I retract my previous statement that I might vote Labour if it promises to refund my student loan. I now realise it’s in a negotiation with the electorate and all bets are off, so Labour needs to pay off my mortgage or it’s no deal from me.
If Labour promises to pay off my mortgage, buy me a second home in the south of France and pay my annual Oyster card bill, even I might vote for them!
Its coming....I'm sure....
Change is coming
And you are going apparently if it comes.
At least you can start your journey with a cheap rail trip.
I'll save some time and put a comment about how Tories' reaction to this policy shows they are panicking about how good an idea it is.
Yes, the Tories need to counter this and fast. Jezza has turned himself into the patron saint of commuters with a single policy announcement. What with Brexit and soaring travel costs, many in the south east feel neglected by Boris, who seems preoccupied with the grotty oiks up north. Jezza, in contrast, is increasingly looking like their striding saviour, a veritable Christ-like figure.
Even as a Corbyn supporter you must realise this isn’t a policy that will have any interest for Labour leavers in the North and Midlands.
Ed M's problem was that he only promised one free owl per voter. He should have offered a parliament of them for each voter.
I'd say Jezza has played a blinder with his promise to slash rail fares. Commuters hate the privatized rail companies with a passion, so really won't give a flying fig if their profits have to take a hit. Moreover it will save me an absolute packet! Go Jezza go!
I'd say Jezza has played a blinder with his promise to slash rail fares. Commuters hate the privatized rail companies with a passion, so really won't give a flying fig if their profits have to take a hit. Moreover it will save me an absolute packet! Go Jezza go!
And another gullible is taken for a ride.
The day and weekend belongs to Boris anyway, he politicised the terror incident, he went point scoring on terrorism and did it well, the soundbite of him bbc used was spot on. The optics of Boris clear crisp decision making to keep us safe and Jezzas waffle about the rights of terrorists should show sharp uptick to Tory in polls in coming days.
More free cash for the South East. That's where all the marginals are, right? Great politics in that case.
I can't see flat cap Fred and the left behinds of Stoke being ecstatic to hear more money for rich southerns.
Ideally this policy activates the bullshit detectors of the pinstripe Peregrines whilst simultaneously pissing off the flat-cap Freds.
Alternatively, it could all get lost in the great sea of free everything that has already been announced. Or most voters aren't paying a great deal of attention and won't particularly have noticed it at all. Who can say?
At the end of the day, free this that and the other only works if (a) the intended recipients believe that someone else will pay for it and (b) there's not an equally large or larger group that believes that they'll be paying for someone else's freebies and raise Hell accordingly.
If the Peregrines think they'll simply end up paying for it through sky-high taxes and economic collapse, AND the Freds think that they'll end up paying for it in subsidy hikes funded through their taxes too, then the policy will backfire and Labour will go backwards. Just depends whether that's what happens or not.
Shows how well Labour think their campaign is going
Student loan cancellation has to be coming, surely....
I guess that must be being saved for the last weekend now, to maximise the immediacy of its impact in staying in the mind of students.
Well it isn't just current students, it could be attractive for 30 years old struggling to get on the property ladder because a decent chunk of their wages go on the student loan repayments.
If they really cared about the poor they'd make lottery tickets free. Until they do, I'll know that Labour are a middle class clique out to enrich themselves.
So Labour have realised they're struggling to defend their seats up here in the North and their great idea to reshape the agenda is to spend billions subsidising rail tickets? When most people up here drive?
Its almost as if the Labour Party is ran by a bunch of Middle Class Champagne Socialist Londoners who are out of class with reality . . . oh.
I'm lost. Corbyn seems to be trying to give the bourgeois as many free things as he can think of, and yet his is a Trotskyite who wants to take all property and assets for the state.
Student loan cancellation has to be coming, surely....
I guess that must be being saved for the last weekend now, to maximise the immediacy of its impact in staying in the mind of students.
Well it isn't just current students, it could be attractive for 30 years old struggling to get on the property ladder because a decent chunk of their wages go on the student loan repayments.
Nah, anyone in their 30s is on the older system of £1k or £3k fees. Most of us have paid off our loans. It's the early to mid 20s lot that have been royally fucked.
I'll save some time and put a comment about how Tories' reaction to this policy shows they are panicking about how good an idea it is.
Yes, the Tories need to counter this and fast. Jezza has turned himself into the patron saint of commuters with a single policy announcement. What with Brexit and soaring travel costs, many in the south east feel neglected by Boris, who seems preoccupied with the grotty oiks up north. Jezza, in contrast, is increasingly looking like their striding saviour, a veritable Christ-like figure.
Even as a Corbyn supporter you must realise this isn’t a policy that will have any interest for Labour leavers in the North and Midlands.
I'm not a supporter of Corbyn - he, and all the alternatives at this election, fill me with doom. However, Labours bag of mega-goodies should be enough to secure what they currently have (more or less), and that's all that's needed to screw Boris.
I honestly would have had more respect for Labour if they had just gone with UBI as their massive bung to the electorate. At least that in economic theory has some value.
I'll save some time and put a comment about how Tories' reaction to this policy shows they are panicking about how good an idea it is.
Yes, the Tories need to counter this and fast. Jezza has turned himself into the patron saint of commuters with a single policy announcement. What with Brexit and soaring travel costs, many in the south east feel neglected by Boris, who seems preoccupied with the grotty oiks up north. Jezza, in contrast, is increasingly looking like their striding saviour, a veritable Christ-like figure.
Even as a Corbyn supporter you must realise this isn’t a policy that will have any interest for Labour leavers in the North and Midlands.
