I wonder whether the PM and A-G would agree with the following:-
"And you know, my friends, the most difficult thing is to explain what a rule of law is, as distinct from just an oppressive law. They say,
Or this:-
The third guarantee of liberty is the rule of law. The idea that all are equal under the law is deeply rooted in our democratic systems and nowhere else..... The thought that no one in the state can escape the law is, after all, a daring one...... This is not a thought which the powerful can easily accept. Those who hold sway in totalitarian states take good care that the rule of law does not challenge their authority."
You realize all of the above applies, with some fierce poignancy, to the Establishment which now seeks to subvert the democratic brexit vote. Right?
The Establishment - whoever that is - are seeking to avoid a disorderly withdrawal from the EU. That incidentally is in line with the manifesto on which the government was elected. There are those who would prefer to remain in the EU and they are entitled to think that and campaign for it and vote for it and take the consequences at the next election. Losing a vote does not mean that you are no longer entitled to say what you think and act on it.
MPs want a different deal. They are being obstructed from that because the current government has no negotiating strategy and has prioritised a date over getting a deal. It has also done absolutely nothing about trying to get any sort of consensus about what such a deal might look like. It is now stuck. It doesn't like this. The fact that this is in large part a result of its own idiotic actions seems to have passed it by. And in consequence it is lashing out at anyone and everyone instead of growing up and taking responsibility.
You excuse all wanky Remainer behavior. But condemn the same from all Leavers. It renders your opinion absurd and otiose, as you are so obviously biased.
The truth is we have been failed by our entire political class (and beyond), from left to right, from leave to stay.
It’s difficult to think of one figure who has come out of this calamity with his/her reputation enhanced. But I’m going to have a go. There must be one. Must be. Surely.
The person who is doing worst tonight is Nigel Farage.
He completely misjudged the mood of potential Brexit Party voters and has completely shot himself in the foot. Brexit Party voters are going to love the shit out of Johnson's performance today and calling on him to resign was a rookie error my Farage.
I genuinely don't understand what Johnson is trying to say here. He says we should leave with a deal on 31 October. But he also says we should have a general election now. But it's physically impossible to do both, as the earliest date we can have an election is 31 October, by which time we will have either left without a deal or extended under the Benn bill. So what's he on about? Does he think we're all idiots?
This parliamentary swithering is just pointless. Every time an opposition MP stands up to hurl the same boring rant at Boris, the viewer is left to think; well then just call an election??
Labour’s refusal to demand a GE is gonna hurt them.
It already has hurt them and will continue to do so.
I genuinely don't understand what Johnson is trying to say here. He says we should leave with a deal on 31 October. But he also says we should have a general election now. But it's physically impossible to do both, as the earliest date we can have an election is 31 October, by which time we will have either left without a deal or extended under the Benn bill. So what's he on about? Does he think we're all idiots?
I genuinely don't understand what Johnson is trying to say here. He says we should leave with a deal on 31 October. But he also says we should have a general election now. But it's physically impossible to do both, as the earliest date we can have an election is 31 October, by which time we will have either left without a deal or extended under the Benn bill. So what's he on about? Does he think we're all idiots?
I genuinely don't understand what Johnson is trying to say here. He says we should leave with a deal on 31 October. But he also says we should have a general election now. But it's physically impossible to do both, as the earliest date we can have an election is 31 October, by which time we will have either left without a deal or extended under the Benn bill. So what's he on about? Does he think we're all idiots?
He’s going to go into opposition and nick Nigel Farage’s schtick.
Johnson is making a bad situation even worse because he doesn't care about institutions or the law. Parliament has behaved disgracefully, but his criticism of them not being without merit does not force him to take action to escalate things even further. That's his personal choice, and one taken purely because he is afraid of BXP.
And Corbyn won't table a motion of no confidence - which would enable MPs to give Johnson the boot - purely because he's afraid that it'll precipitate an election in which he'll go down to another defeat that will break both his grip and that of his faction on the Labour Party.
The high commands of both Government and Opposition are, in fact, both acting out of political self-interest. I'm shocked, I tell you. Truly shocked.
But if Corbyn does that it will lead to leaving without a deal, because Johnson won't extend and can't bring a deal to a vote if parliament isn't sitting.
I wonder whether the PM and A-G would agree with the following:-
"And you know, my friends, the most difficult thing is to explain what a rule of law is, as distinct from just an oppressive law. They say,
Or this:-
The third guarantee of liberty is the rule of law. The idea that all are equal under the law is deeply rooted in our democratic systems and nowhere else..... The thought that no one in the state can escape the law is, after all, a daring one...... This is not a thought which the powerful can easily accept. Those who hold sway in totalitarian states take good care that the rule of law does not challenge their authority."
You realize all of the above applies, with some fierce poignancy, to the Establishment which now seeks to subvert the democratic brexit vote. Right?
The Establishment - whoever that is - are seeking to avoid a disorderly withdrawal from the EU. That incidentally is in line with the manifesto on which the government was elected. There are those who would prefer to remain in the EU and they are entitled to think that and campaign for it and vote for it and take the consequences at the next election. Losing a vote does not mean that you are no longer entitled to say what you think and act on it.
