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  • Theresa May seems to regard Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill as family from Home Office days, and is apparently completely oblivious to the effect of awarding gongs to them on the repute of the honours system.

    She always believed that the Tory party was the country, so it's no surprise to me that she appears to believe her family is the nation's.

    Nick Timothy should be writing her a thank you card.

    She’s been very magnanimous given he’s been slagging her off the last two years.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342

    Very good jobs news. For Boris.

    Yes. He's still in one.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    The one UK country that will be absolutely DESPERATE for a FTA with the UK is..... Ireland. If we ever Brexit, this will likely be good news, rather than bad.
  • Theresa May seems to regard Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill as family from Home Office days, and is apparently completely oblivious to the effect of awarding gongs to them on the repute of the honours system.

    She always believed that the Tory party was the country, so it's no surprise to me that she appears to believe her family is the nation's.

    Nick Timothy should be writing her a thank you card.

    She’s been very magnanimous given he’s been slagging her off the last two years.
    You would forgive your brother or cousin if a conscientious home counties anglican too, I think.
  • This is the problem:

    406 constituencies voted to Leave, 242 voted to remain.
    148 Labour constituencies voted to Leave, 84 voted to Remain
    247 Tory constituencies voted to Leave, 80 voted to Remain.
    9 regions voted to Leave, 3 voted to Remain.
    160 MP’s voted to Leave 486 voted to Remain.

    Which is why we need an election.

    BUT - it seems vanishingly unlikely that BJ can win big, so we will remain in stasis, unable to decide anything, until the EU finally boots us out without a Deal. I can't really see a way that avoids No Deal.

    No Deal is the worst for any side because it just further complicates everything and enlarges the rupture, as well as potentially initiating a European recession. So as pissed off as the EU is it will keep can kicking until there’s an election or decision in Britain that resolves things.

    The more I think about it the more I think the nation is incapable of returning a decisive Parliament, and Parliament can’t or won’t decide, so I’m drawn more or more to thinking there’ll be a referendum next year to reinstruct Parliament what to do.

    It won’t settle things. And many people will be very angry about it. But it will move things on from A50.

    For now.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,362
    dixiedean said:

    Very good jobs news. For Boris.

    Yes. He's still in one.
    I'll tee 'em up, .....
  • Theresa May seems to regard Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill as family from Home Office days, and is apparently completely oblivious to the effect of awarding gongs to them on the repute of the honours system.

    She always believed that the Tory party was the country, so it's no surprise to me that she appears to believe her family is the nation's.

    Nick Timothy should be writing her a thank you card.

    She’s been very magnanimous given he’s been slagging her off the last two years.
    You would forgive your brother or cousin if a conscientious home counties anglican too, I think.
    Theresa May hasn’t always been known for her magnanimity for those that crossed her.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,729

    This is the problem:

    406 constituencies voted to Leave, 242 voted to remain.
    148 Labour constituencies voted to Leave, 84 voted to Remain
    247 Tory constituencies voted to Leave, 80 voted to Remain.
    9 regions voted to Leave, 3 voted to Remain.
    160 MP’s voted to Leave 486 voted to Remain.

    Which is why we need an election.

    BUT - it seems vanishingly unlikely that BJ can win big, so we will remain in stasis, unable to decide anything, until the EU finally boots us out without a Deal. I can't really see a way that avoids No Deal.

    "vanishingly unlikely"? The YouGov poll waves......
    What we are most likely to get is Tories largest party but out of power, with some kind of bodged up "coalition of the losers", led by the most unpopular UK politician in history ensconced in No 10. Things could get a whole lot worse.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873
    Very plausible. Same problem with any deal getting through the house - details dont matter, its politics.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,362
    It hadn't registered that 2019 was a Trolling Olympics year.....
  • CD13 said:


    I suspect the poshos will have their way. We'll stay and Nationhood will disappear as we're subsumed into a single country.

    It’s not the EU that took away England’s nationhood, but the UK.
    Some people do consider themselves British. Just saying.
    WilliamGlenn is a good example of how articulate loons exist on the ultra europhile side as well as the ultra eurosceptic side.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited September 2019

    Theresa May seems to regard Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill as family from Home Office days, and is apparently completely oblivious to the effect of awarding gongs to them on the repute of the honours system.

    She always believed that the Tory party was the country, so it's no surprise to me that she appears to believe her family is the nation's.

    Nick Timothy should be writing her a thank you card.

    She’s been very magnanimous given he’s been slagging her off the last two years.
    You would forgive your brother or cousin if a conscientious home counties anglican too, I think.
    Theresa May hasn’t always been known for her magnanimity for those that crossed her.
    True, but these are amongst her oldest allies, which would make the sense of obligation much stronger.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,873

    One striking feature of the comments this morning is how very poster - Leave or Remain - seems to think public opinion is on their side. Presumably a symptom of the echo chamber response.

    Well, in the Civil War, both factions were sure God was on their side.
    I would love mps to start using divine providence as an argument. They essentially do just substituting the word god for public
  • So, what does the PB collective think about Day 2 of BAs attempt to trash a once great brand? The absence of much comment or care in the media about the fact that our National Carrier is grounded seems to me to reflect that BA is without much sympathy. Business users will not dare to book a flight with them for the next 6 weeks or more and that loss of revenue could be terminal. Good luck to pilots seeking to have a share in the profits - their actions means these will be as rare as a happy BA stewardess! BA= Bloody Awful
  • Repairing the damage done to the office of speaker should be the priority and Lindsay Hoyle does seem to have at least the perception of being honest, decent, humble and fair.

    The reaction to Bercow last night tells you what a dreadful speaker he has been and as much as i'd love to turn the role in to a paritisan one in revenge it would do the country no good in the long run.

    The best legacy for Bercow is showing how not to do the job.
  • The cabinet was starting from a very low base, so perhaps he's right.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,362

    This is the problem:

    406 constituencies voted to Leave, 242 voted to remain.
    148 Labour constituencies voted to Leave, 84 voted to Remain
    247 Tory constituencies voted to Leave, 80 voted to Remain.
    9 regions voted to Leave, 3 voted to Remain.
    160 MP’s voted to Leave 486 voted to Remain.

    Which is why we need an election.

    BUT - it seems vanishingly unlikely that BJ can win big, so we will remain in stasis, unable to decide anything, until the EU finally boots us out without a Deal. I can't really see a way that avoids No Deal.

    "vanishingly unlikely"? The YouGov poll waves......
    What we are most likely to get is Tories largest party but out of power, with some kind of bodged up "coalition of the losers", led by the most unpopular UK politician in history ensconced in No 10. Things could get a whole lot worse.
    So you've gone from a Tory majority being "vanishingly unlikely" to "least likely" in two posts.

    OK.
  • Dismas64 said:

    So, what does the PB collective think about Day 2 of BAs attempt to trash a once great brand? The absence of much comment or care in the media about the fact that our National Carrier is grounded seems to me to reflect that BA is without much sympathy. Business users will not dare to book a flight with them for the next 6 weeks or more and that loss of revenue could be terminal. Good luck to pilots seeking to have a share in the profits - their actions means these will be as rare as a happy BA stewardess! BA= Bloody Awful

    The pilots are still good but the service in the cabin is no better than RyanAir these days.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,428
    You know if you’re in the metropolitan liberal elite if you’re discussing the slipping standards of British Airways. ;)
  • Dismas64 said:

    So, what does the PB collective think about Day 2 of BAs attempt to trash a once great brand? The absence of much comment or care in the media about the fact that our National Carrier is grounded seems to me to reflect that BA is without much sympathy. Business users will not dare to book a flight with them for the next 6 weeks or more and that loss of revenue could be terminal. Good luck to pilots seeking to have a share in the profits - their actions means these will be as rare as a happy BA stewardess! BA= Bloody Awful

    While the management do seem to have “issues” I have always found the staff to be top quality. As I said the other day, I will always try to fly ba simply because of the people.