I'm not a supporter of Corbyn - he, and all the alternatives at this election, fill me with doom. However, Labours bag of mega-goodies should be enough to secure what they currently have (more or less), and that's all that's needed to screw Boris.
Student loan cancellation has to be coming, surely....
I guess that must be being saved for the last weekend now, to maximise the immediacy of its impact in staying in the mind of students.
Well it isn't just current students, it could be attractive for 30 years old struggling to get on the property ladder because a decent chunk of their wages go on the student loan repayments.
Nah, anyone in their 30s is on the older system of £1k or £3k fees. Most of us have paid off our loans. It's the early to mid 20s lot that have been royally fucked.
Even when the fees with £3k, loads of people took the full loan amount which was what ~£4-5k a year? Lots of those people have gone into jobs that don't pay much more than £24k a year and so even 10 years later they still have a decent chunk of a loan.
I'd say Jezza has played a blinder with his promise to slash rail fares. Commuters hate the privatized rail companies with a passion, so really won't give a flying fig if their profits have to take a hit. Moreover it will save me an absolute packet! Go Jezza go!
I'd say Jezza has played a blinder with his promise to slash rail fares. Commuters hate the privatized rail companies with a passion, so really won't give a flying fig if their profits have to take a hit. Moreover it will save me an absolute packet! Go Jezza go!
And another gullible is taken for a ride.
The day and weekend belongs to Boris anyway, he politicised the terror incident, he went point scoring on terrorism and did it well, the soundbite of him bbc used was spot on. The optics of Boris clear crisp decision making to keep us safe and Jezzas waffle about the rights of terrorists should show sharp uptick to Tory in polls in coming days.
I'll save some time and put a comment about how Tories' reaction to this policy shows they are panicking about how good an idea it is.
Yes, the Tories need to counter this and fast. Jezza has turned himself into the patron saint of commuters with a single policy announcement. What with Brexit and soaring travel costs, many in the south east feel neglected by Boris, who seems preoccupied with the grotty oiks up north. Jezza, in contrast, is increasingly looking like their striding saviour, a veritable Christ-like figure.
You have a little way to go before matching Adrian Harper.
I am more mad about this idea that the other pie in the sky ones. The railways are already running well over capacity at peak, in some areas they are at double that. Reducing fares will worsen this in the short term, almost to epidemic levels. The whole point of peak and off peak is to move people like me on to less busy times, this takes that away almost completely.
I'd say Jezza has played a blinder with his promise to slash rail fares. Commuters hate the privatized rail companies with a passion, so really won't give a flying fig if their profits have to take a hit. Moreover it will save me an absolute packet! Go Jezza go!
I'd say Jezza has played a blinder with his promise to slash rail fares. Commuters hate the privatized rail companies with a passion, so really won't give a flying fig if their profits have to take a hit. Moreover it will save me an absolute packet! Go Jezza go!
And another gullible is taken for a ride.
The day and weekend belongs to Boris anyway, he politicised the terror incident, he went point scoring on terrorism and did it well, the soundbite of him bbc used was spot on. The optics of Boris clear crisp decision making to keep us safe and Jezzas waffle about the rights of terrorists should show sharp uptick to Tory in polls in coming days.
I'd say Jezza has played a blinder with his promise to slash rail fares. Commuters hate the privatized rail companies with a passion, so really won't give a flying fig if their profits have to take a hit. Moreover it will save me an absolute packet! Go Jezza go!
I'd say Jezza has played a blinder with his promise to slash rail fares. Commuters hate the privatized rail companies with a passion, so really won't give a flying fig if their profits have to take a hit. Moreover it will save me an absolute packet! Go Jezza go!
And another gullible is taken for a ride.
The day and weekend belongs to Boris anyway, he politicised the terror incident, he went point scoring on terrorism and did it well, the soundbite of him bbc used was spot on. The optics of Boris clear crisp decision making to keep us safe and Jezzas waffle about the rights of terrorists should show sharp uptick to Tory in polls in coming days.
More free cash for the South East. That's where all the marginals are, right? Great politics in that case.
I can't see flat cap Fred and the left behinds of Stoke being ecstatic to hear more money for rich southerns.
Looks like a very London/South East centric bung to me, way more car journeys to work up here.
It might boost Labour a bit in marginal commuter belt Tory seats like Wycombe, Chingford, Hastings, Uxbridge, Crawley, Chipping Barnet, Thurrock etc they are targeting in the commuter belt but probably not enough to win them.
It will do sod all for voters in Stoke, West Bromwich, Grimsby, Wrexham etc where Labour are trying to defend Leave seats and where voters rarely travel by train anyway and certainly not for work
Jezza's already bought off the northerners by promising them free electricity or whatever it was. With this announcement Jezza's sharing around the fun.
Student loan cancellation has to be coming, surely....
I have joked about this but I now believe we will see this next weekend.
Cancellation and refunds for those who have already paid.
Christ knows what the cost would be but the Tories will need to have their lines ready for it.
Isn’t this quite multifaceted? Like A reality the state is NEVER going to get the money owed, so merely being realistic to admit it? Like who owns it, The debt gets packaged up and privatised in something akin to the banking scandal? Because its lovely money tied up in a great sack of IOU the catch being you are not going to get all of it, why then are you buying it?
He does look a decent political performer. Much better than the lady they used to have whose name escapes me. For those interested, he is interviewed by Jo Coburn on iplayer.
Adam Price was very good on the debate I watched him on (And seemingly again tonight) - I think Labour would be winning (Given how long the Tories have been in power) if he was Labour leader.
