Posts saying 'at this point in the 2017 campaign the Tories were 15 points ahead' seem to have dried up
I've been away at a wedding and am now just catching up.
Current Tory lead is 11.0%. It was 17.8% at this stage of GE2017.
That was before the dementia tax disaster Boris will not repeat and with the Brexit Party included which was not the case in 2017
True, but the Tory vote share only fell by 3% in the period D-31 to Election Day.
And the current polls are showing it averaging c. 39%, so 4.5% lower than the GE 2017 result (both exc. NI).
The Tory vote fell by 4% in favour of Labour post dementia tax, the UKIP vote also collapsed in Labour's favour, the Brexit Party are now going hard in Labour areas
Oh dear. Nothing to do with her politics. My wife knew her in the early 90s when she (Drummond) was the leading light in the Winchester branch of the National Childbirth Trust. My wife is not a political animal or one to make enemies easily but she described Drummond as the most obnoxious individual she ever came across. She described her as a cross between Penelope Keith in her role from 'To the manor born' and Margaret Thatcher.
I’m not sure the Tories are in charge of Farage’s decision.
I am more cynical than you. Cui bono? The consensus seems to be the Tories. And I’m supposed to believe the Tories had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Hmm....
Jonathon was saying the same thing earlier, and it seems like a bizarre obsession to me. What difference does it make if they did? They don't get everything that they want by the fact of him standing anywhere, since not everyone agrees on cui bono why are you certain the Tories are the ones who will, even if they did have discussions with him what difference does that make as either they swayed him to step down or he chose to, and it leads to the same outcome. So really, what's with all this 'hmm'ing where its presented as some tremendous potential reveltation if the Tories and Farage did discuss things with him? It's positive or negatives depending on what side you stand aren't affected either way, yet its presented like this would be a killer fact.
Not presenting it as some killer fact merely my opinion that the Conservative party as was has died and been replaced by Brexit/UKIP. I find that depressing because there was something to admire about the genuine Conservative party. Whereas what has replaced it is mean-minded, incoherent and seems to value nothing about what is best about Britain.
The reports of the death of the Conservative Party have been greatly exaggerated.
The new intake will be very much One Nation Conservatives.
There is some prospect of a Boris pivot to the centre if he gets a decent majority. The Trump pivot never happened because Trump is an authentically mad bastard seriously invested in his own delusions. Boris is only invested in the success of Boris, and even if he is elected by right wing bastards he is likely to be more comfortable governing as a cuddly, one nation, Cameron before the crash style tory if his party will let him get away with it.
Your optimistic! I don't believe all the one nation stuff BJ comes out with, just as I never believed the one nation bluster that came from Cameron. What is one nation about cutting disability benefits or freezing JSA whilst borrowing money to reduce capital gains tax?
There hasn't been a One Nation Tory PM since Ted Heath. John Major tried his best but was surrounded by, er, bastards.
Today has brought 2 more depressing reasons for hoping the Tories don’t succeed:-
Yuck, yuck.
Meanwhile Labour’s vote share creeps up.
More yuck.
If only they could both lose.
I’m not sure the Tories are in charge of Farage’s decision.
I am more cynical than you. Cui bono? The consensus seems to be the Tories. And I’m supposed to believe the Tories had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Hmm....
Jonathon was saying the same thing earlier, and it seems like a bizarre obsession to me. What difference does it make if they did? They don't getnce not everyone agrees on cui bono why are y It's positive or negatives depending on what side you stand aren't affected either way, yet its presented like this would be a killer fact.
Not presenting it as some killer fact merely my opinion that the Conservative party as was has died and been replaced by Brexit/UKIP. I find that depressing because there was something to admire about the genuine Conservative party. Whereas what has replaced it is mean-minded, incoherent and seems to value nothing about what is best about Britain.
The reports of the death of the Conservative Party have been greatly exaggerated.
The new intake will be very much One Nation Conservatives.
There is some prospect of a Boris pivot to the centre if he gets a decent majority. The Trump pivot never happened because Trump is an authentically mad bastard seriously invested in his own delusions. Boris is only invested in the success of Boris, and even if he is elected by right wing bastards he is likely to be more comfortable governing as a cuddly, one nation, Cameron before the crash style tory if his party will let him get away with it.
Your optimistic! I don't believe all the one nation stuff BJ comes out with, just as I never believed the one nation bluster that came from Cameron. What is one nation about cutting disability benefits or freezing JSA whilst borrowing money to reduce capital gains tax?
What is one nation about Brexit, the most divisive issue of our time?
Not difficult to see which part of the nation will pay the largest part of the cost.
+1 BJ and the Tories are not One Nation Tories! It is just a slogan used to trick people into believing they are governing in everyone's interests instead of the top 30% Income households.
Today has brought 2 more depressing reasons for hoping the Tories don’t succeed:-
1. Farage giving them a free run in some seats. 2. The Tories proposal to renege on what has been agreed with the Irish government about prosecuting soldiers for crimes committed during the Troubles. Bad law, bad policy, morally repulsive and shows Ireland and others that the word of the British government cannot be relied upon.
Yuck, yuck.
Meanwhile Labour’s vote share creeps up.
More yuck.
If only they could both lose.
Relax cycle free, it’s a bit of unthoughthrough election fluff from Boris that will not happen either because of the far greater impact trying to put NI terrorists away who will be saved under this change, or, where Boris caveated with “unless new evidence comes to light” that caveat is used in 100% of future cases. If there was further detail it would clear both those points up, but at same time further detail render this election promise a deceit.
Today has brought 2 more depressing reasons for hoping the Tories don’t succeed:-
1. Farage giving them a free run in some seats. 2. The Tories proposal to renege on what has been agreed with the Irish government about prosecuting soldiers for crimes committed during the Troubles. Bad law, bad policy, morally repulsive and shows Ireland and others that the word of the British government cannot be relied upon.
Yuck, yuck.
Meanwhile Labour’s vote share creeps up.
More yuck.
If only they could both lose.
I’m not sure the Tories are in charge of Farage’s decision.
I am more cynical than you. Cui bono? The consensus seems to be the Tories. And I’m supposed to believe the Tories had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Hmm....
Jonathon was saying the same thing earlier, and it seems like a bizarre obsession to me. What difference does it make if they did? They don't get everything that they want by the fact of him standing anywhere, since not everyone agrees on cui bono why are you certain the Tories are the ones who will, even if they did have discussions with him what difference does that make as either they swayed him to step down or he chose to, and it leads to the same outcome. So really, what's with all this 'hmm'ing where its presented as some tremendous potential reveltation if the Tories and Farage did discuss things with him? It's positive or negatives depending on what side you stand aren't affected either way, yet its presented like this would be a killer fact.
Not presenting it as some killer fact merely my opinion that the Conservative party as was has died and been replaced by Brexit/UKIP. I find that depressing because there was something to admire about the genuine Conservative party. Whereas what has replaced it is mean-minded, incoherent and seems to value nothing about what is best about Britain.
The reports of the death of the Conservative Party have been greatly exaggerated.
The new intake will be very much One Nation Conservatives.
The nation in question being Anglosphere loyalists who would cheerfully nuke the UK if they thought it would add a penny to their diversified trust fund.
I’m not sure the Tories are in charge of Farage’s decision.
I am more cynical than you. Cui bono? The consensus seems to be the Tories. And I’m supposed to believe the Tories had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Hmm....
Jonathon was saying the same thing earlier, and it seems like a bizarre obsession to me. What difference does it make if they did? They don't get everything that they want by the fact of him standing anywhere, since not everyone agrees on cui bono why are you certain the Tories are the ones who will, even if they did have discussions with him what difference does that make as either they swayed him to step down or he chose to, and it leads to the same outcome. So really, what's with all this 'hmm'ing where its presented as some tremendous potential reveltation if the Tories and Farage did discuss things with him? It's positive or negatives depending on what side you stand aren't affected either way, yet its presented like this would be a killer fact.
Not presenting it as some killer fact merely my opinion that the Conservative party as was has died and been replaced by Brexit/UKIP. I find that depressing because there was something to admire about the genuine Conservative party. Whereas what has replaced it is mean-minded, incoherent and seems to value nothing about what is best about Britain.
The reports of the death of the Conservative Party have been greatly exaggerated.
The new intake will be very much One Nation Conservatives.
