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  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Scott_P said:
    Jeremy Hunt hasn't sprung her yet either. Now there is a deal to be done!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Latest numbers:

    Boris 86
    Hunt 36
    Gove 35
    Javid 19
    Hancock 16
    Harper 8, Stewart 7, McVey 6, Leadsom 5
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    Johnson losing Uxbridge is not going to happen. It's a Leave area and there is no third party vote for Labour to squeeze, They maxed out in 2017 and Johnson still won comfortably. The one to watch is IDS. There was a very small Remain majority in Chingford and Woodford Green, there is still an LD and Green vote for Labour to tap into and the Tory vote has been in decline there since 2010. I suspect that Johnson as PM will finally cost the Quiet Man his seat.

    This is a loose comment.

    Whilst it's true that those of us who have seen through the magician's sleight of hand need to check our subjective wishes, your remark is loose.

    There's no rationale or evidence that Labour have 'maxed out.' There's no such thing. And the assumption that because Uxbridge voted Leave it means all those voters will vote for Boris is a long way further than 'loose.'

    Much will of course depend on the national picture. If PM Boris is as awful as Foreign Secretary Boris then the honeymoon will be short-lived. Like Mike Smithson and many others on here, I think Boris is fatally flawed with a deeply defective personality and he will sooner or later come a cropper. We shall see if he drags the country down with him.

    The net Cons to Labour swing in Uxbridge from 2015 to 2017 exceeded national and London averages at 13%. A repeat next time puts him in a parlous state, even without the ongoing demographic changes and Brexit shambles.

    What is incontrovertible is that Boris attracts a great deal of hatred. My tory voting brother who lives in London has not a single kind word to say for Boris. So alongside the incumbency pull you mention, he will also attract the opposite. I have LibDem friends who say they will vote Labour to decapitate him. I'm not sure why you suggest decapitation doesn't work when it clearly does: Chris Patten, Nick Clegg come to mind as most prominent but there are many other examples.

    The other reason, though, for suggesting your post is loose is the Brexit Party. If they put up a half-decent candidate, perhaps even Farage himself, I can see Boris having a big problem.

    I think Boris will lose Uxbridge.
    On current polling Boris will won an overall majority and hold Uxbridge easily.

    Boris only loses Uxbridge if Corbyn wins an overall majority, in which case I doubt whether he cares if he holds Uxbridge anyway
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    isam said:

    isam said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I'd like to see a thread header from @isam on the virtues of Brexit. :D

    Oh and happy First Round Thursday PB :)

    Happy to oblige!

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com/2014/08/mass-immigration-stealth-tax-on-working.html
    Ah those terrible immigrants eh? I won't mention fascism and divisive politics of the extreme right, but it is important to mention Brexit will only affect immigration if it turns us, as seems likely, into an economic basketcase where no one wants to come anymore as there are no prospects. Even I don't believe it will be that bad. Anyway, EU immigration only made for 50% of the immigration. The rest we had/have full control of. First argument in favour of Brexit completely shot down. Still waiting for a defensible argument in favour of the madness.
    If your conclusion from reading that is I think immigrants are terrible, then you are beyond repair
    Given that he's a longstanding Conservative member Nigel Foremain is presumably a supporter of reducing net immigration to below 100,000 per year.
    Conservative policy is surely to increase immigration while blaming those beastly Europeans (and sometimes Tony Blair). Non-EU immigration (so nothing to do with Brussels or FOM) rose under Cameron and May.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    AndyJS said:

    Latest numbers:

    Boris 86
    Hunt 36
    Gove 35
    Javid 19
    Hancock 16
    Harper 8, Stewart 7, McVey 6, Leadsom 5

    Not much of a race, is it?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    If you have to tack towards you’re rivals policies to avoid wipe out leaving behind your principles and a large slice of your traditional support is it really worth it?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,624

    DavidL said:

    Why do I still want Brexit?

    Because I do not like the European project. I do not like more and more of our decisions being taken in an undemocratic structure by people we have no right to remove. I want my politicians to be accountable, to decide how we spend our own money, what our own priorities are. I do not approve of the gradual downgrading of the nation state. I see that as the objective of the project and the Euro as the main means of achieving this. Once national politicians are accountable for how much money is spent and what it is spent on they really are local government. I see the EZ being increasingly dominant inside the EU and pressure to join it over time. I think policy will evolve to favour the EZ bloc with its QMV to our detriment. I get it that some like our own Mr Glenn see these as a desirable end state, I don't.

    For me May's deal was and is a possible solution to this. Other solutions may exist but that is the one we have and time is pressing. A trade agreement built on the bones of that WA is likely to meet my objectives, modest as they are. As I have said on here before our relationship with the EU will always continue to evolve as it has throughout our membership. None of these choices are forever, not even leaving if the British people chose to go back in years to come. But right now we chose to leave and our political class should honour that choice.

    As someone who was a reluctant remainer I agree with a fair bit of that. If that was the Brexit narrative being pursued it would have been delivered. Instead Brexiteers have outdone each other to prove they are the purest and hardest and we are left with the political class pandering to the lunacies of Francois, Rees-Mogg and McVey.

    All Brexiteers had to do was nudge very slightly to welcome plenty of reluctant remainers across into the fold. Instead we have been told we are citizens of nowhere and have had to listen to nonsense about trade from people who have no idea on the subject for the last 3 years. Brexit has just become a way for people to express their anger about the EU, lack of control and foreigners rather than a plan with a destination.
    Few Conservative MPs seem to have given much thought as to what Brexit would amount to until the last six months.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    OT

    Breaking

    Sky confirm that the US navy are assisting tankers in the Gulf of Oman as crews evacuate after attacks that are rumoured to be by torpedos. Sky saying not confirmed but if so massive crisis looms as the finger is being pointed at Iran.

