Woke up thinking there might be a resolution . Not sure what Johnson does now . The DUP press release isn’t just disagreeing on one thing it’s basically the two key issues of customs and consent with VAT thrown in for good measure.
I know you and I disagree violently about Brexit, but I honestly think this is “worse” than May’s deal.
Why the fuck did BJ agree to it? He must have known the DUP would tell him to stick it. Was he forced into trying it due to his paraphilia for 31st Oct?
Lols when the EU refuse an extension as no sort of deal can ever pass this parly.
Well, quite.
A much softer Brexit would cruise through. But first one Conservative Prime Minister sought to impose a hard Brexit and now a second has sought to impose a harder one.
The EU are at the point of wanting it done. No more extensions gets it done. With no risk of No Deal.
So, the EU refuse an extension then the DUP vote against - and there's no risk of No Deal? Can you explain that again?
Can’t the DUP just now admit they backed the wrong horse !
Brexit is incompatible with NI , no ifs or buts . The issue that was totally ignored during the EU ref campaign is now turning getting an agreement into the Da Vinci Code !
Not really. The EU summit agenda has 10 items, only one is Brexit, so plenty of time to manage other stuff and let the UK stew in its existential crisis.
On one side we have the Tories peddling an incoherent nationalism; I find it difficult to conceive of customs posts on our European 'borders; again. Feels weird! And on the other side why, how, has the Labour Party.... the party of the Brotherhood of Man...... got itself soured with anti-semitism. I can understand someone being anti-Israel, as I can someone someone being anti-Trump, but I can't understand opposition to individuals on religious/racial grounds.
The LibDems have got to do some very hard thinking about how they deal with all this. Just saying 'were not' won't be enough.
I know you and I disagree violently about Brexit, but I honestly think this is “worse” than May’s deal.
Why the fuck did BJ agree to it? He must have known the DUP would tell him to stick it. Was he forced into trying it due to his paraphilia for 31st Oct?
There is no deal that this parly can support - sure they could vote through some BINO but that would be a coalition of mongs who wouldn’t survive the GE that would happen soon after.
In all likelihood, the mean voter in the country “wants” a BINO.
Perhaps, but the Modal voter wants Remain, and therein lies the problem.
It is going to be very tough for Johnson to pin the blame for a No Deal on the EU from here. Someone who had the best for his country front and centre would now be looking at a Brexit that could win over Labour MPs itching to vote for a deal.
The DUP are totally screwed if their actions cause a no deal . As for Johnson well hard to go into EU blame mood when it’s the DUP that have pulled the plug .
I know you and I disagree violently about Brexit, but I honestly think this is “worse” than May’s deal.
Why the fuck did BJ agree to it? He must have known the DUP would tell him to stick it. Was he forced into trying it due to his paraphilia for 31st Oct?
Mostly Negotiation 101. I've never bought a car or sold sugar to a supermarket, but it's pretty obvious that if A has a hard deadline to make a deal and B doesn't, A is going to be making all the compromises. (That fair, final compromise offer thing seems like an eternity ago- was it two weeks?) That, and what happens if you are involved in a long fiddly text (which in a different context, I have). People tend to get so engrossed in the details, the joy of untangling little bits, that you forget to keep track of the big picture. So you don't notice that your creation isn't going to get off the ground. Put those two together, and of course Downing Street wants to get approval for its plan quickly. They just want something, anything, with Brexit on the label. Equally, they shouldn't be allowed to.
The DUP are totally screwed if their actions cause a no deal . As for Johnson well hard to go into EU blame mood when it’s the DUP that have pulled the plug .
There will be no no deal.
This painful process is simply the UK trying to find a majority in Parliament for a deal —- and we are learning this morning if we hadn’t realised already — that this likely requires an election.
The Tories are doing incredibly well in the polls, and Labour incredibly badly, so a deal is really just one general election away.
The DUP are totally screwed if their actions cause a no deal . As for Johnson well hard to go into EU blame mood when it’s the DUP that have pulled the plug .
There will be no no deal.
This painful process is simply the UK trying to find a majority in Parliament for a deal —- and we are learning this morning if we hadn’t realised already — that this likely requires an election.
The Tories are doing incredibly well in the polls, and Labour incredibly badly, so a deal is really just one general election away.
Well fine then . I think Johnson needs to drop his stupid pledge and ask for an extension to hold that election, , he can just blame the DUP.
The DUP are totally screwed if their actions cause a no deal . As for Johnson well hard to go into EU blame mood when it’s the DUP that have pulled the plug .
There will be no no deal.
This painful process is simply the UK trying to find a majority in Parliament for a deal —- and we are learning this morning if we hadn’t realised already — that this likely requires an election.
