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  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Do you really believe a Scottish seat is the safest Tory seat in the UK as I sure as hell don't! :wink:

    Below is the EC by majority sorted seats and several of the Tories safest seats would be in that column. It is farcical IMO:
    568
    1
    Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk
    John Lamont
    73,191
    71.5
    56.9
    4.9
    4.1
    0.0
    0.0
    32.8
    0.3
    0.0
    1.0
    CON
    CON
    Even if every Tory seat in Scotland went SNP the Tories would have a majority of 152, bigger even than Thatcher's 1983 landslide, on tonight's Opinium
    Yes, but I don't believe the Tories will ever win Makerfield for instance in the near future or many of the other places you claim will make up a massive Tory Majority as identified in the EC seats by majority. No chance these seats will become Tory gains and I suspect in any GE Labour will do no worse than 29%, the low point in 2010 for Labour. I hope your Tory cchq campaign machine don't send you canvassing in some of the places that make up the fictional Tory majority of 152 as I suspect you will burst into tears! :cry:
    The nastiest fuckers on the doorsteps are not Labour but LibDems.
    I always found that the LD would string you along and waste time! :wink: Glad I will not ever participate in any voter contact for any political party ever again!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,151
    edited October 2019

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even if every Tory seat in Scotland went SNP the Tories would have a majority of 152, bigger even than Thatcher's 1983 landslide, on tonight's Opinium
    Yes, but I don't believe the Tories will ever win Makerfield for instance in the near future or many of the other places you claim will make up a urst into tears! :cry:
    I would not burst into tears if the Tories did not get a majority of 152 (I certainly did not in 2017) I might do if they did though, having campaigned for the Tories for over 20 years it would be quite a shock to get such a big win
    Obviously the result whatever it is would not reduce you to tears. I mean the abuse you would get off people. It can be quite intimidating canvassing in a safe Labour seat for the Tories up North. You get threats of physical violence and people shouting Tory scum... :wink:
    I canvassed in Coventry in 2001, I have canvassed numerous council estates in my canvassing experience (though often had more abuse in posher areas), I have seen it all
    lol - Coventry is in the Midlands and its the South Midlands at that! I am talking about really tough places. Like ex-mining areas or economically devastated areas in Yorkshire or elsewhere. They would love your southern accent! Go to somewhere like Barnsley for a weekends canvassing. I promise you they will not eat you but you find it very uncomfortable. They will view you as an outsider and with a Tory rosette on, an unwelcome one at that! I guarantee, when they say "your not from around here are you?" your blood runs cold after a few interactions...
    My sister lived and worked in Rotherham for a year, I have been there and nearby Barnsley but neither Barnsley or Rotherham are even in the top 100 Tory target seats so I won't bother, if Labour lost either it would be to the Brexit Party not the Tories
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584

    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    I don't think any politicians will want to hold a GE in December or January. So if it doesn't get called for November it'll be put off to February at the earliest.

    I could see 5th December but they won't want to go any further into winter than that,
    Since PB is Pedantic Betting (sometimes) I should point out that, technically, Dec 5th is late Autumn. Winter commences on 22nd Dec. ;)
    Pah, says who?

    In meteorological reckoning it's December, January and February in the UK.
    Oh yeah? Those climate types.... who listens to anything they say? Darned experts....
    True dat. https://twitter.com/paulcarfoot/status/1180038961395359744?s=21
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited October 2019
    GIN1138 said:

    Danny565 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    DougSeal said:

    GIN1138 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Can’t see there being an election before the spring - now with Jezza in the basement polling wiseZ

    How do they stop an election when they vote down the Queens Speech though?

    We've not had a government lose a vote on a QS since 1924 and at that point the pressure to disolve Parliament and have an election will be overwhelming IMO.
    Voting down the Queen’s Speech doesn’t trigger an election before 2022. Only a motion in one of the forms set out in the FTPA can do that. That’s the genius of the Act. The Queen’s Speech being voted down will have serious consequences. It’s just no one knows what they are yet.
    I'm aware FTPA means a QS isn't technically a confidence matter... But seriousy if the government loses a QS for the first time in 95 years do you seriously think the demand for an election can be ignored?
    Certainly. The opposition are not going to give Johnson an election until after 31 October. Quite a long time after IMHO.
    It's not about "giving" Boris Johnson an election it's about "giving" the British people an election so they can elect a government that actually actually govern.

    You can't seriously think you can get away with voting down a Queens Speech but refuse to allow the election that should inevitably follow that vote?
    Why not??
    Because it is not in any way acceptable that the country is left ungoverned!

    Do I really have to explain this?
    If the government feels they are unable to govern, they are free to resign. *shrug*

    Again: Labour MPs are politicians, they will do what's in their self-interest. Exactly the same as the Tories did when they refused an election when the polls weren't as good for them, and exactly the same as Brexiteers continue to do by refusing a second referendum now.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    GIN1138 said:

    Danny565 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    DougSeal said:

    GIN1138 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Can’t see there being an election before the spring - now with Jezza in the basement polling wiseZ

    How do they stop an election when they vote down the Queens Speech though?

