This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
At some point you are going to have to choose one or the other. (Not that that would make you a traitor)
I wont get a choice. One will be taken away from me.
It is a shame that the EU does not give us the right to retain it. I would be happy to pay a few hundred quid a year to keep my " I am not a bigot" passport. (apologies to Leave voters who are not bigots - there are some of you out there)
Can’t believe you’re not obsessing over these tweets. Maybe it is the spartan sun sending me mad, but look at this.
‘Jessica Elgot (@jessicaelgot) Tweeted: Meeting including Margot James, Greg Clark, David Gauke, Caroline Nokes, Alistair Burt and Anne Milton.Some attempted genuine engagement with PM on negotiating deal but PM and Gove said they believe any deal is dead if bill passes & said it would only lead to referendum or revoke’
There it is. A clear admission - and truthful, I think - that we now stand on the precipice of referendum or revoke, if the rebel bill passes.
The Remainers won’t give up now. Their ultimate prize is within grasp. Brexit is dying.
And you think Leavers will just give up? Why should they when they've had their vote ignored and ultimately cancelled.
The first day after Brexit is revoked or cancelled Brexiteers will be campaigning for another referendum and to leave. I know I certainly will...
I saw Layla Moran on Sky on Sunday and was amazed at the assumption that stopping Brexit will be the end of the matter. It may be the end of the matter in the Remainer bubble of London and Westminster but it most certainly won't be in the country as a whole.
The requirement for leaving the EU is not 51%im a referendum. Its the 30-or-so per cent you need to form a majority government after a general election.
If remainers keep us in now its only a matter of time before a Brexit party or even Conservative party campaigns in a GE on a platform of taking us out, unilaterally, and wins a majority.
Certainly possible. It’s also possible most Britons will wearily sigh, express regret, and then get on with their lives, happy to forget about politics again.
My big fear is that Britain will develop a dolchstosslegende, like Germany after Versailles. That didn’t end well.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
Last Night of the Proms could be a punch up this year.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
At some point you are going to have to choose one or the other. (Not that that would make you a traitor)
Or have someone else choose for us, of course, assuming Brexit goes ahead.
Boris can simply put forward a law stating the FPTA will not apply in this instance and an election can be called for October 14th with just a simple majority and he likely will
But wouldn't that directly conflict with the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, which didn't make any provision for a future law doing what you describe? At the very least, surely the courts would get involved to decide whether the FTPA or this new law should take precedence.
The previous parliament cannot bind this one, he is free to amend it is if he has the votes
Yeah, he's free to amend (or repeal) the FTPA, but that's not what's being talked about, is it?
People are saying he'd just put forward a bill saying "notwithstanding the FTPA, an election will be held on 14/10/19", but I don't see how that would work. In that case, you'd still have the FTPA on the statute book stating that any election would be invalid without a two-thirds majority.
The FTPA does not say that. It gives two mechanisms for calling an early general election, one of which requires a motion to get a two thirds majority. It does not say any there are no other mechanisms, nor does it say that there are any circumstances in which an election is invalid. It cannot prevent a later Act overriding it. A one clause Act setting an election date would work in my view and would only need a simple majority.
It would also need to get through the Lords, and in a great hurry. Why do people keep forgetting that bit?
I keep asking the same question without a satisfactory answer.
Dominic Cummings is one of those guys who's so convinced of his own intelligence, he can't imagine that anyone else would see through his clever wheezes.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
Oh, you don't need to go back as far as 1588. As recently as last year traitorous MPs were trying to conduct parallel negotiations with the enemy:
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
If Brexit is cancelled then it would be a brave man who flew an EU flag in large parts of the UK, for the next decade at least. You’ll be beaten up.
Can’t believe you’re not obsessing over these tweets. Maybe it is the spartan sun sending me mad, but look at this.
‘Jessica Elgot (@jessicaelgot) Tweeted: Meeting including Margot James, Greg Clark, David Gauke, Caroline Nokes, Alistair Burt and Anne Milton.Some attempted genuine engagement with PM on negotiating deal but PM and Gove said they believe any deal is dead if bill passes & said it would only lead to referendum or revoke’
There it is. A clear admission - and truthful, I think - that we now stand on the precipice of referendum or revoke, if the rebel bill passes.
The Remainers won’t give up now. Their ultimate prize is within grasp. Brexit is dying.
Was it ever truly alive? Or just an illusory nirvana?
How are the government getting tripped up in court like this? And they think they can oversee Brexit.
Are they? It has to be shown prorogation was done to stop debate over Brexit. The fact it was discussed a month ago is irrelevant, are PMS supposed to wake up and decide on a whim?
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
If Brexit is cancelled then it would be a brave man who flew an EU flag in large parts of the UK, for the next decade at least. You’ll be beaten up.
How can you not see this?
Shows how out of touch you are. This is in no way the case.
I'll be relieved , if surprised, if No Deal is stopped. The problem however is what next? I do not believe there is a majority for anything constructive in Parliament. I also do not believe the country would tolerate revoke. Where is the party or person with the strategy for resolving this awful mess?
Those on the Remain side will, I suspect, regret their delight at where this going at the minute. A shrewd operator will be able to make being seen to ignore the Brexit vote as being about ignoring far more than that. And whatever else happens it looks like a recession soon and assorted other unpleasantness.
There’s a lot of space for a populist agenda to win an election out of that, whenever it comes; and it’ll be easier if the populist cause comes from someone outside of of Gvt. Especially if they are seen to have been pushed out by the establishment.
Sensible remainers will, I think, come to regret not working with sensible leavers to agree a compromise and deliver something.
And where does prorogation fit in all this. Why burn all that political capital, provoke counter mobilisation, involve the monarchy, look undemocratic if just one week later you are then disolving rather than prorouging ? I just don't see a coherent narrative.
I know the story everyone's enjoying is that there's this one ruthless advisor dude who's in charge of everything but it feels more like there are a bunch of warring advisors with different strategies and Boris is picking and choosing based on who he spoke to last. All the things they're doing make sense as part of one strategy or another, but put them together and they're all over the map.
I thought the meta-strategy was that the prorogation was declared in order to provoke the rebels so that they could be deselected for the general election.
A general election without deselecting the rebels first would have much less value.
That was a bluff. The last thing Boris needs is deselected MPs splitting the Tory vote in order to claim their payoff.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
Those on the Remain side will, I suspect, regret their delight at where this going at the minute. A shrewd operator will be able to make being seen to ignore the Brexit vote as being about ignoring far more than that. And whatever else happens it looks like a recession soon and assorted other unpleasantness.
There’s a lot of space for a populist agenda to win an election out of that, whenever it comes; and it’ll be easier if the populist cause comes from someone outside of of Gvt. Especially if they are seen to have been pushed out by the establishment.
Sensible remainers will, I think, come to regret not working with sensible leavers to agree a compromise and deliver something.
They did. Unfortunately the ERG, the current PM, and the hard-left extremists running the Labour Party kiboshed things.
See long grass, boot as hard as possible....its not happening.
Why are those sorts of headlines always phrased in such a way that makes the Gov't sound disappointed with the outcome and also that 7 years will be the maximum length of delay when actually a delay might well be politically convenient and it'll be the minimum length I expect ?
For those that have been following me on this subject I've been saying on here for a while that the opening date was a fantasy.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
If Brexit is cancelled then it would be a brave man who flew an EU flag in large parts of the UK, for the next decade at least. You’ll be beaten up.
