It’s really sad for our democracy that a large part of the electorate believe the people sacked last night were the ones blocking brexit. The mail or the express won’t tell them that they actually, on the whole voted for the deal, the mail will label them traitors whilst the real Tory traitors occupy the front bench. It’s sad that doing something is better than doing the right thing and that a once proud party is willing to put its own interests before that of the country. David Gauke one vote against his government is expelled JRM countless votes against lounges on the front bench.
If I could offer a suggestion to those who are currently utterly giddy with every rumour and tweet relating to the goings on in parliament.
Stand back and have a look at the bigger picture.
Perhaps even chat with normal people who have rounded lives and don't sit obsessing about politics.
I think you might find that the wider perception is more like:
1. Johnson is trying to get Brexit through
2. Parliament are stopping him implementing the referendum result
For the vast majority of normal people it goes no deeper than that.
Which is why the swivel-eyed headbangers on here are in all likelihood going to get an enormous shock the morning after the GE.
This is precisely what Johnson is relying on.
That the average person is deeply average.
And like you I expect him to be proved correct.
But one lives in hope. One has to. What is the alternative?
I wouldn't recommend using that as a campaigning slogan..
Regardless of the rights, wrongs and potential impact of Brexit the wider perception does appear to be precisely what is happening.
Bozo knows that the average Brexiteer has been gasligjted into a position where they appear to be as thick as fuck. My MP has posted a long letter from the NE Chambers of Commerce setting out in detail their concerns about No Deal, to be met with "what do they know" and "they're biased" responses. Apparently keyboard warriors know more about everything, and that is who Boris wants. His problem is that the same voters are all massive Farage fans...
So how does agrifood resolve all the other markets, taxes and laws...
I understand there are three areas at stake:
- People - Customs - Live animals
People seems to be dealt with by CTA/Schengen opt out for Ireland. Customs can be done by making it a criminal act in each side's domestic law. Live animals os a thorny one but looks like Boris is playing for DUP to back down.
Sorry, but how does making cross-border trade without paying tariffs a criminal act protect the Good Friday Agreement?
you know little of beef farming
Relevance?
if you understood it you wouldnt be asking the question
Why do you waste your time here? You have so much expertise in argiculture and manufacturing. The govt needs you.
Would it help if we obtained a large poster of a mustachioed Boris pointing at you and a "You govt needs you" slogan?
well one half of my family are all Irish beef farmers ( near Aughnacloy ) so when William tells me he undestands how things work on the border how can I resist ?
Just had a very unpleasant experience. Was innocently listening to the calming tones of Sarah Montague at lunchtime, when I heard a repulsive blast from the past. That ginormous turd Michael Forsyth, who the voters of Stirling soundly dismissed in 1997, was on my bloody radio, splurging his usual lies, hatred and bile.
This is why the House of Lords has to go. Reptiles like Forsyth suck at the taxpayers’ teets for decades after losing elections. The vile serpent had the audacity to present himself as a champion of democracy.
A bit strong Stuart. I don't know Lord F but the feedback I've received is that he is a very courteous and extremely bright guy. Came from a generation of Tories influenced by the Manchester school of economists at St Andrews in the 70s. An interesting fellow and not to be dismissed in these kind of terms, however much you may disagree with him. He is also, unassailably, an authentic working-class Scot.
Words fail me.
A bit strong eh?
Clear that you were not in Scotland in the 80s and 90s.
Forsyth was utterly despised, throughout the nation. He managed to unite the (then dominant) Scottish Labour Party, Scottish Liberals, the SNP, half the Scottish Tory party, and the unaligned, against him. He was reviled more than Maggie. Why? Well, Maggie was English. She had an excuse. Forsyth didn’t.
Michael Forsyth is why devolution happened. He was the vital catalyst. Never again would Scots be mis-ruled as they had been under Forsyth.
And the wee bastard hasn’t changed one iota in 22 years.
There, that's a bit more measured. And he did bring back the Stone of Destiny.
Fair doos. In a flippin Land Rover!! 😳
Shame he repatriated it to the wrong bloody burgh. Twat.
Actually a very visibly British Army base, flying the Union Flag, as it was then, and arguably in but not of Edinburgh for political purposes. The optics were interesting at the time, but the argument was that it should go with the Crown regalia of Scotland. There were debates about putting it elsewhere at the time, including Scone. I see Perth is now putting in a bid: best of luck to them!
Couldn't disagree more. Plenty of countries make referendums a key part of their legislation and do it very well. And your two examples of failure are spurious.
As far as Brexit is concerned I would suggest many of those MPs now obstructing or trying to reverse Brexit would never have got elected in 2015 had they been honest and said they would try to reverse the referendum.
The problem is not referendums it is the MPs.
In the case of Brexit, (most) MPs are obviously to a very large extent to blame for this mess - if, as seems pretty clear, the majority of them thought leaving the EU a disaster not to be contemplated, then they should never have voted to hold the referendum in the first place - but it doesn't solve the central problem of trying to treat our representatives as delegates.
By voting contrary to what MPs were willing to stomach in a referendum, and then compounding the situation by voting in another contrarian Parliament, voters have created circumstances - and this isn't deliberate and isn't their fault, but it is what has come about nonetheless - in which continual corrosive damage to democracy is bound to result. We end up with a confused, dithering and impotent Parliament which contains a majority of members that wish either to comply with the instruction given in the referendum half-heartedly or not at all, and cannot agree on any resolution at all as a result. Meanwhile, a large chunk of the Leave electorate now feels insulted and robbed. It's madness.
In Scotland the situation is somewhat different. Voters have rejected independence in a plebiscite, but keep returning secessionist Parliaments - there is sufficient support for one thing but not quite enough for the other. The risk is that, therefore, both Scotland and the rest of the UK become stuck in a rut: as long as this stalemate exists, the Scottish Government will keep trying to engineer independence referendums and the rest of the UK will be under constant threat of dissolution, with no idea as to if or when it might happen. It's not exactly ideal...
But if you outlaw referendums the SNP would have a legitimate case fir simply declaring independence as soon as they were in power. Against the wishes of the majority.
What should happen is that referendums should be binding. MPs should not be able to reject the result.
Then they need to be specific or supported by the current govt, preferably both.
Just had a very unpleasant experience. Was innocently listening to the calming tones of Sarah Montague at lunchtime, when I heard a repulsive blast from the past. That ginormous turd Michael Forsyth, who the voters of Stirling soundly dismissed in 1997, was on my bloody radio, splurging his usual lies, hatred and bile.
This is why the House of Lords has to go. Reptiles like Forsyth suck at the taxpayers’ teets for decades after losing elections. The vile serpent had the audacity to present himself as a champion of democracy.
A bit strong Stuart. I don't know Lord F but the feedback I've received is that he is a very courteous and extremely bright guy. Came from a generation of Tories influenced by the Manchester school of economists at St Andrews in the 70s. An interesting fellow and not to be dismissed in these kind of terms, however much you may disagree with him. He is also, unassailably, an authentic working-class Scot.
