Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Addicted to Gove. The Bizarre Gove Triangle involving, Gove, c

1235»

Comments

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    kinabalu said:

    I'm *amazed* that you are so utterly blind to anti-Semitism amongst your political friends, yet are so acutely sensitive to perceived racism by your enemies.

    It's almost as though you don't actually care about racism, except as a political weapon.

    Not an accusation against you but it is undeniable that the reverse also applies and widely - that antisemitism in Labour is being exploited to the hilt by political opponents many of whom are not as a general rule the most passionate of warriors against racism.

    (Snip)
    Yep, I agree with that. Some of the attacks against anti-Semitism within Labour are somewhat blunted by comments made by the same accusers against - say - Muslims.

    (Cue someone saying: "Islam isn't a race!") ;)
    How about me?

    "Are Somalis and Indonesians the same race?" :)
    The subject has responded to the stimulus as expected. ;)

    The point is the moment you say "Islam isn't a race!" in response to someone complaining about someone saying something twattish or evil against Muslims, you're siding with the twats.
    What about saying something twattish about Catholics? Or Jehovas? Or the Westborough Baptist Church? How about Scientology?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    MaxPB said:

    Steak night for the first time in a while. Made the mistake of getting filet mignon. Went rare and it's from a very reputable establishment so it should be pretty much the best available. I've realised it's the blandest and mushiest cut of beef. I'm back on the rib-eye train.

    MaxPB said:

    Steak night for the first time in a while. Made the mistake of getting filet mignon. Went rare and it's from a very reputable establishment so it should be pretty much the best available. I've realised it's the blandest and mushiest cut of beef. I'm back on the rib-eye train.

    One rule of beef: always choose the rib-eye.

    Always.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    AndyJS said:

    So Andrea Leadsom now has less than 22 hours to ensure at least 8 X MPs back her (including herself) and is still three short but is *still* layable at 9/1 on Betfair right now.

    Utter madness. I've literally run out of money to put down against it.

    She doesn't stand a hope of being elected leader. Free money.
    If you can afford to buy it.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,289
    A ditty on where drug revelations leave the typical PBers book:

    Running around banking Raab who's not whacked up on Scooby Snacks?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    I feel sorry for Sebastian Vettel who I normally find as likeable as a Hawaiian pizza.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381
    edited June 2019
    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:



    The standard for conviction is beyond reasonable doubt. The standard for bringing it to the attention of [whoever] for criminal trial is a prima facie level of evidence that the person has committed a crime. As to your contention that no jury would convict, I'm happy to test that by letting it go to trial and see what they would say. Maybe they'll surprise you, as Clive Ponting so demonstrated.

    You can sneak to whomever you like for whatever you like, the only bound being that your evidence is not so weak that you are wasting police time by advancing it. The DPP must satisfy himorherself that there is a reasonable chance of getting a conviction *and* that it is in the public interest to prosecute. On the first, there probably isn't, and on the second I'd expect the DPP to be wary of being used as a tool in a political battle. Not saying it won't happen (see under Huhne) but it's odds agin (see under Johnson, B.)
    To your second point (DPP wary of being used as a tool in a political battle) I would hope s/he would find the courage appropriate to the post, and there is an obvious recent (US) precedent with the investigation of Clinton's emails. To your first point (reasonable chance of getting a conviction), I think it would get past a jury.

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/insights/blogs/criminal-law-blog/prosecution-failures-assessing-the-reasons

    The conviction rate in Crown Court trials, excluding guilty plea cases, is *under 33%.* I the other over 66% a paid professional must have thought there was a reasonable chance of conviction, and got it wrong. Your and my amateur assessments are therefore of negligible value.

    The Clinton email case is just so far away from Gove doing a couple of lines that I don't know where to start with it.
    I think Kingsley Napley are wrong.

    In general, people plead guilty because their counsel advise them they would be likely to be found guilty at trial. A plea of guilty will result in a lower sentence than going to trial and being found guilty.

    The cases that go to trial are those where the Defence case is strongest.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176

    I feel sorry for Sebastian Vettel who I normally find as likeable as a Hawaiian pizza.

    F1 has lost the plot.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    My "efnik" homeland of Kerala in southern India has a population that is very roughly 55% Hindu, 27% Muslim, and 18% Christian. We all speak the local language, Malayalam. But are we really three separate races as Josias seems to suggest?

    On an even more personal note, my uncle who lives in Mumbai converted from Hinduism to Christianity and married a fellow Christian from Kerala. And I self-identify as an Atheist.

    Is he a different race from me?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Just catching up on the threads.

    Despite living in London and working in the City I have never taken cocaine or even been offered it. I’ve read enough emails/chats from my “victims” to know how widespread this is. It seems like the most colossal waste of money to me. There are so many nicer natural ways of getting a high and feeling good.

    Obviously, now I will never be able to stand for Tory party leader. But we all have our crosses to bear ..... :(
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    Chris said:

    justin124 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    Somewhat plausible. Although after a campaign, I would expect it to revert a lit to L:ab/Con
    That is the lowest Brexit vote share for a few weeks. Most of the survey was conducted before Peterborough result was known.I stongly suspect that a GE would see both main parties well above 30%. - ie their total combined vote share would be similar to 2015.
    Of course, the lower the Brexit Party goes in the polls, the more problematical the Tory strategy of embracing No Deal becomes. Suppose they can squeeze even a third of those Brexit Party votes in their direction. That's 6%. Can they be sure that adopting No Deal won't squeeze at least 6% of their existing supporters towards Labour and the Lib Dems?
    Pretty much, according to Deltapoll 53% of Tory voters would back No Deal over 34% for Remain (more than the 51% who would back May's current Deal over Remain) and 80% of Brexit Party voters would back No Deal over just 3% for Remain (and lots of 2017 Tories are currently voting Brexit Party)


    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/brexit-deal-leaders (p5)
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    nunuone said:
    Not in Australia
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited June 2019
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:
    I make that a 13% swing from Conservative to Liberal Democrat which will make a lot of difference in some places. On that straight swing, Taunton Deane (current Con majority 15,887) would fall but as we know it doesn't work like that. You'd likely see more Labour tactical voting and a CON unwind to BXP so I think on those polling numbers the LDs would be up to 50-60 seats.

    I note the CON-LAB share is back up to 53% which once again rewards them with the majority of the seats - we really need to see the duopoly nearer 40% to make things interesting but I would caution against treating Baxter as gospel.

