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  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    Just a thought. Does the Cox advice actually come from recent events? May discussed proroguing as a technical wheeze to get around the speaker not allowing the same thing to be voted on repeatedly in the same session.

    Indeed is it possible that that was where the details shy Johnson got the idea from in the first place, possibly having not understood what the motivation was at the time?
  • Scott_P said:


    Damn, where did I put the ROFLcopter...

    It has been put in to storage ready for the exit poll on election night.

    There are going to be some traumatised Labour supporters on here who will need cheering up.
  • JackW said:

    Massive Popcorn Alert.

    JRM first up in the HoC shortly after 11:30am.

    I'll be sat bolt upright for this one.
  • CD13 said:

    The Dick Emery Show was awful. Even though it was very popular, it wasn't funny, relying on catchphrases and bad jokes. But it was popular for some reason.

    The Black and White Minstrels was massively popular. Not my cup of tea, but it broke many records for audience share. It was never overtaken by alternative comedy and remained popular right until it was taken off by the BBC.

    Trying to pretend it became unpopular is re-writing history. It was racist and that was the reason the BBC took it off alr.

    The final Dick Emery show:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-7HWGHxq4Q&list=PLR4ywKQXOmmaGHqz931csJJijAoPFYkMg&index=6

    and the final Black and White Minstrels:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJqqoWqD3jQ
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    Curious statistics in this Guardian article.

    52% of Britons take 100% of international flights. 48% take no flights at all.

    *innocent face*

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/25/1-of-english-residents-take-one-fifth-of-overseas-flights-survey-shows?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    It's a shame they don't say how many flights it takes to put you into the top 1%/10%/20%/etc

    I'm sure seanT, late of this parish, would have delighted in telling us that he was in the top 0.1%, or something. He was a travel writer, you know.
    Yes I remember him. Poor thing confused being a good writer (which he undoubtedly was) with having any kind of a discerning or superior palate.
    I once saw a copy of The Ice Twins at a petrol station near East Midlands Airport. I moved it to behind all the other shite books to impede its sale.
    "The whole book was heavily over punctuated, with commas here, there and everywhere. Give this one a wide berth. You're missing nothing."

    (Amazon Review)
    lol. I may not have SeanT's wit, charm and effortless virility, but I can see one thing: you guys are eerily obsessed with him. You display a kind of badly-disguised, morally contorted hero-worship.
  • TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:



    Boris is all about doing things in good faith.

    Note the final sentence. I very much doubt the Palace feels obliged to take his word as sacrosanct now. They presumably have already been actively consulting the great and the good about who might fill his shoes if necessary.
    Not correct. They remain passengers in this. They are not going to become actors.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/60641/cabinet-manual.pdf

    "2.9 command the confidence of the House of Commons in his or her place.
    2.10 The application of these principles depends on the specific circumstances and it remaon in which clear advice could be given to the Sovereign on who should be asked to form a government. It remains to be seen whether or not these examples will be regarded in future as having established a constitutional convention."

    So the Prime Minister has a special responsibility but not a sole responsibility. Others can and should be contacting the Palace to give their views in times of uncertainty. So presumably they are.
    You'll have to trust me that the Queen is not about to take any kind of an active part in the political process.
    Agreed. It is incredibly dangerous for the Monarch to be sucked in to this quagmire.
    This is incorrect.

    The Sovereign, through the Crown in Parliament and prerogative powers, takes a huge part in the constitutional political process. The seismic difference is that it is not party political.
    Sozza Jack no one respects your finger on the pulse of the monarchy (since inception?) more than me. But the palace is going to do nothing active. It will at all times be advised by and follow the instructions of/agree to the politicians.
    Doesn't it depend what he actually said to her?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:
    Geoffrey Cox has the ability to be profoundly stupid as only clever people can be.
    He is just a stupid oaf with an ego I am afraid.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Scott_P said:
    They think it good to sound Trumpesque?

  • Byronic said:



    As an international male model, I must take 50 flights a year minimum. I’m not delighted by the idea of a “progressive flight tax” - where you pay more and more for each ticket, though you get one cheap, untaxed flight a year.

    It’s a terrible, communistic, North Korean device. 99% of people would have the travel equivalent of a Trabant. One return flight a year. That’s your lot. The super rich 1%, who can afford the most stringent taxes, would have endless flights, the equivalent of a BMW.

    It’s such a bad idea that, in this present age of madness, it will probably be tried.

    It sounds a great idea, avoiding penalising families who want to take a single break but escalating so that even businesses shift faster into teleconferencing etc. But I missed it altogether - who's suggested that?
    In the Guardian article they cite the Committee on Climate Change as suggesting it as an option for curbing demand for air travel. The Guardian report didn't mention any of the other policy options.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Boris Johnson is that guy who sees everyone buying a few glasses of expensive wine on business trips, on the edge of the expenses policy but accepted, and therefore decides to blow thousands of pounds of company money on strippers.

    Therefore ruining it for everyone.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856
    Byronic said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    Curious statistics in this Guardian article.

    52% of Britons take 100% of international flights. 48% take no flights at all.

    *innocent face*

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/25/1-of-english-residents-take-one-fifth-of-overseas-flights-survey-shows?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    It's a shame they don't say how many flights it takes to put you into the top 1%/10%/20%/etc

    I'm sure seanT, late of this parish, would have delighted in telling us that he was in the top 0.1%, or something. He was a travel writer, you know.
    Yes I remember him. Poor thing confused being a good writer (which he undoubtedly was) with having any kind of a discerning or superior palate.
    I once saw a copy of The Ice Twins at a petrol station near East Midlands Airport. I moved it to behind all the other shite books to impede its sale.
    "The whole book was heavily over punctuated, with commas here, there and everywhere. Give this one a wide berth. You're missing nothing."

    (Amazon Review)
    lol. I may not have SeanT's wit, charm and effortless virility, but I can see one thing: you guys are eerily obsessed with him. You display a kind of badly-disguised, morally contorted hero-worship.
    I freely admit he makes me laugh from time to time. I even voted for him back in the pb awards 2007 I think.
  • Greta Thunberg would be proud of me. By 10am I'll be on my fourth train of the morning.
  • egg said:

    Scott_P said:
    They think it good to sound Trumpesque?

    Bit of a silly comment by Gove.

    Populism will take care of itself now, it doesn't need forced references.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    Byronic said:

    As an international male model, I must take 50 flights a year minimum. I’m not delighted by the idea of a “progressive flight tax” - where you pay more and more for each ticket, though you get one cheap, untaxed flight a year.