There is some prospect of a Boris pivot to the centre if he gets a decent majority. The Trump pivot never happened because Trump is an authentically mad bastard seriously invested in his own delusions. Boris is only invested in the success of Boris, and even if he is elected by right wing bastards he is likely to be more comfortable governing as a cuddly, one nation, Cameron before the crash style tory if his party will let him get away with it.
Your optimistic! I don't believe all the one nation stuff BJ comes out with, just as I never believed the one nation bluster that came from Cameron. What is one nation about cutting disability benefits or freezing JSA whilst borrowing money to reduce capital gains tax?
There hasn't been a One Nation Tory PM since Ted Heath. John Major tried his best but was surrounded by, er, bastards.
The definition of a 'One Nation' government is a government which takes from 'people like them' and gives to 'people like us'.
Bozo decided a Cobra meeting would look good optics .
More faux empathy and concern designed to dupe people into thinking he gives two hoots .
BJ is just doing what every Government does, which is using the state apparatus for political gain. It projects power if he can go on the TV and say "we pledge £xx Million to the communities affected by the recent floods".
Remainers might think a rampant farage is sign Brexit is in the ascendency, but a farage humiliated like this is sign brexit is in the balance. But look whose humiliated him, Cummings, not remainers. 🙂
But hang on! Is the real talking point here what Boris said in his video?
He ruled out extending the transition period for Brexit beyond 2020. But it’s not that because nobody believes he will stick to this deadline, impractical with the amount of work still needed to be done, hence Boris in the video talking up his genius as negotiator how quickly he got the new brexit deal, which is a lie, he put Mays deal in a saucepan, heated it up, and threw in a bit of surrender on northern island May refused to do. So many factors out of Boris control to trust such a promise.
But in his video Boris said Britain would aim for a free trade agreement ‘on the model of a super Canada-plus arrangement’. Wow. That is remarkably specific in the middle of an election campaign, RIPPING UP THE CURRENT POLITICAL DECLARATION to get Farage to back you. A very clear statement of intent for anyone hoping for a softer brexit in the end, remainers, even brexiteers who wanted softer brexit than that, wondering today to stick with Conservatives in the GE because they could get a softer brexit in the end. Doesn’t look like that’s an option for you now, does it?
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Comparing two graphs from completely different elections with completely different circumstances and pinning your electoral strategy on it is wishful thinking.
Bozo decided a Cobra meeting would look good optics .
More faux empathy and concern designed to dupe people into thinking he gives two hoots .
Will we see him in a helicopter with a biggles helmet like Gordon Brown did when he wanted to show some faux empathy designed to dupe people into thinking he gave two hoots ?
I am more cynical than you. Cui bono? The consensus seems to be the Tories. And I’m supposed to believe the Tories had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Hmm....
Jonathon was saying the same thing earlier, and it seems like a bizarre obsession to me. What difference does it make if they did? They don't get everything that they want by the fact of him standing anywhere, since not everyone agrees on cui bono why are you certain the Tories are the ones who will, even if they did have discussions with him what difference does that make as either they swayed him to step down or he chose to, and it leads to the same outcome. So really, what's with all this 'hmm'ing where its presented as some tremendous potential reveltation if the Tories and Farage did discuss things with him? It's positive or negatives depending on what side you stand aren't affected either way, yet its presented like this would be a killer fact.
Not presenting it as some killer fact merely my opinion that the Conservative party as was has died and been replaced by Brexit/UKIP. I find that depressing because there was something to admire about the genuine Conservative party. Whereas what has replaced it is mean-minded, incoherent and seems to value nothing about what is best about Britain.
The reports of the death of the Conservative Party have been greatly exaggerated.
The new intake will be very much One Nation Conservatives.
There is some prospect of a Boris pivot to the centre if he gets a decent majority. The Trump pivot never happened because Trump is an authentically mad bastard seriously invested in his own delusions. Boris is only invested in the success of Boris, and even if he is elected by right wing bastards he is likely to be more comfortable governing as a cuddly, one nation, Cameron before the crash style tory if his party will let him get away with it.
Your optimistic! I don't believe all the one nation stuff BJ comes out with, just as I never believed the one nation bluster that came from Cameron. What is one nation about cutting disability benefits or freezing JSA whilst borrowing money to reduce capital gains tax?
There hasn't been a One Nation Tory PM since Ted Heath. John Major tried his best but was surrounded by, er, bastards.
The definition of a 'One Nation' government is a government which takes from 'people like them' and gives to 'people like us'.
Yup. I would use less polite terms, but I think your version is more palatable.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Single figures?
ELBOW week-ending 3rd November = 11.25% lead ELBOW week-ending 10th November = 10.75% lead
That picture of Corbyn. Which crap films are, or are not, Christmas films. The rubbish mural. Pineapple pizza. AV.
We're caught in a constant loop.
With Labour and the Tories going to trawl through facebook and twitter accounts for old scandals to mine, old issues are going to be bumped up time and again even more than usual, and I'm helpless but to respond. Lack of impulse control.
Frankly the mural one I think could so easily be dropped since Corbyn apologised and provided an explanation (whether one accepts it or not), so it really should have no legs left as a political issue, but for some reason people love to carry on the fight he decided not to have. I'm not sure who that is supposed to benefit. It's not him, because he conceded that one years ago!
Corbyn agreed it was anti semitic - some of his candidate mp's and posters on here seem not to have got the message.
They are defending him by calling him a liar.
No. Lying is deliberate deceit. If you (or Corbyn for that matter) believe it is anti-semitic, and I believe it isn't, there's not necessarily a lie there. Either view can be wrong without lying.
Bozo decided a Cobra meeting would look good optics .
More faux empathy and concern designed to dupe people into thinking he gives two hoots .
Will we see him in a helicopter with a biggles helmet like Gordon Brown did when he wanted to show some faux empathy designed to dupe people into thinking he gave two hoots ?
Today has brought 2 more depressing reasons for hoping the Tories don’t succeed:-
1. Farage giving them a free run in some seats. 2. The Tories proposal to renege on what has been agreed with the Irish government about prosecuting soldiers for crimes committed during the Troubles. Bad law, bad policy, morally repulsive and shows Ireland and others that the word of the British government cannot be relied upon.
Yuck, yuck.
Meanwhile Labour’s vote share creeps up.
More yuck.
If only they could both lose.
I’m not sure the Tories are in charge of Farage’s decision.
I am more cynical than you. Cui bono? The consensus seems to be the Tories. And I’m supposed to believe the Tories had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Hmm....
Jonathon was saying the same thing earlier, and it seems like a bizarre obsession to me. What difference does it make if they did? They don't get everything that they want by the fact of him standing anywhere, since not everyone agrees on cui bono why are you certain the Tories are the ones who will, even if they did have discussions with him what difference does that make as either they swayed him to step down or he chose to, and it leads to the same outcome. So really, what's with all this 'hmm'ing where its presented as some tremendous potential reveltation if the Tories and Farage did discuss things with him? It's positive or negatives depending on what side you stand aren't affected either way, yet its presented like this would be a killer fact.
Not presenting it as some killer fact merely my opinion that the Conservative party as was has died and been replaced by Brexit/UKIP. I find that depressing because there was something to admire about the genuine Conservative party. Whereas what has replaced it is mean-minded, incoherent and seems to value nothing about what is best about Britain.
The reports of the death of the Conservative Party have been greatly exaggerated.
The new intake will be very much One Nation Conservatives.
The PM is very much a One Nation Conservative.
People should stop confusing One Nation with Remainer. They are not synonyms.
Modern capitalism: outsource your distribution to a company that can't manage to pay its employees what little it has agreed to pay them and consequently face a strike crippling your distribution during your busiest period of trading. Good work! Bonuses all round!
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Sorry that is wrong. The last 5 polls on wiki frommthis weekend give 12-13-12-10-8.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Comparing two graphs from completely different elections with completely different circumstances and pinning your electoral strategy on it is wishful thinking.
I haven't compared anything, thanks. Haven't looked at any graphs.
I'm just pointing out that with a month to go the tory lead seems to be in single figures.
Labour will take that quite happily right now.
Forgive me for saying so, but I do get the impression that tories are starting to get a bit jittery. I'm seeing it 'out there' and I'm seeing it on this site.
That picture of Corbyn. Which crap films are, or are not, Christmas films. The rubbish mural. Pineapple pizza. AV.
We're caught in a constant loop.
