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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    edited August 2019
    These Brexiteers want No Deal or nothing. They have gone mad. They are willing to inflict economic catastrophe on 100,000s of people across the UK for a stupid fantasy. And a fantasy that was not even mentioned during the campaign.

    The most dangerous people to have served as MPs in generations.

    It is not holds bar now. These people must be stopped no matter what cost to the Tory party.

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1156874248851460096
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    Scott_P said:
    NE of Scotland, home of UK fishing, one of the worst hit places? Surely not?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    ydoethur said:

    Crowd at Birmingham sound like they've been drinking all day. But is only 11am.

    I am old enough to remember cricket being gentile. :smiley:

    Antisemitism alert!
    To give him his Jew, I think it was just a typo.
    He was trying to say cricket used to be bollocks ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    And some people think my puns are bad:

    'The noise is ramping up around Edgbaston, it's a Bears pit out there.'

    Surely it doesn't smell that bad ?
    That would be a Bear's pit!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    I fervently hope that Hammond, Letwin and co are spending August plotting to bring this government down before it destroys the UK economy for a generation.
  • PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,275

    How many hospitals does £6bn buy?
    How many nurses? How many school places? How many council houses? How many bridges? How many traffic easing schemes?

    It all seems so crazy and the chasm between leave and remain is deepening by the day

    I read a report that Boris meeting his opponents in Sturgeon and Drakeford plus NI is only serving to entrench his opposition but that they were not going to be responsive to anything he said anyway.

    Boris and his advisers see this as a fight against the establishment and we can see on this forum how much anger he is attracting but when considered that anger has always been there over leaving the EU

    I have little doubt the Lib Dems will win B & R and a lot will be made of it by the political establishment but the political polling and trends over the next few weeks should reveal if all the anger and negative news on no deal planning and falling currency is actually having an effect or does the public want Boris just to get out on the 31st October and his support continues or even improves.

    There is no doubt at all that those who want to remain must be furious with Corbyn who in a large part has aided and abetted the no deal scenario by not backing remain from the beginning

    As far as losing a majority I think Boris is well aware that September and October will be very rocky and he is ready to call a GE and challenge Corbyn to vote for it. Indeed I think that many mps may be threatening all kinds of things in the Autumn but are they willing to lose their careers as many would

    And before anyone says I am a cheerleader for Boris, he scares the socks off me and as I have repeatedly said on a no deal outcome I resign from the party
    Could I respectfully query your thinking (and that of Richard Nabavi and others) about resigning from the party. If ProjectBoris crashes there will be a huge and urgent need to pick up the pieces. This will need good and sane people to do the picking up and to find a viable way forward. To put oneself in a position of having neither vote nor influence will not, I think, help.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    Scott_P said:
    NE of Scotland, home of UK fishing, one of the worst hit places? Surely not?
    Utter madness. This is a potential economic policy crime. There is no other word. Those about to inflict on the UK should be charged with malfeasance and misconduct in public office.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    I fervently hope that Hammond, Letwin and co are spending August plotting to bring this government down before it destroys the UK economy for a generation.

    The problem is the alternative is Corbyn who would do far more damage.
  • ydoethur said:

    Crowd at Birmingham sound like they've been drinking all day. But is only 11am.

    I am old enough to remember cricket being gentile. :smiley:

    Antisemitism alert!
    To give him his Jew, I think it was just a typo.
    Or he doesn't know how to spell genteel?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Crowd at Birmingham sound like they've been drinking all day. But is only 11am.

    I am old enough to remember cricket being gentile. :smiley:

    Antisemitism alert!
    To give him his Jew, I think it was just a typo.
    He was trying to say cricket used to be bollocks ?
    We should be circumspect in our appraisal of the match.
  • PeterC said:

    How many hospitals does £6bn buy?
    How many nurses? How many school places? How many council houses? How many bridges? How many traffic easing schemes?

    It all seems so crazy and the chasm between leave and remain is deepening by the day

    I read a report that Boris meeting his opponents in Sturgeon and Drakeford plus NI is only serving to entrench his opposition but that they were not going to be responsive to anything he said anyway.

    Boris and his advisers see this as a fight against the establishment and we can see on this forum how much anger he is attracting but when considered that anger has always been there over leaving the EU

    I have little doubt the Lib Dems will win B & R and a lot will be made of it by the political establishment but the political polling and trends over the next few weeks should reveal if all the anger and negative news on no deal planning and falling currency is actually having an effect or does the public want Boris just to get out on the 31st October and his support continues or even improves.

    There is no doubt at all that those who want to remain must be furious with Corbyn who in a large part has aided and abetted the no deal scenario by not backing remain from the beginning

    As far as losing a majority I think Boris is well aware that September and October will be very rocky and he is ready to call a GE and challenge Corbyn to vote for it. Indeed I think that many mps may be threatening all kinds of things in the Autumn but are they willing to lose their careers as many would

    And before anyone says I am a cheerleader for Boris, he scares the socks off me and as I have repeatedly said on a no deal outcome I resign from the party
    Could I respectfully query your thinking (and that of Richard Nabavi and others) about resigning from the party. If ProjectBoris crashes there will be a huge and urgent need to pick up the pieces. This will need good and sane people to do the picking up and to find a viable way forward. To put oneself in a position of having neither vote nor influence will not, I think, help.
    I do accept your argument and that is why I remain a member.

    However if the Francois Baker lot prevail I could not remain
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    PeterC said:

    How many hospitals does £6bn buy?
    How many nurses? How many school places? How many council houses? How many bridges? How many traffic easing schemes?

    It all seems so crazy and the chasm between leave and remain is deepening by the day

    I read a report that Boris meeting his opponents in Sturgeon and Drakeford plus NI is only serving to entrench his opposition but that they were not going to be responsive to anything he said anyway.

    Boris and his advisers see this as a fight against the establishment and we can see on this forum how much anger he is attracting but when considered that anger has always been there over leaving the EU

    I have little doubt the Lib Dems will win B & R and a lot will be made of it by the political establishment but the political polling and trends over the next few weeks should reveal if all the anger and negative news on no deal planning and falling currency is actually having an effect or does the public want Boris just to get out on the 31st October and his support continues or even improves.

    There is no doubt at all that those who want to remain must be furious with Corbyn who in a large part has aided and abetted the no deal scenario by not backing remain from the beginning

    As far as losing a majority I think Boris is well aware that September and October will be very rocky and he is ready to call a GE and challenge Corbyn to vote for it. Indeed I think that many mps may be threatening all kinds of things in the Autumn but are they willing to lose their careers as many would

    And before anyone says I am a cheerleader for Boris, he scares the socks off me and as I have repeatedly said on a no deal outcome I resign from the party
    Could I respectfully query your thinking (and that of Richard Nabavi and others) about resigning from the party. If ProjectBoris crashes there will be a huge and urgent need to pick up the pieces. This will need good and sane people to do the picking up and to find a viable way forward. To put oneself in a position of having neither vote nor influence will not, I think, help.
    I do accept your argument and that is why I remain a member.

