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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Mayor of London Siobhan Benita? Don’t rule it out

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,916
    ydoethur said:

    There's nothing wrong with being bald, you know!

    No. Indeed baldness suits some people. Although of course some of the people it suits are not bald.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,605

    Does anyone think that Emily is on manoeuvres ?

    Well, Corbyn apparently does. And has done ever since she launched that barely veiled attack on him after the European Election results.
  • Omnium said:

    @AlastairMeeks
    If brexit does happen on 31oct (who knows what that will be) might you be for rejoining?

    Does anyone know what LD policy is post brexit?

    'Rejoin' would be a fantastically hard card to play. Interesting though.


    There’s been no announced policy. Layla Moran refused to answer when Brillo asked her the other day.

    I suspect EFTA (+CU?) as a prelude to eventual rejoining. The problem with immediate Rejoin is that Europe won’t have us if they have any sense.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited September 2019
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,621
    Charles Grant has reined right back on his optimism of 12 September I see...

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1175131849796083713?s=20
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,694

    Omnium said:

    @AlastairMeeks
    If brexit does happen on 31oct (who knows what that will be) might you be for rejoining?

    Does anyone know what LD policy is post brexit?

    'Rejoin' would be a fantastically hard card to play. Interesting though.


    There’s been no announced policy. Layla Moran refused to answer when Brillo asked her the other day.

    I suspect EFTA (+CU?) as a prelude to eventual rejoining. The problem with immediate Rejoin is that Europe won’t have us if they have any sense.
    That would be sensible IMO.

    EFTA/EEA is where we should have stayed all along.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 8,566

    Omnium said:

    @AlastairMeeks
    If brexit does happen on 31oct (who knows what that will be) might you be for rejoining?

    Does anyone know what LD policy is post brexit?

    'Rejoin' would be a fantastically hard card to play. Interesting though.


    There’s been no announced policy. Layla Moran refused to answer when Brillo asked her the other day.

    I suspect EFTA (+CU?) as a prelude to eventual rejoining. The problem with immediate Rejoin is that Europe won’t have us if they have any sense.
    Thanks El_Capitano.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 11,222
    Omnium said:

    @AlastairMeeks
    If brexit does happen on 31oct (who knows what that will be) might you be for rejoining?

    Does anyone know what LD policy is post brexit?

    'Rejoin' would be a fantastically hard card to play. Interesting though.

    I agree rejoining couldn't be immediate but could be stated as a long term objective. The problem is the EU will only have us back if they can be sure the next Government won't commit us to leave again. We can't keep going in and out like (I'll leave you to come up with your own analogy).

    I like the idea however of a renegotiation to provide for a closer economic and political relationship perhaps via EFTA (which is where I started back in the spring of 16) - perhaps the PD could be revisited to make it a relationship more akin to associate membership.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,966
    ....are they in a student pub?

    "So what's your subject?"
    "Classical Latin. You?"
    "Economics"
    "Oh"

    Pause

    Longer pause.

    "So...do you come here often?"
    "Fuck off, fat bloke"
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,621
    This is as bizarre as any story to have come out of Trumpland. What on earth could Zelensky possibly have on Biden?

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/20/trump-ukraine-biden-election-help-hillary-clinton-claims
  • This is as bizarre as any story to have come out of Trumpland. What on earth could Zelensky possibly have on Biden?

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/20/trump-ukraine-biden-election-help-hillary-clinton-claims

    Biden's son was employed by Ukrainian oligarchs.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,605

    This is as bizarre as any story to have come out of Trumpland. What on earth could Zelensky possibly have on Biden?

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/20/trump-ukraine-biden-election-help-hillary-clinton-claims

    Biden's son was employed by Ukrainian oligarchs.
    Bit of a stretch to call Ukraine 'a foreign power.' I mean, it can't even control a bunch of half-arsed ragged trouser rebels in Crimea and Donbass whom we are assured have no help from Russia at all, whatsoever, how could we even think that...
  • ydoethur said:

    This is as bizarre as any story to have come out of Trumpland. What on earth could Zelensky possibly have on Biden?

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/20/trump-ukraine-biden-election-help-hillary-clinton-claims

    Biden's son was employed by Ukrainian oligarchs.
    Bit of a stretch to call Ukraine 'a foreign power.' I mean, it can't even control a bunch of half-arsed ragged trouser rebels in Crimea and Donbass whom we are assured have no help from Russia at all, whatsoever, how could we even think that...
    What term do you suggest? A foreign shower?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,966

    This is as bizarre as any story to have come out of Trumpland. What on earth could Zelensky possibly have on Biden?