  • kle4 said:

    Very plausible. Same problem with any deal getting through the house - details dont matter, its politics.
    I hope @rcs1000 comments on that article given his insistence that the WA commits the EU to implementing a technical solution for the border.
  • kle4 said:

    Very plausible. Same problem with any deal getting through the house - details dont matter, its politics.
    https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1171370114152878080?s=20
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800

    This is the problem:

    406 constituencies voted to Leave, 242 voted to remain.
    148 Labour constituencies voted to Leave, 84 voted to Remain
    247 Tory constituencies voted to Leave, 80 voted to Remain.
    9 regions voted to Leave, 3 voted to Remain.
    160 MP’s voted to Leave 486 voted to Remain.

    Which is why we need an election.

    BUT - it seems vanishingly unlikely that BJ can win big, so we will remain in stasis, unable to decide anything, until the EU finally boots us out without a Deal. I can't really see a way that avoids No Deal.

    None of that matters. Some of the margins in a lot of the constituencies were very small - I believe in over 200 constituencies the margin was less than 10 points so either 55-45 for Leave or the same for Remain (my constituency is in that group) and given the huge variation in constituency sizes that also weakens that comparison.

    Again, it's worth pointing out MPs are representatives not delegates - that was Churchill's view for one and he was nearly thrown out of the Conservative Party once.

    I also know what Cameron said in February 2016 but ultimately I don't see how a referendum is the same as an election and while I understand people's frustration and desire to see the result "respected", an MP is only answerable to his or her constituents at an election. Yes, you can lobby them and argue your case but an MP, subject to the discipline of the Party, doesn't have to abide by the majority view of his or her constituents.

    In a binary situation, if you take one side you are by definition not representing those who support the other and they may feel unrepresented. T

    I know many will say it's not "fair" and it's not respecting the will of the people and I get that but democracy ain't perfect. We see Governments elected on 36% of those voting and while that's an argument for some form of PR it's also a recognition that democracy is flawed.

    I don't accept majorities are always right and I don't accept that if a majority wants something it has to happen. Sometimes checks are needed to ensure the "honour and safety" (WSC) of the country are safeguarded and that may entail going against the will of a majority if it is considered detrimental to the aforementioned honour and safety.

    That's democracy - it's not simple and it's not easy and it needs work and it needs understanding and it often defies simplistic assertions and challenges them but again as Churchill said, it's better than all the alternatives.
  • This is the problem:

    406 constituencies voted to Leave, 242 voted to remain.
    148 Labour constituencies voted to Leave, 84 voted to Remain
    247 Tory constituencies voted to Leave, 80 voted to Remain.
    9 regions voted to Leave, 3 voted to Remain.
    160 MP’s voted to Leave 486 voted to Remain.

    Which is why we need an election.

    BUT - it seems vanishingly unlikely that BJ can win big, so we will remain in stasis, unable to decide anything, until the EU finally boots us out without a Deal. I can't really see a way that avoids No Deal.

    "vanishingly unlikely"? The YouGov poll waves......
    What we are most likely to get is Tories largest party but out of power, with some kind of bodged up "coalition of the losers", led by the most unpopular UK politician in history ensconced in No 10. Things could get a whole lot worse.
    So you've gone from a Tory majority being "vanishingly unlikely" to "least likely" in two posts.

    OK.
    OTOH, assuming that any meaning can be discerned from the discarded tealeaves of current polling is rather optimistic. They vary from one survey to another by an individual company, yet alone between companies. And then you need to factor in what happened in 2017.

    The next GE is absolutely wide open. Labour, the Conservatives or even the Lib Dems could end up in government, but the chances of any of them getting a stoking large majority seems rather low at the current time.

    Not that this is much help for betting purposes ...
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    kle4 said:

    Very plausible. Same problem with any deal getting through the house - details dont matter, its politics.
    https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1171370114152878080?s=20
    Nowhere in this universe is "No Deal" Ireland's preferred outcome.
  • It’s all kicking off in Brussels.....

    https://twitter.com/quatremer/status/1171369968581128192?s=20
  • Repairing the damage done to the office of speaker should be the priority and Lindsay Hoyle does seem to have at least the perception of being honest, decent, humble and fair.

    The reaction to Bercow last night tells you what a dreadful speaker he has been and as much as i'd love to turn the role in to a paritisan one in revenge it would do the country no good in the long run.

    The best legacy for Bercow is showing how not to do the job.

    If you look at his career Bercow has enjoyed being in the spotlight and being a bit of an outsider.

    I am therefore seriously considering backing him with v.small stakes at 150/1 to be next PM in a GONU.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,060

    This is the problem:

    406 constituencies voted to Leave, 242 voted to remain.
    148 Labour constituencies voted to Leave, 84 voted to Remain
    247 Tory constituencies voted to Leave, 80 voted to Remain.
    9 regions voted to Leave, 3 voted to Remain.
    160 MP’s voted to Leave 486 voted to Remain.

    Which is why we need an election.

    BUT - it seems vanishingly unlikely that BJ can win big, so we will remain in stasis, unable to decide anything, until the EU finally boots us out without a Deal. I can't really see a way that avoids No Deal.

    "vanishingly unlikely"? The YouGov poll waves......
    What we are most likely to get is Tories largest party but out of power, with some kind of bodged up "coalition of the losers", led by the most unpopular UK politician in history ensconced in No 10. Things could get a whole lot worse.
    As the largest party, the Conservatives would be the losers if they can't find enough MPs to form a coalition. That's how politics works.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    Norm said:

    Interesting blog on polling company “house effects” on results

    https://sotonpolitics.org/2019/09/10/house-effects-and-how-to-read-the-polling-tea-leaves/

    "As of the end of August, the Polling Observatory puts support for the Conservatives at 35.5% (16.9 points above where the party stood at the end of May), Labour at 24.5% (just one point higher than May), the Liberal Democrats at 18.0% (0.2 points down), the Brexit Party at 12.1% (10 points down) and the Green Party 5.3% (one point down) – with UKIP support statistically indistinguishable from 0%."
    Mind you this came out yesterday

    https://twitter.com/mojos55/status/1171084638225424385

    Perhaps Labour might yet regret their decision not to go for an early GE
    Just wait until Bozo has to extend, and half the Tory vote jumps ship to Farage.
    Contrary to 99% of Twitter and PB opinion but I actually think Boris has played the Farage wing as well as he possibly can.

    1. The hard Brexiteers have witnessed Boris doing everything he can (including completely trashing his honeymoon) to keep No Deal alive. So the betrayal narrative doesn't work. Boris-haters can knock him but it was 100% guaranteed - proroguation or not - the Remainers were going to screw him over in parliament. There was zero chance of compromise.

    2. The Faragists have nowhere to go. If they split Boris's vote they get Corbyn,

    I was in the Algarve last week and people were talking about Brexit as it was all over the TVs. I would suggest most people had very little in-depth knowledge but the prevailing opinion was good on Boris for at least trying to get it sorted. On my straw poll holiday-maker basis 100 out of 100 just laughed when Corbyn was mentioned.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Dismas64 said:

    So, what does the PB collective think about Day 2 of BAs attempt to trash a once great brand? The absence of much comment or care in the media about the fact that our National Carrier is grounded seems to me to reflect that BA is without much sympathy. Business users will not dare to book a flight with them for the next 6 weeks or more and that loss of revenue could be terminal. Good luck to pilots seeking to have a share in the profits - their actions means these will be as rare as a happy BA stewardess! BA= Bloody Awful

    IAG as a group and BA as an airline are insanely profitable though, primarily because of BA’s lock on Heathrow and the NYLon route, so I think it’d take a very protracted all-out strike to make it ”terminal”.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Harperson on Radio 5 this morning - basically wants to stand on the continuity Bercow ticket.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited September 2019
    Fenster said:


    2. The Faragists have nowhere to go. If they split Boris's vote they get Corbyn,

    That may be so, but it won't stop lots voting BXP regardless. Johnson will struggle to get a better scenario for an election than the one he just missed.
  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    Very plausible. Same problem with any deal getting through the house - details dont matter, its politics.
    https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1171370114152878080?s=20
    Nowhere in this universe is "No Deal" Ireland's preferred outcome.
    I find McTague's analysis pretty bad, very rarely gets anything right.
  • stodge said:


    None of that matters. Some of the margins in a lot of the constituencies were very small - I believe in over 200 constituencies the margin was less than 10 points so either 55-45 for Leave or the same for Remain (my constituency is in that group) and given the huge variation in constituency sizes that also weakens that comparison.

