One of the defining themes of this week has been the government threatening to do something dramatic, before manifestly not carrying out that threat. We’ve had No. 10 sources claiming Boris Johnson would pull his Withdrawal Agreement Bill if MPs voted down the programme motion, only for the Prime Minister to announce he is ‘pausing’ it, before then making a bid to the Labour Party to resurrect the legislation with a longer timetable.
We’ve also seen the demise of Johnson’s claim that he would rather be found ‘dead in a ditch’ than delay Brexit beyond 31 October. Though the Prime Minister hasn’t openly acknowledged that he’s missing the deadline, his 12 December election bid was an attempt to move the conversation straight past an awkward admission.
we are rapidly entering the territory of a government crying wolf while trying to look in control.
The Tories bear a high share of responsibility for the present impasse which owes a lot to their decision to choose such a compulsive liar as their leader. Few trust him.
As opposed to Labour who have chosen the most untrustworthy and unpopular leader of the opposition since the War
Regardless of his lack of popularity, Corbyn is not viewed as a compulsive liar - not even by his opponents.
No, he's viewed as a racist supporter of terrorists and terrorism by his opponents.
The EU should go for a long extension, to April 2023 or some such.
I thought that they would go for an extension to the end of the original transition period. But I was wrong. I don't think there's been any talk, informally from EU sources, of an extension longer than January 31st since Johnson requested the extension.
They've agreed two different deals with us. They don't understand why we're incapable of getting on with it (or decisively changing our minds not to do it). They want it over.
They certainly do not want another UK government turning up in Brussels trying to start another renegotiation of the Withdrawal Agreement. This is something that a long extension would invite.
The EU should go for a long extension, to April 2023 or some such.
I thought that they would go for an extension to the end of the original transition period. But I was wrong. I don't think there's been any talk, informally from EU sources, of an extension longer than January 31st since Johnson requested the extension.
They've agreed two different deals with us. They don't understand why we're incapable of getting on with it (or decisively changing our minds not to do it). They want it over.
They certainly do not want another UK government turning up in Brussels trying to start another renegotiation of the Withdrawal Agreement. This is something that a long extension would invite.
31st January isn't Johnson's extension. It's a shite Benn Act compromise because anything longer wouldn't have got HoC support, but it kills the chance of a second referendum so there's still a big chunk of MPs who feel frustrated. But by their own actions. Pillocks.
MarqueeMark said: " 31st January isn't Johnson's extension. It's a shite Benn Act compromise because anything longer wouldn't have got HoC support, but it kills the chance of a second referendum so there's still a big chunk of MPs who feel frustrated. But by their own actions. Pillocks."
Government are on the back foot and I wonder whether this may end up in a deal with opposition parties for a GE + confirmatory referendum (or vice versa).
Don't think he's quite thought through his own acquiescence in 'sexual harassment and assault allegations that have been deliberately sat upon by people on power'.
Not that stupid if he still has Parliamentary privilege for his accusations.
Might be a few MPs not seeking re-election?
I thought that only applied to to speaking in parliament? 'Letters' sounds pretty solidly defamatory unless very well founded (his own arse-sitting on these allegations notwithstanding).
It looks as if Macron is digging in. No extension without a purpose.
Boris wants the deal passed unamended and/or a GE. Clear and concise
However, I understand that the EU have taken to Boris as someone they can do business with and in particular a friendship has grown between Boris and Macron
The EU are becoming increasingly frustrated with Corbyn and in the end I expect they will confirm a short extension to mid November to pass the deal or the option to the 31st January to hold a GE.
They will not let this 'game playing' continue, they have very big problems themselves and I believe they are now ready to cut us adrift and move on
I also genuinely believe labour are causing immense damage to their brand and should the SNP and Lib Dems move to back a GE with the proviso that if it does not get the 434 needed they will support a one line motion for the GE and without delaying amendments
The winners in that scenario are the SNP, Lib Dems and Boris with labour holed below the waterline
Of course it may not happen but if the SNP and Lib Dems take this opportunity they should benefit with considerable increased support
I really wish French officials would stop talking nonsense .
Are we really supposed to believe Macron against the 26 other EU leaders is going to veto an extension.
Throwing Ireland under a bus and causing economic problems for other member states.
Macron is seriously beginning to piss off the rest of the EU with his showboating .
