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  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Kinnock was a tutor for the WEA, he will have made a real difference to some too
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,710
    If they downgrade the to-be-released version to Operation Greenhammer we might learn a lot
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    edited September 2019
    AndyJS said:

    The tribalism of Remainers and Leavers is getting a bit tiresome now. We know they're never going to agree on anything.

    It is the media stoking all of this. Especially the Brexit supporting media. They perhaps need to ratchet up before finally walking away from supporting the biggest non-war destruction on an advanced economy, I can think policymakers have proactively implemented? No Deal Brexit will wreck the economy.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    AndyJS said:

    The tribalism of Remainers and Leavers is getting a bit tiresome now. We know they're never going to agree on anything.

    Agreed. And whilst I'd wish to remain in the EU, I thought Ken Clarke the other night stood out like a beacon in the darkness. A man prepared to compromise on his own views in order to land a soft Brexit.
  • Kwasi Kwarteng drowning on the Andrew Neil Show. Eton really is quite the waste of money, isn't it?

    He's on a hiding to nothing. Pity that the PM isn't sat there.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    AndyJS said:

    The New York Times has deleted a tweet they posted earlier today about 9/11 and replaced it with another one. The original tweet said the following:

    "18 years have passed since airplanes took aim and brought down the World Trade Center... where more than 2000 people died".

    https://twitter.com/lisa27435743/status/1171765390814396416

    Yes, driving through Ohio today, some pro-Trump talk station was making a lot of this.
  • nichomar said:

    Name me one party leader in the last thirty years who has done anything with their life outside of politics that was any use to anyone but themselves?

    Paddy ashdown
    Tony Blair was in a band
    Though he did say that his one contribution to rock music was deciding to give it up.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Kinnock was a tutor for the WEA, he will have made a real difference to some too

    It was an attempt to talk about something different and to a degree has succeeded 😊
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    nichomar said:

    Kinnock was a tutor for the WEA, he will have made a real difference to some too

    It was an attempt to talk about something different and to a degree has succeeded 😊
    ;)
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856
    Spare a thought for her majesty.
  • Kwasi Kwarteng drowning on the Andrew Neil Show. Eton really is quite the waste of money, isn't it?

    He's on a hiding to nothing. Pity that the PM isn't sat there.
    So far:

    Judges might not be impartial
    Boris doesn't have to obey the law

    Stellar performance.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Kwasi Kwarteng drowning on the Andrew Neil Show. Eton really is quite the waste of money, isn't it?

    Depends what you want if for I guess. Apparently it is not making bright people out of dullards, but it does seem to provide boundless self confidence that, along with a bit of cash, helps propel such people to very high positions indeed. Money well spent for the families I guess.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237

    It makes more sense of that bizarre speech in front of the police last week.
    The schtick is going to wear thin pretty quickly.
    If he lasts that long.

    Yes it does and it will - in fact it is - but the nightmare would be that he nevertheless manages to ride a softhead populist wave to an overall majority. Let us pray that he doesn't.

    We're getting the worst of both worlds in a sense. Like any comedian he is losing it as he ages. He's trying to secure that last big tour before he gets rumbled - which would be fine if the 'tour' was not 5 years running the country.

    If we HAD to have had Freddie Starr as PM it would have been preferable to have had him when he was slaying the palladium rather than when he was reduced to pretending to have eaten a hamster.
  • Spare a thought for her majesty.

    "We is not amused!" :lol:
  • D
    kle4 said:

    Kwasi Kwarteng drowning on the Andrew Neil Show. Eton really is quite the waste of money, isn't it?

    Depends what you want if for I guess. Apparently it is not making bright people out of dullards, but it does seem to provide boundless self confidence that, along with a bit of cash, helps propel such people to very high positions indeed. Money well spent for the families I guess.
    The usual suspects will soon be along to defend Eton for being “aspirational”
  • Spare a thought for her majesty.

    "We is not amused!" :lol:
    She must have been reading your posts...
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Spare a thought for her majesty.

    "We is not amused!" :lol:
    Am I amused though
    Look at my face
    Am I amused though
    Face
    Amused
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124

    Kwasi Kwarteng drowning on the Andrew Neil Show. Eton really is quite the waste of money, isn't it?

    What's the name of the school that adequately prepares you for a Brillo grilling?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
    Scott_P said:
    How does this work? Who chooses the questions Boris gets to answer?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Kwarteng imploding on the AN Show.