MPs want a different deal. They are being obstructed from that because the current government has no negotiating strategy and has prioritised a date over getting a deal. It has also done absolutely nothing about trying to get any sort of consensus about what such a deal might look like. It is now stuck. It doesn't like this. The fact that this is in large part a result of its own idiotic actions seems to have passed it by. And in consequence it is lashing out at anyone and everyone instead of growing up and taking responsibility.
You excuse all wanky Remainer behavior. But condemn the same from all Leavers. It renders your opinion absurd and otiose, as you are so obviously biased.
The truth is we have been failed by our entire political class (and beyond), from left to right, from leave to stay.
It’s difficult to think of one figure who has come out of this calamity with his/her reputation enhanced. But I’m going to have a go. There must be one. Must be. Surely.
I’m thinking now.
Still thinking.
Christ.
Um...
Andrew Neil?
Caroline Flint.
Rory Stewart. He consistently argued at length for May's Deal, which would have got us out by now.
From what I've seen the Conservative Party has plumbed new depths. Whatever they are now, they are not a conservative party in any meaningful, traditional way.
Whatever depths you perceive the Conservatives to have plumbed they will still be a good number of fathoms above Labour at the next GE.
How the fuck did we manage to end up with Boris Johnson?
Discuss
Labour not whipping to support WA irrespective of ERG nuts.
If that had passed we would have been in the transition period and we would be talking about pasty taxes like the old days.
Why would the opposition be convinced of the government's argument if their own party was not? Why should they on any case support the government? It's not their job.
Besides- if there had been any risk of MV1/2 going through on predominantly opposition votes, TMay would have been out of No 10 faster than you could say "Graham Brady's postbox".
As happened when she inched towards a compromise to allow the deal to go to a referendum.
From what I've seen the Conservative Party has plumbed new depths. Whatever they are now, they are not a conservative party in any meaningful, traditional way.
Whatever depths you perceive the Conservatives to have plumbed they will still be a good number of fathoms above Labour at the next GE.
The person who is doing worst tonight is Nigel Farage.
He completely misjudged the mood of potential Brexit Party voters and has completely shot himself in the foot. Brexit Party voters are going to love the shit out of Johnson's performance today and calling on him to resign was a rookie error my Farage.
2d chess: rookie error from Farage. 3d chess: rookie error from Farage, BXP voters go to CON 4d chess: 'rookie error' from Farage, BXP polling VI goes to CON, opposition continue to block election, PM has to extend, CON voters return to BXP with interest.
"Or Johnson with his messy hair, ill-fitting clothes, classical aphorisms, rather-too-pleased-with-itself wit and carefully crafted bumbling persona. That either of them should be viewed as serious contenders for the highest office suggests a failure to listen to what they say, to see that they mostly talk nonsense, sometimes dangerous, ill thought-out and harmful nonsense. It is a measure of how out of ideas and talent the Tories seem to be that amateurish eccentricity, incompetence in office and Boys Own enthusiasm are even thought of as serious contenders."
He was born from a parliament who ruthlessly defenestrated and crucified a well meaning honest hard working but ultimately weak woman who had negotiated a deal in good faith and presented it to them for agreement.
He was the one who led the ruthless defenestration and crucification! Not because he thought she was wrong, but because he wanted her job and couldnt wait a couple of years.
He did. I’m not denying that. But every MP who refused to back the deal from both sides of the House bear responsibility. Narrow party advantage for some and an outright refusal to accept leave from others.
How long did May stand at the dispatch box and face laughter and ridicule from ALL sides. She was lampooned from the left, right and middle. For what? Getting an agreement for an orderly withdrawal. Some may not have liked the finer details but Christ alive we now see the results of a compete lack of pragmatism, compromise and consideration for the National interest.
I have some sympathy with that view, there is blame on (nearly) all sides. The two PMs have set the agenda though, and, for almost opposite reasons, have failed. A PM with Mays hard work, sense of duty, attention to detail, and Johnsons salesmanship would have been fine.
I wonder whether the PM and A-G would agree with the following:-
"And you know, my friends, the most difficult thing is to explain what a rule of law is, as distinct from just an oppressive law. They say,
Or this:-
The third guarantee of liberty is the rule of law. The idea that all are equal under the law is deeply rooted in our democratic systems and nowhere else..... The thought that no one in the state can escape the law is, after all, a daring one...... This is not a thought which the powerful can easily accept. Those who hold sway in totalitarian states take good care that the rule of law does not challenge their authority."
You realize all of the above applies, with some fierce poignancy, to the Establishment which now seeks to subvert the democratic brexit vote. Right?
The Establishment - whoever that is - are seeking to avoid a disorderly withdrawal from the EU. That incidentally is in line with the manifesto on which the government was elected. There are those who would prefer to remain in the EU and they are entitled to think that and campaign for it and vote for it and take the consequences at the next election. Losing a vote does not mean that you are no longer entitled to say what you think and act on it.