With Labour and the Tories going to trawl through facebook and twitter accounts for old scandals to mine, old issues are going to be bumped up time and again even more than usual, and I'm helpless but to respond. Lack of impulse control.
Frankly the mural one I think could so easily be dropped since Corbyn apologised and provided an explanation (whether one accepts it or not), so it really should have no legs left as a political issue, but for some reason people love to carry on the fight he decided not to have. I'm not sure who that is supposed to benefit. It's not him, because he conceded that one years ago!
Corbyn agreed it was anti semitic - some of his candidate mp's and posters on here seem not to have got the message.
1) Corbyn agreeing that, whether for pragmatic reasons, or not, doesn't make or prove it anti-semitic. 2) Since you're likely to be including me when referring to 'posters on here', I have to repeat, my point is that the mural is not *obviously* anti-semitic. 3) Since you appear to think it is, it would be interesting to know what exactly about it is anti-semitic about it and apparent?
I think that mural is anti Semitic because “the few” deciding the fate of the many clearly painted with the characteristics of Jewish people.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Sorry that is wrong. The last 5 polls on wiki frommthis weekend give 12-13-12-10-8.
It isn't clearly anti-semitic. If you think it is, can you explain?
I never get tired of this classic. Even some otherwise very sensible people use it. Butpeople claiming it wasn't clearly anti-semitic should ask this chap about that:
Jeremy Corbyn has expressed "sincere regret" at failing to look more closely at an allegedly anti-Semitic mural in London before questioning its removal...
In a statement, Mr Corbyn said he had intended to make a "general comment" about the removal of public art on the grounds of freedom of speech.
He added: "I sincerely regret that I did not look more closely at the image I was commenting on, the contents of which are deeply disturbing and anti-Semitic.
Now, not everything Mr Corbyn says is true. But unless he was lying because he is weak, he at least thinks it was clearly anti-semitic since it was only because of poor attention that he did not spot that immediately. I think it highly unlikely he would defend himself on the grounds of poor attention being given if it was credible to use another defence.
I don't expect Corbyn was lying; perhaps misconceived, which is very different. I never get tired of this classic 'the mural was anti-semitic' with still no explanation as to why. (Corbyn's view of it being anti-semitic is not an explanation why). I'm happy to be illuminated otherwise if I'm misconceived and missed something?
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Comparing two graphs from completely different elections with completely different circumstances and pinning your electoral strategy on it is wishful thinking.
I haven't compared anything, thanks. Haven't looked at any graphs.
I'm just pointing out that with a month to go the tory lead seems to be in single figures.
Labour will take that quite happily right now.
Forgive me for saying so, but I do get the impression that tories are starting to get a bit jittery. I'm seeing it 'out there' and I'm seeing it on this site.
Tories aren't starting to get a bit jittery.
Tories have been jittery since 22:00 on 08/06/17 [DavidL and others got jittery before then] and will be jittery until 22:00 on 12/12/19 whatever the polls say.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Sorry that is wrong. The last 5 polls on wiki frommthis weekend give 12-13-12-10-8.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Comparing two graphs from completely different elections with completely different circumstances and pinning your electoral strategy on it is wishful thinking.
I haven't compared anything, thanks. Haven't looked at any graphs.
I'm just pointing out that with a month to go the tory lead seems to be in single figures.
Labour will take that quite happily right now.
Forgive me for saying so, but I do get the impression that tories are starting to get a bit jittery. I'm seeing it 'out there' and I'm seeing it on this site.
I'm curious as to why you think the lead is in single figures.
According to wiki the last four poll leads were 12%, 13%, 12% and 10%:
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Sorry that is wrong. The last 5 polls on wiki frommthis weekend give 12-13-12-10-8.
You are in danger of becoming a bit over excited
I agree with big G. All polling companies have to have Labour within 5 points in the last week of the campaign to justify that sort of excitement.
Today has brought 2 more depressing reasons for hoping the Tories don’t succeed:-
1. Farage giving them a free run in some seats. 2. The Tories proposal to renege on what has been agreed with the Irish government about prosecuting soldiers for crimes committed during the Troubles. Bad law, bad policy, morally repulsive and shows Ireland and others that the word of the British government cannot be relied upon.
Yuck, yuck.
Meanwhile Labour’s vote share creeps up.
More yuck.
If only they could both lose.
I’m not sure the Tories are in charge of Farage’s decision.
I am more cynical than you. Cui bono? The consensus seems to be the Tories. And I’m supposed to believe the Tories had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Hmm....
Jonathon was saying the same thing earlier, and it seems like a bizarre obsession to me. What difference does it make if they did? They don't get everything that they want by the fact of him standing anywhere, since not everyone agrees on cui bono why are you certain the Tories are the ones who will, even if they did have discussions with him what difference does that make as either they swayed him to step down or he chose to, and it leads to the same outcome. So really, what's with all this 'hmm'ing where its presented as some tremendous potential reveltation if the Tories and Farage did discuss things with him? It's positive or negatives depending on what side you stand aren't affected either way, yet its presented like this would be a killer fact.
Not presenting it as some killer fact merely my opinion that the Conservative party as was has died and been replaced by Brexit/UKIP. I find that depressing because there was something to admire about the genuine Conservative party. Whereas what has replaced it is mean-minded, incoherent and seems to value nothing about what is best about Britain.
The reports of the death of the Conservative Party have been greatly exaggerated.
The new intake will be very much One Nation Conservatives.
The PM is very much a One Nation Conservative.
People should stop confusing One Nation with Remainer. They are not synonyms.
Yes, very much so. Similarly, there is often a lazy belief that dry as dust economically = socially conservative = Eurosceptic. And sometimes it does. But often it doesn't. Calling anyone Eurosceptic right-wing is confusing and unhelpful. There are members of all parties who fall into one of these categories.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Single figures?
ELBOW week-ending 3rd November = 11.25% lead ELBOW week-ending 10th November = 10.75% lead
Someone who doesn't know their arse from their ELBOW......
Today has brought 2 more depressing reasons for hoping the Tories don’t succeed:-
1. Farage giving them a free run in some seats. 2. The Tories proposal to renege on what has been agreed with the Irish government about prosecuting soldiers for crimes committed during the Troubles. Bad law, bad policy, morally repulsive and shows Ireland and others that the word of the British government cannot be relied upon.
Yuck, yuck.
Meanwhile Labour’s vote share creeps up.
More yuck.
If only they could both lose.
I’m not sure the Tories are in charge of Farage’s decision.
I am more cynical than you. Cui bono? The consensus seems to be the Tories. And I’m supposed to believe the Tories had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Hmm....
Jonathon was saying the same thing earlier, and it seems like a bizarre obsession to me. What difference does it make if they did? They don't get everything that they want by the fact of him standing anywhere, since not everyone agrees on cui bono why are you certain the Tories are the ones who will, even if they did have discussions with him what difference does that make as either they swayed him to step down or he chose to, and it leads to the same outcome. So really, what's with all this 'hmm'ing where its presented as some tremendous potential reveltation if the Tories and Farage did discuss things with him? It's positive or negatives depending on what side you stand aren't affected either way, yet its presented like this would be a killer fact.
Not presenting it as some killer fact merely my opinion that the Conservative party as was has died and been replaced by Brexit/UKIP. I find that depressing because there was something to admire about the genuine Conservative party. Whereas what has replaced it is mean-minded, incoherent and seems to value nothing about what is best about Britain.
The reports of the death of the Conservative Party have been greatly exaggerated.
The new intake will be very much One Nation Conservatives.
The PM is very much a One Nation Conservative.
People should stop confusing One Nation with Remainer. They are not synonyms.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Sorry that is wrong. The last 5 polls on wiki frommthis weekend give 12-13-12-10-8.
You need to compare like-for-like with pollsters to eliminate house effects. Those are margin of error changes from the prior poll of each and net averages to no movement in the polls. One has the lead increasing by 1% and the other decreasing by 1%.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Comparing two graphs from completely different elections with completely different circumstances and pinning your electoral strategy on it is wishful thinking.
I haven't compared anything, thanks. Haven't looked at any graphs.
I'm just pointing out that with a month to go the tory lead seems to be in single figures.
Labour will take that quite happily right now.
Forgive me for saying so, but I do get the impression that tories are starting to get a bit jittery. I'm seeing it 'out there' and I'm seeing it on this site.
