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  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Byronic said:

    This twitter thread (which was posted below by nunu) is, prima facie, revelatory

    https://mobile.twitter.com/TracyAnnO/status/1203397839453380611

    If half of these anecdotes are in the vicinity of reality, then Labour could be headed for an unprecedented meltdown. Their people just won't come out and vote for Corbyn. They might not switch to Boris, Farage or Swinson, but they won't give the anti-semite their support, either.

    Labour could lose many dozens of seats. Maybe a hundred?

    It will be a bloodbath for Labour in the Midlands. Corbyn's support for the IRA may not resonate so much in other parts of the country, but here it is utterly toxic.

    Why do you think it is resonating this time, but didn't last time? In 2017, the papers went massive on terrorist sympathising, this time it is antisemitism and much less about his IRA mates. I honestly presumed the terrorist stuff was just now all factored in.

    It has been all over Tory social media efforts around here and it has been mentioned consistently by Johnson and co. May never used it in 2017.

    With the increased use of social media and micro-targeted adverts, I'd be surprised if CCHQ is not sending the IRA and Jewish stuff to appropriate recipients, while Labour does likewise with Boris's unfortunate past statements. Unless you are a Black Jewish Muslim whose granny suffers dementia and whose daughter needs a school place near the hospital in a marginal constituency, you will not see all the messages.

    I'm not at all sure this below-the-radar campaigning is good for democracy but we are where we are. For one thing, if Jo Swinson does not even know what Plaid Cymru says about her, she can hardly refute it.
    I am pretty confident that CCHQ is not actively targeting Jews with ads on Labour's anti-Semitism. Firstly, they don't need to; secondly; there aren't that many people who can be easily targeted; and thirdly, they've been pretty quiet on the issue over the past few years, preferring to let the media and Labour backbenchers make the running on what is, essentially, an internal Labour problem.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Endillion said:

    Bottom line is a third of the UK population sponsors a corrupt media. Donald Trump and Boris Johnson are bigots and the media defend their bigotry and hate to make money.
    Corrupt special interests are fueling their campaigns for one reason - profit.

    Murdoch makes millions of dollars in profit fueling hate and bigotry and Boris Johnson voters pay money to continue this hate campaign.
    The daily mail exists to divide people by class, race, gender and religion to fight for the special interests of the billionaires and corrupt special interests that want wking people to have zero rights.

    Every election we hear the same neo liberal policies on spending and the constant abuse of working rights, injustice, xenophobia, racism, homophobia and nobody in the media wants to address the corruption that exists in our country.

    Boris Johnson is a bigot and his voters sponsor bigotry and hate everyday by voting for politicians owned by corrupt firms, buying and reading the corrupt media that pushes and represents its interests solely of its owners.

    You can't divide people by any of those things. People are prime - they divide only by themselves, and one.
    Has Adrian Harper posted again?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    Labour, 1979 to 2019, a summary:

    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    and, barring a miracle,
    Defeat

    Can anyone see a pattern here?

    I think you could be a bit more balanced. Try:
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Narrow Tory victory under Major
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Hung Parliament
    Narrow Tory Victory under Cameron
    Hung Parliament
    ?

  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:



    Hold on....wasn't there a video in 2017 that got millions and millions of views that all the Tories got super excited about as it was exposing Jezza as the terrorist best mate? No?

    Or are you saying, the messaging is more consistent and better targeted this?

    It's been very highly-targeted social media messaging backed up, crucially, by consistent repetition of the same message by key figures in the Tory campaign. May did not debate Corbyn in 2017, Johnson used the IRA against him during Friday's debate.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-50695028/election-debate-boris-johnson-claims-jeremy-corbyn-supported-the-ira

    As I said in 2017, having millions of views doesn't count for much. On Facebook you can easily get into the hundreds of thousands of views for less than the price of a second hand car.

    What matters is whether or not the message resonates with the target audience and creates a conversation or encourages them to share it. So called "organic" social media is far, far, far more powerful than paid.

    You can shove an ad in front of ten million people and if they all think it is crap you have wasted your money. The Tory ads of 2017 were, without exception, crap. The "stop them arguing" that's been on YouTube is quite good. But I'm yet to see anyone share it or even mention it (execpt on here).

    One thing I have noticed this time round is far, far, far fewer people sharing Labour and Momentum posts on social media. It feels like just the hardcore activists now, whereas in 2017 people I've known for years who I'd never seen express an interest in politics were sharing Corbyn stuff.

    Ultimately I don't think any of the main candidates enthuse this time around. It's the "just get it done so we can get on with our lives" election, which means Boris will probably win. His message resonates. Even if it doesn't enthuse.

    I wonder if this is becoming the "just stop that traitor Corbyn" election.
    Quite possibly in northern/midlands seats.

    My social circle skews youngish (20s and 30s), middle class and southern so I don't feel as if I can comment.

    What I have noticed though is that most of my friendship group who were sharing Corbyn memes in 2017 have gone very quiet this time round.
  • If the Conservatives hit 29%in Scotland as suggested by Panelbase am I right in thinking that that is their highest share since 1979. Remarkable if so.
  • So.... if the anecdata is correct and Corbyn is electoral cyanide - where do all his votes go?

    If you believe the anecdata, the polls seem to be massively overstating Labour's chances
  • You vote Tory..you turn your back away from a problem..4million children in poverty.

    You vote Tory to get brexit done...a bill that was already passed and no election needed. LIE

    You vote Tory to stop Corbyn..fine get another one but labour will never again vote for a neoliberal politician that will pander to the same special interests that fuel campaigns for profit.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    So.... if the anecdata is correct and Corbyn is electoral cyanide - where do all his votes go?

    If you believe the anecdata, the polls seem to be massively overstating Labour's chances

    Do they? They are pointing to a ten point deficit.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Labour, 1979 to 2019, a summary:

    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    and, barring a miracle,
    Defeat

    Can anyone see a pattern here?

    You've gotten over your panicked defeatism then?
  • Just been off to catch up on the Chris Williamson twitter feed - it's actually rather sad, still got his usual 'iffy' retweeting on things and then him and his handful of volunteers out and about with Labour bags and/or posters behind them... whilst not actually being the Labour candidate.

    https://twitter.com/DerbyChrisW/status/1203383650768818176?s=20

    How much is the pay-off for standing and losing?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    glw said:

    Stocky said:

    glw said:

    Stocky said:

    The people that pay the most are already the highest earners.

    I thought the very highest earners could repay in full early and therefore pay less in total than some of those who earn a little less.
    Anyone can repay early of they like - though you would be pretty crazy to want to do that for a few reasons, including:
    - what if you repay and then find that you earn less than the minimum per annum (currently £25k)
    - what if you die?
    - what if an future government (Corbyn?) wipes out debt after you have repaid yours?

    In each of these examples you would be kicking yourself because you have repaid a "loan" needlessly.
    Those are all good points, which show why even the "the rich don't pay the most" criticism of the student loans isn't as clear cut as it might seem at first.

    I suspect we will eventually end up with a "fairer" graduate tax, that sees many people paying more money for their education over time, and universities receiving less funding in return, and the beneficiary being the Treasury.
    "The rich don't pay the most" criticism makes absolutely no sense - because they do.

    It`s true that rich parents may cough up initially so that a Student Loan isn`t required at all. But if they do cough up, say, £50k to do this (inc fees and maintainance etc) then they would sorely regret doing so if the three examples I gave above come about.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    You vote Tory..you turn your back away from a problem..4million children in poverty.

    You vote Tory to get brexit done...a bill that was already passed and no election needed. LIE

    You vote Tory to stop Corbyn..fine get another one but labour will never again vote for a neoliberal politician that will pander to the same special interests that fuel campaigns for profit.

    You are the one lying. The bill wasn't passed.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912

    You vote Tory to stop Corbyn..fine get another one but labour will never again vote for a neoliberal politician that will pander to the same special interests that fuel campaigns for profit.

    Is that a promise?
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    Dear Boris Johnson voters,

    Tomorrow I would like you to go to your workplace and do the following
    - call all single mothers 'ill-raised, ignorant, aggressive and illegitimate.
    - Muslim women "letterboxes" and "bank robbers"
    - Gay men "bumboys.
    - Black people " piccaninnies"
    - Voting Conservative will cause your wife to have bigger breasts and increase your chances of owning a BMW M3.

    Now any workplace would fire you on the spot. If its unacceptable to use this language at work why is it OK for it to be used in politics???


    Is it acceptable for a political party to be referred to the Equality & Human Rights Commission due to serious allegations of racism, the only other party that has managed that is the BNP.


    No it isn't.

    Now I've answered your question can you go to your workplace tomorrow and call your gay colleague "a bumboy" , a single mother "illegitimate", a Muslim " a lettebox" and let me know tomorrow evening what the response was.

