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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A suggested new cross-break for GE2019 pollsters – separate nu

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  • Cookie said:

    I don't know what the mood on the ground is in the West Midlands. But in the NE the visceral hate for Labour is something to behold. They really are despised by people who should have been comfortable bankers for the reds. Whether that means punters manage to coalesce around the best alternative remains to be seen.
    They did manage to do so in May at the local elections....

    What is the cause of the loathing? Marxism does not appeal? Corbyn is unelectable? Brexit? Anti_semitism? All of the above?
    If I might - as a middle class, public sector, big city, suburbanite - be sold bold as to venture an opinion based on the shamefully small population I know outside my own catchment - it's that Corbyn in particular and the Labour Party in general appears not to like them very much. Or at all. As someone said upthread, it's a visceral dislike, not an intellectual dislike: an instinctive reaction based on years and years of - as Seant so memorably put it - multicultural this and anti-austerity that and transgender the other. Leading to a feeling that this was a pretty difficult party to identify with.
    From what people have told me, Brexit woke them up. For decades "the Tories" was the lazy excuse. Shit job? Shit prospects? Not happy? Blame The Tories. Richard IQ Burgon pulled the same line last night in the debate. Adam Price blames Labour in government in Wales for the Welsh NHS. IQ attacks Price for not attacking the Tories for something Labour are directly responsible for.
    So it was easy to blame the Tories. Especially in Easington and Boro and post industrial towns. Yet Labour have represented these towns and run these towns since the Vikings left. Brexit made people think "hang on". And that Labour apparently don't get their concerns (rightly if they think crash Brexit fixes things) just makes them angry. Proper angry. I watched Question Time from South Shields. The audience was labelled as all Brexiteer. It was. Not all Brexit Party. Should have been able to weigh in the Labour vote there. Not any more
    Exactly the same as in Scotland. Shut up and vote Labour. Return 50 MPs. Watch as they can do nothing in the face of managed economic decline in the 1980s/1990s. Vote for Labour councils. Watch as they don't build any houses, and fail to pay female workers properly.

    Lose an election, ignore it. The voters will come to their senses. Lose another election. Ignore it. The voters will come home soon. Lose another election...
  • Johnny Bairstow would have caught that.

    Why didn't England take Foakes or Bairstow at least as back-up?
    There's stories that Foakes is a bad tourist when he's not playing, and the selectors think Bairstow could do with a break.

    I think YJB's is out in South Africa prepping for the Saffers tour.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    Did @HYUFD report back on the results of plugging that ICM poll into Electoral Calculus by any chance?

    Don't know if that's meant as a serious request, but I did it anyway. Plugged the ICM numbers into the main prediction and used the most recent Scotland-only poll for parts North of the Tweed.

    Result: Con 314, Lab 252, SNP 47, LD 15.

    2017 part 2, right down to the DUP controlling (probably, just about) the balance of power. That'd be fun, wouldn't it?
    Electoral Calculus is hopeless, went from grossly over UNS to now grossly under
    I have never trusted it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,613
    glw said:

    https://twitter.com/cathynewman/status/1201609962885177344

    Labour spokesperson in "We've no idea how we're going to pay for all this stuff" shocker.

    I don't think there are many people in the political sphere who over the last few years have seen their reputation fall by as much as Chakrabarti's has.
    And when did she join the cast of the Addams Family?
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    HYUFD said:

    Did @HYUFD report back on the results of plugging that ICM poll into Electoral Calculus by any chance?

    Don't know if that's meant as a serious request, but I did it anyway. Plugged the ICM numbers into the main prediction and used the most recent Scotland-only poll for parts North of the Tweed.

    Result: Con 314, Lab 252, SNP 47, LD 15.

    2017 part 2, right down to the DUP controlling (probably, just about) the balance of power. That'd be fun, wouldn't it?
    Electoral Calculus is hopeless, went from grossly over UNS to now grossly under
    Well ICM has a 7% Conservative lead with the Brexit Party on 3%, in my swingometer that results in Conservatives short by 2 on a 1% swing from LAB to CON in Labour seats. UNS though gives it as a majority of around 30.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    andy3664 said:

    Talked to a number of floating voters today who were appalled by Johnson's TV interview yesterday and as a result will definitely not be voting Tory.

    Anecdotal but he's pissed off a lot of people around my way
    But who can people vote for? We hear reports of Labour haemmoraging support, apparently Boris is disliked, the polls say he is on for anything from minority govt to a landslide and the LDs have disappeared from sight.
    Who the heck can people vote for?
    I am not expecting Caroline Lucas PM who else is left? Farage?
    That's what points the way back to 2017. Most people won't vote for something, they'll vote against. Terrified Tories go to Johnson to stop Corbyn, despondent Labourites cling to Corbyn to stop the Tories. Everyone else gets crushed in the middle.
  • No one still seems the wiser of how Epstein could afford not one, but two private Islands in the Caribbean.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    So tempted to to do a joke about what do Prince Andrew and Ian Lavery have in common....

    You owe me a new keyboard.
    WAAAAY too much information...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    nico67 said:

    Panorama is turning into a horror show for Prince Andrew.

    Virginia Roberts seems very convincing .

