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Toms

helloyouaright?

eristdoof

First

FrancisUrquhart

Are we expecting many polls this evening?

IanB2

If I were in the UK rather than enjoying a lunch in suddenly autumnal (fall-ish; is that a word?) Virginia, I'd be laying November and wondering about December.

eristdoof

nico67 said:

Now that the Hungary veto looks to have died in a ditch just thinking about what exactly could the UK had offered to get them onside .

There never was a "Hungary Veto" it was wishful thinking of a few Brexiteers.

ydoethur

IanB2 said:

If I were in the UK rather than enjoying a lunch in suddenly autumnal Virginia, I'd be laying November and wondering about December.

Mr B2, your tangled love life is no concern of ours.

MikeSmithson

IanB2 said:

If I were in the UK rather than enjoying a lunch in suddenly autumnal (fall-ish; is that a word?) Virginia, I'd be laying November and wondering about December.

Yes. There should be an Opinium for the Observer and possibly there will be others

geoffw

When Boris requests an extension (before 19th October) as he is obliged to do, it will only be granted for a valid purpose. He might prevaricate in an unconvincing way in order that the EU denies the request and thus lands us in no-deal territory. But I doubt it. Instead he will say quite emphatically that the purpose is to hold a general election in order to end all the dither and come to a decision to conclude the Brexit process. This will surely be accepted by the EU who will grant an extension to, say, June 2020. But Parliament will have to agree to an election within the extension period for the plan to be credible to the EU, otherwise they could just go on until the FTPA kicks in. But I don't think it will be put it off for long because both the SNP and the Libdems should gain seats in Parliament.

Benpointer

FPT

Noo said:

MarqueeMark said:

Noo said:

MarqueeMark said:

Noo said:

Who was it on here trying to find odds on Liverpool winning all their games til Christmas? Hope you took my advice and steered clear!

Ahem.....

Well that was bound to happen

Next you'll be telling us to steer clear of Boris getting a deal then a thumping majority....

Steer clear of the opposition, the Conservatives are bound to win the next election.

🤞 Hopefully you've jinxed that now!

(Edit: I certainly jinxed the thread)

Benpointer

geoffw said:

When Boris requests an extension (before 19th October) as he is obliged to do, it will only be granted for a valid purpose. He might prevaricate in an unconvincing way in order that the EU denies the request and thus lands us in no-deal territory. But I doubt it. Instead he will say quite emphatically that the purpose is to hold a general election in order to end all the dither and come to a decision to conclude the Brexit process. This will surely be accepted by the EU who will grant an extension to, say, June 2020. But Labour will have to agree to an election within the extension period for the plan to be credible to the EU, otherwise Parliament could just go on until the FTPA kicks in. But I don't think it will be put it off for long because both the SNP and the Libdems should gain seats in Parliament.

Nice try but the EU are not going to turn an extension down because they don't have a written commitment to a GE from Labour.

Benpointer

eristdoof said:

nico67 said:

Now that the Hungary veto looks to have died in a ditch just thinking about what exactly could the UK had offered to get them onside .

There never was a "Hungary Veto" it was wishful thinking of a few Brexiteers.

Spooked me a bit yesterday though tbf!

Benpointer

eristdoof said:

First

Like Hillary?

geoffw

Benpointer said:

geoffw said:

When Boris requests an extension (before 19th October) as he is obliged to do, it will only be granted for a valid purpose. He might prevaricate in an unconvincing way in order that the EU denies the request and thus lands us in no-deal territory. But I doubt it. Instead he will say quite emphatically that the purpose is to hold a general election in order to end all the dither and come to a decision to conclude the Brexit process. This will surely be accepted by the EU who will grant an extension to, say, June 2020. But Labour will have to agree to an election within the extension period for the plan to be credible to the EU, otherwise Parliament could just go on until the FTPA kicks in. But I don't think it will be put it off for long because both the SNP and the Libdems should gain seats in Parliament.

Nice try but the EU are not going to turn an extension down because they don't have a written commitment to a GE from Labour.

You replied before my edit to change Labour to Parliament which is what I meant.

No_Offence_Alan

geoffw said:

Benpointer said:

geoffw said:

When Boris requests an extension (before 19th October) as he is obliged to do, it will only be granted for a valid purpose. He might prevaricate in an unconvincing way in order that the EU denies the request and thus lands us in no-deal territory. But I doubt it. Instead he will say quite emphatically that the purpose is to hold a general election in order to end all the dither and come to a decision to conclude the Brexit process. This will surely be accepted by the EU who will grant an extension to, say, June 2020. But Labour will have to agree to an election within the extension period for the plan to be credible to the EU, otherwise Parliament could just go on until the FTPA kicks in. But I don't think it will be put it off for long because both the SNP and the Libdems should gain seats in Parliament.

Nice try but the EU are not going to turn an extension down because they don't have a written commitment to a GE from Labour.

You replied before my edit to change Labour to Parliament which is what I meant.

geoffw said:

Benpointer said:

geoffw said:

When Boris requests an extension (before 19th October) as he is obliged to do, it will only be granted for a valid purpose. He might prevaricate in an unconvincing way in order that the EU denies the request and thus lands us in no-deal territory. But I doubt it. Instead he will say quite emphatically that the purpose is to hold a general election in order to end all the dither and come to a decision to conclude the Brexit process. This will surely be accepted by the EU who will grant an extension to, say, June 2020. But Labour will have to agree to an election within the extension period for the plan to be credible to the EU, otherwise Parliament could just go on until the FTPA kicks in. But I don't think it will be put it off for long because both the SNP and the Libdems should gain seats in Parliament.

Nice try but the EU are not going to turn an extension down because they don't have a written commitment to a GE from Labour.

You replied before my edit to change Labour to Parliament which is what I meant.

Since the FTPA requires 2/3 of Parliament to call a GE, that is essentially the same thing.

ydoethur

eristdoof said:

nico67 said:

Now that the Hungary veto looks to have died in a ditch just thinking about what exactly could the UK had offered to get them onside .

There never was a "Hungary Veto" it was wishful thinking of a few Brexiteers.

Has their desire been fully sated? Or has their failure just whetted their appetite?

Benpointer

geoffw said:

Benpointer said:

geoffw said:

When Boris requests an extension (before 19th October) as he is obliged to do, it will only be granted for a valid purpose. He might prevaricate in an unconvincing way in order that the EU denies the request and thus lands us in no-deal territory. But I doubt it. Instead he will say quite emphatically that the purpose is to hold a general election in order to end all the dither and come to a decision to conclude the Brexit process. This will surely be accepted by the EU who will grant an extension to, say, June 2020. But Labour will have to agree to an election within the extension period for the plan to be credible to the EU, otherwise Parliament could just go on until the FTPA kicks in. But I don't think it will be put it off for long because both the SNP and the Libdems should gain seats in Parliament.

Nice try but the EU are not going to turn an extension down because they don't have a written commitment to a GE from Labour.

You replied before my edit to change Labour to Parliament which is what I meant.

Ok but I still think my objection applies.

geoffw

No_Offence_Alan said:

geoffw said:

Benpointer said:

geoffw said:

When Boris requests an extension (before 19th October) as he is obliged to do, it will only be granted for a valid purpose. He might prevaricate in an unconvincing way in order that the EU denies the request and thus lands us in no-deal territory. But I doubt it. Instead he will say quite emphatically that the purpose is to hold a general election in order to end all the dither and come to a decision to conclude the Brexit process. This will surely be accepted by the EU who will grant an extension to, say, June 2020. But Labour will have to agree to an election within the extension period for the plan to be credible to the EU, otherwise Parliament could just go on until the FTPA kicks in. But I don't think it will be put it off for long because both the SNP and the Libdems should gain seats in Parliament.

Nice try but the EU are not going to turn an extension down because they don't have a written commitment to a GE from Labour.

You replied before my edit to change Labour to Parliament which is what I meant.

geoffw said:

Benpointer said:

geoffw said:

When Boris requests an extension (before 19th October) as he is obliged to do, it will only be granted for a valid purpose. He might prevaricate in an unconvincing way in order that the EU denies the request and thus lands us in no-deal territory. But I doubt it. Instead he will say quite emphatically that the purpose is to hold a general election in order to end all the dither and come to a decision to conclude the Brexit process. This will surely be accepted by the EU who will grant an extension to, say, June 2020. But Parliament will have to agree to an election within the extension period for the plan to be credible to the EU, otherwise Parliament could just go on until the FTPA kicks in. But I don't think it will be put it off for long because both the SNP and the Libdems should gain seats in Parliament.

Nice try but the EU are not going to turn an extension down because they don't have a written commitment to a GE from Labour.

You replied before my edit to change Labour to Parliament which is what I meant.

Since the FTPA requires 2/3 of Parliament to call a GE, that is essentially the same thing.

Agreed. Isn't this how it will pan out though?

geoffw

Benpointer said:

geoffw said:

Benpointer said:

geoffw said:

When Boris requests an extension (before 19th October) as he is obliged to do, it will only be granted for a valid purpose. He might prevaricate in an unconvincing way in order that the EU denies the request and thus lands us in no-deal territory. But I doubt it. Instead he will say quite emphatically that the purpose is to hold a general election in order to end all the dither and come to a decision to conclude the Brexit process. This will surely be accepted by the EU who will grant an extension to, say, June 2020. But Labour will have to agree to an election within the extension period for the plan to be credible to the EU, otherwise Parliament could just go on until the FTPA kicks in. But I don't think it will be put it off for long because both the SNP and the Libdems should gain seats in Parliament.

Nice try but the EU are not going to turn an extension down because they don't have a written commitment to a GE from Labour.

