit because the bill passed.

    This is an example of the lies that the media refuses to hold Boris to account because they are biased.
    What smears against Corbyn? Do you suspect there may be someone behind all these smears? Should we find a final solution to this horror?
  • kinabalu said:

    melcf said:

    Priti Patel, talks about a points based immigration system. No one talks about INVESTING in the local population and training them to do these jobs. Instead of advertising and fast tracking in Pakistan or Nigeria. Or raising wages, to make some jobs, such as care workers, more appealing with some career progression.
    UK needs skilled employment but it also needs people to do back breaking jobs on minimum wage. Such as production operatives and fruit picking. The big industries, many who have contributed in billions into the Tories fund, won't be happy with staff shortages or paying staff more. It cuts into their profits and affects shareholder.
    So besides this 'points based' immigration, there will be low skilled immigration also. Eventually making Brexit a 'pointless' excercise. Except, it allowed the Torie to stay in power for 10-15 years, despite savage austerity. Even Houdini couldn't have diverted attention with such skill

    +1

    Many of the white working class voters voting Tory to Get Brexit Done are prioritizing concerns over identity ahead of economic self-interest. There is nothing evil about this. It is their choice. I worry where this leads however. Once Brexit is 'done', how are the Tories going to retain the support of these identity driven voters?
    Well, if you're representative of Labour activists, then disowning them and telling them to commit an impossible sexual act with themselves if they vote Tory this time might help keep them in the Tory camp a little bit longer.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677


    Once you have made those corrections, I think it would be interesting to know how many UK soldiers were lost, and how many foreign casualties were caused by UK troops in the various interventions.

    It's not just the KIAs on the battlefield. In Iraq II I regularly used to fly the same patrol of Booties around in a Lynx with a gearbox made of parmesan. They were all much younger than me - I was in my early 30s, they were 18-20 years old. All four of them made it home from Basra and all four of them are now dead - alcohol, drugs or suicide.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What does a non-authentic human being look like?

    Blond, messy hair, prone to fat, little piggy eyes, shirt hanging out?
    CCHQ is making a feature of Boris's trademark dishevelled look. Trademark because he tousles his hair before appearing on camera, and he could easily afford suits and shirts that properly fit. Boris's photo ops this election invariably show him mucking in with the workers, with protective clothing or jacket off and sleeves rolled up (but not neatly).

    It is clearly a deliberate tactic, and one that runs counter to the Cameron's mum advice taken by Corbyn and previous prime ministers (and Donald Trump, who always looks immaculate). It will be interesting after the election to read a 75,000-word blog post from Dominic Cummings explaining the rationale.
    Boris has always been a scruffy bugger. I don't think his look is all that contrived.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    DeClare said:

    DeClare said:

    DeClare said:

    Andy_JS said:
    I've been looking at the weather forecast for Thursday, it's going to pour with rain all day, in the South-East at any rate.
    This will probably reduce turnout among youngsters more than it will among older people who are more likely to run a car and more likely to vote by post.
    A lot of working age people will get home from work, take a look at the weather and not be arsed.
    There should be more than a day to vote, and one of the days should be a weekend day.
    There are some people who reckon that evening rain in the London area swung the 2016 referendum, they thought that leave voters were more likely to vote earlier in the day when it was still dry.
    That was in the Summer, if that theory is true, it will be even more pronounced in the Winter I would have thought.
    Evening rain in the South-East on Thursday could be bad news for the Lib/Dems and for Labour in a few places too but if it's all day it'll affect turnout across the board.
    It's not forecast to be raining as much in Scotland on Thursday.
    Do you work in the Met Office?
    No, just passing on information which may be useful for betting purposes.
    If there's heavy rain, it will certainly reduce turnout and activists won't be so keen to do knocking up.
    I see this affecting tactical voting and voting by EU remain supporters disproportionately, the Lib/Dems will suffer the most, in my opinion.
    I could be wrong of course,.
    Apologies. You can't possibly work for the Met Office after typing that last sentence.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231

    It was pre-Thatcher, just. But as I have said here on many occasions I also benefited hugely from the changes she pioneered and the fact that she left large parts of the welfare state intact. I have been a very lucky boy to have been born where I was, to who I was and at the time I was!