West Midlands police have arrested a man who was convicted of the same bomb plot as Usman Khan on suspicion of preparing further terrorist acts. As far as I am aware he is not suspected of involvement in the London Bridge attack, but his licence conditions were reviewed as part of a response to that attack and unrelated facts came to light. Legally he is innocent until proven guilty, but everyone who cares about public safety will agree the police were right to review his licence conditions. No new legislation was needed for them to do it. It wouldn't have been needed to keep Khan under closer watch either. The fact that there was a government without Tories in it until as recently as nine and half years ago didn't tie police hands today. A decent PM would say that not assessing Khan properly was a failure, we will look at how he came to be wrongly classified, if necessary we will legislate, and I am sure all the main political parties will cooperate to defend our country. But instead he tries to blame Labour. Is he going to blame the Liberal Democrats too given that for five years the Tories governed in a coalition with that party, and also David Cameron, since his majority administration didn't undo the Labour legislation either? He's not made of PM material. PS And he's calling the Brown administration "lefty"!
Student loan cancellation has to be coming, surely....
I guess that must be being saved for the last weekend now, to maximise the immediacy of its impact in staying in the mind of students.
Well it isn't just current students, it could be attractive for 30 years old struggling to get on the property ladder because a decent chunk of their wages go on the student loan repayments.
Nah, anyone in their 30s is on the older system of £1k or £3k fees. Most of us have paid off our loans. It's the early to mid 20s lot that have been royally fucked.
Even when the fees with £3k, loads of people took the full loan amount which was what ~£4-5k a year? Lots of those people have gone into jobs that don't pay much more than £24k a year and so even 10 years later they still have a decent chunk of a loan.
Possibly, I think the issue for them was that they didn't start repayments until £23k vs £18k for us, that extra £450 per year makes a difference. I think I had mine paid off when I was 27 but I only had £14k worth of loans.
Adam Price was very good on the debate I watched him on (And seemingly again tonight) - I think Labour would be winning (Given how long the Tories have been in power) if he was Labour leader.
Could be next First Minister of Wales, possibly even propped up by the Tories given how hopeless Mark Drayford is
Student loan cancellation has to be coming, surely....
I have joked about this but I now believe we will see this next weekend.
Cancellation and refunds for those who have already paid.
Christ knows what the cost would be but the Tories will need to have their lines ready for it.
Isn’t this quite multifaceted? Like A reality the state is NEVER going to get the money owed, so merely being realistic to admit it? Like who owns it, The debt gets packaged up and privatised in something akin to the banking scandal? Because its lovely money tied up in a great sack of IOU the catch being you are not going to get all of it, why then are you buying it?
The current system is effectively a capped graduate tax. Graduates pay for their uni. If you do really well in life you end up paying it all back, if you don't, you don't. For the students, it isn't a terrible deal, given 50% go to uni, for the government no so much.
I'd say Jezza has played a blinder with his promise to slash rail fares. Commuters hate the privatized rail companies with a passion, so really won't give a flying fig if their profits have to take a hit. Moreover it will save me an absolute packet! Go Jezza go!
I'd say Jezza has played a blinder with his promise to slash rail fares. Commuters hate the privatized rail companies with a passion, so really won't give a flying fig if their profits have to take a hit. Moreover it will save me an absolute packet! Go Jezza go!
And another gullible is taken for a ride.
The day and weekend belongs to Boris anyway, he politicised the terror incident, he went point scoring on terrorism and did it well, the soundbite of him bbc used was spot on. The optics of Boris clear crisp decision making to keep us safe and Jezzas waffle about the rights of terrorists should show sharp uptick to Tory in polls in coming days.
More free cash for the South East. That's where all the marginals are, right? Great politics in that case.
I can't see flat cap Fred and the left behinds of Stoke being ecstatic to hear more money for rich southerns.
Looks like a very London/South East centric bung to me, way more car journeys to work up here.
It might boost Labour a bit in marginal commuter belt Tory seats like Wycombe, Chingford, Hastings, Uxbridge, Crawley, Chipping Barnet, Thurrock etc they are targeting in the commuter belt but probably not enough to win them.
It will do sod all for voters in Stoke, West Bromwich, Grimsby, Wrexham etc where Labour are trying to defend Leave seats and where voters rarely travel by train anyway and certainly not for work
Jezza's already bought off the northerners by promising them free electricity or whatever it was. With this announcement Jezza's sharing around the fun.
He offered free broadband which northerners use as much as southerners, free rail mainly benefits commuter belt Home Counties southerners
Deltapoll now added to Wiki list - thanks to whoever did this. Con 13% lead so this will change some of the averages calculated earlier today by some posters (though not ELBOW which was of course correct).
Did I read correctly that this is being paid for out of Vehicle taxation earmarked for roads? So Labour’s message for drivers in the midland battleground is that we are going to use taxes that you have paid for driving, to subsidise Southern commuters? That’s even worse than using general taxation!
I'm not opposed to nationalisation of some things, but opposing them is not a sign someone is a Tory. Nor, even, is them being a grown up and working as part of a coalition goverment. Cooperation is a sensible thing.
Did I read correctly that this is being paid for out of Vehicle taxation earmarked for roads? So Labour’s message for drivers in the midland battleground is that we are going to use taxes that you have paid for driving, to subsidise Southern commuters? That’s even worse than using general taxation!
F##k Flat Cap Fred...what does he need a car for...he is only causing global warning with his trips to Asda.
I'd say Jezza has played a blinder with his promise to slash rail fares. Commuters hate the privatized rail companies with a passion, so really won't give a flying fig if their profits have to take a hit. Moreover it will save me an absolute packet! Go Jezza go!
