Lib Dems considering support for Dominic Grieve in the next GE may care to reflect on his versatility when adhering to the manifesto on which he stands.
He was a fine AG and is clearly one of the cleverest MPs in parliament. However, when you stand at a GE and are filmed saying Brexit must be done when there was clearly never any intention of respecting the verdict...and worse, he then was instrumental in trying to overturn the result then it is a very poor show.
He is the epitome of what the public despise about the establishment class and so Grieve's political career being finished off will be one of the highlights of the next GE.
This shows why there cannot be a GNU. It's a Labour minority government or the current Conservative minority government. If the LibDems want to block Brexit then Jo Swinson needs to stop posturing and get her wisdom teeth looked at.
Otherwise it is like going to the Supreme Court to overturn prorogation and recall parliament for ... what, exactly?
...I am looking forward to a UK-wide, and UK-focused industrial strategy, to reinvigorating our trading relationships with former close friends, like sadly neglected New Zealand, and forging relationships with totally new and unexpected ones.
I'm looking forward to eating more fish caught by British (particularly Scottish) fishermen, and to the SNP tying itself in knots telling us we should give power over a burgeoning British growth industy back to Brussels. I'm looking forward to British consumers being aware, and proud, as we have not been for decades, not just of produce and manufactured goods produced locally, but those produced across our country, selected for quality, but also out of the same enlightened self-interest which drives French, German and Italian citizens, often to choose to wear, eat, drink, experience, and even drive, the best from their own countries.
I could go on and on and on and on, but dinner is calling!
A noble aspiration. But the problem is not what you choose to do, it's what you force other people to do. Loyalty and patriotism are good things. Forced loyalty and patriotism...not so great.
Someone should have thought of that before they made millions of us EU citizens against our will.
This shows why there cannot be a GNU. It's a Labour minority government or the current Conservative minority government. If the LibDems want to block Brexit then Jo Swinson needs to stop posturing and get her wisdom teeth looked at.
Otherwise it is like going to the Supreme Court to overturn prorogation and recall parliament for ... what, exactly?
I think the sequence of events is much more likely to be
1 Extension agreed 2 Parliament legislates for second referendum 3 Referendum held in the first half of 2020
What sort of numbers breakdown are you working on there?
Numbers of what? MPs?
Last week's PLP meeting saw calls for a referendum before an election from all sides. The smaller opposition parties are all on board as are some of the expelled Tories. If Johnson fails to take us out on 31 October I would expect more Tories to back ref2. It only lost by a small margin in the indicative votes, I think it almost certain that it will carry in the aftermath of the failure to do or die.
1. No deal negotiated with the EU (Benn Act made this certain) 2. Boris resigns at last possible moment 3. Corbyn fails to form a government 4. Remainer faction forms a government 5. Remainer factions extends 6. Corbyn withdraws confidence, Remainer faction falls 7. General Election called 8. Tories campaign on deal or no deal manifesto 9. Bunch of Tory deselections 10. Tories win 11. EU has backed itself into corner and can't compromise any further. 12. No deal
I think the sequence of events is much more likely to be
1 Extension agreed 2 Parliament legislates for second referendum 3 Referendum held in the first half of 2020
4 Remain wins after excluding a big chunk of Leave options 5 Leavers do not accept result as legitimate due to rigged question 6 Tories go into next election on Leave manifesto 7 Tories win majority 8 Brexit
Lib Dems considering support for Dominic Grieve in the next GE may care to reflect on his versatility when adhering to the manifesto on which he stands.
He was a fine AG and is clearly one of the cleverest MPs in parliament. However, when you stand at a GE and are filmed saying Brexit must be done when there was clearly never any intention of respecting the verdict...and worse, he then was instrumental in trying to overturn the result then it is a very poor show.
He is the epitome of what the public despise about the establishment class and so Grieve's political career being finished off will be one of the highlights of the next GE.
No... he may be the epitomy of what YOU despise, but I would rather have Grieve in govt than some of the empty suits that are currently "in charge"
I'm confused as to what happened to Big John Owls. His posts were absolutely going up. They were bonkers, but they were going up.
As to his point - that anyone who isn't Corbyn is a Tory - is LITERALLY the Corbyn project in a nutshell. That Corbyn and his Stalinists will attract 25% share at best doesn't matter as long as what they offer is the True Socialism. That way if not elected they can blame the traitors in the Labour Party and the Biased Media and the Stupid Voters and the Jews and the Capitalists etc etc.
Winning is irrelevant to them. Only smug self-righteous zealotry matters.
...I am looking forward to a UK-wide, and UK-focused industrial strategy, to reinvigorating our trading relationships with former close friends, like sadly neglected New Zealand, and forging relationships with totally new and unexpected ones.
