@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
He was always a bit eccentric and obsessed with polls and his interpretations of them. But lately, he has gone really ………..
Having considered the matter, my guess is that HYUFD stands for 'Here's your useless f****** data'.
Given that Churchill proposed a kind of 'United States of Europe' in 1946 someone's got profoundly the wrong idea about the pro-EU side. If HYUFD and Johnson both idolise Churchill they've got rather strange ways of showing it.
I was on at the time last night and I think emotions (and alcohol) were running high!
Fine. We've all been there but then apologise.
As someone who has read this site since the mid 2000s (and who sometimes comments too): I don’t think there’s much to be gained by being censorious about Sean.
He’s something of a fantasist: I really do doubt he’s living the life he claims to - it’s probably a lot more humble. I hesitate to use other terms.
Adopting his new “Byronic” persona is one thing, but combined with asking the site owners to expunge his previous contributions shows that despite regularly abusing people on this site, he’s probably the most needy contributor. He feels a compulsion to post here.
Is he entertaining? Yes.
You must remember the smiling Gordons?
Those were simpler times.
For all his crazy late night stuff he is a great poster most of the time. He does some brilliant insults and some great posting. Having had a roasting from him a few times I just laughed and gave him it back.
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
He was always a bit eccentric and obsessed with polls and his interpretations of them. But lately, he has gone really ………..
It's the first sign of acceptance of the impending accession of Prime Minister Swinson. Bringer of Liberalism. Breaker of chains.
Perish the thought, it would be mass emigration. Compulsory sandals with socks and lentils 5 times a week.
If it was me I would be tempted to put it down to rhetoric/rioja/the internet but it wasn't me. It was you and if you as the recipient feel, as you have every right to, that it was not appropriate then he should absolutely apologise.
Have to say he sounds like he could not beat a carpet, just put it down to drink and move on. Be different if he knocked on your door.
Agree Malc but it seems that @Noo is upset and it would be a shame to lose either of them.
I would say I'm worried rather than upset. I've been threatened by people online before (a brexiter, but I don't want to make too much of that fact because you get nutters on all sides). They started seriously to try to track me down and found out where my partner worked. When that kind of thing happens to you it's startling and it tends to make you more wary about what /might/ just be idle drunken threats.
So I am really not tolerant of threats. If I were in charge of this place, I'd have suspended them for a few weeks giving a clear reason why it was happening and that they can be welcomed back if they can just control their worst impulses. I thought that they would be removed for good, but it seems that actually nothing has happened at all.
I have no wish to silence people per se, but there does come a point where it starts to become the least worst option. Not for holding unpleasant views (that's just perspective), nor for insults (I would certainly be a hypocrite if I thought that). But things went beyond that.
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
I seem to recall you comparing by association leavers with the nationalist fanatics of the Yugoslav civil war.
For many of us that was an equally disreputable and hysterical association to make.
Do you remember when she ever met someone from the public. I only ever saw her in factories or with bussed in Tories. In Scotland she even used the back doors or met in middle of a forest.
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
He was always a bit eccentric and obsessed with polls and his interpretations of them. But lately, he has gone really ………..
It's the first sign of acceptance of the impending accession of Prime Minister Swinson. Bringer of Liberalism. Breaker of chains.
Perish the thought, it would be mass emigration. Compulsory sandals with socks and lentils 5 times a week.
You make it sound bad... but there /are/ different varieties of lentils. And you might be allowed to have cous cous of a Sunday. If you behave.
This is the conversation I had with another_richard about the Tories being unpopular oop North, because of Thatcher and the miners' strike.
another_richard
From TSE's previous piece:
As a bona fide Northerner I still see and hear references from Labour voters to what they see as the evil perpetrated by Lady Thatcher. The miners’ strike is still mentioned more than 35 years after the event, usually as a reason not to vote Tory.
Mentioned by whom ?
We're in an era where Hallam is Labour and Derbyshire NE is Conservative.
Just as there are differences between regions there are differences within regions.
Me:
Some voters we canvassed in 2015 in Pudsey and other West Yorkshire marginals.
One of them couldn't have been more than 25 years old and he said his Dad would chuck him out of the house if he voted Tory because of the miners' strike.
I heard the same from a friend who was canvassing in Stocksbridge in 2017.
The Extinction Rebellion protest in Sheffield on Monday had an anti Thatcher banner which was ironic as she was supposed to have destroyed the coal industry, something I thought the Extinction Rebellion would have supported.
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
He was always a bit eccentric and obsessed with polls and his interpretations of them. But lately, he has gone really ………..