The Tories are doing incredibly well in the polls, and Labour incredibly badly, so a deal is really just one general election away.
Well things are very volatile. If BoZo's Surrender Deal collapses then the GE occurs either post No Deal or Bozo asks for an extension. Either is likely to shift the polls.
The DUP are totally screwed if their actions cause a no deal . As for Johnson well hard to go into EU blame mood when it’s the DUP that have pulled the plug .
That’s one spin way of looking at it. Not the truth though.
Surely if the DUP can’t accept it, the balls in EU court to budge and compromise a little bit more to get it over the line? EU swanning around around with “its all but there, just a London problem” it’s for the EU to make a move if they are deal makers?
The DUP are totally screwed if their actions cause a no deal . As for Johnson well hard to go into EU blame mood when it’s the DUP that have pulled the plug .
That’s one spin way of looking at it. Not the truth though.
Surely if the DUP can’t accept it, the balls in EU court to budge and compromise a little bit more to get it over the line? EU swanning around around with “its all but there, just a London problem” it’s for the EU to make a move if they are deal makers?
They’ve now made two deals, only to see each of them then trashed by their counterparty.
It just needs one EU head of state to say "E-fucking-nough. No more extensions. Let's end this shit show...." and that one means it becomes the EU agreed position. No more extensions. The deal is what the deal is at that point. And the DUP have massively overplayed their hand.
Lols when the EU refuse an extension as no sort of deal can ever pass this parly.
Well, quite.
A much softer Brexit would cruise through. But first one Conservative Prime Minister sought to impose a hard Brexit and now a second has sought to impose a harder one.
That's not true. Those who might vote for a soft Brexit supposedly actually don't want any Brexit at all - and certainly will never vote for anything Tory.
The DUP are totally screwed if their actions cause a no deal . As for Johnson well hard to go into EU blame mood when it’s the DUP that have pulled the plug .
That’s one spin way of looking at it. Not the truth though.
Surely if the DUP can’t accept it, the balls in EU court to budge and compromise a little bit more to get it over the line? EU swanning around around with “its all but there, just a London problem” it’s for the EU to make a move if they are deal makers?
Not sure they can do much more . The problem is movement that might bring the DUP on board could in turn cause others to say no . I think it’s clear that an election is needed. The DUP fucked May and now they’re going to fuck Johnson .
MarqueeMark: I still think that when it gets down to it the EU, mostly for financial reasons, don`t want us to leave.
We are leaving. If not now, when a party pledged to departing gets a Parliamentary majority. And that could be within months. The UK leaving isn't going away. They can read the polls. And they have a chance to make us depart on their terms, not on No Deal. And a UK PM who wants that deal too. Now.
I continue to be amazed that people don't see how this will play out.....
Lols when the EU refuse an extension as no sort of deal can ever pass this parly.
Well, quite.
A much softer Brexit would cruise through. But first one Conservative Prime Minister sought to impose a hard Brexit and now a second has sought to impose a harder one.
That's not true. Those who might vote for a soft Brexit supposedly actually don't want any Brexit at all - and certainly will never vote for anything Tory.
Those who want Brexit want what you call hard.
I’d have been quite happy with either May’s deal or EEA - in many respects, happier than with full EU membership - and I voted Remain in 2016 and Tory in 2017.
The DUP are totally screwed if their actions cause a no deal . As for Johnson well hard to go into EU blame mood when it’s the DUP that have pulled the plug .
That’s one spin way of looking at it. Not the truth though.
Surely if the DUP can’t accept it, the balls in EU court to budge and compromise a little bit more to get it over the line? EU swanning around around with “its all but there, just a London problem” it’s for the EU to make a move if they are deal makers?
Not sure they can do much more . The problem is movement that might bring the DUP on board could in turn cause others to say no . I think it’s clear that an election is needed. The DUP fucked May and now they’re going to fuck Johnson .
The DUP has been the only consistent group in this saga.
Lols when the EU refuse an extension as no sort of deal can ever pass this parly.
Well, quite.
A much softer Brexit would cruise through. But first one Conservative Prime Minister sought to impose a hard Brexit and now a second has sought to impose a harder one.
That's not true. Those who might vote for a soft Brexit supposedly actually don't want any Brexit at all - and certainly will never vote for anything Tory.
Those who want Brexit want what you call hard.
I’d have been quite happy with either May’s deal or EEA - in many respects, happier than with full EU membership - and I voted Remain in 2016 and Tory in 2017.
Philip,
I don't know how to break it to you but May's deal is better than this one.
It kept Northern Ireland within the UK for starters.