    This is tomorrows media obssesion and maybe longer
    Monarchy on the ropes during a GE. I can’t remember that ever happening before.
    Bad for the Tories?
    Cannot see the connection to be fair
    People equate the two, Johnson has reinforced that with his "monarchy is above reproach" shtick, and don't whatever you do mention David Rowland for the next couple of weeks. I have never heard of him - never, do you hear me? - and nor has the tory party.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited December 2019

    andy3664 said:

    Talked to a number of floating voters today who were appalled by Johnson's TV interview yesterday and as a result will definitely not be voting Tory.

    Anecdotal but he's pissed off a lot of people around my way
    But who can people vote for? We hear reports of Labour haemmoraging support, apparently Boris is disliked, the polls say he is on for anything from minority govt to a landslide and the LDs have disappeared from sight.
    Who the heck can people vote for?
    I am not expecting Caroline Lucas PM who else is left? Farage?
    That's what points the way back to 2017. Most people won't vote for something, they'll vote against. Terrified Tories go to Johnson to stop Corbyn, despondent Labourites cling to Corbyn to stop the Tories. Everyone else gets crushed in the middle.
    Except this time the Tories are winning 74% of Leave voters, in 2017 they were only winning 65%.

    Labour won 54% of Remainers then, it is now winning just 48%.

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2017-election

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1201403123186585602?s=20
  • So tempted to to do a joke about what do Prince Andrew and Ian Lavery have in common....

    You owe me a new keyboard.
    Sorry, not sorry.
  • HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    Panorama is turning into a horror show for Prince Andrew.

    Virginia Roberts seems very convincing .

    This is tomorrows media obssesion and maybe longer
    Monarchy on the ropes during a GE. I can’t remember that ever happening before.
    Bad for the Tories?
    Monarchy not on the ropes at all , while Prince Andrew has a 19% positive rating, Queen Elizabeth II still has a 72% positive rating
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Prince_Andrew_Duke_of_York

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Queen_Elizabeth_II
    Fortunately, suspects in criminal cases are not judged by opinion poll.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    HYUFD said:

    Did @HYUFD report back on the results of plugging that ICM poll into Electoral Calculus by any chance?

    Don't know if that's meant as a serious request, but I did it anyway. Plugged the ICM numbers into the main prediction and used the most recent Scotland-only poll for parts North of the Tweed.

    Result: Con 314, Lab 252, SNP 47, LD 15.

    2017 part 2, right down to the DUP controlling (probably, just about) the balance of power. That'd be fun, wouldn't it?
    Electoral Calculus is hopeless, went from grossly over UNS to now grossly under
    You were happy to use it (repeatedly) a month or so ago. :wink:
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    edited December 2019

    Haven't heard much from Momentum this election, have they just been quietly getting on with it as last time?

    Pretty much. I get WhatsApp messages from them every day urging me to do this and that. I do about half of them, all I've time for.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    edited December 2019
    Lots of newcomers on.pb purporting to be X when they are in fact Y .. so easy to spot for long time pbers....
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,291
    HYUFD said:

    andy3664 said:

    Talked to a number of floating voters today who were appalled by Johnson's TV interview yesterday and as a result will definitely not be voting Tory.

    Anecdotal but he's pissed off a lot of people around my way
    But who can people vote for? We hear reports of Labour haemmoraging support, apparently Boris is disliked, the polls say he is on for anything from minority govt to a landslide and the LDs have disappeared from sight.
    Who the heck can people vote for?
    I am not expecting Caroline Lucas PM who else is left? Farage?
    That's what points the way back to 2017. Most people won't vote for something, they'll vote against. Terrified Tories go to Johnson to stop Corbyn, despondent Labourites cling to Corbyn to stop the Tories. Everyone else gets crushed in the middle.
    Except this time the Tories are winning 73% of Leave voters

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1201471072756854786?s=20
    Total abolition of tuition fees is bound to be Labour's final gambit. Expect the policy to be announced at the weekend. ;)
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    #trollingtheguardian on Twitter will humour some and rile the righteous
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,838
    HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    Panorama is turning into a horror show for Prince Andrew.

    Virginia Roberts seems very convincing .

    This is tomorrows media obssesion and maybe longer
    Monarchy on the ropes during a GE. I can’t remember that ever happening before.
    Bad for the Tories?
    Monarchy not on the ropes at all , while Prince Andrew has a 19% positive rating, Queen Elizabeth II still has a 72% positive rating
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Prince_Andrew_Duke_of_York

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Queen_Elizabeth_II
    QE2 has, yes. When she goes, what then?
    To be fair, William has done his absolute best not to come across as a pillock of the first water. The others, less so.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    ydoethur said:

    Tyke said:

    NeilVW said:
    That list of seats is some rearguard action!
    Goodness gracious. If they’re nervous in Blyth...
    Labour did lose Blyth to Eddie Milne in February 1974 - and the Alliance had hopes of winning Blyth Valley in the 1980s.
  • Did @HYUFD report back on the results of plugging that ICM poll into Electoral Calculus by any chance?

    Don't know if that's meant as a serious request, but I did it anyway. Plugged the ICM numbers into the main prediction and used the most recent Scotland-only poll for parts North of the Tweed.

    Result: Con 314, Lab 252, SNP 47, LD 15.

