Boris can simply put forward a law stating the FPTA will not apply in this instance and an election can be called for October 14th with just a simple majority and he likely will
But wouldn't that directly conflict with the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, which didn't make any provision for a future law doing what you describe? At the very least, surely the courts would get involved to decide whether the FTPA or this new law should take precedence.
The previous parliament cannot bind this one, he is free to amend it is if he has the votes
Yeah, he's free to amend (or repeal) the FTPA, but that's not what's being talked about, is it?
People are saying he'd just put forward a bill saying "notwithstanding the FTPA, an election will be held on 14/10/19", but I don't see how that would work. In that case, you'd still have the FTPA on the statute book stating that any election would be invalid without a two-thirds majority.
The FTPA does not say that. It gives two mechanisms for calling an early general election, one of which requires a motion to get a two thirds majority. It does not say any there are no other mechanisms, nor does it say that there are any circumstances in which an election is invalid. It cannot prevent a later Act overriding it. A one clause Act setting an election date would work in my view and would only need a simple majority.
It would also need to get through the Lords, and in a great hurry. Why do people keep forgetting that bit?
I am still a layer of both a no deal exit and a 2019 GE (although the latter is looking the more shaky position and I have also been laying 2022 as insurance). The point about no deal never being able to be so bad as to deter the EU but so manageable as to not damage the UK was one I made during the Tory leadership campaign. Especially since the EU, and the principally affected countries of France, Holland and Ireland, have done more to prepare than we have.
I don't want to moan but do we need all this WW2 stuff?
Blair's speech yesterday was interesting - though as I mentioned before there was one enormous gaffe about train travelling times to Paris and Newcastle.
However there were a few things unanswered.
1) He said no deal would not be the end but just the beginning. Perhaps but what about revoke? Does he seriously believe that will settle things either even if there is a 'People's Vote'? What future inside the EU are they offering?
2) He touched on how Brexit reflected a wider cultural cleavage. This was welcome but again what is to be done about this? How can we avoid moving to the more identity-based tribal politics of Northern Ireland? Or did he think what was needed was for one side to 'win' over the other?
3) Elites versus the people. He rightly pointed out the dangers of the people versus parliament argument and how the referendum had contributed to this but he didn't seem to realise that the referendum result, in fact the mere holding of the referendum, was a symptom of political breakdown. Declining turnouts and perverse results through FPTP are not helping parliament's legitimacy. There is also the issue of corruption. A sense that politics is bought by vested interests, that MPs discreetly feather their own nests and are too close to powerful figures in the world of commerce and finance whom they are supposed to be regulating. Also a quite correct sense that this is all being facilitated by the increasingly open world we live in. Too many seem comforted by the idea that it's all about inequality, that some people feel (wrongly?) that they are losing out whilst the selected few do ostentatiously well. Actually many believe that the system itself is rotten.
That is a very interesting post. Worthy of a header, perhaps?
It is. I don’t agree with all of it - particularly the third point, which I think something of a caricature - but I’d enjoy debating it outside of the usual Brexit nonsense.
I forecast youll get 6 posts in and then the usual Brexit nonsense will kick off.
Betting on next prime minister -- if Oddschecker is to be believed, at least two major bookmakers have taken down their markets. I am too busy to check but it seems plausible.
@HYUFD do you think Boris will go into a GE campaign promising ‘No Deal’ at all costs? If not, prepare to be cannibalised by the Brexit Party.
He will promise as he has done to aim for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop as 52% of voters backed at the weekend with Survation at the weekend and if not agreed by October 31st then he will go to No Deal yes.
At the moment it is Corbyn Labour being cannabalised by the LDs not the Tories being cannabalised by the Brexit Party
Remind me which party had control of South Oxfordshire and the Vale of the White Horse before the Lib Dems took them in May. Was it:
a) Labour b) the Brexit Party c) Jean-Claude Juncker's Merry Men d) the Conservatives
In the European Parliament elections Labour lost more local authority areas to the LDs than the Tories did.
In London the LDs came first in most local authorities
Boris can simply put forward a law stating the FPTA will not apply in this instance and an election can be called for October 14th with just a simple majority and he likely will
But wouldn't that directly conflict with the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, which didn't make any provision for a future law doing what you describe? At the very least, surely the courts would get involved to decide whether the FTPA or this new law should take precedence.
The previous parliament cannot bind this one, he is free to amend it is if he has the votes
Yeah, he's free to amend (or repeal) the FTPA, but that's not what's being talked about, is it?
People are saying he'd just put forward a bill saying "notwithstanding the FTPA, an election will be held on 14/10/19", but I don't see how that would work. In that case, you'd still have the FTPA on the statute book stating that any election would be invalid without a two-thirds majority.
The FTPA does not say that. It gives two mechanisms for calling an early general election, one of which requires a motion to get a two thirds majority. It does not say any there are no other mechanisms, nor does it say that there are any circumstances in which an election is invalid. It cannot prevent a later Act overriding it. A one clause Act setting an election date would work in my view and would only need a simple majority.
I don’t think that interpretation stacks up. The point about an unwritten constitution is that when parts of it become written then it is no longer unwritten, and can’t become so again. We now need provisions spelling out when an election happens, and without the provisions of the FPTA being triggered the default remains the date for the next GE as set out in the Act.
@HYUFD do you think Boris will go into a GE campaign promising ‘No Deal’ at all costs? If not, prepare to be cannibalised by the Brexit Party.
He will promise as he has done to aim for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop as 52% of voters backed at the weekend with Survation at the weekend and if not agreed by October 31st then he will go to No Deal yes.
At the moment it is Corbyn Labour being cannabalised by the LDs not the Tories being cannabalised by the Brexit Party
Remind me which party had control of South Oxfordshire and the Vale of the White Horse before the Lib Dems took them in May. Was it:
a) Labour b) the Brexit Party c) Jean-Claude Juncker's Merry Men d) the Conservatives
To be fair, South Oxfordshire was a special case. In that council, the Tory party were in open civil war, with elected representatives losing the whip and... oh
@HYUFD do you think Boris will go into a GE campaign promising ‘No Deal’ at all costs? If not, prepare to be cannibalised by the Brexit Party.
He will promise as he has done to aim for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop as 52% of voters backed at the weekend with Survation at the weekend and if not agreed by October 31st then he will go to No Deal yes.
At the moment it is Corbyn Labour being cannabalised by the LDs not the Tories being cannabalised by the Brexit Party
Remind me which party had control of South Oxfordshire and the Vale of the White Horse before the Lib Dems took them in May. Was it:
a) Labour b) the Brexit Party c) Jean-Claude Juncker's Merry Men d) the Conservatives
In the European Parliament elections Labour lost more local authority areas to the LDs than the Tories did.
