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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Omnium said:


    So. Dirty tricks. I Goven't got a clue who might be doing such things.

    LOL.

    Gove over, you are taking the Michael with that remark.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Omnium said:

    Someone on BF believes the neighbour story will scupper Boris.

    Notable that the action is all on next Tory leader, and nothing on next PM. That very strongly suggests to me that this is actually someone trying to make the market move. (Boris is hardly likely to be next PM without him being Tory leader)

    So. Dirty tricks. I Goven't got a clue who might be doing such things.

    Gove 95 to lay. I thought if Boris dropped out, Hunt won?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:
    All a row over Boris spilling wine on the sofa as I already pointed out before, no action taken, no complaint by either party, neighbour likely a Remainer
    Do your mind reading abilities know no bounds ?
    Not mind reading abilities the facts as set out in the article
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited June 2019
    The great thing about any dirt on Boris that emerges from now on, is even if it is aboslutely true it will rejected as a smear because clearly it comes from those desperate to stop him being leader, and therefore even if true it won't matter. The Tory Corbyn.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    There was recently a young solicitor, Emily Scott, who was struck off for committing fraud on customers in her first job, at the behest of her bosses. There were quite a few mitigating circumstances but the SRA, rightly, took the view that a solicitor should be held to a high standard of integrity and fraud was not compatible with it. (You can read about the case here - https://barry-walsh.co.uk/2019/04/).

    I commented then -

    "But the moral – however harsh it may seem – is that, ultimately, a professional – or someone aspiring to be one – is responsible for their own actions, that they need to do the right thing even if this prejudices their personal position and that acting dishonestly but saying to yourself “I’m not a dishonest person” may be comforting but is still a dangerous self-deception. It is our actions that make us what we are."

    And now we have Hunt saying that Davies is an honest man. Well, no, not really: not if he was fiddling his expenses.

    I know I sound ludicrously old-fashioned. But is it too much to expect MPs to have some semblance of integrity, to understand that fraud - even if it is for a small amount - is wrong and not something to be shrugged off or excused or waved away? They talk about trust over Brexit but don't seem to realise that trust can be eroded by just these sorts of evasions and lies and dishonesties carried out by people who make the laws for the rest of us, who are paid to exercise their judgment, who are well paid and who have not the same excuses as others might for chiselling cheating conduct.

    Many of our MPs seem to be quite thick. Must they also be dishonest as well?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    isam said:

    Omnium said:

    Someone on BF believes the neighbour story will scupper Boris.

    Notable that the action is all on next Tory leader, and nothing on next PM. That very strongly suggests to me that this is actually someone trying to make the market move. (Boris is hardly likely to be next PM without him being Tory leader)

    So. Dirty tricks. I Goven't got a clue who might be doing such things.

    Gove 95 to lay. I thought if Boris dropped out, Hunt won?
    I recall a few weeks back someone on here suggested the mistake last time was cancelling the members stage when Leadsom pulled out, rather than bumping up the third placed person and doing a ballot then. Someone assuming if Boris dropped out they'd restart the process with Gove and Hunt?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Cyclefree said:

    There was recently a young solicitor, Emily Scott, who was struck off for committing fraud on customers in her first job, at the behest of her bosses. There were quite a few mitigating circumstances but the SRA, rightly, took the view that a solicitor should be held to a high standard of integrity and fraud was not compatible with it. (You can read about the case here - https://barry-walsh.co.uk/2019/04/).

    I commented then -

    "But the moral – however harsh it may seem – is that, ultimately, a professional – or someone aspiring to be one – is responsible for their own actions, that they need to do the right thing even if this prejudices their personal position and that acting dishonestly but saying to yourself “I’m not a dishonest person” may be comforting but is still a dangerous self-deception. It is our actions that make us what we are."

    And now we have Hunt saying that Davies is an honest man. Well, no, not really: not if he was fiddling his expenses.

    I know I sound ludicrously old-fashioned. But is it too much to expect MPs to have some semblance of integrity, to understand that fraud - even if it is for a small amount - is wrong and not something to be shrugged off or excused or waved away? They talk about trust over Brexit but don't seem to realise that trust can be eroded by just these sorts of evasions and lies and dishonesties carried out by people who make the laws for the rest of us, who are paid to exercise their judgment, who are well paid and who have not the same excuses as others might for chiselling cheating conduct.

    Many of our MPs seem to be quite thick. Must they also be dishonest as well?

    He was an honest man, if you ignore the dishonest stuff. It's like how Boris, Corbyn and Trump are great and honourable mem, if you ignore any of their flaws.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited June 2019
    kle4 said:

    isam said:

    Omnium said:

    Someone on BF believes the neighbour story will scupper Boris.

    Notable that the action is all on next Tory leader, and nothing on next PM. That very strongly suggests to me that this is actually someone trying to make the market move. (Boris is hardly likely to be next PM without him being Tory leader)

    So. Dirty tricks. I Goven't got a clue who might be doing such things.

    Gove 95 to lay. I thought if Boris dropped out, Hunt won?
    I recall a few weeks back someone on here suggested the mistake last time was cancelling the members stage when Leadsom pulled out, rather than bumping up the third placed person and doing a ballot then. Someone assuming if Boris dropped out they'd restart the process with Gove and Hunt?
    Seems so. I asked the Q earlier and was told Hunt would win a la May/Leadsom

    Gove 70 now
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    kle4 said:

    The great thing about any dirt on Biros that emerges from now on, is even if it is aboslutely true it will rejected as a smear because clearly it comes from those desperate to stop him being leader, and therefore even if true it won't matter. The Tory Corbyn.

    Yes it’s all false news from the despicable MSM which is now giving rather dubious politicians an opportunity to hide behind the claim that’s it all false news.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    I find it interesting that Boris was drinking red wine on his own!

    Maybe there is more similarity between Johnson and Churchill than I initially thought!

    The row is nothing but it shows he is not even tempered outside the public gaze and might have implications for his decision making qualities. Hunt in contrast seems like an ice king in comparison!

    This reminds me of when Gordon Brown was said to have shoved a secretary out of his way to get on a computer. It did little harm to Brown and some even thought it was funny, I remember a Japanese media outlet did a cartoon version of it!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited June 2019

    I find it interesting that Boris was drinking red wine on his own!

    Maybe there is more similarity between Johnson and Churchill than I initially thought!

    The row is nothing but it shows he is not even tempered outside the public gaze and might have implications for his decision making qualities. Hunt in contrast seems like an ice king in comparison!

    This reminds me of when Gordon Brown was said to have shoved a secretary out of his way to get on a computer. It did little harm to Brown and some even thought it was funny, I remember a Japanese media outlet did a cartoon version of it!