    However if the Francois Baker lot prevail I could not remain
    They must not prevail. They must be stopped. Our country is in grave peril.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005

    This is a new one. A separate SCon party would allow the Conservatives to bring in the DUP on the same terms as a unionist alliance.

    https://twitter.com/conhome/status/1156580476590706692?s=21

    The idea of the SCons having a load of MPs in play as an enduring element in UK political arithmetic is on a par with moving about Army Detachment Steiner on the map.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Scott_P said:
    Boris doing well because there are some many loons who want to self-inflect the economic devastation of No Deal.
  • I fervently hope that Hammond, Letwin and co are spending August plotting to bring this government down before it destroys the UK economy for a generation.

    And then what.

    Boris could win
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    You know the Aussies have problems when even Ian Bell starts trolling them: https://twitter.com/Ian_Bell/status/1156877660037033984
  • Mr Johnson starts with worse satisfaction ratings than Theresa May, Gordon Brown and John Major in their first month after entering office mid-Parliament.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/labour-crisis-as-voters-say-party-should-dump-jeremy-corbyn-before-the-next-general-election-a4203251.html
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,391

    This is a new one. A separate SCon party would allow the Conservatives to bring in the DUP on the same terms as a unionist alliance.

    https://twitter.com/conhome/status/1156580476590706692?s=21

    I wonder if Johnson struggles to understand the dynamics of Northern Ireland beyond his own personal advantage. If he does have a handle on the situation and he is brave enough to snub the Nationalists openly, he must be expecting the GFA to unravel and have a plan to deal with the consequences.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    We are heading to constitutional warfare this early Autumn:

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1156875230855475200
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    How many hospitals does £6bn buy?
    How many nurses? How many school places? How many council houses? How many bridges? How many traffic easing schemes?

    It all seems so crazy and the chasm between leave and remain is deepening by the day

    I read a report that Boris meeting his opponents in Sturgeon and Drakeford plus NI is only serving to entrench his opposition but that they were not going to be responsive to anything he said anyway.

    Boris and his advisers see this as a fight against the establishment and we can see on this forum how much anger he is attracting but when considered that anger has always been there over leaving the EU

    I have little doubt the Lib Dems will win B & R and a lot will be made of it by the political establishment but the political polling and trends over the next few weeks should reveal if all the anger and negative news on no deal planning and falling currency is actually having an effect or does the public want Boris just to get out on the 31st October and his support continues or even improves.

    There is no doubt at all that those who want to remain must be furious with Corbyn who in a large part has aided and abetted the no deal scenario by not backing remain from the beginning

    As far as losing a majority I think Boris is well aware that September and October will be very rocky and he is ready to call a GE and challenge Corbyn to vote for it. Indeed I think that many mps may be threatening all kinds of things in the Autumn but are they willing to lose their careers as many would

    And before anyone says I am a cheerleader for Boris, he scares the socks off me and as I have repeatedly said on a no deal outcome I resign from the party
    Boris and his advisers are the Establishment. They became so in 2016. May was trying to rein in, and talk some sense into the new Establishment, with little success.
    The band of Brexiters don't seem to have twigged yet. They are in control. They took it back. It is theirs for good or ill.
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    PeterC said:

    How many hospitals does £6bn buy?
    How many nurses? How many school places? How many council houses? How many bridges? How many traffic easing schemes?

    It all seems so crazy and the chasm between leave and remain is deepening by the day

    I read a report that Boris meeting his opponents in Sturgeon and Drakeford plus NI is only serving to entrench his opposition but that they were not going to be responsive to anything he said anyway.

    Boris and his advisers see this as a fight against the establishment and we can see on this forum how much anger he is attracting but when considered that anger has always been there over leaving the EU

    I have little doubt the Lib Dems will win B & R and a lot will be made of it by the political establishment but the political polling and trends over the next few weeks should reveal if all the anger and negative news on no deal planning and falling currency is actually having an effect or does the public want Boris just to get out on the 31st October and his support continues or even improves.

    There is no doubt at all that those who want to remain must be furious with Corbyn who in a large part has aided and abetted the no deal scenario by not backing remain from the beginning

    As far as losing a majority I think Boris is well aware that September and October will be very rocky and he is ready to call a GE and challenge Corbyn to vote for it. Indeed I think that many mps may be threatening all kinds of things in the Autumn but are they willing to lose their careers as many would

    And before anyone says I am a cheerleader for Boris, he scares the socks off me and as I have repeatedly said on a no deal outcome I resign from the party
    Could I respectfully query your thinking (and that of Richard Nabavi and others) about resigning from the party. If ProjectBoris crashes there will be a huge and urgent need to pick up the pieces. This will need good and sane people to do the picking up and to find a viable way forward. To put oneself in a position of having neither vote nor influence will not, I think, help.
    When You've got a ruined building, sometimes it's jus better to build a new one from scratch, possibly in a different location, than try and repair the old one.

    I think this applies to all the main parties, which are all damaged to a greater and lesser degree.

    Realignment time.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    I fervently hope that Hammond, Letwin and co are spending August plotting to bring this government down before it destroys the UK economy for a generation.

    And then what.

    Boris could win
    He probably will against useless Corbyn, but what alternative is there to trying?

    I don't believe Boris can be blocked from No Deal any other way. Hope I am wrong.
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    ydoethur said:

    I fervently hope that Hammond, Letwin and co are spending August plotting to bring this government down before it destroys the UK economy for a generation.

    The problem is the alternative is Corbyn who would do far more damage.
    No it isn't. I f Parliament asserts itself, there are any number of reasonable options that exclude the extremist headbangers of both sides.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    Pulpstar said:

    You can "cash out" by laying the Tories at a lower price than your back. Indeed spread betting you're often locked in as Sporting Index often "suspend" the markets.
    Betfair has the annoying premium charge but 25-1 would never have been offered at a regular bookies on the Tories so backing on Betfair does allow you to quite literally "cash in".

    Peaked at 34 would you believe. And troughed at 6.

    Back at 34 and (over) lay at 6 would have been great.

    Course, nobody ever quite manages that.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    I don't have a problem with an unmarried couple living in Downing Street. Who on earth would? However, a married man in his 50s with at least five kids walking out on his family to live with a woman over 20 years younger than him is going to raise a few eyebrows even in this most liberal of ages. I guess members of the establishment elite have been doing it since time immemorial, though. They get away with stuff others can't.

    Does it make me think less of him as a man? Undoubtedly. Does it make him less trustworthy? Is that even possible, I mean, really. Will it influence my vote? Absolutely no chance. I think that the vast majority are much more interested in how he does the day job and that is problematic enough.
    Yes. I think, as with Palmerston or Eden or Wilson, this would be much less of an issue if it wasn't part of the wider problem that he's treacherous, dishonest, self-indulgent and incompetent.

    The reason Lloyd George's infidelities eventually became an issue is because they were linked to his corruption and greed for power. On their own, they might have been brushed under the carpet, as Asquith's were.
    I think that pretty much sums it up. He just might surprise us on the competence thing, There is a ruthlessness in him which not only drives his self indulgence and narcissism but also means he tends to get what he wants.
    Rubbish David, the man is just a bombastic snake oil salesman. Everything he has promised so far is pure lies and can only beggar everyone but him and his chums.
    He is an empty lying suit.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869

    PeterC said:

    How many hospitals does £6bn buy?
    How many nurses? How many school places? How many council houses? How many bridges? How many traffic easing schemes?