Words fail me.
A bit strong eh?
Clear that you were not in Scotland in the 80s and 90s.
Forsyth was utterly despised, throughout the nation. He managed to unite the (then dominant) Scottish Labour Party, Scottish Liberals, the SNP, half the Scottish Tory party, and the unaligned, against him. He was reviled more than Maggie. Why? Well, Maggie was English. She had an excuse. Forsyth didn’t.
Michael Forsyth is why devolution happened. He was the vital catalyst. Never again would Scots be mis-ruled as they had been under Forsyth.
And the wee bastard hasn’t changed one iota in 22 years.
There, that's a bit more measured. And he did bring back the Stone of Destiny.
Oddly enough it was that very episode which made me suddenly realise how Scotland and Britain were diverging in their attitudes to national symbols of this kind. I was struck how little account was being taken by the wider populace, and it wasn't just because of the identity of the particular satrap making this generous gift to the Scots of what was their own to begin with. Yet it didn't stop the Scots from voting for devolution a few years later.
I have a memory of watching the film of the procession up the High Street, mostly in silence by a very thin crowd, and Mr Forsyth passing in solitary splendour, bekilted.
Wee Gobshite Forsyth in a kilt.
Folk seeking to explain Scottish devolution to some future generation could hardly wish for a better introductory image. So much absurd symbolism from a party that then liked to think of itself as ultra-modern and trend-setting.
So how does agrifood resolve all the other markets, taxes and laws...
I understand there are three areas at stake:
- People - Customs - Live animals
People seems to be dealt with by CTA/Schengen opt out for Ireland. Customs can be done by making it a criminal act in each side's domestic law. Live animals os a thorny one but looks like Boris is playing for DUP to back down.
Sorry, but how does making cross-border trade without paying tariffs a criminal act protect the Good Friday Agreement?
you know little of beef farming
Relevance?
if you understood it you wouldnt be asking the question
Why do you waste your time here? You have so much expertise in argiculture and manufacturing. The govt needs you.
Would it help if we obtained a large poster of a mustachioed Boris pointing at you and a "You govt needs you" slogan?
The same is true of several other people here. They could hardly do worse than the current cabinet. (But maybe they're already in the current cabinet!)
How will Remainers react if there is an election and Boris wins a comfortable majority?
How will it be any different from what we are going through now?
We know it is a mistake and the Govt seem determined to make it. They sure as heck are not listening to Remainers.
If he gets a majority then he gets a majority. I will just note that Remainers, in general, are not the ones threatening violence, intimidation, deportations or civil disorder if we do not get our way...
You conveniently forget Philip Pullman suggesting that Boris should be hanged the other day. Can't think of anything more extreme. The fact is there are lunatics on both sides and if you don 't realise it you're probably one of them.
I see you missed the subclause "in general"...
Not at all. There are many examples of Remainer fanatics - did you not see the guillotines in the crowds last week? What is spectacularly stupid is you trying to infer without a shred of evidence that the leavers have the majority of lunatics - as even if it were true kinda misses the point. It takes only one person as was so amply demonstrated with Jo Cox.
It’s really sad for our democracy that a large part of the electorate believe the people sacked last night were the ones blocking brexit. The mail or the express won’t tell them that they actually, on the whole voted for the deal, the mail will label them traitors whilst the real Tory traitors occupy the front bench. It’s sad that doing something is better than doing the right thing and that a once proud party is willing to put its own interests before that of the country. David Gauke one vote against his government is expelled JRM countless votes against lounges on the front bench.
Wipe the fake tears from your eyes princess.
Last night's vote was crucial in delivering a referendum result voted for by over 17m people.
What utter crap. Soames voted with the marxists and nationalists against his own party on a matter of confidence. He was told beforehand the consequences of doing so but continued nonetheless. Soames decided how to vote and owns the outturn.
Yup. 3 rebellions in 3 decades. Shagger does 3 rebellions before breakfast. Obviously Somasey is the traitor and not Johnson.
If Labour reject an election then for the first time ever I hope the unelected Lords succeed in blocking the law. The undemocratic charge rather fails when the opposition are literally rejecting an election.
Of course, "literally rejecting an election" is nothing at all out of the ordinary, or we'd be having one every month!
Suspending parliament and frustrating the will of the Commons by filibustering n the Lords are somewhat rarer.
All sides are playing fast and lose and it is very sad
What utter crap. Soames voted with the marxists and nationalists against his own party on a matter of confidence. He was told beforehand the consequences of doing so but continued nonetheless. Soames decided how to vote and owns the outturn.
Yup. 3 rebellions in 3 decades. Shagger does 3 rebellions before breakfast. Obviously Somasey is the traitor and not Johnson.
Soames rebelled on a confidence vote. Who else has ever done that without the same fate?
Parliament comes back on Mon 14 Oct. Could Parliament then pass a Bill in time to force PM to get an extension on Sat 19 Oct?
Maybe, maybe not!!!
They would install a new PM to act in the same manner as the bill if it was needed.
Comes back to are there ~322 MPs willing to give Corbyn confidence. Corbyn will NOT give anyone else confidence.
It is incredibly naive to think that the rebel tories were willing to sacrifice a lifetimes career in the tory party spanning decades to stop no deal, then say oh no they have filibustered in the unelected Lords, never mind, eh, let the govt win.
How will Remainers react if there is an election and Boris wins a comfortable majority?
This is the most likely scenario. We will all have to suck it up and then watch what happens as Johnson delivers his "easily manageable" No Deal Brexit.
Leavers are going to be tearing down the doors at the polling stations after Brexit is delayed again.There is a lot of anger out there now.
Thank goodness that this afternoon the Chancellor provided additional funding for more jail places for those committing criminal damage at polling stations.
Huzzah for sensible policies for the modern age.
I didnt mean literally you dolt
In these times how could we and "dolts" worldwide possibly tell ?
Question- now that the Father of the House is an Independent, would that make him more palatable as an interim PM before an election where he isn't standing and has no party?
Probably not. No alternative to Corbyn can be installed without the support of Corbyn, and why would Corbyn sideline himself like that?
Once the principle is established that the Labour leader can be set aside from leadership of a Government in which Labour participates (even as by far the largest constituent,) then what happens if Labour is short of a majority after the next election, but can get over the finishing line with SNP and Lib Dem votes - especially if the latter are necessary. The confidence and supply partners could demand a more palatable alternative to Corbyn be installed as PM, and on what basis could Labour then be seen to refuse?
Just had a very unpleasant experience. Was innocently listening to the calming tones of Sarah Montague at lunchtime, when I heard a repulsive blast from the past. That ginormous turd Michael Forsyth, who the voters of Stirling soundly dismissed in 1997, was on my bloody radio, splurging his usual lies, hatred and bile.
This is why the House of Lords has to go. Reptiles like Forsyth suck at the taxpayers’ teets for decades after losing elections. The vile serpent had the audacity to present himself as a champion of democracy.
