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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Mayor of London Siobhan Benita? Don’t rule it out

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  • Truly is Piss Funny. The owner of a private business which is not affiliated with the Labour Party gets to dictate the removal of the elected constitutional deputy leader.

    I'm already consoling my remaining moderate friends in the party. "Fellow rats, the ship is sinking"

    If Watson is removed, do you think there will be any repercussions? Or will Waton’s fraction go meekly into the night?
    There will be an exodus. Of Labour MPs no longer Labour MPs. Remember how the sacking of Hilary Benn prompted the "chicken coup"? Think what an extra-party coup will prompt?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Momentum are both a scurge and help to Labour .

    They certainly are willing to go the extra mile with their ground game but they have caused a lot of internal divisions in the party .
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,621
    kle4 said:

    I think historically you get a lot of purging action ahead of a leadership change, is Corbyn planning on retiring???

    I know not everyone likes a 'wouldn't it be hilarious' hypothetical, but just imagine if Corbyn actually won a GE, then stood down immediately saying his only job was delivering socialism to the country, and he had delivered an election win to do so, but that his critics were right he was not the man to be PM, and his good friend John McDonnell would be taking over? So selfless.
    In such a situation we would have the amusing sight of the Tory opposition screaming blue murder and demanding McDonnell seek his own mandate via a GE.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,485
    Are the moderate MPs going to tweet how sad it all is or actually do something...?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,605
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    I think historically you get a lot of purging action ahead of a leadership change, is Corbyn planning on retiring???

    https://youtu.be/6xVip745osc
    Great film.
    With apologies to @Sunil_Prasannan:

    Stalin would be loving this.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Tom Watson I don’t think will cause an implosion in the party .

    In all honesty he’s not that well liked , it’s more a gift to the right wing press and the Lib Dems who will try and frame this as Corbyn removing out spoken Remainers from the shadow cabinet .
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,621
    edited September 2019
    Actually, if Corbyn were about to step down that could have a fascinating and unpredicable impact on the the prospects for a GE.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,476
    Byronic said:

    Good spot. She’s VALUE

    I remember her. I think she stood as an independent if not last time then the time before (apols if already posted - threader TLDR).

    I voted for her because she seemed bright and sensible and was the only candidate who had the balls to unconditionally back LHR3.

    I’ll vote for her again, with Sadiq as second choice.

    Maybe she’s a good bet too. Hmm.

  • Not so long ago, Remainers were weeping tears for Nicholas Soames, a broken blossom culled and tossed by the wayside by careless hands in the Tory party.

    Now Remainers are weeping tears for Tom Watson, a dainty butterfly resting on a sprig of myrtle, crushed to pieces by vindictive people in the Labour Party.

    Actually, both Watson and Soames are ugly and loathsome individuals. They are getting what they deserved.

    Let's hope they both join the LibDems (who are not fussy). They will both be right at home there.

    And with them, a fair chunk of their former parties’ voters who hung around “while it was a party that had room for x”.

    The short-sightedness of ERG/Momentum purists - in fact, party members in general who’ve allowed their parties to move to the extremes and away from the voters - will bite one or both on the arse before long. And I for one can’t wait.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,403
    Newsnight: civil war erupts in Labour.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433
    edited September 2019
    Heads up: while political types all talk about Labour and Tom Watson, tomorrow’s headlines are going to be all Thomas Cook.

    They’re almost certainly bankrupt / in administration at midnight tonight, CAA (Civil aviation authority) are mobilising planes from all over the world to get over 100,000 people home, nearly double the scale of the Monarch repatriation from two years ago.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,189
    edited September 2019
    Andy_JS said:

    Newsnight: civil war erupts in Labour.

    Owen Jones saying senior Labour figures and Momentum do not believe Watson wants to win the next general election and Corbynistas who voted for him in 2015 would not vote for him now.

    A coup now clearly underway by Corbynistas to oust Tom Watson this weekend
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,605
    Andy_JS said:

    Newsnight: civil war erupts in Labour.

    But in fairness - who watches Newsnight?
  • I’ve been saying for three years that the far left has no interest whatsoever in defeating the Tories, it’s only focus is to control the Labour Party. This evening, I have been shown to be 100% correct. Am looking forward to Nick Palmer’s take on events. How will he explain them away?
  • ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Newsnight: civil war erupts in Labour.

    But in fairness - who watches Newsnight?
    But in fairness, who reads Owen Jones who isn't a cultist wazzock?
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,485
    McDonnell as LOTO with Long-Bailey Shadow Chancellor by October?
  • I’ve been saying for three years that the far left has no interest whatsoever in defeating the Tories, it’s only focus is to control the Labour Party. This evening, I have been shown to be 100% correct. Am looking forward to Nick Palmer’s take on events. How will he explain them away?