    Again, it's worth pointing out MPs are representatives not delegates - that was Churchill's view for one and he was nearly thrown out of the Conservative Party once.

    I also know what Cameron said in February 2016 but ultimately I don't see how a referendum is the same as an election and while I understand people's frustration and desire to see the result "respected", an MP is only answerable to his or her constituents at an election. Yes, you can lobby them and argue your case but an MP, subject to the discipline of the Party, doesn't have to abide by the majority view of his or her constituents.

    In a binary situation, if you take one side you are by definition not representing those who support the other and they may feel unrepresented. T

    I know many will say it's not "fair" and it's not respecting the will of the people and I get that but democracy ain't perfect. We see Governments elected on 36% of those voting and while that's an argument for some form of PR it's also a recognition that democracy is flawed.

    I don't accept majorities are always right and I don't accept that if a majority wants something it has to happen. Sometimes checks are needed to ensure the "honour and safety" (WSC) of the country are safeguarded and that may entail going against the will of a majority if it is considered detrimental to the aforementioned honour and safety.

    That's democracy - it's not simple and it's not easy and it needs work and it needs understanding and it often defies simplistic assertions and challenges them but again as Churchill said, it's better than all the alternatives.

    The 'advisory' argument fell out of favour quite quickly when it was realised that voters in no way understood the referendum in those terms.

    Ultimately the choice for remainers is do they value the EU over having a stable democracy that doesn't lurch to the extremes in anger at being ignored? In fact we've already travelled a fair distance down that particular road and the destination will not be pretty.

    What I do not understand though is that if a post-Brexit UK is going to be as big a disaster as claimed it will be relatively easy for a political party to win on a GE manifesto promising to fully rejoin with no opt-outs.

    The country has its safety valve of the result being honoured and the europhiles get to rejoin the EU right in the centre of the project with no chance of us leaving again.

    It is win-win for remainers.

  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    TGOHF said:

    Harperson on Radio 5 this morning - basically wants to stand on the continuity Bercow ticket.

    I'd have faith she'd be a lot more even-handed - can't imagine her openly insulting government ministers from the chair, for example.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Fenster said:

    Norm said:

    Interesting blog on polling company “house effects” on results

    https://sotonpolitics.org/2019/09/10/house-effects-and-how-to-read-the-polling-tea-leaves/

    "As of the end of August, the Polling Observatory puts support for the Conservatives at 35.5% (16.9 points above where the party stood at the end of May), Labour at 24.5% (just one point higher than May), the Liberal Democrats at 18.0% (0.2 points down), the Brexit Party at 12.1% (10 points down) and the Green Party 5.3% (one point down) – with UKIP support statistically indistinguishable from 0%."
    Mind you this came out yesterday

    https://twitter.com/mojos55/status/1171084638225424385

    Perhaps Labour might yet regret their decision not to go for an early GE
    Just wait until Bozo has to extend, and half the Tory vote jumps ship to Farage.
    Contrary to 99% of Twitter and PB opinion but I actually think Boris has played the Farage wing as well as he possibly can.

    1. The hard Brexiteers have witnessed Boris doing everything he can (including completely trashing his honeymoon) to keep No Deal alive. So the betrayal narrative doesn't work. Boris-haters can knock him but it was 100% guaranteed - proroguation or not - the Remainers were going to screw him over in parliament. There was zero chance of compromise.

    2. The Faragists have nowhere to go. If they split Boris's vote they get Corbyn,

    I was in the Algarve last week and people were talking about Brexit as it was all over the TVs. I would suggest most people had very little in-depth knowledge but the prevailing opinion was good on Boris for at least trying to get it sorted. On my straw poll holiday-maker basis 100 out of 100 just laughed when Corbyn was mentioned.
    An example of the legendary Holiday polling effect in action (or on vacation).

    I wonder if people react differently to political questioning when relaxed and on holiday and when they are at home / work and more stressed.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited September 2019
    Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    Very plausible. Same problem with any deal getting through the house - details dont matter, its politics.
    https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1171370114152878080?s=20
    Nowhere in this universe is "No Deal" Ireland's preferred outcome.
    https://twitter.com/tommctague/status/1171372893181292544?s=21

    However, Varadkar has brought much of this suspicion on himself. In an interview with the media on Monday, he openly declared what appeared to be a bad faith position on the backstop.
  • Repairing the damage done to the office of speaker should be the priority and Lindsay Hoyle does seem to have at least the perception of being honest, decent, humble and fair.

    The reaction to Bercow last night tells you what a dreadful speaker he has been and as much as i'd love to turn the role in to a paritisan one in revenge it would do the country no good in the long run.

    The best legacy for Bercow is showing how not to do the job.

    If you look at his career Bercow has enjoyed being in the spotlight and being a bit of an outsider.

    I am therefore seriously considering backing him with v.small stakes at 150/1 to be next PM in a GONU.
    Very possible this was agreed as a strategy at the leaders meeting yesterday morning- GONU led by Bercow to deliver 2nd ref then election.

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:
    The UK could never be Singapore, (GDP/capita $65,000) which is a city state, but London could. Worth pointing out that Malaysia, of which Singapore was once a part, has a GDP/capita of $11,000. If that seems a fanciful comparison, consider that west inner London has a GDP/capita almost 10 times as high as West Wales and the Valleys - and that is with the existing level of redistribution from richer to poorer regions.
    LOL, redistribution, you really are joking. You mean robbery from the regions to London.
    I have a huge amount of sympathy for the view that London is too dominant within the UK both economically and politically (although in reality much of the power and wealth lies in the wealthy Shires, not London itself, which is home to some of the most deprived areas of the country). But taking all that as given, as a matter of simple accounting it is the case that London generates a fiscal surplus which is redistributed to the rest of the country, even taking into account higher public spending in London.
    Anyway, I am not saying this in a triumphal London centric sense, I was only trying to point out that this kind of UK as Singapore story is absurd because Singapore is a trading city state not a diverse economy like the UK.
    (FYI I am Scottish and grew up there and in the NE of England so I certainly understand your frustration at the unbalanced nature of the UK, even while also loving London as a brilliant place to live and raise a family).
    I was also being tongue in cheek, whilst as you say some accuracy there as well.
  • Repairing the damage done to the office of speaker should be the priority and Lindsay Hoyle does seem to have at least the perception of being honest, decent, humble and fair.

    The reaction to Bercow last night tells you what a dreadful speaker he has been and as much as i'd love to turn the role in to a paritisan one in revenge it would do the country no good in the long run.

    The best legacy for Bercow is showing how not to do the job.

    If you look at his career Bercow has enjoyed being in the spotlight and being a bit of an outsider.

    I am therefore seriously considering backing him with v.small stakes at 150/1 to be next PM in a GONU.
    Very possible this was agreed as a strategy at the leaders meeting yesterday morning- GONU led by Bercow to deliver 2nd ref then election.

    Do you have a source for that?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    The the thread header, I thought the betting markets were usually more or less derivatives of the polls? The polls are almost always wrong, so it follows the betting markets are too.
  • Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    Very plausible. Same problem with any deal getting through the house - details dont matter, its politics.
    https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1171370114152878080?s=20
    Nowhere in this universe is "No Deal" Ireland's preferred outcome.
    "No Deal is not enough
    But it is such a perfect place to start, my love
    And if you're strong enough
    Together we can take No Deal apart, my love"
  • British Airways is a shit service I refuse to use.

    On more than one occasion they've lost or misplaced my luggage, one time for a wedding in New York and my morning suit and most of my clothes ended up in Australia I think.

    They also billed me four times for the same journey once.

    If BA were a pizza topping they'd be pineapple.