The DUP are totally screwed if their actions cause a no deal . As for Johnson well hard to go into EU blame mood when it’s the DUP that have pulled the plug .
That’s one spin way of looking at it. Not the truth though.
Surely if the DUP can’t accept it, the balls in EU court to budge and compromise a little bit more to get it over the line? EU swanning around around with “its all but there, just a London problem” it’s for the EU to make a move if they are deal makers?
There is nothing requiring the EU to budge one milimetre. They see a UK Parliament that has legislated against No Deal. If they allow an election, that might change.
They have the current set of MPs by the balls, after they willingly put them in a vice and tightened.
Lols when the EU refuse an extension as no sort of deal can ever pass this parly.
Well, quite.
A much softer Brexit would cruise through. But first one Conservative Prime Minister sought to impose a hard Brexit and now a second has sought to impose a harder one.
That's not true. Those who might vote for a soft Brexit supposedly actually don't want any Brexit at all - and certainly will never vote for anything Tory.
Those who want Brexit want what you call hard.
I’d have been quite happy with either May’s deal or EEA - in many respects, happier than with full EU membership - and I voted Remain in 2016 and Tory in 2017.
Philip,
I don't know how to break it to you but May's deal is better than this one.
It kept Northern Ireland within the UK for starters.
But it also effectively kept the UK in the EU for starters.
Lols when the EU refuse an extension as no sort of deal can ever pass this parly.
Well, quite.
A much softer Brexit would cruise through. But first one Conservative Prime Minister sought to impose a hard Brexit and now a second has sought to impose a harder one.
A much softer Brexit backed by the government would. An MV on one failed, you will recall.
Lols when the EU refuse an extension as no sort of deal can ever pass this parly.
Well, quite.
A much softer Brexit would cruise through. But first one Conservative Prime Minister sought to impose a hard Brexit and now a second has sought to impose a harder one.
That's not true. Those who might vote for a soft Brexit supposedly actually don't want any Brexit at all - and certainly will never vote for anything Tory.
Those who want Brexit want what you call hard.
Maybe a matter of tense. Soft Brexit would have cruised through if governments including May and Johnson, who was part of May's government, had prioritised a consensus Brexit outcome over partisan manouevres.
Good morning, Can someone tell me: is Ellman to sit as an independent or is she no longer an MP?
She's still an MP. Hasn't announced whether she'll join someone else or sit as an independent.
It's a curiosity that FPTP, which normally makes it impossible for independents to win, has generated a Parliament with no fewer than 41 people out of 650 who are no longer in the parties for which they were elected.
At a personal level, I was surprised to learn a few months ago that I'm Jewish myself - an elderly relative got in touch and told me that my mother's parents were, and traditionally it goes through the mother's line. My mum was profoundly uninterested in religion or tradition and never mentioned it, though she was very fond of Israel because of her work for refugees. It was sort of in her memory that I joined and ended up on the national executive of Labour Friends of Israel, supposedly as the only non-Jewish member.
For what it's worth, I entirely disagree with Louise, and think that the party is more, not less, on top of anti-semitism than when she stood for it in 2017. But I've never got worked up about people switching parties either way - we've all got a right to our opinions, and they evolve.
The DUP are totally screwed if their actions cause a no deal . As for Johnson well hard to go into EU blame mood when it’s the DUP that have pulled the plug .
That’s one spin way of looking at it. Not the truth though.
Surely if the DUP can’t accept it, the balls in EU court to budge and compromise a little bit more to get it over the line? EU swanning around around with “its all but there, just a London problem” it’s for the EU to make a move if they are deal makers?
There is nothing requiring the EU to budge one milimetre. They see a UK Parliament that has legislated against No Deal. If they allow an election, that might change.
They have the current set of MPs by the balls, after they willingly put them in a vice and tightened.
I think the EU are getting mightily fed up with it all now, and are trying to force Parliament into a deal/no-deal/revoke scenario with no more can-kicking. No-deal would be the default, if Parliament can’t agree in the next week what should happen.
MarqueeMark said: "We are leaving. If not now, when a party pledged to departing gets a Parliamentary majority. And that could be within months. The UK leaving isn't going away. They can read the polls. And they have a chance to make us depart on their terms, not on No Deal. And a UK PM who wants that deal too. Now."
The GE may not be until 2022. The timing is in the gift of the opposition (due to FTPA). A lot can happen between then and now. The polls show that the majority is now for remain.
Lols when the EU refuse an extension as no sort of deal can ever pass this parly.
Well, quite.
A much softer Brexit would cruise through. But first one Conservative Prime Minister sought to impose a hard Brexit and now a second has sought to impose a harder one.