MPs want a different deal. They are being obstructed from that because the current government has no negotiating strategy and has prioritised a date over getting a deal. It has also done absolutely nothing about trying to get any sort of consensus about what such a deal might look like. It is now stuck. It doesn't like this. The fact that this is in large part a result of its own idiotic actions seems to have passed it by. And in consequence it is lashing out at anyone and everyone instead of growing up and taking responsibility.
You excuse all wanky Remainer behavior. But condemn the same from all Leavers. It renders your opinion absurd and otiose, as you are so obviously biased.
The truth is we have been failed by our entire political class (and beyond), from left to right, from leave to stay.
It’s difficult to think of one figure who has come out of this calamity with his/her reputation enhanced. But I’m going to have a go. There must be one. Must be. Surely.
I’m thinking now.
Still thinking.
Christ.
Um...
Andrew Neil?
Caroline Flint.
Rory Stewart. He consistently argued at length for May's Deal, which would have got us out by now.
I was going to say "that was his job to do so" but then I remembered that most of the government went missing rather than do so.
From what I've seen the Conservative Party has plumbed new depths. Whatever they are now, they are not a conservative party in any meaningful, traditional way.
Whatever depths you perceive the Conservatives to have plumbed they will still be a good number of fathoms above Labour at the next GE.
Doesn't make them a conservative party though. It makes them a populist rabble of ideologues.
Why would the opposition be convinced of the government's argument if their own party was not? Why should they on any case support the government? It's not their job.
And that is why polling shows a huge number of voters believe the remainer dominated parliament is to blame for Brexit not being delivered.
You could argue this is unfair but ultimately what matters is the ballot box at the next GE and Labour are going to be humiliated.
Would have been different if they hadn't wanted to play silly games but there you go.
I genuinely don't understand what Johnson is trying to say here. He says we should leave with a deal on 31 October. But he also says we should have a general election now. But it's physically impossible to do both, as the earliest date we can have an election is 31 October, by which time we will have either left without a deal or extended under the Benn bill. So what's he on about? Does he think we're all idiots?
From what I've seen the Conservative Party has plumbed new depths. Whatever they are now, they are not a conservative party in any meaningful, traditional way.
Whatever depths you perceive the Conservatives to have plumbed they will still be a good number of fathoms above Labour at the next GE.
Doesn't make them a conservative party though. It makes them a populist rabble of ideologues.
But it is not for the PM to lecture Parliament but for the PM to work within the constraints which the voters have laid down when they voted this Parliament into office.
Unfortunately this Parliament is Janus-faced. Most MPs were elected on manifestos that promised to respect the result of the referendum, but they also can't agree on any form of Brexit (AND, I strongly suspect, behind this is the simple fact that most of them don't want to leave the EU at all.)
The only way that the PM can respect the constraints provided by this Parliament, given that it refuses to terminate itself, is to ask the EU for an extension to 2022, go on holiday for the next two-and-a-half years, and wait until it is forced to an end by the expiry of its term. It would be far preferable were there to be a dissolution - then voters might get some honesty about what the various politicians are really offering. At least from some of the parties.
The person who is doing worst tonight is Nigel Farage.
He completely misjudged the mood of potential Brexit Party voters and has completely shot himself in the foot. Brexit Party voters are going to love the shit out of Johnson's performance today and calling on him to resign was a rookie error my Farage.
I genuinely don't understand what Johnson is trying to say here. He says we should leave with a deal on 31 October. But he also says we should have a general election now. But it's physically impossible to do both, as the earliest date we can have an election is 31 October, by which time we will have either left without a deal or extended under the Benn bill. So what's he on about? Does he think we're all idiots?
I wonder whether the PM and A-G would agree with the following:-
"And you know, my friends, the most difficult thing is to explain what a rule of law is, as distinct from just an oppressive law. They say,
Or this:-
The third guarantee of liberty is the rule of law. The idea that all are equal under the law is deeply rooted in our democratic systems and nowhere else..... The thought that no one in the state can escape the law is, after all, a daring one...... This is not a thought which the powerful can easily accept. Those who hold sway in totalitarian states take good care that the rule of law does not challenge their authority."
You realize all of the above applies, with some fierce poignancy, to the Establishment which now seeks to subvert the democratic brexit vote. Right?
The Establishment - whoever that is - are seeking to avoid a disorderly withdrawal from the EU. That incidentally is in line with the manifesto on which the government was elected. There are those who would prefer to remain in the EU and they are entitled to think that and campaign for it and vote for it and take the consequences at the next election. Losing a vote does not mean that you are no longer entitled to say what you think and act on it.
MPs want a different deal. They are being obstructed from that because the current government has no negotiating strategy and has prioritised a date over getting a deal. It has also done absolutely nothing about trying to get any sort of consensus about what such a deal might look like. It is now stuck. It doesn't like this. The fact that this is in large part a result of its own idiotic actions seems to have passed it by. And in consequence it is lashing out at anyone and everyone instead of growing up and taking responsibility.