It's the first sign of acceptance of the impending accession of Prime Minister Swinson. Bringer of Liberalism. Breaker of chains.
Perish the thought, it would be mass emigration. Compulsory sandals with socks and lentils 5 times a week.
You make it sound bad... but there /are/ different varieties of lentils. And you might be allowed to have cous cous of a Sunday. If you behave.
More worried about the sandals with socks to be fair and heaven forbid tanktops.
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
He was always a bit eccentric and obsessed with polls and his interpretations of them. But lately, he has gone really ………..
It's the first sign of acceptance of the impending accession of Prime Minister Swinson. Bringer of Liberalism. Breaker of chains.
Perish the thought, it would be mass emigration. Compulsory sandals with socks and lentils 5 times a week.
You make it sound bad... but there /are/ different varieties of lentils. And you might be allowed to have cous cous of a Sunday. If you behave.
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
He was always a bit eccentric and obsessed with polls and his interpretations of them. But lately, he has gone really ………..
It's the first sign of acceptance of the impending accession of Prime Minister Swinson. Bringer of Liberalism. Breaker of chains.
Perish the thought, it would be mass emigration. Compulsory sandals with socks and lentils 5 times a week.
The Lib Dems are pluralists, malcolm - they'd allow you the occasional turnip.
And in any event, the mass emigration might provide a welcome boost to the economy of a newly independent Scotland ?
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
He was always a bit eccentric and obsessed with polls and his interpretations of them. But lately, he has gone really ………..
It's the first sign of acceptance of the impending accession of Prime Minister Swinson. Bringer of Liberalism. Breaker of chains.
Perish the thought, it would be mass emigration. Compulsory sandals with socks and lentils 5 times a week.
The Lib Dems are pluralists, malcolm - they'd allow you the occasional turnip.
And in any event, the mass emigration might provide a welcome boost to the economy of a newly independent Scotland ?
Make it split peas instead of turnips and you're halfway to a broth.
But is Ms Swinson really that kind of liberal? Somehow I can't see her wearing sandals (at least not since her Start-Rite ones in infant school).
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
I seem to recall you comparing by association leavers with the nationalist fanatics of the Yugoslav civil war.
For many of us that was an equally disreputable and hysterical association to make.
The old rule remains true. Once somebody brings the Nazis into the debate they have lost the argument. So that you are HYUFD. He is likely scared witless by the thought of his beloved Brexit and Boris are going to get slaughtered
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
I seem to recall you comparing by association leavers with the nationalist fanatics of the Yugoslav civil war.
For many of us that was an equally disreputable and hysterical association to make.
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
I seem to recall you comparing by association leavers with the nationalist fanatics of the Yugoslav civil war.
For many of us that was an equally disreputable and hysterical association to make.
ii) With the £350 million on the bus, I think Michael and Boris left the truth at home
He writes that Johnson and Gove behaved “appallingly”. Were they not just fighting to win?
“I say in the book: Boris had never argued for leaving the EU, right? Michael was a very strong Eurosceptic, but someone whom I’d known as this liberal, compassionate, rational Conservative ended up making arguments about Turkey [joining] and being swamped and what have you. They were trashing the government of which they were a part, effectively.”
Gove’s “people in this country have had enough of experts”? Johnson on the threat of Turkey – ie a Muslim country – joining the EU?
“Well, it was ridiculous. There was a moment when I think it was Penny Mordaunt said on a Sunday morning show, ‘We have no power to stop Turkey joining the EU.’ It’s just not true.”
iii)Then there was, I say, Priti Patel, now our home secretary. He levers his eyes heavenward. “I remember her attack that wealthy people didn’t understand the problems of immigration. It felt very like she was put on point to do some attacking of the government and its record. I suppose some people would say all is fair in love and war and political campaigns. I thought there were places Conservatives wouldn’t go against each other. And they did.”
Other observation
Prorogation and taking away the whip have rebounded. I don’t support either. And I don’t think no deal is a good idea’
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
He was always a bit eccentric and obsessed with polls and his interpretations of them. But lately, he has gone really ………..
It's the first sign of acceptance of the impending accession of Prime Minister Swinson. Bringer of Liberalism. Breaker of chains.
Perish the thought, it would be mass emigration. Compulsory sandals with socks and lentils 5 times a week.
The Lib Dems are pluralists, malcolm - they'd allow you the occasional turnip.
And in any event, the mass emigration might provide a welcome boost to the economy of a newly independent Scotland ?
A newly independent scotland will have mass emigration in only one way.
Unless Corbyn gets in. In which case there will indeed be mass migration...to Ireland...from both...