    Rise with your class not out of it!
    :smile:
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728

    America and Murdoch will watching the election very closely - Johnson\Corbyn could be Trump\Sanders in November 2020.

    Only difference is that the sanders progressive wing have an active media voice that holds Trump to account and won't tolerate lies (trump has a lie tracker over 15000). The UK press across print, radio and television have been utterly shameless in their bias at getting Johnson elected. The BBC needs a massive clear out.. To many diehard Tories in senior positions.

    No. The main differences are that while Sanders is very left-wing, he hasn't succumbed to the far left moral turpitude that has led to Corbyn spending his entire political career supporting vile antisemites, left-wing dictators, and some of the nastiest people on the planet, providing it's the west (as well as their own people) they're being nasty to. Secondly, Sanders is trying to drag a system that's an at the extremes of a market economy one, that has personal rights over collective endeavour woven into the fabric of its polity, towards European social democracy, which even if you think it won't work in the US system (even if elected he'll probably be blocked by a likely Republican Senate), isn't a terrible idea of and in itself, America can afford universal healthcare and cheaper tuition. Corbyn on the other hand, wants something between full socialism and corporatism that's pretty much a fantasy because it promises the benefits of the former with none of the drawbacks and institutional problems.

    Sanders is a fundamentally decent man, who can be a bit cranky when railing against a system that generally locks out even his more plausible political desires, Corbyn is a genuine crank, and a dangerous one at that.
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I've just heard the BBC report that Sturgeon thinks the Scottish people should determine whether there is another Indyref, rather than Westminister. Isn't that a referendum to decide whether to have a referendum? The only way out of that is to have another referendum.

    Any referendum can only be considered after Holyrood 2021

    That Holyrood election will provide a mandate or otherwise to request a referendum and HMG will need to consider it carefully

    It is interesting to note that in the latest Scots opinion poll SNP = 39% Pro Union = 60%

    Food for thought there
    I think you should get out more.
    I suspect I know more about politics in Scotland but if you can debunk the latest poll on Scotland please do so
    Have to say G , I am at a loss as to how you arrive at everybody in Scotland who does not say they vote SNP being pro union.
    Reality is that it is about 50/50 on independence/union currently and too close to call. Will be completely different story once it is about independence and not a Westminster brexit election.
    Once we exit EU , expect a move away from union for certain.
    We do disagree on this Malc but I am content for HMG to grant the referendum if Scotland votes for the SNP in a majority in the 2021 Holyrood election

    No amount of demanding from the SNP for it before then will see the HOC conceding, there is not the support

    Also March 2020 and the Salmond trial may have all sorts of implications for the SNP
    For Sturgeon perhaps.
    Yes

    I do wonder how she will be drawn into it but it will be very interesting but distressing for many involved personally
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    “We’ve done everything, I think, we can possibly do. We’ve apologised to the Jewish community”

    #Marr asks Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell about anti-Semitism in the Labour Party

    https://t.co/X0aR3j9iz6 https://t.co/9CVbcX2pqg

    'Weve done everything we are going to do. Fuck em'
  • melcfmelcf Posts: 166
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    I've just heard the BBC report that Sturgeon thinks the Scottish people should determine whether there is another Indyref, rather than Westminister. Isn't that a referendum to decide whether to have a referendum? The only way out of that is to have another referendum.

    By voting for independence supporting political parties at elections you absolutely stupid bell end.
    Do you have two wrong sides to your bed?
    Nice one :D made me laugh.
    Thankfully, after 10 years of Tory rule you still have a bed
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    I am considering placing a small wager on a Tory majority. (Betfair Exchange, 1.34-1.35.)

    Can anyone come up with any cogent arguments against that?
  • kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    How do you know?

    With class, apart from obvious cases, we are more in the realms of opinion. However, one can attempt something a little more robust -

    Grandparents occupation and finances.
    Parents education, occupation and finances.
    Own education, occupation and finances.

    Score each of the above 1/2/3 and then weight 1/2/3 to give most weight to the most recent.

    Top score = 18. That's a poshboy (girl).
    Bottom score = 6. That's 24 carat oik.

    Rayner is 11.

    And if you're interested, I am 12.

    You're a 9.

    I sense.
    16.33.