    Oil rising and real fears for world trade

    :open_mouth: I’m in Oman today!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    AndyJS said:

    Latest numbers:

    Boris 86
    Hunt 36
    Gove 35
    Javid 19
    Hancock 16
    Harper 8, Stewart 7, McVey 6, Leadsom 5

    Raab?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2019
    How can Leadsom be 9 and Gove 30? Mind-boggling.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.125574963
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    I don't normally think 40/1 candidates are value lays, but why is Tulsi Gabbard persistently below 50 on Betfair for the Dem nomination? She's doing virtually nothing right, has no obvious constituency of voters, and the last 5 national polls are mostly 0%s!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    Latest numbers:

    Boris 86
    Hunt 36
    Gove 35
    Javid 19
    Hancock 16
    Harper 8, Stewart 7, McVey 6, Leadsom 5

    Raab?
    Raab 23, sorry.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    AndyJS said:

    How can Leadsom be 9 and Gove 30? Mind-boggling.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.125574963

    Leadsom is clearly being manipulated by someone for their own ends, but I agree Gove shouldn't be this much longer than Hunt. Longer, sure. But three times? Nah. I'd make him maybe 15 if Hunt is 8-10.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    AndyJS said:

    HYUFD said:

    AndyJS said:

    Latest numbers:

    Boris 86
    Hunt 36
    Gove 35
    Javid 19
    Hancock 16
    Harper 8, Stewart 7, McVey 6, Leadsom 5

    Raab?
    Raab 23, sorry.
    Thanks, so should be Boris first and Hunt or Gove second unless some dramatic surge from undecideds to one candidate
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    HYUFD said:

    If the Tories do not commit to deliver Brexit they will be overtaken by the Brexit Party as the main party of the right it is as simple as that. No Deal Brexit would create difficulties and is certainly not as ideal a scenario as Brexit with a Deal but it would not produce the existential crisis for the Tories of failing to deliver Brexit at all

    Probably we will leave on something like Theresa May's terms but tweaked so everyone can save face. A far longer transition period before the dreaded backstop, perhaps to allow technological solutions, and removal of May's red lines round FOM. It gives all three sides cover.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    HYUFD said:

    If the Tories do not commit to deliver Brexit they will be overtaken by the Brexit Party as the main party of the right it is as simple as that. No Deal Brexit would create difficulties and is certainly not as ideal a scenario as Brexit with a Deal but it would not produce the existential crisis for the Tories of failing to deliver Brexit at all

    Given the reputation of Boris as an untrustworthy incompetent, I suspect he may be bumbling towards what he perceives to be an achievable Brexit conclusion.

    Leave with no Deal - Right of the Conservatives are happy, Nigel has to visit the vets to be neutered.

    However, leaving with No Deal means that we have to implement Deals to continue trade, life and maintain good relationships etc. Doing this will cause ripples on the now satisfied right but begin to soothe the discontented Europhile wing of the electorate.

    Following a No Deal strategy may be the only way to be all things to all men, given that accepting any agreement appears to be beyond the ability of parliament.

    Once No Deal is done the deals become far easier to implement.

    Boris is nothing if not inventive, and I suspect he is remarkably pragmatic where success and popularity are concerned as opposed to rigidly ideological.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Latest numbers:

    Boris 86
    Hunt 36
    Gove 35
    Javid 19
    Hancock 16
    Harper 8, Stewart 7, McVey 6, Leadsom 5

    Not much of a race, is it?
    It's going to be very close for second place IMO, and I'm not sure Boris will get that many more than 105 in the end which is the minimum to go through.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    OT

    Breaking

    Sky confirm that the US navy are assisting tankers in the Gulf of Oman as crews evacuate after attacks that are rumoured to be by torpedos. Sky saying not confirmed but if so massive crisis looms as the finger is being pointed at Iran.

    Oil rising and real fears for world trade

    Why would Iran torpedo tankers?
    Seems crazy but that is the report by Sky
    The report says oil prices heading higher. Let me guess. Iran has played the oil market on an expectation of higher oil prices - due to the very uncertainty they have caused.

    And if Saudi wanted to mess them up, then they could say they were going to pump a couple more million barrels a day.

    I do wonder if Iran is going for broke, given their continuing plan to build the Bomb has provoked Trump into threatening their regime.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,624

    isam said:

    isam said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I'd like to see a thread header from @isam on the virtues of Brexit. :D

    Oh and happy First Round Thursday PB :)

    Happy to oblige!

    http://aboutasfarasdelgados.blogspot.com/2014/08/mass-immigration-stealth-tax-on-working.html
    Ah those terrible immigrants eh? I won't mention fascism and divisive politics of the extreme right, but it is important to mention Brexit will only affect immigration if it turns us, as seems likely, into an economic basketcase where no one wants to come anymore as there are no prospects. Even I don't believe it will be that bad. Anyway, EU immigration only made for 50% of the immigration. The rest we had/have full control of. First argument in favour of Brexit completely shot down. Still waiting for a defensible argument in favour of the madness.
    If your conclusion from reading that is I think immigrants are terrible, then you are beyond repair
    Given that he's a longstanding Conservative member Nigel Foremain is presumably a supporter of reducing net immigration to below 100,000 per year.
    Conservative policy is surely to increase immigration while blaming those beastly Europeans (and sometimes Tony Blair). Non-EU immigration (so nothing to do with Brussels or FOM) rose under Cameron and May.
    What the Conservatives have been doing in government has often been the opposite of what their stated objectives are, what the public perception is and what is in their own best interests.

    I do wonder if they have any idea as to what they are doing.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:

    OT

    Breaking

    Sky confirm that the US navy are assisting tankers in the Gulf of Oman as crews evacuate after attacks that are rumoured to be by torpedos. Sky saying not confirmed but if so massive crisis looms as the finger is being pointed at Iran.

    Oil rising and real fears for world trade

    :open_mouth: I’m in Oman today!
    I think even the Iranian Navy could sink a tanker with a torpedo if they really wanted to. They are very big, very slow and highly vulnerable to under the keel cavitation kills which don't even need a direct hit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited June 2019
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    AndyJS said:
    I happen to agree with him that it's pretty off-colour.