    Utterly disgraceful attempt to stir up more division but trying to avoid saying it himself by some desperate attempt to say the public thinks that.

    Then moaning about lawyers but ignoring the fact that the government will try and take the Benn Bill to Court .

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Lord Justice Sumption says; "As the Tories don't have a majority they can't exercise the Royal perogative" Sounds like a reasonable 'sumption
  • Spare a thought for her majesty.

    "We is not amused!" :lol:
    She must have been reading your posts...
    I'm sure she likes travelling by train :)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    How does this work? Who chooses the questions Boris gets to answer?

    BoZo chooses them
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    Drutt said:

    Kwasi Kwarteng drowning on the Andrew Neil Show. Eton really is quite the waste of money, isn't it?

    What's the name of the school that adequately prepares you for a Brillo grilling?
    Hardknocks
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Well looks like we’re going to experience a gota fria it may well be quite an experience
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Roger said:

    Lord Justice Sumption says; "As the Tories don't have a majority they can't exercise the Royal perogative" Sounds like a reasonable 'sumption

    Not sure how he works that out, the legislature can vote to do what it wants but the RP isn't dependent on a majority
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
    Scott_P said:

    How does this work? Who chooses the questions Boris gets to answer?

    BoZo chooses them
    Seriously? Why is any serious news outlet (especially the Guardian) covering it then?
  • Spare a thought for her majesty.

    "We is not amused!" :lol:
    Am I amused though
    Look at my face
    Am I amused though
    Face
    Amused
    “He wants to drag me down from Balmoral to read out a load of old bollocks wearing a crown that weighs a tonne. What a fucking liberty!”
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    nichomar said:

    Name me one party leader in the last thirty years who has done anything with their life outside of politics that was any use to anyone but themselves?

    Sir Nick Clegg is of use to Facebook.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    Chris said:

    Scott_P said:
    The fact that a room full of people is having to work on it suggests it's going to be heavily redacted. Or something.
    Surely if it's heavily redacted people are just going to assume the worst and think it's too awful for us to be allowed to see it.
  • Bloke just been ejected from the Farage rally!
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Bloke just been ejected from the Farage rally!

    Dom on manouveres?!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698

    Bloke just been ejected from the Farage rally!

    Is he a Diehard Remainer?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    edited September 2019
    OllyT said:

    Chris said:

    Scott_P said:
    The fact that a room full of people is having to work on it suggests it's going to be heavily redacted. Or something.
    Surely if it's heavily redacted people are just going to assume the worst and think it's too awful for us to be allowed to see it.
    Not only that, but they will want to see what the government doesn't want them to see. It's only human nature.
  • Bloke just been ejected from the Farage rally!

    Is he a Diehard Remainer?
    I think his 'crime' was to be wearing a T-shirt with an anti-racism slogan on it, but I couldn't read it properly.
  • Scott_P said:
    How does this work? Who chooses the questions Boris gets to answer?
    Dominic Cummings?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,893

    nichomar said:

    Name me one party leader in the last thirty years who has done anything with their life outside of politics that was any use to anyone but themselves?

    Paddy ashdown
    Tony Blair was in a band
    Lord Sutch too.
  • Bloke just been ejected from the Farage rally!

    Is he a Diehard Remainer?
    He appeared behind Farage during his Andrew Neil interview.

    Wearing a t shirt 'KEEP IMMIGRANTS, Deport The Racists'
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    Chris said:

    nichomar said:

    Name me one party leader in the last thirty years who has done anything with their life outside of politics that was any use to anyone but themselves?

    Sir Nick Clegg is of use to Facebook.
    Really?

    And I’m a LibDem voter. Usually.
  • Bloke just been ejected from the Farage rally!

    Is he a Diehard Remainer?
    Yippee-ki-yay!
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    Scott_P said:
    How does this work? Who chooses the questions Boris gets to answer?
    Dominic Cummings?
    I thought he asked them and Boris chose which to answer.

    Or is it the other way round?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    Roger said:

    Lord Justice Sumption says; "As the Tories don't have a majority they can't exercise the Royal perogative" Sounds like a reasonable 'sumption

    Not sure how he works that out, the legislature can vote to do what it wants but the RP isn't dependent on a majority
    That is surely the point. If the legislature doesn't represent a majority in parliament it has no authority to permit the executive to exercise the Royal perogative.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    edited September 2019

    Bloke just been ejected from the Farage rally!