It's not going to do down well. I do understand the anger at the idea we were not prepared for a Leave victory, and even the 'run away' stuff (even though let's be honest, his party would not have let him remain in post after the failure) but it seems quite apparent most of the anger comes from the fact that he allowed the referendum at all, with anger at the result transplanting onto that. So putting his own side, which obviously will seek to eschew any responsibility as any political autobiography (well, bad ones) will do, will just provoke even more fury. Just what we need.
I actually feel sorry for the likes of Cameron, Blair and Thatcher as no matter how much blame for things they do deserve, they get so much undeserved or hysterical levels of crap as well. It's only a little sorry though, given they did ask for the positions they held, but even so.
Boris drives lefties absolutely crazy. Has done since his first Mayoral campaign in 2008.
General reception to Mrs May was more... Meh.
I can see why. He's basically the template of how being rich and privileged can get you promoted far above the level of your abilities. He's an emblem of structural inequality of opportunity. The place where I grew up is hugely left wing. I'd be thought of as right wing there because I believe in a mixed economy and that capitalism as brought bounteous wonders to our world. But it hasn't escaped me that the left are spot on in some things, and the wringing injustice of how rewards are allocated -- I'm talking jobs as much as resources -- is one of them. Boris Johnson isn't even close to being the most talented person in cabinet, let alone the country. The fact that he got to Downing Street -- and we all know how -- is neon sign that something is deeply wrong.
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
I seem to recall you comparing by association leavers with the nationalist fanatics of the Yugoslav civil war.
For many of us that was an equally disreputable and hysterical association to make.
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
I seem to recall you comparing by association leavers with the nationalist fanatics of the Yugoslav civil war.
For many of us that was an equally disreputable and hysterical association to make.
For the nth time, I did no such thing.
On the same basis HYUFD has not compared remainers to NAZIs.
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
I seem to recall you comparing by association leavers with the nationalist fanatics of the Yugoslav civil war.
For many of us that was an equally disreputable and hysterical association to make.
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
I seem to recall you comparing by association leavers with the nationalist fanatics of the Yugoslav civil war.
For many of us that was an equally disreputable and hysterical association to make.
For the nth time, I did no such thing.
On the same basis HYUFD has not compared remainers to NAZIs.
What is sauce for the goose , im afraid is also sauce for the gander....
Can't imagine the current incarnation of the Tories will care to hear any bitterness toward BoJo the incredible right now, given how the membership feels about him (at least until he fails to get us out by 31 October). Cameron should have held out another 6 weeks.
Who cares how much publishers paid for these things and how well they sell? The only thing that might be of interest would be the content, and even that is no guarantee with such books.
Your man crush is embarrassing. You'd say that even if it was 3 pages written in green crayon. Your mate Cameron owns this whole Brexit mess, and that's his legacy,and a fitting one at that.
Your man crush is embarrassing. You'd say that even if it was 3 pages written in green crayon. Your mate Cameron owns this whole Brexit mess, and that's his legacy,and a fitting one at that.
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
He was always a bit eccentric and obsessed with polls and his interpretations of them. But lately, he has gone really ………..
It's the first sign of acceptance of the impending accession of Prime Minister Swinson. Bringer of Liberalism. Breaker of chains.
He decided to call the referendum and owns the whole thing . Transferring his anger on to others is just displacement activity .
Clearly he can’t face reality. He needs to STFU and disappear off back to his shed !
I just don't understand this attitude in the slightest. Say it is a whine that cannot face reality, I think it is a good idea we know if that is what he thinks, even if we think it is wrong. I want to know what Blair's take on his premiership is, what Brown thinks was behind his failure, and so on. Why should we want them to STFU? People moan about Cameron saying nothing and saying things! If he says he is not worried about things, how dare he not be worried, if he is worried then how dare he, its easy for him to worry with his millions.
On our way to Southampton from North Wales today for our cruise tomorrow we encountered ovehead road signs warning that HGV travelling to Europe from the first November will need new documentation
As we drove through Oxford, passed the huge car plants, lots of HGV's were delivering from across the EU in a vivid demonstration of 'just in time' manufacturng
In our hotel I read Jo Swinson affirms she will not support Corbyn under any circumstances as he is unfit to be PM and said the same about Boris
I have backed brexit though I voted remain but unless a deal happens in July I want this madness bringing to a halt with either a referendum or even revoke as supported by Jo
And I said I would not comment before I return from holiday but Jo's rejection of Corbyn, and the evidence I have witnessed today has prompted me to comment
Your man crush is embarrassing. You'd say that even if it was 3 pages written in green crayon. Your mate Cameron owns this whole Brexit mess, and that's his legacy,and a fitting one at that.