    If you can't do it, why are you a coward?
    Or as is more likely, not paid to write columns in a national newspaper designed to provoke a reaction.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    glw said:

    You vote Tory to stop Corbyn..fine get another one but labour will never again vote for a neoliberal politician that will pander to the same special interests that fuel campaigns for profit.

    Is that a promise?
    How else are we going to get that thousand year PB Tory reich? :o
  • RobD said:

    So.... if the anecdata is correct and Corbyn is electoral cyanide - where do all his votes go?

    If you believe the anecdata, the polls seem to be massively overstating Labour's chances

    Do they? They are pointing to a ten point deficit.
    Reading various anecdotes both here and the social media echo chamber, a ten point deficit looks too small which is a pity. I wanted a Boris minority govt.
  • Labour, 1979 to 2019, a summary:

    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    and, barring a miracle,
    Defeat

    Can anyone see a pattern here?

    You need to be over 74 years old to have voted in an election in which Labour won a working majority, other than when it was led by Tony Blair,
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,236
    @Byronic

    So, expanding, you look at your Gs and your Ps and yourself and give each a grade, 1/2/3, where 1 is bottom tier and 3 is top tier. Can use decimals to 1 point.

    Then you weight 3/2/1 in favour of most recent, you, Ps, Gs. Then aggregate.

    Thus if you are 2.8, Ps are 2.5, Gs are 1.5, we generate 14.9.

    Round to 15.

    Which would be upper middle class.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited December 2019
    dr_spyn said:

    RobD said:

    melcf said:

    RobD said:

    melcf said:

    melcf said:

    In 2010, 20£ at Tesco could buy my stuff worth 3-4 carrier bags.
    After 2016, that went down below Now I can barely fill one.
    Don't worry, I always have oven ready Brexit to eat!!

    So you'll be very happy to get Brexit done with the resulting cost reductions for food,footwear & clothing due UK no longer having to apply EU restrictive tariffs & quotas.
    Brexit was not about economics. It was more about immigration, or fear of immigration, nostalgia from pensioners and the working class revolting, after 6 years of Tory austerity. Take back control, is basically control in the hands of Rees Mogg and fellow aristocrats. Who ideally would like children to be going up the chimney and not the social ladder. Be real!
    Is there actually any point posting things like this here?
    Isn't this election all about an oven ready Brexit?? To cover 10 years of Tory misrule
    I was referring to the ridiculous comments about Tories wanting children up the chimney and the like.
    Tories roasting babies on an open fire.
    The bastards still haven't set me mine when I voted for them in 2017....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    When Boris wins on Friday morning...green light for all Tory voters to call Muslims "letterboxes" gaymen "bumboys" single mothers "illegitimate"

    The British people have spoken..if Boris Johnson can say it and be prime minister why can't you as a Tory voter say it to your work colleagues?
    The daily mail is the biggest selling newspaper in the UK and they use racist, homophobic language everyday and reflect britain. The daily mail reflects British views and if the daily mail says it...why can't you??

    As Tory voters, you have the right to end the political correctness crusade and can express your views however you like. If you are questioned remind your PC friends..Boris Johnson is prime minister if he can say it why cant I?

    Don't speak to @kinabalu like that; I think he is a waverer.
  • Chris said:

    Labour, 1979 to 2019, a summary:

    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    and, barring a miracle,
    Defeat

    Can anyone see a pattern here?

    I think you could be a bit more balanced. Try:
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Narrow Tory victory under Major
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Hung Parliament
    Narrow Tory Victory under Cameron
    Hung Parliament
    ?

    Correction..

    Thatcher - fucked working people (killed some)
    Major - fucked working people (killed some)
    Blair - fucked working people
    Brown - fucked working people (can pay for a war\bank bailout)
    cameron\clegg - fucked working people (killed some)
    May - fucked working people
    Johnson fucked working people (wants to kill the feckless and illegitimate if given opportunity)

    All politicians sponsored and endorsed by Rupert Murdoch and corrupt neo liberals for profit.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    melcf said:

    Bottom line is a third of the UK population sponsors a corrupt media. Donald Trump and Boris Johnson are bigots and the media defend their bigotry and hate to make money.
    Corrupt special interests are fueling their campaigns for one reason - profit.

    Murdoch makes millions of dollars in profit fueling hate and bigotry and Boris Johnson voters pay money to continue this hate campaign.
    The daily mail exists to divide people by class, race, gender and religion to fight for the special interests of the billionaires and corrupt special interests that want wking people to have zero rights.

    Every election we hear the same neo liberal policies on spending and the constant abuse of working rights, injustice, xenophobia, racism, homophobia and nobody in the media wants to address the corruption that exists in our country.

    Boris Johnson is a bigot and his voters sponsor bigotry and hate everyday by voting for politicians owned by corrupt firms, buying and reading the corrupt media that pushes and represents its interests solely of its owners.

    The saddest part, of all this media savagery towards Corbyn, is that the working classes have been brainwashed against him. This is the man who can lift them out from the mess they are in at the moment. They rather believe in a false, lying Etonian Prophet and his oven ready Brexit. Who, in reality, doesnt even think of them as ....hu...n
    And so the blame deflection begins in earnest.

    At least leave it until he's lost. We all suspect this only ends one way, but it ain't over til it's over.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    Byronic said:

    kyf_100 said:



    Hold on....wasn't there a video in 2017 that got millions and millions of views that all the Tories got super excited about as it was exposing Jezza as the terrorist best mate? No?

    Or are you saying, the messaging is more consistent and better targeted this?

    It's been very highly-targeted social media messaging backed up, crucially, by consistent repetition of the same message by key figures in the Tory campaign. May did not debate Corbyn in 2017, Johnson used the IRA against him during Friday's debate.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-50695028/election-debate-boris-johnson-claims-jeremy-corbyn-supported-the-ira

    As I said in 2017, having millions of views doesn't count for much. On Facebook you can easily get into the hundreds of thousands of views for less than the price of a second hand car.

    What matters is whether or not the message resonates with the target audience and creates a conversation or encourages them to share it. So called "organic" social media is far, far, far more powerful than paid.

    You can shove an ad in front of ten million people and if they all think it is crap you have wasted your money. The Tory ads of 2017 were, without exception, crap. The "stop them arguing" that's been on YouTube is quite good. But I'm yet to see anyone share it or even mention it (execpt on here).

    One thing I have noticed this time round is far, far, far fewer people sharing Labour and Momentum posts on social media. It feels like just the hardcore activists now, whereas in 2017 people I've known for years who I'd never seen express an interest in politics were sharing Corbyn stuff.

    Ultimately I don't think any of the main candidates enthuse this time around. It's the "just get it done so we can get on with our lives" election, which means Boris will probably win. His message resonates. Even if it doesn't enthuse.

    I wonder if this is becoming the "just stop that traitor Corbyn" election.
    Surely you mean "stop that old Nazi traitor paedophile Corbyn with squinty eyes." Let's have some accuracy here, please.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    @RobD

    And for the record, I am voting LibDem. Corbyn has been a disaster for the Labour party and this country. The fact remains that the calamity of Brexit has happened on his watch. The country will pay a huge price for his oversight! HUGE, MASSIVE. The next few years are going to be grim Robbie - it will unravel and it will unravel quickly. Mark my words...

    Anyway, you know I just play with you PB Tories at times, but i will tone it down.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Chris said:

    Labour, 1979 to 2019, a summary:

    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    and, barring a miracle,
    Defeat

    Can anyone see a pattern here?

    I think you could be a bit more balanced. Try:
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Narrow Tory victory under Major
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Hung Parliament
    Narrow Tory Victory under Cameron
    Hung Parliament
    ?

    Correction..

    Thatcher - fucked working people (killed some)
    Major - fucked working people (killed some)
    Blair - fucked working people
    Brown - fucked working people (can pay for a war\bank bailout)
    cameron\clegg - fucked working people (killed some)
    May - fucked working people
    Johnson fucked working people (wants to kill the feckless and illegitimate if given opportunity)

    All politicians sponsored and endorsed by Rupert Murdoch and corrupt neo liberals for profit.
    You are shameless.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Chris said:

    Labour, 1979 to 2019, a summary:

    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    and, barring a miracle,
    Defeat

    Can anyone see a pattern here?

    I think you could be a bit more balanced. Try:
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Narrow Tory victory under Major
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Hung Parliament
    Narrow Tory Victory under Cameron
    Hung Parliament
    ?

    Correction..

    Thatcher - fucked working people (killed some)
    Major - fucked working people (killed some)
    Blair - fucked working people
    Brown - fucked working people (can pay for a war\bank bailout)
    cameron\clegg - fucked working people (killed some)
    May - fucked working people
    Johnson fucked working people (wants to kill the feckless and illegitimate if given opportunity)

    All politicians sponsored and endorsed by Rupert Murdoch and corrupt neo liberals for profit.
    Lol. Hysterical nonsense
  • Jeremy Corbyn claimed that Islamic State was 'not a great threat to the UK' only hours after a video of Jihadi John beheading a British aid worker horrified the world, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.