So the conclusion is that both the Conservatives and Labour are losing votes to the Lib Dems. Right?
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
As well as forgetting that you were a remainer you seem to have forgotten that we are members of the EU. It isn’t, yet, a foreign power.
I'll be relieved , if surprised, if No Deal is stopped. The problem however is what next? I do not believe there is a majority for anything constructive in Parliament. I also do not believe the country would tolerate revoke. Where is the party or person with the strategy for resolving this awful mess?
Can’t believe you’re not obsessing over these tweets. Maybe it is the spartan sun sending me mad, but look at this.
‘Jessica Elgot (@jessicaelgot) Tweeted: Meeting including Margot James, Greg Clark, David Gauke, Caroline Nokes, Alistair Burt and Anne Milton.Some attempted genuine engagement with PM on negotiating deal but PM and Gove said they believe any deal is dead if bill passes & said it would only lead to referendum or revoke’
There it is. A clear admission - and truthful, I think - that we now stand on the precipice of referendum or revoke, if the rebel bill passes.
The Remainers won’t give up now. Their ultimate prize is within grasp. Brexit is dying.
BC Sport website. Craig Overton will replace Chris Woakes in the England team for the fourth Ashes Test against Australia at Old Trafford, which starts on Wednesday.
I think the selectors have got a bit over excited that a bit of pacey bounce has unsettled the convicts...when Archer was actually even more effective when he pitched it up at a slightly slower speed.
Overton is wild and nowhere near as good with the bar as woakes.
@HYUFD do you think Boris will go into a GE campaign promising ‘No Deal’ at all costs? If not, prepare to be cannibalised by the Brexit Party.
He will promise as he has done to aim for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop as 52% of voters backed at the weekend with Survation at the weekend and if not agreed by October 31st then he will go to No Deal yes.
At the moment it is Corbyn Labour being cannabalised by the LDs not the Tories being cannabalised by the Brexit Party
But the WDA less the backstop is not on offer. And nobody seriously believes that it ever will be, whatever Johnson might say. Even if it did materialise the ERG and BXP would oppose it.
It can be with a technical solution Macron and Merkel have not ruled out and it is the ONLY Brexit option Parliament has voted for.
The BXP have always opposed the Withdrawal Agreement outright but the Tories still have around a 10% lead over Labour and the LDs at the moment and a 20% lead over the Brexit Party with Boris' current policy of the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop and if not then go to No Deal
Boris can simply put forward a law stating the FPTA will not apply in this instance and an election can be called for October 14th with just a simple majority and he likely will
But wouldn't that directly conflict with the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, which didn't make any provision for a future law doing what you describe? At the very least, surely the courts would get involved to decide whether the FTPA or this new law should take precedence.
The previous parliament cannot bind this one, he is free to amend it is if he has the votes
Yeah, he's free to amend (or repeal) the FTPA, but that's not what's being talked about, is it?
People are saying he'd just put forward a bill saying "notwithstanding the FTPA, an election will be held on 14/10/19", but I don't see how that would work. In that case, you'd still have the FTPA on the statute book stating that any election would be invalid without a two-thirds majority.
The FTPA does not say that. It gives two mechanisms for calling an early general election, one of which requires a motion to get a two thirds majority. It does not say any there are no other mechanisms, nor does it say that there are any circumstances in which an election is invalid. It cannot prevent a later Act overriding it. A one clause Act setting an election date would work in my view and would only need a simple majority.
It would also need to get through the Lords, and in a great hurry. Why do people keep forgetting that bit?
Deliciously, the rogue proroguer is hoist by his own petard.
People, rather, said that Jez is sitting pretty and would be as happy with a Tory no deal as he would be with any other Tory f**k up. The more chaos the better under the current administration. Which is fair enough for a LOTO.
Oh and there is of course the lifelong anti-EU thing as well.
Ah no I didn't mean those people. Indeed they include me.
I'm talking about the conspiracy theory stuff that he has a secret masterplan to ensure that Tory No Deal.
Anyway (top) hats off to you for talking to me about Corbyn without bringing antisemitism into it. That is a first and is much appreciated.
And don't now spoil it! ☺
Why on earth would I mention anti-semitism when talking about Jeremy Corbyn?
@HYUFD do you think Boris will go into a GE campaign promising ‘No Deal’ at all costs? If not, prepare to be cannibalised by the Brexit Party.
He will promise as he has done to aim for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop as 52% of voters backed at the weekend with Survation at the weekend and if not agreed by October 31st then he will go to No Deal yes.
At the moment it is Corbyn Labour being cannabalised by the LDs not the Tories being cannabalised by the Brexit Party
But the WDA less the backstop is not on offer. And nobody seriously believes that it ever will be, whatever Johnson might say. Even if it did materialise the ERG and BXP would oppose it.
It can be with a technical solution Macron and Merkel have not ruled out and it is the ONLY Brexit option Parliament has voted for.
The BXP have always opposed the Withdrawal Agreement outright but the Tories still have around a 10% lead over Labour and the LDs at the moment and a 20% lead over the Brexit Party with Boris' current policy
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
As well as forgetting that you were a remainer you seem to have forgotten that we are members of the EU. It isn’t, yet, a foreign power.
How many Britons agree with you? 3m? The rest will see it very differently.
Remainers are probably going to win this war. Then, I think, they will reap the whirlwind. I hope I am wrong.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
Boris can simply put forward a law stating the FPTA will not apply in this instance and an election can be called for October 14th with just a simple majority and he likely will
But wouldn't that directly conflict with the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, which didn't make any provision for a future law doing what you describe? At the very least, surely the courts would get involved to decide whether the FTPA or this new law should take precedence.
The previous parliament cannot bind this one, he is free to amend it is if he has the votes
Yeah, he's free to amend (or repeal) the FTPA, but that's not what's being talked about, is it?
People are saying he'd just put forward a bill saying "notwithstanding the FTPA, an election will be held on 14/10/19", but I don't see how that would work. In that case, you'd still have the FTPA on the statute book stating that any election would be invalid without a two-thirds majority.
I'm not sure of the mechanics but it seems to be a 'thing'
NAL let alone a parliamentary draughtsperson, but I should have thought that there’s no reason why Parliament couldn't pass an act amending the FPTA to say that a) here’s a new mechanism for calling an election (i.e. the PM says he wants one), and b) it comes into force on assent and expires a week later
Parliament is sovereign and can repeal and amend any previous law at will by simple majority as we do not have a written constitution
MPs are representatives not delegates. The 23/6/16 referendum was created and held on the vacuous premise MPs would have to abide by the result. There is no mechanism that compels them so to do - indeed, none other than Winston Churchill (a man I'm sure you admire) argued that.
