> @Nigel_Foremain said: > > @Roger said: > > > @GIN1138 said: > > > > @Scott_P said: > > > > https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1133360426048217088 > > > > > > Good for Boris for getting someone who knows what they are doing to run the social media campaign. > > > > The dream team! > > > > AKA The Sleaze Balls > > I guess that is Paul Staines the kindred spirit of the egotist Boris Johnson, also the same Paul Staines who is co-founder of a company that according to wiki is an advisor to the Russian Embassy on social media. > > Nice company these Brexiteers keep. So much for them being patriots!
I presume you are talking about MessageSpace...which was also co-founded by Jag Singh a Labour supporter, who behind LabourHome and worked with Hillary Clinton.
My understanding is it is Jag Singh who has the Russian connections, as he worked for President Medvedev and a fluent Russian speaker.
> @Theuniondivvie said: > > @justin124 said: > > Westminster will not agree to such a Referendum for quite some years. Sturgeon doubtless knows that with her statement yesterday simply being a means to make it a live issue at the 2021 Holyrood elections. > > > I suppose moving from 'We'd still win it but we're not going to allow you a referendum cos reasons' to 'We're not going to allow you a referendum cos we'd lose it' is progress of a sort.
That is a non sequitur. I am not persuaded that Sturgeon believes she would win such a vote - but is happy to proceed with this charade confident it will be blocked.
Really? If I could get children to do what I want just by snapping a biscuit in half, my life would be much easier. Is that where I've been going wrong?
> @justin124 said: > > @ydoethur said: > > Do you think Jeremy Corbyn voted Labour in the 2000 London mayoral election? > > Because I don't. Like many Labour Party members he voted for Ken. But the leadership at the time was sensible enough to realise that it would be self-defeating and aggravate division to move against members who did not support the party at that election. > > > > Pity in a way. Just think how much better off Labour would be now if Blair had acted to eradicate the hard left for good and all. > > I have no doubt that had he declared his support for Livingstone , he would have been expelled.
See it is going ever so well for labour in Scotland Justin !!!!
> @justin124 said: > > @Nigel_Foremain said: > > > @Sean_F said: > > > > > > Shed no tear for Campbell. He's a fascinating man, but his impact on Labour has been malign. And, advocating that people vote against your own party is a no no. > > > > Voting against your own party leader is OK though apparently, according to many Brexit obsessives. > > Being a rebel in Parliament is not the same as voting for another party in an election. The latter is comparable to an MP voting against the Whip on a VNOC.
I think that is irrational nonsense. If however it is accepted, I hope that all Tory members are sent a letter asking if they will declare if they voted for the Faragist Party, and that investigations are undertaken to see who has made sympathetic noises in favour, or have been muttering Heil El Nige after too many glasses of port.
> @FrancisUrquhart said: > > @Nigel_Foremain said: > > > @Roger said: > > > > @GIN1138 said: > > > > > @Scott_P said: > > > > > https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1133360426048217088 > > > > > > > > Good for Boris for getting someone who knows what they are doing to run the social media campaign. > > > > > > The dream team! > > > > > > AKA The Sleaze Balls > > > > I guess that is Paul Staines the kindred spirit of the egotist Boris Johnson, also the same Paul Staines who is co-founder of a company that according to wiki is an advisor to the Russian Embassy on social media. > > > > Nice company these Brexiteers keep. So much for them being patriots! > > I presume you are talking about MessageSpace...which was also co-founded by Jag Singh a Labour supporter, who behind LabourHome and worked with Hillary Clinton. > > My understanding is it is Jag Singh who has the Russian connections, as he worked for President Medvedev and a fluent Russian speaker.
Why earth do the Russians need to get social media advice from us?
Really? If I could get children to do what I want just by snapping a biscuit in half, my life would be much easier. Is that where I've been going wrong?
> Somebody should try making a twitter account with a wildcard name like * or % or something and tweet that you voted LibDem, see if you can make them auto-exclude everybody in the database. At this point I reckon throwing out everybody in the Labour Party and starting again from scratch is the only way to fix it.
>
> Do you reckon they’d accept as a name DELETE FROM MEMBERS ?
That does seem to stand up to some scrutiny, particularly when you compare to the other incompetents and numpties in the race. It would be nice to think the Tory Party got some sanity back and actually voted for someone who has actually proved themselves.
But he's correct. I said earlier that Michael Gove is the only one of them capable of delivering Brexit. Jeremy Hunt would be next. The rest? Hopeless.
Civil servants love Michael Gove. He's hard working, diligent with his brief, listens to them (no, really) and gives highly intelligent and considered responses.
I don't think the Tories will elect him but he's by far the most capable.
Really? If I could get children to do what I want just by snapping a biscuit in half, my life would be much easier. Is that where I've been going wrong?
You haven’t tried balancing it on their nose?
That would merely put the seal on my reputation for eccentricity.
> @Mysticrose said: > > @williamglenn said: > > https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1133376273055703040 > > But he's correct. I said earlier that Michael Gove is the only one of them capable of delivering Brexit. Jeremy Hunt would be next. The rest? Hopeless. > > Civil servants love Michael Gove. He's hard working, diligent with his brief, listens to them (no, really) and gives highly intelligent and considered responses. > > I don't think the Tories will elect him but he's by far the most capable.
> @oxfordsimon said: > > But he should have kept quiet. He just can't help himself. -------------
I imagine he felt he had to explain to his American audience why he wasn't standing and to reassure them that there were some candidates who at least had a fraction of his ability.
> But he should have kept quiet. He just can't help himself.
-------------
I imagine he felt he had to explain to his American audience why he wasn't standing and to reassure them that there were some candidates who at least had a fraction of his ability.
> @Sean_F said: > > @Pulpstar said: > > Another day, another argument about BF rules. > > > > > > > > I assume the LD market hasn't settled because LD got >20% GB (widely reported) and <20% UK (not much reported). Rules clearly say UK but who knows?? > > > > > > > > Now at 1.35 if you're feeling confident... > > > > Votes Lib Dem > > Northern Ireland 577275 0 > > North West 1715735 297507 > > North East 619854 104330 > > West Mids 1279904 219982 > > East Mids 1183227 203989 > > Eastern 1598455 361563 > > South West 1676173 385095 > > South East 2538945 653743 > > Yorkshire 1289277 200180 > > Wales 836195 113885 > > Scotland 1571226 218285 > > London 2241681 608725 > > > > For 19.6% I make it going through the areas by hand > > I note the meme going round showing pro-Brexit parties winning 35% and anti-Brexit parties 40%. That's definitely a dodgy bar-chart. Since when did the Tories cease to be pro-Brexit? I voted for them on that basis.
Opinion polls were showing tories voting tory in the euros about 50/50 split between remain and leave. I think it is fair to see the tory vote in the euros at least as different to the Brexit/UKIP group
> @Morris_Dancer said: > Miss Rose, because the Speaker is meant to be objective regarding the Commons and steer well clear of wading into party political matters.
Don't you think that at this critical juncture in British history, with the shitshower in the House of Commons, that it's good a man of Bercow's position expresses an opinion? I certainly do.
He's one of the very few to come out of Brexit with distinction.
> > I assume the LD market hasn't settled because LD got >20% GB (widely reported) and <20% UK (not much reported). Rules clearly say UK but who knows??
> >
> >
> >
> > Now at 1.35 if you're feeling confident...
> >
> > Votes Lib Dem
> > Northern Ireland 577275 0
> > North West 1715735 297507
> > North East 619854 104330
> > West Mids 1279904 219982
> > East Mids 1183227 203989
> > Eastern 1598455 361563
> > South West 1676173 385095
> > South East 2538945 653743
> > Yorkshire 1289277 200180
> > Wales 836195 113885
> > Scotland 1571226 218285
> > London 2241681 608725
> >
> > For 19.6% I make it going through the areas by hand
>
> I note the meme going round showing pro-Brexit parties winning 35% and anti-Brexit parties 40%. That's definitely a dodgy bar-chart. Since when did the Tories cease to be pro-Brexit? I voted for them on that basis.