It does not appear to be in single figures.
You may want to blindside yourself to it but as Sunhil says the average is 10.75
Today has brought 2 more depressing reasons for hoping the Tories don’t succeed:-
1. Farage giving them a free run in some seats. 2. The Tories proposal to renege on what has been agreed with the Irish government about prosecuting soldiers for crimes committed during the Troubles. Bad law, bad policy, morally repulsive and shows Ireland and others that the word of the British government cannot be relied upon.
Yuck, yuck.
Meanwhile Labour’s vote share creeps up.
More yuck.
If only they could both lose.
I’m not sure the Tories are in charge of Farage’s decision.
I am more cynical than you. Cui bono? The consensus seems to be the Tories. And I’m supposed to believe the Tories had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Hmm....
Jonathon was saying the same thing earlier, and it seems like a bizarre obsession to me. What difference does it make if they did? They don't get everything that they want by the fact of him standing anywhere, since not everyone agrees on cui bono why are you certain the Tories are the ones who will, even if they did have discussions with him what difference does that make as either they swayed him to step down or he chose to, and it leads to the same outcome. So really, what's with all this 'hmm'ing where its presented as some tremendous potential reveltation if the Tories and Farage did discuss things with him? It's positive or negatives depending on what side you stand aren't affected either way, yet its presented like this would be a killer fact.
Not presenting it as some killer fact merely my opinion that the Conservative party as was has died and been replaced by Brexit/UKIP. I find that depressing because there was something to admire about the genuine Conservative party. Whereas what has replaced it is mean-minded, incoherent and seems to value nothing about what is best about Britain.
The reports of the death of the Conservative Party have been greatly exaggerated.
The new intake will be very much One Nation Conservatives.
The PM is very much a One Nation Conservative.
People should stop confusing One Nation with Remainer. They are not synonyms.
I think ascribing any over-arching ethos or belief system to Boris Johnson is epistemologically and ontologically unsound.
Johnson has only one driving philosophy:
Narcissism
Nothing else matters beside that. Anything can be bent to its desire. It's all about 'me.'
Today has brought 2 more depressing reasons for hoping the Tories don’t succeed:-
1. Farage giving them a free run in some seats. 2. The Tories proposal to renege on what has been agreed with the Irish government about prosecuting soldiers for crimes committed during the Troubles. Bad law, bad policy, morally repulsive and shows Ireland and others that the word of the British government cannot be relied upon.
Yuck, yuck.
Meanwhile Labour’s vote share creeps up.
More yuck.
If only they could both lose.
I’m not sure the Tories are in charge of Farage’s decision.
I am more cynical than you. Cui bono? The consensus seems to be the Tories. And I’m supposed to believe the Tories had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Hmm....
if the Tories and Farage did discuss things with him? It's positive or negatives depending on what side you stand aren't affected either way, yet its presented like this would be a killer fact.
Not presenting it as some killer fact merely my opinion that the Conservative party as was has died and been replaced by Brexit/UKIP. I find that depressing because there was something to admire about the genuine Conservative party. Whereas what has replaced it is mean-minded, incoherent and seems to value nothing about what is best about Britain.
The reports of the death of the Conservative Party have been greatly exaggerated.
The new intake will be very much One Nation Conservatives.
The PM is very much a One Nation Conservative.
People should stop confusing One Nation with Remainer. They are not synonyms.
What is one nation about giving an average £6,000 tax cut to those on the highest income by increasing Government borrowing according to a piece in the Boris supporting Daily Telegraph recently? I have been around politics long enough to see leading politicians for what they represent rather than what they project. BJ does not fool me! He is not One Nation and paradoxically given his completely unpredictable and reckless nature our old friend Peter Hitchens will probably denounce him at some point as not being Conservative!
Today has brought 2 more depressing reasons for hoping the Tories don’t succeed:-
1. Farage giving them a free run in some seats. 2. The Tories proposal to renege on what has been agreed with the Irish government about prosecuting soldiers for crimes committed during the Troubles. Bad law, bad policy, morally repulsive and shows Ireland and others that the word of the British government cannot be relied upon.
Yuck, yuck.
Meanwhile Labour’s vote share creeps up.
More yuck.
If only they could both lose.
I’m not sure the Tories are in charge of Farage’s decision.
I am more cynical than you. Cui bono? The consensus seems to be the Tories. And I’m supposed to believe the Tories had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Hmm....
Jonathon was saying the same thing earlier, and it seems like a bizarre obsession to me. What difference does it make if they did? They don't get everything that they want by the fact of him standing anywhere, since not everyone agrees on cui bono why are you certain the Tories are the ones who will, even if they did have discussions with him what difference does that make as either they swayed him to step down or he chose to, and it leads to the same outcome. So really, what's with all this 'hmm'ing where its presented as some tremendous potential reveltation if the Tories and Farage did discuss things with him? It's positive or negatives depending on what side you stand aren't affected either way, yet its presented like this would be a killer fact.
Not presenting it as some killer fact merely my opinion that the Conservative party as was has died and been replaced by Brexit/UKIP. I find that depressing because there was something to admire about the genuine Conservative party. Whereas what has replaced it is mean-minded, incoherent and seems to value nothing about what is best about Britain.
The reports of the death of the Conservative Party have been greatly exaggerated.
The new intake will be very much One Nation Conservatives.
The PM is very much a One Nation Conservative.
I don't think he is. I think he would throw me and mine into the fire if he could get one more point in the polls. He's in the game for him and his, and the rest of us can go hang. And I'll thank you not to project your fantasies onto such an unprepossessing canvas.
That picture of Corbyn. Which crap films are, or are not, Christmas films. The rubbish mural. Pineapple pizza. AV.
We're caught in a constant loop.
With Labour and the Tories going to trawl through facebook and twitter accounts for old scandals to mine, old issues are going to be bumped up time and again even more than usual, and I'm helpless but to respond. Lack of impulse control.
Frankly the mural one I think could so easily be dropped since Corbyn apologised and provided an explanation (whether one accepts it or not), so it really should have no legs left as a political issue, but for some reason people love to carry on the fight he decided not to have. I'm not sure who that is supposed to benefit. It's not him, because he conceded that one years ago!
Corbyn agreed it was anti semitic - some of his candidate mp's and posters on here seem not to have got the message.
1) Corbyn agreeing that, whether for pragmatic reasons, or not, doesn't make or prove it anti-semitic. 2) Since you're likely to be including me when referring to 'posters on here', I have to repeat, my point is that the mural is not *obviously* anti-semitic. 3) Since you appear to think it is, it would be interesting to know what exactly about it is anti-semitic about it and apparent?
I think that mural is anti Semitic because “the few” deciding the fate of the many clearly painted with the characteristics of Jewish people.
It's debatable. It is indisputably bad art though. The artist has pulled together a bunch of stereotypes in an incoherent way. The semite theme is just one of these, and is offensive, but more because of its brainlessness than its racism.
Its antisemitism is a by-product of its muddled ineptitude.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Comparing two graphs from completely different elections with completely different circumstances and pinning your electoral strategy on it is wishful thinking.
I haven't compared anything, thanks. Haven't looked at any graphs.
I'm just pointing out that with a month to go the tory lead seems to be in single figures.
Labour will take that quite happily right now.
Forgive me for saying so, but I do get the impression that tories are starting to get a bit jittery. I'm seeing it 'out there' and I'm seeing it on this site.
It does not appear to be in single figures.
You may want to blindside yourself to it but as Sunhil says the average is 10.75
Do not fall into fake news
There's no such thing as average polling
The last two polls have the tory lead at +7 and +8
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Sorry that is wrong. The last 5 polls on wiki frommthis weekend give 12-13-12-10-8.
Today has brought 2 more depressing reasons for hoping the Tories don’t succeed:-
1. Farage giving them a free run in some seats. 2. The Tories proposal to renege on what has been agreed with the Irish government about prosecuting soldiers for crimes committed during the Troubles. Bad law, bad policy, morally repulsive and shows Ireland and others that the word of the British government cannot be relied upon.
Yuck, yuck.
Meanwhile Labour’s vote share creeps up.
More yuck.
If only they could both lose.
I’m not sure the Tories are in charge of Farage’s decision.
I am more cynical than you. Cui bono? The consensus seems to be the Tories. And I’m supposed to believe the Tories had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Hmm....