If an MP in a pro-Leave constituency thinks crashing out without a Deal is not in the best interests of their constituency, that's for their conscience. A voter can lobby their MP and argue differently but that's all they can do until the next election.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
@HYUFD do you think Boris will go into a GE campaign promising ‘No Deal’ at all costs? If not, prepare to be cannibalised by the Brexit Party.
He will promise as he has done to aim for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop as 52% of voters backed at the weekend with Survation at the weekend and if not agreed by October 31st then he will go to No Deal yes.
At the moment it is Corbyn Labour being cannabalised by the LDs not the Tories being cannabalised by the Brexit Party
Remind me which party had control of South Oxfordshire and the Vale of the White Horse before the Lib Dems took them in May. Was it:
a) Labour b) the Brexit Party c) Jean-Claude Juncker's Merry Men d) the Conservatives
In the European Parliament elections Labour lost more local authority areas to the LDs than the Tories did.
So the conclusion is that both the Conservatives and Labour are losing votes to the Lib Dems. Right?
The conclusion is most Remainers are now voting LD and most Leavers are now voting Tory in the latest polls
People, rather, said that Jez is sitting pretty and would be as happy with a Tory no deal as he would be with any other Tory f**k up. The more chaos the better under the current administration. Which is fair enough for a LOTO.
Oh and there is of course the lifelong anti-EU thing as well.
Ah no I didn't mean those people. Indeed they include me.
I'm talking about the conspiracy theory stuff that he has a secret masterplan to ensure that Tory No Deal.
Anyway (top) hats off to you for talking to me about Corbyn without bringing antisemitism into it. That is a first and is much appreciated.
And don't now spoil it! ☺
Why on earth would I mention anti-semitism when talking about Jeremy Corbyn?
When will Boris launch the promised enquiry into racism in the Conservative Party? It is not as if there is much else going on. Boris is even giving MPs extra holidays because it is so quiet.
Boris can simply put forward a law stating the FPTA will not apply in this instance and an election can be called for October 14th with just a simple majority and he likely will
But wouldn't that directly conflict with the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, which didn't make any provision for a future law doing what you describe? At the very least, surely the courts would get involved to decide whether the FTPA or this new law should take precedence.
The previous parliament cannot bind this one, he is free to amend it is if he has the votes
Yeah, he's free to amend (or repeal) the FTPA, but that's not what's being talked about, is it?
People are saying he'd just put forward a bill saying "notwithstanding the FTPA, an election will be held on 14/10/19", but I don't see how that would work. In that case, you'd still have the FTPA on the statute book stating that any election would be invalid without a two-thirds majority.
The FTPA does not say that. It gives two mechanisms for calling an early general election, one of which requires a motion to get a two thirds majority. It does not say any there are no other mechanisms, nor does it say that there are any circumstances in which an election is invalid. It cannot prevent a later Act overriding it. A one clause Act setting an election date would work in my view and would only need a simple majority.
I don’t think that interpretation stacks up. The point about an unwritten constitution is that when parts of it become written then it is no longer unwritten, and can’t become so again. We now need provisions spelling out when an election happens, and without the provisions of the FPTA being triggered the default remains the date for the next GE as set out in the Act.
What part of it doesn't stack up?
Parliament can alter or repeal any previous Act of Parliament. That is a fundamental part of the way our system works. So there really is no problem with a bill overriding the FTPA to set a new date for the next election - apart, of course, from getting it through both Houses of Parliament. It would need a simple majority in both houses. And I wasn't really ignoring that, Mr Nabavi, just concentrating on answering the suggestion that new legislation couldn't override the FTPA.
@HYUFD do you think Boris will go into a GE campaign promising ‘No Deal’ at all costs? If not, prepare to be cannibalised by the Brexit Party.
He will promise as he has done to aim for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop as 52% of voters backed at the weekend with Survation at the weekend and if not agreed by October 31st then he will go to No Deal yes.
At the moment it is Corbyn Labour being cannabalised by the LDs not the Tories being cannabalised by the Brexit Party
But the WDA less the backstop is not on offer. And nobody seriously believes that it ever will be, whatever Johnson might say. Even if it did materialise the ERG and BXP would oppose it.
It can be with a technical solution Macron and Merkel have not ruled out and it is the ONLY Brexit option Parliament has voted for.
The BXP have always opposed the Withdrawal Agreement outright but the Tories still have around a 10% lead over Labour and the LDs at the moment and a 20% lead over the Brexit Party with Boris' current policy
Not this post again.
Could we make this into a game of Brexit Bingo, I wonder?
Boris can simply put forward a law stating the FPTA will not apply in this instance and an election can be called for October 14th with just a simple majority and he likely will
You are forgetting the Lords.
Boris is going to pack the Lords with pro Brexit peers
Is this before or after we send troops into Scotland and have the NI referendum? It might help readers if you could sort your firm predictions into some sort of order?
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
As I said this morning we all appreciate that it is quite a shock for you and will need some reconciling that your previous preferred party, the Conservative Party, is now pursuing a policy with which you vehemently disagree. But not to worry, there are plenty of other parties around. Perhaps form one yourself?
Because one thing's for sure, as a man of honour you couldn't possibly support a party whose flagship policy is one which you despise and have registered your disapproval of at the ballot box. Nor, as a steadfast champion of the Conservatives when they were a different, more reasonable party, do I think you could have changed your previously sincerely held political opinions and jettisoned your moral code.
I'm looking forward to the betting opportunities of the upcoming GE. Cooper booted out of Pontefract is top of my deliciousness list
Could happen if the Tories stand down and give the Brexit Party a free run, the Brexit Party won the area in the European Parliament elections
If Brexit dies, Farage will shoulder a fair portion of the blame. His decision to carry on harrying the Tories, even Boris, as they genuinely tried to Brexit, has weakened them at a crucial time.
Farage got high on his own supply. His downfall may be sudden and harsh.
Boris can simply put forward a law stating the FPTA will not apply in this instance and an election can be called for October 14th with just a simple majority and he likely will
But wouldn't that directly conflict with the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, which didn't make any provision for a future law doing what you describe? At the very least, surely the courts would get involved to decide whether the FTPA or this new law should take precedence.
The previous parliament cannot bind this one, he is free to amend it is if he has the votes
Yeah, he's free to amend (or repeal) the FTPA, but that's not what's being talked about, is it?
People are saying he'd just put forward a bill saying "notwithstanding the FTPA, an election will be held on 14/10/19", but I don't see how that would work. In that case, you'd still have the FTPA on the statute book stating that any election would be invalid without a two-thirds majority.
The FTPA does not say that. It gives two mechanisms for calling an early general election, one of which requires a motion to get a two thirds majority. It does not say any there are no other mechanisms, nor does it say that there are any circumstances in which an election is invalid. It cannot prevent a later Act overriding it. A one clause Act setting an election date would work in my view and would only need a simple majority.
