Clare Daly (Ind4Change, Socialists) overtakes Andrews (FF) even before Sinn Fein's elimination.
So the dispute about if redistributing the SF's transfers won't matter much. Daly takes third seat and Andrews the 4th which will be freezed until Brexit.
> @StuartDickson said: > > @madmacs said: > > Sorry for Campbell. There must be thousands of Tory members who voted Brexit on Thursday as well as Labour members voting Green or Lib Dem. Campbell's crime was to admit it on tv. Good job we have a secret ballot for the rest of us. > > I think it is actually quite common for members to vote for another party. I’ve done it myself.
> > It's rather amusing that Campbell, one of the chief architects of the Iraq War, is finally booted out of Labour for voting for the Liberal Democrats.
>
> I thought he was a press officer , not commander in chief.
> Main architetect, you do spout some crap.
Campbell had far more power in New Labour than almost anyone.
I'm just mildly intrigued to learn that Yorkcity thinks the Queen was somehow to blame.
> @MikeSmithson said: > > @isam said: > > Bad Al is not one of the good guys, even if Corbyn were the vilest of anti semites > > Disagree. He's a Burnley fan
Which only goes to prove that there is light and shade in us all Mike.
What is left of SLAB is collapsing right now. Left winger Neil Findlay resigns from shadow cabinet and announces he will stand down in 2021. Daniel Johnson (moderate) is considering quitting shadow cabinet too. Labour MSPs group meeting takes place this afternoon
> @twistedfirestopper3 said: > > @Yorkcity said: > > > @ydoethur said: > > > It's rather amusing that Campbell, one of the chief architects of the Iraq War, is finally booted out of Labour for voting for the Liberal Democrats. > > > > I thought he was a press officer , not commander in chief. > > Main architetect, you do spout some crap. > > Campbell had far more power in New Labour than almost anyone.
> @AndreaParma_82 said: > Clare Daly (Ind4Change, Socialists) overtakes Andrews (FF) even before Sinn Fein's elimination. > > So the dispute about if redistributing the SF's transfers won't matter much. Daly takes third seat and Andrews the 4th which will be freezed until Brexit.
It was after a recount though as I thought Andrews was ahead last night after the Social Democrat votes were distributed. Maybe they should go back to count 1 and start again.....They might have a result by Halloween when we leave?
FPT > @FrancisUrquhart said: > Amazing how it took what felt like 27 years to decide if Red Ken might need ejecting from the Labour Party as needed to go through a massive long winded process, but Bad Al, straight out the door.
But Livingstone WAS expelled from the Labour Party in the late 1990s for standing as an Independent candidate against Labour's Frank Dobson.
> @isam said: > Cleverly, a black Brexiteer, would stymie Farage and Corbyn I think. He comes across as reasonable and normal, a lot going for him in my opinion
> @Yorkcity said: > > @twistedfirestopper3 said: > > > @Yorkcity said: > > > > @ydoethur said: > > > > It's rather amusing that Campbell, one of the chief architects of the Iraq War, is finally booted out of Labour for voting for the Liberal Democrats. > > > > > > I thought he was a press officer , not commander in chief. > > > Main architetect, you do spout some crap. > > > > Campbell had far more power in New Labour than almost anyone. > > He had no power over George w Bush.
He had the power to convince the country Bush was correct.
@Mysticrose said: > > @tlg86 said: > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party. > > That's unbelievable > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum
Frankly I would have expected nothing else - ditto the Tories expelling Widdecombe. If you belong to a political party , and reveal that you have now supported another party in preference to your own I believe you have to accept that your membership will be withdrawn. Why should such a person continue to have any voting rights within the party? The Tories should also expel Heseltine.
> Amazing how it took what felt like 27 years to decide if Red Ken might need ejecting from the Labour Party as needed to go through a massive long winded process, but Bad Al, straight out the door.
But Livingstone WAS expelled from the Labour Party in the late 1990s for standing as an Independent candidate against Labour's Frank Dobson.
At least that episode gave Labour some experience of coming third in an important election.
> @justin124 said: > @Mysticrose said: > > > @tlg86 said: > > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party. > > > > That's unbelievable > > > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum > > Frankly I would have expected nothing else - ditto the Tories expelling Widdecombe. If you belong to a political party , and reveal that you have now supported another party in preference to your own I believe you have to accept that your membership will be withdrawn. Why should such a person continue to have any voting rights within the party? The Tories should also expel Heseltine.
Has it struck you, in light of the results, that instead of punishing those people they might look at themselves?
> Clare Daly (Ind4Change, Socialists) overtakes Andrews (FF) even before Sinn Fein's elimination.
>
> So the dispute about if redistributing the SF's transfers won't matter much. Daly takes third seat and Andrews the 4th which will be freezed until Brexit.
It was after a recount though as I thought Andrews was ahead last night after the Social Democrat votes were distributed. Maybe they should go back to count 1 and start again.....They might have a result by Halloween when we leave?
I thought he was ahead last night too. And today it was reported he asked a recount of Count 14 (Labour transfers). Apparently they counted Social Democrats transfer today (count 15) and those pushed Daly ahead
He had the power to convince the country Bush was correct.
I think it is fair to say that nobody could have convinced this country that Bush was correct about anything. Remind them he has top degrees from Yale and Harvard and they assume you're drinking, so deep seated is the carefully cultivated myth of stupidity he built round himself and the British public swallowed wholesale.
What he did do - and here it gets much murkier - is he had he power to convince people Blair had legitimate reasons for joining the invasion. Now, as it happens, Blair may have done - probably did - but hey appear to have been based on reasoning and deduction rather than hard evidence. What Campbell did, in typical Campbell fashion, was to provide evidence and overhype it.
The odd thing is, it seems he really did tell what he thought was the truth - and it turned out to be false.