    But from Nigel "pick up a rifle and head for the front lines" Farage, it loses its sting a little.
    It was wholly unacceptable and she should face consequences
    It depends what the consequences are.

    If scorn is poured on her from opponents then I'm with you. If you can't take it then don't dish it out.

    However if you're implying some form of formal sanction, investigation or legal action then I say no. If a citizen can't ridicule and imply comedic violence against our all too powerful politicians then we begin the slide toward a situation that should not be contemplated

    I recall Kenny Everett bringing the house down when he told the Conservative conference to kick away Michael Foot's walking stick and nuke Moscow.

    Be careful what you wish for.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Quincel said:

    I don't normally think 40/1 candidates are value lays, but why is Tulsi Gabbard persistently below 50 on Betfair for the Dem nomination? She's doing virtually nothing right, has no obvious constituency of voters, and the last 5 national polls are mostly 0%s!

    Have you factored in support from Putin?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    philiph said:

    Once No Deal is done the deals become far easier to implement.

    We instantly pay the £39bn and implement the backstop...
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    Amazed to see Stewart come second to Johnson in the ConservativeHome voodoo poll.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    OT

    Breaking

    Sky confirm that the US navy are assisting tankers in the Gulf of Oman as crews evacuate after attacks that are rumoured to be by torpedos. Sky saying not confirmed but if so massive crisis looms as the finger is being pointed at Iran.

    Oil rising and real fears for world trade

    :open_mouth: I’m in Oman today!
    I think even the Iranian Navy could sink a tanker with a torpedo if they really wanted to. They are very big, very slow and highly vulnerable to under the keel cavitation kills which don't even need a direct hit.
    One of the tankers is reported as suffering a hull breach above the waterline, which doesn't sound much like a torpedo, either.

    Usual FUD.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    edited June 2019
    geoffw said:

    There being no answer to @isam's question other than suggestions that he write one shows the institutional bias of this site. Sad but true.

    Except we’ve done so, unless you think Richard Tyndall is a Remainer.

    Richard Tyndall has written a couple of headers on Leaving/what to do next.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/26/richard-tyndall-on-the-exit-strategy/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/05/29/richard-tyndall-on-laying-the-groundwork-for-an-out-vote/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Amazed to see Stewart come second to Johnson in the ConservativeHome voodoo poll.

    The silent significant minority.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    OT

    Breaking

    Sky confirm that the US navy are assisting tankers in the Gulf of Oman as crews evacuate after attacks that are rumoured to be by torpedos. Sky saying not confirmed but if so massive crisis looms as the finger is being pointed at Iran.

    Oil rising and real fears for world trade

    Why would Iran torpedo tankers?
    The same reason they were bombing a Saudi airfield from rebel-held areas of Yemen yesterday. There’s a war going on, and it’s now so bad that Israelis and Saudis are working together to come up with a plan to put Iran back in its box. There’s been a blockade of Qatar (who are funding Iran) by the rest of the Gulf states for about 18 months now.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133
    JackW said:

    AndyJS said:
    I happen to agree with him that it's pretty off-colour.

    But from Nigel "pick up a rifle and head for the front lines" Farage, it loses its sting a little.
    It was wholly unacceptable and she should face consequences
    It depends what the consequences are.

    If scorn is poured on her from opponents then I'm with you. If you can't take it then don't dish it out.

    However if you're implying some form of formal sanction, investigation or legal action then I say no. If a citizen can't ridicule and imply comedic violence against our all too powerful politicians then we begin the slide toward a situation that should not be contemplated

    I recall Kenny Everett bringing the house down when he told the Conservative conference to kick away Michael Foot's walking stick and nuke Moscow.

    Be careful what you wish for.
    Inciting someone to use acid to attack someone else, comedy or otherwise, is a very serious matter and at the very least the BBC should suspend her
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Nigelb said:

    Amazed to see Stewart come second to Johnson in the ConservativeHome voodoo poll.

    The silent significant minority.
    Stewart would have to overtake Javid and Hancock and then get most of their votes to stand a chance of getting in the final two.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133
    Nigelb said:

    Amazed to see Stewart come second to Johnson in the ConservativeHome voodoo poll.

    The silent significant minority.
    I am not silent. I support Rory
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    JackW said:

    AndyJS said:
    I happen to agree with him that it's pretty off-colour.

    But from Nigel "pick up a rifle and head for the front lines" Farage, it loses its sting a little.
    It was wholly unacceptable and she should face consequences
    It depends what the consequences are.

    If scorn is poured on her from opponents then I'm with you. If you can't take it then don't dish it out.

    However if you're implying some form of formal sanction, investigation or legal action then I say no. If a citizen can't ridicule and imply comedic violence against our all too powerful politicians then we begin the slide toward a situation that should not be contemplated

    I recall Kenny Everett bringing the house down when he told the Conservative conference to kick away Michael Foot's walking stick and nuke Moscow.

    Be careful what you wish for.
    The problem with the Brand joke is that it's a rather more credible incitement to violence than Kenny Everett's bit of off key satire.

    The line between comedy and incitement isn't a bright one.

    "It depends what the consequences are."
    That cuts both ways.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    edited June 2019

    Nigelb said:

    Amazed to see Stewart come second to Johnson in the ConservativeHome voodoo poll.

    The silent significant minority.
    I am not silent. I support Rory
    As ever, you are the splendid exception which proves the rule, Big_G.

    Though I'm hoping you prove a trend setter.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,133
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Amazed to see Stewart come second to Johnson in the ConservativeHome voodoo poll.

    The silent significant minority.
    I am not silent. I support Rory
    As ever, you are the splendid exception which proves the rule, Big_G.

    Though I'm hoping you prove a trend setter.
    I want sanity but may have a while to wait
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    geoffw said:

    There being no answer to @isam's question other than suggestions that he write one shows the institutional bias of this site. Sad but true.

    Except we’ve done so, unless you think Richard Tyndall is a Remainer.