It is probably agreed with the EU leaders that Macron gets to play the tough guy. Good for his domestic audience and encourages the UK to believe the EU might reject a future extension. It is just theatre, the EU will not choose no deal.
I wonder how close to a breakdown some MPs are over all this. Labour leavers are under two sets of immense pressure in particular.
Crying through the Aye lobby on third reading anyone ?
The stress must be unbearable
However, they decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed to change the deal to a customs union and referendum, but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
I wonder how close to a breakdown some MPs are over all this. Labour leavers are under two sets of immense pressure in particular.
Crying through the Aye lobby on third reading anyone ?
The stress must be unbearable
However, they decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed to change the deal to a customs union and referendum, but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
Scrutiny was not about customs union or referendum, as those never had the votes to win. Im not sure either would have got within 20.
It was about parliamanetary oversight of the future FTA, which dear leader felt was an affront to his power so threw his toys out of the pram.
I really wish French officials would stop talking nonsense .
Are we really supposed to believe Macron against the 26 other EU leaders is going to veto an extension.
Throwing Ireland under a bus and causing economic problems for other member states.
Macron is seriously beginning to piss off the rest of the EU with his showboating .
Yes Macron would go against 26 others Probably wouldn't throw Ireland under a bus. I didn't think Brexit caused economic issues for other EU states. Macron wants the French vision of the EU to be dominate the EU for the next phase of it development.
Prisoners can't vote, so locking up 71% of Leave voters for GBH should ensure a handy victory for Remain in the second referendum. Can't believe no-one thought of it before.
I wonder how close to a breakdown some MPs are over all this. Labour leavers are under two sets of immense pressure in particular.
Crying through the Aye lobby on third reading anyone ?
The stress must be unbearable
However, they decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed to change the deal to a customs union and referendum, but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
I wonder how close to a breakdown the PM is over all this.
The stress must be unbearable
However, he decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed bulldoze the WAB through with inadequate scrutiny but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
I really wish French officials would stop talking nonsense .
Are we really supposed to believe Macron against the 26 other EU leaders is going to veto an extension.
Throwing Ireland under a bus and causing economic problems for other member states.
Macron is seriously beginning to piss off the rest of the EU with his showboating .
Yes Macron would go against 26 others Probably wouldn't throw Ireland under a bus. I didn't think Brexit caused economic issues for other EU states. Macron wants the French vision of the EU to be dominant the EU for the next phase of it development.
Government are on the back foot and I wonder whether this may end up in a deal with opposition parties for a GE + confirmatory referendum (or vice versa).
I don't see Ref2 myself but at least it does work now as a proposition (setting aside the question of whether it is 'democratic' or not). Why? Because we now have a Leave option - the Boris Deal - which is deliverable AND backed by Leavers. That against Remain would be a legitimate match-up where both sides would have a decent chance of winning. We're talking Federer Nadal on a hard court.
Prisoners can't vote, so locking up 71% of Leave voters for GBH should ensure a handy victory for Remain in the second referendum. Can't believe no-one thought of it before.
As long as Sturgeon's locked up for sedition I'm not picking any sides in this civil war.
I wonder how close to a breakdown some MPs are over all this. Labour leavers are under two sets of immense pressure in particular.
Crying through the Aye lobby on third reading anyone ?
The stress must be unbearable
However, they decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed to change the deal to a customs union and referendum, but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
I wonder how close to a breakdown the PM is over all this.
The stress must be unbearable
However, he decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed bulldoze the WAB through with inadequate scrutiny but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
I wonder how close to a breakdown some MPs are over all this. Labour leavers are under two sets of immense pressure in particular.
Crying through the Aye lobby on third reading anyone ?
The stress must be unbearable
However, they decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed to change the deal to a customs union and referendum, but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
Although parliamentary process and game playing are always going to go together as long as we have the current adversarial system, I don’t think it’s fair or accurate to describe as ‘too clever’ MPs wanting time to understand and seek to amend the massive executive power grab set out in the WAB, and to insist on tighter protections in relation to the no-deal cliff edge being legislated for Dec 2020.
Legislation has consequences and bad legislation done in a hurry has bad unforeseen consequences - something that we are all discussing every day as a result of the FTPA, for example.
I really wish French officials would stop talking nonsense .
Are we really supposed to believe Macron against the 26 other EU leaders is going to veto an extension.