    By posting a picture of his LibDem membership card?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 9,061
    Sandpit said:

    Heads up: while political types all talk about Labour and Tom Watson, tomorrow’s headlines are going to be all Thomas Cook.

    They’re almost certainly bankrupt / in administration at midnight tonight, CAA (Civil aviation authority) are mobilising planes from all over the world to get over 100,000 people home, nearly double the scale of the Monarch repatriation from two years ago.

    Has Boris's magic money tree wilted or something? Surely throwing £200m at the problem should be a "no-brainer" for him?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,855
    Justin Trudeau, Antonio Brown, Prince Andrew - what a week for all three of them
    On topic - Yes I took as much 33-1 on Siobhan as I could earlier in the year. Which wasn't all that much. I'm also on Khan, Bailey the big lay
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 19,568
    edited September 2019
    Weirdo, peado obssessive Tom Watson's done for then? :D
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,254
    ydoethur said:

    The Lib Dems must be loving this challenge to Tom Watson.

    Another defector arriving soon?

    That would lead to me drifting away from them again.

    Would they really take on a useless thug like Watson and pass up the chance to get the endorsement of a man of wit, talent, sagacity, and the world's most awesome punner?
    You can throw all this flattery at me, but I'm still not joining the LibDems.....
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Scott_P said:
    Proves my point last week. Labour under Corbz have no desire to win the next election. They want to purge the hated Blairites, extract their revenge, then maybe win an election in 10 years, when the pendulum eventually swings their way.

    It’s unlikely it will work in the longterm. But they don’t care. They will have purged the Blairites, and taken over Labour. That’s satisfying enough
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,605
    Freggles said:

    McDonnell as LOTO with Long-Bailey Shadow Chancellor by October?

    Surely even Boris Johnson couldn't be *that* lucky?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Surely the Deputy Leadership is not an issue which has been discussed and debated by CLPs and Trade Union branches in the pre-Conference period. How would delegates be authorised to vote on such a subject when they have no mandate?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433
    edited September 2019
    Chris said:

    Sandpit said:

    Heads up: while political types all talk about Labour and Tom Watson, tomorrow’s headlines are going to be all Thomas Cook.

    They’re almost certainly bankrupt / in administration at midnight tonight, CAA (Civil aviation authority) are mobilising planes from all over the world to get over 100,000 people home, nearly double the scale of the Monarch repatriation from two years ago.

    Has Boris's magic money tree wilted or something? Surely throwing £200m at the problem should be a "no-brainer" for him?
    The £200m they’ve requested in government aid would buy them about a week, thanks to the financial shenanigans that have kept TC alive so far - and from a political viewpoint it would put the story in the middle of the Tory conference rather than the Labour conference.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,966
    Sandpit said:

    Heads up: while political types all talk about Labour and Tom Watson, tomorrow’s headlines are going to be all Thomas Cook.

    They’re almost certainly bankrupt / in administration at midnight tonight, CAA (Civil aviation authority) are mobilising planes from all over the world to get over 100,000 people home, nearly double the scale of the Monarch repatriation from two years ago.

    They're mobilising planes from all over the world to get over 100,000 people home?!!!???

    I know just the soundtrack....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA3_ejAsT2w
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,189
    Byronic said:

    Scott_P said:
    Proves my point last week. Labour under Corbz have no desire to win the next election. They want to purge the hated Blairites, extract their revenge, then maybe win an election in 10 years, when the pendulum eventually swings their way.

    It’s unlikely it will work in the longterm. But they don’t care. They will have purged the Blairites, and taken over Labour. That’s satisfying enough
    While in ten years time the LDs will have overtaken them as all the Blairites and diehard Remainers will have gone yellow and if Watson goes probably some of the Brownites too
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,694
    justin124 said:

    Surely the Deputy Leadership is not an issue which has been discussed and debated by CLPs and Trade Union branches in the pre-Conference period. How would delegates be authorised to vote on such a subject when they have no mandate?

    Rules and conventions don’t apply anymore. Haven’t you been following the news?
  • glwglw Posts: 8,872
    Somebody should call the knacker and put the Labour Party out of its misery.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,403
    "Online footage purporting to show hundreds of blindfolded and shackled prisoners in a mostly-Muslim region of China is believed to be authentic, a European security source has told Sky News."

    https://news.sky.com/story/chinas-detention-of-uighurs-video-of-blindfolded-and-shackled-prisoners-authentic-11815401
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,744
    Sandpit said:

    Heads up: while political types all talk about Labour and Tom Watson, tomorrow’s headlines are going to be all Thomas Cook.