    It all seems so crazy and the chasm between leave and remain is deepening by the day

    I read a report that Boris meeting his opponents in Sturgeon and Drakeford plus NI is only serving to entrench his opposition but that they were not going to be responsive to anything he said anyway.

    Boris and his advisers see this as a fight against the establishment and we can see on this forum how much anger he is attracting but when considered that anger has always been there over leaving the EU

    I have little doubt the Lib Dems will win B & R and a lot will be made of it by the political establishment but the political polling and trends over the next few weeks should reveal if all the anger and negative news on no deal planning and falling currency is actually having an effect or does the public want Boris just to get out on the 31st October and his support continues or even improves.

    There is no doubt at all that those who want to remain must be furious with Corbyn who in a large part has aided and abetted the no deal scenario by not backing remain from the beginning

    As far as losing a majority I think Boris is well aware that September and October will be very rocky and he is ready to call a GE and challenge Corbyn to vote for it. Indeed I think that many mps may be threatening all kinds of things in the Autumn but are they willing to lose their careers as many would

    And before anyone says I am a cheerleader for Boris, he scares the socks off me and as I have repeatedly said on a no deal outcome I resign from the party
    Could I respectfully query your thinking (and that of Richard Nabavi and others) about resigning from the party. If ProjectBoris crashes there will be a huge and urgent need to pick up the pieces. This will need good and sane people to do the picking up and to find a viable way forward. To put oneself in a position of having neither vote nor influence will not, I think, help.
    I do accept your argument and that is why I remain a member.

    However if the Francois Baker lot prevail I could not remain
    They must not prevail. They must be stopped. Our country is in grave peril.
    And we are well last the point where remaining a member of the Tory party would allow anyone to make any difference. There is little that members can do inside the party now, and the only influence left is to walk away.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    148grss said:


    I think Biden wants a WoC, that could have been Kamala before the attack on bussing but I think not afterwards. Abrams was touted by Biden folks before he even entered the race (she denied being asked and seemed to be upset by the presumption, but she would be a good pick). Maybe Julian Castro, but I do think the ticket will have a woman on it.

    Warren, I dunno, probs a white dude. I'm thinking Mayor Pete; he's trying to straddle the left v centre and is young and enthusiastic and able to talk god and local areas etc. I think he'd be willing to be Warren's Veep and it could create a "unity" ticket. It would also rake in the cash (Buttigeig hasn't polled or performed well, but he is raising a lot of money).

    I don't think the bussing thing is necessarily prohibitive; It's normal and expected that candidates fight in the primaries, and it helps that there wasn't really an identifiable policy difference there. Although she's not great at defence Kamala is reasonably sure-footed, it's hard to see her bollocksing it up, and she's good at at offense provided it's scripted in advance, which is possible if you want the VP in an attack dog role. And she ticks lots of boxes. So she's definitely a strong possibility, I'd say.

    The downside to Kamala is that there's no home-state benefit, since if the Dems are losing California they're probably having a bad day elsewhere. I don't know if Beto would put Texas in play but maybe it's worth a shot. Or double down on the mid-west with KLOBUCHAR.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900

    These Brexiteers want No Deal or nothing.

    That's about the size of it. They never really cared about the backstop - they just don't want any link with the EU at all.


  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Discussion on-going over at Rentoul twitter about how Johnson could No Deal and HoC might not be able to stop him.

    Time for EU to stop assuming Parliament will definitely stop No Deal?


    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1156880490684715009
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    The Armitage tweet backs up my view that rebels have to bring the government down in September.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited August 2019
    Seems JRM infamous directive on written English was kinda of fake news...It was a style guide for letters that are written in his name.

    “My Parliamentary team had drawn up a list of words that, when they were in letters, tended to get crossed out.”
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Cyclefree said:

    I don't have a problem with an unmarried couple living in Downing Street. Who on earth would? However, a married man in his 50s with at least five kids walking out on his family to live with a woman over 20 years younger than him is going to raise a few eyebrows even in this most liberal of ages. I guess members of the establishment elite have been doing it since time immemorial, though. They get away with stuff others can't.

    Boris’s behaviour is par for the course. The mystery is why Carrie should want to shack up with him, knowing his history of serial unfaithfulness to every woman he has ever been with.
    Isn't he, erm, extremely large?

    But, yes, I concur.
    Certainly very thick and looks like the donkey in Shrek for sure
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Seems JRM infamous directive on written English was kinda of fake news...It was a style guide for letters that are written in his name.

    “My Parliamentary team had drawn up a list of words that, when they were in letters, tended to get crossed out.”

    IIRC he himself used "banned" words 700 times in speeches though
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Morning all,

    Off topic, but I thought George Clarke's programme last night on social housing and the start of his new campaign was excellent.

    The material about Vienna and social housing there (all classes, 1st class, low rent, even swimming pools, play areas etc) was really interesting.

    The minister, Brokenshire (departed a week before programme aired) came across as utterly useless, just wibberling about change being important and aware of the issues etc etc.

    Can Clarke do a Jamie Oliver on housing?

    Hopefully he'll do better than that.
    TUD, no hope , this whole lot are just empty vessels, soundbites and bombast. It will end in tears for the plebs.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Obviously if Boris does attempt to prorogue or otherwise subvert Parliament, the correct response is civil insurrection.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Tabman said:

    ydoethur said:

    I fervently hope that Hammond, Letwin and co are spending August plotting to bring this government down before it destroys the UK economy for a generation.

    The problem is the alternative is Corbyn who would do far more damage.
    No it isn't. I f Parliament asserts itself, there are any number of reasonable options that exclude the extremist headbangers of both sides.
    We've been waiting for that since 1679. What makes you think it will change now?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Obviously if Boris does attempt to prorogue or otherwise subvert Parliament, the correct response is civil insurrection.

    From remainers? A severe ticking off, surely.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I don't have a problem with an unmarried couple living in Downing Street. Who on earth would? However, a married man in his 50s with at least five kids walking out on his family to live with a woman over 20 years younger than him is going to raise a few eyebrows even in this most liberal of ages. I guess members of the establishment elite have been doing it since time immemorial, though. They get away with stuff others can't.

    Exactly. This will damage Boris with women voters particularly. My wife, who is not very interested in politics and thought Theresa May was trying to make the best of a difficult situation, thinks Boris is a disgusting individual not fit to be PM because of his attitude to women. And I doubt she is alone in taking that view.
    I do think Boris has a poor reception amoung some women voters i know. One of which called him a "scruffy bastard" on he day he became PM! It made me laugh that reaction! This person has until this year voted Tory in every election. I dont think they will vote Tory again whilst Boris is PM! The LD are going to pick up some serious votes from people like this who cannot stand Johnson and I cannot see Labour voters suddenly voting Tory to replace these losses from the Tory ranks...
    It’s why Labour need to ditch Corbyn ASAP. Many people don’t like Boris Johnson, but consider him by far the lesser of two evils.
    What I cannot understand about Corbyn is his stubbornness in carrying on and letting the Tories off the hook, when a dynamic fresh Labour leader could wipe the floor with Johnson. Someone else may not have the ideological purity of Corbyn. But they would have the power to make changes that would improve the lives of the many not the few...
    They dont have a dynamic fresh leader in waiting and, as is evident from NPs posts, both the members and the leadership want to hang onto the purported purity.
    True but I think Kier Starmer would be better than Corbyn.

