Repulsive EU flags in The Last Night of The Proms.
The BBC needs to ban them, or stop broadcasting this.
Sad git
No. There comes a point where waving an EU flag is basic treachery. We have reached that point. Take away their flags, and lock them up. Enuff.
I think you need to have a lie down and think about the implication of that view.
Should you be allowed to wave, hoist or honour the EU flag in the UK?
It is the flag of our enemy, the ensign of a hostile power. As we execute Brexit. To me, waving it in the UK, at this juncture. is like waving the swastika during World War 2.
Repulsive EU flags in The Last Night of The Proms.
The BBC needs to ban them, or stop broadcasting this.
Sad git
No. There comes a point where waving an EU flag is basic treachery. We have reached that point. Take away their flags, and lock them up. Enuff.
I think you need to have a lie down and think about the implication of that view.
Should you be allowed to wave, hoist or honour the EU flag in the UK?
It is the flag of our enemy, the ensign of a hostile power. As we execute Brexit. To me, waving it in the UK, at this juncture. is like waving the swastika during World War 2.
I accept others may be more tolerant, even now.
Your transition meds appear to have detrimental side effects. Suggest you return to the docs.
Repulsive EU flags in The Last Night of The Proms.
The BBC needs to ban them, or stop broadcasting this.
Sad git
No. There comes a point where waving an EU flag is basic treachery. We have reached that point. Take away their flags, and lock them up. Enuff.
I think you need to have a lie down and think about the implication of that view.
Should you be allowed to wave, hoist or honour the EU flag in the UK?
It is the flag of our enemy, the ensign of a hostile power. As we execute Brexit. To me, waving it in the UK, at this juncture. is like waving the swastika during World War 2.
I accept others may be more tolerant, even now.
I'm wary of suggesting peopple cannot really believe their own words, no matter how extreme, but come on, that's too silly to possibly be sincere.
Repulsive EU flags in The Last Night of The Proms.
The BBC needs to ban them, or stop broadcasting this.
Sad git
No. There comes a point where waving an EU flag is basic treachery. We have reached that point. Take away their flags, and lock them up. Enuff.
I think you need to have a lie down and think about the implication of that view.
Should you be allowed to wave, hoist or honour the EU flag in the UK?
It is the flag of our enemy, the ensign of a hostile power. As we execute Brexit. To me, waving it in the UK, at this juncture. is like waving the swastika during World War 2.
Repulsive EU flags in The Last Night of The Proms.
The BBC needs to ban them, or stop broadcasting this.
Sad git
No. There comes a point where waving an EU flag is basic treachery. We have reached that point. Take away their flags, and lock them up. Enuff.
The veerings between creativity and and intelligence on the one hand, and spasms of emotional extremity on the other, remind us of an old favourite poster beginning with S.
Poeple don't like polticial parties that refuse to let them have a general election.
As I said on that thread, if Boris gets a deal, pile on the Tories hitting the 40-50% band at the election.
Don't get this idea. Surely, support for Brexit is what is keeping the Tory share up?
No, the people will reward Boris for a) making Brexit finish b) in a way that honoured the referendum vote. Those who want the Brexit fight to go on will become a vanishingly small number.....
Repulsive EU flags in The Last Night of The Proms.
The BBC needs to ban them, or stop broadcasting this.
Sad git
No. There comes a point where waving an EU flag is basic treachery. We have reached that point. Take away their flags, and lock them up. Enuff.
I think you need to have a lie down and think about the implication of that view.
Should you be allowed to wave, hoist or honour the EU flag in the UK?
It is the flag of our enemy, the ensign of a hostile power. As we execute Brexit. To me, waving it in the UK, at this juncture. is like waving the swastika during World War 2.
I accept others may be more tolerant, even now.
To think you voted Remain.
So you voted to be a part of this hostile power.
Yes, I voted Remain, and I will never get over the guilt.
I sometimes wonder if my yearning and desire to change gender, and my impending penectomy, is a product of my shame at my previous Remainerism.