    They’re almost certainly bankrupt / in administration at midnight tonight, CAA (Civil aviation authority) are mobilising planes from all over the world to get over 100,000 people home, nearly double the scale of the Monarch repatriation from two years ago.

    Sad for one of Leicester's most famous sons.

    Surely the planes are already booked, just need to fly out empty.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,403
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Newsnight: civil war erupts in Labour.

    But in fairness - who watches Newsnight?
    It isn't as good as it used to be but I still usually watch it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 37,052
    Whip-smart leader writer of the Observer destroying Our Lad Owen Jones on Newsnight.

    "What Labour can't do is go into a GE neutral on brexit. There is no excuse for a leader of the opposition to go into a GE without being clear on what Labour stands for."

    Abso-bloody-lutely.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    Surely the Deputy Leadership is not an issue which has been discussed and debated by CLPs and Trade Union branches in the pre-Conference period. How would delegates be authorised to vote on such a subject when they have no mandate?

    Rules and conventions don’t apply anymore. Haven’t you been following the news?
    If rules are not adhered to, there will be scope for legal challenge.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,966
    Freggles said:

    Are the moderate MPs going to tweet how sad it all is or actually do something...?

    They will encounter the situation, analyse the implications, dispassionately construct a strategy to overcome it, then implement it without fear or digression...

    ...nahh, just funning you. They will tweet about how sad it is... :)
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Heads up: while political types all talk about Labour and Tom Watson, tomorrow’s headlines are going to be all Thomas Cook.

    They’re almost certainly bankrupt / in administration at midnight tonight, CAA (Civil aviation authority) are mobilising planes from all over the world to get over 100,000 people home, nearly double the scale of the Monarch repatriation from two years ago.

    Sad for one of Leicester's most famous sons.

    Surely the planes are already booked, just need to fly out empty.

    And someone to pay for some fuel
  • MJWMJW Posts: 779

    I’ve been saying for three years that the far left has no interest whatsoever in defeating the Tories, it’s only focus is to control the Labour Party. This evening, I have been shown to be 100% correct. Am looking forward to Nick Palmer’s take on events. How will he explain them away?

    No doubt he'll find a way. One of the saddest developments of the Corbyn era has been the realisation that large parts of Labour just do not have a moral and intellectual firewall against the far left. I was a member, and it's been horrifying to see people whose views I probably share on most things simply refuse to see what's been staring everyone in the face since 2015.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    TOPPING said:

    Whip-smart leader writer of the Observer destroying Our Lad Owen Jones on Newsnight.

    "What Labour can't do is go into a GE neutral on brexit. There is no excuse for a leader of the opposition to go into a GE without being clear on what Labour stands for."

    Abso-bloody-lutely.

    No more so than at the February 1974 election.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,694
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Surely the Deputy Leadership is not an issue which has been discussed and debated by CLPs and Trade Union branches in the pre-Conference period. How would delegates be authorised to vote on such a subject when they have no mandate?

    Rules and conventions don’t apply anymore. Haven’t you been following the news?
    If rules are not adhered to, there will be scope for legal challenge.
    Just what the Labour Party needs!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,744
    justin124 said:

    Surely the Deputy Leadership is not an issue which has been discussed and debated by CLPs and Trade Union branches in the pre-Conference period. How would delegates be authorised to vote on such a subject when they have no mandate?

    It's going to be a helluva gunfight in Brighton. Should give another LD conference bounce, then on for the hatrick with the Tories at war in a week's time...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433
    edited September 2019
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Heads up: while political types all talk about Labour and Tom Watson, tomorrow’s headlines are going to be all Thomas Cook.

    They’re almost certainly bankrupt / in administration at midnight tonight, CAA (Civil aviation authority) are mobilising planes from all over the world to get over 100,000 people home, nearly double the scale of the Monarch repatriation from two years ago.

    Sad for one of Leicester's most famous sons.

    Surely the planes are already booked, just need to fly out empty.

    It doesn’t work like that, unfortunately. All TC aircraft will be grounded for regulatory reasons, the rescue will come from other aircraft chartered by the CAA and ATOL.