You replied before my edit to change Labour to Parliament which is what I meant.

Ok but I still think my objection applies.

Yes it does.

Chris

geoffw said:

When Boris requests an extension (before 19th October) as he is obliged to do, it will only be granted for a valid purpose. He might prevaricate in an unconvincing way in order that the EU denies the request and thus lands us in no-deal territory. But I doubt it. Instead he will say quite emphatically that the purpose is to hold a general election in order to end all the dither and come to a decision to conclude the Brexit process.

Surely if he's forced to write the letter he'll just sit in the corner and sulk?

geoffw

Chris said:

geoffw said:

When Boris requests an extension (before 19th October) as he is obliged to do, it will only be granted for a valid purpose. He might prevaricate in an unconvincing way in order that the EU denies the request and thus lands us in no-deal territory. But I doubt it. Instead he will say quite emphatically that the purpose is to hold a general election in order to end all the dither and come to a decision to conclude the Brexit process.

Surely if he's forced to write the letter he'll just sit in the corner and sulk?

eh?

Richard_Tyndall

eristdoof said:

nico67 said:

Now that the Hungary veto looks to have died in a ditch just thinking about what exactly could the UK had offered to get them onside .

There never was a "Hungary Veto" it was wishful thinking of a few Brexiteers.

Or more likely yet another Remainer conspiracy theory.

Luckyguy1983

Black_Rook said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

I don't actively want Great Britain to end as a political unit, but one has to acknowledge the facts of the situation. It's a process that's taking place, and it's probably irreversible.

You propose that there is an irreversible process, but your justification is opinion polling based on a snapshot of people's feelings. It's silly.

Furthermore, it can only be a distinct boon that the UK is leaving an organisation that operated a deliberate strategy of using its influence and funding over decades (with our money), to emphasise regional differences in aid of the eventual federation of the regions of the UK under the EU. Which is the main reason the nationalists have been fighting so hard against Brexit, despite claiming it will aid their cause in some way.

The census is obviously and necessarily a snapshot, but it can hardly be airily dismissed as just another crappy opinion poll. And there's nothing silly about drawing logical conclusions from both its findings, and the overall situation in which we find ourselves.

The only thing that's holding Britain together now is money. If the Scottish and Welsh electorates were each £1 per year better off out than in then they'd be off like a shot.

Your concerns do you credit, but I think you have fallen into blind supposition and alarmism. People are looking for something to believe, and Britain has been absent from the conversation for decades. Brexit is a necessary and brutal handbrake turn, but it's already starting to feel good again.

malcolmg

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

I don't actively want Great Britain to end as a political unit, but one has to acknowledge the facts of the situation. It's a process that's taking place, and it's probably irreversible.

You propose that there is an irreversible process, but your justification is opinion polling based on a snapshot of people's feelings. It's silly.

Furthermore, it can only be a distinct boon that the UK is leaving an organisation that operated a deliberate strategy of using its influence and funding over decades (with our money), to emphasise regional differences in aid of the eventual federation of the regions of the UK under the EU. Which is the main reason the nationalists have been fighting so hard against Brexit, despite claiming it will aid their cause in some way.

The census is obviously and necessarily a snapshot, but it can hardly be airily dismissed as just another crappy opinion poll. And there's nothing silly about drawing logical conclusions from both its findings, and the overall situation in which we find ourselves.

The only thing that's holding Britain together now is money. If the Scottish and Welsh electorates were each £1 per year better off out than in then they'd be off like a shot.

Your concerns do you credit, but I think you have fallen into blind supposition and alarmism. People are looking for something to believe, and Britain has been absent from the conversation for decades. Brexit is a necessary and brutal handbrake turn, but it's already starting to feel good again.

The sooner Scotland is out the better.

Luckyguy1983

malcolmg said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

I don't actively want Great Britain to end as a political unit, but one has to acknowledge the facts of the situation. It's a process that's taking place, and it's probably irreversible.

You propose that there is an irreversible process, but your justification is opinion polling based on a snapshot of people's feelings. It's silly.

Furthermore, it can only be a distinct boon that the UK is leaving an organisation that operated a deliberate strategy of using its influence and funding over decades (with our money), to emphasise regional differences in aid of the eventual federation of the regions of the UK under the EU. Which is the main reason the nationalists have been fighting so hard against Brexit, despite claiming it will aid their cause in some way.

The census is obviously and necessarily a snapshot, but it can hardly be airily dismissed as just another crappy opinion poll. And there's nothing silly about drawing logical conclusions from both its findings, and the overall situation in which we find ourselves.

The only thing that's holding Britain together now is money. If the Scottish and Welsh electorates were each £1 per year better off out than in then they'd be off like a shot.

Your concerns do you credit, but I think you have fallen into blind supposition and alarmism. People are looking for something to believe, and Britain has been absent from the conversation for decades. Brexit is a necessary and brutal handbrake turn, but it's already starting to feel good again.

The sooner Scotland is out the better.

So you say Malc, but sometimes your mask slips and you still refer to 'us'. You're just an old PB Tory at heart.

TheScreamingEagles

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

A leading Tory Brexit rebel has struck a secret deal with the Liberal Democrats in what is the first significant move towards the formation of a “remain alliance” at the general election.

The Liberal Democrats have agreed to stand aside to help former Conservative Dominic Grieve save his Beaconsfield seat, paving the way for a Brexit showdown at the ballot box.

The former attorney-general, a leading light in the cross-party “rebel alliance”, is planning to stand as an independent after being kicked out of the party by Boris Johnson for backing plans to seize control of the Commons to block no-deal.

Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

Omnium

malcolmg said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

I don't actively want Great Britain to end as a political unit, but one has to acknowledge the facts of the situation. It's a process that's taking place, and it's probably irreversible.

You propose that there is an irreversible process, but your justification is opinion polling based on a snapshot of people's feelings. It's silly.

Furthermore, it can only be a distinct boon that the UK is leaving an organisation that operated a deliberate strategy of using its influence and funding over decades (with our money), to emphasise regional differences in aid of the eventual federation of the regions of the UK under the EU. Which is the main reason the nationalists have been fighting so hard against Brexit, despite claiming it will aid their cause in some way.

The census is obviously and necessarily a snapshot, but it can hardly be airily dismissed as just another crappy opinion poll. And there's nothing silly about drawing logical conclusions from both its findings, and the overall situation in which we find ourselves.

The only thing that's holding Britain together now is money. If the Scottish and Welsh electorates were each £1 per year better off out than in then they'd be off like a shot.

Your concerns do you credit, but I think you have fallen into blind supposition and alarmism. People are looking for something to believe, and Britain has been absent from the conversation for decades. Brexit is a necessary and brutal handbrake turn, but it's already starting to feel good again.

The sooner Scotland is out the better.

I think Japan will deal with them in their next match.

Evening Malcolm.

TGOHF2

malcolmg said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

I don't actively want Great Britain to end as a political unit, but one has to acknowledge the facts of the situation. It's a process that's taking place, and it's probably irreversible.

You propose that there is an irreversible process, but your justification is opinion polling based on a snapshot of people's feelings. It's silly.

Furthermore, it can only be a distinct boon that the UK is leaving an organisation that operated a deliberate strategy of using its influence and funding over decades (with our money), to emphasise regional differences in aid of the eventual federation of the regions of the UK under the EU. Which is the main reason the nationalists have been fighting so hard against Brexit, despite claiming it will aid their cause in some way.

The census is obviously and necessarily a snapshot, but it can hardly be airily dismissed as just another crappy opinion poll. And there's nothing silly about drawing logical conclusions from both its findings, and the overall situation in which we find ourselves.

The only thing that's holding Britain together now is money. If the Scottish and Welsh electorates were each £1 per year better off out than in then they'd be off like a shot.

Your concerns do you credit, but I think you have fallen into blind supposition and alarmism. People are looking for something to believe, and Britain has been absent from the conversation for decades. Brexit is a necessary and brutal handbrake turn, but it's already starting to feel good again.

The sooner Scotland is out the better.

The borders want to stay malc - but if Dundee and Glasgow want to leave that’s fine.

malcolmg

Luckyguy1983 said:

malcolmg said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

I don't actively want Great Britain to end as a political unit, but one has to acknowledge the facts of the situation. It's a process that's taking place, and it's probably irreversible.

You propose that there is an irreversible process, but your justification is opinion polling based on a snapshot of people's feelings. It's silly.

Furthermore, it can only be a distinct boon that the UK is leaving an organisation that operated a deliberate strategy of using its influence and funding over decades (with our money), to emphasise regional differences in aid of the eventual federation of the regions of the UK under the EU. Which is the main reason the nationalists have been fighting so hard against Brexit, despite claiming it will aid their cause in some way.

The census is obviously and necessarily a snapshot, but it can hardly be airily dismissed as just another crappy opinion poll. And there's nothing silly about drawing logical conclusions from both its findings, and the overall situation in which we find ourselves.

The only thing that's holding Britain together now is money. If the Scottish and Welsh electorates were each £1 per year better off out than in then they'd be off like a shot.

Your concerns do you credit, but I think you have fallen into blind supposition and alarmism. People are looking for something to believe, and Britain has been absent from the conversation for decades. Brexit is a necessary and brutal handbrake turn, but it's already starting to feel good again.

The sooner Scotland is out the better.

So you say Malc, but sometimes your mask slips and you still refer to 'us'. You're just an old PB Tory at heart.

I still want independence for absolute certain, Westminster politicians will always treat us badly, especially the Tories.
Perhaps then we could get a decent centre right party.

nichomar

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

I don't actively want Great Britain to end as a political unit, but one has to acknowledge the facts of the situation. It's a process that's taking place, and it's probably irreversible.