I don’t think that interpretation stacks up. The point about an unwritten constitution is that when parts of it become written then it is no longer unwritten, and can’t become so again. We now need provisions spelling out when an election happens, and without the provisions of the FPTA being triggered the default remains the date for the next GE as set out in the Act.
What part of it doesn't stack up?
Parliament can alter or repeal any previous Act of Parliament. That is a fundamental part of the way our system works. So there really is no problem with a bill overriding the FTPA to set a new date for the next election - apart, of course, from getting it through both Houses of Parliament. It would need a simple majority in both houses. And I wasn't really ignoring that, Mr Nabavi, just concentrating on answering the suggestion that new legislation couldn't override the FTPA.
My understanding is that you can’t just return to how things were before. Transferring powers from the conventional application of royal prerogative to a decision of parliament is a one way street.
People, rather, said that Jez is sitting pretty and would be as happy with a Tory no deal as he would be with any other Tory f**k up. The more chaos the better under the current administration. Which is fair enough for a LOTO.
Oh and there is of course the lifelong anti-EU thing as well.
Ah no I didn't mean those people. Indeed they include me.
I'm talking about the conspiracy theory stuff that he has a secret masterplan to ensure that Tory No Deal.
Anyway (top) hats off to you for talking to me about Corbyn without bringing antisemitism into it. That is a first and is much appreciated.
And don't now spoil it! ☺
Why on earth would I mention anti-semitism when talking about Jeremy Corbyn?
When will Boris launch the promised enquiry into racism in the Conservative Party? It is not as if there is much else going on. Boris is even giving MPs extra holidays because it is so quiet.
Why did Arsenal sell Mikatarian? All good questions. Nothing to do with my post.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
At some point you are going to have to choose one or the other. (Not that that would make you a traitor)
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
Oh, you don't need to go back as far as 1588. As recently as last year traitorous MPs were trying to conduct parallel negotiations with the enemy:
I'm looking forward to the betting opportunities of the upcoming GE. Cooper booted out of Pontefract is top of my deliciousness list
Could happen if the Tories stand down and give the Brexit Party a free run, the Brexit Party won the area in the European Parliament elections
If Brexit dies, Farage will shoulder a fair portion of the blame. His decision to carry on harrying the Tories, even Boris, as they genuinely tried to Brexit, has weakened them at a crucial time.
Farage got high on his own supply. His downfall may be sudden and harsh.
His tactics during any pre Brexit referendum will be very interesting.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
As well as forgetting that you were a remainer you seem to have forgotten that we are members of the EU. It isn’t, yet, a foreign power.
How many Britons agree with you? 3m? The rest will see it very differently.
Remainers are probably going to win this war. Then, I think, they will reap the whirlwind. I hope I am wrong.
If Bozo wins the whirlwind would be worse, since the political damage would be multiplied up by the real world economic damage. There are no pain free options any more and some sort of whirlwind looks pretty much inevitable. I’d go for the one that doesn’t sacrifice jobs and livelihoods.
Boris can simply put forward a law stating the FPTA will not apply in this instance and an election can be called for October 14th with just a simple majority and he likely will
But wouldn't that directly conflict with the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, which didn't make any provision for a future law doing what you describe? At the very least, surely the courts would get involved to decide whether the FTPA or this new law should take precedence.
The previous parliament cannot bind this one, he is free to amend it is if he has the votes
Yeah, he's free to amend (or repeal) the FTPA, but that's not what's being talked about, is it?
People are saying he'd just put forward a bill saying "notwithstanding the FTPA, an election will be held on 14/10/19", but I don't see how that would work. In that case, you'd still have the FTPA on the statute book stating that any election would be invalid without a two-thirds majority.
The FTPA does not say that. It gives two mechanisms for calling an early general election, one of which requires a motion to get a two thirds majority. It does not say any there are no other mechanisms, nor does it say that there are any circumstances in which an election is invalid. It cannot prevent a later Act overriding it. A one clause Act setting an election date would work in my view and would only need a simple majority.
It would also need to get through the Lords, and in a great hurry. Why do people keep forgetting that bit?
Johnson has looked the country in the eye and told us that he doesn't want an election. He'd look a bit damned silly changing the law to force one through.
Boris can simply put forward a law stating the FPTA will not apply in this instance and an election can be called for October 14th with just a simple majority and he likely will
You are forgetting the Lords.
Boris is going to pack the Lords with pro Brexit peers
I look forward to Lord HYUFD. Will you change your handle on pb.com?
@HYUFD do you think Boris will go into a GE campaign promising ‘No Deal’ at all costs? If not, prepare to be cannibalised by the Brexit Party.
He will promise as he has done to aim for the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop as 52% of voters backed at the weekend with Survation at the weekend and if not agreed by October 31st then he will go to No Deal yes.
At the moment it is Corbyn Labour being cannabalised by the LDs not the Tories being cannabalised by the Brexit Party
Remind me which party had control of South Oxfordshire and the Vale of the White Horse before the Lib Dems took them in May. Was it:
a) Labour b) the Brexit Party c) Jean-Claude Juncker's Merry Men d) the Conservatives
In the European Parliament elections Labour lost more local authority areas to the LDs than the Tories did.
So the conclusion is that both the Conservatives and Labour are losing votes to the Lib Dems. Right?
The conclusion is most Remainers are now voting LD and most Leavers are now voting Tory in the latest polls
We're not quite in that place. Lib Dems are snapping at Labour heels but (Euro elections aside) we've not yet had crossover. And Greens also doing well. What needs to worry Tories is that either you get a semi-formal Remain alliance, or Lib Dems emerge more clearly as the Remain choice. Then that "lead" (which is a lead on an historically small projected vote share, remember) melts away very suddenly in the heat of a campaign.
I'd also note that Remainers coalescing around the Lib Dems and Leavers around Conservatives means the Tories losing a fair bit to the Lib Dems as evidenced at local level in elections in May and June, when Lib Dems were picking up strongly in areas with no serious Labour vote as well as those where Labour is a factor.
Parliament can alter or repeal any previous Act of Parliament. That is a fundamental part of the way our system works. So there really is no problem with a bill overriding the FTPA to set a new date for the next election - apart, of course, from getting it through both Houses of Parliament. It would need a simple majority in both houses. And I wasn't really ignoring that, Mr Nabavi, just concentrating on answering the suggestion that new legislation couldn't override the FTPA.
My understanding is that you can’t just return to how things were before. Transferring powers from the conventional application of royal prerogative to a decision of parliament is a one way street.
The FTPA itself requires a review next year to look at whether it should be repealed. It therefore clearly envisages a possible return to the status quo ante as that is what would happen if it is repealed.