    Richard Tyndall has written a couple of headers on Leaving/what to do next.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/26/richard-tyndall-on-the-exit-strategy/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/05/29/richard-tyndall-on-laying-the-groundwork-for-an-out-vote/
    I'd very much like to see his solutions for our current predicament.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,847
    philiph said:

    HYUFD said:

    If the Tories do not commit to deliver Brexit they will be overtaken by the Brexit Party as the main party of the right it is as simple as that. No Deal Brexit would create difficulties and is certainly not as ideal a scenario as Brexit with a Deal but it would not produce the existential crisis for the Tories of failing to deliver Brexit at all

    Given the reputation of Boris as an untrustworthy incompetent, I suspect he may be bumbling towards what he perceives to be an achievable Brexit conclusion.

    Leave with no Deal - Right of the Conservatives are happy, Nigel has to visit the vets to be neutered.

    However, leaving with No Deal means that we have to implement Deals to continue trade, life and maintain good relationships etc. Doing this will cause ripples on the now satisfied right but begin to soothe the discontented Europhile wing of the electorate.

    Following a No Deal strategy may be the only way to be all things to all men, given that accepting any agreement appears to be beyond the ability of parliament.

    Once No Deal is done the deals become far easier to implement.

    Boris is nothing if not inventive, and I suspect he is remarkably pragmatic where success and popularity are concerned as opposed to rigidly ideological.
    What you do not understand is No Dealers will never be satisfied. When it comes to continue trade and arrange a deal that will involve us paying billions to the EU in lieu of our exit costs, for that is the only deal that is possible, they will cry betrayal, no surrender and traitor at Boris (or whoever is PM).

    Their raison d'etre is not No Deal any more than it was Brexit. Once no deal is achieved their still needs to be a vehicle for the anger, frustration and dislike of the EU and foreigners.

    You cannot rationalise or manage fundamentalists. Get into bed with them at your peril.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2019
    Voting has just opened in the Tory leadership ballot. Electorate = 313.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    edited June 2019

    JackW said:

    AndyJS said:
    I happen to agree with him that it's pretty off-colour.

    But from Nigel "pick up a rifle and head for the front lines" Farage, it loses its sting a little.
    It was wholly unacceptable and she should face consequences
    It depends what the consequences are.

    If scorn is poured on her from opponents then I'm with you. If you can't take it then don't dish it out.

    However if you're implying some form of formal sanction, investigation or legal action then I say no. If a citizen can't ridicule and imply comedic violence against our all too powerful politicians then we begin the slide toward a situation that should not be contemplated

    I recall Kenny Everett bringing the house down when he told the Conservative conference to kick away Michael Foot's walking stick and nuke Moscow.

    Be careful what you wish for.
    Inciting someone to use acid to attack someone else, comedy or otherwise, is a very serious matter and at the very least the BBC should suspend her
    BBC also aired the previously-banned Heidi Allen episode of HIGNFY last week. Jo Brand was hosting and a lot of the jokes on that were very off-colour too, some bordering on racist with regard to the royal baby, and quite clearly everyone involved in the show had forgotten about the EU election impartiality rules. The lawyers had no choice but to bin it when they did.

    The acid joke is very close to the line indeed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    A late boost for Andrea Leadsom from IpsosMori as she is the only Tory leadership contender who has a bigger lead than Boris over Corbyn as preferred PM across the UK. Gove does worst only tieing Corbyn

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/conservative-leadership-candidates-head-head-versus-jeremy-corbyn
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    nichomar said:

    If you have to tack towards you’re rivals policies to avoid wipe out leaving behind your principles and a large slice of your traditional support is it really worth it?

    Leave Cameron out of this!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    Amazed to see Stewart come second to Johnson in the ConservativeHome voodoo poll.

    He is the only Remainer in the top 4 and only on 11% to 54% for Boris so it is not that surprising
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    AndyJS said:
    I happen to agree with him that it's pretty off-colour.

    But from Nigel "pick up a rifle and head for the front lines" Farage, it loses its sting a little.
    It was wholly unacceptable and she should face consequences
    It depends what the consequences are.

    If scorn is poured on her from opponents then I'm with you. If you can't take it then don't dish it out.

    However if you're implying some form of formal sanction, investigation or legal action then I say no. If a citizen can't ridicule and imply comedic violence against our all too powerful politicians then we begin the slide toward a situation that should not be contemplated

    I recall Kenny Everett bringing the house down when he told the Conservative conference to kick away Michael Foot's walking stick and nuke Moscow.

    Be careful what you wish for.
    Inciting someone to use acid to attack someone else, comedy or otherwise, is a very serious matter and at the very least the BBC should suspend her
    If it's comedy it is not a serious matter. No one thought Everett was inciting the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force to start WW III and the same is true of Jo Brand.

    Who knew you and Nigel Farage would become snowflakes in the face of Jo Brand's caustic comedy routine.

    Astonishing.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited June 2019

    geoffw said:

    There being no answer to @isam's question other than suggestions that he write one shows the institutional bias of this site. Sad but true.

    Except we’ve done so, unless you think Richard Tyndall is a Remainer.

    Richard Tyndall has written a couple of headers on Leaving/what to do next.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/26/richard-tyndall-on-the-exit-strategy/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/05/29/richard-tyndall-on-laying-the-groundwork-for-an-out-vote/
    Two in the last four years 🙌🏻

    None in the last three 👍🏻
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    HYUFD said:
    I'm sure those attitudes will be reversed once Boris manages to upset half of his backers with another hollow Brexit plan.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    If the Tories do not commit to deliver Brexit they will be overtaken by the Brexit Party as the main party of the right it is as simple as that. No Deal Brexit would create difficulties and is certainly not as ideal a scenario as Brexit with a Deal but it would not produce the existential crisis for the Tories of failing to deliver Brexit at all

    Probably we will leave on something like Theresa May's terms but tweaked so everyone can save face. A far longer transition period before the dreaded backstop, perhaps to allow technological solutions, and removal of May's red lines round FOM. It gives all three sides cover.
    I suspect the Withdrawal Agreement tweaked may still be the final destination
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    philiph said:

    HYUFD said:

    If the Tories do not commit to deliver Brexit they will be overtaken by the Brexit Party as the main party of the right it is as simple as that. No Deal Brexit would create difficulties and is certainly not as ideal a scenario as Brexit with a Deal but it would not produce the existential crisis for the Tories of failing to deliver Brexit at all

    Given the reputation of Boris as an untrustworthy incompetent, I suspect he may be bumbling towards what he perceives to be an achievable Brexit conclusion.