A bit strong Stuart. I don't know Lord F but the feedback I've received is that he is a very courteous and extremely bright guy. Came from a generation of Tories influenced by the Manchester school of economists at St Andrews in the 70s. An interesting fellow and not to be dismissed in these kind of terms, however much you may disagree with him. He is also, unassailably, an authentic working-class Scot.
Words fail me.
A bit strong eh?
Clear that you were not in Scotland in the 80s and 90s.
Forsyth was utterly despised, throughout the nation. He managed to unite the (then dominant) Scottish Labour Party, Scottish Liberals, the SNP, half the Scottish Tory party, and the unaligned, against him. He was reviled more than Maggie. Why? Well, Maggie was English. She had an excuse. Forsyth didn’t.
Michael Forsyth is why devolution happened. He was the vital catalyst. Never again would Scots be mis-ruled as they had been under Forsyth.
And the wee bastard hasn’t changed one iota in 22 years.
There, that's a bit more measured. And he did bring back the Stone of Destiny.
Fair doos. In a flippin Land Rover!! 😳
Shame he repatriated it to the wrong bloody burgh. Twat.
No bill and no election and no time to force a bill afterwards?
It would take a heart of stone . . .
I feel like we're missing something here because this is huge, everything comes down to the Lords or its no deal. Very few journalists seem to be focusing on this.
How will Remainers react if there is an election and Boris wins a comfortable majority?
How will it be any different from what we are going through now?
We know it is a mistake and the Govt seem determined to make it. They sure as heck are not listening to Remainers.
If he gets a majority then he gets a majority. I will just note that Remainers, in general, are not the ones threatening violence, intimidation, deportations or civil disorder if we do not get our way...
You conveniently forget Philip Pullman suggesting that Boris should be hanged the other day. Can't think of anything more extreme. The fact is there are lunatics on both sides and if you don 't realise it you're probably one of them.
I see you missed the subclause "in general"...
Not at all. There are many examples of Remainer fanatics - did you not see the guillotines in the crowds last week? What is spectacularly stupid is you trying to infer without a shred of evidence that the leavers have the majority of lunatics - as even if it were true kinda misses the point. It takes only one person as was so amply demonstrated with Jo Cox.
Jo Cox's killer was not exactly dragged from the Dock spouting "Remain! EU forever!"
It’s really sad for our democracy that a large part of the electorate believe the people sacked last night were the ones blocking brexit. The mail or the express won’t tell them that they actually, on the whole voted for the deal, the mail will label them traitors whilst the real Tory traitors occupy the front bench. It’s sad that doing something is better than doing the right thing and that a once proud party is willing to put its own interests before that of the country. David Gauke one vote against his government is expelled JRM countless votes against lounges on the front bench.
The deal is not Brexit.
Even with the deal rejected we would have left in March had the Commons not voted to extend, as far as I can tell all these MPs voted to extend then. They're the reason we didn't leave in March.
As I said this morning, Corbyn has fucked this up.
How does that help Johnson get an election ?
How does it help block No Deal if the Benn Bill falls?
Corbyn could have done a deal today for an election. We could have had a Deal-No Deal election. I can only imagine the internal Labour polling is terrifying on this....
Just had a very unpleasant experience. Was innocently listening to the calming tones of Sarah Montague at lunchtime, when I heard a repulsive blast from the past. That ginormous turd Michael Forsyth, who the voters of Stirling soundly dismissed in 1997, was on my bloody radio, splurging his usual lies, hatred and bile.
This is why the House of Lords has to go. Reptiles like Forsyth suck at the taxpayers’ teets for decades after losing elections. The vile serpent had the audacity to present himself as a champion of democracy.
A bit strong Stuart. I don't know Lord F but the feedback I've received is that he is a very courteous and extremely bright guy. Came from a generation of Tories influenced by the Manchester school of economists at St Andrews in the 70s. An interesting fellow and not to be dismissed in these kind of terms, however much you may disagree with him. He is also, unassailably, an authentic working-class Scot.
Words fail me.
A bit strong eh?
Clear that you were not in Scotland in the 80s and 90s.
Forsyth was utterly despised, throughout the nation. He managed to unite the (then dominant) Scottish Labour Party, Scottish Liberals, the SNP, half the Scottish Tory party, and the unaligned, against him. He was reviled more than Maggie. Why? Well, Maggie was English. She had an excuse. Forsyth didn’t.
Michael Forsyth is why devolution happened. He was the vital catalyst. Never again would Scots be mis-ruled as they had been under Forsyth.
And the wee bastard hasn’t changed one iota in 22 years.
There, that's a bit more measured. And he did bring back the Stone of Destiny.
Fair doos. In a flippin Land Rover!! 😳
Shame he repatriated it to the wrong bloody burgh. Twat.
I'm surprised. Couldn't the Remainer majority simply vote for each person advancing a wrecking amendment not to be heard, and then move immediately to a vote? Or is it simply the case that there are so many amendments to be considered that the entire process couldn't possibly be completed within the available time?
*only* 87, if you're sitting through the night could surely blast through it that way but what do i know.
Just had a very unpleasant experience. Was innocently listening to the calming tones of Sarah Montague at lunchtime, when I heard a repulsive blast from the past. That ginormous turd Michael Forsyth, who the voters of Stirling soundly dismissed in 1997, was on my bloody radio, splurging his usual lies, hatred and bile.
This is why the House of Lords has to go. Reptiles like Forsyth suck at the taxpayers’ teets for decades after losing elections. The vile serpent had the audacity to present himself as a champion of democracy.
A bit strong Stuart. I don't know Lord F but the feedback I've received is that he is a very courteous and extremely bright guy. Came from a generation of Tories influenced by the Manchester school of economists at St Andrews in the 70s. An interesting fellow and not to be dismissed in these kind of terms, however much you may disagree with him. He is also, unassailably, an authentic working-class Scot.
Words fail me.
A bit strong eh?
Clear that you were not in Scotland in the 80s and 90s.
Forsyth was utterly despised, throughout the nation. He managed to unite the (then dominant) Scottish Labour Party, Scottish Liberals, the SNP, half the Scottish Tory party, and the unaligned, against him. He was reviled more than Maggie. Why? Well, Maggie was English. She had an excuse. Forsyth didn’t.
Michael Forsyth is why devolution happened. He was the vital catalyst. Never again would Scots be mis-ruled as they had been under Forsyth.
And the wee bastard hasn’t changed one iota in 22 years.
There, that's a bit more measured. And he did bring back the Stone of Destiny.
Fair doos. In a flippin Land Rover!! 😳
Shame he repatriated it to the wrong bloody burgh. Twat.
Actually a very visibly British Army base, flying the Union Flag, as it was then, and arguably in but not of Edinburgh for political purposes. The optics were interesting at the time, but the argument was that it should go with the Crown regalia of Scotland. There were debates about putting it elsewhere at the time, including Scone. I see Perth is now putting in a bid: best of luck to them!