The Tories have now had good polls from several pollsters - as high as 38% from Kantar which seemed freakishly high given their 42% rating a week earlier. Tonight's Opinium is in the same ballpark at 37%, and Yougov has had them as high as 35% a week ago before falling back to 32% earlier this week. There comes a point when it makes little sense to talk in terms of outliers - the polls are what they are - with some generating narrower leads than others.
But it is routinely YouGov and Opinium. Kantar is just occasional.
No, the people will reward Boris for a) making Brexit finish b) in a way that honoured the referendum vote. Those who want the Brexit fight to go on will become a vanishingly small number.....
I agree with this.
Once a deal is agreed the only people left arguing about Brexit will be the extreme fringes.
Poeple don't like polticial parties that refuse to let them have a general election.
As I said on that thread, if Boris gets a deal, pile on the Tories hitting the 40-50% band at the election.
Don't get this idea. Surely, support for Brexit is what is keeping the Tory share up?
No, the people will reward Boris for a) making Brexit finish b) in a way that honoured the referendum vote. Those who want the Brexit fight to go on will become a vanishingly small number.....
People rarely reward governments for things in the past though. Also, a number will be surprised it isn't finished. And some more that everything isn't instantly better. Though I do agree the impetus to fight on will go from a great number.
No, the people will reward Boris for a) making Brexit finish b) in a way that honoured the referendum vote. Those who want the Brexit fight to go on will become a vanishingly small number.....
I agree with this.
Once a deal is agreed the only people left arguing about Brexit will be the extreme fringes.
Nobody else will be interested.
Yes, I agree too.
IF - and it's a fucking big IF - Boris can land some kind of deal - basically any deal, really - he will be acclaimed as the hero of the moment by 90% of a Brexit-sighing bone-weary public, and we will eagerly go back to discussing Strictly and the footie.
Yes, of course, in reality, a million major issues will be wholly unresolved, but the people will file that away in the drawer marked BORING PEOPLE CAN DO THAT and politics will resort to something like normality. and we will all be hugely grateful.
Repulsive EU flags in The Last Night of The Proms.
The BBC needs to ban them, or stop broadcasting this.
Sad git
No. There comes a point where waving an EU flag is basic treachery. We have reached that point. Take away their flags, and lock them up. Enuff.
I think you need to have a lie down and think about the implication of that view.
Should you be allowed to wave, hoist or honour the EU flag in the UK?
It is the flag of our enemy, the ensign of a hostile power. As we execute Brexit. To me, waving it in the UK, at this juncture. is like waving the swastika during World War 2.
I accept others may be more tolerant, even now.
To think you voted Remain.
So you voted to be a part of this hostile power.
Yes, I voted Remain, and I will never get over the guilt.
I sometimes wonder if my yearning and desire to change gender, and my impending penectomy, is a product of my shame at my previous Remainerism.
If you were genuinely ashamed of voting Remain you will only eat Hawaiian pizzas for the rest of your life as penance.
It's almost like half the country still really, really wants brexit...
So it would seem.
In a sane world, the solution would be this: half the country wants to leave, and will stop at nothing to leave, while the other half wishes to remain. The half that wants to leave is more than capable of winning a GE on 30-35% of the vote, taking us out in the hardest way possible.
Recognising this, and their narrow defeat in 2016, remainers support the softest of soft brexits possible - an EEA/EFTA style brexit that keeps us close to the EU and retains many if not all of its benefits.
Meanwhile leavers explain to their hardcore - dare I say diehard - supporters that while they may not be getting everything they want, we are at least opting out of the political project and restoring supremacy of our own judicial and political system with regards to at least 80% of the law. Furthermore if it is a success we can then look at disentangling ourselves further, if that is what the people choose in a subsequent election.
Alas, this of course is far too sensible a compromise.
If I were a good Lib Dem activist, I'd be in Bournemouth celebrating Sam Gyimah's defection but instead I ended up spending the afternoon watching the racing in an air-conditioned bookies' in the City of London - just me and two members of staff.
Better still, as I was in the basement, no phone signal so far from the maddening crowd.