    I think Swinson is fresh and dynamic by the way. She is likeable IMO and her TV appearences connect to me as a viewer in a way her rival did not.
    Swinson is a harpie and crap to boot, an overbearing middle class twunt.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited August 2019
    Scott_P said:

    Seems JRM infamous directive on written English was kinda of fake news...It was a style guide for letters that are written in his name.

    “My Parliamentary team had drawn up a list of words that, when they were in letters, tended to get crossed out.”

    IIRC he himself used "banned" words 700 times in speeches though
    It was drawn up by his staff for LETTERS, which it appears that if you write those when he reviews them he crosses them out (so use another one).

    I think Mr Meeks stated at the time his minions have a similar list for similar reasons.
  • 35 for 3
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    My powers are waning.

    Khawaja goes, but Smith's still there to torment us for two days.

    And the umpires have had a dismal morning, haven't they?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    Discussion on-going over at Rentoul twitter about how Johnson could No Deal and HoC might not be able to stop him.

    Time for EU to stop assuming Parliament will definitely stop No Deal?


    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1156880490684715009

    The No Deal Establishment want No Deal. How long before everybody gets the message? There is much self-deception going on amongst opponents, particularly during the leadership campaign.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    3 down!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    edited August 2019

    IanB2 said:

    Conservatives drifting in the betting on B&R.

    Might just be today's mood on here :wink:

    Betting markets like financial ones tend to overshoot then correct. Hence the £ this week (tho it's now sinking again). TSE spotted that the Tories have a greater than 3% chance as the BXP Ltd. balloon deflates, especially with the geography of the seat making it hard to call. Thus punters lumped on until the implied 20% chance seemed too high, and people who backed at long odds cashed in
    Yeah but we're not just talking about spread betting where people can cash out. The Tories are drifting on fixed odds.

    I don't doubt that TSE was right that the implied 3% chance was 'value' but that doesn't mean it will win anything. Personally I think if you took that bet on fixed odds you were chucking money down the drain. We shall see.
    No, the beauty of Betfair with its bet/lay options and markets that allow you to net successive bets off against each other is that you can play the odds like this. I put a few £ on the Tories at 30, following the PB lead, and laid them off again at 8. I went further than most who simply backed the LibDems back to zero, and stand to make a few £ profit if and when they win.

    You could do the same in a conventional bookmaker - go down and back the Tories at 30/1 and then return and back the LibDems at 1/5 when the odds have changed - but it’s a whole lot easier using BFE. Not least because you don’t have to do all the maths yourself.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    We are heading to constitutional warfare this early Autumn:

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1156875230855475200

    That sounds to me as if they are more than willing to suspend democracy to get their own way.

    Grave times.
  • Good job Australia bat deep.....
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    https://twitter.com/imbeccable/status/1156759071002963969

    @rottenborough , this is the only candidate who can beat Trump?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Scott_P said:
    If he is so popular it does not matter then.
    Because he is not popular , that is just bought media. He is booed almost everywhere and they cannot trust having him speak to a real person as he may get a question.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Andrew said:

    These Brexiteers want No Deal or nothing.

    That's about the size of it. They never really cared about the backstop - they just don't want any link with the EU at all.



    That was always obvious. The backstop was and is a pretext.

    So no FTA either. How the hell do they think that anything is going to work if they won't come to any agreement with the EU?
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993

    Scott_P said:
    NE of Scotland, home of UK fishing, one of the worst hit places? Surely not?
    Must be confusing it with the effect of HS2.
  • ydoethur said:

    My powers are waning.

    Khawaja goes, but Smith's still there to torment us for two days.

    And the umpires have had a dismal morning, haven't they?

    Haven't they just
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869

    Discussion on-going over at Rentoul twitter about how Johnson could No Deal and HoC might not be able to stop him.

    Time for EU to stop assuming Parliament will definitely stop No Deal?


    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1156880490684715009


    A Lords filibuster up against a determined Lords majority is a difficult act to pull off. Meddling with Royal Assent would be a powderkeg moment, as would proroguing even once
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Discussion on-going over at Rentoul twitter about how Johnson could No Deal and HoC might not be able to stop him.

    Time for EU to stop assuming Parliament will definitely stop No Deal?


    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1156880490684715009

    At which point, Parliament would reconvene next door, and VONC him.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Nigelb said:

    Discussion on-going over at Rentoul twitter about how Johnson could No Deal and HoC might not be able to stop him.

    Time for EU to stop assuming Parliament will definitely stop No Deal?


    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1156880490684715009

    At which point, Parliament would reconvene next door, and VONC him.
    Is that allowed?
  • PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,275
    edited August 2019
    Tabman said:

    PeterC said:

    How many hospitals does £6bn buy?
    How many nurses? How many school places? How many council houses? How many bridges? How many traffic easing schemes?

    It all seems so crazy and the chasm between leave and remain is deepening by the day

    I read a report that Boris meeting his opponents in Sturgeon and Drakeford plus NI is only serving to entrench his opposition but that they were not going to be responsive to anything he said anyway.

    Boris and his advisers see this as a fight against the establishment and we can see on this forum how much anger he is attracting but when considered that anger has always been there over leaving the EU

    I have little doubt the Lib Dems will win B & R and a lot will be made of it by the political establishment but the political polling and trends over the next few weeks should reveal if all the anger and negative news on no deal planning and falling currency is actually having an effect or does the public want Boris just to get out on the 31st October and his support continues or even improves.

    There is no doubt at all that those who want to remain must be furious with Corbyn who in a large part has aided and abetted the no deal scenario by not backing remain from the beginning

    As far as losing a majority I think Boris is well aware that September and October will be very rocky and he is ready to call a GE and challenge Corbyn to vote for it. Indeed I think that many mps may be threatening all kinds of things in the Autumn but are they willing to lose their careers as many would

    And before anyone says I am a cheerleader for Boris, he scares the socks off me and as I have repeatedly said on a no deal outcome I resign from the party
    Could I respectfully query your thinking (and that of Richard Nabavi and others) about resigning from the party. If ProjectBoris crashes there will be a huge and urgent need to pick up the pieces. This will need good and sane people to do the picking up and to find a viable way forward. To put oneself in a position of having neither vote nor influence will not, I think, help.
    When You've got a ruined building, sometimes it's jus better to build a new one from scratch, possibly in a different location, than try and repair the old one.

    I think this applies to all the main parties, which are all damaged to a greater and lesser degree.

    Realignment time.
    Realignment is a compelling theory. But in practice it has yielded a thin harvest. ChangeUK is but its latest manefistation which is destined for oblivion.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    How many hospitals does £6bn buy?
    How many nurses? How many school places? How many council houses? How many bridges? How many traffic easing schemes?

    It all seems so crazy and the chasm between leave and remain is deepening by the day

    I read a report that Boris meeting his opponents in Sturgeon and Drakeford plus NI is only serving to entrench his opposition but that they were not going to be responsive to anything he said anyway.