How will Remainers react if there is an election and Boris wins a comfortable majority?
How will it be any different from what we are going through now?
We know it is a mistake and the Govt seem determined to make it. They sure as heck are not listening to Remainers.
If he gets a majority then he gets a majority. I will just note that Remainers, in general, are not the ones threatening violence, intimidation, deportations or civil disorder if we do not get our way...
You conveniently forget Philip Pullman suggesting that Boris should be hanged the other day. Can't think of anything more extreme. The fact is there are lunatics on both sides and if you don 't realise it you're probably one of them.
I see you missed the subclause "in general"...
Not at all. There are many examples of Remainer fanatics - did you not see the guillotines in the crowds last week? What is spectacularly stupid is you trying to infer without a shred of evidence that the leavers have the majority of lunatics - as even if it were true kinda misses the point. It takes only one person as was so amply demonstrated with Jo Cox.
Jo Cox's killer was not exactly dragged from the Dock spouting "Remain! EU forever!"
And what clueless diehard remainers like you don't realise is that the Tory party is not your party any more.
How can you say that? Maybe he approves of the Tories' current policies and plans.
That surely, makes it his party?
He is a remainer. As such he very much disapproves of the Tories' current plans.
I don't understand why you keep up this line against HYUFD. It's so weird
I would guess the intent is to highlight that HYUFD frequently makes assertions implying that all people who voted leave in 2016 are behind any actions to secure leave, by any means necessary and no matter the cost, implying that none could have changed their mind, when as his own position shows people are certainly able to.
No bill and no election and no time to force a bill afterwards?
It would take a heart of stone . . .
I feel like we're missing something here because this is huge, everything comes down to the Lords or its no deal. Very few journalists seem to be focusing on this.
There's an assumption the Lords will always blink before the Commons. I see no reason they need to now. Especially with the Commons rejecting an election.
How will Remainers react if there is an election and Boris wins a comfortable majority?
How will it be any different from what we are going through now?
We know it is a mistake and the Govt seem determined to make it. They sure as heck are not listening to Remainers.
If he gets a majority then he gets a majority. I will just note that Remainers, in general, are not the ones threatening violence, intimidation, deportations or civil disorder if we do not get our way...
You conveniently forget Philip Pullman suggesting that Boris should be hanged the other day. Can't think of anything more extreme. The fact is there are lunatics on both sides and if you don 't realise it you're probably one of them.
I see you missed the subclause "in general"...
Not at all. There are many examples of Remainer fanatics - did you not see the guillotines in the crowds last week? What is spectacularly stupid is you trying to infer without a shred of evidence that the leavers have the majority of lunatics - as even if it were true kinda misses the point. It takes only one person as was so amply demonstrated with Jo Cox.
Jo Cox's killer was not exactly dragged from the Dock spouting "Remain! EU forever!"
Are you really too thick to understand the point being made? The implications of what you are saying are terrifying.
It’s really sad for our democracy that a large part of the electorate believe the people sacked last night were the ones blocking brexit. The mail or the express won’t tell them that they actually, on the whole voted for the deal, the mail will label them traitors whilst the real Tory traitors occupy the front bench. It’s sad that doing something is better than doing the right thing and that a once proud party is willing to put its own interests before that of the country. David Gauke one vote against his government is expelled JRM countless votes against lounges on the front bench.
Yes, some of the ex-Tory remainers voted for the deal but did so in each case knowing it would be defeated. Would they have voted for it had it been on a knife edge and in the knowledge that their vote might have secured our exit? I seriously doubt that some of them would given that they seem hell bent on delaying Brexit even if that makes a Corbyn government more likely.
Look plank, there's a distinction between breaking a precedent, and breaking the law.
he wont be breaking the law until it is signed into law by the Royal assent. Which can be (legitimately) delayed. Two can play at Parliamentary games.
Your language is unhelpful and betrays both a slightly weak mind as well as a weak argument.
Bills that pass both houses of parliament automatically become law on prorogation.
without royal assent? is that correct? Happy to be corrected if so.
You are duly corrected
From the Institute of Government :
"Any bills that have completed all their parliamentary stages at the point Parliament is prorogued, but have not yet been given Royal Assent (needed for a bill to become an Act of Parliament), receive Royal Assent as part of the prorogation ceremony. During the ceremony, the Clerk of the Crown announces each bill to receive Royal Assent. As each bill is announced, the Clerk of the Parliament then declares "Le Reyne le veult" (the Queen wishes it in Norman French), signifying Assent has been given."
I am enjoying the reversal of positions in the Lords, now that amendments to frustrate a bill passed by the Commons is bad, and considering curtailing their time to debate is good.
Parliament comes back on Mon 14 Oct. Could Parliament then pass a Bill in time to force PM to get an extension on Sat 19 Oct?
Maybe, maybe not!!!
They would install a new PM to act in the same manner as the bill if it was needed.
Comes back to are there ~322 MPs willing to give Corbyn confidence. Corbyn will NOT give anyone else confidence.
It is incredibly naive to think that the rebel tories were willing to sacrifice a lifetimes career in the tory party spanning decades to stop no deal, then say oh no they have filibustered in the unelected Lords, never mind, eh, let the govt win.
Argument might possibly work with end-of-career MPs, although it is worth noting that I can recall vehement statements from at least two of them (Letwin and Spreadsheet Phil) about not facilitating a Corbyn-led Government. But the Lib Dems also have real issues with brand contamination, and there are also the surviving TIGs, several other ex-Labour independents, and Sylvia Hermon to consider - all of whom are very, very anti-Corbyn indeed.
One suspects that a compromise would eventually be reached, but it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that no majority could be assembled for Corbyn, and that Corbyn himself would decline to support an alternative to himself, because of the damage that would do to his own position. In that case, Boris Johnson would remain as caretaker until the clock ran down to zero.
Look plank, there's a distinction between breaking a precedent, and breaking the law.
he wont be breaking the law until it is signed into law by the Royal assent. Which can be (legitimately) delayed. Two can play at Parliamentary games.
Your language is unhelpful and betrays both a slightly weak mind as well as a weak argument.
Bills that pass both houses of parliament automatically become law on prorogation.
without royal assent? is that correct? Happy to be corrected if so.
You are duly corrected
From the Institute of Government :
"Any bills that have completed all their parliamentary stages at the point Parliament is prorogued, but have not yet been given Royal Assent (needed for a bill to become an Act of Parliament), receive Royal Assent as part of the prorogation ceremony. During the ceremony, the Clerk of the Crown announces each bill to receive Royal Assent. As each bill is announced, the Clerk of the Parliament then declares "Le Reyne le veult" (the Queen wishes it in Norman French), signifying Assent has been given."
That isn't really automatic, as there has to be some action to confirm assent. The Clerk could say something different, for example.