I'd say Jezza has played a blinder with his promise to slash rail fares. Commuters hate the privatized rail companies with a passion, so really won't give a flying fig if their profits have to take a hit. Moreover it will save me an absolute packet! Go Jezza go!
And another gullible is taken for a ride.
The day and weekend belongs to Boris anyway, he politicised the terror incident, he went point scoring on terrorism and did it well, the soundbite of him bbc used was spot on. The optics of Boris clear crisp decision making to keep us safe and Jezzas waffle about the rights of terrorists should show sharp uptick to Tory in polls in coming days.
I'll save some time and put a comment about how Tories' reaction to this policy shows they are panicking about how good an idea it is.
Yes, the Tories need to counter this and fast. Jezza has turned himself into the patron saint of commuters with a single policy announcement. What with Brexit and soaring travel costs, many in the south east feel neglected by Boris, who seems preoccupied with the grotty oiks up north. Jezza, in contrast, is increasingly looking like their striding saviour, a veritable Christ-like figure.
Even as a Corbyn supporter you must realise this isn’t a policy that will have any interest for Labour leavers in the North and Midlands.
I'm not a supporter of Corbyn - he, and all the alternatives at this election, fill me with doom. However, Labours bag of mega-goodies should be enough to secure what they currently have (more or less), and that's all that's needed to screw Boris.
Deltapoll now added to Wiki list - thanks to whoever did this. Con 13% lead so this will change some of the averages calculated earlier today by some posters (though not ELBOW which was of course correct).
It was me wot "authorised" the addition of Deltapoll via the "pending revisions" thing on Wiki! I knew about it last night via Twitter and I have included it in this Sunday's ELBOW.
I'm not opposed to nationalisation of some things, but opposing them is not a sign someone is a Tory. Nor, even, is them being a grown up and working as part of a coalition goverment. Cooperation is a sensible thing.
I think there’s an entirely sensible argument for nationalising the railways. What it doesn’t, and can’t, do is save any money. I’d expect that to be the liberal line.
I'm not opposed to nationalisation of some things, but opposing them is not a sign someone is a Tory. Nor, even, is them being a grown up and working as part of a coalition goverment. Cooperation is a sensible thing.
Student loan cancellation has to be coming, surely....
I guess that must be being saved for the last weekend now, to maximise the immediacy of its impact in staying in the mind of students.
Well it isn't just current students, it could be attractive for 30 years old struggling to get on the property ladder because a decent chunk of their wages go on the student loan repayments.
Nah, anyone in their 30s is on the older system of £1k or £3k fees. Most of us have paid off our loans. It's the early to mid 20s lot that have been royally fucked.
Even when the fees with £3k, loads of people took the full loan amount which was what ~£4-5k a year? Lots of those people have gone into jobs that don't pay much more than £24k a year and so even 10 years later they still have a decent chunk of a loan.
Possibly, I think the issue for them was that they didn't start repayments until £23k vs £18k for us, that extra £450 per year makes a difference. I think I had mine paid off when I was 27 but I only had £14k worth of loans.
The main issue is interest rates, partially the fact that inflation in the early years of 3k fees was very low, and partially that the rules have changed. My loan accrued zero interest until I graduated and then ~1-2% pa. Now it's 6% pa which, in conjunction with the rise to 9k fees means that a lot of people won't even be paying off the interest each year. Just set the interest rate to be in line with CPI. Would solve a whole lot of problems and cost almost nothing - would mostly just tick down the write-off rate by a few points.
Did I read correctly that this is being paid for out of Vehicle taxation earmarked for roads? So Labour’s message for drivers in the midland battleground is that we are going to use taxes that you have paid for driving, to subsidise Southern commuters? That’s even worse than using general taxation!
Student loan cancellation has to be coming, surely....
I guess that must be being saved for the last weekend now, to maximise the immediacy of its impact in staying in the mind of students.
Well it isn't just current students, it could be attractive for 30 years old struggling to get on the property ladder because a decent chunk of their wages go on the student loan repayments.
Nah, anyone in their 30s is on the older system of £1k or £3k fees. Most of us have paid off our loans. It's the early to mid 20s lot that have been royally fucked.
Even when the fees with £3k, loads of people took the full loan amount which was what ~£4-5k a year? Lots of those people have gone into jobs that don't pay much more than £24k a year and so even 10 years later they still have a decent chunk of a loan.
Possibly, I think the issue for them was that they didn't start repayments until £23k vs £18k for us, that extra £450 per year makes a difference. I think I had mine paid off when I was 27 but I only had £14k worth of loans.
The main issue is interest rates, partially the fact that inflation in the early years of 3k fees was very low, and partially that the rules have changed. My loan accrued zero interest until I graduated and then ~1-2% pa. Now it's 6% pa which, in conjunction with the rise to 9k fees means that a lot of people won't even be paying off the interest each year. Just set the interest rate to be in line with CPI. Would solve a whole lot of problems and cost almost nothing - would mostly just tick down the write-off rate by a few points.
Oh, I thought you lot had the same RPI based interest we had. Man we really fucked that one up.
Did I read correctly that this is being paid for out of Vehicle taxation earmarked for roads? So Labour’s message for drivers in the midland battleground is that we are going to use taxes that you have paid for driving, to subsidise Southern commuters? That’s even worse than using general taxation!
If the Tories were in any way competent they would screaming this from the rooftops for the rest of the campaign.
I'm not opposed to nationalisation of some things, but opposing them is not a sign someone is a Tory. Nor, even, is them being a grown up and working as part of a coalition goverment. Cooperation is a sensible thing.
I think there’s an entirely sensible argument for nationalising the railways. What it doesn’t, and can’t, do is save any money. I’d expect that to be the liberal line.