    We've not had a government lose a vote on a QS since 1924 and at that point the pressure to disolve Parliament and have an election will be overwhelming IMO.
    Voting down the Queen’s Speech doesn’t trigger an election before 2022. Only a motion in one of the forms set out in the FTPA can do that. That’s the genius of the Act. The Queen’s Speech being voted down will have serious consequences. It’s just no one knows what they are yet.
    I'm aware FTPA means a QS isn't technically a confidence matter... But seriousy if the government loses a QS for the first time in 95 years do you seriously think the demand for an election can be ignored?
    Certainly. The opposition are not going to give Johnson an election until after 31 October. Quite a long time after IMHO.
    It's not about "giving" Boris Johnson an election it's about "giving" the British people an election so they can elect a government that actually actually govern.

    You can't seriously think you can get away with voting down a Queens Speech but refuse to allow the election that should inevitably follow that vote?
    Why not??
    Because it is not in any way acceptable that the country is left ungoverned!

    Do I really have to explain this?
    Maybe people don't want Clarity i.e. Brexit but fudge and delay. You might want Brexit but as an individual who posts on political websites for over a decade I don't think you represent the average UK citizen or voter...
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    HYUFD said:
    When asked why, the responses were:
    Er ... : 43%
    Don't Know : 26%
    I Luv Boris : 24%
    Whereabouts is Europe? : 7%
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019


    Yes that us indeed your delusion.

    What are the benefits?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited October 2019

    GIN1138 said:

    Danny565 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    DougSeal said:

    GIN1138 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Can’t see there being an election before the spring - now with Jezza in the basement polling wiseZ

    How do they stop an election when they vote down the Queens Speech though?

    We've not had a government lose a vote on a QS since 1924 and at that point the pressure to disolve Parliament and have an election will be overwhelming IMO.
    Voting down the Queen’s Speech doesn’t trigger an election before 2022. Only a motion in one of the forms set out in the FTPA can do that. That’s the genius of the Act. The Queen’s Speech being voted down will have serious consequences. It’s just no one knows what they are yet.
    I'm aware FTPA means a QS isn't technically a confidence matter... But seriousy if the government loses a QS for the first time in 95 years do you seriously think the demand for an election can be ignored?
    Certainly. The opposition are not going to give Johnson an election until after 31 October. Quite a long time after IMHO.
    It's not about "giving" Boris Johnson an election it's about "giving" the British people an election so they can elect a government that actually actually govern.

    You can't seriously think you can get away with voting down a Queens Speech but refuse to allow the election that should inevitably follow that vote?
    Why not??
    Because it is not in any way acceptable that the country is left ungoverned!

    Do I really have to explain this?
    Maybe people don't want Clarity i.e. Brexit but fudge and delay. You might want Brexit but as an individual who posts on political websites for over a decade I don't think you represent the average UK citizen or voter...
    Since Labour started denying the people an election their poll rating has been tanking. ;)
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even if every Tory seat in Scotland went SNP the Tories would have a majority of 152, bigger even than Thatcher's 1983 landslide, on tonight's Opinium
    Yes, but I don't believe the Tories will ever win Makerfield for instance in the near future or many of the other places you claim will make up a urst into tears! :cry:
    Obviously the result whatever it is would not reduce you to tears. I mean the abuse you would get off people. It can be quite intimidating canvassing in a safe Labour seat for the Tories up North. You get threats of physical violence and people shouting Tory scum... :wink:
    I canvassed in Coventry in 2001, I have canvassed numerous council estates in my canvassing experience (though often had more abuse in posher areas), I have seen it all
    lol - Coventry is in the Midlands and its the South Midlands at that! I am talking about really tough places. Like ex-mining areas or economically devastated areas in Yorkshire or elsewhere. They would love your southern accent! Go to somewhere like Barnsley for a weekends canvassing. I promise you they will not eat you but you find it very uncomfortable. They will view you as an outsider and with a Tory rosette on, an unwelcome one at that! I guarantee, when they say "your not from around here are you?" your blood runs cold after a few interactions...
    My sister lived and worked in Rotherham for a year, I have been there and nearby Barnsley but neither Barnsley or Rotherham are even in the top 100 Tory target seats so I won't bother, if Labour lost either it would be to the Brexit Party not the Tories
    You would find the same response in Don Valley or Bolsover IMO. I speak from personal experience with accents as mine is southern (southern compared to the local accents in the north where as you might think I was northern!) and it is the first thing they pick up on...
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    TGOHF2 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    I don't think any politicians will want to hold a GE in December or January. So if it doesn't get called for November it'll be put off to February at the earliest.

    I could see 5th December but they won't want to go any further into winter than that,
    Since PB is Pedantic Betting (sometimes) I should point out that, technically, Dec 5th is late Autumn. Winter commences on 22nd Dec. ;)
    Pah, says who?

    In meteorological reckoning it's December, January and February in the UK.
    Oh yeah? Those climate types.... who listens to anything they say? Darned experts....
    True dat. https://twitter.com/paulcarfoot/status/1180038961395359744?s=21
    Why does it not surprise me at all when Brexiteers are Climate Change Denialists?

    Anything on Anti-Vaccine/9-11 Conspiracies/Flat Earth/Blood Sucking Lizards In The Royal Family?
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Danny565 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    DougSeal said:

    GIN1138 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Can’t see there being an election before the spring - now with Jezza in the basement polling wiseZ

    How do they stop an election when they vote down the Queens Speech though?