You excuse all wanky Remainer behavior. But condemn the same from all Leavers. It renders your opinion absurd and otiose, as you are so obviously biased.
The truth is we have been failed by our entire political class (and beyond), from left to right, from leave to stay.
It’s difficult to think of one figure who has come out of this calamity with his/her reputation enhanced. But I’m going to have a go. There must be one. Must be. Surely.
I’m thinking now.
Still thinking.
Christ.
Um...
Andrew Neil?
Caroline Flint.
Rory Stewart. He consistently argued at length for May's Deal, which would have got us out by now.
I genuinely don't understand what Johnson is trying to say here. He says we should leave with a deal on 31 October. But he also says we should have a general election now. But it's physically impossible to do both, as the earliest date we can have an election is 31 October, by which time we will have either left without a deal or extended under the Benn bill. So what's he on about? Does he think we're all idiots?
He’s going to go into opposition and nick Nigel Farage’s schtick.
But he will remain PM until the election, and will presumably take us out of the EU without a deal while parliament is not sitting. The point is you cannot have an election and a deal at the same time. Yet Johnson spent the whole session saying he wanted both. WTF?
I genuinely don't understand what Johnson is trying to say here. He says we should leave with a deal on 31 October. But he also says we should have a general election now. But it's physically impossible to do both, as the earliest date we can have an election is 31 October, by which time we will have either left without a deal or extended under the Benn bill. So what's he on about? Does he think we're all idiots?
As I have said, having cake and eating it is central to the Brexiteer religion. We must respect their religious beliefs and allow things to be true and false at the same time. Otherwise the snowflakes get very upset and would prefer a civil war.
I genuinely don't understand what Johnson is trying to say here. He says we should leave with a deal on 31 October. But he also says we should have a general election now. But it's physically impossible to do both, as the earliest date we can have an election is 31 October, by which time we will have either left without a deal or extended under the Benn bill. So what's he on about? Does he think we're all idiots?
He’s going to go into opposition and nick Nigel Farage’s schtick.
But he will remain PM until the election, and will presumably take us out of the EU without a deal while parliament is not sitting. The point is you cannot have an election and a deal at the same time. Yet Johnson spent the whole session saying he wanted both. WTF?
Why do you take him at his word? His word is worthless as experience has shown.
Why would the opposition be convinced of the government's argument if their own party was not? Why should they on any case support the government? It's not their job.
And that is why polling shows a huge number of voters believe the remainer dominated parliament is to blame for Brexit not being delivered.
You could argue this is unfair but ultimately what matters is the ballot box at the next GE and Labour are going to be humiliated.
Would have been different if they hadn't wanted to play silly games but there you go.
We shall see whether lab voters prioritise their party or brexit at the next GE. I'm none too sure they will all ditch Labour and rush to the Cons.
Andrew Neil can be very irritating but he's very good at knocking various party policies into shape. Labour's idea of getting rid of private schools has merit but after a few minutes interview with their education spokesman it was clear they hadn't thought it through. Now they'll have to.
How the fuck did we manage to end up with Boris Johnson?
Discuss
Labour not whipping to support WA irrespective of ERG nuts.
If that had passed we would have been in the transition period and we would be talking about pasty taxes like the old days.
Why would the opposition be convinced of the government's argument if their own party was not? Why should they on any case support the government? It's not their job.
It’s their job to act in the National interest. As it is for every MP. Irrespective of the tories own rebels this was a deal negotiated with and agreed with the EU. The fact the tories had rebels is not an excuse for others to exploit what was a mechanism vital to avoid all the nasty things No Deal might bring. It’s very convenient to blame the ERG and DUP but they could have been sidelined in a genuine desire from”rational” Politicians to ensure the UK both fulfilled the referendum and avoided the worst fears of remainers. But no. Childishness took over.
The best thing for the country is an orderly withdrawal. We had that. They rejected it. Now, well, God knows.
I genuinely don't understand what Johnson is trying to say here. He says we should leave with a deal on 31 October. But he also says we should have a general election now. But it's physically impossible to do both, as the earliest date we can have an election is 31 October, by which time we will have either left without a deal or extended under the Benn bill. So what's he on about? Does he think we're all idiots?
He’s going to go into opposition and nick Nigel Farage’s schtick.
The person who is doing worst tonight is Nigel Farage.
He completely misjudged the mood of potential Brexit Party voters and has completely shot himself in the foot. Brexit Party voters are going to love the shit out of Johnson's performance today and calling on him to resign was a rookie error my Farage.
The person who is doing worst tonight is Nigel Farage.
He completely misjudged the mood of potential Brexit Party voters and has completely shot himself in the foot. Brexit Party voters are going to love the shit out of Johnson's performance today and calling on him to resign was a rookie error my Farage.
I agree with your analysis on Farage.
