A ha! Canterbury Lib Dems cancelled last night's candidate selection..... Rosie Duffield fave to go!
Help me here - what does this mean?
Theres a rumour a labour mp is defecting to the Lib dems who is of recent intake. A bit of digging led to Rosie D but she is now denying. The original source seems certain someone is off though
David Cameron 'Johnson and Gove behaved appallingly'.. 'Mr Cameron - who was prime minister between 2010 and 2016 - said Mr Johnson, Mr Gove, Penny Mordaunt and Priti Patel had "left the truth at home" on the referendum campaign trail, especially when it came to immigration.'
"I think we can get to a situation where we leave but we are friends, neighbours and partners. We can get there, but I wouleither do I think a no-deal Brexit is a good idea."
However Cameron had warmer words for his successor as PM, Theresa May praising her for her "phenomenal" work rate and her "ethos of public service", even if he was not unquestioning of her strategy.
"I remember frequently texting [Mrs May] about the frustration of getting a Brexit deal and then seeing Brexiteers vote it down possibly at the risk of the whole project they had devoted themselves to," said Mr Cameron. "Maddening and infuriating "There's an argument that Brexit is just impossible to deliver and no one could have done, and there's an argument that, well, wrong choices were made. This is somewhere in between."
Dissing Boris and praising May - I assume you think he is not really a Conservative?
Where have I said that? I campening and Gyimah and Lee.
Yes, but you shift on a dime depending on what the Tory policy of the present is, which is why I framed it as a question. Being against no deal, and being against the great Boris, is now enough for you to say MPs should be deselected and indeed kicked out of the party. So why wouldn't I assume it follows that since Cameron doesn't think no deal Brexit is good you would not consider him a Conservative?
If what the leader does is of no concern to you, you will still back them, I wonder how you can even bring yourself to campaign for them since it logically follows that you don't believe half of what you are saying - Boris fans trash May constantly, insist she was terrible, you cannot genuinely have thought May was great before and now believe she was terrible, so which one do you actually back?
Cameron is not standing for Parliament again, if he did then I would require him to back Brexit Deal or No Deal.
May was a technocrat, like Brown, without the charisma and empathy needed in leaders in the modern age in western democracies, she tried her best with the Withdrawal Agreement but in the end it probably needs someone like Boris who backed Leave to get a Deal a majority of Leavers will accept
I expect the juiciest bits are in the headlines (to make people buy it) - I’m more interested in the fully story, from his perspective.
He's annoyed at the betrayal of Gove, Johnson, Patel, and Mordaunt for trashing their government during the referendum.
But he's really annoyed at what they've done to the party and the country (specifically No Deal), as a Unionist he's annoyed a lot by those prepared to sacrifice the Union and the peace process for Brexit
I suspect most members will ignore the advice of the man who is the only Tory to have won a majority in the last 27 years, they'll prefer to denigrate him.
He, Lost. The. Unloseable. Referendum.
Why? Because he's arrogant and complacent, and seriously over-rates himself. Never forget he nearly lost indyref too (and with it the Union), because, again, he over-rated himself, and under-rated Salmond and Sturgeon.
That's a pattern of behaviour. That's what Dave IS: a mediocre politician with serious flaws, who fatally thought "he'd be rather good at being prime minister".
As it happened he was terribly, terribly bad at being prime minister.
Eton has a lot to answer for.
He lost the EU ref, which is a big deal, but I'd definitely take Coalition PM Cameron over what we have now, and I don't think a single event means everything else is irrelevant. Even Blair, now judged solely on Iraq, does not have his good parts erased.
To be fair to Cameron and Blair they are the only leaders to have won general election majorities for the past 27 years
Given the problems we have had with slim majorities and awkwardly hung parliaments (particularly now the LDs will run a mile from any coalition agreement), I rather hope the upcoming GE produces something a bit more workable for Boris or Corbyn, though it seems trickier for the latter.
Has that been added by the tweeter not the spokesman though? The actual comment doesn't seem equivocal, and why would she possibly defect later if not on the grand occasion of the LD conference?
Reading between the lines of the Foster tweet but especially his replies the rumoured Lab to LD defector will be one or more of Scottish, Europhile and Jewish. They'll also be previously tribally Labour. Aside from Rosie Duffield I wonder about Ian Murray.
Losing the EU ref absolutely extinguishes everything else. What other stuff did he do? Cones hotline? Was that him? I forget.
And I forget because the error over the referendum was just epochally ginormous. nothing else matters in comparison,
At least Cameron himself has the self-awareness to admit this, in his BBC interview.
It doesn't matter if he admits it himself or not. People are remembered for epochal moments, but that is not all they are. If he was good, great or crappy as a PM generally that is worthwhile to know, rather than pretend that single things, however massively important, are the only things that matter. Was the country made a better place during the premierships of Camron, Blair, Thatcher and all the rest? Even if they had a dull premiership of staying the course with nothing memorable, that in itself might be an achievement. While memories are fresh and passions high of course the only things people care about are the big things, the big failures, but an unmemorable period of competency before a big failure would be a good premiership compared to one of complete chaos and uselessness.