    Who was doing the shouting if he was drinking alone? And he wasn't the one with the short temper, apparently.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    edited June 2019
    Two MPs disqualified in the 1920s stood again with the blessing of their party. William Preston in 1927 (Walsall), and John Jacob Astor in 1924 (Dover). Astor was unopposed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    Yougov shows little difference in support for Boris Johnson or Jeremy Hunt with middle class voters, a Boris led Tory Party gets 34% with ABC1s if we leave the EU in October and a Hunt led one gets 32% while if we have not left in October a Boris led Tory Party gets 20% with ABC1s and a Hunt led one gets 19%.

    The main difference between the two is Boris does better with working class voters. If we leave the EU in October a Boris led Tory Party gets 34% with C2DEs and a Hunt led Tories gets 27% and if we have not left the EU in October a Boris led Tory Party gets 19% with C2DEs and a Hunt led Tories gets 15%.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/06/21/delivering-brexit-will-do-more-boost-conservative-
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780

    I find it interesting that Boris was drinking red wine on his own!

    Maybe there is more similarity between Johnson and Churchill than I initially thought!

    The row is nothing but it shows he is not even tempered outside the public gaze and might have implications for his decision making qualities. Hunt in contrast seems like an ice king in comparison!

    This reminds me of when Gordon Brown was said to have shoved a secretary out of his way to get on a computer. It did little harm to Brown and some even thought it was funny, I remember a Japanese media outlet did a cartoon version of it!

    Churchill reputedly drank quite dilute whiskey almost from breakfast. Whenever I've tried such a thing I find I need to go to bed before lunch.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    Cyclefree said:

    There was recently a young solicitor, Emily Scott, who was struck off for committing fraud on customers in her first job, at the behest of her bosses. There were quite a few mitigating circumstances but the SRA, rightly, took the view that a solicitor should be held to a high standard of integrity and fraud was not compatible with it. (You can read about the case here - https://barry-walsh.co.uk/2019/04/).

    I commented then -

    "But the moral – however harsh it may seem – is that, ultimately, a professional – or someone aspiring to be one – is responsible for their own actions, that they need to do the right thing even if this prejudices their personal position and that acting dishonestly but saying to yourself “I’m not a dishonest person” may be comforting but is still a dangerous self-deception. It is our actions that make us what we are."

    And now we have Hunt saying that Davies is an honest man. Well, no, not really: not if he was fiddling his expenses.

    I know I sound ludicrously old-fashioned. But is it too much to expect MPs to have some semblance of integrity, to understand that fraud - even if it is for a small amount - is wrong and not something to be shrugged off or excused or waved away? They talk about trust over Brexit but don't seem to realise that trust can be eroded by just these sorts of evasions and lies and dishonesties carried out by people who make the laws for the rest of us, who are paid to exercise their judgment, who are well paid and who have not the same excuses as others might for chiselling cheating conduct....

    No, it is not.
    And it is extraordinary that those who identify as ‘conservatives’ should take the opposite view.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Omnium said:

    I find it interesting that Boris was drinking red wine on his own!

    Maybe there is more similarity between Johnson and Churchill than I initially thought!

    The row is nothing but it shows he is not even tempered outside the public gaze and might have implications for his decision making qualities. Hunt in contrast seems like an ice king in comparison!

    This reminds me of when Gordon Brown was said to have shoved a secretary out of his way to get on a computer. It did little harm to Brown and some even thought it was funny, I remember a Japanese media outlet did a cartoon version of it!

    Churchill reputedly drank quite dilute whiskey almost from breakfast. Whenever I've tried such a thing I find I need to go to bed before lunch.

    But did you get up again at six and start again?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Omnium said:

    I find it interesting that Boris was drinking red wine on his own!

    Maybe there is more similarity between Johnson and Churchill than I initially thought!

    The row is nothing but it shows he is not even tempered outside the public gaze and might have implications for his decision making qualities. Hunt in contrast seems like an ice king in comparison!

    This reminds me of when Gordon Brown was said to have shoved a secretary out of his way to get on a computer. It did little harm to Brown and some even thought it was funny, I remember a Japanese media outlet did a cartoon version of it!

    Churchill reputedly drank quite dilute whiskey almost from breakfast. Whenever I've tried such a thing I find I need to go to bed before lunch.

    But did you get up again at six and start again?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    Two MPs disqualified in the 1920s stood again with the blessing of their party.

    Evening Sunil - I haven't had chance to update you on my yellow pen antics last week:

    Reedham to Lowestoft
    Norwich to Sheringham
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780
    nichomar said:

    Omnium said:

    I find it interesting that Boris was drinking red wine on his own!

    Maybe there is more similarity between Johnson and Churchill than I initially thought!

    The row is nothing but it shows he is not even tempered outside the public gaze and might have implications for his decision making qualities. Hunt in contrast seems like an ice king in comparison!

    This reminds me of when Gordon Brown was said to have shoved a secretary out of his way to get on a computer. It did little harm to Brown and some even thought it was funny, I remember a Japanese media outlet did a cartoon version of it!

    Churchill reputedly drank quite dilute whiskey almost from breakfast. Whenever I've tried such a thing I find I need to go to bed before lunch.

    But did you get up again at six and start again?
    Not at all. Delilah had me entertained sufficiently to stay in bed all day.
    (PS Unfortunately this isn't actually true)
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    edited June 2019
    RobD said:

    I find it interesting that Boris was drinking red wine on his own!

    Maybe there is more similarity between Johnson and Churchill than I initially thought!

    The row is nothing but it shows he is not even tempered outside the public gaze and might have implications for his decision making qualities. Hunt in contrast seems like an ice king in comparison!

    This reminds me of when Gordon Brown was said to have shoved a secretary out of his way to get on a computer. It did little harm to Brown and some even thought it was funny, I remember a Japanese media outlet did a cartoon version of it!

    Who was doing the shouting if he was drinking alone? And he wasn't the one with the short temper, apparently.
    The Guardian quotes from the tape; Boris shouting "get off my fucking laptop!"
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884

    Two MPs disqualified in the 1920s stood again with the blessing of their party.

    Evening Sunil - I haven't had chance to update you on my yellow pen antics last week:

    Reedham to Lowestoft
    Norwich to Sheringham
    Getting further and further south!

    I did both in 2016. Still Scotland north of the Central Belt (plus Stranraer) left to do! Plus a few weekend only routes in England. And Crossrail still hasn't opened yet :(
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,709

    Two MPs disqualified in the 1920s stood again with the blessing of their party.

    Evening Sunil - I haven't had chance to update you on my yellow pen antics last week:

    Reedham to Lowestoft
    Norwich to Sheringham
    Getting further and further south!

    I did both in 2016. Still Scotland north of the Central Belt (plus Stranraer) left to do! Plus a few weekend only routes in England. And Crossrail still hasn't opened yet :(
    You're sadly going to be saying that last sentence for a long time ...
    (And I bet it'll be followed by: "And Crossrail still hasn't ,i>fully opened yet" for a long time after.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    RobD said:

    I find it interesting that Boris was drinking red wine on his own!