    Leave with no Deal - Right of the Conservatives are happy, Nigel has to visit the vets to be neutered.

    However, leaving with No Deal means that we have to implement Deals to continue trade, life and maintain good relationships etc. Doing this will cause ripples on the now satisfied right but begin to soothe the discontented Europhile wing of the electorate.

    Following a No Deal strategy may be the only way to be all things to all men, given that accepting any agreement appears to be beyond the ability of parliament.

    Once No Deal is done the deals become far easier to implement.

    Boris is nothing if not inventive, and I suspect he is remarkably pragmatic where success and popularity are concerned as opposed to rigidly ideological.
    Agreed, even if he does No Deal Boris only wants it as a route to a final Deal
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:
    I'm sure those attitudes will be reversed once Boris manages to upset half of his backers with another hollow Brexit plan.
    Or if Raab or McVey do better than expected
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    edited June 2019
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If the Tories do not commit to deliver Brexit they will be overtaken by the Brexit Party as the main party of the right it is as simple as that. No Deal Brexit would create difficulties and is certainly not as ideal a scenario as Brexit with a Deal but it would not produce the existential crisis for the Tories of failing to deliver Brexit at all

    Probably we will leave on something like Theresa May's terms but tweaked so everyone can save face. A far longer transition period before the dreaded backstop, perhaps to allow technological solutions, and removal of May's red lines round FOM. It gives all three sides cover.
    I suspect the Withdrawal Agreement tweaked may still be the final destination
    Let’s hope so. The backstop language really doesn’t need to move much, for a clear majority of MPs (and the country at large) to be happy with it. But it has to be the legal WA Treaty that changes, not some meaningless document that sits next to it.

    The reason why there’s all the talk from candidates about no deal, isn’t that no deal is preferable to a deal (it isn’t), but that there’s no chance whatsoever of getting the WA amended unless the EU understand that we are prepared to go through with it.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    geoffw said:

    There being no answer to @isam's question other than suggestions that he write one shows the institutional bias of this site. Sad but true.

    Are you suggesting that someone has written one and it has been rejected?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    OGH on an Oxford binge again

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1139096247665602560?s=20

    Though of course Brown, Edinburgh, in 2010 and Corbyn, non graduate, in 2017 got hung parliaments
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    isam said:

    Has there ever been a thread header on here that gives a positive or balanced view of leaving the EU? I don’t think I have read one that pays any attention to the people who voted for it and the reasons why it might be a good thing for them if it happened.

    Why don't you write one yourself instead of whinging
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If the Tories do not commit to deliver Brexit they will be overtaken by the Brexit Party as the main party of the right it is as simple as that. No Deal Brexit would create difficulties and is certainly not as ideal a scenario as Brexit with a Deal but it would not produce the existential crisis for the Tories of failing to deliver Brexit at all

    Probably we will leave on something like Theresa May's terms but tweaked so everyone can save face. A far longer transition period before the dreaded backstop, perhaps to allow technological solutions, and removal of May's red lines round FOM. It gives all three sides cover.
    I suspect the Withdrawal Agreement tweaked may still be the final destination
    Let’s hope so. The backstop language really doesn’t need to move much, for a clear majority of MPs (and the country at large) to be happy with it. But it has to be the legal WA Treaty that changes, not some meaningless document that sits next to it.

    The reason why there’s all the talk from candidates about no deal, isn’t that no deal is preferable to a deal (it isn’t), but that there’s no chance whatsoever of getting the WA amended unless the EU understand that we are prepared to go through with it.
    A technical solution for the Irish border is key and the EU look willing to consider that if Ireland does too
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722

    geoffw said:

    There being no answer to @isam's question other than suggestions that he write one shows the institutional bias of this site. Sad but true.

    Except we’ve done so, unless you think Richard Tyndall is a Remainer.

    Richard Tyndall has written a couple of headers on Leaving/what to do next.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/26/richard-tyndall-on-the-exit-strategy/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/05/29/richard-tyndall-on-laying-the-groundwork-for-an-out-vote/
    One before and one immediately after the 2016 referendum.
    Anything since then?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Ken Baker on Sky News talking about 1626 and 1628 in relation to Parliament being prorogued.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869

    AndyJS said:

    Latest numbers:

    Boris 86
    Hunt 36
    Gove 35
    Javid 19
    Hancock 16
    Harper 8, Stewart 7, McVey 6, Leadsom 5

    Not much of a race, is it?
    Three reasons why Boris might underperform:

    - MPs backing him publicly just to keep their local party happy
    - Ditto just to maximise their chance of a job
    - Supporters trying to influence who the competitor will be
  • oldpoliticsoldpolitics Posts: 455
    HYUFD said:

    A late boost for Andrea Leadsom from IpsosMori as she is the only Tory leadership contender who has a bigger lead than Boris over Corbyn as preferred PM across the UK. Gove does worst only tieing Corbyn

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/conservative-leadership-candidates-head-head-versus-jeremy-corbyn

    And yet the Leadsom Betfair bubble has burst.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    An extremely good header with which I agree one hunnert percent.

    Tax bungs for the well off funded by spending the No Deal reserve - front runner Boris Johnson - this must be a contender for the most egregious policy pledge of all time.

    The combination of financial illiteracy, contempt for logic, shameless opportunism and moral bankruptcy is really quite something.