    I'd also caution about choosing leaders on the basis of which polls better and policies on the basis of which one polls best with the public.
    If parties had solely chosen leaders based on who polls best with the public since the year 2000, then the Tories would have chosen Ken Clarke rather than IDS in 2001 and Michael Howard in 2003, David Cameron over David Davis in 2005 and Theresa May over Andrea Leadsom in 2016.

    Labour would have chosen David Miliband over Ed Miliband in 2010 and Andy Burnham over Jeremy Corbyn in 2015.

    Given hypothetical voting intentions were therefore largely correct based on those general elections in all cases bar maybe 2015 and 2016 (and even then May scraped home v Corbyn) it would also be a mistake to ignore them and Boris' high current poll rating with the public versus the other Tory leadership contenders
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    My "efnik" homeland of Kerala in southern India has a population that is very roughly 55% Hindu, 27% Muslim, and 18% Christian. We all speak the local language, Malayalam. But are we really three separate races as Josias seems to suggest?

    On an even more personal note, my uncle who lives in Mumbai converted from Hinduism to Christianity and married a fellow Christian from Kerala. And I self-identify as an Atheist.

    Is he a different race from me?

    You are making unnecessarily heavy weather of the obvious fact that you can have higher or less high correlations between two characteristics. If someone speaks Icelandic, does it follow that they are Icelandic? No. Is there a high probability that they are Icelandic? Yes. If someone speaks English, the answers are No and No.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,679
    Cyclefree said:

    Just catching up on the threads.

    Despite living in London and working in the City I have never taken cocaine or even been offered it. I’ve read enough emails/chats from my “victims” to know how widespread this is. It seems like the most colossal waste of money to me. There are so many nicer natural ways of getting a high and feeling good.

    Obviously, now I will never be able to stand for Tory party leader. But we all have our crosses to bear ..... :(

    Given your job they were probably too scared to offer you drugs.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    Steak night for the first time in a while. Made the mistake of getting filet mignon. Went rare and it's from a very reputable establishment so it should be pretty much the best available. I've realised it's the blandest and mushiest cut of beef. I'm back on the rib-eye train.

    MaxPB said:

    Steak night for the first time in a while. Made the mistake of getting filet mignon. Went rare and it's from a very reputable establishment so it should be pretty much the best available. I've realised it's the blandest and mushiest cut of beef. I'm back on the rib-eye train.

    One rule of beef: always choose the rib-eye.

    Always.
    Indeed. I broke the rule tonight, I've learned my lesson. At least the wine is good.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733

    Just watching Marr interviewing McVey. I really hope she wins. Labour landslide.

    The only McVey is up
    Baby
    For you and me now
    The only McVey is up
    Baby
    For you and me now
    Don't leave me McVey
    I can't survive, I can't stay alive
    Without your love, no baby
    Don't leave me McVey
    I can't exist, I will surely miss your tender kiss
    So don't leave me McVey
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Sean_F said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    viewcode said:



    The standard for conviction is beyond reasonable doubt. The standard for bringing it to the attention of [whoever] for criminal trial is a prima facie level of evidence that the person has committed a crime. As to your contention that no jury would convict, I'm happy to test that by letting it go to trial and see what they would say. Maybe they'll surprise you, as Clive Ponting so demonstrated.

    You can sneak to whomever you like for whatever you like, the only bound being that your evidence is not so weak that you are wasting police time by advancing it. The DPP must satisfy himorherself that there is a reasonable chance of getting a conviction *and* that it is in the public interest to prosecute. On the first, there probably isn't, and on the second I'd expect the DPP to be wary of being used as a tool in a political battle. Not saying it won't happen (see under Huhne) but it's odds agin (see under Johnson, B.)
    To your second point (DPP wary of being used as a tool in a political battle) I would hope s/he would find the courage appropriate to the post, and there is an obvious recent (US) precedent with the investigation of Clinton's emails. To your first point (reasonable chance of getting a conviction), I think it would get past a jury.

    https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/insights/blogs/criminal-law-blog/prosecution-failures-assessing-the-reasons

    The conviction rate in Crown Court trials, excluding guilty plea cases, is *under 33%.* I the other over 66% a paid professional must have thought there was a reasonable chance of conviction, and got it wrong. Your and my amateur assessments are therefore of negligible value.

    The Clinton email case is just so far away from Gove doing a couple of lines that I don't know where to start with it.
    I think Kingsley Napley are wrong.

    In general, people plead guilty because their counsel advise them they would be likely to be found guilty at trial. A plea of guilty will result in a lower sentence than going to trial and being found guilty.

    The cases that go to trial are those where the Defence case is strongest.
    Obviously. But that doesn't alter the point, which is that "likelihood of conviction" assessments are very difficult and of negligible value unless they come from lawyers (which I am) specialising in criminal trials (which I'm not).
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    ydoethur said:

    brendan16 said:

    viewcode said:

    malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm *amazed* that you are so utterly blind to anti-Semitism amongst your political friends, yet are so acutely sensitive to perceived racism by your enemies.

    It's almost as though you don't actually care about racism, except as a political weapon.

    Not an accusation against you but it is undeniable that the reverse also applies and widely - that antisemitism in Labour is being exploited to the hilt by political opponents many of whom are not as a general rule the most passionate of warriors against racism.

    (Snip)
    Yep, I agree with that. Some of the attacks against anti-Semitism within Labour are somewhat blunted by comments made by the same accusers against - say - Muslims.

    (Cue someone saying: "Islam isn't a race!") ;)
    I will make your day , you are talking bollox , Islam is not a race it is a religion.
    Where do you stand on Judaism on the same point?
    I am a Catholic - what race am I?

    Islam like Catholicism is the religion of over a billion people across the world of many races. Judaism is a much smaller faith whose adherents supposedly descend from Abraham and which doesn’t generally seek converts. Judaism is a race - other faiths perhaps not.
    Technically Muslims claim descent from Abraham as well.
    Arab Muslims do.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    Foxy said:

    Just watching Marr interviewing McVey. I really hope she wins. Labour landslide.