You propose that there is an irreversible process, but your justification is opinion polling based on a snapshot of people's feelings. It's silly.

Furthermore, it can only be a distinct boon that the UK is leaving an organisation that operated a deliberate strategy of using its influence and funding over decades (with our money), to emphasise regional differences in aid of the eventual federation of the regions of the UK under the EU. Which is the main reason the nationalists have been fighting so hard against Brexit, despite claiming it will aid their cause in some way.

The census is obviously and necessarily a snapshot, but it can hardly be airily dismissed as just another crappy opinion poll. And there's nothing silly about drawing logical conclusions from both its findings, and the overall situation in which we find ourselves.

The only thing that's holding Britain together now is money. If the Scottish and Welsh electorates were each £1 per year better off out than in then they'd be off like a shot.

Your concerns do you credit, but I think you have fallen into blind supposition and alarmism. People are looking for something to believe, and Britain has been absent from the conversation for decades. Brexit is a necessary and brutal handbrake turn, but it's already starting to feel good again.

In what way is it beginning to feel good? Are you looking forward to your once in every four of five years expression of sovereignty or maybe that wonderful FTA with the US or can you now glimpse the sunlit uplands where you screw everybody else into the ground whist you and the Tory party line their pockets?

ydoethur

TheScreamingEagles said:

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

A leading Tory Brexit rebel has struck a secret deal with the Liberal Democrats in what is the first significant move towards the formation of a “remain alliance” at the general election.

The Liberal Democrats have agreed to stand aside to help former Conservative Dominic Grieve save his Beaconsfield seat, paving the way for a Brexit showdown at the ballot box.

The former attorney-general, a leading light in the cross-party “rebel alliance”, is planning to stand as an independent after being kicked out of the party by Boris Johnson for backing plans to seize control of the Commons to block no-deal.

Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

What happens if he stands, wins and then rejoins the Tories?

OK, so in the case of Beaconsfield or Runnymede it makes no difference as an independent isn't going to win. But if it was a winnable marginal I can't see it happening for that reason.

malcolmg

Omnium said:

malcolmg said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

I don't actively want Great Britain to end as a political unit, but one has to acknowledge the facts of the situation. It's a process that's taking place, and it's probably irreversible.

You propose that there is an irreversible process, but your justification is opinion polling based on a snapshot of people's feelings. It's silly.

Furthermore, it can only be a distinct boon that the UK is leaving an organisation that operated a deliberate strategy of using its influence and funding over decades (with our money), to emphasise regional differences in aid of the eventual federation of the regions of the UK under the EU. Which is the main reason the nationalists have been fighting so hard against Brexit, despite claiming it will aid their cause in some way.

The census is obviously and necessarily a snapshot, but it can hardly be airily dismissed as just another crappy opinion poll. And there's nothing silly about drawing logical conclusions from both its findings, and the overall situation in which we find ourselves.

The only thing that's holding Britain together now is money. If the Scottish and Welsh electorates were each £1 per year better off out than in then they'd be off like a shot.

Your concerns do you credit, but I think you have fallen into blind supposition and alarmism. People are looking for something to believe, and Britain has been absent from the conversation for decades. Brexit is a necessary and brutal handbrake turn, but it's already starting to feel good again.

The sooner Scotland is out the better.

I think Japan will deal with them in their next match.

Evening Malcolm.

Can only hope for something different, having had their nightmare against Ireland it may go well.

PS: Good evening

MarqueeMark

TheScreamingEagles said:

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

A leading Tory Brexit rebel has struck a secret deal with the Liberal Democrats in what is the first significant move towards the formation of a “remain alliance” at the general election.

The Liberal Democrats have agreed to stand aside to help former Conservative Dominic Grieve save his Beaconsfield seat, paving the way for a Brexit showdown at the ballot box.

The former attorney-general, a leading light in the cross-party “rebel alliance”, is planning to stand as an independent after being kicked out of the party by Boris Johnson for backing plans to seize control of the Commons to block no-deal.

Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

Time for the voters to tell the wanker to piss off, whatever label he wears.

Theuniondivvie

TGOHF2 said:

malcolmg said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

I don't actively want Great Britain to end as a political unit, but one has to acknowledge the facts of the situation. It's a process that's taking place, and it's probably irreversible.

You propose that there is an irreversible process, but your justification is opinion polling based on a snapshot of people's feelings. It's silly.

Furthermore, it can only be a distinct boon that the UK is leaving an organisation that operated a deliberate strategy of using its influence and funding over decades (with our money), to emphasise regional differences in aid of the eventual federation of the regions of the UK under the EU. Which is the main reason the nationalists have been fighting so hard against Brexit, despite claiming it will aid their cause in some way.

The census is obviously and necessarily a snapshot, but it can hardly be airily dismissed as just another crappy opinion poll. And there's nothing silly about drawing logical conclusions from both its findings, and the overall situation in which we find ourselves.

The only thing that's holding Britain together now is money. If the Scottish and Welsh electorates were each £1 per year better off out than in then they'd be off like a shot.

Your concerns do you credit, but I think you have fallen into blind supposition and alarmism. People are looking for something to believe, and Britain has been absent from the conversation for decades. Brexit is a necessary and brutal handbrake turn, but it's already starting to feel good again.

The sooner Scotland is out the better.

The borders want to stay malc - but if Dundee and Glasgow want to leave that’s fine.

Pretty sure these guys are in Glasgow. Why won't you think of your People?

https://twitter.com/BottyBolingoli/status/1180331697025552385?s=20

Dadge

TheScreamingEagles said:

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

A leading Tory Brexit rebel has struck a secret deal with the Liberal Democrats in what is the first significant move towards the formation of a “remain alliance” at the general election.

The Liberal Democrats have agreed to stand aside to help former Conservative Dominic Grieve save his Beaconsfield seat, paving the way for a Brexit showdown at the ballot box.

The former attorney-general, a leading light in the cross-party “rebel alliance”, is planning to stand as an independent after being kicked out of the party by Boris Johnson for backing plans to seize control of the Commons to block no-deal.

Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

The LibDems forming electoral pacts with Tories is a very bad look. This should not happen unless Grieve guarantees that he won't sit as a Conservative for the duration of the parliament. Even then, I don't think I'd do it. Politics is about more than Brexit, and Grieve is likely to vote with the Tories on most issues.

Anabobazina

ydoethur said:

IanB2 said:

If I were in the UK rather than enjoying a lunch in suddenly autumnal Virginia, I'd be laying November and wondering about December.

Mr B2, your tangled love life is no concern of ours.

😁

nichomar

MarqueeMark said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

A leading Tory Brexit rebel has struck a secret deal with the Liberal Democrats in what is the first significant move towards the formation of a “remain alliance” at the general election.

The Liberal Democrats have agreed to stand aside to help former Conservative Dominic Grieve save his Beaconsfield seat, paving the way for a Brexit showdown at the ballot box.

The former attorney-general, a leading light in the cross-party “rebel alliance”, is planning to stand as an independent after being kicked out of the party by Boris Johnson for backing plans to seize control of the Commons to block no-deal.

Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

Time for the voters to tell the wanker to piss off, whatever label he wears.

Does he not have a democratic right to express his views? Do you think your party of all the talents can actually do without the likes of grieve and others or are you now a brains trust dependent on Francois and Fysh

kinabalu

Chris said:

Surely if he's forced to write the letter he'll just sit in the corner and sulk?

Might not write the letter. Might take the Mandela route.

"Brexit must happen. The people must be free. This cause I devote my life to. If necessary it is a cause for which I am prepared to be incarcerated."

27 years later he emerges from Belmarsh and Dom is waiting. Together with renewed vigour they resume the campaign for a clean break and a Canada style FTA.

And this time they win.

Omnium

malcolmg said:

Omnium said:

malcolmg said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

I don't actively want Great Britain to end as a political unit, but one has to acknowledge the facts of the situation. It's a process that's taking place, and it's probably irreversible.

You propose that there is an irreversible process, but your justification is opinion polling based on a snapshot of people's feelings. It's silly.

Furthermore, it can only be a distinct boon that the UK is leaving an organisation that operated a deliberate strategy of using its influence and funding over decades (with our money), to emphasise regional differences in aid of the eventual federation of the regions of the UK under the EU. Which is the main reason the nationalists have been fighting so hard against Brexit, despite claiming it will aid their cause in some way.

The census is obviously and necessarily a snapshot, but it can hardly be airily dismissed as just another crappy opinion poll. And there's nothing silly about drawing logical conclusions from both its findings, and the overall situation in which we find ourselves.

The only thing that's holding Britain together now is money. If the Scottish and Welsh electorates were each £1 per year better off out than in then they'd be off like a shot.

Your concerns do you credit, but I think you have fallen into blind supposition and alarmism. People are looking for something to believe, and Britain has been absent from the conversation for decades. Brexit is a necessary and brutal handbrake turn, but it's already starting to feel good again.

The sooner Scotland is out the better.

I think Japan will deal with them in their next match.

Evening Malcolm.

Can only hope for something different, having had their nightmare against Ireland it may go well.

PS: Good evening

One day. I can't see it being in this tournament though.

MarqueeMark

nichomar said:

MarqueeMark said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

A leading Tory Brexit rebel has struck a secret deal with the Liberal Democrats in what is the first significant move towards the formation of a “remain alliance” at the general election.

The Liberal Democrats have agreed to stand aside to help former Conservative Dominic Grieve save his Beaconsfield seat, paving the way for a Brexit showdown at the ballot box.

The former attorney-general, a leading light in the cross-party “rebel alliance”, is planning to stand as an independent after being kicked out of the party by Boris Johnson for backing plans to seize control of the Commons to block no-deal.

Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

Time for the voters to tell the wanker to piss off, whatever label he wears.

Does he not have a democratic right to express his views? Do you think your party of all the talents can actually do without the likes of grieve and others or are you now a brains trust dependent on Francois and Fysh

It can certainly do without Grieve.

Luckyguy1983

malcolmg said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

malcolmg said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

I don't actively want Great Britain to end as a political unit, but one has to acknowledge the facts of the situation. It's a process that's taking place, and it's probably irreversible.

You propose that there is an irreversible process, but your justification is opinion polling based on a snapshot of people's feelings. It's silly.

Furthermore, it can only be a distinct boon that the UK is leaving an organisation that operated a deliberate strategy of using its influence and funding over decades (with our money), to emphasise regional differences in aid of the eventual federation of the regions of the UK under the EU. Which is the main reason the nationalists have been fighting so hard against Brexit, despite claiming it will aid their cause in some way.

The census is obviously and necessarily a snapshot, but it can hardly be airily dismissed as just another crappy opinion poll. And there's nothing silly about drawing logical conclusions from both its findings, and the overall situation in which we find ourselves.

The only thing that's holding Britain together now is money. If the Scottish and Welsh electorates were each £1 per year better off out than in then they'd be off like a shot.

Your concerns do you credit, but I think you have fallen into blind supposition and alarmism. People are looking for something to believe, and Britain has been absent from the conversation for decades. Brexit is a necessary and brutal handbrake turn, but it's already starting to feel good again.

The sooner Scotland is out the better.

So you say Malc, but sometimes your mask slips and you still refer to 'us'. You're just an old PB Tory at heart.

I still want independence for absolute certain, Westminster politicians will always treat us badly, especially the Tories.
Perhaps then we could get a decent centre right party.

If there was a decent 'Scotland 1st' regional party they could be kingmakers in any Westminster Government. See the DUP. As it is, there's only the 'we hate all of yous' party. I can see why people in Scotland vote for them, but not getting power then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy doesn't it?

nichomar

kinabalu said:

Chris said:

Surely if he's forced to write the letter he'll just sit in the corner and sulk?

Might not write the letter. Might take the Mandela route.

"Brexit must happen. The people must be free. This cause I devote my life to. If necessary it is a cause for which I am prepared to be incarcerated."

27 years later he emerges from Belmarsh and Dom is waiting. Together with renewed vigour they resume the campaign for a clean break and a Canada style FTA.

And this time they win.

I’ll buy that but can we make it 35 years as he could get banged up for life if he gets this wrong

nico67

I’d love Dominic Grieve to save his seat just to piss of the right wing trash tabloids and all the haters .

#Je suis Dominic

bigjohnowls

Dadge said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

A leading Tory Brexit rebel has struck a secret deal with the Liberal Democrats in what is the first significant move towards the formation of a “remain alliance” at the general election.

The Liberal Democrats have agreed to stand aside to help former Conservative Dominic Grieve save his Beaconsfield seat, paving the way for a Brexit showdown at the ballot box.

The former attorney-general, a leading light in the cross-party “rebel alliance”, is planning to stand as an independent after being kicked out of the party by Boris Johnson for backing plans to seize control of the Commons to block no-deal.

Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

The LibDems forming electoral pacts with Tories is a very bad look. This should not happen unless Grieve guarantees that he won't sit as a Conservative for the duration of the parliament. Even then, I don't think I'd do it. Politics is about more than Brexit, and Grieve is likely to vote with the Tories on most issues.

Vote LD get Tory

nichomar

bigjohnowls said:

Dadge said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

A leading Tory Brexit rebel has struck a secret deal with the Liberal Democrats in what is the first significant move towards the formation of a “remain alliance” at the general election.

The Liberal Democrats have agreed to stand aside to help former Conservative Dominic Grieve save his Beaconsfield seat, paving the way for a Brexit showdown at the ballot box.

The former attorney-general, a leading light in the cross-party “rebel alliance”, is planning to stand as an independent after being kicked out of the party by Boris Johnson for backing plans to seize control of the Commons to block no-deal.

Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

The LibDems forming electoral pacts with Tories is a very bad look. This should not happen unless Grieve guarantees that he won't sit as a Conservative for the duration of the parliament. Even then, I don't think I'd do it. Politics is about more than Brexit, and Grieve is likely to vote with the Tories on most issues.

Vote LD get Tory

Get rid of corbyn and someone might listen to you.

Theuniondivvie

Speaking of obscenities.

https://twitter.com/TheGlenlivet/status/1179447297807147009?s=20

bigjohnowls

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

Dadge said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

A leading Tory Brexit rebel has struck a secret deal with the Liberal Democrats in what is the first significant move towards the formation of a “remain alliance” at the general election.

The Liberal Democrats have agreed to stand aside to help former Conservative Dominic Grieve save his Beaconsfield seat, paving the way for a Brexit showdown at the ballot box.

The former attorney-general, a leading light in the cross-party “rebel alliance”, is planning to stand as an independent after being kicked out of the party by Boris Johnson for backing plans to seize control of the Commons to block no-deal.

Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

The LibDems forming electoral pacts with Tories is a very bad look. This should not happen unless Grieve guarantees that he won't sit as a Conservative for the duration of the parliament. Even then, I don't think I'd do it. Politics is about more than Brexit, and Grieve is likely to vote with the Tories on most issues.

Vote LD get Tory

Get rid of corbyn and someone might listen to you.

Tory Swinson forms pact with Tories

Only one way to stop hardTory BREXIT.

Only one potential non Tory PM

bigjohnowls

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

Dadge said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

A leading Tory Brexit rebel has struck a secret deal with the Liberal Democrats in what is the first significant move towards the formation of a “remain alliance” at the general election.

The Liberal Democrats have agreed to stand aside to help former Conservative Dominic Grieve save his Beaconsfield seat, paving the way for a Brexit showdown at the ballot box.

The former attorney-general, a leading light in the cross-party “rebel alliance”, is planning to stand as an independent after being kicked out of the party by Boris Johnson for backing plans to seize control of the Commons to block no-deal.

Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

The LibDems forming electoral pacts with Tories is a very bad look. This should not happen unless Grieve guarantees that he won't sit as a Conservative for the duration of the parliament. Even then, I don't think I'd do it. Politics is about more than Brexit, and Grieve is likely to vote with the Tories on most issues.

Vote LD get Tory

Get rid of corbyn and someone might listen to you.

Get rid of Corbyn get rid of choice.

Tory Swinson Tory Labour or Tories.

Need a change Corbyn is the only candidate for change.

ydoethur

bigjohnowls said:

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

Dadge said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

A leading Tory Brexit rebel has struck a secret deal with the Liberal Democrats in what is the first significant move towards the formation of a “remain alliance” at the general election.

The Liberal Democrats have agreed to stand aside to help former Conservative Dominic Grieve save his Beaconsfield seat, paving the way for a Brexit showdown at the ballot box.

The former attorney-general, a leading light in the cross-party “rebel alliance”, is planning to stand as an independent after being kicked out of the party by Boris Johnson for backing plans to seize control of the Commons to block no-deal.

Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

The LibDems forming electoral pacts with Tories is a very bad look. This should not happen unless Grieve guarantees that he won't sit as a Conservative for the duration of the parliament. Even then, I don't think I'd do it. Politics is about more than Brexit, and Grieve is likely to vote with the Tories on most issues.

Vote LD get Tory

Get rid of corbyn and someone might listen to you.

Tory Swinson forms pact with Tories

Only one way to stop hardTory BREXIT.

Only one potential non Tory PM

Caroline Lucas has little chance of winning a majority.

nichomar

bigjohnowls said:

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

Dadge said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

A leading Tory Brexit rebel has struck a secret deal with the Liberal Democrats in what is the first significant move towards the formation of a “remain alliance” at the general election.

The Liberal Democrats have agreed to stand aside to help former Conservative Dominic Grieve save his Beaconsfield seat, paving the way for a Brexit showdown at the ballot box.

The former attorney-general, a leading light in the cross-party “rebel alliance”, is planning to stand as an independent after being kicked out of the party by Boris Johnson for backing plans to seize control of the Commons to block no-deal.

Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

The LibDems forming electoral pacts with Tories is a very bad look. This should not happen unless Grieve guarantees that he won't sit as a Conservative for the duration of the parliament. Even then, I don't think I'd do it. Politics is about more than Brexit, and Grieve is likely to vote with the Tories on most issues.

Vote LD get Tory

Get rid of corbyn and someone might listen to you.

Tory Swinson forms pact with Tories

Only one way to stop hardTory BREXIT.

Only one potential non Tory PM

Yes Jo Swinson, your having a laugh if you think corbyn can win an election beyond one to be leader of the losers party.

nichomar

bigjohnowls said:

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

Dadge said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

A leading Tory Brexit rebel has struck a secret deal with the Liberal Democrats in what is the first significant move towards the formation of a “remain alliance” at the general election.

The Liberal Democrats have agreed to stand aside to help former Conservative Dominic Grieve save his Beaconsfield seat, paving the way for a Brexit showdown at the ballot box.

The former attorney-general, a leading light in the cross-party “rebel alliance”, is planning to stand as an independent after being kicked out of the party by Boris Johnson for backing plans to seize control of the Commons to block no-deal.

Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

The LibDems forming electoral pacts with Tories is a very bad look. This should not happen unless Grieve guarantees that he won't sit as a Conservative for the duration of the parliament. Even then, I don't think I'd do it. Politics is about more than Brexit, and Grieve is likely to vote with the Tories on most issues.