Opinion polls were showing tories voting tory in the euros about 50/50 split between remain and leave. I think it is fair to see the tory vote in the euros at least as different to the Brexit/UKIP group
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @justin124 said: > > > @ydoethur said: > > > Do you think Jeremy Corbyn voted Labour in the 2000 London mayoral election? > > > Because I don't. Like many Labour Party members he voted for Ken. But the leadership at the time was sensible enough to realise that it would be self-defeating and aggravate division to move against members who did not support the party at that election. > > > > > > Pity in a way. Just think how much better off Labour would be now if Blair had acted to eradicate the hard left for good and all. > > > > I have no doubt that had he declared his support for Livingstone , he would have been expelled. > > See it is going ever so well for labour in Scotland Justin !!!!
That has been true for years. Both Labour and the Tories had abysmal results there last week. Interesting too that the SNP only managed 37.7% - barely changed from 2017 GE - despite receiving protest votes along with LibDems, Greens and Brexit Party. I feel they will struggle to reach 35% in a Westminster election with both major parties performing much more strongly. I stick to my view that Labour's vote share in Scotland next time will be largely determined by what happens across GB as a whole.
> @rottenborough said: > > @FrancisUrquhart said: > > > @Nigel_Foremain said: > > > > @Roger said: > > > > > @GIN1138 said: > > > > > > @Scott_P said: > > > > > > https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1133360426048217088 > > > > > > > > > > Good for Boris for getting someone who knows what they are doing to run the social media campaign. > > > > > > > > The dream team! > > > > > > > > AKA The Sleaze Balls > > > > > > I guess that is Paul Staines the kindred spirit of the egotist Boris Johnson, also the same Paul Staines who is co-founder of a company that according to wiki is an advisor to the Russian Embassy on social media. > > > > > > Nice company these Brexiteers keep. So much for them being patriots! > > > > I presume you are talking about MessageSpace...which was also co-founded by Jag Singh a Labour supporter, who behind LabourHome and worked with Hillary Clinton. > > > > My understanding is it is Jag Singh who has the Russian connections, as he worked for President Medvedev and a fluent Russian speaker. > > Why earth do the Russians need to get social media advice from us?
> @geoffw said: > Meanwhile, while an almost empty Holyrood discusses whether children can be smacked or not: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48431820 > > Wasn't there a case about 10 years ago involving French parents who chastised their unruly offspring in the traditional manner and were brought back from France to face Scottish justice?
> > When you say "looking forward", presumably you mean it's dawned on you that it's inevitable, and that you'll lose. > > Westminster will not agree to such a Referendum for quite some years. Sturgeon doubtless knows that with her statement yesterday simply being a means to make it a live issue at the 2021 Holyrood elections.
It's not inevitable and post Brexit it will be even harder for the Nats to win.
Thats why frit Nicla isn't keen on having one anytime soon.
Civil servants love Michael Gove. He's hard working, diligent with his brief, listens to them (no, really) and gives highly intelligent and considered responses.
Which, given the extraordinarily low quality, ignorance and jealousy of civil servants at the DfE, is one reason those teachers like me who welcomed him so enthusiastically ended up hating him so much.
Admittedly though he wasn't responsible for the most crass act of going native - the appointment of a failed Civil Servant to head up OFSTED. He did get somebody with vast experience to do that in Wilshaw, even if it was a mixed success.
Miss Rose, it is precisely at this sort of moment that those who are* objective should be seen as such, otherwise they may be deemed to have illegitimately influenced things they ought not, undermining the mandate of a decision, stoking more grievance, and deepening/prolonging division.
Besides, even from a partisan pro-Remain perspective it's dumb. Bercow approving of candidates will do them more harm than good.
> @noneoftheabove said: > > @Sean_F said: > > > @Pulpstar said: > > > Another day, another argument about BF rules. > > > > > > > > > > > > I assume the LD market hasn't settled because LD got >20% GB (widely reported) and <20% UK (not much reported). Rules clearly say UK but who knows?? > > > > > > > > > > > > Now at 1.35 if you're feeling confident... > > > > > > Votes Lib Dem > > > Northern Ireland 577275 0 > > > North West 1715735 297507 > > > North East 619854 104330 > > > West Mids 1279904 219982 > > > East Mids 1183227 203989 > > > Eastern 1598455 361563 > > > South West 1676173 385095 > > > South East 2538945 653743 > > > Yorkshire 1289277 200180 > > > Wales 836195 113885 > > > Scotland 1571226 218285 > > > London 2241681 608725 > > > > > > For 19.6% I make it going through the areas by hand > > > > I note the meme going round showing pro-Brexit parties winning 35% and anti-Brexit parties 40%. That's definitely a dodgy bar-chart. Since when did the Tories cease to be pro-Brexit? I voted for them on that basis. > > Opinion polls were showing tories voting tory in the euros about 50/50 split between remain and leave. I think it is fair to see the tory vote in the euros at least as different to the Brexit/UKIP group
Sure, but there are people who vote SNP, Plaid, Green and Lib Dem who support Leave. The Conservatives are certainly pro-Brexit.
It would be fair to say that more people voted for Remain parties than for No Deal Brexit parties.
Campbell disclosed only after voting closed that he had voted LD in one election. He also disclosed that he had voted Labour in 30 odd years of elections and intended to vote Labour in future. There is a world of difference between that and Heseltine's action in supporting the LDs, which was disclosed before the vote and therefore encouraged others to also vote LD last week.
Nonetheless, I would expect nothing less of a hypocrite such as Corbyn.
> @TGOHF said: > > It's not inevitable and post Brexit it will be even harder for the Nats to win. > ---------
Why? Either Brexit will be soft, in which case EU membership will be "taking back control", or Brexit will be hard, in which case EU membership will be a lifeboat.
Campbell disclosed only after voting closed that he had voted LD in one election. He also disclosed that he had voted Labour in 30 odd years of elections and intended to vote Labour in future. There is a world of difference between that and Heseltine's action in supporting the LDs, which was disclosed before the vote and therefore encouraged others to also vote LD last week.
Nonetheless, I would expect nothing less of a hypocrite such as Corbyn.
> @justin124 said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > @justin124 said: > > > > @ydoethur said: > > > > Do you think Jeremy Corbyn voted Labour in the 2000 London mayoral election? > > > > Because I don't. Like many Labour Party members he voted for Ken. But the leadership at the time was sensible enough to realise that it would be self-defeating and aggravate division to move against members who did not support the party at that election. > > > > > > > > Pity in a way. Just think how much better off Labour would be now if Blair had acted to eradicate the hard left for good and all. > > > > > > I have no doubt that had he declared his support for Livingstone , he would have been expelled. > > > > See it is going ever so well for labour in Scotland Justin !!!! > > That has been true for years. Both Labour and the Tories had abysmal results there last week. Interesting too that the SNP only managed 37.7% - barely changed from 2017 GE - despite receiving protest votes along with LibDems, Greens and Brexit Party. I feel they will struggle to reach 35% in a Westminster election with both major parties performing much more strongly. I stick to my view that Labour's vote share in Scotland next time will be largely determined by what happens across GB as a whole.
Labour was 5th last week and is facing wipeout in Scotland
The Reith Lecture by Jonathan Sumption. A Judge's view on why the Referenum was the wrong method to sort out the UK's issues with the EU and why the only way to rescue ourselves from the mistake is probably another referendum.