That's not true. Those who might vote for a soft Brexit supposedly actually don't want any Brexit at all - and certainly will never vote for anything Tory.
Those who want Brexit want what you call hard.
I’d have been quite happy with either May’s deal or EEA - in many respects, happier than with full EU membership - and I voted Remain in 2016 and Tory in 2017.
Philip,
I don't know how to break it to you but May's deal is better than this one.
It kept Northern Ireland within the UK for starters.
But it also effectively kept the UK in the EU for starters.
It got us out of the CFP, CAP, the ECJ, the Commission, the Parliament, the ECB and most of the other political rubbish while giving us what amounted to free trade.
MarqueeMark said: "We are leaving. If not now, when a party pledged to departing gets a Parliamentary majority. And that could be within months. The UK leaving isn't going away. They can read the polls. And they have a chance to make us depart on their terms, not on No Deal. And a UK PM who wants that deal too. Now."
The GE may not be until 2022. The timing is in the gift of the opposition (due to FTPA). A lot can happen between then and now. The polls show that the majority is now for remain.
The polls show that the Conservatives can get a majority without the DUP. And if so, Brexit ain't going away.
That is the reality the EU are looking at. Especially the new Commission, who really, really do not want Brexit still festering when they take office.
Lols when the EU refuse an extension as no sort of deal can ever pass this parly.
Well, quite.
A much softer Brexit would cruise through. But first one Conservative Prime Minister sought to impose a hard Brexit and now a second has sought to impose a harder one.
A much softer Brexit backed by the government would. An MV on one failed, you will recall.
If a tenth of the Parliamentary time had been spent investigating softer Brexits that has been spent indulging the headbangers, Britain would long ago have moved to the next stage of this fiasco.
Johnson won’t take kindly to being upstaged by Foster on his big day . I wonder what Cummings has in store .
Very hard for Bozo to pull the plug now as the ERG have been all over the press saying how good the deal looked and trying to blame the EU isn’t going to wash as the DUP are the ones that scuppered it.
Lols when the EU refuse an extension as no sort of deal can ever pass this parly.
Well, quite.
A much softer Brexit would cruise through. But first one Conservative Prime Minister sought to impose a hard Brexit and now a second has sought to impose a harder one.
A much softer Brexit backed by the government would. An MV on one failed, you will recall.
If a tenth of the Parliamentary time had been spent investigating softer Brexits that has been spent indulging the headbangers, Britain would long ago have moved to the next stage of this fiasco.
I completely agree; but it is the government (most of the time) who are in charge of the Parliamentary timetable.
Good morning, Can someone tell me: is Ellman to sit as an independent or is she no longer an MP?
She's still an MP. Hasn't announced whether she'll join someone else or sit as an independent.
It's a curiosity that FPTP, which normally makes it impossible for independents to win, has generated a Parliament with no fewer than 41 people out of 650 who are no longer in the parties for which they were elected.
At a personal level, I was surprised to learn a few months ago that I'm Jewish myself - an elderly relative got in touch and told me that my mother's parents were, and traditionally it goes through the mother's line. My mum was profoundly uninterested in religion or tradition and never mentioned it, though she was very fond of Israel because of her work for refugees. It was sort of in her memory that I joined and ended up on the national executive of Labour Friends of Israel, supposedly as the only non-Jewish member.
For what it's worth, I entirely disagree with Louise, and think that the party is more, not less, on top of anti-semitism than when she stood for it in 2017. But I've never got worked up about people switching parties either way - we've all got a right to our opinions, and they evolve.
It says in her letter that she is not joining another party, so she should be regarded as Independent Labour as far as voting goes.
She is the mirror image of Sandbach, threatened with deselection as insufficiently in the cult of the leader.
Lols when the EU refuse an extension as no sort of deal can ever pass this parly.
Well, quite.
A much softer Brexit would cruise through. But first one Conservative Prime Minister sought to impose a hard Brexit and now a second has sought to impose a harder one.
That's not true. Those who might vote for a soft Brexit supposedly actually don't want any Brexit at all - and certainly will never vote for anything Tory.
Those who want Brexit want what you call hard.
I’d have been quite happy with either May’s deal or EEA - in many respects, happier than with full EU membership - and I voted Remain in 2016 and Tory in 2017.
Philip,
I don't know how to break it to you but May's deal is better than this one.
It kept Northern Ireland within the UK for starters.
But it also effectively kept the UK in the EU for starters.
It got us out of the CFP, CAP, the ECJ, the Commission, the Parliament, the ECB and most of the other political rubbish while giving us what amounted to free trade.
Lols when the EU refuse an extension as no sort of deal can ever pass this parly.
Well, quite.
