I believe it is compulsory on election days to pass on essentially meaningless anecdotes. One of my colleagues had to queue to vote this morning. In his words: "this is Kingston, Remainer central".
Given that we have not left and that the current situation stems from people trying to prevent our leaving your point is wildly wrong.
It shows how hardcore Remainers never put themselves into the shoes of their ‘opponents’ that they don’t see that having a Remain PM and Parliament contrive to keep us in the EU, three years after we voted to Leave, might not feel like our side being given a go and failing.
> @Morris_Dancer said: > Mr. Pulpstar, I've ruled out pretty much everyone > > The parties I've got to choose from are: > Green - far left > Labour - no EU position and far left nutcases > Lib Dems - want a second referendum [to be honest, more honest and less rubbish than some positions] > Conservative - May's deal is rubbish (maybe least bad option?) but supporting them might prolong her political tenure, and she's a very poor PM > English Democrats - whilst I like the English Parliament policy I had heard here they were infiltrated by the remnants of the BNP, so no > UKIP - I think not > Yorkshire Party - carving England into shitty regional assemblies is not something I will support > Brexit Party - I'm sympathetic to a kick up the arse to those trying to frustrate the referendum result, but the rallies and 'lock her up' nonsense are unsettling and unwelcome (not to mention infantile and having all the nuance of Procopius' Secret History) > Oh, Change UK (forgot until just now) - like the Lib Dems, with less competence (and straight revocation would be... courageous) > > I think that's everyone.
Vote green, yes they are too far left but this election is not for significant power, and they will never have significant Westminster power under FPTP. The benefits of voting green are that the higher their vote, the more that other parties will have to come up with more workable green solutions for the future. Being green is something the UK can be great at, and be one of the countries to help lead the change across the planet.
It may not be the best ever reason to vote for a party, or even in the top half of reasons for voting for a party, but it is the best available this time around.
> > I agree Farage has always ensured that he never puts himself anywhere near a position where he might have to deliver something. > > Having never missed a vote in 50 years I have not voted at any level since the referendum and that goes for today as well. I accept that Brexity, Faragey Britain is what my fellow citizens want but as I don't see any good outcome from here I am indifferent to who runs Brexit Britain. I have given up on the country as the decision taken in 2016 is very unlikely to change during my lifetime. > > The only thing that interests me now is seeing how the new hardline Brexit leader gets on when they actually have to do something.
So you're actually voting Brexit? Leaving aside the issue itself, it does seem to me that the party - or rather the limited company - doesn't deserve your support. It has no programme whatsoever, an autocratic and eccentric leader with no internal checks on him, and its main appeal is rallies blaming everyone else. If you like Brexit but don't want a dangerous topping, I'd think that the Tories remain the default choice - they are clearly keen on doing it, mostly without being dangerously mad.
In a curious way, I think the two big losers expected today are actually the only parties who have tried to address the Brexit problem reasonably seriously. The Tories either want a semi-detached relationship (May's deal) or a hard Brexit with negotiations to cover the basics like aviation (Raab). Labour wants either a Brexit so close to membership that it's hard to tell the difference, or if that's not possible then Remain. All four of these options will enable Britain to escape the dilemma in more or less reasonable shape.
Despite everything, they're the adults in the room. The LibDems and Greens ("Bollocks!" "Referendum now!"), Brexit Party ("Farage!"), ChUK ("Revoke!"), UKIP ("Throw out the Muslims!") are all trying to maximise their sector of the half of Britain they agree with. It's a perfectly rational strategy for parties that don't aspire to government, but all of them will make a viable solution that doesn't sow permanent division harder.
The UN General Assembly votes by 116 votes to 6 that the UK should hand back the Chagoa Islands to Mauritius despite the UK's insistence they will only be handed back once they have ceased use as a defence base.
Only the USA, Israel, Australia, the Maldives and Hungary voted with the UK with France and Germany abstaining
Indeed, however because of Tory ERG diehard Brexiteers and Tory diehard Remainer rebels it will only pass with Labour rebels from Leave seats
After the 2017 general election it was quite clear that while there might be a mandate for Brexit, May's government had asked for, and been refused any mandate to dictate what form that might take, and that therefore compromise was essential.
May acted as though she still had that mandate, despite lacking either the democratic rationale or the parliamentary power to do so. Which is why we are where we are.
> @CD13 said: > There seems to be a lot of "We can't leave because it's clearly too difficult." Is that meant to be a reason for staying? Did anyone say that before the referendum? No, because it would have put 10% on the Leave vote. > > I think the statement should be "We can't leave because we brought in the MPs to decide on the form of Brexit and they didn't want to leave." > > Who brought them in? I think you'll find that was the die-hard Remainers.
Rubbish, May pivoted to Leave and really wanted to do so but was stopped by the ERG. She would have stayed as PM if she had achieved it, so saying she's really a Remainer is deluded.
Mr. Above, a valiant effort, but I'm not voting Green. Lucas is a smug leftwing equivalent of Farage, off on her own planet, and high on her own supply.
> The UN General Assembly votes by 116 votes to 6 that the UK should hand back the Chagoa Islands to Mauritius despite the UK's insistence they will only be handed back once they have ceased use as a defence base.
>
> Only the USA, Israel, Australia, the Maldives and Hungary voted with the UK with France and Germany abstaining
> > Weather looks good today here, sunny and warm, perhaps suggesting turnout might be at the higher end of some predictions.
>
> >
>
> > I'd been planning to give ChUK a sympathy vote, but now the day is here I'm just not sure I can go through with it. I'll be voting Lib Dem today for the third time today to try and reduce the size of Farage's grin on Sunday night
>
>
>
>
>
> Yep. It’s already the case that a Tory vote or a Labour vote is a Wasted Vote. Now it looks like a CUK vote would be wasted also. Respect to anyone who votes Green, but for expressing a clear Remain position today it has to be the LibDems.
>
>
>
> Their payoff for being so steadfast and clear has been a long time coming.
>
> Anything but a Lib Dem vote is a wasted vote?
No. If you really want a hard Brexit then clearly voting BXP isn’t wasted. In Scotland voting SNP makes the most sense. The extent to which Green votes are underrepresented will depend on their performance - in the larger London and SE regions it’s a vote very likely to count, but in the smaller regions it would be better for remainers to coalesce behind the LibDems.
Discussion this morning with Mrs P. re LD versus Green: I think the LDs are the best bet for supporting Remain; she counters that the SW has a Green MEP and she'd like to keep it that way. Suspect that we will be supporting Remain with a split vote.
> @isam said: > Given that we have not left and that the current situation stems from people trying to prevent our leaving your point is wildly wrong. > > It shows how hardcore Remainers never put themselves into the shoes of their ‘opponents’ that they don’t see that having a Remain PM and Parliament contrive to keep us in the EU, three years after we voted to Leave, might not feel like our side being given a go and failing.
David Davis was the Brexit Secretary, and did the first six months of the negotiations before May stepped in as he seemed happy doing a couple of days a week and scheduling meetings with the EU once a month.