Those of us who voted leave are responsible for our own decision. If i were to blame Cameron for my vote that would be awfully cowardly of me. Even if it was a mistake to call one it doesn't mean the voters can pretend the outcome was not theirs to choose.
Arguing about indivuals 'owning' this mess is a nice way of displacing anger. It's presumably why the most electorally successful of our PMs like Thatcher and Blair seem to attract the most hatred - because not only did they do X, but people liked them for it, voted for them en masse, and we cannot be angry at millions of voters, not as satisfyingly, so let's turn dislike of them into hatred instead.
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
I seem to recall you comparing by association leavers with the nationalist fanatics of the Yugoslav civil war.
For many of us that was an equally disreputable and hysterical association to make.
You appear to be 'recalling' this: There is no precedent for such a rupture, outside perhaps the shift to a wartime economy. Possibly the nearest was Czechoslovakia’s division in two in 1993. That was relatively peaceful – certainly by contrast with the bloodier break-ups following the collapse of the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia – and without too much dislocation. Why was this? Well, the two countries entered into mutual negotiations, agreed financial compensation, agreed to honour existing treaties, shared a currency for a bit and allowed free movement between their countries. And then they joined the EU. Oh, the irony!
Instead, Britain is relying on…..well, what exactly?
The inference you drew, and now repeat, was wild, and incorrect.
In contrast, HYUFD claims that we are literally in a civil war.
On our way to Southampton from North Wales today for our cruise tomorrow we encountered ovehead road signs warning that HGV travelling to Europe from the first November will need new documentation
As we drove through Oxford, passed the huge car plants, lots of HGV's were delivering from across the EU in a vivid demonstration of 'just in time' manufacturng
In our hotel I read Jo Swinson affirms she will not support Corbyn under any circumstances as he is unfit to be PM and said the same about Boris
I have backed brexit though I voted remain but unless a deal happens in July I want this madness bringing to a halt with either a referendum or even revoke as supported by Jo
And I said I would not comment before I return from holiday but Jo's rejection of Corbyn, and the evidence I have witnessed today has prompted me to comment
Will catch up in early October
I'm on the same cruise I think so should be a good break to take our minds of bloody brexit.. Though that being said I started in the same position as you and backed the deal all the way any still hope we will get a deal but I would much rather leave with no deal than revoke..
It was probably an organised protest by left-wing groups. Doesn't mean anything in my opinion.
Not m my part of the country, but if you are right it at least indicates that the left are organised there. I'd presume that their organisation is a bit more active than simply waiting for a prime minister to turn up. So I'd conclude that the govt's strategy of winning the election by bagging seats with a long history of voting Labour and which have organised opponents on the ground might run into difficulties.
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
He was always a bit eccentric and obsessed with polls and his interpretations of them. But lately, he has gone really ………..
It's the first sign of acceptance of the impending accession of Prime Minister Swinson. Bringer of Liberalism. Breaker of chains.
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
He was always a bit eccentric and obsessed with polls and his interpretations of them. But lately, he has gone really ………..
It's the first sign of acceptance of the impending accession of Prime Minister Swinson. Bringer of Liberalism. Breaker of chains.
On our way to Southampton from North Wales today for our cruise tomorrow we encountered ovehead road signs warning that HGV travelling to Europe from the first November will need new documentation
As we drove through Oxford, passed the huge car plants, lots of HGV's were delivering from across the EU in a vivid demonstration of 'just in time' manufacturng
In our hotel I read Jo Swinson affirms she will not support Corbyn under any circumstances as he is unfit to be PM and said the same about Boris
I have backed brexit though I voted remain but unless a deal happens in July I want this madness bringing to a halt with either a referendum or even revoke as supported by Jo
And I said I would not comment before I return from holiday but Jo's rejection of Corbyn, and the evidence I have witnessed today has prompted me to comment
Will catch up in early October
I'm on the same cruise I think so should be a good break to take our minds of bloody brexit.. Though that being said I started in the same position as you and backed the deal all the way any still hope we will get a deal but I would much rather leave with no deal than revoke..
Have a lovely holiday
And you and I still back a deal but anything else is not acceptable to me
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
He was always a bit eccentric and obsessed with polls and his interpretations of them. But lately, he has gone really ………..
It's the first sign of acceptance of the impending accession of Prime Minister Swinson. Bringer of Liberalism. Breaker of chains.
Swinson is neither a liberal nor a democrat.
Nor Prime Minister material.
I'm curious, what precisely would qualify someone to be regarded as Prime Minister material? It seems like something very hard to nail down until someone is actually in the role and tested.
ii) With the £350 million on the bus, I think Michael and Boris left the truth at home
He writes that Johnson and Gove behaved “appallingly”. Were they not just fighting to win?