> Sorry for Campbell. There must be thousands of Tory members who voted Brexit on Thursday as well as Labour members voting Green or Lib Dem. Campbell's crime was to admit it on tv. Good job we have a secret ballot for the rest of us.
I think it is actually quite common for members to vote for another party. I’ve done it myself.
Weren’t you guys encouraged to vote Green on the list at one point?
> This will start to detoxify politicians of Blair's generation in the eyes of younger pro-European Momentum activists, rather than start to remove them.
>
> Very, very stupid.
Campbell is beyond redemption. He's going to hell with Blair.
Famous ditty from the 1920s:
Lloyd George, no doubt When his life ebbs out Will ride in a flaming chariot; Seated in state On a read hot plate 'Twixt Satan and Judas Iscariot.
Ananias that day To the Devil will say, 'My claim for precedence fails. Move me up higher Away from the fire, And make way for that liar - from Wales!'
Unfortunately though 'bad Al' works as a substitute for the first two words, I'm struggling to find a decent rhyme for the last one to match Campbell. Any suggestions?
Party members who vote for another party can do so with impunity - provided they keep it to themselves. Were I still a party activist and encountered party members who had voted LibDem , Green or whatever, I would have no hesitation in reporting them.
Party members who vote for another party can do so with impunity - provided they keep it to themselves. Were I still a party activist and encountered party members who had voted LibDem , Green or whatever, I would have no hesitation in reporting them.
> This will start to detoxify politicians of Blair's generation in the eyes of younger pro-European Momentum activists, rather than start to remove them.
>
> Very, very stupid.
Campbell is beyond redemption. He's going to hell with Blair.
Famous ditty from the 1920s:
Lloyd George, no doubt When his life ebbs out Will ride in a flaming chariot; Seated in state On a read hot plate 'Twixt Satan and Judas Iscariot.
Ananias that day To the Devil will say, 'My claim for precedence fails. Move me up higher Away from the fire, And make way for that liar - from Wales!'
Unfortunately though 'bad Al' works as a substitute for the first two words, I'm struggling to find a decent rhyme for the last one to match Campbell. Any suggestions?
> @AndreaParma_82 said: > What is left of SLAB is collapsing right now. > Left winger Neil Findlay resigns from shadow cabinet and announces he will stand down in 2021. > Daniel Johnson (moderate) is considering quitting shadow cabinet too. > Labour MSPs group meeting takes place this afternoon
They are going to have to reassess their opposition to independence. Even a neutral position would help them. Right now they’re simply aping the Tories, and you just can’t out-Tory the Tories.
> @justin124 said: > @Mysticrose said: > > > @tlg86 said: > > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party. > > > > That's unbelievable > > > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum > > Frankly I would have expected nothing else - ditto the Tories expelling Widdecombe. If you belong to a political party , and reveal that you have now supported another party in preference to your own I believe you have to accept that your membership will be withdrawn. Why should such a person continue to have any voting rights within the party? The Tories should also expel Heseltine.
But there are many thousands of Labour members who voted for the LDs, me included, and the message this sends is that the party no longer wants us or our votes and we might as well f*ck off. A letter of admonishment and maybe a brief period of suspension would be a more sensible way of dealing with Campbell. The contrast with the handling of antisemitism cases is stark.
> @StuartDickson said: > > @AndreaParma_82 said: > > What is left of SLAB is collapsing right now. > > Left winger Neil Findlay resigns from shadow cabinet and announces he will stand down in 2021. > > Daniel Johnson (moderate) is considering quitting shadow cabinet too. > > Labour MSPs group meeting takes place this afternoon > > They are going to have to reassess their opposition to independence. Even a neutral position would help them. Right now they’re simply aping the Tories, and you just can’t out-Tory the Tories.
Isn't the problem the lack of opposition to Independence ?
> @StuartDickson said: > > @AndreaParma_82 said: > > What is left of SLAB is collapsing right now. > > Left winger Neil Findlay resigns from shadow cabinet and announces he will stand down in 2021. > > Daniel Johnson (moderate) is considering quitting shadow cabinet too. > > Labour MSPs group meeting takes place this afternoon > > They are going to have to reassess their opposition to independence. Even a neutral position would help them. Right now they’re simply aping the Tories, and you just can’t out-Tory the Tories.
The trouble is that the centrist Blairite wing that Leonard & co crushed still think that SLab haven't stood up enough for the 55% that voted No in 2014, wee Dougie Alexander was on R4 pushing that very line this morning. All the folk that might have helped them to think their way out of this dilemma have left, or are dead.
> @anothernick said: > > @justin124 said: > > @Mysticrose said: > > > > @tlg86 said: > > > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party. > > > > > > That's unbelievable > > > > > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum > > > > Frankly I would have expected nothing else - ditto the Tories expelling Widdecombe. If you belong to a political party , and reveal that you have now supported another party in preference to your own I believe you have to accept that your membership will be withdrawn. Why should such a person continue to have any voting rights within the party? The Tories should also expel Heseltine. > > But there are many thousands of Labour members who voted for the LDs, me included, and the message this sends is that the party no longer wants us or our votes and we might as well f*ck off. A letter of admonishment and maybe a brief period of suspension would be a more sensible way of dealing with Campbell. The contrast with the handling of antisemitism cases is stark.
I disagree. If your differences with the party are such that you no longer feel able to support its candidates , then you should cease to be a member.
23 Labour MSPs (although invisible today) is likely to be seen as a high point in the foreseeable future.
The Greens with 6 MSPs and the SLDs with 5 MSPs might look to be miles behind, but it actually wouldn’t take much switching for SLab to end up in fifth place. Keir Hardie, John Smith and Donald Dewar must be spinning in their graves.