    Talking about airlines, I'm quite happy for the police to user rubber bullets on Extinction Rebellion splitters this week if they actually do use drones at Heathrow.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/29/holidaymakers-face-flight-chaos-extinction-rebellion-splinter/
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209

    isam said:

    What a disgrace the honours list is. A load of TMs flunkys rewarded for completely nausing things.

    Finally something we can agree on!
    Has malcolmg opined on them yet....?!

    He should instigate the Golden Turnips.
    Will there be enough Golden Turnips to go around, without seeing the list I am certain 99% will be absolute donkeys and grasping troughers of the worst kind. If I get time I will have a look.
  • Mr. Eagles, it'll be interesting to see if the police continue to pussyfoot around or actually enforce the law.
  • CaptainBuzzkillCaptainBuzzkill Posts: 335
    edited September 2019


    I am therefore seriously considering backing him with v.small stakes at 150/1 to be next PM in a GONU.

    Very possible this was agreed as a strategy at the leaders meeting yesterday morning- GONU led by Bercow to deliver 2nd ref then election.

    If Bercow is used to head up a GoNU and deliver R2 then it will not end well for the remain camp.

    Granted not as badly as if they used Grieve but still a close 2nd.
  • You know if you’re in the metropolitan liberal elite if you’re discussing the slipping standards of British Airways. ;)

    Congratulations Gallowgate. You are the first person to ever call me that 🤣
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    philiph said:

    Fenster said:

    Norm said:

    Interesting blog on polling company “house effects” on results

    https://sotonpolitics.org/2019/09/10/house-effects-and-how-to-read-the-polling-tea-leaves/

    "As of the end of August, the Polling Observatory puts support for the Conservatives at 35.5% (16.9 points above where the party stood at the end of May), Labour at 24.5% (just one point higher than May), the Liberal Democrats at 18.0% (0.2 points down), the Brexit Party at 12.1% (10 points down) and the Green Party 5.3% (one point down) – with UKIP support statistically indistinguishable from 0%."
    Mind you this came out yesterday

    https://twitter.com/mojos55/status/1171084638225424385

    Perhaps Labour might yet regret their decision not to go for an early GE
    Just wait until Bozo has to extend, and half the Tory vote jumps ship to Farage.
    Contrary to 99% of Twitter and PB opinion but I actually think Boris has played the Farage wing as well as he possibly can.

    1. The hard Brexiteers have witnessed Boris doing everything he can (including completely trashing his honeymoon) to keep No Deal alive. So the betrayal narrative doesn't work. Boris-haters can knock him but it was 100% guaranteed - proroguation or not - the Remainers were going to screw him over in parliament. There was zero chance of compromise.

    2. The Faragists have nowhere to go. If they split Boris's vote they get Corbyn,

    I was in the Algarve last week and people were talking about Brexit as it was all over the TVs. I would suggest most people had very little in-depth knowledge but the prevailing opinion was good on Boris for at least trying to get it sorted. On my straw poll holiday-maker basis 100 out of 100 just laughed when Corbyn was mentioned.
    An example of the legendary Holiday polling effect in action (or on vacation).

    I wonder if people react differently to political questioning when relaxed and on holiday and when they are at home / work and more stressed.
    Yeah perhaps. I'm always very careful what I say because I'm a nerd camouflaged as a pisshead, and I don't want to bug people with politics talk, but in two nice bars I was surprised at the pro-get-it-done reaction.
  • Mr. Eagles, it'll be interesting to see if the police continue to pussyfoot around or actually enforce the law.

    I hope the police use their kettling technique which I believe is to trap the protestors in a small space and pour hot water over them.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,209

    You know if you’re in the metropolitan liberal elite if you’re discussing the slipping standards of British Airways. ;)

    Charles will be along to regale us of platinum, titanium , gold or whatever the super elite get for airmiles these days and to inform us that first class is not what it used to be.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    British Airways is a shit service I refuse to use.

    On more than one occasion they've lost or misplaced my luggage, one time for a wedding in New York and my morning suit and most of my clothes ended up in Australia I think.

    They also billed me four times for the same journey once.

    If BA were a pizza topping they'd be pineapple.

    Talking about airlines, I'm quite happy for the police to user rubber bullets on Extinction Rebellion splitters this week if they actually do use drones at Heathrow.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/29/holidaymakers-face-flight-chaos-extinction-rebellion-splinter/

    You would like to see the use of firearms on people as a summary punishment for criminal activity? Is that in lieu of arresting them, or just an additional frisson of violence you'd like to see added to the equation?
  • malcolmg said:

    You know if you’re in the metropolitan liberal elite if you’re discussing the slipping standards of British Airways. ;)

    Charles will be along to regale us of platinum, titanium , gold or whatever the super elite get for airmiles these days and to inform us that first class is not what it used to be.
    Emirates and Etihad are the best.
  • glw said:

    Roger said:

    The Tories made a mistake of monumental proportions. Someone cerebral was needed and they went for the clown. The writing was on the wall in letters you could see from outer space. DONT TOUCH THIS OAF WITH BARGE POLL!

    Mrs May showed the way with her decision to rub the faces of 16.5 million voters into the mud during her election campaign. She lost her majority and appointed Boris Johnson as Foreign Secretary. The nasty party had become the ridiculous party......

    His incompetence became famous at home and abroad and his disloyalty had the ERG green with envy. He finally managed to force Mrs May out. The person who had given him a second chance......

    Even during the leadership campaign those Tory members with a sensory bypass were given a last chance when the police were called to his love nest at 2 AM.......

    ........No one can say they went into this blind because they didn't. They deserve everything that's coming and that includes PM Corbyn

    Blimey, a post from Roger I agree with.
    I do think the lesson from the last election is that the electorate, as a whole, isn't as gung-ho as TM (then) and BJ (now) assume. However much Will of The People says "leave", it's hardly a clear-cut binary No Deal mandate in a 52-48 result.

    The "crush the saboteurs" schtick (admittedly with a dollop of death tax) nearly lost them power last time. That could happen again, along with "who rules Britain?" getting the same answer as Heath ("not you, pal!")
  • Noo said:

    British Airways is a shit service I refuse to use.

    On more than one occasion they've lost or misplaced my luggage, one time for a wedding in New York and my morning suit and most of my clothes ended up in Australia I think.

    They also billed me four times for the same journey once.

    If BA were a pizza topping they'd be pineapple.

    Talking about airlines, I'm quite happy for the police to user rubber bullets on Extinction Rebellion splitters this week if they actually do use drones at Heathrow.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/29/holidaymakers-face-flight-chaos-extinction-rebellion-splinter/

    You would like to see the use of firearms on people as a summary punishment for criminal activity? Is that in lieu of arresting them, or just an additional frisson of violence you'd like to see added to the equation?
    These bellends could bring down a few airplanes, they need to know that there will be serious consequences for them.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    His tweet stream is intriguing. He used to be incensed about the supremacy of the English language in the EU (and elsewhere), now he is annoyed but weary. Almost resigned.

    The other striking thing from his account is how much he, a French journalist in France, tweets about Brexit. It's endless. For good or ill, the world is fascinated by our painful quasi-revolution.

    Similarly, "Black Rod" is right now trending in the USA.

    https://twitter.com/szczygi4/status/1171376468716380160?s=20
  • stodge said:

    This is the problem:

    406 constituencies voted to Leave, 242 voted to remain.
    148 Labour constituencies voted to Leave, 84 voted to Remain
    247 Tory constituencies voted to Leave, 80 voted to Remain.
    9 regions voted to Leave, 3 voted to Remain.
    160 MP’s voted to Leave 486 voted to Remain.

    Which is why we need an election.

    BUT - it seems vanishingly unlikely that BJ can win big, so we will remain in stasis, unable to decide anything, until the EU finally boots us out without a Deal. I can't really see a way that avoids No Deal.

    None of that matters. Some of the margins in a lot of the constituencies were very small - I believe in over 200 constituencies the margin was less than 10 points so either 55-45 for Leave or the same for Remain (my constituency is in that group) and given the huge variation in constituency sizes that also weakens that comparison.