How can you not see this?
Shows how out of touch you are. This is in no way the case.
No. I’m right. The fact you can’t see it speaks volumes. You do not understand human psychology. If Brexit is scrubbed, everything bad, from now on, will be blamed on the posho Remainers who overturned democracy. It’s a toxic combination. Especially in poor communities.
Can’t believe you’re not obsessing over these tweets. Maybe it is the spartan sun sending me mad, but look at this.
‘Jessica Elgot (@jessicaelgot) Tweeted: Meeting including Margot James, Greg Clark, David Gauke, Caroline Nokes, Alistair Burt and Anne Milton.Some attempted genuine engagement with PM on negotiating deal but PM and Gove said they believe any deal is dead if bill passes & said it would only lead to referendum or revoke’
There it is. A clear admission - and truthful, I think - that we now stand on the precipice of referendum or revoke, if the rebel bill passes.
The Remainers won’t give up now. Their ultimate prize is within grasp. Brexit is dying.
And you think Leavers will just give up? Why should they when they've had their vote ignored and ultimately cancelled.
The first day after Brexit is revoked or cancelled Brexiteers will be campaigning for another referendum and to leave. I know I certainly will...
I saw Layla Moran on Sky on Sunday and was amazed at the assumption that stopping Brexit will be the end of the matter. It may be the end of the matter in the Remainer bubble of London and Westminster but it most certainly won't be in the country as a whole.
The requirement for leaving the EU is not 51%im a referendum. Its the 30-or-so per cent you need to form a majority government after a general election.
If remainers keep us in now its only a matter of time before a Brexit party or even Conservative party campaigns in a GE on a platform of taking us out, unilaterally, and wins a majority.
What will its policy be towards the union?
Same as now - wave your hands in the air and waffle vague platitudes....
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
If Brexit is cancelled then it would be a brave man who flew an EU flag in large parts of the UK, for the next decade at least. You’ll be beaten up.
How can you not see this?
Shows how out of touch you are. This is in no way the case.
I suspect most people would just be overjoyed that this shambles is over.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
If Brexit is cancelled then it would be a brave man who flew an EU flag in large parts of the UK, for the next decade at least. You’ll be beaten up.
How can you not see this?
Shows how out of touch you are. This is in no way the case.
No. I’m right. The fact you can’t see it speaks volumes. You do not understand human psychology. If Brexit is scrubbed, everything bad, from now on, will be blamed on the posho Remainers who overturned democracy. It’s a toxic combination. Especially in poor communities.
I genuinely fear for our country.
There no good way out. The question is what is the best option available of the choices we have
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
If Brexit is cancelled then it would be a brave man who flew an EU flag in large parts of the UK, for the next decade at least. You’ll be beaten up.
How can you not see this?
Shows how out of touch you are. This is in no way the case.
No. I’m right. The fact you can’t see it speaks volumes. You do not understand human psychology. If Brexit is scrubbed, everything bad, from now on, will be blamed on the posho Remainers who overturned democracy. It’s a toxic combination. Especially in poor communities.
I genuinely fear for our country.
I live in a Northern Leave constituency. You live in Camden. What do you know?
Can’t believe you’re not obsessing over these tweets. Maybe it is the spartan sun sending me mad, but look at this.
‘Jessica Elgot (@jessicaelgot) Tweeted: Meeting including Margot James, Greg Clark, David Gauke, Caroline Nokes, Alistair Burt and Anne Milton.Some attempted genuine engagement with PM on negotiating deal but PM and Gove said they believe any deal is dead if bill passes & said it would only lead to referendum or revoke’
There it is. A clear admission - and truthful, I think - that we now stand on the precipice of referendum or revoke, if the rebel bill passes.
The Remainers won’t give up now. Their ultimate prize is within grasp. Brexit is dying.
And you think Leavers will just give up? Why should they when they've had their vote ignored and ultimately cancelled.
The first day after Brexit is revoked or cancelled Brexiteers will be campaigning for another referendum and to leave. I know I certainly will...
I saw Layla Moran on Sky on Sunday and was amazed at the assumption that stopping Brexit will be the end of the matter. It may be the end of the matter in the Remainer bubble of London and Westminster but it most certainly won't be in the country as a whole.
The requirement for leaving the EU is not 51%im a referendum. Its the 30-or-so per cent you need to form a majority government after a general election.
If remainers keep us in now its only a matter of time before a Brexit party or even Conservative party campaigns in a GE on a platform of taking us out, unilaterally, and wins a majority.
I keep saying this. There is no happy result for the EU, keeping us in their pet Project by conniving with the the minortity who voted to Remain. It is only a very temporary measure.
It will be last gasp of the current Establishment if they "succeed".
And where does prorogation fit in all this. Why burn all that political capital, provoke counter mobilisation, involve the monarchy, look undemocratic if just one week later you are then disolving rather than prorouging ? I just don't see a coherent narrative.
I know the story everyone's enjoying is that there's this one ruthless advisor dude who's in charge of everything but it feels more like there are a bunch of warring advisors with different strategies and Boris is picking and choosing based on who he spoke to last. All the things they're doing make sense as part of one strategy or another, but put them together and they're all over the map.
I thought the meta-strategy was that the prorogation was declared in order to provoke the rebels so that they could be deselected for the general election.
A general election without deselecting the rebels first would have much less value.
That was a bluff. The last thing Boris needs is deselected MPs splitting the Tory vote in order to claim their payoff.
It wouldn't split the vote all that much if at all. Runnymede has an 18000 Tory majority, a monkey in a blue rosette could run against Hammond and it'd win comfortably.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
If Brexit is cancelled then it would be a brave man who flew an EU flag in large parts of the UK, for the next decade at least. You’ll be beaten up.
How can you not see this?
Shows how out of touch you are. This is in no way the case.
No. I’m right. The fact you can’t see it speaks volumes. You do not understand human psychology. If Brexit is scrubbed, everything bad, from now on, will be blamed on the posho Remainers who overturned democracy. It’s a toxic combination. Especially in poor communities.
I genuinely fear for our country.
Especially since the alternative scenario(s) is worse.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
If Brexit is cancelled then it would be a brave man who flew an EU flag in large parts of the UK, for the next decade at least. You’ll be beaten up.
How can you not see this?
Shows how out of touch you are. This is in no way the case.
No. I’m right. The fact you can’t see it speaks volumes. You do not understand human psychology. If Brexit is scrubbed, everything bad, from now on, will be blamed on the posho Remainers who overturned democracy. It’s a toxic combination. Especially in poor communities.
I genuinely fear for our country.
Quite. We are now at the stage that whenever wins through, Act 3 of this play is going to be horrendous.
Those on the Remain side will, I suspect, regret their delight at where this going at the minute. A shrewd operator will be able to make being seen to ignore the Brexit vote as being about ignoring far more than that. And whatever else happens it looks like a recession soon and assorted other unpleasantness.
There’s a lot of space for a populist agenda to win an election out of that, whenever it comes; and it’ll be easier if the populist cause comes from someone outside of of Gvt. Especially if they are seen to have been pushed out by the establishment.
Sensible remainers will, I think, come to regret not working with sensible leavers to agree a compromise and deliver something.
