We need resolution. A General Election is the best chance of resolution.
There should have been a General Election prior to October 31st to (hopefully) give a mandate for some outcome.
It now looks like that is not going to be possible. (Which is retarded, and is entirely the fault of Lab/LD/SNP.)
I therefore now think we need to have the smallest possible extension (one month?) to allow a General Election to be called, because we need a government with a mandate, almost irrespective of what the mandate is.
Why ? Why should a General Election on the terms of this discredited government. First and foremost, the agenda of the majority in this Parliament must be implemented [ from what is already enacted ] and then a General election should be held. I am not sure that all 21 expelled Tory MPs plus the CHUKs or ex-CHUKs would necessarily agree. They may want a People's vote done first.
Then Parliament should replace the executive
We do not have government by a committee of the whole house
The FTPA is a corrosive piece of legislation
It’s more that Theresa May properly shat the bed during GE2017.
If she’d won a clear majority, by not running the worse campaign in history, she could have repealed it.
We need resolution. A General Election is the best chance of resolution.
There should have been a General Election prior to October 31st to (hopefully) give a mandate for some outcome.
It now looks like that is not going to be possible. (Which is retarded, and is entirely the fault of Lab/LD/SNP.)
I therefore now think we need to have the smallest possible extension (one month?) to allow a General Election to be called, because we need a government with a mandate, almost irrespective of what the mandate is.
Even if everyone voted solely on the Brexit issue (which they won't) how on earth does Johnson winning a majority on 35% of the vote provide a mandate for anything? A referendum is the only way to resolve this.
No, it is a better way of resolving it (not least because while it has its own problems, unlike a GE it cannot be completely indecisive), not the only way. I truly despise the way people use the word mandate, and as in this case that is just how our system works. I think it would be politically silly and risky to take us out of the EU or revoke based on a FPTP majority on 35% of the vote, but that is all the mandate that our system has ever required. Heck, they don't even need the mandate of a referendum or a GE to revoke or no deal right now even if they'd said they would never do either, it's just stupid to do that.
Agreed. It would be politically silly to do either, and I still think a revoke under FPTP still leads to the equal and opposite reaction of a hard brexit at the subsequent GE.
But I suppose people are quite rightly looking at the 2016 referendum and going "well, that didn't solve anything" and making the assumption that - a not unreasonable one - that the reason it didn't solve anything is because this bunch of MPs refuse to pass anything. Hence the need for an election. A(nother) referendum solves nothing when this lot of MPs refuse to enact it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it's even possible for a referendum to be legally binding as no parliament can bind its successor? So the decision must ultimately lie with our MPs.
You can make it binding I believe - the authorising Act just has to say something like 'the result will be enacted'. If memory serves the AV referendum bill did, and the EU one did not. Conspiracists would suggest intentionally, but more likely just failure to spot by the Commons.
We need resolution. A General Election is the best chance of resolution.
There should have been a General Election prior to October 31st to (hopefully) give a mandate for some outcome.
It now looks like that is not going to be possible. (Which is retarded, and is entirely the fault of Lab/LD/SNP.)
I therefore now think we need to have the smallest possible extension (one month?) to allow a General Election to be called, because we need a government with a mandate, almost irrespective of what the mandate is.
Even if everyone voted solely on the Brexit issue (which they won't) how on earth does Johnson winning a majority on 35% of the vote provide a mandate for anything? A referendum is the only way to resolve this.
Nope. Bums on seats on HoC is what matters.
If Boris gets a 30 seat majority on 35% of the vote we Brexit do or die.
How many people sit on the green leather benches is what counts. Nothing else matters.
I don't recall that being the argument when leavers were agitating for for a referendum in the first place.
If the only thing that counts is how many people sit on the green leather benches then why didn't the Brexiteers wait until they elected a Pro-Brexit Parliament?
Seems Brexiteers change the goal posts as they go to suit themselves. Same way that No Deal went from being "Project Fear" to being the only true Brexit.
Personally I was never one of those "agitating" for a refernedum but since we had it and we got a clear result...
And as I've said repeatedly personally I'd have voted for May's deal on MV2 and thought MPs (yes ERG ones too) were stupid not to vote for it so we could move on.
The gamesmanship comes from a fake government desperate to engineer an election on its terms to stay in an office it never earned. Rightly, its opponents are having none of it.
Yes the government have behaved disgracefully. I don't quite see, however, where having no functioning government for however long it takes for the opposition to be confident the tories would lose an election, is a good thing either.
They can remove Boris and not engineer an election on terms Boris wants. It's not either they leave him in place or they must play his game.
It won’t take very long before this wretched government can be scrunched up and discarded like a used tissue. Five weeks tops.
I’m just playing devils advocate but IF Johnson is returned with a majority and subsequently cancels or short circuits any extension granted you will be “happy” (Procedurally speaking) as he has a democratic mandate to do so?
(Just noting my interest in the answer to this, Mr Meeks)
We need resolution. A General Election is the best chance of resolution.
There should have been a General Election prior to October 31st to (hopefully) give a mandate for some outcome.
It now looks like that is not going to be possible. (Which is retarded, and is entirely the fault of Lab/LD/SNP.)
I therefore now think we need to have the smallest possible extension (one month?) to allow a General Election to be called, because we need a government with a mandate, almost irrespective of what the mandate is.
