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  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    justin124 said:

    Given the Government;s weak Parliamentary position, there must be doubt as to its ability to control the passage of the WAIB .Whether relying on Programme Orders or a Guillotine Motion, without DUP support there is surely the potential to delay significantly.

    Or, if no extension is granted, the Lords could filibuster on the 31st to effect a no deal exit.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited October 2019

    I sincerely hope that in the spirit with which he held his post that convention is dispensed with and Bercow is ignored for honours in perpetuity.
    Citizen Bercow must live amongst us as our equal, it's the right thing to do.

    Judging by the quality of your posts I doubt you are Bercow's equal in much, whether he is ennobled or not. Bercow is a bit of a preening prick, but he is actually a champion of the House of Commons, and for that reason he will be remembered positively
    *shrugs*
    I'd say comment on and attacks (verbal) against public figures are fair play, ad hominems by random trolls on fellow posters less so, but that's just me.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    blueblue said:

    Zephyr said:

    Chris said:

    If the EU do make no extension noises this weekend then I anticipate a stampede to pass the WAIB all of a sudden

    I don't believe it's at all dependent on threats from the EU any more.

    It may not be a stampede, but now the Tory party has coalesced behind a deal agreed with the EU I think it is inevitable. If only we could be sure of the timing (i.e. by the end of the year) I think the betting markets would be offering free money.
    The timing is Oct 31 without an extension. If MPs are really prepared to risk crashing out no deal it may go beyond, Halloween is strong favourite though
    I don’t think you realise what’s happened in the last week and the hole Boris is in.

    He surrendered to EU demands in order to avoid No Deal.

    He might have had a commons majority for a deal today, but it could just as easily unwind now in coming days, AND IF SO the only way out for Boris is 2nd ref.
    No, the way out is an election in which he demolishes the opposition :smile:
    I wonder if anyone here really thinks that, with the Tory party united behind this deal. they wouldn't win a majority in a general election.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    PaulM said:

    DougSeal said:

    RobD said:

    DougSeal said:

    blueblue said:

    The Opposition is terrified of an election, terrified of even a simple yes or no vote in Parliament. What exactly does that tell you about their confidence in themselves?

    And who’s leader was PM when the FTPA was passed? You helped make the new rules - you can’t complain when someone else uses them to their advantage.
    FTPA was Clegg's idea. ;)
    I know. But he couldn’t have passed it without Cameron. When I joined the LDs I was asked whose image I wanted on my membership card. I asked for Charles Kennedy and got Nick Clegg. I nearly resigned there and then. ;)
    Am sure this has been answered before, but why couldn't the FTPA be repealed by a simple majority ?

    Can be, but not until after June 2020
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    PaulM said:

    DougSeal said:

    RobD said:

    DougSeal said:

    blueblue said:

    The Opposition is terrified of an election, terrified of even a simple yes or no vote in Parliament. What exactly does that tell you about their confidence in themselves?

    And who’s leader was PM when the FTPA was passed? You helped make the new rules - you can’t complain when someone else uses them to their advantage.
    FTPA was Clegg's idea. ;)
    I know. But he couldn’t have passed it without Cameron. When I joined the LDs I was asked whose image I wanted on my membership card. I asked for Charles Kennedy and got Nick Clegg. I nearly resigned there and then. ;)
    Am sure this has been answered before, but why couldn't the FTPA be repealed by a simple majority ?

    Can be, but not until after June 2020
    It can be repealed at any time.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Foe everyone championing the glories of Letwin, the fact is no extension has been agreed and no MV passed. No deal is tonight more likely than this morning. Letwin has achieved that.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    blueblue said:


    Boris: Ah, here is the tracking number and the phone number for you to call. The former will tell you that it was posted from Victoria Street SW1, and the latter will keep you on hold for the next few weeks. Good luck!

    Just needs to send it by Yodel, no chance it arrives.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    This thread has written a letter to the EU

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    Given the Government;s weak Parliamentary position, there must be doubt as to its ability to control the passage of the WAIB .Whether relying on Programme Orders or a Guillotine Motion, without DUP support there is surely the potential to delay significantly.