    It certainly deserves a prize - but preferably not the keys to number 10. I suggest an all expenses paid long weekend in Liverpool. Meeting all the people.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,847
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If the Tories do not commit to deliver Brexit they will be overtaken by the Brexit Party as the main party of the right it is as simple as that. No Deal Brexit would create difficulties and is certainly not as ideal a scenario as Brexit with a Deal but it would not produce the existential crisis for the Tories of failing to deliver Brexit at all

    Probably we will leave on something like Theresa May's terms but tweaked so everyone can save face. A far longer transition period before the dreaded backstop, perhaps to allow technological solutions, and removal of May's red lines round FOM. It gives all three sides cover.
    I suspect the Withdrawal Agreement tweaked may still be the final destination
    Let’s hope so. The backstop language really doesn’t need to move much, for a clear majority of MPs (and the country at large) to be happy with it. But it has to be the legal WA Treaty that changes, not some meaningless document that sits next to it.

    The reason why there’s all the talk from candidates about no deal, isn’t that no deal is preferable to a deal (it isn’t), but that there’s no chance whatsoever of getting the WA amended unless the EU understand that we are prepared to go through with it.
    The EU are aware of what the UK parliament thinks and they know we are not going to no deal. Theresa May pretended she was for two years. Boris can pretend for three months. If he wants a no deal rather than extension in October his first act will have to be trying to get a GE (which there is some chance parliament may not offer until a further extension is agreed).

    Lets see how a Tory PM campaigning on delivering hard Brexit with a theoretical poll lead, a couple of unpopular alternative policies and aversion to appearing before the public to debate their flagship policy does.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Bob Blackman strongly hints that he's supporting Andrea Leadsom by retweeting one of her campaign tweets.

    https://twitter.com/BobBlackman
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    AndyJS said:

    Ken Baker on Sky News talking about 1626 and 1628 in relation to Parliament being prorogued.

    I wasn't there .... honestly .... :innocent:
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722
    JackW said:

    AndyJS said:

    Ken Baker on Sky News talking about 1626 and 1628 in relation to Parliament being prorogued.

    I wasn't there .... honestly .... :innocent:
    Were you washing your hair?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Boris claims to offer finality and soon for Brexit as the nation is bored. The last thing it wants is Hunt or Rory negotiating for 3 more years a la May.

    Whether it’s possible or not at least punters will find out soon - not in 2022.

    Clarity and brevity is the offer.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Raab needs to get more than 30 votes to credibly stay in the race. He's been stuck on 23 endorsements for a very long time.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited June 2019

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If the Tories do not commit to deliver Brexit they will be overtaken by the Brexit Party as the main party of the right it is as simple as that. No Deal Brexit would create difficulties and is certainly not as ideal a scenario as Brexit with a Deal but it would not produce the existential crisis for the Tories of failing to deliver Brexit at all

    Probably we will leave on something like Theresa May's terms but tweaked so everyone can save face. A far longer transition period before the dreaded backstop, perhaps to allow technological solutions, and removal of May's red lines round FOM. It gives all three sides cover.
    I suspect the Withdrawal Agreement tweaked may still be the final destination
    Let’s hope so. The backstop language really doesn’t need to move much, for a clear majority of MPs (and the country at large) to be happy with it. But it has to be the legal WA Treaty that changes, not some meaningless document that sits next to it.

    The reason why there’s all the talk from candidates about no deal, isn’t that no deal is preferable to a deal (it isn’t), but that there’s no chance whatsoever of getting the WA amended unless the EU understand that we are prepared to go through with it.
    The EU are aware of what the UK parliament thinks and they know we are not going to no deal. Theresa May pretended she was for two years. Boris can pretend for three months. If he wants a no deal rather than extension in October his first act will have to be trying to get a GE (which there is some chance parliament may not offer until a further extension is agreed).

    Lets see how a Tory PM campaigning on delivering hard Brexit with a theoretical poll lead, a couple of unpopular alternative policies and aversion to appearing before the public to debate their flagship policy does.
    Boris has charisma, May did not and Corbyn also faces the problem he is losing Remainers to the LDs until he commits to EUref2.

    Of course if Macron vetoes further extension the Commons would have to decide on No Deal or Revoke anyway in October if they hsve not passed the Withdrawal Agreement by then and in that case Boris would do all he can to prevent them choosing Revoke and the failure of the stop No Deal vote yesterday helps him on that
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722
    edited June 2019
    deleted for stupidity
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    edited June 2019

    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If the Tories do not commit to deliver Brexit they will be overtaken by the Brexit Party as the main party of the right it is as simple as that. No Deal Brexit would create difficulties and is certainly not as ideal a scenario as Brexit with a Deal but it would not produce the existential crisis for the Tories of failing to deliver Brexit at all

    Probably we will leave on something like Theresa May's terms but tweaked so everyone can save face. A far longer transition period before the dreaded backstop, perhaps to allow technological solutions, and removal of May's red lines round FOM. It gives all three sides cover.
    I suspect the Withdrawal Agreement tweaked may still be the final destination
    Let’s hope so. The backstop language really doesn’t need to move much, for a clear majority of MPs (and the country at large) to be happy with it. But it has to be the legal WA Treaty that changes, not some meaningless document that sits next to it.

    The reason why there’s all the talk from candidates about no deal, isn’t that no deal is preferable to a deal (it isn’t), but that there’s no chance whatsoever of getting the WA amended unless the EU understand that we are prepared to go through with it.
    The EU are aware of what the UK parliament thinks and they know we are not going to no deal. Theresa May pretended she was for two years. Boris can pretend for three months. If he wants a no deal rather than extension in October his first act will have to be trying to get a GE (which there is some chance parliament may not offer until a further extension is agreed).

    Lets see how a Tory PM campaigning on delivering hard Brexit with a theoretical poll lead, a couple of unpopular alternative policies and aversion to appearing before the public to debate their flagship policy does.
    They know the current deal doesn’t pass the current Parliament, so one or other has to change.