Long but well argued for those with the time and patience. Not one for the Jeremy Kyle/Guido set
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @justin124 said: > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > @justin124 said: > > > > > @ydoethur said: > > > > > Do you think Jeremy Corbyn voted Labour in the 2000 London mayoral election? > > > > > Because I don't. Like many Labour Party members he voted for Ken. But the leadership at the time was sensible enough to realise that it would be self-defeating and aggravate division to move against members who did not support the party at that election. > > > > > > > > > > Pity in a way. Just think how much better off Labour would be now if Blair had acted to eradicate the hard left for good and all. > > > > > > > > I have no doubt that had he declared his support for Livingstone , he would have been expelled. > > > > > > See it is going ever so well for labour in Scotland Justin !!!! > > > > That has been true for years. Both Labour and the Tories had abysmal results there last week. Interesting too that the SNP only managed 37.7% - barely changed from 2017 GE - despite receiving protest votes along with LibDems, Greens and Brexit Party. I feel they will struggle to reach 35% in a Westminster election with both major parties performing much more strongly. I stick to my view that Labour's vote share in Scotland next time will be largely determined by what happens across GB as a whole. > > Labour was 5th last week and is facing wipeout in Scotland
Compared with the 2017 GE Labour dropped 18% in Scotland - as did the Tories. Across GB as a whole Labour dropped 26% with rhe Tories falling 33%.
> @RobD said: > On thread. > > > > Campbell disclosed only after voting closed that he had voted LD in one election. He also disclosed that he had voted Labour in 30 odd years of elections and intended to vote Labour in future. There is a world of difference between that and Heseltine's action in supporting the LDs, which was disclosed before the vote and therefore encouraged others to also vote LD last week. > > > > Nonetheless, I would expect nothing less of a hypocrite such as Corbyn. > > Hasn’t Heseltine already been booted out?
He has had the Whip suspended - but not been expelled.
Meanwhile, while an almost empty Holyrood discusses whether children can be smacked or not: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48431820 Wasn't there a case about 10 years ago involving French parents who chastised their unruly offspring in the traditional manner and were brought back from France to face Scottish justice?
> @justin124 said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > @justin124 said: > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > > @justin124 said: > > > > > > @ydoethur said: > > > > > > Do you think Jeremy Corbyn voted Labour in the 2000 London mayoral election? > > > > > > Because I don't. Like many Labour Party members he voted for Ken. But the leadership at the time was sensible enough to realise that it would be self-defeating and aggravate division to move against members who did not support the party at that election. > > > > > > > > > > > > Pity in a way. Just think how much better off Labour would be now if Blair had acted to eradicate the hard left for good and all. > > > > > > > > > > I have no doubt that had he declared his support for Livingstone , he would have been expelled. > > > > > > > > See it is going ever so well for labour in Scotland Justin !!!! > > > > > > That has been true for years. Both Labour and the Tories had abysmal results there last week. Interesting too that the SNP only managed 37.7% - barely changed from 2017 GE - despite receiving protest votes along with LibDems, Greens and Brexit Party. I feel they will struggle to reach 35% in a Westminster election with both major parties performing much more strongly. I stick to my view that Labour's vote share in Scotland next time will be largely determined by what happens across GB as a whole. > > > > Labour was 5th last week and is facing wipeout in Scotland > > Compared with the 2017 GE Labour dropped 18% in Scotland - as did the Tories. Across GB as a whole Labour dropped 26% with rhe Tories falling 33%.
Justin - you are in complete denial over labour in Scotland
> @Wulfrun_Phil said: > On thread. > > Campbell disclosed only after voting closed that he had voted LD in one election. He also disclosed that he had voted Labour in 30 odd years of elections and intended to vote Labour in future. There is a world of difference between that and Heseltine's action in supporting the LDs, which was disclosed before the vote and therefore encouraged others to also vote LD last week. > > Nonetheless, I would expect nothing less of a hypocrite such as Corbyn.
Not really - it revealed that he had helped the LDs beat Labour in London. He deserved to be expelled.
> @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > @justin124 said: > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > @justin124 said: > > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > > > @justin124 said: > > > > > > > @ydoethur said: > > > > > > > Do you think Jeremy Corbyn voted Labour in the 2000 London mayoral election? > > > > > > > Because I don't. Like many Labour Party members he voted for Ken. But the leadership at the time was sensible enough to realise that it would be self-defeating and aggravate division to move against members who did not support the party at that election. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pity in a way. Just think how much better off Labour would be now if Blair had acted to eradicate the hard left for good and all. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no doubt that had he declared his support for Livingstone , he would have been expelled. > > > > > > > > > > See it is going ever so well for labour in Scotland Justin !!!! > > > > > > > > That has been true for years. Both Labour and the Tories had abysmal results there last week. Interesting too that the SNP only managed 37.7% - barely changed from 2017 GE - despite receiving protest votes along with LibDems, Greens and Brexit Party. I feel they will struggle to reach 35% in a Westminster election with both major parties performing much more strongly. I stick to my view that Labour's vote share in Scotland next time will be largely determined by what happens across GB as a whole. > > > > > > Labour was 5th last week and is facing wipeout in Scotland > > > > Compared with the 2017 GE Labour dropped 18% in Scotland - as did the Tories. Across GB as a whole Labour dropped 26% with rhe Tories falling 33%. > > Justin - you are in complete denial over labour in Scotland
I have presented you with several facts . Why not try addressing them?
> @justin124 said: >That has been true for years. Both Labour and the Tories had abysmal results there last week. Interesting too that the SNP only managed 37.7% - barely changed from 2017 GE - despite receiving protest votes along with LibDems, Greens and Brexit Party. I feel they will struggle to reach 35% in a Westminster election with both major parties performing much more strongly. I stick to my view that Labour's vote share in Scotland next time will be largely determined by what happens across GB as a whole.
If you're directly comparing Euro results to the GE, 2017 GE SLab - 27.1%, Euro 2019 - 9.3%. If you think that's a protest vote blip, well hello Dr Pangloss.
Your other oft repeated line is that polls always over estimate the SNP. The last Scotland Euro poll in May had them on 38%, SLab on 16% & SCons on 11%. Which party was getting overestimated there d'ye think?
It does make you wonder if this could snowball into many prominent labour members declaring they voted against labour in the EU's thereby challenging Corbyn to sack them and increasing the comparision between this and the way Corbyn deals with anti semitism in the labour party
> @geoffw said: > > @geoffw said: > > > > @williamglenn said: > > > > > > > twitter.com/business/status/1133312897650704385 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So much for democracy. I thought the leader of the biggest group in the EU Parliament became the leader? > > > > > > This is for Juncker's job. > > > > Yes, and he was elected as the spitzenkandidat for the EPP group. Barnier is no group's spitzenkandidat. > > Ah ok.
> @justin124 said: > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > @justin124 said: > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > > @justin124 said: > > > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said: > > > > > > > @justin124 said: > > > > > > > > @ydoethur said: > > > > > > > > Do you think Jeremy Corbyn voted Labour in the 2000 London mayoral election? > > > > > > > > Because I don't. Like many Labour Party members he voted for Ken. But the leadership at the time was sensible enough to realise that it would be self-defeating and aggravate division to move against members who did not support the party at that election. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Pity in a way. Just think how much better off Labour would be now if Blair had acted to eradicate the hard left for good and all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have no doubt that had he declared his support for Livingstone , he would have been expelled. > > > > > > > > > > > > See it is going ever so well for labour in Scotland Justin !!!! > > > > > > > > > > That has been true for years. Both Labour and the Tories had abysmal results there last week. Interesting too that the SNP only managed 37.7% - barely changed from 2017 GE - despite receiving protest votes along with LibDems, Greens and Brexit Party. I feel they will struggle to reach 35% in a Westminster election with both major parties performing much more strongly. I stick to my view that Labour's vote share in Scotland next time will be largely determined by what happens across GB as a whole. > > > > > > > > Labour was 5th last week and is facing wipeout in Scotland > > > > > > Compared with the 2017 GE Labour dropped 18% in Scotland - as did the Tories. Across GB as a whole Labour dropped 26% with rhe Tories falling 33%. > > > > Justin - you are in complete denial over labour in Scotland > > I have presented you with several facts . Why not try addressing them?