Throwing Ireland under a bus and causing economic problems for other member states.
Macron is seriously beginning to piss off the rest of the EU with his showboating .
Yes Macron would go against 26 others Probably wouldn't throw Ireland under a bus. I didn't think Brexit caused economic issues for other EU states. Macron wants the French vision of the EU to be dominant the EU for the next phase of it development.
Changing the official language, for starters.
German is more widely understood than French across the modern EU.
I wonder how close to a breakdown some MPs are over all this. Labour leavers are under two sets of immense pressure in particular.
Crying through the Aye lobby on third reading anyone ?
The stress must be unbearable
However, they decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed to change the deal to a customs union and referendum, but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
Although parliamentary process and game playing are always going to go together as long as we have the current adversarial system, I don’t think it’s fair or accurate to describe as ‘too clever’ MPs wanting time to understand and seek to amend the massive executive power grab set out in the WAB, and to insist on tighter protections in relation to the no-deal cliff edge being legislated for Dec 2020.
Legislation has consequences and bad legislation done in a hurry has bad unforeseen consequences - something that we are all discussing every day as a result of the FTPA, for example.
Regrettably a lot of very bad legislation is done slowly as well.
I wonder how close to a breakdown some MPs are over all this. Labour leavers are under two sets of immense pressure in particular.
Crying through the Aye lobby on third reading anyone ?
The stress must be unbearable
However, they decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed to change the deal to a customs union and referendum, but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
I wonder how close to a breakdown the PM is over all this.
The stress must be unbearable
However, he decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed bulldoze the WAB through with inadequate scrutiny but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
Messing with my posts is not very original. It is verging on plagiarism
I wonder how close to a breakdown some MPs are over all this. Labour leavers are under two sets of immense pressure in particular.
Crying through the Aye lobby on third reading anyone ?
The stress must be unbearable
However, they decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed to change the deal to a customs union and referendum, but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
I wonder how close to a breakdown the PM is over all this.
The stress must be unbearable
However, he decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed bulldoze the WAB through with inadequate scrutiny but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
Probably further away from one than you are?
I'm really very relaxed and enjoying this. Better than a box set. My bets generally are green. I'm loving it actually. Can't wait for the GE, knocking on doors.
Government are on the back foot and I wonder whether this may end up in a deal with opposition parties for a GE + confirmatory referendum (or vice versa).
I don't see Ref2 myself but at least it does work now as a proposition (setting aside the question of whether it is 'democratic' or not). Why? Because we now have a Leave option - the Boris Deal - which is deliverable AND backed by Leavers. That against Remain would be a legitimate match-up where both sides would have a decent chance of winning. We're talking Federer Nadal on a hard court.
No deal is and will be the third choice as confirmed by a consitutional expert recently. The electoral commission has to assess the wording and the referendum must include all opinions. TBP has 29 meps and 5 million plus votes (not any of mine) and their sole policy is no deal
Inclined to agree with the premise of the thread. Farage has shown a remarkable capacity to underperform at FPTP elections and to fail to learn from the repeated mistakes.
I wonder how close to a breakdown some MPs are over all this. Labour leavers are under two sets of immense pressure in particular.
Crying through the Aye lobby on third reading anyone ?
The stress must be unbearable
However, they decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed to change the deal to a customs union and referendum, but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
I wonder how close to a breakdown the PM is over all this.
The stress must be unbearable
However, he decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed bulldoze the WAB through with inadequate scrutiny but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
Messing with my posts is not very original. It is verging on plagiarism
It's a mirror designed to show there are always two sides to an argument.
Kinabalu said: "I don't see Ref2 myself but at least it does work now as a proposition. Why? Because we now have a Leave option - the Boris Deal - which is deliverable AND backed by Leavers. That against Remain would be a legitimate match-up"
That`s a good point - now we have a Leave option - i.e. a method of leaving which Brexiters can support and therefore counts as leaving.
The problem is that it will get amended and I suspect that remainer MPs will craft amendments deliberately to make Boris`s deal no longer attractive to Brexiter MPs!
Inclined to agree with the premise of the thread. Farage has shown a remarkable capacity to underperform at FPTP elections and to fail to learn from the repeated mistakes.
Dry but cold and overcast in Mexico, P1 about to get underway.