I think there has been a lot more readiness to compromise on the Remain side than the Leave side. The right outcome given the close result was a Norway style deal. Instead we got offered a limited FTA or no deal at all.
Even now I would personally prefer a Norway style deal to a second referendum or revocation, because I do think that however lamentable the referendum campaign was, the vote to leave the EU needs to be honoured. Leavers may have burned too many bridges for that kind of compromise to happen now, unfortunately.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
If Brexit is cancelled then it would be a brave man who flew an EU flag in large parts of the UK, for the next decade at least. You’ll be beaten up.
How can you not see this?
Shows how out of touch you are. This is in no way the case.
No. I’m right. The fact you can’t see it speaks volumes. You do not understand human psychology. If Brexit is scrubbed, everything bad, from now on, will be blamed on the posho Remainers who overturned democracy. It’s a toxic combination. Especially in poor communities.
I genuinely fear for our country.
There no good way out. The question is what is the best option available of the choices we have
True. I think the best way out is an election. And then, if the Remainers have the numbers, another referendum: at least then some form of democracy will have been sustained. Revocation would be catastrophic
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
Oh, you don't need to go back as far as 1588. As recently as last year traitorous MPs were trying to conduct parallel negotiations with the enemy:
And where does prorogation fit in all this. Why burn all that political capital, provoke counter mobilisation, involve the monarchy, look undemocratic if just one week later you are then disolving rather than prorouging ? I just don't see a coherent narrative.
I know the story everyone's enjoying is that there's this one ruthless advisor dude who's in charge of everything but it feels more like there are a bunch of warring advisors with different strategies and Boris is picking and choosing based on who he spoke to last. All the things they're doing make sense as part of one strategy or another, but put them together and they're all over the map.
I thought the meta-strategy was that the prorogation was declared in order to provoke the rebels so that they could be deselected for the general election.
A general election without deselecting the rebels first would have much less value.
That was a bluff. The last thing Boris needs is deselected MPs splitting the Tory vote in order to claim their payoff.
It wouldn't split the vote all that much if at all. Runnymede has an 18000 Tory majority, a monkey in a blue rosette could run against Hammond and it'd win comfortably.
The violence throb-on some of you have is unsettling. There will be no violent insurrection. We know how the British public responds to violence, be it on the Left or the Right.
Those on the Remain side will, I suspect, regret their delight at where this going at the minute. A shrewd operator will be able to make being seen to ignore the Brexit vote as being about ignoring far more than that. And whatever else happens it looks like a recession soon and assorted other unpleasantness.
There’s a lot of space for a populist agenda to win an election out of that, whenever it comes; and it’ll be easier if the populist cause comes from someone outside of of Gvt. Especially if they are seen to have been pushed out by the establishment.
Sensible remainers will, I think, come to regret not working with sensible leavers to agree a compromise and deliver something.
I think there has been a lot more readiness to compromise on the Remain side than the Leave side. The right outcome given the close result was a Norway style deal. Instead we got offered a limited FTA or no deal at all.
Even now I would personally prefer a Norway style deal to a second referendum or revocation, because I do think that however lamentable the referendum campaign was, the vote to leave the EU needs to be honoured. Leavers may have burned too many bridges for that kind of compromise to happen now, unfortunately.
The issue was Theresa May (who never understood the vote) deciding it was all about immigration. I don’t think the history books will be kind. I reckon a Johnson/Gove/Cummings ministry in 2016 would have gone EFTA (and maybe EEA) and got it through.
And where does prorogation fit in all this. Why burn all that political capital, provoke counter mobilisation, involve the monarchy, look undemocratic if just one week later you are then disolving rather than prorouging ? I just don't see a coherent narrative.
I know the story everyone's enjoying is that there's this one ruthless advisor dude who's in charge of everything but it feels more like there are a bunch of warring advisors with different strategies and Boris is picking and choosing based on who he spoke to last. All the things they're doing make sense as part of one strategy or another, but put them together and they're all over the map.
I thought the meta-strategy was that the prorogation was declared in order to provoke the rebels so that they could be deselected for the general election.
A general election without deselecting the rebels first would have much less value.
That was a bluff. The last thing Boris needs is deselected MPs splitting the Tory vote in order to claim their payoff.
It wouldn't split the vote all that much if at all. Runnymede has an 18000 Tory majority, a monkey in a blue rosette could run against Hammond and it'd win comfortably.
Runnymede no, Putney yes?
Greening isn't standing so no split vote. Theyll lose it anyway possibly
The violence throb-on some of you have is unsettling. There will be no violent insurrection. We know how the British public responds to violence, be it on the Left or the Right.
It's almost like some people are trying to make it a thing. Using the spectre of future violence as an input into the political process. In some circumstances, that would be referred to as terrorism. Not that I'm going that far, but I will call it stupid and irresponsible.
And where does prorogation fit in all this. Why burn all that political capital, provoke counter mobilisation, involve the monarchy, look undemocratic if just one week later you are then disolving rather than prorouging ? I just don't see a coherent narrative.
I know the story everyone's enjoying is that there's this one ruthless advisor dude who's in charge of everything but it feels more like there are a bunch of warring advisors with different strategies and Boris is picking and choosing based on who he spoke to last. All the things they're doing make sense as part of one strategy or another, but put them together and they're all over the map.
I thought the meta-strategy was that the prorogation was declared in order to provoke the rebels so that they could be deselected for the general election.
A general election without deselecting the rebels first would have much less value.
That was a bluff. The last thing Boris needs is deselected MPs splitting the Tory vote in order to claim their payoff.
It wouldn't split the vote all that much if at all. Runnymede has an 18000 Tory majority, a monkey in a blue rosette could run against Hammond and it'd win comfortably.
Runnymede no, Putney yes?
I severely doubt Greening will be running as an independent given her letter. Hammond possibly would. Or are you suggesting Hammond will run in Putney ?
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
Oh, you don't need to go back as far as 1588. As recently as last year traitorous MPs were trying to conduct parallel negotiations with the enemy:
Those on the Remain side will, I suspect, regret their delight at where this going at the minute. A shrewd operator will be able to make being seen to ignore the Brexit vote as being about ignoring far more than that. And whatever else happens it looks like a recession soon and assorted other unpleasantness.
There’s a lot of space for a populist agenda to win an election out of that, whenever it comes; and it’ll be easier if the populist cause comes from someone outside of of Gvt. Especially if they are seen to have been pushed out by the establishment.
Sensible remainers will, I think, come to regret not working with sensible leavers to agree a compromise and deliver something.
I think there has been a lot more readiness to compromise on the Remain side than the Leave side. The right outcome given the close result was a Norway style deal. Instead we got offered a limited FTA or no deal at all.
Even now I would personally prefer a Norway style deal to a second referendum or revocation, because I do think that however lamentable the referendum campaign was, the vote to leave the EU needs to be honoured. Leavers may have burned too many bridges for that kind of compromise to happen now, unfortunately.
The issue was Theresa May (who never understood the vote) deciding it was all about immigration. I don’t think the history books will be kind. I reckon a Johnson/Gove/Cummings ministry in 2016 would have gone EFTA (and maybe EEA) and got it through.
If anyone had gone down that route from the beginning, it would have got through. But leavers were determined to sink their own project.
The Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, has said Labour is "absolutely ready to fight" a general election, if it is called.