    2017 part 2, right down to the DUP controlling (probably, just about) the balance of power. That'd be fun, wouldn't it?
    It was a bit tongue-in-cheek really as I'd done it myself. Sorry.
    Several differences to 2017: No Raab or IDS according to the predicted seat changes. No DUP support either whilst the Boris Deal is still in play.
    Suspect it would be like 2017 but a lot messier.
    That's OK :smile:

    As far as what would happen in a scenario like that, the Lib Dems might permit a Tory minority to 'govern' (effectively as caretakers, not being able to do very much) in exchange for a second EU referendum: the Deal versus Remain, if the EU27 will tolerate it. Then pull the plug once said plebiscite had been held. Don't see how you get any kind of a sustainable administration out of that mess. Referendum in Spring, GE in June?
    He doesn't need the Lib Dems to stay in Number 10, DUP opposition to PM Corbyn probably ensures that. So he brings his Deal back to the Commons. It's voted down. Are there enough Tory rebels to force another extension, or do we exit with No Deal on January 31st? A damned close run thing.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    andy3664 said:

    Talked to a number of floating voters today who were appalled by Johnson's TV interview yesterday and as a result will definitely not be voting Tory.

    Then everyone applauded?
  • So tempted to to do a joke about what do Prince Andrew and Ian Lavery have in common....

    What's the punchline? (Genuine question, I have no idea what you're talking about).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,613

    Haven't heard much from Momentum this election, have they just been quietly getting on with it as last time?

    Pretty much. I get WhatsApp messages from them every day urging me to do this and that. I do about half of them, all I've time for.
    Perhaps Nick can tell us if Labour has given up on Bishop Aukland and Darlington? Where is the NE firewall now, Nick? For betting purposes like.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    Panorama is turning into a horror show for Prince Andrew.

    Virginia Roberts seems very convincing .

    This is tomorrows media obssesion and maybe longer
    Monarchy on the ropes during a GE. I can’t remember that ever happening before.
    Bad for the Tories?
    Monarchy not on the ropes at all , while Prince Andrew has a 19% positive rating, Queen Elizabeth II still has a 72% positive rating
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Prince_Andrew_Duke_of_York

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Queen_Elizabeth_II
    Fortunately, suspects in criminal cases are not judged by opinion poll.
    As Alex Salmond can attest
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981

    ydoethur said:

    Tyke said:

    I'm wondering why it wasn't in Darlo and Bish - have we written them off?

    Good point, unless Laura is bundling them all under ‘Durham’ - probably not, it would be a long day to get to and from all those seats and then up to Blyth.
    Labour aren’t exactly fighting an offensive war, are they? They held Cannock less than ten years ago, and need it back, badly - yet they’ve given up.
    That's a bit simplistic. The electoral battleground has shifted *a lot* since the Brexit referendum. Labour winning Canterbury in 2017 is an obvious example in the other direction. The closest they previously managed was when an Emily Thornberry was the candidate in 2001, when they were 2,000 votes short, at an election when Labour won 413 seats. In 2017 Labour won 262 seats including Canterbury. If Labour hadn't gone backwards in other seats then Corbyn would have won a majority of ~200.
    Same thing happens in many countries.
    Internal party coalitions usually shift over 2 generations, the longest surviving one was the solid american south for the democrats that lasted for over 100 years, but even now you can find evidence around the world on internal voting borders from the middle ages (Ulster unionists for example).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited December 2019
    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    Panorama is turning into a horror show for Prince Andrew.

    Virginia Roberts seems very convincing .

    This is tomorrows media obssesion and maybe longer
    Monarchy on the ropes during a GE. I can’t remember that ever happening before.
    Bad for the Tories?
    Monarchy not on the ropes at all , while Prince Andrew has a 19% positive rating, Queen Elizabeth II still has a 72% positive rating
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Prince_Andrew_Duke_of_York

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Queen_Elizabeth_II
    QE2 has, yes. When she goes, what then?
    To be fair, William has done his absolute best not to come across as a pillock of the first water. The others, less so.
    Prince William 66% positive rating, even Prince Charles up to 48% positive, higher thsn Boris and Corbyn

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Prince_William_Duke_of_Cambridge

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Prince_Charles
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The Americans would love a televised trial with Prince Andrew giving evidence !
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    edited December 2019
    speedy2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Tyke said:

    I'm wondering why it wasn't in Darlo and Bish - have we written them off?

    Good point, unless Laura is bundling them all under ‘Durham’ - probably not, it would be a long day to get to and from all those seats and then up to Blyth.
    Labour aren’t exactly fighting an offensive war, are they? They held Cannock less than ten years ago, and need it back, badly - yet they’ve given up.
    That's a bit simplistic. The electoral battleground has shifted *a lot* since the Brexit referendum. Labour winning Canterbury in 2017 is an obvious example in the other direction. The closest they previously managed was when an Emily Thornberry was the candidate in 2001, when they were 2,000 votes short, at an election when Labour won 413 seats. In 2017 Labour won 262 seats including Canterbury. If Labour hadn't gone backwards in other seats then Corbyn would have won a majority of ~200.
    Same thing happens in many countries.
    Internal party coalitions usually shift over 2 generations, the longest surviving one was the solid american south for the democrats that lasted for over 100 years, but even now you can find evidence around the world on internal voting borders from the middle ages (Ulster unionists for example).
    At risk of being picky, that was seventeenth century not the Middle Ages.
  • Without wanting to sound callous, I am not sure we learned anything new from that Panorama that hasn't already been reported.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,613
    dr_spyn said:
    Who knew what - and when?
    I hope Jo Swinson has some convincing answers for Andrew Neil....
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Election Day looking staggeringly cold on the latest model outputs. Much of the north and Scotland are at the moment set to have an 'Ice Day' i.e. a day in which the maxima never gets above zero.