    It’s a terrible, communistic, North Korean device. 99% of people would have the travel equivalent of a Trabant. One return flight a year. That’s your lot. The super rich 1%, who can afford the most stringent taxes, would have endless flights, the equivalent of a BMW.

    It’s such a bad idea that, in this present age of madness, it will probably be tried.

    Over recent years, flying seems to have become more and more difficult. It reached the poinbt some years ago were I just decided not to fly any more. I cannot be bothered with the hoops I have to jump through or the attitude of many airport/airline staff.
    Schiphol have new scanning machines which mean you don’t need to remove your liquids from your bag.

    Sounds like a small thing but makes the whole process appreciably less irritating.
    Yes, they’re very good. Coming to Heathrow soon too.
  • Byronic said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    Curious statistics in this Guardian article.

    52% of Britons take 100% of international flights. 48% take no flights at all.

    *innocent face*

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/25/1-of-english-residents-take-one-fifth-of-overseas-flights-survey-shows?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    It's a shame they don't say how many flights it takes to put you into the top 1%/10%/20%/etc

    I'm sure seanT, late of this parish, would have delighted in telling us that he was in the top 0.1%, or something. He was a travel writer, you know.
    Yes I remember him. Poor thing confused being a good writer (which he undoubtedly was) with having any kind of a discerning or superior palate.
    I once saw a copy of The Ice Twins at a petrol station near East Midlands Airport. I moved it to behind all the other shite books to impede its sale.
    "The whole book was heavily over punctuated, with commas here, there and everywhere. Give this one a wide berth. You're missing nothing."

    (Amazon Review)
    lol. I may not have SeanT's wit, charm and effortless virility, but I can see one thing: you guys are eerily obsessed with him. You display a kind of badly-disguised, morally contorted hero-worship.
    Not all of us. Trust me on this.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Greta Thunberg would be proud of me. By 10am I'll be on my fourth train of the morning.

    Sounds awful.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    No one is discussing the other possible impossible. A Tory-BXP alliance, to deliver Brexit.

    If it could be engineered, it would mean the Leave side would romp home to an enormous victory. Also, Corbyn would be demolished. So it may be best for the country, too.

    What would Farage demand? What would Boris offer?



  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Byronic said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    Curious statistics in this Guardian article.

    52% of Britons take 100% of international flights. 48% take no flights at all.

    *innocent face*

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/25/1-of-english-residents-take-one-fifth-of-overseas-flights-survey-shows?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    It's a shame they don't say how many flights it takes to put you into the top 1%/10%/20%/etc

    I'm sure seanT, late of this parish, would have delighted in telling us that he was in the top 0.1%, or something. He was a travel writer, you know.
    Yes I remember him. Poor thing confused being a good writer (which he undoubtedly was) with having any kind of a discerning or superior palate.
    I once saw a copy of The Ice Twins at a petrol station near East Midlands Airport. I moved it to behind all the other shite books to impede its sale.
    "The whole book was heavily over punctuated, with commas here, there and everywhere. Give this one a wide berth. You're missing nothing."

    (Amazon Review)
    lol. I may not have SeanT's wit, charm and effortless virility, but I can see one thing: you guys are eerily obsessed with him. You display a kind of badly-disguised, morally contorted hero-worship.
    I was disappointed with the punctuation in the Ice Twins.

    Commas were abundant, but I had to wade through a lot of extraneous matter on child abuse, adultery, ghosts, murder and sexual perversion before finding the Colon and Semicolon.
  • Given the incompetence of our governing class shouldn't the Mail headline be 'Who Ruins Britain?' :wink:

    For all the fun and games yesterday the really important event was the ONS including student bad debt in the government borrowing figures.

    That makes the current system of university funding untenable and provides a vote winning opportunity for any party which wishes to reform it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    My main recollection of Dick Emery was that he had a very complicated love life.

    He was awful
    Yes he was . Strangely, Harry Enfield modeled his act on him.

    Enfield was a lot better though.
    Peter , we had nothing much else to laugh at though. Mind you now we have 100 channels and they are all shite.
  • Scott_P said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris will go into opposition rather than stay PM and agree to extend

    Such a winner...
    This is one of those situations where you need to lose to win.

    You can tell the penny is starting to drop on here about where this is heading.

    The government resigning is checkmate.
    This sounds like something out of Blackadder.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:



    Boris is all about doing things in good faith.

    Note the final sentence. I very much doubt the Palace feels obliged to take his word as sacrosanct now. They presumably have already been actively consulting the great and the good about who might fill his shoes if necessary.
    Not correct. They remain passengers in this. They are not going to become actors.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/60641/cabinet-manual.pdf

    "2.9 command the confidence of the House of Commons in his or her place.
    2.10 The application of these principles depends on the specific circumstances and it remaon in which clear advice could be given to the Sovereign on who should be asked to form a government. It remains to be seen whether or not these examples will be regarded in future as having established a constitutional convention."

    So the Prime Minister has a special responsibility but not a sole responsibility. Others can and should be contacting the Palace to give their views in times of uncertainty. So presumably they are.
    You'll have to trust me that the Queen is not about to take any kind of an active part in the political process.
    Agreed. It is incredibly dangerous for the Monarch to be sucked in to this quagmire.
    This is incorrect.

    The Sovereign, through the Crown in Parliament and prerogative powers, takes a huge part in the constitutional political process. The seismic difference is that it is not party political.
    Sozza Jack no one respects your finger on the pulse of the monarchy (since inception?) more than me. But the palace is going to do nothing active. It will at all times be advised by and follow the instructions of/agree to the politicians.
    It is never "instructions". Nobody instructs the Queen.

    My main point is that the position of the Sovereign is clear. The monarch is central to the process but one step removed from the the grubby process of party politics.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2019

    CD13 said:

    The Dick Emery Show was awful. Even though it was very popular, it wasn't funny, relying on catchphrases and bad jokes. But it was popular for some reason.

    The Black and White Minstrels was massively popular. Not my cup of tea, but it broke many records for audience share. It was never overtaken by alternative comedy and remained popular right until it was taken off by the BBC.

    Trying to pretend it became unpopular is re-writing history. It was racist and that was the reason the BBC took it off alr.

    The final Dick Emery show:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-7HWGHxq4Q&list=PLR4ywKQXOmmaGHqz931csJJijAoPFYkMg&index=6

    and the final Black and White Minstrels:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJqqoWqD3jQ
    Blimey, both are absolutely painful. On par with The Mash Report
  • Byronic said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    Curious statistics in this Guardian article.

    52% of Britons take 100% of international flights. 48% take no flights at all.