I've heard a few people say that now, but that's the line on all Labour nationalisations now. They are too scared to sell the idea as all the people owning the means of production etc etc, so they've moved on to making it cheaper. Which either leads to increased spending by government to support them or rationing, it never leads to increased efficiency and capacity.
Let's just pray the LDs stand firm on preventing Corbyn economic nonsense. What this means is that Con 295 (maximum) will block Corbyn nonsense. Con 295 + LD 20 + DUP 8 = 323 will be enough. And fewer Con needed if more LDs.
Student loan cancellation has to be coming, surely....
I guess that must be being saved for the last weekend now, to maximise the immediacy of its impact in staying in the mind of students.
Well it isn't just current students, it could be attractive for 30 years old struggling to get on the property ladder because a decent chunk of their wages go on the student loan repayments.
Nah, anyone in their 30s is on the older system of £1k or £3k fees. Most of us have paid off our loans. It's the early to mid 20s lot that have been royally fucked.
Even when the fees with £3k, loads of people took the full loan amount which was what ~£4-5k a year? Lots of those people have gone into jobs that don't pay much more than £24k a year and so even 10 years later they still have a decent chunk of a loan.
Possibly, I think the issue for them was that they didn't start repayments until £23k vs £18k for us, that extra £450 per year makes a difference. I think I had mine paid off when I was 27 but I only had £14k worth of loans.
The main issue is interest rates, partially the fact that inflation in the early years of 3k fees was very low, and partially that the rules have changed. My loan accrued zero interest until I graduated and then ~1-2% pa. Now it's 6% pa which, in conjunction with the rise to 9k fees means that a lot of people won't even be paying off the interest each year. Just set the interest rate to be in line with CPI. Would solve a whole lot of problems and cost almost nothing - would mostly just tick down the write-off rate by a few points.
Yes I agreed. The system I was under (graduated in 05) was visibly a loan with friendly terms. I paid it off quite quickly and didn’t begrudge it. The new system is basically a grad tax badged as a loan*, and you can see why people hate it. The “interest rate” is really just the tax rate. * Edit - except hamfistedly with all sorts of financial wheezes which have now fallen apart. It needs reform, and the interest rates are a good place to start.
Labour's internal polling, their canvassing returns, plus the general voice on the ground: tell them they are losing this election badly, and they need to stem losses to Tories in the north and Mids, and Scotland anyhow-whatever, and the commutery LDs in the south.
Deltapoll now added to Wiki list - thanks to whoever did this. Con 13% lead so this will change some of the averages calculated earlier today by some posters (though not ELBOW which was of course correct).
It was me wot "authorised" the addition of Deltapoll via the "pending revisions" thing on Wiki! I knew about it last night via Twitter and I have included it in this Sunday's ELBOW.
Student loan cancellation has to be coming, surely....
I guess that must be being saved for the last weekend now, to maximise the immediacy of its impact in staying in the mind of students.
Well it isn't just current students, it could be attractive for 30 years old struggling to get on the property ladder because a decent chunk of their wages go on the student loan repayments.
Nah, anyone in their 30s is on the older system of £1k or £3k fees. Most of us have paid off our loans. It's the early to mid 20s lot that have been royally fucked.
Even when the fees with £3k, loads of people took the full loan amount which was what ~£4-5k a year? Lots of those people have gone into jobs that don't pay much more than £24k a year and so even 10 years later they still have a decent chunk of a loan.
Possibly, I think the issue for them was that they didn't start repayments until £23k vs £18k for us, that extra £450 per year makes a difference. I think I had mine paid off when I was 27 but I only had £14k worth of loans.
The main issue is interest rates, partially the fact that inflation in the early years of 3k fees was very low, and partially that the rules have changed. My loan accrued zero interest until I graduated and then ~1-2% pa. Now it's 6% pa which, in conjunction with the rise to 9k fees means that a lot of people won't even be paying off the interest each year. Just set the interest rate to be in line with CPI. Would solve a whole lot of problems and cost almost nothing - would mostly just tick down the write-off rate by a few points.
There is actually a really big problem at uni that no politician is talking about. Student accomodation, especially halls, used to be a really cheap way of living (especailly in a city). It is now more expensive than actually having a mortgage on a whole property in most places. Quite common for halls to cost £150-200 a week (even ones owned and operated by the uni), and also the cheeky sods do stuff like make the kids pay 40 odd weeks of the year even though they aren't there for that long.
Did I read correctly that this is being paid for out of Vehicle taxation earmarked for roads? So Labour’s message for drivers in the midland battleground is that we are going to use taxes that you have paid for driving, to subsidise Southern commuters? That’s even worse than using general taxation!
If the Tories were in any way competent they would screaming this from the rooftops for the rest of the campaign.
Tbh, I'm not sure it's necessary. The voters have worked out Labour aren't to be trusted, why get involved?
I'm not opposed to nationalisation of some things, but opposing them is not a sign someone is a Tory. Nor, even, is them being a grown up and working as part of a coalition goverment. Cooperation is a sensible thing.
Hypocrisy and being out of her depth not so much
Those don't make her a Tory either, even if true. It's a lame, lazy attack along with a healthy dose of Labour entitlement that anyone not a Tory should be united with them on all things, even though LDs are their own party with their own values which will not always align with Labour, and if they did then they'd have no reason to exist.
Labour's internal polling, their canvassing returns, plus the general voice on the ground: tell them they are losing this election badly, and they need to stem losses to Tories in the north and Mids, and Scotland anyhow-whatever, and the commutery LDs in the south.
Everything points that way.