    Snow in several places too.

    When you say "staggeringly cold " and "never gets above zero" - are you talking absolute zero?
    'Ice Day' which means maxima never getting above zero C. Factor in the significant windchill from the northerly and it would feel like -10C.

    But it may not happen. These things usually don't!!!
    It’s so cold my wife and daughter are fleeing to California for the winter
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Did @HYUFD report back on the results of plugging that ICM poll into Electoral Calculus by any chance?

    Don't know if that's meant as a serious request, but I did it anyway. Plugged the ICM numbers into the main prediction and used the most recent Scotland-only poll for parts North of the Tweed.

    Result: Con 314, Lab 252, SNP 47, LD 15.

    2017 part 2, right down to the DUP controlling (probably, just about) the balance of power. That'd be fun, wouldn't it?
    It was a bit tongue-in-cheek really as I'd done it myself. Sorry.
    Several differences to 2017: No Raab or IDS according to the predicted seat changes. No DUP support either whilst the Boris Deal is still in play.
    Suspect it would be like 2017 but a lot messier.
    That's OK :smile:

    As far as what would happen in a scenario like that, the Lib Dems might permit a Tory minority to 'govern' (effectively as caretakers, not being able to do very much) in exchange for a second EU referendum: the Deal versus Remain, if the EU27 will tolerate it. Then pull the plug once said plebiscite had been held. Don't see how you get any kind of a sustainable administration out of that mess. Referendum in Spring, GE in June?
    He doesn't need the Lib Dems to stay in Number 10, DUP opposition to PM Corbyn probably ensures that. So he brings his Deal back to the Commons. It's voted down. Are there enough Tory rebels to force another extension, or do we exit with No Deal on January 31st? A damned close run thing.
    A very good point. The DUP might not be willing to tolerate the Deal, but they could opt for Hard Brexit.

    However, the likelihood of such a scenario coming to pass is rather remote. And yes, some Tory rebels who were willing to sign up to the Deal but not to No Deal would probably emerge in any case.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    edited December 2019

    So tempted to to do a joke about what do Prince Andrew and Ian Lavery have in common....

    What's the punchline? (Genuine question, I have no idea what you're talking about).
    Sorry, if you don't know the punchline then you're too innocent to be told the punchline.

    Plus I'm a classy guy with a real sense of decency and good taste, as my jokes on PB show.
  • I've just destroyed every irony meter in the world haven't I?
  • Without wanting to sound callous, I am not sure we learned anything new from that Panorama that hasn't already been reported.

    Wasn't the email thing new?

    https://twitter.com/jnoahmorgan/status/1201620317694779392
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917

    Andrew said:

    Some speculation on Twitter that Lab might be in difficulties in Easington, which seems unlikely.

    Yeah, bizarre. That's landslide territory.
    I think when I looked that this was Labour's safest seat in Co. Durham, or one of them. If Labour can't hold onto Easington then (a) they really are fucked and (b) memories of the miners' strike must have faded a lot more than I'd have thought.
    Manny Shinwell's old seat. We are talking the heart of the heartlands.
    Labour are 1/8 in Easington. Con 6/1.
    Ladies and gentlemen, if Easington is seriously in play - even holding by a few thousand - then we students of politics are reading this election horribly wrong. Boris is going to get a seriously large majority.
    Seriously large.
    Extinction level event for the Corbynistas and Momentum large.
    Not happening.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    So tempted to to do a joke about what do Prince Andrew and Ian Lavery have in common....

    What's the punchline? (Genuine question, I have no idea what you're talking about).
    Sorry, if you don't know the punchline then you're too innocent to be told the punchline.

    Plus I'm a classy guy with a real sense of decency and good taste, as my jokes on PB show.
    Who are you, and what have you done with The Screaming Eagles?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,613
    nico67 said:

    The Americans would love a televised trial with Prince Andrew giving evidence !

    A trial of - who?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    andy3664 said:

    Talked to a number of floating voters today who were appalled by Johnson's TV interview yesterday and as a result will definitely not be voting Tory.

    Anecdotal but he's pissed off a lot of people around my way
    But who can people vote for? We hear reports of Labour haemmoraging support, apparently Boris is disliked, the polls say he is on for anything from minority govt to a landslide and the LDs have disappeared from sight.
    Who the heck can people vote for?
    I am not expecting Caroline Lucas PM who else is left? Farage?
    That's what points the way back to 2017. Most people won't vote for something, they'll vote against. Terrified Tories go to Johnson to stop Corbyn, despondent Labourites cling to Corbyn to stop the Tories. Everyone else gets crushed in the middle.
    Except this time the Tories are winning 73% of Leave voters

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1201471072756854786?s=20
    Total abolition of tuition fees is bound to be Labour's final gambit. Expect the policy to be announced at the weekend. ;)
    Maybe reducing the interest rate to zero rather than outright cancellation?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,613
    Charles said:

    Election Day looking staggeringly cold on the latest model outputs. Much of the north and Scotland are at the moment set to have an 'Ice Day' i.e. a day in which the maxima never gets above zero.

    Snow in several places too.