> @justin124 said: > > @anothernick said: > > > @justin124 said: > > > @Mysticrose said: > > > > > @tlg86 said: > > > > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party. > > > > > > > > That's unbelievable > > > > > > > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum > > > > > > Frankly I would have expected nothing else - ditto the Tories expelling Widdecombe. If you belong to a political party , and reveal that you have now supported another party in preference to your own I believe you have to accept that your membership will be withdrawn. Why should such a person continue to have any voting rights within the party? The Tories should also expel Heseltine. > > > > But there are many thousands of Labour members who voted for the LDs, me included, and the message this sends is that the party no longer wants us or our votes and we might as well f*ck off. A letter of admonishment and maybe a brief period of suspension would be a more sensible way of dealing with Campbell. The contrast with the handling of antisemitism cases is stark. > > I disagree. If your differences with the party are such that you no longer feel able to support its candidates , then you should cease to be a member. What would be totally wrong would be to treat Campbell differently because he happens to be high profile.
> @justin124 said: > I disagree. If your differences with the party are such that you no longer feel able to support its candidates , then you should cease to be a member.
Agreed. I don't often defend Labour, let alone Corbyn's Labour but this is a long-established rule that is there for a reason. Its also one that Campbell knew full well about.
> @TGOHF said: > > @StuartDickson said: > > > @AndreaParma_82 said: > > > What is left of SLAB is collapsing right now. > > > Left winger Neil Findlay resigns from shadow cabinet and announces he will stand down in 2021. > > > Daniel Johnson (moderate) is considering quitting shadow cabinet too. > > > Labour MSPs group meeting takes place this afternoon > > > > They are going to have to reassess their opposition to independence. Even a neutral position would help them. Right now they’re simply aping the Tories, and you just can’t out-Tory the Tories. > > Isn't the problem the lack of opposition to Independence ? >
> @Morris_Dancer said: > Good afternoon, everyone. > > Any more Rory the Tory stories?
Rory is buying a pipe and smoking jacket to complete the Macmillan comparisons, but he's going to Wigan to finish campaigning first.
Who was it posted about him having support among non-Boris Conservative Party members at the moment ? That's what I'm most interested in, because together with his apparent appeal to current non-Tories, it could give him a future.
> This will start to detoxify politicians of Blair's generation in the eyes of younger pro-European Momentum activists, rather than start to remove them.
>
> Very, very stupid.
Campbell is beyond redemption. He's going to hell with Blair.
Famous ditty from the 1920s:
Lloyd George, no doubt When his life ebbs out Will ride in a flaming chariot; Seated in state On a read hot plate 'Twixt Satan and Judas Iscariot.
Ananias that day To the Devil will say, 'My claim for precedence fails. Move me up higher Away from the fire, And make way for that liar - from Wales!'
Unfortunately though 'bad Al' works as a substitute for the first two words, I'm struggling to find a decent rhyme for the last one to match Campbell. Any suggestions?
> @justin124 said: > > @anothernick said: > > > @justin124 said: > > > @Mysticrose said: > > > > > @tlg86 said: > > > > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party. > > > > > > > > That's unbelievable > > > > > > > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum > > > > > > Frankly I would have expected nothing else - ditto the Tories expelling Widdecombe. If you belong to a political party , and reveal that you have now supported another party in preference to your own I believe you have to accept that your membership will be withdrawn. Why should such a person continue to have any voting rights within the party? The Tories should also expel Heseltine. > > > > But there are many thousands of Labour members who voted for the LDs, me included, and the message this sends is that the party no longer wants us or our votes and we might as well f*ck off. A letter of admonishment and maybe a brief period of suspension would be a more sensible way of dealing with Campbell. The contrast with the handling of antisemitism cases is stark. > > I disagree. If your differences with the party are such that you no longer feel able to support its candidates , then you should cease to be a member.
Somebody should try making a twitter account with a wildcard name like * or % or something and tweet that you voted LibDem, see if you can make them auto-exclude everybody in the database. At this point I reckon throwing out everybody in the Labour Party and starting again from scratch is the only way to fix it.
Do you reckon they’d accept as a name DELETE FROM MEMBERS ?
I assume the LD market hasn't settled because LD got >20% GB (widely reported) and <20% UK (not much reported). Rules clearly say UK but who knows??
Now at 1.35 if you're feeling confident...
Votes Lib Dem Northern Ireland 577275 0 North West 1715735 297507 North East 619854 104330 West Mids 1279904 219982 East Mids 1183227 203989 Eastern 1598455 361563 South West 1676173 385095 South East 2538945 653743 Yorkshire 1289277 200180 Wales 836195 113885 Scotland 1571226 218285 London 2241681 608725
For 19.6% I make it going through the areas by hand
Wasn't there a case about 10 years ago involving French parents who chastised their unruly offspring in the traditional manner and were brought back from France to face Scottish justice?
> @TGOHF said: > Looking forward to the next Indyref and the language of Brexit applied to it. > > Are you in favour of a hard or soft Sindy ? > > Will the negotiations be by sequencing ? > > Will the withdrawal agreement pass through Holyrood ? > > Will there be a people's vote on the withdrawal agreement ? If not why not ? > ---------
When you say "looking forward", presumably you mean it's dawned on you that it's inevitable, and that you'll lose.
> @Pulpstar said: > Another day, another argument about BF rules. > > > > I assume the LD market hasn't settled because LD got >20% GB (widely reported) and <20% UK (not much reported). Rules clearly say UK but who knows?? > > > > Now at 1.35 if you're feeling confident... > > Votes Lib Dem > Northern Ireland 577275 0 > North West 1715735 297507 > North East 619854 104330 > West Mids 1279904 219982 > East Mids 1183227 203989 > Eastern 1598455 361563 > South West 1676173 385095 > South East 2538945 653743 > Yorkshire 1289277 200180 > Wales 836195 113885 > Scotland 1571226 218285 > London 2241681 608725 > > For 19.6% I make it going through the areas by hand
Shed no tear for Campbell. He's a fascinating man, but his impact on Labour has been malign. And, advocating that people vote against your own party is a no no.