I'm looking forward to eating more fish caught by British (particularly Scottish) fishermen, and to the SNP tying itself in knots telling us we should give power over a burgeoning British growth industy back to Brussels. I'm looking forward to British consumers being aware, and proud, as we have not been for decades, not just of produce and manufactured goods produced locally, but those produced across our country, selected for quality, but also out of the same enlightened self-interest which drives French, German and Italian citizens, often to choose to wear, eat, drink, experience, and even drive, the best from their own countries.
I could go on and on and on and on, but dinner is calling!
A noble aspiration. But the problem is not what you choose to do, it's what you force other people to do. Loyalty and patriotism are good things. Forced loyalty and patriotism...not so great.
Someone should have thought of that before they made millions of us EU citizens against our will.
Blimey that's a stretch as criticism of the UK's EU membership. "They gave me extra stuff".
Lib Dems considering support for Dominic Grieve in the next GE may care to reflect on his versatility when adhering to the manifesto on which he stands.
He was a fine AG and is clearly one of the cleverest MPs in parliament. However, when you stand at a GE and are filmed saying Brexit must be done when there was clearly never any intention of respecting the verdict...and worse, he then was instrumental in trying to overturn the result then it is a very poor show.
He is the epitome of what the public despise about the establishment class and so Grieve's political career being finished off will be one of the highlights of the next GE.
This clip appears to show people from these islands chanting in support of the IRA. I've no idea where it was shot, but for some reason a Twitter account attributes it to "Catholic Schools and sectarian bigotry."
I spent all my childhood in Catholic schools in Britain's hardcore Catholic working class heartland. I never heard anything - from fellow pupils, teachers or visiting priests - but condemnation of the IRA: a crowd of psychopathic killers.
But not obviously worse psychopaths than the murdering scum who claim to kill for Islam, but went to impeccably non-sectarian British state schools.
Bigotry doesn't need sectarian schools: it just needs bigots.
...I am looking forward to a UK-wide, and UK-focused industrial strategy, to reinvigorating our trading relationships with former close friends, like sadly neglected New Zealand, and forging relationships with totally new and unexpected ones.
I'm looking forward to eating more fish caught by British (particularly Scottish) fishermen, and to the SNP tying itself in knots telling us we should give power over a burgeoning British growth industy back to Brussels. I'm looking forward to British consumers being aware, and proud, as we have not been for decades, not just of produce and manufactured goods produced locally, but those produced across our country, selected for quality, but also out of the same enlightened self-interest which drives French, German and Italian citizens, often to choose to wear, eat, drink, experience, and even drive, the best from their own countries.
I could go on and on and on and on, but dinner is calling!
A noble aspiration. But the problem is not what you choose to do, it's what you force other people to do. Loyalty and patriotism are good things. Forced loyalty and patriotism...not so great.
Someone should have thought of that before they made millions of us EU citizens against our will.
So should those who want to strip me of my European citizenship from me , being a European citizen took nothing worth bothering about away from you and nobody has come up with a good reason why this is happening. You will never see any benefit from this madness because there is none
This shows why there cannot be a GNU. It's a Labour minority government or the current Conservative minority government. If the LibDems want to block Brexit then Jo Swinson needs to stop posturing and get her wisdom teeth looked at.
Otherwise it is like going to the Supreme Court to overturn prorogation and recall parliament for ... what, exactly?
Where do s it show that?
Look at the number of parties involved. Guestimate how many months the negotiations would take. Remember there are just three and a half weeks till hallowe'en.
1. No deal negotiated with the EU (Benn Act made this certain) 2. Boris resigns at last possible moment 3. Corbyn fails to form a government 4. Remainer faction forms a government 5. Remainer factions extends 6. Corbyn withdraws confidence, Remainer faction falls 7. General Election called 8. Tories campaign on deal or no deal manifesto 9. Bunch of Tory deselections 10. Tories win 11. EU has backed itself into corner and can't compromise any further. 12. No deal
I think the sequence of events is much more likely to be
1 Extension agreed 2 Parliament legislates for second referendum 3 Referendum held in the first half of 2020
4 Remain wins after excluding a big chunk of Leave options 5 Leavers do not accept result as legitimate due to rigged question 6 Tories go into next election on Leave manifesto 7 Tories win majority 8 Brexit
10 Sun turns red giant and engulfs the Earth 11 HYUFD predicts Tory landslide.
Lib Dems considering support for Dominic Grieve in the next GE may care to reflect on his versatility when adhering to the manifesto on which he stands.