    Again, it's worth pointing out MPs are representatives not delegates - that was Churchill's view for one and he was nearly thrown out of the Conservative Party once.

    I also know what Cameron said in February 2016 but ultimately I don't see how a referendum is the same as an election and while I understand people's frustration and desire to see the result "respected", an MP is only answerable to his or her constituents at an election. Yes, you can lobby them and argue your case but an MP, subject to the discipline of the Party, doesn't have to abide by the majority view of his or her constituents.

    In a binary situation, if you take one side you are by definition not representing those who support the other and they may feel unrepresented. T

    I know many will say it's not "fair" and it's not respecting the will of the people and I get that but democracy ain't perfect. We see Governments elected on 36% of those voting and while that's an argument for some form of PR it's also a recognition that democracy is flawed.

    I don't accept majorities are always right and I don't accept that if a majority wants something it has to happen. Sometimes checks are needed to ensure the "honour and safety" (WSC) of the country are safeguarded and that may entail going against the will of a majority if it is considered detrimental to the aforementioned honour and safety.

    That's democracy - it's not simple and it's not easy and it needs work and it needs understanding and it often defies simplistic assertions and challenges them but again as Churchill said, it's better than all the alternatives.
    While we have an overwhelming majority of seats that never change ownership we are badly served. FPTP has to go.

  • malcolmg said:

    You know if you’re in the metropolitan liberal elite if you’re discussing the slipping standards of British Airways. ;)

    Charles will be along to regale us of platinum, titanium , gold or whatever the super elite get for airmiles these days and to inform us that first class is not what it used to be.
    Emirates and Etihad are the best.
    Qatar pretty good too. Except for the 787 in the cheap seats...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    isam said:

    The the thread header, I thought the betting markets were usually more or less derivatives of the polls? The polls are almost always wrong, so it follows the betting markets are too.

    Too many people gambling on politics gamble with their hearts, not their heads. It's like Dr Foxy putting a tenner every August on Leicester to win the Premiership. Just once in a lifetime it comes off, but normally he's simply contributing to Shadsy's Christmas Party.
    In like manner many people would like to believe the Tories, Labour LibDems are doing well, so bet on them. They talk to their friends and family, most of whom think the same way that they do.
    And traditional Liberals don't gamble. The Tories are the bookmakers party. Or were.
    It's one of the reasons I like this site. People gamble thoughtfully. Some of them, anyway.
  • Noo said:

    British Airways is a shit service I refuse to use.

    On more than one occasion they've lost or misplaced my luggage, one time for a wedding in New York and my morning suit and most of my clothes ended up in Australia I think.

    They also billed me four times for the same journey once.

    If BA were a pizza topping they'd be pineapple.

    Talking about airlines, I'm quite happy for the police to user rubber bullets on Extinction Rebellion splitters this week if they actually do use drones at Heathrow.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/29/holidaymakers-face-flight-chaos-extinction-rebellion-splinter/

    You would like to see the use of firearms on people as a summary punishment for criminal activity? Is that in lieu of arresting them, or just an additional frisson of violence you'd like to see added to the equation?
    These bellends could bring down a few airplanes, they need to know that there will be serious consequences for them.
    Life imprisonment. Don’t have to bring one down, just endanger it.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    British Airways is a shit service I refuse to use.

    On more than one occasion they've lost or misplaced my luggage, one time for a wedding in New York and my morning suit and most of my clothes ended up in Australia I think.

    They also billed me four times for the same journey once.

    If BA were a pizza topping they'd be pineapple.

    Talking about airlines, I'm quite happy for the police to user rubber bullets on Extinction Rebellion splitters this week if they actually do use drones at Heathrow.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/29/holidaymakers-face-flight-chaos-extinction-rebellion-splinter/

    You would like to see the use of firearms on people as a summary punishment for criminal activity? Is that in lieu of arresting them, or just an additional frisson of violence you'd like to see added to the equation?
    These bellends could bring down a few airplanes, they need to know that there will be serious consequences for them.
    I don't see how, if they stick to what they claim they are going to do. They are NOT planning to fly drones in the path of aeroplanes.
    If someone breaks the law, the normal course of action is to arrest them. Shooting people to make an example of them is not the way we do things here.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    edited September 2019
    Byronic said:

    His tweet stream is intriguing. He used to be incensed about the supremacy of the English language in the EU (and elsewhere), now he is annoyed but weary. Almost resigned.

    The other striking thing from his account is how much he, a French journalist in France, tweets about Brexit. It's endless. For good or ill, the world is fascinated by our painful quasi-revolution.

    Similarly, "Black Rod" is right now trending in the USA.

    https://twitter.com/szczygi4/status/1171376468716380160?s=20
    Why isn't Black Road, er, black? :lol:

    Same with Black Widow in the MCU :lol::lol:
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited September 2019
    Byronic said:

    His tweet stream is intriguing. He used to be incensed about the supremacy of the English language in the EU (and elsewhere), now he is annoyed but weary. Almost resigned.

    The other striking thing from his account is how much he, a French journalist in France, tweets about Brexit. It's endless. For good or ill, the world is fascinated by our painful quasi-revolution.
    Trolling from the new Commission:
    https://twitter.com/MartinDaubney/status/1171316402759852032
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    malcolmg said:

    You know if you’re in the metropolitan liberal elite if you’re discussing the slipping standards of British Airways. ;)

    Charles will be along to regale us of platinum, titanium , gold or whatever the super elite get for airmiles these days and to inform us that first class is not what it used to be.
    Emirates and Etihad are the best.
    Qatar pretty good too. Except for the 787 in the cheap seats...
    Thai's pretty good too. And the hostesses are very often stunners.
  • British Airways is a shit service I refuse to use.

    On more than one occasion they've lost or misplaced my luggage, one time for a wedding in New York and my morning suit and most of my clothes ended up in Australia I think.

    They also billed me four times for the same journey once.

    If BA were a pizza topping they'd be pineapple.

    Talking about airlines, I'm quite happy for the police to user rubber bullets on Extinction Rebellion splitters this week if they actually do use drones at Heathrow.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/29/holidaymakers-face-flight-chaos-extinction-rebellion-splinter/

    My wife is flying back in via LHR on 13th. That would be a very bad, and stupid even by their lights, thing.

  • malcolmg said:

    You know if you’re in the metropolitan liberal elite if you’re discussing the slipping standards of British Airways. ;)

    Charles will be along to regale us of platinum, titanium , gold or whatever the super elite get for airmiles these days and to inform us that first class is not what it used to be.
    Emirates and Etihad are the best.
    Qatar pretty good too. Except for the 787 in the cheap seats...
    What are cheap seats?

    And yes Qatar should have been on my list.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,551
    I've been looking at the political values, % Leave and demographic measures of each constituency to find the most typical constituency - the bellwether which encapsulates the national picture. I think it used to be said to be Basildon.

    My conclusion is that it is HIGH PEAK.

    51% Leave, centrist political values, average demographic measures.

    The Baxter prediction also encapsulates the national picture.
    For High Peak,
    Lab/LD is predicted at 48%
    Con/BXP is predicted at 47%.

    But Con gain the seat from Lab with a 0.4% majority because the Lab/LD split is forecast to be more evenly split than the Con/BXP split. It's extremely close, Tactical voting will make all the difference.

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=High Peak

  • Noo said:

    Noo said:

    British Airways is a shit service I refuse to use.

    On more than one occasion they've lost or misplaced my luggage, one time for a wedding in New York and my morning suit and most of my clothes ended up in Australia I think.

    They also billed me four times for the same journey once.

    If BA were a pizza topping they'd be pineapple.