    Is he a Diehard Remainer?
    I think his 'crime' was to be wearing a T-shirt with an anti-racism slogan on it, but I couldn't read it properly.
    'Keep the immigrants, deport the racists'
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    Roger said:

    Lord Justice Sumption says; "As the Tories don't have a majority they can't exercise the Royal perogative" Sounds like a reasonable 'sumption

    Absent the prerogative power HMG couldn't declare war. If that view is the correct one then a minority government would be unable to adequately control the armed forces.
  • Bloke just been ejected from the Farage rally!

    Is he a Diehard Remainer?
    He appeared behind Farage during his Andrew Neil interview.

    Wearing a t shirt 'KEEP IMMIGRANTS, Deport The Racists'
    That poses a problem with racist immigrants.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    edited September 2019

    Bloke just been ejected from the Farage rally!

    Is he a Diehard Remainer?
    HYUFD?
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Bloke just been ejected from the Farage rally!

    It would not surprise me if it was staged to get attention. I always remember Trump had similar incident's with several themes. One was a man who Trump ordered his protection detail to remove, another was a baby who Trump ordered to "get the baby out". They showed the clips on the news. I forget the other incidents but who wants to pay attention to that sort on rubbish.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    edited September 2019
    Here you go.


  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478

    Bloke just been ejected from the Farage rally!

    Is he a Diehard Remainer?
    He appeared behind Farage during his Andrew Neil interview.

    Wearing a t shirt 'KEEP IMMIGRANTS, Deport The Racists'
    That poses a problem with racist immigrants.
    Of whom were you thinking?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Over in America North Carolina Republicans look to win battles and lose wars

    https://twitter.com/KaplanABC11/status/1171770804117397504?s=19
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698

    Here you go.


    Haha - well done that man!
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    nichomar said:

    Name me one party leader in the last thirty years who has done anything with their life outside of politics that was any use to anyone but themselves?

    I dunno, most of them have had families who might take issue with that statement.
  • Chris said:

    nichomar said:

    Name me one party leader in the last thirty years who has done anything with their life outside of politics that was any use to anyone but themselves?

    Sir Nick Clegg is of use to Facebook.
    Thatcher was a scientist (and just meets the 30 year cutoff)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,893

    Chris said:

    nichomar said:

    Name me one party leader in the last thirty years who has done anything with their life outside of politics that was any use to anyone but themselves?

    Sir Nick Clegg is of use to Facebook.
    Thatcher was a scientist (and just meets the 30 year cutoff)
    IIRC she helped create Instant Whippy ice cream.
  • Drutt said:

    Roger said:

    Lord Justice Sumption says; "As the Tories don't have a majority they can't exercise the Royal perogative" Sounds like a reasonable 'sumption

    Absent the prerogative power HMG couldn't declare war. If that view is the correct one then a minority government would be usnable to adequately control the armed forces.
    Hasn’t that been essentially codified by the votes on Syria?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    edited September 2019
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Lord Justice Sumption says; "As the Tories don't have a majority they can't exercise the Royal perogative" Sounds like a reasonable 'sumption

    Not sure how he works that out, the legislature can vote to do what it wants but the RP isn't dependent on a majority
    That is surely the point. If the legislature doesn't represent a majority in parliament it has no authority to permit the executive to exercise the Royal perogative.
    The legislature IS parliament. It must pass a VONC to remove the executive, in which the powers of the RP lie. It doesn't 'permit' use of RP, RP is an executive power regardless of parliament

    Sounds like the mad old coot made a good decision to retire
  • Many people are saying Kwasi Kwarteng is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1171850211590901760
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Many people are saying Kwasi Kwarteng is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1171850211590901760

    What a twat
  • "Any disuption would reduce our ability to prevent and control disease outbreaks... industry stockpiling will not be able to match the 4-12 weeks worth of stockpiling which took place in March 2019"

    Jeepers.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
    edited September 2019
    Edit: Deleted due to my infallible timing :wink:
  • "The agri-food sector [in Ireland] will be hardest hit... disruption to key sectors and job losses are likely to result in protests and direct action with road blockages."