    The only McVey is up
    Baby
    For you and me now
    The only McVey is up
    Baby
    For you and me now
    Don't leave me McVey
    I can't survive, I can't stay alive
    Without your love, no baby
    Don't leave me McVey
    I can't exist, I will surely miss your tender kiss
    So don't leave me McVey
    Gyimah all your Govin'
    All your hugs and kisses too
    Gyimah all your Govin'
    Don't let up until we're through
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    Foxy said:

    Just watching Marr interviewing McVey. I really hope she wins. Labour landslide.

    The only McVey is up
    Baby
    For you and me now
    The only McVey is up
    Baby
    For you and me now
    Don't leave me McVey
    I can't survive, I can't stay alive
    Without your love, no baby
    Don't leave me McVey
    I can't exist, I will surely miss your tender kiss
    So don't leave me McVey
    I'm sure Philip Davies sings that every day.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Steak night for the first time in a while. Made the mistake of getting filet mignon. Went rare and it's from a very reputable establishment so it should be pretty much the best available. I've realised it's the blandest and mushiest cut of beef. I'm back on the rib-eye train.

    MaxPB said:

    Steak night for the first time in a while. Made the mistake of getting filet mignon. Went rare and it's from a very reputable establishment so it should be pretty much the best available. I've realised it's the blandest and mushiest cut of beef. I'm back on the rib-eye train.

    One rule of beef: always choose the rib-eye.

    Always.
    Indeed. I broke the rule tonight, I've learned my lesson. At least the wine is good.
    I prefer Rump Steak, generally.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    edited June 2019
    Cyclefree said:

    Just catching up on the threads.

    Despite living in London and working in the City I have never taken cocaine or even been offered it. I’ve read enough emails/chats from my “victims” to know how widespread this is. It seems like the most colossal waste of money to me. There are so many nicer natural ways of getting a high and feeling good.

    Obviously, now I will never be able to stand for Tory party leader. But we all have our crosses to bear ..... :(

    A brother of a friend of mine spent half a million pounds on cocaine and gambling over a few years, it destroyed his family.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    kinabalu said:

    I'm *amazed* that you are so utterly blind to anti-Semitism amongst your political friends, yet are so acutely sensitive to perceived racism by your enemies.

    It's almost as though you don't actually care about racism, except as a political weapon.

    Not an accusation against you but it is undeniable that the reverse also applies and widely - that antisemitism in Labour is being exploited to the hilt by political opponents many of whom are not as a general rule the most passionate of warriors against racism.

    (Snip)
    Yep, I agree with that. Some of the attacks against anti-Semitism within Labour are somewhat blunted by comments made by the same accusers against - say - Muslims.

    (Cue someone saying: "Islam isn't a race!") ;)
    How about me?

    "Are Somalis and Indonesians the same race?" :)
    The subject has responded to the stimulus as expected. ;)

    The point is the moment you say "Islam isn't a race!" in response to someone complaining about someone saying something twattish or evil against Muslims, you're siding with the twats.
    Islam is a religion, like Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism.
    I suspect the honourable gentleman is missing the point, and refer him to my previous response.

    In addition: Judaism is also a religion: and I'm far from certain that (as TUD points out below), that Ethiopian Jews (Beta Israel) are of the same race as most other Jews - despite AIUI being officially recognised as being Jewish.

    I also said above:

    The Falasha community of Ethiopia, were airlifted to Israel (in the 80s I think). Then you have traditions stating that there was another Jewish temple built in Elephantine, along the Nile, after the first was destroyed, and the claims that the Ethiopian city of Axum is currently home to the Ark. Despite being majority Christian, Ethiopians still involve "Ark replicas" (Tabots) in their Timkat festival.
    It is frustrating trying to verify the Ark thing. Graham Hancock (?no relation?) wrote a book about it which says that everyone in Axum believes it. If you go to Axum and ask people if they think the Ark is in Axum they all say yes. Trouble is, if you ask them why they hold this belief they invariably say "Because we read it in Mr Hancock's book."
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381
    Cyclefree said:

    Just catching up on the threads.

    Despite living in London and working in the City I have never taken cocaine or even been offered it. I’ve read enough emails/chats from my “victims” to know how widespread this is. It seems like the most colossal waste of money to me. There are so many nicer natural ways of getting a high and feeling good.

    Obviously, now I will never be able to stand for Tory party leader. But we all have our crosses to bear ..... :(


    Red wine is better.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381
    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    justin124 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    Somewhat plausible. Although after a campaign, I would expect it to revert a lit to L:ab/Con
    That is the lowest Brexit vote share for a few weeks. Most of the survey was conducted before Peterborough result was known.I stongly suspect that a GE would see both main parties well above 30%. - ie their total combined vote share would be similar to 2015.
    Of course, the lower the Brexit Party goes in the polls, the more problematical the Tory strategy of embracing No Deal becomes. Suppose they can squeeze even a third of those Brexit Party votes in their direction. That's 6%. Can they be sure that adopting No Deal won't squeeze at least 6% of their existing supporters towards Labour and the Lib Dems?
    Pretty much, according to Deltapoll 53% of Tory voters would back No Deal over 34% for Remain (more than the 51% who would back May's current Deal over Remain) and 80% of Brexit Party voters would back No Deal over just 3% for Remain (and lots of 2017 Tories are currently voting Brexit Party)


    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/brexit-deal-leaders (p5)
    Different pollsters come up with different results. But, this, and the Peterborough result are consistent with TBP support being just over 20% overall.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381
    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just catching up on the threads.

    Despite living in London and working in the City I have never taken cocaine or even been offered it. I’ve read enough emails/chats from my “victims” to know how widespread this is. It seems like the most colossal waste of money to me. There are so many nicer natural ways of getting a high and feeling good.