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/20/trump-ukraine-biden-election-help-hillary-clinton-claims

    Biden's son was employed by Ukrainian oligarchs.
    Trump's employed by the Russians!
  • viewcode said:

    This is as bizarre as any story to have come out of Trumpland. What on earth could Zelensky possibly have on Biden?

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/20/trump-ukraine-biden-election-help-hillary-clinton-claims

    Biden's son was employed by Ukrainian oligarchs.
    Trump's employed by the Russians!
    It's the strangest proxy war in history.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 8,566
    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    @AlastairMeeks
    If brexit does happen on 31oct (who knows what that will be) might you be for rejoining?

    Does anyone know what LD policy is post brexit?

    'Rejoin' would be a fantastically hard card to play. Interesting though.

    I agree rejoining couldn't be immediate but could be stated as a long term objective. The problem is the EU will only have us back if they can be sure the next Government won't commit us to leave again. We can't keep going in and out like (I'll leave you to come up with your own analogy).

    I like the idea however of a renegotiation to provide for a closer economic and political relationship perhaps via EFTA (which is where I started back in the spring of 16) - perhaps the PD could be revisited to make it a relationship more akin to associate membership.

    If we leave, and I think we will, then the EU will be going bananas to have us back. Obviously they'll not be explicitly doing so, but behind the scenes the LDs will have all the support they want.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    There's nothing wrong with being bald, you know!

    No. Indeed baldness suits some people. Although of course some of the people it suits are not bald.
    So you are both bald then.

    How sad.
  • felixfelix Posts: 14,495

    Does anyone think that Emily is on manoeuvres ?

    If so it's gonna be slow like a giant iceberg or oil tanker.
  • ydoethur said:

    Has there been a move on this site of Remainer/Liberal Tories to the Liberal Democrats? Genuine question.

    Well, I'm not a Tory although I did vote for them in 2010 and 2017. But I am a Remainer and I am drifting Liberal Democrat-ward.
    I think the answer to the question is "not yet". I think there are many Remain supporting Tories now homeless on pb.

    I will never become a LD but in my constituency (Richmond Park) I do not know how I would vote.
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Labour took net seats off the conservatives in 15 and 17 and will do so again at the next election.

    There is no Boris bounce, he’s unloved and distrusted. nor double digit Tory poll leads. What you are looking at is a mirage created by Corbyns suppressing labour voters likelihood to vote. A mirage that will vanish the moment an election gun fires.

    I’ll be more specific. It’s the moral ideology dominating Labours agenda that is suppressing their poll lead. For example to turn a government out of power all we should hear from the opposition is everyone to have food, a job, a home, not a union boss in every boardroom, everything nationalised, and Eton brought into the state sector and renamed Slough Highschool. But when a general election is called that agenda, that’s inward looking not outward looking, flips, and the likelihood of Labour voters to vote goes up, the likelihood of them squeezing other parties where needed (like their Peterborough win) goes up.

    You must understand the Labour manifesto at next GE will be pragmatic and competitive, not idealistic and playing into opponents hands.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 8,566
    felix said:

    Does anyone think that Emily is on manoeuvres ?

    If so it's gonna be slow like a giant iceberg or oil tanker.
    Harsh, I know she's a big girl, but harsh.
  • Scott_P said:
    They are completely insane. And ruthless and shameless with it.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 9,061
    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    There's nothing wrong with being bald, you know!

    No. Indeed baldness suits some people. Although of course some of the people it suits are not bald.
    It's even fashionable in some places. Well, Liverpool.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,621
    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    @AlastairMeeks
    If brexit does happen on 31oct (who knows what that will be) might you be for rejoining?

    Does anyone know what LD policy is post brexit?

    'Rejoin' would be a fantastically hard card to play. Interesting though.

    I agree rejoining couldn't be immediate but could be stated as a long term objective. The problem is the EU will only have us back if they can be sure the next Government won't commit us to leave again. We can't keep going in and out like (I'll leave you to come up with your own analogy).

    I like the idea however of a renegotiation to provide for a closer economic and political relationship perhaps via EFTA (which is where I started back in the spring of 16) - perhaps the PD could be revisited to make it a relationship more akin to associate membership.

    If we leave, and I think we will, then the EU will be going bananas to have us back. Obviously they'll not be explicitly doing so, but behind the scenes the LDs will have all the support they want.
    It would be interesting to know where PBers think the Brexit swingometer is pointed at the moment: towards No Deal, Deal or Remain as the most likely eventual outcome?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,694
    egg said:

    Labour took net seats off the conservatives in 15 and 17 and will do so again at the next election.