Not presenting it as some killer fact merely my opinion that the Conservative party as was has died and been replaced by Brexit/UKIP. I find that depressing because there was something to admire about the genuine Conservative party. Whereas what has replaced it is mean-minded, incoherent and seems to value nothing about what is best about Britain.
The reports of the death of the Conservative Party have been greatly exaggerated.
The new intake will be very much One Nation Conservatives.
As tonight’s selection of Flick Drummond goes to show. The third moderate former MP to be chosen in a safe seat.
With the greatest respect they are being chosen to follow a leadership and policies which are profoundly unconservative and damaging. And if they don’t they will be turfed out as real One Nation Conservatives such as Rory Stewart, David Gauke and Ken Clarke have been.
So fool yourself that they’re “moderate” (just like all those “moderate” Labour MPs in Corbyn’s Labour) but from the outside it looks like UKIP/TheBrexit Party have done a successful reverse takeover of the Tories, aided and abetted by people who will say any old rubbish just so they can get to put “MP” after their name.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Comparing two graphs from completely different elections with completely different circumstances and pinning your electoral strategy on it is wishful thinking.
I haven't compared anything, thanks. Haven't looked at any graphs.
I'm just pointing out that with a month to go the tory lead seems to be in single figures.
Labour will take that quite happily right now.
Forgive me for saying so, but I do get the impression that tories are starting to get a bit jittery. I'm seeing it 'out there' and I'm seeing it on this site.
It does not appear to be in single figures.
You may want to blindside yourself to it but as Sunhil says the average is 10.75
Do not fall into fake news
There's no such thing as average polling
The last two polls have the tory lead at +7 and +8
Bleat away my tory sheep, but it's the facts
What's so special about those two polls? One is even a week old!
Today has brought 2 more depressing reasons for hoping the Tories don’t succeed:-
1. Farage giving them a free run in some seats. 2. The Tories proposal to renege on what has been agreed with the Irish government about prosecuting soldiers for crimes committed during the Troubles. Bad law, bad policy, morally repulsive and shows Ireland and others that the word of the British government cannot be relied upon.
Yuck, yuck.
Meanwhile Labour’s vote share creeps up.
More yuck.
If only they could both lose.
I’m not sure the Tories are in charge of Farage’s decision.
I am more cynical than you. Cui bono? The consensus seems to be the Tories. And I’m supposed to believe the Tories had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Hmm....
Jonathon was saying the same thing earlier, and it seems like a bizarre obsession to me. What difference does it make if they did? They don't get everything that they want by the fact of him standing anywhere, since not everyone agrees on cui bono why are you certain the Tories are the ones who will, even if they did have discussions with him what difference does that make as either they swayed him to step down or he chose to, and it leads to the same outcome. So really, what's with all this 'hmm'ing where its presented as some tremendous potential reveltation if the Tories and Farage did discuss things with him? It's positive or negatives depending on what side you stand aren't affected either way, yet its presented like this would be a killer fact.
Not presenting it as some killer fact merely my opinion that the Conservative party as was has died and been replaced by Brexit/UKIP. I find that depressing because there was something to admire about the genuine Conservative party. Whereas what has replaced it is mean-minded, incoherent and seems to value nothing about what is best about Britain.
The reports of the death of the Conservative Party have been greatly exaggerated.
The new intake will be very much One Nation Conservatives.
As tonight’s selection of Flick Drummond goes to show. The third moderate former MP to be chosen in a safe seat.
Laura Trott in Sevenoaks (even though it was the most Leave constituency in Kent, if I recall correctly).
Very disappointed to learn that someone called Flick Drummond is not an Aussie soap character.
Also disappointed to learn that Laura Trott is the other Laura Trott and not the Laura Trott I was thinking of.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Sorry that is wrong. The last 5 polls on wiki frommthis weekend give 12-13-12-10-8.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Sorry that is wrong. The last 5 polls on wiki frommthis weekend give 12-13-12-10-8.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Comparing two graphs from completely different elections with completely different circumstances and pinning your electoral strategy on it is wishful thinking.
I haven't compared anything, thanks. Haven't looked at any graphs.
I'm just pointing out that with a month to go the tory lead seems to be in single figures.
Labour will take that quite happily right now.
Forgive me for saying so, but I do get the impression that tories are starting to get a bit jittery. I'm seeing it 'out there' and I'm seeing it on this site.
It does not appear to be in single figures.
You may want to blindside yourself to it but as Sunhil says the average is 10.75
Do not fall into fake news
There's no such thing as average polling
The last two polls have the tory lead at +7 and +8
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Sorry that is wrong. The last 5 polls on wiki frommthis weekend give 12-13-12-10-8.
Hypothetical here. For arguments sake, the Tories fall short again. Is there any circumstance where anyone could see either the SNP or the Dims propping up a Tory government? Or would that be impossible to conceive?
The LDs at least claim they will not prop up any kind of government, and while I feel something would have to give in the event they were true kingmakers, their hope of replacing Labour would I think take a hit propping up the Tories again, and what price could be extracted to make it worthwhile?
Today has brought 2 more depressing reasons for hoping the Tories don’t succeed:-
1. Farage giving them a free run in some seats. 2. The Tories proposal to renege on what has been agreed with the Irish government about prosecuting soldiers for crimes committed during the Troubles. Bad law, bad policy, morally repulsive and shows Ireland and others that the word of the British government cannot be relied upon.
Yuck, yuck.
Meanwhile Labour’s vote share creeps up.
More yuck.
If only they could both lose.
I’m not sure the Tories are in charge of Farage’s decision.
Indeed. It does likely help them more than it hurts by turning off tory remainers and encouraging remain alliances (that would probably happen anyway), but his very existence at this point is a needless worry for them, so while his decision has aided them, it's not like it is a complete pact.
I wonder if Swinson could be bought. I think there's a bit of Tory in there somewhere (excuse the pun), Brexit aside. Maybe the offer of a referendum on PR or such like?
Other than the fact some Tories have defected to her party, what is Tory about Jo Swinson?
Some consider her economically conservative, and her positions on welfare and state-ownership are fairly 'conservative', as is her voting record.
I’m not seeing anything but traditional soft Left Lib Dem views in both her policy and her voting record.
Voted for: privatising Royal Mail + Forestry Commission, fracking, legal aid restriction, fare rises, academy schools, corporation tax reduction, bedroom tax, council tax support reduction. Against: investment in renewables, gambling regs, mansion tax, bankers bonus tax, increase in higher tax rate, inflation increases in welfare, higher disability benefits, non-tied leases for pub landlords.
Cherry-picked slightly, + she was in Coalition Gov, but still she has one of the poorest LibDem voting records on CO emissions. Perhaps this record is a match for 'soft Left Lib Dem' but her envir and welfare views don't appear to be.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Comparing two graphs from completely different elections with completely different circumstances and pinning your electoral strategy on it is wishful thinking.
I haven't compared anything, thanks. Haven't looked at any graphs.
I'm just pointing out that with a month to go the tory lead seems to be in single figures.
Labour will take that quite happily right now.
Forgive me for saying so, but I do get the impression that tories are starting to get a bit jittery. I'm seeing it 'out there' and I'm seeing it on this site.
Tories aren't starting to get a bit jittery.
Tories have been jittery since 22:00 on 08/06/17 [DavidL and others got jittery before then] and will be jittery until 22:00 on 12/12/19 whatever the polls say.
This is very true. When you're in a winning position it could all go tits up. BUT, that's a million times better than being 10 points behind and relying on a repeat of a pretty unique set of circumstances in the previous election campaign. I would gladly take a Tory majority of one if it stopped that bastard Corbyn and his demented acolytes getting their hands within a million miles of the levers of power.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Comparing two graphs from completely different elections with completely different circumstances and pinning your electoral strategy on it is wishful thinking.
I haven't compared anything, thanks. Haven't looked at any graphs.
I'm just pointing out that with a month to go the tory lead seems to be in single figures.
Labour will take that quite happily right now.
Forgive me for saying so, but I do get the impression that tories are starting to get a bit jittery. I'm seeing it 'out there' and I'm seeing it on this site.
Are there some polls I don't know about ?
Yes
Since when has Wikipedia become the go-to?! @BritainElects is much quicker out the trap.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Comparing two graphs from completely different elections with completely different circumstances and pinning your electoral strategy on it is wishful thinking.
I haven't compared anything, thanks. Haven't looked at any graphs.