He was a fine AG and is clearly one of the cleverest MPs in parliament. However, when you stand at a GE and are filmed saying Brexit must be done when there was clearly never any intention of respecting the verdict...and worse, he then was instrumental in trying to overturn the result then it is a very poor show.
He is the epitome of what the public despise about the establishment class and so Grieve's political career being finished off will be one of the highlights of the next GE.
No... he may be the epitomy of what YOU despise, but I would rather have Grieve in govt than some of the empty suits that are currently "in charge"
Presumably you'd rather have him in government because he's a fanatical remainer, rather than any other quality? By the way, I think it's epitome.
No... he may be the epitomy of what YOU despise, but I would rather have Grieve in govt than some of the empty suits that are currently "in charge"
If integrity in your political class isn't a priority for you then I can understand you not having an issue with the way Grieve has behaved.
And to be clear, if prior to the last election he had made his real feelings and intentions known...and then subsequently won the seat then I wouldn't have a problem at all.
This clip appears to show people from these islands chanting in support of the IRA. I've no idea where it was shot, but for some reason a Twitter account attributes it to "Catholic Schools and sectarian bigotry."
I spent all my childhood in Catholic schools in Britain's hardcore Catholic working class heartland. I never heard anything - from fellow pupils, teachers or visiting priests - but condemnation of the IRA: a crowd of psychopathic killers.
But not obviously worse psychopaths than the murdering scum who claim to kill for Islam, but went to impeccably non-sectarian British state schools.
Bigotry doesn't need sectarian schools: it just needs bigots.
Wash your ears out imo, or is this one of the blue dress/gold dress things?
I'm confused as to what happened to Big John Owls. His posts were absolutely going up. They were bonkers, but they were going up.
As to his point - that anyone who isn't Corbyn is a Tory - is LITERALLY the Corbyn project in a nutshell. That Corbyn and his Stalinists will attract 25% share at best doesn't matter as long as what they offer is the True Socialism. That way if not elected they can blame the traitors in the Labour Party and the Biased Media and the Stupid Voters and the Jews and the Capitalists etc etc.
Winning is irrelevant to them. Only smug self-righteous zealotry matters.
I’m not sure what happened but it appeared to be in the middle of a discourse between us did he do something earlier?
...I am looking forward to a UK-wide, and UK-focused industrial strategy, to reinvigorating our trading relationships with former close friends, like sadly neglected New Zealand, and forging relationships with totally new and unexpected ones.
I'm looking forward to eating more fish caught by British (particularly Scottish) fishermen, and to the SNP tying itself in knots telling us we should give power over a burgeoning British growth industy back to Brussels. I'm looking forward to British consumers being aware, and proud, as we have not been for decades, not just of produce and manufactured goods produced locally, but those produced across our country, selected for quality, but also out of the same enlightened self-interest which drives French, German and Italian citizens, often to choose to wear, eat, drink, experience, and even drive, the best from their own countries.
I could go on and on and on and on, but dinner is calling!
A noble aspiration. But the problem is not what you choose to do, it's what you force other people to do. Loyalty and patriotism are good things. Forced loyalty and patriotism...not so great.
Someone should have thought of that before they made millions of us EU citizens against our will.
Blimey that's a stretch as criticism of the UK's EU membership. "They gave me extra stuff".
Yes I mean how horrible giving us the freedom to travel, live and work in 27 other countries . It’s a shame the Leavers can’t just have their precious blue passports and leave us Remainers in peace to enjoy our freedoms as EU citizens .
I'm confused as to what happened to Big John Owls. His posts were absolutely going up. They were bonkers, but they were going up.
As to his point - that anyone who isn't Corbyn is a Tory - is LITERALLY the Corbyn project in a nutshell. That Corbyn and his Stalinists will attract 25% share at best doesn't matter as long as what they offer is the True Socialism. That way if not elected they can blame the traitors in the Labour Party and the Biased Media and the Stupid Voters and the Jews and the Capitalists etc etc.
Winning is irrelevant to them. Only smug self-righteous zealotry matters.
I’m not sure what happened but it appeared to be in the middle of a discourse between us did he do something earlier?
wasn't he somewhat disobliging about the leader of the LDs?