Raab took over, admittedly with less power than Davis had initially, and did not know how important Calais-Dover was to trade.
Boris Johnson was Foreign Secretary, if he wanted to he could have played a much bigger role in Brexit, but did not.
Liam Fox is Trade Secretary, he has failed to do the things he promised.
The leavers in cabinet have generally been found to be lazy and/or incompetent. In my opinion the only leavers who have served well this time around are Gove and Leadsom.
> @Dura_Ace said: > What happened to the country that put on the Olympics in 2012. > > > > The country's moral, cultural and political decline since then has been precipitous. We only need economic decline to get the full nap hand.
Doubt you will have long to wait. I wonder how many people like me have just quietly given up on the country over the last 3 years. I detect no optimism about the future in just about anyone I talk to.
> Given that we have not left and that the current situation stems from people trying to prevent our leaving your point is wildly wrong.
>
> It shows how hardcore Remainers never put themselves into the shoes of their ‘opponents’ that they don’t see that having a Remain PM and Parliament contrive to keep us in the EU, three years after we voted to Leave, might not feel like our side being given a go and failing.
David Davis was the Brexit Secretary, and did the first six months of the negotiations before May stepped in as he seemed happy doing a couple of days a week and scheduling meetings with the EU once a month.
Raab took over, admittedly with less power than Davis had initially, and did not know how important Calais-Dover was to trade.
Boris Johnson was Foreign Secretary, if he wanted to he could have played a much bigger role in Brexit, but did not.
Liam Fox is Trade Secretary, he has failed to do the things he promised.
The leavers in cabinet have generally been found to be lazy and/or incompetent. In my opinion the only leavers who have served well this time around are Gove and Leadsom.
> @not_on_fire said: > What happened to the country that put on the Olympics in 2012. > > > > The country's moral, cultural and political decline since then has been precipitous. We only need economic decline to get the full nap hand. > > Cultural decline? > > > What happened to the country that put on the Olympics in 2012. > > > > The country's moral, cultural and political decline since then has been precipitous. We only need economic decline to get the full nap hand. > > Cultural decline? > > Love Island.
I reckon that appeals to remainers more than leavers.
> @Charles said: > > @HYUFD said: > > > The UN General Assembly votes by 116 votes to 6 that the UK should hand back the Chagoa Islands to Mauritius despite the UK's insistence they will only be handed back once they have ceased use as a defence base. > > > > > > Only the USA, Israel, Australia, the Maldives and Hungary voted with the UK with France and Germany abstaining > > > > > > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48371388 > > > > Look a squirrel! > > Guess we know who our closest allies are. Do the Maldives just dislike Mauritius? > > I was curious about that - presumably they might like the islands themselves?
They are closer to the Maldives, but I have no idea of the geopolitics of it
I wouldn't regard political mistakes as crimes. Perhaps that description is best reserved for deporting British citizens of the Windrush generation. A crime that she threw her oldest political ally under the wheels of a bus for.
I have no sympathy for May and her forthcoming humiliation. She brought it on herself, hubris followed by nemesis.
________________
Thank you. This is so true. Theresa May should have Windrush, not Brexit, carved on her heart. Brexit wasn't a mess of her own making. What she did with deporting UK citizens decades after they first came here was simply wrong. I wish her to reflect she could have done the right thing, but chose to do the wrong thing.
Given that we have not left and that the current situation stems from people trying to prevent our leaving your point is wildly wrong.
It shows how hardcore Remainers never put themselves into the shoes of their ‘opponents’ that they don’t see that having a Remain PM and Parliament contrive to keep us in the EU, three years after we voted to Leave, might not feel like our side being given a go and failing.
Interesting. I saw dozens of MPs who said they were in favour of Leaving vote against a deal that meant we would have left.
> @tlg86 said: > > @not_on_fire said: > > What happened to the country that put on the Olympics in 2012. > > > > > > > > The country's moral, cultural and political decline since then has been precipitous. We only need economic decline to get the full nap hand. > > > > Cultural decline? > > > > > > What happened to the country that put on the Olympics in 2012. > > > > > > > > The country's moral, cultural and political decline since then has been precipitous. We only need economic decline to get the full nap hand. > > > > Cultural decline? > > > > Love Island. > > I reckon that appeals to remainers more than leavers.
Almost certainly given the opposite age demographics.
> @isam said: > Given that we have not left and that the current situation stems from people trying to prevent our leaving your point is wildly wrong. > > It shows how hardcore Remainers never put themselves into the shoes of their ‘opponents’ that they don’t see that having a Remain PM and Parliament contrive to keep us in the EU, three years after we voted to Leave, might not feel like our side being given a go and failing.
Maybe if you took some responsibility for your own actions and stop blaming others you might achieve more. You had the leaders of the Leave campaign in the cabinet and Leavers run the negotiations and enough Leave votes in Parliament.
Mr. Above, a valiant effort, but I'm not voting Green. Lucas is a smug leftwing equivalent of Farage, off on her own planet, and high on her own supply.
> @isam said: > > @isam said: > > > Given that we have not left and that the current situation stems from people trying to prevent our leaving your point is wildly wrong. > > > > > > It shows how hardcore Remainers never put themselves into the shoes of their ‘opponents’ that they don’t see that having a Remain PM and Parliament contrive to keep us in the EU, three years after we voted to Leave, might not feel like our side being given a go and failing. > > > > David Davis was the Brexit Secretary, and did the first six months of the negotiations before May stepped in as he seemed happy doing a couple of days a week and scheduling meetings with the EU once a month. > > > > Raab took over, admittedly with less power than Davis had initially, and did not know how important Calais-Dover was to trade. > > > > Boris Johnson was Foreign Secretary, if he wanted to he could have played a much bigger role in Brexit, but did not. > > > > Liam Fox is Trade Secretary, he has failed to do the things he promised. > > > > The leavers in cabinet have generally been found to be lazy and/or incompetent. In my opinion the only leavers who have served well this time around are Gove and Leadsom. > > The bosses are the PM & CotE
That was confirmed in the recent documentary that showed the EU playing lip service only to Raab while he was being undermined by May.
> @isam said: > Given that we have not left and that the current situation stems from people trying to prevent our leaving your point is wildly wrong. > > It shows how hardcore Remainers never put themselves into the shoes of their ‘opponents’ that they don’t see that having a Remain PM and Parliament contrive to keep us in the EU, three years after we voted to Leave, might not feel like our side being given a go and failing.