And a genuine question - do we actually know what Boris has asked of the EU, other than simply 'no backstop'? I never thought the negotiation was serious, but sometimes even when not being serious genuine detail is worked on. Any detail?
Nobody forced Soames to defy a three line whip on an issue of confidence.
Still not heard one person objecting to this confirm they'd have objected to seeing Cash or Redwood be thrown out if they'd voted against Maastricht on a confidence matter.
This “confidence” point is bollocks. Before 2011 losing a confidence vote meant that the government either (I) resigned or (II) called an election. If it were a confidence matter, last night’s vote should have one of those consequences and it didn’t, and was never going to. Everyone knows that Boris was not going to resign (and didn’t) and the ability to trigger an election has been taken out of the PM’s hands. Given losing last night has had no direct effect on the continuance of his ministry it was not a real confidence vote. In that context removing the whip was a petty and vengeful move.
What utter crap. Soames voted with the marxists and nationalists against his own party on a matter of confidence. He was told beforehand the consequences of doing so but continued nonetheless. Soames decided how to vote and owns the outturn.
Yup. 3 rebellions in 3 decades. Shagger does 3 rebellions before breakfast. Obviously Somasey is the traitor and not Johnson.
It was a confidence vote. Your post is just irrelevant whataboutery.
It’s really sad for our democracy that a large part of the electorate believe the people sacked last night were the ones blocking brexit. The mail or the express won’t tell them that they actually, on the whole voted for the deal, the mail will label them traitors whilst the real Tory traitors occupy the front bench. It’s sad that doing something is better than doing the right thing and that a once proud party is willing to put its own interests before that of the country. David Gauke one vote against his government is expelled JRM countless votes against lounges on the front bench.
The deal is not Brexit.
Even with the deal rejected we would have left in March had the Commons not voted to extend, as far as I can tell all these MPs voted to extend then. They're the reason we didn't leave in March.
It’s not brexit in your mind but it was to the vast majority who wanted to get it over with. I’m afraid none of us can represent what people want because we don’t have a clue but I bet if I went down the pub tonight and asked if anyone was worried about the ECJ they would look at me as if I was bonkers. The people are being conned by right wing foreign owned media with their own agenda.
It’s really sad for our democracy that a large part of the electorate believe the people sacked last night were the ones blocking brexit. The mail or the express won’t tell them that they actually, on the whole voted for the deal, the mail will label them traitors whilst the real Tory traitors occupy the front bench. It’s sad that doing something is better than doing the right thing and that a once proud party is willing to put its own interests before that of the country. David Gauke one vote against his government is expelled JRM countless votes against lounges on the front bench.
The deal is not Brexit.
According to you and 10% of the Conservative Parliamentary Party. Not the Prime Minister, nor the other 90%.
But admittedly a substantially larger part of the wider party.
If Labour reject an election then for the first time ever I hope the unelected Lords succeed in blocking the law. The undemocratic charge rather fails when the opposition are literally rejecting an election.
Of course, "literally rejecting an election" is nothing at all out of the ordinary, or we'd be having one every month!
Suspending parliament and frustrating the will of the Commons by filibustering n the Lords are somewhat rarer.
Q. Which of the following actions do you think the general public will regard as more likely to meet the definition of a "coup":
(a) Extending the normal process for ending a parliamentary session by a mere 4 sitting days longer than is typical
(b) The Speaker repeatedly throwing the Commons parliamentary rulebook out of the window in order to enable what should be illigitimate parliamentary votes all aimed at blocking Brexit
(c) Blocking a general election that would allow the general public to have a say in the whole process
A. Clearly not (a). As for (b), the public should be as concerned with (b) as (c), but as with (a) the subtleties of parliamentary procedure do not register with the vast majority. By contrast, with (c) everyone understands the significance of blocking a general election that would deny the yearning of many or most to give their elected representatives a good kicking. So (c) it is, by a country mile.
It won't be, the LDs and Tory rebels will not vote for Corbyn as PM, at most it will be Ken Clarke but Corbyn likely votes against him too
It will be interesting to see if the 'principles' of Labour remainers, who consider Brexit an existential threat to the countries economic well-being, extend to putting a Tory in as temporary PM.
I suspect Brexit will suddenly become less important than partisan politics.
As I said this morning, Corbyn has fucked this up.
How does that help Johnson get an election ?
Doesn’t need one - prorogue until its too late to have one before 31/10.
Good point. Surely from Johnson point of view, that is the way to go. Leave without an election , 2 and half years, to sort things out.
Though if that is the plan, throwing away any hope of a majority, and creating a load of opponents who know where the bodies are buried, was probably sub-optimal.
I am enjoying the reversal of positions in the Lords, now that amendments to frustrate a bill passed by the Commons is bad, and considering curtailing their time to debate is good.
Indeed. Absolutely pathetic by the usual suspects.
Parliament comes back on Mon 14 Oct. Could Parliament then pass a Bill in time to force PM to get an extension on Sat 19 Oct?
Maybe, maybe not!!!
They would install a new PM to act in the same manner as the bill if it was needed.
Comes back to are there ~322 MPs willing to give Corbyn confidence. Corbyn will NOT give anyone else confidence.
It is incredibly naive to think that the rebel tories were willing to sacrifice a lifetimes career in the tory party spanning decades to stop no deal, then say oh no they have filibustered in the unelected Lords, never mind, eh, let the govt win.
Argument might possibly work with end-of-career MPs, although it is worth noting that I can recall vehement statements from at least two of them (Letwin and Spreadsheet Phil) about not facilitating a Corbyn-led Government. But the Lib Dems also have real issues with brand contamination, and there are also the surviving TIGs, several other ex-Labour independents, and Sylvia Hermon to consider - all of whom are very, very anti-Corbyn indeed.
One suspects that a compromise would eventually be reached, but it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that no majority could be assembled for Corbyn, and that Corbyn himself would decline to support an alternative to himself, because of the damage that would do to his own position. In that case, Boris Johnson would remain as caretaker until the clock ran down to zero.
It may not be against the bounds of possibility but the combined possibilities of we get to mid October with nothing to block no deal, no other path available to parliament to do so, no progress with the EU, and then the rebel alliance failing to agree on a temporary PM are extremely low.
How can the LDs run on a rejoin mandate when they were too stubborn to stop no deal? It would be farcical.
None of them like Corbyn. But it becomes what do you prefer Corbyn constrained by an alliance or no deal, and the answer is Corbyn constrained.
It really should be obvious. For months tory leavers have been posting how perhaps one or two tories might vote against the PM but not many. I said 15-30 would if push came to shove. It will be the same with any step to stop no deal, it is their raison d'etre.
No bill and no election and no time to force a bill afterwards?
It would take a heart of stone . . .
I feel like we're missing something here because this is huge, everything comes down to the Lords or its no deal. Very few journalists seem to be focusing on this.
There's an assumption the Lords will always blink before the Commons. I see no reason they need to now. Especially with the Commons rejecting an election.
Heart of stone ...
