As a straw in the wind. My parents have lived in Wokingham for over 40 years. My mother has voted Conservative pretty much her entire life. She voted Remain (unlike many others in the family) and was tempted to vote Lib Dem. When I spoke to her a few days ago she thinks there is too much risk in that of letting Jeremy Corbyn in so she will probably vote Tory. I think she is also uncomfortable with the Revoke LD policy due to the damage that would do to our democracy.
I said from the getgo that i think the lib dem revoke policy was a terrible idea. They really should have stuck with second referendum.
That may or may not be the case for this election, but when the next one comes around after the years of political and economic chaos that Brexit will bring, the Lib Dems will be remembered as the ones who tried hardest to stop it and, hopefully, benefit accordingly.
noisywinter said: "Tories have moved out a bit on majority to 1.65. was 1.57 some of yesterday
Hopefully reading too much into this but feeling a bit uneasy!"
I`m finding this election very perplexing. On one hand I want a Tory majority to finish off Corbyn and decide on Brexit (even though I voted Remain); on the other hand I see that a Labour coalition of some sort could provide a path to a confirmatory referendum and not risk the union like (I think) the Boris deal does.
I wish it were possible for Lab/LD/SNP/PC/Green to say NOW what a coalition would look like and confirm the aim would be to instigate a referendum with a futher GE to follow, with Corbyn/Swinson joint leaders.
Are you not slightly concerned that the public might go for free owls for all? I certainly am.
Free owls is one thing. Free owls, bears, dinosaurs [lots of those], penguins, sloth bears, a whole Noah's Ark of freebies, gives Boris an open goal, and I don't think the Tories will repeat Theresa May's incomprehensible mistake of giving Labour a free ride.
So far they are... instead all this too clever by half arty PPB and stupid shit posting a bus meme.
Oh goody, Corbyn says the Labour manifesto will 'knock your socks off'.
I can't wait. The hundreds of billions they've been spaffing around so far are hilarious enough, but we're going to get even more lunacy.
Are you not slightly concerned that the public might go for free owls for all? I certainly am.
The lower middle class has seen stagnating wages / life improvements and with the tories just saying get brexit done, i am genuinely worried a bit like brexit people might go ahh f##k lets roll the dice.
and turn into Venezuela on steroids
I think a majority will see this as being Labours attempt to sell us a bridge Will sure fire up the waverers though
diedwoolie said: "UKIP 42 runners and riders, they should end up under 50,000 votes nationally"
I just wonder whether Leavers may be enticed into voting UKIP where TBP is not standing, perhaps in the mistaken belief that Farage is still associated with UKIP. Could be enough to help LP/LDs in the odd constituency?
On the local Lib Dems - it wasn't the candidate but someone was trying on facebook to give impression the Lib Dems were doing better here than they really are.
Turns out local council votes were being used.....
Oh goody, Corbyn says the Labour manifesto will 'knock your socks off'.
I can't wait. The hundreds of billions they've been spaffing around so far are hilarious enough, but we're going to get even more lunacy.
Are you not slightly concerned that the public might go for free owls for all? I certainly am.
The lower middle class has seen stagnating wages / life improvements and with the tories just saying get brexit done, i am genuinely worried a bit like brexit people might go ahh f##k lets roll the dice.
and turn into Venezuela on steroids
I think a majority will see this as being Labours attempt to sell us a bridge Will sure fire up the waverers though
You know that, i know that, but i do really worry...especially as at the moment the tories tories lead seems to be mostly down to a massive lead among the working class..and i remain skeptical that flat cap fred from Workington is going to be voting tory in any great number.
As a straw in the wind. My parents have lived in Wokingham for over 40 years. My mother has voted Conservative pretty much her entire life. She voted Remain (unlike many others in the family) and was tempted to vote Lib Dem. When I spoke to her a few days ago she thinks there is too much risk in that of letting Jeremy Corbyn in so she will probably vote Tory. I think she is also uncomfortable with the Revoke LD policy due to the damage that would do to our democracy.
I said from the getgo that i think the lib dem revoke policy was a terrible idea. They really should have stuck with second referendum.
That may or may not be the case for this election, but when the next one comes around after the years of political and economic chaos that Brexit will bring, the Lib Dems will be remembered as the ones who tried hardest to stop it and, hopefully, benefit accordingly.