    Mr Corbyn made the extraordinary statement at a Stop The War Coalition rally on October 4, 2014, following the release of footage the day before showing the sickening murder of father-of-two Alan Henning.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-7768095/HARRY-COLE-Labour-leader-said-Islamic-State-not-great-threat-UK.html
  • Stocky said:

    decrepiterjohnL: I can`t get the hang of this block quote thing.


    They do not have the "debt hanging over them" unless they choose to (incorrectly) think of it in those terms. It is a liability to pay a 9% higher income tax rate for 30 years. It is not a loan. No-one is ever going to ask you to repay it (other than through a higher income tax rate).

    That is why it is damn stupid politics from the self-styled strategic genius, George Osborne, because the debt is left hanging over people who will never have to repay it.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    glw said:

    Stocky said:

    glw said:

    Stocky said:

    The people that pay the most are already the highest earners.

    I thought the very highest earners could repay in full early and therefore pay less in total than some of those who earn a little less.
    Anyone can repay early of they like - though you would be pretty crazy to want to do that for a few reasons, including:
    - what if you repay and then find that you earn less than the minimum per annum (currently £25k)
    - what if you die?
    - what if an future government (Corbyn?) wipes out debt after you have repaid yours?

    In each of these examples you would be kicking yourself because you have repaid a "loan" needlessly.
    Those are all good points, which show why even the "the rich don't pay the most" criticism of the student loans isn't as clear cut as it might seem at first.

    I suspect we will eventually end up with a "fairer" graduate tax, that sees many people paying more money for their education over time, and universities receiving less funding in return, and the beneficiary being the Treasury.
    Yes, one of the questions I would have liked to see Corbyn answer is; how much will you pay Universities to teach students? It's one thing to abolish tuition fees but that doesn't explain how (and how much) you will fund HE.
  • novanova Posts: 692

    Labour, 1979 to 2019, a summary:

    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    and, barring a miracle,
    Defeat

    Can anyone see a pattern here?

    You need to be over 74 years old to have voted in an election in which Labour won a working majority, other than when it was led by Tony Blair,
    On the flip side, no-one under 50 has voted for a Tory government which actually made it through a full term with a majority intact.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405

    Just been off to catch up on the Chris Williamson twitter feed - it's actually rather sad, still got his usual 'iffy' retweeting on things and then him and his handful of volunteers out and about with Labour bags and/or posters behind them... whilst not actually being the Labour candidate.

    https://twitter.com/DerbyChrisW/status/1203383650768818176?s=20

    How much is the pay-off for standing and losing?

    It depends on age and their length of time as an MP https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/happens-mp-loses-seat-524106 has some detail.

    For Chris williamson it may not actually be that much.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Stocky said:

    glw said:

    Stocky said:

    glw said:

    Stocky said:

    The people that pay the most are already the highest earners.

    I thought the very highest earners could repay in full early and therefore pay less in total than some of those who earn a little less.
    Anyone can repay early of they like - though you would be pretty crazy to want to do that for a few reasons, including:
    - what if you repay and then find that you earn less than the minimum per annum (currently £25k)
    - what if you die?
    - what if an future government (Corbyn?) wipes out debt after you have repaid yours?

    In each of these examples you would be kicking yourself because you have repaid a "loan" needlessly.
    Those are all good points, which show why even the "the rich don't pay the most" criticism of the student loans isn't as clear cut as it might seem at first.

    I suspect we will eventually end up with a "fairer" graduate tax, that sees many people paying more money for their education over time, and universities receiving less funding in return, and the beneficiary being the Treasury.
    "The rich don't pay the most" criticism makes absolutely no sense - because they do.

    It`s true that rich parents may cough up initially so that a Student Loan isn`t required at all. But if they do cough up, say, £50k to do this (inc fees and maintainance etc) then they would sorely regret doing so if the three examples I gave above come about.
    Regarding the third example I gave: that of the possibility a future government wiping off historic "debt": Corbyn`s policy is actively making it less likely that existing student loans are repaid early. It is therefore counter-productive from a government finance point of view because parents/graduates would be crazy to repay "debts" early now.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    Chris said:

    Labour, 1979 to 2019, a summary:

    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    and, barring a miracle,
    Defeat

    Can anyone see a pattern here?

    I think you could be a bit more balanced. Try:
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Narrow Tory victory under Major
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Hung Parliament
    Narrow Tory Victory under Cameron
    Hung Parliament
    ?

    Correction..

    Thatcher - fucked working people (killed some)
    Major - fucked working people (killed some)
    Blair - fucked working people
    Brown - fucked working people (can pay for a war\bank bailout)
    cameron\clegg - fucked working people (killed some)
    May - fucked working people
    Johnson fucked working people (wants to kill the feckless and illegitimate if given opportunity)

    All politicians sponsored and endorsed by Rupert Murdoch and corrupt neo liberals for profit.
    Please. Blair and Brown never killed any working people? Where were you in 2003?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,236

    Nan and grandad one - part time shop assistant and road digger for the gpo to lay cables
    Nan and grandad two - housewife and bus driver
    Mum and dad - insurance claims handler/worked in a cafe and loss adjuster/ran a pub/storeman at a steel erection company
    Me - insurance claims, bank admin and team manager/ran a pub now on disability benefits and not working

    Raw 3/2/1 inputs - 1.5/1.5/1.2

    Gives 8.7 round to 9.

    Working class.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Endillion said:

    Byronic said:

    This twitter thread (which was posted below by nunu) is, prima facie, revelatory

    https://mobile.twitter.com/TracyAnnO/status/1203397839453380611

    If half of these anecdotes are in the vicinity of reality, then Labour could be headed for an unprecedented meltdown. Their people just won't come out and vote for Corbyn. They might not switch to Boris, Farage or Swinson, but they won't give the anti-semite their support, either.

    Labour could lose many dozens of seats. Maybe a hundred?

    It will be a bloodbath for Labour in the Midlands. Corbyn's support for the IRA may not resonate so much in other parts of the country, but here it is utterly toxic.

    Why do you think it is resonating this time, but didn't last time? In 2017, the papers went massive on terrorist sympathising, this time it is antisemitism and much less about his IRA mates. I honestly presumed the terrorist stuff was just now all factored in.

    It has been all over Tory social media efforts around here and it has been mentioned consistently by Johnson and co. May never used it in 2017.

    With the increased use of social media and micro-targeted adverts, I'd be surprised if CCHQ is not sending the IRA and Jewish stuff to appropriate recipients, while Labour does likewise with Boris's unfortunate past statements. Unless you are a Black Jewish Muslim whose granny suffers dementia and whose daughter needs a school place near the hospital in a marginal constituency, you will not see all the messages.

    I'm not at all sure this below-the-radar campaigning is good for democracy but we are where we are. For one thing, if Jo Swinson does not even know what Plaid Cymru says about her, she can hardly refute it.
    I am pretty confident that CCHQ is not actively targeting Jews with ads on Labour's anti-Semitism. Firstly, they don't need to; secondly; there aren't that many people who can be easily targeted; and thirdly, they've been pretty quiet on the issue over the past few years, preferring to let the media and Labour backbenchers make the running on what is, essentially, an internal Labour problem.
    Yep, just a Labour problem:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7767411/Tories-launch-anti-Semitism-probe-three-candidates.html
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    Stocky said:

    decrepiterjohnL: I can`t get the hang of this block quote thing.


    They do not have the "debt hanging over them" unless they choose to (incorrectly) think of it in those terms. It is a liability to pay a 9% higher income tax rate for 30 years. It is not a loan. No-one is ever going to ask you to repay it (other than through a higher income tax rate).

    That is why it is damn stupid politics from the self-styled strategic genius, George Osborne, because the debt is left hanging over people who will never have to repay it.
    Yep. It`s a shame that the statements are sent out to graduates each year. They are pointless and just cause needless worry.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited December 2019
    Byronic said:

    Labour, 1979 to 2019, a summary:

    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    and, barring a miracle,
    Defeat

    Can anyone see a pattern here?

    You've gotten over your panicked defeatism then?
    Granted, a repeat of 2017 seems unlikely given the available evidence.

    For @Chris, Labour since 1979, another summary:

    Second
    Second
    Second
    Second
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Second
    Second
    Second
    Probably Second

    Does that better fulfil your balance criterion? 😊
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Endillion said:

    Byronic said:

    This twitter thread (which was posted below by nunu) is, prima facie, revelatory

    https://mobile.twitter.com/TracyAnnO/status/1203397839453380611

    If half of these anecdotes are in the vicinity of reality, then Labour could be headed for an unprecedented meltdown. Their people just won't come out and vote for Corbyn. They might not switch to Boris, Farage or Swinson, but they won't give the anti-semite their support, either.