    Obviously, now I will never be able to stand for Tory party leader. But we all have our crosses to bear ..... :(

    A brother of a friend of mine spent half a million pounds on cocaine and gambling over a few years
    I know a man who is currently in prison after blowing £14m of his clients' money on his gambling addiction. A couple of days before his arrest, he blew £200,000.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    justin124 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    Somewhat plausible. Although after a campaign, I would expect it to revert a lit to L:ab/Con
    That is the lowest Brexit vote share for a few weeks. Most of the survey was conducted before Peterborough result was known.I stongly suspect that a GE would see both main parties well above 30%. - ie their total combined vote share would be similar to 2015.
    Of course, the lower the Brexit Party goes in the polls, the more problematical the Tory strategy of embracing No Deal becomes. Suppose they can squeeze even a third of those Brexit Party votes in their direction. That's 6%. Can they be sure that adopting No Deal won't squeeze at least 6% of their existing supporters towards Labour and the Lib Dems?
    Pretty much, according to Deltapoll 53% of Tory voters would back No Deal over 34% for Remain (more than the 51% who would back May's current Deal over Remain) and 80% of Brexit Party voters would back No Deal over just 3% for Remain (and lots of 2017 Tories are currently voting Brexit Party)


    http://www.deltapoll.co.uk/polls/brexit-deal-leaders (p5)
    Different pollsters come up with different results. But, this, and the Peterborough result are consistent with TBP support being just over 20% overall.
    It should also be noted that 18% of current Labour voters, 19% of current Green voters and even 5% of current LD voters would prefer No Deal to Remain on the same poll
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    edited June 2019
    Ishmael_Z said:

    kinabalu said:

    I'm *amazed* that you are so utterly blind to anti-Semitism amongst your political friends, yet are so acutely sensitive to perceived racism by your enemies.

    It's almost as though you don't actually care about racism, except as a political weapon.

    Not an accusation against you but it is undeniable that the reverse also applies and widely - that antisemitism in Labour is being exploited to the hilt by political opponents many of whom are not as a general rule the most passionate of warriors against racism.

    (Snip)
    Yep, I agree with that. Some of the attacks against anti-Semitism within Labour are somewhat blunted by comments made by the same accusers against - say - Muslims.

    (Cue someone saying: "Islam isn't a race!") ;)
    How about me?

    "Are Somalis and Indonesians the same race?" :)
    The subject has responded to the stimulus as expected. ;)

    The point is the moment you say "Islam isn't a race!" in response to someone complaining about someone saying something twattish or evil against Muslims, you're siding with the twats.
    Islam is a religion, like Christianity, Buddhism and Hinduism.
    I suspect the honourable gentleman is missing the point, and refer him to my previous response.

    In addition: Judaism is also a religion: and I'm far from certain that (as TUD points out below), that Ethiopian Jews (Beta Israel) are of the same race as most other Jews - despite AIUI being officially recognised as being Jewish.

    I also said above:

    The Falasha community of Ethiopia, were airlifted to Israel (in the 80s I think). Then you have traditions stating that there was another Jewish temple built in Elephantine, along the Nile, after the first was destroyed, and the claims that the Ethiopian city of Axum is currently home to the Ark. Despite being majority Christian, Ethiopians still involve "Ark replicas" (Tabots) in their Timkat festival.
    It is frustrating trying to verify the Ark thing. Graham Hancock (?no relation?) wrote a book about it which says that everyone in Axum believes it. If you go to Axum and ask people if they think the Ark is in Axum they all say yes. Trouble is, if you ask them why they hold this belief they invariably say "Because we read it in Mr Hancock's book."
    "The Sign and the Seal", yes. I am not Graham Hancock, by the way :)

    Purely for entertainment value, from 2003:
    https://grahamhancock.com/drsunilatlantis/
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    Just catching up on the threads.

    Despite living in London and working in the City I have never taken cocaine or even been offered it. I’ve read enough emails/chats from my “victims” to know how widespread this is. It seems like the most colossal waste of money to me. There are so many nicer natural ways of getting a high and feeling good.

    Obviously, now I will never be able to stand for Tory party leader. But we all have our crosses to bear ..... :(

    Given your job they were probably too scared to offer you drugs.
    I’m sure. I was more likely to have garlic waved at me.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just catching up on the threads.

    Despite living in London and working in the City I have never taken cocaine or even been offered it. I’ve read enough emails/chats from my “victims” to know how widespread this is. It seems like the most colossal waste of money to me. There are so many nicer natural ways of getting a high and feeling good.

    Obviously, now I will never be able to stand for Tory party leader. But we all have our crosses to bear ..... :(

    A brother of a friend of mine spent half a million pounds on cocaine and gambling over a few years
    I know a man who is currently in prison after blowing £14m of his clients' money on his gambling addiction. A couple of days before his arrest, he blew £200,000.
    Yes, my friends brother was gambling while coked up and using money embezzled or conned out of family. He had lost all contact with real values.

    I have never touched the stuff. Recreational drugs are very frowned upon in my line of work, apart from alcohol and not even much of that nowadays.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited June 2019

    nunuone said:
    Not in Australia
    The Australian pollsters totally overestimated Labor in Queensland this year which is why they called the election wrong
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,624
    Sean_F said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Steak night for the first time in a while. Made the mistake of getting filet mignon. Went rare and it's from a very reputable establishment so it should be pretty much the best available. I've realised it's the blandest and mushiest cut of beef. I'm back on the rib-eye train.

    MaxPB said:

    Steak night for the first time in a while. Made the mistake of getting filet mignon. Went rare and it's from a very reputable establishment so it should be pretty much the best available. I've realised it's the blandest and mushiest cut of beef. I'm back on the rib-eye train.

    One rule of beef: always choose the rib-eye.

    Always.
    Indeed. I broke the rule tonight, I've learned my lesson. At least the wine is good.
    I prefer Rump Steak, generally.
    Were ribeye steaks available in this country before approximately 2000 ?

    I'm sure it was only fillet, rump, sirloin and T-bone in the 1980s and 1990s.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    I feel sorry for Sebastian Vettel who I normally find as likeable as a Hawaiian pizza.

    That was a close decision they got utterly wrong.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    Ishmael_Z said:

    My "efnik" homeland of Kerala in southern India has a population that is very roughly 55% Hindu, 27% Muslim, and 18% Christian. We all speak the local language, Malayalam. But are we really three separate races as Josias seems to suggest?

    On an even more personal note, my uncle who lives in Mumbai converted from Hinduism to Christianity and married a fellow Christian from Kerala. And I self-identify as an Atheist.

    Is he a different race from me?

    You are making unnecessarily heavy weather of the obvious fact that you can have higher or less high correlations between two characteristics. If someone speaks Icelandic, does it follow that they are Icelandic? No. Is there a high probability that they are Icelandic? Yes. If someone speaks English, the answers are No and No.
    You seem to be suggesting my uncle is a different race from me!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    edited June 2019

    Sean_F said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Steak night for the first time in a while. Made the mistake of getting filet mignon. Went rare and it's from a very reputable establishment so it should be pretty much the best available. I've realised it's the blandest and mushiest cut of beef. I'm back on the rib-eye train.