Speaking after a meeting with other opposition parties this morning in Parliament to discuss attempts to put down legislation to prevent a no deal Brexit, he said:
"Let's see what happens after this legislation has gone through and if an election is called, I'm absolutely ready to fight it, our party is ready to fight it."
Those on the Remain side will, I suspect, regret their delight at where this going at the minute. A shrewd operator will be able to make being seen to ignore the Brexit vote as being about ignoring far more than that. And whatever else happens it looks like a recession soon and assorted other unpleasantness.
There’s a lot of space for a populist agenda to win an election out of that, whenever it comes; and it’ll be easier if the populist cause comes from someone outside of of Gvt. Especially if they are seen to have been pushed out by the establishment.
Sensible remainers will, I think, come to regret not working with sensible leavers to agree a compromise and deliver something.
I think there has been a lot more readiness to compromise on the Remain side than the Leave side. The right outcome given the close result was a Norway style deal. Instead we got offered a limited FTA or no deal at all.
Even now I would personally prefer a Norway style deal to a second referendum or revocation, because I do think that however lamentable the referendum campaign was, the vote to leave the EU needs to be honoured. Leavers may have burned too many bridges for that kind of compromise to happen now, unfortunately.
“Readiness to compromise”??? Give over. Throughout this whole sorry charade there’s been a solid 15-20% of the country which has been hardcore, crazy, ultra Remain, and their sole desire has been to overturn the vote. Even if they disguised this, at times, as a wish for a ‘people’s vote’ blah blah ugh
Given that in their midst they have some very influential people, from ex PMs down, and given that they have the whole EU on their side, it looks like they might actually win their war.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
If Brexit is cancelled then it would be a brave man who flew an EU flag in large parts of the UK, for the next decade at least. You’ll be beaten up.
How can you not see this?
Shows how out of touch you are. This is in no way the case.
No. I’m right. The fact you can’t see it speaks volumes. You do not understand human psychology. If Brexit is scrubbed, everything bad, from now on, will be blamed on the posho Remainers who overturned democracy. It’s a toxic combination. Especially in poor communities.
I genuinely fear for our country.
There no good way out. The question is what is the best option available of the choices we have
True. I think the best way out is an election. And then, if the Remainers have the numbers, another referendum: at least then some form of democracy will have been sustained. Revocation would be catastrophic
I agree with this. Revocation would be a very bad look and I would feel extremely uncomfortable if it were to come to pass. The question is would a GE win by a revoke party (looking at you, Jo) be legitimate reason to revoke given the numbers involved. My gut is probably but I would feel pretty uneasy about that as well.
The Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, has said Labour is "absolutely ready to fight" a general election, if it is called.
Speaking after a meeting with other opposition parties this morning in Parliament to discuss attempts to put down legislation to prevent a no deal Brexit, he said:
"Let's see what happens after this legislation has gone through and if an election is called, I'm absolutely ready to fight it, our party is ready to fight it."
@Byronic’s hysterical musings about Northerners beating up anyone with an EU flag have every hallmark of Republican nut jobs in the States who talk about ‘no go’ zones for White people and Police in London.
Two Labour MPs, Jess Phillips and Alex Sobel, have formally joined the high court challenge being launched by Gina Miller in London on Thursday against the prime minister’s decision to prorogue parliament.
Those on the Remain side will, I suspect, regret their delight at where this going at the minute. A shrewd operator will be able to make being seen to ignore the Brexit vote as being about ignoring far more than that. And whatever else happens it looks like a recession soon and assorted other unpleasantness.
There’s a lot of space for a populist agenda to win an election out of that, whenever it comes; and it’ll be easier if the populist cause comes from someone outside of of Gvt. Especially if they are seen to have been pushed out by the establishment.
Sensible remainers will, I think, come to regret not working with sensible leavers to agree a compromise and deliver something.
I think there has been a lot more readiness to compromise on the Remain side than the Leave side. The right outcome given the close result was a Norway style deal. Instead we got offered a limited FTA or no deal at all.
Even now I would personally prefer a Norway style deal to a second referendum or revocation, because I do think that however lamentable the referendum campaign was, the vote to leave the EU needs to be honoured. Leavers may have burned too many bridges for that kind of compromise to happen now, unfortunately.
The issue was Theresa May (who never understood the vote) deciding it was all about immigration. I don’t think the history books will be kind. I reckon a Johnson/Gove/Cummings ministry in 2016 would have gone EFTA (and maybe EEA) and got it through.
Those on the Remain side will, I suspect, regret their delight at where this going at the minute. A shrewd operator will be able to make being seen to ignore the Brexit vote as being about ignoring far more than that. And whatever else happens it looks like a recession soon and assorted other unpleasantness.
There’s a lot of space for a populist agenda to win an election out of that, whenever it comes; and it’ll be easier if the populist cause comes from someone outside of of Gvt. Especially if they are seen to have been pushed out by the establishment.
Sensible remainers will, I think, come to regret not working with sensible leavers to agree a compromise and deliver something.
I think there has been a lot more readiness to compromise on the Remain side than the Leave side. The right outcome given the close result was a Norway style deal. Instead we got offered a limited FTA or no deal at all.
Even now I would personally prefer a Norway style deal to a second referendum or revocation, because I do think that however lamentable the referendum campaign was, the vote to leave the EU needs to be honoured. Leavers may have burned too many bridges for that kind of compromise to happen now, unfortunately.
When you lose a referendum and get offered the withdrawal agreement you should absolutely take it. That looks like a huge mistake now for those hoping for a softer Brexit.
The violence throb-on some of you have is unsettling. There will be no violent insurrection. We know how the British public responds to violence, be it on the Left or the Right.
Whereas the Remainers who constantly used the threat of renewed violence in Ireland, in case of Brexit, are.... what?
@Byronic’s hysterical musings about Northerners beating up anyone with an EU flag have every hallmark of Republican nut jobs in the States who talk about ‘no go’ zones for White people and Police in London.
The violence throb-on some of you have is unsettling. There will be no violent insurrection. We know how the British public responds to violence, be it on the Left or the Right.
Whereas the Remainers who constantly used the threat of renewed violence in Ireland, in case of Brexit, are.... what?
Christ. Your hypocrisy is unending.
There is precedence for violence in NI. Where’s your evidence?
The violence throb-on some of you have is unsettling. There will be no violent insurrection. We know how the British public responds to violence, be it on the Left or the Right.
Anyone threatening violence or worse from either side is losing the plot
Lets have a GE and give the nation a voice in who they want to govern us and start with a fresh looking HOC, as there are too many entrenched and out of touch mps at present
I would expect Boris to lead the biggest party but a coalition of the rest could well see a referendum and as I have said before in 2020, which is the earliest a referendum could be held, the result due to the changed democracy and the youth vote should seee a good majority to remain
In my opinion that is now the most likely outcome and that should calm public anger, hopefully
Two Labour MPs, Jess Phillips and Alex Sobel, have formally joined the high court challenge being launched by Gina Miller in London on Thursday against the prime minister’s decision to prorogue parliament.
At this rate theyll need a football stadium for a court room
@Byronic’s hysterical musings about Northerners beating up anyone with an EU flag have every hallmark of Republican nut jobs in the States who talk about ‘no go’ zones for White people and Police in London.
Cf: remainers talking about new IRA violence for the last three bloody years, incessantly.
Two Labour MPs, Jess Phillips and Alex Sobel, have formally joined the high court challenge being launched by Gina Miller in London on Thursday against the prime minister’s decision to prorogue parliament.
