I've never forgiven Grieve for his ludicrous behaviour in trying to stop the Guardian from publishing Prince Charles' letters to ministers. He spent millions of our money in the courts because they were so sensitive it would threaten Charles' future as king. The letter were published and can anyone remember anything that was in them.
"The agri-food sector [in Ireland] will be hardest hit... disruption to key sectors and job losses are likely to result in protests and direct action with road blockages."
Sounds like Ireland needs a deal
They are prepared to risk it.
Plenty of leavers and Tories are prepared too. Boris Johnson I don't think is amongst that number.
Thing is he's been one of the very few ministers who's been prepared to face the media over the last week. Obviously this evening has been something of a car crash, but up until now I'd felt he'd been doing a relatively good job of defending the indefensible.
Had been miles better than Nigel Evans, whose the other one who's been sent out to bat on this seam-friendly wicket.
1. No single smoking gun here but a lot of smouldering ones. 2. If we do end up with No Deal, it's going to be very hard now for the Government to plead innocence. 3. The disruption/civil unrest stuff is worrying. If you were the Real IRA or the Revolutionary Trots of Sydenham or whoever, I imagine it must be quite useful to have the Government enumerate its vulnerabilities like this. 4. There's a lot of "life will get a bit worse" in here. It only takes one of those to flare up. Britain collectively lost its shit a few years ago when petrol prices went up a bit... this envisages situations worse than that.
I think it's a lot worse than that.
Just to pick a couple of examples, look at the parts about medicines for veterinary use, and about adult social care.
Both of those imply there could be major problems, and don't appear to suggest any kind of strategy for dealing with them.
"The agri-food sector [in Ireland] will be hardest hit... disruption to key sectors and job losses are likely to result in protests and direct action with road blockages."
Sounds like Ireland needs a deal
They are prepared to risk it.
Plenty of leavers and Tories are prepared too. Boris Johnson I don't think is amongst that number.
That's where we disagree - I don't think he wants it, but I think he has gone too far down that route to pull back, and is too cowardly to do so in the face of BXP and ERG fury.
I think its nailed on some sort of WA will be presented after the QS and the PD will be removed and left to the next government to sort. The WA will pass imo.
Britain collectively lost its shit a few years ago when petrol prices went up a bit... this envisages situations worse than that.
Far more serious than anything NI related that one. Opinion will turn very very quickly against Brexit if fuel shoots up to £1.50 a litre or more.
"... there will likely be significant electricity price increases for consumers (business and domestic), with associated wider economic and political impacts."
1. No single smoking gun here but a lot of smouldering ones. 2. If we do end up with No Deal, it's going to be very hard now for the Government to plead innocence. 3. The disruption/civil unrest stuff is worrying. If you were the Real IRA or the Revolutionary Trots of Sydenham or whoever, I imagine it must be quite useful to have the Government enumerate its vulnerabilities like this. 4. There's a lot of "life will get a bit worse" in here. It only takes one of those to flare up. Britain collectively lost its shit a few years ago when petrol prices went up a bit... this envisages situations worse than that.
The right-wing, Leaver, Press will assert, LOUDLY, that it’s all the fault of the EU.
Thing is he's been one of the very few ministers who's been prepared to face the media over the last week. Obviously this evening has been something of a car crash, but up until now I'd felt he'd been doing a relatively good job of defending the indefensible.
Had been miles better than Nigel Evans, whose the other one who's been sent out to bat on this seam-friendly wicket.
It would need a lot of tactical voting on the remain side and totally clueless voting on the Brexit side, but I think 10 to 1 on Labour is getting close to good value.
Was the government also required to provide the legal advice they received on prorogation?
They wont have received any legal advice, it's a standard procedure. The question is whether they fibbed about the reasons Ergo any legal advice would be about 'lying to hmq' - you dont take that sort of legal advice
So reduced choice of food and prices up, increased petrol and electricity prices.
Vulnerable groups ie the poor hit hardest
Marvellous.
Meanwhile Boris’s mates who have shorted the pound will make a killing.
What was that about Brexit being revenge against the elite?
Document does not seem to mention agriculture, unless I’ve missed it.