    When you say "staggeringly cold " and "never gets above zero" - are you talking absolute zero?
    'Ice Day' which means maxima never getting above zero C. Factor in the significant windchill from the northerly and it would feel like -10C.

    But it may not happen. These things usually don't!!!
    It’s so cold my wife and daughter are fleeing to California for the winter
    The extended forest fire season should keep them toasty......
  • Haven't heard much from Momentum this election, have they just been quietly getting on with it as last time?

    Pretty much. I get WhatsApp messages from them every day urging me to do this and that. I do about half of them, all I've time for.
    Perhaps Nick can tell us if Labour has given up on Bishop Aukland and Darlington? Where is the NE firewall now, Nick? For betting purposes like.
    Momentim flooding IDS constituency according to one of the sunday papers. Door knocking late into the evening.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    justin124 said:

    I have just sent a Tweet to Ian Austin letting him know what I think of his Mainstream letter. I wonder whether he will understand the Pierre Laval reference!

    You’re surely not likening Ian Austin to a nazi? You do realise his background?
    Just a collaborator- the Tories are the Nazis in the world according to Justin
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    edited December 2019

    nico67 said:

    The Americans would love a televised trial with Prince Andrew giving evidence !

    A trial of - who?
    Trump would be a good place to start, some very serious Epstein related allegations were made against him in 2016.
  • nico67 said:

    The Americans would love a televised trial with Prince Andrew giving evidence !

    A trial of - who?
    Ghislane Maxwell, possibly?
  • There are an awful lot of bad puns on here tonight.
  • I didn't realise that Ghislaine Maxwell is the daughter of Robert Maxwell.

    Mirror Group pensioners held a whip-round to buy her a place in Belgravia. They're a soft-hearted bunch in the Labour movement.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    So tempted to to do a joke about what do Prince Andrew and Ian Lavery have in common....

    What's the punchline? (Genuine question, I have no idea what you're talking about).
    Both have worked tirelessly to protect the rights of miners/minors.

    Or something like that.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    andy3664 said:

    Talked to a number of floating voters today who were appalled by Johnson's TV interview yesterday and as a result will definitely not be voting Tory.

    Anecdotal but he's pissed off a lot of people around my way
    But who can people vote for? We hear reports of Labour haemmoraging support, apparently Boris is disliked, the polls say he is on for anything from minority govt to a landslide and the LDs have disappeared from sight.
    Who the heck can people vote for?
    I am not expecting Caroline Lucas PM who else is left? Farage?
    That's what points the way back to 2017. Most people won't vote for something, they'll vote against. Terrified Tories go to Johnson to stop Corbyn, despondent Labourites cling to Corbyn to stop the Tories. Everyone else gets crushed in the middle.
    Except this time the Tories are winning 73% of Leave voters

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1201471072756854786?s=20
    Total abolition of tuition fees is bound to be Labour's final gambit. Expect the policy to be announced at the weekend. ;)
    Maybe reducing the interest rate to zero rather than outright cancellation?
    No sign of it in the grey book.
  • I suspect what's got Labour worried in Easington is indirect.

    They won't lose the seat (look at the huge majority and the YouGov MRP) but, if they're losing lots of their traditional voters there, it bodes very poorly for elsewhere in the NE.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    So tempted to to do a joke about what do Prince Andrew and Ian Lavery have in common....

    What's the punchline? (Genuine question, I have no idea what you're talking about).
    Both have worked tirelessly to protect the rights of miners/minors.

    Or something like that.
    YES, that's exactly the punchline I had come up with.
  • My old stomping ground, B'ham Northfield, on Ch4 with a focus group.

    Looks very bad for Labour.

    https://www.channel4.com/news/focus-group-can-tories-win-over-people-who-voted-labour-and-leave
  • What does Boris Johnson have on Prince Andrew?

    If this is a dead cat it's like he's shot every tiger in Bengal and thrown them all on the table.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited December 2019
    Crickey....

    Chaos at Lord's Taverners' Christmas charity lunch as comedian Nish Kumar is booed off and hit with a BREAD ROLL

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-7748277/Chaos-Lords-Taverners-Christmas-charity-lunch-comedian-Nish-Kumar-booed-off.html
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917
    speedy2 said:
    Not to belittle the gravity of those stories, they should be on the front, but it does also show how a six-week election campaign - or was it seven? - is just too long. Everyone is utterly bored of it all. They should be a month long max.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981

    nico67 said:

    The Americans would love a televised trial with Prince Andrew giving evidence !

    A trial of - who?
    Ghislane Maxwell, possibly?
    I think she will be never found alive.
    This story is one that deserves the Scorsese treatment.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    IshmaelZ said:

    So tempted to to do a joke about what do Prince Andrew and Ian Lavery have in common....

    What's the punchline? (Genuine question, I have no idea what you're talking about).
    Both have worked tirelessly to protect the rights of miners/minors.

    Or something like that.
    YES, that's exactly the punchline I had come up with.
    Surely it should be, one has shamelessly screwed a lot of vulnerable miners and the other is the Duke of York?
  • What does Boris Johnson have on Prince Andrew?

    If this is a dead cat it's like he's shot every tiger in Bengal and thrown them all on the table.

    Boris really should have done his Andrew Neil interview this evening.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited December 2019
    glw said:


    Trump would be a good place to start, some very serious Epstein related allegations were made against him in 2016.