    There is no Boris bounce, he’s unloved and distrusted. nor double digit Tory poll leads. What you are looking at is a mirage created by Corbyns suppressing labour voters likelihood to vote. A mirage that will vanish the moment an election gun fires.

    I’ll be more specific. It’s the moral ideology dominating Labours agenda that is suppressing their poll lead. For example to turn a government out of power all we should hear from the opposition is everyone to have food, a job, a home, not a union boss in every boardroom, everything nationalised, and Eton brought into the state sector and renamed Slough Highschool. But when a general election is called that agenda, that’s inward looking not outward looking, flips, and the likelihood of Labour voters to vote goes up, the likelihood of them squeezing other parties where needed (like their Peterborough win) goes up.

    You must understand the Labour manifesto at next GE will be pragmatic and competitive, not idealistic and playing into opponents hands.
    We will see. I don't think Labour will repeat the performance of 2017 again.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,497

    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    @AlastairMeeks
    If brexit does happen on 31oct (who knows what that will be) might you be for rejoining?

    Does anyone know what LD policy is post brexit?

    'Rejoin' would be a fantastically hard card to play. Interesting though.

    I agree rejoining couldn't be immediate but could be stated as a long term objective. The problem is the EU will only have us back if they can be sure the next Government won't commit us to leave again. We can't keep going in and out like (I'll leave you to come up with your own analogy).

    I like the idea however of a renegotiation to provide for a closer economic and political relationship perhaps via EFTA (which is where I started back in the spring of 16) - perhaps the PD could be revisited to make it a relationship more akin to associate membership.

    If we leave, and I think we will, then the EU will be going bananas to have us back. Obviously they'll not be explicitly doing so, but behind the scenes the LDs will have all the support they want.
    It would be interesting to know where PBers think the Brexit swingometer is pointed at the moment: towards No Deal, Deal or Remain as the most likely eventual outcome?
    Remain. Remainers seem to have bought themselves more time with the Benn Act, and the Faragites will self destruct unless Boris pulls a miracle from his hat and so hand it to the remainers.
  • viewcode said:

    This is as bizarre as any story to have come out of Trumpland. What on earth could Zelensky possibly have on Biden?

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/20/trump-ukraine-biden-election-help-hillary-clinton-claims

    Biden's son was employed by Ukrainian oligarchs.
    Trump's employed by the Russians!
    Everybody already knows that Trump is corrupt, that's in the price. The goal is to bring Biden down to the same level.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,621
    edited September 2019
    egg said:

    Labour took net seats off the conservatives in 15 and 17 and will do so again at the next election.

    There is no Boris bounce, he’s unloved and distrusted. nor double digit Tory poll leads. What you are looking at is a mirage created by Corbyns suppressing labour voters likelihood to vote. A mirage that will vanish the moment an election gun fires.

    I’ll be more specific. It’s the moral ideology dominating Labours agenda that is suppressing their poll lead. For example to turn a government out of power all we should hear from the opposition is everyone to have food, a job, a home, not a union boss in every boardroom, everything nationalised, and Eton brought into the state sector and renamed Slough Highschool. But when a general election is called that agenda, that’s inward looking not outward looking, flips, and the likelihood of Labour voters to vote goes up, the likelihood of them squeezing other parties where needed (like their Peterborough win) goes up.

    You must understand the Labour manifesto at next GE will be pragmatic and competitive, not idealistic and playing into opponents hands.
    I must confess I thought the last Labour manifesto was precisely that: pragmatic and competitive (against piss-poor opposition from the Tory manifesto tbf).

    Whether they (Labour) can pull the same trick twice remains to be seen.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,605
    egg said:

    kinabalu said:

    ydoethur said:

    There's nothing wrong with being bald, you know!

    No. Indeed baldness suits some people. Although of course some of the people it suits are not bald.
    So you are both bald then.

    How sad.
    I am as bald as an egg.

    *innocent face*
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,621
    kle4 said:

    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    @AlastairMeeks
    If brexit does happen on 31oct (who knows what that will be) might you be for rejoining?

    Does anyone know what LD policy is post brexit?

    'Rejoin' would be a fantastically hard card to play. Interesting though.

    I agree rejoining couldn't be immediate but could be stated as a long term objective. The problem is the EU will only have us back if they can be sure the next Government won't commit us to leave again. We can't keep going in and out like (I'll leave you to come up with your own analogy).

    I like the idea however of a renegotiation to provide for a closer economic and political relationship perhaps via EFTA (which is where I started back in the spring of 16) - perhaps the PD could be revisited to make it a relationship more akin to associate membership.