    Yet more delays and silly games. I can see that being popular in the country.
    That's not the focus anymore (and it would be popular with half the country anyway). It's about whether Brexit can be stopped or not - the bill is the last fight, of course it will be rancrous.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Andrew, normally I'd agree, but the last delivery I received from Yodel was delivered to the right address by a sensible chap who knocked on the door (the instructions on the parcel were to put it through the letterbox, which would've been challenging given its dimensions).

    Although the two previous times involved large quantities of dog food being delivered to the wrong street, so...
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited October 2019
    TudorRose said:

    justin124 said:

    Given the Government;s weak Parliamentary position, there must be doubt as to its ability to control the passage of the WAIB .Whether relying on Programme Orders or a Guillotine Motion, without DUP support there is surely the potential to delay significantly.

    Or, if no extension is granted, the Lords could filibuster on the 31st to effect a no deal exit.
    I’m not so sure. If you’re a Labour rebel, stand fast anything emerging in the Bill as a complete surprise and you changing your mind, you want it settled as quickly as possible don’t you? I think it follows that if he has Labour rebels and the Letwin mob on side, he’s got the numbers to avoid really silly delaying tactics and a Bill should pass. He Probably also has the numbers to a avoid a second referendum. What he may not have the numbers for is avoiding a shopping list of negotiating objectives like SM/CU membership. But that bit won’t bother him too much as there’ll be an election before they bite.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,215
    TudorRose said:

    justin124 said:

    Given the Government;s weak Parliamentary position, there must be doubt as to its ability to control the passage of the WAIB .Whether relying on Programme Orders or a Guillotine Motion, without DUP support there is surely the potential to delay significantly.

    Or, if no extension is granted, the Lords could filibuster on the 31st to effect a no deal exit.
    Brilliant though Lord True is at the craft I expect he'll support the Gov't to deal.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited October 2019
    This government never learns . They’re now going to bring back the same vote and ignore the Letwin Amendment .

    And then if that wins withdraw the request for the extension. When the amendment clearly states that the full legislation has to be passed before that can be done .
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited October 2019
    RobD said:

    PaulM said:

    DougSeal said:

    RobD said:

    DougSeal said:

    blueblue said:

    The Opposition is terrified of an election, terrified of even a simple yes or no vote in Parliament. What exactly does that tell you about their confidence in themselves?

    And who’s leader was PM when the FTPA was passed? You helped make the new rules - you can’t complain when someone else uses them to their advantage.
    FTPA was Clegg's idea. ;)
    I know. But he couldn’t have passed it without Cameron. When I joined the LDs I was asked whose image I wanted on my membership card. I asked for Charles Kennedy and got Nick Clegg. I nearly resigned there and then. ;)
    Am sure this has been answered before, but why couldn't the FTPA be repealed by a simple majority ?

    Can be, but not until after June 2020
    It can be repealed at any time.
    Also you can’t just repeal it. That wouldn’t reintroduce the old process. So getting rid of it requires a new Act. I’d personally just amend to allow dissolution on a simple majority.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    Chris said:

    If the EU do make no extension noises this weekend then I anticipate a stampede to pass the WAIB all of a sudden

    I don't believe it's at all dependent on threats from the EU any more.

    It may not be a stampede, but now the Tory party has coalesced behind a deal agreed with the EU I think it is inevitable. If only we could be sure of the timing (i.e. by the end of the year) I think the betting markets would be offering free money.
    The timing is Oct 31 without an extension. If MPs are really prepared to risk crashing out no deal it may go beyond, Halloween is strong favourite though
    I wouldn't disagree with Halloween being the favourite.

    From a betting point of view, I find Brexit by the end of the year, at nearly even money, very tempting. It's just a question of the timing of an election, if an election is necessary. I'd still be interested in any scenarios people can suggest, in which it doesn't happen before the end of the year.

    Would they see an election somehow being avoided? Or put off until next year, or too late this year to get the legislation through? Or would they see the Tories losing an election?
  • Zephyr said:

    Chris said:

    If the EU do make no extension noises this weekend then I anticipate a stampede to pass the WAIB all of a sudden

    I don't believe it's at all dependent on threats from the EU any more.

    It may not be a stampede, but now the Tory party has coalesced behind a deal agreed with the EU I think it is inevitable. If only we could be sure of the timing (i.e. by the end of the year) I think the betting markets would be offering free money.
    The timing is Oct 31 without an extension. If MPs are really prepared to risk crashing out no deal it may go beyond, Halloween is strong favourite though
    I don’t think you realise what’s happened in the last week and the hole Boris is in.