    *innocent face*

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/25/1-of-english-residents-take-one-fifth-of-overseas-flights-survey-shows?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    It's a shame they don't say how many flights it takes to put you into the top 1%/10%/20%/etc

    I'm sure seanT, late of this parish, would have delighted in telling us that he was in the top 0.1%, or something. He was a travel writer, you know.
    Yes I remember him. Poor thing confused being a good writer (which he undoubtedly was) with having any kind of a discerning or superior palate.
    I once saw a copy of The Ice Twins at a petrol station near East Midlands Airport. I moved it to behind all the other shite books to impede its sale.
    "The whole book was heavily over punctuated, with commas here, there and everywhere. Give this one a wide berth. You're missing nothing."

    (Amazon Review)
    lol. I may not have SeanT's wit, charm and effortless virility, but I can see one thing: you guys are eerily obsessed with him. You display a kind of badly-disguised, morally contorted hero-worship.
    I freely admit he makes me laugh from time to time. I even voted for him back in the pb awards 2007 I think.
    No need to feel ashamed. There are people on here who voted for Plato, but they tend to keep quiet about it.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    edited September 2019
    Can one of our learned lawyers here explain the significance of the missing signed affidavit ? I understand this was supposed to inform the court why Parliament needed to be prorogued. But no one was prepared to sign it. In fact, rumour has it that Alexander Johnson and Rees-Mogg were told not to sign it.
  • isam said:

    CD13 said:

    The Dick Emery Show was awful. Even though it was very popular, it wasn't funny, relying on catchphrases and bad jokes. But it was popular for some reason.

    The Black and White Minstrels was massively popular. Not my cup of tea, but it broke many records for audience share. It was never overtaken by alternative comedy and remained popular right until it was taken off by the BBC.

    Trying to pretend it became unpopular is re-writing history. It was racist and that was the reason the BBC took it off alr.

    The final Dick Emery show:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-7HWGHxq4Q&list=PLR4ywKQXOmmaGHqz931csJJijAoPFYkMg&index=6

    and the final Black and White Minstrels:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJqqoWqD3jQ
    Blimey both are absolutely painful. On par with The Mash Report
    Which one is Trudeau?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    CD13 said:

    Dr Fox,

    "A poor taste quip."

    They're often the best, but I was concerned that you young 'uns were misremembering how awful the Dick Emery Show was. Les Dawson did something similar but his portrayal was accurate.

    As a fifty something it is flattering 5o be thought a young 'un!

    The Dick Emery Show hasn't aged well. Some comedy doesn't, the The Goodies for example, while other stuff has, such as Fawlty Towers.
  • Sandpit said:

    eristdoof said:

    I used to read Slashdot regularly fifteen to twenty years ago. Now, when I pop in every so often, it seems a little dead. ISTR there was a takeover that changed it slightly?

    And this tells me that I'm getting old - and so is t'Internet and t'web. We're seeing a second generation born of people who have lived whilst the web has existed in a popular, commercial sense. Their world growing up is massively different to the one I grew up in - and much of that is down to the web.

    Slashdot! Dear heavens... a blast from the past. I never liked it all that much because of some of the "theological" arguments on programming style or the GPL, etc. I preferred reading Pamela Jones's Groklaw at the time.

    As for the internet, I can remember lying in the bath reading a computer mag of the time that had two interesting stories about new technologies. One about a new graphical interface for the internet and a tool call Mosaic to access it, and the other about the hottest new language of the day - Java.

    I used to have to access the internet via WAIS, ftp and telnet via CIX. Then Demon;s dial-up set me free at a sizzling 33.6K :D:D
    There were text based internet "browsers", but AFAI remember Mosaic was a really big step forward in making the internet usable.

    I had no such problems with download speeds as my online access was at uni, it was a good time to be a postgraduate student.


    Yes - Mosaic inspired Netscape and the rest was history and we all used Netscape because Bill Gates said the Internet was a waste of time and Micro$oft were not wasting any time on it. Then came the mother of all backtracks and life for webpage builders more then doubled in complexity when the deformed, evil troll that was IE5 was foisted on us all.
    Followed by the even more demented IE6, which for some reason every large company decided to write an intranet for - despite the fact that it was utterly incompatible with any other browser before or since. Must have consumed billions of $currencyunit over the years to put that all right.
    IE6 has a special place in hell where it deserves to roast for all eternity.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    isam said:

    CD13 said:

    The Dick Emery Show was awful. Even though it was very popular, it wasn't funny, relying on catchphrases and bad jokes. But it was popular for some reason.

    The Black and White Minstrels was massively popular. Not my cup of tea, but it broke many records for audience share. It was never overtaken by alternative comedy and remained popular right until it was taken off by the BBC.

    Trying to pretend it became unpopular is re-writing history. It was racist and that was the reason the BBC took it off alr.

    The final Dick Emery show:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-7HWGHxq4Q&list=PLR4ywKQXOmmaGHqz931csJJijAoPFYkMg&index=6

    and the final Black and White Minstrels:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJqqoWqD3jQ
    Blimey, both are absolutely painful. On par with The Mash Report
    Justin Trudeau back in the news?
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:



    Boris is all about doing things in good faith.

    Note the final sentence. I very much doubt the Palace feels obliged to take his word as sacrosanct now. They presumably have already been actively consulting the great and the good about who might fill his shoes if necessary.
    Not correct. They remain passengers in this. They are not going to become actors.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/60641/cabinet-manual.pdf

    "2.9 command the confidence of the House of Commons in his or her place.
    2.10 The application of these principles depends on the specific circumstances and it remaon in which clear advice could be given to the Sovereign on who should be asked to form a government. It remains to be seen whether or not these examples will be regarded in future as having established a constitutional convention."

    So the Prime Minister has a special responsibility but not a sole responsibility. Others can and should be contacting the Palace to give their views in times of uncertainty. So presumably they are.
    You'll have to trust me that the Queen is not about to take any kind of an active part in the political process.
    Agreed. It is incredibly dangerous for the Monarch to be sucked in to this quagmire.
    This is incorrect.

    The Sovereign, through the Crown in Parliament and prerogative powers, takes a huge part in the constitutional political process. The seismic difference is that it is not party political.
    Sozza Jack no one respects your finger on the pulse of the monarchy (since inception?) more than me. But the palace is going to do nothing active. It will at all times be advised by and follow the instructions of/agree to the politicians.
    Doesn't it depend what he actually said to her?
    I never disclose confidential chats .... :wink:
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited September 2019
    Byronic said:

    No one is discussing the other possible impossible. A Tory-BXP alliance, to deliver Brexit.

    If it could be engineered, it would mean the Leave side would romp home to an enormous victory. Also, Corbyn would be demolished. So it may be best for the country, too.

    What would Farage demand? What would Boris offer?