“I say in the book: Boris had never argued for leaving the EU, right? Michael was a very strong Eurosceptic, but someone whom I’d known as this liberal, compassionate, rational Conservative ended up making arguments about Turkey [joining] and being swamped and what have you. They were trashing the government of which they were a part, effectively.”
Gove’s “people in this country have had enough of experts”? Johnson on the threat of Turkey – ie a Muslim country – joining the EU?
“Well, it was ridiculous. There was a moment when I think it was Penny Mordaunt said on a Sunday morning show, ‘We have no power to stop Turkey joining the EU.’ It’s just not true.”
iii)Then there was, I say, Priti Patel, now our home secretary. He levers his eyes heavenward. “I remember her attack that wealthy people didn’t understand the problems of immigration. It felt very like she was put on point to do some attacking of the government and its record. I suppose some people would say all is fair in love and war and political campaigns. I thought there were places Conservatives wouldn’t go against each other. And they did.”
Other observation
Prorogation and taking away the whip have rebounded. I don’t support either. And I don’t think no deal is a good idea’
From those tidbits Cameron sounds like a cry baby to be honest...
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
He was always a bit eccentric and obsessed with polls and his interpretations of them. But lately, he has gone really ………..
It's the first sign of acceptance of the impending accession of Prime Minister Swinson. Bringer of Liberalism. Breaker of chains.
Swinson is neither a liberal nor a democrat.
Nor Prime Minister material.
I'm curious, what precisely would qualify someone to be regarded as Prime Minister material? It seems like something very hard to nail down until someone is actually in the role and tested.
Stand alongside Corbyn and Johnson, and you're most of the way there.
If we've left the EU by 4th November I wouldn't rule out the Commons doing something crazy like electing Grieve as Speaker just as an act of defiance...
If we've left the EU by 4th November I wouldn't rule out the Commons doing something crazy like electing Grieve as Speaker just as an act of defiance...
A partisan speaker will be turfed if the Tories were to get a majority, and they'd definitely stand against Grieve
One of the problems of modern political debate is everyone is happy to call themselves a liberal and define liberalism in terms of their own version of liberalism.
So, Richard, yes, you are a liberal (whatever that means). I am a liberal and so is Jo Swinson.
By the way, ditto for the word democrat - everyone thinks they are a democrat and their interpretation of the word democrat is the only one that is valid.
As for conservative, everyone who claims they are a conservative can't define what that means while everyone who says they aren't a conservative can. Ditto for the word socialist by the way.
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
I seem to recall you comparing by association leavers with the nationalist fanatics of the Yugoslav civil war.
For many of us that was an equally disreputable and hysterical association to make.
The old rule remains true. Once somebody brings the Nazis into the debate they have lost the argument. So that you are HYUFD. He is likely scared witless by the thought of his beloved Brexit and Boris are going to get slaughtered
On our way to Southampton from North Wales today for our cruise tomorrow we encountered ovehead road signs warning that HGV travelling to Europe from the first November will need new documentation
As we drove through Oxford, passed the huge car plants, lots of HGV's were delivering from across the EU in a vivid demonstration of 'just in time' manufacturng
In our hotel I read Jo Swinson affirms she will not support Corbyn under any circumstances as he is unfit to be PM and said the same about Boris
I have backed brexit though I voted remain but unless a deal happens in July I want this madness bringing to a halt with either a referendum or even revoke as supported by Jo
And I said I would not comment before I return from holiday but Jo's rejection of Corbyn, and the evidence I have witnessed today has prompted me to comment
Will catch up in early October
I'm on the same cruise I think so should be a good break to take our minds of bloody brexit.. Though that being said I started in the same position as you and backed the deal all the way any still hope we will get a deal but I would much rather leave with no deal than revoke..
Have a lovely holiday
And you and I still back a deal but anything else is not acceptable to me
Agreed.. I hope every day there will be some breakthrough on the deal.. Or that parliament would see sense and just approve May's deal..
I just wouldn't accept not leaving so if they don't then I have no choice but to support no deal
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
He was always a bit eccentric and obsessed with polls and his interpretations of them. But lately, he has gone really ………..
It's the first sign of acceptance of the impending accession of Prime Minister Swinson. Bringer of Liberalism. Breaker of chains.
Swinson is neither a liberal nor a democrat.
Nor Prime Minister material.
Hasn't stopped Boris Johnson.
When Boris steps down in 2027, leaving behind a rip-roaring economy and a One Nation Conservative party with a majority of 122, you'll finally have to concede he was "OK....."