    If we leave, and I think we will, then the EU will be going bananas to have us back. Obviously they'll not be explicitly doing so, but behind the scenes the LDs will have all the support they want.
    It would be interesting to know where PBers think the Brexit swingometer is pointed at the moment: towards No Deal, Deal or Remain as the most likely eventual outcome?
    Remain. Remainers seem to have bought themselves more time with the Benn Act, and the Faragites will self destruct unless Boris pulls a miracle from his hat and so hand it to the remainers.
    That's accords with my thinking but I suspect there's a large element of wish fulfilment driving that view in my case.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,605

    ydoethur said:

    This is as bizarre as any story to have come out of Trumpland. What on earth could Zelensky possibly have on Biden?

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/20/trump-ukraine-biden-election-help-hillary-clinton-claims

    Biden's son was employed by Ukrainian oligarchs.
    Bit of a stretch to call Ukraine 'a foreign power.' I mean, it can't even control a bunch of half-arsed ragged trouser rebels in Crimea and Donbass whom we are assured have no help from Russia at all, whatsoever, how could we even think that...
    What term do you suggest? A foreign shower?
    'A foreign country' would be accurate. So would 'shower' but it might be considered tactless.

    'Power,' in reference to the Ukraine, is ridiculous hyperbole. The powers of the world are the USA, then some distance behind them China and Russia, then the UK, France, India, Pakistan and possibly Brazil, then the smaller regional powers - Germany, Israel, South Africa, Australia etc.

    But by no stretch of the imagination can anyone include Ukraine.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,621
    The Lib Dems must be loving this challenge to Tom Watson.

    Another defector arriving soon?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,605

    The Lib Dems must be loving this challenge to Tom Watson.

    Another defector arriving soon?

    That would lead to me drifting away from them again.

    Would they really take on a useless thug like Watson and pass up the chance to get the endorsement of a man of wit, talent, sagacity, and the world's most awesome punner?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,290

    The Lib Dems must be loving this challenge to Tom Watson.

    Another defector arriving soon?

    Surely the Deputy Leader can’t defect. That’s GOT to be a split!
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 8,566
    ydoethur said:

    The Lib Dems must be loving this challenge to Tom Watson.

    Another defector arriving soon?

    That would lead to me drifting away from them again.

    Would they really take on a useless thug like Watson and pass up the chance to get the endorsement of a man of wit, talent, sagacity, and the world's most awesome punner?
    So, on the available evidence, Watson is safe then.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,605

    The Lib Dems must be loving this challenge to Tom Watson.

    Another defector arriving soon?

    Surely the Deputy Leader can’t defect. That’s GOT to be a split!
    Well, it's all bananas, and where you get bananas, you get the splits.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,605
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    The Lib Dems must be loving this challenge to Tom Watson.

    Another defector arriving soon?

    That would lead to me drifting away from them again.

    Would they really take on a useless thug like Watson and pass up the chance to get the endorsement of a man of wit, talent, sagacity, and the world's most awesome punner?
    So, on the available evidence, Watson is safe then.
    One of the worst crimes of Jeremy Corbyn - in a field of intense competition - is that he makes me occasionally agree with Tom Watson.
  • Live from Labour conference:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WboggjN_G-4
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    If you think about it Corbyn remaining neutral will help Remain! Just as if Cameron had done the same .

    A referendum as we saw turns into a proxy vote on other issues , an unpopular leader which some voters want to kick just one of them .

    I’m not a Corbyn fan but he at least is trying to navigate a compromise between the warring factions .

    Unfortunately given the entrenched divisions on both sides it will likely fail in a GE .

    The country really is fucked sadly .

    American politics has now infected the UK , Cameron maintains his I had no choice but to call the ref to avoid having a break down .

    The fact remains he opened up a Pandora’s box of problems , and still refuses to accept the truth as it’s just too much for him.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,171
    edited September 2019
    Scott_P said:
    Sounds about par for the course right now...

    Can't be long too before the Lib Dems complete the set and implode under the weight of dissenting opinion driven by defections and revoke policy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,605

    Scott_P said:
    Sounds about par for the course right now...

    Can't be long too before the Lib Dems complete the set and implode under the weight of dissenting opinion driven by defections and revoke policy.
    At this rate they're going to be the first party ever to go from 13 MPs to majority government in one term of parliament.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,621
    Scott_P said:
    Whatever happened to the rumour from @Charles that Corbyn had health issues and might not be leader for too much longer... Just a fake rumour?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 9,061

    Omnium said:

    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    @AlastairMeeks
    If brexit does happen on 31oct (who knows what that will be) might you be for rejoining?