I am not so sure. I actually give Labour credit for their campaign. The pledges might be unworkable and incredibly expensive, but they have thought through demographics to target, how / when to announce them and have done a good job of keeping up the mAOmentum.
Absolutely no mention on SkyNews' half hour programme from 11.00pm as regards Labour's latest Rail Fares bribe. Just how sure are we that this in not an enormous scam?
Student loan cancellation has to be coming, surely....
I guess that must be being saved for the last weekend now, to maximise the immediacy of its impact in staying in the mind of students.
Well it isn't just current students, it could be attractive for 30 years old struggling to get on the property ladder because a decent chunk of their wages go on the student loan repayments.
Nah, anyone in their 30s is on the older system of £1k or £3k fees. Most of us have paid off our loans. It's the early to mid 20s lot that have been royally fucked.
Even when the fees with £3k, loads of people took the full loan amount which was what ~£4-5k a year? Lots of those people have gone into jobs that don't pay much more than £24k a year and so even 10 years later they still have a decent chunk of a loan.
Possibly, I think the issue for them was that they didn't start repayments until £23k vs £18k for us, that extra £450 per year makes a difference. I think I had mine paid off when I was 27 but I only had £14k worth of loans.
The main issue is interest rates, partially the fact that inflation in the early years of 3k fees was very low, and partially that the rules have changed. My loan accrued zero interest until I graduated and then ~1-2% pa. Now it's 6% pa which, in conjunction with the rise to 9k fees means that a lot of people won't even be paying off the interest each year. Just set the interest rate to be in line with CPI. Would solve a whole lot of problems and cost almost nothing - would mostly just tick down the write-off rate by a few points.
There is actually a really big problem at uni that no politician is talking about. Student accomodation, especially halls, used to be a really cheap way of living (especailly in a city). It is now more expensive than actually having a mortgage on a whole property in most places. Quite common for halls to cost £150-200 a week (even ones owned and operated by the uni), and also the cheeky sods do stuff like make the kids pay 40 odd weeks of the year even though they aren't there for that long.
Absolutely. Lots of universities seem to check what the maximum maintenance loan for that academic year is set at, then add £1000.
My first year halls were £260 for a 10 week term. The university now charges £1200 per term for the same halls, with apparently no refurbishment (looking at the state of the pictures on the website). This is in an area where private sector rents are about £150 per month for a houseshare.
I'm not opposed to nationalisation of some things, but opposing them is not a sign someone is a Tory. Nor, even, is them being a grown up and working as part of a coalition goverment. Cooperation is a sensible thing.
Hypocrisy and being out of her depth not so much
Those don't make her a Tory either, even if true. It's a lame, lazy attack along with a healthy dose of Labour entitlement that anyone not a Tory should be united with them on all things, even though LDs are their own party with their own values which will not always align with Labour, and if they did then they'd have no reason to exist.
Student loan cancellation has to be coming, surely....
I guess that must be being saved for the last weekend now, to maximise the immediacy of its impact in staying in the mind of students.
Well it isn't just current students, it could be attractive for 30 years old struggling to get on the property ladder because a decent chunk of their wages go on the student loan repayments.
Nah, anyone in their 30s is on the older system of £1k or £3k fees. Most of us have paid off our loans. It's the early to mid 20s lot that have been royally fucked.
Even when the fees with £3k, loads of people took the full loan amount which was what ~£4-5k a year? Lots of those people have gone into jobs that don't pay much more than £24k a year and so even 10 years later they still have a decent chunk of a loan.
Possibly, I think the issue for them was that they didn't start repayments until £23k vs £18k for us, that extra £450 per year makes a difference. I think I had mine paid off when I was 27 but I only had £14k worth of loans.
The main issue is interest rates, partially the fact that inflation in the early years of 3k fees was very low, and partially that the rules have changed. My loan accrued zero interest until I graduated and then ~1-2% pa. Now it's 6% pa which, in conjunction with the rise to 9k fees means that a lot of people won't even be paying off the interest each year. Just set the interest rate to be in line with CPI. Would solve a whole lot of problems and cost almost nothing - would mostly just tick down the write-off rate by a few points.
There is actually a really big problem at uni that no politician is talking about. Student accomodation, especially halls, used to be a really cheap way of living (especailly in a city). It is now more expensive than actually having a mortgage on a whole property in most places. Quite common for halls to cost £150-200 a week (even ones owned and operated by the uni), and also the cheeky sods do stuff like make the kids pay 40 odd weeks of the year even though they aren't there for that long.
Jesus! I think my halls were “expensive” at around £100 (but all food included) and then when we got our own digs in the second year I paid £35 a week. Times have changed.
Labour's internal polling, their canvassing returns, plus the general voice on the ground: tell them they are losing this election badly, and they need to stem losses to Tories in the north and Mids, and Scotland anyhow-whatever, and the commutery LDs in the south.
Everything points that way.
I am not so sure. I actually give Labour credit for their campaign. The pledges might be unworkable and incredibly expensive, but they have thought through demographics to target, how / when to announce them and have done a good job of keeping up the mAOmentum.
There's a reason most parties don't do this though, they want to at least stay credible in the long term. Labour have reached fantasy levels of spending now.
Student loan cancellation has to be coming, surely....
I guess that must be being saved for the last weekend now, to maximise the immediacy of its impact in staying in the mind of students.
Well it isn't just current students, it could be attractive for 30 years old struggling to get on the property ladder because a decent chunk of their wages go on the student loan repayments.
Nah, anyone in their 30s is on the older system of £1k or £3k fees. Most of us have paid off our loans. It's the early to mid 20s lot that have been royally fucked.