We will shortly be seeing a hardline Brexiteer as PM actually having to do something. Not Farage of course who is careful to ensure he is never in a position to actually deliver anything. It is going to be fascinating to see what the new PM actually does - my guess is he or she will go full on no deal with their fingers crossed behind their backs praying the parliament blocks it and lets them off the hook
> @isam said: > > @isam said: > > > Given that we have not left and that the current situation stems from people trying to prevent our leaving your point is wildly wrong. > > > > > > It shows how hardcore Remainers never put themselves into the shoes of their ‘opponents’ that they don’t see that having a Remain PM and Parliament contrive to keep us in the EU, three years after we voted to Leave, might not feel like our side being given a go and failing. > > > > David Davis was the Brexit Secretary, and did the first six months of the negotiations before May stepped in as he seemed happy doing a couple of days a week and scheduling meetings with the EU once a month. > > > > Raab took over, admittedly with less power than Davis had initially, and did not know how important Calais-Dover was to trade. > > > > Boris Johnson was Foreign Secretary, if he wanted to he could have played a much bigger role in Brexit, but did not. > > > > Liam Fox is Trade Secretary, he has failed to do the things he promised. > > > > The leavers in cabinet have generally been found to be lazy and/or incompetent. In my opinion the only leavers who have served well this time around are Gove and Leadsom. > > The bosses are the PM & CotE
The PM yes, but no way that Hammond has had more opportunity to shape Brexit than Davis. Davis was in charge initially, and if he had started well, would still be in charge now.
> @OllyT said: > > @isam said: > > Given that we have not left and that the current situation stems from people trying to prevent our leaving your point is wildly wrong. > > > > It shows how hardcore Remainers never put themselves into the shoes of their ‘opponents’ that they don’t see that having a Remain PM and Parliament contrive to keep us in the EU, three years after we voted to Leave, might not feel like our side being given a go and failing. > > > We will shortly be seeing a hardline Brexiteer as PM actually having to do something. Not Farage of course who is careful to ensure he is never in a position to actually deliver anything. It is going to be fascinating to see what the new PM actually does - my guess is he or she will go full on no deal with their fingers crossed behind their backs praying the parliament blocks it and lets them off the hook
How does a full on no dealer actually become PM? Now they are floating proroguing parliament, why wouldnt their be a VONC on their first day if they were somehow offered it?
Too many people assuming leader of the Tories = PM still.
> > > I really don’t think that the absence of a consensus is down to saboteurs (the MPs,incidentally, were elected after the referendum result). It’s down to a vile referendum campaign, followed by Leavers competing to set purity tests and whip up paranoia about traitors and quislings. But most of all it is down to Leavers being utterly clueless about what they do want as opposed to what they don’t want.
> >
> >
> >
> > ___________________
> >
> >
> >
> > Slightly unfair to Leavers, I think. They want the UK to be masters of its own ship and the EU, which they never much liked, to go away out of their lives.
> >
> >
> >
> > Problem is, Brexit gives the exact opposite. We will never be more beholden to the EU, which will dominate our lives much more comprehensively than ever before.
> >
> > The EU is not going away out of their lives whatever happens. It's the supranational body equivalent of Piers Morgan.
>
> You voted to remain in the supranational body equivalent of Piers Morgan? For heaven's sake, why?
Sometimes the choice is between bad and worse. Clueless xenophobia torching Britain’s civic institutions is worse than staying in an irritating, lumbering but essential benign organisation.
No Leaver could honestly say that the country is in a better place than it was three years ago.
All pretty true. There is an odd feature of the whole discussion. Remainers voted remain with an implied term that it would be administered competently. Leavers did the same. Where we have got to now is that a plurality of folks would probably vote for any party which could guarantee that it did whatever it did with competence, even if we didn't agree with it. But I don't think there is one. There is a sort of sub debate going on, or rather not quite going on, which is: How would anyone competently lead us from here? In a sense this is more significant than whether we remain or leave. Both remaining and leaving is like repairing a small boat in a storm in the middle of the ocean a long way from land. To my mind this is a long term consequence of not getting genuine public backing for the EU project as it developed.
> Given that we have not left and that the current situation stems from people trying to prevent our leaving your point is wildly wrong.
>
> It shows how hardcore Remainers never put themselves into the shoes of their ‘opponents’ that they don’t see that having a Remain PM and Parliament contrive to keep us in the EU, three years after we voted to Leave, might not feel like our side being given a go and failing.
Maybe if you took some responsibility for your own actions and stop blaming others you might achieve more. You had the leaders of the Leave campaign in the cabinet and Leavers run the negotiations and enough Leave votes in Parliament.
Maybe just maybe your lot made some errors.
Only one person from a party I voted for has been in the commons since the referendum, and none since 2017.
I always take responsibility for my own actions, the excuse industry of modern life is one of the major reasons for the state we are in.
> @Dura_Ace said: > What happened to the country that put on the Olympics in 2012. > > > > The country's moral, cultural and political decline since then has been precipitous. We only need economic decline to get the full nap hand.
The devil is in the detail. There must be a prime minister, and that will be Theresa May even if she announces her resignation after meeting Brady tomorrow, until a successor is appointed. In other words, we might be betting on the length of a Conservative Party election process.
In the past, these party elections have been circumvented entirely when only one candidate was nominated, as when Michael Howard took over from IDS, or cut short, when the second-placed candidate withdraws before the wider membership can vote, as happened last time when Theresa May succeeded David Cameron rather sooner than he had anticipated.
So really any time between March and October is possible, even if Theresa May sets the contest in motion tomorrow. If she hangs on, perhaps even later.
The devil is in the detail. There must be a prime minister, and that will be Theresa May even if she announces her resignation after meeting Brady tomorrow, until a successor is appointed. In other words, we might be betting on the length of a Conservative Party election process.
In the past, these party elections have been circumvented entirely when only one candidate was nominated, as when Michael Howard took over from IDS, or cut short, when the second-placed candidate withdraws before the wider membership can vote, as happened last time when Theresa May succeeded David Cameron rather sooner than he had anticipated.
So really any time between March and October is possible, even if Theresa May sets the contest in motion tomorrow. If she hangs on, perhaps even later.
I’ve put my money where my mouth is.
In less than an hour this morning, May gone by July has gone 1.74 from 1.5 😳
> @HYUFD said: > > @ah009 said: > > > @Jonathan said: > > > > @Roger said: > > > > The biggesst 'crime' Mrs May has committed is leaving us with a choice of Johnson Gove and Leadsom as her successor. > > > > > > May has achieved the impossible, leaving the country in a worse state than she inherited from Cameron. What’s scary is the next PM will probably do the same. > > > > This. > > May has done very much wrong. In June 2016, defeated Remainers like me were acquiescent. The calls to stop Brexit consisted of AC Grayling and a few other fringe commentators. The Lib Dems were still floating on their side in their bowl. > > Then came May's government and the hostile environment for moderates began. Calls for moderation were dismissed as Remoaning. Foreigners were scapegoated. Even the judiciary was attacked for applying the law of the land. Theresa May allowed this to happen, and in some cases participated. > > > > She is a classic Tory, divide and rule. She is also a classic tragic figure. Her flaw has become her downfall: she is now the victim of that division, with voters going Lib Dem and Brexit Party. She prodded wounds that should have been dressed. She punched down instead of gathering the country together. She kept people at her side who were obviously incapable of doing their job because she didn't have the stomach to confront those with their own power base. In doing that she undermined her own authority and looked weak and temporary. She has deferred difficult tasks to her successor, and clung on needlessly so delaying them. > > > > There has not been such a craven, self-defeating and pathetic prime minister in my lifetime. > > May negotiated the Withdrawal Agreement which respected the reasons for the Leave victory as far as could possibly be done while still getting a Deal with the EU
You're not wrong, but it's a little distance off what I was talking about. In June 2016 I could have been fine with the WA. But May's leadership has driven me very, very far away from accepting it.