1. No deal negotiated with the EU (Benn Act made this certain) 2. Boris resigns at last possible moment 3. Corbyn fails to form a government 4. Remainer faction forms a government 5. Remainer factions extends 6. Corbyn withdraws confidence, Remainer faction falls 7. General Election called 8. Tories campaign on deal or no deal manifesto 9. Bunch of Tory deselections 10. Tories win 11. EU has backed itself into corner and can't compromise any further. 12. No deal
I think the sequence of events is much more likely to be
1 Extension agreed 2 Parliament legislates for second referendum 3 Referendum held in the first half of 2020
4 Remain wins after excluding a big chunk of Leave options 5 Leavers do not accept result as legitimate due to rigged question 6 Tories go into next election on Leave manifesto 7 Tories win majority 8 Brexit
10 Sun turns red giant and engulfs the Earth 11 HYUFD predicts Tory landslide.
He will always predict a landslide, or a points based system or a NI referendum about the backstop or that he will ‘lead the conservatives into honorable opposition’ or will sign the extension and still have a points based system to a referendum that allows him to win a parish council seat rather than the tory he lost to by two votes
...I am looking forward to a UK-wide, and UK-focused industrial strategy, to reinvigorating our trading relationships with former close friends, like sadly neglected New Zealand, and forging relationships with totally new and unexpected ones.
I'm looking forward to eating more fish caught by British (particularly Scottish) fishermen, and to the SNP tying itself in knots telling us we should give power over a burgeoning British growth industy back to Brussels. I'm looking forward to British consumers being aware, and proud, as we have not been for decades, not just of produce and manufactured goods produced locally, but those produced across our country, selected for quality, but also out of the same enlightened self-interest which drives French, German and Italian citizens, often to choose to wear, eat, drink, experience, and even drive, the best from their own countries.
I could go on and on and on and on, but dinner is calling!
A noble aspiration. But the problem is not what you choose to do, it's what you force other people to do. Loyalty and patriotism are good things. Forced loyalty and patriotism...not so great.
Someone should have thought of that before they made millions of us EU citizens against our will.
Lib Dems considering support for Dominic Grieve in the next GE may care to reflect on his versatility when adhering to the manifesto on which he stands.
He was a fine AG and is clearly one of the cleverest MPs in parliament. However, when you stand at a GE and are filmed saying Brexit must be done when there was clearly never any intention of respecting the verdict...and worse, he then was instrumental in trying to overturn the result then it is a very poor show.
He is the epitome of what the public despise about the establishment class and so Grieve's political career being finished off will be one of the highlights of the next GE.
No... he may be the epitomy of what YOU despise, but I would rather have Grieve in govt than some of the empty suits that are currently "in charge"
Presumably you'd rather have him in government because he's a fanatical remainer, rather than any other quality? By the way, I think it's epitome.
Thanks for the grammar correction... as for Grieve, I would rather have him back because
a ) He seems to actually understand the rules and how to get the executive and parliament working together. I cannot recall him or his colleagues spending day after day in court or failing to win votes.
and
b ) He actually seems to want the country to survive this mess with minimal or no damage.
As for Remaining, I have said on here (for years) that I would accept EEA/EFTA. They are external to the EU and do minimal damage to the UK. If Grieve & Co steered us into that then I would happily accept it.
Other than that - Remain / Revoke is my preferred option because Brexit is the biggest act of self-harm this country has ever inflicted on itself.
DJL's rough guide to march estimation. In your mind's eye, transpose that crowd to a football stadium. For comparison, Celtic or Rangers would get around 50,000 each for a home game.
I'm confused as to what happened to Big John Owls. His posts were absolutely going up. They were bonkers, but they were going up.
As to his point - that anyone who isn't Corbyn is a Tory - is LITERALLY the Corbyn project in a nutshell. That Corbyn and his Stalinists will attract 25% share at best doesn't matter as long as what they offer is the True Socialism. That way if not elected they can blame the traitors in the Labour Party and the Biased Media and the Stupid Voters and the Jews and the Capitalists etc etc.
Winning is irrelevant to them. Only smug self-righteous zealotry matters.
Actually it's seemed to me that it's the tone of your posts that have changed rather than Big John's. You were always a Corbyn critic on the point of leaving the party. When you left, you suddenly seemed absolutely rabid on the subject, as in this post.
Lib Dems considering support for Dominic Grieve in the next GE may care to reflect on his versatility when adhering to the manifesto on which he stands.
He was a fine AG and is clearly one of the cleverest MPs in parliament. However, when you stand at a GE and are filmed saying Brexit must be done when there was clearly never any intention of respecting the verdict...and worse, he then was instrumental in trying to overturn the result then it is a very poor show.
He is the epitome of what the public despise about the establishment class and so Grieve's political career being finished off will be one of the highlights of the next GE.
I was chatting at the Tory conference to a senior Beaconsfield Tory. He wasn't especially confident, not least as Central Office haven't allowed them to select a candidate yet.
I'm confused as to what happened to Big John Owls. His posts were absolutely going up. They were bonkers, but they were going up.
