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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    HYUFD said:

    Lambs to the slaughter for the death cult Leavers.

    If you are a meat eater by definition most lambs will be raised for your consumption, if you are a vegetarian they will not be and indeed most would probably never be raised at all if all followed your lead, whether a Lamb is slaughtered in the UK post No Deal Brexit or slaughtered in the UK and eaten in France or Germany or sent outside the EU to New Zealand or the US to be eaten the lamb is still facing the same fate regardless
    Presumably we'll all be watching the sheep bonfires whilst simultaneously complaining about the food shortages.
    One of the madnesses of CAP was that while thousands of people starved every day in Africa we were paying farmers to grow and then destroy perfectly good grain to simultaneously maintain production levels and keep prices high.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    HYUFD said:

    Lambs to the slaughter for the death cult Leavers.

    If you are a meat eater by definition most lambs will be raised for your consumption, if you are a vegetarian they will not be and indeed most would probably never be raised at all if all followed your lead, whether a Lamb is slaughtered in the UK post No Deal Brexit or slaughtered in the UK and eaten in France or Germany or sent outside the EU to New Zealand or the US to be eaten the lamb is still facing the same fate regardless
    Ah, the Marie Antoinette approach: let them eat lamb.

    I suspect the sheep pyres would be a more doleful sight on television.
    It’s one thing to work to bring a lamb to market but it’s a bloody disgrace if they end up being slaughtered. Is it real? I don’t know but isn’t it about time we did know instead of having to rely on nothing but speculation. A sane government would put the whole project on hold until those who know, rather than those who believe, can tell us what is going to happen.

    Yes the public are bored stupid by it but that’s no reason to make decisions on that basis.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    ydoethur said:

    No deal is better than a baa deal.

    That pun was woolly inappropriate. I think the standard has tailed off.
    Time to cull the flock of puns.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    Cyclefree said:

    Would it be cynical and/or unkind of me to wonder whether Gavin Williamson had anything to do with the leak of Sir Kim Darroch’s diplomatic billets doux?

    Did you not see the conspiracy theory on Twitter (from the director of the IPPR, so not exactly an unhinged Twitter loon) suggesting exactly that?

    https://twitter.com/TomKibasi/status/1150903629374787584
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Would it be cynical and/or unkind of me to wonder whether Gavin Williamson had anything to do with the leak of Sir Kim Darroch’s diplomatic billets doux?

    Given he wasn't a minister at the time of one of the emails, it would be pretty remarkable if it was him.
    Not really. Someone trawls the archive to get the mails. An ex- minister with good journalistic contacts and with a reputation for leaking is a good conduit or source of advice as to how one might go around getting such stuff into the hands of a journalist.

    He has reason to get his revenge on the civil service and Mrs May. He has reason to help Boris. He is now, apparently, in line for a plum position in government. If Boris is PM the chances of any action being taken against him are low. Boris gets deniability but gets the benefit of such a leak. The Brexiteers are delighted. Gavin gets his revenge.

    Not that implausible.
    Do you think the leak benefited Boris? I don't see how. It embarrassed him, brought the video of him saying similar back to the fore, put him under the spot and cross-examination regarding backing Darroch.

    Considering Boris's strategy to date was to play it smart and not rock the horses, that was more like lighting a stick of dynamite and chucking it at the horses to see how they run. Made no sense whatsoever with his strategy.
    Yes, I do think it benefited Boris. He knew he was highly likely to win. And it opens up a plum position for someone more to the liking of the Brexiteers/pro-US gang. The fuss about the emails and his answer is a three-day wonder. The long-term benefits of having his man in Washington are more long-lasting.

    That doesn't mean he was behind it or knew about it. But it may have been the calculation of whoever did do it or encouraged it.
    But the Ambassador was due to retire at the end of the year anyway, so Boris was always going to pick his successor.
    True. But if you're in a hurry - see the reports of Boris wanting a quick win with the US on trade - then not getting someone in place until January 2020 is a long time to wait.

    I can't see how a US trade deal would get through Parliament.

    No LibDem, SNP or Labour MP would back it because of "the NHS". And rural Coneservative MPs are going to hate it too.

    Or am I missing something?
    I agree. But that's what Boris and co seem to want. They have little grasp of reality. Doesn't mean that they wouldn't do daft things on the basis of their tenuous understanding of what is possible.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    I have been fiddling with various scenarios and probabilities this afternoon.

    Boris’s strategy is straightforward:

    1. Try and conclude a Deal, while threatening No Deal.

    2.If, at any point, he is VONCed, enter an election crying betrayal of the people to maximise the Tory vote. A deal with BXP is possible/likely.

    I don’t think he actually wants a No Deal, the above scenarios are preferable. However he needs to hew to one in order to maximise the chances of (1) or (2).

    The risk for him is that he actually does No Deal or that he loses any election to Corbyn, but no one said we were not playing for high stakes.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,289

    Lambs to the slaughter for the death cult Leavers.

    As you well know, any number under 17 million doesn't count.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    HYUFD said:

    Lambs to the slaughter for the death cult Leavers.

    If you are a meat eater by definition most lambs will be raised for your consumption, if you are a vegetarian they will not be and indeed most would probably never be raised at all if all followed your lead, whether a Lamb is slaughtered in the UK post No Deal Brexit or slaughtered in the UK and eaten in France or Germany or sent outside the EU to New Zealand or the US to be eaten the lamb is still facing the same fate regardless
    Ah, the Marie Antoinette approach: let them eat lamb.

    I suspect the sheep pyres would be a more doleful sight on television.
    As I said earlier, Boris will spin it as a Brexit hecatomb.

    ‘A necessary sacrifice...’
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    Would it be cynical and/or unkind of me to wonder whether Gavin Williamson had anything to do with the leak of Sir Kim Darroch’s diplomatic billets doux?

    Did you not see the conspiracy theory on Twitter (from the director of the IPPR, so not exactly an unhinged Twitter loon) suggesting exactly that?

    https://twitter.com/TomKibasi/status/1150903629374787584
    No - I hadn't seen that.

    Interesting theory.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lambs to the slaughter for the death cult Leavers.

    If you are a meat eater by definition most lambs will be raised for your consumption, if you are a vegetarian they will not be and indeed most would probably never be raised at all if all followed your lead, whether a Lamb is slaughtered in the UK post No Deal Brexit or slaughtered in the UK and eaten in France or Germany or sent outside the EU to New Zealand or the US to be eaten the lamb is still facing the same fate regardless
    Ah, the Marie Antoinette approach: let them eat lamb.

    I suspect the sheep pyres would be a more doleful sight on television.
    As I said earlier, Boris will spin it as a Brexit hecatomb.

    ‘A necessary sacrifice...’
    I’m just glad I’ve got plenty of mint in the garden.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Would it be cynical and/or unkind of me to wonder whether Gavin Williamson had anything to do with the leak of Sir Kim Darroch’s diplomatic billets doux?

    Did you not see the conspiracy theory on Twitter (from the director of the IPPR, so not exactly an unhinged Twitter loon) suggesting exactly that?

    https://twitter.com/TomKibasi/status/1150903629374787584
    No - I hadn't seen that.

    Interesting theory.
    Thing is that, if it concerned anyone else, you'd say "oh, that's absurd, no-one would be so childish". Whereas with Gavin Williamson it appears entirely true to character.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Would it be cynical and/or unkind of me to wonder whether Gavin Williamson had anything to do with the leak of Sir Kim Darroch’s diplomatic billets doux?