    We've not had a government lose a vote on a QS since 1924 and at that point the pressure to disolve Parliament and have an election will be overwhelming IMO.
    Voting down the Queen’s Speech doesn’t trigger an election before 2022. Only a motion in one of the forms set out in the FTPA can do that. That’s the genius of the Act. The Queen’s Speech being voted down will have serious consequences. It’s just no one knows what they are yet.
    I'm aware FTPA means a QS isn't technically a confidence matter... But seriousy if the government loses a QS for the first time in 95 years do you seriously think the demand for an election can be ignored?
    Certainly. The opposition are not going to give Johnson an election until after 31 October. Quite a long time after IMHO.
    It's not about "giving" Boris Johnson an election it's about "giving" the British people an election so they can elect a government that actually actually govern.

    You can't seriously think you can get away with voting down a Queens Speech but refuse to allow the election that should inevitably follow that vote?
    Why not??
    Because it is not in any way acceptable that the country is left ungoverned!

    Do I really have to explain this?
    Maybe people don't want Clarity i.e. Brexit but fudge and delay. You might want Brexit but as an individual who posts on political websites for over a decade I don't think you represent the average UK citizen or voter...
    Since Labour started denying the people an election thier poll rating has beem tanking. ;)
    Not really it was shit before the election talk...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    TGOHF2 said:
    Cummings been having a drink again? ;)
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    nico67 said:


    I think this is a huge own goal . And not a great look if you’re trying to play the blame game . It will also cause huge anger amongst the 20 Tory rebels . This looks like a petulant child now throwing its toys out of the pram because it can’t get its way .

    You can see by the reaction of remainers to this announcement that it is going to go down well with voters.

    If remainers hate it then it's likely to be very good for leavers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,151

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even if every Tory seat in Scotland went SNP the Tories would have a majority of 152, bigger even than Thatcher's 1983 landslide, on tonight's Opinium
    Yes, but I don't believe the Tories will ever win Makerfield for instance in the near future or many of the other places you claim will make up a urst into tears! :cry:
    Obviously the result whatever it is would not reduce you to tears. ple shouting Tory scum... :wink:
    I canvassed in Coventry in 2001, I have canvassed numerous council estates in my canvassing experience (though often had more abuse in posher areas), I have seen it all
    lol - Coventry is in the Midlands and its the South Midlands at that! I am talking about really tough places. Like ex-mining areas or economically devastated areas in Yorkshire or elsewhere. They would love your southern accent! Go to somewhere like Barnsley for a weekends canvassing. I promise you they will not eat you?" your blood runs cold after a few interactions...
    My sister lived and worked in Rotherham for a year, I have been there and nearby Barnsley but neither Barnsley or Rotherham are even in the top 100 Tory target seats so I won't bother, if Labour lost either it would be to the Brexit Party not the Tories
    You would find the same response in Don Valley or Bolsover IMO. I speak from personal experience with accents as mine is southern (southern compared to the local accents in the north where as you might think I was northern!) and it is the first thing they pick up on...
    The Tory candidates for Don Valley and Bolsover were either Northern or Midlands last time and got swings towards them.

    I canvass in Essex and Hertfordshire seats and London seats, I only phone canvass elsewhere
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    TGOHF2 said:
    How could anyone take Brexit seriously (or the UK) if the PM starts behaving like that? It is beyond stupid. It is childish.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,151
    TGOHF2 said:
    Quite right, if diehard Remainers want to try a coup to stop Brexit they will have to have their fingers all over the gun, Boris is right not to budge
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even if every Tory seat in Scotland went SNP the Tories would have a majority of 152, bigger even than Thatcher's 1983 landslide, on tonight's Opinium
    Yes, but I don't believe the Tories will ever win Makerfield for instance in the near future or many of the other places you claim will make up a urst into tears! :cry:
    reats of physical violence and people shouting Tory scum... :wink:
    I canvassed in Coventry in 2001, I have canvassed numerous council estates in my canvassing experience (though often had more abuse in posher areas), I have seen it all
    lol - Coventry is in the Midlands and its the South Midlands at that! I am talking about really tough places. Like ex-mining areas or economically devastated areas in Yorkshire or elsewhere. They would love your southern accent! Go to somewhere like Barnsley for a weekends canvassing. I promise you they will not eat you but you find it very uncomfortable. They will view you as an outsider and with a Tory rosette on, an unwelcome one at that! I guarantee, when they say "your not from around here are you?" your blood runs cold after a few interactions...
    My sister lived and worked in Rotherham for a year, I have been there and nearby Barnsley but neither Barnsley or Rotherham are even in the top 100 Tory target seats so I won't bother, if Labour lost either it would be to the Brexit Party not the Tories
    You would find the same response in Don Valley or Bolsover IMO. I speak from personal experience with accents as mine is southern (southern compared to the local accents in the north where as you might think I was northern!) and it is the first thing they pick up on...
    Caroline Flint has a southern accent and represents Don Valley.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Danny565 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    DougSeal said:

    GIN1138 said:

    TGOHF2 said:

    Can’t see there being an election before the spring - now with Jezza in the basement polling wiseZ

    How do they stop an election when they vote down the Queens Speech though?