Why ? Why should a General Election on the terms of this discredited government. First and foremost, the agenda of the majority in this Parliament must be implemented [ from what is already enacted ] and then a General election should be held. I am not sure that all 21 expelled Tory MPs plus the CHUKs or ex-CHUKs would necessarily agree. They may want a People's vote done first.
Then Parliament should replace the executive
We do not have government by a committee of the whole house
The FTPA is a corrosive piece of legislation
The government has no right to demand that events take place at its dictation. It made its bed and it is lying on it. It will have to wait until it suits others to dispose of it.
The issue is that Bercow has innovated and in so doing destroyed the balance between parliament and government.
Government should set the agenda and parliament approve or not.
That’s nonsense. All the aggressive moves in this fake government’s existence have been initiated by the Prime Minister’s team. Parliament sat for one day under him before he announced the prorogation.
The Fixed Term Parliaments Act is an excellent deterrent for rogue governments.
Evening Malc. I hope the turnip harvest was good this year. I've got approx 600 Oedipus complexers I need to throw them at and you just can't get them round here.
Has Jared O’Mara resigned his seat yet? Or Jo Johnson? Any by-elections on the horizon?
He rescinded it.
Well, that's one of the worst failings of the Johnson strategy. If asked for a concrete example of how epically he's screwed up, just comment, 'O'Mara is still an MP.'
We need resolution. A General Election is the best chance of resolution.
There should have been a General Election prior to October 31st to (hopefully) give a mandate for some outcome.
It now looks like that is not going to be possible. (Which is retarded, and is entirely the fault of Lab/LD/SNP.)
I therefore now think we need to have the smallest possible extension (one month?) to allow a General Election to be called, because we need a government with a mandate, almost irrespective of what the mandate is.
Why ? Why should a General Election on the terms of this discredited government. First and foremost, the agenda of the majority in this Parliament must be implemented [ from what is already enacted ] and then a General election should be held. I am not sure that all 21 expelled Tory MPs plus the CHUKs or ex-CHUKs would necessarily agree. They may want a People's vote done first.
Then Parliament should replace the executive
We do not have government by a committee of the whole house
The FTPA is a corrosive piece of legislation
The government has no right to demand that events take place at its dictation. It made its bed and it is lying on it. It will have to wait until it suits others to dispose of it.
The issue is that Bercow has innovated and in so doing destroyed the balance between parliament and government.
Government should set the agenda and parliament approve or not.
Government serves at the pleasure of the House. Its a bizarre situation but currently the House has decided its pleasure is to park a government in office but remove from it the reigns of power.
"A Prime Minister is more than simply a party leader and has an obligation to take their constitutional obligations seriously, including the interests of Parliament"
There's only one sensible person in here, and she's called CycleFree.
It's very nice of you to say so (though I'm sure untrue) but that was a point made by the Supreme Court. Though it is one I heartily agree with.
Looking at the list of wars involving various parts of these islands, I see one called the Rough Wooing, which is probably much more well known to the Scots, and probably not as folksy as its name might suggest.
If Edward VI had lived to adulthood, he would have been married off to the lady who would become Mary Queen of Scots.
We need resolution. A General Election is the best chance of resolution.
There should have been a General Election prior to October 31st to (hopefully) give a mandate for some outcome.
It now looks like that is not going to be possible. (Which is retarded, and is entirely the fault of Lab/LD/SNP.)
I therefore now think we need to have the smallest possible extension (one month?) to allow a General Election to be called, because we need a government with a mandate, almost irrespective of what the mandate is.
Even if everyone voted solely on the Brexit issue (which they won't) how on earth does Johnson winning a majority on 35% of the vote provide a mandate for anything? A referendum is the only way to resolve this.
Blair won a 66 seat majority in 2005 with 35% of the popular vote.
So what? I have never supported our archaic electoral system even when it benefitted my political agenda. So you will be happy with the LDs revoking Brexit if then win an election on 35% of the vote?
The gamesmanship comes from a fake government desperate to engineer an election on its terms to stay in an office it never earned. Rightly, its opponents are having none of it.
Yes the government have behaved disgracefully. I don't quite see, however, where having no functioning government for however long it takes for the opposition to be confident the tories would lose an election, is a good thing either.
They can remove Boris and not engineer an election on terms Boris wants. It's not either they leave him in place or they must play his game.
It won’t take very long before this wretched government can be scrunched up and discarded like a used tissue. Five weeks tops.
I’m just playing devils advocate but IF Johnson is returned with a majority and subsequently cancels or short circuits any extension granted you will be “happy” (Procedurally speaking) as he has a democratic mandate to do so?
(Just noting my interest in the answer to this, Mr Meeks)
If the duly elected government implements a manifesto commitment I am not going to object to the procedure.
Not that this Prime Minister has any concept of mandate or democratic norms.
Looking at the list of wars involving various parts of these islands, I see one called the Rough Wooing, which is probably much more well known to the Scots, and probably not as folksy as its name might suggest.
If Edward VI had lived to adulthood, he would have been married off to the lady who would become Mary Queen of Scots.
And if Edward V had lived to adulthood, Edward VI would never have existed.
We need resolution. A General Election is the best chance of resolution.
There should have been a General Election prior to October 31st to (hopefully) give a mandate for some outcome.
It now looks like that is not going to be possible. (Which is retarded, and is entirely the fault of Lab/LD/SNP.)