I am just the sort of person who the brexit party would need to attract if they are going to score better than theow teens they seem to be getting now, OK with no deal, voted for them in the EU elections yet they have lost any chance of my vote now.. Farage really misjudged this today and he just seems out for himself (something I have always known but is clearly shown in his handling of this)
I genuinely don't understand what Johnson is trying to say here. He says we should leave with a deal on 31 October. But he also says we should have a general election now. But it's physically impossible to do both, as the earliest date we can have an election is 31 October, by which time we will have either left without a deal or extended under the Benn bill. So what's he on about? Does he think we're all idiots?
He’s going to go into opposition and nick Nigel Farage’s schtick.
But he will remain PM until the election, and will presumably take us out of the EU without a deal while parliament is not sitting. The point is you cannot have an election and a deal at the same time. Yet Johnson spent the whole session saying he wanted both. WTF?
Why do you take him at his word? His word is worthless as experience has shown.
Don't worry, I don't believe a single word that comes out of his mouth. I simply wanted to point out that what he said today wasn't even internally consistent let alone consistent with the truth.
This parliamentary swithering is just pointless. Every time an opposition MP stands up to hurl the same boring rant at Boris, the viewer is left to think; well then just call an election??
Labour’s refusal to demand a GE is gonna hurt them.
Exactly.. It is all looking rediculous now.. If you have no confidence in the PM VONC him or support an election.. Too much sniping and tweeting and not enough guts
Why would the opposition be convinced of the government's argument if their own party was not? Why should they on any case support the government? It's not their job.
And that is why polling shows a huge number of voters believe the remainer dominated parliament is to blame for Brexit not being delivered.
You could argue this is unfair but ultimately what matters is the ballot box at the next GE and Labour are going to be humiliated.
Would have been different if they hadn't wanted to play silly games but there you go.
We shall see whether lab voters prioritise their party or brexit at the next GE. I'm none too sure they will all ditch Labour and rush to the Cons.
They don't all have to, of course.
They don't even have to vote Tory.
If the Labour vote falls more than the Tory vote, then Labour seats will fall. FWIW, I think that is what will happen.
This parliamentary swithering is just pointless. Every time an opposition MP stands up to hurl the same boring rant at Boris, the viewer is left to think; well then just call an election??
Labour’s refusal to demand a GE is gonna hurt them.
Exactly.. It is all looking rediculous now.. If you have no confidence in the PM VONC him or support an election.. Too much sniping and tweeting and not enough guts
"Bring 'em on! I'd prefer a straight fight to all this sneaking around!"
How the fuck did we manage to end up with Boris Johnson?
Discuss
Labour not whipping to support WA irrespective of ERG nuts.
If that had passed we would have been in the transition period and we would be talking about pasty taxes like the old days.
Why would the opposition be convinced of the government's argument if their own party was not? Why should they on any case support the government? It's not their job.
It’s their job to act in the National interest. As it is for every MP. Irrespective of the tories own rebels this was a deal negotiated with and agreed with the EU. The fact the tories had rebels is not an excuse for others to exploit what was a mechanism vital to avoid all the nasty things No Deal might bring. It’s very convenient to blame the ERG and DUP but they could have been sidelined in a genuine desire from”rational” Politicians to ensure the UK both fulfilled the referendum and avoided the worst fears of remainers. But no. Childishness took over.
The best thing for the country is an orderly withdrawal. We had that. They rejected it. Now, well, God knows.
That is a good point. What about the argument those who care about worker protection, environmental protection, would have to have taken it on trust those things would end up protected not watered down?
Why would the opposition be convinced of the government's argument if their own party was not? Why should they on any case support the government? It's not their job.
And that is why polling shows a huge number of voters believe the remainer dominated parliament is to blame for Brexit not being delivered.
You could argue this is unfair but ultimately what matters is the ballot box at the next GE and Labour are going to be humiliated.
Would have been different if they hadn't wanted to play silly games but there you go.
We shall see whether lab voters prioritise their party or brexit at the next GE. I'm none too sure they will all ditch Labour and rush to the Cons.
Agreed. Taking enough seats from Labour to more-than-compensate for the expected losses to the SNP and Lib Dems looks like it'll be a tall order for the Tories. Unless, that is, they have some reason to believe that the same cohort of GE non-voters who helped get the Leave vote over the finishing line are going to turn out again and back Boris to deliver. I guess we'll find out at some point between now and May 2022?!
How the fuck did we manage to end up with Boris Johnson?
Discuss
Labour not whipping to support WA irrespective of ERG nuts.
If that had passed we would have been in the transition period and we would be talking about pasty taxes like the old days.
Why would the opposition be convinced of the government's argument if their own party was not? Why should they on any case support the government? It's not their job.
It’s their job to act in the National interest. As it is for every MP. Irrespective of the tories own rebels this was a deal negotiated with and agreed with the EU. The fact the tories had rebels is not an excuse for others to exploit what was a mechanism vital to avoid all the nasty things No Deal might bring. It’s very convenient to blame the ERG and DUP but they could have been sidelined in a genuine desire from”rational” Politicians to ensure the UK both fulfilled the referendum and avoided the worst fears of remainers. But no. Childishness took over.