The real stupidity about all this is the EU has constantly asked us to come up with solutions to the problems our decision to leave would cause. We have clearly identified the problems but seem devoid of any meaningful solutions after two and a half years.
What have we been doing? Spending all the time shouting from the rooftops that the result "must be respected" but doing nothing to mitigate the consequences of our own actions.
I think its nailed on some sort of WA will be presented after the QS and the PD will be removed and left to the next government to sort. The WA will pass imo.
With the backstop still in the WA? No chance. And no chance the EU will agree to remove it. Still stalemate.
So reduced choice of food and prices up, increased petrol and electricity prices.
Vulnerable groups ie the poor hit hardest
Marvellous.
Meanwhile Boris’s mates who have shorted the pound will make a killing.
What was that about Brexit being revenge against the elite?
Document does not seem to mention agriculture, unless I’ve missed it.
Is that it? All the 'sensible' people have been telling us it's going to be a disaster, a calamity that cannot be countenanced.
I often chat politics with a civil servant friend. He's a brexiteer (so make of that what you want) but he's fairly relaxed about it all, isn't too alarmed by no deal. He works with people who've worked for 30-40 years and their attitude is we've seen it all before.
I am a little nervous and it should be remembered that a single match can cause a house fire. But I'm more inclined to see no deal as a potentially long term chronic condition than a cardiac arrest.
I think its nailed on some sort of WA will be presented after the QS and the PD will be removed and left to the next government to sort. The WA will pass imo.
Out of interest why do you think that? It needs enough Labour MPs to counter the ERG spartans and the Griever gang, possibly the DUP, and adding up all the other opposition MPs bar a few handful of independents. Even with the PD removed and left to the next government, whoever that is, so enough Labour MPs really want to see Brexit done? Under Boris? Especially as Labour policy is deliberately designed to keep Labour leavers onside by promising them that a better deal than May or Boris will come and be able to be voted on in a referendum, meaning only anti-referendum MPs can be tempted.
I'm curious at such continued optimism over a WA. The number of Tories opposed seems to go up the more the EU say they thing it is ok, and the more Labour MPs who say they might consider it - because that means it must be terrible.
I think its nailed on some sort of WA will be presented after the QS and the PD will be removed and left to the next government to sort. The WA will pass imo.
Doubt it. There might be a few more Labour votes, but even fewer Tories.
I think its nailed on some sort of WA will be presented after the QS and the PD will be removed and left to the next government to sort. The WA will pass imo.
Out of interest why do you think that? It needs enough Labour MPs to counter the ERG spartans and the Griever gang, possibly the DUP, and adding up all the other opposition MPs bar a few handful of independents. Even with the PD removed and left to the next government, whoever that is, so enough Labour MPs really want to see Brexit done? Under Boris? Especially as Labour policy is deliberately designed to keep Labour leavers onside by promising them that a better deal than May or Boris will come and be able to be voted on in a referendum, meaning only anti-referendum MPs can be tempted.
I'm curious at such continued optimism over a WA.
Needs maybe 30 labour. He'd get them. Secure Brexit avoid no deal cliff edge. Itll be a WA with 'something' to sticking plaster NI
I think its nailed on some sort of WA will be presented after the QS and the PD will be removed and left to the next government to sort. The WA will pass imo.
Out of interest why do you think that? It needs enough Labour MPs to counter the ERG spartans and the Griever gang, possibly the DUP, and adding up all the other opposition MPs bar a few handful of independents. Even with the PD removed and left to the next government, whoever that is, so enough Labour MPs really want to see Brexit done? Under Boris? Especially as Labour policy is deliberately designed to keep Labour leavers onside by promising them that a better deal than May or Boris will come and be able to be voted on in a referendum, meaning only anti-referendum MPs can be tempted.
I'm curious at such continued optimism over a WA.
Needs maybe 30 labour. He'd get them. Secure Brexit avoid no deal cliff edge. Itll be a WA with 'something' to sticking plaster NI
30 would not be enough (as 5 voted with it before), it would still need maybe another 10, and that assuming no more Tories vote against, which is improbable especially the ones who have subcontracted their vote to the DUP.
So reduced choice of food and prices up, increased petrol and electricity prices.
Vulnerable groups ie the poor hit hardest
Marvellous.