    Does anyone know what LD policy is post brexit?

    'Rejoin' would be a fantastically hard card to play. Interesting though.

    I agree rejoining couldn't be immediate but could be stated as a long term objective. The problem is the EU will only have us back if they can be sure the next Government won't commit us to leave again. We can't keep going in and out like (I'll leave you to come up with your own analogy).

    I like the idea however of a renegotiation to provide for a closer economic and political relationship perhaps via EFTA (which is where I started back in the spring of 16) - perhaps the PD could be revisited to make it a relationship more akin to associate membership.

    If we leave, and I think we will, then the EU will be going bananas to have us back. Obviously they'll not be explicitly doing so, but behind the scenes the LDs will have all the support they want.
    It would be interesting to know where PBers think the Brexit swingometer is pointed at the moment: towards No Deal, Deal or Remain as the most likely eventual outcome?
    It is in a state of quantum superposition. If an outcome is determined, the universe will end.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,605
    What happens if the deputy leader is removed? Does a new one have to be elected before they are removed, as with a leader? If so, who is being put up and how did they get nominated without Watson hearing about it?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,621
    ydoethur said:

    What happens if the deputy leader is removed? Does a new one have to be elected before they are removed, as with a leader? If so, who is being put up and how did they get nominated without Watson hearing about it?

    Aren't the plotters simply abolishing the post?
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    ydoethur said:

    What happens if the deputy leader is removed? Does a new one have to be elected before they are removed, as with a leader? If so, who is being put up and how did they get nominated without Watson hearing about it?

    My reading is that they are abolishing the post.

    They really don’t want to be in Government do they?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited September 2019
    Trouble for Labour is removing Tom Watson is a gift to the Lib Dems .

    They will go hard on they’re now purging Remainers from the shadow cabinet , the most outspoken Remainer removed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,605
    ab195 said:

    ydoethur said:

    What happens if the deputy leader is removed? Does a new one have to be elected before they are removed, as with a leader? If so, who is being put up and how did they get nominated without Watson hearing about it?

    My reading is that they are abolishing the post.

    They really don’t want to be in Government do they?
    So what happens if the leader dies or is incapacitated? Does the PLP elect a chairman pro tem? Or do they just not have a leader?

    Agree with your second point. At this rate they're not even going to be in Opposition much longer.
  • Live from Labour conference:

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WboggjN_G-4

    "He's not a Corbynista! He's a Very Naughty Boy!"
  • So I'm not *too* disappointed to see the Labour Party disappearing up its own arsehole but did they have to choose this particular election to do it? *Maybe* we can flippen the whole non-bonkers opposition to the LibDems but it's an extremely challenging thing to do.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,621
    It's Saturday tomorrow - Lib Dem defection day. Who is it going to be this week?
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    ydoethur said:

    ab195 said:

    ydoethur said:

    What happens if the deputy leader is removed? Does a new one have to be elected before they are removed, as with a leader? If so, who is being put up and how did they get nominated without Watson hearing about it?

    My reading is that they are abolishing the post.

    They really don’t want to be in Government do they?
    So what happens if the leader dies or is incapacitated? Does the PLP elect a chairman pro tem? Or do they just not have a leader?

    Agree with your second point. At this rate they're not even going to be in Opposition much longer.
    To be fair to them, the Tories don’t have an elected Deputy. It can be worked around.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 3,948
    edited September 2019
    Scott_P said:
    You know how I said Labour party rules would prevent Labour being formally in government with anyone but Labour leader as PM.

    I wondered if one loophole would be a friendly suspension of the Labour whip from a TANDA PM candidate (and other friendly MPs wishing to serve in cabinet).

    Might free up Watson to lead, eh ;)?
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477

    It's Saturday tomorrow - Lib Dem defection day. Who is it going to be this week?

    LibDem HQ had better be bulk ordering membership forms....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,497
    Internal party machinations are rarely as dramatic or impactful as they are rumoured to be, or even seem like the should, but in fairness this year has had some actually serious ones for both Tories and, to a lesser extent, Labour. It'd be only reasonable if both the big two started to collapse a bit and give the LDs a chance to rise and then start to collapse, but we probably are not that lucky.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,605
    edited September 2019
    ab195 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ab195 said:

    ydoethur said:

    What happens if the deputy leader is removed? Does a new one have to be elected before they are removed, as with a leader? If so, who is being put up and how did they get nominated without Watson hearing about it?

    My reading is that they are abolishing the post.