As to his point - that anyone who isn't Corbyn is a Tory - is LITERALLY the Corbyn project in a nutshell. That Corbyn and his Stalinists will attract 25% share at best doesn't matter as long as what they offer is the True Socialism. That way if not elected they can blame the traitors in the Labour Party and the Biased Media and the Stupid Voters and the Jews and the Capitalists etc etc.
Winning is irrelevant to them. Only smug self-righteous zealotry matters.
I’m not sure what happened but it appeared to be in the middle of a discourse between us did he do something earlier?
wasn't he somewhat disobliging about the leader of the LDs?
Well we are all disobliging about the ‘other party’ leaders malc is far more caustic than BJO I actually think there isn’t really a problem. Although there are some potentially dangerous posts regarding Swinson partner that could lead to problems.
Well we can't accuse the pollsters of herding! It won't be 15 points if Boris surrenders (his words, not mine).
If I can finish this thread by 10 pm, I won't be accusing Boris Johnson of surrendering, I'll accuse him of collaborating with a foreign power and that he's worse than the Lion of Verdun.
1. No deal negotiated with the EU (Benn Act made this certain) 2. Boris resigns at last possible moment 3. Corbyn fails to form a government 4. Remainer faction forms a government 5. Remainer factions extends 6. Corbyn withdraws confidence, Remainer faction falls 7. General Election called 8. Tories campaign on deal or no deal manifesto 9. Bunch of Tory deselections 10. Tories win 11. EU has backed itself into corner and can't compromise any further. 12. No deal
I think the sequence of events is much more likely to be
1 Extension agreed 2 Parliament legislates for second referendum 3 Referendum held in the first half of 2020
4 Remain wins after excluding a big chunk of Leave options 5 Leavers do not accept result as legitimate due to rigged question 6 Tories go into next election on Leave manifesto 7 Tories win majority 8 Brexit
Why would anyone vote Tory? They have turned into utter, utter incomptents.
I'm confused as to what happened to Big John Owls. His posts were absolutely going up. They were bonkers, but they were going up.
As to his point - that anyone who isn't Corbyn is a Tory - is LITERALLY the Corbyn project in a nutshell. That Corbyn and his Stalinists will attract 25% share at best doesn't matter as long as what they offer is the True Socialism. That way if not elected they can blame the traitors in the Labour Party and the Biased Media and the Stupid Voters and the Jews and the Capitalists etc etc.
Winning is irrelevant to them. Only smug self-righteous zealotry matters.
I’m not sure what happened but it appeared to be in the middle of a discourse between us did he do something earlier?
wasn't he somewhat disobliging about the leader of the LDs?
Well we are all disobliging about the ‘other party’ leaders malc is far more caustic than BJO I actually think there isn’t really a problem. Although there are some potentially dangerous posts regarding Swinson partner that could lead to problems.
I don't think BJO has been banned (clicked his avatar)
This clip appears to show people from these islands chanting in support of the IRA. I've no idea where it was shot, but for some reason a Twitter account attributes it to "Catholic Schools and sectarian bigotry."
I spent all my childhood in Catholic schools in Britain's hardcore Catholic working class heartland. I never heard anything - from fellow pupils, teachers or visiting priests - but condemnation of the IRA: a crowd of psychopathic killers.
But not obviously worse psychopaths than the murdering scum who claim to kill for Islam, but went to impeccably non-sectarian British state schools.
Bigotry doesn't need sectarian schools: it just needs bigots.
aren't they singing fuck the pope and the IRA?
I think the reference to Catholic schools is ironic.
I was chatting at the Tory conference to a senior Beaconsfield Tory. He wasn't especially confident, not least as Central Office haven't allowed them to select a candidate yet.
If the voters of Beaconsfield return Grieve at the next election then that's democracy.
I won't be cheering the result but i'll respect it.
I spent all my childhood in Catholic schools in Britain's hardcore Catholic working class heartland. I never heard anything - from fellow pupils, teachers or visiting priests - but condemnation of the IRA: a crowd of psychopathic killers.
But not obviously worse psychopaths than the murdering scum who claim to kill for Islam, but went to impeccably non-sectarian British state schools.
Bigotry doesn't need sectarian schools: it just needs bigots.
They're singing 'Fuck the Pope and the IRA', not traditionally though of as a way of displaying support for either.
Do you honestly believe anybody but the anoraks has a clue about what any of this means? If you asked someone what Johnson’s current offer was they wouldn’t have a clue unless you hit the one in ten thousand people that had taken the trouble to look into it.
Bigotry doesn't need sectarian schools: it just needs bigots.
Wash your ears out imo, or is this one of the blue dress/gold dress things?