Vote LD get Tory

Get rid of corbyn and someone might listen to you.

Get rid of Corbyn get rid of choice.

Tory Swinson Tory Labour or Tories.

Need a change Corbyn is the only candidate for change.

Well it’s a choice the majority would reject, if Benn were you’re leader you would have a 20% lead in the polls.

bigjohnowls

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

Dadge said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

A leading Tory Brexit rebel has struck a secret deal with the Liberal Democrats in what is the first significant move towards the formation of a “remain alliance” at the general election.

The Liberal Democrats have agreed to stand aside to help former Conservative Dominic Grieve save his Beaconsfield seat, paving the way for a Brexit showdown at the ballot box.

The former attorney-general, a leading light in the cross-party “rebel alliance”, is planning to stand as an independent after being kicked out of the party by Boris Johnson for backing plans to seize control of the Commons to block no-deal.

Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

The LibDems forming electoral pacts with Tories is a very bad look. This should not happen unless Grieve guarantees that he won't sit as a Conservative for the duration of the parliament. Even then, I don't think I'd do it. Politics is about more than Brexit, and Grieve is likely to vote with the Tories on most issues.

Vote LD get Tory

Get rid of corbyn and someone might listen to you.

Tory Swinson forms pact with Tories

Only one way to stop hardTory BREXIT.

Only one potential non Tory PM

Yes Jo Swinson, your having a laugh if you think corbyn can win an election beyond one to be leader of the losers party.

Tory Swinson is a Tory.

The clue is in her voting record and her willingness to accept No Deal Brexit ahead of the only other alternative.

No wonder she wants a Thatcher monument.

kinabalu

nichomar said:

I’ll buy that but can we make it 35 years as he could get banged up for life if he gets this wrong

☺

Done.

Although with our namby pamby justice system he could be out in no time.

FrancisUrquhart

Hmmmm...an alberto salazar trained athlete has just stormed the 1500m.

nichomar

bigjohnowls said:

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

Dadge said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

A leading Tory Brexit rebel has struck a secret deal with the Liberal Democrats in what is the first significant move towards the formation of a “remain alliance” at the general election.

The Liberal Democrats have agreed to stand aside to help former Conservative Dominic Grieve save his Beaconsfield seat, paving the way for a Brexit showdown at the ballot box.



Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

The LibDems forming electoral pacts with Tories is a very bad look. This should not happen unless Grieve guarantees that he won't sit as a Conservative for the duration of the parliament. Even then, I don't think I'd do it. Politics is about more than Brexit, and Grieve is likely to vote with the Tories on most issues.

Vote LD get Tory

Get rid of corbyn and someone might listen to you.

Tory Swinson forms pact with Tories

Only one way to stop hardTory BREXIT.

Only one potential non Tory PM

Yes Jo Swinson, your having a laugh if you think corbyn can win an election beyond one to be leader of the losers party.

Tory Swinson is a Tory.

The clue is in her voting record and her willingness to accept No Deal Brexit ahead of the only other alternative.

No wonder she wants a Thatcher monument.

She’s got a damn sight more experience of government than corbyn who couldn’t run a whelk stall.

bigjohnowls

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

Dadge said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

A leading Tory Brexit rebel has struck a secret deal with the Liberal Democrats in what is the first significant move towards the formation of a “remain alliance” at the general election.

The Liberal Democrats have agreed to stand aside to help former Conservative Dominic Grieve save his Beaconsfield seat, paving the way for a Brexit showdown at the ballot box.

The former attorney-general, a leading light in the cross-party “rebel alliance”, is planning to stand as an independent after being kicked out of the party by Boris Johnson for backing plans to seize control of the Commons to block no-deal.

Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

The LibDems forming electoral pacts with Tories is a very bad look. This should not happen unless Grieve guarantees that he won't sit as a Conservative for the duration of the parliament. Even then, I don't think I'd do it. Politics is about more than Brexit, and Grieve is likely to vote with the Tories on most issues.

Vote LD get Tory

Get rid of corbyn and someone might listen to you.

Get rid of Corbyn get rid of choice.

Tory Swinson Tory Labour or Tories.

Need a change Corbyn is the only candidate for change.

Well it’s a choice the majority would reject, if Benn were you’re leader you would have a 20% lead in the polls.

Benn is a Tory Lite just like Swinson

We need an actual choice.

20 Pts. ahead my arse

nichomar

bigjohnowls said:

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

Dadge said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

A leading Tory Brexit rebel has struck a secret deal with the Liberal Democrats in what is the first significant move towards the formation of a “remain alliance” at the general election.

The Liberal Democrats have agreed to stand aside to help former Conservative Dominic Grieve save his Beaconsfield seat, paving the way for a Brexit showdown at the ballot box.

The former attorney-general, a leading light in the cross-party “rebel alliance”, is planning to stand as an independent after being kicked out of the party by Boris Johnson for backing plans to seize control of the Commons to block no-deal.

Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

The LibDems forming electoral pacts with Tories is a very bad look. This should not happen unless Grieve guarantees that he won't sit as a Conservative for the duration of the parliament. Even then, I don't think I'd do it. Politics is about more than Brexit, and Grieve is likely to vote with the Tories on most issues.

Vote LD get Tory

Get rid of corbyn and someone might listen to you.

Get rid of Corbyn get rid of choice.

Tory Swinson Tory Labour or Tories.

Need a change Corbyn is the only candidate for change.

Well it’s a choice the majority would reject, if Benn were you’re leader you would have a 20% lead in the polls.

Benn is a Tory Lite just like Swinson

We need an actual choice.

20 Pts. ahead my arse

You can’t see quality when it’s under your nose

GIN1138

Evening PB,

How big is Boris's Bounce going to be on tonight's polls then?

viewcode

FPT @OnlyLivingBoy

OnlyLivingBoy said:

viewcode said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

viewcode said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/JebBush/status/1180288964093206528?s=20

Oh, for pity's sake. LBJ was abusive and swore like a sailor, Nixon swore frequently, Truman used the n-word freely, Clinton got the staff to give him a blowjob, and Bush 43 was a bit of a horrible boss (happy to be contradicted by the last one, because I don't know enough).

Oddly we know what Reagan was like in informal correspondence (he had a penfriend, Lorraine Wagner) and he was gracious in his words. Carter pulled off one of the best anecdotes - he was told that they could get Marine One on the lawn in X minutes, and deadpan he said "OK, go on then" (I paraphrase) and they actually had to do it.

The difference is those former presidents may have seorn in private but not in public. .

Fair point, although if we have no records of their private speech, we can draw no conclusions.

There is also the history of swearing to consider. I think "fuck" is was rare (nonexistent) pre WWII, the absolute ban on the n-word only stated to come in during the 80's, the recent semi-rehabilitation of the c-word surprises me (I still think it's a Very Bad Word and can't use it in front of women), and I have got a horrible feeling that the popularity of "motherf***er" is down to Eddie Murphy. "Cocksucker" isn't as bad as it used to be, and "tits" is now no longer a swearword.

And yes I know George Carlin got there first....

I thought Fuck was quite a venerable part of the English language, Cunt likewise. It would be surprising if people weren't using them before the mid-twentieth century, surely.
Along with his long standing mistrust of John Bolton, Trump's swearing is one of his few admirable characteristics.

I think you might be right in respect of "fuck". I haven't checked with the c-word. I always understood that "fuck" was not widely used before WW2, but was popularised by soldiers returning from the war. If Wikipedia (I know) is right, it predates WW2 by some way and may indeed have been common, or at least not unheard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck

Flanner

bigjohnowls said:

Dadge said:

Even that's nothing like as awful as the risk in some seats that by voting LD you'd get that ineffectual Trotskyite posho and his even posho-er chum Milne destroying the jobs of the British working class.

Of course if you want to hurt Britain's poor, Corbyn's your man - which is why he's so despised where I come from.

justin124

bigjohnowls said:

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

Dadge said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

.

The Liberal Democrats have agreed to stand aside to help former Conservative Dominic Grieve save his Beaconsfield seat, paving the way for a Brexit showdown at the ballot box.

The former attorney-general, a leading light in the cross-party “rebel alliance”, is planning to stand as an independent after being kicked out of the party by Boris Johnson for backing plans to seize control of the Commons to block no-deal.

Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

The LibDems forming electoral pacts with Tories is a very bad look. This should not happen unless Grieve guarantees that he won't sit as a Conservative for the duration of the parliament. Even then, I don't think I'd do it. Politics is about more than Brexit, and Grieve is likely to vote with the Tories on most issues.

Vote LD get Tory

Get rid of corbyn and someone might listen to you.

Tory Swinson forms pact with Tories

Only one way to stop hardTory BREXIT.

Only one potential non Tory PM

Yes Jo Swinson, your having a laugh if you think corbyn can win an election beyond one to be leader of the losers party.

Tory Swinson is a Tory.

The clue is in her voting record and her willingness to accept No Deal Brexit ahead of the only other alternative.

No wonder she wants a Thatcher monument.

But a few days ago you indicated you would vote for Johnson's Deal. To support someone as malign as him is frankly far more to your discredit than the desire of anybody else to help Dominic Grieve.

nichomar

viewcode said:

FPT @OnlyLivingBoy

OnlyLivingBoy said:

viewcode said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

viewcode said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/JebBush/status/1180288964093206528?s=20

Oh, for pity's sake. LBJ was abusive and swore like a sailor, Nixon swore frequently, Truman used the n-word freely, Clinton got the staff to give him a blowjob, and Bush 43 was a bit of a horrible boss (happy to be contradicted by the last one, because I don't know enough).