    Boris and his advisers see this as a fight against the establishment and we can see on this forum how much anger he is attracting but when considered that anger has always been there over leaving the EU

    I have little doubt the Lib Dems will win B & R and a lot will be made of it by the political establishment but the political polling and trends over the next few weeks should reveal if all the anger and negative news on no deal planning and falling currency is actually having an effect or does the public want Boris just to get out on the 31st October and his support continues or even improves.

    There is no doubt at all that those who want to remain must be furious with Corbyn who in a large part has aided and abetted the no deal scenario by not backing remain from the beginning

    As far as losing a majority I think Boris is well aware that September and October will be very rocky and he is ready to call a GE and challenge Corbyn to vote for it. Indeed I think that many mps may be threatening all kinds of things in the Autumn but are they willing to lose their careers as many would

    And before anyone says I am a cheerleader for Boris, he scares the socks off me and as I have repeatedly said on a no deal outcome I resign from the party
    G you can deal with a thief but never with a liar
  • malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:
    If he is so popular it does not matter then.
    Because he is not popular , that is just bought media. He is booed almost everywhere and they cannot trust having him speak to a real person as he may get a question.
    And yet he leads the polls and seems to be extending the lead

    It could all go the other way but with Corbyn around he is gifting this to Boris
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    Cyclefree said:

    Andrew said:

    These Brexiteers want No Deal or nothing.

    That's about the size of it. They never really cared about the backstop - they just don't want any link with the EU at all.



    That was always obvious. The backstop was and is a pretext.

    So no FTA either. How the hell do they think that anything is going to work if they won't come to any agreement with the EU?
    All they are worried about is burning bridges and doubtless cashing in on the positions they have already taken selling our national currency.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    While politics nerds like us know that the Greens are essentially Corbynite in policy terms (to the point that I don't get why they split the vote in Labour marginals), I know quite a few Tories who are willing to vote Green but not LibDem. In non-urban seats they see the LibDems as the arch-rivals, but the Greens as harmless anti-Brexit tree-huggers. It'd be interesting to see some polling on this for supporters of the main parties - "Would you consider voting for LibDems? For Greens?" I suspect the Greens may be surprisingly transfer-friendly.

    Yes, you might be right on that.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313
    malcolmg said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I don't have a problem with an unmarried couple living in Downing Street. Who on earth would? However, a married man in his 50s with at least five kids walking out on his family to live with a woman over 20 years younger than him is going to raise a few eyebrows even in this most liberal of ages. I guess members of the establishment elite have been doing it since time immemorial, though. They get away with stuff others can't.

    Exactly. This will damage Boris with women voters particularly. My wife, who is not very interested in politics and thought Theresa May was trying to make the best of a difficult situation, thinks Boris is a disgusting individual not fit to be PM because of his attitude to women. And I doubt she is alone in taking that view.
    I do think Boris has a poor reception amoung some women voters i know. One of which called him a "scruffy bastard" on he day he became PM! It made me laugh that reaction! This person has until this year voted Tory in every election. I dont think they will vote Tory again whilst Boris is PM! The LD are going to pick up some serious votes from people like this who cannot stand Johnson and I cannot see Labour voters suddenly voting Tory to replace these losses from the Tory ranks...
    It’s why Labour need to ditch Corbyn ASAP. Many people don’t like Boris Johnson, but consider him by far the lesser of two evils.
    What I cannot understand about Corbyn is his stubbornness in carrying on and letting the Tories off the hook, when a dynamic fresh Labour leader could wipe the floor with Johnson. Someone else may not have the ideological purity of Corbyn. But they would have the power to make changes that would improve the lives of the many not the few...
    They dont have a dynamic fresh leader in waiting and, as is evident from NPs posts, both the members and the leadership want to hang onto the purported purity.
    True but I think Kier Starmer would be better than Corbyn.

    I think Swinson is fresh and dynamic by the way. She is likeable IMO and her TV appearences connect to me as a viewer in a way her rival did not.
    Swinson is a harpie and crap to boot, an overbearing middle class twunt.
    Highly articulate observations once again from our resident grunting chippy Scottish Nationalist
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    ydoethur said:

    You know the Aussies have problems when even Ian Bell starts trolling them: https://twitter.com/Ian_Bell/status/1156877660037033984


    They just got Sherminated.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Nigelb said:

    Discussion on-going over at Rentoul twitter about how Johnson could No Deal and HoC might not be able to stop him.

    Time for EU to stop assuming Parliament will definitely stop No Deal?


    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1156880490684715009

    At which point, Parliament would reconvene next door, and VONC him.
    Is that allowed?
    Parliament is sovereign - it gets to make its own rules.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    malcolmg said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I don't have a problem with an unmarried couple living in Downing Street. Who on earth would? However, a married man in his 50s with at least five kids walking out on his family to live with a woman over 20 years younger than him is going to raise a few eyebrows even in this most liberal of ages. I guess members of the establishment elite have been doing it since time immemorial, though. They get away with stuff others can't.

    Exactly. This will damage Boris with women voters particularly. My wife, who is not very interested in politics and thought Theresa May was trying to make the best of a difficult situation, thinks Boris is a disgusting individual not fit to be PM because of his attitude to women. And I doubt she is alone in taking that view.
    I do think Boris has a poor reception amoung some women voters i know. One of which called him a "scruffy bastard" on he day he became PM! It made me laugh that reaction! This person has until this year voted Tory in every election. I dont think they will vote Tory again whilst Boris is PM! The LD are going to pick up some serious votes from people like this who cannot stand Johnson and I cannot see Labour voters suddenly voting Tory to replace these losses from the Tory ranks...
    It’s why Labour need to ditch Corbyn ASAP. Many people don’t like Boris Johnson, but consider him by far the lesser of two evils.
    What I cannot understand about Corbyn is his stubbornness in carrying on and letting the Tories off the hook, when a dynamic fresh Labour leader could wipe the floor with Johnson. Someone else may not have the ideological purity of Corbyn. But they would have the power to make changes that would improve the lives of the many not the few...
    They dont have a dynamic fresh leader in waiting and, as is evident from NPs posts, both the members and the leadership want to hang onto the purported purity.
    True but I think Kier Starmer would be better than Corbyn.

    I think Swinson is fresh and dynamic by the way. She is likeable IMO and her TV appearences connect to me as a viewer in a way her rival did not.
    Swinson is a harpie and crap to boot, an overbearing middle class twunt.
    Good to see that she’s made it at least to above the median for politicians that you like ;)
  • I am very surprised Australia haven't picked Starc. He always seems to have the hoodoo over England.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Scott_P said:
    That shouldn't be an enormous surprise. The PMIs point to high risks of recessions in both the Eurozone and the UK.

    In the US, the PMIs are the merest smidgen above 50. More worryingly, the yield curve has properly inverted. Out of the six recessions in the post WW2 era, this has only happened on seven occasions. On all but one of those, it was followed within six months by a recession.

    What should scare policymakers in both Europe and the US is that monetary policy cannot easily be used to boost demand. Interest rates in the US are a mere 2%. In the UK they're are... ummm... 0.75%. The Eurozone is - what - 0.25%.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    dixiedean said:

    Discussion on-going over at Rentoul twitter about how Johnson could No Deal and HoC might not be able to stop him.

    Time for EU to stop assuming Parliament will definitely stop No Deal?