Anyway, welcome to Sam and a reminder to those who haven't kept up, parties change all the time, The Conservative Party has changed, the Labour Party has changed and the Lib Dems have changed. As I've said on here many times, the Party I joined in the early 80s and in which I was active for over 20 years died in the flames of 2015. This is a new party, it attracts different people.
I'd also argue the Party's own interpretation of liberalism has changed as much as the interpretation of conservatism among those who call themselves Conservative now has changed.
To paraphrase Fallout - politics, politics never changes...
Poeple don't like polticial parties that refuse to let them have a general election.
As I said on that thread, if Boris gets a deal, pile on the Tories hitting the 40-50% band at the election.
Don't get this idea. Surely, support for Brexit is what is keeping the Tory share up?
Brexit voters think a deal isn't Brexit. So if Boris gets a deal and we leave the EU the Tory vote share collapses as outraged Brexiteers complain that although we have left the EU we really haven't.
The Tory vote share is being propped up by no deal dickheads. If a deal happens all that goes away. Happily for the Tories Boris is lying when he says he wants a deal as no negotiation is taking place. Unhappily for the Tories a no prep no laws no deal smashed through on Halloween sinks them anyway
No, the people will reward Boris for a) making Brexit finish b) in a way that honoured the referendum vote. Those who want the Brexit fight to go on will become a vanishingly small number.....
I agree with this.
Once a deal is agreed the only people left arguing about Brexit will be the extreme fringes.
Nobody else will be interested.
Yes, I agree too.
IF - and it's a fucking big IF - Boris can land some kind of deal - basically any deal, really - he will be acclaimed as the hero of the moment by 90% of a Brexit-sighing bone-weary public, and we will eagerly go back to discussing Strictly and the footie.
Yes, of course, in reality, a million major issues will be wholly unresolved, but the people will file that away in the drawer marked BORING PEOPLE CAN DO THAT and politics will resort to something like normality. and we will all be hugely grateful.
No, the people will reward Boris for a) making Brexit finish b) in a way that honoured the referendum vote. Those who want the Brexit fight to go on will become a vanishingly small number.....
I agree with this.
Once a deal is agreed the only people left arguing about Brexit will be the extreme fringes.
Nobody else will be interested.
Yes, I agree too.
IF - and it's a fucking big IF - Boris can land some kind of deal - basically any deal, really - he will be acclaimed as the hero of the moment by 90% of a Brexit-sighing bone-weary public, and we will eagerly go back to discussing Strictly and the footie.
Yes, of course, in reality, a million major issues will be wholly unresolved, but the people will file that away in the drawer marked BORING PEOPLE CAN DO THAT and politics will resort to something like normality. and we will all be hugely grateful.
Repulsive EU flags in The Last Night of The Proms.
The BBC needs to ban them, or stop broadcasting this.
Sad git
No. There comes a point where waving an EU flag is basic treachery. We have reached that point. Take away their flags, and lock them up. Enuff.
I think you need to have a lie down and think about the implication of that view.
Should you be allowed to wave, hoist or honour the EU flag in the UK?
It is the flag of our enemy, the ensign of a hostile power. As we execute Brexit. To me, waving it in the UK, at this juncture. is like waving the swastika during World War 2.
I accept others may be more tolerant, even now.
The EU has not killed or physically hurt anyone here. Neither are they stopping us leaving. We are stopping us leaving. You are making yourself look like a fool. Calm down, sober up, or stop trolling. These WW2 metaphors are deeply insulting to the millions who actually died during that conflict.
Repulsive EU flags in The Last Night of The Proms.
The BBC needs to ban them, or stop broadcasting this.
Sad git
No. There comes a point where waving an EU flag is basic treachery. We have reached that point. Take away their flags, and lock them up. Enuff.
I think you need to have a lie down and think about the implication of that view.
Should you be allowed to wave, hoist or honour the EU flag in the UK?
It is the flag of our enemy, the ensign of a hostile power. As we execute Brexit. To me, waving it in the UK, at this juncture. is like waving the swastika during World War 2.
I accept others may be more tolerant, even now.