At this rate theyll need a football stadium for a court room
The violence throb-on some of you have is unsettling. There will be no violent insurrection. We know how the British public responds to violence, be it on the Left or the Right.
Whereas the Remainers who constantly used the threat of renewed violence in Ireland, in case of Brexit, are.... what?
Christ. Your hypocrisy is unending.
There is precedence for violence in NI. Where’s your evidence?
The violence throb-on some of you have is unsettling. There will be no violent insurrection. We know how the British public responds to violence, be it on the Left or the Right.
Anyone threatening violence or worse from either side is losing the plot
Lets have a GE and give the nation a voice in who they want to govern us and start with a fresh looking HOC, as there are too many entrenched and out of touch mps at present
I would expect Boris to lead the biggest party but a coalition of the rest could well see a referendum and as I have said before in 2020, which is the earliest a referendum could be held, the result due to the changed democracy and the youth vote should seee a good majority to remain
In my opinion that is now the most likely outcome and that should calm public anger, hopefully
I think you misunderstand, any idea of a second referendum is surely dead, it would lead to complete chaos and violence IMO, and would only lead to a 3rd referendum. Most likely scenario is either no deal or some touched up version of the WA.
The violence throb-on some of you have is unsettling. There will be no violent insurrection. We know how the British public responds to violence, be it on the Left or the Right.
Whereas the Remainers who constantly used the threat of renewed violence in Ireland, in case of Brexit, are.... what?
Christ. Your hypocrisy is unending.
There is precedence for violence in NI. Where’s your evidence?
Sinn Fein and the Loyalist paramilitaries arent talking up violence, The British Army isnt talking up violence. So all the people who did the actual shooting are keeping their heads down.
The only people on the island of Ireland who are talking up violence are dissident republicans ( but theve been doing that for decades ) and Varadkar and Coveney.
Boris can simply put forward a law stating the FPTA will not apply in this instance and an election can be called for October 14th with just a simple majority and he likely will
But wouldn't that directly conflict with the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, which didn't make any provision for a future law doing what you describe? At the very least, surely the courts would get involved to decide whether the FTPA or this new law should take precedence.
The previous parliament cannot bind this one, he is free to amend it is if he has the votes
Yeah, he's free to amend (or repeal) the FTPA, but that's not what's being talked about, is it?
People are saying he'd just put forward a bill saying "notwithstanding the FTPA, an election will be held on 14/10/19", but I don't see how that would work. In that case, you'd still have the FTPA on the statute book stating that any election would be invalid without a two-thirds majority.
The FTPA does not say that. It gives two mechanisms for calling an early general election, one of which requires a motion to get a two thirds majority. It does not say any there are no other mechanisms, nor does it say that there are any circumstances in which an election is invalid. It cannot prevent a later Act overriding it. A one clause Act setting an election date would work in my view and would only need a simple majority.
It would also need to get through the Lords, and in a great hurry. Why do people keep forgetting that bit?
I keep asking the same question without a satisfactory answer.
Dominic Cummings is one of those guys who's so convinced of his own intelligence, he can't imagine that anyone else would see through his clever wheezes.
Cummings intelligence certainly isn't in doubt from my point of view.
But all his past successes have been predicated on having complete control. He doesn't have it here, and nor could he ever, and this is where his character flaws (not intelligence) will prove decisive.
The violence throb-on some of you have is unsettling. There will be no violent insurrection. We know how the British public responds to violence, be it on the Left or the Right.
Whereas the Remainers who constantly used the threat of renewed violence in Ireland, in case of Brexit, are.... what?
Christ. Your hypocrisy is unending.
There is precedence for violence in NI. Where’s your evidence?
Jo Cox.
1 bit of terrorism by a nut job, pre referendum means you think people won’t be safe with an EU flag in the North?
"No deal" legislation passes -> Johnson and Corbyn bring about GE -> Johnson resigns before he needs to sign the bit of paper for the extension whilst we're in the GE period -> Corbyn becomes PM and signs -> GE happens ?
We've taken "No deal" off the table here, Corbyn has become PM (Perhaps very temporarily) and we have the matter hopefully decided one way or the other.
Those on the Remain side will, I suspect, regret their delight at where this going at the minute. A shrewd operator will be able to make being seen to ignore the Brexit vote as being about ignoring far more than that. And whatever else happens it looks like a recession soon and assorted other unpleasantness.
There’s a lot of space for a populist agenda to win an election out of that, whenever it comes; and it’ll be easier if the populist cause comes from someone outside of of Gvt. Especially if they are seen to have been pushed out by the establishment.
Sensible remainers will, I think, come to regret not working with sensible leavers to agree a compromise and deliver something.
I think there has been a lot more readiness to compromise on the Remain side than the Leave side. The right outcome given the close result was a Norway style deal. Instead we got offered a limited FTA or no deal at all.
Even now I would personally prefer a Norway style deal to a second referendum or revocation, because I do think that however lamentable the referendum campaign was, the vote to leave the EU needs to be honoured. Leavers may have burned too many bridges for that kind of compromise to happen now, unfortunately.
“Readiness to compromise”??? Give over. Throughout this whole sorry charade there’s been a solid 15-20% of the country which has been hardcore, crazy, ultra Remain, and their sole desire has been to overturn the vote. Even if they disguised this, at times, as a wish for a ‘people’s vote’ blah blah ugh
Given that in their midst they have some very influential people, from ex PMs down, and given that they have the whole EU on their side, it looks like they might actually win their war.
I just hope they enjoy “the peace”.
Equally, say brexit happens: I loathe and despise Remainers who pretend to think that each and every leave voter was a hardcore racist, but say 15-20% of them were. It is going to become clear to them in a matter of months that the magical disappearance of East Europeans and muslims they were voting for hasn't happened, and the consequent resentment is going to be taken out on those same E Europeans and muslims. Race hatred crimes are going to multiply tenfold. And of course the same thing will occur, for much the same reasons, if brexit does not happen.
Those on the Remain side will, I suspect, regret their delight at where this going at the minute. A shrewd operator will be able to make being seen to ignore the Brexit vote as being about ignoring far more than that. And whatever else happens it looks like a recession soon and assorted other unpleasantness.
There’s a lot of space for a populist agenda to win an election out of that, whenever it comes; and it’ll be easier if the populist cause comes from someone outside of of Gvt. Especially if they are seen to have been pushed out by the establishment.
Sensible remainers will, I think, come to regret not working with sensible leavers to agree a compromise and deliver something.
I think there has been a lot more readiness to compromise on the Remain side than the Leave side. The right outcome given the close result was a Norway style deal. Instead we got offered a limited FTA or no deal at all.
Even now I would personally prefer a Norway style deal to a second referendum or revocation, because I do think that however lamentable the referendum campaign was, the vote to leave the EU needs to be honoured. Leavers may have burned too many bridges for that kind of compromise to happen now, unfortunately.
“Readiness to compromise”??? Give over. Throughout this whole sorry charade there’s been a solid 15-20% of the country which has been hardcore, crazy, ultra Remain, and their sole desire has been to overturn the vote. Even if they disguised this, at times, as a wish for a ‘people’s vote’ blah blah ugh
Given that in their midst they have some very influential people, from ex PMs down, and given that they have the whole EU on their side, it looks like they might actually win their war.