    "Up to 282 EU/EEA fishing vessels could enter illegally... this is likely to cause anger and frustration in the UK catching sector, which could lead to both clashes between fishing vessels and an increase in non-compliance in the domestic fleet."
  • "In a reasonable worst case scenario, HGVs could face maximum delays of 1.5-2.5 days before being able to cross the [UK/France] border... significant disruption lasting up to six months. Unmitigated, this will have an impact on the supply of medicines and medical supplies... three-quarters of medicines come via the short straits... it will not be practical to stockpile products to cover expected delays of up to six months."
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    edited September 2019
    Also deleted.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    It increasingly seems that Jeremy Corbyn is the adult in the room.

    Disappointing both to his supporters and his opponents.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Chris said:

    nichomar said:

    Name me one party leader in the last thirty years who has done anything with their life outside of politics that was any use to anyone but themselves?

    Sir Nick Clegg is of use to Facebook.
    Thatcher was a scientist (and just meets the 30 year cutoff)
    Her degree was but I don’t think she used it before doing a law degree
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,264

    Scott_P said:

    How does this work? Who chooses the questions Boris gets to answer?

    BoZo chooses them
    Seriously? Why is any serious news outlet (especially the Guardian) covering it then?
    Guardian - serious news outlet?

    Er...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
    Cyclefree said:

    Edit: Deleted due to my infallible timing :wink:

    They are refusing to provide that information.
    Yes, thank-you, so I see.
  • Spare a thought for her majesty.

    Have the last three years been in part a failure of the Monarchy?

    I know she told us at Christmas to be nice to each other, and understand each other, but I can't help but feel that if she's been providing words of wisdom to her ministers they haven't been wise or persuasive enough.
  • No sunlit uplands in Gibraltar.

    I'm assuming para 15 relates to NI, and has been redacted on security grounds.
  • "Member States do not agree to extend the current healthcare arrangements for UK state pensioners [abroad] and tourists beyond 31 October... there is a risk of disruption for patients and a minority could face substantial costs."

    "Protests and counter-protests will take place across the UK and may absorb significant amounts of police resource. There may be a rise in public disorder and community tensions."

    "Border delays could affect fuel distribution... in London and the South-East. Customer behaviour could lead to local shortages in other parts of the country. Low income groups will be disproportionately affected by any price rises in food and fuel."
  • "Price and other differentials [in NI] are likely to lead to the growth of the illegitimate economy. This will be particularly severe in border communities where both criminal and dissident groups already operate with greater threat and impunity."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    In much more important news than Brexit, why is this the first time I am hearing about an adaptation of the Watch group of characters from Discworld?!

    https://www.cinemablend.com/television/2479518/game-of-thrones-richard-dormer-set-to-lead-another-giant-fantasy-tv-show

    Never been convinced TV is a good medium for Discworld, but this is still stop the presses news.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,216

    "In a reasonable worst case scenario, HGVs could face maximum delays of 1.5-2.5 days before being able to cross the [UK/France] border... significant disruption lasting up to six months. Unmitigated, this will have an impact on the supply of medicines and medical supplies... three-quarters of medicines come via the short straits... it will not be practical to stockpile products to cover expected delays of up to six months."

    Only a worst case scenario
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,264
    edited September 2019
    nichomar said:

    Name me one party leader in the last thirty years who has done anything with their life outside of politics that was any use to anyone but themselves?

    Strange question, however...

    Mr Cleggover put a smile on the faces of at least 30 ladies. We trust.

    John Major and Surrey CC.

    Paddy Ashdown and the Balkans.

    And pretty much all of them have done worthwhile stuff around causes they support.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,216
    edited September 2019

    "The agri-food sector [in Ireland] will be hardest hit... disruption to key sectors and job losses are likely to result in protests and direct action with road blockages."

    Sounds like Ireland needs a deal


    "Up to 282 EU/EEA fishing vessels could enter illegally... this is likely to cause anger and frustration in the UK catching sector, which could lead to both clashes between fishing vessels and an increase in non-compliance in the domestic fleet."

    Sink em Norway owns its waters. Do they have frequent violations ?
  • After reading the Yellowhammer assumptions No Deal is going to be so awesome we'll have rejoined the EU by 2021.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Many people are saying Kwasi Kwarteng is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1171850211590901760

    "I'm just saying what people are saying". Even as dumb as he must be to say that, surely he still knows how dumb it is?
  • Bloke just been ejected from the Farage rally!

    Is he a Diehard Remainer?
    He appeared behind Farage during his Andrew Neil interview.