That really is wishful thinking. Haven't the electorate already forgotten about tuition fees?
dyedwoolie said: "No BXP in NW Durham. Cheerio Pidcock"
I think BXP are standing there. But thanks for bringing this constituency to my attention. I didn`t realise how precarious Piddock`s position is. Electoral Calculus have her as only 51% to hold seat.
The subsidised network will offer wholesale access to all operators on an open, transparent and non-discriminatory basis, and will therefore incentivise private investments in the provision of high-speed internet services to households and businesses in the target areas.
It isnt free owls...it is state investment in the infrastructure, not monopoly state provider of the service ie. Not really any different to what previous UK governments have done.
Polling day now falls within the Met Office long range forecast period and they have this to say.
"Through early December, confidence remains very low but there could be a period of more settled weather across much of the UK. This would bring drier conditions for many through the day with a chance of frost and fog developing overnight."
You couldn't hope for a more benign forecast at this time of year, particularly with the ground so saturated.
Tories have moved out a bit on majority to 1.65. was 1.57 some of yesterday
Hopefully reading too much into this but feeling a bit uneasy!
Bad polling incoming?
You never know during elections but there wouldn't usually be much polling now until Saturday evening (and all those polls would currently be in the works)
I would guess this is more likely to be a reaction to Labour's Broadband policy announcement - It may be madness but I guess Lab are dominating the news day today.
Mr Peirot (?): From last thread: I think you well knew that the "fuck off" was figurative. Basically, it is a question of whether you believe the man in Whitehall knows best about how to run a business. All of these organisations are businesses. Not all business people are great business people, but I have yet to meet a "public servant" who has the first clue - and why should they, they have never had the experience, any more than I have experience of brain surgery. Richard Branson is far from perfect, but I would more trust him on matters of business than a numbskull like Corbyn.
Floater said: "Such a shame, my local Lib Dem candidate has just claimed to my wife that their position on Brexit is to put Johnson's deal to the people."
Well, in reality that IS their position. Their Revoke policy only applies if they win a majority (which of course they won`t).
Such a shame, my local Lib Dem candidate has just claimed to my wife that their position on Brexit is to put Johnson's deal to the people.
Not true mate and he has been told that.
I thought he was better than that.
To be fair isnt that their policy 99% of the time they have a chance to influence it? It is only 1% of the time when they form a majority government their policy is revoke. It is arguable which one is their "main" policy.
As a straw in the wind. My parents have lived in Wokingham for over 40 years. My mother has voted Conservative pretty much her entire life. She voted Remain (unlike many others in the family) and was tempted to vote Lib Dem. When I spoke to her a few days ago she thinks there is too much risk in that of letting Jeremy Corbyn in so she will probably vote Tory. I think she is also uncomfortable with the Revoke LD policy due to the damage that would do to our democracy.
I said from the getgo that i think the lib dem revoke policy was a terrible idea. They really should have stuck with second referendum.
That may or may not be the case for this election, but when the next one comes around after the years of political and economic chaos that Brexit will bring, the Lib Dems will be remembered as the ones who tried hardest to stop it and, hopefully, benefit accordingly.
That really is wishful thinking. Haven't the electorate already forgotten about tuition fees?
The Lib Dems benefitted greatly in 2010 from their opposition to the invasion of Iraq 7 years previously. I can see something similar resulting from Brexit. Tuition fees are insignificant in comparison with the repercussions of either of these events.
Punters wondering whether Ultra Remainer Mary 'Houdini' Creagh can hold on again in Brexity marginal Wakefield might be wondering who will replace long]-time and well-known blue team adversary Antony Calvert.
It's Imran Nasir Ahmad-Khan, resident of Bowness-on-Windermere, Cumbria.
If Cumbrians aren't to the liking of Wakey Brexiters, The Brexit Party candidate is from Flat Cap and Ferret Central, aka Windsor.
If southerners don't float the brexity boat, Ryan Kett is standing for the Yorkshire Party. They make Faragists look like Europhiles.
A very long time ago, I used to live in John Redwood's constituency. I never voted for him, though.
What rather puzzles me about these ex-Conservative MPs who are standing as Lib Dems is, what are they, really? They only crossed the floor because of their beliefs about Brexit, and there's more to a political stance than that. Will the new intake of Lib Dem MPs end up undermining the Lib Dem philosophy?
noisywinter said: "Tories have moved out a bit on majority to 1.65. was 1.57 some of yesterday
Hopefully reading too much into this but feeling a bit uneasy!"