    Reports already of TC planes abroad stuck on the ground, as they can’t get refuellers to fill them up with fuel (that they’d almost certainly never get paid for).

    https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599819-thomas-cook-2-a-41.html
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,403
    "Labour can no longer shy away from confronting private schools

    Colin McCaig & Sol Gamsu"

    https://labourlist.org/2019/09/labour-can-no-longer-shy-away-from-confronting-private-schools/
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,403
    MJW said:

    I’ve been saying for three years that the far left has no interest whatsoever in defeating the Tories, it’s only focus is to control the Labour Party. This evening, I have been shown to be 100% correct. Am looking forward to Nick Palmer’s take on events. How will he explain them away?

    No doubt he'll find a way. One of the saddest developments of the Corbyn era has been the realisation that large parts of Labour just do not have a moral and intellectual firewall against the far left. I was a member, and it's been horrifying to see people whose views I probably share on most things simply refuse to see what's been staring everyone in the face since 2015.
    They were preparing to do something about Corbyn and McDonnell at 10pm on Thursday 8th June 2017. But then the exit poll was released.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,744
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Heads up: while political types all talk about Labour and Tom Watson, tomorrow’s headlines are going to be all Thomas Cook.

    They’re almost certainly bankrupt / in administration at midnight tonight, CAA (Civil aviation authority) are mobilising planes from all over the world to get over 100,000 people home, nearly double the scale of the Monarch repatriation from two years ago.

    Sad for one of Leicester's most famous sons.

    Surely the planes are already booked, just need to fly out empty.

    And someone to pay for some fuel
    Sure, presumably ABTA.

    The planes are already booked and timetabled though.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433
    edited September 2019
    Foxy said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Heads up: while political types all talk about Labour and Tom Watson, tomorrow’s headlines are going to be all Thomas Cook.

    They’re almost certainly bankrupt / in administration at midnight tonight, CAA (Civil aviation authority) are mobilising planes from all over the world to get over 100,000 people home, nearly double the scale of the Monarch repatriation from two years ago.

    Sad for one of Leicester's most famous sons.

    Surely the planes are already booked, just need to fly out empty.

    And someone to pay for some fuel
    Sure, presumably ABTA.

    The planes are already booked and timetabled though.
    Nope. If the company goes into administration, the planes have neither a ‘Certificate of Airworthiness’ nor insurance.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Foxy said:

    justin124 said:

    Surely the Deputy Leadership is not an issue which has been discussed and debated by CLPs and Trade Union branches in the pre-Conference period. How would delegates be authorised to vote on such a subject when they have no mandate?

    It's going to be a helluva gunfight in Brighton. Should give another LD conference bounce, then on for the hatrick with the Tories at war in a week's time...
    Foxy said:

    justin124 said:

    Surely the Deputy Leadership is not an issue which has been discussed and debated by CLPs and Trade Union branches in the pre-Conference period. How would delegates be authorised to vote on such a subject when they have no mandate?

    It's going to be a helluva gunfight in Brighton. Should give another LD conference bounce, then on for the hatrick with the Tories at war in a week's time...
    Tories at war ? The splitters have already split.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour can no longer shy away from confronting private schools

    Colin McCaig & Sol Gamsu"

    https://labourlist.org/2019/09/labour-can-no-longer-shy-away-from-confronting-private-schools/

    So if people want to do an educational method outside the mainstream, like Montessori, they shouldn't be allowed?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 37,052
    justin124 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Whip-smart leader writer of the Observer destroying Our Lad Owen Jones on Newsnight.

    "What Labour can't do is go into a GE neutral on brexit. There is no excuse for a leader of the opposition to go into a GE without being clear on what Labour stands for."

    Abso-bloody-lutely.

    No more so than at the February 1974 election.
    Yes it's showing up in the polling.
  • I see NEC have gone even madder than usual in trying to remove Watson, as soon as tomorrow.

    Could this be the moment for the split?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    I’ve been saying for three years that the far left has no interest whatsoever in defeating the Tories, it’s only focus is to control the Labour Party. This evening, I have been shown to be 100% correct. Am looking forward to Nick Palmer’s take on events. How will he explain them away?

    By posting a picture of his LibDem membership card?
    I think Nick shares at least some of the mindset of the leadership.

    I'm not sure he was that unhappy about the march ever leftwards
  • Floater said:

    I’ve been saying for three years that the far left has no interest whatsoever in defeating the Tories, it’s only focus is to control the Labour Party. This evening, I have been shown to be 100% correct. Am looking forward to Nick Palmer’s take on events. How will he explain them away?

    By posting a picture of his LibDem membership card?
    I think Nick shares at least some of the mindset of the leadership.

    I'm not sure he was that unhappy about the march ever leftwards
    Nick can turn the lights off then
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    nico67 said:

    Tom Watson I don’t think will cause an implosion in the party .