I therefore now think we need to have the smallest possible extension (one month?) to allow a General Election to be called, because we need a government with a mandate, almost irrespective of what the mandate is.
Even if everyone voted solely on the Brexit issue (which they won't) how on earth does Johnson winning a majority on 35% of the vote provide a mandate for anything? A referendum is the only way to resolve this.
Nope. Bums on seats on HoC is what matters.
If Boris gets a 30 seat majority on 35% of the vote we Brexit do or die.
How many people sit on the green leather benches is what counts. Nothing else matters.
By that logic the 2017 GE should be respected. The people elected a ‘remain’ parliament apparently. Nothing else matters.
Not really as both Con and Lab manifestos committed to leaving the EU.
Nice try though.
Sigh. I’m not the one calling this a ‘remain’ parliament. Those are the words of populist scum.
Labour did not commit to leave the EU, whatever it takes, by October 31st.
You seem oddly rattled?
I'm rattled. I'm rattled by the populist scum on this website cheering a PM who shut down parliament illegally. A profound danger to the rule of law and the democratic institutions of this country. Anyone who isn't rattled by this is sleepwalking into a repressive authoritarian disaster. Wake the fuck up.
This repressive authoritarian wants a GE now. Hardly in keeping with your description.
Don’t fall into the trap thinking that democracy prevents repression and authoritarianism.
Voting. Democracy is about MUCH more than just voting. Though, of course, voting is a necessary part.
You can make it binding I believe - the authorising Act just has to say something like 'the result will be enacted'. If memory serves the AV referendum bill did, and the EU one did not. Conspiracists would suggest intentionally, but more likely just failure to spot by the Commons.
A binding referendum only works for something that's ready to be implemented immediately, so couldn't be done for the EU ref.
You can make it binding I believe - the authorising Act just has to say something like 'the result will be enacted'. If memory serves the AV referendum bill did, and the EU one did not. Conspiracists would suggest intentionally, but more likely just failure to spot by the Commons.
It would be because there was a specific change proposed for the AV referendum which the government was ready to implement, but there are many different ways to leave the EU and it is also subject to negotiation with a third party, so that makes it much harder to have a specific way of leaving incorporated into law ahead of time.
It could be done now, if one were to put a deal to a referendum.
Evening Malc. I hope the turnip harvest was good this year. I've got approx 600 Oedipus complexers I need to throw them at and you just can't get them round here.
You can make it binding I believe - the authorising Act just has to say something like 'the result will be enacted'. If memory serves the AV referendum bill did, and the EU one did not. Conspiracists would suggest intentionally, but more likely just failure to spot by the Commons.
A binding referendum only works for something that's ready to be implemented immediately, so couldn't be done for the EU ref.
It could. Two choices: ratify the WA or revoke Article 50.
The gamesmanship comes from a fake government desperate to engineer an election on its terms to stay in an office it never earned. Rightly, its opponents are having none of it.
Yes the government have behaved disgracefully. I don't quite see, however, where having no functioning government for however long it takes for the opposition to be confident the tories would lose an election, is a good thing either.
They can remove Boris and not engineer an election on terms Boris wants. It's not either they leave him in place or they must play his game.
It won’t take very long before this wretched government can be scrunched up and discarded like a used tissue. Five weeks tops.
I’m just playing devils advocate but IF Johnson is returned with a majority and subsequently cancels or short circuits any extension granted you will be “happy” (Procedurally speaking) as he has a democratic mandate to do so?
(Just noting my interest in the answer to this, Mr Meeks)
If the duly elected government implements a manifesto commitment I am not going to object to the procedure.
Not that this Prime Minister has any concept of mandate or democratic norms.
I appreciate your candidness. I’m sure we both agree sooner or later this madness must end.
Evening Malc. I hope the turnip harvest was good this year. I've got approx 600 Oedipus complexers I need to throw them at and you just can't get them round here.
Whilst it is good to see the Supreme Court judgement bring common sense back to the use of prorogative powers, I would argue that its immediate impact on the Brexit debate is less than its long-term significance as a bulward against executive overreach.
The downside is that we now have close to 3 and a half weeks of Parliament being in session, but nothing significant happening until we find out Johnson's response to the new law and the immediate aftermath of this in the third week of October.
I would pencil in for an election in early December, but there are plenty of ways it could be delayed longer than that.
I wonder whether the PM and A-G would agree with the following:-
"And you know, my friends, the most difficult thing is to explain what a rule of law is, as distinct from just an oppressive law. They say,
Or this:-
The third guarantee of liberty is the rule of law. The idea that all are equal under the law is deeply rooted in our democratic systems and nowhere else..... The thought that no one in the state can escape the law is, after all, a daring one...... This is not a thought which the powerful can easily accept. Those who hold sway in totalitarian states take good care that the rule of law does not challenge their authority."
You realize all of the above applies, with some fierce poignancy, to the Establishment which now seeks to subvert the democratic brexit vote. Right?
The Establishment - whoever that is - are seeking to avoid a disorderly withdrawal from the EU. That incidentally is in line with the manifesto on which the government was elected. There are those who would prefer to remain in the EU and they are entitled to think that and campaign for it and vote for it and take the consequences at the next election. Losing a vote does not mean that you are no longer entitled to say what you think and act on it.