    Virginia Roberts worked at Mar-a-Lago when she was 16, which is where she was picked up by Epstein.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    And some Leavers don’t care that Bozo is a pathological liar whose written some disgusting racist comments but hides behind his time as a journalist .

    Dan Hodges needs to STFU and stop moralizing when the party he supports is hardly the Flying Nun!
  • That focus group is devastating for Jezza.

    Con majority?
  • That focus group is devastating for Jezza.

    Con majority?

    Which one?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited December 2019

    Haven't heard much from Momentum this election, have they just been quietly getting on with it as last time?

    Pretty much. I get WhatsApp messages from them every day urging me to do this and that. I do about half of them, all I've time for.
    Perhaps Nick can tell us if Labour has given up on Bishop Aukland and Darlington? Where is the NE firewall now, Nick? For betting purposes like.
    Momentim flooding IDS constituency according to one of the sunday papers. Door knocking late into the evening.
    With Hugh Grant behind them, if voters were not already annoyed enough, no better way to get the vote out for IDS. Chingford and Woodford Green Tories stop canvassing at 7 30pm.

    https://twitter.com/HackedOffHugh/status/1201398898599907328?s=20
  • Somebody is still piling loads more liquidity into Betfair market.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533

    Haven't heard much from Momentum this election, have they just been quietly getting on with it as last time?

    Pretty much. I get WhatsApp messages from them every day urging me to do this and that. I do about half of them, all I've time for.
    Perhaps Nick can tell us if Labour has given up on Bishop Aukland and Darlington? Where is the NE firewall now, Nick? For betting purposes like.
    Your sense of innocent enquiry is endearing, but I haven't a clue about what's happening north of Nottingham, and my WhatsApp stuff is all about southern seats.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,613

    Haven't heard much from Momentum this election, have they just been quietly getting on with it as last time?

    Pretty much. I get WhatsApp messages from them every day urging me to do this and that. I do about half of them, all I've time for.
    Perhaps Nick can tell us if Labour has given up on Bishop Aukland and Darlington? Where is the NE firewall now, Nick? For betting purposes like.
    Momentim flooding IDS constituency according to one of the sunday papers. Door knocking late into the evening.
    Any fule kno - you don't door knock after dark. People don't answer. Those that do bollock you for waking the kid they'd just got off to sleep.....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited December 2019
    Other than Hugh Grant and Maureen Lipman, it has been a surprising change how little celebs have got involved with this GE...normally by now we are getting the daily chain letters sent to the Guardian from them and on the other side business folk sending to the Telegraph.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    andy3664 said:

    Talked to a number of floating voters today who were appalled by Johnson's TV interview yesterday and as a result will definitely not be voting Tory.

    Anecdotal but he's pissed off a lot of people around my way
    But who can people vote for? We hear reports of Labour haemmoraging support, apparently Boris is disliked, the polls say he is on for anything from minority govt to a landslide and the LDs have disappeared from sight.
    Who the heck can people vote for?
    I am not expecting Caroline Lucas PM who else is left? Farage?
    That's what points the way back to 2017. Most people won't vote for something, they'll vote against. Terrified Tories go to Johnson to stop Corbyn, despondent Labourites cling to Corbyn to stop the Tories. Everyone else gets crushed in the middle.
    Except this time the Tories are winning 73% of Leave voters

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1201471072756854786?s=20
    Total abolition of tuition fees is bound to be Labour's final gambit. Expect the policy to be announced at the weekend. ;)
    Maybe reducing the interest rate to zero rather than outright cancellation?
    No sign of it in the grey book.
    Labour's grey book contains all sorts of interesting details on how they plan to fund their spending commitments.

    Except for £400bn for the state investment bank, £250bn for the state investment fund, £200bn (at a guess) for the nationalisation programme, £58bn to throw at the WASPI women, and God alone knows what else that they've already made up on the spot, or will do during the remaining nine days of the campaign.

    Is there anything else that I missed?
  • Cookie said:

    I don't know what the mood on the ground is in the West Midlands. But in the NE the visceral hate for Labour is something to behold. They really are despised by people who should have been comfortable bankers for the reds. Whether that means punters manage to coalesce around the best alternative remains to be seen.
    They did manage to do so in May at the local elections....

    What is the cause of the loathing? Marxism does not appeal? Corbyn is unelectable? Brexit? Anti_semitism? All of the above?
    If I might - as a middle class, public sector, big city, suburbanite - be sold bold as to venture an opinion based on the shamefully small population I know outside my own catchment - it's that Corbyn in particular and the Labour Party in general appears not to like them very much. Or at all. As someone said upthread, it's a visceral dislike, not an intellectual dislike: an instinctive reaction based on years and years of - as Seant so memorably put it - multicultural this and anti-austerity that and transgender the other. Leading to a feeling that this was a pretty difficult party to identify with.
    From what people have told me, Brexit woke them up. For decades "the Tories" was the lazy excuse. Shit job? Shit prospects? Not happy? Blame The Tories. Richard IQ Burgon pulled the same line last night in the debate. Adam Price blames Labour in government in Wales for the Welsh NHS. IQ attacks Price for not attacking the Tories for something Labour are directly responsible for.
    So it was easy to blame the Tories. Especially in Easington and Boro and post industrial towns. Yet Labour have represented these towns and run these towns since the Vikings left. Brexit made people think "hang on". And that Labour apparently don't get their concerns (rightly if they think crash Brexit fixes things) just makes them angry. Proper angry. I watched Question Time from South Shields. The audience was labelled as all Brexiteer. It was. Not all Brexit Party. Should have been able to weigh in the Labour vote there. Not any more
    Exactly the same as in Scotland. Shut up and vote Labour. Return 50 MPs. Watch as they can do nothing in the face of managed economic decline in the 1980s/1990s. Vote for Labour councils. Watch as they don't build any houses, and fail to pay female workers properly.