    We've not had a government lose a vote on a QS since 1924 and at that point the pressure to disolve Parliament and have an election will be overwhelming IMO.
    Voting down the Queen’s Speech doesn’t trigger an election before 2022. Only a motion in one of the forms set out in the FTPA can do that. That’s the genius of the Act. The Queen’s Speech being voted down will have serious consequences. It’s just no one knows what they are yet.
    I'm aware FTPA means a QS isn't technically a confidence matter... But seriousy if the government loses a QS for the first time in 95 years do you seriously think the demand for an election can be ignored?
    Certainly. The opposition are not going to give Johnson an election until after 31 October. Quite a long time after IMHO.
    It's not about "giving" Boris Johnson an election it's about "giving" the British people an election so they can elect a government that actually actually govern.

    You can't seriously think you can get away with voting down a Queens Speech but refuse to allow the election that should inevitably follow that vote?
    Why not??
    Because it is not in any way acceptable that the country is left ungoverned!

    Do I really have to explain this?
    Maybe people don't want Clarity i.e. Brexit but fudge and delay. You might want Brexit but as an individual who posts on political websites for over a decade I don't think you represent the average UK citizen or voter...
    Since Labour started denying the people an election thier poll rating has beem tanking. ;)
    Not really it was shit before the election talk...
    I know from bitter experience that there are different kinds of shit, some better than others. Personally, I'd prefer to be loose.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    AndyJS said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even if every Tory seat in Scotland went SNP the Tories would have a majority of 152, bigger even than Thatcher's 1983 landslide, on tonight's Opinium
    Yes, but I don't believe the Tories will ever win Makerfield for instance in the near future or many of the other places you claim will make up a urst into tears! :cry:
    reats of physical violence and people shouting Tory scum... :wink:
    I canvassed in Coventry in 2001, I have canvassed numerous council estates in my canvassing experience (though often had more abuse in posher areas), I have seen it all
    lol - Coventry is in the Midlands and its the South Midlands at that! I am talking about really tough places. Like ex-mining areas or economically devastated areas in Yorkshire or elsewhere. They would love your southern accent! Go to somewhere like Barnsley for a weekends canvassing. I promise you they will not eat you but you find it very uncomfortable. They will view you as an outsider and with a Tory rosette on, an unwelcome one at that! I guarantee, when they say "your not from around here are you?" your blood runs cold after a few interactions...
    My sister lived and worked in Rotherham for a year, I have been there and nearby Barnsley but neither Barnsley or Rotherham are even in the top 100 Tory target seats so I won't bother, if Labour lost either it would be to the Brexit Party not the Tories
    You would find the same response in Don Valley or Bolsover IMO. I speak from personal experience with accents as mine is southern (southern compared to the local accents in the north where as you might think I was northern!) and it is the first thing they pick up on...
    Caroline Flint has a southern accent and represents Don Valley.
    carpetbagger
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    AndyJS said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even if every Tory seat in Scotland went SNP the Tories would have a majority of 152, bigger even than Thatcher's 1983 landslide, on tonight's Opinium
    Yes, but I don't believe the Tories will ever win Makerfield for instance in the near future or many of the other places you claim will make up a urst into tears! :cry:
    reats of physical violence and people shouting Tory scum... :wink:
    I canvassed in Coventry in 2001, I have canvassed numerous council estates in my canvassing experience (though often had more abuse in posher areas), I have seen it all
    lol - Coventry is in the Midlands and its the South Midlands at that! I am talking about really tough places. Like ex-mining areas or economically devastated areas in Yorkshire or elsewhere. They would love your southern accent! Go to somewhere like Barnsley for a weekends canvassing. I promise you they willone at that! I guarantee, when they say "your not from around here are you?" your blood runs cold after a few interactions...
    My sister lived and worked in Rotherham for a year, I have been there and nearby Barnsley but neither Barnsley or Rotherham are even in the top 100 Tory target seats so I won't bother, if Labour lost either it would be to the Brexit Party not the Tories
    You would find the same response in Don Valley or Bolsover IMO. I speak from personal experience with accents as mine is southern (southern compared to the local accents in the north where as you might think I was northern!) and it is the first thing they pick up on...
    Caroline Flint has a southern accent and represents Don Valley.
    Nick Clegg in Sheffield. That bloke Tony Blair in Sedgefield.

    Both had the broadest local northern accents. Both never amounted to much. Mere footnotes.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106


    How could anyone take Brexit seriously (or the UK) if the PM starts behaving like that? It is beyond stupid. It is childish.

    Vote the deal or vote for a GE then.

    Either of those options are the grown up choices that remainers seem terrified to take.



  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    I feel like the Scarlet Pimpernel, but I'm gone
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF2 said:
    Quite right, if diehard Remainers want to try a coup to stop Brexit they will have to have their fingers all over the gun, Boris is right not to budge
    Is Boris doesn't budge, he'll be the one with his fingerprints on the extension request.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    SunnyJim said:


    How could anyone take Brexit seriously (or the UK) if the PM starts behaving like that? It is beyond stupid. It is childish.

    Vote the deal or vote for a GE then.

    Either of those options are the grown up choices that remainers seem terrified to take.
    You are talking to the wrong audience. You need to be saying that to Labour supporters or the ERG.