Meanwhile Boris’s mates who have shorted the pound will make a killing.
What was that about Brexit being revenge against the elite?
Document does not seem to mention agriculture, unless I’ve missed it.
Is that it? All the 'sensible' people have been telling us it's going to be a disaster, a calamity that cannot be countenanced.
I often chat politics with a civil servant friend. He's a brexiteer (so make of that what you want) but he's fairly relaxed about it all, isn't too alarmed by no deal. He works with people who've worked for 30-40 years and their attitude is we've seen it all before.
I am a little nervous and it should be remembered that a single match can cause a house fire. But I'm more inclined to see no deal as a potentially long term chronic condition than a cardiac arrest.
Have you actually read paragraph 6 on medical supplies? Don't you think it's a cause for concern? (That is a problem that will start on Day 1, and continue for at least 3 months, according to the document.)
Was the government also required to provide the legal advice they received on prorogation?
They wont have received any legal advice, it's a standard procedure. The question is whether they fibbed about the reasons Ergo any legal advice would be about 'lying to hmq' - you dont take that sort of legal advice
The fact you continually moan about Brexit and cite the damage to vulnerable people whilst spending six years slavishly supporting Cameron and Osborne - now even calling leave voters suckers - you're beyond parody my friend.
I often chat politics with a civil servant friend. He's a brexiteer (so make of that what you want) but he's fairly relaxed about it all, isn't too alarmed by no deal. He works with people who've worked for 30-40 years and their attitude is we've seen it all before.
They might have seen it all before, but not all at the same time.
The fact you continually moan about Brexit and cite the damage to vulnerable people whilst spending six years slavishly supporting Cameron and Osborne - now even calling leave voters suckers - you're beyond parody my friend.
So reduced choice of food and prices up, increased petrol and electricity prices.
Vulnerable groups ie the poor hit hardest
Marvellous.
Meanwhile Boris’s mates who have shorted the pound will make a killing.
What was that about Brexit being revenge against the elite?
Document does not seem to mention agriculture, unless I’ve missed it.
Is that it? All the 'sensible' people have been telling us it's going to be a disaster, a calamity that cannot be countenanced.
I often chat politics with a civil servant friend. He's a brexiteer (so make of that what you want) but he's fairly relaxed about it all, isn't too alarmed by no deal. He works with people who've worked for 30-40 years and their attitude is we've seen it all before.
I am a little nervous and it should be remembered that a single match can cause a house fire. But I'm more inclined to see no deal as a potentially long term chronic condition than a cardiac arrest.
Have you actually read paragraph 6 on medical supplies? Don't you think it's a cause for concern? (That is a problem that will start on Day 1, and continue for at least 3 months, according to the document.)
My son couldn't get his meds today and my wife had to wait days last month for her meds - despite me ringing half the pharmacists in North Essex.
Name me one party leader in the last thirty years who has done anything with their life outside of politics that was any use to anyone but themselves?
Sir Nick Clegg is of use to Facebook.
Thatcher was a scientist (and just meets the 30 year cutoff)
Her degree was but I don’t think she used it before doing a law degree
She was an industrial chemist
Yes, she worked as research chemist for a few years, famously got knocked back for a post at ICI for being too opinionated.
Aye. Opinionated. That was Maggie right enough.
I once did a 48 sheet poster for ICI. A simple concept. A can of tartan paint with the headline "When It Happens We'll Be There First'. The management decided this was too risky for a company like ICI because they might not be so after much soul searching it became " If it happens we'll be there". The exasperated agency tried to explain that such a change lost the point of the ad and lost the account shortly after.
ICI chemicals division is not a good idea for those with an opinion!
So reduced choice of food and prices up, increased petrol and electricity prices.
Vulnerable groups ie the poor hit hardest
Marvellous.
Meanwhile Boris’s mates who have shorted the pound will make a killing.
What was that about Brexit being revenge against the elite?
Document does not seem to mention agriculture, unless I’ve missed it.
Is that it? All the 'sensible' people have been telling us it's going to be a disaster, a calamity that cannot be countenanced.
I often chat politics with a civil servant friend. He's a brexiteer (so make of that what you want) but he's fairly relaxed about it all, isn't too alarmed by no deal. He works with people who've worked for 30-40 years and their attitude is we've seen it all before.