    They really don’t want to be in Government do they?
    So what happens if the leader dies or is incapacitated? Does the PLP elect a chairman pro tem? Or do they just not have a leader?

    Agree with your second point. At this rate they're not even going to be in Opposition much longer.
    To be fair to them, the Tories don’t have an elected Deputy. It can be worked around.
    Yes, but the Tories do also have an informal but at the same time a recognised mechanism for nominating a stand-in in the rare event a leader is unavailable. Either the sitting PM or leader may nominate someone, or, if they are unable to do so, a senior cabinet minister in the Lords may chair a Cabinet meeting for the purpose of electing an acting leader.

    What would Labour have?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Pro_Rata said:

    Scott_P said:
    You know how I said Labour party rules would prevent Labour being formally in government with anyone but Labour leader as PM.

    I wondered if one loophole would be a friendly suspension of the Labour whip from a TANDA PM candidate (and other friendly MPs wishing to serve in cabinet).

    Might free up Watson to lead, eh ;)?
    The nonce finder general? lol pull the other one
  • ab195 said:

    It's Saturday tomorrow - Lib Dem defection day. Who is it going to be this week?

    LibDem HQ had better be bulk ordering membership forms....
    Get some cheerful-looking ex-Lab LibDems together, brew up a huge urn full of tea, rent a bus, park the bastard right outside the conference hall.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    ydoethur said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    The Lib Dems must be loving this challenge to Tom Watson.

    Another defector arriving soon?

    That would lead to me drifting away from them again.

    Would they really take on a useless thug like Watson and pass up the chance to get the endorsement of a man of wit, talent, sagacity, and the world's most awesome punner?
    So, on the available evidence, Watson is safe then.
    One of the worst crimes of Jeremy Corbyn - in a field of intense competition - is that he makes me occasionally agree with Tom Watson.
    LOL - I know what you mean
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,497
    ab195 said:

    It's Saturday tomorrow - Lib Dem defection day. Who is it going to be this week?

    LibDem HQ had better be bulk ordering membership forms....
    Brexit really has been a boon to party memberships in general, whilst proving party members can be among the most unreasonable people of all. With apologies to the actually reasonable party members out there.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,621
    ydoethur said:

    ab195 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ab195 said:

    ydoethur said:

    What happens if the deputy leader is removed? Does a new one have to be elected before they are removed, as with a leader? If so, who is being put up and how did they get nominated without Watson hearing about it?

    My reading is that they are abolishing the post.

    They really don’t want to be in Government do they?
    So what happens if the leader dies or is incapacitated? Does the PLP elect a chairman pro tem? Or do they just not have a leader?

    Agree with your second point. At this rate they're not even going to be in Opposition much longer.
    To be fair to them, the Tories don’t have an elected Deputy. It can be worked around.
    Yes, but the Tories do also have an informal but at the same time a recognised mechanism for nominating a stand-in in the rare event a leader is unavailable. Either the sitting PM or leader may nominate someone, or, if they are unable to do so, a senior cabinet minister in the Lords may chair a Cabinet meeting for the purpose of electing an acting leader.

    What would Labour have?
    Presumably the Politburo NEC would meet and decide?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Scott_P said:
    They are completely insane. And ruthless and shameless with it.
    So chuck out Watson but keep the anti semites - real classy
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    The history books will ponder whether the establishment could have blocked Brexit if it hadn’t been for Jezza.

    Chuckle.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,497
    Has not Corbyn benefited to date from the fact that people have cried wolf about his faction doing all manner of awful things like mass deselections, which then have not appeared, thus making him appear relatively reasonable. It would seem odd, at this time, to fan the flames unnecessarily.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 11,222
    kle4 said:



    Brexit really has been a boon to party memberships in general, whilst proving party members can be among the most unreasonable people of all. With apologies to the actually reasonable party members out there.

    It is astonishing - three quarters of the current LD membership joined after 2015. It really is a new party.

    To be fair, both Labour and Conservative parties have seen membership increases so for all the comments about the state of politics, at least it's got people interested and motivated.

  • Truly is Piss Funny. The owner of a private business which is not affiliated with the Labour Party gets to dictate the removal of the elected constitutional deputy leader.

    I'm already consoling my remaining moderate friends in the party. "Fellow rats, the ship is sinking"
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,605
    ab195 said:

    It's Saturday tomorrow - Lib Dem defection day. Who is it going to be this week?