    Did you not see the conspiracy theory on Twitter (from the director of the IPPR, so not exactly an unhinged Twitter loon) suggesting exactly that?

    https://twitter.com/TomKibasi/status/1150903629374787584
    No - I hadn't seen that.

    Interesting theory.
    Huawei with the fairies... or possibly not.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    Cyclefree said:

    Would it be cynical and/or unkind of me to wonder whether Gavin Williamson had anything to do with the leak of Sir Kim Darroch’s diplomatic billets doux?

    Did you not see the conspiracy theory on Twitter (from the director of the IPPR, so not exactly an unhinged Twitter loon) suggesting exactly that?

    https://twitter.com/TomKibasi/status/1150903629374787584
    The idea that Sedwill wanted the job was widely discussed in Whitehall a while ago.

    https://twitter.com/shippersunbound/status/1138385563147481088?s=21
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,624
    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Would it be cynical and/or unkind of me to wonder whether Gavin Williamson had anything to do with the leak of Sir Kim Darroch’s diplomatic billets doux?

    Given he wasn't a minister at the time of one of the emails, it would be pretty remarkable if it was him.
    Not really. Someone trawls the archive to get the mails. An ex- minister with good journalistic contacts and with a reputation for leaking is a good conduit or source of advice as to how one might go around getting such stuff into the hands of a journalist.

    He has reason to get his revenge on the civil service and Mrs May. He has reason to help Boris. He is now, apparently, in line for a plum position in government. If Boris is PM the chances of any action being taken against him are low. Boris gets deniability but gets the benefit of such a leak. The Brexiteers are delighted. Gavin gets his revenge.

    Not that implausible.
    Do you think the leak benefited Boris? I don't see how. It embarrassed him, brought the video of him saying similar back to the fore, put him under the spot and cross-examination regarding backing Darroch.

    Considering Boris's strategy to date was to play it smart and not rock the horses, that was more like lighting a stick of dynamite and chucking it at the horses to see how they run. Made no sense whatsoever with his strategy.
    Yes, I do think it benefited Boris. He knew he was highly likely to win. And it opens up a plum position for someone more to the liking of the Brexiteers/pro-US gang. The fuss about the emails and his answer is a three-day wonder. The long-term benefits of having his man in Washington are more long-lasting.

    That doesn't mean he was behind it or knew about it. But it may have been the calculation of whoever did do it or encouraged it.
    But the Ambassador was due to retire at the end of the year anyway, so Boris was always going to pick his successor.
    True. But if you're in a hurry - see the reports of Boris wanting a quick win with the US on trade - then not getting someone in place until January 2020 is a long time to wait.

    I can't see how a US trade deal would get through Parliament.

    No LibDem, SNP or Labour MP would back it because of "the NHS". And rural Coneservative MPs are going to hate it too.

    Or am I missing something?
    Who apart from the likes of Fox and Boris is actually supporting a hypothetical US trade deal ?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,624
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lambs to the slaughter for the death cult Leavers.

    If you are a meat eater by definition most lambs will be raised for your consumption, if you are a vegetarian they will not be and indeed most would probably never be raised at all if all followed your lead, whether a Lamb is slaughtered in the UK post No Deal Brexit or slaughtered in the UK and eaten in France or Germany or sent outside the EU to New Zealand or the US to be eaten the lamb is still facing the same fate regardless
    Presumably we'll all be watching the sheep bonfires whilst simultaneously complaining about the food shortages.
    One of the madnesses of CAP was that while thousands of people starved every day in Africa we were paying farmers to grow and then destroy perfectly good grain to simultaneously maintain production levels and keep prices high.
    It was worse in the 1980s with the wine lakes and butter mountains (often sold at less than cost price to the Soviet Union).
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lambs to the slaughter for the death cult Leavers.

    If you are a meat eater by definition most lambs will be raised for your consumption, if you are a vegetarian they will not be and indeed most would probably never be raised at all if all followed your lead, whether a Lamb is slaughtered in the UK post No Deal Brexit or slaughtered in the UK and eaten in France or Germany or sent outside the EU to New Zealand or the US to be eaten the lamb is still facing the same fate regardless
    Presumably we'll all be watching the sheep bonfires whilst simultaneously complaining about the food shortages.
    One of the madnesses of CAP was that while thousands of people starved every day in Africa we were paying farmers to grow and then destroy perfectly good grain to simultaneously maintain production levels and keep prices high.
    It was worse in the 1980s with the wine lakes and butter mountains (often sold at less than cost price to the Soviet Union).
    That's the amazing thing about the CAP. For all its current absurdities, it used to be even worse.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited July 2019

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lambs to the slaughter for the death cult Leavers.

    If you are a meat eater by definition most lambs will be raised for your consumption, if you are a vegetarian they will not be and indeed most would probably never be raised at all if all followed your lead, whether a Lamb is slaughtered in the UK post No Deal Brexit or slaughtered in the UK and eaten in France or Germany or sent outside the EU to New Zealand or the US to be eaten the lamb is still facing the same fate regardless
    Presumably we'll all be watching the sheep bonfires whilst simultaneously complaining about the food shortages.
    One of the madnesses of CAP was that while thousands of people starved every day in Africa we were paying farmers to grow and then destroy perfectly good grain to simultaneously maintain production levels and keep prices high.
    It was worse in the 1980s with the wine lakes and butter mountains (often sold at less than cost price to the Soviet Union).
    Many years ago when I was doing A-level economics the ardently Socialist lecturer took us through CAP and then posited three realistic alternatives to it - market forces, guaranteed minimum income after selling at market prices, or full state procurement.

    It's interesting to note that CAP was placed bottom of the four by every member of the class. One tried to be clever and went for market forces, and the rest went for option 2.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217

    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.

    Has Boris done a fretful mazurka yet ?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lambs to the slaughter for the death cult Leavers.

    If you are a meat eater by definition most lambs will be raised for your consumption, if you are a vegetarian they will not be and indeed most would probably never be raised at all if all followed your lead, whether a Lamb is slaughtered in the UK post No Deal Brexit or slaughtered in the UK and eaten in France or Germany or sent outside the EU to New Zealand or the US to be eaten the lamb is still facing the same fate regardless
    Ah, the Marie Antoinette approach: let them eat lamb.

    I suspect the sheep pyres would be a more doleful sight on television.
    As I said earlier, Boris will spin it as a Brexit hecatomb.

    ‘A necessary sacrifice...’
    I’m just glad I’ve got plenty of mint in the garden.
    I've heard it runs absolubtely riot if planted into soil outwith a pot !
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lambs to the slaughter for the death cult Leavers.

    If you are a meat eater by definition most lambs will be raised for your consumption, if you are a vegetarian they will not be and indeed most would probably never be raised at all if all followed your lead, whether a Lamb is slaughtered in the UK post No Deal Brexit or slaughtered in the UK and eaten in France or Germany or sent outside the EU to New Zealand or the US to be eaten the lamb is still facing the same fate regardless
    Ah, the Marie Antoinette approach: let them eat lamb.

    I suspect the sheep pyres would be a more doleful sight on television.
    As I said earlier, Boris will spin it as a Brexit hecatomb.

    ‘A necessary sacrifice...’
    I’m just glad I’ve got plenty of mint in the garden.
    I've heard it runs absolubtely riot if planted into soil outwith a pot !
    Never ever plant mint directly into the ground. It's an absolute thug of a plant and will take over. Always in a pot.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lambs to the slaughter for the death cult Leavers.