I've heard pro-IRA bigotry (mostly from lunatic lefties educated in England's state schools, or from lunatic Americans "educated" by America's neurotic anti-British bigots)), and have no problems being aware of it. Any more than I'm unaware of the anti-Catholic bigotry I've found too often from those who went to Northern Irish state schools
But Decrepit John L tells me that in his OPINION my hearing's defective. I'd have slightly more respect for his EXPERIENCE of finding bigotry in England's Catholic schools system. Since he shows no evidence he's ever been to one, I suspect all we're getting is his - well, bigotry.
...I am looking forward to a UK-wide, and UK-focused industrial strategy, to reinvigorating our trading relationships with former close friends, like sadly neglected New Zealand, and forging relationships with totally new and unexpected ones.
I'm looking forward to eating more fish caught by British (particularly Scottish) fishermen, and to the SNP tying itself in knots telling us we should give power over a burgeoning British growth industy back to Brussels. I'm looking forward to British consumers being aware, and proud, as we have not been for decades, not just of produce and manufactured goods produced locally, but those produced across our country, selected for quality, but also out of the same enlightened self-interest which drives French, German and Italian citizens, often to choose to wear, eat, drink, experience, and even drive, the best from their own countries.
I could go on and on and on and on, but dinner is calling!
A noble aspiration. But the problem is not what you choose to do, it's what you force other people to do. Loyalty and patriotism are good things. Forced loyalty and patriotism...not so great.
Someone should have thought of that before they made millions of us EU citizens against our will.
So should those who want to strip me of my European citizenship from me , being a European citizen took nothing worth bothering about away from you and nobody has come up with a good reason why this is happening. You will never see any benefit from this madness because there is none
Other than that - Remain / Revoke is my preferred option because Brexit is the biggest act of self-harm this country has ever inflicted on itself.
Seeking to overturn the democratic will of over 17 million voters before implementing that verdict would be the greatest act of self-harm this country has ever inflicted on itself.
Leaving the EU and then campaigning to rejoin on a manifesto commitment woud be the honest way of achieving remainer/rejoiner aims.
And yet they seem terrified of having to go before the people and make the case.
I'm confused as to what happened to Big John Owls. His posts were absolutely going up. They were bonkers, but they were going up.
As to his point - that anyone who isn't Corbyn is a Tory - is LITERALLY the Corbyn project in a nutshell. That Corbyn and his Stalinists will attract 25% share at best doesn't matter as long as what they offer is the True Socialism. That way if not elected they can blame the traitors in the Labour Party and the Biased Media and the Stupid Voters and the Jews and the Capitalists etc etc.
Winning is irrelevant to them. Only smug self-righteous zealotry matters.
I was a lurker back then, but wasn't BJO an ordinary soft level Labour party member, who supported Ed Miliband back in the day? I don't remember him showing much animosity to those who weren't necessarily in the same wing of the party, and he seemed like a pleasant chap. Even if one agrees with Corbyn's economic policies, was his leadership really worth all the nastiness which has developed in the Labour party, and what it has turned Labour party members into? Even in the immediate aftermath of the 2015 GE defeat, and the destruction of SLAB, the party seemed a much happier and united one than it is now.
Most of them will be out of a job after the next GE. Government of Losers.
Followed by a group of people who are as bad as corbyn and couldn’t run a parish council the current cabinet is the biggest bunch of incompetents I’ve ever seen.
Bigotry doesn't need sectarian schools: it just needs bigots.
Wash your ears out imo, or is this one of the blue dress/gold dress things?
I've heard pro-IRA bigotry (mostly from lunatic lefties educated in England's state schools, or from lunatic Americans "educated" by America's neurotic anti-British bigots)), and have no problems being aware of it. Any more than I'm unaware of the anti-Catholic bigotry I've found too often from those who went to Northern Irish state schools
But Decrepit John L tells me that in his OPINION my hearing's defective. I'd have slightly more respect for his EXPERIENCE of finding bigotry in England's Catholic schools system. Since he shows no evidence he's ever been to one, I suspect all we're getting is his - well, bigotry.
I never said anything about bigotry or schools, but commented on the matter of whether they are singing fuck or up "the Pope and the IRA".
Bigotry doesn't need sectarian schools: it just needs bigots.
Wash your ears out imo, or is this one of the blue dress/gold dress things?
I've heard pro-IRA bigotry (mostly from lunatic lefties educated in England's state schools, or from lunatic Americans "educated" by America's neurotic anti-British bigots)), and have no problems being aware of it. Any more than I'm unaware of the anti-Catholic bigotry I've found too often from those who went to Northern Irish state schools
But Decrepit John L tells me that in his OPINION my hearing's defective. I'd have slightly more respect for his EXPERIENCE of finding bigotry in England's Catholic schools system. Since he shows no evidence he's ever been to one, I suspect all we're getting is his - well, bigotry.