    LibDem HQ had better be bulk ordering membership forms....
    I thought Watson had lost most of his bulk?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,290
    ydoethur said:

    ab195 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ab195 said:

    ydoethur said:

    What happens if the deputy leader is removed? Does a new one have to be elected before they are removed, as with a leader? If so, who is being put up and how did they get nominated without Watson hearing about it?

    My reading is that they are abolishing the post.

    They really don’t want to be in Government do they?
    So what happens if the leader dies or is incapacitated? Does the PLP elect a chairman pro tem? Or do they just not have a leader?

    Agree with your second point. At this rate they're not even going to be in Opposition much longer.
    To be fair to them, the Tories don’t have an elected Deputy. It can be worked around.
    Yes, but the Tories do also have an informal but at the same time a recognised mechanism for nominating a stand-in in the rare event a leader is unavailable. Either the sitting PM or leader may nominate someone, or, if they are unable to do so, a senior cabinet minister in the Lords may chair a Cabinet meeting for the purpose of electing an acting leader.

    What would Labour have?
    In the happy circumstances that the Tories are not in Govt. I assume you can put ‘shadow’ in front of the word ‘cabinet’!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,621
    Looking forward to seeing Labour's conference bounce in the polls next week. :lol:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,497
    I'd be more concerned by the China figures here
    https://twitter.com/benatipsosmori/status/1175151164343685120
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,694

    Truly is Piss Funny. The owner of a private business which is not affiliated with the Labour Party gets to dictate the removal of the elected constitutional deputy leader.

    I'm already consoling my remaining moderate friends in the party. "Fellow rats, the ship is sinking"

    If Watson is removed, do you think there will be any repercussions? Or will Waton’s fraction go meekly into the night?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,605
    Floater said:

    Scott_P said:
    They are completely insane. And ruthless and shameless with it.
    So chuck out Watson but keep the anti semites - real classy
    Which is doubly bewildering when you remember Lansman is actually Jewish.
  • eekeek Posts: 22,060

    It's Saturday tomorrow - Lib Dem defection day. Who is it going to be this week?

    Tom Watson by the looks of it.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,621

    Truly is Piss Funny. The owner of a private business which is not affiliated with the Labour Party gets to dictate the removal of the elected constitutional deputy leader.

    I'm already consoling my remaining moderate friends in the party. "Fellow rats, the ship is sinking"

    I'm intrigued. Excuse my ignorance, who is the owner and what is the private business?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,694
    edited September 2019

    Truly is Piss Funny. The owner of a private business which is not affiliated with the Labour Party gets to dictate the removal of the elected constitutional deputy leader.

    I'm already consoling my remaining moderate friends in the party. "Fellow rats, the ship is sinking"

    I'm intrigued. Excuse my ignorance, who is the owner and what is the private business?
    I would guess Momentum and Lansman.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Good spot. She’s VALUE
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,497
    edited September 2019
    stodge said:

    kle4 said:



    Brexit really has been a boon to party memberships in general, whilst proving party members can be among the most unreasonable people of all. With apologies to the actually reasonable party members out there.

    It is astonishing - three quarters of the current LD membership joined after 2015. It really is a new party.

    To be fair, both Labour and Conservative parties have seen membership increases so for all the comments about the state of politics, at least it's got people interested and motivated.

    It's a fair point, along with the occasionally proffered view that even parliamentary wrangling such as we've seen is a sign of robust democracy in action. And even if one thinks the biggest problem in politics was apathy, well, we've at least temporarily overcome that!

    Personally I don't like that we are in a political crisis and struggling to get out of it, but I think people can overdo how uniquely terrible having a political crisis is, even one as significant as this one.

    Edit: I do wonder how all the older members feel about the massive influx of newbies. Some will be old members returning I am sure, and presently everyone looks to be happy to have inspired so many new people to join, but for those that kept the flame burning during the dark times, might it be hard if the newbies at some point take them in a new direction the oldies don't like?
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 3,948
    Floater said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Scott_P said:
    You know how I said Labour party rules would prevent Labour being formally in government with anyone but Labour leader as PM.

    I wondered if one loophole would be a friendly suspension of the Labour whip from a TANDA PM candidate (and other friendly MPs wishing to serve in cabinet).

    Might free up Watson to lead, eh ;)?
    The nonce finder general? lol pull the other one
    Yes, I had it down as the RLB mechanism. The chances of Watson being put forward iby Corbyn n this manner are less than my chances of scoring the winner in a Champions League final.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,605

    ydoethur said:

    ab195 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ab195 said:

    ydoethur said:

    What happens if the deputy leader is removed? Does a new one have to be elected before they are removed, as with a leader? If so, who is being put up and how did they get nominated without Watson hearing about it?