However, we aren't talking about that. We are talking about parliament passing a bill to set a different date for the next election than the one currently laid down by the FTPA. That keeps the decision very firmly in parliament's hands.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
At some point you are going to have to choose one or the other. (Not that that would make you a traitor)
I wont get a choice. One will be taken away from me.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I'd really, really love to think that you've a very dry, self parodying sense of humour, but I fear that you've got those roasters whose political consciousness starts with 1690 knocked into a cocked tricorn hat.
Can’t believe you’re not obsessing over these tweets. Maybe it is the spartan sun sending me mad, but look at this.
‘Jessica Elgot (@jessicaelgot) Tweeted: Meeting including Margot James, Greg Clark, David Gauke, Caroline Nokes, Alistair Burt and Anne Milton.Some attempted genuine engagement with PM on negotiating deal but PM and Gove said they believe any deal is dead if bill passes & said it would only lead to referendum or revoke’
There it is. A clear admission - and truthful, I think - that we now stand on the precipice of referendum or revoke, if the rebel bill passes.
The Remainers won’t give up now. Their ultimate prize is within grasp. Brexit is dying.
And you think Leavers will just give up? Why should they when they've had their vote ignored and ultimately cancelled.
The first day after Brexit is revoked or cancelled Brexiteers will be campaigning for another referendum and to leave. I know I certainly will...
I saw Layla Moran on Sky on Sunday and was amazed at the assumption that stopping Brexit will be the end of the matter. It may be the end of the matter in the Remainer bubble of London and Westminster but it most certainly won't be in the country as a whole.
My understanding is that you can’t just return to how things were before. Transferring powers from the conventional application of royal prerogative to a decision of parliament is a one way street.
Correct. The Parliamentary guidance is clear that Royal Prerogative powers can only ever be reduced not increased. The sooner we do away with them entirely the better.
And where does prorogation fit in all this. Why burn all that political capital, provoke counter mobilisation, involve the monarchy, look undemocratic if just one week later you are then disolving rather than prorouging ? I just don't see a coherent narrative.
I know the story everyone's enjoying is that there's this one ruthless advisor dude who's in charge of everything but it feels more like there are a bunch of warring advisors with different strategies and Boris is picking and choosing based on who he spoke to last. All the things they're doing make sense as part of one strategy or another, but put them together and they're all over the map.
I thought the meta-strategy was that the prorogation was declared in order to provoke the rebels so that they could be deselected for the general election.
A general election without deselecting the rebels first would have much less value.
Can’t believe you’re not obsessing over these tweets. Maybe it is the spartan sun sending me mad, but look at this.
‘Jessica Elgot (@jessicaelgot) Tweeted: Meeting including Margot James, Greg Clark, David Gauke, Caroline Nokes, Alistair Burt and Anne Milton.Some attempted genuine engagement with PM on negotiating deal but PM and Gove said they believe any deal is dead if bill passes & said it would only lead to referendum or revoke’
There it is. A clear admission - and truthful, I think - that we now stand on the precipice of referendum or revoke, if the rebel bill passes.
The Remainers won’t give up now. Their ultimate prize is within grasp. Brexit is dying.
And you think Leavers will just give up? Why should they when they've had their vote ignored and ultimately cancelled.
The first day after Brexit is revoked or cancelled Brexiteers will be campaigning for another referendum and to leave. I know I certainly will...
I saw Layla Moran on Sky on Sunday and was amazed at the assumption that stopping Brexit will be the end of the matter. It may be the end of the matter in the Remainer bubble of London and Westminster but it most certainly won't be in the country as a whole.
A UK-wide referendum on the same basis as 2016 would be a non-starter. First you’d need to remove any obstacles caused by the union.
And where does prorogation fit in all this. Why burn all that political capital, provoke counter mobilisation, involve the monarchy, look undemocratic if just one week later you are then disolving rather than prorouging ? I just don't see a coherent narrative.
I know the story everyone's enjoying is that there's this one ruthless advisor dude who's in charge of everything but it feels more like there are a bunch of warring advisors with different strategies and Boris is picking and choosing based on who he spoke to last. All the things they're doing make sense as part of one strategy or another, but put them together and they're all over the map.
I thought the meta-strategy was that the prorogation was declared in order to provoke the rebels so that they could be deselected for the general election.
A general election without deselecting the rebels first would have much less value.
One of Farage’s key demands to stand aside in Boris winnable seats.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
At some point you are going to have to choose one or the other. (Not that that would make you a traitor)
I wont get a choice. One will be taken away from me.
You always have a choice. You could take citizenship of another EU country and so retain EU citizenship if it really matters that much to you.
Can’t believe you’re not obsessing over these tweets. Maybe it is the spartan sun sending me mad, but look at this.
‘Jessica Elgot (@jessicaelgot) Tweeted: Meeting including Margot James, Greg Clark, David Gauke, Caroline Nokes, Alistair Burt and Anne Milton.Some attempted genuine engagement with PM on negotiating deal but PM and Gove said they believe any deal is dead if bill passes & said it would only lead to referendum or revoke’
There it is. A clear admission - and truthful, I think - that we now stand on the precipice of referendum or revoke, if the rebel bill passes.
The Remainers won’t give up now. Their ultimate prize is within grasp. Brexit is dying.
And you think Leavers will just give up? Why should they when they've had their vote ignored and ultimately cancelled.
The first day after Brexit is revoked or cancelled Brexiteers will be campaigning for another referendum and to leave. I know I certainly will...
I saw Layla Moran on Sky on Sunday and was amazed at the assumption that stopping Brexit will be the end of the matter. It may be the end of the matter in the Remainer bubble of London and Westminster but it most certainly won't be in the country as a whole.
A UK-wide referendum on the same basis as 2016 would be a non-starter. First you’d need to remove any obstacles caused by the union.
OK we'll do it another way and elect a government committed to leaving without a referendum.
I don't want Farage as PM but I'd vote for it if I had to.
Can’t believe you’re not obsessing over these tweets. Maybe it is the spartan sun sending me mad, but look at this.
‘Jessica Elgot (@jessicaelgot) Tweeted: Meeting including Margot James, Greg Clark, David Gauke, Caroline Nokes, Alistair Burt and Anne Milton.Some attempted genuine engagement with PM on negotiating deal but PM and Gove said they believe any deal is dead if bill passes & said it would only lead to referendum or revoke’
There it is. A clear admission - and truthful, I think - that we now stand on the precipice of referendum or revoke, if the rebel bill passes.
The Remainers won’t give up now. Their ultimate prize is within grasp. Brexit is dying.
And you think Leavers will just give up? Why should they when they've had their vote ignored and ultimately cancelled.
The first day after Brexit is revoked or cancelled Brexiteers will be campaigning for another referendum and to leave. I know I certainly will...
I saw Layla Moran on Sky on Sunday and was amazed at the assumption that stopping Brexit will be the end of the matter. It may be the end of the matter in the Remainer bubble of London and Westminster but it most certainly won't be in the country as a whole.