I am a little nervous and it should be remembered that a single match can cause a house fire. But I'm more inclined to see no deal as a potentially long term chronic condition than a cardiac arrest.
Have you actually read paragraph 6 on medical supplies? Don't you think it's a cause for concern? (That is a problem that will start on Day 1, and continue for at least 3 months, according to the document.)
My son couldn't get his meds today and my wife had to wait days last month for her meds - despite me ringing half the pharmacists in North Essex.
Fecking Brexit eh?
oh wait - only a problem if Brexit can be blamed.
I had to go twice to get my monthly repeat prescription medicine. No convincing reason was given. Is shortage already developing ?
After Yellowhammer: What are the odds that the UK WILL NOT leave the EU at all ?
75:25. It's under assault from so many fronts, and its best chance now is either a clever remain plan backfires, or the Tories win a comfortable majority in an election. But the remainer plans have worked reasonably well so far, and the Tories and BXP could easily cock things up even if percentage wise they should succeed.
Availability of petrol and diesel is something to which Governments are hypersensitive since the events of 2000 illustrated how quickly disruption in supply can cause huge problems.
I suspect we will see huge efforts by the Government to keep petrol and diesel supplies moving but the slightest hint of problems will cause panic buying which in turn will lead to shortages.
I well remember after 2000 people get their fuel tanks full for months after the protests ended fearing more disruption.
I think its nailed on some sort of WA will be presented after the QS and the PD will be removed and left to the next government to sort. The WA will pass imo.
And if this was the plan - gosh that 'Dom and BoJo' combo!
Name me one party leader in the last thirty years who has done anything with their life outside of politics that was any use to anyone but themselves?
Sir Nick Clegg is of use to Facebook.
Thatcher was a scientist (and just meets the 30 year cutoff)
Her degree was but I don’t think she used it before doing a law degree
She was an industrial chemist
Yes, she worked as research chemist for a few years, famously got knocked back for a post at ICI for being too opinionated.
Aye. Opinionated. That was Maggie right enough.
I once did a 48 sheet poster for ICI. A simple concept. A can of tartan paint with the headline "When It Happens We'll Be There First'. The management decided this was too risky for a company like ICI because they might not be so after much soul searching it became " If it happens we'll be there". The exasperated agency tried to explain that such a change lost the point of the ad and lost the account shortly after.
ICI chemicals division is not a good idea for those with an opinion!
Roger and Maggie: both too good for state-owned conglomerate.
No one's going to convince me that there aren't filing cabinets worth of detail behind this that has not been shared.
It is surprising that a room full of people had to be working so hard to produce a six-page document with one paragrph redacted.
Well yes if that is the extent of our no deal planning then five pages is pretty damning. But it really doesn’t matter because no deal will bring the Eu into line because it’s so terrible but will cause us only bumps in the road. Wake up Britain you’re led by a lying bastard who hasn’t got a clue what he is doing.
Probably not! But they do a similar cheese (Perl Wen) which has fairly widespread distribution... certainly Waitrose, I think I've seen it in regional Co-ops too.
Is the redacted bit about refineries? Gilts? Forex?
Agriculture?
Agri is in para 7
No, that's food supply.
Where's the impact on UK farming and fishing industries?
You're right. Perhaps the redacted part is a projection for bulk foodstuff prices, which is redacted because of its impact on the futures market for those commodities.
I thought the Brexit vote split 50/50 amongst the low income. It was the old who voted for Brexit in numbers.
The poorest households, with incomes of less than £20,000 per year, were much more likely to support leaving the EU than the wealthiest households, as were the unemployed, people in low-skilled and manual occupations, people who feel that their financial situation has worsened, and those with no qualifications.
So reduced choice of food and prices up, increased petrol and electricity prices.
Vulnerable groups ie the poor hit hardest
Marvellous.
Meanwhile Boris’s mates who have shorted the pound will make a killing.
What was that about Brexit being revenge against the elite?
Document does not seem to mention agriculture, unless I’ve missed it.
Is that it? All the 'sensible' people have been telling us it's going to be a disaster, a calamity that cannot be countenanced.