I`m finding this election very perplexing. On one hand I want a Tory majority to finish off Corbyn and decide on Brexit (even though I voted Remain); on the other hand I see that a Labour coalition of some sort could provide a path to a confirmatory referendum and not risk the union like (I think) the Boris deal does.
I wish it were possible for Lab/LD/SNP/PC/Green to say NOW what a coalition would look like and confirm the aim would be to instigate a referendum with a futher GE to follow, with Corbyn/Swinson joint leaders.
Your conundrum looks similar to my own, though I don't want Corbyn anywhere near the levers of power. Basically all options are different versions of shit flavoured stew, with varying degrees of shittyness
Get Brexit done is now looking very stale . Any chance of the Tories bringing forward some interesting plans or are they just going to spend the next two weeks trashing Labours .
Get Brexit done is now looking very stale . Any chance of the Tories bringing forward some interesting plans or are they just going to spend the next two weeks trashing Labours .
Get Brexit done is now looking very stale . Any chance of the Tories bringing forward some interesting plans or are they just going to spend the next two weeks trashing Labours .
A very long time ago, I used to live in John Redwood's constituency. I never voted for him, though.
What rather puzzles me about these ex-Conservative MPs who are standing as Lib Dems is, what are they, really? They only crossed the floor because of their beliefs about Brexit, and there's more to a political stance than that. Will the new intake of Lib Dem MPs end up undermining the Lib Dem philosophy?
Good afternoon, everyone.
Because the Tory Party has moved strongly in the direction of Redwood. Centrist people are no longer welcome. There has been a tradition of Orange Book liberalism in the LDs for some time, and of course the two parties share common history. There is very little difference between a genuine One Nation Tory and an Orange Book LD. Much more in common with each other than a One Nationer has with the ERG
A very long time ago, I used to live in John Redwood's constituency. I never voted for him, though.
What rather puzzles me about these ex-Conservative MPs who are standing as Lib Dems is, what are they, really? They only crossed the floor because of their beliefs about Brexit, and there's more to a political stance than that. Will the new intake of Lib Dem MPs end up undermining the Lib Dem philosophy?
Good afternoon, everyone.
Parties evolve. The Conservative and Unionist party are now an English Nationalist party a la UKIP. They just dont fit there so are looking for a home.
The Libdems have the choice of staying as they have been or becoming a broader church to accommodate the views of politicians and voters exiting the Tory and/or Labour party.
Get Brexit done is now looking very stale . Any chance of the Tories bringing forward some interesting plans or are they just going to spend the next two weeks trashing Labours .
Well there is a lot to trash...
The Labour Party is certainly making it easy for them. It is the most inept opposition in my memory and probably all of modern British political history, and it is highly regrettable.
Just makes the base like it more. The message is labour want to give you free stuff and business/ the tories want to stop them.
Just a question of how much promising free stuff is too much, causing people to doubt t it.
As Peter Kellner said this morning labour do not have the confidence of the public in economic matters and in the end I very much doubt all this free stuff is going to impress any other than labour's base
However, by moving the Overton window to the left economically it enables the tax-and-spend fuck-business element in the Conservative Party. I assume Corbyn will lose the election but by converting the Conservatives into something more left wing than Callaghan or even Miliband, he will have one it by proxy. Just as Blair was Thatcher's greatest achievement, so is Boris.
Get Brexit done is now looking very stale . Any chance of the Tories bringing forward some interesting plans or are they just going to spend the next two weeks trashing Labours .
Depends what you mean by interesting plans?
Do you find a Venezuelan future interesting?
More Tory scaremongering . The UK needs a radical change and I’m happy to take my chance on that, if it doesn’t work out then you can change that after 5 years , as compared to Brexit which once done there’s no way back.
Get Brexit done is now looking very stale . Any chance of the Tories bringing forward some interesting plans or are they just going to spend the next two weeks trashing Labours .
Depends what you mean by interesting plans?
Do you find a Venezuelan future interesting?
All the same, he makes a good point. Where is the conservative offer?
Get Brexit done is now looking very stale . Any chance of the Tories bringing forward some interesting plans or are they just going to spend the next two weeks trashing Labours .
Depends what you mean by interesting plans?
Do you find a Venezuelan future interesting?
More Tory scaremongering . The UK needs a radical change and I’m happy to take my chance on that, if it doesn’t work out then you can change that after 5 years , as compared to Brexit which once done there’s no way back.
We've spent the last decade of austerity fixing the deficit Brown bequeathed the country. Austerity after Corbynism will be a magnitude worse than that.