    Lose an election, ignore it. The voters will come to their senses. Lose another election. Ignore it. The voters will come home soon. Lose another election...
    Thanks :+1:
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Has LAB gone ahead yet?

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,613
    Ave_it said:

    Has LAB gone ahead yet?

    Of the LibDems? Yeah, a bit futher.....
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614

    Other than Hugh Grant and Maureen Lipman, it has been a surprising change how little celebs have got involved with this GE...normally by now we are getting the daily chain letters sent to the Guardian from them and on the other side business folk sending to the Telegraph.

    Maybe even the luvvies have been sensible enough to steer clear of Corbyn this time.
  • RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    andy3664 said:

    Talked to a number of floating voters today who were appalled by Johnson's TV interview yesterday and as a result will definitely not be voting Tory.

    Anecdotal but he's pissed off a lot of people around my way
    But who can people vote for? We hear reports of Labour haemmoraging support, apparently Boris is disliked, the polls say he is on for anything from minority govt to a landslide and the LDs have disappeared from sight.
    Who the heck can people vote for?
    I am not expecting Caroline Lucas PM who else is left? Farage?
    That's what points the way back to 2017. Most people won't vote for something, they'll vote against. Terrified Tories go to Johnson to stop Corbyn, despondent Labourites cling to Corbyn to stop the Tories. Everyone else gets crushed in the middle.
    Except this time the Tories are winning 73% of Leave voters

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1201471072756854786?s=20
    Total abolition of tuition fees is bound to be Labour's final gambit. Expect the policy to be announced at the weekend. ;)
    Maybe reducing the interest rate to zero rather than outright cancellation?
    No sign of it in the grey book.
    Labour's grey book contains all sorts of interesting details on how they plan to fund their spending commitments.

    Except for £400bn for the state investment bank, £250bn for the state investment fund, £200bn (at a guess) for the nationalisation programme, £58bn to throw at the WASPI women, and God alone knows what else that they've already made up on the spot, or will do during the remaining nine days of the campaign.

    Is there anything else that I missed?
    No new Labour bung this evening?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I don’t think it is unreasonable to say that if it is pelting down with snow all day this will keep some voters away from the polling station / polling place.

    Snowflakes!
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Anyone want to be manager of Watford?

    Jo Swinson maybe??
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    *snip* my WhatsApp stuff is all about southern seats.

    Is that because most of the Momentumites live within the M25?

    (only half said in jest)
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    Haven't heard much from Momentum this election, have they just been quietly getting on with it as last time?

    Pretty much. I get WhatsApp messages from them every day urging me to do this and that. I do about half of them, all I've time for.
    Perhaps Nick can tell us if Labour has given up on Bishop Aukland and Darlington? Where is the NE firewall now, Nick? For betting purposes like.
    Your sense of innocent enquiry is endearing, but I haven't a clue about what's happening north of Nottingham, and my WhatsApp stuff is all about southern seats.
    What about in your old seat. Is Ms Soubry going to win?
  • Haven't heard much from Momentum this election, have they just been quietly getting on with it as last time?

    Pretty much. I get WhatsApp messages from them every day urging me to do this and that. I do about half of them, all I've time for.
    Perhaps Nick can tell us if Labour has given up on Bishop Aukland and Darlington? Where is the NE firewall now, Nick? For betting purposes like.
    Your sense of innocent enquiry is endearing, but I haven't a clue about what's happening north of Nottingham, and my WhatsApp stuff is all about southern seats.
    What about in your old seat. Is Ms Soubry going to win?
    Nope.
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    What's the point of promising to write off anything if nobody believes the promise is remotely credible? I doubt the majority of Labour voters themselves believe the figures that are being bandied about can ever be delivered.
  • Somebody is still piling loads more liquidity into Betfair market.

    Which one?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited December 2019

    Somebody is still piling loads more liquidity into Betfair market.

    Which one?
    Tory, Overall Majority.
  • Somebody is still piling loads more liquidity into Betfair market.

    Which one?
    Tory, Overall Majority.
    Blimey. Look at those numbers.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721
    Ave_it said:

    Anyone want to be manager of Watford?

    Jo Swinson maybe??

    Get Nigel Pearson. Great guy for a relegation battle then promotion push.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,124
    edited December 2019

    Somebody is still piling loads more liquidity into Betfair market.

    Which one?
    Tory, Overall Majority.
    Blimey. Look at those numbers.
    £100k got added in about an hour early this evening. And a load more has gone on in the past hour or so.

    Most seats has got £100k's of liquidity. No idea when that all got added.
  • Somebody is still piling loads more liquidity into Betfair market.

    Which one?
    Tory, Overall Majority.
    Blimey. Look at those numbers.
    £100k got added in about an hour early this evening. And a load more has gone on in the past hour or so.
    This election just got serious :smiley:
  • HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185

    Haven't heard much from Momentum this election, have they just been quietly getting on with it as last time?