Oddly we know what Reagan was like in informal correspondence (he had a penfriend, Lorraine Wagner) and he was gracious in his words. Carter pulled off one of the best anecdotes - he was told that they could get Marine One on the lawn in X minutes, and deadpan he said "OK, go on then" (I paraphrase) and they actually had to do it.

The difference is those former presidents may have seorn in private but not in public. .

Fair point, although if we have no records of their private speech, we can draw no conclusions.

There is also the history of swearing to consider. I think "fuck" is was rare (nonexistent) pre WWII, the absolute ban on the n-word only stated to come in during the 80's, the recent semi-rehabilitation of the c-word surprises me (I still think it's a Very Bad Word and can't use it in front of women), and I have got a horrible feeling that the popularity of "motherf***er" is down to Eddie Murphy. "Cocksucker" isn't as bad as it used to be, and "tits" is now no longer a swearword.

And yes I know George Carlin got there first....

I thought Fuck was quite a venerable part of the English language, Cunt likewise. It would be surprising if people weren't using them before the mid-twentieth century, surely.
Along with his long standing mistrust of John Bolton, Trump's swearing is one of his few admirable characteristics.

I think you might be right in respect of "fuck". I haven't checked with the c-word. I always understood that "fuck" was not widely used before WW2, but was popularised by soldiers returning from the war. If Wikipedia (I know) is right, it predates WW2 by some way and may indeed have been common, or at least not unheard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck

I think fuck and it’s derivatives may be the only word in the English language that can be used in every grammatical permutation.

ydoethur

nichomar said:

viewcode said:

FPT @OnlyLivingBoy

OnlyLivingBoy said:

viewcode said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

viewcode said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/JebBush/status/1180288964093206528?s=20

Oh, for pity's sake. LBJ was abusive and swore like a sailor, Nixon swore frequently, Truman used the n-word freely, Clinton got the staff to give him a blowjob, and Bush 43 was a bit of a horrible boss (happy to be contradicted by the last one, because I don't know enough).

Oddly we know what Reagan was like in informal correspondence (he had a penfriend, Lorraine Wagner) and he was gracious in his words. Carter pulled off one of the best anecdotes - he was told that they could get Marine One on the lawn in X minutes, and deadpan he said "OK, go on then" (I paraphrase) and they actually had to do it.

The difference is those former presidents may have seorn in private but not in public. .

Fair point, although if we have no records of their private speech, we can draw no conclusions.

There is also the history of swearing to consider. I think "fuck" is was rare (nonexistent) pre WWII, the absolute ban on the n-word only stated to come in during the 80's, the recent semi-rehabilitation of the c-word surprises me (I still think it's a Very Bad Word and can't use it in front of women), and I have got a horrible feeling that the popularity of "motherf***er" is down to Eddie Murphy. "Cocksucker" isn't as bad as it used to be, and "tits" is now no longer a swearword.

And yes I know George Carlin got there first....

I thought Fuck was quite a venerable part of the English language, Cunt likewise. It would be surprising if people weren't using them before the mid-twentieth century, surely.
Along with his long standing mistrust of John Bolton, Trump's swearing is one of his few admirable characteristics.

I think you might be right in respect of "fuck". I haven't checked with the c-word. I always understood that "fuck" was not widely used before WW2, but was popularised by soldiers returning from the war. If Wikipedia (I know) is right, it predates WW2 by some way and may indeed have been common, or at least not unheard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck

I think fuck and it’s derivatives may be the only word in the English language that can be used in every grammatical permutation.

C-word is Latin!

AlastairMeeks

Betting against a 2019 election remains my biggest betting position at the moment. It might lose but the odds on a 2019 election are way too short..

ydoethur

bigjohnowls said:

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

Dadge said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

A leading Tory Brexit rebel has struck a secret deal with the Liberal Democrats in what is the first significant move towards the formation of a “remain alliance” at the general election.

The Liberal Democrats have agreed to stand aside to help former Conservative Dominic Grieve save his Beaconsfield seat, paving the way for a Brexit showdown at the ballot box.

The former attorney-general, a leading light in the cross-party “rebel alliance”, is planning to stand as an independent after being kicked out of the party by Boris Johnson for backing plans to seize control of the Commons to block no-deal.

Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

The LibDems forming electoral pacts with Tories is a very bad look. This should not happen unless Grieve guarantees that he won't sit as a Conservative for the duration of the parliament. Even then, I don't think I'd do it. Politics is about more than Brexit, and Grieve is likely to vote with the Tories on most issues.

Vote LD get Tory

Get rid of corbyn and someone might listen to you.

Get rid of Corbyn get rid of choice.

Tory Swinson Tory Labour or Tories.

Need a change Corbyn is the only candidate for change.

Well it’s a choice the majority would reject, if Benn were you’re leader you would have a 20% lead in the polls.

Benn is a Tory Lite just like Swinson

We need an actual choice.

20 Pts. ahead my arse

Corbyn's more of a Tory really. He's taking us back to the 1980s and has his sights set on the 1940s.

humbugger

Good evening all.

Lib Dems considering support for Dominic Grieve in the next GE may care to reflect on his versatility when adhering to the manifesto on which he stands.

nichomar

ydoethur said:

bigjohnowls said:

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

Dadge said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

A leading Tory Brexit rebel has struck a secret deal with the Liberal Democrats in what is the first significant move towards the formation of a “remain alliance” at the general election

Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

The LibDems forming electoral pacts with Tories is a very bad look. This should not happen unless Grieve guarantees that he won't sit as a Conservative for the duration of the parliament. Even then, I don't think I'd do it. Politics is about more than Brexit, and Grieve is likely to vote with the Tories on most issues.

Vote LD get Tory

Get rid of corbyn and someone might listen to you.

Get rid of Corbyn get rid of choice.

Tory Swinson Tory Labour or Tories.

Need a change Corbyn is the only candidate for change.

Well it’s a choice the majority would reject, if Benn were you’re leader you would have a 20% lead in the polls.

Benn is a Tory Lite just like Swinson

We need an actual choice.

20 Pts. ahead my arse

Corbyn's more of a Tory really. He's taking us back to the 1980s and has his sights set on the 1940s.

But does he want tea with the vicar whilst watching cricket and followed by endless repeats of heartbeat?

Luckyguy1983

It was estimated that between 20 and 60 percent of laws passed by Westminster (and I fully believe in the 60 percent figure) originated in Brussels - in other words, they were Brussels pills mushed up in Westminster jam. That was and is a scandal, and I'm looking forward to Governments being elected (and sacked) on the basis of their own legislative programmes, designed for the UK and put before the UK electorate on that basis.

I am looking forward to a UK-wide, and UK-focused industrial strategy, to reinvigorating our trading relationships with former close friends, like sadly neglected New Zealand, and forging relationships with totally new and unexpected ones.

I'm looking forward to eating more fish caught by British (particularly Scottish) fishermen, and to the SNP tying itself in knots telling us we should give power over a burgeoning British growth industy back to Brussels. I'm looking forward to British consumers being aware, and proud, as we have not been for decades, not just of produce and manufactured goods produced locally, but those produced across our country, selected for quality, but also out of the same enlightened self-interest which drives French, German and Italian citizens, often to choose to wear, eat, drink, experience, and even drive, the best from their own countries.

I could go on and on and on and on, but dinner is calling!

Chris

kinabalu said:

Chris said:

Surely if he's forced to write the letter he'll just sit in the corner and sulk?

Might not write the letter. Might take the Mandela route.

"Brexit must happen. The people must be free. This cause I devote my life to. If necessary it is a cause for which I am prepared to be incarcerated."

There is only one cause he has devoted his life to. It's not one that can be furthered by self-sacrifice.

malcolmg

Theuniondivvie said:

TGOHF2 said:

malcolmg said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

I don't actively want Great Britain to end as a political unit, but one has to acknowledge the facts of the situation. It's a process that's taking place, and it's probably irreversible.

You propose that there is an irreversible process, but your justification is opinion polling based on a snapshot of people's feelings. It's silly.

Furthermore, it can only be a distinct boon that the UK is leaving an organisation that operated a deliberate strategy of using its influence and funding over decades (with our money), to emphasise regional differences in aid of the eventual federation of the regions of the UK under the EU. Which is the main reason the nationalists have been fighting so hard against Brexit, despite claiming it will aid their cause in some way.

The census is obviously and necessarily a snapshot, but it can hardly be airily dismissed as just another crappy opinion poll. And there's nothing silly about drawing logical conclusions from both its findings, and the overall situation in which we find ourselves.

The only thing that's holding Britain together now is money. If the Scottish and Welsh electorates were each £1 per year better off out than in then they'd be off like a shot.

Your concerns do you credit, but I think you have fallen into blind supposition and alarmism. People are looking for something to believe, and Britain has been absent from the conversation for decades. Brexit is a necessary and brutal handbrake turn, but it's already starting to feel good again.

The sooner Scotland is out the better.

The borders want to stay malc - but if Dundee and Glasgow want to leave that’s fine.

Pretty sure these guys are in Glasgow. Why won't you think of your People?

https://twitter.com/BottyBolingoli/status/1180331697025552385?s=20

Can you believe the knuckle draggers, shocking.

ydoethur

nichomar said:

ydoethur said:

bigjohnowls said:

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

nichomar said:

bigjohnowls said:

Dadge said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Speaking of general elections, this is going to throw a Spaniard in Boris Johnson's works.

A leading Tory Brexit rebel has struck a secret deal with the Liberal Democrats in what is the first significant move towards the formation of a “remain alliance” at the general election

Following talks with party bosses, Grieve’s Lib Dem opponent in Beaconsfield, Rob Castell, has agreed to stand down. This could pave the way for the Greens to do the same. Campaigners for a People’s Vote are also likely to urge Labour voters to hold their noses and back Grieve in order to maximise votes in parliament for a new referendum.