    Talking about airlines, I'm quite happy for the police to user rubber bullets on Extinction Rebellion splitters this week if they actually do use drones at Heathrow.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/29/holidaymakers-face-flight-chaos-extinction-rebellion-splinter/

    You would like to see the use of firearms on people as a summary punishment for criminal activity? Is that in lieu of arresting them, or just an additional frisson of violence you'd like to see added to the equation?
    These bellends could bring down a few airplanes, they need to know that there will be serious consequences for them.
    I don't see how, if they stick to what they claim they are going to do. They are NOT planning to fly drones in the path of aeroplanes.
    If someone breaks the law, the normal course of action is to arrest them. Shooting people to make an example of them is not the way we do things here.
    I was clear that using live ammo wasn't what I want, that's why I suggest rubber bullets.
  • Noo said:

    Noo said:

    British Airways is a shit service I refuse to use.

    On more than one occasion they've lost or misplaced my luggage, one time for a wedding in New York and my morning suit and most of my clothes ended up in Australia I think.

    They also billed me four times for the same journey once.

    If BA were a pizza topping they'd be pineapple.

    Talking about airlines, I'm quite happy for the police to user rubber bullets on Extinction Rebellion splitters this week if they actually do use drones at Heathrow.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/29/holidaymakers-face-flight-chaos-extinction-rebellion-splinter/

    You would like to see the use of firearms on people as a summary punishment for criminal activity? Is that in lieu of arresting them, or just an additional frisson of violence you'd like to see added to the equation?
    These bellends could bring down a few airplanes, they need to know that there will be serious consequences for them.
    I don't see how, if they stick to what they claim they are going to do. They are NOT planning to fly drones in the path of aeroplanes.
    If someone breaks the law, the normal course of action is to arrest them. Shooting people to make an example of them is not the way we do things here.
    No, you just did it in Derry and Amritsar! :trollface:
  • malcolmg said:

    You know if you’re in the metropolitan liberal elite if you’re discussing the slipping standards of British Airways. ;)

    Charles will be along to regale us of platinum, titanium , gold or whatever the super elite get for airmiles these days and to inform us that first class is not what it used to be.
    Emirates and Etihad are the best.
    Qatar pretty good too. Except for the 787 in the cheap seats...
    What are cheap seats?

    And yes Qatar should have been on my list.
    First Class = Snob Class
    Business = Spiv Class
    Economy = Steerage
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    British Airways is a shit service I refuse to use.

    On more than one occasion they've lost or misplaced my luggage, one time for a wedding in New York and my morning suit and most of my clothes ended up in Australia I think.

    They also billed me four times for the same journey once.

    If BA were a pizza topping they'd be pineapple.

    Talking about airlines, I'm quite happy for the police to user rubber bullets on Extinction Rebellion splitters this week if they actually do use drones at Heathrow.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/29/holidaymakers-face-flight-chaos-extinction-rebellion-splinter/

    You would like to see the use of firearms on people as a summary punishment for criminal activity? Is that in lieu of arresting them, or just an additional frisson of violence you'd like to see added to the equation?
    These bellends could bring down a few airplanes, they need to know that there will be serious consequences for them.
    I don't see how, if they stick to what they claim they are going to do. They are NOT planning to fly drones in the path of aeroplanes.
    If someone breaks the law, the normal course of action is to arrest them. Shooting people to make an example of them is not the way we do things here.
    I was clear that using live ammo wasn't what I want, that's why I suggest rubber bullets.
    I'm aware of a company with the technology to intercept and redirect drones. One of my sons sometimes sells their kit.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    British Airways is a shit service I refuse to use.

    On more than one occasion they've lost or misplaced my luggage, one time for a wedding in New York and my morning suit and most of my clothes ended up in Australia I think.

    They also billed me four times for the same journey once.

    If BA were a pizza topping they'd be pineapple.

    Talking about airlines, I'm quite happy for the police to user rubber bullets on Extinction Rebellion splitters this week if they actually do use drones at Heathrow.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/29/holidaymakers-face-flight-chaos-extinction-rebellion-splinter/

    You would like to see the use of firearms on people as a summary punishment for criminal activity? Is that in lieu of arresting them, or just an additional frisson of violence you'd like to see added to the equation?
    These bellends could bring down a few airplanes, they need to know that there will be serious consequences for them.
    I don't see how, if they stick to what they claim they are going to do. They are NOT planning to fly drones in the path of aeroplanes.
    If someone breaks the law, the normal course of action is to arrest them. Shooting people to make an example of them is not the way we do things here.
    I was clear that using live ammo wasn't what I want, that's why I suggest rubber bullets.
    It's still shooting them, when simply handcuffing and taking them to a police cell them will do the trick. You might as well be advocating they get hit with an iron bar before being arrested.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    O'Rourke is conducting an interesting electoral experiment...

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/09/10/beto-orourke-campaign-2020-carefree-228047
    Let’s go ahead and call it Beto’s “fuck-it phase.”

    “That’s where I think he’s at now,” Moses Mercado, a Democratic lobbyist from Texas, told me. “He’s like, okay, well, screw it.”

    “Eff it,” Austin-based Republican strategist Brendan Steinhauser said.

    “He has no fucks to give,” added Jay Surdukowski, an attorney and activist who is one of O’Rourke’s most devoted backers in New Hampshire.

    “This feels right to me,” O’Rourke said when I asked him about how he’s currently campaigning when he met with reporters by the stainless-steel beer tanks at Backlash. He said this was “the way politics should be.”...


    FWIW, his Texas primary polling is still looking quite decent.
  • Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    British Airways is a shit service I refuse to use.

    On more than one occasion they've lost or misplaced my luggage, one time for a wedding in New York and my morning suit and most of my clothes ended up in Australia I think.

    They also billed me four times for the same journey once.

    If BA were a pizza topping they'd be pineapple.

    Talking about airlines, I'm quite happy for the police to user rubber bullets on Extinction Rebellion splitters this week if they actually do use drones at Heathrow.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/29/holidaymakers-face-flight-chaos-extinction-rebellion-splinter/

    You would like to see the use of firearms on people as a summary punishment for criminal activity? Is that in lieu of arresting them, or just an additional frisson of violence you'd like to see added to the equation?
    These bellends could bring down a few airplanes, they need to know that there will be serious consequences for them.
    I don't see how, if they stick to what they claim they are going to do. They are NOT planning to fly drones in the path of aeroplanes.
    If someone breaks the law, the normal course of action is to arrest them. Shooting people to make an example of them is not the way we do things here.
    I was clear that using live ammo wasn't what I want, that's why I suggest rubber bullets.
    It's still shooting them, when simply handcuffing and taking them to a police cell them will do the trick. You might as well be advocating they get hit with an iron bar before being arrested.
    If ISIS pulled this stunt they'd get shot, ISIS needs to learn that we take this stuff seriously.
  • Barnesian said:

    I've been looking at the political values, % Leave and demographic measures of each constituency to find the most typical constituency - the bellwether which encapsulates the national picture. I think it used to be said to be Basildon.

    My conclusion is that it is HIGH PEAK.

    51% Leave, centrist political values, average demographic measures.

    The Baxter prediction also encapsulates the national picture.
    For High Peak,
    Lab/LD is predicted at 48%
    Con/BXP is predicted at 47%.

    But Con gain the seat from Lab with a 0.4% majority because the Lab/LD split is forecast to be more evenly split than the Con/BXP split. It's extremely close, Tactical voting will make all the difference.

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/seatdetails.py?seat=High Peak

    Thank you for that. Very informative. I take it this means, loosely, that a GE fought on leave/remain lines favours the Conservatives at present levels of support.

    Useful insight for betting.
  • Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    British Airways is a shit service I refuse to use.

    On more than one occasion they've lost or misplaced my luggage, one time for a wedding in New York and my morning suit and most of my clothes ended up in Australia I think.

    They also billed me four times for the same journey once.

    If BA were a pizza topping they'd be pineapple.