> @justin124 said: > > @justin124 said: > > > @anothernick said: > > > > @justin124 said: > > > > @Mysticrose said: > > > > > > @tlg86 said: > > > > > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party. > > > > > > > > > > That's unbelievable > > > > > > > > > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum > > > > > > > > Frankly I would have expected nothing else - ditto the Tories expelling Widdecombe. If you belong to a political party , and reveal that you have now supported another party in preference to your own I believe you have to accept that your membership will be withdrawn. Why should such a person continue to have any voting rights within the party? The Tories should also expel Heseltine. > > > > > > But there are many thousands of Labour members who voted for the LDs, me included, and the message this sends is that the party no longer wants us or our votes and we might as well f*ck off. A letter of admonishment and maybe a brief period of suspension would be a more sensible way of dealing with Campbell. The contrast with the handling of antisemitism cases is stark. > > > > I disagree. If your differences with the party are such that you no longer feel able to support its candidates , then you should cease to be a member. What would be totally wrong would be to treat Campbell differently because he happens to be high profile. > >
Do you think Jeremy Corbyn voted Labour in the 2000 London mayoral election? Because I don't. Like many Labour Party members he voted for Ken. But the leadership at the time was sensible enough to realise that it would be self-defeating and aggravate division to move against members who did not support the party at that election.
I guess that is Paul Staines the kindred spirit of the egotist Boris Johnson, also the same Paul Staines who is co-founder of a company that according to wiki is an advisor to the Russian Embassy on social media.
Nice company these Brexiteers keep. So much for them being patriots!
> @Sandpit said: > Somebody should try making a twitter account with a wildcard name like * or % or something and tweet that you voted LibDem, see if you can make them auto-exclude everybody in the database. At this point I reckon throwing out everybody in the Labour Party and starting again from scratch is the only way to fix it. > > Do you reckon they’d accept as a name DELETE FROM MEMBERS ?
> @Pulpstar said: > Another day, another argument about BF rules. > > > > I assume the LD market hasn't settled because LD got >20% GB (widely reported) and <20% UK (not much reported). Rules clearly say UK but who knows?? > > > > Now at 1.35 if you're feeling confident... > > Votes Lib Dem > Northern Ireland 577275 0 > North West 1715735 297507 > North East 619854 104330 > West Mids 1279904 219982 > East Mids 1183227 203989 > Eastern 1598455 361563 > South West 1676173 385095 > South East 2538945 653743 > Yorkshire 1289277 200180 > Wales 836195 113885 > Scotland 1571226 218285 > London 2241681 608725 > > For 19.6% I make it going through the areas by hand
I note the meme going round showing pro-Brexit parties winning 35% and anti-Brexit parties 40%. That's definitely a dodgy bar-chart. Since when did the Tories cease to be pro-Brexit? I voted for them on that basis.
> @Sean_F said: > > Shed no tear for Campbell. He's a fascinating man, but his impact on Labour has been malign. And, advocating that people vote against your own party is a no no.
Voting against your own party leader is OK though apparently, according to many Brexit obsessives.
> @williamglenn said: > > @TGOHF said: > > Looking forward to the next Indyref and the language of Brexit applied to it. > > > > Are you in favour of a hard or soft Sindy ? > > > > Will the negotiations be by sequencing ? > > > > Will the withdrawal agreement pass through Holyrood ? > > > > Will there be a people's vote on the withdrawal agreement ? If not why not ? > > > --------- > > When you say "looking forward", presumably you mean it's dawned on you that it's inevitable, and that you'll lose.
Westminster will not agree to such a Referendum for quite some years. Sturgeon doubtless knows that with her statement yesterday simply being a means to make it a live issue at the 2021 Holyrood elections.
> @Sean_F said: > > I note the meme going round showing pro-Brexit parties winning 35% and anti-Brexit parties 40%. That's definitely a dodgy bar-chart. Since when did the Tories cease to be pro-Brexit? I voted for them on that basis.
It's excluding the middle.
I don't think it's wrong to put the parties into THREE categories - but failing to mention the third one is a fallacy.
Do you think Jeremy Corbyn voted Labour in the 2000 London mayoral election? Because I don't. Like many Labour Party members he voted for Ken. But the leadership at the time was sensible enough to realise that it would be self-defeating and aggravate division to move against members who did not support the party at that election.
Pity in a way. Just think how much better off Labour would be now if Blair had acted to eradicate the hard left for good and all.
> @Nigel_Foremain said: > > @Sean_F said: > > > > Shed no tear for Campbell. He's a fascinating man, but his impact on Labour has been malign. And, advocating that people vote against your own party is a no no. > > Voting against your own party leader is OK though apparently, according to many Brexit obsessives.
Being a rebel in Parliament is not the same as voting for another party in an election. The latter is comparable to an MP voting against the Whip on a VNOC.
> @StuartDickson said: > > @Morris_Dancer said: > > Good afternoon, everyone. > > > > Any more Rory the Tory stories? > > Rory is a proper Tory. > > Boris is just a pathetic attention-seeker. > > Gove is a Dr Stangelove character. > > Raab has that Howard darkness thing going on. > > Whereas Rory looks like he’d never put his elbows on the table and he knows how to treat a napkin.
> @ydoethur said: > Do you think Jeremy Corbyn voted Labour in the 2000 London mayoral election? > Because I don't. Like many Labour Party members he voted for Ken. But the leadership at the time was sensible enough to realise that it would be self-defeating and aggravate division to move against members who did not support the party at that election. > > Pity in a way. Just think how much better off Labour would be now if Blair had acted to eradicate the hard left for good and all.
I have no doubt that had he declared his support for Livingstone , he would have been expelled.
> @_Anazina_ said: > Meanwhile, while an almost empty Holyrood discusses whether children can be smacked or not: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48431820 > > Was it a hard hitting debate? > > I'll get my coat. > > I hope so. Violence against children is a serious business, probably not a topic I’d mock with bad puns TBH.