Grieve told The Sunday Times: “If there is going to be a general election prior to Brexit being concluded my view is that, in those circumstances, if I can’t stand as a Conservative candidate I will stand as an independent. It’s up to other political parties to decide whether they wish to put up a candidate. My understanding is that the Liberal Democrats will decide not to do so, for which I am grateful. I believe that will be helpful. I have also had supportive emails from people who voted Labour in 2017.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/lib-dems-to-save-dominic-grieve-in-remain-alliance-pact-w3wxqs0c7

The LibDems forming electoral pacts with Tories is a very bad look. This should not happen unless Grieve guarantees that he won't sit as a Conservative for the duration of the parliament. Even then, I don't think I'd do it. Politics is about more than Brexit, and Grieve is likely to vote with the Tories on most issues.

Vote LD get Tory

Get rid of corbyn and someone might listen to you.

Get rid of Corbyn get rid of choice.

Tory Swinson Tory Labour or Tories.

Need a change Corbyn is the only candidate for change.

Well it’s a choice the majority would reject, if Benn were you’re leader you would have a 20% lead in the polls.

Benn is a Tory Lite just like Swinson

We need an actual choice.

20 Pts. ahead my arse

Corbyn's more of a Tory really. He's taking us back to the 1980s and has his sights set on the 1940s.

But does he want tea with the vicar whilst watching cricket and followed by endless repeats of heartbeat?

He wouldn't be very interested in a police drama.

I did have a cynical thought about what might persuade him to be interested but it was an unkind one.

malcolmg

Luckyguy1983 said:

malcolmg said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

malcolmg said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

I don't actively want Great Britain to end as a political unit, but one has to acknowledge the facts of the situation. It's a process that's taking place, and it's probably irreversible.

You propose that there is an irreversible process, but your justification is opinion polling based on a snapshot of people's feelings. It's silly.

Furthermore, it can only be a distinct boon that the UK is leaving an organisation that operated a deliberate strategy of using its influence and funding over decades (with our money), to emphasise regional differences in aid of the eventual federation of the regions of the UK under the EU. Which is the main reason the nationalists have been fighting so hard against Brexit, despite claiming it will aid their cause in some way.

The census is obviously and necessarily a snapshot, but it can hardly be airily dismissed as just another crappy opinion poll. And there's nothing silly about drawing logical conclusions from both its findings, and the overall situation in which we find ourselves.

The only thing that's holding Britain together now is money. If the Scottish and Welsh electorates were each £1 per year better off out than in then they'd be off like a shot.

Your concerns do you credit, but I think you have fallen into blind supposition and alarmism. People are looking for something to believe, and Britain has been absent from the conversation for decades. Brexit is a necessary and brutal handbrake turn, but it's already starting to feel good again.

The sooner Scotland is out the better.

So you say Malc, but sometimes your mask slips and you still refer to 'us'. You're just an old PB Tory at heart.

I still want independence for absolute certain, Westminster politicians will always treat us badly, especially the Tories.
Perhaps then we could get a decent centre right party.

If there was a decent 'Scotland 1st' regional party they could be kingmakers in any Westminster Government. See the DUP. As it is, there's only the 'we hate all of yous' party. I can see why people in Scotland vote for them, but not getting power then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy doesn't it?

It is getting closer... biggest ever march today.
https://twitter.com/ScoPoliticsNews/status/1180471782677139458

nichomar

Luckyguy1983 said:

It was estimated that between 20 and 60 percent of laws passed by Westminster (and I fully believe in the 60 percent figure) originated in Brussels - in other words, they were Brussels pills mushed up in Westminster jam. That was and is a scandal, and I'm looking forward to Governments being elected (and sacked) on the basis of their own legislative programmes, designed for the UK and put before the UK electorate on that basis.

I am looking forward to a UK-wide, and UK-focused industrial strategy, to reinvigorating our trading relationships with former close friends, like sadly neglected New Zealand, and forging relationships with totally new and unexpected ones.

I'm looking forward to eating more fish caught by British (particularly Scottish) fishermen, and to the SNP tying itself in knots telling us we should give power over a burgeoning British growth industy back to Brussels. I'm looking forward to British consumers being aware, and proud, as we have not been for decades, not just of produce and manufactured goods produced locally, but those produced across our country, selected for quality, but also out of the same enlightened self-interest which drives French, German and Italian citizens, often to choose to wear, eat, drink, experience, and even drive, the best from their own countries.

I could go on and on and on and on, but dinner is calling!

Most EU laws were agreed by the UK government before they came to parliament we have always had the freedom to do all of the rest that you suggest but haven’t done so. Germansbsell more to thebretnof the world than we do it’s not the EU stopping it

Andrew

viewcode said:

I think you might be right in respect of "fuck". I haven't checked with the c-word. I always understood that "fuck" was not widely used before WW2, but was popularised by soldiers returning from the war.

It has an ancient and noble heritage stretching back to the 13th century:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_le_Fucker

tyson

Luckyguy1983 said:

It was estimated that between 20 and 60 percent of laws passed by Westminster (and I fully believe in the 60 percent figure) originated in Brussels - in other words, they were Brussels pills mushed up in Westminster jam. That was and is a scandal, and I'm looking forward to Governments being elected (and sacked) on the basis of their own legislative programmes, designed for the UK and put before the UK electorate on that basis.

I am looking forward to a UK-wide, and UK-focused industrial strategy, to reinvigorating our trading relationships with former close friends, like sadly neglected New Zealand, and forging relationships with totally new and unexpected ones.

I'm looking forward to eating more fish caught by British (particularly Scottish) fishermen, and to the SNP tying itself in knots telling us we should give power over a burgeoning British growth industy back to Brussels. I'm looking forward to British consumers being aware, and proud, as we have not been for decades, not just of produce and manufactured goods produced locally, but those produced across our country, selected for quality, but also out of the same enlightened self-interest which drives French, German and Italian citizens, often to choose to wear, eat, drink, experience, and even drive, the best from their own countries.

I could go on and on and on and on, but dinner is calling!

What a load of bobbikins....

Gallowgate

@bigjohnowls talking about Jo Swinson again

bigjohnowls

My posts aren't being allowed so post 12109 is my last. Goodbye.

viewcode

Luckyguy1983 said:

...I am looking forward to a UK-wide, and UK-focused industrial strategy, to reinvigorating our trading relationships with former close friends, like sadly neglected New Zealand, and forging relationships with totally new and unexpected ones.

I'm looking forward to eating more fish caught by British (particularly Scottish) fishermen, and to the SNP tying itself in knots telling us we should give power over a burgeoning British growth industy back to Brussels. I'm looking forward to British consumers being aware, and proud, as we have not been for decades, not just of produce and manufactured goods produced locally, but those produced across our country, selected for quality, but also out of the same enlightened self-interest which drives French, German and Italian citizens, often to choose to wear, eat, drink, experience, and even drive, the best from their own countries.

I could go on and on and on and on, but dinner is calling!

A noble aspiration. But the problem is not what you choose to do, it's what you force other people to do. Loyalty and patriotism are good things. Forced loyalty and patriotism...not so great.

GIN1138

bigjohnowls said:

My posts aren't being allowed so goodbye.

Burgessian

malcolmg said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

malcolmg said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

malcolmg said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

I don't actively want Great Britain to end as a political unit, but one has to acknowledge the facts of the situation. It's a process that's taking place, and it's probably irreversible.

The only thing that's holding Britain together now is money. If the Scottish and Welsh electorates were each £1 per year better off out than in then they'd be off like a shot.

Your concerns do you credit, but I think you have fallen into blind supposition and alarmism. People are looking for something to believe, and Britain has been absent from the conversation for decades. Brexit is a necessary and brutal handbrake turn, but it's already starting to feel good again.

The sooner Scotland is out the better.

So you say Malc, but sometimes your mask slips and you still refer to 'us'. You're just an old PB Tory at heart.

I still want independence for absolute certain, Westminster politicians will always treat us badly, especially the Tories.
Perhaps then we could get a decent centre right party.

If there was a decent 'Scotland 1st' regional party they could be kingmakers in any Westminster Government. See the DUP. As it is, there's only the 'we hate all of yous' party. I can see why people in Scotland vote for them, but not getting power then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy doesn't it?

It is getting closer... biggest ever march today.
https://twitter.com/ScoPoliticsNews/status/1180471782677139458

Hilarious. Just displacement activity from people with nothing better to do with their time and which only serves to alienate everyone else.

The most recent actual voting event in Scotland took place on Thursday in a council by-election in Colin "Salmond-Slayer" Clark's seat in Gordon, Aberdeenshire. Strongest SNP ward in his seat. Nats threw the kichen sink at it - result? Swing from SNP to Tories of 5% and Tory candidate overcame a SNP lead of 600 to come first.

It ain't happening Malc. Ordinary Scots sick of Nicola and the obsession. You boys need to wake up and smell the coffee.


Bridge of Don By-Election, 1st preferences;

Con - 1857 (36.2%, +10.3)
SNP - 1797 (35.0%, +0.8)
LD - 929 (18.1%, +8.8)
Lab - 305 (5.9%, -5.2)
Grn - 140 (2.7%, +2.7)
UKIP - 55 (1.1%, +1.1)
Ind - 43 (0.8%)
Red - 9 (0.2%, +0.2)

ydoethur

bigjohnowls said:

My posts aren't being allowed so post 12109 is my last. Goodbye.

Is it time to enlist Ed Balls for a Free Owls campaign?

Gabs2

I still believe the following will happen.