    Maybe there is more similarity between Johnson and Churchill than I initially thought!

    The row is nothing but it shows he is not even tempered outside the public gaze and might have implications for his decision making qualities. Hunt in contrast seems like an ice king in comparison!

    This reminds me of when Gordon Brown was said to have shoved a secretary out of his way to get on a computer. It did little harm to Brown and some even thought it was funny, I remember a Japanese media outlet did a cartoon version of it!

    Who was doing the shouting if he was drinking alone? And he wasn't the one with the short temper, apparently.
    The Guardian quotes from the tape; Boris shouting "get off my fucking laptop!"
    Carrie was 'screaming at Boris to get out of the house' and after Boris spilt red wine on the sofa said 'you have no care for anything because you are spoiled.'

    Sounds more like a 1970s sitcom than anything!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884

    Two MPs disqualified in the 1920s stood again with the blessing of their party.

    Evening Sunil - I haven't had chance to update you on my yellow pen antics last week:

    Reedham to Lowestoft
    Norwich to Sheringham
    Getting further and further south!

    I did both in 2016. Still Scotland north of the Central Belt (plus Stranraer) left to do! Plus a few weekend only routes in England. And Crossrail still hasn't opened yet :(
    You're sadly going to be saying that last sentence for a long time ...
    (And I bet it'll be followed by: "And Crossrail still hasn't ,i>fully opened yet" for a long time after.
    And the Northern Line extension!
    And the Overground to Barking Riverside!
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Omnium said:

    nichomar said:

    Omnium said:

    I find it interesting that Boris was drinking red wine on his own!

    Maybe there is more similarity between Johnson and Churchill than I initially thought!

    The row is nothing but it shows he is not even tempered outside the public gaze and might have implications for his decision making qualities. Hunt in contrast seems like an ice king in comparison!

    This reminds me of when Gordon Brown was said to have shoved a secretary out of his way to get on a computer. It did little harm to Brown and some even thought it was funny, I remember a Japanese media outlet did a cartoon version of it!

    Churchill reputedly drank quite dilute whiskey almost from breakfast. Whenever I've tried such a thing I find I need to go to bed before lunch.

    But did you get up again at six and start again?
    Not at all. Delilah had me entertained sufficiently to stay in bed all day.
    (PS Unfortunately this isn't actually true)
    I never start before five and give up by seven after my four a day.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Omnium said:

    I find it interesting that Boris was drinking red wine on his own!

    Maybe there is more similarity between Johnson and Churchill than I initially thought!

    The row is nothing but it shows he is not even tempered outside the public gaze and might have implications for his decision making qualities. Hunt in contrast seems like an ice king in comparison!

    This reminds me of when Gordon Brown was said to have shoved a secretary out of his way to get on a computer. It did little harm to Brown and some even thought it was funny, I remember a Japanese media outlet did a cartoon version of it!

    Churchill reputedly drank quite dilute whiskey almost from breakfast. Whenever I've tried such a thing I find I need to go to bed before lunch.

    Iirc, Churchill did have a nap in the middle of the day.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    Two MPs disqualified in the 1920s stood again with the blessing of their party.

    Evening Sunil - I haven't had chance to update you on my yellow pen antics last week:

    Reedham to Lowestoft
    Norwich to Sheringham
    Getting further and further south!

    I did both in 2016. Still Scotland north of the Central Belt (plus Stranraer) left to do! Plus a few weekend only routes in England. And Crossrail still hasn't opened yet :(
    I've done everything north of the Central Belt, including the curve avoiding Inverness station! And Stranraer - twice.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:
    All a row over Boris spilling wine on the sofa as I already pointed out before, no action taken, no complaint by either party, neighbour likely a Remainer
    Yes, nothing to see here. Kind of thing that occurred between Theresa and Philip all the time.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    I find it interesting that Boris was drinking red wine on his own!

    Maybe there is more similarity between Johnson and Churchill than I initially thought!

    The row is nothing but it shows he is not even tempered outside the public gaze and might have implications for his decision making qualities. Hunt in contrast seems like an ice king in comparison!

    This reminds me of when Gordon Brown was said to have shoved a secretary out of his way to get on a computer. It did little harm to Brown and some even thought it was funny, I remember a Japanese media outlet did a cartoon version of it!

    Who was doing the shouting if he was drinking alone? And he wasn't the one with the short temper, apparently.
    The Guardian quotes from the tape; Boris shouting "get off my fucking laptop!"
    Carrie was 'screaming at Boris to get out of the house' and after Boris spilt red wine on the sofa said 'you have no care for anything because you are spoiled.'

    Sounds more like a 1970s sitcom than anything!
    That it? His girlfriend shouted at him because he spilled red wine on her (I assume) sofa?

    ps. @The_Taxman - I think it was Taiwanese

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/7301768/Gordon-Browns-bullying-digitally-recreated-in-Taiwanese-news-footage.html
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    I find it interesting that Boris was drinking red wine on his own!

    Maybe there is more similarity between Johnson and Churchill than I initially thought!

    The row is nothing but it shows he is not even tempered outside the public gaze and might have implications for his decision making qualities. Hunt in contrast seems like an ice king in comparison!

    This reminds me of when Gordon Brown was said to have shoved a secretary out of his way to get on a computer. It did little harm to Brown and some even thought it was funny, I remember a Japanese media outlet did a cartoon version of it!

    Who was doing the shouting if he was drinking alone? And he wasn't the one with the short temper, apparently.
    The Guardian quotes from the tape; Boris shouting "get off my fucking laptop!"
    Carrie was 'screaming at Boris to get out of the house' and after Boris spilt red wine on the sofa said 'you have no care for anything because you are spoiled.'

    Sounds more like a 1970s sitcom than anything!
    Abigail's Party.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:
    All a row over Boris spilling wine on the sofa as I already pointed out before, no action taken, no complaint by either party, neighbour likely a Remainer
    Yes, nothing to see here. Kind of thing that occurred between Theresa and Philip all the time.
    Martha and George (Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf)
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Alistair said:
    r/thathappened
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    GIN1138 said:
    Maybe he thought Carrie was planning to attack Philip Hammond.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    edited June 2019
    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    I find it interesting that Boris was drinking red wine on his own!

    Maybe there is more similarity between Johnson and Churchill than I initially thought!

    The row is nothing but it shows he is not even tempered outside the public gaze and might have implications for his decision making qualities. Hunt in contrast seems like an ice king in comparison!

    This reminds me of when Gordon Brown was said to have shoved a secretary out of his way to get on a computer. It did little harm to Brown and some even thought it was funny, I remember a Japanese media outlet did a cartoon version of it!

    Who was doing the shouting if he was drinking alone? And he wasn't the one with the short temper, apparently.
    The Guardian quotes from the tape; Boris shouting "get off my fucking laptop!"
    Carrie was 'screaming at Boris to get out of the house' and after Boris spilt red wine on the sofa said 'you have no care for anything because you are spoiled.'