> @justin124 said: > Westminster will not agree to such a Referendum for quite some years. Sturgeon doubtless knows that with her statement yesterday simply being a means to make it a live issue at the 2021 Holyrood elections.
I suppose moving from 'We'd still win it but we're not going to allow you a referendum cos reasons' to 'We're not going to allow you a referendum cos we'd lose it' is progress of a sort.
Comments
Clare Daly (Ind4Change, Socialists) overtakes Andrews (FF) even before Sinn Fein's elimination.
So the dispute about if redistributing the SF's transfers won't matter much. Daly takes third seat and Andrews the 4th which will be freezed until Brexit.
> > @madmacs said:
> > Sorry for Campbell. There must be thousands of Tory members who voted Brexit on Thursday as well as Labour members voting Green or Lib Dem. Campbell's crime was to admit it on tv. Good job we have a secret ballot for the rest of us.
>
> I think it is actually quite common for members to vote for another party. I’ve done it myself.
But did you reveal that in public?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pOqqyFH7cU
> > @isam said:
> > Bad Al is not one of the good guys, even if Corbyn were the vilest of anti semites
>
> Disagree. He's a Burnley fan
Which only goes to prove that there is light and shade in us all Mike.
> Surprised how sharp the odds are on the CL final. Spurs 16/5 - in 90 minutes presumably. Are they that unlikely to win?
Dunno. But I'm on them at 25-1
Left winger Neil Findlay resigns from shadow cabinet and announces he will stand down in 2021.
Daniel Johnson (moderate) is considering quitting shadow cabinet too.
Labour MSPs group meeting takes place this afternoon
> > @Yorkcity said:
> > > @ydoethur said:
> > > It's rather amusing that Campbell, one of the chief architects of the Iraq War, is finally booted out of Labour for voting for the Liberal Democrats.
> >
> > I thought he was a press officer , not commander in chief.
> > Main architetect, you do spout some crap.
>
> Campbell had far more power in New Labour than almost anyone.
He had no power over George w Bush.
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1133358811715133440
'Oxbridge Remainers' is now a thing apparently.
> Clare Daly (Ind4Change, Socialists) overtakes Andrews (FF) even before Sinn Fein's elimination.
>
> So the dispute about if redistributing the SF's transfers won't matter much. Daly takes third seat and Andrews the 4th which will be freezed until Brexit.
It was after a recount though as I thought Andrews was ahead last night after the Social Democrat votes were distributed. Maybe they should go back to count 1 and start again.....They might have a result by Halloween when we leave?
> @FrancisUrquhart said:
> Amazing how it took what felt like 27 years to decide if Red Ken might need ejecting from the Labour Party as needed to go through a massive long winded process, but Bad Al, straight out the door.
But Livingstone WAS expelled from the Labour Party in the late 1990s for standing as an Independent candidate against Labour's Frank Dobson.
Or if we take the deal we'll have had our chips?
We need to get our just desserts?
> https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1133360426048217088
Maybe he is hoping with Bonking Boris as PM there will be so many scandals that it will be very good for business?
> Cleverly, a black Brexiteer, would stymie Farage and Corbyn I think. He comes across as reasonable and normal, a lot going for him in my opinion
Agree with that. I've been on him for months.
So it seems this is the procedure...may be relevant for South where there is another Brexit frozen seat
> > @twistedfirestopper3 said:
> > > @Yorkcity said:
> > > > @ydoethur said:
> > > > It's rather amusing that Campbell, one of the chief architects of the Iraq War, is finally booted out of Labour for voting for the Liberal Democrats.
> > >
> > > I thought he was a press officer , not commander in chief.
> > > Main architetect, you do spout some crap.
> >
> > Campbell had far more power in New Labour than almost anyone.
>
> He had no power over George w Bush.
He had the power to convince the country Bush was correct.
> > @tlg86 said:
> > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
>
> That's unbelievable
>
> The lunatics have taken over the asylum
Frankly I would have expected nothing else - ditto the Tories expelling Widdecombe. If you belong to a political party , and reveal that you have now supported another party in preference to your own I believe you have to accept that your membership will be withdrawn. Why should such a person continue to have any voting rights within the party? The Tories should also expel Heseltine.
They can draw on that experience now...
> https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1133360426048217088
>
> His campaign has been lacklustre and needed a display of fireworks.
An incendiary suggestion.
> @Mysticrose said:
> > > @tlg86 said:
> > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
> >
> > That's unbelievable
> >
> > The lunatics have taken over the asylum
>
> Frankly I would have expected nothing else - ditto the Tories expelling Widdecombe. If you belong to a political party , and reveal that you have now supported another party in preference to your own I believe you have to accept that your membership will be withdrawn. Why should such a person continue to have any voting rights within the party? The Tories should also expel Heseltine.
Has it struck you, in light of the results, that instead of punishing those people they might look at themselves?
The Tories and Labour have pressed self-destruct.
> > @Scott_P said:
> > twitter.com/PCollinsTimes/status/1133319274574045185
>
> Balfour lost his own seat as PM. You'd expect the Times to know that (or use Google or phone the in-house librarian). It has come up before on pb.
>
> https://www.gov.uk/government/history/past-prime-ministers/arthur-james-balfour
Balfour lost his seat at the January 1906 election but had resigned as PM early in December 1905 so was Leader of the Opposition when defeated.
> Uh oh, now no-deal is better than any deal.
>
> https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1133358811715133440
>
> 'Oxbridge Remainers' is now a thing apparently.
>
Father Jack has called, and wants his hairstyle and complexion back.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D7qDdvEXsAce2qB.jpg:large
> https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1133360426048217088
Good for Boris for getting someone who knows what they are doing to run the social media campaign.