The best thing for the country is an orderly withdrawal. We had that. They rejected it. Now, well, God knows.
They believed a Labour deal would be better than the one on offer. They believed that their deal would be in the national interest. Like every other policy.
It would be a strange opposition that thought the government had got it right on one issue or another.
I hesitate to risk a comparison which shows BJ’s oratory performance in a positive light.
But Trump makes him look like Laurence Olivier. He clearly wanders into the room thinking he can busk it, utterly deluded about his own capabilities.
At least Johnson tonight managed a couple of hours basically sticking to his script. The Jo Cox/humbug stuff was the glaring diversion (and a bad one), but it was otherwise a Campbellesque display of message discipline. And he was generally less shouty than Corbyn. I know we should aspire to better, and maybe a Trump-like verbal vomit would tell us more. But we could have worse.
Nope. He was spot on.. Cowards and hypocrites the lot of them.
Because they won't vote for a deal they disagree with? Because they won't vote for an election that will make it impossible to get a deal? That is their right, and they are right to do so. Cox is just venting because the government can't get its way, and this government of entitled public schoolboys can't handle anyone saying no to them.
Only 37% of Americans think President Trump should be impeached a new Quinnipiac poll shows, 57% do not think he should be impeached. 21% of Democrats think the President should not be impeached and 58% of Independent voters as well as 95% of Republicans
I’m extending my test. Can any PB-er think of any figure, from politics, whose reputation has been enhanced by the Brexit process?
Try not to be too partisan. It’s boring. If you can’t find anyone in politics you are allowed to trawl the worlds of journalism, law and academe.
Jo Swinson?
I completely, fundantenally disagree with her stance on revoke but she is at least honest and if she was to win a majority and revoked I would accept it.
Also I think she comes across as a genuiely nice person. In less "febrile" times, once Brexit is sorted out one way or another I could see myself voting for her...
Honest , you have to be joking, more faces than the town clock
This parliamentary swithering is just pointless. Every time an opposition MP stands up to hurl the same boring rant at Boris, the viewer is left to think; well then just call an election??
Labour’s refusal to demand a GE is gonna hurt them.
Exactly.. It is all looking rediculous now.. If you have no confidence in the PM VONC him or support an election.. Too much sniping and tweeting and not enough guts
It's now physically impossible to get a deal if we have a VONC or GE now. So if you call for an election you are calling for no deal.
Wonder if more events like tonight this will give rise to more err... "shy Tories"
There's an argument that many Tories will keep quiet in the hope Boris gets a decent majority and then defenster him when he next fucks up, take over and then run it properly.
How the fuck did we manage to end up with Boris Johnson?
Discuss
Because TweedleMay and TweeedleCorbyn called an unnecessary election in 2017.
I used to call Cameron, Clegg and Miliband...tweedledum, tweedledde, and tweedlethree back in the day....
Johnson could have been alright as PM (sort of)...in a time of political scenerity......his rampant shagging, immorality would have been a tittering distraction.....
I confess I am finding it hard to think of ANY Leaver politician who has been reputationally enhanced. Probably because it is their project and the onus is on them and, so far, it is failing badly (even tho they would blame much of that on Remainers).
There must be ONE.
John Mann
Now can anyone think of a Conservative Leaver who has impressed ?
Only 37% of Americans think President Trump should be impeached a new Quinnipiac poll shows, 57% do not think he should be impeached. 21% of Democrats think the President should not be impeached and 58% of Independent voters as well as 95% of Republicans
I’m extending my test. Can any PB-er think of any figure, from politics, whose reputation has been enhanced by the Brexit process?
Try not to be too partisan. It’s boring. If you can’t find anyone in politics you are allowed to trawl the worlds of journalism, law and academe.
Jo Swinson?
I completely, fundantenally disagree with her stance on revoke but she is at least honest and if she was to win a majority and revoked I would accept it.
Also I think she comes across as a genuiely nice person. In less "febrile" times, once Brexit is sorted out one way or another I could see myself voting for her...
Honest , you have to be joking, more faces than the town clock
Wonder if more events like tonight this will give rise to more err... "shy Tories"
You'd think it would, but everything is so polarised now that people seem willing to brazen out the most shocking things if they are said by their side.
Wonder if more events like tonight this will give rise to more err... "shy Tories"
There's an argument that many Tories will keep quiet in the hope Boris gets a decent majority and then defenster him when he next fucks up, take over and then run it properly.
That's as hopeful as shy Labouirites waiting for Corbyn to keel over...
Or those shy post Weimar Gerrmans hoping that they could control Hitler who was so obviously unfit to be leader....
Grown some bollox Casino...call Johnson for what he is...
I fucking despise Corbyn for his Stalinist takeover of my party
The House has now become very grave. MP after MP making points of order about their personal security.
I always thought social media was a bad idea. Most people were too lazy to write and post a letter. Of course if people had to pay 20 pence every time they sent a tweet or posted a message on Facebook it might be different.