1. No deal negotiated with the EU (Benn Act made this certain)
2. Boris resigns at last possible moment
3. Corbyn fails to form a government
4. Remainer faction forms a government
5. Remainer factions extends
6. Corbyn withdraws confidence, Remainer faction falls
7. General Election called
8. Tories campaign on deal or no deal manifesto
9. Bunch of Tory deselections
10. Tories win
11. EU has backed itself into corner and can't compromise any further.
12. No deal

Gabs2

bigjohnowls said:

My posts aren't being allowed so post 12109 is my last. Goodbye.

Why aren't they being allowed?

Ishmael_Z

bigjohnowls said:

My posts aren't being allowed so post 12109 is my last. Goodbye.

Isn't that one of those paradox thingies?

Gabs2

malcolmg said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

malcolmg said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

malcolmg said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

Black_Rook said:

I don't actively want Great Britain to end as a political unit, but one has to acknowledge the facts of the situation. It's a process that's taking place, and it's probably irreversible.

You propose that there is an irreversible process, but your justification is opinion polling based on a snapshot of people's feelings. It's silly.

Furthermore, it can only be a distinct boon that the UK is leaving an organisation that operated a deliberate strategy of using its influence and funding over decades (with our money), to emphasise regional differences in aid of the eventual federation of the regions of the UK under the EU. Which is the main reason the nationalists have been fighting so hard against Brexit, despite claiming it will aid their cause in some way.

The census is obviously and necessarily a snapshot, but it can hardly be airily dismissed as just another crappy opinion poll. And there's nothing silly about drawing logical conclusions from both its findings, and the overall situation in which we find ourselves.

The only thing that's holding Britain together now is money. If the Scottish and Welsh electorates were each £1 per year better off out than in then they'd be off like a shot.

Your concerns do you credit, but I think you have fallen into blind supposition and alarmism. People are looking for something to believe, and Britain has been absent from the conversation for decades. Brexit is a necessary and brutal handbrake turn, but it's already starting to feel good again.

The sooner Scotland is out the better.

So you say Malc, but sometimes your mask slips and you still refer to 'us'. You're just an old PB Tory at heart.

I still want independence for absolute certain, Westminster politicians will always treat us badly, especially the Tories.
Perhaps then we could get a decent centre right party.

If there was a decent 'Scotland 1st' regional party they could be kingmakers in any Westminster Government. See the DUP. As it is, there's only the 'we hate all of yous' party. I can see why people in Scotland vote for them, but not getting power then becomes a self fulfilling prophecy doesn't it?

It is getting closer... biggest ever march today.
https://twitter.com/ScoPoliticsNews/status/1180471782677139458

I can see them marching undee at least two banners.

viewcode

Andrew said:

viewcode said:

I think you might be right in respect of "fuck". I haven't checked with the c-word. I always understood that "fuck" was not widely used before WW2, but was popularised by soldiers returning from the war.

It has an ancient and noble heritage stretching back to the 13th century:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_le_Fucker

Apparently he had a brother, who banged on about immigrants all the time. He was called John_le_Right_Fu[that's enough - Ed]

viewcode

bigjohnowls said:

My posts aren't being allowed so post 12109 is my last. Goodbye.

...bbbut...you posted it? Were you given a countdown or something?

TheScreamingEagles

Trump's a pound shop Corbyn isn't he?

Trump told Theresa May he doubted Russia was behind Skripal poisoning.

The US president reportedly disputed UK’s ‘overwhelming evidence’ of Russian involvement in Salisbury attack.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/05/trump-told-theresa-may-he-doubted-russia-was-behind-skripal-poisoning

Ishmael_Z

ydoethur said:

nichomar said:

viewcode said:

FPT @OnlyLivingBoy

OnlyLivingBoy said:

viewcode said:

Richard_Tyndall said:

viewcode said:

HYUFD said:

https://twitter.com/JebBush/status/1180288964093206528?s=20

Oh, for pity's sake. LBJ was abusive and swore like a sailor, Nixon swore frequently, Truman used the n-word freely, Clinton got the staff to give him a blowjob, and Bush 43 was a bit of a horrible boss (happy to be contradicted by the last one, because I don't know enough).

Oddly we know what Reagan was like in informal correspondence (he had a penfriend, Lorraine Wagner) and he was gracious in his words. Carter pulled off one of the best anecdotes - he was told that they could get Marine One on the lawn in X minutes, and deadpan he said "OK, go on then" (I paraphrase) and they actually had to do it.

The difference is those former presidents may have seorn in private but not in public. .

Fair point, although if we have no records of their private speech, we can draw no conclusions.

There is also the history of swearing to consider. I think "fuck" is was rare (nonexistent) pre WWII, the absolute ban on the n-word only stated to come in during the 80's, the recent semi-rehabilitation of the c-word surprises me (I still think it's a Very Bad Word and can't use it in front of women), and I have got a horrible feeling that the popularity of "motherf***er" is down to Eddie Murphy. "Cocksucker" isn't as bad as it used to be, and "tits" is now no longer a swearword.

And yes I know George Carlin got there first....

I thought Fuck was quite a venerable part of the English language, Cunt likewise. It would be surprising if people weren't using them before the mid-twentieth century, surely.
Along with his long standing mistrust of John Bolton, Trump's swearing is one of his few admirable characteristics.

I think you might be right in respect of "fuck". I haven't checked with the c-word. I always understood that "fuck" was not widely used before WW2, but was popularised by soldiers returning from the war. If Wikipedia (I know) is right, it predates WW2 by some way and may indeed have been common, or at least not unheard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck

I think fuck and it’s derivatives may be the only word in the English language that can be used in every grammatical permutation.

C-word is Latin!

Wrong, Old Norse kunta (which however I am guessing may be cognate with Latin cunnus.)

TGOHF2

Loadsa flegs malc - flegs flegs and mair flegs.

TOPPING

Richard_Tyndall said:

eristdoof said:

nico67 said:

Now that the Hungary veto looks to have died in a ditch just thinking about what exactly could the UK had offered to get them onside .

There never was a "Hungary Veto" it was wishful thinking of a few Brexiteers.

Or more likely yet another Remainer conspiracy theory.

Or more definitely your man @HYUFD saying it was bolted on.

But then yes good point he is a remainer.

ydoethur

TheScreamingEagles said:

Trump's a pound shop Corbyn isn't he?

I'm not sure who will be more insulted by that suggestion.

nichomar

viewcode said:

bigjohnowls said:

My posts aren't being allowed so post 12109 is my last. Goodbye.

...bbbut...you posted it? Were you given a countdown or something?

Can’t see what you did wrong, clear down your cookies and history and all may be fine

FrancisUrquhart

TheScreamingEagles said:

Trump's a pound shop Corbyn isn't he?

Trump told Theresa May he doubted Russia was behind Skripal poisoning.

The US president reportedly disputed UK’s ‘overwhelming evidence’ of Russian involvement in Salisbury attack.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/05/trump-told-theresa-may-he-doubted-russia-was-behind-skripal-poisoning

Jezza is still waiting on more conclusive evidence. If he had been PM, he would have been have had a nice cup of tea with him by now.

anothernick

Gabs2 said:

I still believe the following will happen.

1. No deal negotiated with the EU (Benn Act made this certain)
2. Boris resigns at last possible moment
3. Corbyn fails to form a government
4. Remainer faction forms a government
5. Remainer factions extends
6. Corbyn withdraws confidence, Remainer faction falls
7. General Election called
8. Tories campaign on deal or no deal manifesto
9. Bunch of Tory deselections
10. Tories win
11. EU has backed itself into corner and can't compromise any further.
12. No deal

I think the sequence of events is much more likely to be

1 Extension agreed
2 Parliament legislates for second referendum
3 Referendum held in the first half of 2020

TheScreamingEagles

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Trump's a pound shop Corbyn isn't he?

I'm not sure who will be more insulted by that suggestion.

The pound shop?

Flanner

malcolmg said:

https://twitter.com/BottyBolingoli/status/1180331697025552385?s=20

Can you believe the knuckle draggers, shocking.

This clip appears to show people from these islands chanting in support of the IRA. I've no idea where it was shot, but for some reason a Twitter account attributes it to "Catholic Schools and sectarian bigotry."

I spent all my childhood in Catholic schools in Britain's hardcore Catholic working class heartland. I never heard anything - from fellow pupils, teachers or visiting priests - but condemnation of the IRA: a crowd of psychopathic killers.

But not obviously worse psychopaths than the murdering scum who claim to kill for Islam, but went to impeccably non-sectarian British state schools.

Bigotry doesn't need sectarian schools: it just needs bigots.

TGOHF2

Get your sandals down to the polling station Lib Dem’s and vote for a stag shootin’ toff lawyer .. https://twitter.com/shippersunbound/status/1180549622407798785?s=21

TOPPING

Ishmael_Z said:

bigjohnowls said:

My posts aren't being allowed so post 12109 is my last. Goodbye.

Isn't that one of those paradox thingies?

Please do not throw stones at this sign.

FrancisUrquhart

TGOHF2 said:

Get your sandals down to the polling station Lib Dem’s and vote for a stag shootin’ toff lawyer ..
twitter.com/shippersunbound/status/1180549622407798785?s=21

Given the Lib Dem got 7% at the last two GE's, will it make any real difference, other than burn all bridges?

Gabs2

TGOHF2 said:

Get your sandals down to the polling station Lib Dem’s and vote for a stag shootin’ toff lawyer .. https://twitter.com/shippersunbound/status/1180549622407798785?s=21

That pretty much rules out the Tories ever letting him back in. Also might make a Brexit Party-Tory deal more likely.