    If you are a meat eater by definition most lambs will be raised for your consumption, if you are a vegetarian they will not be and indeed most would probably never be raised at all if all followed your lead, whether a Lamb is slaughtered in the UK post No Deal Brexit or slaughtered in the UK and eaten in France or Germany or sent outside the EU to New Zealand or the US to be eaten the lamb is still facing the same fate regardless
    Ah, the Marie Antoinette approach: let them eat lamb.

    I suspect the sheep pyres would be a more doleful sight on television.
    As I said earlier, Boris will spin it as a Brexit hecatomb.

    ‘A necessary sacrifice...’
    I’m just glad I’ve got plenty of mint in the garden.
    Stop boasting. We all know you're minted.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lambs to the slaughter for the death cult Leavers.

    If you are a meat eater by definition most lambs will be raised for your consumption, if you are a vegetarian they will not be and indeed most would probably never be raised at all if all followed your lead, whether a Lamb is slaughtered in the UK post No Deal Brexit or slaughtered in the UK and eaten in France or Germany or sent outside the EU to New Zealand or the US to be eaten the lamb is still facing the same fate regardless
    Ah, the Marie Antoinette approach: let them eat lamb.

    I suspect the sheep pyres would be a more doleful sight on television.
    As I said earlier, Boris will spin it as a Brexit hecatomb.

    ‘A necessary sacrifice...’
    I’m just glad I’ve got plenty of mint in the garden.
    I've heard it runs absolubtely riot if planted into soil outwith a pot !
    It does indeed. At my Hungarian place in particular, it’s a menace. Ironically, Hungarians don’t really eat lamb.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lambs to the slaughter for the death cult Leavers.

    If you are a meat eater by definition most lambs will be raised for your consumption, if you are a vegetarian they will not be and indeed most would probably never be raised at all if all followed your lead, whether a Lamb is slaughtered in the UK post No Deal Brexit or slaughtered in the UK and eaten in France or Germany or sent outside the EU to New Zealand or the US to be eaten the lamb is still facing the same fate regardless
    Ah, the Marie Antoinette approach: let them eat lamb.

    I suspect the sheep pyres would be a more doleful sight on television.
    As I said earlier, Boris will spin it as a Brexit hecatomb.

    ‘A necessary sacrifice...’
    I’m just glad I’ve got plenty of mint in the garden.
    I've heard it runs absolubtely riot if planted into soil outwith a pot !
    It does indeed. At my Hungarian place in particular, it’s a menace. Ironically, Hungarians don’t really eat lamb.
    Do they drink mojitos
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    nichomar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lambs to the slaughter for the death cult Leavers.

    If you are a meat eater by definition most lambs will be raised for your consumption, if you are a vegetarian they will not be and indeed most would probably never be raised at all if all followed your lead, whether a Lamb is slaughtered in the UK post No Deal Brexit or slaughtered in the UK and eaten in France or Germany or sent outside the EU to New Zealand or the US to be eaten the lamb is still facing the same fate regardless
    Ah, the Marie Antoinette approach: let them eat lamb.

    I suspect the sheep pyres would be a more doleful sight on television.
    As I said earlier, Boris will spin it as a Brexit hecatomb.

    ‘A necessary sacrifice...’
    I’m just glad I’ve got plenty of mint in the garden.
    I've heard it runs absolubtely riot if planted into soil outwith a pot !
    It does indeed. At my Hungarian place in particular, it’s a menace. Ironically, Hungarians don’t really eat lamb.
    Do they drink mojitos
    I do, which is the important thing.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    kjh said:

    malcolmg said:

    kjh said:

    TGOHF said:
    Oh for goodness sake we have to be able to distinguish between a pun based upon a sterotype and actual discrimination. I doubt Hammond actually believe 'girls are less able to fly a plane. Puns about homosexuals organising the cushions, white men not being able to dance, mother-in-laws, women parking, Irish/Polish people doing illogical things, etc, etc are ok. It is alright to tell jokes about these things. My wife and I will often quip about each others inadequacies along these lines. Neither of us believes it in real life.
    Harry is one of the multitude of snowflakes around who like to be offended with just about anything
    I forgot of course you get ribbed re turnips, but I'm guessing you don't take offence and those ribbing you don't actually think your consumption or involvement with said vegetable is any greater than that of the rest of us.
    lol, not at all
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.

    You deserve to be paid for that paragraph. (Not being sarcastic).
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lambs to the slaughter for the death cult Leavers.

    If you are a meat eater by definition most lambs will be raised for your consumption, if you are a vegetarian they will not be and indeed most would probably never be raised at all if all followed your lead, whether a Lamb is slaughtered in the UK post No Deal Brexit or slaughtered in the UK and eaten in France or Germany or sent outside the EU to New Zealand or the US to be eaten the lamb is still facing the same fate regardless
    Presumably we'll all be watching the sheep bonfires whilst simultaneously complaining about the food shortages.
    One of the madnesses of CAP was that while thousands of people starved every day in Africa we were paying farmers to grow and then destroy perfectly good grain to simultaneously maintain production levels and keep prices high.
    It was worse in the 1980s with the wine lakes and butter mountains (often sold at less than cost price to the Soviet Union).
    Many years ago when I was doing A-level economics the ardently Socialist lecturer took us through CAP and then posited three realistic alternatives to it - market forces, guaranteed minimum income after selling at market prices, or full state procurement.

    It's interesting to note that CAP was placed bottom of the four by every member of the class. One tried to be clever and went for market forces, and the rest went for option 2.
    Interestingly, option 2 is how 'Contract for Difference' works for renewable electricity.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited July 2019
    Roger said:

    OT. What's going on with ex pop starsand small venues at the moment?. Apparently a few members of Jamiroquai are playing in a bar which takes about 30 tonight in Villefranche and I've just heard that Spandau Ballet are on in Hale Barnes! Thicko's constituency.

    Fashion probably. Big venues regarded as corporate, impersonal and old hat.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    AndyJS said:

    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.

    You deserve to be paid for that paragraph. (Not being sarcastic).
    It’s a PB in-joke.
    Copyright belongs I think to the Birmingham Mail...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lambs to the slaughter for the death cult Leavers.

    If you are a meat eater by definition most lambs will be raised for your consumption, if you are a vegetarian they will not be and indeed most would probably never be raised at all if all followed your lead, whether a Lamb is slaughtered in the UK post No Deal Brexit or slaughtered in the UK and eaten in France or Germany or sent outside the EU to New Zealand or the US to be eaten the lamb is still facing the same fate regardless
    Ah, the Marie Antoinette approach: let them eat lamb.

    I suspect the sheep pyres would be a more doleful sight on television.
    As I said earlier, Boris will spin it as a Brexit hecatomb.

    ‘A necessary sacrifice...’
    I’m just glad I’ve got plenty of mint in the garden.
    I've heard it runs absolubtely riot if planted into soil outwith a pot !
    It does indeed. At my Hungarian place in particular, it’s a menace. Ironically, Hungarians don’t really eat lamb.
    A hazug embert hamarabb utolérik, mint a sánta kutyát.

    Very topical
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683

    AndyJS said:

    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.

    You deserve to be paid for that paragraph. (Not being sarcastic).
    It’s a PB in-joke.
    Copyright belongs I think to the Birmingham Mail...
    New Statesman I think:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase?amp
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    I have been fiddling with various scenarios and probabilities this afternoon.