You live in your own world of delusion as far as Scotland is concerned
> @DavidL said: > > @geoffw said: > > Meanwhile, while an almost empty Holyrood discusses whether children can be smacked or not: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48431820 > > > > Wasn't there a case about 10 years ago involving French parents who chastised their unruly offspring in the traditional manner and were brought back from France to face Scottish justice? > > Not aware of that but wouldn't be too surprised.
Mr L
was in your neck of the woods at the weekend. Enjoyed the V&A in Dundee and St Andrews, first time Id been there . Also hadnt realised just how big fruit farming was in Tayside. The poly tuinnels reminded me of parts of Spain, Unfortunately the weather didnt !
> @NickPalmer said: > Anecdata from my side - Surrey Labour *members* seem to have stayed loyal although several said they had been reluctant - partly they were still glowing from electoral success in the locals and didn't want to spoil it. But several said that they had normally Labour friends who were going LD or Green, and I do think the LDs will do very well. >
I suggest to Nick Palmer that those members were anticipating the treatment of the likes of Alistair Campbell and using coded language when they spoke only of the intentions of friends.
> @justin124 said: > > @Wulfrun_Phil said: > > On thread. > > > > Campbell disclosed only after voting closed that he had voted LD in one election. He also disclosed that he had voted Labour in 30 odd years of elections and intended to vote Labour in future. There is a world of difference between that and Heseltine's action in supporting the LDs, which was disclosed before the vote and therefore encouraged others to also vote LD last week. > > > > Nonetheless, I would expect nothing less of a hypocrite such as Corbyn. > > Not really - it revealed that he had helped the LDs beat Labour in London. He deserved to be expelled.
In that case I guess at least 25% of Labour Party members in London deserve the same fate.
Corbyn's triangulation strategy has been revealed to be a complete disaster, and he can't say he wasn't warned. Now I guess he will be dragged kicking and screaming into a position of support for a second referendum but he will be a wholly unconvincing advocate and it may well be too late for Labour in any case. The Lib Dems and Greens have mopped up many remain voters and Corbyn, until recently a lifelong Lexiter, is not well placed to win them back.
> @RobD said: > > It's the typical EU approach to democracy. --------
The Spitzenkandidaten process isn't official. It was an idea that came from Selmayr. According to the treaties the EU Council can decide who they want as long as the parliament votes for them.
> @Theuniondivvie said: > > @justin124 said: > >That has been true for years. Both Labour and the Tories had abysmal results there last week. Interesting too that the SNP only managed 37.7% - barely changed from 2017 GE - despite receiving protest votes along with LibDems, Greens and Brexit Party. I feel they will struggle to reach 35% in a Westminster election with both major parties performing much more strongly. I stick to my view that Labour's vote share in Scotland next time will be largely determined by what happens across GB as a whole. > > > If you're directly comparing Euro results to the GE, 2017 GE SLab - 27.1%, Euro 2019 - 9.3%. If you think that's a protest vote blip, well hello Dr Pangloss. > > Your other oft repeated line is that polls always over estimate the SNP. The last Scotland Euro poll in May had them on 38%, SLab on 16% & SCons on 11%. Which party was getting overestimated there d'ye think?
The SNP did not exceed expectations - and Labour certainly underperformed the polls but no more so than across GB as a whole!
> @williamglenn said: > > @RobD said: > > > > It's the typical EU approach to democracy. > -------- > > The Spitzenkandidaten process isn't official. It was an idea that came from Selmayr. According to the treaties the EU Council can decide who they want as long as the parliament votes for them.
Yeah, they were happy to go along with it when it suited them.
> @anothernick said: > > @justin124 said: > > > @Wulfrun_Phil said: > > > On thread. > > > > > > Campbell disclosed only after voting closed that he had voted LD in one election. He also disclosed that he had voted Labour in 30 odd years of elections and intended to vote Labour in future. There is a world of difference between that and Heseltine's action in supporting the LDs, which was disclosed before the vote and therefore encouraged others to also vote LD last week. > > > > > > Nonetheless, I would expect nothing less of a hypocrite such as Corbyn. > > > > Not really - it revealed that he had helped the LDs beat Labour in London. He deserved to be expelled. > > In that case I guess at least 25% of Labour Party members in London deserve the same fate. > > Corbyn's triangulation strategy has been revealed to be a complete disaster, and he can't say he wasn't warned. Now I guess he will be dragged kicking and screaming into a position of support for a second referendum but he will be a wholly unconvincing advocate and it may well be too late for Labour in any case. The Lib Dems and Greens have mopped up many remain voters and Corbyn, until recently a lifelong Lexiter, is not well placed to win them back.
If 25% of London Labour members voted LibDem or Green , those who admit to having done so should be expelled. The same applied to Labour members who voted LibDem at the Richmond by election in December 2016.
> @justin124 said: > > @Wulfrun_Phil said: > > On thread. > > > > Campbell disclosed only after voting closed that he had voted LD in one election. He also disclosed that he had voted Labour in 30 odd years of elections and intended to vote Labour in future. There is a world of difference between that and Heseltine's action in supporting the LDs, which was disclosed before the vote and therefore encouraged others to also vote LD last week. > > > > Nonetheless, I would expect nothing less of a hypocrite such as Corbyn. > > Not really - it revealed that he had helped the LDs beat Labour in London. He deserved to be expelled.
> @justin124 said: > > @anothernick said: > > > @justin124 said: > > > > @Wulfrun_Phil said: > > > > On thread. > > > > > > > > Campbell disclosed only after voting closed that he had voted LD in one election. He also disclosed that he had voted Labour in 30 odd years of elections and intended to vote Labour in future. There is a world of difference between that and Heseltine's action in supporting the LDs, which was disclosed before the vote and therefore encouraged others to also vote LD last week. > > > > > > > > Nonetheless, I would expect nothing less of a hypocrite such as Corbyn. > > > > > > Not really - it revealed that he had helped the LDs beat Labour in London. He deserved to be expelled. > > > > In that case I guess at least 25% of Labour Party members in London deserve the same fate. > > > > Corbyn's triangulation strategy has been revealed to be a complete disaster, and he can't say he wasn't warned. Now I guess he will be dragged kicking and screaming into a position of support for a second referendum but he will be a wholly unconvincing advocate and it may well be too late for Labour in any case. The Lib Dems and Greens have mopped up many remain voters and Corbyn, until recently a lifelong Lexiter, is not well placed to win them back. > > If 25% of London Labour members voted LibDem or Green , those who admit to having done so should be expelled. The same applied to Labour members who voted LibDem at the Richmond by election in December 2016.
You are watching the demise of either the labour party or Corbyn and his cabal
Labour should have drawn a distinction between admitting to voting for a different party and explicitly advocating that others do so. Maybe they want a purge anyway?
> @IanB2 said: > > @Pulpstar said: > > Someone has confidence in the Betfair rules... Movement on the Lib Dem 15-20% market. > > Unusual for free money to be on offer at 1.11 after an election result has been declared?
> Someone has confidence in the Betfair rules... Movement on the Lib Dem 15-20% market.
Unusual for free money to be on offer at 1.11 after an election result has been declared?
I've got £74 at 1.07 average in "after hours" trading. Yes, it should be 'free money' but I got burnt Friday by May's non resignation so I've got a possibly worry they'll settle on GB shares or some such.
Comments
> https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1133376273055703040
FFS - he just loves stirring
> > @Roger said:
> > > @GIN1138 said:
> > > > @Scott_P said:
> > > > https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1133360426048217088
> > >
> > > Good for Boris for getting someone who knows what they are doing to run the social media campaign.