    It certainly became a lot more likely after yesterdays little reported decision from the NCA that Banks didn't take money from the Russians to fund Leave.EU.
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    My main recollection of Dick Emery was that he had a very complicated love life.

    He was awful
    Yes he was . Strangely, Harry Enfield modeled his act on him.

    Enfield was a lot better though.
    Peter , we had nothing much else to laugh at though. Mind you now we have 100 channels and they are all shite.
    You like a laugh? Try the Parliament Channel.
  • Byronic said:

    No one is discussing the other possible impossible. A Tory-BXP alliance, to deliver Brexit.

    If it could be engineered, it would mean the Leave side would romp home to an enormous victory. Also, Corbyn would be demolished. So it may be best for the country, too.

    What would Farage demand? What would Boris offer?



    I doubt Farage wants Brexit.

    Or at least wants Brexit a lot less than he wants to posture about it.
  • Can one of our learned lawyers here explain the significance of the missing signed affidavit ? I understand this was supposed to inform the court why Parliament needed to be prorogued. But no one was prepared to sign it. In fact, rumour has it that Alexander Johnson and Rees-Mogg were told not to sign it.

    IANAL but my understanding is that whoever signed would be risking perjury proceedings.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856
    Jack W - The Queen always acts on the advice of her ministers. She can't be above party politics - she sides with the governing party. Apparently she has no choice but to do so.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,893
    edited September 2019

    TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:



    Boris is all about doing things in good faith.

    Note the final sentence. I very much doubt the Palace feels obliged to take his word as sacrosanct now. They presumably have already been actively consulting the great and the good about who might fill his shoes if necessary.
    Not correct. They remain passengers in this. They are not going to become actors.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/60641/cabinet-manual.pdf

    "2.9 command the confidence of the House of Commons in his or her place.
    2.10 The application of these principles depends on the specific circumstances and it remaon in which clear advice could be given to the Sovereign on who should be asked to form a government. It remains to be seen whether or not these examples will be regarded in future as having established a constitutional convention."

    So the Prime Minister has a special responsibility but not a sole responsibility. Others can and should be contacting the Palace to give their views in times of uncertainty. So presumably they are.
    You'll have to trust me that the Queen is not about to take any kind of an active part in the political process.
    Agreed. It is incredibly dangerous for the Monarch to be sucked in to this quagmire.
    This is incorrect.

    The Sovereign, through the Crown in Parliament and prerogative powers, takes a huge part in the constitutional political process. The seismic difference is that it is not party political.
    Sozza Jack no one respects your finger on the pulse of the monarchy (since inception?) more than me. But the palace is going to do nothing active. It will at all times be advised by and follow the instructions of/agree to the politicians.
    Doesn't it depend what he actually said to her?
    Indeed, and with what intent.

    I'm also having great difficulty with the notion that the Palace and HM are passive instruments of the pols - quite apart from what happened in 2014 and has been published in the last two Private Eyes.

    Firstly, there must surely be limits as to what she will agree to - in which case there is an element of active decision involved, and HM is not after all a passive agent.

    And secondly despite that, if the Queen only does what Mr Johnson tells her to do, what's the point of her as a head of state? Handing out the medals and KCMGs is not a sufficient answer.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Carnyx said:

    TOPPING said:

    JackW said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:



    Boris is all about doing things in good faith.

    Note the final sentence. I very much doubt the Palace feels obliged to take his word as sacrosanct now. They presumably have already been actively consulting the great and the good about who might fill his shoes if necessary.
    Not correct. They remain passengers in this. They are not going to become actors.
    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/60641/cabinet-manual.pdf

    "2.9 command the confidence of the House of Commons in his or her place.
    2.10 The application of these principles depends on the specific circumstances and it remaon in which clear advice could be given to the Sovereign on who should be asked to form a government. It remains to be seen whether or not these examples will be regarded in future as having established a constitutional convention."

    So the Prime Minister has a special responsibility but not a sole responsibility. Others can and should be contacting the Palace to give their views in times of uncertainty. So presumably they are.
    You'll have to trust me that the Queen is not about to take any kind of an active part in the political process.
    Agreed. It is incredibly dangerous for the Monarch to be sucked in to this quagmire.
    This is incorrect.

    The Sovereign, through the Crown in Parliament and prerogative powers, takes a huge part in the constitutional political process. The seismic difference is that it is not party political.
    Sozza Jack no one respects your finger on the pulse of the monarchy (since inception?) more than me. But the palace is going to do nothing active. It will at all times be advised by and follow the instructions of/agree to the politicians.
    Doesn't it depend what he actually said to her?
    Indeed, and with what intent.

    I'm also having great difficulty with the notion that the Palace and HM are passive instruments of the pols - quite apart from what happened in 2014 and has been published in the last two Private Eyes.

    Firstly, there must surely be limits as to what she will agree to - in which case there is an element of active decision involved, and HM is not after all a passive agent.

    And secondly despite that, if the Queen only does what Mr Johnson tells her to do, what's the point of her as a head of state? Handing out the medals and KCMGs is not a sufficient answer.
    Gammon General?
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749

    egg said:

    Scott_P said:
    They think it good to sound Trumpesque?

    Bit of a silly comment by Gove.

    Populism will take care of itself now, it doesn't need forced references.
    Maybe the culture of one electorate likes that bit of “I’m a winner, baby” cock, it grates in the culture of another country and proves counterproductive ?
  • Byronic said:

    No one is discussing the other possible impossible. A Tory-BXP alliance, to deliver Brexit.

    If it could be engineered, it would mean the Leave side would romp home to an enormous victory. Also, Corbyn would be demolished. So it may be best for the country, too.

    What would Farage demand? What would Boris offer?



    I doubt Farage wants Brexit.

    Or at least wants Brexit a lot less than he wants to posture about it.
    Agreed, he is just another preening egotist that has managed to manipulate the gullible.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    I have heard a lot of jet lagged prime ministers hijacked, Mrs T famously by ITN into calling IRA terrorists. Difficult day for Boris.

    Maybe the hijack will be “did we get full disclosure from his doctor, this guy looks seriously ill”
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Can interviewers stop asking the same question .

    Until no deal is taken off the table then the opposition won’t vote for an election. Are these reporters thick or deaf .

  • Sandpit said:

    Schiphol have new scanning machines which mean you don’t need to remove your liquids from your bag.

    Sounds like a small thing but makes the whole process appreciably less irritating.

    Yes, they’re very good. Coming to Heathrow soon too.
    It sounds like a good idea, and now that NoDeal is illegal and airlines can keep flying, we might actually have a use for these new machines ;)
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited September 2019

    Byronic said:

    No one is discussing the other possible impossible. A Tory-BXP alliance, to deliver Brexit.