As for Brexit of course there is a way back. If we decide Brexit is a mistake we can rejoin the EU.
Get Brexit done is now looking very stale . Any chance of the Tories bringing forward some interesting plans or are they just going to spend the next two weeks trashing Labours .
Depends what you mean by interesting plans?
Do you find a Venezuelan future interesting?
More Tory scaremongering . The UK needs a radical change and I’m happy to take my chance on that, if it doesn’t work out then you can change that after 5 years , as compared to Brexit which once done there’s no way back.
This is so far from the truth on every level its genuinely worrying.
Get Brexit done is now looking very stale . Any chance of the Tories bringing forward some interesting plans or are they just going to spend the next two weeks trashing Labours .
Depends what you mean by interesting plans?
Do you find a Venezuelan future interesting?
The Venezuelan thing was never much more than a scare story but it isn't even that now because Labour has next to zero chance of winning an outright majority.
Even in the unlikely event Corbyn became next PM it could only be with the support of other Parties, in which case the manacles would be well and truly on.
I tell you who won't be voting Labour after today's announcement.
BT shareholders
I think Labour just saved a bunch of Tory vs Libdem marginal for the tories.
But apparently rock solid safe Tory seats where the Tories got nearly 60% of the vote last time and has a 24k majority over the Lib Dems are now 50/50 shots. If safe seats like that are 50/50 then the Lib Dems would be winning every marginal.
Get Brexit done is now looking very stale . Any chance of the Tories bringing forward some interesting plans or are they just going to spend the next two weeks trashing Labours .
Depends what you mean by interesting plans?
Do you find a Venezuelan future interesting?
The Venezuelan thing was never much more than a scare story but it isn't even that now because Labour has next to zero chance of winning an outright majority.
Even in the unlikely event Corbyn became next PM it could only be with the support of other Parties, in which case the manacles would be well and truly on.
The manacles won't be on, instead it will be a case of everyone demanding their pork to take home and with someone like McDonell in 11 Downing Street the chequebook will be out to give all their 'partners' their own spending with no limitation or restriction.
Who in that coalition is going to say "no we are spending too much" until the government is completely broke?
On the local Lib Dems - it wasn't the candidate but someone was trying on facebook to give impression the Lib Dems were doing better here than they really are.
Turns out local council votes were being used.....
Heard that somewhere before....
Parties talk up their prospects all the time - it's all part of electioneering.
A very long time ago, I used to live in John Redwood's constituency. I never voted for him, though.
What rather puzzles me about these ex-Conservative MPs who are standing as Lib Dems is, what are they, really? They only crossed the floor because of their beliefs about Brexit, and there's more to a political stance than that. Will the new intake of Lib Dem MPs end up undermining the Lib Dem philosophy?
Good afternoon, everyone.
Well, there's only one national party that's not promising to spend money like a drunken sailor, destroy the Union or fuck business.
The Tories have chosen to become the party of commercial irresponsibility - and to expel any MP still in favour of broad-church pragmatism. The LibDem philosophy welcomes sane liberals.
Get Brexit done is now looking very stale . Any chance of the Tories bringing forward some interesting plans or are they just going to spend the next two weeks trashing Labours .
Depends what you mean by interesting plans?
Do you find a Venezuelan future interesting?
More Tory scaremongering . The UK needs a radical change and I’m happy to take my chance on that, if it doesn’t work out then you can change that after 5 years , as compared to Brexit which once done there’s no way back.
This is so far from the truth on every level its genuinely worrying.
The manacles won't be on, instead it will be a case of everyone demanding their pork to take home and with someone like McDonell in 11 Downing Street the chequebook will be out to give all their 'partners' their own spending with no limitation or restriction.
Who in that coalition is going to say "no we are spending too much" until the government is completely broke?
Yes, I think there is a lot of truth in that. A rainbow coalition won't be able to agree on much, but the one thing they will be able to agree on is spending money on each other's pet projects, and the one thing they'll be quite unable to do is to make any hard choices.
Still not as bad a majority Corbyn government, of course.
Get Brexit done is now looking very stale . Any chance of the Tories bringing forward some interesting plans or are they just going to spend the next two weeks trashing Labours .
Depends what you mean by interesting plans?
Do you find a Venezuelan future interesting?
The Venezuelan thing was never much more than a scare story but it isn't even that now because Labour has next to zero chance of winning an outright majority.