Ironic to have seized control from the undemocratic EU, to have it decided in the Lords. The whole thing is a shambles.
Regardless of past rules on confidence votes, and whether it was a good idea or reasonable to make yesterday's vote a confidence vote, fact is that it was one and everyone who still opposed it went in knowing what would happen if they did. It seems to me to diminish their stand to quibble about the rightness or wrongness of it being a confidence vote in the first place. It was, they stood up and were heroes/traitors, either way good for them.
I am enjoying the reversal of positions in the Lords, now that amendments to frustrate a bill passed by the Commons is bad, and considering curtailing their time to debate is good.
To be absolutely fair, the anti-No Dealers would be right to point out that the unelected Lords attempting to veto the elected Commons in the midst of an emergency might be regarded as objectionable. But one might also reasonably contend that an element of hypocrisy is involved.
Of course, if, in retrospect, their Lordships are seen to have played a significant role in facilitating Brexit, then one would expect the replacement or abolition of the Upper House to suddenly become an urgent priority in subsequent Labour and Lib Dem election manifestos...
No bill and no election and no time to force a bill afterwards?
It would take a heart of stone . . .
I feel like we're missing something here because this is huge, everything comes down to the Lords or its no deal. Very few journalists seem to be focusing on this.
There's an assumption the Lords will always blink before the Commons. I see no reason they need to now. Especially with the Commons rejecting an election.
Heart of stone ...
Ironic to have seized control from the undemocratic EU, to have it decided in the Lords. The whole thing is a shambles.
It is a shambles, we need a GE asap to resolve it (hopefully).
Just had a very unpleasant experience. Was innocently listening to the calming tones of Sarah Montague at lunchtime, when I heard a repulsive blast from the past. That ginormous turd Michael Forsyth, who the voters of Stirling soundly dismissed in 1997, was on my bloody radio, splurging his usual lies, hatred and bile.
This is why the House of Lords has to go. Reptiles like Forsyth suck at the taxpayers’ teets for decades after losing elections. The vile serpent had the audacity to present himself as a champion of democracy.
A bit strong Stuart. I don't know Lord F but the feedback I've received is that he is a very courteous and extremely bright guy. Came from a generation of Tories influenced by the Manchester school of economists at St Andrews in the 70s. An interesting fellow and not to be dismissed in these kind of terms, however much you may disagree with him. He is also, unassailably, an authentic working-class Scot.
Words fail me.
A bit strong eh?
Clear that you were not in Scotland in the 80s and 90s.
Forsyth was utterly despised, throughout the nation. He managed to unite the (then dominant) Scottish Labour Party, Scottish Liberals, the SNP, half the Scottish Tory party, and the unaligned, against him. He was reviled more than Maggie. Why? Well, Maggie was English. She had an excuse. Forsyth didn’t.
Michael Forsyth is why devolution happened. He was the vital catalyst. Never again would Scots be mis-ruled as they had been under Forsyth.
And the wee bastard hasn’t changed one iota in 22 years.
There, that's a bit more measured. And he did bring back the Stone of Destiny.
Fair doos. In a flippin Land Rover!! 😳
Shame he repatriated it to the wrong bloody burgh. Twat.
Personally, I would have left the Stone of Destiny, if indeed it is the real stone, in Westminster Abbey. It has a historical context in the 13th C chair that was built for it. We can be self confident enough of our nationhood to accept the facts of history as they happened.
Still it was interesting that a highly unpopular Tory colonial administrator Secretary of State for Scotland should alight on the idea of shipping a lump of granite to Scotland from England as a way of shoring up his position.
My feeling here is that many voters are seething about the behaviour of MPs. Perhaps I live in an echo chamber up here, and I admit I have no time for them, but the mood is definitely uglier than I've experienced before.
I've not been to Boston for nearly a month, but I would tactfully suggest they don't go near the place.
London is probably different, so it isn't helping the North/South divide.
You have to say channels like Sky News have been running under the banner "Brexit Crisis" for so long now that you feel they need to "promote" it to something even more severe.
My feeling here is that many voters are seething about the behaviour of MPs. Perhaps I live in an echo chamber up here, and I admit I have no time for them, but the mood is definitely uglier than I've experienced before.
I've not been to Boston for nearly a month, but I would tactfully suggest they don't go near the place.
London is probably different, so it isn't helping the North/South divide.
Well at my work, a manufacturing company in County Durham, the mood is rather anti Boris as far as I can tell.
Nobody forced Soames to defy a three line whip on an issue of confidence.
Still not heard one person objecting to this confirm they'd have objected to seeing Cash or Redwood be thrown out if they'd voted against Maastricht on a confidence matter.
This “confidence” point is bollocks. Before 2011 losing a confidence vote meant that the government either (I) resigned or (II) called an election. If it were a confidence matter, last night’s vote should have one of those consequences and it didn’t, and was never going to. Everyone knows that Boris was not going to resign (and didn’t) and the ability to trigger an election has been taken out of the PM’s hands. Given losing last night has had no direct effect on the continuance of his ministry it was not a real confidence vote. In that context removing the whip was a petty and vengeful move.
It did have the consequence. The government has (ii) called for an election.
FTPA takes priority over previous precedence, the government can't just call an election they need to put a motion down which they have put down. If the Commons backs the motion there will be an election, if the Commons doesn't then that is the will of the Commons.
Just had a very unpleasant experience. Was innocently listening to the calming tones of Sarah Montague at lunchtime, when I heard a repulsive blast from the past. That ginormous turd Michael Forsyth, who the voters of Stirling soundly dismissed in 1997, was on my bloody radio, splurging his usual lies, hatred and bile.
This is why the House of Lords has to go. Reptiles like Forsyth suck at the taxpayers’ teets for decades after losing elections. The vile serpent had the audacity to present himself as a champion of democracy.
A bit strong Stuart. I don't know Lord F but the feedback I've received is that he is a very courteous and extremely bright guy. Came from a generation of Tories influenced by the Manchester school of economists at St Andrews in the 70s. An interesting fellow and not to be dismissed in these kind of terms, however much you may disagree with him. He is also, unassailably, an authentic working-class Scot.
Words fail me.
A bit strong eh?
Clear that you were not in Scotland in the 80s and 90s.
Forsyth was utterly despised, throughout the nation. He managed to unite the (then dominant) Scottish Labour Party, Scottish Liberals, the SNP, half the Scottish Tory party, and the unaligned, against him. He was reviled more than Maggie. Why? Well, Maggie was English. She had an excuse. Forsyth didn’t.
Michael Forsyth is why devolution happened. He was the vital catalyst. Never again would Scots be mis-ruled as they had been under Forsyth.
And the wee bastard hasn’t changed one iota in 22 years.
There, that's a bit more measured. And he did bring back the Stone of Destiny.
Fair doos. In a flippin Land Rover!! 😳
Shame he repatriated it to the wrong bloody burgh. Twat.
And it's the wrong bloody stone.
Of course it’s the wrong bloody stone.