A much softer Brexit would cruise through. But first one Conservative Prime Minister sought to impose a hard Brexit and now a second has sought to impose a harder one.
A much softer Brexit backed by the government would. An MV on one failed, you will recall.
If a tenth of the Parliamentary time had been spent investigating softer Brexits that has been spent indulging the headbangers, Britain would long ago have moved to the next stage of this fiasco.
True and even more bizarre why the DUP were too stupid to realize that getting into bed with the ERG would end in tears . They should have pushed for a soft Brextit from that start .
I know you and I disagree violently about Brexit, but I honestly think this is “worse” than May’s deal.
Why the fuck did BJ agree to it? He must have known the DUP would tell him to stick it. Was he forced into trying it due to his paraphilia for 31st Oct?
I think he's in a better position than he would have been if he hadn't done any real negotiating. If he has a deal but the DUP vote it down he can probably run on "give me a majority to pass my deal and get brexit done", which is a little bit less attractive than his previous whichever-of-deal-and-no-deal-the-voter-prefers position, but still potentially a winner. And he's now close enough to get some cover for requesting the inevitable extension, which previously would have been terrible.
At the same time by getting off the no-deal track he has a decent chance of getting back the MPs he rather carelessly gave away. That's much better than having them on the opposite side, and potentially doing a GNU and passing a deal with a referendum, which would have been terrible for him.
I suppose the Deal goes through either now, or a bit later after a technical extension, or a bit later still after a Con win in a GE. Whatever - it's going through.
This being the Deal that was the EU's first preference from the outset. The Deal that we could have signed up to ages ago.
So the net impact of all of the crap from all of our politicians over the last two years is essentially that May lost her job and Johnson got it. Result.
Lols when the EU refuse an extension as no sort of deal can ever pass this parly.
Well, quite.
A much softer Brexit would cruise through. But first one Conservative Prime Minister sought to impose a hard Brexit and now a second has sought to impose a harder one.
That's not true. Those who might vote for a soft Brexit supposedly actually don't want any Brexit at all - and certainly will never vote for anything Tory.
Those who want Brexit want what you call hard.
I’d have been quite happy with either May’s deal or EEA - in many respects, happier than with full EU membership - and I voted Remain in 2016 and Tory in 2017.
Philip,
I don't know how to break it to you but May's deal is better than this one.
It kept Northern Ireland within the UK for starters.
But it also effectively kept the UK in the EU for starters.
No it effectively kept us in the customs union without the need to pay the stupid amounts other countries pay for the same access.
Instead we leave the EU which means we probably wave goodbye to Nissan and other exporting companies over the next few years (via deaths by a thousand cuts) while we willingly split the country up in an attempt to get a deal.
That's not to say that leaving without a deal is any better as we would be back in the same situation within weeks but it does show how badly everyone in the UK has played their hands.
Hmmmm. I suppose it’s only rational for the DUP to squeeze everything they can out of this. If we ever leave, we should subcontract all international negotiations to them.
For this parliament anyway. They are going to be so mad when they no longer have such power - one thing they love more than the union is the influence this parliament affords them.
it fair warms the cockles of my heart to think of the wee sad faces of those types who only weeks ago were declaiming piously about the inviolability of UK sovereignty and then seamlessly transitioned to chucking the DUP under the bus for a deal.
Referring to our Prime Minister as "Johnson" on Newsnight sounds pointed - and petty. I wonder if they would refer to the popular singer "Ciccone" and not thought to be a wanker?
People moaning about him being called Boris is tiresome, and generally pretty insulting to the public for the supposed benefits it grants him, but I don't know that objecting to him being called by his last name is that different.
I think you'd be naive to think it doesn't grant him benefits - he wouldn't have cultivated it otherwise. He is a politician who puts more effort into a carefully constructed fake persona than any other front rank UK politician. It's not even his bloody name!
I dont buy it. I generally call him Boris and I think hes an absolute arsehole, whatever cuddly persona he had or has doesnt mean people are more disposed to him if a pundit says Boris rather than Boris Johnson or just Johnson. How stupid are people supposed to be?
Er, have you met a lot of people?
Not really. But I dont think there is any appreciable benefit to Boris by being called Boris. He has branded himself effectively as Boris, but that doesnt mean the brand works for everyone .
In fairness, no to AV's strategy of 'you are too stupid to understand AV' worked, so telling people they are dumb can work.
I think being known by his first name (actually his second name, but you know what I mean) is an advantage. Who do we tend to call by their first name? Friends and family, people we are close to. It creates a sense of familiarity and informality. He is not an idiot, this is not an accident. He has a very cleverly constructed public persona, and it is more or less completely fake. Personally, I don't call people by their first name unless I know them. I just think it's fucking weird to call him Boris. He's not my mate.