    If it could be engineered, it would mean the Leave side would romp home to an enormous victory. Also, Corbyn would be demolished. So it may be best for the country, too.

    What would Farage demand? What would Boris offer?



    I doubt Farage wants Brexit.

    Or at least wants Brexit a lot less than he wants to posture about it.
    On the other hand Farage is 55. Has drank and smoked all his life and may think that now is the time to finally secure his place in the history of the country by delivering Brexit (with Boris) while he's is still young enough and well enough to do it?

    We'll see...
  • isam said:

    CD13 said:

    The Dick Emery Show was awful. Even though it was very popular, it wasn't funny, relying on catchphrases and bad jokes. But it was popular for some reason.

    The Black and White Minstrels was massively popular. Not my cup of tea, but it broke many records for audience share. It was never overtaken by alternative comedy and remained popular right until it was taken off by the BBC.

    Trying to pretend it became unpopular is re-writing history. It was racist and that was the reason the BBC took it off alr.

    The final Dick Emery show:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-7HWGHxq4Q&list=PLR4ywKQXOmmaGHqz931csJJijAoPFYkMg&index=6

    and the final Black and White Minstrels:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJqqoWqD3jQ
    Blimey, both are absolutely painful. On par with The Mash Report
    Early Saturday TV of that era also included 'Are You Being Served' and 'The Generation Game'.
  • F1: Leclerc is 3 to win next year's title.

    I'm not advocating that (the time scale and low odds aren't worth it) but it's telling such a market exists.
  • Can one of our learned lawyers here explain the significance of the missing signed affidavit ? I understand this was supposed to inform the court why Parliament needed to be prorogued. But no one was prepared to sign it. In fact, rumour has it that Alexander Johnson and Rees-Mogg were told not to sign it.

    I'm not learned or a lawyer but I believe that anyone signing such an affidavit would have put themselves at risk of perjury charges if the government lost the case. Anyone who swore something transparently untrue (that the prorogation had nothing to do with Brexit) to the SC would have put themselves at personal risk.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited September 2019

    isam said:

    CD13 said:

    The Dick Emery Show was awful. Even though it was very popular, it wasn't funny, relying on catchphrases and bad jokes. But it was popular for some reason.

    The Black and White Minstrels was massively popular. Not my cup of tea, but it broke many records for audience share. It was never overtaken by alternative comedy and remained popular right until it was taken off by the BBC.

    Trying to pretend it became unpopular is re-writing history. It was racist and that was the reason the BBC took it off alr.

    The final Dick Emery show:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-7HWGHxq4Q&list=PLR4ywKQXOmmaGHqz931csJJijAoPFYkMg&index=6

    and the final Black and White Minstrels:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJqqoWqD3jQ
    Blimey, both are absolutely painful. On par with The Mash Report
    Early Saturday TV of that era also included 'Are You Being Served' and 'The Generation Game'.
    And on ITV, "Love thy neighbour".

    Looking back at what was acceptable then shows how much the country has changed socially and for the better.

    [Edit: and the bl**dy awful Alf Garnet show, whatever it was called]
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    Charles said:

    eek said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:


    For the country the problem is theres no grouping with sufficient support to run the country and it looks like no election will be permitted to try to change that for several months. Again, Boris going doesnt change thst much.

    If the government resigns the only acceptable replacement would be one whose only purpose would be to extend and then call a GE.

    I honestly cannot see another move for Johnson unless the EU for some reason decide to cave in, and by his own logic it wont because parliament has taken no deal off the table.

    He cannot stop the Commons doing whatever it wants anymore, he cannot take action other than resignation. But that's such a nuclear option.

    Seriously, what can he try next? He and the Tories will be petrified of that BXP rating, even attacking the judges is not getting the share down, what more can he do?
    Why would attacking our legal system do anything to reduce the BXP vote share - if anything Nigel is now the saner Brexiter option.
    And this really is the problem with what the Commons has done

    They can not negotiate a Treaty themselves, but refused the Executive’s proposal. They are refusing to replace the government and won’t call an election.

    We are in stasis because of parliament overreaching
    This is what I have been saying for days. It is all very well and probably desirable for opposition parties and MPs to describe the current government as failing and in chaos, but normally this would lead to VONC and change of government. Is it any wonder that in times such as these where there is a clash between old dividing lines of left and right with new lines of leave and remain that constitutional norms, such as a government well short of a majority not being able to govern and there being an election, have been stretched to breaking point? Is it a surprise that against this and a speaker who rather than upholding conventions wants to rewrite them, that the government ends up pushing boundaries too? For all the furore of yesterday I see the fault of the current deadlock falling on all sides. No-one seems willing to come forward to lead from the centre and compromise. When Labour talked to May the only options seemingly put forward were ones that would tactically break the Tories in two, and then allow a Corbyn government? How could a self respecting Tory prime minister allow that? The WA for all its faults is the best middle way - barely acceptable to both sides, but each side seems to be moving away from that.
  • Byronic said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    Curious statistics in this Guardian article.

    52% of Britons take 100% of international flights. 48% take no flights at all.

    *innocent face*

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/25/1-of-english-residents-take-one-fifth-of-overseas-flights-survey-shows?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    It's a shame they don't say how many flights it takes to put you into the top 1%/10%/20%/etc

    I'm sure seanT, late of this parish, would have delighted in telling us that he was in the top 0.1%, or something. He was a travel writer, you know.
    Yes I remember him. Poor thing confused being a good writer (which he undoubtedly was) with having any kind of a discerning or superior palate.
    I once saw a copy of The Ice Twins at a petrol station near East Midlands Airport. I moved it to behind all the other shite books to impede its sale.
    "The whole book was heavily over punctuated, with commas here, there and everywhere. Give this one a wide berth. You're missing nothing."

    (Amazon Review)
    lol. I may not have SeanT's wit, charm and effortless virility, but I can see one thing: you guys are eerily obsessed with him. You display a kind of badly-disguised, morally contorted hero-worship.
    I always found his views pretty unbearable, but at least he has had the honesty to realise that the whole Brexit adventure has been damaging and pointless.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:


    For the country the problem is theres no grouping with sufficient support to run the country and it looks like no election will be permitted to try to change that for several months. Again, Boris going doesnt change thst much.

    If the government resigns the only acceptable replacement would be one whose only purpose would be to extend and then call a GE.

    I honestly cannot see another move for Johnson unless the EU for some reason decide to cave in, and by his own logic it wont because parliament has taken no deal off the table.

    He cannot stop the Commons doing whatever it wants anymore, he cannot take action other than resignation. But that's such a nuclear option.