The requirement for leaving the EU is not 51%im a referendum. Its the 30-or-so per cent you need to form a majority government after a general election.
If remainers keep us in now its only a matter of time before a Brexit party or even Conservative party campaigns in a GE on a platform of taking us out, unilaterally, and wins a majority.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
At some point you are going to have to choose one or the other. (Not that that would make you a traitor)
I wont get a choice. One will be taken away from me.
Can’t believe you’re not obsessing over these tweets. Maybe it is the spartan sun sending me mad, but look at this.
‘Jessica Elgot (@jessicaelgot) Tweeted: Meeting including Margot James, Greg Clark, David Gauke, Caroline Nokes, Alistair Burt and Anne Milton.Some attempted genuine engagement with PM on negotiating deal but PM and Gove said they believe any deal is dead if bill passes & said it would only lead to referendum or revoke’
There it is. A clear admission - and truthful, I think - that we now stand on the precipice of referendum or revoke, if the rebel bill passes.
The Remainers won’t give up now. Their ultimate prize is within grasp. Brexit is dying.
And you think Leavers will just give up? Why should they when they've had their vote ignored and ultimately cancelled.
The first day after Brexit is revoked or cancelled Brexiteers will be campaigning for another referendum and to leave. I know I certainly will...
I saw Layla Moran on Sky on Sunday and was amazed at the assumption that stopping Brexit will be the end of the matter. It may be the end of the matter in the Remainer bubble of London and Westminster but it most certainly won't be in the country as a whole.
This has been pretty obvious to me since the fucking idiots in the ERG voted down the WA in March for the final time.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
Oh, you don't need to go back as far as 1588. As recently as last year traitorous MPs were trying to conduct parallel negotiations with the enemy:
The Tory Grandees are joining the fight. This could be the beginning of the end of Brexit.
Agreed. If we do not leave on 31 October then we never will IMO. If the bill passes tomorrow and Johnson is prevented from calling a snap election then it's over bar the shouting, and there will be plenty of that.
I'm looking forward to the betting opportunities of the upcoming GE. Cooper booted out of Pontefract is top of my deliciousness list
Could happen if the Tories stand down and give the Brexit Party a free run, the Brexit Party won the area in the European Parliament elections
If Brexit dies, Farage will shoulder a fair portion of the blame. His decision to carry on harrying the Tories, even Boris, as they genuinely tried to Brexit, has weakened them at a crucial time.
Farage got high on his own supply. His downfall may be sudden and harsh.
His tactics during any pre Brexit referendum will be very interesting.
Brexit actually occurring is career-ending for Farage. He’ll be quite happy if it doesn’t happen just yet
I'm looking forward to the betting opportunities of the upcoming GE. Cooper booted out of Pontefract is top of my deliciousness list
Could happen if the Tories stand down and give the Brexit Party a free run, the Brexit Party won the area in the European Parliament elections
If Brexit dies, Farage will shoulder a fair portion of the blame. His decision to carry on harrying the Tories, even Boris, as they genuinely tried to Brexit, has weakened them at a crucial time.
Farage got high on his own supply. His downfall may be sudden and harsh.
His tactics during any pre Brexit referendum will be very interesting.
Brexit actually occurring is career-ending for Farage. He’ll be quite happy if it doesn’t happen just yet
He walked away after the referendum victory - he can move on to Trump 2020 if we leave soon.
Can’t believe you’re not obsessing over these tweets. Maybe it is the spartan sun sending me mad, but look at this.
‘Jessica Elgot (@jessicaelgot) Tweeted: Meeting including Margot James, Greg Clark, David Gauke, Caroline Nokes, Alistair Burt and Anne Milton.Some attempted genuine engagement with PM on negotiating deal but PM and Gove said they believe any deal is dead if bill passes & said it would only lead to referendum or revoke’
There it is. A clear admission - and truthful, I think - that we now stand on the precipice of referendum or revoke, if the rebel bill passes.
The Remainers won’t give up now. Their ultimate prize is within grasp. Brexit is dying.
And you think Leavers will just give up? Why should they when they've had their vote ignored and ultimately cancelled.
The first day after Brexit is revoked or cancelled Brexiteers will be campaigning for another referendum and to leave. I know I certainly will...
I saw Layla Moran on Sky on Sunday and was amazed at the assumption that stopping Brexit will be the end of the matter. It may be the end of the matter in the Remainer bubble of London and Westminster but it most certainly won't be in the country as a whole.
The requirement for leaving the EU is not 51%im a referendum. Its the 30-or-so per cent you need to form a majority government after a general election.
If remainers keep us in now its only a matter of time before a Brexit party or even Conservative party campaigns in a GE on a platform of taking us out, unilaterally, and wins a majority.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Can’t believe you’re not obsessing over these tweets. Maybe it is the spartan sun sending me mad, but look at this.
‘Jessica Elgot (@jessicaelgot) Tweeted: Meeting including Margot James, Greg Clark, David Gauke, Caroline Nokes, Alistair Burt and Anne Milton.Some attempted genuine engagement with PM on negotiating deal but PM and Gove said they believe any deal is dead if bill passes & said it would only lead to referendum or revoke’
There it is. A clear admission - and truthful, I think - that we now stand on the precipice of referendum or revoke, if the rebel bill passes.
The Remainers won’t give up now. Their ultimate prize is within grasp. Brexit is dying.
And you think Leavers will just give up? Why should they when they've had their vote ignored and ultimately cancelled.
The first day after Brexit is revoked or cancelled Brexiteers will be campaigning for another referendum and to leave. I know I certainly will...
I saw Layla Moran on Sky on Sunday and was amazed at the assumption that stopping Brexit will be the end of the matter. It may be the end of the matter in the Remainer bubble of London and Westminster but it most certainly won't be in the country as a whole.
The requirement for leaving the EU is not 51%im a referendum. Its the 30-or-so per cent you need to form a majority government after a general election.
If remainers keep us in now its only a matter of time before a Brexit party or even Conservative party campaigns in a GE on a platform of taking us out, unilaterally, and wins a majority.
Certainly possible. It’s also possible most Britons will wearily sigh, express regret, and then get on with their lives, happy to forget about politics again.
My big fear is that Britain will develop a dolchstosslegende, like Germany after Versailles. That didn’t end well.
Can’t believe you’re not obsessing over these tweets. Maybe it is the spartan sun sending me mad, but look at this.
‘Jessica Elgot (@jessicaelgot) Tweeted: Meeting including Margot James, Greg Clark, David Gauke, Caroline Nokes, Alistair Burt and Anne Milton.Some attempted genuine engagement with PM on negotiating deal but PM and Gove said they believe any deal is dead if bill passes & said it would only lead to referendum or revoke’
There it is. A clear admission - and truthful, I think - that we now stand on the precipice of referendum or revoke, if the rebel bill passes.