Wonder if more events like tonight this will give rise to more err... "shy Tories"
There's an argument that many Tories will keep quiet in the hope Boris gets a decent majority and then defenster him when he next fucks up, take over and then run it properly.
That's as hopeful as shy Labouirites waiting for Corbyn to keel over...
Or those shy post Weimar Gerrmans hoping that they could control Hitler who was so obviously unfit to be leader....
Grown some bollox Casino...call Johnson for what he is...
I fucking despise Corbyn for his Stalinist takeover of my party
I've not been shy of expressing my views on Johnson on here using what would be considered unparliamentary language.
How the fuck did we manage to end up with Boris Johnson?
Discuss
Because TweedleMay and TweeedleCorbyn called an unnecessary election in 2017.
I used to call Cameron, Clegg and Miliband...tweedledum, tweedledde, and tweedlethree back in the day....
Johnson could have been alright as PM (sort of)...in a time of political scenerity......his rampant shagging, immorality would have been a tittering distraction.....
but this fucking pathological man is around now
Congrats - you've invented a new word.
Its scenerity a combination or serenity and sincerity ?
The House has now become very grave. MP after MP making points of order about their personal security.
This is what happens when you block democracy as MP's have.
They have, I'm afraid to say bought this chaos on themselves.
This is awful. MPs should not have to put up with that. We have spent the last three treads discussing whether remedies should be judicial or political. To choose violence is disgraceful.
And they just keep coming. It would take me nearly *ten minutes* of online call of duty to rack up this number of death/rape/teabagging threats.
I’m extending my test. Can any PB-er think of any figure, from politics, whose reputation has been enhanced by the Brexit process?
Try not to be too partisan. It’s boring. If you can’t find anyone in politics you are allowed to trawl the worlds of journalism, law and academe.
Jo Swinson?
I completely, fundantenally disagree with her stance on revoke but she is at least honest and if she was to win a majority and revoked I would accept it.
Also I think she comes across as a genuiely nice person. In less "febrile" times, once Brexit is sorted out one way or another I could see myself voting for her...
Honest , you have to be joking, more faces than the town clock
I’m extending my test. Can any PB-er think of any figure, from politics, whose reputation has been enhanced by the Brexit process?
Try not to be too partisan. It’s boring. If you can’t find anyone in politics you are allowed to trawl the worlds of journalism, law and academe.
For all that I dislike her politics intensely and am on the polar opposite from her as far as Brexit is concerned, I would suggest Nicola Sturgeon.
She has been clear that her first and only priority is the people of Scotland. She has represented their views and has been consistent in her opposition to Brexit. The SNP stood by its principles and did not vote for Article 50 and even though she is not in Parliament l is agreement awithdrawhenfluence and control over her party including the Westminster MPs has been very impressive.
I just wish she was on my side of the argument.
Oh and Michel Barnier.
Barnier has so far failed to secure a deal, something I believe A50 requires the EU to do.
The referendum was an inflexion point. Britain is the 21st century Argentina.
Oh catch yourself on, we have a minority government and a restless parliament that large parts of disagree with the manifesto commitments of the two main parties, which followed naturally from a referendum victory.
Meanwhile we have a booming economy.
The inability of so many of those who are not used to losing to come to terms with losing is remarkable.
Booming economy? You’re quite unhinged.
More employed than ever before (as a percentage).
Sorry to humble-brag to all you wealthy, successful PBers, but I've been unemployed for over a year now. Any questions?
How the fuck did we manage to end up with Boris Johnson?
Discuss
Labour not whipping to support WA irrespective of ERG nuts.
If that had passed we would have been in the transition period and we would be talking about pasty taxes like the old days.
Why would the opposition be convinced of the government's argument if their own party was not? Why should they on any case support the government? It's not their job.
It’s their job to act in the National interest. As it is for every MP. Irrespective of the tories own rebels this was a deal negotiated with and agreed with the EU. The fact the tories had rebels is not an excuse for others to exploit what was a mechanism vital to avoid all the nasty things No Deal might bring. It’s very convenient to blame the ERG and DUP but they could have been sidelined in a genuine desire from”rational” Politicians to ensure the UK both fulfilled the referendum and avoided the worst fears of remainers. But no. Childishness took over.
The best thing for the country is an orderly withdrawal. We had that. They rejected it. Now, well, God knows.
That is a good point. What about the argument those who care about worker protection, environmental protection, would have to have taken it on trust those things would end up protected not watered down?
I’m not convinced they would be watered down. A responsible opposition would have tried to ensure they wouldn’t (and May hardly had a majority to force though substantial changes to such things) and I hardly think making such changes would have been electorally advantageous anyway. The fear of such things was probably used as a convenient “out”.
No one, not even the evil tories, aren’t going to put kids back up chimneys and allow toxic waste to flow into our rivers.
Wonder if more events like tonight this will give rise to more err... "shy Tories"
There's an argument that many Tories will keep quiet in the hope Boris gets a decent majority and then defenster him when he next fucks up, take over and then run it properly.
That's as hopeful as shy Labouirites waiting for Corbyn to keel over...