What he did do - and here it gets much murkier - is he had he power to convince people Blair had legitimate reasons for joining the invasion. Now, as it happens, Blair may have done - probably did - but hey appear to have been based on reasoning and deduction rather than hard evidence. What Campbell did, in typical Campbell fashion, was to provide evidence and overhype it.
The odd thing is, it seems he really did tell what he thought was the truth - and it turned out to be false.
Karma's a bitch.
(Ironically)
I wonder if we could see something like Brex 20, Tory 20, Labour 20, LD 20.
Don't hold me to it, though..
Boris 2.94
Raab 6.8
Gove 7
Leadsom 11
Hunt 15.5
https://twitter.com/ChloeMinish/status/1133360980879187969
https://twitter.com/ChloeMinish/status/1133361663078555648
> https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1133362626795380736
Has someone told him how much of a boost the landings were for his side as they distracted the Germans from the Eastern front ?
> https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1133362626795380736
I bet the troops are thrilled at that news.
>twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1133362626795380736
But will he be involved?
> > @Scott_P said:
> > https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1133360426048217088
>
> Good for Boris for getting someone who knows what they are doing to run the social media campaign.
The dream team!
AKA The Sleaze Balls
> What is left of SLAB is collapsing right now.
> Left winger Neil Findlay resigns from shadow cabinet and announces he will stand down in 2021.
> Daniel Johnson (moderate) is considering quitting shadow cabinet too.
> Labour MSPs group meeting takes place this afternoon
They are going to have to reassess their opposition to independence. Even a neutral position would help them. Right now they’re simply aping the Tories, and you just can’t out-Tory the Tories.
> @Mysticrose said:
> > > @tlg86 said:
> > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
> >
> > That's unbelievable
> >
> > The lunatics have taken over the asylum
>
> Frankly I would have expected nothing else - ditto the Tories expelling Widdecombe. If you belong to a political party , and reveal that you have now supported another party in preference to your own I believe you have to accept that your membership will be withdrawn. Why should such a person continue to have any voting rights within the party? The Tories should also expel Heseltine.
But there are many thousands of Labour members who voted for the LDs, me included, and the message this sends is that the party no longer wants us or our votes and we might as well f*ck off. A letter of admonishment and maybe a brief period of suspension would be a more sensible way of dealing with Campbell. The contrast with the handling of antisemitism cases is stark.
> > @AndreaParma_82 said:
> > What is left of SLAB is collapsing right now.
> > Left winger Neil Findlay resigns from shadow cabinet and announces he will stand down in 2021.
> > Daniel Johnson (moderate) is considering quitting shadow cabinet too.
> > Labour MSPs group meeting takes place this afternoon
>
> They are going to have to reassess their opposition to independence. Even a neutral position would help them. Right now they’re simply aping the Tories, and you just can’t out-Tory the Tories.
Isn't the problem the lack of opposition to Independence ?
> > @AndreaParma_82 said:
> > What is left of SLAB is collapsing right now.
> > Left winger Neil Findlay resigns from shadow cabinet and announces he will stand down in 2021.
> > Daniel Johnson (moderate) is considering quitting shadow cabinet too.
> > Labour MSPs group meeting takes place this afternoon
>
> They are going to have to reassess their opposition to independence. Even a neutral position would help them. Right now they’re simply aping the Tories, and you just can’t out-Tory the Tories.
The trouble is that the centrist Blairite wing that Leonard & co crushed still think that SLab haven't stood up enough for the 55% that voted No in 2014, wee Dougie Alexander was on R4 pushing that very line this morning. All the folk that might have helped them to think their way out of this dilemma have left, or are dead.
> > @GIN1138 said:
> > > @Scott_P said:
> > > https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1133360426048217088
> >
Boris's bag straps are shining with his messy golden hair here in such a way as to make it look as if he's just recovering from a milkshaking.
> > @justin124 said:
> > @Mysticrose said:
> > > > @tlg86 said:
> > > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
> > >
> > > That's unbelievable
> > >
> > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum
> >
> > Frankly I would have expected nothing else - ditto the Tories expelling Widdecombe. If you belong to a political party , and reveal that you have now supported another party in preference to your own I believe you have to accept that your membership will be withdrawn. Why should such a person continue to have any voting rights within the party? The Tories should also expel Heseltine.
>
> But there are many thousands of Labour members who voted for the LDs, me included, and the message this sends is that the party no longer wants us or our votes and we might as well f*ck off. A letter of admonishment and maybe a brief period of suspension would be a more sensible way of dealing with Campbell. The contrast with the handling of antisemitism cases is stark.
I disagree. If your differences with the party are such that you no longer feel able to support its candidates , then you should cease to be a member.
> https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1133360772590067712
23 Labour MSPs (although invisible today) is likely to be seen as a high point in the foreseeable future.
The Greens with 6 MSPs and the SLDs with 5 MSPs might look to be miles behind, but it actually wouldn’t take much switching for SLab to end up in fifth place. Keir Hardie, John Smith and Donald Dewar must be spinning in their graves.
Are you in favour of a hard or soft Sindy ?
Will the negotiations be by sequencing ?
Will the withdrawal agreement pass through Holyrood ?
Will there be a people's vote on the withdrawal agreement ? If not why not ?
> > @anothernick said:
> > > @justin124 said:
> > > @Mysticrose said:
> > > > > @tlg86 said:
> > > > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
> > > >
> > > > That's unbelievable
> > > >
> > > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum
> > >
> > > Frankly I would have expected nothing else - ditto the Tories expelling Widdecombe. If you belong to a political party , and reveal that you have now supported another party in preference to your own I believe you have to accept that your membership will be withdrawn. Why should such a person continue to have any voting rights within the party? The Tories should also expel Heseltine.
> >
> > But there are many thousands of Labour members who voted for the LDs, me included, and the message this sends is that the party no longer wants us or our votes and we might as well f*ck off. A letter of admonishment and maybe a brief period of suspension would be a more sensible way of dealing with Campbell. The contrast with the handling of antisemitism cases is stark.