The EU has not killed or physically hurt anyone here. Neither are they stopping us leaving. We are stopping us leaving. You are making yourself look like a fool. Calm down, sober up, or stop trolling. These WW2 metaphors are deeply insulting to the millions who actually died during that conflict.
So are you just gonna forget the EU palm oil subsidy war which killed possibly 400 million in West Timor? Convenient.
Repulsive EU flags in The Last Night of The Proms.
The BBC needs to ban them, or stop broadcasting this.
Sad git
No. There comes a point where waving an EU flag is basic treachery. We have reached that point. Take away their flags, and lock them up. Enuff.
I think you need to have a lie down and think about the implication of that view.
Should you be allowed to wave, hoist or honour the EU flag in the UK?
It is the flag of our enemy, the ensign of a hostile power. As we execute Brexit. To me, waving it in the UK, at this juncture. is like waving the swastika during World War 2.
I accept others may be more tolerant, even now.
The EU has not killed or physically hurt anyone here. Neither are they stopping us leaving. We are stopping us leaving. You are making yourself look like a fool. Calm down, sober up, or stop trolling. These WW2 metaphors are deeply insulting to the millions who actually died during that conflict.
@Byronic is so obviously a spoof account, probably by SeanT, it's really not worth responding imho.
People rarely reward governments for things in the past though. Also, a number will be surprised it isn't finished. And some more that everything isn't instantly better. Though I do agree the impetus to fight on will go from a great number.
This is where remainers have hugely helped Boris.
The relentless predictions of guaranteed catastrophic doom in the event of the UK leaving will provide such a low bar of expectations that, unless the sky falls in, it will be perceived that the government has done a fantastic job.
Most remainers will probably not even want to mention the subject out of embarrassment at how wrong they were.
You will still get a tiny group claiming that Brexit is a disaster for the country because they can no longer source their favourite Italian vegan cat litter but they will be a rich seam for comedians in the future.
No, the people will reward Boris for a) making Brexit finish b) in a way that honoured the referendum vote. Those who want the Brexit fight to go on will become a vanishingly small number.....
I agree with this.
Once a deal is agreed the only people left arguing about Brexit will be the extreme fringes.
Nobody else will be interested.
Yes, I agree too.
IF - and it's a fucking big IF - Boris can land some kind of deal - basically any deal, really - he will be acclaimed as the hero of the moment by 90% of a Brexit-sighing bone-weary public, and we will eagerly go back to discussing Strictly and the footie.
Yes, of course, in reality, a million major issues will be wholly unresolved, but the people will file that away in the drawer marked BORING PEOPLE CAN DO THAT and politics will resort to something like normality. and we will all be hugely grateful.
It's quite a prize. For Boris.
No one deserves it less than Boris.
Maybe so, but if he can get something over the line, even off the work others put in, I'll give him credit.
Of course, that he might get any acclaimation is another reason to add to the pile why he will not be permitted to get a deal through, and why he needed every Tory and the DUP to vote for it. And he's just lost a bunch of Tories.
Wollaston and Lee and Gyimah now gone (with Soubry and Allen in CUK), just got Grieve, Greening and Bebb to go LD and the Tories will finally be diehard Remainer free! Hooray!
You are rather a sad individual who supports the destruction of the party you joined and worked to get elected. The modern day party is not even brexit party lite
No, those who want to destroy the party were those like Gyimah and Grieve who voted against May's agreement and forced her to extend Article 50 leading to the loss of over 1000 Tory councillors in the local elections and the Tories falling to just 9% of the vote in the European elections in May
And Johnson?
Johnson didn't force May to extend Article 50. He voted against that.
The Tories have now had good polls from several pollsters - as high as 38% from Kantar which seemed freakishly high given their 42% rating a week earlier. Tonight's Opinium is in the same ballpark at 37%, and Yougov has had them as high as 35% a week ago before falling back to 32% earlier this week. There comes a point when it makes little sense to talk in terms of outliers - the polls are what they are - with some generating narrower leads than others.
But it is routinely YouGov and Opinium. Kantar is just occasional.