    Labour could lose many dozens of seats. Maybe a hundred?

    It will be a bloodbath for Labour in the Midlands. Corbyn's support for the IRA may not resonate so much in other parts of the country, but here it is utterly toxic.

    Why do you think it is resonating this time, but didn't last time? In 2017, the papers went massive on terrorist sympathising, this time it is antisemitism and much less about his IRA mates. I honestly presumed the terrorist stuff was just now all factored in.

    It has been all over Tory social media efforts around here and it has been mentioned consistently by Johnson and co. May never used it in 2017.

    With the increased use of social media and micro-targeted adverts, I'd be surprised if CCHQ is not sending the IRA and Jewish stuff to appropriate recipients, while Labour does likewise with Boris's unfortunate past statements. Unless you are a Black Jewish Muslim whose granny suffers dementia and whose daughter needs a school place near the hospital in a marginal constituency, you will not see all the messages.

    I'm not at all sure this below-the-radar campaigning is good for democracy but we are where we are. For one thing, if Jo Swinson does not even know what Plaid Cymru says about her, she can hardly refute it.
    I am pretty confident that CCHQ is not actively targeting Jews with ads on Labour's anti-Semitism. Firstly, they don't need to; secondly; there aren't that many people who can be easily targeted; and thirdly, they've been pretty quiet on the issue over the past few years, preferring to let the media and Labour backbenchers make the running on what is, essentially, an internal Labour problem.
    Yep, just a Labour problem:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7767411/Tories-launch-anti-Semitism-probe-three-candidates.html
    Different magnitude. One party is being reviewed by the equalities commission.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683

    So.... if the anecdata is correct and Corbyn is electoral cyanide - where do all his votes go?

    If you believe the anecdata, the polls seem to be massively overstating Labour's chances

    They won't go anywhere; they'll stay at home. This is why I expect turnout to be lower than 2017.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    edited December 2019
    melcf said:

    The saddest part, of all this media savagery towards Corbyn, is that the working classes have been brainwashed against him. This is the man who can lift them out from the mess they are in at the moment. They rather believe in a false, lying Etonian Prophet and his oven ready Brexit. Who, in reality, doesnt even think of them as ....hu...n

    Yep I agree. Those poor, dim, brain-washed working classes. They need Labour to stand up for them or they will continue clueless.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    kinabalu said:

    @Byronic

    So, expanding, you look at your Gs and your Ps and yourself and give each a grade, 1/2/3, where 1 is bottom tier and 3 is top tier. Can use decimals to 1 point.

    Then you weight 3/2/1 in favour of most recent, you, Ps, Gs. Then aggregate.

    Thus if you are 2.8, Ps are 2.5, Gs are 1.5, we generate 14.9.

    Round to 15.

    Which would be upper middle class.

    I know, I worked it out - see below. You confused me by forgetting to add education to the grandparent' slot

    I didn't use decimals tho, so with this latest info, I get 14.2. Posh-ish

    Interesting. But the British class system is so infinitely varied and nuanced, no formula can ever nail it

  • funkhauserfunkhauser Posts: 325
    edited December 2019
    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    RobD said:

    melcf said:

    RobD said:

    melcf said:

    melcf said:

    In 2010, 20£ at Tesco could buy my stuff worth 3-4 carrier bags.
    After 2016, that went down below Now I can barely fill one.
    Don't worry, I always have oven ready Brexit to eat!!

    So you'll be very happy to get Brexit done with the resulting cost reductions for food,footwear & clothing due UK no longer having to apply EU restrictive tariffs & quotas.
    Brexit was not about economics. It was more about immigration, or fear of immigration, nostalgia from pensioners and the working class revolting, after 6 years of Tory austerity. Take back control, is basically control in the hands of Rees Mogg and fellow aristocrats. Who ideally would like children to be going up the chimney and not the social ladder. Be real!
    Is there actually any point posting things like this here?
    Isn't this election all about an oven ready Brexit?? To cover 10 years of Tory misrule
    I was referring to the ridiculous comments about Tories wanting children up the chimney and the like.
    Chillax Robbie, not all Tories are mean, nasty, ugly dimwits. Most but not all.

    You truly happy that a mendacious disingenuous racist buffoon is likely to be our future PM? Do you honestly hand on heart think this piece of sh*t will bring our deeply divided country together? Seriously?
    Do you think any of the options would bring the country together? Corbyn wants another shot at the referendum, which would be divisive. And Swinson wants to bin democracy.

    And seriously, tone down the insults for goodness sake.
    Please don't switch the subject to Swinson or Corbyn. We can have a discussion about them later. I am asking you about JOHNSON! What do you think of him and his capabilities? Please answer the question!

    At least Johnson has not been referred to the the Equality & Human Rights commission for racism,the only other party that has managed that is the BNP ,which just shows how serious this issue is for Corbyn / Labour.
    Buddy - you a bot or just plain stupid? What value are you adding? It's not as if this place has not got enough right-wing halfwits furiously posting an alt-right view of the world! Jeez!

    Sorry you don't like facts getting in the way of your infantile rants.
    Do you ever read the garbage you post or just not very bright.

  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited December 2019

    RobD said:

    So.... if the anecdata is correct and Corbyn is electoral cyanide - where do all his votes go?

    If you believe the anecdata, the polls seem to be massively overstating Labour's chances

    Do they? They are pointing to a ten point deficit.
    Reading various anecdotes both here and the social media echo chamber, a ten point deficit looks too small which is a pity. I wanted a Boris minority govt.
    Reading these anecdotes you’d think Labour were on 20% .
  • nico67 said:

    If Labour do as badly as the polls suggest then of course a lot of that

    RobD said:

    So.... if the anecdata is correct and Corbyn is electoral cyanide - where do all his votes go?

    If you believe the anecdata, the polls seem to be massively overstating Labour's chances

    Do they? They are pointing to a ten point deficit.
    Reading various anecdotes both here and the social media echo chamber, a ten point deficit looks too small which is a pity. I wanted a Boris minority govt.
    Reading these anecdotes you’d think Labour were on 20% .
    They may well be in the places were we are getting these reports.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683

    Chris said:

    Labour, 1979 to 2019, a summary:

    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    and, barring a miracle,
    Defeat

    Can anyone see a pattern here?

    I think you could be a bit more balanced. Try:
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Narrow Tory victory under Major
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Hung Parliament
    Narrow Tory Victory under Cameron
    Hung Parliament
    ?

    Correction..

    Thatcher - fucked working people (killed some)
    Major - fucked working people (killed some)
    Blair - fucked working people
    Brown - fucked working people (can pay for a war\bank bailout)
    cameron\clegg - fucked working people (killed some)
    May - fucked working people
    Johnson fucked working people (wants to kill the feckless and illegitimate if given opportunity)

    All politicians sponsored and endorsed by Rupert Murdoch and corrupt neo liberals for profit.
    Who dare says that the quality of debate has gone downhill?
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728

    RobD said:

    So.... if the anecdata is correct and Corbyn is electoral cyanide - where do all his votes go?

    If you believe the anecdata, the polls seem to be massively overstating Labour's chances

    Do they? They are pointing to a ten point deficit.
    Reading various anecdotes both here and the social media echo chamber, a ten point deficit looks too small which is a pity. I wanted a Boris minority govt.
    It seems quite up in the air - reading the various articles about chatting to voters, looking at the polling and speaking to people there's a huge amount of "Oh I don't think I can or want to vote Labour under Corbyn, I don't quite know what I'll do" - but some of those will ultimately drift back, or just not bother rather than go over to the Tories.

    If they do decide to vote Tory, we're looking at a landslide, if they stay away or protest vote, probably comfortable majority, back into the Labour camp it's a narrow majority or hung parliament.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    alb1on said:

    Charles said:

    alb1on said:

    Charles said:

    alb1on said:

    Charles said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Johnson has just said on Ridge that the 'naughtiest thing he's prepared to admit to is riding his bicycle
    on the pavment'.

    Is that one of those change at Baker Street/ascending the OXO tower type euphemisms?
    He said he sometimes mounted without descending

    Someone with a dirtier mind than mine might construe a double entendre
    A natural consequence of watching the Benny Hill tribute act that is Boris.
    I know you’re a LibDem activist so that makes it hard but please try not to be so po-faced and relentlessly political the whole time
    I think that it is those (like you) who cannot poke fun at our leaders who are being po-faced. Lighten up. And I am not a LD activist (although I wil vote for them). Indeed, as I have said many times, I used to vote for Andrew Tyrie when I lived in Chichester - because he was an outstanding MP. I assume you are a party troll who cannot get his mind around the idea of quality v party. :)
    I was poking fun... you responded with an attack on Boris. All your comments are aggressively pro LibDem assertions with little statistical backing

    I voted conservative but am not a member of the party. And on the record as to my views of Boris’s quality... even in this thread I posted that I don’t like him
    Most of my posts about the LDs are to do with Surrey seats (where I live) or Winchester (where I used to live). Hence I do have some local knowledge. And in respect of Guildford, which I comment on most often, my point is that it is not easily amenable to statistical analysis due to the extreme local factors.
    You seem to have a problem with views you dislike. That is almost a definition of po-faced.
    Sure. But they always conclude that the LibDems are trouncing everyone, without the colour that @MarqueeMark provides

  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    eek said:

    Just been off to catch up on the Chris Williamson twitter feed - it's actually rather sad, still got his usual 'iffy' retweeting on things and then him and his handful of volunteers out and about with Labour bags and/or posters behind them... whilst not actually being the Labour candidate.

    https://twitter.com/DerbyChrisW/status/1203383650768818176?s=20

    How much is the pay-off for standing and losing?