    In all honesty he’s not that well liked , it’s more a gift to the right wing press and the Lib Dems who will try and frame this as Corbyn removing out spoken Remainers from the shadow cabinet .

    Spin those party lines all you want mate - but we are not buying
  • I remember OGH biging up Benita back in 2012.

    The thing that particularly impressed him was that Benita was the only candidate who supported Heathrow expansion ?

    Does she still support Heathrow expansion ?

    I would have thought that wasn't quite the thing to do at present.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,485

    I see NEC have gone even madder than usual in trying to remove Watson, as soon as tomorrow.

    Could this be the moment for the split?

    CHANGE UK II: ELECTRIC BOOGALOO

  • The short-sightedness of ERG/Momentum purists - in fact, party members in general who’ve allowed their parties to move to the extremes and away from the voters - will bite one or both on the arse before long. And I for one can’t wait.

    I would (optimistically) estimate the number of Tory party members who resign because of Soames at zero...possibly 1 if there is a very close relative involved.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,694
    Endless entertainment courtesy of the Labour Party.

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1175166429626343424?s=21
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,112
    Another interesting scandal:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/20/the-men-who-plundered-europe-city-of-london-practices-on-trial-in-bonn
    in continental Europe what Le Monde has described as the “robbery of the century” has done almost as much to shape the view of Britain as Brexit itself, with Dutch media calling it “organised crime in pinstripe suits” and one of the original German whistleblowers saying he now welcomes Britain’s exit from the EU in the hope it could weaken the influence of London investment banking on European financial institutions.

    I haven’t seen a clear explanation of how the fraud is supposed to have worked - and is it true that the German tax authorities were taken for 40 billion ?

    @rcs1000 ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,744
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Heads up: while political types all talk about Labour and Tom Watson, tomorrow’s headlines are going to be all Thomas Cook.

    They’re almost certainly bankrupt / in administration at midnight tonight, CAA (Civil aviation authority) are mobilising planes from all over the world to get over 100,000 people home, nearly double the scale of the Monarch repatriation from two years ago.

    Sad for one of Leicester's most famous sons.

    Surely the planes are already booked, just need to fly out empty.

    And someone to pay for some fuel
    Sure, presumably ABTA.

    The planes are already booked and timetabled though.
    Nope. If the company goes into administration, the planes have neither a ‘Certificate of Airworthiness’ nor insurance.
    Bummer. At least Greta will be happy.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,855
    Looks like Corbyn is err

    Taking back control
  • Foxy said:


    It's going to be a helluva gunfight in Brighton. Should give another LD conference bounce, then on for the hatrick with the Tories at war in a week's time...

    I may well be wrong (often am) but I get a feeling the Tory conference will be relatively harmonious.

    The ERG must realise that Brexit is in last chance saloon and if they vote down whatever Boris brings back then not only with leaving the EU probably be gone for a generation, so will they from the party...permanently.

    We would already be hearing the ERG ranting about their red lines if they were going to die in a ditch over Brexit purity.
  • glwglw Posts: 8,872

    I see NEC have gone even madder than usual in trying to remove Watson, as soon as tomorrow.

    Could this be the moment for the split?

    It's genuinely just about the most ridiculous thing Labour could do right now. Boris and the Tories are in a right mess, a general elecition might be mere weeks away, and some people in Labour have decided now is a good time for a little civil war.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,744
    TGOHF said:

    Foxy said:

    justin124 said:

    Surely the Deputy Leadership is not an issue which has been discussed and debated by CLPs and Trade Union branches in the pre-Conference period. How would delegates be authorised to vote on such a subject when they have no mandate?

    It's going to be a helluva gunfight in Brighton. Should give another LD conference bounce, then on for the hatrick with the Tories at war in a week's time...
    Foxy said:

    justin124 said:

    Surely the Deputy Leadership is not an issue which has been discussed and debated by CLPs and Trade Union branches in the pre-Conference period. How would delegates be authorised to vote on such a subject when they have no mandate?

    It's going to be a helluva gunfight in Brighton. Should give another LD conference bounce, then on for the hatrick with the Tories at war in a week's time...
    Tories at war ? The splitters have already split.
    The One Nation group of MPs used to be about 100 strong, and aren't the expelled still members, albeit whiplash?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,855
    "Tom's entitled to his view"
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,497

    I see NEC have gone even madder than usual in trying to remove Watson, as soon as tomorrow.

    Could this be the moment for the split?

    They already had one, it just wasn't very large. I struggle to believe, at this critical time, facing BoJo the incredible, they would so so now. But they seem intent on testing that assumption hard.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,966
    glw said:

    I see NEC have gone even madder than usual in trying to remove Watson, as soon as tomorrow.