Even when the fees with £3k, loads of people took the full loan amount which was what ~£4-5k a year? Lots of those people have gone into jobs that don't pay much more than £24k a year and so even 10 years later they still have a decent chunk of a loan.
Possibly, I think the issue for them was that they didn't start repayments until £23k vs £18k for us, that extra £450 per year makes a difference. I think I had mine paid off when I was 27 but I only had £14k worth of loans.
I think it’s the ludicrous interest rate that is the real killer. This actually works against the original justification for the policy since the quicker and more well paid you get employment post university, the less you pay (ignoring the writeoff at age 50). Also people always go on about fees. But the debts from accommodation and living cost are pretty substantial. And the problem is that because of the current loan situation there is little really “cheap” accommodation that were traditional student “digs”. The current situation has killed a proper market for accommodation and just made it extremely lucrative for anyone involved.
Labour's internal polling, their canvassing returns, plus the general voice on the ground: tell them they are losing this election badly, and they need to stem losses to Tories in the north and Mids, and Scotland anyhow-whatever, and the commutery LDs in the south.
Everything points that way.
I am not so sure. I actually give Labour credit for their campaign. The pledges might be unworkable and incredibly expensive, but they have thought through demographics to target, how / when to announce them and have done a good job of keeping up the mAOmentum.
On Friday drinks people were literally taking the piss out of Labour's spending policies. One girl even said "I bet they'll do free train travel next". They are a joke. Voters can see through the bribes. It's their own money they are being bribed with.
Deltapoll now added to Wiki list - thanks to whoever did this. Con 13% lead so this will change some of the averages calculated earlier today by some posters (though not ELBOW which was of course correct).
It was me wot "authorised" the addition of Deltapoll via the "pending revisions" thing on Wiki! I knew about it last night via Twitter and I have included it in this Sunday's ELBOW.
Thanks Sunil! If we put the lead to one side and just look at the share - there is a hint that Con may now be edging up to 43 - in the six polls so far with fieldwork from 27 Nov onwards Con are at 43 or higher in four out of six.
Absolutely no mention on SkyNews' half hour programme from 11.00pm as regards Labour's latest Rail Fares bribe. Just how sure are we that this in not an enormous scam?
Well if the reaction to this policy on the bbc twitter story is anything to go by then PB is on the right track (pun intended). Tories and Lib Dem’s should hammer this as uncosted fantasy nonsense that benefits the wealthy in the Southeast with the tax burden on the rest. I’d love to pay 33% less for my commute but I don’t want my taxes to go up, don’t want my train to be even busier, don’t want the quality of trains and service to suffer and don’t want Corbyn as PM.
I hope the car drivers tell him where to stick this bribe.
Absolutely no mention on SkyNews' half hour programme from 11.00pm as regards Labour's latest Rail Fares bribe. Just how sure are we that this in not an enormous scam?
I'd say Jezza has played a blinder with his promise to slash rail fares. Commuters hate the privatized rail companies with a passion, so really won't give a flying fig if their profits have to take a hit. Moreover it will save me an absolute packet! Go Jezza go!
I'd say Jezza has played a blinder with his promise to slash rail fares. Commuters hate the privatized rail companies with a passion, so really won't give a flying fig if their profits have to take a hit. Moreover it will save me an absolute packet! Go Jezza go!
And another gullible is taken for a ride.
The day and weekend belongs to Boris anyway, he politicised the terror incident, he went point scoring on terrorism and did it well, the soundbite of him bbc used was spot on. The optics of Boris clear crisp decision making to keep us safe and Jezzas waffle about the rights of terrorists should show sharp uptick to Tory in polls in coming days.
Again!!
Again what? I am calling this day by day in the most impartial, thoughtful and moderated way on this forum. I didn’t like Corbyns backing of trident. Out of all days in this campaign that really wound me up. I do like the nationalisation plans of utilities because the way they were sold off was botched and needs resetting and this country’s extreme form of capitalism gets us nowhere with productivity the snail broadband fantastic example. I do think this election gives labour a rare and unique opportunity to shake the money tree because of the lack of credibility of their opponents, how ludicrous “strong and stable with Boris, chaos and bankruptcy with labour” sounds from a party whose flagship policy is hard brexit, that was only got over the line by whopping lie on the side of a bus? With polls barely shifting this weekend I think comfortable Boris victory is nailed on 2019 and a massive victory by a leftist labour government nailed on for five years time in the “i was lied to about brexit, I want my job back” election.
46% of Midlands or Welsh voters and 50% of Leave voters did not make a single train journey last year and 41% of Northerners did not either as opposed to 39% of Southerners and just 19% of Londoners and 27% of Remainers who did not.
15% of Northerners only made 1-2 train journeys a year.
Student loan cancellation has to be coming, surely....
I have joked about this but I now believe we will see this next weekend.
Cancellation and refunds for those who have already paid.
Christ knows what the cost would be but the Tories will need to have their lines ready for it.
Serious question about tuition fees. As far as I can recall, my loans had tuition and maintenance all rolled up in one, with no way of splitting out which was which, past the first year of the loan. When people talk about cancelling all student debt, they presumably just mean the tuition bit. Is it actually possible to split it back out again, given how useless the SLC are? Even if they do, that still leaves a bunch of people with tens of thousands of pounds of debt, lots of whom will never pay it off. Surely even Labour wouldn't suggest cancelling debt due to maintenance? Students who lived at home to save on costs and and didn't take extra loans would be furious.
Did I read correctly that this is being paid for out of Vehicle taxation earmarked for roads? So Labour’s message for drivers in the midland battleground is that we are going to use taxes that you have paid for driving, to subsidise Southern commuters? That’s even worse than using general taxation!