MPs want a different deal. They are being obstructed from that because the current government has no negotiating strategy and has prioritised a date over getting a deal. It has also done absolutely nothing about trying to get any sort of consensus about what such a deal might look like. It is now stuck. It doesn't like this. The fact that this is in large part a result of its own idiotic actions seems to have passed it by. And in consequence it is lashing out at anyone and everyone instead of growing up and taking responsibility.
You excuse all wanky Remainer behavior. But condemn the same from all Leavers. It renders your opinion absurd and otiose, as you are so obviously biased.
The truth is we have been failed by our entire political class (and beyond), from left to right, from leave to stay.
It’s difficult to think of one figure who has come out of this calamity with his/her reputation enhanced. But I’m going to have a go. There must be one. Must be. Surely.
Bozo is so detested by 99% of Labour MPs and the rest of the opposition that they’d rather chew their own leg off than give him what will be perceived as a win.
Bozos continued surrender act comments are clearly designed to goad opposition MPs .
The gamesmanship comes from a fake government desperate to engineer an election on its terms to stay in an office it never earned. Rightly, its opponents are having none of it.
Yes the government have behaved disgracefully. I don't quite see, however, where having no functioning government for however long it takes for the opposition to be confident the tories would lose an election, is a good thing either.
They can remove Boris and not engineer an election on terms Boris wants. It's not either they leave him in place or they must play his game.
It won’t take very long before this wretched government can be scrunched up and discarded like a used tissue. Five weeks tops.
I’m just playing devils advocate but IF Johnson is returned with a majority and subsequently cancels or short circuits any extension granted you will be “happy” (Procedurally speaking) as he has a democratic mandate to do so?
(Just noting my interest in the answer to this, Mr Meeks)
If the duly elected government implements a manifesto commitment I am not going to object to the procedure.
Not that this Prime Minister has any concept of mandate or democratic norms.
I appreciate your candidness. I’m sure we both agree sooner or later this madness must end.
Great soundbite from Jo Swinson. She knows what she’s doing.
She needs some voice coaching.
I don't think that what she said was good anyway.
If she can get your 'great' when being as she is, then there's a lot of opportunity for Swinson.
she is crap
I’ll join in with your immature prose:
no u
no need to make it flowery, short and sweet is good enough. Mine was literate and intelligible, I must say I have no idea what you are inferring. What does no u mean
Has Jared O’Mara resigned his seat yet? Or Jo Johnson? Any by-elections on the horizon?
He rescinded it.
He might justify his place and bring some sense to the House if he attended and then stood up and said "You lot are making me look good right now".
It would be a sobering moment for many who right now are getting off on their outrage.
Much though I loathe and despise many current MPs, that would still be a lie. Therefore, ironically, it would see him evicted from Parliament.
Oh, it might not be true, but the mere thought they were approaching that point might wake a few of them up. They seem on autopilot, mindless automatons spouting idiotic partisan attacks (yes, with some good points sprinkled here and there, but that's probably mere chance). That's fine for us amateurs, but they really should do better.
The gamesmanship comes from a fake government desperate to engineer an election on its terms to stay in an office it never earned. Rightly, its opponents are having none of it.
Yes the government have behaved disgracefully. I don't quite see, however, where having no functioning government for however long it takes for the opposition to be confident the tories would lose an election, is a good thing either.
They can remove Boris and not engineer an election on terms Boris wants. It's not either they leave him in place or they must play his game.
It won’t take very long before this wretched government can be scrunched up and discarded like a used tissue. Five weeks tops.
I’m just playing devils advocate but IF Johnson is returned with a majority and subsequently cancels or short circuits any extension granted you will be “happy” (Procedurally speaking) as he has a democratic mandate to do so?
(Just noting my interest in the answer to this, Mr Meeks)
If the duly elected government implements a manifesto commitment I am not going to object to the procedure.
Not that this Prime Minister has any concept of mandate or democratic norms.
"If the duly elected government implements a manifesto commitment I am not going to object to the procedure. "
I wonder whether the PM and A-G would agree with the following:-
"And you know, my friends, the most difficult thing is to explain what a rule of law is, as distinct from just an oppressive law. They say,
Or this:-
The third guarantee of liberty is the rule of law. The idea that all are equal under the law is deeply rooted in our democratic systems and nowhere else..... The thought that no one in the state can escape the law is, after all, a daring one...... This is not a thought which the powerful can easily accept. Those who hold sway in totalitarian states take good care that the rule of law does not challenge their authority."
You realize all of the above applies, with some fierce poignancy, to the Establishment which now seeks to subvert the democratic brexit vote. Right?
The Establishment - whoever that is - are seeking to avoid a disorderly withdrawal from the EU. That incidentally is in line with the manifesto on which the government was elected. There are those who would prefer to remain in the EU and they are entitled to think that and campaign for it and vote for it and take the consequences at the next election. Losing a vote does not mean that you are no longer entitled to say what you think and act on it.
MPs want a different deal. They are being obstructed from that because the current government has no negotiating strategy and has prioritised a date over getting a deal. It has also done absolutely nothing about trying to get any sort of consensus about what such a deal might look like. It is now stuck. It doesn't like this. The fact that this is in large part a result of its own idiotic actions seems to have passed it by. And in consequence it is lashing out at anyone and everyone instead of growing up and taking responsibility.
You excuse all wanky Remainer behavior. But condemn the same from all Leavers. It renders your opinion absurd and otiose, as you are so obviously biased.
The truth is we have been failed by our entire political class (and beyond), from left to right, from leave to stay.