    Boris’s strategy is straightforward:

    1. Try and conclude a Deal, while threatening No Deal.

    2.If, at any point, he is VONCed, enter an election crying betrayal of the people to maximise the Tory vote. A deal with BXP is possible/likely.

    I don’t think he actually wants a No Deal, the above scenarios are preferable. However he needs to hew to one in order to maximise the chances of (1) or (2).

    The risk for him is that he actually does No Deal or that he loses any election to Corbyn, but no one said we were not playing for high stakes.

    Bozo supported May's deal in the end. Yes, the one he resigned over.

    I imagine that he will just try and ram it through parliament, but with added bullshit and bluster to make it look like something different.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Sherrod Brown must be kicking himself that he didn't pull the trigger on his run.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    kjh said:

    malcolmg said:

    kjh said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    eek said:

    Native or discovering (in the case of Gove especially) that the detailed facts paint a very different picture to the glossy story Brexit promised...

    Gove has apparently said that the culling of livestock after No Deal will not be "widespread"

    Just areas of the country with farms, perhaps...
    Surely they could just give out free lamb for all
    I assume there might be the odd logistics problem (butchering, distribution, etc) and I'm guessing the beef farmers might get a bit miffed.
    Yes but better than wasting it , though that is the most likely thing they would do
    Yep. Burn them or bury in a pit.
    Much as I dislike the Goves, that is a bit excessive. Can't we just fire them?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    Alistair said:

    Sherrod Brown must be kicking himself that he didn't pull the trigger on his run.

    Sherrod Brown's result in Ohio was pretty weak compared to that achieved by Tammy Whatshername in Wisconsin.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lambs to the slaughter for the death cult Leavers.

    If you are a meat eater by definition most lambs will be raised for your consumption, if you are a vegetarian they will not be and indeed most would probably never be raised at all if all followed your lead, whether a Lamb is slaughtered in the UK post No Deal Brexit or slaughtered in the UK and eaten in France or Germany or sent outside the EU to New Zealand or the US to be eaten the lamb is still facing the same fate regardless
    Presumably we'll all be watching the sheep bonfires whilst simultaneously complaining about the food shortages.
    One of the madnesses of CAP was that while thousands of people starved every day in Africa we were paying farmers to grow and then destroy perfectly good grain to simultaneously maintain production levels and keep prices high.
    It was worse in the 1980s with the wine lakes and butter mountains (often sold at less than cost price to the Soviet Union).
    Many years ago when I was doing A-level economics the ardently Socialist lecturer took us through CAP and then posited three realistic alternatives to it - market forces, guaranteed minimum income after selling at market prices, or full state procurement.

    It's interesting to note that CAP was placed bottom of the four by every member of the class. One tried to be clever and went for market forces, and the rest went for option 2.
    Interestingly, option 2 is how 'Contract for Difference' works for renewable electricity.
    It is a very sensible system (albeit not a perfect one) for something affected by outside factors but very desirable to have. We need food, we need power. They are adversely affected by the weather and events in other countries - why not reduce the insecurity and risk involved by saying 'If you get less than X, we will top it up?'
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Boris keeps going on about "uniting the country" but how on earth is he going to do that? A 'No Deal' Brexit certainly wouldn't do that.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Boris keeps going on about "uniting the country" but how on earth is he going to do that? A 'No Deal' Brexit certainly wouldn't do that.

    Uniting the country in loathing of him.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    AndyJS said:

    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.

    You deserve to be paid for that paragraph. (Not being sarcastic).
    It’s a PB in-joke.
    Copyright belongs I think to the Birmingham Mail...
    New Statesman I think:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase?amp
    That article truly is something to behold.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    AndyJS said:

    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.

    You deserve to be paid for that paragraph. (Not being sarcastic).
    It’s a PB in-joke.
    Copyright belongs I think to the Birmingham Mail...
    New Statesman I think:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase?amp
    What. The. Actual. Fuck. Was. That. Article????

    I've never read it before. I hope I never read it again. It made me feel wrong inside, like taking out your own appendix.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Boris is now talking about a kipper smoker on the Isle of Man. When was the Isle of Man ever in the EU?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited July 2019
    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.

    You deserve to be paid for that paragraph. (Not being sarcastic).
    It’s a PB in-joke.
    Copyright belongs I think to the Birmingham Mail...
    New Statesman I think:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase?amp
    What. The. Actual. Fuck. Was. That. Article????

    I've never read it before. I hope I never read it again. It made me feel wrong inside, like taking out your own appendix.
    Look up thread the very same words were used 15 mins ago that’s why it’s a PB in joke
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    Except he won't be giving the turkeys a chance to vote for it.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.

    You deserve to be paid for that paragraph. (Not being sarcastic).
    It’s a PB in-joke.
    Copyright belongs I think to the Birmingham Mail...
    New Statesman I think:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase?amp
    What. The. Actual. Fuck. Was. That. Article????

    I've never read it before. I hope I never read it again. It made me feel wrong inside, like taking out your own appendix.
    Oh yes, the famous Sion Simon article.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237
    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.

    You deserve to be paid for that paragraph. (Not being sarcastic).
    It’s a PB in-joke.
    Copyright belongs I think to the Birmingham Mail...
    New Statesman I think:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase?amp
    What. The. Actual. Fuck. Was. That. Article????

    I've never read it before. I hope I never read it again. It made me feel wrong inside, like taking out your own appendix.
    You know, that article reminds me of some of the posters on here...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Boris keeps going on about "uniting the country" but how on earth is he going to do that? A 'No Deal' Brexit certainly wouldn't do that.

    Uniting the country in loathing of him.
    Quite. The man is an ocean-going arsehole.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Boris undone by er, question 1, when are you having a Queen's Speech?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lambs to the slaughter for the death cult Leavers.

    If you are a meat eater by definition most lambs will be raised for your consumption, if you are a vegetarian they will not be and indeed most would probably never be raised at all if all followed your lead, whether a Lamb is slaughtered in the UK post No Deal Brexit or slaughtered in the UK and eaten in France or Germany or sent outside the EU to New Zealand or the US to be eaten the lamb is still facing the same fate regardless
    Presumably we'll all be watching the sheep bonfires whilst simultaneously complaining about the food shortages.
    One of the madnesses of CAP was that while thousands of people starved every day in Africa we were paying farmers to grow and then destroy perfectly good grain to simultaneously maintain production levels and keep prices high.
    It was worse in the 1980s with the wine lakes and butter mountains (often sold at less than cost price to the Soviet Union).
    Many years ago when I was doing A-level economics the ardently Socialist lecturer took us through CAP and then posited three realistic alternatives to it - market forces, guaranteed minimum income after selling at market prices, or full state procurement.

    It's interesting to note that CAP was placed bottom of the four by every member of the class. One tried to be clever and went for market forces, and the rest went for option 2.
    Interestingly, option 2 is how 'Contract for Difference' works for renewable electricity.
    It is a very sensible system (albeit not a perfect one) for something affected by outside factors but very desirable to have. We need food, we need power. They are adversely affected by the weather and events in other countries - why not reduce the insecurity and risk involved by saying 'If you get less than X, we will top it up?'
    There is also the flip side - 'If you get more than X, give back the extra' which means that it isn't a 'cake and eat it' system. So the banking sector would never accept it.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.

    You deserve to be paid for that paragraph. (Not being sarcastic).
    It’s a PB in-joke.
    Copyright belongs I think to the Birmingham Mail...
    New Statesman I think:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase?amp
    What. The. Actual. Fuck. Was. That. Article????