    It depends on age and their length of time as an MP https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/happens-mp-loses-seat-524106 has some detail.

    For Chris williamson it may not actually be that much.
    Does his full term from the 2010 parliament count, or has he already banked the payoff from that after losing his seat in 2015?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited December 2019
    Mild, wet weather in England, some wintery weather in Scotland above Central Belt on Thursday.
  • i will be sad once the election period is over.

    Presumably the locking up of the likes of Francois and Bridgen will come to an end and we'll have to put with their puffery once more.

    Talking of which, what news of the wingnut in chief, Chris Williamson, is he nailed on to represent his Venezuelan constituency of Derby North?

    Look on the bright side. At least we will be rid of the usual election time Trolls, as exemplified this time around by MissScarlett and melcf.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    malcolmg said:

    RobD said:

    malcolmg said:

    TudorRose said:



    'I read on Twitter'; I think your problem starts there.

    You think BBC propaganda is more reliable than Twitter, " can I interest you in a Bridge Sir ".
    If someone is going to make claims that a program is biased, don't you think it is a requirement to have actually watched it first?
    Rob, If done by BBC you know it will be biased to the Tories, no need to watch it.
    Yes Toenails Robinson is such a Tory 🙄

    Anything short of a PPB for the SNP is biased to you.
    Nick Robinson was president of the Conservatives at Oxford, then worked for the party after graduating. Don't fall for the toenails spin.
    Ed Balls was supposedly in the Young Conservatives at Uni. That makes him...?
    https://www.thejc.com/image/policy:1.90069:1480909080/Oxford-student-Ed-Balls-in-Nazi-uniform.JPG?f=16x9&h=576&w=1024&$p$f$h$w=efe2de1
  • RobD said:

    Chris said:

    Labour, 1979 to 2019, a summary:

    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    and, barring a miracle,
    Defeat

    Can anyone see a pattern here?

    I think you could be a bit more balanced. Try:
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Narrow Tory victory under Major
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Hung Parliament
    Narrow Tory Victory under Cameron
    Hung Parliament
    ?

    Correction..

    Thatcher - fucked working people (killed some)
    Major - fucked working people (killed some)
    Blair - fucked working people
    Brown - fucked working people (can pay for a war\bank bailout)
    cameron\clegg - fucked working people (killed some)
    May - fucked working people
    Johnson fucked working people (wants to kill the feckless and illegitimate if given opportunity)

    All politicians sponsored and endorsed by Rupert Murdoch and corrupt neo liberals for profit.
    You are shameless.
    What is shameless about standing up to politicians that sellout all their values to be owned by a corrupt media and spend every day representing neo liberal corporations that give money in exchange for policies that screw over working people?

    Thatcher, Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron, May, Johnson are all people endorsed by Rupert Murdoch.

    All people have pandered to corporate interests for profit.

    Electricity sold for profit of the few screw working people.
    Healthcare sold for profit of the few screw working people.
    Railways sold for profit of the few screw working people
    Prisons sold for profit of the few screw working people

    Every industry every prime minister since thatcher have had policies designed to sell assets for the profit of a few and screw over working people.

    When we need a war..money found.
    When we need a bank bailoit.. Money found

    4million children in poverty...oh no we need to take more from them. Its a fucking scandal

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156
    edited December 2019

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    What does a non-authentic human being look like?

    Blond, messy hair, prone to fat, little piggy eyes, shirt hanging out?
    CCHQ is making a feature of Boris's trademark dishevelled look. Trademark because he tousles his hair before appearing on camera, and he could easily afford suits and shirts that properly fit. Boris's photo ops this election invariably show him mucking in with the workers, with protective clothing or jacket off and sleeves rolled up (but not neatly).

    It is clearly a deliberate tactic, and one that runs counter to the Cameron's mum advice taken by Corbyn and previous prime ministers (and Donald Trump, who always looks immaculate). It will be interesting after the election to read a 75,000-word blog post from Dominic Cummings explaining the rationale.
    It's already a part of Boris's image. Trying to make him seem neat and tidy would not convince and run counter to that. Whereas Corbyn did not have a high profile when he became leader, so his scruffiness was not part of a brand and just looked bad. He's looked quite dapper at times now.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:

    Byronic said:

    This twitter thread (which was posted below by nunu) is, prima facie, revelatory

    https://mobile.twitter.com/TracyAnnO/status/1203397839453380611

    If half of these anecdotes are in the vicinity of reality, then Labour could be headed for an unprecedented meltdown. Their people just won't come out and vote for Corbyn. They might not switch to Boris, Farage or Swinson, but they won't give the anti-semite their support, either.

    Labour could lose many dozens of seats. Maybe a hundred?

    It will be a bloodbath for Labour in the Midlands. Corbyn's support for the IRA may not resonate so much in other parts of the country, but here it is utterly toxic.

    Why do you think it is resonating this time, but didn't last time? In 2017, the papers went massive on terrorist sympathising, this time it is antisemitism and much less about his IRA mates. I honestly presumed the terrorist stuff was just now all factored in.

    It has been all over Tory social media efforts around here and it has been mentioned consistently by Johnson and co. May never used it in 2017.

    With the increased use of social media and micro-targeted adverts, I'd be surprised if CCHQ is not sending the IRA and Jewish stuff to appropriate recipients, while Labour does likewise with Boris's unfortunate past statements. Unless you are a Black Jewish Muslim whose granny suffers dementia and whose daughter needs a school place near the hospital in a marginal constituency, you will not see all the messages.

    I'm not at all sure this below-the-radar campaigning is good for democracy but we are where we are. For one thing, if Jo Swinson does not even know what Plaid Cymru says about her, she can hardly refute it.
    I am pretty confident that CCHQ is not actively targeting Jews with ads on Labour's anti-Semitism. Firstly, they don't need to; secondly; there aren't that many people who can be easily targeted; and thirdly, they've been pretty quiet on the issue over the past few years, preferring to let the media and Labour backbenchers make the running on what is, essentially, an internal Labour problem.
    Yep, just a Labour problem:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7767411/Tories-launch-anti-Semitism-probe-three-candidates.html
    I never said it's only an issue for one party; just that the Tories aren't actively weaponising it on social media. Do you believe differently?
  • I always said e-sports was full of weirdos....




  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    BluerBlue said:

    Endillion said:

    America and Murdoch will watching the election very closely - Johnson\Corbyn could be Trump\Sanders in November 2020.

    Only difference is that the sanders progressive wing have an active media voice that holds Trump to account and won't tolerate lies (trump has a lie tracker over 15000). The UK press across print, radio and television have been utterly shameless in their bias at getting Johnson elected. The BBC needs a massive clear out.. To many diehard Tories in senior positions.

    The cool thing about Corbyn is he somehow manages to combine the worst traits of both Trump and Sanders. Or at least his followers do - I wonder sometimes if Corbyn is aware of some of the more egregious output from the likes of Bastani.
    You clearly have never met any trump or sanders supporters.

    Trump supporters are basically like Boris Johnson - support racism, homophobia, dividing people and blaming everything on immigrants or people of colour.
    I see the day's virtue-signalling has begun with much aplomb and little originality! :smile:

    p.s. I would probably fall under your definition of "people of colour", and I would rather blow my own head off than vote for Corbyn. Hope that helps make things clear.
    I’m ginger. Does that make me a “person of colour”?
  • TudorRose said:

    Chris said:

    Labour, 1979 to 2019, a summary:

    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    and, barring a miracle,
    Defeat

    Can anyone see a pattern here?

    I think you could be a bit more balanced. Try:
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Narrow Tory victory under Major
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Hung Parliament
    Narrow Tory Victory under Cameron
    Hung Parliament
    ?

    Correction..

    Thatcher - fucked working people (killed some)
    Major - fucked working people (killed some)
    Blair - fucked working people
    Brown - fucked working people (can pay for a war\bank bailout)
    cameron\clegg - fucked working people (killed some)
    May - fucked working people
    Johnson fucked working people (wants to kill the feckless and illegitimate if given opportunity)

    All politicians sponsored and endorsed by Rupert Murdoch and corrupt neo liberals for profit.
    Who dare says that the quality of debate has gone downhill?
    Stop buying the corrupt media and voting for neo liberals and guess what the corruption stops.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156

    So.... if the anecdata is correct and Corbyn is electoral cyanide - where do all his votes go?