    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1156880490684715009

    The No Deal Establishment want No Deal. How long before everybody gets the message? There is much self-deception going on amongst opponents, particularly during the leadership campaign.
    I have assumed that No Deal is irrational and that the only people actively desiring it was the small group of revolutionaries around Seamus Milne.

    However, I am beginning to think you are right, because a No Deal offers the only chance of an emergency FTA of some description with Trump, and the concomitant perma-alignment with US policy interests.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    https://twitter.com/imbeccable/status/1156759071002963969

    @rottenborough , this is the only candidate who can beat Trump?

    Biden is the only shot the Dems have got of beating Trump.
  • malcolmg said:

    How many hospitals does £6bn buy?
    How many nurses? How many school places? How many council houses? How many bridges? How many traffic easing schemes?

    It all seems so crazy and the chasm between leave and remain is deepening by the day

    I read a report that Boris meeting his opponents in Sturgeon and Drakeford plus NI is only serving to entrench his opposition but that they were not going to be responsive to anything he said anyway.

    Boris and his advisers see this as a fight against the establishment and we can see on this forum how much anger he is attracting but when considered that anger has always been there over leaving the EU

    I have little doubt the Lib Dems will win B & R and a lot will be made of it by the political establishment but the political polling and trends over the next few weeks should reveal if all the anger and negative news on no deal planning and falling currency is actually having an effect or does the public want Boris just to get out on the 31st October and his support continues or even improves.

    There is no doubt at all that those who want to remain must be furious with Corbyn who in a large part has aided and abetted the no deal scenario by not backing remain from the beginning

    As far as losing a majority I think Boris is well aware that September and October will be very rocky and he is ready to call a GE and challenge Corbyn to vote for it. Indeed I think that many mps may be threatening all kinds of things in the Autumn but are they willing to lose their careers as many would

    And before anyone says I am a cheerleader for Boris, he scares the socks off me and as I have repeatedly said on a no deal outcome I resign from the party
    G you can deal with a thief but never with a liar
    I had to deal with both in my years running my business !!!!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I don't have a problem with an unmarried couple living in Downing Street. Who on earth would? However, a married man in his 50s with at least five kids walking out on his family to live with a woman over 20 years younger than him is going to raise a few eyebrows even in this most liberal of ages. I guess members of the establishment elite have been doing it since time immemorial, though. They get away with stuff others can't.

    Boris’s behaviour is par for the course. The mystery is why Carrie should want to shack up with him, knowing his history of serial unfaithfulness to every woman he has ever been with.
    Isn't he, erm, extremely large?

    But, yes, I concur.
    Michael Gove was nicknamed Donkey, according to the new biography. He should have leaked that part instead of the cocaine story.
    Are you sure it was due to his penis size and not a reference to his intellectual capacity?
    More like the size of his Dome
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    I am very surprised Australia haven't picked Starc. He always seems to have the hoodoo over England.

    Don't think he's 100% fit.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I don't have a problem with an unmarried couple living in Downing Street. Who on earth would? However, a married man in his 50s with at least five kids walking out on his family to live with a woman over 20 years younger than him is going to raise a few eyebrows even in this most liberal of ages. I guess members of the establishment elite have been doing it since time immemorial, though. They get away with stuff others can't.

    Boris’s behaviour is par for the course. The mystery is why Carrie should want to shack up with him, knowing his history of serial unfaithfulness to every woman he has ever been with.
    Isn't he, erm, extremely large?

    But, yes, I concur.
    Michael Gove was nicknamed Donkey, according to the new biography. He should have leaked that part instead of the cocaine story.
    Are you sure it was due to his penis size and not a reference to his intellectual capacity?
    More like the size of his Dome
    He's an enormous ass.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    Sandpit said:

    https://twitter.com/imbeccable/status/1156759071002963969

    @rottenborough , this is the only candidate who can beat Trump?

    Biden is the only shot the Dems have got of beating Trump.
    I think that is quite wrong.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    dixiedean said:

    Discussion on-going over at Rentoul twitter about how Johnson could No Deal and HoC might not be able to stop him.

    Time for EU to stop assuming Parliament will definitely stop No Deal?


    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1156880490684715009

    The No Deal Establishment want No Deal. How long before everybody gets the message? There is much self-deception going on amongst opponents, particularly during the leadership campaign.
    I have assumed that No Deal is irrational and that the only people actively desiring it was the small group of revolutionaries around Seamus Milne.

    However, I am beginning to think you are right, because a No Deal offers the only chance of an emergency FTA of some description with Trump, and the concomitant perma-alignment with US policy interests.
    There is money, lots and lots of it to be made. The really dangerous revolutionaries are the ones in government. The ones in Opposition are neutered.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,534
    IanB2 said:

    Discussion on-going over at Rentoul twitter about how Johnson could No Deal and HoC might not be able to stop him.

    Time for EU to stop assuming Parliament will definitely stop No Deal?


    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1156880490684715009


    A Lords filibuster up against a determined Lords majority is a difficult act to pull off. Meddling with Royal Assent would be a powderkeg moment, as would proroguing even once
    There are people who care about getting Brexit more than anything else, apparently including Parliamentary democracy. Boris, to be fair, is not one of them. He cares about being popular. The backlash after getting the Queen involved in refusing Royal Assent and proroguing Parliament wouldf be horrendous - we might be out of the EU, but Boris would be VONC'd without the slightest doubt. Which IMO is not what he wants.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,313

    dixiedean said:

    Discussion on-going over at Rentoul twitter about how Johnson could No Deal and HoC might not be able to stop him.

    Time for EU to stop assuming Parliament will definitely stop No Deal?


    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1156880490684715009

    The No Deal Establishment want No Deal. How long before everybody gets the message? There is much self-deception going on amongst opponents, particularly during the leadership campaign.
    I have assumed that No Deal is irrational and that the only people actively desiring it was the small group of revolutionaries around Seamus Milne.

    However, I am beginning to think you are right, because a No Deal offers the only chance of an emergency FTA of some description with Trump, and the concomitant perma-alignment with US policy interests.
    I think you have nailed it. Their idea of Taking Back Control is to take it back and then hand it to our American Cousins, who really will treat us as a vassal state.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Scott_P said:
    NE of Scotland, home of UK fishing, one of the worst hit places? Surely not?
    All those idiots voting Tory to get their livliehoods ruined, will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth soon. What is the betting that it is SNPBAD.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683

    dixiedean said:

    Discussion on-going over at Rentoul twitter about how Johnson could No Deal and HoC might not be able to stop him.

    Time for EU to stop assuming Parliament will definitely stop No Deal?


    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1156880490684715009

    The No Deal Establishment want No Deal. How long before everybody gets the message? There is much self-deception going on amongst opponents, particularly during the leadership campaign.
    I have assumed that No Deal is irrational and that the only people actively desiring it was the small group of revolutionaries around Seamus Milne.

    However, I am beginning to think you are right, because a No Deal offers the only chance of an emergency FTA of some description with Trump, and the concomitant perma-alignment with US policy interests.
    Yes. I was once berated by some on here when I suggested there's long been a hidden agenda amongst elements of the euro-sceptic right to turn Britain in the 51st state. Well, that element now runs the British government and it isn't wasting any time.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869

    IanB2 said:

    Discussion on-going over at Rentoul twitter about how Johnson could No Deal and HoC might not be able to stop him.