    I've never read it before. I hope I never read it again. It made me feel wrong inside, like taking out your own appendix.
    You know, that article reminds me of some of the posters on here...
    I always thought it was rather SeanT esque in its own way
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    AndyJS said:

    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.

    You deserve to be paid for that paragraph. (Not being sarcastic).
    It’s a PB in-joke.
    Copyright belongs I think to the Birmingham Mail...
    New Statesman I think:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase?amp
    What. The. Actual. Fuck. Was. That. Article????

    I've never read it before. I hope I never read it again. It made me feel wrong inside, like taking out your own appendix.
    Oh yes, the famous Sion Simon article.
    I haven't heard from him since his humiliation in Brum in 2017. Does anyone know what the old fool's doing these days?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.

    You deserve to be paid for that paragraph. (Not being sarcastic).
    It’s a PB in-joke.
    Copyright belongs I think to the Birmingham Mail...
    New Statesman I think:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase?amp
    What. The. Actual. Fuck. Was. That. Article????

    I've never read it before. I hope I never read it again. It made me feel wrong inside, like taking out your own appendix.
    You know, that article reminds me of some of the posters on here...
    It's almost as if @SeanT was writing it under a non de plume. Does Sion Simon actually exist? [Googles]. Good grief, he is real. Unghk.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Bojo fair clear he supports an indefinite transition until such time as "other measures" are available in Ni
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    edited July 2019
    Cyclefree said:

    Boris keeps going on about "uniting the country" but how on earth is he going to do that? A 'No Deal' Brexit certainly wouldn't do that.

    Uniting the country in loathing of him.
    Quite. The man is an ocean-going arsehole.
    A titanic arsehole
    A boaty mcboat face arse hole
    A belgrano

    Etc
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    nichomar said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Boris keeps going on about "uniting the country" but how on earth is he going to do that? A 'No Deal' Brexit certainly wouldn't do that.

    Uniting the country in loathing of him.
    Quite. The man is an ocean-going arsehole.
    A titanic arsehole
    Perhaps an ice berk?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.

    You deserve to be paid for that paragraph. (Not being sarcastic).
    It’s a PB in-joke.
    Copyright belongs I think to the Birmingham Mail...
    New Statesman I think:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase?amp
    What. The. Actual. Fuck. Was. That. Article????

    I've never read it before. I hope I never read it again. It made me feel wrong inside, like taking out your own appendix.
    You know, that article reminds me of some of the posters on here...
    I always thought it was rather SeanT esque in its own way
    I always reflect, when I’ve written an article that in retrospect I’m not proud of, that I’ve never plumbed that depth.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    Scott_P said:
    only if he can command the confidence of the house. and if he can it will be on the proviso of a GE immediately
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Would it be cynical and/or unkind of me to wonder whether Gavin Williamson had anything to do with the leak of Sir Kim Darroch’s diplomatic billets doux?

    Given he wasn't a minister at the time of one of the emails, it would be pretty remarkable if it was him.
    Not really. Someone trawls the archive to get the mails. An ex- minister with good journalistic contacts and with a reputation for leaking is a good conduit or source of advice as to how one might go around getting such stuff into the hands of a journalist.

    He has reason to get his revenge on the civil service and Mrs May. He has reason to help Boris. He is now, apparently, in line for a plum position in government. If Boris is PM the chances of any action being taken against him are low. Boris gets deniability but gets the benefit of such a leak. The Brexiteers are delighted. Gavin gets his revenge.

    Not that implausible.
    Do you think the leak benefited Boris? I don't see how. It embarrassed him, brought the video of him saying similar back to the fore, put him under the spot and cross-examination regarding backing Darroch.

    Considering Boris's strategy to date was to play it smart and not rock the horses, that was more like lighting a stick of dynamite and chucking it at the horses to see how they run. Made no sense whatsoever with his strategy.
    Yes, I do think it benefited Boris. He knew he was highly likely to win. And it opens up a plum position for someone more to the liking of the Brexiteers/pro-US gang. The fuss about the emails and his answer is a three-day wonder. The long-term benefits of having his man in Washington are more long-lasting.

    That doesn't mean he was behind it or knew about it. But it may have been the calculation of whoever did do it or encouraged it.
    Except wasn't Darroch already scheduled to retire this year anyway? Which makes this idea a bit moot? Why cause such trouble only to bring forward by a few months that which is already happening anyway?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    Bojo fair clear he supports an indefinite transition until such time as "other measures" are available in Ni

    Do these 'other measures' involve the wearing of balaclavas?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Scott_P said:
    He was standing for Prime Minister a month ago. It’s depressing that someone aspiring to that position can be so ill-informed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Bojo fair clear he supports an indefinite transition until such time as "other measures" are available in Ni

    Do these 'other measures' involve the wearing of balaclavas?
    If it does, there's a hole in his plan.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Would it be cynical and/or unkind of me to wonder whether Gavin Williamson had anything to do with the leak of Sir Kim Darroch’s diplomatic billets doux?

    Given he wasn't a minister at the time of one of the emails, it would be pretty remarkable if it was him.
    Not really. Someone trawls the archive to get the mails. An ex- minister with good journalistic contacts and with a reputation for leaking is a good conduit or source of advice as to how one might go around getting such stuff into the hands of a journalist.

    He has reason to get his revenge on the civil service and Mrs May. He has reason to help Boris. He is now, apparently, in line for a plum position in government. If Boris is PM the chances of any action being taken against him are low. Boris gets deniability but gets the benefit of such a leak. The Brexiteers are delighted. Gavin gets his revenge.

    Not that implausible.
    Do you think the leak benefited Boris? I don't see how. It embarrassed him, brought the video of him saying similar back to the fore, put him under the spot and cross-examination regarding backing Darroch.

    Considering Boris's strategy to date was to play it smart and not rock the horses, that was more like lighting a stick of dynamite and chucking it at the horses to see how they run. Made no sense whatsoever with his strategy.
    Yes, I do think it benefited Boris. He knew he was highly likely to win. And it opens up a plum position for someone more to the liking of the Brexiteers/pro-US gang. The fuss about the emails and his answer is a three-day wonder. The long-term benefits of having his man in Washington are more long-lasting.

    That doesn't mean he was behind it or knew about it. But it may have been the calculation of whoever did do it or encouraged it.
    Except wasn't Darroch already scheduled to retire this year anyway? Which makes this idea a bit moot? Why cause such trouble only to bring forward by a few months that which is already happening anyway?
    Snap
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    rcs1000 said:

    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.

    You deserve to be paid for that paragraph. (Not being sarcastic).
    It’s a PB in-joke.
    Copyright belongs I think to the Birmingham Mail...
    New Statesman I think:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase?amp
    What. The. Actual. Fuck. Was. That. Article????

    I've never read it before. I hope I never read it again. It made me feel wrong inside, like taking out your own appendix.
    You know, that article reminds me of some of the posters on here...
    I always thought it was rather SeanT esque in its own way
    I always reflect, when I’ve written an article that in retrospect I’m not proud of, that I’ve never plumbed that depth.
    It is a strange, strange article. In retrospect, it just shows the complacency Blair was rightly so severe on coupled with the hubris of Thatcher in her last years, but not exactly married to the intellect of either of them.

    It is also rather tragic in retrospect to consider that of all those name checked in the article, not one had a long or satisfying political career after it, even though any of them would be an improvement on the rubbish currently on offer.
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    How about May as head of a government of national unity?