    This clearly means nothing :wink:
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    malcolmg said:

    I've just heard the BBC report that Sturgeon thinks the Scottish people should determine whether there is another Indyref, rather than Westminister. Isn't that a referendum to decide whether to have a referendum? The only way out of that is to have another referendum.

    Any referendum can only be considered after Holyrood 2021

    That Holyrood election will provide a mandate or otherwise to request a referendum and HMG will need to consider it carefully

    It is interesting to note that in the latest Scots opinion poll SNP = 39% Pro Union = 60%

    Food for thought there
    I think you should get out more.
    I suspect I know more about politics in Scotland but if you can debunk the latest poll on Scotland please do so
    Have to say G , I am at a loss as to how you arrive at everybody in Scotland who does not say they vote SNP being pro union.
    Reality is that it is about 50/50 on independence/union currently and too close to call. Will be completely different story once it is about independence and not a Westminster brexit election.
    Once we exit EU , expect a move away from union for certain.
    We do disagree on this Malc but I am content for HMG to grant the referendum if Scotland votes for the SNP in a majority in the 2021 Holyrood election

    No amount of demanding from the SNP for it before then will see the HOC conceding, there is not the support

    Also March 2020 and the Salmond trial may have all sorts of implications for the SNP
    What does the Salmond trial actually do - he has already been removed from SNP campaigning..
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,123
    edited December 2019

    “We’ve done everything, I think, we can possibly do. We’ve apologised to the Jewish community”

    #Marr asks Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell about anti-Semitism in the Labour Party

    https://t.co/X0aR3j9iz6 https://t.co/9CVbcX2pqg

    'Weve done everything we are going to do. Fuck em'

    Done everything possible...really....

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/exposed-the-secret-labour-files-of-shame-mwhhfkknv

    Imagine if they weren't trying !!!
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    OK, serious question. I've been trawling through the parties' list of candidates on their own websites (don't ask) and have discovered that:

    - Safia Ali, Labour candidate for Falkirk; and
    - Waheed Rafiq, Lib Dem candidate for Birmingham, Hodge Hill,

    are both listed as official candidates for their respective parties, despite having supposedly been struck off for anti-Semitism.

    Anyone know why they might have been let back in, or is this just incompetence? If not does anyone have some email addresses I can issue complaints to, or should I just use their complaint forms and hope?

    Also any other suspended candidates I've forgotten about?
  • glw said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What does a non-authentic human being look like?

    Blond, messy hair, prone to fat, little piggy eyes, shirt hanging out?
    CCHQ is making a feature of Boris's trademark dishevelled look. Trademark because he tousles his hair before appearing on camera, and he could easily afford suits and shirts that properly fit. Boris's photo ops this election invariably show him mucking in with the workers, with protective clothing or jacket off and sleeves rolled up (but not neatly).

    It is clearly a deliberate tactic, and one that runs counter to the Cameron's mum advice taken by Corbyn and previous prime ministers (and Donald Trump, who always looks immaculate). It will be interesting after the election to read a 75,000-word blog post from Dominic Cummings explaining the rationale.
    Boris has always been a scruffy bugger. I don't think his look is all that contrived.
    Indeed but it's such a part of his luck that he's known for I do think he hams it up. I suspect if he suddenly turned up with a neat suit and short back and sides neatly combed it would look jarring.
  • eek said:

    malcolmg said:

    I've just heard the BBC report that Sturgeon thinks the Scottish people should determine whether there is another Indyref, rather than Westminister. Isn't that a referendum to decide whether to have a referendum? The only way out of that is to have another referendum.

    Any referendum can only be considered after Holyrood 2021

    That Holyrood election will provide a mandate or otherwise to request a referendum and HMG will need to consider it carefully

    It is interesting to note that in the latest Scots opinion poll SNP = 39% Pro Union = 60%

    Food for thought there
    I think you should get out more.
    I suspect I know more about politics in Scotland but if you can debunk the latest poll on Scotland please do so
    Have to say G , I am at a loss as to how you arrive at everybody in Scotland who does not say they vote SNP being pro union.
    Reality is that it is about 50/50 on independence/union currently and too close to call. Will be completely different story once it is about independence and not a Westminster brexit election.
    Once we exit EU , expect a move away from union for certain.
    We do disagree on this Malc but I am content for HMG to grant the referendum if Scotland votes for the SNP in a majority in the 2021 Holyrood election

    No amount of demanding from the SNP for it before then will see the HOC conceding, there is not the support

    Also March 2020 and the Salmond trial may have all sorts of implications for the SNP
    What does the Salmond trial actually do - he has already been removed from SNP campaigning..
    I suspect as Malc alludes to that Sturgeon may well be called to give evidence
  • DeClareDeClare Posts: 483

    Given the Labour collapse in the North, where will the biggest Labour majority be after Thursday? Is it likely to be in London? If so, Holborn and St Pancras might be the winner.