    Sounds more like a 1970s sitcom than anything!
    I think it amusing! I don't think it will hurt him with Tory members who are overwhelmingly male and getting on a bit. Now if recordings of perverted sex are realised to the media it might cause him harm should they exist but to be completely cynical how do we know this was not manufactured? Recording a neighbour and one that is an influential figure seems too coincidental to me given the leadership election!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    Dura_Ace said:

    GIN1138 said:
    Maybe he thought Carrie was planning to attack Philip Hammond.
    Hammond will be happy to be sacked as Chancellor, rather than have that pair as next door neighbours.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    viewcode said:

    Alistair said:
    r/thathappened
    I went to check and it's ALREADY been posted

    Double points if it was either of you though
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited June 2019
    Cyclefree said:



    And now we have Hunt saying that Davies is an honest man. Well, no, not really: not if he was fiddling his expenses.

    What Hunt said was "Whatever the rights and wrongs of his expenses claim, I have only ever known Chris Davies as a decent and honest man and a very diligent local MP. My thoughts with him and his family today".

    That is more nuanced. It sounds more like sympathy for a doomed colleague. It doesn't say he is honest -- it says I have only known him as honest. Quite a difference.

    It is possible to have some sympathy for Chris Huhne, brought down by a stupid, perjorious lie.

    And it is easy to find statements made by LibDem MPs akin to Hunt's at the time of Huhne's downfall.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:
    All a row over Boris spilling wine on the sofa as I already pointed out before, no action taken, no complaint by either party, neighbour likely a Remainer
    Yes, nothing to see here. Kind of thing that occurred between Theresa and Philip all the time.
    Martha and George (Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf)
    Isn't the essential point of WAOVW that they have grown together over the years and cannot realistically leave each other? Which, with the best will in the world, I find difficult to believe of Boris.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:
    All a row over Boris spilling wine on the sofa as I already pointed out before, no action taken, no complaint by either party, neighbour likely a Remainer
    Yes, nothing to see here. Kind of thing that occurred between Theresa and Philip all the time.
    Or Layla Moran and Richard.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    I find it interesting that Boris was drinking red wine on his own!

    Maybe there is more similarity between Johnson and Churchill than I initially thought!

    The row is nothing but it shows he is not even tempered outside the public gaze and might have implications for his decision making qualities. Hunt in contrast seems like an ice king in comparison!

    This reminds me of when Gordon Brown was said to have shoved a secretary out of his way to get on a computer. It did little harm to Brown and some even thought it was funny, I remember a Japanese media outlet did a cartoon version of it!

    Who was doing the shouting if he was drinking alone? And he wasn't the one with the short temper, apparently.
    The Guardian quotes from the tape; Boris shouting "get off my fucking laptop!"
    Carrie was 'screaming at Boris to get out of the house' and after Boris spilt red wine on the sofa said 'you have no care for anything because you are spoiled.'

    Sounds more like a 1970s sitcom than anything!
    Margo and Jerry Leadbetter (the Good Life)
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722
    viewcode said:

    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:
    All a row over Boris spilling wine on the sofa as I already pointed out before, no action taken, no complaint by either party, neighbour likely a Remainer
    Yes, nothing to see here. Kind of thing that occurred between Theresa and Philip all the time.
    Martha and George (Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf)
    Isn't the essential point of WAOVW that they have grown together over the years and cannot realistically leave each other? Which, with the best will in the world, I find difficult to believe of Boris.
    Believe in Boris, man!
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    I find it interesting that Boris was drinking red wine on his own!

    Maybe there is more similarity between Johnson and Churchill than I initially thought!

    The row is nothing but it shows he is not even tempered outside the public gaze and might have implications for his decision making qualities. Hunt in contrast seems like an ice king in comparison!

    This reminds me of when Gordon Brown was said to have shoved a secretary out of his way to get on a computer. It did little harm to Brown and some even thought it was funny, I remember a Japanese media outlet did a cartoon version of it!

    Who was doing the shouting if he was drinking alone? And he wasn't the one with the short temper, apparently.
    The Guardian quotes from the tape; Boris shouting "get off my fucking laptop!"
    Carrie was 'screaming at Boris to get out of the house' and after Boris spilt red wine on the sofa said 'you have no care for anything because you are spoiled.'

    Sounds more like a 1970s sitcom than anything!
    Margo and Jerry Leadbetter (the Good Life)
    Johnson didn’t understand that leave means leave
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    I find it interesting that Boris was drinking red wine on his own!

    Maybe there is more similarity between Johnson and Churchill than I initially thought!

    The row is nothing but it shows he is not even tempered outside the public gaze and might have implications for his decision making qualities. Hunt in contrast seems like an ice king in comparison!

    This reminds me of when Gordon Brown was said to have shoved a secretary out of his way to get on a computer. It did little harm to Brown and some even thought it was funny, I remember a Japanese media outlet did a cartoon version of it!

    Who was doing the shouting if he was drinking alone? And he wasn't the one with the short temper, apparently.
    The Guardian quotes from the tape; Boris shouting "get off my fucking laptop!"
    Carrie was 'screaming at Boris to get out of the house' and after Boris spilt red wine on the sofa said 'you have no care for anything because you are spoiled.'

    Sounds more like a 1970s sitcom than anything!
    That it? His girlfriend shouted at him because he spilled red wine on her (I assume) sofa?

    ps. @The_Taxman - I think it was Taiwanese

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/7301768/Gordon-Browns-bullying-digitally-recreated-in-Taiwanese-news-footage.html
    It did not work for me on the DT website but if anyone wants to look at Brown I have put a YouTube link! Enjoy

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-hWE1H4geQ
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    geoffw said:

    viewcode said:

    geoffw said:

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:
    All a row over Boris spilling wine on the sofa as I already pointed out before, no action taken, no complaint by either party, neighbour likely a Remainer
    Yes, nothing to see here. Kind of thing that occurred between Theresa and Philip all the time.
    Martha and George (Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf)
    Isn't the essential point of WAOVW that they have grown together over the years and cannot realistically leave each other? Which, with the best will in the world, I find difficult to believe of Boris.
    Believe in Boris, man!
    My belief in Boris is deep, sincere, and wide-ranging... :)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Dura_Ace said:

    GIN1138 said:
    Maybe he thought Carrie was planning to attack Philip Hammond.
    Hammond will be happy to be sacked as Chancellor, rather than have that pair as next door neighbours.
    One hopes the sound insulation between No’s 10 and 11 is rather better than that.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:



    And now we have Hunt saying that Davies is an honest man. Well, no, not really: not if he was fiddling his expenses.

    What Hunt said was "Whatever the rights and wrongs of his expenses claim, I have only ever known Chris Davies as a decent and honest man and a very diligent local MP. My thoughts with him and his family today".