The English invaders managed to burn the national archives, but they went home with a blatant fake.
Just goes to show: if you lie long enough, hard enough, lies become the new truth.
Just had a very unpleasant experience. Was innocently listening to the calming tones of Sarah Montague at lunchtime, when I heard a repulsive blast from the past. That ginormous turd Michael Forsyth, who the voters of Stirling soundly dismissed in 1997, was on my bloody radio, splurging his usual lies, hatred and bile.
This is why the House of Lords has to go. Reptiles like Forsyth suck at the taxpayers’ teets for decades after losing elections. The vile serpent had the audacity to present himself as a champion of democracy.
A bit strong Stuart. I don't know Lord F but the feedback I've received is that he is a very courteous and extremely bright guy. Came from a generation of Tories influenced by the Manchester school of economists at St Andrews in the 70s. An interesting fellow and not to be dismissed in these kind of terms, however much you may disagree with him. He is also, unassailably, an authentic working-class Scot.
Words fail me.
A bit strong eh?
Clear that you were not in Scotland in the 80s and 90s.
Forsyth was utterly despised, throughout the nation. He managed to unite the (then dominant) Scottish Labour Party, Scottish Liberals, the SNP, half the Scottish Tory party, and the unaligned, against him. He was reviled more than Maggie. Why? Well, Maggie was English. She had an excuse. Forsyth didn’t.
Michael Forsyth is why devolution happened. He was the vital catalyst. Never again would Scots be mis-ruled as they had been under Forsyth.
And the wee bastard hasn’t changed one iota in 22 years.
There, that's a bit more measured. And he did bring back the Stone of Destiny.
Fair doos. In a flippin Land Rover!! 😳
Shame he repatriated it to the wrong bloody burgh. Twat.
And it's the wrong bloody stone.
Of course it’s the wrong bloody stone.
The English invaders managed to burn the national archives, but they went home with a blatant fake.
Just goes to show: if you lie long enough, hard enough, lies become the new truth.
Parliament comes back on Mon 14 Oct. Could Parliament then pass a Bill in time to force PM to get an extension on Sat 19 Oct?
Maybe, maybe not!!!
They would install a new PM to act in the same manner as the bill if it was needed.
Comes back to are there ~322 MPs willing to give Corbyn confidence. Corbyn will NOT give anyone else confidence.
I wonder if there's anything Johnson could do to make it easier for Tory MPs to act against a lifetime of political practise and vote to support a Labour PM?
Just had a very unpleasant experience. Was innocently listening to the calming tones of Sarah Montague at lunchtime, when I heard a repulsive blast from the past. That ginormous turd Michael Forsyth, who the voters of Stirling soundly dismissed in 1997, was on my bloody radio, splurging his usual lies, hatred and bile.
This is why the House of Lords has to go. Reptiles like Forsyth suck at the taxpayers’ teets for decades after losing elections. The vile serpent had the audacity to present himself as a champion of democracy.
A bit strong Stuart. I don't know Lord F but the feedback I've received is that he is a very courteous and extremely bright guy. Came from a generation of Tories influenced by the Manchester school of economists at St Andrews in the 70s. An interesting fellow and not to be dismissed in these kind of terms, however much you may disagree with him. He is also, unassailably, an authentic working-class Scot.
Words fail me.
A bit strong eh?
Clear that you were not in Scotland in the 80s and 90s.
Forsyth was utterly despised, throughout the nation. He managed to unite the (then dominant) Scottish Labour Party, Scottish Liberals, the SNP, half the Scottish Tory party, and the unaligned, against him. He was reviled more than Maggie. Why? Well, Maggie was English. She had an excuse. Forsyth didn’t.
Michael Forsyth is why devolution happened. He was the vital catalyst. Never again would Scots be mis-ruled as they had been under Forsyth.
And the wee bastard hasn’t changed one iota in 22 years.
There, that's a bit more measured. And he did bring back the Stone of Destiny.
Fair doos. In a flippin Land Rover!! 😳
Shame he repatriated it to the wrong bloody burgh. Twat.
Personally, I would have left the Stone of Destiny, if indeed it is the real stone, in Westminster Abbey. It has a historical context in the 13th C chair that was built for it. We can be self confident enough of our nationhood to accept the facts of history as they happened.
Still it was interesting that a highly unpopular Tory colonial administrator Secretary of State for Scotland should alight on the idea of shipping a lump of granite to Scotland from England as a way of shoring up his position.
Actually, sandstone from the Scone area IIRC - so probably a mediaeval manhole cover from Scone Abbey foisted on Edward Longshanks. But there are worse national symbols than a reminder to sort out the drains: Bazalgette would have approved.
It won't be, the LDs and Tory rebels will not vote for Corbyn as PM, at most it will be Ken Clarke but Corbyn likely votes against him too
I don't see Corbyn as PM as a problem given the parliamentary numbers. He could not do anything drastic and would be ousted if he did. Anything has got to be better than No Deal. The Tories have indicated today an increase in public spending, larger than anything in 17 years IIRC...
How will Remainers react if there is an election and Boris wins a comfortable majority?
How will it be any different from what we are going through now?
We know it is a mistake and the Govt seem determined to make it. They sure as heck are not listening to Remainers.
If he gets a majority then he gets a majority. I will just note that Remainers, in general, are not the ones threatening violence, intimidation, deportations or civil disorder if we do not get our way...
You conveniently forget Philip Pullman suggesting that Boris should be hanged the other day. Can't think of anything more extreme. The fact is there are lunatics on both sides and if you don 't realise it you're probably one of them.
I see you missed the subclause "in general"...
Not at all. There are many examples of Remainer fanatics - did you not see the guillotines in the crowds last week? What is spectacularly stupid is you trying to infer without a shred of evidence that the leavers have the majority of lunatics - as even if it were true kinda misses the point. It takes only one person as was so amply demonstrated with Jo Cox.
Jo Cox's killer was not exactly dragged from the Dock spouting "Remain! EU forever!"
Are you really too thick to understand the point being made? The implications of what you are saying are terrifying.
I am obviously too thick to understand the way you express it. So why not explain it more clearly?
If you're a Leaver, but you generally liked Mrs May's deal, and you want to leave the EU in an orderly fashion, who do you vote for?
Boris, presumably. Unless he caves to the BXP in exchange for a pact he is at least saying he wants a deal to leave in orderly fashion. He's the only one who is saying he wants that (Yes yes, Corbyn, but Labour as a vast majority will seek Remain).
Now, will people still do so if they don't believe he is sincere in saying that? In that case, it doesn't matter if they want to leave in orderly fashion, they have to decide if they prefer no deal or Corbyn.
"If you're a Leaver, but you generally liked Mrs May's deal, and you want to leave the EU in an orderly fashion, who do you vote for?"
No one. They're all scum. They lied, and even worse, they're still lying and hardly bothering to pretend any more. The unvarnished truth is they believe they are above the hoi polio and don't need to bother with the opinion of underlings.