    My reading is that they are abolishing the post.

    They really don’t want to be in Government do they?
    So what happens if the leader dies or is incapacitated? Does the PLP elect a chairman pro tem? Or do they just not have a leader?

    Agree with your second point. At this rate they're not even going to be in Opposition much longer.
    To be fair to them, the Tories don’t have an elected Deputy. It can be worked around.
    Yes, but the Tories do also have an informal but at the same time a recognised mechanism for nominating a stand-in in the rare event a leader is unavailable. Either the sitting PM or leader may nominate someone, or, if they are unable to do so, a senior cabinet minister in the Lords may chair a Cabinet meeting for the purpose of electing an acting leader.

    What would Labour have?
    In the happy circumstances that the Tories are not in Govt. I assume you can put ‘shadow’ in front of the word ‘cabinet’!
    Yes, although I don't think the question has ever arisen when they were in Opposition. The last time an acting leader was needed was 1975 and Heath nominated Robert Carr. The time before that an acting leader was needed in Opposition was 1911 and the Leader in the Lords nominated someone to look after things for a short time.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 6,903

    Not so long ago, Remainers were weeping tears for Nicholas Soames, a broken blossom culled and tossed by the wayside by careless hands in the Tory party.

    Now Remainers are weeping tears for Tom Watson, a dainty butterfly resting on a sprig of myrtle, crushed to pieces by vindictive people in the Labour Party.

    Actually, both Watson and Soames are ugly and loathsome individuals. They are getting what they deserved.

    Let's hope they both join the LibDems (who are not fussy). They will both be right at home there.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 779
    On topic. I think there are several problems for Benita that make a win vanishingly unlikely. There's still a good amount of loyalty towards Khan among the very voters that are causing the shift in the polls from Lab to Lib - centre-left metropolitan liberals who despise Corbyn and Brexit. There's some respect there for standing up to Corbyn on Brexit and antisemitism and at least saying the right thing, unlike some of his spineless comrades in the House of Commons. There's also a protectiveness towards him that should help him to counter negative campaigning due to the suspicion that from some quarters criticism has other motivations than political disagreements.

    Secondly, she's not a big figure with a major profile who can create headlines and Khan can probably run a "stick with me" campaign against an opponent who's untested on the national stage. Third, another group who may desert Labour will go for the greens and might not bother with Libs as a second or third preference. I'd expect with climate change so often in the headlines the green candidate will do very well - and may even be the main threat to Khan.

    However, if there's any threat whatsoever, the dynamics within Labour will be fascinating. The Corbynistas already can't stand Khan and view him as one of those undermining the dear leader, but Khan may well judge that his best option is to run against Corbyn or a Corbynista dauphin. What's more likely though the smarter people among his advisers and the Labour leadership correctly judge that Khan will win easily and agree a truce providing Jez or his replacement largely stays quiet during the campaign.
  • Truly is Piss Funny. The owner of a private business which is not affiliated with the Labour Party gets to dictate the removal of the elected constitutional deputy leader.

    I'm already consoling my remaining moderate friends in the party. "Fellow rats, the ship is sinking"

    I'm intrigued. Excuse my ignorance, who is the owner and what is the private business?
    Momentum. A private business owned by Jon Lansman.
  • I think historically you get a lot of purging action ahead of a leadership change, is Corbyn planning on retiring???
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 24,621

    Truly is Piss Funny. The owner of a private business which is not affiliated with the Labour Party gets to dictate the removal of the elected constitutional deputy leader.

    I'm already consoling my remaining moderate friends in the party. "Fellow rats, the ship is sinking"

    I'm intrigued. Excuse my ignorance, who is the owner and what is the private business?
    Momentum. A private business owned by Jon Lansman.
    Thanks
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,497

    I think historically you get a lot of purging action ahead of a leadership change, is Corbyn planning on retiring???

    I know not everyone likes a 'wouldn't it be hilarious' hypothetical, but just imagine if Corbyn actually won a GE, then stood down immediately saying his only job was delivering socialism to the country, and he had delivered an election win to do so, but that his critics were right he was not the man to be PM, and his good friend John McDonnell would be taking over? So selfless.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Tom Watson is scum for his fake paedo witch hunt antics.

    Deserves all he gets.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,605

    I think historically you get a lot of purging action ahead of a leadership change, is Corbyn planning on retiring???

    https://youtu.be/6xVip745osc
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,497
    ydoethur said:

    I think historically you get a lot of purging action ahead of a leadership change, is Corbyn planning on retiring???

    https://youtu.be/6xVip745osc
    Great film.
This discussion has been closed.