    Edit to add: I reckon Corbyn might go for that for the shit and giggles

    That would be entertaining, but I can't see any circumstances in which Labour agrees to support anyone other than Corbyn. Given that the other opposition parties would almost certainly also do so, at least on the temporary basis I mentioned, it might be possible if a handful of soon-to-be-ex-Tory MPs decide that a no-deal crash-out is so completely unacceptable that they have no choice.
    Anyone who thinks Corbyn in Downing Street is better than any variety of Brexit is insane.
    I think the most likely outcome of No Deal is a Corbyn government.
    I doubt it. Brexit will have been delivered, the schism with the right will be closed, while Corbyn unless he commits to Rejoin will be outflanked by the Lib Dems with the Europhiles.

    If the Lib Dems capture the Europhile zeitgeist and with the Tories capturing the Brexiteers, I can foresee Labour coming third at the next election.
    Not impossible. If you look at what has happened in Scotland it has to be a plausible scenario.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    Bojo fair clear he supports an indefinite transition until such time as "other measures" are available in Ni

    Well, I can see the EU going for that. But it's massively less Brexit than the previous Withdrawal Agreement, so why would Francois and Baker go for it?

    (I can see why the DUP might.)
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    AndyJS said:

    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.

    You deserve to be paid for that paragraph. (Not being sarcastic).
    It’s a PB in-joke.
    Copyright belongs I think to the Birmingham Mail...
    New Statesman I think:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase?amp
    How long ago does the glory days of El Gord seem in the Summer of 2007?

    Feels like a lifetime ago...
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    Scott_P said:
    The word "could" is doing some heavy lifting there. Since the only available majority in parliament is Con+DUP, either Boris would remain leader and call an election, or there'd be an interim PM from the Tory side who would call an election. Even if some Tories resigned the whip, the idea that they'd support Corbyn is laughable.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    When asks about an election, Boris ducks the opportunity to say he will win it and still insists we don't need one
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lambs to the slaughter for the death cult Leavers.

    If you are a meat eater by definition most lambs will be raised for your consumption, if you are a vegetarian they will not be and indeed most would probably never be raised at all if all followed your lead, whether a Lamb is slaughtered in the UK post No Deal Brexit or slaughtered in the UK and eaten in France or Germany or sent outside the EU to New Zealand or the US to be eaten the lamb is still facing the same fate regardless
    Ah, the Marie Antoinette approach: let them eat lamb.

    I suspect the sheep pyres would be a more doleful sight on television.
    As I said earlier, Boris will spin it as a Brexit hecatomb.

    ‘A necessary sacrifice...’
    I’m just glad I’ve got plenty of mint in the garden.
    I've heard it runs absolubtely riot if planted into soil outwith a pot !
    Never ever plant mint directly into the ground. It's an absolute thug of a plant and will take over. Always in a pot.
    I once planted mint in an old wooden drawer outside, but the roots escaped and it made its way into the soil. Madly impressive.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    ydoethur said:

    AndyJS said:

    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.

    You deserve to be paid for that paragraph. (Not being sarcastic).
    It’s a PB in-joke.
    Copyright belongs I think to the Birmingham Mail...
    New Statesman I think:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase?amp
    What. The. Actual. Fuck. Was. That. Article????

    I've never read it before. I hope I never read it again. It made me feel wrong inside, like taking out your own appendix.
    Oh yes, the famous Sion Simon article.
    I haven't heard from him since his humiliation in Brum in 2017. Does anyone know what the old fool's doing these days?
    He was on Labour's WM list at the EU elections.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    How about May as head of a government of national unity?

    Edit to add: I reckon Corbyn might go for that for the shit and giggles

    That would be entertaining, but I can't see any circumstances in which Labour agrees to support anyone other than Corbyn. Given that the other opposition parties would almost certainly also do so, at least on the temporary basis I mentioned, it might be possible if a handful of soon-to-be-ex-Tory MPs decide that a no-deal crash-out is so completely unacceptable that they have no choice.
    Anyone who thinks Corbyn in Downing Street is better than any variety of Brexit is insane.
    I think the most likely outcome of No Deal is a Corbyn government.
    I doubt it. Brexit will have been delivered, the schism with the right will be closed, while Corbyn unless he commits to Rejoin will be outflanked by the Lib Dems with the Europhiles.

    If the Lib Dems capture the Europhile zeitgeist and with the Tories capturing the Brexiteers, I can foresee Labour coming third at the next election.
    Not impossible. If you look at what has happened in Scotland it has to be a plausible scenario.
    The great advantage the Tories have in a no deal Brexit is that people will be reluctant to blame themselves for voting for it and by extension the government for delivering it. They will continue to seek out excuses, however implausible, to cover their error. And an exit also kills the Brexit Party.

    Meanwhile, those of us who are not Leavers or at best hesitant about the whole thing will look for a party with a simple message. Labour doesn't have that. The Liberal Democrats do, and won't have a man who looks like a refugee from a home for the terminally stupid as leader. At the same time, Labour might well end up fielding multiple candidates in some constituencies as they are so badly split.

    That's not to say that there will be a paradigm shift. Inertia is the greatest force of all. But the conditions are there to make it possible.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Boris rules out a pact with the Brexit Party
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    rcs1000 said:

    Bojo fair clear he supports an indefinite transition until such time as "other measures" are available in Ni

    Well, I can see the EU going for that. But it's massively less Brexit than the previous Withdrawal Agreement, so why would Francois and Baker go for it?

    (I can see why the DUP might.)
    The only reason I can think of would be if they realised they'd made a mistake opposing the Withdrawal Agreement but, for reasons of pride they couldn't admit so. This enables them to declare victory over the backstop and move on.

    However, given that Johnson has promised them no deal at Halloween if they can stop any deal before then, I would expect them to oppose everything to push for that.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Dadge said:

    ydoethur said:

    AndyJS said:

    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.

    You deserve to be paid for that paragraph. (Not being sarcastic).
    It’s a PB in-joke.
    Copyright belongs I think to the Birmingham Mail...
    New Statesman I think:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase?amp
    What. The. Actual. Fuck. Was. That. Article????

    I've never read it before. I hope I never read it again. It made me feel wrong inside, like taking out your own appendix.
    Oh yes, the famous Sion Simon article.
    I haven't heard from him since his humiliation in Brum in 2017. Does anyone know what the old fool's doing these days?
    He was on Labour's WM list at the EU elections.
    So at the moment he's unemployed?
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    Dadge said:

    ydoethur said:

    AndyJS said:

    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.

    You deserve to be paid for that paragraph. (Not being sarcastic).
    It’s a PB in-joke.
    Copyright belongs I think to the Birmingham Mail...
    New Statesman I think:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase?amp
    What. The. Actual. Fuck. Was. That. Article????

    I've never read it before. I hope I never read it again. It made me feel wrong inside, like taking out your own appendix.
    Oh yes, the famous Sion Simon article.
    I haven't heard from him since his humiliation in Brum in 2017. Does anyone know what the old fool's doing these days?
    He was on Labour's WM list at the EU elections.
    and lost his seat.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780
    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.

    You deserve to be paid for that paragraph. (Not being sarcastic).
    It’s a PB in-joke.
    Copyright belongs I think to the Birmingham Mail...
    New Statesman I think:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase?amp
    How long ago does the glory days of El Gord seem in the Summer of 2007?