    MaxPB said:

    Steak night for the first time in a while. Made the mistake of getting filet mignon. Went rare and it's from a very reputable establishment so it should be pretty much the best available. I've realised it's the blandest and mushiest cut of beef. I'm back on the rib-eye train.

    One rule of beef: always choose the rib-eye.

    Always.
    Indeed. I broke the rule tonight, I've learned my lesson. At least the wine is good.
    I prefer Rump Steak, generally.
    Were ribeye steaks available in this country before approximately 2000 ?

    I'm sure it was only fillet, rump, sirloin and T-bone in the 1980s and 1990s.
    It was often called by its French name, Entrecote.

    A much better cut. Flavour compounds are aromatic compounds in the chemical sense of aromatic. Therefore they are fat soluble. Lean cuts are relatively flavourless.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    HYUFD said:

    nunuone said:
    Not in Australia
    The Australian pollsters totally overestimated Labor in Queensland this year which is why they called the election wrong
    ? You mean, polls are sometimes wrong??
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just catching up on the threads.

    Despite living in London and working in the City I have never taken cocaine or even been offered it. I’ve read enough emails/chats from my “victims” to know how widespread this is. It seems like the most colossal waste of money to me. There are so many nicer natural ways of getting a high and feeling good.

    Obviously, now I will never be able to stand for Tory party leader. But we all have our crosses to bear ..... :(


    Red wine is better.
    I don’t drink much either. Last time I had wine was 13th May. I may treat myself after I do my talks on Tuesday.

    On the other hand if you were to see my plant nursery bills ......

    I recently managed to get some rare aloe polyphilla - an extraordinary plant naturally found in Lesotho, which survives outside even in very cold winters. It has a spectacular spiral pattern and I’m planning to have them in the rockery in the Lakes so that I can see them out of the bedroom window.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981



    "The Sign and the Seal", yes. I am not Graham Hancock, by the way :)

    Purely for entertainment value, from 2003:
    https://grahamhancock.com/drsunilatlantis/

    I meant ? no relation to Matt Hancock, not to you!

    Fascinating article by you, have skim-read it and now starting again at the beginning.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2019
    The strongest thing I've ever tried is whisky. :)
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,289
    Harper found some tuppenny ice
    Harper found some weed smell
    That's the stuff a Chief Whip knows
    Pop goes a rival
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Cyclefree said:

    Just catching up on the threads.

    Despite living in London and working in the City I have never taken cocaine or even been offered it. I’ve read enough emails/chats from my “victims” to know how widespread this is. It seems like the most colossal waste of money to me. There are so many nicer natural ways of getting a high and feeling good.

    Obviously, now I will never be able to stand for Tory party leader. But we all have our crosses to bear ..... :(

    It would be a brave stupid person indeed to offer the head of compliance a line of coke!
  • dodradedodrade Posts: 597

    Scott_P said:

    My musical references are just too damn subtle for the masses.

    If that's a Depeche Mode attempt, it's really clumsy...
    Strange-Gove
    Strange highs and strange lows
    Strange-Gove
    That's how my Gove goes

    :)
    If only Gove had listened to their wise words...

    "You'll see your problems multiplied
    If you continually decide
    To faithfully pursue
    The policy of truth"
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    Scott_P said:
    Wasn’t she supposed to be twinning with Boris?
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    My "efnik" homeland of Kerala in southern India has a population that is very roughly 55% Hindu, 27% Muslim, and 18% Christian. We all speak the local language, Malayalam. But are we really three separate races as Josias seems to suggest?

    On an even more personal note, my uncle who lives in Mumbai converted from Hinduism to Christianity and married a fellow Christian from Kerala. And I self-identify as an Atheist.

    Is he a different race from me?

    You are making unnecessarily heavy weather of the obvious fact that you can have higher or less high correlations between two characteristics. If someone speaks Icelandic, does it follow that they are Icelandic? No. Is there a high probability that they are Icelandic? Yes. If someone speaks English, the answers are No and No.
    You seem to be suggesting my uncle is a different race from me!
    No, no, no, no, no.

    I am not getting through.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    HYUFD said:

    nunuone said:
    Not in Australia
    The Australian pollsters totally overestimated Labor in Queensland this year which is why they called the election wrong
    You think the Australian pollsters totally overestimating Lablur demonstrates a liberal bias?

    Want to think about that for two seconds?
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    The weather forecast tomorrow in London is 12C. Which is about right for mid June, as a minimum.

    Except, this is the maximum. TWELVE DEGREES.

    Help. 12 bloody degrees Celsius AND it is gonna piss down.

    I. Want. To. Emigrate.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    edited June 2019
    deleted

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just catching up on the threads.

    Despite living in London and working in the City I have never taken cocaine or even been offered it. I’ve read enough emails/chats from my “victims” to know how widespread this is. It seems like the most colossal waste of money to me. There are so many nicer natural ways of getting a high and feeling good.

    Obviously, now I will never be able to stand for Tory party leader. But we all have our crosses to bear ..... :(

    Given your job they were probably too scared to offer you drugs.
    I’m sure. I was more likely to have garlic waved at me.
    Why? Were you a stakeholder?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    Byronic said:

    The weather forecast tomorrow in London is 12C. Which is about right for mid June, as a minimum.

    Except, this is the maximum. TWELVE DEGREES.

    Help. 12 bloody degrees Celsius AND it is gonna piss down.

    I. Want. To. Emigrate.

    Australia by any chance?
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Interestingly, or not, some weather geeks think tomorrow could be a modest record.

    In terms of max, it will likely be the coldest June day in London since the Coronation, and possibly since 1903.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Byronic said:

    The weather forecast tomorrow in London is 12C. Which is about right for mid June, as a minimum.

    Except, this is the maximum. TWELVE DEGREES.

    Help. 12 bloody degrees Celsius AND it is gonna piss down.

    I. Want. To. Emigrate.

    Not great for the Cricket World Cup, which I think could be washed out over the next few days.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:

    The weather forecast tomorrow in London is 12C. Which is about right for mid June, as a minimum.

    Except, this is the maximum. TWELVE DEGREES.

    Help. 12 bloody degrees Celsius AND it is gonna piss down.