> >
> > The dream team!
> >
> > AKA The Sleaze Balls
>
> I guess that is Paul Staines the kindred spirit of the egotist Boris Johnson, also the same Paul Staines who is co-founder of a company that according to wiki is an advisor to the Russian Embassy on social media.
>
> Nice company these Brexiteers keep. So much for them being patriots!
I presume you are talking about MessageSpace...which was also co-founded by Jag Singh a Labour supporter, who behind LabourHome and worked with Hillary Clinton.
My understanding is it is Jag Singh who has the Russian connections, as he worked for President Medvedev and a fluent Russian speaker.
> > @williamglenn said:
> > https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1133376273055703040
> FFS - he just loves stirring
He is on the same page as me for once
> > @justin124 said:
> > Westminster will not agree to such a Referendum for quite some years. Sturgeon doubtless knows that with her statement yesterday simply being a means to make it a live issue at the 2021 Holyrood elections.
>
>
> I suppose moving from 'We'd still win it but we're not going to allow you a referendum cos reasons' to 'We're not going to allow you a referendum cos we'd lose it' is progress of a sort.
That is a non sequitur. I am not persuaded that Sturgeon believes she would win such a vote - but is happy to proceed with this charade confident it will be blocked.
> > @ydoethur said:
> > Do you think Jeremy Corbyn voted Labour in the 2000 London mayoral election?
> > Because I don't. Like many Labour Party members he voted for Ken. But the leadership at the time was sensible enough to realise that it would be self-defeating and aggravate division to move against members who did not support the party at that election.
> >
> > Pity in a way. Just think how much better off Labour would be now if Blair had acted to eradicate the hard left for good and all.
>
> I have no doubt that had he declared his support for Livingstone , he would have been expelled.
See it is going ever so well for labour in Scotland Justin !!!!
> > @Nigel_Foremain said:
> > > @Sean_F said:
> > >
> > > Shed no tear for Campbell. He's a fascinating man, but his impact on Labour has been malign. And, advocating that people vote against your own party is a no no.
> >
> > Voting against your own party leader is OK though apparently, according to many Brexit obsessives.
>
> Being a rebel in Parliament is not the same as voting for another party in an election. The latter is comparable to an MP voting against the Whip on a VNOC.
I think that is irrational nonsense. If however it is accepted, I hope that all Tory members are sent a letter asking if they will declare if they voted for the Faragist Party, and that investigations are undertaken to see who has made sympathetic noises in favour, or have been muttering Heil El Nige after too many glasses of port.
Mr. Doethur, your bribery skill needs levelling up. That, or intimidation (or the charisma stat).
> > @Nigel_Foremain said:
> > > @Roger said:
> > > > @GIN1138 said:
> > > > > @Scott_P said:
> > > > > https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1133360426048217088
> > > >
> > > > Good for Boris for getting someone who knows what they are doing to run the social media campaign.
> > >
> > > The dream team!
> > >
> > > AKA The Sleaze Balls
> >
> > I guess that is Paul Staines the kindred spirit of the egotist Boris Johnson, also the same Paul Staines who is co-founder of a company that according to wiki is an advisor to the Russian Embassy on social media.
> >
> > Nice company these Brexiteers keep. So much for them being patriots!
>
> I presume you are talking about MessageSpace...which was also co-founded by Jag Singh a Labour supporter, who behind LabourHome and worked with Hillary Clinton.
>
> My understanding is it is Jag Singh who has the Russian connections, as he worked for President Medvedev and a fluent Russian speaker.
Why earth do the Russians need to get social media advice from us?
> https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1133376273055703040
That does seem to stand up to some scrutiny, particularly when you compare to the other incompetents and numpties in the race. It would be nice to think the Tory Party got some sanity back and actually voted for someone who has actually proved themselves.
> > @oxfordsimon said:
> > > @williamglenn said:
> > FFS - he just loves stirring
>
> He is on the same page as me for once
But he should have kept quiet. He just can't help himself.
> https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1133376273055703040
But he's correct. I said earlier that Michael Gove is the only one of them capable of delivering Brexit. Jeremy Hunt would be next. The rest? Hopeless.
Civil servants love Michael Gove. He's hard working, diligent with his brief, listens to them (no, really) and gives highly intelligent and considered responses.
I don't think the Tories will elect him but he's by far the most capable.
> https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1133376273055703040
Talking of the Speaker, isn't he supposed to be going next month or will he now find a reason to hang on a bit longer?
Bow ties work wonders.
Critical times ahead for what happens regarding the UK-EU relationship. Bercow will want to influence that.
> > @williamglenn said:
> > https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1133376273055703040
>
> But he's correct. I said earlier that Michael Gove is the only one of them capable of delivering Brexit. Jeremy Hunt would be next. The rest? Hopeless.
>
> Civil servants love Michael Gove. He's hard working, diligent with his brief, listens to them (no, really) and gives highly intelligent and considered responses.
>
> I don't think the Tories will elect him but he's by far the most capable.
Stewart-Gove is the PB dream team.
> But he should have kept quiet.
Why?
>
> But he should have kept quiet. He just can't help himself.
-------------
I imagine he felt he had to explain to his American audience why he wasn't standing and to reassure them that there were some candidates who at least had a fraction of his ability.
> > @Pulpstar said:
> > Another day, another argument about BF rules.
> >
> >
> >
> > I assume the LD market hasn't settled because LD got >20% GB (widely reported) and <20% UK (not much reported). Rules clearly say UK but who knows??
> >
> >
> >
> > Now at 1.35 if you're feeling confident...
> >
> > Votes Lib Dem
> > Northern Ireland 577275 0
> > North West 1715735 297507
> > North East 619854 104330
> > West Mids 1279904 219982
> > East Mids 1183227 203989
> > Eastern 1598455 361563
> > South West 1676173 385095
> > South East 2538945 653743
> > Yorkshire 1289277 200180
> > Wales 836195 113885
> > Scotland 1571226 218285
> > London 2241681 608725
> >
> > For 19.6% I make it going through the areas by hand
>
> I note the meme going round showing pro-Brexit parties winning 35% and anti-Brexit parties 40%. That's definitely a dodgy bar-chart. Since when did the Tories cease to be pro-Brexit? I voted for them on that basis.
Opinion polls were showing tories voting tory in the euros about 50/50 split between remain and leave. I think it is fair to see the tory vote in the euros at least as different to the Brexit/UKIP group
> Miss Rose, because the Speaker is meant to be objective regarding the Commons and steer well clear of wading into party political matters.
Don't you think that at this critical juncture in British history, with the shitshower in the House of Commons, that it's good a man of Bercow's position expresses an opinion? I certainly do.
He's one of the very few to come out of Brexit with distinction.
> > @justin124 said:
> > > @ydoethur said:
> > > Do you think Jeremy Corbyn voted Labour in the 2000 London mayoral election?
> > > Because I don't. Like many Labour Party members he voted for Ken. But the leadership at the time was sensible enough to realise that it would be self-defeating and aggravate division to move against members who did not support the party at that election.
> > >
> > > Pity in a way. Just think how much better off Labour would be now if Blair had acted to eradicate the hard left for good and all.
> >
> > I have no doubt that had he declared his support for Livingstone , he would have been expelled.
>
> See it is going ever so well for labour in Scotland Justin !!!!
That has been true for years. Both Labour and the Tories had abysmal results there last week. Interesting too that the SNP only managed 37.7% - barely changed from 2017 GE - despite receiving protest votes along with LibDems, Greens and Brexit Party. I feel they will struggle to reach 35% in a Westminster election with both major parties performing much more strongly. I stick to my view that Labour's vote share in Scotland next time will be largely determined by what happens across GB as a whole.