It’s difficult to think of one figure who has come out of this calamity with his/her reputation enhanced. But I’m going to have a go. There must be one. Must be. Surely.
I’m thinking now.
Still thinking.
Christ.
Um...
Andrew Neil?
Don’t be ridiculous. His one-eyed obsessive support of Brexit have made him hopelessly unable to play a detached interviewer. Few political commentators have declined as steeply post-Brexit.
Evening Malc. I hope the turnip harvest was good this year. I've got approx 600 Oedipus complexers I need to throw them at and you just can't get them round here.
This is a disaster the PM could have been somewhat contrite and attempted to reach out but he really is going for the HY war footing look. It is a disgrace, he is a disgrace, he hasn’t answered a single honest question with fact. It should be enforced viewing for people with the right to vote.
I wonder whether the PM and A-G would agree with the following:-
"And you know, my friends, the most difficult thing is to explain what a rule of law is, as distinct from just an oppressive law. They say,
Or this:-
The third guarantee of liberty is the rule of law. The idea that all are equal under the law is deeply rooted in our democratic systems and nowhere else..... The thought that no one in the state can escape the law is, after all, a daring one...... This is not a thought which the powerful can easily accept. Those who hold sway in totalitarian states take good care that the rule of law does not challenge their authority."
You realize all of the above applies, with some fierce poignancy, to the Establishment which now seeks to subvert the democratic brexit vote. Right?
The Establishment - whoever that is - are seeking to avoid a disorderly withdrawal from the EU. That incidentally is in line with the manifesto on which the government was elected. There are those who would prefer to remain in the EU and they are entitled to think that and campaign for it and vote for it and take the consequences at the next election. Losing a vote does not mean that you are no longer entitled to say what you think and act on it.
MPs want a different deal. They are being obstructed from that because the current government has no negotiating strategy and has prioritised a date over getting a deal. It has also done absolutely nothing about trying to get any sort of consensus about what such a deal might look like. It is now stuck. It doesn't like this. The fact that this is in large part a result of its own idiotic actions seems to have passed it by. And in consequence it is lashing out at anyone and everyone instead of growing up and taking responsibility.
It’s difficult to think of one figure who has come out of this calamity with his/her reputation enhanced. But I’m going to have a go. There must be one. Must be. Surely.
That depends what you mean by enhanced. Some few have their reputation for cleverness and competence enhanced, but how they have operated may not enhance their reputation generally.
I wonder whether the PM and A-G would agree with the following:-
"And you know, my friends, the most difficult thing is to explain what a rule of law is, as distinct from just an oppressive law. They say,
Or this:-
The third guarantee of liberty is the rule of law. The idea that all are equal under the law is deeply rooted in our democratic systems and nowhere else..... The thought that no one in the state can escape the law is, after all, a daring one...... This is not a thought which the powerful can easily accept. Those who hold sway in totalitarian states take good care that the rule of law does not challenge their authority."
You realize all of the above applies, with some fierce poignancy, to the Establishment which now seeks to subvert the democratic brexit vote. Right?
The Establishment - whoever that is - are seeking to avoid a disorderly withdrawal from the EU. That incidentally is in line with the manifesto on which the government was elected. There are those who would prefer to remain in the EU and they are entitled to think that and campaign for it and vote for it and take the consequences at the next election. Losing a vote does not mean that you are no longer entitled to say what you think and act on it.
MPs want a different deal. They are being obstructed from that because the current government has no negotiating strategy and has prioritised a date over getting a deal. It has also done absolutely nothing about trying to get any sort of consensus about what such a deal might look like. It is now stuck. It doesn't like this. The fact that this is in large part a result of its own idiotic actions seems to have passed it by. And in consequence it is lashing out at anyone and everyone instead of growing up and taking responsibility.
You excuse all wanky Remainer behavior. But condemn the same from all Leavers. It renders your opinion absurd and otiose, as you are so obviously biased.
The truth is we have been failed by our entire political class (and beyond), from left to right, from leave to stay.
It’s difficult to think of one figure who has come out of this calamity with his/her reputation enhanced. But I’m going to have a go. There must be one. Must be. Surely.
I’m thinking now.
Still thinking.
Christ.
Um...
Andrew Neil?
Have to say , Neil is looking ever more like Mr Potato Head these days, what has happened to him.
Labour MPs are making the referendum mistake again. By keep coming back to Boris calling the Act the “Surrender Act” it’s just embedding it into the nation’s mind.
I wonder whether the PM and A-G would agree with the following:-
"And you know, my friends, the most difficult thing is to explain what a rule of law is, as distinct from just an oppressive law. They say,
Or this:-
The third guarantee of liberty is the rule of law. The idea that all are equal under the law is deeply rooted in our democratic systems and nowhere else..... The thought that no one in the state can escape the law is, after all, a daring one...... This is not a thought which the powerful can easily accept. Those who hold sway in totalitarian states take good care that the rule of law does not challenge their authority."
You realize all of the above applies, with some fierce poignancy, to the Establishment which now seeks to subvert the democratic brexit vote. Right?
The Establishment - whoever that is - are seeking to avoid a disorderly withdrawal from the EU. That incidentally is in line with the manifesto on which the government was elected. There are those who would prefer to remain in the EU and they are entitled to think that and campaign for it and vote for it and take the consequences at the next election. Losing a vote does not mean that you are no longer entitled to say what you think and act on it.