I'm just pointing out that with a month to go the tory lead seems to be in single figures.
Labour will take that quite happily right now.
Forgive me for saying so, but I do get the impression that tories are starting to get a bit jittery. I'm seeing it 'out there' and I'm seeing it on this site.
Are there some polls I don't know about ?
Yes
Since when has Wikipedia become the go-to?! @BritainElects is much quicker out the trap.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Single figures?
ELBOW week-ending 3rd November = 11.25% lead ELBOW week-ending 10th November = 10.75% lead
The trend is always the friend.
Except on those occasions where total wipeout moves to near total wipe out within a margin of error of total wipe out and pretty near total wipe out.
I have given you all the best out of bubble honesty I can today, I need to go and recharge some more.
It isn't clearly anti-semitic. If you think it is, can you explain?
I never get tired of this classic. Even some otherwise very sensible people use it. Butpeople claiming it wasn't clearly anti-semitic should ask this chap about that:
Jeremy Corbyn has expressed "sincere regret" at failing to look more closely at an allegedly anti-Semitic mural in London before questioning its removal...
In a statement, Mr Corbyn said he had intended to make a "general comment" about the removal of public art on the grounds of freedom of speech.
He added: "I sincerely regret that I did not look more closely at the image I was commenting on, the contents of which are deeply disturbing and anti-Semitic.
Now, not everything Mr Corbyn says is true. But unless he was lying because he is weak, he at least thinks it was clearly anti-semitic since it was only because of poor attention that he did not spot that immediately. I think it highly unlikely he would defend himself on the grounds of poor attention being given if it was credible to use another defence.
I don't expect Corbyn was lying; perhaps misconceived, which is very different. I never get tired of this classic 'the mural was anti-semitic' with still no explanation as to why. (Corbyn's view of it being anti-semitic is not an explanation why). I'm happy to be illuminated otherwise if I'm misconceived and missed something?
See posts downthread at 9.31 and 9.58 for explanation.
Today has brought 2 more depressing reasons for hoping the Tories don’t succeed:-
1. Farage giving them a free run in some seats. 2. The Tories proposal to renege on what has been agreed with the Irish government about prosecuting soldiers for crimes committed during the Troubles. Bad law, bad policy, morally repulsive and shows Ireland and others that the word of the British government cannot be relied upon.
Yuck, yuck.
Meanwhile Labour’s vote share creeps up.
More yuck.
If only they could both lose.
I’m not sure the Tories are in charge of Farage’s decision.
I am more cynical than you. Cui bono? The consensus seems to be the Tories. And I’m supposed to believe the Tories had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Hmm....
Jonathon was saying the same thing earlier, and it seems like a bizarre obsession to me. What difference does it make if they did? They don't get everything that they want by the fact of him standing anywhere, since not everyone agrees on cui bono why are you certain the Tories are the ones who will, even if they did have discussions with him what difference does that make as either they swayed him to step down or he chose to, and it leads to the same outcome. So really, what's with all this 'hmm'ing where its presented as some tremendous potential reveltation if the Tories and Farage did discuss things with him? It's positive or negatives depending on what side you stand aren't affected either way, yet its presented like this would be a killer fact.
Not presenting it as some killer fact merely my opinion that the Conservative party as was has died and been replaced by Brexit/UKIP. I find that depressing because there was something to admire about the genuine Conservative party. Whereas what has replaced it is mean-minded, incoherent and seems to value nothing about what is best about Britain.
The reports of the death of the Conservative Party have been greatly exaggerated.
The new intake will be very much One Nation Conservatives.
The PM is very much a One Nation Conservative...
On the grounds that his policies will encourage the other three home nations to seek independence ?
Nothing new in that story. When I worked at CCHQ I heard a story about a large donation or benefit in kind assisting an individual in getting the tory candidature in a seat. I thought it was disgusting and somebody very senior warned me off ever making the information public!
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Sorry that is wrong. The last 5 polls on wiki frommthis weekend give 12-13-12-10-8.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Sorry that is wrong. The last 5 polls on wiki frommthis weekend give 12-13-12-10-8.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Sorry that is wrong. The last 5 polls on wiki frommthis weekend give 12-13-12-10-8.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Comparing two graphs from completely different elections with completely different circumstances and pinning your electoral strategy on it is wishful thinking.
I haven't compared anything, thanks. Haven't looked at any graphs.
I'm just pointing out that with a month to go the tory lead seems to be in single figures.
Labour will take that quite happily right now.
Forgive me for saying so, but I do get the impression that tories are starting to get a bit jittery. I'm seeing it 'out there' and I'm seeing it on this site.
Are there some polls I don't know about ?
Yes
Since when has Wikipedia become the go-to?! @BritainElects is much quicker out the trap.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Comparing two graphs from completely different elections with completely different circumstances and pinning your electoral strategy on it is wishful thinking.
I haven't compared anything, thanks. Haven't looked at any graphs.
I'm just pointing out that with a month to go the tory lead seems to be in single figures.
Labour will take that quite happily right now.
Forgive me for saying so, but I do get the impression that tories are starting to get a bit jittery. I'm seeing it 'out there' and I'm seeing it on this site.
Are there some polls I don't know about ?
Yes
Since when has Wikipedia become the go-to?! @BritainElects is much quicker out the trap.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Comparing two graphs from completely different elections with completely different circumstances and pinning your electoral strategy on it is wishful thinking.
I haven't compared anything, thanks. Haven't looked at any graphs.
I'm just pointing out that with a month to go the tory lead seems to be in single figures.
Labour will take that quite happily right now.
Forgive me for saying so, but I do get the impression that tories are starting to get a bit jittery. I'm seeing it 'out there' and I'm seeing it on this site.
Are there some polls I don't know about ?
Yes
Since when has Wikipedia become the go-to?! @BritainElects is much quicker out the trap.
Today has brought 2 more depressing reasons for hoping the Tories don’t succeed:-
1. Farage giving them a free run in some seats. 2. The Tories proposal to renege on what has been agreed with the Irish government about prosecuting soldiers for crimes committed during the Troubles. Bad law, bad policy, morally repulsive and shows Ireland and others that the word of the British government cannot be relied upon.
Yuck, yuck.
Meanwhile Labour’s vote share creeps up.
More yuck.
If only they could both lose.
I’m not sure the Tories are in charge of Farage’s decision.
I am more cynical than you. Cui bono? The consensus seems to be the Tories. And I’m supposed to believe the Tories had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Hmm....
Jonathon was saying the same thing earlier, and it seems like a bizarre obsession to me. What difference does it make if they did? They don't get everything that they want by the fact of him standing anywhere, since not everyone agrees on cui bono why are you certain the Tories are the ones who will, even if they did have discussions with him what difference does that make as either they swayed him to step down or he chose to, and it leads to the same outcome. So really, what's with all this 'hmm'ing where its presented as some tremendous potential reveltation if the Tories and Farage did discuss things with him? It's positive or negatives depending on what side you stand aren't affected either way, yet its presented like this would be a killer fact.
Not presenting it as some killer fact merely my opinion that the Conservative party as was has died and been replaced by Brexit/UKIP. I find that depressing because there was something to admire about the genuine Conservative party. Whereas what has replaced it is mean-minded, incoherent and seems to value nothing about what is best about Britain.
The reports of the death of the Conservative Party have been greatly exaggerated.
The new intake will be very much One Nation Conservatives.
As tonight’s selection of Flick Drummond goes to show. The third moderate former MP to be chosen in a safe seat.
Laura Trott in Sevenoaks (even though it was the most Leave constituency in Kent, if I recall correctly).
Gravesham was 65% Leave and was the most Leave constituency in Kent, Sevenoaks was 54% Leave
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Sorry that is wrong. The last 5 polls on wiki frommthis weekend give 12-13-12-10-8.
Today has brought 2 more depressing reasons for hoping the Tories don’t succeed:-
1. Farage giving them a free run in some seats. 2. The Tories proposal to renege on what has been agreed with the Irish government about prosecuting soldiers for crimes committed during the Troubles. Bad law, bad policy, morally repulsive and shows Ireland and others that the word of the British government cannot be relied upon.
Yuck, yuck.
Meanwhile Labour’s vote share creeps up.
More yuck.
If only they could both lose.
I’m not sure the Tories are in charge of Farage’s decision.