Or those shy post Weimar Gerrmans hoping that they could control Hitler who was so obviously unfit to be leader....
Grown some bollox Casino...call Johnson for what he is...
I fucking despise Corbyn for his Stalinist takeover of my party
The referendum was an inflexion point. Britain is the 21st century Argentina.
Oh catch yourself on, we have a minority government and a restless parliament that large parts of disagree with the manifesto commitments of the two main parties, which followed naturally from a referendum victory.
Meanwhile we have a booming economy.
The inability of so many of those who are not used to losing to come to terms with losing is remarkable.
Booming economy? You’re quite unhinged.
More employed than ever before (as a percentage).
Sorry to humble-brag to all you wealthy, successful PBers, but I've been unemployed for over a year now. Any questions?
Comments
He completely misjudged the mood of potential Brexit Party voters and has completely shot himself in the foot. Brexit Party voters are going to love the shit out of Johnson's performance today and calling on him to resign was a rookie error my Farage.
The immutable fact remains that, if a GE date has not been agreed, then all the government needs to do is resign prior to 31/10.
Recommend Corbyn as a (temporary) replacement so he can request the A50 extension.
It doesn't need repeating what will then happen to Labour in the subsequent GE.
All the hundreds of posts on here, which are interesting in their own right, actually fail to see the inevitable end point.
The future is already decided even if remainers can't bear to see it.
Doh why didn't we realise how simple and what a strategic masterstroke it actually was.
3d chess: rookie error from Farage, BXP voters go to CON
4d chess: 'rookie error' from Farage, BXP polling VI goes to CON, opposition continue to block election, PM has to extend, CON voters return to BXP with interest.
Spoiler: it was 2d.
So yes, Rory Stewart has enhanced his reputation.
You could argue this is unfair but ultimately what matters is the ballot box at the next GE and Labour are going to be humiliated.
Would have been different if they hadn't wanted to play silly games but there you go.
The only way that the PM can respect the constraints provided by this Parliament, given that it refuses to terminate itself, is to ask the EU for an extension to 2022, go on holiday for the next two-and-a-half years, and wait until it is forced to an end by the expiry of its term. It would be far preferable were there to be a dissolution - then voters might get some honesty about what the various politicians are really offering. At least from some of the parties.
But rather he says and does the first thing which comes to his mind.
By the same reasoning I don't think he's a liar in the same way Blair and Cameron were.
Rather Boris is just full of shit and has no concept of facts or truth and says things almost at random.
The best thing for the country is an orderly withdrawal. We had that. They rejected it. Now, well, God knows.
99% of people won't be watching tonight's debate, won't be listening to any of the intricacies.
Only one thing will be noticed - do we leave on 31 Oct? Yes or No. Nothing else.
If we don't, Con is going to lose support to Brexit Party - and whatever Boris says will make no difference.
First hint is ComRes poll this morning.
Plus look at Betfair - Lab Most Seats was 5.4 two days ago, 4.3 now.
You only go into a court when you can win, not a fishing expedition, not even when you know whose guilty, only when you can win.
They can’t. The detail of what Trump was doing was passed on by aids flying over there, not by Trump.
They don't even have to vote Tory.
If the Labour vote falls more than the Tory vote, then Labour seats will fall. FWIW, I think that is what will happen.
It would be a strange opposition that thought the government had got it right on one issue or another.
But Trump makes him look like Laurence Olivier. He clearly wanders into the room thinking he can busk it, utterly deluded about his own capabilities.
At least Johnson tonight managed a couple of hours basically sticking to his script. The Jo Cox/humbug stuff was the glaring diversion (and a bad one), but it was otherwise a Campbellesque display of message discipline. And he was generally less shouty than Corbyn. I know we should aspire to better, and maybe a Trump-like verbal vomit would tell us more. But we could have worse.
Cox is just venting because the government can't get its way, and this government of entitled public schoolboys can't handle anyone saying no to them.
https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=3641
Ridiculous.
They have, I'm afraid to say bought this chaos on themselves.
An election on current terms will lead to more deaths.
Johnson could have been alright as PM (sort of)...in a time of political scenerity......his rampant shagging, immorality would have been a tittering distraction.....
but this fucking pathological man is around now
Now can anyone think of a Conservative Leaver who has impressed ?
Or those shy post Weimar Gerrmans hoping that they could control Hitler who was so obviously unfit to be leader....
Grown some bollox Casino...call Johnson for what he is...
I fucking despise Corbyn for his Stalinist takeover of my party
Have you been drinking again?
Its scenerity a combination or serenity and sincerity ?
Thank God I'm in civilised France. Great weather too
And they just keep coming. It would take me nearly *ten minutes* of online call of duty to rack up this number of death/rape/teabagging threats.
No one, not even the evil tories, aren’t going to put kids back up chimneys and allow toxic waste to flow into our rivers.
It was impertinent and inappropriate.
"[Trump] is capable of anything. Maybe it’s not just a culture war that he’d whip up. Maybe it’s the real thing."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/25/opinion/trump-impeachment-.html