MPs want a different deal. They are being obstructed from that because the current government has no negotiating strategy and has prioritised a date over getting a deal. It has also done absolutely nothing about trying to get any sort of consensus about what such a deal might look like. It is now stuck. It doesn't like this. The fact that this is in large part a result of its own idiotic actions seems to have passed it by. And in consequence it is lashing out at anyone and everyone instead of growing up and taking responsibility.
It’s difficult to think of one figure who has come out of this calamity with his/her reputation enhanced. But I’m going to have a go. There must be one. Must be. Surely.
That depends what you mean by enhanced. Some few have their reputation for cleverness and competence enhanced, but how they have operated may not enhance their reputation generally.
Dominic Cummings has come out with his reputation enhanced.
A reputation for arrogance, dishonesty, incompetence and stupidity admittedly, but nevertheless that's still one reputation that's been enhanced and widely disseminated.
It’s quite obvious that the recalled Parliament is now purely a platform for the Conservatives to trail clips that they’ll subsequently use in targeted campaign ads in the next GE, whenever it comes. And come it must at some point in the next 2 1/2 years.
I wonder whether the PM and A-G would agree with the following:-
"And you know, my friends, the most difficult thing is to explain what a rule of law is, as distinct from just an oppressive law. They say,
Or this:-
The third guarantee of liberty is the rule of law. The idea that all are equal under the law is deeply rooted in our democratic systems and nowhere else..... The thought that no one in the state can escape the law is, after all, a daring one...... This is not a thought which the powerful can easily accept. Those who hold sway in totalitarian states take good care that the rule of law does not challenge their authority."
You realize all of the above applies, with some fierce poignancy, to the Establishment which now seeks to subvert the democratic brexit vote. Right?
The Establishment - whoever that is - are seeking to avoid a disorderly withdrawal from the EU. That incidentally is in line and has prioritised a date over getting a deal. It has also done absolutely nothing about trying to get any sort of consensus about what such a deal might look like. It is now stuck. It doesn't like this. The fact that this is in large part a result of its own idiotic actions seems to have passed it by. And in consequence it is lashing out at anyone and everyone instead of growing up and taking responsibility.
You excuse all wanky Remainer behavior. But condemn the same from all Leavers. It renders your opinion absurd and otiose, as you are so obviously biased.
The truth is we have been failed by our entire political class (and beyond), from left to right, from leave to stay.
It’s difficult to think of one figure who has come out of this calamity with his/her reputation enhanced. But I’m going to have a go. There must be one. Must be. Surely.
I’m thinking now.
Still thinking.
Christ.
Um...
Andrew Neil?
Don’t be ridiculous. His one-eyed obsessive support of Brexit have made him hopelessly unable to play a detached interviewer. Few political commentators have declined as steeply post-Brexit.
Nonsense. Neil subjected Boris to his most illuminating[y forensic interview
It’s quite obvious that the recalled Parliament is now purely a platform for the Conservatives to trail clips that they’ll subsequently use in targeted campaign ads in the next GE, whenever it comes. And come it must at some point in the next 2 1/2 years.
That’s its only purpose.
Carefully cut, Johnson's speech tonight with Corbyn's speech yesterday would make a fabulous PPB for the Liberal Democrats.
Bozo is so detested by 99% of Labour MPs and the rest of the opposition that they’d rather chew their own leg off than give him what will be perceived as a win.
Bozos continued surrender act comments are clearly designed to goad opposition MPs .
And yet, for all that I dislike Johnson, those surrender act comments are entirely accurate.
There are almost no 'good guys' in this Parliament, they are almost all extremists of differing hues.
Looking at the list of wars involving various parts of these islands, I see one called the Rough Wooing, which is probably much more well known to the Scots, and probably not as folksy as its name might suggest.
If Edward VI had lived to adulthood, he would have been married off to the lady who would become Mary Queen of Scots.
And if Edward V had lived to adulthood, Edward VI would never have existed.
(Not that that was Edward V's fault, of course.)
If Eve had not bumped into Adam ..... of all the orchards in all the countries in all the world, she walks into mine
Well that's been clear for some time. Probably even back to Theresa May.
Boris should just write the letter tonight asking for an extension to 31st Dec or 31st Jan so we can have a general election.
Then once agreed move the bill for the election stating 7th November 2019 is the date in law and lets just get the hell on with this.
It would save a lot of time and shortcut a lot of pointless argument, but it's a no goer. Johnson will not write a letter asking for an extension, at the very least not until his sham negotiations have run their course.
I wonder whether the PM and A-G would agree with the following:-
"And you know, my friends, the most difficult thing is to explain what a rule of law is, as distinct from just an oppressive law. They say,
Or this:-
The third guarantee of liberty is the rule of law. The idea that all are equal under the law is deeply rooted in our democratic systems and nowhere else..... The thought that no one in the state can escape the law is, after all, a daring one...... This is not a thought which the powerful can easily accept. Those who hold sway in totalitarian states take good care that the rule of law does not challenge their authority."
You realize all of the above applies, with some fierce poignancy, to the Establishment which now seeks to subvert the democratic brexit vote. Right?
The Establishment - whoever that is - are seeking to avoid a disorderly withdrawal from the EU. That incidentally is in line with the manifesto on which the government was elected. There are those who would prefer to remain in the EU and they are entitled to think that and campaign for it and vote for it and take the consequences at the next election. Losing a vote does not mean that you are no longer entitled to say what you think and act on it.