    That is more nuanced. It sounds more like sympathy for a doomed colleague. It doesn't say he is honest -- it says I have only known him as honest. Quite a difference.

    It is possible to have some sympathy for Chris Hahne, brought down by a stupid, perjorious lie.

    And it is easy to find statements made by LibDem MPs akin to Hunt's at the time of Huhne's downfall.
    Nonetheless, Hunt now knows that Davies was not honest in relation to his expenses. And note that he talks about "whatever the rights and wrongs of his expenses claim" as if this was in doubt, as if it was not clear that he committed an offence. It sounds as if he is implying that he thinks that Davies didn't really do a bad thing at all. It's a bit weaselly and combined with the "I've only known him as honest" it all adds up to a general "well this wasn't really very bad, hardly a crime at all, in fact" sort of justification.

    It's not the size of the fraud which matters. It's the fact that Davies' instinct was to cheat and lie and at no point, if that was his first instinct, did he check himself or apparently think "No, I should not be doing this."

    So - sympathy aside - the question remains: why is it right for the Tory party to be represented by a man who, objectively, has behaved in a dishonest way? And what does that say about those who think this is OK?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780

    Cyclefree said:



    And now we have Hunt saying that Davies is an honest man. Well, no, not really: not if he was fiddling his expenses.

    What Hunt said was "Whatever the rights and wrongs of his expenses claim, I have only ever known Chris Davies as a decent and honest man and a very diligent local MP. My thoughts with him and his family today".

    That is more nuanced. It sounds more like sympathy for a doomed colleague. It doesn't say he is honest -- it says I have only known him as honest. Quite a difference.

    It is possible to have some sympathy for Chris Huhne, brought down by a stupid, perjorious lie.

    And it is easy to find statements made by LibDem MPs akin to Hunt's at the time of Huhne's downfall.
    I don't believe that you should stand for public office if you have black marks against your name. If there are issues that might come to light that are equivocal then you should clear them up or make them public before (or whilst) you run. Nobody should be asked to vote for you on a false pretext.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884

    HYUFD said:

    RobD said:

    I find it interesting that Boris was drinking red wine on his own!

    Maybe there is more similarity between Johnson and Churchill than I initially thought!

    The row is nothing but it shows he is not even tempered outside the public gaze and might have implications for his decision making qualities. Hunt in contrast seems like an ice king in comparison!

    This reminds me of when Gordon Brown was said to have shoved a secretary out of his way to get on a computer. It did little harm to Brown and some even thought it was funny, I remember a Japanese media outlet did a cartoon version of it!

    Who was doing the shouting if he was drinking alone? And he wasn't the one with the short temper, apparently.
    The Guardian quotes from the tape; Boris shouting "get off my fucking laptop!"
    Carrie was 'screaming at Boris to get out of the house' and after Boris spilt red wine on the sofa said 'you have no care for anything because you are spoiled.'

    Sounds more like a 1970s sitcom than anything!
    That it? His girlfriend shouted at him because he spilled red wine on her (I assume) sofa?

    ps. @The_Taxman - I think it was Taiwanese

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/7301768/Gordon-Browns-bullying-digitally-recreated-in-Taiwanese-news-footage.html
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-hWE1H4geQ
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited June 2019

    HYUFD said:

    Floater said:
    All a row over Boris spilling wine on the sofa as I already pointed out before, no action taken, no complaint by either party, neighbour likely a Remainer
    Yes, nothing to see here. Kind of thing that occurred between Theresa and Philip all the time.
    Or Layla Moran and Richard.

    You're right to compare the two cases. That pretty much cost Layla her chances of leading her party ...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Dura_Ace said:

    GIN1138 said:
    Maybe he thought Carrie was planning to attack Philip Hammond.
    Hammond will be happy to be sacked as Chancellor, rather than have that pair as next door neighbours.
    I don't think he will have much choice in the matter.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Rather than getting upset Carrie needed baking soda and white vinegar... And lots of it! :D
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780

    Dura_Ace said:

    GIN1138 said:
    Maybe he thought Carrie was planning to attack Philip Hammond.
    Hammond will be happy to be sacked as Chancellor, rather than have that pair as next door neighbours.
    Boris will keep him on in the short term. Why change a good team. Hammond, Javid, Hunt - all staying.

    Gove to the new Department of Deep Coal Mine Investigation.

    Truss, Stewart, McVey all benefitting.

  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    What a bizarre decision by the Tories to support Davies .

    Surely they’d have a better chance with a new candidate . Not a very good look . If you cheat your expenses working for a company you get fired . If you’re a Tory MP you get full backing and some guff about him being a decent honest man who just happened to fiddle his expenses .

    We’ve had alternative facts , alternative truth, now alternative honesty !
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    kinabalu said:

    OK, night all. It's Friday - I'm off to get 'cocked and loaded'.
    :wink:

    If you think that there's a risk of killing 150 people, please feel free to decock and unload.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:



    And now we have Hunt saying that Davies is an honest man. Well, no, not really: not if he was fiddling his expenses.

    What Hunt said was "Whatever the rights and wrongs of his expenses claim, I have only ever known Chris Davies as a decent and honest man and a very diligent local MP. My thoughts with him and his family today".

    That is more nuanced. It sounds more like sympathy for a doomed colleague. It doesn't say he is honest -- it says I have only known him as honest. Quite a difference.

    It is possible to have some sympathy for Chris Hahne, brought down by a stupid, perjorious lie.

    And it is easy to find statements made by LibDem MPs akin to Hunt's at the time of Huhne's downfall.
    Nonetheless, Hunt now knows that Davies was not honest in relation to his expenses. And note that he talks about "whatever the rights and wrongs of his expenses claim" as if this was in doubt, as if it was not clear that he committed an offence. It sounds as if he is implying that he thinks that Davies didn't really do a bad thing at all. It's a bit weaselly and combined with the "I've only known him as honest" it all adds up to a general "well this wasn't really very bad, hardly a crime at all, in fact" sort of justification.

    It's not the size of the fraud which matters. It's the fact that Davies' instinct was to cheat and lie and at no point, if that was his first instinct, did he check himself or apparently think "No, I should not be doing this."

    So - sympathy aside - the question remains: why is it right for the Tory party to be represented by a man who, objectively, has behaved in a dishonest way? And what does that say about those who think this is OK?
    Davies has been booted out.

    We do not know that the Tory party will stick with him, we only have Davies' word for it.

    IMO, the Tory party should choose another candidate. Certainly, if the Tory party want to hold the seat, then they must choose another candidate.

    That said, it is perfectly possible for Hunt to state that in his dealings with him, Davies has been honest. The final line "My thoughts with him and his family" gives a hint as to the personal catastrophe that has engulfed Davies.

    I personally did not like Chris Huhne, but I could certainly feel sorrow at the personal catastrophe that engulfed him.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    Omnium said:

    Cyclefree said:



    And now we have Hunt saying that Davies is an honest man. Well, no, not really: not if he was fiddling his expenses.