The Remainers won’t give up now. Their ultimate prize is within grasp. Brexit is dying.
And you think Leavers will just give up? Why should they when they've had their vote ignored and ultimately cancelled.
The first day after Brexit is revoked or cancelled Brexiteers will be campaigning for another referendum and to leave. I know I certainly will...
I saw Layla Moran on Sky on Sunday and was amazed at the assumption that stopping Brexit will be the end of the matter. It may be the end of the matter in the Remainer bubble of London and Westminster but it most certainly won't be in the country as a whole.
A UK-wide referendum on the same basis as 2016 would be a non-starter. First you’d need to remove any obstacles caused by the union.
It was always going to be Deal on the EU's terms or Revoke. We knew that in 2016 when Juncker et al was telling us that there was no such thing as Soft Brexit, Canada++, Norway--, etc.
Leavers just kept denying it and shouting that we deserved to have our cake before, during and after eating. And with extra portions too...
Apologies for repeating, but I originally put this on the wrong thread (I’m new!). There are ministerial statements from Johnson, Javid and Williamson before the application for an emergency debate on Brexit gets heard. What’s to stop those statements taking 4 hours each?
There's a timetable on each one - and before anyone gets upset, this is normal procedure and not a hideous conspiracy. Otherwise we'd get filibusters on anything than a single MP dsagreed with.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
The only possible treachery is those who have wilfully or mistakenly damaged our international reputation and advanced the foreign policy agenda of Vladimir Putin. The smell of Russian influence is strongest around those that have led and financed the Leave campaign, and you are most definitely a useful idiot. Actually drop the useful bit.
Boris can simply put forward a law stating the FPTA will not apply in this instance and an election can be called for October 14th with just a simple majority and he likely will
But wouldn't that directly conflict with the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, which didn't make any provision for a future law doing what you describe? At the very least, surely the courts would get involved to decide whether the FTPA or this new law should take precedence.
The previous parliament cannot bind this one, he is free to amend it is if he has the votes
Yeah, he's free to amend (or repeal) the FTPA, but that's not what's being talked about, is it?
People are saying he'd just put forward a bill saying "notwithstanding the FTPA, an election will be held on 14/10/19", but I don't see how that would work. In that case, you'd still have the FTPA on the statute book stating that any election would be invalid without a two-thirds majority.
The FTPA does not say that. It gives two mechanisms for calling an early general election, one of which requires a motion to get a two thirds majority. It does not say any there are no other mechanisms, nor does it say that there are any circumstances in which an election is invalid. It cannot prevent a later Act overriding it. A one clause Act setting an election date would work in my view and would only need a simple majority.
It would also need to get through the Lords, and in a great hurry. Why do people keep forgetting that bit?
I keep asking the same question without a satisfactory answer.
Can’t believe you’re not obsessing over these tweets. Maybe it is the spartan sun sending me mad, but look at this.
‘Jessica Elgot (@jessicaelgot) Tweeted: Meeting including Margot James, Greg Clark, David Gauke, Caroline Nokes, Alistair Burt and Anne Milton.Some attempted genuine engagement with PM on negotiating deal but PM and Gove said they believe any deal is dead if bill passes & said it would only lead to referendum or revoke’
There it is. A clear admission - and truthful, I think - that we now stand on the precipice of referendum or revoke, if the rebel bill passes.
The Remainers won’t give up now. Their ultimate prize is within grasp. Brexit is dying.
And you think Leavers will just give up? Why should they when they've had their vote ignored and ultimately cancelled.
The first day after Brexit is revoked or cancelled Brexiteers will be campaigning for another referendum and to leave. I know I certainly will...
I saw Layla Moran on Sky on Sunday and was amazed at the assumption that stopping Brexit will be the end of the matter. It may be the end of the matter in the Remainer bubble of London and Westminster but it most certainly won't be in the country as a whole.
Tough, we are going to make referendums illegal (and define campaigning for them as an act of treason).
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
I think it's concepts like that which really irritate Eurosceptics: they put national citizenships on an equal footing with those of every other, when really they're not. Again, the EU gets the tone and language all wrong.
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
🤷♂️ my European identity is important to me, and increasingly more so than my British identity.
This is quite incendiary. The rebels are in cahoots with the lawyers of a foreign power.
Laura Kuenssberg (@bbclaurak) Tweeted: 4. Johnson tried to make case he thinks will get a deal but there simply isn’t much faith in that argument - one present said ‘it’s a load of ....’ - on other side another in the room said it’s clear rebels have consulted with eu lawyers
If you want to be hyperbolic, THIS looks like the real coup.
Yes, diehard Remainers are now clearly turning traitor this is 1588 all over again
Oh, you don't need to go back as far as 1588. As recently as last year traitorous MPs were trying to conduct parallel negotiations with the enemy:
Can’t believe you’re not obsessing over these tweets. Maybe it is the spartan sun sending me mad, but look at this.
‘Jessica Elgot (@jessicaelgot) Tweeted: Meeting including Margot James, Greg Clark, David Gauke, Caroline Nokes, Alistair Burt and Anne Milton.Some attempted genuine engagement with PM on negotiating deal but PM and Gove said they believe any deal is dead if bill passes & said it would only lead to referendum or revoke’
There it is. A clear admission - and truthful, I think - that we now stand on the precipice of referendum or revoke, if the rebel bill passes.
The Remainers won’t give up now. Their ultimate prize is within grasp. Brexit is dying.
And you think Leavers will just give up? Why should they when they've had their vote ignored and ultimately cancelled.
The first day after Brexit is revoked or cancelled Brexiteers will be campaigning for another referendum and to leave. I know I certainly will...
I saw Layla Moran on Sky on Sunday and was amazed at the assumption that stopping Brexit will be the end of the matter. It may be the end of the matter in the Remainer bubble of London and Westminster but it most certainly won't be in the country as a whole.
The requirement for leaving the EU is not 51%im a referendum. Its the 30-or-so per cent you need to form a majority government after a general election.
If remainers keep us in now its only a matter of time before a Brexit party or even Conservative party campaigns in a GE on a platform of taking us out, unilaterally, and wins a majority.
What will its policy be towards the union?
Same as now - wave your hands in the air and waffle vague platitudes....
Can’t believe you’re not obsessing over these tweets. Maybe it is the spartan sun sending me mad, but look at this.
‘Jessica Elgot (@jessicaelgot) Tweeted: Meeting including Margot James, Greg Clark, David Gauke, Caroline Nokes, Alistair Burt and Anne Milton.Some attempted genuine engagement with PM on negotiating deal but PM and Gove said they believe any deal is dead if bill passes & said it would only lead to referendum or revoke’
There it is. A clear admission - and truthful, I think - that we now stand on the precipice of referendum or revoke, if the rebel bill passes.