> > @FrancisUrquhart said:
> > > @Nigel_Foremain said:
> > > > @Roger said:
> > > > > @GIN1138 said:
> > > > > > @Scott_P said:
> > > > > > https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1133360426048217088
> > > > >
> > > > > Good for Boris for getting someone who knows what they are doing to run the social media campaign.
> > > >
> > > > The dream team!
> > > >
> > > > AKA The Sleaze Balls
> > >
> > > I guess that is Paul Staines the kindred spirit of the egotist Boris Johnson, also the same Paul Staines who is co-founder of a company that according to wiki is an advisor to the Russian Embassy on social media.
> > >
> > > Nice company these Brexiteers keep. So much for them being patriots!
> >
> > I presume you are talking about MessageSpace...which was also co-founded by Jag Singh a Labour supporter, who behind LabourHome and worked with Hillary Clinton.
> >
> > My understanding is it is Jag Singh who has the Russian connections, as he worked for President Medvedev and a fluent Russian speaker.
>
> Why earth do the Russians need to get social media advice from us?
Perhaps they were advising MessageSpace?
> Meanwhile, while an almost empty Holyrood discusses whether children can be smacked or not: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48431820
>
> Wasn't there a case about 10 years ago involving French parents who chastised their unruly offspring in the traditional manner and were brought back from France to face Scottish justice?
Not aware of that but wouldn't be too surprised.
> > When you say "looking forward", presumably you mean it's dawned on you that it's inevitable, and that you'll lose.
>
> Westminster will not agree to such a Referendum for quite some years. Sturgeon doubtless knows that with her statement yesterday simply being a means to make it a live issue at the 2021 Holyrood elections.
It's not inevitable and post Brexit it will be even harder for the Nats to win.
Thats why frit Nicla isn't keen on having one anytime soon.
Admittedly though he wasn't responsible for the most crass act of going native - the appointment of a failed Civil Servant to head up OFSTED. He did get somebody with vast experience to do that in Wilshaw, even if it was a mixed success.
> https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1133362626795380736
How kind of him
Besides, even from a partisan pro-Remain perspective it's dumb. Bercow approving of candidates will do them more harm than good.
Edited extra bit: *meant to be
> > @Sean_F said:
> > > @Pulpstar said:
> > > Another day, another argument about BF rules.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I assume the LD market hasn't settled because LD got >20% GB (widely reported) and <20% UK (not much reported). Rules clearly say UK but who knows??
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Now at 1.35 if you're feeling confident...
> > >
> > > Votes Lib Dem
> > > Northern Ireland 577275 0
> > > North West 1715735 297507
> > > North East 619854 104330
> > > West Mids 1279904 219982
> > > East Mids 1183227 203989
> > > Eastern 1598455 361563
> > > South West 1676173 385095
> > > South East 2538945 653743
> > > Yorkshire 1289277 200180
> > > Wales 836195 113885
> > > Scotland 1571226 218285
> > > London 2241681 608725
> > >
> > > For 19.6% I make it going through the areas by hand
> >
> > I note the meme going round showing pro-Brexit parties winning 35% and anti-Brexit parties 40%. That's definitely a dodgy bar-chart. Since when did the Tories cease to be pro-Brexit? I voted for them on that basis.
>
> Opinion polls were showing tories voting tory in the euros about 50/50 split between remain and leave. I think it is fair to see the tory vote in the euros at least as different to the Brexit/UKIP group
Sure, but there are people who vote SNP, Plaid, Green and Lib Dem who support Leave. The Conservatives are certainly pro-Brexit.
It would be fair to say that more people voted for Remain parties than for No Deal Brexit parties.
Campbell disclosed only after voting closed that he had voted LD in one election. He also disclosed that he had voted Labour in 30 odd years of elections and intended to vote Labour in future. There is a world of difference between that and Heseltine's action in supporting the LDs, which was disclosed before the vote and therefore encouraged others to also vote LD last week.
Nonetheless, I would expect nothing less of a hypocrite such as Corbyn.
>
> It's not inevitable and post Brexit it will be even harder for the Nats to win.
>
---------
Why? Either Brexit will be soft, in which case EU membership will be "taking back control", or Brexit will be hard, in which case EU membership will be a lifeboat.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > @justin124 said:
> > > > @ydoethur said:
> > > > Do you think Jeremy Corbyn voted Labour in the 2000 London mayoral election?
> > > > Because I don't. Like many Labour Party members he voted for Ken. But the leadership at the time was sensible enough to realise that it would be self-defeating and aggravate division to move against members who did not support the party at that election.
> > > >
> > > > Pity in a way. Just think how much better off Labour would be now if Blair had acted to eradicate the hard left for good and all.
> > >
> > > I have no doubt that had he declared his support for Livingstone , he would have been expelled.
> >
> > See it is going ever so well for labour in Scotland Justin !!!!
>
> That has been true for years. Both Labour and the Tories had abysmal results there last week. Interesting too that the SNP only managed 37.7% - barely changed from 2017 GE - despite receiving protest votes along with LibDems, Greens and Brexit Party. I feel they will struggle to reach 35% in a Westminster election with both major parties performing much more strongly. I stick to my view that Labour's vote share in Scotland next time will be largely determined by what happens across GB as a whole.
Labour was 5th last week and is facing wipeout in Scotland
Long but well argued for those with the time and patience. Not one for the Jeremy Kyle/Guido set
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0005f05
> > @justin124 said:
> > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > > @justin124 said:
> > > > > @ydoethur said:
> > > > > Do you think Jeremy Corbyn voted Labour in the 2000 London mayoral election?
> > > > > Because I don't. Like many Labour Party members he voted for Ken. But the leadership at the time was sensible enough to realise that it would be self-defeating and aggravate division to move against members who did not support the party at that election.
> > > > >
> > > > > Pity in a way. Just think how much better off Labour would be now if Blair had acted to eradicate the hard left for good and all.
> > > >
> > > > I have no doubt that had he declared his support for Livingstone , he would have been expelled.
> > >
> > > See it is going ever so well for labour in Scotland Justin !!!!
> >
> > That has been true for years. Both Labour and the Tories had abysmal results there last week. Interesting too that the SNP only managed 37.7% - barely changed from 2017 GE - despite receiving protest votes along with LibDems, Greens and Brexit Party. I feel they will struggle to reach 35% in a Westminster election with both major parties performing much more strongly. I stick to my view that Labour's vote share in Scotland next time will be largely determined by what happens across GB as a whole.
>
> Labour was 5th last week and is facing wipeout in Scotland
Compared with the 2017 GE Labour dropped 18% in Scotland - as did the Tories. Across GB as a whole Labour dropped 26% with rhe Tories falling 33%.
> On thread.
>
>
>
> Campbell disclosed only after voting closed that he had voted LD in one election. He also disclosed that he had voted Labour in 30 odd years of elections and intended to vote Labour in future. There is a world of difference between that and Heseltine's action in supporting the LDs, which was disclosed before the vote and therefore encouraged others to also vote LD last week.
>
>
>
> Nonetheless, I would expect nothing less of a hypocrite such as Corbyn.
>
> Hasn’t Heseltine already been booted out?
He has had the Whip suspended - but not been expelled.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/1598150.stm
Smacking has been an issue for bien-pensants in Scotland for ~ 20 years and still it plays to the rafters in Holyrood.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > @justin124 said:
> > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > > > @justin124 said:
> > > > > > @ydoethur said:
> > > > > > Do you think Jeremy Corbyn voted Labour in the 2000 London mayoral election?
> > > > > > Because I don't. Like many Labour Party members he voted for Ken. But the leadership at the time was sensible enough to realise that it would be self-defeating and aggravate division to move against members who did not support the party at that election.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pity in a way. Just think how much better off Labour would be now if Blair had acted to eradicate the hard left for good and all.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have no doubt that had he declared his support for Livingstone , he would have been expelled.