    What Hunt said was "Whatever the rights and wrongs of his expenses claim, I have only ever known Chris Davies as a decent and honest man and a very diligent local MP. My thoughts with him and his family today".

    That is more nuanced. It sounds more like sympathy for a doomed colleague. It doesn't say he is honest -- it says I have only known him as honest. Quite a difference.

    It is possible to have some sympathy for Chris Huhne, brought down by a stupid, perjorious lie.

    And it is easy to find statements made by LibDem MPs akin to Hunt's at the time of Huhne's downfall.
    I don't believe that you should stand for public office if you have black marks against your name. If there are issues that might come to light that are equivocal then you should clear them up or make them public before (or whilst) you run. Nobody should be asked to vote for you on a false pretext.

    The thing about politics is it attracts risk takers who don't think they will be caught out. That said the queue to be an MP is very long and a cull of fibbers would do no harm. How would you define a black mark against somebodies name though? Behaviour unless it is criminal is subjective to the norms people work with. What seems immoral to one person could just as easily be sharp practice by another person and not immoral....
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Boris out to 1.15

    All those who laid at 1.09 feeling good about themselves (I did not)
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,900
    Evening all :)

    A busy day for me and just a couple of observations (no more):

    1) I glanced at the Mark Field video at the Mansion House dinner. It looked like something out of the Handmaid's Tale with all the Gilead commanders meeting. I can imagine John McDonnell being comfortable in that environment oddly enough - as for Liz Truss, as Chancellor in a Johnson Government and assuming she makes it to the 2020 Mansion House speech, well, she might be the only woman in the room.

    2) As for B&R, I've already suggested the LDs cannot afford to be complacent. As for the recall petition, HYUFD seems to assume the 10,005 who signed it must be all non-Tories. I doubt it. While fully appreciating there are several orders of magnitude difference, the fact remains as far as the recall mechanism is concerned, Chris Davies is no different to Fiona Onasanya.

    The provisions under Section 1 of the Act equate a conviction of making fraudulent expense claims to a conviction for any offence with a custodial sentence of less than 12 months. That seems bizarre to me and an over-reaction to the events of 2009. What Onasanya did was infinitely worse than anything Davies did but in essence the recall provision makes no difference.

    I do think in this instance justifiable public concern was mixed with a tinge of over-reaction to create bad legislation and it needs to be revisited.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:



    And now we have Hunt saying that Davies is an honest man. Well, no, not really: not if he was fiddling his expenses.

    What Hunt said was "Whatever the rights and wrongs of his expenses claim, I have only ever known Chris Davies as a decent and honest man and a very diligent local MP. My thoughts with him and his family today".

    That is more nuanced. It sounds more like sympathy for a doomed colleague. It doesn't say he is honest -- it says I have only known him as honest. Quite a difference.

    It is possible to have some sympathy for Chris Hahne, brought down by a stupid, perjorious lie.

    And it is easy to find statements made by LibDem MPs akin to Hunt's at the time of Huhne's downfall.
    Nonetheless, Hunt now knows that Davies was not honest in relation to his expenses. And note that he talks about "whatever the rights and wrongs of his expenses claim" as if this was in doubt, as if it was not clear that he committed an offence. It sounds as if he is implying that he thinks that Davies didn't really do a bad thing at all. It's a bit weaselly and combined with the "I've only known him as honest" it all adds up to a general "well this wasn't really very bad, hardly a crime at all, in fact" sort of justification.

    It's not the size of the fraud which matters. It's the fact that Davies' instinct was to cheat and lie and at no point, if that was his first instinct, did he check himself or apparently think "No, I should not be doing this."

    So - sympathy aside - the question remains: why is it right for the Tory party to be represented by a man who, objectively, has behaved in a dishonest way? And what does that say about those who think this is OK?
    Davies has been booted out.

    We do not know that the Tory party will stick with him, we only have Davies' word for it.

    IMO, the Tory party should choose another candidate. Certainly, if the Tory party want to hold the seat, then they must choose another candidate.

    That said, it is perfectly possible for Hunt to state that in his dealings with him, Davies has been honest. The final line "My thoughts with him and his family" gives a hint as to the personal catastrophe that has engulfed Davies.

    I personally did not like Chris Huhne, but I could certainly feel sorrow at the personal catastrophe that engulfed him.
    Hunt's sympathy for the man and his family speak well of him on a personal level. But personal emotion should not cloud judgment about what the right thing to do here is. Like you I would have thought it wise to have a candidate who understands the importance of honesty and integrity.

    I did not have sympathy for Huhne. But that was mainly because my children knew his son so had another private perspective on the matter.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited June 2019
    If the protestors is correct that Mark Field said "This is what happens when people like you disturb our dinner" to her then that would make his statement that he was worried she might be armed a complete lie.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    nico67 said:

    What a bizarre decision by the Tories to support Davies .

    Surely they’d have a better chance with a new candidate . Not a very good look . If you cheat your expenses working for a company you get fired . If you’re a Tory MP you get full backing and some guff about him being a decent honest man who just happened to fiddle his expenses .

    We’ve had alternative facts , alternative truth, now alternative honesty !

    I suggested earlier that it might be a better bet for the Torres to make the election about the ‘trivial nature’ of the offense rather than the current political situation. They haven’t adopted him yet so we will have to see.
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    GIN1138 said:

    Rather than getting upset Carrie needed baking soda and white vinegar... And lots of it! :D

    What did BoJo expect after dumping or being dumped by Marina, brighter and better looking than Boris and a real leaver to boot.
  • crandlescrandles Posts: 91
    lay gove at 80? Is he launching some sort of challenge?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Alistair said:

    If the protestors is correct that Mark Field said "This is what happens when people like you disturb our dinner" to her then that would make his statement that he was worried she might be armed a complete lie.

    Not necessarily.

    Expert (I know - experts) on R4 said he’d have had the woman in an armlock.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780

    Omnium said:

    Cyclefree said:



    And now we have Hunt saying that Davies is an honest man. Well, no, not really: not if he was fiddling his expenses.

    What Hunt said was "Whatever the rights and wrongs of his expenses claim, I have only ever known Chris Davies as a decent and honest man and a very diligent local MP. My thoughts with him and his family today".

    That is more nuanced. It sounds more like sympathy for a doomed colleague. It doesn't say he is honest -- it says I have only known him as honest. Quite a difference.

    It is possible to have some sympathy for Chris Huhne, brought down by a stupid, perjorious lie.

    And it is easy to find statements made by LibDem MPs akin to Hunt's at the time of Huhne's downfall.
    I don't believe that you should stand for public office if you have black marks against your name. If there are issues that might come to light that are equivocal then you should clear them up or make them public before (or whilst) you run. Nobody should be asked to vote for you on a false pretext.