MPs want a different deal. They are being obstructed from that because the current government has no negotiating strategy and has prioritised a date over getting a deal. It has also done absolutely nothing about trying to get any sort of consensus about what such a deal might look like. It is now stuck. It doesn't like this. The fact that this is in large part a result of its own idiotic actions seems to have passed it by. And in consequence it is lashing out at anyone and everyone instead of growing up and taking responsibility.
You excuse all wanky Remainer behavior. But condemn the same from all Leavers. It renders your opinion absurd and otiose, as you are so obviously biased.
The truth is we have been failed by our entire political class (and beyond), from left to right, from leave to stay.
It’s difficult to think of one figure who has come out of this calamity with his/her reputation enhanced. But I’m going to have a go. There must be one. Must be. Surely.
I’m thinking now.
Still thinking.
Christ.
Um...
Andrew Neil?
Have to say , Neil is looking ever more like Mr Potato Head these days, what has happened to him.
He’s getting on a bit now. 70 years old. I’m afraid it happens to us all, malc
Labour MPs are making the referendum mistake again. By keep coming back to Boris calling the Act the “Surrender Act” it’s just embedding it into the nation’s mind.
Labour MPs are useless collectively and individually. Grow a pair and call a VONC
Looking at the list of wars involving various parts of these islands, I see one called the Rough Wooing, which is probably much more well known to the Scots, and probably not as folksy as its name might suggest.
If Edward VI had lived to adulthood, he would have been married off to the lady who would become Mary Queen of Scots.
And if Edward V had lived to adulthood, Edward VI would never have existed.
(Not that that was Edward V's fault, of course.)
If Eve had not bumped into Adam ..... of all the orchards in all the countries in all the world, she walks into mine
Indeed yes. And after that, she turned over a new leaf.
You can make it binding I believe - the authorising Act just has to say something like 'the result will be enacted'. If memory serves the AV referendum bill did, and the EU one did not. Conspiracists would suggest intentionally, but more likely just failure to spot by the Commons.
A binding referendum only works for something that's ready to be implemented immediately, so couldn't be done for the EU ref.
Well that's been clear for some time. Probably even back to Theresa May.
Boris should just write the letter tonight asking for an extension to 31st Dec or 31st Jan so we can have a general election.
Then once agreed move the bill for the election stating 7th November 2019 is the date in law and lets just get the hell on with this.
It would save a lot of time and shortcut a lot of pointless argument, but it's a no goer. Johnson will not write a letter asking for an extension, at the very least not until his sham negotiations have run their course.
Probably... But you never quite know with Cummings.
Boris Johnson doesn't give a shit if another MP is murdered. What a guy.
The Tory party imitated Labour by electing a thick posho with zero credibility and a long history of supporting violence, including violence against MPs, sexual infidelity and dishonesty.
I wonder if they realised he was going to be quite such a perfect mirror of Corbyn.
The government will seek a three-day recess for Tory conference next week. A Tory source said they hoped Parliament would not sit on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.
I wonder whether the PM and A-G would agree with the following:-
"And you know, my friends, the most difficult thing is to explain what a rule of law is, as distinct from just an oppressive law. They say,
Or this:-
The third guarantee of liberty is the rule of law. The idea that all are equal under the law is deeply rooted in our democratic systems and nowhere else..... The thought that no one in the state can escape the law is, after all, a daring one...... This is not a thought which the powerful can easily accept. Those who hold sway in totalitarian states take good care that the rule of law does not challenge their authority."
You realize all of the above applies, with some fierce poignancy, to the Establishment which now seeks to subvert the democratic brexit vote. Right?
The Establishment - whoever that is - are seeking to avoid a disorderly withdrawal from the EU. That incidentally is in line with the manifesto on which the government was elected. There are those who would prefer to remain in the EU and they are entitled to think that and campaign for it and vote for it and take the consequences at the next election. Losing a vote does not mean that you are no longer entitled to say what you think and act on it. SNIP
You excuse all wanky Remainer behavior. But condemn the same from all Leavers. It renders your opinion absurd and otiose, as you are so obviously biased.
The truth is we have been failed by our entire political class (and beyond), from left to right, from leave to stay.
It’s difficult to think of one figure who has come out of this calamity with his/her reputation enhanced. But I’m going to have a go. There must be one. Must be. Surely.
I’m thinking now.
Still thinking.
Christ.
Um...
Andrew Neil?
Have to say , Neil is looking ever more like Mr Potato Head these days, what has happened to him.
He’s getting on a bit now. 70 years old. I’m afraid it happens to us all, malc
Luckily I have a few years to go and am as handsome and dashing as ever. However I was shocked at how he was looking the other night, did not look well at all.
The government will seek a three-day recess for Tory conference next week. A Tory source said they hoped Parliament would not sit on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.
Bozo is so detested by 99% of Labour MPs and the rest of the opposition that they’d rather chew their own leg off than give him what will be perceived as a win.
Bozos continued surrender act comments are clearly designed to goad opposition MPs .
And yet, for all that I dislike Johnson, those surrender act comments are entirely accurate.
There are almost no 'good guys' in this Parliament, they are almost all extremists of differing hues.
Totally agree - everything is now completely polarised with neither side able to see that they are both to blame.
The government will seek a three-day recess for Tory conference next week. A Tory source said they hoped Parliament would not sit on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.