    He surrendered to EU demands in order to avoid No Deal.

    He might have had a commons majority for a deal today, but it could just as easily unwind now in coming days, AND IF SO the only way out for Boris is 2nd ref.
    1. I don't consider he has surrendered at all. Both sides moved. That is what we call negotiation.

    2. He has not avoided No Deal. If the Deal has not been ratified by Parliament 31st October or whenever the very short EU extension runs out, it will still be either No Deal or Revoke

    I can't work out from your postings if you are a pissed of No Dealer or a desperately hopeful Remainer. But either way I think you are letting your own hatred of the del cloud your judgement.
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 438
    Chris said:

    blueblue said:

    Zephyr said:

    Chris said:

    If the EU do make no extension noises this weekend then I anticipate a stampede to pass the WAIB all of a sudden

    I don't believe it's at all dependent on threats from the EU any more.

    It may not be a stampede, but now the Tory party has coalesced behind a deal agreed with the EU I think it is inevitable. If only we could be sure of the timing (i.e. by the end of the year) I think the betting markets would be offering free money.
    The timing is Oct 31 without an extension. If MPs are really prepared to risk crashing out no deal it may go beyond, Halloween is strong favourite though
    I don’t think you realise what’s happened in the last week and the hole Boris is in.

    He surrendered to EU demands in order to avoid No Deal.

    He might have had a commons majority for a deal today, but it could just as easily unwind now in coming days, AND IF SO the only way out for Boris is 2nd ref.
    No, the way out is an election in which he demolishes the opposition :smile:
    I wonder if anyone here really thinks that, with the Tory party united behind this deal. they wouldn't win a majority in a general election.
    They don’t have the gift of calling an election 😀

    Election not happening. 2nd ref is happening.

    Do you need it in 23 languages before penny drops.


    Here. Dime bar. Dime, barrrrrrr 😂
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The DUP will not vote for the second reading of the WAIB . This makes things a bit risky for the government unless they make sure they’ve got enough guarantees on the face of the bill for Labour MPs .

  • nico67 said:

    This government never learns . They’re now going to bring back the same vote and ignore the Letwin Amendment .

    And then if that wins withdraw the request for the extension. When the amendment clearly states that the full legislation has to be passed before that can be done .

    Does the Letwin amendment still stand or did it fall when the Government pulled the main motion today? Serious question, I don't know the dynamics of this.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    nico67 said:

    This government never learns . They’re now going to bring back the same vote and ignore the Letwin Amendment .

    And then if that wins withdraw the request for the extension. When the amendment clearly states that the full legislation has to be passed before that can be done .

    It doesn't, the amendment says nothing about Benn. It just made it triggered. Benn itself says an extension can be withdrawn after a MV passes
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    nico67 said:

    This government never learns . They’re now going to bring back the same vote and ignore the Letwin Amendment .

    And then if that wins withdraw the request for the extension. When the amendment clearly states that the full legislation has to be passed before that can be done .

    Does the Letwin amendment still stand or did it fall when the Government pulled the main motion today? Serious question, I don't know the dynamics of this.
    The government motion as amended went through on the nod .

    They are now trying to avoid that with some weird technicality which Bercow didn’t think much of .

    Tune in on Monday afternoon where Bercow could cause major drama .
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    Zephyr said:

    Chris said:

    blueblue said:

    Zephyr said:

    Chris said:

    If the EU do make no extension noises this weekend then I anticipate a stampede to pass the WAIB all of a sudden

    I don't believe it's at all dependent on threats from the EU any more.

    It may not be a stampede, but now the Tory party has coalesced behind a deal agreed with the EU I think it is inevitable. If only we could be sure of the timing (i.e. by the end of the year) I think the betting markets would be offering free money.
    The timing is Oct 31 without an extension. If MPs are really prepared to risk crashing out no deal it may go beyond, Halloween is strong favourite though
    I don’t think you realise what’s happened in the last week and the hole Boris is in.

    He surrendered to EU demands in order to avoid No Deal.