    Seriously, what can he try next? He and the Tories will be petrified of that BXP rating, even attacking the judges is not getting the share down, what more can he do?
    He could revoke Article 50 but I wouldn’t put too much money on that.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    In these, the dying days of Boris's premiership, what do you think his legacy will be?
    I still don't think he'll be viewed as the worst PM. Perhaps the one with the worst intentions, but stopped by our Great British constitution. May will still be the clusterfuck of ages.
  • Byronic said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    Curious statistics in this Guardian article.

    52% of Britons take 100% of international flights. 48% take no flights at all.

    *innocent face*

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/25/1-of-english-residents-take-one-fifth-of-overseas-flights-survey-shows?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    It's a shame they don't say how many flights it takes to put you into the top 1%/10%/20%/etc

    I'm sure seanT, late of this parish, would have delighted in telling us that he was in the top 0.1%, or something. He was a travel writer, you know.
    Yes I remember him. Poor thing confused being a good writer (which he undoubtedly was) with having any kind of a discerning or superior palate.
    I once saw a copy of The Ice Twins at a petrol station near East Midlands Airport. I moved it to behind all the other shite books to impede its sale.
    "The whole book was heavily over punctuated, with commas here, there and everywhere. Give this one a wide berth. You're missing nothing."

    (Amazon Review)
    lol. I may not have SeanT's wit, charm and effortless virility, but I can see one thing: you guys are eerily obsessed with him. You display a kind of badly-disguised, morally contorted hero-worship.
    I freely admit he makes me laugh from time to time. I even voted for him back in the pb awards 2007 I think.
    No need to feel ashamed. There are people on here who voted for Plato, but they tend to keep quiet about it.
    It was Plato vs Antifrank. A viscious comment by tim got Plato over the line. RIP.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    CD13 said:

    The Dick Emery Show was awful. Even though it was very popular, it wasn't funny, relying on catchphrases and bad jokes. But it was popular for some reason.

    The Black and White Minstrels was massively popular. Not my cup of tea, but it broke many records for audience share. It was never overtaken by alternative comedy and remained popular right until it was taken off by the BBC.

    Trying to pretend it became unpopular is re-writing history. It was racist and that was the reason the BBC took it off alr.

    The final Dick Emery show:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-7HWGHxq4Q&list=PLR4ywKQXOmmaGHqz931csJJijAoPFYkMg&index=6

    and the final Black and White Minstrels:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJqqoWqD3jQ
    Blimey, both are absolutely painful. On par with The Mash Report
    Early Saturday TV of that era also included 'Are You Being Served' and 'The Generation Game'.
    I remember those two. A bit near the mark was ‘Are you being served’

    https://youtu.be/d-i523Gie9Q
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,511
    It’s now impossible to have a general election in October. Hat tip @Casino_Royale . I hope the bookies will pay out for those that bet against it.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Byronic said:

    No one is discussing the other possible impossible. A Tory-BXP alliance, to deliver Brexit.

    If it could be engineered, it would mean the Leave side would romp home to an enormous victory. Also, Corbyn would be demolished. So it may be best for the country, too.

    What would Farage demand? What would Boris offer?



    I doubt Farage wants Brexit.

    Or at least wants Brexit a lot less than he wants to posture about it.
    On the other hand Farage is 55. Has drank and smoked all his life and may think that now is the time to finally secure his place in the history of the country by delivering Brexit (with Boris) while he's is still young enough and well enough to do it?

    We'll see...
    In 2017, when everyone assumed Brexit would be delivered, Farage faded from the scene. This year, as it became clear that the whole project was in trouble, he stormed back in. In the unlikely event that we actually leave the EU on 31 October he will fade away again. I think he would much prefer to stay in the limelight, and so he would prefer continued delays (AKA betrayals) of Brexit.
  • Byronic said:

    No one is discussing the other possible impossible. A Tory-BXP alliance, to deliver Brexit.

    If it could be engineered, it would mean the Leave side would romp home to an enormous victory. Also, Corbyn would be demolished. So it may be best for the country, too.

    What would Farage demand? What would Boris offer?

    It is not impossible, but I think that serious talks on a pact (or merger?) would commence only if there were to be another inconclusive GE in which the BXP end up with zero seats after gaining a share of votes into double figures and the Conservatives fall back on their 2017 seat tally. We are too close to a GE now and both parties have candidates in place.

    And if Johnson (or Raab etc) were serious about a pact, to silence internal critics in the parliamentary party, he would be well advised to seek the endorsement of his party members via a special conference or ballot before proceeding.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    CD13 said:

    The Dick Emery Show was awful. Even though it was very popular, it wasn't funny, relying on catchphrases and bad jokes. But it was popular for some reason.

    The Black and White Minstrels was massively popular. Not my cup of tea, but it broke many records for audience share. It was never overtaken by alternative comedy and remained popular right until it was taken off by the BBC.

    Trying to pretend it became unpopular is re-writing history. It was racist and that was the reason the BBC took it off alr.

    The final Dick Emery show:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-7HWGHxq4Q&list=PLR4ywKQXOmmaGHqz931csJJijAoPFYkMg&index=6

    and the final Black and White Minstrels:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJqqoWqD3jQ
    Blimey, both are absolutely painful. On par with The Mash Report
    Early Saturday TV of that era also included 'Are You Being Served' and 'The Generation Game'.
    And on ITV, "Love thy neighbour".

    Looking back at what was acceptable then shows how much the country has changed socially and for the better.

    [Edit: and the bl**dy awful Alf Garnet show, whatever it was called]
    How lucky you are never to have suffered ‘Citizen Khan’ and know that we haven’t
  • isam said:

    CD13 said:

    The Dick Emery Show was awful. Even though it was very popular, it wasn't funny, relying on catchphrases and bad jokes. But it was popular for some reason.

    The Black and White Minstrels was massively popular. Not my cup of tea, but it broke many records for audience share. It was never overtaken by alternative comedy and remained popular right until it was taken off by the BBC.

    Trying to pretend it became unpopular is re-writing history. It was racist and that was the reason the BBC took it off alr.

    The final Dick Emery show:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-7HWGHxq4Q&list=PLR4ywKQXOmmaGHqz931csJJijAoPFYkMg&index=6

    and the final Black and White Minstrels:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJqqoWqD3jQ
    Blimey, both are absolutely painful. On par with The Mash Report
    Early Saturday TV of that era also included 'Are You Being Served' and 'The Generation Game'.
    And on ITV, "Love thy neighbour".

    Looking back at what was acceptable then shows how much the country has changed socially and for the better.