    The govt is already ignoring MY wishes. There is no point in telling ME what I should be doing :D
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019
    Floater said:

    AndyJS said:
    Hmm - I keep getting told the tories and Boris are shit yet I look at the polls....
    It's almost as if we lived in an oligarchy and their allies controlled the media...
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF2 said:
    Quite right, if diehard Remainers want to try a coup to stop Brexit they will have to have their fingers all over the gun, Boris is right not to budge
    Is Boris doesn't budge, he'll be the one with his fingerprints on the extension request.
    If Boris does not budge, his fingerprints will be on one of those little cards in a file with the photo with a number under it and details of his arrest... ;)
  • Thin gruel in the Sundays: The Acuri affair seems to be widening but not deepening. That Boris had affairs and that politicans exert influence is in the price. While the drip, drip, drip of this stuff helps level the killing field - reducing Boris' new toy shine - it's not fatal or even particularly serious. What we need is evidence of actual corruption and so far we haven't had any.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,151
    edited October 2019

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF2 said:
    Quite right, if diehard Remainers want to try a coup to stop Brexit they will have to have their fingers all over the gun, Boris is right not to budge
    Is Boris doesn't budge, he'll be the one with his fingerprints on the extension request.
    As Cummings has made clear the government will set out to sabotage extension by any means possible, including presumably letters rescinding any prior extension request required by law.

    If the diehard Remainers insist on then replacing him with a die hard Remainer PM that PM would then implement the extension, though as Swinson will veto Corbyn as PM and Corbyn will veto Beckett or Clarke as PM if Boris loses a VONC a general election is most likely inevitable in late November or early October
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    edited October 2019
    Mango said:

    Floater said:

    AndyJS said:
    Hmm - I keep getting told the tories and Boris are shit yet I look at the polls....
    It's almost as if we lived in an oligarchy and their allies controlled the media...
    It is amazing I admit. The Guardian, Observer, Mirror, Evening Standard, Independent, Financial Times, The Times, Sky News, Channel 4 News, thousands of twitterati journalists and anyone who has an opinion, online news such as Huffington Post, Politico....all rabid Brexiteers controller by this oligarchy.

    One would be stupid to actually think there is any remain media at all. Anywhere. It’s so difficult to find.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:
    The UNS figures would be very different - and more realistic.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF2 said:
    Quite right, if diehard Remainers want to try a coup to stop Brexit they will have to have their fingers all over the gun, Boris is right not to budge
    Is Boris doesn't budge, he'll be the one with his fingerprints on the extension request.
    As Cummings has made clear the government will set out to sabotage extension by any means possible, including presumably letters rescinding any prior extension request required by law.

    If the diehard Remainers insist on then replacing him with a die hard Remainer PM that PM would then implement the extension, though as Swinson will veto Corbyn as PM and Corbyn will veto Beckett or Clarke as PM if Boris loses a VONC a general election is most likely inevitable in late November or early October
    Why would the diehard Remainers want to put him out of his misery? Let him humiliate himself with futile gestures that only demonstrate his impotence.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,151
    edited October 2019

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF2 said:
    Quite right, if diehard Remainers want to try a coup to stop Brexit they will have to have their fingers all over the gun, Boris is right not to budge
    Is Boris doesn't budge, he'll be the one with his fingerprints on the extension request.
    As Cummings has made clear the government will set out to sabotage extension by any means possible, including presumably letters rescinding any prior extension request required by law.

    If the diehard Remainers insist on then replacing him with a die hard Remainer PM that PM would then implement the extension, though as Swinson will veto Corbyn as PM and Corbyn will veto Beckett or Clarke as PM if Boris loses a VONC a general election is most likely inevitable in late November or early October
    Why would the diehard Remainers want to put him out of his misery? Let him humiliate himself with futile gestures that only demonstrate his impotence.
    Put him out of his misery? Ha ha ha ha ha!!!!

    Boris is heading for the biggest Tory landslide since Baldwin if tonight's Opinium is correct while more voters now back the Boris proposals to the EU than oppose them, if the EU reject them the voters will be fully behind Boris in sabotaging any extension request
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106


    Why would the diehard Remainers want to put him out of his misery? Let him humiliate himself with futile gestures that only demonstrate his impotence.

    It is remainer MPs who are doing all the heavy lifting for the Tories.

    They claim to be horrified at the thought of a no-deal Brexit and yet are ready to vote down a deal that would avoid that.

    They are ready to vote down a QS but are scared of a VoNC in case they have to face the electorate.

    Voters aren't stupid and the fact remainers are taking them for fools is a likely to be a huge polling boost to the Tories.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    AndyJS said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even if every Tory seat in Scotland went SNP the Tories would have a majority of 152, bigger even than Thatcher's 1983 landslide, on tonight's Opinium
    Yes, but I don't believe the Tories will ever win Makerfield for instance in the near future or many of the other places you claim will make up a urst into tears! :cry:
    reats of physical violence and people shouting Tory scum... :wink:
    I canvassed in Coventry in 2001, I have canvassed numerous council estates in my canvassing experience (though often had more abuse in posher areas), I have seen it all
    lol - Coventry is in the ..
    My sister lived and worked in Rotherham for a year, I have been there and nearby Barnsley but neither Barnsley or Rotherham are even in the top 100 Tory target seats so I won't bother, if Labour lost either it would be to the Brexit Party not the Tories
    You would find the same response in Don Valley or Bolsover IMO. I speak from personal experience with accents as mine is southern (southern compared to the local accents in the north where as you might think I was northern!) and it is the first thing they pick up on...
    Caroline Flint has a southern accent and represents Don Valley.
    She is a Labour MP or candidate pre 1997 (she never had the instant problem of being a Tory in a safe Labour seat). I suspect some in DV objected to her due to her being an outsider but not in huge numbers. A Tory will get a different reception to Labour or LD. It also varies from seat to seat as some areas are more local centric in comparison to others. You can always find exceptions!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TGOHF2 said:
    Quite right, if diehard Remainers want to try a coup to stop Brexit they will have to have their fingers all over the gun, Boris is right not to budge
    Is Boris doesn't budge, he'll be the one with his fingerprints on the extension request.
    As Cummings has made clear the government will set out to sabotage extension by any means possible, including presumably letters rescinding any prior extension request required by law.