    He might have had a commons majority for a deal today, but it could just as easily unwind now in coming days, AND IF SO the only way out for Boris is 2nd ref.
    No, the way out is an election in which he demolishes the opposition :smile:
    I wonder if anyone here really thinks that, with the Tory party united behind this deal. they wouldn't win a majority in a general election.
    They don’t have the gift of calling an election 😀

    Election not happening. 2nd ref is happening.

    Do you need it in 23 languages before penny drops.


    Here. Dime bar. Dime, barrrrrrr 😂
    So what you're saying, presumably, is that even if a 3-month extension is agreed, the opposition parties will block an election?
  • Scott_P said:
    Boris has been a silly old sausage. To think that the vast and ancient problems of Northern Ireland could be swept aside with an arrangement that was cobbled together in panic was dangerous and naive. Theresa was often accused of being tin eared, but she showed much more deftness and understanding on this matter. Worrying times.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Bercow is likely to refuse to allow MV5.

    And will just say to the government bring forward the WAIB which because it hasn’t passed all its stages means the Benn Act remains in place .
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Omg I agree with Steve Baker .

    He’s right chatting with Emily Maitlis , once the government motion was amended it was meaningless.

    It neither could be used for yes or no to the deal at that point .
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Surely not could the DUP support a second referendum .

    The UUP have said they’d rather remain in the EU than agree to this deal , this might allow the DUP as a last resort to say we tried but the only way now is to ditch Brexit .

    The DUP can’t allow no deal and can’t allow this deal to go through so how many options do they have left .
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Foe everyone championing the glories of Letwin, the fact is no extension has been agreed and no MV passed. No deal is tonight more likely than this morning. Letwin has achieved that.

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/1185568278103711746?s=20
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236

    Zephyr said:

    Chris said:

    If the EU do make no extension noises this weekend then I anticipate a stampede to pass the WAIB all of a sudden

    I don't believe it's at all dependent on threats from the EU any more.

    It may not be a stampede, but now the Tory party has coalesced behind a deal agreed with the EU I think it is inevitable. If only we could be sure of the timing (i.e. by the end of the year) I think the betting markets would be offering free money.
    The timing is Oct 31 without an extension. If MPs are really prepared to risk crashing out no deal it may go beyond, Halloween is strong favourite though
    I don’t think you realise what’s happened in the last week and the hole Boris is in.

    He surrendered to EU demands in order to avoid No Deal.

    He might have had a commons majority for a deal today, but it could just as easily unwind now in coming days, AND IF SO the only way out for Boris is 2nd ref.
    1. I don't consider he has surrendered at all. Both sides moved. That is what we call negotiation.

    2. He has not avoided No Deal. If the Deal has not been ratified by Parliament 31st October or whenever the very short EU extension runs out, it will still be either No Deal or Revoke

    I can't work out from your postings if you are a pissed of No Dealer or a desperately hopeful Remainer. But either way I think you are letting your own hatred of the del cloud your judgement.
    Personally, I'm pissed off with pretty much everyone at this point.

    I'm pissed off with BJ who has acted with greater arrogance than Ms May, and who basically lied to the DUP.

    I'm pissed off with game playing MPs (particularly Tory rebels and a Labour Leavers) who say they respect the referendum result, but don't really.

    I'm pissed off with the Spartans and the ERG, who turned down a perfectly sensible Leave.

    There's probably a few more people I'm pissed at.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Flanner said:

    IDS, the only one-time leader of a British political party who is even denser than Corbyn. Anything he says is highly likely to either be a lie or just misunderstanding due to his stupidity
    IDS telling us what Johnson says he's been told? The brain-dead recounting a story from a congenital liar?

    Is that the absolute definition of unreliability?
    Quite the reverse: a liar reporting what the brain deal thinks he has been told would be more unreliable
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    rcs1000 said:

    Zephyr said:

    Chris said:

    If the EU do make no extension noises this weekend then I anticipate a stampede to pass the WAIB all of a sudden

    I don't believe it's at all dependent on threats from the EU any more.

    It may not be a stampede, but now the Tory party has coalesced behind a deal agreed with the EU I think it is inevitable. If only we could be sure of the timing (i.e. by the end of the year) I think the betting markets would be offering free money.
    The timing is Oct 31 without an extension. If MPs are really prepared to risk crashing out no deal it may go beyond, Halloween is strong favourite though
    I don’t think you realise what’s happened in the last week and the hole Boris is in.