Other than that - Remain / Revoke is my preferred option because Brexit is the biggest act of self-harm this country has ever inflicted on itself.
Seeking to overturn the democratic will of over 17 million voters before implementing that verdict would be the greatest act of self-harm this country has ever inflicted on itself.
Leaving the EU and then campaigning to rejoin on a manifesto commitment woud be the honest way of achieving remainer/rejoiner aims.
And yet they seem terrified of having to go before the people and make the case.
Bloody stupid to let people shoot themselves in both feet just because they fell for a bunch of lying bastards. If we forget the whole thing we can return to normal and get on with life.
I'm confused as to what happened to Big John Owls. His posts were absolutely going up. They were bonkers, but they were going up.
As to his point - that anyone who isn't Corbyn is a Tory - is LITERALLY the Corbyn project in a nutshell. That Corbyn and his Stalinists will attract 25% share at best doesn't matter as long as what they offer is the True Socialism. That way if not elected they can blame the traitors in the Labour Party and the Biased Media and the Stupid Voters and the Jews and the Capitalists etc etc.
Winning is irrelevant to them. Only smug self-righteous zealotry matters.
Actually it's seemed to me that it's the tone of your posts that have changed rather than Big John's. You were always a Corbyn critic on the point of leaving the party. When you left, you suddenly seemed absolutely rabid on the subject, as in this post.
Eye of the beholder, perhaps?
I've been saying the above for a couple of years because its true. Usually on Labour Facebook boards - obviously I'm not on those any more.
LibDems taken a big hit after adopting revoking Art 50.
I think it's just the LD bounce unwinding tbh. I'd also be wary of the Tory bounce. Let's wait until everything is calm and nothing special is going on.
Can’t see there being an election before the spring - now with Jezza in the basement polling wiseZ
How do they stop an election when they vote down the Queens Speech though?
We've not had a government lose a vote on a QS since 1924 and at that point the pressure to disolve Parliament and have an election will be overwhelming IMO.
I am presuming the Sunday Times will have more on Bonker-Gate?
Please keep it classy.
The story is about Boris Johnson's technology lessons.
I'm sure he pulled out dongle safely and didn't pick up any viruses.
I had to chuckle at Trump visiting that massive self-contained retirement community in Florida the other day, where apparently the instances of STDs is higher than Miami.
Can’t see there being an election before the spring - now with Jezza in the basement polling wiseZ
How do they stop an election when they vote down the Queens Speech though?
We've not had a government lose a vote on a QS since 1924 and at that point the pressure to disolve Parliament and have an election will be overwhelming IMO.
They could just sit on their hands... unless the QS contained a clear provocation.
I am presuming the Sunday Times will have more on Bonker-Gate?
Please keep it classy.
The story is about Boris Johnson's technology lessons.
I'm sure he pulled out dongle safely and didn't pick up any viruses.
I had to chuckle at Trump visiting that massive self-contained retirement community in Florida the other day, where apparently the instances of STDs is higher than Miami.
My friend used to work at a clap clinic, she was astonished with how many pensioners she had to deal with.
Far too many of them thought once the lady had the menopause then it was fine to have unprotected sex as there was no chance of an unexpected pregnancy.
I am presuming the Sunday Times will have more on Bonker-Gate?
Please keep it classy.
The story is about Boris Johnson's technology lessons.
I'm sure he pulled out dongle safely and didn't pick up any viruses.
I had to chuckle at Trump visiting that massive self-contained retirement community in Florida the other day, where apparently the instances of STDs is higher than Miami.
Viagra combined with no fear of pregnancy means the oldies are at it like rabbits.
There isn't the vote for ANY of the options without one side or another abstaining. McDonnell can stand there crossing his arms stamping his foot and saying SHAN'T. But it won't matter - Corbyn can't get a confidence vote past the current HoC.
Can’t see there being an election before the spring - now with Jezza in the basement polling wiseZ
How do they stop an election when they vote down the Queens Speech though?
We've not had a government lose a vote on a QS since 1924 and at that point the pressure to disolve Parliament and have an election will be overwhelming IMO.
But Labour would struggle to find the numbers to vote down the QS unless the rebel Tories vote against it. They would need the support of all the independents and also their own rebels such as Hoey and Mann who will probably not want to see the Tories ousted.
Can’t see there being an election before the spring - now with Jezza in the basement polling wiseZ
How do they stop an election when they vote down the Queens Speech though?
We've not had a government lose a vote on a QS since 1924 and at that point the pressure to disolve Parliament and have an election will be overwhelming IMO.