The Remainers won’t give up now. Their ultimate prize is within grasp. Brexit is dying.
And you think Leavers will just give up? Why should they when they've had their vote ignored and ultimately cancelled.
The first day after Brexit is revoked or cancelled Brexiteers will be campaigning for another referendum and to leave. I know I certainly will...
I saw Layla Moran on Sky on Sunday and was amazed at the assumption that stopping Brexit will be the end of the matter. It may be the end of the matter in the Remainer bubble of London and Westminster but it most certainly won't be in the country as a whole.
The requirement for leaving the EU is not 51%im a referendum. Its the 30-or-so per cent you need to form a majority government after a general election.
If remainers keep us in now its only a matter of time before a Brexit party or even Conservative party campaigns in a GE on a platform of taking us out, unilaterally, and wins a majority.
Certainly possible. It’s also possible most Britons will wearily sigh, express regret, and then get on with their lives, happy to forget about politics again.
My big fear is that Britain will develop a dolchstosslegende, like Germany after Versailles. That didn’t end well.
I'm looking forward to the betting opportunities of the upcoming GE. Cooper booted out of Pontefract is top of my deliciousness list
Could happen if the Tories stand down and give the Brexit Party a free run, the Brexit Party won the area in the European Parliament elections
If Brexit dies, Farage will shoulder a fair portion of the blame. His decision to carry on harrying the Tories, even Boris, as they genuinely tried to Brexit, has weakened them at a crucial time.
Farage got high on his own supply. His downfall may be sudden and harsh.
His tactics during any pre Brexit referendum will be very interesting.
Brexit actually occurring is career-ending for Farage. He’ll be quite happy if it doesn’t happen just yet
Yes. It has always been clear that there are a number of high profile politicians whose place on the gravy train would be lost if we ever left. They are on both sides of the argument.
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For every school.
Line.
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In London the LDs came first in most local authorities
As well as forgetting that you were a remainer you seem to have forgotten that we are members of the EU. It isn’t, yet, a foreign power.
‘Jessica Elgot (@jessicaelgot) Tweeted:
Meeting including Margot James, Greg Clark, David Gauke, Caroline Nokes, Alistair Burt and Anne Milton.Some attempted genuine engagement with PM on negotiating deal but PM and Gove said they believe any deal is dead if bill passes & said it would only lead to referendum or revoke’
There it is. A clear admission - and truthful, I think - that we now stand on the precipice of referendum or revoke, if the rebel bill passes.
The Remainers won’t give up now. Their ultimate prize is within grasp. Brexit is dying.
Craig Overton will replace Chris Woakes in the England team for the fourth Ashes Test against Australia at Old Trafford, which starts on Wednesday.
I think the selectors have got a bit over excited that a bit of pacey bounce has unsettled the convicts...when Archer was actually even more effective when he pitched it up at a slightly slower speed.
Overton is wild and nowhere near as good with the bar as woakes.
The BXP have always opposed the Withdrawal Agreement outright but the Tories still have around a 10% lead over Labour and the LDs at the moment and a 20% lead over the Brexit Party with Boris' current policy of the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop and if not then go to No Deal
Remainers are probably going to win this war. Then, I think, they will reap the whirlwind. I hope I am wrong.
no reason why Parliament couldn't pass an act amending the FPTA to say that a) here’s a new mechanism for calling an election (i.e. the PM says he wants one), and b) it comes into force on assent and expires a week later
If an MP in a pro-Leave constituency thinks crashing out without a Deal is not in the best interests of their constituency, that's for their conscience. A voter can lobby their MP and argue differently but that's all they can do until the next election.
Well - you've lost my vote.
I’m a citizen of both the EU and the UK. How can I be a traitor?
Parliament can alter or repeal any previous Act of Parliament. That is a fundamental part of the way our system works. So there really is no problem with a bill overriding the FTPA to set a new date for the next election - apart, of course, from getting it through both Houses of Parliament. It would need a simple majority in both houses. And I wasn't really ignoring that, Mr Nabavi, just concentrating on answering the suggestion that new legislation couldn't override the FTPA.
Because one thing's for sure, as a man of honour you couldn't possibly support a party whose flagship policy is one which you despise and have registered your disapproval of at the ballot box. Nor, as a steadfast champion of the Conservatives when they were a different, more reasonable party, do I think you could have changed your previously sincerely held political opinions and jettisoned your moral code.
Farage got high on his own supply. His downfall may be sudden and harsh.
Do you even live in the North?
And the rest of the week shouting about how they will block a GE.
Meanwhile the govt doesn’t interrupt them...
The Tories will stand aside for the Brexit Party in Pontefract.
https://www.politico.eu/article/jacob-rees-mogg-michel-barnier-and-i-agree-may-plan-wont-fly/
And in my opinion, you are wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY
If Bozo wins the whirlwind would be worse, since the political damage would be multiplied up by the real world economic damage. There are no pain free options any more and some sort of whirlwind looks pretty much inevitable. I’d go for the one that doesn’t sacrifice jobs and livelihoods.
I'd also note that Remainers coalescing around the Lib Dems and Leavers around Conservatives means the Tories losing a fair bit to the Lib Dems as evidenced at local level in elections in May and June, when Lib Dems were picking up strongly in areas with no serious Labour vote as well as those where Labour is a factor.
However, we aren't talking about that. We are talking about parliament passing a bill to set a different date for the next election than the one currently laid down by the FTPA. That keeps the decision very firmly in parliament's hands.
The Labour majorities are too big.
The first day after Brexit is revoked or cancelled Brexiteers will be campaigning for another referendum and to leave. I know I certainly will...
I saw Layla Moran on Sky on Sunday and was amazed at the assumption that stopping Brexit will be the end of the matter. It may be the end of the matter in the Remainer bubble of London and Westminster but it most certainly won't be in the country as a whole.
Well done Lord Copper
A general election without deselecting the rebels first would have much less value.
I don't want Farage as PM but I'd vote for it if I had to.
If remainers keep us in now its only a matter of time before a Brexit party or even Conservative party campaigns in a GE on a platform of taking us out, unilaterally, and wins a majority.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/13/brexiters-lobby-for-european-veto-of-article-50-extension
Huh ?
Oh dear, oh dear oh dear.
My big fear is that Britain will develop a dolchstosslegende, like Germany after Versailles. That didn’t end well.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth
Leavers just kept denying it and shouting that we deserved to have our cake before, during and after eating. And with extra portions too...
Would 17th October still be viable or would it be Thursday 24th October?
The EU should have stuck to citizen of a nation state within the European Alliance. Everything from nation first and ditch the federalism.
Crucial difference.
Whatever will Byronic make of it ?