It's just plain laziness to write off any PM based off single things, however important. It's worth considering all they did, including governing boringly but stably, and it might well be still conclude the big failure exceeds that. But a belched out 'dat person is a loser/evil, end of' is not being decisive, it's taking the easy route of not thinking about it, and proudly so.
I imagine history will be quite unkind on Cameron and his legacy because of Brexit. But what it won't do is ignore everything that came before, good bad or dull. It's important context for one thing.
No.
The loss of the EU referendum is the greatest rupture in British peacetime history, certainly over the last century. And Cameron came in wanting to stop the Tories squabbling about Europe! Instead he horribly divided the whole country over Europe.
It is a catastrophic error, by any standards, and it really doesn't matter if he was boringly competent before. It's like saying "oh I was driving fine until I accelerated to 200 mph and ran over all the old ladies". Well, yeah, OK. but you ran over all the old ladies, and in the courtroom of history, that is all that matters.
Moreover, it's not like the referendum loss was some mad random event that came from nowhere. The mishandling of the renegotiations (telling the EU he would never campaign for Leave before he even started?!), the criminally casual way he called the plebiscite, without thinking through the possibility and consequences of defeat, etc etc, all these stem from flaws in Cameron's personality: the complacency, and arrogance, and misplaced self-regard.
If Boris wins a majority nationally he will easily be re elected in Uxbridge, in fact on UNS Labour would need to win an overall majority to take the seat so I suspect Boris has little to fear whatever current polls say, in fact an anti Brexit Tory candidate could just split the diehard Remainer anti Boris vote
Are you really so bone-headedly stupid that you can't understand the difference between (1) people who don't want to plunge the country into the lunacy of a No Deal Brexit and (2) "diehard remainers"?
Be as rude as ever but Leavers do not want further extension by an overwhelming margin and Hillingdon voted Leave
Sorry, but your posts are just wilfully stupid, and it's not rude to point that out - just accurate.
Just listen, and try to think: (1) Some people want to leave with No Deal (2) Some people want to remain (3) But many people who either voted to leave in the first place, or are willing to see the referendum result respected, view leaving without a deal as sheer lunacy.
So stop your stupid and/or dishonest misrepresentation of those who aren't crazy enough to support No Deal, as "diehard remainers."
If they also voted down the Withdrawal Agreement they are diehard Remainers
But you didn't vote LEAVE in 2016!
People are allowed to change their minds (although obviously only if it's Remain to Leave).
Reading between the lines of the Foster tweet but especially his replies the rumoured Lab to LD defector will be one or more of Scottish, Europhile and Jewish. They'll also be previously tribally Labour. Aside from Rosie Duffield I wonder about Ian Murray.
IT would plausibly make his local Tory tactical voters in South Edinburgh even more willing to vote for him - very Remainy area.
Ironically both Cameron and Blair are probably more popular with the LDs than they are with their own party memberships now, Cameron is defined by leading the losing Remain campaign in the referendum and Blair by invading Iraq despite being reasonable PMs outside that
You can be assured Blair has few friends in the LDs when it comes to Iraq. That was, as I recall, a policy the Conservatives enthusiastically supported under IDS in 2003-4. Perhaps it's the Conservatives who are the friends of Blair.
Most of the sandal wearing LDs who comprised much of the party under Charles Kennedy are now voting Corbyn Labour, replaced by lots of Remain voters who voted for Blair in 2001 and 2005 or Cameron in 2010 and 2015.
The Liberal Democrats and Labour now have very different voting bases to 15 years ago. The Tory vote is still much the same as it was under IDS and Michael Howard and beyond Iraq (which is at least now a democracy and finally largely ISIS free) there was little agreement with Blair
Comments
He thought he could walk on water after the Scottish Ref apparently telling the EU not to worry about the referendum as he was a winner !
He ran an abysmal campaign , cremated the economic arguments and refused to change tack even after he was warned that it wasn’t working .
He really should be too ashamed to show his face.
At the end of the day he called the referendum and the buck stops with him , he needs to stop playing the victim !
May was a technocrat, like Brown, without the charisma and empathy needed in leaders in the modern age in western democracies, she tried her best with the Withdrawal Agreement but in the end it probably needs someone like Boris who backed Leave to get a Deal a majority of Leavers will accept
NEW THREAD
The loss of the EU referendum is the greatest rupture in British peacetime history, certainly over the last century. And Cameron came in wanting to stop the Tories squabbling about Europe! Instead he horribly divided the whole country over Europe.
It is a catastrophic error, by any standards, and it really doesn't matter if he was boringly competent before. It's like saying "oh I was driving fine until I accelerated to 200 mph and ran over all the old ladies". Well, yeah, OK. but you ran over all the old ladies, and in the courtroom of history, that is all that matters.
Moreover, it's not like the referendum loss was some mad random event that came from nowhere. The mishandling of the renegotiations (telling the EU he would never campaign for Leave before he even started?!), the criminally casual way he called the plebiscite, without thinking through the possibility and consequences of defeat, etc etc, all these stem from flaws in Cameron's personality: the complacency, and arrogance, and misplaced self-regard.
He really is a twat.
The Liberal Democrats and Labour now have very different voting bases to 15 years ago. The Tory vote is still much the same as it was under IDS and Michael Howard and beyond Iraq (which is at least now a democracy and finally largely ISIS free) there was little agreement with Blair