    Bristol West ?
    Camberwell and Peckham
    { The Tories should have made Harriet Harman speaker, they might have won Chorley.)

  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    I see that the election-only rampers have arrived.
  • melcfmelcf Posts: 166
    In 2010, 20£ at Tesco could buy my stuff worth 3-4 carrier bags.
    After 2016, that went down below Now I can barely fill one.
    Don't worry, I always have oven ready Brexit to eat!!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231

    CCHQ is making a feature of Boris's trademark dishevelled look. Trademark because he tousles his hair before appearing on camera, and he could easily afford suits and shirts that properly fit. Boris's photo ops this election invariably show him mucking in with the workers, with protective clothing or jacket off and sleeves rolled up (but not neatly).

    It is clearly a deliberate tactic, and one that runs counter to the Cameron's mum advice taken by Corbyn and previous prime ministers (and Donald Trump, who always looks immaculate). It will be interesting after the election to read a 75,000-word blog post from Dominic Cummings explaining the rationale.

    Poshboys can get away with looking scruffy. Just another facet of that strange deal we call the English class system. No doubt 'Dom' will confirm in that blogpost.
  • Dear Boris Johnson voters,

    Tomorrow I would like you to go to your workplace and do the following
    - call all single mothers 'ill-raised, ignorant, aggressive and illegitimate.
    - Muslim women "letterboxes" and "bank robbers"
    - Gay men "bumboys.
    - Black people " piccaninnies"
    - Voting Conservative will cause your wife to have bigger breasts and increase your chances of owning a BMW M3.

    Now any workplace would fire you on the spot. If its unacceptable to use this language at work why is it OK for it to be used in politics???
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    How do you know?

    With class, apart from obvious cases, we are more in the realms of opinion. However, one can attempt something a little more robust -

    Grandparents occupation and finances.
    Parents education, occupation and finances.
    Own education, occupation and finances.

    Score each of the above 1/2/3 and then weight 1/2/3 to give most weight to the most recent.

    Top score = 18. That's a poshboy (girl).
    Bottom score = 6. That's 24 carat oik.

    Rayner is 11.

    And if you're interested, I am 12.

    You're a 9.

    I sense.
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    How do you know?

    With class, apart from obvious cases, we are more in the realms of opinion. However, one can attempt something a little more robust -

    Grandparents occupation and finances.
    Parents education, occupation and finances.
    Own education, occupation and finances.

    Score each of the above 1/2/3 and then weight 1/2/3 to give most weight to the most recent.

    Top score = 18. That's a poshboy (girl).
    Bottom score = 6. That's 24 carat oik.

    Rayner is 11.

    And if you're interested, I am 12.

    You're a 9.

    I sense.
    I like the idea of a 24 carat oik
  • malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    TudorRose said:



    'I read on Twitter'; I think your problem starts there.

    You think BBC propaganda is more reliable than Twitter, " can I interest you in a Bridge Sir ".
    If someone is going to make claims that a program is biased, don't you think it is a requirement to have actually watched it first?
    Rob, If done by BBC you know it will be biased to the Tories, no need to watch it.
    Yes Toenails Robinson is such a Tory 🙄

    Anything short of a PPB for the SNP is biased to you.
    Nick Robinson was president of the Conservatives at Oxford, then worked for the party after graduating. Don't fall for the toenails spin.
    Ed Balls was supposedly in the Young Conservatives at Uni. That makes him...?
    One of those squirrels Plato used to warn us about? Wikipedia says Balls joined the Labour Party while still at school but at Oxford also joined the LibDem and Conservative clubs so he could hear their visiting speakers.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Balls

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,123
    edited December 2019
    Regardless of if he was a scruffy bugger by nature, Boris scruffy look is now definitely part of his trademark and so it is clear that he makes sure it is on point for every interview.
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