I wonder how close to a breakdown some MPs are over all this. Labour leavers are under two sets of immense pressure in particular.
Crying through the Aye lobby on third reading anyone ?
The stress must be unbearable
However, they decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed to change the deal to a customs union and referendum, but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
I wonder how close to a breakdown the PM is over all this.
The stress must be unbearable
However, he decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed bulldoze the WAB through with inadequate scrutiny but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
Messing with my posts is not very original. It is verging on plagiarism
I wonder how close to a breakdown some MPs are over all this. Labour leavers are under two sets of immense pressure in particular.
Crying through the Aye lobby on third reading anyone ?
The stress must be unbearable
However, they decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed to change the deal to a customs union and referendum, but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
I wonder how close to a breakdown the PM is over all this.
The stress must be unbearable
However, he decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed bulldoze the WAB through with inadequate scrutiny but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
Messing with my posts is not very original. It is verging on plagiarism
It's a mirror designed to show there are always two sides to an argument.
I wonder how close to a breakdown some MPs are over all this. Labour leavers are under two sets of immense pressure in particular.
Crying through the Aye lobby on third reading anyone ?
The stress must be unbearable
However, they decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed to change the deal to a customs union and referendum, but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
I wonder how close to a breakdown the PM is over all this.
The stress must be unbearable
However, he decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed bulldoze the WAB through with inadequate scrutiny but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
Messing with my posts is not very original. It is verging on plagiarism
Don't think he's quite thought through his own acquiescence in 'sexual harassment and assault allegations that have been deliberately sat upon by people on power'.
Not that stupid if he still has Parliamentary privilege for his accusations.
Might be a few MPs not seeking re-election?
I thought Parliamentary privilege only applies to statements made in the chamber. Subsequent dissemination in print / writing would be covered, but if he just writes letters without first making the allegations in the Commons he wouldn't be.
It depends who he writes the letters to and how. No one would or could be held liable for writing, without malice, to the police, for example, if they had legitimate reason to believe an offence had been committed - that would merit public interest privilege. If the person has a duty to recipients and the recipients have an interest in receiving the letter then that would merit qualified privilege. Absolute privilege also attaches to papers circulated by order of the House.
Writing to a newspaper is a completely different kettle of fish of course.
Kinabalu said: "I don't see Ref2 myself but at least it does work now as a proposition. Why? Because we now have a Leave option - the Boris Deal - which is deliverable AND backed by Leavers. That against Remain would be a legitimate match-up"
That`s a good point - now we have a Leave option - i.e. a method of leaving which Brexiters can support and therefore counts as leaving.
The problem is that it will get amended and I suspect that remainer MPs will craft amendments deliberately to make Boris`s deal no longer attractive to Brexiter MPs!
Both of you are missing the point that the electoral commission would have to work out the wording to including no deal. As in everything brexit it is not as simple as it seems
I wonder how close to a breakdown some MPs are over all this. Labour leavers are under two sets of immense pressure in particular.
Crying through the Aye lobby on third reading anyone ?
The stress must be unbearable
However, they decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed to change the deal to a customs union and referendum, but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
I wonder how close to a breakdown the PM is over all this.
The stress must be unbearable
However, he decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed bulldoze the WAB through with inadequate scrutiny but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
Messing with my posts is not very original. It is verging on plagiarism
I wonder how close to a breakdown some MPs are over all this. Labour leavers are under two sets of immense pressure in particular.
Crying through the Aye lobby on third reading anyone ?
The stress must be unbearable
However, they decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed to change the deal to a customs union and referendum, but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
I wonder how close to a breakdown the PM is over all this.
The stress must be unbearable
However, he decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed bulldoze the WAB through with inadequate scrutiny but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
Probably further away from one than you are?
I'm really very relaxed and enjoying this. Better than a box set. My bets generally are green. I'm loving it actually. Can't wait for the GE, knocking on doors.
I guess you should either give up knocking on doors or stop insinuating people are on the verge of a breakdown if you want to rescue any shred of credibility or be of use while knocking on doors.
I wonder how close to a breakdown some MPs are over all this. Labour leavers are under two sets of immense pressure in particular.
Crying through the Aye lobby on third reading anyone ?
The stress must be unbearable
However, they decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed to change the deal to a customs union and referendum, but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
I wonder how close to a breakdown the PM is over all this.