Even in the unlikely event Corbyn became next PM it could only be with the support of other Parties, in which case the manacles would be well and truly on.
I imagine that a possible price of coalition support would be a different Labour leader, which would be a relief for all concerned, including Mr Thicky himself.
AnneJGP said: "What rather puzzles me about these ex-Conservative MPs who are standing as Lib Dems is, what are they, really? They only crossed the floor because of their beliefs about Brexit, and there's more to a political stance than that. Will the new intake of Lib Dem MPs end up undermining the Lib Dem philosophy?"
Thank you for posting this. I`ve been posting similar comments myself. It genuinely astounds me that politicians can espouse conservativism one day and liberalism the next (Wollaston is a prime example). Or collectivism one day and liberalism the next (Angela Smith).
The LibDems don`t even bother mentioning J S Mill these days. Note that the Liberal Party (where they are standing) is an alternative.
Get Brexit done is now looking very stale . Any chance of the Tories bringing forward some interesting plans or are they just going to spend the next two weeks trashing Labours .
Depends what you mean by interesting plans?
Do you find a Venezuelan future interesting?
The Venezuelan thing was never much more than a scare story but it isn't even that now because Labour has next to zero chance of winning an outright majority.
Even in the unlikely event Corbyn became next PM it could only be with the support of other Parties, in which case the manacles would be well and truly on.
I imagine that a possible price of coalition support would be a different Labour leader, which would be a relief for all concerned, including Mr Thicky himself.
Get Brexit done is now looking very stale . Any chance of the Tories bringing forward some interesting plans or are they just going to spend the next two weeks trashing Labours .
Depends what you mean by interesting plans?
Do you find a Venezuelan future interesting?
The Venezuelan thing was never much more than a scare story but it isn't even that now because Labour has next to zero chance of winning an outright majority.
Even in the unlikely event Corbyn became next PM it could only be with the support of other Parties, in which case the manacles would be well and truly on.
I imagine that a possible price of coalition support would be a different Labour leader, which would be a relief for all concerned, including Mr Thicky himself.
McDonnell wouldnt be going anywhere, which is far more worrying than uncle thicky.
The manacles won't be on, instead it will be a case of everyone demanding their pork to take home and with someone like McDonell in 11 Downing Street the chequebook will be out to give all their 'partners' their own spending with no limitation or restriction.
Who in that coalition is going to say "no we are spending too much" until the government is completely broke?
Yes, I think there is a lot of truth in that. A rainbow coalition won't be able to agree on much, but the one thing they will be able to agree on is spending money on each other's pet projects, and the one thing they'll be quite unable to do is to make any hard choices.
Still not as bad a majority Corbyn government, of course.
How long do people think a rainbow coalition would last? I am thinking less than a year so budgets and finances are not a particularly big deal, especially 10 year type projects.
I tell you who won't be voting Labour after today's announcement.
BT shareholders
I think Labour just saved a bunch of Tory vs Libdem marginal for the tories.
But apparently rock solid safe Tory seats where the Tories got nearly 60% of the vote last time and has a 24k majority over the Lib Dems are now 50/50 shots. If safe seats like that are 50/50 then the Lib Dems would be winning every marginal.
People are ignoring the polls.
They show libdems having 20 seats on Dec 13th not 40
I am probably biased, but it has always seemed there is something of the night about Redwood. A very weird man. Difficult to imagine he would have much of a personal vote base based on his personal appeal.
Comments
Hopefully reading too much into this but feeling a bit uneasy!"
I`m finding this election very perplexing. On one hand I want a Tory majority to finish off Corbyn and decide on Brexit (even though I voted Remain); on the other hand I see that a Labour coalition of some sort could provide a path to a confirmatory referendum and not risk the union like (I think) the Boris deal does.
I wish it were possible for Lab/LD/SNP/PC/Green to say NOW what a coalition would look like and confirm the aim would be to instigate a referendum with a futher GE to follow, with Corbyn/Swinson joint leaders.
Not true mate and he has been told that.
I thought he was better than that.
Arf!
I think a majority will see this as being Labours attempt to sell us a bridge
Will sure fire up the waverers though
I just wonder whether Leavers may be enticed into voting UKIP where TBP is not standing, perhaps in the mistaken belief that Farage is still associated with UKIP. Could be enough to help LP/LDs in the odd constituency?
Turns out local council votes were being used.....
Heard that somewhere before....