    If you believe the anecdata, the polls seem to be massively overstating Labour's chances

    I don't think so - no one seems to deny that Labour, and even Corbyn himself, do have many millions of supporters, whether passionate or just tribal. The anecdata, if true, would simply support a larger Tory majority rather than a smaller one, and the range of polling has plenty of results which suggest a larger majority is possible.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Byronic said:

    This twitter thread (which was posted below by nunu) is, prima facie, revelatory

    https://mobile.twitter.com/TracyAnnO/status/1203397839453380611

    If half of these anecdotes are in the vicinity of reality, then Labour could be headed for an unprecedented meltdown. Their people just won't come out and vote for Corbyn. They might not switch to Boris, Farage or Swinson, but they won't give the anti-semite their support, either.

    Labour could lose many dozens of seats. Maybe a hundred?

    It will be a bloodbath for Labour in the Midlands. Corbyn's support for the IRA may not resonate so much in other parts of the country, but here it is utterly toxic.

    Why do you think it is resonating this time, but didn't last time? In 2017, the papers went massive on terrorist sympathising, this time it is antisemitism and much less about his IRA mates. I honestly presumed the terrorist stuff was just now all factored in.

    It has been all over Tory social media efforts around here and it has been mentioned consistently by Johnson and co. May never used it in 2017.

    With the increased use of social media and micro-targeted adverts, I'd be surprised if CCHQ is not sending the IRA and Jewish stuff to appropriate recipients, while Labour does likewise with Boris's unfortunate past statements. Unless you are a Black Jewish Muslim whose granny suffers dementia and whose daughter needs a school place near the hospital in a marginal constituency, you will not see all the messages.

    I'm not at all sure this below-the-radar campaigning is good for democracy but we are where we are. For one thing, if Jo Swinson does not even know what Plaid Cymru says about her, she can hardly refute it.
    I am pretty confident that CCHQ is not actively targeting Jews with ads on Labour's anti-Semitism. Firstly, they don't need to; secondly; there aren't that many people who can be easily targeted; and thirdly, they've been pretty quiet on the issue over the past few years, preferring to let the media and Labour backbenchers make the running on what is, essentially, an internal Labour problem.
    Yep, just a Labour problem:

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7767411/Tories-launch-anti-Semitism-probe-three-candidates.html
    I never said it's only an issue for one party; just that the Tories aren't actively weaponising it on social media. Do you believe differently?
    No - I'm guilty of skim-reading your post and focusing on the last phrase.

    I stand corrected.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    OK, so I just did an interesting experiment, to try and turn anecdote into anecdata-ish.

    I did a Twitter search on the words "Corbyn" and "doorstep".

    Arguably this search is biassed against Corbyn, because it's an established idea: that he is unpopular on the doorstep. However, it's not THAT biassed, because there are lots more lefty activists and canvassers on Twitter, than right wing ones, and if Corbyn was going down well on the doorstep, they would certainly tell us.

    The result? Corbyn is OVERWHELMINGLY unpopular. 19 out of 20 tweets (maybe more) say something negative about the doorstep reception of Corbyn

    Here's just a couple

    https://twitter.com/delirioushappy/status/1203027450223112194?s=20

    https://twitter.com/VirtualDom/status/1203012145581084674?s=20

    https://twitter.com/DannyAllman97/status/1202727351966191622?s=20

    Of course this is social media and maybe a bubble, but tasty food for thought..
  • melcfmelcf Posts: 166

    RobD said:

    Chris said:

    Labour, 1979 to 2019, a summary:

    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    and, barring a miracle,
    Defeat

    Can anyone see a pattern here?

    I think you could be a bit more balanced. Try:
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Narrow Tory victory under Major
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Hung Parliament
    Narrow Tory Victory under Cameron
    Hung Parliament
    ?

    Correction..

    Thatcher - fucked working people (killed some)
    Major - fucked working people (killed some)
    Blair - fucked working people
    Brown - fucked working people (can pay for a war\bank bailout)
    cameron\clegg - fucked working people (killed some)
    May - fucked working people
    Johnson fucked working people (wants to kill the feckless and illegitimate if given opportunity)

    All politicians sponsored and endorsed by Rupert Murdoch and corrupt neo liberals for profit.
    You are shameless.
    What is shameless about standing up to politicians that sellout all their values to be owned by a corrupt media and spend every day representing neo liberal corporations that give money in exchange for policies that screw over working people?

    Thatcher, Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron, May, Johnson are all people endorsed by Rupert Murdoch.

    All people have pandered to corporate interests for profit.

    Electricity sold for profit of the few screw working people.
    Healthcare sold for profit of the few screw working people.
    Railways sold for profit of the few screw working people
    Prisons sold for profit of the few screw working people

    Every industry every prime minister since thatcher have had policies designed to sell assets for the profit of a few and screw over working people.

    When we need a war..money found.
    When we need a bank bailoit.. Money found

    4million children in poverty...oh no we need to take more from them. Its a fucking scandal

    Sad, people are happy to wallow in muck but not take the leap of faith. Happy for Bojo and his chums to crash the economy, with no deal. However lordie lordie lordie, anything that Corbyn touches will be turned to ashes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156

    RobD said:

    Chris said:

    Labour, 1979 to 2019, a summary:

    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    and, barring a miracle,
    Defeat

    Can anyone see a pattern here?

    I think you could be a bit more balanced. Try:
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Narrow Tory victory under Major
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Hung Parliament
    Narrow Tory Victory under Cameron
    Hung Parliament
    ?

    Correction..

    Thatcher - fucked working people (killed some)
    Major - fucked working people (killed some)
    Blair - fucked working people
    Brown - fucked working people (can pay for a war\bank bailout)
    cameron\clegg - fucked working people (killed some)
    May - fucked working people
    Johnson fucked working people (wants to kill the feckless and illegitimate if given opportunity)

    All politicians sponsored and endorsed by Rupert Murdoch and corrupt neo liberals for profit.
    You are shameless.
    What is shameless about standing up to politicians that sellout all their values to be owned by a corrupt media and spend every day representing neo liberal corporations that give money in exchange for policies that screw over working people?

    Thatcher, Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron, May, Johnson are all people endorsed by Rupert Murdoch.

    It must be nice for everything to be so simple that all those leader, good and bad, can have all accomplishments thrown out because they were endorsed by Murdoch. I guess none of them ever achieved a damn thing for the country, including the very poorest, unlike people who did not 'sell out'.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Charles said:

    BluerBlue said:

    Endillion said:

    America and Murdoch will watching the election very closely - Johnson\Corbyn could be Trump\Sanders in November 2020.

    Only difference is that the sanders progressive wing have an active media voice that holds Trump to account and won't tolerate lies (trump has a lie tracker over 15000). The UK press across print, radio and television have been utterly shameless in their bias at getting Johnson elected. The BBC needs a massive clear out.. To many diehard Tories in senior positions.

    The cool thing about Corbyn is he somehow manages to combine the worst traits of both Trump and Sanders. Or at least his followers do - I wonder sometimes if Corbyn is aware of some of the more egregious output from the likes of Bastani.
    You clearly have never met any trump or sanders supporters.

    Trump supporters are basically like Boris Johnson - support racism, homophobia, dividing people and blaming everything on immigrants or people of colour.
    I see the day's virtue-signalling has begun with much aplomb and little originality! :smile:

    p.s. I would probably fall under your definition of "people of colour", and I would rather blow my own head off than vote for Corbyn. Hope that helps make things clear.
    I’m ginger. Does that make me a “person of colour”?
    No Charles, it does not.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    kinabalu said:

    Nan and grandad one - part time shop assistant and road digger for the gpo to lay cables
    Nan and grandad two - housewife and bus driver
    Mum and dad - insurance claims handler/worked in a cafe and loss adjuster/ran a pub/storeman at a steel erection company
    Me - insurance claims, bank admin and team manager/ran a pub now on disability benefits and not working

    Raw 3/2/1 inputs - 1.5/1.5/1.2

    Gives 8.7 round to 9.

    Working class.
    Nan and grandad x2 looking down and nodding, even if nan on mums side was convinced we were descended from royalty somewhere down the line
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    How do you know?

    With class, apart from obvious cases, we are more in the realms of opinion. However, one can attempt something a little more robust -

    Grandparents occupation and finances.
    Parents education, occupation and finances.
    Own education, occupation and finances.

    Score each of the above 1/2/3 and then weight 1/2/3 to give most weight to the most recent.

    Top score = 18. That's a poshboy (girl).
    Bottom score = 6. That's 24 carat oik.

    Rayner is 11.