    I. Want. To. Emigrate.

    Australia by any chance?
    I'm thinking the Alentejo. Or Andalucia. And I am thinking quite seriously.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Fuck it, even though I cannot explain Leadsom's price I've decided it is because absolute fucking idiots are betting on her. I have entered the great "Laying Leadsom" game. This is what I should have done with Jeb Bush but got scared off.
  • With Rudd and potentially Mordaunt and Hammond to back Hunt tomorrow surely it makes it now almost impossible to avoid a Johnson Vs Hunt final two....there's only ever going to be one winner there unless Boris really screws up.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,289
    Last one. Since politics has stripped me of anything sensible to say, I am reduced to such silliness:

    Hand in Gove
    The man talks out of his behind
    "These are not like any others' drugs
    These ones are different because it's us"
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    deleted

    oooh, what did you delete? A conversion to Unionism?
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    Byronic said:

    The weather forecast tomorrow in London is 12C. Which is about right for mid June, as a minimum.

    Except, this is the maximum. TWELVE DEGREES.

    Help. 12 bloody degrees Celsius AND it is gonna piss down.

    I. Want. To. Emigrate.

    Don’t you spend half the year in Thailand? ;-)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    Ishmael_Z said:



    "The Sign and the Seal", yes. I am not Graham Hancock, by the way :)

    Purely for entertainment value, from 2003:
    https://grahamhancock.com/drsunilatlantis/

    I meant ? no relation to Matt Hancock, not to you!

    Fascinating article by you, have skim-read it and now starting again at the beginning.
    Um, thank you :)
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Byronic said:

    The weather forecast tomorrow in London is 12C. Which is about right for mid June, as a minimum.

    Except, this is the maximum. TWELVE DEGREES.

    Help. 12 bloody degrees Celsius AND it is gonna piss down.

    I. Want. To. Emigrate.

    Don’t you spend half the year in Thailand? ;-)
    Oh god..... not again :-)
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:

    The weather forecast tomorrow in London is 12C. Which is about right for mid June, as a minimum.

    Except, this is the maximum. TWELVE DEGREES.

    Help. 12 bloody degrees Celsius AND it is gonna piss down.

    I. Want. To. Emigrate.

    Don’t you spend half the year in Thailand? ;-)
    I wish I could, right now (except that right now in Thailand it is the rainy season, which can be really grim. Endless grey and driving monsoons)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    Byronic said:

    Interestingly, or not, some weather geeks think tomorrow could be a modest record.

    In terms of max, it will likely be the coldest June day in London since the Coronation, and possibly since 1903.

    Ha! Where's yer global warming now? :lol:
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    edited June 2019

    Never seen it. I would have done if it had actually been about trainspotting.
    There is a train on the screen for around 10 seconds during the film!

    Still one of the all time classic British movies.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    MaxPB said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just catching up on the threads.

    Despite living in London and working in the City I have never taken cocaine or even been offered it. I’ve read enough emails/chats from my “victims” to know how widespread this is. It seems like the most colossal waste of money to me. There are so many nicer natural ways of getting a high and feeling good.

    Obviously, now I will never be able to stand for Tory party leader. But we all have our crosses to bear ..... :(

    It would be a brave stupid person indeed to offer the head of compliance a line of coke!
    Even stupider to do so to the Head of Investigations!

    Mind you, never ever underestimate the stupidity of far too many in the City.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    The weather forecast tomorrow in London is 12C. Which is about right for mid June, as a minimum.

    Except, this is the maximum. TWELVE DEGREES.

    Help. 12 bloody degrees Celsius AND it is gonna piss down.

    I. Want. To. Emigrate.

    Australia by any chance?
    I'm thinking the Alentejo. Or Andalucia. And I am thinking quite seriously.
    Andalucia is great. It's been a while since I visited but they had the right idea about tapa, a delicious free accompaniment to sipping ice cold Alhambra Reserva on a terrace.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:

    Interestingly, or not, some weather geeks think tomorrow could be a modest record.

    In terms of max, it will likely be the coldest June day in London since the Coronation, and possibly since 1903.

    Ha! Where's yer global warming now? :lol:
    There is a theory - a subset of the overall global warming theory - which says climate change will mean cold melting Arctic ice flooding south, interrupting the Gulf Stream, even destroying it, which will give Britain (and the rest of north and west Europe) the climate it SHOULD have, in respect of its latitude: and that is the climate of Labrador, Canada.

    Fantastic.

    The Scots will come south.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:
    Wasn’t she supposed to be twinning with Boris?
    I suspect that fell apart when he realised he has enough support from leavers and remainers that he didn't need her.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    Scott_P said:
    Jerry Hunt's is a magical world
    Full of strippers and long-legged girls
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    edited June 2019
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Just catching up on the threads.

    Despite living in London and working in the City I have never taken cocaine or even been offered it. I’ve read enough emails/chats from my “victims” to know how widespread this is. It seems like the most colossal waste of money to me. There are so many nicer natural ways of getting a high and feeling good.

    Obviously, now I will never be able to stand for Tory party leader. But we all have our crosses to bear ..... :(

    Given your job they were probably too scared to offer you drugs.
    I’m sure. I was more likely to have garlic waved at me.
    Why? Were you a stakeholder?
    😂
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Interestingly, or not, some weather geeks think tomorrow could be a modest record.

    In terms of max, it will likely be the coldest June day in London since the Coronation, and possibly since 1903.

    Ha! Where's yer global warming now? :lol:
    There is a theory - a subset of the overall global warming theory - which says climate change will mean cold melting Arctic ice flooding south, interrupting the Gulf Stream, even destroying it, which will give Britain (and the rest of north and west Europe) the climate it SHOULD have, in respect of its latitude: and that is the climate of Labrador, Canada.

    Fantastic.

    The Scots will come south.
    They only ever got as far as Derby. You're safe enough in Richmond.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    The weather forecast tomorrow in London is 12C. Which is about right for mid June, as a minimum.

    Except, this is the maximum. TWELVE DEGREES.

    Help. 12 bloody degrees Celsius AND it is gonna piss down.

    I. Want. To. Emigrate.

    Australia by any chance?
    I'm thinking the Alentejo. Or Andalucia. And I am thinking quite seriously.
    Andalucia is great. It's been a while since I visited but they had the right idea about tapa, a delicious free accompaniment to sipping ice cold Alhambra Reserva on a terrace.
    Have you head the tale of the origins of tapas? They were literally "tops" - little slices of bread you put over the top of your beer or wine bottle, to keep out the flies.