    If the diehard Remainers insist on then replacing him with a die hard Remainer PM that PM would then implement the extension, though as Swinson will veto Corbyn as PM and Corbyn will veto Beckett or Clarke as PM if Boris loses a VONC a general election is most likely inevitable in late November or early October
    Why would the diehard Remainers want to put him out of his misery? Let him humiliate himself with futile gestures that only demonstrate his impotence.
    Put him out of his misery? Ha ha ha ha ha!!!!

    Boris is heading for the biggest Tory landslide since Baldwin if tonight's Opinium is correct while more voters now back the Boris proposals to the EU than oppose them, if the EU reject them the voters will be fully behind Boris in sabotaging any extension request
    He can't win a landslide unless the opposition give him an election and he can't sabotage an extension request because there's he doesn't have any effective cards to play.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106


    He can't win a landslide unless the opposition give him an election and he can't sabotage an extension request because there's he doesn't have any effective cards to play.

    Government resigns.
  • Thin gruel in the Sundays: The Opinium figures are perfectly in line with ' conference bounces ' and their unwinds. They are also inline with recent other Opiniums. We'll have to wait for the full BMG figures but from what we've had they look unremarkable in the circumstances.
  • AndyJS said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Even if every Tory seat in Scotland went SNP the Tories would have a majority of 152, bigger even than Thatcher's 1983 landslide, on tonight's Opinium
    Yes, but I don't believe the Tories will ever win Makerfield for instance in the near future or many of the other places you claim will make up a urst into tears! :cry:
    reats of physical violence and people shouting Tory scum... :wink:
    I canvassed in Coventry in 2001, I have canvassed numerous council estates in my canvassing experience (though often had more abuse in posher areas), I have seen it all
    lol - Coventry is in the Midlands and its the South Midlands at that! I am talking about really tough places. Like ex-mining areas or economically devastated areas in Yorkshire or elsewhere. They would love your southern accent! Go to somewhere like Barnsley for a weekends canvassing. I promise you they will not eat you but you find it very uncomfortable. They will view you as an outsider and with a Tory rosette on, an unwelcome one at that! I guarantee, when they say "your not from around here are you?" your blood runs cold after a few interactions...
    My sister lived and worked in Rotherham for a year, I have been there and nearby Barnsley but neither Barnsley or Rotherham are even in the top 100 Tory target seats so I won't bother, if Labour lost either it would be to the Brexit Party not the Tories
    You would find the same response in Don Valley or Bolsover IMO. I speak from personal experience with accents as mine is southern (southern compared to the local accents in the north where as you might think I was northern!) and it is the first thing they pick up on...
    Caroline Flint has a southern accent and represents Don Valley.
    Justine Greening has a northern accent and represents Putney.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    SunnyJim said:


    He can't win a landslide unless the opposition give him an election and he can't sabotage an extension request because there's he doesn't have any effective cards to play.

    Government resigns.
    So he's not going to dare the Queen to sack him?
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106


    So he's not going to dare the Queen to sack him?

    Once remainer MPs have enraged the electorate by refusing to vote for a deal he's going to drag Labour to the ballot box and force them to face the electorate.

    You should be pleased, it is the best chance for Sindy...and there are millions of us south of the border rooting for you, believe me.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019
    edited October 2019
    TGOHF2 said:



    I conclude that there is a reason you haven’t mentioned the figure for Jezza..

    Benpointer is not a whatabouting twat who thinks the only way to run a country is to have either Tories or Labour trashing the joint for a decade at a time?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    SunnyJim said:


    So he's not going to dare the Queen to sack him?

    Once remainer MPs have enraged the electorate by refusing to vote for a deal he's going to drag Labour to the ballot box and force them to face the electorate.

    You should be pleased, it is the best chance for Sindy...and there are millions of us south of the border rooting for you, believe me.
    I'm English and live in England. Not sure what led you to think otherwise.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Leavers are now so obsessed with Brexit that they now support a PM effectively refusing to step aside if he lost a VONC .

    At this point Bozo could do absolutely anything and they’d still be there supporting him.

  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106


    I'm English and live in England. Not sure what led you to think otherwise.

    Ah, apologies, mistook you for the SNP supporter.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    nico67 said:

    Leavers are now so obsessed with Brexit that they now support a PM effectively refusing to step aside if he lost a VONC .

    At this point Bozo could do absolutely anything and they’d still be there supporting him.