    Time for EU to stop assuming Parliament will definitely stop No Deal?


    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1156880490684715009


    A Lords filibuster up against a determined Lords majority is a difficult act to pull off. Meddling with Royal Assent would be a powderkeg moment, as would proroguing even once
    There are people who care about getting Brexit more than anything else, apparently including Parliamentary democracy. Boris, to be fair, is not one of them. He cares about being popular. The backlash after getting the Queen involved in refusing Royal Assent and proroguing Parliament wouldf be horrendous - we might be out of the EU, but Boris would be VONC'd without the slightest doubt. Which IMO is not what he wants.
    I think he wants it by way of being stopped before the cliff, not being NC’d in freefall on the way down.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    I don't have a problem with an unmarried couple living in Downing Street. Who on earth would? However, a married man in his 50s with at least five kids walking out on his family to live with a woman over 20 years younger than him is going to raise a few eyebrows even in this most liberal of ages. I guess members of the establishment elite have been doing it since time immemorial, though. They get away with stuff others can't.

    Exactly. This will damage Boris with women voters particularly. My wife, who is not very interested in politics and thought Theresa May was trying to make the best of a difficult situation, thinks Boris is a disgusting individual not fit to be PM because of his attitude to women. And I doubt she is alone in taking that view.
    I do think Boris has a poor reception amoung some women voters i know. One of which called him a "scruffy bastard" on he day he became PM! It made me laugh that reaction! This person has until this year voted Tory in every election. I dont think they will vote Tory again whilst Boris is PM! The LD are going to pick up some serious votes from people like this who cannot stand Johnson and I cannot see Labour voters suddenly voting Tory to replace these losses from the Tory ranks...
    It’s why Labour need to ditch Corbyn ASAP. Many people don’t like Boris Johnson, but consider him by far the lesser of two evils.
    What I cannot understand about Corbyn is his stubbornness in carrying on and letting the Tories off the hook, when a dynamic fresh Labour leader could wipe the floor with Johnson. Someone else may not have the ideological purity of Corbyn. But they would have the power to make changes that would improve the lives of the many not the few...
    They dont have a dynamic fresh leader in waiting and, as is evident from NPs posts, both the members and the leadership want to hang onto the purported purity.
    True but I think Kier Starmer would be better than Corbyn.

    I think Swinson is fresh and dynamic by the way. She is likeable IMO and her TV appearences connect to me as a viewer in a way her rival did not.
    Swinson is a harpie and crap to boot, an overbearing middle class twunt.
    Highly articulate observations once again from our resident grunting chippy Scottish Nationalist
    More whining from our resident village idiot
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Scott_P said:
    That makes no sense, not that many voted against it when the backstop was still in it last time!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869

    While politics nerds like us know that the Greens are essentially Corbynite in policy terms (to the point that I don't get why they split the vote in Labour marginals), I know quite a few Tories who are willing to vote Green but not LibDem. In non-urban seats they see the LibDems as the arch-rivals, but the Greens as harmless anti-Brexit tree-huggers. It'd be interesting to see some polling on this for supporters of the main parties - "Would you consider voting for LibDems? For Greens?" I suspect the Greens may be surprisingly transfer-friendly.

    Yes, you might be right on that.

    And when you meet Green Party activists most of them are more like the eccentric tree-huggers than the revolutionary thugs within Labour.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Scott_P said:
    Oh dear - how will Justin 24 cope with this news. Mori follows YG. :)
  • dixiedean said:

    Discussion on-going over at Rentoul twitter about how Johnson could No Deal and HoC might not be able to stop him.

    Time for EU to stop assuming Parliament will definitely stop No Deal?


    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1156880490684715009

    The No Deal Establishment want No Deal. How long before everybody gets the message? There is much self-deception going on amongst opponents, particularly during the leadership campaign.
    I have assumed that No Deal is irrational and that the only people actively desiring it was the small group of revolutionaries around Seamus Milne.

    However, I am beginning to think you are right, because a No Deal offers the only chance of an emergency FTA of some description with Trump, and the concomitant perma-alignment with US policy interests.
    Yes. I was once berated by some on here when I suggested there's long been a hidden agenda amongst elements of the euro-sceptic right to turn Britain in the 51st state. Well, that element now runs the British government and it isn't wasting any time.
    The point is that Parliament had the chance to pass a deal which would have been the softest of Brexit's and failed to do so. Those MPs moaning about No Deal now when they voted against a very soft Brexit deal make me sick. What did they think was going to happen? Yvette Cooper and Hilary Benn are the two worst offenders
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    dixiedean said:

    Discussion on-going over at Rentoul twitter about how Johnson could No Deal and HoC might not be able to stop him.

    Time for EU to stop assuming Parliament will definitely stop No Deal?


    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1156880490684715009

    The No Deal Establishment want No Deal. How long before everybody gets the message? There is much self-deception going on amongst opponents, particularly during the leadership campaign.
    I have assumed that No Deal is irrational and that the only people actively desiring it was the small group of revolutionaries around Seamus Milne.

    However, I am beginning to think you are right, because a No Deal offers the only chance of an emergency FTA of some description with Trump, and the concomitant perma-alignment with US policy interests.
    Yes. I was once berated by some on here when I suggested there's long been a hidden agenda amongst elements of the euro-sceptic right to turn Britain in the 51st state. Well, that element now runs the British government and it isn't wasting any time.
    Yes. And it isn't hidden any more. There are plenty choosing not to see what is in plain sight.
  • kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    That makes no sense, not that many voted against it when the backstop was still in it last time!
    Francois is utterly crazy
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    Obviously if Boris does attempt to prorogue or otherwise subvert Parliament, the correct response is civil insurrection.

    No, given Parliament has ignored the largest vote in post war history by refusing to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement or No Deal outside the wealthier parts of inner London I doubt there will be many protests if Boris prorogues Parliament to enforce the will of the people.

    Though a general election soon after may be necessary
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    Obviously if Boris does attempt to prorogue or otherwise subvert Parliament, the correct response is civil insurrection.

    No, given Parliament has ignored the largest vote in post war history by refusing to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement or No Deal outside the wealthier parts of inner London I doubt there will be many protests if Boris prorogues Parliament to enforce the will of the people.

    Though a general election soon after may be necessary
    Remember that realistically half the country doesn’t really want Brexit...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    edited August 2019

    dixiedean said:

    Discussion on-going over at Rentoul twitter about how Johnson could No Deal and HoC might not be able to stop him.

    Time for EU to stop assuming Parliament will definitely stop No Deal?


    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1156880490684715009

    The No Deal Establishment want No Deal. How long before everybody gets the message? There is much self-deception going on amongst opponents, particularly during the leadership campaign.
    I have assumed that No Deal is irrational and that the only people actively desiring it was the small group of revolutionaries around Seamus Milne.