    Feels like a lifetime ago...
    Gordo was a horror-story in every conceivable way. Only Labour's left could find new ways to be even worse.

    It baffles me that the British public seem only to vote on the basis of 'whatever the Tories come up with' versus 'whatever Labour come up with', possibly with the slightest glance elsewhere.

    Voting Labour when Blair was PM and voting Labour now are completely different things. There should be almost no carry-over.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Boris pledges magic money raising tax cuts
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Scott_P said:
    Eh?

    Boriss point was that they could and should be able to sell them into the EU without ice pillows - Elf and Safety as he put it
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    geoffw said:
    I'll write that one down as a 'good start.'

    He is an utter lowlife. Along with Juncker, a walking argument for dissolving the whole EU.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lambs to the slaughter for the death cult Leavers.

    If you are a meat eater by definition most lambs will be raised for your consumption, if you are a vegetarian they will not be and indeed most would probably never be raised at all if all followed your lead, whether a Lamb is slaughtered in the UK post No Deal Brexit or slaughtered in the UK and eaten in France or Germany or sent outside the EU to New Zealand or the US to be eaten the lamb is still facing the same fate regardless
    Ah, the Marie Antoinette approach: let them eat lamb.

    I suspect the sheep pyres would be a more doleful sight on television.
    As I said earlier, Boris will spin it as a Brexit hecatomb.

    ‘A necessary sacrifice...’
    I’m just glad I’ve got plenty of mint in the garden.
    I've heard it runs absolubtely riot if planted into soil outwith a pot !
    Never ever plant mint directly into the ground. It's an absolute thug of a plant and will take over. Always in a pot.
    I once planted mint in an old wooden drawer outside, but the roots escaped and it made its way into the soil. Madly impressive.
    Eucalyptus does the same thing. Never ever plant it near foundations or drains.

    And daffodil bulbs and others will push up brick paving if the latter is not laid properly. Nature is a fearsome thing.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Would it be cynical and/or unkind of me to wonder whether Gavin Williamson had anything to do with the leak of Sir Kim Darroch’s diplomatic billets doux?

    Given he wasn't a minister at the time of one of the emails, it would be pretty remarkable if it was him.
    Not really. Someone trawls the archive to get the mails. An ex- minister with good journalistic contacts and with a reputation for leaking is a good conduit or source of advice as to how one might go around getting such stuff into the hands of a journalist.

    He has reason to get his revenge on the civil service and Mrs May. He has reason to help Boris. He is now, apparently, in line for a plum position in government. If Boris is PM the chances of any action being taken against him are low. Boris gets deniability but gets the benefit of such a leak. The Brexiteers are delighted. Gavin gets his revenge.

    Not that implausible.
    Do you think the leak benefited Boris? I don't see how. It embarrassed him, brought the video of him saying similar back to the fore, put him under the spot and cross-examination regarding backing Darroch.

    Considering Boris's strategy to date was to play it smart and not rock the horses, that was more like lighting a stick of dynamite and chucking it at the horses to see how they run. Made no sense whatsoever with his strategy.
    Yes, I do think it benefited Boris. He knew he was highly likely to win. And it opens up a plum position for someone more to the liking of the Brexiteers/pro-US gang. The fuss about the emails and his answer is a three-day wonder. The long-term benefits of having his man in Washington are more long-lasting.

    That doesn't mean he was behind it or knew about it. But it may have been the calculation of whoever did do it or encouraged it.
    Except wasn't Darroch already scheduled to retire this year anyway? Which makes this idea a bit moot? Why cause such trouble only to bring forward by a few months that which is already happening anyway?
    Snap
    If you want a quick win you don't want to wait 6 months to get your man in.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Hustings being Live Streamed here

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox20SJCMAHI
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Boris: Trump's language unacceptable, but I wouldn't use that word ('racist')
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 438
    Animal_pb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Animal_pb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Animal_pb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Zephyr said:

    eek said:

    eek said:
    Gove also said after we voted to Leave we’d hold all the aces.

    Gove is usually wrong on Brexit or has he started using again?
    Note - he doesn't say where Jenny's statement is wrong. It might be that it's not 9m but 17.4m
    Yes. The right thing for Michael to do is not go on a rude trump type attack, but explain the inaccuracy by explaining what the no deal plan is for sheep.
    I think he was attempting a pun.

    But as he is not very bright he bombed baaadly.
    No need to ram it down our throats.
    Ewe asked. I remain the tup punner.
    I know you enjoy the punning limelight, but there's no need to hogget all.
    That's a pig to respond to. Sow I shan't attempt to.
    If you're going to branch out into other farmyard animals, I shall have to cry technical fowl.
    Behave. There is a serious point here. With these rumours flying around there are a lot of worried sheep out there this evening. Gove knows what the no deal plan is for the sheep, what is the problem making public that part of the plan and putting the worried sheep to bed? It’s a darn smarter leadership than being rude to people misrepresenting the plan and not clarifying it. Come on Michael, you can stop all tonight’s sheep worrying.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Zephyr said:

    Animal_pb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Animal_pb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Animal_pb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Zephyr said:

    eek said:

    eek said:
    Gove also said after we voted to Leave we’d hold all the aces.

    Gove is usually wrong on Brexit or has he started using again?
    Note - he doesn't say where Jenny's statement is wrong. It might be that it's not 9m but 17.4m
    Yes. The right thing for Michael to do is not go on a rude trump type attack, but explain the inaccuracy by explaining what the no deal plan is for sheep.
    I think he was attempting a pun.

    But as he is not very bright he bombed baaadly.
    No need to ram it down our throats.
    Ewe asked. I remain the tup punner.
    I know you enjoy the punning limelight, but there's no need to hogget all.
    That's a pig to respond to. Sow I shan't attempt to.
    If you're going to branch out into other farmyard animals, I shall have to cry technical fowl.
    Behave. There is a serious point here. With these rumours flying around there are a lot of worried sheep out there this evening. Gove knows what the no deal plan is for the sheep, what is the problem making public that part of the plan and putting the worried sheep to bed? It’s a darn smarter leadership than being rude to people misrepresenting the plan and not clarifying it. Come on Michael, you can stop all tonight’s sheep worrying.
    We discussed this some time ago on PB. No deal brexit means the National herd gets it.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Zephyr said:

    Animal_pb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Animal_pb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Animal_pb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Zephyr said:

    eek said:

    eek said:
    Gove also said after we voted to Leave we’d hold all the aces.

    Gove is usually wrong on Brexit or has he started using again?
    Note - he doesn't say where Jenny's statement is wrong. It might be that it's not 9m but 17.4m
    Yes. The right thing for Michael to do is not go on a rude trump type attack, but explain the inaccuracy by explaining what the no deal plan is for sheep.
    I think he was attempting a pun.

    But as he is not very bright he bombed baaadly.
    No need to ram it down our throats.
    Ewe asked. I remain the tup punner.
    I know you enjoy the punning limelight, but there's no need to hogget all.
    That's a pig to respond to. Sow I shan't attempt to.
    If you're going to branch out into other farmyard animals, I shall have to cry technical fowl.
    Behave. There is a serious point here. With these rumours flying around there are a lot of worried sheep out there this evening. Gove knows what the no deal plan is for the sheep, what is the problem making public that part of the plan and putting the worried sheep to bed? It’s a darn smarter leadership than being rude to people misrepresenting the plan and not clarifying it. Come on Michael, you can stop all tonight’s sheep worrying.
    Good we can shoot a sheep worrier
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Zephyr said:

    Animal_pb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Animal_pb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Animal_pb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Zephyr said:

    eek said:

    eek said:
    Gove also said after we voted to Leave we’d hold all the aces.