    The problem is the opposition don't want an election because they think they'd lose it.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019
    HYUFD said:



    I would not burst into tears if the Tories did not get a majority of 152 (I certainly did not in 2017) I might do if they did though, having campaigned for the Tories for over 20 years it would be quite a shock to get such a big win

    Ah yes, the famous "fuck business", "fuck trade deals, let's go WTO", and "restart the Troubles" Tory manifesto of 1997.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    nico67 said:

    Leavers are now so obsessed with Brexit that they now support a PM effectively refusing to step aside if he lost a VONC .

    At this point Bozo could do absolutely anything and they’d still be there supporting him.

    When are the opposition planning to find a backbone and go for a VoNC?

    Labour and ex-Tories are terrified of the ballot box.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,883
    edited October 2019
    SunnyJim said:

    nico67 said:

    Leavers are now so obsessed with Brexit that they now support a PM effectively refusing to step aside if he lost a VONC .

    At this point Bozo could do absolutely anything and they’d still be there supporting him.

    When are the opposition planning to find a backbone and go for a VoNC?

    Labour and ex-Tories are terrified of the ballot box.
    When are the Leavers planning to find a backbone and go for a second referendum?

    Tories and Brexiteers are terrified of the ballot box.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited October 2019
    SunnyJim said:

    nico67 said:

    Leavers are now so obsessed with Brexit that they now support a PM effectively refusing to step aside if he lost a VONC .

    At this point Bozo could do absolutely anything and they’d still be there supporting him.

    When are the opposition planning to find a backbone and go for a VoNC?

    Labour and ex-Tories are terrified of the ballot box.
    Keep repeating it - someone might believe you.

    The real truth is that Boris and the Tories are desperate for that election before 31st Oct. After that date, Boris will not want the election any more than the level heads in Labour (I believe that Corbyn would call an election tomorrow if he could. I think that he actually thinks he would win)

    BTW - you do know that "Sunny Jim" was the nickname for a Labour PM in the 70s?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    I'm busy right now, but there is one delusion that is strong on here.

    No Dealers believe that once their goal has been achieved, Remainers will just roll over and say "oh well, that's it" and get on with their lives. (A bit like Labour in Scotland in 2014...)

    Remainers believe that if they get the referendum result overturned, then suddenly all the Leavers will shrug their shoulders and say "Well, I guess the people chose to stay after all...", and will then take up gardening or complaining about modern music.

    But I can't for the life of me think of how to purge this delustion...
  • Artist said:
    Or will it be 8 failed attempts?
  • Thin gruel in the Sundays: Loads of Brexit process stories but nothing new in terms of either type or severity. I think we can conclude everyone is taking stock of last week before making their next moves.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm busy right now, but there is one delusion that is strong on here.

    No Dealers believe that once their goal has been achieved, Remainers will just roll over and say "oh well, that's it" and get on with their lives. (A bit like Labour in Scotland in 2014...)

    Remainers believe that if they get the referendum result overturned, then suddenly all the Leavers will shrug their shoulders and say "Well, I guess the people chose to stay after all...", and will then take up gardening or complaining about modern music.

    But I can't for the life of me think of how to purge this delustion...

    You cannot. One scenario or the other has to play out. Brexit has ripped the country apart, socially at least. I have no idea how long it will take to recover.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm busy right now, but there is one delusion that is strong on here.

    No Dealers believe that once their goal has been achieved, Remainers will just roll over and say "oh well, that's it" and get on with their lives. (A bit like Labour in Scotland in 2014...)

    Remainers believe that if they get the referendum result overturned, then suddenly all the Leavers will shrug their shoulders and say "Well, I guess the people chose to stay after all...", and will then take up gardening or complaining about modern music.

    But I can't for the life of me think of how to purge this delustion...

    Have you noticed the delusion of those who think that if they can engineer an outcome in which both sides lose, they will both give up?
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106


    Keep repeating it - someone might believe you.

    The real truth is that Boris and the Tories are desperate for that election before 31st Oct. After that date, Boris will not want the election any more than the level heads in Labour (I believe that Corbyn would call an election tomorrow if he could. I think that he actually thinks he would win)

    BTW - you do know that "Sunny Jim" was the nickname for a Labour PM in the 70s?


    Parliament aren't going to use an extension to search for a deal, we all know that.

    There is no point in dragging the process out; either vote for a deal or vote for a GE.

    I really don't care which but whilst remainers are playing their games democracy is being diminished and parliament is a laughing stock.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106


    When are the Leavers planning to find a backbone and go for a second referendum?

    Tories and Brexiteers are terrified of the ballot box.

    Once we have implemented the result of the first referendum then any party is welcome to take the honest route and offer R2 or rejoin in their manifesto at a subsequent GE.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Thin gruel in the Sundays: The Acuri affair seems to be widening but not deepening. That Boris had affairs and that politicans exert influence is in the price. While the drip, drip, drip of this stuff helps level the killing field - reducing Boris' new toy shine - it's not fatal or even particularly serious. What we need is evidence of actual corruption and so far we haven't had any.

    Arcuri’s business partner was Tom Hayes, the first trader to be jailed on 8 counts of conspiracy to commit fraud in relation to LIBOR.

    So two questions from me:-

    1. Was he paid any money by Arcuri or her companies?

    And, if so,

    2. Where did that money come from?
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106


    You cannot. One scenario or the other has to play out. Brexit has ripped the country apart, socially at least. I have no idea how long it will take to recover.