    Pretty much. I get WhatsApp messages from them every day urging me to do this and that. I do about half of them, all I've time for.
    Perhaps Nick can tell us if Labour has given up on Bishop Aukland and Darlington? Where is the NE firewall now, Nick? For betting purposes like.
    Your sense of innocent enquiry is endearing, but I haven't a clue about what's happening north of Nottingham, and my WhatsApp stuff is all about southern seats.
    What about in your old seat. Is Ms Soubry going to win?
    Nope.
    Most of the obvious campaining around Broxtowe ward has been by Labour, I've had one flyer from Anna Soubry and that's it. But then that was true in 2017 and she won.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201

    My old stomping ground, B'ham Northfield, on Ch4 with a focus group.

    Looks very bad for Labour.

    https://www.channel4.com/news/focus-group-can-tories-win-over-people-who-voted-labour-and-leave

    That is very interesting. Why has brexit not happened, "Because it will be bad for rich people and good for us, that is why they have fought it so hard."

    Also destroys the myth the Boris is loathed, they mock his affairs but still are prepared to vote for him.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    Haven't heard much from Momentum this election, have they just been quietly getting on with it as last time?

    Pretty much. I get WhatsApp messages from them every day urging me to do this and that. I do about half of them, all I've time for.
    Perhaps Nick can tell us if Labour has given up on Bishop Aukland and Darlington? Where is the NE firewall now, Nick? For betting purposes like.
    Your sense of innocent enquiry is endearing, but I haven't a clue about what's happening north of Nottingham, and my WhatsApp stuff is all about southern seats.
    What about in your old seat. Is Ms Soubry going to win?
    Nope.
    what does the mrp say
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,604
    Just seen the ICM poll. Good for Labour. 35%.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    andy3664 said:

    Talked to a number of floating voters today who were appalled by Johnson's TV interview yesterday and as a result will definitely not be voting Tory.

    Anecdotal but he's pissed off a lot of people around my way
    But who can people vote for? We hear reports of Labour haemmoraging support, apparently Boris is disliked, the polls say he is on for anything from minority govt to a landslide and the LDs have disappeared from sight.
    Who the heck can people vote for?
    I am not expecting Caroline Lucas PM who else is left? Farage?
    That's what points the way back to 2017. Most people won't vote for something, they'll vote against. Terrified Tories go to Johnson to stop Corbyn, despondent Labourites cling to Corbyn to stop the Tories. Everyone else gets crushed in the middle.
    Except this time the Tories are winning 73% of Leave voters

    https://twitter.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1201471072756854786?s=20
    Total abolition of tuition fees is bound to be Labour's final gambit. Expect the policy to be announced at the weekend. ;)
    Maybe reducing the interest rate to zero rather than outright cancellation?
    No sign of it in the grey book.
    Why would that matter? Predictions of a weekend announcement look spot on.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,486
    IshmaelZ said:

    nico67 said:

    Panorama is turning into a horror show for Prince Andrew.

    Virginia Roberts seems very convincing .

    This is tomorrows media obssesion and maybe longer
    Monarchy on the ropes during a GE. I can’t remember that ever happening before.
    Bad for the Tories?
    Cannot see the connection to be fair
    People equate the two, Johnson has reinforced that with his "monarchy is above reproach" shtick, and don't whatever you do mention David Rowland for the next couple of weeks. I have never heard of him - never, do you hear me? - and nor has the tory party.

    I genuinely haven't heard of him - are you going to enlighten us or is this some sort of #innocentface thing?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,212

    Somebody is still piling loads more liquidity into Betfair market.

    Maybe someone's had a sneaky peek at the postals :D !
  • My old stomping ground, B'ham Northfield, on Ch4 with a focus group.

    Looks very bad for Labour.

    https://www.channel4.com/news/focus-group-can-tories-win-over-people-who-voted-labour-and-leave

    That is very interesting. Why has brexit not happened, "Because it will be bad for rich people and good for us, that is why they have fought it so hard."

    Also destroys the myth the Boris is loathed, they mock his affairs but still are prepared to vote for him.
    Did I catch it correctly, that they said Dom Cummings is the one behind these focus groups that CH4 sat in on?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,721

    Haven't heard much from Momentum this election, have they just been quietly getting on with it as last time?

    Pretty much. I get WhatsApp messages from them every day urging me to do this and that. I do about half of them, all I've time for.
    Perhaps Nick can tell us if Labour has given up on Bishop Aukland and Darlington? Where is the NE firewall now, Nick? For betting purposes like.
    Your sense of innocent enquiry is endearing, but I haven't a clue about what's happening north of Nottingham, and my WhatsApp stuff is all about southern seats.
    What about in your old seat. Is Ms Soubry going to win?
    Nope.
    what does the mrp say
    Is the newMRP going to be weekly?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    Jason said:

    What's the point of promising to write off anything if nobody believes the promise is remotely credible? I doubt the majority of Labour voters themselves believe the figures that are being bandied about can ever be delivered.

    I imagine the point is to gamble it won't put off anyone already swayed to vote Labour - out of principle and support for the policies, or fear of Tories, or for electoral bribes for unprinciple, deceitful whiners like the WASPI women - and will hopefully ensure there really is a youthquake turnout this time, or at least that it will be about what it was last time.
This discussion has been closed.