    Gove is usually wrong on Brexit or has he started using again?
    Note - he doesn't say where Jenny's statement is wrong. It might be that it's not 9m but 17.4m
    Yes. The right thing for Michael to do is not go on a rude trump type attack, but explain the inaccuracy by explaining what the no deal plan is for sheep.
    I think he was attempting a pun.

    But as he is not very bright he bombed baaadly.
    No need to ram it down our throats.
    Ewe asked. I remain the tup punner.
    I know you enjoy the punning limelight, but there's no need to hogget all.
    That's a pig to respond to. Sow I shan't attempt to.
    If you're going to branch out into other farmyard animals, I shall have to cry technical fowl.
    Behave. There is a serious point here. With these rumours flying around there are a lot of worried sheep out there this evening. Gove knows what the no deal plan is for the sheep, what is the problem making public that part of the plan and putting the worried sheep to bed? It’s a darn smarter leadership than being rude to people misrepresenting the plan and not clarifying it. Come on Michael, you can stop all tonight’s sheep worrying.
    I'm disappointed you missed the chance to write 'dam smarter leadership...'
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    nichomar said:

    Zephyr said:

    Animal_pb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Animal_pb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Animal_pb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Zephyr said:

    eek said:

    eek said:
    Gove also said after we voted to Leave we’d hold all the aces.

    Gove is usually wrong on Brexit or has he started using again?
    Note - he doesn't say where Jenny's statement is wrong. It might be that it's not 9m but 17.4m
    Yes. The right thing for Michael to do is not go on a rude trump type attack, but explain the inaccuracy by explaining what the no deal plan is for sheep.
    I think he was attempting a pun.

    But as he is not very bright he bombed baaadly.
    No need to ram it down our throats.
    Ewe asked. I remain the tup punner.
    I know you enjoy the punning limelight, but there's no need to hogget all.
    That's a pig to respond to. Sow I shan't attempt to.
    If you're going to branch out into other farmyard animals, I shall have to cry technical fowl.
    Behave. There is a serious point here. With these rumours flying around there are a lot of worried sheep out there this evening. Gove knows what the no deal plan is for the sheep, what is the problem making public that part of the plan and putting the worried sheep to bed? It’s a darn smarter leadership than being rude to people misrepresenting the plan and not clarifying it. Come on Michael, you can stop all tonight’s sheep worrying.
    Good we can shoot a sheep worrier
    Such an action would dog you...
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Would it be cynical and/or unkind of me to wonder whether Gavin Williamson had anything to do with the leak of Sir Kim Darroch’s diplomatic billets doux?

    Given he wasn't a minister at the time of one of the emails, it would be pretty remarkable if it was him.
    Not really. Someone trawls the archive to get the mails. An ex- minister with good journalistic contacts and with a reputation for leaking is a good conduit or source of advice as to how one might go around getting such stuff into the hands of a journalist.

    He has reason to get his revenge on the civil service and Mrs May. He has reason to help Boris. He is now, apparently, in line for a plum position in government. If Boris is PM the chances of any action being taken against him are low. Boris gets deniability but gets the benefit of such a leak. The Brexiteers are delighted. Gavin gets his revenge.

    Not that implausible.
    Do you think the leak benefited Boris? I don't see how. It embarrassed him, brought the video of him saying similar back to the fore, put him under the spot and cross-examination regarding backing Darroch.

    Considering Boris's strategy to date was to play it smart and not rock the horses, that was more like lighting a stick of dynamite and chucking it at the horses to see how they run. Made no sense whatsoever with his strategy.
    Yes, I do think it benefited Boris. He knew he was highly likely to win. And it opens up a plum position for someone more to the liking of the Brexiteers/pro-US gang. The fuss about the emails and his answer is a three-day wonder. The long-term benefits of having his man in Washington are more long-lasting.

    That doesn't mean he was behind it or knew about it. But it may have been the calculation of whoever did do it or encouraged it.
    But the Ambassador was due to retire at the end of the year anyway, so Boris was always going to pick his successor.
    True. But if you're in a hurry - see the reports of Boris wanting a quick win with the US on trade - then not getting someone in place until January 2020 is a long time to wait.

    I can't see how a US trade deal would get through Parliament.

    No LibDem, SNP or Labour MP would back it because of "the NHS". And rural Coneservative MPs are going to hate it too.

    Or am I missing something?
    Won’t get through Westminster.

    Won’t get through US Senate.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/no-chance-of-us-deal-if-brexit-leads-to-hard-border-1.3835621?mode=amp
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    ydoethur said:

    Zephyr said:

    Animal_pb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Animal_pb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Animal_pb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Zephyr said:

    eek said:

    eek said:
    Gove also said after we voted to Leave we’d hold all the aces.

    Gove is usually wrong on Brexit or has he started using again?
    Note - he doesn't say where Jenny's statement is wrong. It might be that it's not 9m but 17.4m
    Yes. The right thing for Michael to do is not go on a rude trump type attack, but explain the inaccuracy by explaining what the no deal plan is for sheep.
    I think he was attempting a pun.

    But as he is not very bright he bombed baaadly.
    No need to ram it down our throats.
    Ewe asked. I remain the tup punner.
    I know you enjoy the punning limelight, but there's no need to hogget all.
    That's a pig to respond to. Sow I shan't attempt to.
    If you're going to branch out into other farmyard animals, I shall have to cry technical fowl.
    Behave. There is a serious point here. With these rumours flying around there are a lot of worried sheep out there this evening. Gove knows what the no deal plan is for the sheep, what is the problem making public that part of the plan and putting the worried sheep to bed? It’s a darn smarter leadership than being rude to people misrepresenting the plan and not clarifying it. Come on Michael, you can stop all tonight’s sheep worrying.
    I'm disappointed you missed the chance to write 'dam smarter leadership...'
    Still hogging the pun stream, I see.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Boris: Trump's language unacceptable, but I wouldn't use that word ('racist')

    ‘Cos it’s too close to home ?

    Of course it was effing racist.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    Omnium said:

    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Well, I'm finally here at the London hustings.

    It's a strange feeling.

    It’s in the nature of collective hysteria that no single act can be adduced to prove its existence. But there is a fin de siecle, self-destructive, decadent craziness about this race. Somewhere in the wads of twenty somethings and thirtywouldbes jamming the chintzy Bournemouth bars long after they’re normally silent lurks the jitterbugging desperation of the Twenties before the Crash, Berlin between the wars, London as Imperial Glory died with its queen. The collective psyche of this group of individuals who’ve never had it so good has rarely been so uncertain.

    You deserve to be paid for that paragraph. (Not being sarcastic).
    It’s a PB in-joke.
    Copyright belongs I think to the Birmingham Mail...
    New Statesman I think:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase?amp
    How long ago does the glory days of El Gord seem in the Summer of 2007?

    Feels like a lifetime ago...
    Gordo was a horror-story in every conceivable way. Only Labour's left could find new ways to be even worse.

    It baffles me that the British public seem only to vote on the basis of 'whatever the Tories come up with' versus 'whatever Labour come up with', possibly with the slightest glance elsewhere.

    Voting Labour when Blair was PM and voting Labour now are completely different things. There should be almost no carry-over.
    People vote for least worst...
This discussion has been closed.