If we've left the EU by 4th November I wouldn't rule out the Commons doing something crazy like electing Grieve as Speaker just as an act of defiance...
Would be excellent to see Harriet get the nod. She will be fantastic and do a great job. 👍
One of the problems of modern political debate is everyone is happy to call themselves a liberal and define liberalism in terms of their own version of liberalism.
So, Richard, yes, you are a liberal (whatever that means). I am a liberal and so is Jo Swinson.
By the way, ditto for the word democrat - everyone thinks they are a democrat and their interpretation of the word democrat is the only one that is valid.
As for conservative, everyone who claims they are a conservative can't define what that means while everyone who says they aren't a conservative can. Ditto for the word socialist by the way.
Haha, that's pretty astute. Yes, I think I can give a working definition of both and I am neither.
On our way to Southampton from North Wales today for our cruise tomorrow we encountered ovehead road signs warning that HGV travelling to Europe from the first November will need new documentation
As we drove through Oxford, passed the huge car plants, lots of HGV's were delivering from across the EU in a vivid demonstration of 'just in time' manufacturng
In our hotel I read Jo Swinson affirms she will not support Corbyn under any circumstances as he is unfit to be PM and said the same about Boris
I have backed brexit though I voted remain but unless a deal happens in July I want this madness bringing to a halt with either a referendum or even revoke as supported by Jo
And I said I would not comment before I return from holiday but Jo's rejection of Corbyn, and the evidence I have witnessed today has prompted me to comment
On our way to Southampton from North Wales today for our cruise tomorrow we encountered ovehead road signs warning that HGV travelling to Europe from the first November will need new documentation
As we drove through Oxford, passed the huge car plants, lots of HGV's were delivering from across the EU in a vivid demonstration of 'just in time' manufacturng
In our hotel I read Jo Swinson affirms she will not support Corbyn under any circumstances as he is unfit to be PM and said the same about Boris
I have backed brexit though I voted remain but unless a deal happens in July I want this madness bringing to a halt with either a referendum or even revoke as supported by Jo
And I said I would not comment before I return from holiday but Jo's rejection of Corbyn, and the evidence I have witnessed today has prompted me to comment
Will catch up in early October
Have a nice holiday! The news is terrible on a daily basis at the moment, so forget about it and enjoy the moment!
If we've left the EU by 4th November I wouldn't rule out the Commons doing something crazy like electing Grieve as Speaker just as an act of defiance...
Would be excellent to see Harriet get the nod. She will be fantastic and do a great job. 👍
I'm hoping it's Lindsay.
The Commons needs someone pleasant, sensible, down to earth and non-partisan if its to start recovering its reputation from the ridiculous Speaker Bercow.
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
He was always a bit eccentric and obsessed with polls and his interpretations of them. But lately, he has gone really ………..
It's the first sign of acceptance of the impending accession of Prime Minister Swinson. Bringer of Liberalism. Breaker of chains.
Swinson is neither a liberal nor a democrat.
Nor Prime Minister material.
Hasn't stopped Boris Johnson.
When Boris steps down in 2027, leaving behind a rip-roaring economy and a One Nation Conservative party with a majority of 122, you'll finally have to concede he was "OK....."
If No Deal Brexit happens by nefarious means you might be counting your chickens on that one!
On our way to Southampton from North Wales today for our cruise tomorrow we encountered ovehead road signs warning that HGV travelling to Europe from the first November will need new documentation
As we drove through Oxford, passed the huge car plants, lots of HGV's were delivering from across the EU in a vivid demonstration of 'just in time' manufacturng
In our hotel I read Jo Swinson affirms she will not support Corbyn under any circumstances as he is unfit to be PM and said the same about Boris
I have backed brexit though I voted remain but unless a deal happens in July I want this madness bringing to a halt with either a referendum or even revoke as supported by Jo
And I said I would not comment before I return from holiday but Jo's rejection of Corbyn, and the evidence I have witnessed today has prompted me to comment
Will catch up in early October
Have a nice holiday! The news is terrible on a daily basis at the moment, so forget about it and enjoy the moment!
I intended to do so but it does make it real and we need a deal
On our way to Southampton from North Wales today for our cruise tomorrow we encountered ovehead road signs warning that HGV travelling to Europe from the first November will need new documentation
As we drove through Oxford, passed the huge car plants, lots of HGV's were delivering from across the EU in a vivid demonstration of 'just in time' manufacturng
In our hotel I read Jo Swinson affirms she will not support Corbyn under any circumstances as he is unfit to be PM and said the same about Boris
I have backed brexit though I voted remain but unless a deal happens in July I want this madness bringing to a halt with either a referendum or even revoke as supported by Jo
And I said I would not comment before I return from holiday but Jo's rejection of Corbyn, and the evidence I have witnessed today has prompted me to comment
If we've left the EU by 4th November I wouldn't rule out the Commons doing something crazy like electing Grieve as Speaker just as an act of defiance...