> > > >
> > > > See it is going ever so well for labour in Scotland Justin !!!!
> > >
> > > That has been true for years. Both Labour and the Tories had abysmal results there last week. Interesting too that the SNP only managed 37.7% - barely changed from 2017 GE - despite receiving protest votes along with LibDems, Greens and Brexit Party. I feel they will struggle to reach 35% in a Westminster election with both major parties performing much more strongly. I stick to my view that Labour's vote share in Scotland next time will be largely determined by what happens across GB as a whole.
> >
> > Labour was 5th last week and is facing wipeout in Scotland
>
> Compared with the 2017 GE Labour dropped 18% in Scotland - as did the Tories. Across GB as a whole Labour dropped 26% with rhe Tories falling 33%.
Justin - you are in complete denial over labour in Scotland
> https://twitter.com/business/status/1133312897650704385
So much for democracy. I thought the leader of the biggest group in the EU Parliament became the leader?
> On thread.
>
> Campbell disclosed only after voting closed that he had voted LD in one election. He also disclosed that he had voted Labour in 30 odd years of elections and intended to vote Labour in future. There is a world of difference between that and Heseltine's action in supporting the LDs, which was disclosed before the vote and therefore encouraged others to also vote LD last week.
>
> Nonetheless, I would expect nothing less of a hypocrite such as Corbyn.
Not really - it revealed that he had helped the LDs beat Labour in London. He deserved to be expelled.
> > @justin124 said:
> > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > > @justin124 said:
> > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > > > > @justin124 said:
> > > > > > > @ydoethur said:
> > > > > > > Do you think Jeremy Corbyn voted Labour in the 2000 London mayoral election?
> > > > > > > Because I don't. Like many Labour Party members he voted for Ken. But the leadership at the time was sensible enough to realise that it would be self-defeating and aggravate division to move against members who did not support the party at that election.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Pity in a way. Just think how much better off Labour would be now if Blair had acted to eradicate the hard left for good and all.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have no doubt that had he declared his support for Livingstone , he would have been expelled.
> > > > >
> > > > > See it is going ever so well for labour in Scotland Justin !!!!
> > > >
> > > > That has been true for years. Both Labour and the Tories had abysmal results there last week. Interesting too that the SNP only managed 37.7% - barely changed from 2017 GE - despite receiving protest votes along with LibDems, Greens and Brexit Party. I feel they will struggle to reach 35% in a Westminster election with both major parties performing much more strongly. I stick to my view that Labour's vote share in Scotland next time will be largely determined by what happens across GB as a whole.
> > >
> > > Labour was 5th last week and is facing wipeout in Scotland
> >
> > Compared with the 2017 GE Labour dropped 18% in Scotland - as did the Tories. Across GB as a whole Labour dropped 26% with rhe Tories falling 33%.
>
> Justin - you are in complete denial over labour in Scotland
I have presented you with several facts . Why not try addressing them?
> https://twitter.com/TheSimonGilbert/status/1133376474348740609
I trust he also will now face expulsion - indeed the party has no choice.
>That has been true for years. Both Labour and the Tories had abysmal results there last week. Interesting too that the SNP only managed 37.7% - barely changed from 2017 GE - despite receiving protest votes along with LibDems, Greens and Brexit Party. I feel they will struggle to reach 35% in a Westminster election with both major parties performing much more strongly. I stick to my view that Labour's vote share in Scotland next time will be largely determined by what happens across GB as a whole.
If you're directly comparing Euro results to the GE, 2017 GE SLab - 27.1%, Euro 2019 - 9.3%. If you think that's a protest vote blip, well hello Dr Pangloss.
Your other oft repeated line is that polls always over estimate the SNP. The last Scotland Euro poll in May had them on 38%, SLab on 16% & SCons on 11%. Which party was getting overestimated there d'ye think?
> > @williamglenn said:
>
> > https://twitter.com/business/status/1133312897650704385
>
>
>
>
>
> So much for democracy. I thought the leader of the biggest group in the EU Parliament became the leader?
>
> This is for Juncker's job.
Yes, and he was elected as the spitzenkandidat for the EPP group. Barnier is no group's spitzenkandidat.
> https://twitter.com/TheSimonGilbert/status/1133376474348740609
It does make you wonder if this could snowball into many prominent labour members declaring they voted against labour in the EU's thereby challenging Corbyn to sack them and increasing the comparision between this and the way Corbyn deals with anti semitism in the labour party
Edited extra bit: or German? I remember, just 'es regnet'.
https://twitter.com/ronanburtenshaw/status/1133308406742355968
> > @Scott_P said:
> > https://twitter.com/TheSimonGilbert/status/1133376474348740609
>
> I trust he also will now face expulsion - indeed the party has no choice.
And so it snowballs into a huge crisis for Corbyn
> > @Scott_P said:
> > https://twitter.com/TheSimonGilbert/status/1133376474348740609
>
> I trust he also will now face expulsion - indeed the party has no choice.
They're going all "I'm Spartacus" over this.
> > @geoffw said:
>
> > > @williamglenn said:
>
> >
>
> > > twitter.com/business/status/1133312897650704385
>
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > So much for democracy. I thought the leader of the biggest group in the EU Parliament became the leader?
>
> >
>
> > This is for Juncker's job.
>
>
>
> Yes, and he was elected as the spitzenkandidat for the EPP group. Barnier is no group's spitzenkandidat.
>
> Ah ok.
It's the typical EU approach to democracy.
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > @justin124 said:
> > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > > > @justin124 said:
> > > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > > > > > @justin124 said:
> > > > > > > > @ydoethur said:
> > > > > > > > Do you think Jeremy Corbyn voted Labour in the 2000 London mayoral election?
> > > > > > > > Because I don't. Like many Labour Party members he voted for Ken. But the leadership at the time was sensible enough to realise that it would be self-defeating and aggravate division to move against members who did not support the party at that election.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Pity in a way. Just think how much better off Labour would be now if Blair had acted to eradicate the hard left for good and all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have no doubt that had he declared his support for Livingstone , he would have been expelled.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > See it is going ever so well for labour in Scotland Justin !!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > That has been true for years. Both Labour and the Tories had abysmal results there last week. Interesting too that the SNP only managed 37.7% - barely changed from 2017 GE - despite receiving protest votes along with LibDems, Greens and Brexit Party. I feel they will struggle to reach 35% in a Westminster election with both major parties performing much more strongly. I stick to my view that Labour's vote share in Scotland next time will be largely determined by what happens across GB as a whole.
> > > >
> > > > Labour was 5th last week and is facing wipeout in Scotland
> > >
> > > Compared with the 2017 GE Labour dropped 18% in Scotland - as did the Tories. Across GB as a whole Labour dropped 26% with rhe Tories falling 33%.
> >
> > Justin - you are in complete denial over labour in Scotland
>
> I have presented you with several facts . Why not try addressing them?
You live in your own world of delusion as far as Scotland is concerned
> > @geoffw said:
> > Meanwhile, while an almost empty Holyrood discusses whether children can be smacked or not: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48431820
> >
> > Wasn't there a case about 10 years ago involving French parents who chastised their unruly offspring in the traditional manner and were brought back from France to face Scottish justice?
>
> Not aware of that but wouldn't be too surprised.
Mr L
was in your neck of the woods at the weekend. Enjoyed the V&A in Dundee and St Andrews, first time Id been there . Also hadnt realised just how big fruit farming was in Tayside. The poly tuinnels reminded me of parts of Spain, Unfortunately the weather didnt !
> @NickPalmer said:
> Anecdata from my side - Surrey Labour *members* seem to have stayed loyal although several said they had been reluctant - partly they were still glowing from electoral success in the locals and didn't want to spoil it. But several said that they had normally Labour friends who were going LD or Green, and I do think the LDs will do very well.