    Then people started eating them. Then people started putting fun stuff on them. And so tapas were born. No idea if it is true. I quite like the story.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    AndyJS said:

    Byronic said:

    The weather forecast tomorrow in London is 12C. Which is about right for mid June, as a minimum.

    Except, this is the maximum. TWELVE DEGREES.

    Help. 12 bloody degrees Celsius AND it is gonna piss down.

    I. Want. To. Emigrate.

    Not great for the Cricket World Cup, which I think could be washed out over the next few days.
    Yeah, I think so. Doomed. What will they do?
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Scott_P said:
    Jerry Hunt's is a magical world
    Full of strippers and long-legged girls

    If that's what he offers people, he'll be a shoo-in for PM.

    Well, at least from 50% of the voters...

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    edited June 2019

    Scott_P said:
    Jerry Hunt's is a magical world
    Full of strippers and long-legged girls
    In touch with the ground
    I'm on the Hunt down after you
    Smell like I sound I'm lost in a crowd
    And I'm hungry like the wolf
    Straddle the line in discord and rhyme
    I'm on the Hunt down after you
    Mouth is alive with juices like wine
    And I'm hungry like the wolf
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Big Maggie T just got a mention on Love Island :)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    Byronic said:

    The weather forecast tomorrow in London is 12C. Which is about right for mid June, as a minimum.

    Except, this is the maximum. TWELVE DEGREES.

    Help. 12 bloody degrees Celsius AND it is gonna piss down.

    I. Want. To. Emigrate.

    Come to the sandpit. We’re expecting 45°C and 70% humidity in Dubai tomorrow. Lovely*!




    *if you’re a camel. If you’re a human, it’s close to unbearable.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    I see that Macron has pointed out to Tory leadership hopefuls what a sovereign debt default is and what it means for a country.

    Do you think that when Boris and Michael and Jeremy and co have stopped stabbing each other in the front and back they might focus on what matters to the country?

    Or is that a pathetically old-fashioned hope?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    Big Maggie T just got a mention on Love Island :)

    Was it "we need her to be PM". If it wasn't then they are wromg.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856
    I can't believe those comments by Barry Gardiner - does Labour really want to go there? Making a moral equivalence between drug use and racism?

    I suspect they don't but that's the problem with politics nowadays. Nobody seems to be thinking beyond the end of their nose.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Cyclefree said:

    I see that Macron has pointed out to Tory leadership hopefuls what a sovereign debt default is and what it means for a country.

    Do you think that when Boris and Michael and Jeremy and co have stopped stabbing each other in the front and back they might focus on what matters to the country?

    Or is that a pathetically old-fashioned hope?


    It's only a debt if you actually owe it.

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856
    I've just realised that wasn't the best turn of phrase. Please forgive me.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    The weather forecast tomorrow in London is 12C. Which is about right for mid June, as a minimum.

    Except, this is the maximum. TWELVE DEGREES.

    Help. 12 bloody degrees Celsius AND it is gonna piss down.

    I. Want. To. Emigrate.

    Australia by any chance?
    I'm thinking the Alentejo. Or Andalucia. And I am thinking quite seriously.
    Andalucia is great. It's been a while since I visited but they had the right idea about tapa, a delicious free accompaniment to sipping ice cold Alhambra Reserva on a terrace.
    Have you head the tale of the origins of tapas? They were literally "tops" - little slices of bread you put over the top of your beer or wine bottle, to keep out the flies.

    Then people started eating them. Then people started putting fun stuff on them. And so tapas were born. No idea if it is true. I quite like the story.
    I think I'd heard that one.
    There's quite a list on Wiki, being a cynical **** I'm attracted to 'tavern owners from Castile-La Mancha found out that the strong taste and smell of mature cheese could help disguise that of bad wine, thus "covering" it, and started offering free cheese when serving cheap wine'.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Byronic said:

    AndyJS said:

    Byronic said:

    The weather forecast tomorrow in London is 12C. Which is about right for mid June, as a minimum.

    Except, this is the maximum. TWELVE DEGREES.

    Help. 12 bloody degrees Celsius AND it is gonna piss down.

    I. Want. To. Emigrate.

    Not great for the Cricket World Cup, which I think could be washed out over the next few days.
    Yeah, I think so. Doomed. What will they do?
    Well, at least it stops arguments over the bloody bails not falling off.

    Good night.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    nunuone said:
    Not in Australia
    The Australian pollsters totally overestimated Labor in Queensland this year which is why they called the election wrong
    You think the Australian pollsters totally overestimating Lablur demonstrates a liberal bias?

    Want to think about that for two seconds?
    Australia's Liberal Party is a conservative party now not a liberal one (certainly post Turnbull)
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Sandpit said:

    Byronic said:

    The weather forecast tomorrow in London is 12C. Which is about right for mid June, as a minimum.

    Except, this is the maximum. TWELVE DEGREES.

    Help. 12 bloody degrees Celsius AND it is gonna piss down.

    I. Want. To. Emigrate.

    Come to the sandpit. We’re expecting 45°C and 70% humidity in Dubai tomorrow. Lovely*!




    *if you’re a camel. If you’re a human, it’s close to unbearable.
    Yeah, I am aware there are hot climates which are just TOO hot.

    The worst I have encountered was desertified northern Ethiopia, where it didn't dip below 30C..... AT NIGHT.

    And the people "lived" in stifling mud huts, with no fans, no breeze, no nothing, certainly no air con. It was just hideous. I do not understand how anyone could endure it. Or why they endured it.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    I've just realised that wasn't the best turn of phrase. Please forgive me.


    No need to apologise; that was very good.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited June 2019
    Byronic said:

    The weather forecast tomorrow in London is 12C. Which is about right for mid June, as a minimum.

    Except, this is the maximum. TWELVE DEGREES.

    Help. 12 bloody degrees Celsius AND it is gonna piss down.

    I. Want. To. Emigrate.

    We had some pretty hot days in May so cannot complain too much and personally I prefer 12 degrees to anything over 25.

    If you want a hot summer guaranteed move to Spain, Greece, Italy, Australia, the south of France or Florida or if you really want to fry, North Africa and the Middle East
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884

    NEW THREAD

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    I see that Macron has pointed out to Tory leadership hopefuls what a sovereign debt default is and what it means for a country.

    Do you think that when Boris and Michael and Jeremy and co have stopped stabbing each other in the front and back they might focus on what matters to the country?