I am more cynical than you. Cui bono? The consensus seems to be the Tories. And I’m supposed to believe the Tories had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Hmm....
Jonathon was
Not presenting it as some killer fact merely my opinion that the Conservative party as was has died and been replaced by Brexit/UKIP. I find that depressing because there was something to admire about the genuine Conservative party. Whereas what has replaced it is mean-minded, incoherent and seems to value nothing about what is best about Britain.
The reports of the death of the Conservative Party have been greatly exaggerated.
The new intake will be very much One Nation Conservatives.
The PM is very much a One Nation Conservative.
People should stop confusing One Nation with Remainer. They are not synonyms.
Yes, very much so. Similarly, there is often a lazy belief that dry as dust economically = socially conservative = Eurosceptic. And sometimes it does. But often it doesn't. Calling anyone Eurosceptic right-wing is confusing and unhelpful. There are members of all parties who fall into one of these categories.
Yes put me in that category. Bone dry economically, a real hater of debt, fairly socially conservative, and Europhile. There is no party where I neatly fit.
Today has brought 2 more depressing reasons for hoping the Tories don’t succeed:-
1. Farage giving them a free run in some seats. 2. The Tories proposal to renege on what has been agreed with the Irish government about prosecuting soldiers for crimes committed during the Troubles. Bad law, bad policy, morally repulsive and shows Ireland and others that the word of the British government cannot be relied upon.
Yuck, yuck.
Meanwhile Labour’s vote share creeps up.
More yuck.
If only they could both lose.
I’m not sure the Tories are in charge of Farage’s decision.
I am more cynical than you. Cui bono? The consensus seems to be the Tories. And I’m supposed to believe the Tories had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Hmm....
Not presenting it as some killer fact merely my opinion that the Conservative party as was has died and been replaced by Brexit/UKIP. I find that depressing because there was something to admire about the genuine Conservative party. Whereas what has replaced it is mean-minded, incoherent and seems to value nothing about what is best about Britain.
The reports of the death of the Conservative Party have been greatly exaggerated.
The new intake will be very much One Nation Conservatives.
As tonight’s selection of Flick Drummond goes to show. The third moderate former MP to be chosen in a safe seat.
With the greatest respect they are being chosen to follow a leadership and policies which are profoundly unconservative and damaging. And if they don’t they will be turfed out as real One Nation Conservatives such as Rory Stewart, David Gauke and Ken Clarke have been.
So fool yourself that they’re “moderate” (just like all those “moderate” Labour MPs in Corbyn’s Labour) but from the outside it looks like UKIP/TheBrexit Party have done a successful reverse takeover of the Tories, aided and abetted by people who will say any old rubbish just so they can get to put “MP” after their name.
I think the most depressing thing for me was the blind conversion of all candidates to a leave even without a deal mantra. No nuance, no thought as to the effect but just parroting the lines they felt they needed to to appease the audience / head office. There was certainly no understanding of the exit process and the transition.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Sorry that is wrong. The last 5 polls on wiki frommthis weekend give 12-13-12-10-8.
It isn't clearly anti-semitic. If you think it is, can you explain?
I never get tired of this classic. Even some otherwise very sensible people use it. Butpeople claiming it wasn't clearly anti-semitic should ask this chap about that:
Jeremy Corbyn has expressed "sincere regret" at failing to look more closely at an allegedly anti-Semitic mural in London before questioning its removal...
In a statement, Mr Corbyn said he had intended to make a "general comment" about the removal of public art on the grounds of freedom of speech.
He added: "I sincerely regret that I did not look more closely at the image I was commenting on, the contents of which are deeply disturbing and anti-Semitic.
Now, not everything Mr Corbyn says is true. But unless he was lying because he is weak, he at least thinks it was clearly anti-semitic since it was only because of poor attention that he did not spot that immediately. I think it highly unlikely he would defend himself on the grounds of poor attention being given if it was credible to use another defence.
I don't expect Corbyn was lying; perhaps misconceived, which is very different. I never get tired of this classic 'the mural was anti-semitic' with still no explanation as to why. (Corbyn's view of it being anti-semitic is not an explanation why). I'm happy to be illuminated otherwise if I'm misconceived and missed something?
It walks, talks and squawks very like a duck. You seem curiously over-invested in the point that nobody has conclusively shown its anatid affinities at the DNA level. I think most of us are happy to go with our overall impression, and move on to wondering why this is so important to you.
Today has brought 2 more depressing reasons for hoping the Tories don’t succeed:-
1. Farage giving them a free run in some seats. 2. The Tories proposal to renege on what has been agreed with the Irish government about prosecuting soldiers for crimes committed during the Troubles. Bad law, bad policy, morally repulsive and shows Ireland and others that the word of the British government cannot be relied upon.
Yuck, yuck.
Meanwhile Labour’s vote share creeps up.
More yuck.
If only they could both lose.
I’m not sure the Tories are in charge of Farage’s decision.
I am more cynical than you. Cui bono? The consensus seems to be the Tories. And I’m supposed to believe the Tories had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Hmm....
Jonathon was
Not presenting it as some killer fact merely my opinion that the Conservative party as was has died and been replaced by Brexit/UKIP. I find that depressing because there was something to admire about the genuine Conservative party. Whereas what has replaced it is mean-minded, incoherent and seems to value nothing about what is best about Britain.
The reports of the death of the Conservative Party have been greatly exaggerated.
The new intake will be very much One Nation Conservatives.
The PM is very much a One Nation Conservative.
People should stop confusing One Nation with Remainer. They are not synonyms.
Yes, very much so. Similarly, there is often a lazy belief that dry as dust economically = socially conservative = Eurosceptic. And sometimes it does. But often it doesn't. Calling anyone Eurosceptic right-wing is confusing and unhelpful. There are members of all parties who fall into one of these categories.
Yes put me in that category. Bone dry economically, a real hater of debt, fairly socially conservative, and Europhile. There is no party where I neatly fit.
But every financial asset is someone else's debt. It's how the system works.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Sorry that is wrong. The last 5 polls on wiki frommthis weekend give 12-13-12-10-8.
No, I think this one was a special poll for a remain alliance group.
Rather than electoral pacts, why not have a system of voting where people can express approval for several parties on the ballot, placing them in order of preference. If only someone could come up with such a system!
Today has brought 2 more depressing reasons for hoping the Tories don’t succeed:-
1. Farage giving them a free run in some seats. 2. The Tories proposal to renege on what has been agreed with the Irish government about prosecuting soldiers for crimes committed during the Troubles. Bad law, bad policy, morally repulsive and shows Ireland and others that the word of the British government cannot be relied upon.
Yuck, yuck.
Meanwhile Labour’s vote share creeps up.
More yuck.
If only they could both lose.
I’m not sure the Tories are in charge of Farage’s decision.
I am more cynical than you. Cui bono? The consensus seems to be the Tories. And I’m supposed to believe the Tories had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Hmm....
Jonathon was
Not presenting it as some killer fact merely my opinion that the Conservative party as was has died and been replaced by Brexit/UKIP. I find that depressing because there was something to admire about the genuine Conservative party. Whereas what has replaced it is mean-minded, incoherent and seems to value nothing about what is best about Britain.
The reports of the death of the Conservative Party have been greatly exaggerated.
The new intake will be very much One Nation Conservatives.
The PM is very much a One Nation Conservative.
People should stop confusing One Nation with Remainer. They are not synonyms.
Yes, very much so. Similarly, there is often a lazy belief that dry as dust economically = socially conservative = Eurosceptic. And sometimes it does. But often it doesn't. Calling anyone Eurosceptic right-wing is confusing and unhelpful. There are members of all parties who fall into one of these categories.
Yes put me in that category. Bone dry economically, a real hater of debt, fairly socially conservative, and Europhile. There is no party where I neatly fit.
Today has brought 2 more depressing reasons for hoping the Tories don’t succeed:-
1. Farage giving them a free run in some seats. 2. The Tories proposal to renege on what has been agreed with the Irish government about prosecuting soldiers for crimes committed during the Troubles. Bad law, bad policy, morally repulsive and shows Ireland and others that the word of the British government cannot be relied upon.
Yuck, yuck.
Meanwhile Labour’s vote share creeps up.
More yuck.
If only they could both lose.
I’m not sure the Tories are in charge of Farage’s decision.
I am more cynical than you. Cui bono? The consensus seems to be the Tories. And I’m supposed to believe the Tories had absolutely nothing to do with it at all. Hmm....