Maybe its weird but the informality if it doesnt mean people back him at the ballot box. If that gives him electoral advantage then there is no hope for humanity because apparently we have the brains of a cuttlefish.
Good morning, Can someone tell me: is Ellman to sit as an independent or is she no longer an MP?
She's still an MP. Hasn't announced whether she'll join someone else or sit as an independent.
It's a curiosity that FPTP, which normally makes it impossible for independents to win, has generated a Parliament with no fewer than 41 people out of 650 who are no longer in the parties for which they were elected.
At a personal level, I was surprised to learn a few months ago that I'm Jewish myself - an elderly relative got in touch and told me that my mother's parents were, and traditionally it goes through the mother's line. My mum was profoundly uninterested in religion or tradition and never mentioned it, though she was very fond of Israel because of her work for refugees. It was sort of in her memory that I joined and ended up on the national executive of Labour Friends of Israel, supposedly as the only non-Jewish member.
For what it's worth, I entirely disagree with Louise, and think that the party is more, not less, on top of anti-semitism than when she stood for it in 2017. But I've never got worked up about people switching parties either way - we've all got a right to our opinions, and they evolve.
It says in her letter that she is not joining another party, so she should be regarded as Independent Labour as far as voting goes.
She is the mirror image of Sandbach, threatened with deselection as insufficiently in the cult of the leader.
Sandbach wasn’t targeted because she is Jewish, though.
So much for 'DUP would be crazy to turn this down' .
So it's a GE, at some point, with BoJo pushing his deal hoping he gets enough mps that he doesnt need the DUP.
BoJo selling a deal in a GE is far harder for him than BoJo pushing for a deal with a No Deal threat.
All unicorn Brexit deals will be lost resulting in a core Brexit vote that Boris won't be able to access.
Mind you at least people when voting will understand that this will be the last general election in the UK. The next one will be England and Wales alone.
Lols when the EU refuse an extension as no sort of deal can ever pass this parly.
Well, quite.
A much softer Brexit would cruise through. But first one Conservative Prime Minister sought to impose a hard Brexit and now a second has sought to impose a harder one.
That's not true. Those who might vote for a soft Brexit supposedly actually don't want any Brexit at all - and certainly will never vote for anything Tory.
Those who want Brexit want what you call hard.
I’d have been quite happy with either May’s deal or EEA - in many respects, happier than with full EU membership - and I voted Remain in 2016 and Tory in 2017.
Philip,
I don't know how to break it to you but May's deal is better than this one.
It kept Northern Ireland within the UK for starters.
But it also effectively kept the UK in the EU for starters.
It got us out of the CFP, CAP, the ECJ, the Commission, the Parliament, the ECB and most of the other political rubbish while giving us what amounted to free trade.
What more did you want?
A deal that didn't reward the EU in the FTA for negotiating in bad faith?
It's always the women because they are the easy target. There is an underlying assumption in the left, and especially the hard left, that they cannot be racist/sexist etc "because they are of the left". this is where the antisemitism comes from.
once you get to the point where you don't notice that you are being antisemitic it's not much of a stretch to start applying other underlying prejudices. The most common of this is misogyny.
SouthamObserver said "You’ve got to hand it to Johnson ..."
He`s taken the decision to sacrifice Union to some extent and prioritise Brexit. The country would never have voted the way it did in the referendum if we had known this was a possibility.
Jonathan Powell said that leaving the EU was logically and therefore legally inconsistent with the Good Friday Agreement. But I think he pointed this out after the referendum.
So much for 'DUP would be crazy to turn this down' .
So it's a GE, at some point, with BoJo pushing his deal hoping he gets enough mps that he doesnt need the DUP.
Except that the harder Boris pushes the deal, the more space he leaves for Nigel to quote the more surrendery bits of the deal at him. Unfair? Maybe a little bit.
SouthamObserver said "You’ve got to hand it to Johnson ..."
He`s taken the decision to sacrifice Union to some extent and prioritise Brexit. The country would never have voted the way it did in the referendum if we had known this was a possibility.
Jonathan Powell said that leaving the EU was logically and therefore legally inconsistent with the Good Friday Agreement. But I think he pointed this out after the referendum.
You really think Brexit voters care that much for the customs union with Northern Ireland?
Lols when the EU refuse an extension as no sort of deal can ever pass this parly.
Well, quite.
A much softer Brexit would cruise through. But first one Conservative Prime Minister sought to impose a hard Brexit and now a second has sought to impose a harder one.
The EU are at the point of wanting it done. No more extensions gets it done. With no risk of No Deal.