    However, I am beginning to think you are right, because a No Deal offers the only chance of an emergency FTA of some description with Trump, and the concomitant perma-alignment with US policy interests.
    Yes. I was once berated by some on here when I suggested there's long been a hidden agenda amongst elements of the euro-sceptic right to turn Britain in the 51st state. Well, that element now runs the British government and it isn't wasting any time.
    The point is that Parliament had the chance to pass a deal which would have been the softest of Brexit's and failed to do so. Those MPs moaning about No Deal now when they voted against a very soft Brexit deal make me sick. What did they think was going to happen? Yvette Cooper and Hilary Benn are the two worst offenders
    It wasn’t the softest Brexit and they aren’t the culprits. Those responsible are the Tories who refused to participate in the indicative vote process and have shied away from taking decisive action against (or to pre-empt) their new leadership whilst continuing to wring their hands about the risks of no deal.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    dixiedean said:

    Discussion on-going over at Rentoul twitter about how Johnson could No Deal and HoC might not be able to stop him.

    Time for EU to stop assuming Parliament will definitely stop No Deal?


    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1156880490684715009

    The No Deal Establishment want No Deal. How long before everybody gets the message? There is much self-deception going on amongst opponents, particularly during the leadership campaign.
    I have assumed that No Deal is irrational and that the only people actively desiring it was the small group of revolutionaries around Seamus Milne.

    However, I am beginning to think you are right, because a No Deal offers the only chance of an emergency FTA of some description with Trump, and the concomitant perma-alignment with US policy interests.
    Yes. I was once berated by some on here when I suggested there's long been a hidden agenda amongst elements of the euro-sceptic right to turn Britain in the 51st state. Well, that element now runs the British government and it isn't wasting any time.
    The point is that Parliament had the chance to pass a deal which would have been the softest of Brexit's and failed to do so. Those MPs moaning about No Deal now when they voted against a very soft Brexit deal make me sick. What did they think was going to happen? Yvette Cooper and Hilary Benn are the two worst offenders
    Both thick as mince
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    Mr Johnson starts with worse satisfaction ratings than Theresa May, Gordon Brown and John Major in their first month after entering office mid-Parliament.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/labour-crisis-as-voters-say-party-should-dump-jeremy-corbyn-before-the-next-general-election-a4203251.html

    Yet that new Mori poll gives Boris a huge 54% to 27% lead over Corbyn as best PM and an election winning 34% to 24% lead for the Tories over Corbyn Labour

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/labour-crisis-as-voters-say-party-should-dump-jeremy-corbyn-before-the-next-general-election-a4203251.html
  • felix said:

    Scott_P said:
    Oh dear - how will Justin 24 cope with this news. Mori follows YG. :)
    If I am right that is;

    Conservatives +8
    Labour 0
    Lib dems -2
    Tbp -3

    since last mori
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    HYUFD said:

    Obviously if Boris does attempt to prorogue or otherwise subvert Parliament, the correct response is civil insurrection.

    No, given Parliament has ignored the largest vote in post war history by refusing to vote for the Withdrawal Agreement or No Deal outside the wealthier parts of inner London I doubt there will be many protests if Boris prorogues Parliament to enforce the will of the people.

    Though a general election soon after may be necessary
    Remember that realistically half the country doesn’t really want Brexit...
    That will matter not a jot, you are mistakenly thinking we live in a democracy
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    felix said:

    Scott_P said:
    Oh dear - how will Justin 24 cope with this news. Mori follows YG. :)
    The key words are 'for now'. Bxp would not even be at 9 if not for Tory 'brexiteers' keeping us in.
  • IanB2 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Discussion on-going over at Rentoul twitter about how Johnson could No Deal and HoC might not be able to stop him.

    Time for EU to stop assuming Parliament will definitely stop No Deal?


    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1156880490684715009

    The No Deal Establishment want No Deal. How long before everybody gets the message? There is much self-deception going on amongst opponents, particularly during the leadership campaign.
    I have assumed that No Deal is irrational and that the only people actively desiring it was the small group of revolutionaries around Seamus Milne.

    However, I am beginning to think you are right, because a No Deal offers the only chance of an emergency FTA of some description with Trump, and the concomitant perma-alignment with US policy interests.
    Yes. I was once berated by some on here when I suggested there's long been a hidden agenda amongst elements of the euro-sceptic right to turn Britain in the 51st state. Well, that element now runs the British government and it isn't wasting any time.
    The point is that Parliament had the chance to pass a deal which would have been the softest of Brexit's and failed to do so. Those MPs moaning about No Deal now when they voted against a very soft Brexit deal make me sick. What did they think was going to happen? Yvette Cooper and Hilary Benn are the two worst offenders
    It wasn’t the softest Brexit and they aren’t the culprits. Those responsible are the Tories who refused to participate in the indicative vote process and have shied away from taking decisive action against (or to pre-empt) their new leadership whilst continuing to wring their hands on public about the risks of no deal.
    Labour could have voted for it, they didn't. The Tories were always going to lurch to the right if the deal failed to go through. Labour voted against the deal for electoral gain. How did that plan go?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    dixiedean said:

    Discussion on-going over at Rentoul twitter about how Johnson could No Deal and HoC might not be able to stop him.

    Time for EU to stop assuming Parliament will definitely stop No Deal?


    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1156880490684715009

    The No Deal Establishment want No Deal. How long before everybody gets the message? There is much self-deception going on amongst opponents, particularly during the leadership campaign.
    I have assumed that No Deal is irrational and that the only people actively desiring it was the small group of revolutionaries around Seamus Milne.

    However, I am beginning to think you are right, because a No Deal offers the only chance of an emergency FTA of some description with Trump, and the concomitant perma-alignment with US policy interests.
    Yes. I was once berated by some on here when I suggested there's long been a hidden agenda amongst elements of the euro-sceptic right to turn Britain in the 51st state. Well, that element now runs the British government and it isn't wasting any time.
    The point is that Parliament had the chance to pass a deal which would have been the softest of Brexit's and failed to do so. Those MPs moaning about No Deal now when they voted against a very soft Brexit deal make me sick. What did they think was going to happen? Yvette Cooper and Hilary Benn are the two worst offenders
    Not the worst but pretty high up. Self righteous and self satisfied even as their actions demonstrate they want to win to stop no deal, not simply stop no deal .
  • dixiedean said:

    Discussion on-going over at Rentoul twitter about how Johnson could No Deal and HoC might not be able to stop him.

    Time for EU to stop assuming Parliament will definitely stop No Deal?


    https://twitter.com/joe_armitage/status/1156880490684715009

    The No Deal Establishment want No Deal. How long before everybody gets the message? There is much self-deception going on amongst opponents, particularly during the leadership campaign.
    I have assumed that No Deal is irrational and that the only people actively desiring it was the small group of revolutionaries around Seamus Milne.

    However, I am beginning to think you are right, because a No Deal offers the only chance of an emergency FTA of some description with Trump, and the concomitant perma-alignment with US policy interests.
    Yes. I was once berated by some on here when I suggested there's long been a hidden agenda amongst elements of the euro-sceptic right to turn Britain in the 51st state. Well, that element now runs the British government and it isn't wasting any time.
    The point is that Parliament had the chance to pass a deal which would have been the softest of Brexit's and failed to do so. Those MPs moaning about No Deal now when they voted against a very soft Brexit deal make me sick. What did they think was going to happen? Yvette Cooper and Hilary Benn are the two worst offenders
    Very well said and a point I have been making for weeks

    And welcome to PB
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