    Could this be the moment for the split?

    It's genuinely just about the most ridiculous thing Labour could do right now. Boris and the Tories are in a right mess, a general elecition might be mere weeks away, and some people in Labour have decided now is a good time for a little civil war.
    "Your opponents are in front of you on the opposite benches, your enemies are behind you on the same ones..." Diane Abbott (I doubt if she coined it, tho)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Heads up: while political types all talk about Labour and Tom Watson, tomorrow’s headlines are going to be all Thomas Cook.

    They’re almost certainly bankrupt / in administration at midnight tonight, CAA (Civil aviation authority) are mobilising planes from all over the world to get over 100,000 people home, nearly double the scale of the Monarch repatriation from two years ago.

    Sad for one of Leicester's most famous sons.

    Surely the planes are already booked, just need to fly out empty.

    And someone to pay for some fuel
    Sure, presumably ABTA.

    The planes are already booked and timetabled though.
    Nope. If the company goes into administration, the planes have neither a ‘Certificate of Airworthiness’ nor insurance.
    Bummer. At least Greta will be happy.
    Greta won’t be happy. The rescue planes will be flying out empty, using many tonnes of extra fuel in the process.

    Speaking of Greta, how did she get back to Europe, surely not on a plane.?
    Also, little comment about the three sailors who flew to NY to take her boat back across the Atlantic, nor the three flights for her original crew to get back to Europe either.

    She should have attended the conference on Skype, and berated everyone there for doing these things in person in nice places on expenses.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Labour should split - there just isn’t a safe space space for Joylon, Emily, Ed and Tom these days at conference.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,112
    Nigelb said:

    Another interesting scandal:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/20/the-men-who-plundered-europe-city-of-london-practices-on-trial-in-bonn
    in continental Europe what Le Monde has described as the “robbery of the century” has done almost as much to shape the view of Britain as Brexit itself, with Dutch media calling it “organised crime in pinstripe suits” and one of the original German whistleblowers saying he now welcomes Britain’s exit from the EU in the hope it could weaken the influence of London investment banking on European financial institutions.

    I haven’t seen a clear explanation of how the fraud is supposed to have worked - and is it true that the German tax authorities were taken for 40 billion ?

    @rcs1000 ?

    And is this part of what’s behind the rumoured problems with banking stability in general and Deutsche Bank in particular ?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,694
    TGOHF said:

    Labour should split - there just isn’t a safe space space for Joylon, Emily, Ed and Tom these days at conference.

    They would have done already if it wasn’t for FPTP.
  • glwglw Posts: 8,872
    viewcode said:

    glw said:

    I see NEC have gone even madder than usual in trying to remove Watson, as soon as tomorrow.

    Could this be the moment for the split?

    It's genuinely just about the most ridiculous thing Labour could do right now. Boris and the Tories are in a right mess, a general elecition might be mere weeks away, and some people in Labour have decided now is a good time for a little civil war.
    "Your opponents are in front of you on the opposite benches, your enemies are behind you on the same ones..." Diane Abbott (I doubt if she coined it, tho)
    But even if you did think that, surely it would be good politics to wait a few weeks for the general election to pass?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,189
    ConHome founder Tim Montgomerie is the Prime Minister's new Social Justice adviser

    https://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2019/09/good-luck-tim-montgomerie.html
  • I’ve been saying for three years that the far left has no interest whatsoever in defeating the Tories, it’s only focus is to control the Labour Party. This evening, I have been shown to be 100% correct. Am looking forward to Nick Palmer’s take on events. How will he explain them away?

    I held and hold the same view although it tooktme until this year to let my membership lapse. Labour will not survive this and it is turning itself into the UK equivalent of the parti communist Francaise. think that a number of current Labour MPs will defect to the Libs in the aftermath of the GE.
  • Foxy said:


    It's going to be a helluva gunfight in Brighton. Should give another LD conference bounce, then on for the hatrick with the Tories at war in a week's time...

    I may well be wrong (often am) but I get a feeling the Tory conference will be relatively harmonious.

    The ERG must realise that Brexit is in last chance saloon and if they vote down whatever Boris brings back then not only with leaving the EU probably be gone for a generation, so will they from the party...permanently.

    We would already be hearing the ERG ranting about their red lines if they were going to die in a ditch over Brexit purity.
    The Tory conference will be cancelled when the judges tell Johnson to get his sorry ass back to Westminster.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,744
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Heads up: while political types all talk about Labour and Tom Watson, tomorrow’s headlines are going to be all Thomas Cook.