>
> I disagree. If your differences with the party are such that you no longer feel able to support its candidates , then you should cease to be a member. What would be totally wrong would be to treat Campbell differently because he happens to be high profile.
Oh, is that unsafe as well? Bugger.
Brendan O'Neill (one of Plato's [RIP] favs)
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/05/britains-brexit-split-is-finally-out-in-the-open/
I assume the LD market hasn't settled because LD got >20% GB (widely reported) and <20% UK (not much reported). Rules clearly say UK but who knows??
Now at 1.35 if you're feeling confident...
> https://twitter.com/DaveyLockhart/status/1133367011478769664
What's been happening for a while is that people don't ask him to stand down. They simply leave the room and don't come back.
> I disagree. If your differences with the party are such that you no longer feel able to support its candidates , then you should cease to be a member.
Agreed. I don't often defend Labour, let alone Corbyn's Labour but this is a long-established rule that is there for a reason. Its also one that Campbell knew full well about.
> https://twitter.com/stephenpollard/status/1133364810370957313
Perhaps we need Septa Unella and her bell to walk next to Labour MPs whenever they are out and about
Any more Rory the Tory stories?
> > @StuartDickson said:
> > > @AndreaParma_82 said:
> > > What is left of SLAB is collapsing right now.
> > > Left winger Neil Findlay resigns from shadow cabinet and announces he will stand down in 2021.
> > > Daniel Johnson (moderate) is considering quitting shadow cabinet too.
> > > Labour MSPs group meeting takes place this afternoon
> >
> > They are going to have to reassess their opposition to independence. Even a neutral position would help them. Right now they’re simply aping the Tories, and you just can’t out-Tory the Tories.
>
> Isn't the problem the lack of opposition to Independence ?
>
You never watch BBC Scotland? You lucky bugger.
Boris stable
Not words you will find uttered outside of betting odds
> Good afternoon, everyone.
>
> Any more Rory the Tory stories?
Rory is buying a pipe and smoking jacket to complete the Macmillan comparisons, but he's going to Wigan to finish campaigning first.
Who was it posted about him having support among non-Boris Conservative Party members at the moment ? That's what I'm most interested in, because together with his apparent appeal to current non-Tories, it could give him a future.
> Good afternoon, everyone.
>
> Any more Rory the Tory stories?
Rory is a proper Tory.
Boris is just a pathetic attention-seeker.
Gove is a Dr Stangelove character.
Raab has that Howard darkness thing going on.
Whereas Rory looks like he’d never put his elbows on the table and he knows how to treat a napkin.
> > @anothernick said:
> > > @justin124 said:
> > > @Mysticrose said:
> > > > > @tlg86 said:
> > > > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
> > > >
> > > > That's unbelievable
> > > >
> > > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum
> > >
> > > Frankly I would have expected nothing else - ditto the Tories expelling Widdecombe. If you belong to a political party , and reveal that you have now supported another party in preference to your own I believe you have to accept that your membership will be withdrawn. Why should such a person continue to have any voting rights within the party? The Tories should also expel Heseltine.
> >
> > But there are many thousands of Labour members who voted for the LDs, me included, and the message this sends is that the party no longer wants us or our votes and we might as well f*ck off. A letter of admonishment and maybe a brief period of suspension would be a more sensible way of dealing with Campbell. The contrast with the handling of antisemitism cases is stark.
>
> I disagree. If your differences with the party are such that you no longer feel able to support its candidates , then you should cease to be a member.
Total and utter simplistic bollox.
> https://twitter.com/DaveyLockhart/status/1133367011478769664
Somebody up there loves the SNP.
Northern Ireland 577275 0
North West 1715735 297507
North East 619854 104330
West Mids 1279904 219982
East Mids 1183227 203989
Eastern 1598455 361563
South West 1676173 385095
South East 2538945 653743
Yorkshire 1289277 200180
Wales 836195 113885
Scotland 1571226 218285
London 2241681 608725
For 19.6% I make it going through the areas by hand
> Looking forward to the next Indyref and the language of Brexit applied to it.
>
> Are you in favour of a hard or soft Sindy ?
>
> Will the negotiations be by sequencing ?
>
> Will the withdrawal agreement pass through Holyrood ?
>
> Will there be a people's vote on the withdrawal agreement ? If not why not ?
>
---------
When you say "looking forward", presumably you mean it's dawned on you that it's inevitable, and that you'll lose.
I'll get my coat.
> Another day, another argument about BF rules.
>
>
>
> I assume the LD market hasn't settled because LD got >20% GB (widely reported) and <20% UK (not much reported). Rules clearly say UK but who knows??
>
>
>
> Now at 1.35 if you're feeling confident...
>
> Votes Lib Dem
> Northern Ireland 577275 0
> North West 1715735 297507
> North East 619854 104330
> West Mids 1279904 219982
> East Mids 1183227 203989
> Eastern 1598455 361563
> South West 1676173 385095
> South East 2538945 653743
> Yorkshire 1289277 200180
> Wales 836195 113885
> Scotland 1571226 218285
> London 2241681 608725
>
> For 19.6% I make it going through the areas by hand
You can calculate it directly:
3,367,284/17,199,701 = 19.6%
This is all rules risk and no factual argument.
> > @justin124 said:
> > > @anothernick said:
> > > > @justin124 said:
> > > > @Mysticrose said:
> > > > > > @tlg86 said:
> > > > > > Sky News reporting that Bad Al has been kicked out of the Labour Party.
> > > > >
> > > > > That's unbelievable
> > > > >
> > > > > The lunatics have taken over the asylum
> > > >
> > > > Frankly I would have expected nothing else - ditto the Tories expelling Widdecombe. If you belong to a political party , and reveal that you have now supported another party in preference to your own I believe you have to accept that your membership will be withdrawn. Why should such a person continue to have any voting rights within the party? The Tories should also expel Heseltine.