Would be excellent to see Harriet get the nod. She will be fantastic and do a great job. 👍
I'm hoping it's Lindsay.
The Commons needs someone pleasant, sensible, down to earth and non-partisan if its to start recovering its reputation from the ridiculous Speaker Bercow.
Bercow has been brilliant at stopping the government getting away with blue murder. He was a man for his time.
@HYUFD wrote this on a previous thread - “We are in a domestic civil war with diehard Remainers, there is no more room for appeasement as there was not in 1940 either”.
Equating people who want to Remain in the EU with Nazis is, frankly, a disgraceful statement for him to make.
He was always a bit eccentric and obsessed with polls and his interpretations of them. But lately, he has gone really ………..
It's the first sign of acceptance of the impending accession of Prime Minister Swinson. Bringer of Liberalism. Breaker of chains.
Swinson is neither a liberal nor a democrat.
Nor Prime Minister material.
Hasn't stopped Boris Johnson.
When Boris steps down in 2027, leaving behind a rip-roaring economy and a One Nation Conservative party with a majority of 122, you'll finally have to concede he was "OK....."
If No Deal Brexit happens by nefarious means you might be counting your chickens on that one!
I'll probably be eating my chickens. The last of the non-chlorinated ones....!
Comments
Given that Churchill proposed a kind of 'United States of Europe' in 1946 someone's got profoundly the wrong idea about the pro-EU side. If HYUFD and Johnson both idolise Churchill they've got rather strange ways of showing it.
"Research on postmen's testicle warmth wins Ig Nobel"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49687538
Whoever awarded the research grant deserves the sack.
(There are also a multitude of jokes about a postman emptying his sack, but I'll leave them dangling)
https://twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/1172543002683854849?s=20
I've been threatened by people online before (a brexiter, but I don't want to make too much of that fact because you get nutters on all sides). They started seriously to try to track me down and found out where my partner worked. When that kind of thing happens to you it's startling and it tends to make you more wary about what /might/ just be idle drunken threats.
So I am really not tolerant of threats. If I were in charge of this place, I'd have suspended them for a few weeks giving a clear reason why it was happening and that they can be welcomed back if they can just control their worst impulses. I thought that they would be removed for good, but it seems that actually nothing has happened at all.
I have no wish to silence people per se, but there does come a point where it starts to become the least worst option. Not for holding unpleasant views (that's just perspective), nor for insults (I would certainly be a hypocrite if I thought that). But things went beyond that.
For many of us that was an equally disreputable and hysterical association to make.
And you might be allowed to have cous cous of a Sunday. If you behave.
This is the conversation I had with another_richard about the Tories being unpopular oop North, because of Thatcher and the miners' strike.
another_richard
From TSE's previous piece:
As a bona fide Northerner I still see and hear references from Labour voters to what they see as the evil perpetrated by Lady Thatcher. The miners’ strike is still mentioned more than 35 years after the event, usually as a reason not to vote Tory.
Mentioned by whom ?
We're in an era where Hallam is Labour and Derbyshire NE is Conservative.
Just as there are differences between regions there are differences within regions.
Me:
Some voters we canvassed in 2015 in Pudsey and other West Yorkshire marginals.
One of them couldn't have been more than 25 years old and he said his Dad would chuck him out of the house if he voted Tory because of the miners' strike.
I heard the same from a friend who was canvassing in Stocksbridge in 2017.
The Extinction Rebellion protest in Sheffield on Monday had an anti Thatcher banner which was ironic as she was supposed to have destroyed the coal industry, something I thought the Extinction Rebellion would have supported.
General reception to Mrs May was more... Meh.
And in any event, the mass emigration might provide a welcome boost to the economy of a newly independent Scotland ?
(Going back to university to study law)
But is Ms Swinson really that kind of liberal? Somehow I can't see her wearing sandals (at least not since her Start-Rite ones in infant school).
I would not have predicted it.
i)He calls Michael Gove “mendacious” in the book.
ii) With the £350 million on the bus, I think Michael and Boris left the truth at home
He writes that Johnson and Gove behaved “appallingly”. Were they not just fighting to win?