Voting down the Queen’s Speech doesn’t trigger an election before 2022. Only a motion in one of the forms set out in the FTPA can do that. That’s the genius of the Act. The Queen’s Speech being voted down will have serious consequences. It’s just no one knows what they are yet.
Comments
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1180559858699030529
Will Labour? Greens?
Steven dorrel to the lib dems
The 800m women's world record still stands from 1983. Even Caster Semenya couldn't get close to it.
He was a fine AG and is clearly one of the cleverest MPs in parliament. However, when you stand at a GE and are filmed saying Brexit must be done when there was clearly never any intention of respecting the verdict...and worse, he then was instrumental in trying to overturn the result then it is a very poor show.
He is the epitome of what the public despise about the establishment class and so Grieve's political career being finished off will be one of the highlights of the next GE.
Otherwise it is like going to the Supreme Court to overturn prorogation and recall parliament for ... what, exactly?
Last week's PLP meeting saw calls for a referendum before an election from all sides. The smaller opposition parties are all on board as are some of the expelled Tories. If Johnson fails to take us out on 31 October I would expect more Tories to back ref2. It only lost by a small margin in the indicative votes, I think it almost certain that it will carry in the aftermath of the failure to do or die.
5 Leavers do not accept result as legitimate due to rigged question
6 Tories go into next election on Leave manifesto
7 Tories win majority
8 Brexit
As to his point - that anyone who isn't Corbyn is a Tory - is LITERALLY the Corbyn project in a nutshell. That Corbyn and his Stalinists will attract 25% share at best doesn't matter as long as what they offer is the True Socialism. That way if not elected they can blame the traitors in the Labour Party and the Biased Media and the Stupid Voters and the Jews and the Capitalists etc etc.
Winning is irrelevant to them. Only smug self-righteous zealotry matters.
I don't know about labeling it a GoNU it should have a tag saying..."To Tories, Merry Christmas!".
I spent all my childhood in Catholic schools in Britain's hardcore Catholic working class heartland. I never heard anything - from fellow pupils, teachers or visiting priests - but condemnation of the IRA: a crowd of psychopathic killers.
But not obviously worse psychopaths than the murdering scum who claim to kill for Islam, but went to impeccably non-sectarian British state schools.
Bigotry doesn't need sectarian schools: it just needs bigots.
aren't they singing fuck the pope and the IRA?
11 HYUFD predicts Tory landslide.
And to be clear, if prior to the last election he had made his real feelings and intentions known...and then subsequently won the seat then I wouldn't have a problem at all.
a ) He seems to actually understand the rules and how to get the executive and parliament working together. I cannot recall him or his colleagues spending day after day in court or failing to win votes.
and
b ) He actually seems to want the country to survive this mess with minimal or no damage.
As for Remaining, I have said on here (for years) that I would accept EEA/EFTA. They are external to the EU and do minimal damage to the UK. If Grieve & Co steered us into that then I would happily accept it.
Other than that - Remain / Revoke is my preferred option because Brexit is the biggest act of self-harm this country has ever inflicted on itself.
Eye of the beholder, perhaps?
Most of them will be out of a job after the next GE. Government of Losers.
I think the reference to Catholic schools is ironic.
I won't be cheering the result but i'll respect it.
But Decrepit John L tells me that in his OPINION my hearing's defective. I'd have slightly more respect for his EXPERIENCE of finding bigotry in England's Catholic schools system.
Since he shows no evidence he's ever been to one, I suspect all we're getting is his - well, bigotry.
Leaving the EU and then campaigning to rejoin on a manifesto commitment woud be the honest way of achieving remainer/rejoiner aims.
And yet they seem terrified of having to go before the people and make the case.
That poll is another illustration as to how crap May was at the PR.
Even if one agrees with Corbyn's economic policies, was his leadership really worth all the nastiness which has developed in the Labour party, and what it has turned Labour party members into? Even in the immediate aftermath of the 2015 GE defeat, and the destruction of SLAB, the party seemed a much happier and united one than it is now.
https://news.sky.com/story/hundreds-of-young-trans-people-seeking-help-to-return-to-original-sex-11827740
Take that Rabble Alliance!
Er...
The story is about Boris Johnson's technology lessons.
I'm sure he pulled out dongle safely and didn't pick up any viruses.
We've not had a government lose a vote on a QS since 1924 and at that point the pressure to disolve Parliament and have an election will be overwhelming IMO.
Far too many of them thought once the lady had the menopause then it was fine to have unprotected sex as there was no chance of an unexpected pregnancy.
https://twitter.com/TheGlenlivet/status/1179447297807147009