Jonathon was
Not presenting it as some killer fact merely my opinion that the Conservative party as was has died and been replaced by Brexit/UKIP. I find that depressing because there was something to admire about the genuine Conservative party. Whereas what has replaced it is mean-minded, incoherent and seems to value nothing about what is best about Britain.
The reports of the death of the Conservative Party have been greatly exaggerated.
The new intake will be very much One Nation Conservatives.
The PM is very much a One Nation Conservative.
People should stop confusing One Nation with Remainer. They are not synonyms.
Yes, very much so. Similarly, there is often a lazy belief that dry as dust economically = socially conservative = Eurosceptic. And sometimes it does. But often it doesn't. Calling anyone Eurosceptic right-wing is confusing and unhelpful. There are members of all parties who fall into one of these categories.
Yes put me in that category. Bone dry economically, a real hater of debt, fairly socially conservative, and Europhile. There is no party where I neatly fit.
Bone dry economically, real hater of debt, very socially liberal, formerly-Europhile but now Eurosceptic.
It isn't clearly anti-semitic. If you think it is, can you explain?
I never get tired of this classic. Even some otherwise very sensible people use it. Butpeople claiming it wasn't clearly anti-semitic should ask this chap about that:
Jeremy Corbyn has expressed "sincere regret" at failing to look more closely at an allegedly anti-Semitic mural in London before questioning its removal...
In a statement, Mr Corbyn said he had intended to make a "general comment" about the removal of public art on the grounds of freedom of speech.
He added: "I sincerely regret that I did not look more closely at the image I was commenting on, the contents of which are deeply disturbing and anti-Semitic.
Now, not everything Mr Corbyn says is true. But unless he was lying because he is weak, he at least thinks it was clearly anti-semitic since it was only because of poor attention that he did not spot that immediately. I think it highly unlikely he would defend himself on the grounds of poor attention being given if it was credible to use another defence.
I don't expect Corbyn was lying; perhaps misconceived, which is very different. I never get tired of this classic 'the mural was anti-semitic' with still no explanation as to why. (Corbyn's view of it being anti-semitic is not an explanation why). I'm happy to be illuminated otherwise if I'm misconceived and missed something?
I don't see the point when as a political issue it is dead. Why are you so concerned about it? It cannot even be used to attack Corbyn anymore as he's nullied it.
I too remain concerned that at some point there will be a polling panic as Labour starts to rise in the polls. Probably for no particular reason....
However, the level of hostility towards Corbyn and his band of mad-hatter, unsavoury Marxists is now profound, widespread and deeply felt across much of the country, even amongst Labour voters. I really struggle to see what is going to change that in 4 weeks. People have had three YEARS to reach their conclusions. Corbyn is no longer a blank canvass. I cant see what is going to change.
But happy to hear suggestions....
Labour are entering a phase where wishful thinking is starting to replace reality.
Hardly. The tory lead seems now to be in single figures. They will take that at this stage.
Comparing two graphs from completely different elections with completely different circumstances and pinning your electoral strategy on it is wishful thinking.
I haven't compared anything, thanks. Haven't looked at any graphs.
I'm just pointing out that with a month to go the tory lead seems to be in single figures.
Labour will take that quite happily right now.
Forgive me for saying so, but I do get the impression that tories are starting to get a bit jittery. I'm seeing it 'out there' and I'm seeing it on this site.
Are there some polls I don't know about ?
Yes
Since when has Wikipedia become the go-to?! @BritainElects is much quicker out the trap.
Comments
https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1194008205157904391
https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1194008999135498240
But hang on! Is the real talking point here what Boris said in his video?
He ruled out extending the transition period for Brexit beyond 2020. But it’s not that because nobody believes he will stick to this deadline, impractical with the amount of work still needed to be done, hence Boris in the video talking up his genius as negotiator how quickly he got the new brexit deal, which is a lie, he put Mays deal in a saucepan, heated it up, and threw in a bit of surrender on northern island May refused to do. So many factors out of Boris control to trust such a promise.
But in his video Boris said Britain would aim for a free trade agreement ‘on the model of a super Canada-plus arrangement’. Wow. That is remarkably specific in the middle of an election campaign, RIPPING UP THE CURRENT POLITICAL DECLARATION to get Farage to back you. A very clear statement of intent for anyone hoping for a softer brexit in the end, remainers, even brexiteers who wanted softer brexit than that, wondering today to stick with Conservatives in the GE because they could get a softer brexit in the end. Doesn’t look like that’s an option for you now, does it?
Move another 15 seats from Tory to Libdem imo
ELBOW week-ending 3rd November = 11.25% lead
ELBOW week-ending 10th November = 10.75% lead
If you (or Corbyn for that matter) believe it is anti-semitic, and I believe it isn't, there's not necessarily a lie there. Either view can be wrong without lying.
https://greenreading.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/gordon-brown-gun404_691842c.jpg
People should stop confusing One Nation with Remainer. They are not synonyms.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/morrisons-supermarkets-across-scotland-could-be-hit-by-food-shortages-in-the-run-up-to-christmas-1-5043101
You are in danger of becoming a bit over excited
I'm just pointing out that with a month to go the tory lead seems to be in single figures.
Labour will take that quite happily right now.
Forgive me for saying so, but I do get the impression that tories are starting to get a bit jittery. I'm seeing it 'out there' and I'm seeing it on this site.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1J8NBSoUgk
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1193986028727668737?s=20
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1193936113242648577?s=20
I never get tired of this classic 'the mural was anti-semitic' with still no explanation as to why. (Corbyn's view of it being anti-semitic is not an explanation why). I'm happy to be illuminated otherwise if I'm misconceived and missed something?
Tories have been jittery since 22:00 on 08/06/17 [DavidL and others got jittery before then] and will be jittery until 22:00 on 12/12/19 whatever the polls say.
I won't relax until Dimbleby says 'and the exit poll says CON overall majority' (or maybe not
My plan is to place 3 more lays of the same size weekly in the lead up to the election.
I suspect 1.67 may be the lowest priced lay of the 4 but we will see.
According to wiki the last four poll leads were 12%, 13%, 12% and 10%:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_United_Kingdom_general_election
Are there some polls I don't know about ?
Oops, I should have put a trigger warning.
Apart from that your spot on Ave it.
You may want to blindside yourself to it but as Sunhil says the average is 10.75
Do not fall into fake news
Johnson has only one driving philosophy:
Narcissism
Nothing else matters beside that. Anything can be bent to its desire. It's all about 'me.'
Its antisemitism is a by-product of its muddled ineptitude.
The last two polls have the tory lead at +7 and +8
Bleat away my tory sheep, but it's the facts
So fool yourself that they’re “moderate” (just like all those “moderate” Labour MPs in Corbyn’s Labour) but from the outside it looks like UKIP/TheBrexit Party have done a successful reverse takeover of the Tories, aided and abetted by people who will say any old rubbish just so they can get to put “MP” after their name.
Also disappointed to learn that Laura Trott is the other Laura Trott and not the Laura Trott I was thinking of.
Two Laura Trotts
There's only two Laura Trotts.......
I'd take that thank you.
Cherry-picked slightly, + she was in Coalition Gov, but still she has one of the poorest LibDem voting records on CO emissions. Perhaps this record is a match for 'soft Left Lib Dem' but her envir and welfare views don't appear to be.
Since when has Wikipedia become the go-to?! @BritainElects is much quicker out the trap.
The last two polls to be published are:
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1193936113242648577?s=20
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1193256433585922048?s=20
Except on those occasions where total wipeout moves to near total wipe out within a margin of error of total wipe out and pretty near total wipe out.
I have given you all the best out of bubble honesty I can today, I need to go and recharge some more.
You might have a point there.
Ave it research - taken somewhere on my keyboard
LAB 99%
CON 0%
OTH 1%
There you go Corbynistas make the most of it!
Or at least a ha-ha.....
https://www.comresglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/ComRes_Sunday-Express_Opinion-Poll_Nov19_Tables.pdf
Favourite so far is
Any predictions for Theresas post-election purge?
I can't recall a campaign (other than brexit) where so many on an incumbent PM's own side have made enemies of themselves.
Timothy and Hill will have drawn up their hitlist.
The executions will commence at dawn.
LD 4/9
Labour 13/8
Labour nearing value.