    Talking about airlines, I'm quite happy for the police to user rubber bullets on Extinction Rebellion splitters this week if they actually do use drones at Heathrow.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/29/holidaymakers-face-flight-chaos-extinction-rebellion-splinter/

    You would like to see the use of firearms on people as a summary punishment for criminal activity? Is that in lieu of arresting them, or just an additional frisson of violence you'd like to see added to the equation?
    These bellends could bring down a few airplanes, they need to know that there will be serious consequences for them.
    I don't see how, if they stick to what they claim they are going to do. They are NOT planning to fly drones in the path of aeroplanes.
    If someone breaks the law, the normal course of action is to arrest them. Shooting people to make an example of them is not the way we do things here.
    I was clear that using live ammo wasn't what I want, that's why I suggest rubber bullets.
    It's still shooting them, when simply handcuffing and taking them to a police cell them will do the trick. You might as well be advocating they get hit with an iron bar before being arrested.
    If ISIS pulled this stunt they'd get shot, ISIS needs to learn that we take this stuff seriously.
    What do you expect from people that draw their politics from experimenting with a bunch of psychedelic medicines?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,316
    One of the great things about pro rogation is you can now watch TV news without a bunch of flag waving dickheads yelling in the background
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,729

    This is the problem:

    406 constituencies voted to Leave, 242 voted to remain.
    148 Labour constituencies voted to Leave, 84 voted to Remain
    247 Tory constituencies voted to Leave, 80 voted to Remain.
    9 regions voted to Leave, 3 voted to Remain.
    160 MP’s voted to Leave 486 voted to Remain.

    Which is why we need an election.

    BUT - it seems vanishingly unlikely that BJ can win big, so we will remain in stasis, unable to decide anything, until the EU finally boots us out without a Deal. I can't really see a way that avoids No Deal.

    "vanishingly unlikely"? The YouGov poll waves......
    What we are most likely to get is Tories largest party but out of power, with some kind of bodged up "coalition of the losers", led by the most unpopular UK politician in history ensconced in No 10. Things could get a whole lot worse.
    So you've gone from a Tory majority being "vanishingly unlikely" to "least likely" in two posts.

    OK.
    As a matter of fact, I haven't. I think it is vanishingly unlikely that BJ will win decisively and the most likely outcome an unstable arrangement led by Corbyn.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,428
    Dominic Cummings really is a patronizing little toad. He’s in his own Westminster bubble if he thinks Remainers are all rich and Leavers are all poor.

    He is wealthy himself!
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    British Airways is a shit service I refuse to use.

    On more than one occasion they've lost or misplaced my luggage, one time for a wedding in New York and my morning suit and most of my clothes ended up in Australia I think.

    They also billed me four times for the same journey once.

    If BA were a pizza topping they'd be pineapple.

    Talking about airlines, I'm quite happy for the police to user rubber bullets on Extinction Rebellion splitters this week if they actually do use drones at Heathrow.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/29/holidaymakers-face-flight-chaos-extinction-rebellion-splinter/

    You would like to see the use of firearms on people as a summary punishment for criminal activity? Is that in lieu of arresting them, or just an additional frisson of violence you'd like to see added to the equation?
    These bellends could bring down a few airplanes, they need to know that there will be serious consequences for them.
    I don't see how, if they stick to what they claim they are going to do. They are NOT planning to fly drones in the path of aeroplanes.
    If someone breaks the law, the normal course of action is to arrest them. Shooting people to make an example of them is not the way we do things here.
    I was clear that using live ammo wasn't what I want, that's why I suggest rubber bullets.
    It's still shooting them, when simply handcuffing and taking them to a police cell them will do the trick. You might as well be advocating they get hit with an iron bar before being arrested.
    If ISIS pulled this stunt they'd get shot, ISIS needs to learn that we take this stuff seriously.
    I look forward to the roll-out of the "treat them like they're ISIS" manual of policing. See someone jumping a red light? Ram them in case they're a suicide bomber. Someone shouts abuse at an MP from across the street? Pick them off because /how do we know they don't have a knife?/
  • Dominic Cummings really is a patronizing little toad. He’s in his own Westminster bubble if he thinks Remainers are all rich and Leavers are all poor.

    He is wealthy himself!

    They see working-class Remainers the same way that Champagne socialists see working-class Tories.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344

    One of the great things about pro rogation is you can now watch TV news without a bunch of flag waving dickheads yelling in the background

    That's the motivation for the 'F**k it, just get it done Party'!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    British Airways is a shit service I refuse to use.

    On more than one occasion they've lost or misplaced my luggage, one time for a wedding in New York and my morning suit and most of my clothes ended up in Australia I think.

    They also billed me four times for the same journey once.

    If BA were a pizza topping they'd be pineapple.

    Talking about airlines, I'm quite happy for the police to user rubber bullets on Extinction Rebellion splitters this week if they actually do use drones at Heathrow.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/29/holidaymakers-face-flight-chaos-extinction-rebellion-splinter/

    You would like to see the use of firearms on people as a summary punishment for criminal activity? Is that in lieu of arresting them, or just an additional frisson of violence you'd like to see added to the equation?
    These bellends could bring down a few airplanes, they need to know that there will be serious consequences for them.
    I don't see how, if they stick to what they claim they are going to do. They are NOT planning to fly drones in the path of aeroplanes.
    If someone breaks the law, the normal course of action is to arrest them. Shooting people to make an example of them is not the way we do things here.
    I was clear that using live ammo wasn't what I want, that's why I suggest rubber bullets.
    I'm aware of a company with the technology to intercept and redirect drones. One of my sons sometimes sells their kit.
    Can you post a link?
  • Dominic Cummings really is a patronizing little toad. He’s in his own Westminster bubble if he thinks Remainers are all rich and Leavers are all poor.

    He is wealthy himself!

    And Farage :)
  • Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    British Airways is a shit service I refuse to use.

    On more than one occasion they've lost or misplaced my luggage, one time for a wedding in New York and my morning suit and most of my clothes ended up in Australia I think.

    They also billed me four times for the same journey once.

    If BA were a pizza topping they'd be pineapple.

    Talking about airlines, I'm quite happy for the police to user rubber bullets on Extinction Rebellion splitters this week if they actually do use drones at Heathrow.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/29/holidaymakers-face-flight-chaos-extinction-rebellion-splinter/

    You would like to see the use of firearms on people as a summary punishment for criminal activity? Is that in lieu of arresting them, or just an additional frisson of violence you'd like to see added to the equation?
    These bellends could bring down a few airplanes, they need to know that there will be serious consequences for them.
    I don't see how, if they stick to what they claim they are going to do. They are NOT planning to fly drones in the path of aeroplanes.
    If someone breaks the law, the normal course of action is to arrest them. Shooting people to make an example of them is not the way we do things here.
    I was clear that using live ammo wasn't what I want, that's why I suggest rubber bullets.
    It's still shooting them, when simply handcuffing and taking them to a police cell them will do the trick. You might as well be advocating they get hit with an iron bar before being arrested.
    If ISIS pulled this stunt they'd get shot, ISIS needs to learn that we take this stuff seriously.
    I look forward to the roll-out of the "treat them like they're ISIS" manual of policing. See someone jumping a red light? Ram them in case they're a suicide bomber. Someone shouts abuse at an MP from across the street? Pick them off because /how do we know they don't have a knife?/
    This is limited solely for soap dodgers at Heathrow.
  • malcolmg said:

    You know if you’re in the metropolitan liberal elite if you’re discussing the slipping standards of British Airways. ;)

    Charles will be along to regale us of platinum, titanium , gold or whatever the super elite get for airmiles these days and to inform us that first class is not what it used to be.
    Emirates and Etihad are the best.
    Qatar pretty good too. Except for the 787 in the cheap seats...
    Thai's pretty good too. And the hostesses are very often stunners.
    Nah. The accountants fecked it up by putting in seats 9 across instead of 8. And then made them “lighter” (trans “harder”). It could be a wonderful airplane. It isn’t. Not bad in the posh seats.
  • The irony is that while the EU (which we are leaving) runs on English, our own parliament conducts its affairs in Norman French. Perhaps he'd feel more at home in Westminster.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,729
    eristdoof said:

    This is the problem:

    406 constituencies voted to Leave, 242 voted to remain.
    148 Labour constituencies voted to Leave, 84 voted to Remain
    247 Tory constituencies voted to Leave, 80 voted to Remain.
    9 regions voted to Leave, 3 voted to Remain.
    160 MP’s voted to Leave 486 voted to Remain.