    September election is 14 on Betfair. I’m topping up.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited June 2019
    OllyT said:

    isam said:

    Has there ever been a thread header on here that gives a positive or balanced view of leaving the EU? I don’t think I have read one that pays any attention to the people who voted for it and the reasons why it might be a good thing for them if it happened.

    Why don't you write one yourself instead of whinging
    I’ve answered that question several times on this thread, but is it really whingeing to point out the imbalance?

    I merely enquired if there had been any, and now @TheScreamingEagles has confirmed: Two in the last 1500 days/4500 threads or so, and none for three years, (written by a leaver that is pro mass immigration, so not entirely representative of leave voters I’d say)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    .
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    There being no answer to @isam's question other than suggestions that he write one shows the institutional bias of this site. Sad but true.

    Except we’ve done so, unless you think Richard Tyndall is a Remainer.

    Richard Tyndall has written a couple of headers on Leaving/what to do next.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/26/richard-tyndall-on-the-exit-strategy/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/05/29/richard-tyndall-on-laying-the-groundwork-for-an-out-vote/
    One before and one immediately after the 2016 referendum.
    Anything since then?
    Apparently not.
    The unwillingness of Leavers to put forward a reasoned case at length is highly disappointing.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    HYUFD said:

    A late boost for Andrea Leadsom from IpsosMori as she is the only Tory leadership contender who has a bigger lead than Boris over Corbyn as preferred PM across the UK. Gove does worst only tieing Corbyn

    https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/conservative-leadership-candidates-head-head-versus-jeremy-corbyn

    And yet the Leadsom Betfair bubble has burst.
    If you look at the detail of the poll it’s all MoE stuff. Johnson, Leadsom, Hunt and Javid all hold small leads over Jeremy Corbyn in terms of who the public prefer as PM.

    Leadsom has 34% (same as Hunt) and only 2% ahead of Gove and Javid who are also on 32% with a high number of don’t knows.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,709
    An easy way to sort out the Conservative leadership election:

    The winner is whoever drinks the most Sourtoe Cocktails!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48612467
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    HYUFD said:

    If they’re doing that it suggests that they are unsure they’ll make it through round one.

    I expect they’ll argue a female needs to be kept in the race.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If the Tories do not commit to deliver Brexit they will be overtaken by the Brexit Party as the main party of the right it is as simple as that. No Deal Brexit would create difficulties and is certainly not as ideal a scenario as Brexit with a Deal but it would not produce the existential crisis for the Tories of failing to deliver Brexit at all

    Probably we will leave on something like Theresa May's terms but tweaked so everyone can save face. A far longer transition period before the dreaded backstop, perhaps to allow technological solutions, and removal of May's red lines round FOM. It gives all three sides cover.
    I suspect the Withdrawal Agreement tweaked may still be the final destination
    Likewise. But with a Paddington Hard Stare from Boris, directed at Brussels. If he thinks for one minute the EU is acting in bad faith, he will pull the whole thing. "Abrogation" will be the big stick Boris will threaten to wield, a weapon unknown in May's armoury.

    Having planned for it in the meantime.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    AndyJS said:

    Raab needs to get more than 30 votes to credibly stay in the race. He's been stuck on 23 endorsements for a very long time.


    Raab is drifting very fast.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    IanB2 said:

    Cycle’s leads are so text heavy.

    It was a long plane journey. I’ll try cuneiform next time.

    That cartoon was by Sir David Low.

    Quite right. But wasn’t he also known as Vicky? Apologies if I got this wrong.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Scott_P said:
    There are articles like that every day in the British newspapers in favour of various politicians. Owen Jones in favour of Jeremy Corbyn, for instance.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    There being no answer to @isam's question other than suggestions that he write one shows the institutional bias of this site. Sad but true.

    Except we’ve done so, unless you think Richard Tyndall is a Remainer.

    Richard Tyndall has written a couple of headers on Leaving/what to do next.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/26/richard-tyndall-on-the-exit-strategy/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/05/29/richard-tyndall-on-laying-the-groundwork-for-an-out-vote/
    One before and one immediately after the 2016 referendum.
    Anything since then?
    Seriously unless you are suggesting that pro-Brexit headers are being submitted and rejected or censored we must assume that they are not appearing because nobody is writing them.

    Seems like the usual case of leavers blaming everyone else but themselves for the problem. Perhaps some of you should get off your backsides and submit a piece
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    An easy way to sort out the Conservative leadership election:

    The winner is whoever drinks the most Sourtoe Cocktails!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48612467

    "Toes have been swallowed or stolen in the past".
    Probably best not risk it on Tory MPs, then.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If the Tories do not commit to deliver Brexit they will be overtaken by the Brexit Party as the main party of the right it is as simple as that. No Deal Brexit would create difficulties and is certainly not as ideal a scenario as Brexit with a Deal but it would not produce the existential crisis for the Tories of failing to deliver Brexit at all

    Probably we will leave on something like Theresa May's terms but tweaked so everyone can save face. A far longer transition period before the dreaded backstop, perhaps to allow technological solutions, and removal of May's red lines round FOM. It gives all three sides cover.
    I suspect the Withdrawal Agreement tweaked may still be the final destination
    Pb.com tories have been saying this for two years. I can recall many Solomonic utterances about how things will be fudged at the last minute because that's apparently how the EU negotiates.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,709

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If the Tories do not commit to deliver Brexit they will be overtaken by the Brexit Party as the main party of the right it is as simple as that. No Deal Brexit would create difficulties and is certainly not as ideal a scenario as Brexit with a Deal but it would not produce the existential crisis for the Tories of failing to deliver Brexit at all

    Probably we will leave on something like Theresa May's terms but tweaked so everyone can save face. A far longer transition period before the dreaded backstop, perhaps to allow technological solutions, and removal of May's red lines round FOM. It gives all three sides cover.
    I suspect the Withdrawal Agreement tweaked may still be the final destination
    Likewise. But with a Paddington Hard Stare from Boris, directed at Brussels. If he thinks for one minute the EU is acting in bad faith, he will pull the whole thing. "Abrogation" will be the big stick Boris will threaten to wield, a weapon unknown in May's armoury.