Until last week , Opinium was not normally particularly strong for the Tories - if anything, the reverse.
People rarely reward governments for things in the past though. Also, a number will be surprised it isn't finished. And some more that everything isn't instantly better. Though I do agree the impetus to fight on will go from a great number.
This is where remainers have hugely helped Boris.
The relentless predictions of guaranteed catastrophic doom in the event of the UK leaving will provide such a low bar of expectations that, unless the sky falls in, it will be perceived that the government has done a fantastic job.
Most remainers will probably not even want to mention the subject out of embarrassment at how wrong they were.
You will still get a tiny group claiming that Brexit is a disaster for the country because they can no longer source their favourite Italian vegan cat litter but they will be a rich seam for comedians in the future.
Brexit has to happen first - and frankly, I can't see the path to it anytime soon.
People rarely reward governments for things in the past though. Also, a number will be surprised it isn't finished. And some more that everything isn't instantly better. Though I do agree the impetus to fight on will go from a great number.
This is where remainers have hugely helped Boris.
The relentless predictions of guaranteed catastrophic doom in the event of the UK leaving will provide such a low bar of expectations that, unless the sky falls in, it will be perceived that the government has done a fantastic job.
Most remainers will probably not even want to mention the subject out of embarrassment at how wrong they were.
You will still get a tiny group claiming that Brexit is a disaster for the country because they can no longer source their favourite Italian vegan cat litter but they will be a rich seam for comedians in the future.
You misunderstand me. I'm talking about the kind of Leavers who expect all the problems of the country to be easily solved within a few months once we are out. The group who think we will all be healthier and wealthier at a stroke.
Wollaston and Lee and Gyimah now gone (with Soubry and Allen in CUK), just got Grieve, Greening and Bebb to go LD and the Tories will finally be diehard Remainer free! Hooray!
You are rather a sad individual who supports the destruction of the party you joined and worked to get elected. The modern day party is not even brexit party lite
No, those who want to destroy the party were those like Gyimah and Grieve who voted against May's agreement and forced her to extend Article 50 leading to the loss of over 1000 Tory councillors in the local elections and the Tories falling to just 9% of the vote in the European elections in May
And Johnson?
Johnson didn't force May to extend Article 50. He voted against that.
You've forgotten Hammond - and quite a few others who signed his letter.
Nevertheless a narrowing of the Tory tent of potential significance
I doubt 1 voter in 10 in Gyimah own constituency would know who he is never mind the wider public.
He was part of Camerons failed experiment which has brought nothing but discord to the party.
The LD's will find out soon enough just what sort of politicians they are collecting once the likes of Gymiah, Soubry, Grieve etc arrive on their doorstep.
Grieve will not defect. He is a Tory. And he will stand as an Independent Tory. So might Soubry.
According to EC rules they will not be allowed to.
Actual evidence of that? independent xxx candidates are allowed to stand literal democrats aren’t.
People rarely reward governments for things in the past though. Also, a number will be surprised it isn't finished. And some more that everything isn't instantly better. Though I do agree the impetus to fight on will go from a great number.
This is where remainers have hugely helped Boris.
The relentless predictions of guaranteed catastrophic doom in the event of the UK leaving will provide such a low bar of expectations that, unless the sky falls in, it will be perceived that the government has done a fantastic job.
Most remainers will probably not even want to mention the subject out of embarrassment at how wrong they were.
You will still get a tiny group claiming that Brexit is a disaster for the country because they can no longer source their favourite Italian vegan cat litter but they will be a rich seam for comedians in the future.
Brexit has to happen first - and frankly, I can't see the path to it anytime soon.
1. Boris gets a deal - pretty much any deal - from the EU
2. In return, the EU will give us no further extensions.
3. The vote becomes Boris's Deal or No Deal.
4. Given the Doom-fest they have made of No Deal, MPs have no choice but to take Boris's Deal.
No one takes this poll seriously. The last one had a Tory lead of 10%. So with Opinium, YouGov it's mostly the house effect.
Which polls do you take seriously?