And I hope I’ll win the Euromillions.
I think the opposition would be silly to try and block if they want to continue to claim the moral high ground.
The government will seek a three-day recess for Tory conference next week. A Tory source said they hoped Parliament would not sit on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.
If Labour have any sense at all they will grant that. After all, a conference only half as bad as the Labour train wreck we've just watched and the Tories are finished for fifty years.
So I am expecting Labour to try and block a recess...
The government will seek a three-day recess for Tory conference next week. A Tory source said they hoped Parliament would not sit on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.
The government will seek a three-day recess for Tory conference next week. A Tory source said they hoped Parliament would not sit on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.
And I hope I’ll win the Euromillions.
Denying a recess would be petty.
This government can expect absolutely no favours. Its allergy to Parliament is going to give it anaphylactic shock.
The government will seek a three-day recess for Tory conference next week. A Tory source said they hoped Parliament would not sit on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.
And I hope I’ll win the Euromillions.
Denying a recess would be petty.
Yes it would. However, given the government acted unlawfully and shows no contrition (indeed, they continue to attack the judges and court while pretending they are not, very lamely), it has probably earned a level of pettiness from its opponents.
However they should not push that, and really should actually take control, and not just wait for Boris's polling to worsen so they can call an election then.
The government will seek a three-day recess for Tory conference next week. A Tory source said they hoped Parliament would not sit on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.
And I hope I’ll win the Euromillions.
Denying a recess would be petty.
This government can expect absolutely no favours. Its allergy to Parliament is going to give it anaphylactic shock.
Labour MPs are making the referendum mistake again. By keep coming back to Boris calling the Act the “Surrender Act” it’s just embedding it into the nation’s mind.
I'm really glad other people are saying this. Cox's statement today made my blood run cold.
I found it very entertaining , he is a chancer of the first order but he put on a show.
It was certainly a bravura act, and like you I enjoyed it. It was mostly bullshit but brilliantly served up.
Amidst the bullshit was however a little gem. He would not have put his name to a proroguation request that went beyond the end of October. That was a clear acknowledgement that his view was that proroguation was justiciable.
His view therefore differed from the judgement of the SC only in respect of timing and length of proroguation.
Comments
And as I've said repeatedly personally I'd have voted for May's deal on MV2 and thought MPs (yes ERG ones too) were stupid not to vote for it so we could move on.
But its all history now.
"Boris when you inevitably f*ck up I'll be there to pick up the pieces and in the meantime I'm here doing some essential parliamentary brown-nosing."
The Fixed Term Parliaments Act is an excellent deterrent for rogue governments.
https://order-order.com/2019/09/25/star-of-labours-broadcast-tonight-is-conspiracy-theorist/
no u
(Edit - that isn't sarcasm, btw.)
Not that this Prime Minister has any concept of mandate or democratic norms.
It would be a sobering moment for many who right now are getting off on their outrage.
(Not that that was Edward V's fault, of course.)
It could be done now, if one were to put a deal to a referendum.
Whilst it is good to see the Supreme Court judgement bring common sense back to the use of prorogative powers, I would argue that its immediate impact on the Brexit debate is less than its long-term significance as a bulward against executive overreach.
The downside is that we now have close to 3 and a half weeks of Parliament being in session, but nothing significant happening until we find out Johnson's response to the new law and the immediate aftermath of this in the third week of October.
I would pencil in for an election in early December, but there are plenty of ways it could be delayed longer than that.
The truth is we have been failed by our entire political class (and beyond), from left to right, from leave to stay.
It’s difficult to think of one figure who has come out of this calamity with his/her reputation enhanced. But I’m going to have a go. There must be one. Must be. Surely.
I’m thinking now.
Still thinking.
Christ.
Um...
Andrew Neil?
"Private school for me not for thee" is par for the course for Labour supporters.
Bozo is so detested by 99% of Labour MPs and the rest of the opposition that they’d rather chew their own leg off than give him what will be perceived as a win.
Bozos continued surrender act comments are clearly designed to goad opposition MPs .
Also the spontaneous applause for Boris was epic trolling.
Me too.
Boris should just write the letter tonight asking for an extension to 31st Dec or 31st Jan so we can have a general election.
Then once agreed move the bill for the election stating 7th November 2019 is the date in law and lets just get the hell on with this.
A reputation for arrogance, dishonesty, incompetence and stupidity admittedly, but nevertheless that's still one reputation that's been enhanced and widely disseminated.
That’s its only purpose.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-48971407/andrew-neil-tests-boris-johnson-s-knowledge-of-gatt-24
Go and have some more figs and blue cheese.
There are almost no 'good guys' in this Parliament, they are almost all extremists of differing hues.
I wonder if they realised he was going to be quite such a perfect mirror of Corbyn.
So I am expecting Labour to try and block a recess...
Try not to be too partisan. It’s boring. If you can’t find anyone in politics you are allowed to trawl the worlds of journalism, law and academe.
However they should not push that, and really should actually take control, and not just wait for Boris's polling to worsen so they can call an election then.
Joanna Cherry
https://twitter.com/agentp22/status/842515167904759809?s=21
Amidst the bullshit was however a little gem. He would not have put his name to a proroguation request that went beyond the end of October. That was a clear acknowledgement that his view was that proroguation was justiciable.
His view therefore differed from the judgement of the SC only in respect of timing and length of proroguation.