>
I suggest to Nick Palmer that those members were anticipating the treatment of the likes of Alistair Campbell and using coded language when they spoke only of the intentions of friends.
> > @Wulfrun_Phil said:
> > On thread.
> >
> > Campbell disclosed only after voting closed that he had voted LD in one election. He also disclosed that he had voted Labour in 30 odd years of elections and intended to vote Labour in future. There is a world of difference between that and Heseltine's action in supporting the LDs, which was disclosed before the vote and therefore encouraged others to also vote LD last week.
> >
> > Nonetheless, I would expect nothing less of a hypocrite such as Corbyn.
>
> Not really - it revealed that he had helped the LDs beat Labour in London. He deserved to be expelled.
In that case I guess at least 25% of Labour Party members in London deserve the same fate.
Corbyn's triangulation strategy has been revealed to be a complete disaster, and he can't say he wasn't warned. Now I guess he will be dragged kicking and screaming into a position of support for a second referendum but he will be a wholly unconvincing advocate and it may well be too late for Labour in any case. The Lib Dems and Greens have mopped up many remain voters and Corbyn, until recently a lifelong Lexiter, is not well placed to win them back.
>
> It's the typical EU approach to democracy.
--------
The Spitzenkandidaten process isn't official. It was an idea that came from Selmayr. According to the treaties the EU Council can decide who they want as long as the parliament votes for them.
Anyway, here's another:
https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1133384682366799873
> > @justin124 said:
> >That has been true for years. Both Labour and the Tories had abysmal results there last week. Interesting too that the SNP only managed 37.7% - barely changed from 2017 GE - despite receiving protest votes along with LibDems, Greens and Brexit Party. I feel they will struggle to reach 35% in a Westminster election with both major parties performing much more strongly. I stick to my view that Labour's vote share in Scotland next time will be largely determined by what happens across GB as a whole.
>
>
> If you're directly comparing Euro results to the GE, 2017 GE SLab - 27.1%, Euro 2019 - 9.3%. If you think that's a protest vote blip, well hello Dr Pangloss.
>
> Your other oft repeated line is that polls always over estimate the SNP. The last Scotland Euro poll in May had them on 38%, SLab on 16% & SCons on 11%. Which party was getting overestimated there d'ye think?
The SNP did not exceed expectations - and Labour certainly underperformed the polls but no more so than across GB as a whole!
> > @RobD said:
> >
> > It's the typical EU approach to democracy.
> --------
>
> The Spitzenkandidaten process isn't official. It was an idea that came from Selmayr. According to the treaties the EU Council can decide who they want as long as the parliament votes for them.
Yeah, they were happy to go along with it when it suited them.
> Emergency 2nd meeting of SLab MSPs this afternoon, apparently.
Resign Hard II: Resign Harder
> Emergency 2nd meeting of SLab MSPs this afternoon, apparently.
Do> @Scott_P said:
> https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1133385861381447682
Don't tell Justin about labour collapsing across Scotland
> > @justin124 said:
> > > @Wulfrun_Phil said:
> > > On thread.
> > >
> > > Campbell disclosed only after voting closed that he had voted LD in one election. He also disclosed that he had voted Labour in 30 odd years of elections and intended to vote Labour in future. There is a world of difference between that and Heseltine's action in supporting the LDs, which was disclosed before the vote and therefore encouraged others to also vote LD last week.
> > >
> > > Nonetheless, I would expect nothing less of a hypocrite such as Corbyn.
> >
> > Not really - it revealed that he had helped the LDs beat Labour in London. He deserved to be expelled.
>
> In that case I guess at least 25% of Labour Party members in London deserve the same fate.
>
> Corbyn's triangulation strategy has been revealed to be a complete disaster, and he can't say he wasn't warned. Now I guess he will be dragged kicking and screaming into a position of support for a second referendum but he will be a wholly unconvincing advocate and it may well be too late for Labour in any case. The Lib Dems and Greens have mopped up many remain voters and Corbyn, until recently a lifelong Lexiter, is not well placed to win them back.
If 25% of London Labour members voted LibDem or Green , those who admit to having done so should be expelled. The same applied to Labour members who voted LibDem at the Richmond by election in December 2016.
> > @Wulfrun_Phil said:
> > On thread.
> >
> > Campbell disclosed only after voting closed that he had voted LD in one election. He also disclosed that he had voted Labour in 30 odd years of elections and intended to vote Labour in future. There is a world of difference between that and Heseltine's action in supporting the LDs, which was disclosed before the vote and therefore encouraged others to also vote LD last week.
> >
> > Nonetheless, I would expect nothing less of a hypocrite such as Corbyn.
>
> Not really - it revealed that he had helped the LDs beat Labour in London. He deserved to be expelled.
It? Your source?
> > @anothernick said:
> > > @justin124 said:
> > > > @Wulfrun_Phil said:
> > > > On thread.
> > > >
> > > > Campbell disclosed only after voting closed that he had voted LD in one election. He also disclosed that he had voted Labour in 30 odd years of elections and intended to vote Labour in future. There is a world of difference between that and Heseltine's action in supporting the LDs, which was disclosed before the vote and therefore encouraged others to also vote LD last week.
> > > >
> > > > Nonetheless, I would expect nothing less of a hypocrite such as Corbyn.
> > >
> > > Not really - it revealed that he had helped the LDs beat Labour in London. He deserved to be expelled.
> >
> > In that case I guess at least 25% of Labour Party members in London deserve the same fate.
> >
> > Corbyn's triangulation strategy has been revealed to be a complete disaster, and he can't say he wasn't warned. Now I guess he will be dragged kicking and screaming into a position of support for a second referendum but he will be a wholly unconvincing advocate and it may well be too late for Labour in any case. The Lib Dems and Greens have mopped up many remain voters and Corbyn, until recently a lifelong Lexiter, is not well placed to win them back.
>
> If 25% of London Labour members voted LibDem or Green , those who admit to having done so should be expelled. The same applied to Labour members who voted LibDem at the Richmond by election in December 2016.
You are watching the demise of either the labour party or Corbyn and his cabal
> Someone has confidence in the Betfair rules... Movement on the Lib Dem 15-20% market.
Unusual for free money to be on offer at 1.11 after an election result has been declared?
> > @justin124 said:
> > > @Scott_P said:
> > > https://twitter.com/TheSimonGilbert/status/1133376474348740609
> >
> > I trust he also will now face expulsion - indeed the party has no choice.
>
> They're going all "I'm Spartacus" over this.
Labour should have drawn a distinction between admitting to voting for a different party and explicitly advocating that others do so. Maybe they want a purge anyway?
> > @AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
> > Emergency 2nd meeting of SLab MSPs this afternoon, apparently.
>
> Do> @Scott_P said:
> > https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1133385861381447682
>
> Don't tell Justin about labour collapsing across Scotland
I won't mention them polling just 2.8% in my council area.
> > @Pulpstar said:
> > Someone has confidence in the Betfair rules... Movement on the Lib Dem 15-20% market.
>
> Unusual for free money to be on offer at 1.11 after an election result has been declared?
BREAKING: Market Suspended.
Hello Betfair!
> > @Big_G_NorthWales said:
> > > @AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
> > > Emergency 2nd meeting of SLab MSPs this afternoon, apparently.
> >
> > Do> @Scott_P said:
> > > https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1133385861381447682
> >
> > Don't tell Justin about labour collapsing across Scotland
>
> I won't mention them polling just 2.8% in my council area.
It is not a surprise to me to be honest
> > @justin124 said:
> > > @Scott_P said:
> > > https://twitter.com/TheSimonGilbert/status/1133376474348740609
> >
> > I trust he also will now face expulsion - indeed the party has no choice.
>
> And so it snowballs into a huge crisis for Corbyn
Who could have foreseen this might be an issue when the Labour vote dropped from 40% to 14% in 2 years?