I often chat politics with a civil servant friend. He's a brexiteer (so make of that what you want) but he's fairly relaxed about it all, isn't too alarmed by no deal. He works with people who've worked for 30-40 years and their attitude is we've seen it all before.
I am a little nervous and it should be remembered that a single match can cause a house fire. But I'm more inclined to see no deal as a potentially long term chronic condition than a cardiac arrest.
Have you actually read paragraph 6 on medical supplies? Don't you think it's a cause for concern? (That is a problem that will start on Day 1, and continue for at least 3 months, according to the document.)
My son couldn't get his meds today and my wife had to wait days last month for her meds - despite me ringing half the pharmacists in North Essex.
Fecking Brexit eh?
oh wait - only a problem if Brexit can be blamed.
It will be. Everything from a bad olympics, floods, listeria outbreak, hysteria outbreaks, power cuts, libor rate misspelling, earthquakes, meteorites, stalactites and stalagmites* And you know, when they bring the tea in on a tray, knock a door and drop it, brexit will be blamed.
And quite rightly too. No problem with any of that.
Comments
Something about helping farmers?
Just to pick a couple of examples, look at the parts about medicines for veterinary use, and about adult social care.
Both of those imply there could be major problems, and don't appear to suggest any kind of strategy for dealing with them.
Vulnerable groups ie the poor hit hardest
Marvellous.
Meanwhile Boris’s mates who have shorted the pound will make a killing.
What was that about Brexit being revenge against the elite?
Document does not seem to mention agriculture, unless I’ve missed it.
If only Jezza would do that for some of his policies.
https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/1171864512527511552
https://www.etoncollege.com/currentfees.aspx
Ergo any legal advice would be about 'lying to hmq' - you dont take that sort of legal advice
What have we been doing? Spending all the time shouting from the rooftops that the result "must be respected" but doing nothing to mitigate the consequences of our own actions.
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1171864936567463937
I often chat politics with a civil servant friend. He's a brexiteer (so make of that what you want) but he's fairly relaxed about it all, isn't too alarmed by no deal. He works with people who've worked for 30-40 years and their attitude is we've seen it all before.
I am a little nervous and it should be remembered that a single match can cause a house fire. But I'm more inclined to see no deal as a potentially long term chronic condition than a cardiac arrest.
I'm curious at such continued optimism over a WA. The number of Tories opposed seems to go up the more the EU say they thing it is ok, and the more Labour MPs who say they might consider it - because that means it must be terrible.
Itll be a WA with 'something' to sticking plaster NI
No one's going to convince me that there aren't filing cabinets worth of detail behind this that has not been shared.
I said an external supplier was a 'cock juggling thunder c***' which apparently just sounds so wrong when I say it.
I do note that the water scare has now been debunked.
She'd probably have taken the Flake out of a 99, to reduce overheads, if she could.
1-0 to EU farmers.
That was a game-changer for me. Because he is very able and I believed him. And if we can eat we can survive and prosper.
Gove. Head of No Deal Planning. He has our backs.
https://twitter.com/RosamundUrwin/status/1171864228879372289?s=19
Fecking Brexit eh?
oh wait - only a problem if Brexit can be blamed.
What are the odds that the UK WILL NOT leave the EU at all ?
ICI chemicals division is not a good idea for those with an opinion!
1) Draft
2) Provisional
3) Please check for typos
4) Pending review
https://order-order.com/2019/09/11/top-labour-figures-attend-rally-stuffed-anti-semites/
#LazyStereotyping
Where's the impact on UK farming and fishing industries?
I suspect we will see huge efforts by the Government to keep petrol and diesel supplies moving but the slightest hint of problems will cause panic buying which in turn will lead to shortages.
I well remember after 2000 people get their fuel tanks full for months after the protests ended fearing more disruption.
Is there even a word for guys like that?
'IHateAntiSemitesButIWillVoteForABrexiteerWhoRepeatedAWellKnownAntiSemiticTrope'
https://twitter.com/_Andalucia_/status/1171870851026882561
https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/brexit-vote-explained-poverty-low-skills-and-lack-opportunities
On the plus side, the delays at coastal ports should mean proper Brie is already nice and ripe by the time it gets to the supermarkets.
And quite rightly too. No problem with any of that.
*yes has been going on that long.