    Having planned for it in the meantime.
    I fear you're putting a little too much faith in Boris's skill and planning. In what do you base this faith ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    Apols if already done but I am interested in what people think the 2 magic numbers are for Johnson in the 1st ballot - i.e. the one that if he exceeds it means he is virtually home and hosed, and the one that if he falls below it means he might be in serious danger.

    I am thinking 120 and 80?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    Harper already at 900 so I presume he hasn’t got the numbers and everyone knows.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T

    "Delayed start - inspection at 10:30"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/cricket/47477419
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    kinabalu said:

    Apols if already done but I am interested in what people think the 2 magic numbers are for Johnson in the 1st ballot - i.e. the one that if he exceeds it means he is virtually home and hosed, and the one that if he falls below it means he might be in serious danger.

    I am thinking 120 and 80?

    Agree, but with this silly voting system you can get 120 in the first round and not be certain of going through if your supporters get bored and start voting for other candidates in later rounds.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    OllyT said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    There being no answer to @isam's question other than suggestions that he write one shows the institutional bias of this site. Sad but true.

    Except we’ve done so, unless you think Richard Tyndall is a Remainer.

    Richard Tyndall has written a couple of headers on Leaving/what to do next.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/26/richard-tyndall-on-the-exit-strategy/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/05/29/richard-tyndall-on-laying-the-groundwork-for-an-out-vote/
    One before and one immediately after the 2016 referendum.
    Anything since then?
    Seriously unless you are suggesting that pro-Brexit headers are being submitted and rejected or censored we must assume that they are not appearing because nobody is writing them.

    Seems like the usual case of leavers blaming everyone else but themselves for the problem. Perhaps some of you should get off your backsides and submit a piece
    I have submitted two or three which have been knocked back or ignored, so your assumption is incorrect.

    Anyway, I am prepared to accept the site bias, I like commenting below the line, but thought it worth pointing out
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    isam said:

    OllyT said:

    isam said:

    Has there ever been a thread header on here that gives a positive or balanced view of leaving the EU? I don’t think I have read one that pays any attention to the people who voted for it and the reasons why it might be a good thing for them if it happened.

    Why don't you write one yourself instead of whinging
    I’ve answered that question several times on this thread, but is it really whingeing to point out the imbalance?

    I merely enquired if there had been any, and now @TheScreamingEagles has confirmed: Two in the last 1500 days/4500 threads or so, and none for three years, (written by a leaver that is pro mass immigration, so not entirely representative of leave voters I’d say)
    I agree; it's an interesting question.
    There is no real impediment to anyone presenting a reasoned and coherent case, so why are such headers so rare ?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    OllyT said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    There being no answer to @isam's question other than suggestions that he write one shows the institutional bias of this site. Sad but true.

    Except we’ve done so, unless you think Richard Tyndall is a Remainer.

    Richard Tyndall has written a couple of headers on Leaving/what to do next.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/26/richard-tyndall-on-the-exit-strategy/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/05/29/richard-tyndall-on-laying-the-groundwork-for-an-out-vote/
    One before and one immediately after the 2016 referendum.
    Anything since then?
    Seriously unless you are suggesting that pro-Brexit headers are being submitted and rejected or censored we must assume that they are not appearing because nobody is writing them.

    Seems like the usual case of leavers blaming everyone else but themselves for the problem. Perhaps some of you should get off your backsides and submit a piece
    I always assumed everyone knew this was a Lib Dem site with a bit of gambling thrown in to keep it interesting.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I fear you're putting a little too much faith in Boris's skill and planning. In what do you base this faith ?

    https://twitter.com/andrewhunterm/status/1138744036502757376
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Guido has just added two new names to Jeremy Hunt's list: Keith Simpson and Royston Smith.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,709
    isam said:

    OllyT said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    There being no answer to @isam's question other than suggestions that he write one shows the institutional bias of this site. Sad but true.

    Except we’ve done so, unless you think Richard Tyndall is a Remainer.

    Richard Tyndall has written a couple of headers on Leaving/what to do next.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/26/richard-tyndall-on-the-exit-strategy/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/05/29/richard-tyndall-on-laying-the-groundwork-for-an-out-vote/
    One before and one immediately after the 2016 referendum.
    Anything since then?
    Seriously unless you are suggesting that pro-Brexit headers are being submitted and rejected or censored we must assume that they are not appearing because nobody is writing them.

    Seems like the usual case of leavers blaming everyone else but themselves for the problem. Perhaps some of you should get off your backsides and submit a piece
    I have submitted two or three which have been knocked back or ignored, so your assumption is incorrect.

    Anyway, I am prepared to accept the site bias, I like commenting below the line, but thought it worth pointing out
    Haven't you had threaders published in the past?

    I'll give two answers to your question:
    1) Leavers are far too busy and influential to bother writing informed headers for free.
    2) Leavers understand that their project is an almighty mess, and it is difficult to write anything positive about it. It's easier to let someone else do it, and then they can be blamed.

    Choose whichever you prefer ;)
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722
    §
    OllyT said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    There being no answer to @isam's question other than suggestions that he write one shows the institutional bias of this site. Sad but true.

    Except we’ve done so, unless you think Richard Tyndall is a Remainer.

    Richard Tyndall has written a couple of headers on Leaving/what to do next.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/26/richard-tyndall-on-the-exit-strategy/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/05/29/richard-tyndall-on-laying-the-groundwork-for-an-out-vote/
    One before and one immediately after the 2016 referendum.
    Anything since then?
    Seriously unless you are suggesting that pro-Brexit headers are being submitted and rejected or censored we must assume that they are not appearing because nobody is writing them.

    Seems like the usual case of leavers blaming everyone else but themselves for the problem. Perhaps some of you should get off your backsides and submit a piece
    If you read through the thread you would have seen that indeed some have been submitted but not taken up.
This discussion has been closed.