What utter crap. Soames voted with the marxists and nationalists against his own party on a matter of confidence. He was told beforehand the consequences of doing so but continued nonetheless. Soames decided how to vote and owns the outturn.
Yup. 3 rebellions in 3 decades. Shagger does 3 rebellions before breakfast. Obviously Somasey is the traitor and not Johnson.
It was a confidence vote. Your post is just irrelevant whataboutery.
I shall take that under advisement based on your expertise on irrelevance and whataboutery
It’s really sad for our democracy that a large part of the electorate believe the people sacked last night were the ones blocking brexit. The mail or the express won’t tell them that they actually, on the whole voted for the deal, the mail will label them traitors whilst the real Tory traitors occupy the front bench. It’s sad that doing something is better than doing the right thing and that a once proud party is willing to put its own interests before that of the country. David Gauke one vote against his government is expelled JRM countless votes against lounges on the front bench.
If you're a Leaver, but you generally liked Mrs May's deal, and you want to leave the EU in an orderly fashion, who do you vote for?
Who is your current MP, how have they voted are key to the decision. Will they stand up for themself or follow the herd.
Beyond that, no party is offering what you want on Brexit, so deciding on other issues or you could try to game a hung parliament and postpone the decision until someone does come back and offer an orderly Brexit.
Yes, Corbyn can be put into bat. This is another option for the remain alliance.
Let me be clear, I will probably be voting Lib Dem because we'll be better off in the EU. But I can't help but cheer for Boris the baddies right now. Does that make me a terrible person ?
Comments
Or the SNP put it all to bed tonight by voting for a GE. Perhaps they are McFrit too.
It would take a heart of stone . . .
But Boris won't budge.....
I love to spread joy and wisdom wherever I go :-)
Folk seeking to explain Scottish devolution to some future generation could hardly wish for a better introductory image. So much absurd symbolism from a party that then liked to think of itself as ultra-modern and trend-setting.
In theory, he does not need an election.
Last night's vote was crucial in delivering a referendum result voted for by over 17m people.
Once the principle is established that the Labour leader can be set aside from leadership of a Government in which Labour participates (even as by far the largest constituent,) then what happens if Labour is short of a majority after the next election, but can get over the finishing line with SNP and Lib Dem votes - especially if the latter are necessary. The confidence and supply partners could demand a more palatable alternative to Corbyn be installed as PM, and on what basis could Labour then be seen to refuse?
Even with the deal rejected we would have left in March had the Commons not voted to extend, as far as I can tell all these MPs voted to extend then. They're the reason we didn't leave in March.
Corbyn could have done a deal today for an election. We could have had a Deal-No Deal election. I can only imagine the internal Labour polling is terrifying on this....
Scone viper? No.
Heart of stone ...
I doubt it will work but if it did the p*ss boiling on here would be immense.
Surely from Johnson point of view, that is the way to go.
Leave without an election , 2 and half years, to sort things out.
From the Institute of Government :
"Any bills that have completed all their parliamentary stages at the point Parliament is prorogued, but have not yet been given Royal Assent (needed for a bill to become an Act of Parliament), receive Royal Assent as part of the prorogation ceremony. During the ceremony, the Clerk of the Crown announces each bill to receive Royal Assent. As each bill is announced, the Clerk of the Parliament then declares "Le Reyne le veult" (the Queen wishes it in Norman French), signifying Assent has been given."
One suspects that a compromise would eventually be reached, but it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that no majority could be assembled for Corbyn, and that Corbyn himself would decline to support an alternative to himself, because of the damage that would do to his own position. In that case, Boris Johnson would remain as caretaker until the clock ran down to zero.
PB at its absolute worst.
But admittedly a substantially larger part of the wider party.
(a) Extending the normal process for ending a parliamentary session by a mere 4 sitting days longer than is typical
(b) The Speaker repeatedly throwing the Commons parliamentary rulebook out of the window in order to enable what should be illigitimate parliamentary votes all aimed at blocking Brexit
(c) Blocking a general election that would allow the general public to have a say in the whole process
A. Clearly not (a). As for (b), the public should be as concerned with (b) as (c), but as with (a) the subtleties of parliamentary procedure do not register with the vast majority. By contrast, with (c) everyone understands the significance of blocking a general election that would deny the yearning of many or most to give their elected representatives a good kicking. So (c) it is, by a country mile.
I suspect Brexit will suddenly become less important than partisan politics.
Indeed. Absolutely pathetic by the usual suspects.
How can the LDs run on a rejoin mandate when they were too stubborn to stop no deal? It would be farcical.
None of them like Corbyn. But it becomes what do you prefer Corbyn constrained by an alliance or no deal, and the answer is Corbyn constrained.
It really should be obvious. For months tory leavers have been posting how perhaps one or two tories might vote against the PM but not many. I said 15-30 would if push came to shove. It will be the same with any step to stop no deal, it is their raison d'etre.
Downloading dirty videos of your fave again.
https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/3ee21ab2-8e9e-4ea5-aa0c-ee785b88212c
Of course, if, in retrospect, their Lordships are seen to have played a significant role in facilitating Brexit, then one would expect the replacement or abolition of the Upper House to suddenly become an urgent priority in subsequent Labour and Lib Dem election manifestos...
46% support a public vote on Brexit
41% oppose
Still it was interesting that a highly unpopular Tory
colonial administratorSecretary of State for Scotland should alight on the idea of shipping a lump of granite to Scotland from England as a way of shoring up his position.If you're a Leaver, but you generally liked Mrs May's deal, and you want to leave the EU in an orderly fashion, who do you vote for?
I've not been to Boston for nearly a month, but I would tactfully suggest they don't go near the place.
London is probably different, so it isn't helping the North/South divide.
FTPA takes priority over previous precedence, the government can't just call an election they need to put a motion down which they have put down. If the Commons backs the motion there will be an election, if the Commons doesn't then that is the will of the Commons.
The English invaders managed to burn the national archives, but they went home with a blatant fake.
Just goes to show: if you lie long enough, hard enough, lies become the new truth.
Oh...
Now, will people still do so if they don't believe he is sincere in saying that? In that case, it doesn't matter if they want to leave in orderly fashion, they have to decide if they prefer no deal or Corbyn.
"If you're a Leaver, but you generally liked Mrs May's deal, and you want to leave the EU in an orderly fashion, who do you vote for?"
No one. They're all scum. They lied, and even worse, they're still lying and hardly bothering to pretend any more. The unvarnished truth is they believe they are above the hoi polio and don't need to bother with the opinion of underlings.
The LDs are at least honest hypocrites,
Beyond that, no party is offering what you want on Brexit, so deciding on other issues or you could try to game a hung parliament and postpone the decision until someone does come back and offer an orderly Brexit.
Let me be clear, I will probably be voting Lib Dem because we'll be better off in the EU. But I can't help but cheer for Boris
the baddiesright now. Does that make me a terrible person