So, the EU refuse an extension then the DUP vote against - and there's no risk of No Deal? Can you explain that again?
There will be too many MP's cacking their pants over No Deal that vote will be won without the DUP. They will end up out on their arses and no need to pay the bribes either.
Hard to know where Boris goes now plan a b c d e f etc have failed. Maybe he will reverse ferret a second ref?
It is the obvious thing to do. A government backed referendum deal will pass with a higher probability than any other path. They could even try and make it purely confirmatory (i.e. pass deal or extend - no remain option). Why dont they do it?
Good morning, Can someone tell me: is Ellman to sit as an independent or is she no longer an MP?
She's still an MP. Hasn't announced whether she'll join someone else or sit as an independent.
It's a curiosity that FPTP, which normally makes it impossible for independents to win, has generated a Parliament with no fewer than 41 people out of 650 who are no longer in the parties for which they were elected.
At a personal level, I was surprised to learn a few months ago that I'm Jewish myself - an elderly relative got in touch and told me that my mother's parents were, and traditionally it goes through the mother's line. My mum was profoundly uninterested in religion or tradition and never mentioned it, though she was very fond of Israel because of her work for refugees. It was sort of in her memory that I joined and ended up on the national executive of Labour Friends of Israel, supposedly as the only non-Jewish member.
For what it's worth, I entirely disagree with Louise, and think that the party is more, not less, on top of anti-semitism than when she stood for it in 2017. But I've never got worked up about people switching parties either way - we've all got a right to our opinions, and they evolve.
It says in her letter that she is not joining another party, so she should be regarded as Independent Labour as far as voting goes.
She is the mirror image of Sandbach, threatened with deselection as insufficiently in the cult of the leader.
Sandbach wasn’t targeted because she is Jewish, though.
I am very surprised that Foxy could even compare the two.
tig86 said: "You really think Brexit voters care that much for the customs union with Northern Ireland?"
Not that level of detail, but I think that sufficient care about the union in general to have moved the ref result the other way. Same can be said for the "divorce payment".
Johnson won’t take kindly to being upstaged by Foster on his big day . I wonder what Cummings has in store .
Very hard for Bozo to pull the plug now as the ERG have been all over the press saying how good the deal looked and trying to blame the EU isn’t going to wash as the DUP are the ones that scuppered it.
Bit of both. The EU did not move enough to enable our dear friends in the DUP to feel comfortable with this, alas.
If I were the EU I'd not agree it now since it wont pass, and if BoJo does win an election he will probably seek further changes as he can pass it easier. Extension ahoy.
If there is a vote then without the DUP I think it gets to around 300 as a maximum.
So much for 'DUP would be crazy to turn this down' .
So it's a GE, at some point, with BoJo pushing his deal hoping he gets enough mps that he doesnt need the DUP.
Except that the harder Boris pushes the deal, the more space he leaves for Nigel to quote the more surrendery bits of the deal at him. Unfair? Maybe a little bit.
Farage might also quote 536 categorical statements by Johnson that Brexit would happen on 31 October.
Comments
Woke up thinking there might be a resolution . Not sure what Johnson does now . The DUP press release isn’t just disagreeing on one thing it’s basically the two key issues of customs and consent with VAT thrown in for good measure.
...Right back where we started from...
https://twitter.com/lucianaberger/status/1184592134537666564?s=21
https://twitter.com/bbckatyaadler/status/1184715916745105408?s=21
Brexit is incompatible with NI , no ifs or buts . The issue that was totally ignored during the EU ref campaign is now turning getting an agreement into the Da Vinci Code !
And on the other side why, how, has the Labour Party.... the party of the Brotherhood of Man...... got itself soured with anti-semitism. I can understand someone being anti-Israel, as I can someone someone being anti-Trump, but I can't understand opposition to individuals on religious/racial grounds.
The LibDems have got to do some very hard thinking about how they deal with all this. Just saying 'were not' won't be enough.
https://twitter.com/anthonyjwells/status/1184393436037832706?s=19
https://twitter.com/hollyjocollins/status/1184713537232556032?s=21
That, and what happens if you are involved in a long fiddly text (which in a different context, I have). People tend to get so engrossed in the details, the joy of untangling little bits, that you forget to keep track of the big picture. So you don't notice that your creation isn't going to get off the ground.
Put those two together, and of course Downing Street wants to get approval for its plan quickly. They just want something, anything, with Brexit on the label. Equally, they shouldn't be allowed to.
This painful process is simply the UK trying to find a majority in Parliament for a deal —- and we are learning this morning if we hadn’t realised already — that this likely requires an election.
The Tories are doing incredibly well in the polls, and Labour incredibly badly, so a deal is really just one general election away.