> @Jonathan said: > > @isam said: > > Given that we have not left and that the current situation stems from people trying to prevent our leaving your point is wildly wrong. > > > > It shows how hardcore Remainers never put themselves into the shoes of their ‘opponents’ that they don’t see that having a Remain PM and Parliament contrive to keep us in the EU, three years after we voted to Leave, might not feel like our side being given a go and failing. > > Maybe if you took some responsibility for your own actions and stop blaming others you might achieve more. You had the leaders of the Leave campaign in the cabinet and Leavers run the negotiations and enough Leave votes in Parliament. > > Maybe just maybe your lot made some errors.
When the one person in charge is a self obsessed authoritarian who listens to no one and has no understanding of the reasons people voted Leave in the first place, being in the cabinet is about as much use as sitting in Parliament Square with a megaphone.
> @isam said: > .> @isam said: > > > 4/6 now May goes before July 🤔 > > > > The devil is in the detail. There must be a prime minister, and that will be Theresa May even if she announces her resignation after meeting Brady tomorrow, until a successor is appointed. In other words, we might be betting on the length of a Conservative Party election process. > > > > In the past, these party elections have been circumvented entirely when only one candidate was nominated, as when Michael Howard took over from IDS, or cut short, when the second-placed candidate withdraws before the wider membership can vote, as happened last time when Theresa May succeeded David Cameron rather sooner than he had anticipated. > > > > So really any time between March and October is possible, even if Theresa May sets the contest in motion tomorrow. If she hangs on, perhaps even later. > > I’ve put my money where my mouth is. > > In less than an hour this morning, May gone by July has gone 1.74 from 1.5 😳
Does she resign as leader of the Tories on the day she announces it but stay on as PM until there is a successor? The bet is on the Tory leadership rather than being PM.
The Tory party has never been the party of the little guy's actual material interests. Like the republican party in the U.S.A, and to a certain extent like an increasing number of right-centre parties in mainland europe, it is increasingly becoming the party of the little guy's anger, though.
> In less than an hour this morning, May gone by July has gone 1.74 from 1.5 😳
Does she resign as leader of the Tories on the day she announces it but stay on as PM until there is a successor? The bet is on the Tory leadership rather than being PM.
OGH is right. It is irresponsible, and it is a pound to a penny someone chucks one over the hander-outer if she is not careful, as well as over any passing former metals traders. But more likely she was there for 10 minutes for press photos and then went back to her day job as a high court judge or some such.
> > If he doesn’t get a snap of himself buying one, that’s a fail
>
> Did you not read the sign? They're free!
>
> But yes, he should get one.
OGH is right. It is irresponsible, and it is a pound to a penny someone chucks one over the hander-outer if she is not careful, as well as over any passing former metals traders. But more likely she was there for 10 minutes for press photos and then went back to her day job as a high court judge or some such.
> @Dura_Ace said: > What happened to the country that put on the Olympics in 2012. > > > > The country's moral, cultural and political decline since then has been precipitous. We only need economic decline to get the full nap hand.
> @DecrepitJohnL said: > > @TheWhiteRabbit said: > > > @isam said: > > > https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1131467640353038337 > > > > > > > > > > > > If he doesn’t get a snap of himself buying one, that’s a fail > > > > Did you not read the sign? They're free! > > > > But yes, he should get one. > > OGH is right. It is irresponsible, and it is a pound to a penny someone chucks one over the hander-outer if she is not careful, as well as over any passing former metals traders. But more likely she was there for 10 minutes for press photos and then went back to her day job as a high court judge or some such.
Hard to say, she could be some kind of events girl paid £10 an hour to do some guerilla advertising for some rank health drink that is struggling to get any attention in an over saturated market.
Mr. Pointer, at least one ancient Greek temple had a hydraulic door. When people stood in front of it their weight pushed down pressure plates, which then opened the door.
Ended up voting Green. A Remainer at heart, I would be content with any deal keeping us in the economic orbit of the EU (not selling us off to the USA) but the only parties advocating that are either under investigation for antisemitism or Tories. Voted Green to help them keep their deposit in the North East and hopefully finish ahead of the Tories nationally.
> > > If he doesn’t get a snap of himself buying one, that’s a fail
> >
> > Did you not read the sign? They're free!
> >
> > But yes, he should get one.
>
> OGH is right. It is irresponsible, and it is a pound to a penny someone chucks one over the hander-outer if she is not careful, as well as over any passing former metals traders. But more likely she was there for 10 minutes for press photos and then went back to her day job as a high court judge or some such.
Hard to say, she could be some kind of events girl paid £10 an hour to do some guerilla advertising for some rank health drink that is struggling to get any attention in an over saturated market.
I'd stick my neck out and say she is not a high court judge.
> @rottenborough said: > FL by the way, was the key state in biden's route to the nomination in a piece i posted a week or two ago, from iirc the new york times.
His lead is bigger than Farage has in the euros !*
* Obviously he shouldn't be as short a price as the Euros are today.
> @Pulpstar said: > > @Cyclefree said: > > The 4th Tory leader destroyed by the European question. > > > > Who will the 5th one be? > > Boris is the hot favorite right now for that, and destroyed he will be if he gets the crown.
Maybe, maybe not but only after destroying Corbyn first
> @Dura_Ace said: > What happened to the country that put on the Olympics in 2012. > > > > The country's moral, cultural and political decline since then has been precipitous. We only need economic decline to get the full nap hand.
And the Queen's body double who parachuted in to the stadium is sadly no longer with us.
As Ron Davies once said- Good morning. And it is a very good morning in Wales. Today for the first time in a hundred years the Labour party will be defeated soundly in an election. No flowers please.
2. There is a massive amount of space to write in a screed if you so choose BUT if planning to do so, take a pencil sharpener - I discovered the little stubbies in the polling booth blunt quite quickly.
3. "Voted" at the same time as in the locals. Polling at the same point in the locals was about 3 times heavier in the same polling station.
> @AlastairMeeks said: > > @Endillion said: > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I really don’t think that the absence of a consensus is down to saboteurs (the MPs,incidentally, were elected after the referendum result). It’s down to a vile referendum campaign, followed by Leavers competing to set purity tests and whip up paranoia about traitors and quislings. But most of all it is down to Leavers being utterly clueless about what they do want as opposed to what they don’t want. > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > Slightly unfair to Leavers, I think. They want the UK to be masters of its own ship and the EU, which they never much liked, to go away out of their lives. > > > > > > > > > > > > Problem is, Brexit gives the exact opposite. We will never be more beholden to the EU, which will dominate our lives much more comprehensively than ever before. > > > > > > The EU is not going away out of their lives whatever happens. It's the supranational body equivalent of Piers Morgan. > > > > You voted to remain in the supranational body equivalent of Piers Morgan? For heaven's sake, why? > > Sometimes the choice is between bad and worse. Clueless xenophobia torching Britain’s civic institutions is worse than staying in an irritating, lumbering but essential benign organisation. > > No Leaver could honestly say that the country is in a better place than it was three years ago.