    They’re almost certainly bankrupt / in administration at midnight tonight, CAA (Civil aviation authority) are mobilising planes from all over the world to get over 100,000 people home, nearly double the scale of the Monarch repatriation from two years ago.

    Sad for one of Leicester's most famous sons.

    Surely the planes are already booked, just need to fly out empty.

    And someone to pay for some fuel
    Sure, presumably ABTA.

    The planes are already booked and timetabled though.
    Nope. If the company goes into administration, the planes have neither a ‘Certificate of Airworthiness’ nor insurance.
    Bummer. At least Greta will be happy.
    Greta won’t be happy. The rescue planes will be flying out empty, using many tonnes of extra fuel in the process.

    Speaking of Greta, how did she get back to Europe, surely not on a plane.?
    Also, little comment about the three sailors who flew to NY to take her boat back across the Atlantic, nor the three flights for her original crew to get back to Europe either.

    She should have attended the conference on Skype, and berated everyone there for doing these things in person in nice places on expenses.
    Greta is in New York, not Europe. I think she is sailing on to South America next. She has had a pretty impressive year:

    https://twitter.com/nattyover/status/1175150366033420293?s=19
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,497
    These too together might well explain the timing. Tory 'moderate' MPs who have just sat and grumbled for years to show how they totally are not like Jeremy (while campaigning to make him PM) will surely undermine the party when Boris might be in even more freefall

    Foxy said:


    It's going to be a helluva gunfight in Brighton. Should give another LD conference bounce, then on for the hatrick with the Tories at war in a week's time...

    I may well be wrong (often am) but I get a feeling the Tory conference will be relatively harmonious.

    The ERG must realise that Brexit is in last chance saloon and if they vote down whatever Boris brings back then not only with leaving the EU probably be gone for a generation, so will they from the party...permanently.

    We would already be hearing the ERG ranting about their red lines if they were going to die in a ditch over Brexit purity.
    The Tory conference will be cancelled when the judges tell Johnson to get his sorry ass back to Westminster.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 36,744

    Foxy said:


    It's going to be a helluva gunfight in Brighton. Should give another LD conference bounce, then on for the hatrick with the Tories at war in a week's time...

    I may well be wrong (often am) but I get a feeling the Tory conference will be relatively harmonious.

    The ERG must realise that Brexit is in last chance saloon and if they vote down whatever Boris brings back then not only with leaving the EU probably be gone for a generation, so will they from the party...permanently.

    We would already be hearing the ERG ranting about their red lines if they were going to die in a ditch over Brexit purity.
    The Tory conference will be cancelled when the judges tell Johnson to get his sorry ass back to Westminster.
    Ooh, that would be fun :smiley:
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,694
    But they could block an election and install a centrist as PM.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,855
    Foxy said:


    Greta is in New York, not Europe. I think she is sailing on to South America next. She has had a pretty impressive year:

    https://twitter.com/nattyover/status/1175150366033420293?s=19

    You can think what you like but that first photo is going to be iconic in years to come.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 47,112

    Foxy said:


    It's going to be a helluva gunfight in Brighton. Should give another LD conference bounce, then on for the hatrick with the Tories at war in a week's time...

    I may well be wrong (often am) but I get a feeling the Tory conference will be relatively harmonious.

    The ERG must realise that Brexit is in last chance saloon and if they vote down whatever Boris brings back then not only with leaving the EU probably be gone for a generation, so will they from the party...permanently.

    We would already be hearing the ERG ranting about their red lines if they were going to die in a ditch over Brexit purity.
    The Tory conference will be cancelled when the judges tell Johnson to get his sorry ass back to Westminster.
    Given the composition of his cabinet, Johnson is spoiled for choice in the matter of which sorry arse to take back to Westminster....
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,025
    edited September 2019

    TGOHF said:

    Labour should split - there just isn’t a safe space space for Joylon, Emily, Ed and Tom these days at conference.

    They would have done already if it wasn’t for FPTP.
    I think if they defect en mass after the GE then Swinson will welcome them as MPs. That gets around the problem that the Libs have already selected candidates.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,903
    Nigelb said:

    Another interesting scandal:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/20/the-men-who-plundered-europe-city-of-london-practices-on-trial-in-bonn
    in continental Europe what Le Monde has described as the “robbery of the century” has done almost as much to shape the view of Britain as Brexit itself, with Dutch media calling it “organised crime in pinstripe suits” and one of the original German whistleblowers saying he now welcomes Britain’s exit from the EU in the hope it could weaken the influence of London investment banking on European financial institutions.