    Wearing a t shirt 'KEEP IMMIGRANTS, Deport The Racists'
    That poses a problem with racist immigrants.
    Of whom were you thinking?
    No one in particular. Just a wonky thought experiment.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Scott_P said:
    That’s a rubbish reason. These people are employees of the government. As such, their work material belongs to the government and the government has the right to deal with the material as it sees fit. Employees generally don’t have the right to stop their employers doing what they want with their own property.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Bloke just been ejected from the Farage rally!

    Is he a Diehard Remainer?
    He appeared behind Farage during his Andrew Neil interview.

    Wearing a t shirt 'KEEP IMMIGRANTS, Deport The Racists'
    That poses a problem with racist immigrants.
    Shh, we're not supposed to think about that.
  • 'Some cross-border UK financial services will be disrupted'

    Not to worry lads, the financial services industry is only the largest contributor to the Exchequer.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited September 2019

    Many people are saying Kwasi Kwarteng is as dumb as a box of rocks.

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1171850211590901760

    What a twat
    Thing is he's been one of the very few ministers who's been prepared to face the media over the last week. Obviously this evening has been something of a car crash, but up until now I'd felt he'd been doing a relatively good job of defending the indefensible.

    Had been miles better than Nigel Evans, whose the other one who's been sent out to bat on this seam-friendly wicket.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698

    No sunlit uplands in Gibraltar.

    I'm assuming para 15 relates to NI, and has been redacted on security grounds.

    Gove's letter to Benn says it has been redacted on grounds of 'commercial sensitivity'.
  • Quick conclusions after a first skim through:

    1. No single smoking gun here but a lot of smouldering ones.
    2. If we do end up with No Deal, it's going to be very hard now for the Government to plead innocence.
    3. The disruption/civil unrest stuff is worrying. If you were the Real IRA or the Revolutionary Trots of Sydenham or whoever, I imagine it must be quite useful to have the Government enumerate its vulnerabilities like this.
    4. There's a lot of "life will get a bit worse" in here. It only takes one of those to flare up. Britain collectively lost its shit a few years ago when petrol prices went up a bit... this envisages situations worse than that.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856

    'Some cross-border UK financial services will be disrupted'

    Not to worry lads, the financial services industry is only the largest contributor to the Exchequer.

    Do you think that statement is a smoking gun? They might as well tell us the Pope's a ....
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_P said:
    That’s a rubbish reason. These people are employees of the government. As such, their work material belongs to the government and the government has the right to deal with the material as it sees fit. Employees generally don’t have the right to stop their employers doing what they want with their own property.

    Looks like the courts are going to be busy again!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Pulpstar said:

    "The agri-food sector [in Ireland] will be hardest hit... disruption to key sectors and job losses are likely to result in protests and direct action with road blockages."

    Sounds like Ireland needs a deal
    They are prepared to risk it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,216

    Britain collectively lost its shit a few years ago when petrol prices went up a bit... this envisages situations worse than that.

    Far more serious than anything NI related that one. Opinion will turn very very quickly against Brexit if fuel shoots up to £1.50 a litre or more.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751

    "In a reasonable worst case scenario, HGVs could face maximum delays of 1.5-2.5 days before being able to cross the [UK/France] border... significant disruption lasting up to six months. Unmitigated, this will have an impact on the supply of medicines and medical supplies... three-quarters of medicines come via the short straits... it will not be practical to stockpile products to cover expected delays of up to six months."

    Does anyone remember an interview in which Boris Johnson said he could guarantee that supplies of medicines would not be disrupted?
  • No sunlit uplands in Gibraltar.

    I'm assuming para 15 relates to NI, and has been redacted on security grounds.

    Gove's letter to Benn says it has been redacted on grounds of 'commercial sensitivity'.
    We're going to sell NI to the Republic? Will they pay in Euro?
  • Whatever happened to the poster called Geoff from Gibraltar?
  • Pulpstar said:

    Britain collectively lost its shit a few years ago when petrol prices went up a bit... this envisages situations worse than that.

    Far more serious than anything NI related that one. Opinion will turn very very quickly against Brexit if fuel shoots up to £1.50 a litre or more.
    Yeah, you're almost certainly right.

    A highways engineer made the observation on Twitter the other day that "Any effort to restrict car use in the UK has a similar backlash to any effort to restrict gun use in the USA". I'd not thought of the comparison before but he has a point.
This discussion has been closed.