I'd say Jezza has played a blinder with his promise to slash rail fares. Commuters hate the privatized rail companies with a passion, so really won't give a flying fig if their profits have to take a hit. Moreover it will save me an absolute packet! Go Jezza go!
I'd say Jezza has played a blinder with his promise to slash rail fares. Commuters hate the privatized rail companies with a passion, so really won't give a flying fig if their profits have to take a hit. Moreover it will save me an absolute packet! Go Jezza go!
And another gullible is taken for a ride.
The day and weekend belongs to Boris anyway, he politicised the terror incident, he went point scoring on terrorism and did it well, the soundbite of him bbc used was spot on. The optics of Boris clear crisp decision making to keep us safe and Jezzas waffle about the rights of terrorists should show sharp uptick to Tory in polls in coming days.
Again!!
Again what? I am calling this day by day in the most impartial, thoughtful and moderated way on this forum. I didn’t like Corbyns backing of trident. Out of all days in this campaign that really wound me up. I do like the nationalisation plans of utilities because the way they were sold off was botched and needs resetting and this country’s extreme form of capitalism gets us nowhere with productivity the snail broadband fantastic example. I do think this election gives labour a rare and unique opportunity to shake the money tree because of the lack of credibility of their opponents, how ludicrous “strong and stable with Boris, chaos and bankruptcy with labour” sounds from a party whose flagship policy is hard brexit, that was only got over the line by whopping lie on the side of a bus? With polls barely shifting this weekend I think comfortable Boris victory is nailed on 2019 and a massive victory by a leftist labour government nailed on for five years time in the “i was lied to about brexit, I want my job back” election.
When presumably all those who voted for Boris will be dead.
Jesus! I think my halls were “expensive” at around £100 (but all food included) and then when we got our own digs in the second year I paid £35 a week. Times have changed.
I know why I heard this from some friends whose kids were going to uni, I thought it was some mistake or their kid was demanding to live in a penthouse or something. But no, that appears to be the going rate these days, and we aren't talking London, we are talking much more affordable places.
Comments
And you are going apparently if it comes.
At least you can start your journey with a cheap rail trip.
Cancellation and refunds for those who have already paid.
Christ knows what the cost would be but the Tories will need to have their lines ready for it.
#freescratchcardsnowyoubastards
Its almost as if the Labour Party is ran by a bunch of Middle Class Champagne Socialist Londoners who are out of class with reality . . . oh.
Desi Bouterse: Suriname president gets 20 years in jail for murder
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-50611555
Or complete bullshit
The railways are already running well over capacity at peak, in some areas they are at double that. Reducing fares will worsen this in the short term, almost to epidemic levels. The whole point of peak and off peak is to move people like me on to less busy times, this takes that away almost completely.
And labour try a dead cat on rail transport
I am beginning to think people will be laughing at them for the rest of the campaign
The country needs a proper opposition
PS And he's calling the Brown administration "lefty"!
Con 13% lead so this will change some of the averages calculated earlier today by some posters (though not ELBOW which was of course correct).
I'm actually laughing at how stupid Corbyn is.
Still waiting for bloody Survation, though!
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/1201090090656845824
Lol.
Just set the interest rate to be in line with CPI. Would solve a whole lot of problems and cost almost nothing - would mostly just tick down the write-off rate by a few points.
What this means is that Con 295 (maximum) will block Corbyn nonsense.
Con 295 + LD 20 + DUP 8 = 323 will be enough.
And fewer Con needed if more LDs.
The new system is basically a grad tax badged as a loan*, and you can see why people hate it. The “interest rate” is really just the tax rate.
* Edit - except hamfistedly with all sorts of financial wheezes which have now fallen apart. It needs reform, and the interest rates are a good place to start.
Everything points that way.
My first year halls were £260 for a 10 week term. The university now charges £1200 per term for the same halls, with apparently no refurbishment (looking at the state of the pictures on the website). This is in an area where private sector rents are about £150 per month for a houseshare.
If we win can we simply round up all these terrorists and take the necessary action. IE hang first ask questions later?
https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1201284399091867649
If we put the lead to one side and just look at the share - there is a hint that Con may now be edging up to 43 - in the six polls so far with fieldwork from 27 Nov onwards Con are at 43 or higher in four out of six.
I hope the car drivers tell him where to stick this bribe.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50621621
I didn’t like Corbyns backing of trident. Out of all days in this campaign that really wound me up.
I do like the nationalisation plans of utilities because the way they were sold off was botched and needs resetting and this country’s extreme form of capitalism gets us nowhere with productivity the snail broadband fantastic example.
I do think this election gives labour a rare and unique opportunity to shake the money tree because of the lack of credibility of their opponents, how ludicrous “strong and stable with Boris, chaos and bankruptcy with labour” sounds from a party whose flagship policy is hard brexit, that was only got over the line by whopping lie on the side of a bus?
With polls barely shifting this weekend I think comfortable Boris victory is nailed on 2019 and a massive victory by a leftist labour government nailed on for five years time in the “i was lied to about brexit, I want my job back” election.
15% of Northerners only made 1-2 train journeys a year.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/transport/survey-results/daily/2018/12/14/217e5/3
He challenged them and they ran off - he called the police and said they were there in less than 2 minutes
Nothing is too good for the workers.
Even if they do, that still leaves a bunch of people with tens of thousands of pounds of debt, lots of whom will never pay it off. Surely even Labour wouldn't suggest cancelling debt due to maintenance? Students who lived at home to save on costs and and didn't take extra loans would be furious.