I just hope they enjoy “the peace”.
If the pro Brexit side had been smart they would have exposed and isolated this hard core by offering a genuine compromise that soft Remainers who wanted to honour the democratic vote could easily support. But they got greedy and bet the farm on a hard Brexit, forcing soft Remainers and your hardcore crazies onto the same side.
It's similar to the mistakes the British state made in N Ireland, eg Bloody Sunday, and goes against best practice in counter insurgency operations of the kind that Brexiteers faced in the wake of the referendum.
I don't really have any sympathy for pro Leave politicians, but I do feel a bit sorry for the average Leave voter who was promised something impossible and might end up with nothing at all.
The violence throb-on some of you have is unsettling. There will be no violent insurrection. We know how the British public responds to violence, be it on the Left or the Right.
Whereas the Remainers who constantly used the threat of renewed violence in Ireland, in case of Brexit, are.... what?
Christ. Your hypocrisy is unending.
There is precedence for violence in NI. Where’s your evidence?
Jo Cox.
1 bit of terrorism by a nut job, pre referendum means you think people won’t be safe with an EU flag in the North?
I suggest we end this debate on grounds of taste. I’ve made my case. You’ve made yours. Enough.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
If you want to pour fuel on the fire of opposition to the EU in the UK then go right ahead.
It's emotional symbols of nationhood and loyalty like that which go straight to the gut of what drives Eurosceptic feeling and reaction.
The violence throb-on some of you have is unsettling. There will be no violent insurrection. We know how the British public responds to violence, be it on the Left or the Right.
Whereas the Remainers who constantly used the threat of renewed violence in Ireland, in case of Brexit, are.... what?
Christ. Your hypocrisy is unending.
I hope s/he is very young. In that context you can put their silly posts down to naivety. If they are an adult then it’s all just a bit sad (the same applies to some of the ardent leave posters on here).
@Byronic’s hysterical musings about Northerners beating up anyone with an EU flag have every hallmark of Republican nut jobs in the States who talk about ‘no go’ zones for White people and Police in London.
Cf: remainers talking about new IRA violence for the last three bloody years, incessantly.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
If Brexit is cancelled then it would be a brave man who flew an EU flag in large parts of the UK, for the next decade at least. You’ll be beaten up.
How can you not see this?
Shows how out of touch you are. This is in no way the case.
No. I’m right. The fact you can’t see it speaks volumes. You do not understand human psychology. If Brexit is scrubbed, everything bad, from now on, will be blamed on the posho Remainers who overturned democracy. It’s a toxic combination. Especially in poor communities.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
Given people get upset about this, perhaps it is time that we should be able to get a standard passport for £x or customised passports emphasising their particular identities such as European, UK, British, English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, Cornish etc and in whatever particular colour they choose for £x + y. The scannable page is the key one, not the cover. Nice little earner for the home office.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
If you want to pour fuel on the fire of opposition to the EU in the UK then go right ahead.
It's emotional symbols of nationhood and loyalty like that which go straight to the gut of what drives Eurosceptic feeling and reaction.
You should have learnt this by now.
Most Brexit voters identify as English above British. Let’s stay in the bigger union, because the smaller one has had its day. 🏴🇪🇺
The violence throb-on some of you have is unsettling. There will be no violent insurrection. We know how the British public responds to violence, be it on the Left or the Right.
Anyone threatening violence or worse from either side is losing the plot
Lets have a GE and give the nation a voice in who they want to govern us and start with a fresh looking HOC, as there are too many entrenched and out of touch mps at present
I would expect Boris to lead the biggest party but a coalition of the rest could well see a referendum and as I have said before in 2020, which is the earliest a referendum could be held, the result due to the changed democracy and the youth vote should seee a good majority to remain
In my opinion that is now the most likely outcome and that should calm public anger, hopefully
I think you misunderstand, any idea of a second referendum is surely dead, it would lead to complete chaos and violence IMO, and would only lead to a 3rd referendum. Most likely scenario is either no deal or some touched up version of the WA.
With respect I am talking of the new HOC and a referendum will be very much on the mind of the SNP, Lib Dems, Labour, and Plaid and if Boris does not achieve a majority and that, IMHO, is where we will end up
Each sides loose talk of violence is not constructive
"No deal" legislation passes -> Johnson and Corbyn bring about GE -> Johnson resigns before he needs to sign the bit of paper for the extension whilst we're in the GE period -> Corbyn becomes PM and signs -> GE happens ?
We've taken "No deal" off the table here, Corbyn has become PM (Perhaps very temporarily) and we have the matter hopefully decided one way or the other.
As there are no MPs in an election campaign, HMQ would have to ask another member of government to take over
The violence throb-on some of you have is unsettling. There will be no violent insurrection. We know how the British public responds to violence, be it on the Left or the Right.
Whereas the Remainers who constantly used the threat of renewed violence in Ireland, in case of Brexit, are.... what?
Christ. Your hypocrisy is unending.
I hope s/he is very young. In that context you can put their silly posts down to naivety. If they are an adult then it’s all just a bit sad (the same applies to some of the ardent leave posters on here).
What on earth are you on about?
I live in a Northern Leave constituency. I have many Leave voting friends. No-one would give two sh*ts if I carried an EU flag down the street.
There was a stop the coup protest in Newcastle City Centre on Saturday at the same time as 52,000 football fans were in the City Centre. No violence.
Those on the Remain side will, I suspect, regret their delight at where this going at the minute. A shrewd operator will be able to make being seen to ignore the Brexit vote as being about ignoring far more than that. And whatever else happens it looks like a recession soon and assorted other unpleasantness.
There’s a lot of space for a populist agenda to win an election out of that, whenever it comes; and it’ll be easier if the populist cause comes from someone outside of of Gvt. Especially if they are seen to have been pushed out by the establishment.
Sensible remainers will, I think, come to regret not working with sensible leavers to agree a compromise and deliver something.
I think there has been a lot more readiness to compromise on the Remain side than the Leave side. The right outcome given the close result was a Norway style deal. Instead we got offered a limited FTA or no deal at all.
Even now I would personally prefer a Norway style deal to a second referendum or revocation, because I do think that however lamentable the referendum campaign was, the vote to leave the EU needs to be honoured. Leavers may have burned too many bridges for that kind of compromise to happen now, unfortunately.
“Readiness to compromise”??? Give over. Throughout this whole sorry charade there’s been a solid 15-20% of the country which has been hardcore, crazy, ultra Remain, and their sole desire has been to overturn the vote. Even if they disguised this, at times, as a wish for a ‘people’s vote’ blah blah ugh
Given that in their midst they have some very influential people, from ex PMs down, and given that they have the whole EU on their side, it looks like they might actually win their war.
I just hope they enjoy “the peace”.
Equally, say brexit happens: I loathe and despise Remainers who pretend to think that each and every leave voter was a hardcore racist, but say 15-20% of them were. It is going to become clear to them in a matter of months that the magical disappearance of East Europeans and muslims they were voting for hasn't happened, and the consequent resentment is going to be taken out on those same E Europeans and muslims. Race hatred crimes are going to multiply tenfold. And of course the same thing will occur, for much the same reasons, if brexit does not happen.
Quite deplorable comments.
And quite ludicrous too. You evidently have a low opinion of the intelligence of Brexit voters, but they really would have to be remarkably stupid to think that Pakistan and Bangladesh - for example - were in the EU, and that leaving the EU would make British Muslims "magically disappear."