I'll say it is.
Wages are up. Unemployment is down. Business is in a massive boom (and I work for a supplier to British Steel, and can still say that!). The political scene is a mess, but other than that, things are going really really well - probably because the politicians have been so distracted by Brexit they've temporarily stopped meddling with other things they don't understand like the economy.
Comments
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/9365175/David-Cameron-rules-out-EU-referendum.html
Soon afterwards, he promised one.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21148282
> Mr. Pulpstar, I've ruled out pretty much everyone
>
> The parties I've got to choose from are:
> Green - far left
> Labour - no EU position and far left nutcases
> Lib Dems - want a second referendum [to be honest, more honest and less rubbish than some positions]
> Conservative - May's deal is rubbish (maybe least bad option?) but supporting them might prolong her political tenure, and she's a very poor PM
> English Democrats - whilst I like the English Parliament policy I had heard here they were infiltrated by the remnants of the BNP, so no
> UKIP - I think not
> Yorkshire Party - carving England into shitty regional assemblies is not something I will support
> Brexit Party - I'm sympathetic to a kick up the arse to those trying to frustrate the referendum result, but the rallies and 'lock her up' nonsense are unsettling and unwelcome (not to mention infantile and having all the nuance of Procopius' Secret History)
> Oh, Change UK (forgot until just now) - like the Lib Dems, with less competence (and straight revocation would be... courageous)
>
> I think that's everyone.
Vote green, yes they are too far left but this election is not for significant power, and they will never have significant Westminster power under FPTP. The benefits of voting green are that the higher their vote, the more that other parties will have to come up with more workable green solutions for the future. Being green is something the UK can be great at, and be one of the countries to help lead the change across the planet.
It may not be the best ever reason to vote for a party, or even in the top half of reasons for voting for a party, but it is the best available this time around.
>
> I agree Farage has always ensured that he never puts himself anywhere near a position where he might have to deliver something.
>
> Having never missed a vote in 50 years I have not voted at any level since the referendum and that goes for today as well. I accept that Brexity, Faragey Britain is what my fellow citizens want but as I don't see any good outcome from here I am indifferent to who runs Brexit Britain. I have given up on the country as the decision taken in 2016 is very unlikely to change during my lifetime.
>
> The only thing that interests me now is seeing how the new hardline Brexit leader gets on when they actually have to do something.
So you're actually voting Brexit? Leaving aside the issue itself, it does seem to me that the party - or rather the limited company - doesn't deserve your support. It has no programme whatsoever, an autocratic and eccentric leader with no internal checks on him, and its main appeal is rallies blaming everyone else. If you like Brexit but don't want a dangerous topping, I'd think that the Tories remain the default choice - they are clearly keen on doing it, mostly without being dangerously mad.
In a curious way, I think the two big losers expected today are actually the only parties who have tried to address the Brexit problem reasonably seriously. The Tories either want a semi-detached relationship (May's deal) or a hard Brexit with negotiations to cover the basics like aviation (Raab). Labour wants either a Brexit so close to membership that it's hard to tell the difference, or if that's not possible then Remain. All four of these options will enable Britain to escape the dilemma in more or less reasonable shape.
Despite everything, they're the adults in the room. The LibDems and Greens ("Bollocks!" "Referendum now!"), Brexit Party ("Farage!"), ChUK ("Revoke!"), UKIP ("Throw out the Muslims!") are all trying to maximise their sector of the half of Britain they agree with. It's a perfectly rational strategy for parties that don't aspire to government, but all of them will make a viable solution that doesn't sow permanent division harder.
May acted as though she still had that mandate, despite lacking either the democratic rationale or the parliamentary power to do so. Which is why we are where we are.
> There seems to be a lot of "We can't leave because it's clearly too difficult." Is that meant to be a reason for staying? Did anyone say that before the referendum? No, because it would have put 10% on the Leave vote.
>
> I think the statement should be "We can't leave because we brought in the MPs to decide on the form of Brexit and they didn't want to leave."
>
> Who brought them in? I think you'll find that was the die-hard Remainers.
Rubbish, May pivoted to Leave and really wanted to do so but was stopped by the ERG. She would have stayed as PM if she had achieved it, so saying she's really a Remainer is deluded.
> Given that we have not left and that the current situation stems from people trying to prevent our leaving your point is wildly wrong.
>
> It shows how hardcore Remainers never put themselves into the shoes of their ‘opponents’ that they don’t see that having a Remain PM and Parliament contrive to keep us in the EU, three years after we voted to Leave, might not feel like our side being given a go and failing.
David Davis was the Brexit Secretary, and did the first six months of the negotiations before May stepped in as he seemed happy doing a couple of days a week and scheduling meetings with the EU once a month.
Raab took over, admittedly with less power than Davis had initially, and did not know how important Calais-Dover was to trade.
Boris Johnson was Foreign Secretary, if he wanted to he could have played a much bigger role in Brexit, but did not.
Liam Fox is Trade Secretary, he has failed to do the things he promised.
The leavers in cabinet have generally been found to be lazy and/or incompetent. In my opinion the only leavers who have served well this time around are Gove and Leadsom.
> What happened to the country that put on the Olympics in 2012.
>
>
>
> The country's moral, cultural and political decline since then has been precipitous. We only need economic decline to get the full nap hand.
Doubt you will have long to wait. I wonder how many people like me have just quietly given up on the country over the last 3 years. I detect no optimism about the future in just about anyone I talk to.
I would go further... In the past 4 years of Tory rule we end up here. 'The natural party of government'? Do me a favour!
"Just voted Lib Dem 🔶 in Newcastle.
..............................................................
Wot .. no bar chart !! ..
> What happened to the country that put on the Olympics in 2012.
>
>
>
> The country's moral, cultural and political decline since then has been precipitous. We only need economic decline to get the full nap hand.
>
> Cultural decline?
>
>
> What happened to the country that put on the Olympics in 2012.
>
>
>
> The country's moral, cultural and political decline since then has been precipitous. We only need economic decline to get the full nap hand.
>
> Cultural decline?
>
> Love Island.
I reckon that appeals to remainers more than leavers.
> > @HYUFD said:
>
> > The UN General Assembly votes by 116 votes to 6 that the UK should hand back the Chagoa Islands to Mauritius despite the UK's insistence they will only be handed back once they have ceased use as a defence base.
>
> >
>
> > Only the USA, Israel, Australia, the Maldives and Hungary voted with the UK with France and Germany abstaining
>
> >
>
> > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48371388
>
>
>
> Look a squirrel!