    [Edit: and the bl**dy awful Alf Garnet show, whatever it was called]
    Till Death Do Us Part.

    Warren Mitchell and Johnny Speight were very proud of the show until they realised people were treating Garnett as some kind of hero.

    West Ham fans have been blighted by the association ever since.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843

    Byronic said:



    As an international male model, I must take 50 flights a year minimum. I’m not delighted by the idea of a “progressive flight tax” - where you pay more and more for each ticket, though you get one cheap, untaxed flight a year.

    It’s a terrible, communistic, North Korean device. 99% of people would have the travel equivalent of a Trabant. One return flight a year. That’s your lot. The super rich 1%, who can afford the most stringent taxes, would have endless flights, the equivalent of a BMW.

    It’s such a bad idea that, in this present age of madness, it will probably be tried.

    It sounds a great idea, avoiding penalising families who want to take a single break but escalating so that even businesses shift faster into teleconferencing etc. But I missed it altogether - who's suggested that?
    One flight seems a bit low, 2 or 3 better. What about people that live abroad for example, do they basically have to choose between a holiday and seeing their family back home? People have other reasons to travel besides holidays, such as getting back for funerals etc. But the basic premise seems a good one.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    Leaver fuzzy wuzzies and the Law.

    They don't like it up em, do they?
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329

    tlg86 said:

    Today is the twelfth anniversary of this magnificent and prescient article.

    We cannot be killed.

    ‘Shortly there will be an election, in which Labour will increase its majority’.

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase

    Not much has happened since then, has it?
    We still have a disastrous mandateless/unelected Prime Minister.
    I’m sure the irony is lost on most people that those yesterday cheering conventions and procedures in Parliament, are the same ones who call Boris unelected and mandateless despite being elected by his own party and offering himself up for a general election.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698

    Byronic said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Byronic said:

    Curious statistics in this Guardian article.

    52% of Britons take 100% of international flights. 48% take no flights at all.

    *innocent face*

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/25/1-of-english-residents-take-one-fifth-of-overseas-flights-survey-shows?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    It's a shame they don't say how many flights it takes to put you into the top 1%/10%/20%/etc

    I'm sure seanT, late of this parish, would have delighted in telling us that he was in the top 0.1%, or something. He was a travel writer, you know.
    Yes I remember him. Poor thing confused being a good writer (which he undoubtedly was) with having any kind of a discerning or superior palate.
    I once saw a copy of The Ice Twins at a petrol station near East Midlands Airport. I moved it to behind all the other shite books to impede its sale.
    "The whole book was heavily over punctuated, with commas here, there and everywhere. Give this one a wide berth. You're missing nothing."

    (Amazon Review)
    lol. I may not have SeanT's wit, charm and effortless virility, but I can see one thing: you guys are eerily obsessed with him. You display a kind of badly-disguised, morally contorted hero-worship.
    I always found his views pretty unbearable, but at least he has had the honesty to realise that the whole Brexit adventure has been damaging and pointless.
    ... when he was sober.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    Scott_P said:

    This would be entertaining...

    ttps://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1176779400500645889

    This is getting silly - they’d find him in contempt yet continue to have confidence in him..?
  • Noo said:

    In these, the dying days of Boris's premiership, what do you think his legacy will be?
    I still don't think he'll be viewed as the worst PM. Perhaps the one with the worst intentions, but stopped by our Great British constitution. May will still be the clusterfuck of ages.

    Your predictions about Boris may be proved true but as it stands we will be writing the epitaph of Labour come the GE.

    For all the claims that Boris is trapped the truth is that he has a very clear route laid out for him. Yes, it might be considered the nuclear option but if ever there was a situation that warranted pressing the button then this it.

    Government resigns.

    Game is up for Labour.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237

    And on ITV, "Love thy neighbour".

    Looking back at what was acceptable then shows how much the country has changed socially and for the better.

    Yes.

    The much maligned 'Political Correctness' movement - although it has on occasions 'gorn mad' - on balance has been one of the most powerful forces for good in our society of the last 50 years.

    It's up there with ... well it's up there.
  • Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:

    This would be entertaining...

    ttps://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1176779400500645889

    This is getting silly - they’d find him in contempt yet continue to have confidence in him..?
    Parliament has never expressed confidence in him.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Jack W - The Queen always acts on the advice of her ministers. She can't be above party politics - she sides with the governing party. Apparently she has no choice but to do so.

    Incorrect.

    The monarch invariably acts on the advice of ministers. However the sovereign retains extensive reserve and personal prerogative powers. Further when ministers advise the Queen it is their duty to do so outwith party political concerns.

  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    nico67 said:

    Can interviewers stop asking the same question .

    Until no deal is taken off the table then the opposition won’t vote for an election. Are these reporters thick or deaf .

    Wasn’t no deal taken off the table by the Benn bill, and the EU last week agreeing that if we ask for an extension they will grant it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152
    philiph said:

    HYUFD said:

    Roger said:

    If Laura K thinks Johnson is n trouble with his own side HYUFD will need some pretty powerful polls before I'd bet on him surviving

    Boris is not in trouble and if he goes Dominic Raab is certain to replace him on a pact with the Brexit Party ticket for ultra hard Brexit
    No.
    Mr J Hunt MP will have most Tory support, the MPs would select him and hope to regain 18 or 20 missing members of Parliament.
    They would not as 67% of Tory members and a majority of Tory voters would defect to the Brexit Party if Hunt became PM to extend and Labour would vote him down anyway
  • Noo said:

    In these, the dying days of Boris's premiership, what do you think his legacy will be?
    I still don't think he'll be viewed as the worst PM. Perhaps the one with the worst intentions, but stopped by our Great British constitution. May will still be the clusterfuck of ages.

    LOL "dying days" that's funny.

    Boris is more likely to be still PM in five years, than gone within 5 days.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698

    Scott_P said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris will go into opposition rather than stay PM and agree to extend

    Such a winner...
    This is one of those situations where you need to lose to win.

    You can tell the penny is starting to drop on here about where this is heading.

    The government resigning is checkmate.

    Er... have you ever played chess?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    There is no majority in Parliament for anything at the moment anyway beyond extension of Article 50 so who cares

    Customs Union and Confirmatory Referendum both came very close in the indicative votes. Put them together in a package and they'll probably pass.
    Both failed to pass the Commons only the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop passed the Commons and that is what Boris is still aiming for
    They failed but only barely, and they weren't tested as a package.

    So the LDs mostly voted down CU, and the moderate (many now ex-) Cons voted down Referendum.