Byronic, HYUFD and one or two others are full of hyperbole today.
Yep there's some anger around on both sides. But it's not just about Brexit. And, frankly, the most dominant feeling towards it tedium. People are fed up with it and wish it to go away. If there is a General Election then despite the Johnson-Cummings best efforts, Brexit won't be the only story or even the most important one. In poll after poll up until Cameron's unnecessary diversion, 'Europe' never featured in the top ten of issues that interested or vexed people.
This is the first reason why Corbyn's Labour will do much better than some on here think.
The second reason is a fundamental principle. Perhaps THE fundamental principle. The tories are ripping themselves apart before our eyes, right into Downing St itself. Far from unifying the party around a single cause as HYUFD would have you believe in his evangelical zeal, the fanaticism is causing a schism of epic blue-on-blue proportions, pumped by the 'threat' from Farage's Brexit Party. You think it's bad now? It will be one hundred times worse during an election campaign.
Quite simply, parties that aren't united don't win elections. And the tories are self-immolating before our eyes.
It used to be the case that if a government decided to resign you automatically got a general election. I'm still not sure what happens now if the government decides to call time on itself.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
If you want to pour fuel on the fire of opposition to the EU in the UK then go right ahead.
It's emotional symbols of nationhood and loyalty like that which go straight to the gut of what drives Eurosceptic feeling and reaction.
You should have learnt this by now.
Most Brexit voters identify as English above British. Let’s stay in the bigger union, because the smaller one has had its day. 🏴🇪🇺
As I said prethread, the irony here is that if Brexit is cancelled, and we stay in the EU, Scotland will never vote INDY. Because this time around the Scots would know, very painfully, that a Yes vote would mean instant ejection from the EU, with added national bankruptcy. It would be Brexit times 20. Not an easy sell.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
If you want to pour fuel on the fire of opposition to the EU in the UK then go right ahead.
It's emotional symbols of nationhood and loyalty like that which go straight to the gut of what drives Eurosceptic feeling and reaction.
You should have learnt this by now.
I can certainly imagine one of the first targets for ire will be cars getting trashed with the EU blue background and stars on their car number plates.
(And before anybody gets outraged that I am inciting violence, of course I'm not. Just recognising that some easily-roused idiots have an easy target all around them.
If I really wanted to map out violence - for a plot-line in a novel, for example - I reckon the most memorable terrorist outrage yet on UK soil could be done with two guys on pizza delivery bikes and £100....not that I am ever going to share it, for obvious reasons. It's THAT easy....)
Am I understanding correctly? "Tory sources" are now accusing cabinet office officials of lying to the media?
Tell senior, experienced highly flying civil servants that their views are idiotic, they are incompetent because they don't believe enough, and they'd better produce new views pronto. Surprisingly enough, this buys no loyalty.
And quite ludicrous too. You evidently have a low opinion of the intelligence of Brexit voters, but they really would have to be remarkably stupid to think that Pakistan and Bangladesh - for example - were in the EU, and that leaving the EU would make British Muslims "magically disappear."
Did you miss the bit where I said 15-20% of them?
Find a good solicitor and instruct her to bring proceedings for mis-selling against your ISP on the grounds that it should be obvious to any reasonable person that you are far too stupid to benefit from access to the internet.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
Oh, you don't need to go back as far as 1588. As recently as last year traitorous MPs were trying to conduct parallel negotiations with the enemy:
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
If Brexit is cancelled then it would be a brave man who flew an EU flag in large parts of the UK, for the next decade at least. You’ll be beaten up.
How can you not see this?
Calm down you are starting to sound quite unhinged.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
If you want to pour fuel on the fire of opposition to the EU in the UK then go right ahead.
It's emotional symbols of nationhood and loyalty like that which go straight to the gut of what drives Eurosceptic feeling and reaction.
You should have learnt this by now.
I can certainly imagine one of the first targets for ire will be cars getting trashed with the EU blue background and stars on their car number plates.
(And before anybody gets outraged that I am inciting violence, of course I'm not. Just recognising that some easily-roused idiots have an easy target all around them.
If I really wanted to map out violence - for a plot-line in a novel, for example - I reckon the most memorable terrorist outrage yet on UK soil could be done with two guys on pizza delivery bikes and £100....not that I am ever going to share it, for obvious reasons. It's THAT easy....)
Maybe Dominic Cummings is Nick Timothy in disguise? An over hyped nonentity who thinks he is much cleverer than he actually is, and is much less clever than his gullible boss thinks he is. When are we going to get politicians and their advisors who have actually done proper jobs, and are therefore tested in the real world?
For a humungous fee, I will be available after the middle of October.
(Of course, I won’t be able to write any more PB headers but to those on here who think I write drivel - and have been saying so vociferously in recent days - that is probably a plus. So win-win all round. And you can then all debate The No Chocolate in Coffee Bill to your heart’s content...... ).
FWIW, you're one of the main reasons I bother to visit this site. I don't always like what you say, but I always find it serious and sensible. Then again, I also like pineapple on pizza, so..
Thank you. That is very kind.
I think my career as a political advisor will be still-born so, unless I run out of things to say, I will be around for a while yet.
PS I don’t much like pizza, whatever it has on top.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
If you want to pour fuel on the fire of opposition to the EU in the UK then go right ahead.
It's emotional symbols of nationhood and loyalty like that which go straight to the gut of what drives Eurosceptic feeling and reaction.
You should have learnt this by now.
I can certainly imagine one of the first targets for ire will be cars getting trashed with the EU blue background and stars on their car number plates.
(And before anybody gets outraged that I am inciting violence, of course I'm not. Just recognising that some easily-roused idiots have an easy target all around them.
If I really wanted to map out violence - for a plot-line in a novel, for example - I reckon the most memorable terrorist outrage yet on UK soil could be done with two guys on pizza delivery bikes and £100....not that I am ever going to share it, for obvious reasons. It's THAT easy....)
This is ludicrous. Millions of leave voters have EU number plates. They are not going to pay money to change them regardless of whether we are in the EU or not.
The violence throb-on some of you have is unsettling. There will be no violent insurrection. We know how the British public responds to violence, be it on the Left or the Right.
Whereas the Remainers who constantly used the threat of renewed violence in Ireland, in case of Brexit, are.... what?
Christ. Your hypocrisy is unending.
I hope s/he is very young. In that context you can put their silly posts down to naivety. If they are an adult then it’s all just a bit sad (the same applies to some of the ardent leave posters on here).
What on earth are you on about?
I live in a Northern Leave constituency. I have many Leave voting friends. No-one would give two sh*ts if I carried an EU flag down the street.
There was a stop the coup protest in Newcastle City Centre on Saturday at the same time as 52,000 football fans were in the City Centre. No violence.
Wasn't Newcastle quite close to the median vote ? Sunderland strikes me as much brexitier than Newcastle.
It used to be the case that if a government decided to resign you automatically got a general election. I'm still not sure what happens now if the government decides to call time on itself.
It’s the weirdest bit of the FTPA. If Boris resigns but declines to advise on any successor, what happens? All the conventions that came in pre-FTPA were designed to keep the sovereign out of it.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
The time for flying those EU flags you had me buy, may be approaching.
If you want to pour fuel on the fire of opposition to the EU in the UK then go right ahead.