    The thing about politics is it attracts risk takers who don't think they will be caught out. That said the queue to be an MP is very long and a cull of fibbers would do no harm. How would you define a black mark against somebodies name though? Behaviour unless it is criminal is subjective to the norms people work with. What seems immoral to one person could just as easily be sharp practice by another person and not immoral....
    I'd define it as what you see as a black mark against you.

    Two things - the 'crime' and the perception of crime. If standing for poitcial office you need to explain both things. A mass-murderer might not be imprisoned, but he's going to have a tough time getting through the perception of him as a bad person.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Just put another tenner on Jezza (Hunt) because who knows what might be found when the Boris stone is lifted.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884

    Two MPs disqualified in the 1920s stood again with the blessing of their party.

    Evening Sunil - I haven't had chance to update you on my yellow pen antics last week:

    Reedham to Lowestoft
    Norwich to Sheringham
    Getting further and further south!

    I did both in 2016. Still Scotland north of the Central Belt (plus Stranraer) left to do! Plus a few weekend only routes in England. And Crossrail still hasn't opened yet :(
    I've done everything north of the Central Belt, including the curve avoiding Inverness station! And Stranraer - twice.
    I've done the curves avoiding Carmarthen and Swansea - plus the Swansea District completely by-passing the area.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    nico67 said:

    What a bizarre decision by the Tories to support Davies .

    Surely they’d have a better chance with a new candidate . Not a very good look . If you cheat your expenses working for a company you get fired . If you’re a Tory MP you get full backing and some guff about him being a decent honest man who just happened to fiddle his expenses .

    We’ve had alternative facts , alternative truth, now alternative honesty !

    Two MPs disqualified in the 1920s stood again at the ensuing by-elections with the blessing of their party. William Preston in 1927 (Walsall), and John Jacob Astor in 1924 (Dover). Astor was unopposed.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780
    crandles said:

    lay gove at 80? Is he launching some sort of challenge?

    Free money if BF could be relied upon to be straight.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Hunt can’t win unless Bozo actually pulled out of the leadership contest .

    At this point the membership would vote for him regardless of almost anything . His girlfriend could end up with a black eye and the death cult would still be singing his praises .

  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Cyclefree said:



    Hunt's sympathy for the man and his family speak well of him on a personal level. But personal emotion should not cloud judgment about what the right thing to do here is. Like you I would have thought it wise to have a candidate who understands the importance of honesty and integrity.

    I did not have sympathy for Huhne. But that was mainly because my children knew his son so had another private perspective on the matter.

    The saddest part of the Pryce trial was the texts between Huhne and his son. They should never, ever have been made public, never, ever have been published in the press.

    Those texts were for the eyes of Chris Huhne and his son alone.

    They are truly heart-breaking.

    If you don't have sympathy for Huhne and his son after those terrible texts, well then ... you are harder-hearted than I am.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    Norm said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Rather than getting upset Carrie needed baking soda and white vinegar... And lots of it! :D

    What did BoJo expect after dumping or being dumped by Marina, brighter and better looking than Boris and a real leaver to boot.
    If Boris becomes PM, he is likely to be targeted by honeytraps IMO. He does not seem to be able to resist. I doubt he will be like JFK, where staffers go out looking for prostitutes he can do the business with but I think he is clearly a danger to himself when offered the chance of some skirt.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Wonder if the ERG should've gone for Raab after all... ;)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    nichomar said:

    nico67 said:

    What a bizarre decision by the Tories to support Davies .

    Surely they’d have a better chance with a new candidate . Not a very good look . If you cheat your expenses working for a company you get fired . If you’re a Tory MP you get full backing and some guff about him being a decent honest man who just happened to fiddle his expenses .

    We’ve had alternative facts , alternative truth, now alternative honesty !

    I suggested earlier that it might be a better bet for the Torres to make the election about the ‘trivial nature’ of the offense rather than the current political situation. They haven’t adopted him yet so we will have to see.
    Aaargh!!!! Fraud is never a trivial offence, no matter how little is defrauded. Never.

    You're going to get my rant on this, my specialist subject. Sorry.

    This is what I have written elsewhere, in relation to banking. It applies just as politics, to any sector, frankly. If the Tories don't get this, refuse to get this, they really are the pits.

    "Fraud is damaging because it is so corrosive of the trust that is the essence of banking, that is – or should be – at the heart of any working environment, at the heart of any good relationship with colleagues, bosses, clients, the public, at the heart of any well-functioning community. Fraud breaks those bonds of trust.

    When someone is trusted and they let you down by lying, by cheating, by taking advantage, by behaving like Adoboli did, like many other fraudsters have done, real people are hurt. Worse – the very idea of having confidence – in the institution, in your colleagues, in banking as a dependable underpinning of our society – is damaged and takes time to rebuild.

    A fraudster does not just destroy their own reputation. Their actions chip away at the reputation of everyone else in their sector. And they make it just that bit harder for those people – however good, however hard-working, however trustworthy – to be trusted by others, by the public.

    That is the real harm that fraud does. We would do well to take it more seriously than we do."
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:



    Hunt's sympathy for the man and his family speak well of him on a personal level. But personal emotion should not cloud judgment about what the right thing to do here is. Like you I would have thought it wise to have a candidate who understands the importance of honesty and integrity.

    I did not have sympathy for Huhne. But that was mainly because my children knew his son so had another private perspective on the matter.

    The saddest part of the Pryce trial was the texts between Huhne and his son. They should never, ever have been made public, never, ever have been published in the press.

    Those texts were for the eyes of Chris Huhne and his son alone.

    They are truly heart-breaking.

    If you don't have sympathy for Huhne and his son after those terrible texts, well then ... you are harder-hearted than I am.
    I had a great deal of sympathy for the son, as I have said. Those texts were made public because of the way Huhne allowed his case to be presented. Unforgivable. He was the grown up but did not behave like one.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Cyclefree said:

    nichomar said:

    nico67 said:

    What a bizarre decision by the Tories to support Davies .

    Surely they’d have a better chance with a new candidate . Not a very good look . If you cheat your expenses working for a company you get fired . If you’re a Tory MP you get full backing and some guff about him being a decent honest man who just happened to fiddle his expenses .

    We’ve had alternative facts , alternative truth, now alternative honesty !

    I suggested earlier that it might be a better bet for the Torres to make the election about the ‘trivial nature’ of the offense rather than the current political situation. They haven’t adopted him yet so we will have to see.
    Aaargh!!!! Fraud is never a trivial offence, no matter how little is defrauded. Never.

    You're going to get my rant on this, my specialist subject. Sorry.

    This is what I have written elsewhere, in relation to banking. It applies just as politics, to any sector, frankly. If the Tories don't get this, refuse to get this, they really are the pits.

    "Fraud is damaging because it is so corrosive of the trust that is the essence of banking, that is – or should be – at the heart of any working environment, at the heart of any good relationship with colleagues, bosses, clients, the public, at the heart of any well-functioning community. Fraud breaks those bonds of trust.