The problem with regarding Opinion as a "House Effect" is that if it's really neck and neck while they have Tory leads in double figures, you have to conclude that Labour were 20% ahead or so when Opinium had them 8-10% up in Spring. Seems unlikely.
People rarely reward governments for things in the past though. Also, a number will be surprised it isn't finished. And some more that everything isn't instantly better. Though I do agree the impetus to fight on will go from a great number.
This is where remainers have hugely helped Boris.
The relentless predictions of guaranteed catastrophic doom in the event of the UK leaving will provide such a low bar of expectations that, unless the sky falls in, it will be perceived that the government has done a fantastic job.
Most remainers will probably not even want to mention the subject out of embarrassment at how wrong they were.
You will still get a tiny group claiming that Brexit is a disaster for the country because they can no longer source their favourite Italian vegan cat litter but they will be a rich seam for comedians in the future.
Brexit has to happen first - and frankly, I can't see the path to it anytime soon.
1. Boris gets a deal - pretty much any deal - from he EU
2. In return, the EU will give us no further extensions.
3. The vote becomes Boris's Deal or No Deal.
4. Given the Doom-fest they have made of No Deal, MPs have no choice but to take Boris's Deal.
All by 31st October.
Precisely. I can't see either 1. or 2. happening.
I may be wrong of course, I get that. But I don't think so.
Repulsive EU flags in The Last Night of The Proms.
The BBC needs to ban them, or stop broadcasting this.
Sad git
No. There comes a point where waving an EU flag is basic treachery. We have reached that point. Take away their flags, and lock them up. Enuff.
I think you need to have a lie down and think about the implication of that view.
Should you be allowed to wave, hoist or honour the EU flag in the UK?
It is the flag of our enemy, the ensign of a hostile power. As we execute Brexit. To me, waving it in the UK, at this juncture. is like waving the swastika during World War 2.
I accept others may be more tolerant, even now.
The EU copied it from the Council of Europe. On 1st November 2019, no matter what happens with Brexit, the UK will still be a member of the Council of Europe, as will be Norway, Switzerland and every country in Europe except for Belarus.
People rarely reward governments for things in the past though. Also, a number will be surprised it isn't finished. And some more that everything isn't instantly better. Though I do agree the impetus to fight on will go from a great number.
This is where remainers have hugely helped Boris.
The relentless predictions of guaranteed catastrophic doom in the event of the UK leaving will provide such a low bar of expectations that, unless the sky falls in, it will be perceived that the government has done a fantastic job.
Most remainers will probably not even want to mention the subject out of embarrassment at how wrong they were.
You will still get a tiny group claiming that Brexit is a disaster for the country because they can no longer source their favourite Italian vegan cat litter but they will be a rich seam for comedians in the future.
Brexit has to happen first - and frankly, I can't see the path to it anytime soon.
1. Boris gets a deal - pretty much any deal - from the EU
2. In return, the EU will give us no further extensions.
3. The vote becomes Boris's Deal or No Deal.
4. Given the Doom-fest they have made of No Deal, MPs have no choice but to take Boris's Deal.
All by 31st October.
You keep suggesting this approach, but I'm none the wiser why the EU will say they will give no further extensions, particularly when some among them at least want us to change our minds and remain, and don't want to close the door to us. No deal vs deal would see deal win, but neither parliament nor the EU have a reason to be so obliging - the idea they are so irritated they will change their tune on this seems without foundation.
People rarely reward governments for things in the past though. Also, a number will be surprised it isn't finished. And some more that everything isn't instantly better. Though I do agree the impetus to fight on will go from a great number.
This is where remainers have hugely helped Boris.
The relentless predictions of guaranteed catastrophic doom in the event of the UK leaving will provide such a low bar of expectations that, unless the sky falls in, it will be perceived that the government has done a fantastic job.
Most remainers will probably not even want to mention the subject out of embarrassment at how wrong they were.
You will still get a tiny group claiming that Brexit is a disaster for the country because they can no longer source their favourite Italian vegan cat litter but they will be a rich seam for comedians in the future.