The stress must be unbearable
However, he decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed bulldoze the WAB through with inadequate scrutiny but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
Messing with my posts is not very original. It is verging on plagiarism
Mr. Sandpit, I'd forgotten how late Mexico starts. It's 7pm for qualifying and just after (the following day, of course) for the race.
Yes, and USA will be the same times next weekend. Brazil's a couple of hours earlier. Abu Dhabi is of course at usual European race times, but the race starts as dusk local time - and I'll be there!
Hang on, I thought you loved the Europeans controlling our affairs?
Fake News, the EU is like the Seventh Coalition with us at the heart of it, cf the creation of the Single Market and the Eastern expansion, all British ideas.
I wonder how close to a breakdown some MPs are over all this. Labour leavers are under two sets of immense pressure in particular.
Crying through the Aye lobby on third reading anyone ?
The stress must be unbearable
However, they decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed to change the deal to a customs union and referendum, but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
I wonder how close to a breakdown the PM is over all this.
The stress must be unbearable
However, he decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed bulldoze the WAB through with inadequate scrutiny but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
Probably further away from one than you are?
I'm really very relaxed and enjoying this. Better than a box set. My bets generally are green. I'm loving it actually. Can't wait for the GE, knocking on doors.
I guess you should either give up knocking on doors or stop insinuating people are on the verge of a breakdown if you want to rescue any shred of credibility or be of use while knocking on doors.
Life is generally better than a box set.
Look through this thread to find who first introduced the idea of breakdown and stress. It certainly wasn't me. I just mirrored it.
Mr. Sandpit, I'd forgotten how late Mexico starts. It's 7pm for qualifying and just after (the following day, of course) for the race.
Yes, and USA will be the same times next weekend. Brazil's a couple of hours earlier. Abu Dhabi is of course at usual European race times, but the race starts as dusk local time - and I'll be there!
Enjoy! My Bro's been to lot's of foreign ones but we both started at sliverstone. I don't travel very well.
The trouble with this market is that we don't know when the election will be. You could be tying your money in for a long time and you might find the election circumstances are very different. For example, a messy much-amended Brexit deal that is ultimately pulled by Boris might result in a lot more BXP seats than 4.
One thing to bear in mind is that for a new party FPTP is terribly difficult. You have no track record with which to convince the public you have a chance of winning. You have limited data to work out where your supporters are. It is very hard to convert votes to seats.
The Alliance won 13 seats on 26.4% of the vote in 1983.
Some of the circumstances are different and more favourable to the Brexit Party, but not all of them are.
It's worth noting that the Leave vote is not as extremely concentrated as the Remain vote. Only 21 seats voted by more than 70% for Leave compared to 38 for Remain. I haven't looked in detail, but I suspect a number of otherwise promising targets are currently held by ERG stalwarts.
I suspect that OGH's long experience with parties outside the big two failing to win seats in numbers to match the polling and hype is reassuring him that the downside risk on the bet is more modest then you might think.
Both of you are missing the point that the electoral commission would have to work out the wording to including no deal. As in everything brexit it is not as simple as it seems
Given the Boris Deal is 'true leave' for most Leavers the absence of No Deal from the Ref2* ballot paper would not be such a big problem as it would if the Leave option were, say, the May Deal
* That's the Ref2 that remains IMO very much a Not Happening event.
Who is going to seize the SO24 to push the WAIB through the Commons though. Surely Benn etc won't want to have their hands on that ? It's a money bill too - I doubt even Bercow wants to break the rules THAT much.
If the opposition parties were left with the choice of an unamended WAB or no deal, why would they choose the latter?
It makes no sense and is why the Tories can be relaxed about focusing on domestic policy until remainer MPs come to their senses and realise that attaching wrecking amendments to the bill will just get it pulled.
It is Russia Today. Of course it is propoganda. Not helped by the Guardian. Or the UK public. Or the UK politicians and journalists who have led us down the path Putin desired.
Comments
We’ve also seen the demise of Johnson’s claim that he would rather be found ‘dead in a ditch’ than delay Brexit beyond 31 October. Though the Prime Minister hasn’t openly acknowledged that he’s missing the deadline, his 12 December election bid was an attempt to move the conversation straight past an awkward admission.
we are rapidly entering the territory of a government crying wolf while trying to look in control.