    Which is why we need an election.

    BUT - it seems vanishingly unlikely that BJ can win big, so we will remain in stasis, unable to decide anything, until the EU finally boots us out without a Deal. I can't really see a way that avoids No Deal.

    "vanishingly unlikely"? The YouGov poll waves......
    What we are most likely to get is Tories largest party but out of power, with some kind of bodged up "coalition of the losers", led by the most unpopular UK politician in history ensconced in No 10. Things could get a whole lot worse.
    As the largest party, the Conservatives would be the losers if they can't find enough MPs to form a coalition. That's how politics works.
    Yes, I get that. But a Corbyn-led arranaement will soon run into trouble and there is very likely to be a mighty voter backlash which would put his partners (LibDems and SNP, presumably) in a pretty awkward spot. Blackford and Swinson should be careful of what they wish for. The law of unintended political consequences has some way to run.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,360
    kle4 said:

    One striking feature of the comments this morning is how very poster - Leave or Remain - seems to think public opinion is on their side. Presumably a symptom of the echo chamber response.

    Well, in the Civil War, both factions were sure God was on their side.
    I would love mps to start using divine providence as an argument. They essentially do just substituting the word god for public
    'Vox populi, vox dei'

  • You know if you’re in the metropolitan liberal elite if you’re discussing the slipping standards of British Airways. ;)

    I have always found British Airways a perfectly adequate carrier in all three classes of cabin. LHR T5 is a great terminal. In this as in everything else I seem to be totally at odds with the received wisdom.
  • Byronic said:


    The other striking thing from his account is how much he, a French journalist in France, tweets about Brexit. It's endless. For good or ill, the world is fascinated by our painful quasi-revolution.

    Always with the Yookay-centricity, Sea..er..Byronic.

    It can be overdone. Margaret Atwood on R4 this am was asked if Brexit had influenced the writing of The Testaments, her sequel to The Handmaid's Tale. After a short, nonplussed silence, she replied that she thought it more likely that THT had influenced Brexit (said with a sardonic laugh, I hasten to add).
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    edited September 2019
    TOPPING said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    British Airways is a shit service I refuse to use.

    On more than one occasion they've lost or misplaced my luggage, one time for a wedding in New York and my morning suit and most of my clothes ended up in Australia I think.

    They also billed me four times for the same journey once.

    If BA were a pizza topping they'd be pineapple.

    Talking about airlines, I'm quite happy for the police to user rubber bullets on Extinction Rebellion splitters this week if they actually do use drones at Heathrow.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/29/holidaymakers-face-flight-chaos-extinction-rebellion-splinter/

    You would like to see the use of firearms on people as a summary punishment for criminal activity? Is that in lieu of arresting them, or just an additional frisson of violence you'd like to see added to the equation?
    These bellends could bring down a few airplanes, they need to know that there will be serious consequences for them.
    I don't see how, if they stick to what they claim they are going to do. They are NOT planning to fly drones in the path of aeroplanes.
    If someone breaks the law, the normal course of action is to arrest them. Shooting people to make an example of them is not the way we do things here.
    I was clear that using live ammo wasn't what I want, that's why I suggest rubber bullets.
    I'm aware of a company with the technology to intercept and redirect drones. One of my sons sometimes sells their kit.
    Can you post a link?
    I know roughly where they are, but that's it. I'll check with my son and PM you.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    eristdoof said:

    This is the problem:

    406 constituencies voted to Leave, 242 voted to remain.
    148 Labour constituencies voted to Leave, 84 voted to Remain
    247 Tory constituencies voted to Leave, 80 voted to Remain.
    9 regions voted to Leave, 3 voted to Remain.
    160 MP’s voted to Leave 486 voted to Remain.

    Which is why we need an election.

    BUT - it seems vanishingly unlikely that BJ can win big, so we will remain in stasis, unable to decide anything, until the EU finally boots us out without a Deal. I can't really see a way that avoids No Deal.

    "vanishingly unlikely"? The YouGov poll waves......
    What we are most likely to get is Tories largest party but out of power, with some kind of bodged up "coalition of the losers", led by the most unpopular UK politician in history ensconced in No 10. Things could get a whole lot worse.
    As the largest party, the Conservatives would be the losers if they can't find enough MPs to form a coalition. That's how politics works.
    Yes, I get that. But a Corbyn-led arranaement will soon run into trouble and there is very likely to be a mighty voter backlash which would put his partners (LibDems and SNP, presumably) in a pretty awkward spot. Blackford and Swinson should be careful of what they wish for. The law of unintended political consequences has some way to run.
    Could there also be a "mighty voter backlash" at a Conservative-led grouping that had 45% of the popular vote? Or does it only run one way?
  • Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    British Airways is a shit service I refuse to use.

    On more than one occasion they've lost or misplaced my luggage, one time for a wedding in New York and my morning suit and most of my clothes ended up in Australia I think.

    They also billed me four times for the same journey once.

    If BA were a pizza topping they'd be pineapple.

    Talking about airlines, I'm quite happy for the police to user rubber bullets on Extinction Rebellion splitters this week if they actually do use drones at Heathrow.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/29/holidaymakers-face-flight-chaos-extinction-rebellion-splinter/

    You would like to see the use of firearms on people as a summary punishment for criminal activity? Is that in lieu of arresting them, or just an additional frisson of violence you'd like to see added to the equation?
    These bellends could bring down a few airplanes, they need to know that there will be serious consequences for them.
    I don't see how, if they stick to what they claim they are going to do. They are NOT planning to fly drones in the path of aeroplanes.
    If someone breaks the law, the normal course of action is to arrest them. Shooting people to make an example of them is not the way we do things here.
    I was clear that using live ammo wasn't what I want, that's why I suggest rubber bullets.
    It's still shooting them, when simply handcuffing and taking them to a police cell them will do the trick. You might as well be advocating they get hit with an iron bar before being arrested.
    If ISIS pulled this stunt they'd get shot, ISIS needs to learn that we take this stuff seriously.
    But ISIS generally are looking to injure or maim people, and therefore shooting them before they can do so may be a priority. So far, these environmentalists haven't killed anyone, and have just caused disruption.

    Though I do fear it's a small step for some of their more lunatic contingent, by accident or deliberately.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,153

    One of the great things about pro rogation is you can now watch TV news without a bunch of flag waving dickheads yelling in the background

    If a way could be found to keep it shut until 2040 that would be excellent. :D
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,639

    eristdoof said:

    This is the problem:

    406 constituencies voted to Leave, 242 voted to remain.
    148 Labour constituencies voted to Leave, 84 voted to Remain
    247 Tory constituencies voted to Leave, 80 voted to Remain.
    9 regions voted to Leave, 3 voted to Remain.
    160 MP’s voted to Leave 486 voted to Remain.

    Which is why we need an election.

    BUT - it seems vanishingly unlikely that BJ can win big, so we will remain in stasis, unable to decide anything, until the EU finally boots us out without a Deal. I can't really see a way that avoids No Deal.

    "vanishingly unlikely"? The YouGov poll waves......
    What we are most likely to get is Tories largest party but out of power, with some kind of bodged up "coalition of the losers", led by the most unpopular UK politician in history ensconced in No 10. Things could get a whole lot worse.
    As the largest party, the Conservatives would be the losers if they can't find enough MPs to form a coalition. That's how politics works.
    Yes, I get that. But a Corbyn-led arranaement will soon run into trouble and there is very likely to be a mighty voter backlash which would put his partners (LibDems and SNP, presumably) in a pretty awkward spot. Blackford and Swinson should be careful of what they wish for. The law of unintended political consequences has some way to run.
    The SNP are hardly going to worry about Leavers outwith Scotland, are they? Likewise the LDs are pretty Remainy anyway. Or am I missing something?
  • There should be penalties for raising a 'point of order' that isn't a point of order

    I'd suggest a week suspension (no pay) and unable to vote in that time - losing money and disenfranchising your constituents should make some of the thickies think twice...
This discussion has been closed.