It's emotional symbols of nationhood and loyalty like that which go straight to the gut of what drives Eurosceptic feeling and reaction.
You should have learnt this by now.
That depends on the demographics of where you live. There are certainly places where flying a Union Jack would cause more raised eyebrows than flying an EU flag. (I live in one such.)
On the face of it, Boris is in trouble - he doesn't control the Commons and he's in a far weaker position in Lords.
But surely Corbyn has to be very careful - optics of denying a GE could be very bad indeed. Boris will just say "Let the people decide etc".
If legislation blocking No Deal is put on statute book pre GE and Boris then wins a majority, Lords could block immediate repeal of that legislation. But would they? It would look horrendous - Boris would just have won a GE, he would have as clear a mandate as possible - would be very dangerous for Lords to try to over-ride that.
So whilst Boris looks cornered with no way out, I just wonder.
Given people get upset about this, perhaps it is time that we should be able to get a standard passport for £x or customised passports emphasising their particular identities such as European, UK, British, English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, Cornish etc and in whatever particular colour they choose for £x + y. The scannable page is the key one, not the cover. Nice little earner for the home office.
That's a great idea. You could also have football teams or anime characters or whatever.
Use the money to make the passport free for people who genuinely can't afford the current fees. You can make sure nobody who can afford a passport gets the "basic" version by putting a picture of Prince Andrew on it.
Comments
How can you not see this?
There’s a lot of space for a populist agenda to win an election out of that, whenever it comes; and it’ll be easier if the populist cause comes from someone outside of of Gvt. Especially if they are seen to have been pushed out by the establishment.
Sensible remainers will, I think, come to regret not working with sensible leavers to agree a compromise and deliver something.
Which category are you putting me in?
I genuinely fear for our country.
It will be last gasp of the current Establishment if they "succeed".
Even now I would personally prefer a Norway style deal to a second referendum or revocation, because I do think that however lamentable the referendum campaign was, the vote to leave the EU needs to be honoured. Leavers may have burned too many bridges for that kind of compromise to happen now, unfortunately.
And I do hope his pike is collapsible.
In some circumstances, that would be referred to as terrorism. Not that I'm going that far, but I will call it stupid and irresponsible.
Speaking after a meeting with other opposition parties this morning in Parliament to discuss attempts to put down legislation to prevent a no deal Brexit, he said:
"Let's see what happens after this legislation has gone through and if an election is called, I'm absolutely ready to fight it, our party is ready to fight it."
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-49557734
Given that in their midst they have some very influential people, from ex PMs down, and given that they have the whole EU on their side, it looks like they might actually win their war.
I just hope they enjoy “the peace”.
I think it has to be a 2nd referendum. Or a deal.
#hoorayforjegzysonebraincell
https://twitter.com/vote_leave/status/741363396550000640?s=21
Wouldn't surprise me to see the Tories polling 40+ very soon. The opposition are playing with fire.
Christ. Your hypocrisy is unending.
Lets have a GE and give the nation a voice in who they want to govern us and start with a fresh looking HOC, as there are too many entrenched and out of touch mps at present
I would expect Boris to lead the biggest party but a coalition of the rest could well see a referendum and as I have said before in 2020, which is the earliest a referendum could be held, the result due to the changed democracy and the youth vote should seee a good majority to remain
In my opinion that is now the most likely outcome and that should calm public anger, hopefully
The only people on the island of Ireland who are talking up violence are dissident republicans ( but theve been doing that for decades ) and Varadkar and Coveney.
But all his past successes have been predicated on having complete control. He doesn't have it here, and nor could he ever, and this is where his character flaws (not intelligence) will prove decisive.
Crucial difference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STIvNjWobzA
"No deal" legislation passes -> Johnson and Corbyn bring about GE -> Johnson resigns before he needs to sign the bit of paper for the extension whilst we're in the GE period -> Corbyn becomes PM and signs -> GE happens ?
We've taken "No deal" off the table here, Corbyn has become PM (Perhaps very temporarily) and we have the matter hopefully decided one way or the other.
It's similar to the mistakes the British state made in N Ireland, eg Bloody Sunday, and goes against best practice in counter insurgency operations of the kind that Brexiteers faced in the wake of the referendum.
I don't really have any sympathy for pro Leave politicians, but I do feel a bit sorry for the average Leave voter who was promised something impossible and might end up with nothing at all.
It's emotional symbols of nationhood and loyalty like that which go straight to the gut of what drives Eurosceptic feeling and reaction.
You should have learnt this by now.
Darth Cummings has wargamed this...
Each sides loose talk of violence is not constructive
I live in a Northern Leave constituency. I have many Leave voting friends. No-one would give two sh*ts if I carried an EU flag down the street.
There was a stop the coup protest in Newcastle City Centre on Saturday at the same time as 52,000 football fans were in the City Centre. No violence.
And quite ludicrous too. You evidently have a low opinion of the intelligence of Brexit voters, but they really would have to be remarkably stupid to think that Pakistan and Bangladesh - for example - were in the EU, and that leaving the EU would make British Muslims "magically disappear."
Yep there's some anger around on both sides. But it's not just about Brexit. And, frankly, the most dominant feeling towards it tedium. People are fed up with it and wish it to go away. If there is a General Election then despite the Johnson-Cummings best efforts, Brexit won't be the only story or even the most important one. In poll after poll up until Cameron's unnecessary diversion, 'Europe' never featured in the top ten of issues that interested or vexed people.
This is the first reason why Corbyn's Labour will do much better than some on here think.
The second reason is a fundamental principle. Perhaps THE fundamental principle. The tories are ripping themselves apart before our eyes, right into Downing St itself. Far from unifying the party around a single cause as HYUFD would have you believe in his evangelical zeal, the fanaticism is causing a schism of epic blue-on-blue proportions, pumped by the 'threat' from Farage's Brexit Party. You think it's bad now? It will be one hundred times worse during an election campaign.
Quite simply, parties that aren't united don't win elections. And the tories are self-immolating before our eyes.
(And before anybody gets outraged that I am inciting violence, of course I'm not. Just recognising that some easily-roused idiots have an easy target all around them.
If I really wanted to map out violence - for a plot-line in a novel, for example - I reckon the most memorable terrorist outrage yet on UK soil could be done with two guys on pizza delivery bikes and £100....not that I am ever going to share it, for obvious reasons. It's THAT easy....)
Surprisingly enough, this buys no loyalty.
Find a good solicitor and instruct her to bring proceedings for mis-selling against your ISP on the grounds that it should be obvious to any reasonable person that you are far too stupid to benefit from access to the internet.
I think my career as a political advisor will be still-born so, unless I run out of things to say, I will be around for a while yet.
PS I don’t much like pizza, whatever it has on top.
But surely Corbyn has to be very careful - optics of denying a GE could be very bad indeed. Boris will just say "Let the people decide etc".
If legislation blocking No Deal is put on statute book pre GE and Boris then wins a majority, Lords could block immediate repeal of that legislation. But would they? It would look horrendous - Boris would just have won a GE, he would have as clear a mandate as possible - would be very dangerous for Lords to try to over-ride that.
So whilst Boris looks cornered with no way out, I just wonder.
Use the money to make the passport free for people who genuinely can't afford the current fees. You can make sure nobody who can afford a passport gets the "basic" version by putting a picture of Prince Andrew on it.