    And if you're interested, I am 12.

    You're a 9.

    I sense.
    My mum was a teacher, my dad left school at 16 and went to work in the family shop.

    What does that make me?
  • Twitter

    Wow this video really brings home what Corbyn’s antisemitism has brought about in our society. We’ve all become weary, maybe even tired, of talking about Labour Antisemitism, but it is an utter poison. https://t.co/Ms3iNys9bj
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917
    edited December 2019
    TOPPING said:

    melcf said:

    The saddest part, of all this media savagery towards Corbyn, is that the working classes have been brainwashed against him. This is the man who can lift them out from the mess they are in at the moment. They rather believe in a false, lying Etonian Prophet and his oven ready Brexit. Who, in reality, doesnt even think of them as ....hu...n

    Yep I agree. Those poor, dim, brain-washed working classes. They need Labour to stand up for them or they will continue clueless.
    Labour had one golden chance to stand up and represent their working class heartlands: vote for May's deal. They did not, they have shithoused around on Brexit instead, and deserve zero respect from said voters.
  • Mr Farage revealed that he’s already registered a new political group – the Reform Party – to replace the Brexit Party if the UK leaves the EU.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Twitter

    Wow this video really brings home what Corbyn’s antisemitism has brought about in our society. We’ve all become weary, maybe even tired, of talking about Labour Antisemitism, but it is an utter poison. https://t.co/Ms3iNys9bj

    In your party too @Big_G_NorthWales

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7767411/Tories-launch-anti-Semitism-probe-three-candidates.html
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nico67 said:

    If Labour do as badly as the polls suggest then of course a lot of that

    RobD said:

    So.... if the anecdata is correct and Corbyn is electoral cyanide - where do all his votes go?

    If you believe the anecdata, the polls seem to be massively overstating Labour's chances

    Do they? They are pointing to a ten point deficit.
    Reading various anecdotes both here and the social media echo chamber, a ten point deficit looks too small which is a pity. I wanted a Boris minority govt.
    Reading these anecdotes you’d think Labour were on 20% .
    They may well be in the places were we are getting these reports.
    I’ve said sub 200 since day one nothing to alter that view, Tory majority 60+ no real ide about the Lib Dems but hoping for 20+
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156
    melcf said:

    RobD said:

    Chris said:

    Labour, 1979 to 2019, a summary:

    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    and, barring a miracle,
    Defeat

    Can anyone see a pattern here?

    I think you could be a bit more balanced. Try:
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Narrow Tory victory under Major
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Hung Parliament
    Narrow Tory Victory under Cameron
    Hung Parliament
    ?

    Correction..

    Thatcher - fucked working people (killed some)
    Major - fucked working people (killed some)
    Blair - fucked working people
    Brown - fucked working people (can pay for a war\bank bailout)
    cameron\clegg - fucked working people (killed some)
    May - fucked working people
    Johnson fucked working people (wants to kill the feckless and illegitimate if given opportunity)

    All politicians sponsored and endorsed by Rupert Murdoch and corrupt neo liberals for profit.
    You are shameless.
    What is shameless about standing up to politicians that sellout all their values to be owned by a corrupt media and spend every day representing neo liberal corporations that give money in exchange for policies that screw over working people?

    Thatcher, Major, Blair, Brown, Cameron, May, Johnson are all people endorsed by Rupert Murdoch.

    All people have pandered to corporate interests for profit.

    Electricity sold for profit of the few screw working people.
    Healthcare sold for profit of the few screw working people.
    Railways sold for profit of the few screw working people
    Prisons sold for profit of the few screw working people

    Every industry every prime minister since thatcher have had policies designed to sell assets for the profit of a few and screw over working people.

    When we need a war..money found.
    When we need a bank bailoit.. Money found

    4million children in poverty...oh no we need to take more from them. Its a fucking scandal

    Sad, people are happy to wallow in muck but not take the leap of faith. Happy for Bojo and his chums to crash the economy, with no deal. However lordie lordie lordie, anything that Corbyn touches will be turned to ashes.
    Corbyn may well not be as bad as many people fear. If nothing else I suspect his competence means he would not manage to do many of the things he would like, in fact I am banking on that by hoping for a brief hung parliament. But people have reason to fear his premiership even if they also fear a Boris premiership. The best hope for a Boris one is, counter intuitively, his utter shamlessness meaning we cannot be sure of what he'd do, but that's hardly a positive.

    But nor does it mean fears of Corbyn government as silly.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    Chris said:

    Labour, 1979 to 2019, a summary:

    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    and, barring a miracle,
    Defeat

    Can anyone see a pattern here?

    I think you could be a bit more balanced. Try:
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Narrow Tory victory under Major
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Hung Parliament
    Narrow Tory Victory under Cameron
    Hung Parliament
    ?

    You can be as balanced as you but Blair is the only Labour leader to win a majority (3 in fact) in knocking on for half a century and the idiots in the membership thought it would be a great idea to hound all the Blarites out of the party. Stunning strategy
  • No shit....

    Mr McDonnell says the £58bn pledged to women who lost out as a result of changes to the pension age will mostly be funded by government borrowing.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Watching mel/scarlet have a conversation with her/himself is making my afternoon
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    Mr Farage revealed that he’s already registered a new political group – the Reform Party – to replace the Brexit Party if the UK leaves the EU.

    Is he going for a record or something?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Twitter

    Wow this video really brings home what Corbyn’s antisemitism has brought about in our society. We’ve all become weary, maybe even tired, of talking about Labour Antisemitism, but it is an utter poison. https://t.co/Ms3iNys9bj

    In your party too @Big_G_NorthWales

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7767411/Tories-launch-anti-Semitism-probe-three-candidates.html
    Systemic in Labour though, hence the investigation.
  • Looks like nothing much has happened while I've been in USA for the last 10 days...

    On topic, momentum aren't the only canvassers in a constituency so does the premise of labour difficulties in constituencies with 'moderate' labour candidates stack up?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Mr Farage revealed that he’s already registered a new political group – the Reform Party – to replace the Brexit Party if the UK leaves the EU.

    Oh god that's depressing. The one upside of seeing BoJo romp home imo was my imagined consignment of Farage to the bin of history.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683

    TudorRose said:

    Chris said:

    Labour, 1979 to 2019, a summary:

    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    and, barring a miracle,
    Defeat

    Can anyone see a pattern here?

    I think you could be a bit more balanced. Try:
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Thatcher
    Narrow Tory victory under Major
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Hung Parliament
    Narrow Tory Victory under Cameron
    Hung Parliament
    ?

    Correction..

    Thatcher - fucked working people (killed some)
    Major - fucked working people (killed some)
    Blair - fucked working people
    Brown - fucked working people (can pay for a war\bank bailout)
    cameron\clegg - fucked working people (killed some)
    May - fucked working people
    Johnson fucked working people (wants to kill the feckless and illegitimate if given opportunity)

    All politicians sponsored and endorsed by Rupert Murdoch and corrupt neo liberals for profit.
    Who dare says that the quality of debate has gone downhill?
    Stop buying the corrupt media and voting for neo liberals and guess what the corruption stops.
    Can I suggest you do some research on whether there is/was corruption (in the media and elsewhere) in 'Socialist' states? Regardless of policies, a Corbyn government won't stop corruption. Indeed the centralisation of power is likely to increase it; history tells us this.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Chris said:

    I am considering placing a small wager on a Tory majority. (Betfair Exchange, 1.34-1.35.)

    Can anyone come up with any cogent arguments against that?

    Tail risk. But the potential return covers that.
  • What is Nige Reform Party going to campaign for? Reform the EU from the outside?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,236
    edited December 2019
    Byronic said:

    I know, I worked it out - see below. You confused me by forgetting to add education to the grandparent' slot

    I didn't use decimals tho, so with this latest info, I get 14.2. Posh-ish

    Interesting. But the British class system is so infinitely varied and nuanced, no formula can ever nail it.

    Yes, posh but only ish. Perfect.

    Totally agree about how complex it is. My system is just a way of getting a marker that, for example, can show up obvious bullshit. Say somebody claims to be working class and I do them and I get your score, 14. Well then they are romancing.

    NB: education is deliberately out of gramps since I consider schooling then to be too distant to matter. Arguable of course.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156

    No shit....

    Mr McDonnell says the £58bn pledged to women who lost out as a result of changes to the pension age will mostly be funded by government borrowing.