    Remainers are ripping the country apart by refusing to accept the result of the referendum.

    The democratically 'safe' way of this playing out:

    1. Leave the EU

    2. Campaign for R2 or Rejoin on the basis of a GE manifesto commitment

    If we left and at some point in the future voted to rejoin then I would be just as disappointed at any leavers who were refusing to accept the will of the people.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2019
    What a depressing state British politics is in at the moment, whichever side you're on. What happened to the optimism of the 1990s?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    AndyJS said:

    What a depressing state British politics is in at the moment, whichever side you're on. What happened to the optimism of the 1990s?

    Blair chose to spend his political capital on Iraq instead of joining the Euro.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    AndyJS said:

    What a depressing state British politics is in at the moment, whichever side you're on. What happened to the optimism of the 1990s?

    Well, it's been worse before. Problem is, it then got better, but now it's worse again. I don't think I want to wait for the cycle to go round again... :(
  • AndyJS said:

    What a depressing state British politics is in at the moment, whichever side you're on. What happened to the optimism of the 1990s?

    Iraq, the MPs expenses scandal, the Crash, trebling Tuition Fees, Austerity, the rise of nationalisms around #Indyref and now the Brexit debacle. The country has been through a series of highly divisive policy extremes coupled with key institutions of state malfunctioning then being widely discredited. No matter what the outcome now with Brexit it will satisfy almost noone and be quickly judged a failure by a majority of the cou try. We are heading into the next recession without having closed the deficit from the first. We'll have #Indyref2 sooner or later. Even welsh nationalism is stirring from its incredibly low base. I suspect we aren't even half way through this yet.
  • Artist said:
    Good. The sooner the Tories realise he's not transactional and won't go away if he's given what he wants the better. Even I wonder if it might be best if he finally wins a seat.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    SunnyJim said:


    The democratically 'safe' way of this playing out:

    1. Leave the EU

    2. Campaign for R2 or Rejoin on the basis of a GE manifesto commitment

    If we left and at some point in the future voted to rejoin then I would be just as disappointed at any leavers who were refusing to accept the will of the people.

    If Britain manages to leave the line you'll switch to is that leavers had to wait 30 years after losing in 1975, so it won't be democratically acceptable to ask the voters if they want to rejoin until 2050.
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 438
    edited October 2019
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm busy right now, but there is one delusion that is strong on here.

    No Dealers believe that once their goal has been achieved, Remainers will just roll over and say "oh well, that's it" and get on with their lives. (A bit like Labour in Scotland in 2014...)

    Remainers believe that if they get the referendum result overturned, then suddenly all the Leavers will shrug their shoulders and say "Well, I guess the people chose to stay after all...", and will then take up gardening or complaining about modern music.

    But I can't for the life of me think of how to purge this delustion...

    How about honour the result and leave, and then salami tactics our way right back in again.

    Leavers have an advantage, they won the ref. I would argue they are now at massive disadvantage because they will never get another one over the line again. The slogan wasn’t leave, it was take back control which seemed exciting on the day, but is the most vacuous piece of blithering shit 3 years later, also the type of leave promised was security of a deal brexit that would be the easiest of easy things to achieve.

    Not that I argue have another ref to annul the first. Do something called Brexit and the majority of voters will always now be behind sliding our way back in again.

    One proviso. We weren’t actually in it, we havnt been signed up to ever closer union for a while. In the rejoin deal U.K. and EU need to declare the different lanes nature of our relationship, and once that’s agreed just get on and do smart business together.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Artist said:
    Good. The sooner the Tories realise he's not transactional and won't go away if he's given what he wants the better. Even I wonder if it might be best if he finally wins a seat.
    I think he would win the seat if we haven't left the EU at the time of the election. It's definitely the Brexit Party's best shot.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616

    Thin gruel in the Sundays: The Opinium figures are perfectly in line with ' conference bounces ' and their unwinds. They are also inline with recent other Opiniums. We'll have to wait for the full BMG figures but from what we've had they look unremarkable in the circumstances.

    Govt. in office but not in power, unable to get its central plank of business through the House, unable to call an election - is 15% ahead.

    Main opposition party is polling barely half what it achieved in the last election.

    One in four LibDems have walked away from the party since the last poll.

    Govt. on these figures would be returned with a massive majority, the opposition broken.

    "Unremarkable" has become seriously debased!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    SunnyJim said:


    I will reply. The EU needs people who will help it function. Not people dedicated to its destruction. This much is obvious to anyone who is not a complete monomaniac.

    If the only way the EU can function is with drones whilst accusing anybody with a dissenting view as a 'monomaniac' then it tells you all you need to know about it as an organisation.
    Nigel Farage wants to destroy the EU. No sane organisation gives such a person a position of responsibility in its running.
    The SNP/SF want to destroy the UK yet Corbyn would quite happily work with both if he ever ran the country.
    numpty
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106



    If Britain manages to leave the line you'll switch to is that leavers had to wait 30 years after losing in 1975, so it won't be democratically acceptable to ask the voters if they want to rejoin until 2050.

    If the commitment was in a manifesto and that party was elected to government then there could be no argument.

    Democracy would have been seen to be respected.

This discussion has been closed.