>
> Guess we know who our closest allies are. Do the Maldives just dislike Mauritius?
>
> I was curious about that - presumably they might like the islands themselves?
They are closer to the Maldives, but I have no idea of the geopolitics of it
I wouldn't regard political mistakes as crimes. Perhaps that description is best reserved for deporting British citizens of the Windrush generation. A crime that she threw her oldest political ally under the wheels of a bus for.
I have no sympathy for May and her forthcoming humiliation. She brought it on herself, hubris followed by nemesis.
________________
Thank you. This is so true. Theresa May should have Windrush, not Brexit, carved on her heart. Brexit wasn't a mess of her own making. What she did with deporting UK citizens decades after they first came here was simply wrong. I wish her to reflect she could have done the right thing, but chose to do the wrong thing.
> > @not_on_fire said:
> > What happened to the country that put on the Olympics in 2012.
> >
> >
> >
> > The country's moral, cultural and political decline since then has been precipitous. We only need economic decline to get the full nap hand.
> >
> > Cultural decline?
> >
> >
> > What happened to the country that put on the Olympics in 2012.
> >
> >
> >
> > The country's moral, cultural and political decline since then has been precipitous. We only need economic decline to get the full nap hand.
> >
> > Cultural decline?
> >
> > Love Island.
>
> I reckon that appeals to remainers more than leavers.
Almost certainly given the opposite age demographics.
> https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1131467640353038337
>
>
>
> If he doesn’t get a snap of himself buying one, that’s a fail
Why would you buy a free milk shake ?
> Given that we have not left and that the current situation stems from people trying to prevent our leaving your point is wildly wrong.
>
> It shows how hardcore Remainers never put themselves into the shoes of their ‘opponents’ that they don’t see that having a Remain PM and Parliament contrive to keep us in the EU, three years after we voted to Leave, might not feel like our side being given a go and failing.
Maybe if you took some responsibility for your own actions and stop blaming others you might achieve more. You had the leaders of the Leave campaign in the cabinet and Leavers run the negotiations and enough Leave votes in Parliament.
Maybe just maybe your lot made some errors.
> https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1131467640353038337
>
>
>
> If he doesn’t get a snap of himself buying one, that’s a fail
Did you not read the sign? They're free!
But yes, he should get one.
> > @isam said:
>
> > Given that we have not left and that the current situation stems from people trying to prevent our leaving your point is wildly wrong.
>
> >
>
> > It shows how hardcore Remainers never put themselves into the shoes of their ‘opponents’ that they don’t see that having a Remain PM and Parliament contrive to keep us in the EU, three years after we voted to Leave, might not feel like our side being given a go and failing.
>
>
>
> David Davis was the Brexit Secretary, and did the first six months of the negotiations before May stepped in as he seemed happy doing a couple of days a week and scheduling meetings with the EU once a month.
>
>
>
> Raab took over, admittedly with less power than Davis had initially, and did not know how important Calais-Dover was to trade.
>
>
>
> Boris Johnson was Foreign Secretary, if he wanted to he could have played a much bigger role in Brexit, but did not.
>
>
>
> Liam Fox is Trade Secretary, he has failed to do the things he promised.
>
>
>
> The leavers in cabinet have generally been found to be lazy and/or incompetent. In my opinion the only leavers who have served well this time around are Gove and Leadsom.
>
> The bosses are the PM & CotE
That was confirmed in the recent documentary that showed the EU playing lip service only to Raab while he was being undermined by May.
> 4/6 now May goes before July 🤔
As PM I assume?
If it's leader it would be value.
> Given that we have not left and that the current situation stems from people trying to prevent our leaving your point is wildly wrong.
>
> It shows how hardcore Remainers never put themselves into the shoes of their ‘opponents’ that they don’t see that having a Remain PM and Parliament contrive to keep us in the EU, three years after we voted to Leave, might not feel like our side being given a go and failing.
We will shortly be seeing a hardline Brexiteer as PM actually having to do something. Not Farage of course who is careful to ensure he is never in a position to actually deliver anything. It is going to be fascinating to see what the new PM actually does - my guess is he or she will go full on no deal with their fingers crossed behind their backs praying the parliament blocks it and lets them off the hook
> > @isam said:
>
> > Given that we have not left and that the current situation stems from people trying to prevent our leaving your point is wildly wrong.
>
> >
>
> > It shows how hardcore Remainers never put themselves into the shoes of their ‘opponents’ that they don’t see that having a Remain PM and Parliament contrive to keep us in the EU, three years after we voted to Leave, might not feel like our side being given a go and failing.
>
>
>
> David Davis was the Brexit Secretary, and did the first six months of the negotiations before May stepped in as he seemed happy doing a couple of days a week and scheduling meetings with the EU once a month.
>
>
>
> Raab took over, admittedly with less power than Davis had initially, and did not know how important Calais-Dover was to trade.
>
>
>
> Boris Johnson was Foreign Secretary, if he wanted to he could have played a much bigger role in Brexit, but did not.
>
>
>
> Liam Fox is Trade Secretary, he has failed to do the things he promised.
>
>
>
> The leavers in cabinet have generally been found to be lazy and/or incompetent. In my opinion the only leavers who have served well this time around are Gove and Leadsom.
>
> The bosses are the PM & CotE
The PM yes, but no way that Hammond has had more opportunity to shape Brexit than Davis. Davis was in charge initially, and if he had started well, would still be in charge now.
I think we might get to find out if Mike is right about Biden being too old for the job.
> https://twitter.com/montie/status/1131468046126714880
LibDem, then ?
> > @isam said:
> > Given that we have not left and that the current situation stems from people trying to prevent our leaving your point is wildly wrong.
> >
> > It shows how hardcore Remainers never put themselves into the shoes of their ‘opponents’ that they don’t see that having a Remain PM and Parliament contrive to keep us in the EU, three years after we voted to Leave, might not feel like our side being given a go and failing.
>
>
> We will shortly be seeing a hardline Brexiteer as PM actually having to do something. Not Farage of course who is careful to ensure he is never in a position to actually deliver anything. It is going to be fascinating to see what the new PM actually does - my guess is he or she will go full on no deal with their fingers crossed behind their backs praying the parliament blocks it and lets them off the hook
How does a full on no dealer actually become PM? Now they are floating proroguing parliament, why wouldnt their be a VONC on their first day if they were somehow offered it?
Too many people assuming leader of the Tories = PM still.
All pretty true. There is an odd feature of the whole discussion. Remainers voted remain with an implied term that it would be administered competently. Leavers did the same. Where we have got to now is that a plurality of folks would probably vote for any party which could guarantee that it did whatever it did with competence, even if we didn't agree with it. But I don't think there is one. There is a sort of sub debate going on, or rather not quite going on, which is: How would anyone competently lead us from here? In a sense this is more significant than whether we remain or leave. Both remaining and leaving is like repairing a small boat in a storm in the middle of the ocean a long way from land. To my mind this is a long term consequence of not getting genuine public backing for the EU project as it developed.