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/number-10-drops-its-threat-to-go-on-strike/
https://twitter.com/RTUKnews/status/1187711762826780672?s=20
They've agreed two different deals with us. They don't understand why we're incapable of getting on with it (or decisively changing our minds not to do it). They want it over.
They certainly do not want another UK government turning up in Brussels trying to start another renegotiation of the Withdrawal Agreement. This is something that a long extension would invite.
Logically if Parliament agrees to an election then an extension to 31 January makes sense.
If Parliament rejects an election then nothing is going to change so Macron should veto the extension, or give just a week extra to pass the deal.
Then let's see how much scrutiny they want to give it. And no, they won't have the rugby on in the bars.
Government are on the back foot and I wonder whether this may end up in a deal with opposition parties for a GE + confirmatory referendum (or vice versa).
That is highly unlikely but would be highly amusing on one or two levels.
Lock the traitor up.
Crying through the Aye lobby on third reading anyone ?
I take that to mean agree the election and it will be 31/01, otherwise November sometime.
Boris wants the deal passed unamended and/or a GE. Clear and concise
However, I understand that the EU have taken to Boris as someone they can do business with and in particular a friendship has grown between Boris and Macron
The EU are becoming increasingly frustrated with Corbyn and in the end I expect they will confirm a short extension to mid November to pass the deal or the option to the 31st January to hold a GE.
They will not let this 'game playing' continue, they have very big problems themselves and I believe they are now ready to cut us adrift and move on
I also genuinely believe labour are causing immense damage to their brand and should the SNP and Lib Dems move to back a GE with the proviso that if it does not get the 434 needed they will support a one line motion for the GE and without delaying amendments
The winners in that scenario are the SNP, Lib Dems and Boris with labour holed below the waterline
Of course it may not happen but if the SNP and Lib Dems take this opportunity they should benefit with considerable increased support
Are we really supposed to believe Macron against the 26 other EU leaders is going to veto an extension.
Throwing Ireland under a bus and causing economic problems for other member states.
Macron is seriously beginning to piss off the rest of the EU with his showboating .
Still, not going to happen on Oct 31.
So all agreed except it can all change.
However, they decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed to change the deal to a customs union and referendum, but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
It was about parliamanetary oversight of the future FTA, which dear leader felt was an affront to his power so threw his toys out of the pram.
Probably wouldn't throw Ireland under a bus.
I didn't think Brexit caused economic issues for other EU states.
Macron wants the French vision of the EU to be dominate the EU for the next phase of it development.
The stress must be unbearable
However, he decided to play games with the second reading and programme motion in a move designed bulldoze the WAB through with inadequate scrutiny but how it has backfired
In both TM deal and Boris's they tried to be too clever and how they must now be regretting their decisions
Legislation has consequences and bad legislation done in a hurry has bad unforeseen consequences - something that we are all discussing every day as a result of the FTPA, for example.
Con 299
Lab 255
LD 21
PC 4
SNP 51
Grn 1
BXP 1
NI 18
BREXIT IS BUGGERED
A way to end this . If an election happens they expect Johnson to win and so the deal goes through .
If there’s no sign of an election then the deal gets ratified otherwise it’s no deal .
Not sure this is particularly controversial.
Inclined to agree with the premise of the thread. Farage has shown a remarkable capacity to underperform at FPTP elections and to fail to learn from the repeated mistakes.
It's not earth shattering, but the first piece of positive news for her in a while.
That`s a good point - now we have a Leave option - i.e. a method of leaving which Brexiters can support and therefore counts as leaving.
The problem is that it will get amended and I suspect that remainer MPs will craft amendments deliberately to make Boris`s deal no longer attractive to Brexiter MPs!
Writing to a newspaper is a completely different kettle of fish of course.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1187743630599032832
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1187743632041893889
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1187743633761603586
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1187743635074441217
Life is generally better than a box set.
Leavers like you are the modern day Halifaxes.
* That's the Ref2 that remains IMO very much a Not Happening event.
It's a money bill too - I doubt even Bercow wants to break the rules THAT much.
I've put a tiny bit on McLaren to get a podium (think that was Mr. Sandpit's idea).
It makes no sense and is why the Tories can be relaxed about focusing on domestic policy until remainer MPs come to their senses and realise that attaching wrecking amendments to the bill will just get it pulled.
Lord knows where we go after that.