“I say in the book: Boris had never argued for leaving the EU, right? Michael was a very strong Eurosceptic, but someone whom I’d known as this liberal, compassionate, rational Conservative ended up making arguments about Turkey [joining] and being swamped and what have you. They were trashing the government of which they were a part, effectively.”
Gove’s “people in this country have had enough of experts”? Johnson on the threat of Turkey – ie a Muslim country – joining the EU?
“Well, it was ridiculous. There was a moment when I think it was Penny Mordaunt said on a Sunday morning show, ‘We have no power to stop Turkey joining the EU.’ It’s just not true.”
iii)Then there was, I say, Priti Patel, now our home secretary. He levers his eyes heavenward. “I remember her attack that wealthy people didn’t understand the problems of immigration. It felt very like she was put on point to do some attacking of the government and its record. I suppose some people would say all is fair in love and war and political campaigns. I thought there were places Conservatives wouldn’t go against each other. And they did.”
Other observation
Prorogation and taking away the whip have rebounded. I don’t support either. And I don’t think no deal is a good idea’
Unless Corbyn gets in. In which case there will indeed be mass migration...to Ireland...from both...
I actually feel sorry for the likes of Cameron, Blair and Thatcher as no matter how much blame for things they do deserve, they get so much undeserved or hysterical levels of crap as well. It's only a little sorry though, given they did ask for the positions they held, but even so.
Best of luck with your legal studies.
As you can see, constitutional law can be very exciting!
The place where I grew up is hugely left wing. I'd be thought of as right wing there because I believe in a mixed economy and that capitalism as brought bounteous wonders to our world. But it hasn't escaped me that the left are spot on in some things, and the wringing injustice of how rewards are allocated -- I'm talking jobs as much as resources -- is one of them.
Boris Johnson isn't even close to being the most talented person in cabinet, let alone the country. The fact that he got to Downing Street -- and we all know how -- is neon sign that something is deeply wrong.
Paging @ydoethur
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/13/for-the-record-signs-of-trouble-before-david-cameron-book-hits-shelves
He decided to call the referendum and owns the whole thing . Transferring his anger on to others is just displacement activity .
Clearly he can’t face reality. He needs to STFU and disappear off back to his shed !
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/speaker-house-commons-candidates
Man up and own it yourself as well, Dave has.
As we drove through Oxford, passed the huge car plants, lots of HGV's were delivering from across the EU in a vivid demonstration of 'just in time' manufacturng
In our hotel I read Jo Swinson affirms she will not support Corbyn under any circumstances as he is unfit to be PM and said the same about Boris
I have backed brexit though I voted remain but unless a deal happens in July I want this madness bringing to a halt with either a referendum or even revoke as supported by Jo
And I said I would not comment before I return from holiday but Jo's rejection of Corbyn, and the evidence I have witnessed today has prompted me to comment
Will catch up in early October
Arguing about indivuals 'owning' this mess is a nice way of displacing anger. It's presumably why the most electorally successful of our PMs like Thatcher and Blair seem to attract the most hatred - because not only did they do X, but people liked them for it, voted for them en masse, and we cannot be angry at millions of voters, not as satisfyingly, so let's turn dislike of them into hatred instead.
There is no precedent for such a rupture, outside perhaps the shift to a wartime economy. Possibly the nearest was Czechoslovakia’s division in two in 1993. That was relatively peaceful – certainly by contrast with the bloodier break-ups following the collapse of the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia – and without too much dislocation. Why was this? Well, the two countries entered into mutual negotiations, agreed financial compensation, agreed to honour existing treaties, shared a currency for a bit and allowed free movement between their countries. And then they joined the EU. Oh, the irony!
Instead, Britain is relying on…..well, what exactly?
The inference you drew, and now repeat, was wild, and incorrect.
In contrast, HYUFD claims that we are literally in a civil war.
Have a lovely holiday
Maybe you'll be able to issue litigation agianst Boris Johnson in due course.
So, Richard, yes, you are a liberal (whatever that means). I am a liberal and so is Jo Swinson.
By the way, ditto for the word democrat - everyone thinks they are a democrat and their interpretation of the word democrat is the only one that is valid.
As for conservative, everyone who claims they are a conservative can't define what that means while everyone who says they aren't a conservative can. Ditto for the word socialist by the way.
Only joking!
Good luck at the University Gallowgate!
I just wouldn't accept not leaving so if they don't then I have no choice but to support no deal
The Gina Miller case was excellent in terms of seeing how the judges dissected the QCs questions . I’m sure this case won’t disappoint .
It’s being live streamed which is good news .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJR8r1-LgZY
The Commons needs someone pleasant, sensible, down to earth and non-partisan if its to start recovering its reputation from the ridiculous Speaker Bercow.