I always take responsibility for my own actions, the excuse industry of modern life is one of the major reasons for the state we are in.
Enough Leave votes in Parliament? Please explain
> What happened to the country that put on the Olympics in 2012.
>
>
>
> The country's moral, cultural and political decline since then has been precipitous. We only need economic decline to get the full nap hand.
Hahahaha. What bollocks.
> 4/6 now May goes before July 🤔
The devil is in the detail. There must be a prime minister, and that will be Theresa May even if she announces her resignation after meeting Brady tomorrow, until a successor is appointed. In other words, we might be betting on the length of a Conservative Party election process.
In the past, these party elections have been circumvented entirely when only one candidate was nominated, as when Michael Howard took over from IDS, or cut short, when the second-placed candidate withdraws before the wider membership can vote, as happened last time when Theresa May succeeded David Cameron rather sooner than he had anticipated.
So really any time between March and October is possible, even if Theresa May sets the contest in motion tomorrow. If she hangs on, perhaps even later.
> https://twitter.com/montie/status/1131468046126714880
>
>
>
> ... says rich and powerful Tim Montgomerie.
and switching to the party of the oligarchs!
Time for https://www.hugedomains.com/domain_profile.cfm?d=brexithome&e=com ???
In less than an hour this morning, May gone by July has gone 1.74 from 1.5 😳
> > @ah009 said:
> > > @Jonathan said:
> > > > @Roger said:
> > > > The biggesst 'crime' Mrs May has committed is leaving us with a choice of Johnson Gove and Leadsom as her successor.
> > >
> > > May has achieved the impossible, leaving the country in a worse state than she inherited from Cameron. What’s scary is the next PM will probably do the same.
> >
> > This.
> > May has done very much wrong. In June 2016, defeated Remainers like me were acquiescent. The calls to stop Brexit consisted of AC Grayling and a few other fringe commentators. The Lib Dems were still floating on their side in their bowl.
> > Then came May's government and the hostile environment for moderates began. Calls for moderation were dismissed as Remoaning. Foreigners were scapegoated. Even the judiciary was attacked for applying the law of the land. Theresa May allowed this to happen, and in some cases participated.
> >
> > She is a classic Tory, divide and rule. She is also a classic tragic figure. Her flaw has become her downfall: she is now the victim of that division, with voters going Lib Dem and Brexit Party. She prodded wounds that should have been dressed. She punched down instead of gathering the country together. She kept people at her side who were obviously incapable of doing their job because she didn't have the stomach to confront those with their own power base. In doing that she undermined her own authority and looked weak and temporary. She has deferred difficult tasks to her successor, and clung on needlessly so delaying them.
> >
> > There has not been such a craven, self-defeating and pathetic prime minister in my lifetime.
>
> May negotiated the Withdrawal Agreement which respected the reasons for the Leave victory as far as could possibly be done while still getting a Deal with the EU
You're not wrong, but it's a little distance off what I was talking about. In June 2016 I could have been fine with the WA. But May's leadership has driven me very, very far away from accepting it.
> https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1131428944782266369?s=20
wow - talk about leaving yourself open at the back with no keeper....
> > @isam said:
> > Given that we have not left and that the current situation stems from people trying to prevent our leaving your point is wildly wrong.
> >
> > It shows how hardcore Remainers never put themselves into the shoes of their ‘opponents’ that they don’t see that having a Remain PM and Parliament contrive to keep us in the EU, three years after we voted to Leave, might not feel like our side being given a go and failing.
>
> Maybe if you took some responsibility for your own actions and stop blaming others you might achieve more. You had the leaders of the Leave campaign in the cabinet and Leavers run the negotiations and enough Leave votes in Parliament.
>
> Maybe just maybe your lot made some errors.
When the one person in charge is a self obsessed authoritarian who listens to no one and has no understanding of the reasons people voted Leave in the first place, being in the cabinet is about as much use as sitting in Parliament Square with a megaphone.
> .> @isam said:
>
> > 4/6 now May goes before July 🤔
>
>
>
> The devil is in the detail. There must be a prime minister, and that will be Theresa May even if she announces her resignation after meeting Brady tomorrow, until a successor is appointed. In other words, we might be betting on the length of a Conservative Party election process.
>
>
>
> In the past, these party elections have been circumvented entirely when only one candidate was nominated, as when Michael Howard took over from IDS, or cut short, when the second-placed candidate withdraws before the wider membership can vote, as happened last time when Theresa May succeeded David Cameron rather sooner than he had anticipated.
>
>
>
> So really any time between March and October is possible, even if Theresa May sets the contest in motion tomorrow. If she hangs on, perhaps even later.
>
> I’ve put my money where my mouth is.
>
> In less than an hour this morning, May gone by July has gone 1.74 from 1.5 😳
Does she resign as leader of the Tories on the day she announces it but stay on as PM until there is a successor? The bet is on the Tory leadership rather than being PM.
> > @Benpointer said:
> > https://twitter.com/montie/status/1131468046126714880
> >
> >
> >
> > ... says rich and powerful Tim Montgomerie.
>
> and switching to the party of the oligarchs!
>
> Time for https://www.hugedomains.com/domain_profile.cfm?d=brexithome&e=com ???
>
The Tory party has never been the party of the little guy's actual material interests. Like the republican party in the U.S.A, and to a certain extent like an increasing number of right-centre parties in mainland europe, it is increasingly becoming the party of the little guy's anger, though.
> > @isam said:
> > https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1131467640353038337
> >
> >
> >
> > If he doesn’t get a snap of himself buying one, that’s a fail
>
> Did you not read the sign? They're free!
>
> But yes, he should get one.
OGH is right. It is irresponsible, and it is a pound to a penny someone chucks one over the hander-outer if she is not careful, as well as over any passing former metals traders. But more likely she was there for 10 minutes for press photos and then went back to her day job as a high court judge or some such.
Welsh Assembly voting intention (regional):
BREX: 23% (+23)
PC: 22% (+1)
LAB: 21% (-11)
CON: 12% (-7)
GRN: 8% (+5)
LDEM: 7% (-)
UKIP: 1% (-12)
via @YouGov, 16 - 20 May Chgs. w/ 2016 resul
LOL !
> What happened to the country that put on the Olympics in 2012.
>
>
>
> The country's moral, cultural and political decline since then has been precipitous. We only need economic decline to get the full nap hand.
We are still at the top for cultural power
https://www.britishcouncil.org/research-policy-insight/insight-articles/top-soft-power-2018
I think I've said before it seems from a distance that Dems care more about winning than anything this time: and winning means Biden.
> > @Dura_Ace said:
> > What happened to the country that put on the Olympics in 2012.
> >
> >
> >
> > The country's moral, cultural and political decline since then has been precipitous. We only need economic decline to get the full nap hand.
>
> We are still at the top for cultural power
>
> https://www.britishcouncil.org/research-policy-insight/insight-articles/top-soft-power-2018
Cultural power and cultural healthiness are not the same thing, however.