Surely if the DUP can’t accept it, the balls in EU court to budge and compromise a little bit more to get it over the line? EU swanning around around with “its all but there, just a London problem” it’s for the EU to make a move if they are deal makers?
Step forward Macron.......
Those who want Brexit want what you call hard.
I continue to be amazed that people don't see how this will play out.....
I don't know how to break it to you but May's deal is better than this one.
It kept Northern Ireland within the UK for starters.
They have the current set of MPs by the balls, after they willingly put them in a vice and tightened.
It's a curiosity that FPTP, which normally makes it impossible for independents to win, has generated a Parliament with no fewer than 41 people out of 650 who are no longer in the parties for which they were elected.
At a personal level, I was surprised to learn a few months ago that I'm Jewish myself - an elderly relative got in touch and told me that my mother's parents were, and traditionally it goes through the mother's line. My mum was profoundly uninterested in religion or tradition and never mentioned it, though she was very fond of Israel because of her work for refugees. It was sort of in her memory that I joined and ended up on the national executive of Labour Friends of Israel, supposedly as the only non-Jewish member.
For what it's worth, I entirely disagree with Louise, and think that the party is more, not less, on top of anti-semitism than when she stood for it in 2017. But I've never got worked up about people switching parties either way - we've all got a right to our opinions, and they evolve.
The GE may not be until 2022. The timing is in the gift of the opposition (due to FTPA). A lot can happen between then and now. The polls show that the majority is now for remain.
It was conceived as such and delivered as such.
What more did you want?
That is the reality the EU are looking at. Especially the new Commission, who really, really do not want Brexit still festering when they take office.
Very hard for Bozo to pull the plug now as the ERG have been all over the press saying how good the deal looked and trying to blame the EU isn’t going to wash as the DUP are the ones that scuppered it.
She is the mirror image of Sandbach, threatened with deselection as insufficiently in the cult of the leader.
At the same time by getting off the no-deal track he has a decent chance of getting back the MPs he rather carelessly gave away. That's much better than having them on the opposite side, and potentially doing a GNU and passing a deal with a referendum, which would have been terrible for him.
This being the Deal that was the EU's first preference from the outset. The Deal that we could have signed up to ages ago.
So the net impact of all of the crap from all of our politicians over the last two years is essentially that May lost her job and Johnson got it. Result.
So it's a GE, at some point, with BoJo pushing his deal hoping he gets enough mps that he doesnt need the DUP.
Instead we leave the EU which means we probably wave goodbye to Nissan and other exporting companies over the next few years (via deaths by a thousand cuts) while we willingly split the country up in an attempt to get a deal.
That's not to say that leaving without a deal is any better as we would be back in the same situation within weeks but it does show how badly everyone in the UK has played their hands.
I don`t think Corbyn would be challenged prior to a GE, but I think he may resign prior to a GE.
https://twitter.com/bbckatyaadler/status/1184720687849758721?s=21
Have a good morning.
Life
Karma
The DUP
it fair warms the cockles of my heart to think of the wee sad faces of those types who only weeks ago were declaiming piously about the inviolability of UK sovereignty and then seamlessly transitioned to chucking the DUP under the bus for a deal.
All unicorn Brexit deals will be lost resulting in a core Brexit vote that Boris won't be able to access.
Mind you at least people when voting will understand that this will be the last general election in the UK. The next one will be England and Wales alone.
Toby Young has been KNOCKED OUT !! - beaten by Julia Hartley-Brewer.
It's like losing Brazil.
Again.
It's always the women because they are the easy target. There is an underlying assumption in the left, and especially the hard left, that they cannot be racist/sexist etc "because they are of the left". this is where the antisemitism comes from.
once you get to the point where you don't notice that you are being antisemitic it's not much of a stretch to start applying other underlying prejudices. The most common of this is misogyny.
He`s taken the decision to sacrifice Union to some extent and prioritise Brexit. The country would never have voted the way it did in the referendum if we had known this was a possibility.
Jonathan Powell said that leaving the EU was logically and therefore legally inconsistent with the Good Friday Agreement. But I think he pointed this out after the referendum.
Just as well Rod Liddle isn`t on twitter.
It verges on endorsing labours anti semitism
Not that level of detail, but I think that sufficient care about the union in general to have moved the ref result the other way. Same can be said for the "divorce payment".
If I were the EU I'd not agree it now since it wont pass, and if BoJo does win an election he will probably seek further changes as he can pass it easier. Extension ahoy.
If there is a vote then without the DUP I think it gets to around 300 as a maximum.
Yes, also a heavyweight arsehole.
If Toby is Brazil, Rod would be Germany.