    Terrible, terrible policy. How can even the WASPI's themselves seriously think that is a good idea?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    RobD said:

    Twitter

    Wow this video really brings home what Corbyn’s antisemitism has brought about in our society. We’ve all become weary, maybe even tired, of talking about Labour Antisemitism, but it is an utter poison. https://t.co/Ms3iNys9bj

    In your party too @Big_G_NorthWales

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7767411/Tories-launch-anti-Semitism-probe-three-candidates.html
    Systemic in Labour though, hence the investigation.
    Yes, well, it's the main reason I am not voting Labour this time.
  • Twitter

    Wow this video really brings home what Corbyn’s antisemitism has brought about in our society. We’ve all become weary, maybe even tired, of talking about Labour Antisemitism, but it is an utter poison. https://t.co/Ms3iNys9bj

    In your party too @Big_G_NorthWales

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7767411/Tories-launch-anti-Semitism-probe-three-candidates.html
    Difference is we will deal with it and we are not under investigation by the EHRC
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The interesting thing from the DeltaPoll is on a second EU ref.

    54 Remain
    46 Leave

    Also interesting is that the Tories voteshare is made up of 23% Remainers from 2016.

    Alots been made of them hoovering up Leave voters but less is made of the trend for them to hold onto a decent share of Remainers.

    If I’m being blunt Corbyn could have acted in two ways , alienating its Leave voters , then frightening some pro EU Tories away from the Lib Dems .

    When we look back the fact Johnson got a deal also assuaged some of those fears from pro EU Tories , it also hurt the Lib Dems .

    And of course Farage standing down in those Tory seats hurt the Lib Dems .

    The stars have really aligned for Johnson to get his decent majority , if the Tories can’t win this election then it would be a very big shock .

    As for Labours fudge Brexit position , although it’s been criticized it really was the only landing place. It was the least worst option .
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited December 2019
    kle4 said:

    No shit....

    Mr McDonnell says the £58bn pledged to women who lost out as a result of changes to the pension age will mostly be funded by government borrowing.

    Terrible, terrible policy. How can even the WASPI's themselves seriously think that is a good idea?
    Like PPI claims, people think somebody else is paying for it.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Endillion said:

    OK, serious question. I've been trawling through the parties' list of candidates on their own websites (don't ask) and have discovered that:

    - Safia Ali, Labour candidate for Falkirk; and
    - Waheed Rafiq, Lib Dem candidate for Birmingham, Hodge Hill,

    are both listed as official candidates for their respective parties, despite having supposedly been struck off for anti-Semitism.

    Anyone know why they might have been let back in, or is this just incompetence? If not does anyone have some email addresses I can issue complaints to, or should I just use their complaint forms and hope?

    Also any other suspended candidates I've forgotten about?

    Do you really think that if either of them (or the former Tory in ?Aberdeen) won they wouldn’t take the party whip?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    What is Nige Reform Party going to campaign for? Reform the EU from the outside?

    Voting reform and putting the Lords out to pasture he says
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    kle4 said:

    No shit....

    Mr McDonnell says the £58bn pledged to women who lost out as a result of changes to the pension age will mostly be funded by government borrowing.

    Terrible, terrible policy. How can even the WASPI's themselves seriously think that is a good idea?
    Because they get a cheque for £20k in the post..or at least think they will.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited December 2019

    What is Nige Reform Party going to campaign for? Reform the EU from the outside?

    Voting reform and putting the Lords out to pasture he says
    That has f##k all chance of gaining any momentum. The only people who get excited by that are political geeks...even the Lib Dems don't bother going on about it these days.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    How do you know?

    With class, apart from obvious cases, we are more in the realms of opinion. However, one can attempt something a little more robust -

    Grandparents occupation and finances.
    Parents education, occupation and finances.
    Own education, occupation and finances.

    Score each of the above 1/2/3 and then weight 1/2/3 to give most weight to the most recent.

    Top score = 18. That's a poshboy (girl).
    Bottom score = 6. That's 24 carat oik.

    Rayner is 11.

    And if you're interested, I am 12.

    You're a 9.

    I sense.
    My mum was a teacher, my dad left school at 16 and went to work in the family shop.

    What does that make me?
    Very rich and extremely well-connected by all accounts.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    Byronic said:

    Labour, 1979 to 2019, a summary:

    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    and, barring a miracle,
    Defeat

    Can anyone see a pattern here?

    You've gotten over your panicked defeatism then?
    Granted, a repeat of 2017 seems unlikely given the available evidence.

    For @Chris, Labour since 1979, another summary:

    Second
    Second
    Second
    Second
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Second
    Second
    Second
    Probably Second

    Does that better fulfil your balance criterion? 😊
    Thanks. That's a bit better. Now we just have to address the starting and stopping criteria :-)
  • Boris Johnson vs Melanie On (labour Grimsby mp)

    Johnson - get brexit done.
    Melanie (labour mp) - I voted for the bill and it passed. Why did you call an election?
    Johnson - I want brexit done. Vote conservative in Grimsby.
    Melanie (labour mp) - I voted for the brexit bill more times than you did.
    Johnson - the labour party stopped brexit.
    Melanie (labour mp) - no your MPs stopped it. Twice you rebelled against mays deal and on your bill your MPs voted against it so it failed. I voted for it your MPs in the south voted against it.
    Johnson - waffles...blusters..get brexit done vote Tory in Grimsby.
    Melanie - replace my vote for brexit for a Tory voting for brexit. Makes total sense!!!!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Chris said:

    Byronic said:

    Labour, 1979 to 2019, a summary:

    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Defeat
    Defeat
    Defeat
    and, barring a miracle,
    Defeat

    Can anyone see a pattern here?

    You've gotten over your panicked defeatism then?
    Granted, a repeat of 2017 seems unlikely given the available evidence.

    For @Chris, Labour since 1979, another summary:

    Second
    Second
    Second
    Second
    Blair
    Blair
    Blair
    Second
    Second
    Second
    Probably Second

    Does that better fulfil your balance criterion? 😊
    Thanks. That's a bit better. Now we just have to address the starting and stopping criteria :-)
    Last forty years seems reasonable? :p
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Twitter

    Wow this video really brings home what Corbyn’s antisemitism has brought about in our society. We’ve all become weary, maybe even tired, of talking about Labour Antisemitism, but it is an utter poison. https://t.co/Ms3iNys9bj

    In your party too @Big_G_NorthWales

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7767411/Tories-launch-anti-Semitism-probe-three-candidates.html
    Difference is we will deal with it and we are not under investigation by the EHRC
    I agree on your second point, I have yet to see evidence of the first.

    Is Sally-Ann Hart still the Tory candidate in Hastings & Rye despite this latest revelation and her outrageous comments about disabled workers, or have the Tories disowned her?
  • Boris Johnson vs Melanie On (labour Grimsby mp)

    Johnson - get brexit done.
    Melanie (labour mp) - I voted for the bill and it passed. Why did you call an election?
    Johnson - I want brexit done. Vote conservative in Grimsby.
    Melanie (labour mp) - I voted for the brexit bill more times than you did.
    Johnson - the labour party stopped brexit.
    Melanie (labour mp) - no your MPs stopped it. Twice you rebelled against mays deal and on your bill your MPs voted against it so it failed. I voted for it your MPs in the south voted against it.
    Johnson - waffles...blusters..get brexit done vote Tory in Grimsby.
    Melanie - replace my vote for brexit for a Tory voting for brexit. Makes total sense!!!!

    Yes it does
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,156

    Mr Farage revealed that he’s already registered a new political group – the Reform Party – to replace the Brexit Party if the UK leaves the EU.

    Oh god that's depressing. The one upside of seeing BoJo romp home imo was my imagined consignment of Farage to the bin of history.
    Why doesn't he just change the name? Or join the LDs if he wants to change the voting system and HoL.

    If he thinks he will get much limelight with some new grouping he has another thing coming.
  • Charles said:

    BluerBlue said:

    Endillion said:

    America and Murdoch will watching the election very closely - Johnson\Corbyn could be Trump\Sanders in November 2020.

    Only difference is that the sanders progressive wing have an active media voice that holds Trump to account and won't tolerate lies (trump has a lie tracker over 15000). The UK press across print, radio and television have been utterly shameless in their bias at getting Johnson elected. The BBC needs a massive clear out.. To many diehard Tories in senior positions.

    The cool thing about Corbyn is he somehow manages to combine the worst traits of both Trump and Sanders. Or at least his followers do - I wonder sometimes if Corbyn is aware of some of the more egregious output from the likes of Bastani.
    You clearly have never met any trump or sanders supporters.

    Trump supporters are basically like Boris Johnson - support racism, homophobia, dividing people and blaming everything on immigrants or people of colour.
    I see the day's virtue-signalling has begun with much aplomb and little originality! :smile:

    p.s. I would probably fall under your definition of "people of colour", and I would rather blow my own head off than vote for Corbyn. Hope that helps make things clear.
    I’m ginger. Does that make me a “person of colour”?
    You could probably find people willing to argue, in all seriousness, that you were the victim of historic, systemic, and institutional discrimination...
  • There is an eery quietness about the situation on the ground. I would like more reports from Northern/Midlands leave seats, where the majority will be won or lost.

    Theres a bit of talk about Labour struggling, but not a huge amount to go on.
This discussion has been closed.