Brexit has to happen first - and frankly, I can't see the path to it anytime soon.
1. Boris gets a deal - pretty much any deal - from the EU
2. In return, the EU will give us no further extensions.
3. The vote becomes Boris's Deal or No Deal.
4. Given the Doom-fest they have made of No Deal, MPs have no choice but to take Boris's Deal.
All by 31st October.
There's not enough time to pass all the required deal legislation before the 31st of October.
Heck there's not enough time to pass all the required NO deal legislation before the 31st of October.
People rarely reward governments for things in the past though. Also, a number will be surprised it isn't finished. And some more that everything isn't instantly better. Though I do agree the impetus to fight on will go from a great number.
This is where remainers have hugely helped Boris.
The relentless predictions of guaranteed catastrophic doom in the event of the UK leaving will provide such a low bar of expectations that, unless the sky falls in, it will be perceived that the government has done a fantastic job.
Most remainers will probably not even want to mention the subject out of embarrassment at how wrong they were.
You will still get a tiny group claiming that Brexit is a disaster for the country because they can no longer source their favourite Italian vegan cat litter but they will be a rich seam for comedians in the future.
Brexit has to happen first - and frankly, I can't see the path to it anytime soon.
1. Boris gets a deal - pretty much any deal - from the EU
2. In return, the EU will give us no further extensions.
3. The vote becomes Boris's Deal or No Deal.
4. Given the Doom-fest they have made of No Deal, MPs have no choice but to take Boris's Deal.
All by 31st October.
So as long as the Tory party are ok that’s fine then
Poeple don't like polticial parties that refuse to let them have a general election.
As I said on that thread, if Boris gets a deal, pile on the Tories hitting the 40-50% band at the election.
Don't get this idea. Surely, support for Brexit is what is keeping the Tory share up?
Brexit voters think a deal isn't Brexit. So if Boris gets a deal and we leave the EU the Tory vote share collapses as outraged Brexiteers complain that although we have left the EU we really haven't.
The Tory vote share is being propped up by no deal dickheads. If a deal happens all that goes away. Happily for the Tories Boris is lying when he says he wants a deal as no negotiation is taking place. Unhappily for the Tories a no prep no laws no deal smashed through on Halloween sinks them anyway
Provided the Tories get a deal, ie without a GB backstop, then most voters bar a few No Deal and Brexit Party diehards will be happy with that. It likely takes a Tory majority free of the DUP to deliver it though
People rarely reward governments for things in the past though. Also, a number will be surprised it isn't finished. And some more that everything isn't instantly better. Though I do agree the impetus to fight on will go from a great number.
This is where remainers have hugely helped Boris.
The relentless predictions of guaranteed catastrophic doom in the event of the UK leaving will provide such a low bar of expectations that, unless the sky falls in, it will be perceived that the government has done a fantastic job.
Most remainers will probably not even want to mention the subject out of embarrassment at how wrong they were.
You will still get a tiny group claiming that Brexit is a disaster for the country because they can no longer source their favourite Italian vegan cat litter but they will be a rich seam for comedians in the future.
Brexit has to happen first - and frankly, I can't see the path to it anytime soon.
1. Boris gets a deal - pretty much any deal - from the EU
2. In return, the EU will give us no further extensions.
3. The vote becomes Boris's Deal or No Deal.
4. Given the Doom-fest they have made of No Deal, MPs have no choice but to take Boris's Deal.
All by 31st October.
There's not enough time to pass all the required deal legislation before the 31st of October.
Heck there's not enough time to pass all the required NO deal legislation before the 31st of October.
It's a good job parliament is sitting non-stop to get the job done then.
Comments
Imagine getting triggered by a flag.
https://twitter.com/MoS_Politics/status/1172968556407005185
Good riddance .
Polls awesome for Boris though - chuckle.
https://order-order.com/2019/09/14/lib-dems-applaud-call-eu-become-empire/
It is the flag of our enemy, the ensign of a hostile power. As we execute Brexit. To me, waving it in the UK, at this juncture. is like waving the swastika during World War 2.