Or do we just ignore "strong and stable" etal?
> > @TheWhiteRabbit said:
> > > @isam said:
> > > https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1131467640353038337
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If he doesn’t get a snap of himself buying one, that’s a fail
> >
> > Did you not read the sign? They're free!
> >
> > But yes, he should get one.
>
> OGH is right. It is irresponsible, and it is a pound to a penny someone chucks one over the hander-outer if she is not careful, as well as over any passing former metals traders. But more likely she was there for 10 minutes for press photos and then went back to her day job as a high court judge or some such.
Hard to say, she could be some kind of events girl paid £10 an hour to do some guerilla advertising for some rank health drink that is struggling to get any attention in an over saturated market.
> Anyone seen this welsh assembly VI poll ?
>
> Welsh Assembly voting intention (regional):
> BREX: 23% (+23)
> PC: 22% (+1)
> LAB: 21% (-11)
> CON: 12% (-7)
> GRN: 8% (+5)
> LDEM: 7% (-)
> UKIP: 1% (-12)
> via @YouGov, 16 - 20 May Chgs. w/ 2016 resul
>
> LOL !
Would be amusing to have Mark Reckless as First Minister of Wales
> https://twitter.com/Andrew_ComRes/status/1131426404527235073?s=20
Ouch
> > @Pulpstar said:
> > Anyone seen this welsh assembly VI poll ?
> >
> > Welsh Assembly voting intention (regional):
> > BREX: 23% (+23)
> > PC: 22% (+1)
> > LAB: 21% (-11)
> > CON: 12% (-7)
> > GRN: 8% (+5)
> > LDEM: 7% (-)
> > UKIP: 1% (-12)
> > via @YouGov, 16 - 20 May Chgs. w/ 2016 resul
> >
> > LOL !
>
> Would be amusing to have Mark Reckless as First Minister of Wales
If there was any result that would terrify Labour into supporting a Brexit deal, it is the idea of losing Wales....
> > @Pulpstar said:
> > Anyone seen this welsh assembly VI poll ?
> >
> > Welsh Assembly voting intention (regional):
> > BREX: 23% (+23)
> > PC: 22% (+1)
> > LAB: 21% (-11)
> > CON: 12% (-7)
> > GRN: 8% (+5)
> > LDEM: 7% (-)
> > UKIP: 1% (-12)
> > via @YouGov, 16 - 20 May Chgs. w/ 2016 resul
> >
> > LOL !
>
> Would be amusing to have Mark Reckless as First Minister of Wales
You don’t get to be FM with just 23% of the vote. As Ruth and her BBC chums are yet to understand.
> > @HYUFD said:
> > https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/1131428944782266369?s=20
>
> wow - talk about leaving yourself open at the back with no keeper....
Not a lot of self awareness on display there from big bad Al.
> FL by the way, was the key state in biden's route to the nomination in a piece i posted a week or two ago, from iirc the new york times.
His lead is bigger than Farage has in the euros !*
* Obviously he shouldn't be as short a price as the Euros are today.
Who will the 5th one be?
Dark horse folks.
> > @Pulpstar said:
> > Anyone seen this welsh assembly VI poll ?
> >
> > Welsh Assembly voting intention (regional):
> > BREX: 23% (+23)
> > PC: 22% (+1)
> > LAB: 21% (-11)
> > CON: 12% (-7)
> > GRN: 8% (+5)
> > LDEM: 7% (-)
> > UKIP: 1% (-12)
> > via @YouGov, 16 - 20 May Chgs. w/ 2016 resul
> >
> > LOL !
>
> Would be amusing to have Mark Reckless as First Minister of Wales
Voting uses AMS. With three parties on 21%, 22% and 23% should be interesting.
> The 4th Tory leader destroyed by the European question.
>
> Who will the 5th one be?
Boris is the hot favorite right now for that, and destroyed he will be if he gets the crown.
> > @Cyclefree said:
> > The 4th Tory leader destroyed by the European question.
> >
> > Who will the 5th one be?
>
> Boris is the hot favorite right now for that, and destroyed he will be if he gets the crown.
Maybe, maybe not but only after destroying Corbyn first
> > @HYUFD said:
> > > @Pulpstar said:
> > > Anyone seen this welsh assembly VI poll ?
> > >
> > > Welsh Assembly voting intention (regional):
> > > BREX: 23% (+23)
> > > PC: 22% (+1)
> > > LAB: 21% (-11)
> > > CON: 12% (-7)
> > > GRN: 8% (+5)
> > > LDEM: 7% (-)
> > > UKIP: 1% (-12)
> > > via @YouGov, 16 - 20 May Chgs. w/ 2016 resul
> > >
> > > LOL !
> >
> > Would be amusing to have Mark Reckless as First Minister of Wales
>
> Voting uses AMS. With three parties on 21%, 22% and 23% should be interesting.
If that was the result I'd have thought it'd be a Plaid led administration with confidence from Labour.
But I think we will be saying before too long that this is clearly Biden's to lose.
> What happened to the country that put on the Olympics in 2012.
>
>
>
> The country's moral, cultural and political decline since then has been precipitous. We only need economic decline to get the full nap hand.
And the Queen's body double who parachuted in to the stadium is sadly no longer with us.
1. The European election ballot paper is HUGE.
2. There is a massive amount of space to write in a screed if you so choose BUT if planning to do so, take a pencil sharpener - I discovered the little stubbies in the polling booth blunt quite quickly.
3. "Voted" at the same time as in the locals. Polling at the same point in the locals was about 3 times heavier in the same polling station.
4. There were three independents. I mean, why???
> > @Endillion said:
> > > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > > > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > I really don’t think that the absence of a consensus is down to saboteurs (the MPs,incidentally, were elected after the referendum result). It’s down to a vile referendum campaign, followed by Leavers competing to set purity tests and whip up paranoia about traitors and quislings. But most of all it is down to Leavers being utterly clueless about what they do want as opposed to what they don’t want.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Slightly unfair to Leavers, I think. They want the UK to be masters of its own ship and the EU, which they never much liked, to go away out of their lives.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Problem is, Brexit gives the exact opposite. We will never be more beholden to the EU, which will dominate our lives much more comprehensively than ever before.
> > >
> > > The EU is not going away out of their lives whatever happens. It's the supranational body equivalent of Piers Morgan.
> >
> > You voted to remain in the supranational body equivalent of Piers Morgan? For heaven's sake, why?
>
> Sometimes the choice is between bad and worse. Clueless xenophobia torching Britain’s civic institutions is worse than staying in an irritating, lumbering but essential benign organisation.
>
> No Leaver could honestly say that the country is in a better place than it was three years ago.
I'll say it is.
Wages are up. Unemployment is down. Business is in a massive boom (and I work for a supplier to British Steel, and can still say that!). The political scene is a mess, but other than that, things are going really really well - probably because the politicians have been so distracted by Brexit they've temporarily stopped meddling with other things they don't understand like the economy.