    Or is that a pathetically old-fashioned hope?


    It's only a debt if you actually owe it.

    Lovely: a clean Brexit will start with Britain being taken to court for not paying her debts.

    What do you think that will do to Britain’s credit rating, bearing in mind the size of the debt and deficit we have to finance every single day?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Cyclefree said:

    I see that Macron has pointed out to Tory leadership hopefuls what a sovereign debt default is and what it means for a country.

    Do you think that when Boris and Michael and Jeremy and co have stopped stabbing each other in the front and back they might focus on what matters to the country?

    Or is that a pathetically old-fashioned hope?

    This would be a contractual dispute, not a sovereign debt default. That would require the government to miss interest repayments on Gilts or not be able to redeem any that come due.

    In a no deal scenario we'd be liable for half of the money and the EU would be able to take the government to court over that sum and win. The membership fees are nothing more than a promissory note as part of our membership, should the latter cease the former goes with it, how can they seek to enforce membership fees on a non-member.

    I'm not saying it is a road we should go down, but the idea that not paying would be the same a a debt default is absolutely wrong and the same kind of scaremongering rubbish from the EU that means people don't believe anything they say.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    Alistair said:

    Fuck it, even though I cannot explain Leadsom's price I've decided it is because absolute fucking idiots are betting on her. I have entered the great "Laying Leadsom" game. This is what I should have done with Jeb Bush but got scared off.

    Doubtless others will have played this better and/or in larger size but here's my book to the nearest tenner.

    230 Johnson
    450 Hunt
    -1880 Leadsom
    320 Gove
    130 Stewart
    530 Javid
    190 Corbyn (PM Market if the Tory leader somehow doesn't become PM)
    425 Raab
    1930 odd on Mcvey (Not going to sell that at 380)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    This thread has

    collapsed

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    H
    MaxPB said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I see that Macron has pointed out to Tory leadership hopefuls what a sovereign debt default is and what it means for a country.

    Do you think that when Boris and Michael and Jeremy and co have stopped stabbing each other in the front and back they might focus on what matters to the country?

    Or is that a pathetically old-fashioned hope?

    This would be a contractual dispute, not a sovereign debt default. That would require the government to miss interest repayments on Gilts or not be able to redeem any that come due.

    In a no deal scenario we'd be liable for half of the money and the EU would be able to take the government to court over that sum and win. The membership fees are nothing more than a promissory note as part of our membership, should the latter cease the former goes with it, how can they seek to enforce membership fees on a non-member.

    I'm not saying it is a road we should go down, but the idea that not paying would be the same a a debt default is absolutely wrong and the same kind of scaremongering rubbish from the EU that means people don't believe anything they say.
    You’re failing to see the wood for the trees, I’m afraid.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_P said:
    Wasn’t she supposed to be twinning with Boris?
    I suspect that fell apart when he realised he has enough support from leavers and remainers that he didn't need her.
    When will the membership cotton on to the fact that Boris is getting a lot of support from remainers?
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Cyclefree said:

    I see that Macron has pointed out to Tory leadership hopefuls what a sovereign debt default is and what it means for a country.

    Do you think that when Boris and Michael and Jeremy and co have stopped stabbing each other in the front and back they might focus on what matters to the country?

    Or is that a pathetically old-fashioned hope?

    It's bollocks tho. Macron might wish to be the Jupiterian emperor of the world, but, despite that, he does not personally get to decide what constitutes a sovereign debt default.

    Macron is increasingly comical and cack-handed. His unwarranted arrogance has just collapsed the merge of Fiat Chrysler and Renault. He was meant to be the French Thatcher. So far he is a disappointing mix of Mitterand distracted by his mistress, and Chirac at the onset of his dementia.

    https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/emmanuel-macron-gets-lesson-capitalism-090142794.html
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I see that Macron has pointed out to Tory leadership hopefuls what a sovereign debt default is and what it means for a country.

    Do you think that when Boris and Michael and Jeremy and co have stopped stabbing each other in the front and back they might focus on what matters to the country?

    Or is that a pathetically old-fashioned hope?


    It's only a debt if you actually owe it.

    Lovely: a clean Brexit will start with Britain being taken to court for not paying her debts.

    What do you think that will do to Britain’s credit rating, bearing in mind the size of the debt and deficit we have to finance every single day?
    It's not a debt. Both sides recognise it's not a debt. It's continued membership dues in the transition period and the nation's share of pension liabilities wrt British people who have worked for the EU. Neither are considered a debt.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856
    cyclefree - I think you are wrong on this. What money has the EU lent to Britain that needs to be repaid?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Cyclefree said:

    H

    MaxPB said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I see that Macron has pointed out to Tory leadership hopefuls what a sovereign debt default is and what it means for a country.

    Do you think that when Boris and Michael and Jeremy and co have stopped stabbing each other in the front and back they might focus on what matters to the country?

    Or is that a pathetically old-fashioned hope?

    This would be a contractual dispute, not a sovereign debt default. That would require the government to miss interest repayments on Gilts or not be able to redeem any that come due.

    In a no deal scenario we'd be liable for half of the money and the EU would be able to take the government to court over that sum and win. The membership fees are nothing more than a promissory note as part of our membership, should the latter cease the former goes with it, how can they seek to enforce membership fees on a non-member.

    I'm not saying it is a road we should go down, but the idea that not paying would be the same a a debt default is absolutely wrong and the same kind of scaremongering rubbish from the EU that means people don't believe anything they say.
    You’re failing to see the wood for the trees, I’m afraid.
    I'm not, I think you are and you're getting caught up in a bunch of useless rhetoric from both sides. The markets will honestly give no fucks if the UK and EU enter into a contract resolution process over the exit bill. Nobody on their right mind believes that not paying the full £39bn asked is going to have even the slightest effect on the ability or willingness to pay interest on Gilts.

    As I've said before a lot, there are going to be lot of unlikely winners and losers from brexit, and that goes for outcomes too.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,856
    It's funny how many people actually want to be the next prime minister. They used to call managing the England football team the impossible job. Leading Britain is surely the impossible job now. How is someone going to be able to become Tory leader and not then look like a complete idiot shortly after. You can only become leader by promising proper Brexit right away but we aren't remotely well prepared for that. We all know that there will be no serious renegotiation of the deal but perhaps Boris will gets the right wing press to strike fear into the heart of Brussels.
This discussion has been closed.