I accept others may be more tolerant, even now.
So you voted to be a part of this hostile power.
I sometimes wonder if my yearning and desire to change gender, and my impending penectomy, is a product of my shame at my previous Remainerism.
Once a deal is agreed the only people left arguing about Brexit will be the extreme fringes.
Nobody else will be interested.
Though I do agree the impetus to fight on will go from a great number.
Surely that should be, 'An die Freude?'
I think they'll get reported as well, they could be disbarred from practising.
IF - and it's a fucking big IF - Boris can land some kind of deal - basically any deal, really - he will be acclaimed as the hero of the moment by 90% of a Brexit-sighing bone-weary public, and we will eagerly go back to discussing Strictly and the footie.
Yes, of course, in reality, a million major issues will be wholly unresolved, but the people will file that away in the drawer marked BORING PEOPLE CAN DO THAT and politics will resort to something like normality. and we will all be hugely grateful.
It's quite a prize. For Boris.
Recognising this, and their narrow defeat in 2016, remainers support the softest of soft brexits possible - an EEA/EFTA style brexit that keeps us close to the EU and retains many if not all of its benefits.
Meanwhile leavers explain to their hardcore - dare I say diehard - supporters that while they may not be getting everything they want, we are at least opting out of the political project and restoring supremacy of our own judicial and political system with regards to at least 80% of the law. Furthermore if it is a success we can then look at disentangling ourselves further, if that is what the people choose in a subsequent election.
Alas, this of course is far too sensible a compromise.
If I were a good Lib Dem activist, I'd be in Bournemouth celebrating Sam Gyimah's defection but instead I ended up spending the afternoon watching the racing in an air-conditioned bookies' in the City of London - just me and two members of staff.
Better still, as I was in the basement, no phone signal so far from the maddening crowd.
Anyway, welcome to Sam and a reminder to those who haven't kept up, parties change all the time, The Conservative Party has changed, the Labour Party has changed and the Lib Dems have changed. As I've said on here many times, the Party I joined in the early 80s and in which I was active for over 20 years died in the flames of 2015. This is a new party, it attracts different people.
I'd also argue the Party's own interpretation of liberalism has changed as much as the interpretation of conservatism among those who call themselves Conservative now has changed.
To paraphrase Fallout - politics, politics never changes...
The Tory vote share is being propped up by no deal dickheads. If a deal happens all that goes away. Happily for the Tories Boris is lying when he says he wants a deal as no negotiation is taking place. Unhappily for the Tories a no prep no laws no deal smashed through on Halloween sinks them anyway
You have to patronise them within an inch of their lives.
I can almost sympathise with Cameron and Corbyn.
Boris is a One Nation Conservative who happens to support Leave, so is Gove.
The relentless predictions of guaranteed catastrophic doom in the event of the UK leaving will provide such a low bar of expectations that, unless the sky falls in, it will be perceived that the government has done a fantastic job.
Most remainers will probably not even want to mention the subject out of embarrassment at how wrong they were.
You will still get a tiny group claiming that Brexit is a disaster for the country because they can no longer source their favourite Italian vegan cat litter but they will be a rich seam for comedians in the future.
On the side of a bus.....
Of course, that he might get any acclaimation is another reason to add to the pile why he will not be permitted to get a deal through, and why he needed every Tory and the DUP to vote for it. And he's just lost a bunch of Tories. If the point needs explaining like that maybe it would have been worth selecting some other line as the headline?
YES YES YES!!!!
Gove however I think is 100% genuine, I believe he views the EU as having destroyed his father's business and has been a lifelong sceptic.
2. In return, the EU will give us no further extensions.
3. The vote becomes Boris's Deal or No Deal.
4. Given the Doom-fest they have made of No Deal, MPs have no choice but to take Boris's Deal.
All by 31st October.
I was wrong.
I have never come across a man with such an awesome talent for faking genuineness. Not even Blair.
I may be wrong of course, I get that. But I don't think so.
https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1172969604286734338
Heck there's not enough time to pass all the required NO deal legislation before the 31st of October.
Oh...