There is a guy called Peter Telford standing
"No BXP in NW Durham. Cheerio Pidcock"
I think BXP are standing there. But thanks for bringing this constituency to my attention. I didn`t realise how precarious Piddock`s position is. Electoral Calculus have her as only 51% to hold seat.
https://tinyurl.com/yk4htdv3
It isnt free owls...it is state investment in the infrastructure, not monopoly state provider of the service ie. Not really any different to what previous UK governments have done.
Someone better let Jo know
You never know during elections but there wouldn't usually be much polling now until Saturday evening (and all those polls would currently be in the works)
I would guess this is more likely to be a reaction to Labour's Broadband policy announcement - It may be madness but I guess Lab are dominating the news day today.
I think you well knew that the "fuck off" was figurative. Basically, it is a question of whether you believe the man in Whitehall knows best about how to run a business. All of these organisations are businesses. Not all business people are great business people, but I have yet to meet a "public servant" who has the first clue - and why should they, they have never had the experience, any more than I have experience of brain surgery. Richard Branson is far from perfect, but I would more trust him on matters of business than a numbskull like Corbyn.
"Such a shame, my local Lib Dem candidate has just claimed to my wife that their position on Brexit is to put Johnson's deal to the people."
Well, in reality that IS their position. Their Revoke policy only applies if they win a majority (which of course they won`t).
https://twitter.com/HighlandCouncil/status/1195311955734597632
https://order-order.com/2019/11/15/labour-candidates-campaign-reported-police-office-bust/
Isn't she supposed to be losing her seat? Or was that just the Sun getting over excited?
https://order-order.com/2019/11/15/caller-interrupts-bbc-presenter-defend-boris-nhs/
Punters wondering whether Ultra Remainer Mary 'Houdini' Creagh can hold on again in Brexity marginal Wakefield might be wondering who will replace long]-time and well-known blue team adversary Antony Calvert.
It's Imran Nasir Ahmad-Khan, resident of Bowness-on-Windermere,
Cumbria.
If Cumbrians aren't to the liking of Wakey Brexiters, The Brexit Party candidate is from Flat Cap and Ferret Central, aka Windsor.
If southerners don't float the brexity boat, Ryan Kett is standing for the Yorkshire Party. They make Faragists look like Europhiles.
Lab hold, methinks. 6/5.
What rather puzzles me about these ex-Conservative MPs who are standing as Lib Dems is, what are they, really? They only crossed the floor because of their beliefs about Brexit, and there's more to a political stance than that. Will the new intake of Lib Dem MPs end up undermining the Lib Dem philosophy?
Good afternoon, everyone.
https://twitter.com/BallotBoxScot/status/1195313292367028229
Do you find a Venezuelan future interesting?
The Libdems have the choice of staying as they have been or becoming a broader church to accommodate the views of politicians and voters exiting the Tory and/or Labour party.
"Another SNP victory assured and under 7% for Labour"
What`s your current prediction on the number of SNP seats?
As for Brexit of course there is a way back. If we decide Brexit is a mistake we can rejoin the EU.
Shame.
You OK, nico?
Though I think that helps Pidcock rather than hurts.
Even in the unlikely event Corbyn became next PM it could only be with the support of other Parties, in which case the manacles would be well and truly on.
Ha - they always do!
Who in that coalition is going to say "no we are spending too much" until the government is completely broke?
Are you a Richard Burgon fanboy?
The Tories have chosen to become the party of commercial irresponsibility - and to expel any MP still in favour of broad-church pragmatism. The LibDem philosophy welcomes sane liberals.
Not sure what the advantage is of making a Grand Prix's markets slightly harder to find is.
Still not as bad a majority Corbyn government, of course.
Transfers from Labour
Green 18
Lib Dem 29
Conservative 4
Independent 26
SNP 18
"What rather puzzles me about these ex-Conservative MPs who are standing as Lib Dems is, what are they, really? They only crossed the floor because of their beliefs about Brexit, and there's more to a political stance than that. Will the new intake of Lib Dem MPs end up undermining the Lib Dem philosophy?"
Thank you for posting this. I`ve been posting similar comments myself. It genuinely astounds me that politicians can espouse conservativism one day and liberalism the next (Wollaston is a prime example). Or collectivism one day and liberalism the next (Angela Smith).
The LibDems don`t even bother mentioning J S Mill these days. Note that the Liberal Party (where they are standing) is an alternative.
Does Matron know what you're up to on the internet?
They show libdems having 20 seats on Dec 13th not 40