    I'm sure the LDs don't have anything non-tactical against adding CU to the stew, and I expect most of the ex-Cons would suck up the referendum to get the thing done now Boris has burned their bridges.
    The LDs now back remain only and Tory rebels back Brexit with a Deal not EUref2
  • It’s now impossible to have a general election in October. Hat tip @Casino_Royale . I hope the bookies will pay out for those that bet against it.

    The Quickie Election Act 2019 could still take care of it.
  • kinabalu said:

    And on ITV, "Love thy neighbour".

    Looking back at what was acceptable then shows how much the country has changed socially and for the better.

    Yes.

    The much maligned 'Political Correctness' movement - although it has on occasions 'gorn mad' - on balance has been one of the most powerful forces for good in our society of the last 50 years.

    It's up there with ... well it's up there.
    I often think that the core of "Political Correctness" is a combination of good manners and "treat others as you wish to be treated yourself". Other people may tack all sorts of extras on it but, to me, that is the core of it.

    I think it used to be known as "Be nice to people" ;)
  • Scott_P said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris will go into opposition rather than stay PM and agree to extend

    Such a winner...
    This is one of those situations where you need to lose to win.

    You can tell the penny is starting to drop on here about where this is heading.

    The government resigning is checkmate.

    Er... have you ever played chess?
    If you can sacrifice a pawn to take a queen its a good move.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:

    This would be entertaining...

    ttps://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1176779400500645889

    This is getting silly - they’d find him in contempt yet continue to have confidence in him..?
    He’s free to resign.


  • Er... have you ever played chess?

    If the government resigns what do Labour do?
  • I backed a 2021 election on Betfair last night at 75. You can still back it at 70.
  • Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:

    This would be entertaining...

    ttps://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1176779400500645889

    This is getting silly - they’d find him in contempt yet continue to have confidence in him..?
    It got silly when the Tories chose to elect a lazy incompetent bluffer as PM.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Scott_P said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris will go into opposition rather than stay PM and agree to extend

    Such a winner...
    This is one of those situations where you need to lose to win.

    You can tell the penny is starting to drop on here about where this is heading.

    The government resigning is checkmate.

    Er... have you ever played chess?
    If you can sacrifice a pawn to take a queen its a good move.
    Boris should leave the Queen alone.
  • It’s nice to see the hardline Leavers reconciling themselves to opposition. They will need to get very used to the experience.
  • Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:

    This would be entertaining...

    ttps://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1176779400500645889

    This is getting silly - they’d find him in contempt yet continue to have confidence in him..?
    Parliament has never expressed confidence in him.
    They have by virtue of not No Confidencing him.

    In the absence of removing confidence, they have confidence.
  • If you get suspended from the Commons for more than ten sitting days then it triggers a recall petition.

    Are we going to be set for the mother of all by elections?

  • He’s free to resign.

    The government will resign not just Johnson.


  • Er... have you ever played chess?

    If the government resigns what do Labour do?
    Form a Labour government?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:

    This would be entertaining...

    ttps://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1176779400500645889

    This is getting silly - they’d find him in contempt yet continue to have confidence in him..?
    Parliament has never expressed confidence in him.
    They have by virtue of not No Confidencing him.

    In the absence of removing confidence, they have confidence.
    What you talking about? Boris lost his supposed “vote of confidence” remember?
  • I find all those 70s comedies very funny.
    Never saw Dick Emery, but most of the rest.
    Frankly, Mrs Slocombe’s pussy is a joke I will never tire of.

    Not sure what that makes me, but I can’t be arsed getting righteous over what a previous generation found entertaining - indeed, I found Little Britain cruel and demeaning, and don’t get me started on the sadism of Big Brother et al.
  • Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:

    This would be entertaining...

    ttps://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1176779400500645889

    This is getting silly - they’d find him in contempt yet continue to have confidence in him..?
    Parliament has never expressed confidence in him.
    They have by virtue of not No Confidencing him.

    In the absence of removing confidence, they have confidence.
    Absolutely not. Only one man has had the opportunity to put a motion of no confidence. You can draw no inferences about the view of the Commons as a whole from his decision not to do so yet. In the meantime, Boris Johnson has lost every single vote, including the one that he said he was treating as a vote of confidence.

    He’s a placeholder Prime Minister, to be replaced at the convenience of others.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Hmm. Not a great look.

    https://twitter.com/69mib/status/1176739867704922119

    I don't doubt that Ms Hale is eminent and clever, and studiously impartial.

    But of necessity this judgement has been made by a Remainer elite, because they ARE the elite. It won't go down well.
  • nico67 said:

    Can interviewers stop asking the same question .

    Until no deal is taken off the table then the opposition won’t vote for an election. Are these reporters thick or deaf .

    Thick
  • Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:

    This would be entertaining...

    ttps://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1176779400500645889

    This is getting silly - they’d find him in contempt yet continue to have confidence in him..?
    Parliament has never expressed confidence in him.
    They have by virtue of not No Confidencing him.

    In the absence of removing confidence, they have confidence.
    What you talking about? Boris lost his supposed “vote of confidence” remember?
    No he lost a vote he treated as a confidence vote, he didn't lose a confidence vote. Technical difference.
  • If you get suspended from the Commons for more than ten sitting days then it triggers a recall petition.

    Are we going to be set for the mother of all by elections?

    What is the bar for suspending from the Commons? Is a super majority needed?

    Otherwise obviously open for manipulation and abuse by cynical, radical leaders to extend their majorities. Fortunately we have Johnson and Corbyn......
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468


    He’s free to resign.

    The government will resign not just Johnson.
    Yes. I know that.
  • Scott_P said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris will go into opposition rather than stay PM and agree to extend

    Such a winner...
    This is one of those situations where you need to lose to win.

    You can tell the penny is starting to drop on here about where this is heading.

    The government resigning is checkmate.

    Er... have you ever played chess?
    The mot juste is Zugzwang.
  • It’s nice to see the hardline Leavers reconciling themselves to opposition. They will need to get very used to the experience.

    Ooooh...I feel a bet coming on Alistair.

    By leavers I assume you mean Tories being used to opposition.

    'Very used to the experience' indicates a huge degree of confidence on your part that the Conservatives will not get a majority.

    What are we talking, 20-1 against a Tory majority? I won't be greedy, i'll take 10-1 which must be buying money for you.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,769
    edited September 2019
    HYUFD said:
    What does "respected" mean? Was it explicit in the question? If not then it could be a mix of interpretations - respected is quite a vague term. Also a leading question, saying now states that you disrespect the result and it's easier to say you respect than disrespect.

    I'd probably agree with that if asked, but I'd be willing to overturn the result in another referendum - i.e. I'd respect the result of a subsequent referendum more (being more recent and with a better understanding of the facts and options).
This discussion has been closed.