> > >
> > > But there are many thousands of Labour members who voted for the LDs, me included, and the message this sends is that the party no longer wants us or our votes and we might as well f*ck off. A letter of admonishment and maybe a brief period of suspension would be a more sensible way of dealing with Campbell. The contrast with the handling of antisemitism cases is stark.
> >
> > I disagree. If your differences with the party are such that you no longer feel able to support its candidates , then you should cease to be a member. What would be totally wrong would be to treat Campbell differently because he happens to be high profile.
>
>
Do you think Jeremy Corbyn voted Labour in the 2000 London mayoral election?
Because I don't. Like many Labour Party members he voted for Ken. But the leadership at the time was sensible enough to realise that it would be self-defeating and aggravate division to move against members who did not support the party at that election.
> > @GIN1138 said:
> > > @Scott_P said:
> > > https://twitter.com/OborneTweets/status/1133360426048217088
> >
> > Good for Boris for getting someone who knows what they are doing to run the social media campaign.
>
> The dream team!
>
> AKA The Sleaze Balls
I guess that is Paul Staines the kindred spirit of the egotist Boris Johnson, also the same Paul Staines who is co-founder of a company that according to wiki is an advisor to the Russian Embassy on social media.
Nice company these Brexiteers keep. So much for them being patriots!
> Somebody should try making a twitter account with a wildcard name like * or % or something and tweet that you voted LibDem, see if you can make them auto-exclude everybody in the database. At this point I reckon throwing out everybody in the Labour Party and starting again from scratch is the only way to fix it.
>
> Do you reckon they’d accept as a name DELETE FROM MEMBERS ?
No doubt you have in mind:
https://xkcd.com/327/
> Another day, another argument about BF rules.
>
>
>
> I assume the LD market hasn't settled because LD got >20% GB (widely reported) and <20% UK (not much reported). Rules clearly say UK but who knows??
>
>
>
> Now at 1.35 if you're feeling confident...
>
> Votes Lib Dem
> Northern Ireland 577275 0
> North West 1715735 297507
> North East 619854 104330
> West Mids 1279904 219982
> East Mids 1183227 203989
> Eastern 1598455 361563
> South West 1676173 385095
> South East 2538945 653743
> Yorkshire 1289277 200180
> Wales 836195 113885
> Scotland 1571226 218285
> London 2241681 608725
>
> For 19.6% I make it going through the areas by hand
I note the meme going round showing pro-Brexit parties winning 35% and anti-Brexit parties 40%. That's definitely a dodgy bar-chart. Since when did the Tories cease to be pro-Brexit? I voted for them on that basis.
>
> Shed no tear for Campbell. He's a fascinating man, but his impact on Labour has been malign. And, advocating that people vote against your own party is a no no.
Voting against your own party leader is OK though apparently, according to many Brexit obsessives.
> > @TGOHF said:
> > Looking forward to the next Indyref and the language of Brexit applied to it.
> >
> > Are you in favour of a hard or soft Sindy ?
> >
> > Will the negotiations be by sequencing ?
> >
> > Will the withdrawal agreement pass through Holyrood ?
> >
> > Will there be a people's vote on the withdrawal agreement ? If not why not ?
> >
> ---------
>
> When you say "looking forward", presumably you mean it's dawned on you that it's inevitable, and that you'll lose.
Westminster will not agree to such a Referendum for quite some years. Sturgeon doubtless knows that with her statement yesterday simply being a means to make it a live issue at the 2021 Holyrood elections.
>
> I note the meme going round showing pro-Brexit parties winning 35% and anti-Brexit parties 40%. That's definitely a dodgy bar-chart. Since when did the Tories cease to be pro-Brexit? I voted for them on that basis.
It's excluding the middle.
I don't think it's wrong to put the parties into THREE categories - but failing to mention the third one is a fallacy.
> > @Sean_F said:
> >
> > Shed no tear for Campbell. He's a fascinating man, but his impact on Labour has been malign. And, advocating that people vote against your own party is a no no.
>
> Voting against your own party leader is OK though apparently, according to many Brexit obsessives.
Being a rebel in Parliament is not the same as voting for another party in an election. The latter is comparable to an MP voting against the Whip on a VNOC.
> > @Morris_Dancer said:
> > Good afternoon, everyone.
> >
> > Any more Rory the Tory stories?
>
> Rory is a proper Tory.
>
> Boris is just a pathetic attention-seeker.
>
> Gove is a Dr Stangelove character.
>
> Raab has that Howard darkness thing going on.
>
> Whereas Rory looks like he’d never put his elbows on the table and he knows how to treat a napkin.
That is pretty good!
> Do you think Jeremy Corbyn voted Labour in the 2000 London mayoral election?
> Because I don't. Like many Labour Party members he voted for Ken. But the leadership at the time was sensible enough to realise that it would be self-defeating and aggravate division to move against members who did not support the party at that election.
>
> Pity in a way. Just think how much better off Labour would be now if Blair had acted to eradicate the hard left for good and all.
I have no doubt that had he declared his support for Livingstone , he would have been expelled.
> Meanwhile, while an almost empty Holyrood discusses whether children can be smacked or not: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48431820
>
> Was it a hard hitting debate?
>
> I'll get my coat.
>
> I hope so. Violence against children is a serious business, probably not a topic I’d mock with bad puns TBH.
Raising children is just like raising dogs.
> Westminster will not agree to such a Referendum for quite some years. Sturgeon doubtless knows that with her statement yesterday simply being a means to make it a live issue at the 2021 Holyrood elections.
I suppose moving from 'We'd still win it but we're not going to allow you a referendum cos reasons' to 'We're not going to allow you a referendum cos we'd lose it' is progress of a sort.