    He surrendered to EU demands in order to avoid No Deal.

    He might have had a commons majority for a deal today, but it could just as easily unwind now in coming days, AND IF SO the only way out for Boris is 2nd ref.
    1. I don't consider he has surrendered at all. Both sides moved. That is what we call negotiation.

    2. He has not avoided No Deal. If the Deal has not been ratified by Parliament 31st October or whenever the very short EU extension runs out, it will still be either No Deal or Revoke

    I can't work out from your postings if you are a pissed of No Dealer or a desperately hopeful Remainer. But either way I think you are letting your own hatred of the del cloud your judgement.
    Personally, I'm pissed off with pretty much everyone at this point.

    I'm pissed off with BJ who has acted with greater arrogance than Ms May, and who basically lied to the DUP.

    I'm pissed off with game playing MPs (particularly Tory rebels and a Labour Leavers) who say they respect the referendum result, but don't really.

    I'm pissed off with the Spartans and the ERG, who turned down a perfectly sensible Leave.

    There's probably a few more people I'm pissed at.
    Are you pissed off with yourself for voting for this mess?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I sincerely hope that in the spirit with which he held his post that convention is dispensed with and Bercow is ignored for honours in perpetuity.
    Citizen Bercow must live amongst us as our equal, it's the right thing to do.

    Judging by the quality of your posts I doubt you are Bercow's equal in much, whether he is ennobled or not. Bercow is a bit of a preening prick, but he is actually a champion of the House of Commons, and for that reason he will be remembered positively
    He could have been a great Speaker who stood up for the Commons.

    The problem is through unnecessary errors (eg the car sticker and various witticisms) he left himself open to accusations he had a political agenda.

    So instead he will be remembered as someone who Compromised the independence of the Chair
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    Charles said:

    I sincerely hope that in the spirit with which he held his post that convention is dispensed with and Bercow is ignored for honours in perpetuity.
    Citizen Bercow must live amongst us as our equal, it's the right thing to do.

    Judging by the quality of your posts I doubt you are Bercow's equal in much, whether he is ennobled or not. Bercow is a bit of a preening prick, but he is actually a champion of the House of Commons, and for that reason he will be remembered positively
    He could have been a great Speaker who stood up for the Commons.

    The problem is through unnecessary errors (eg the car sticker and various witticisms) he left himself open to accusations he had a political agenda.

    So instead he will be remembered as someone who Compromised the independence of the Chair
    Wasn't the car sticker his wife's (on his wife's car)?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited October 2019
    rcs1000 said:

    Zephyr said:

    Chris said:

    If the EU do make no extension noises this weekend then I anticipate a stampede to pass the WAIB all of a sudden

    I don't believe it's at all dependent on threats from the EU any more.

    It may not be a stampede, but now the Tory party has coalesced behind a deal agreed with the EU I think it is inevitable. If only we could be sure of the timing (i.e. by the end of the year) I think the betting markets would be offering free money.
    The timing is Oct 31 without an extension. If MPs are really prepared to risk crashing out no deal it may go beyond, Halloween is strong favourite though
    I don’t think you realise what’s happened in the last week and the hole Boris is in.

    He surrendered to EU demands in order to avoid No Deal.

    He might have had a commons majority for a deal today, but it could just as easily unwind now in coming days, AND IF SO the only way out for Boris is 2nd ref.
    1. I don't consider he has surrendered at all. Both sides moved. That is what we call negotiation.

    2. He has not avoided No Deal. If the Deal has not been ratified by Parliament 31st October or whenever the very short EU extension runs out, it will still be either No Deal or Revoke

    I can't work out from your postings if you are a pissed of No Dealer or a desperately hopeful Remainer. But either way I think you are letting your own hatred of the del cloud your judgement.
    Personally, I'm pissed off with pretty much everyone at this point.

    I'm pissed off with BJ who has acted with greater arrogance than Ms May, and who basically lied to the DUP.

    I'm pissed off with game playing MPs (particularly Tory rebels and a Labour Leavers) who say they respect the referendum result, but don't really.

    I'm pissed off with the Spartans and the ERG, who turned down a perfectly sensible Leave.

    There's probably a few more people I'm pissed at.
    Go for a quick surf then and have a mojito at the Shutters
This discussion has been closed.