    I haven’t seen a clear explanation of how the fraud is supposed to have worked - and is it true that the German tax authorities were taken for 40 billion ?

    @rcs1000 ?

    It does not however appear to have very much to do with City of London & the Brexit reference is particularly gratuitous.

    The alleged mastermind (according to the article) is a German ex-tax official based in Switzerland. The bank mentioned in the article (HypoVereinsbank) appears to be based in Germany.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,903
    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:


    Greta is in New York, not Europe. I think she is sailing on to South America next. She has had a pretty impressive year:

    https://twitter.com/nattyover/status/1175150366033420293?s=19

    You can think what you like but that first photo is going to be iconic in years to come.
    Her career has been expertly handled.

    Next stop must be the Nobel Peace Prize.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    edited September 2019

    But they could block an election and install a centrist as PM.
    The Corbyn faction or those who stay in the official PLP could vote with the Tories to hold a GE. Whether they will muster 433 votes, I am not sure. With the SNP, they probably will. I think the LDs will join in. The Labour Moderates if they really split in the HoC will then be marooned. Too late to start a new Party. Even if they did, it will be 1983 all over again. Johnson wins with barely 30% of the votes.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,025
    edited September 2019
    kle4 said:

    These too together might well explain the timing. Tory 'moderate' MPs who have just sat and grumbled for years to show how they totally are not like Jeremy (while campaigning to make him PM) will surely undermine the party when Boris might be in even more freefall

    Foxy said:


    It's going to be a helluva gunfight in Brighton. Should give another LD conference bounce, then on for the hatrick with the Tories at war in a week's time...

    I may well be wrong (often am) but I get a feeling the Tory conference will be relatively harmonious.

    The ERG must realise that Brexit is in last chance saloon and if they vote down whatever Boris brings back then not only with leaving the EU probably be gone for a generation, so will they from the party...permanently.

    We would already be hearing the ERG ranting about their red lines if they were going to die in a ditch over Brexit purity.
    The Tory conference will be cancelled when the judges tell Johnson to get his sorry ass back to Westminster.
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    edited September 2019
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:


    It's going to be a helluva gunfight in Brighton. Should give another LD conference bounce, then on for the hatrick with the Tories at war in a week's time...

    I may well be wrong (often am) but I get a feeling the Tory conference will be relatively harmonious.

    The ERG must realise that Brexit is in last chance saloon and if they vote down whatever Boris brings back then not only with leaving the EU probably be gone for a generation, so will they from the party...permanently.

    We would already be hearing the ERG ranting about their red lines if they were going to die in a ditch over Brexit purity.
    The Tory conference will be cancelled when the judges tell Johnson to get his sorry ass back to Westminster.
    Ooh, that would be fun :smiley:
    Isn’t the conference recess already voted on? E.g. Prorogation ends but Parliament is in recess. I was sure that came up in one of the various sets of evidence.

    I recall one of the arguments being that prorogation stopped Parliament cancelling it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433
    A dozen Thomas Cook flights arriving tonight into Gatwick, Birmingham and Manchester have all been allocated to remote stands - looks like the end sadly. Hope no-one on here is affected.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,403
    Nigelb said:

    Another interesting scandal:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/20/the-men-who-plundered-europe-city-of-london-practices-on-trial-in-bonn
    in continental Europe what Le Monde has described as the “robbery of the century” has done almost as much to shape the view of Britain as Brexit itself, with Dutch media calling it “organised crime in pinstripe suits” and one of the original German whistleblowers saying he now welcomes Britain’s exit from the EU in the hope it could weaken the influence of London investment banking on European financial institutions.

    I haven’t seen a clear explanation of how the fraud is supposed to have worked - and is it true that the German tax authorities were taken for 40 billion ?

    @rcs1000 ?

    You could argue this is the sort of thing that led to Brexit.
  • Rugby in Japan is kind of like rowing in Britain, normal schools don't do it, it's kind of an elite university thing.

    Weirdly the really diverse sport in Japan is Sumo.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    I think those CLPs who have not selected their candidates will b estopped from selecting one. On grounds of an imminent GE, the power will be taken over by the NEC.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,694

    But they could block an election and install a centrist as PM.
    The Corbyn faction or those who stay in the official PLP could vote with the Tories to hold a GE. Whether they will muster 433 votes, I am not sure. With the SNP, they probably will. I think the LDs will join in. The Labour Moderates if they really split in the HoC will then be marooned. Too late to start a new Party. Even if they did, it will be 1983 all over again. Johnson wins with barely 30% of the votes.
    What can they do? Defect to the Lib Dems now?
This discussion has been closed.