    When someone is trusted and they let you down by lying, by cheating, by taking advantage, by behaving like Adoboli did, like many other fraudsters have done, real people are hurt. Worse – the very idea of having confidence – in the institution, in your colleagues, in banking as a dependable underpinning of our society – is damaged and takes time to rebuild.

    A fraudster does not just destroy their own reputation. Their actions chip away at the reputation of everyone else in their sector. And they make it just that bit harder for those people – however good, however hard-working, however trustworthy – to be trusted by others, by the public.

    That is the real harm that fraud does. We would do well to take it more seriously than we do."
    If you followed the earlier posts you would see that I was in no was supporting his fraud. I put the trivial in quotes to imply it was not trivial but could be used as a better defense of the seat than trying to support the current conservative government.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Scott_P said:
    That is The Guardian though to be fair...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Dura_Ace said:

    GIN1138 said:
    Maybe he thought Carrie was planning to attack Philip Hammond.
    Hammond will be happy to be sacked as Chancellor, rather than have that pair as next door neighbours.
    I don't think he will have much choice in the matter.
    How he feels about it is entirely up to him.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    GIN1138 said:

    Rather than getting upset Carrie needed baking soda and white vinegar... And lots of it! :D

    I see you take the Bone view on cleaning responsibilities.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    nichomar said:

    Cyclefree said:

    nichomar said:

    nico67 said:



    We’ve had alternative facts , alternative truth, now alternative honesty !

    I suggested earlier that it might be a better bet for the Torres to make the election about the ‘trivial nature’ of the offense rather than the current political situation. They haven’t adopted him yet so we will have to see.
    Aaargh!!!! Fraud is never a trivial offence, no matter how little is defrauded. Never.

    You're going to get my rant on this, my specialist subject. Sorry.

    This is what I have written elsewhere, in relation to banking. It applies just as politics, to any sector, frankly. If the Tories don't get this, refuse to get this, they really are the pits.

    "Fraud is damaging because it is so corrosive of the trust that is the essence of banking, that is – or should be – at the heart of any working environment, at the heart of any good relationship with colleagues, bosses, clients, the public, at the heart of any well-functioning community. Fraud breaks those bonds of trust.

    When someone is trusted and they let you down by lying, by cheating, by taking advantage, by behaving like Adoboli did, like many other fraudsters have done, real people are hurt. Worse – the very idea of having confidence – in the institution, in your colleagues, in banking as a dependable underpinning of our society – is damaged and takes time to rebuild.

    A fraudster does not just destroy their own reputation. Their actions chip away at the reputation of everyone else in their sector. And they make it just that bit harder for those people – however good, however hard-working, however trustworthy – to be trusted by others, by the public.

    That is the real harm that fraud does. We would do well to take it more seriously than we do."
    If you followed the earlier posts you would see that I was in no was supporting his fraud. I put the trivial in quotes to imply it was not trivial but could be used as a better defense of the seat than trying to support the current conservative government.
    It's the Tories I'm disappointed at. Not you. It would be nice if people and organisations in public life at least tried to have some standards of integrity. I mean, couldn't they at least try?

    I mean, really: please elect this guy 'cos he's only a trivial fraudster and we'd rather not talk about anything else important. Is that what politics is now reduced to?

    Yes. Apparently.

    FFS!
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    edited June 2019
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:
    That is The Guardian though to be fair...
    It is top news in the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Daily Telegraph and The Sun. Basically the Brexit supporting media! The way it is presented as the female shouting "get off me" will not do Boris any good. Even if you apply the theory that any publicity is good I don't think something that could be interpreted as domestic violence/coercive control given recent legislation helps him!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Is this why BoZo bottled yet another TV debate?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    That's Boris out to 1.22
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Could have made a packet in the last 15 mins.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:
    That is The Guardian though to be fair...
    It is top news in the Daily Mail, Daily Express, Daily Telegraph and The Sun. Basically the Brexit supporting media! The way it is presented as the female shouting "get off me" will not do Boris any good. Even if you apply the theory that any publicity is good I don't think something that could be interpreted as domestic violence given recent legislation helps him!
    Well yes police being called to Boris Johnson's home after a midnight "fracas" with his partner is bound to be big news...

    We shall have to wait and see what he's got to say for himself...
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Andrea Leadsom back in to 819/1
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    Scott_P said:
    We’ve already seen here that some don’t.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Wonder if this is the first of several drip-drip stories. Alone it won't do much.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    Cyclefree said:

    nichomar said:

    nico67 said:

    What a bizarre decision by the Tories to support Davies .

    Surely they’d have a better chance with a new candidate . Not a very good look . If you cheat your expenses working for a company you get fired . If you’re a Tory MP you get full backing and some guff about him being a decent honest man who just happened to fiddle his expenses .

    We’ve had alternative facts , alternative truth, now alternative honesty !

    I suggested earlier that it might be a better bet for the Torres to make the election about the ‘trivial nature’ of the offense rather than the current political situation. They haven’t adopted him yet so we will have to see.
    Aaargh!!!! Fraud is never a trivial offence, no matter how little is defrauded. Never.

    You're going to get my rant on this, my specialist subject. Sorry.

    This is what I have written elsewhere, in relation to banking. It applies just as politics, to any sector, frankly. If the Tories don't get this, refuse to get this, they really are the pits.

    "Fraud is damaging because it is so corrosive of the trust that is the essence of banking, that is – or should be – at the heart of any working environment, at the heart of any good relationship with colleagues, bosses, clients, the public, at the heart of any well-functioning community. Fraud breaks those bonds of trust.

    When someone is trusted and they let you down by lying, by cheating, by taking advantage, by behaving like Adoboli did, like many other fraudsters have done, real people are hurt. Worse – the very idea of having confidence – in the institution, in your colleagues, in banking as a dependable underpinning of our society – is damaged and takes time to rebuild.

    A fraudster does not just destroy their own reputation. Their actions chip away at the reputation of everyone else in their sector. And they make it just that bit harder for those people – however good, however hard-working, however trustworthy – to be trusted by others, by the public.

    That is the real harm that fraud does. We would do well to take it more seriously than we do."
    And sometimes - MPs’ expenses, for instance - we take it very seriously indeed.

    It is remarkable how haphazardly we apply standards.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Nigelb said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Rather than getting upset Carrie needed baking soda and white vinegar... And lots of it! :D

    I see you take the Bone view on cleaning responsibilities.
    Oh no. If Boris spilled it he he should definitely be the one to clean it up...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    edited June 2019
    Alistair said:

    That's Boris out to 1.22

    Well it is just about conceivable that it is Boris out.
    (Which will necessitate a change of avatar, dammit.)

    I must start following our venerable host’s tips more often....

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    Scott_P said:
    I thought they were going "head to head" on ITV?
This discussion has been closed.