> @Foxy said: > > @FrancisUrquhart said: > > One incredible stat (and why British Steel among other steel producers are really in trouble)...China last year produced more steel in one year than the entire total production of steel in the UK from the start of time. > > 2 years, I think. > > https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1130817944836018177?s=19
I wonder what the carbon emissions on all that Chinese steel was.
The UK press is at its worst when they scent a corpse. Bullies. A shame, cos TM actually "got it" today. A speech that was open, consensual, and full of good sense and practical ideas for ways forward. Unfortunately, after 3 years of her talking utter and complete bollocks about the situation, no one was prepared to hear what she should have said then.
She needs to fall on her sword, for the sake of her party and the country . She surely can’t attempt to get MV4 through now , it would be the definition of insanity
> @initforthemoney said: > > @OblitusSumMe said: > > > Do we want to be reduced to a sole producer of steel in the country? Would none be okay? > > Why wouldn't it be OK? >
Steel for our tanks made in China, um! Difficult to explain, might as well ask the Chinese to make them for us
> If only Jamie Oliver had called himself British Steel.
A year after they've closed those restaurants will be in use as restaurants.
A year after a steelworks closes it wont be in use as a steelworks.
With trade wars seemingly kicking off every 5 seconds, McDonnell might have had half of perhaps a point on the radio today. At any rate equity might be a better idea than a loan to the steelworks.
I asked in the last thread how no-dealers expect to win? Why would they not want a referendum when it is by far the most plausible way of getting no deal.
For balance how do non Corbyn remainers (LD, SNP, CUK, Blairite Labour) expect to win?
Why are they turning down a 2nd referendum offer now? They have the votes to block Brexit currently, but not for revoke. The chances of a non Corbyn remain majority in parliament after a GE are negligible so they can either aim for indefinite delay, or accept a deal from May, Corbyn or the new Tory leader. Are they ever going to get a better offer than they have got today? Probably not.
I've just typed a very long answer and deleted it because it made me angry. Suffice to say that I deprecated those MPs...
> @MarqueeMark said: > > @GIN1138 said: > > Brutal, brutal newspaper headlines for May and the Tories.... > > Pah, it's not as if there are any elections happening any time soon......
> @Pulpstar said: > > @Omnium said: > > > If only Jamie Oliver had called himself British Steel. > > > > A year after they've closed those restaurants will be in use as restaurants. > > > > A year after a steelworks closes it wont be in use as a steelworks. > > With trade wars seemingly kicking off every 5 seconds, McDonnell might have had half of perhaps a point on the radio today. At any rate equity might be a better idea than a loan to the steelworks.
> @isam said: > > @kle4 said: > > > We deserve Boris. Or Corbyn. > > > > It is rapidly becoming Corbyn or Farage. Time to pick a side, Comrade. > > Corbyn then. he's more incompetent so the risk may be less. We deserve Boris. Or Corbyn. > > I suspect we'll get both. > > Probably. > > could be all three. boris until he loses an election to Corbyn, who gets in supported by brexit revoking lib dems, followed by farage in the election after that! > > Please, I'm about to try to sleep. Shudder.Why did she pull these weird faces? > > Take a snap shot of many people mid expression change and they can look very weird. > > > Have you never seen her speak? She is up there with Gordon Brown in the facial tic stakes. It’s almost mocking the disabled to use those photos, and the Sun’s headline is a disgrace
I have never seen it diagnosed in him but I believe Brown suffers from non verbal tourettes. I suggest that because I suffer from it myself and his facial contortions are very similar to my own. At times when it has got really bad I have strained tendons in my neck so hard I have managed to pull or tear them. It was one reason I always had a lot more sympathy for Brown than politics would have allowed.
Good move today I think by May, it gives Labour MPs who might support her Deal a way out, they can now say to Leave constituents if they voted for the WA they voted for Brexit and to Remain party members they voted for a referendum.
Yes, the nationalists, LDs, Corbyn, Labour Remainers and ERG No Deal hardliners rejected it but that was inevitable and they were not May's target audience, that was Labour MPs from Leave seats.
Also just got back from a good dinner with Liam Fox, he was very positive about the prospects for investment both here and abroad but also concerned about the impact of No Deal on the Union
> @HYUFD said: > Good move today I think by May, it gives Labour MPs who might support her Deal a way out, they can now say to Leave constituents if they voted for the WA they voted for Brexit and to Remain party members they voted for a referendum. > > Yes, the nationalists, LDs, Corbyn, Labour Remainers and ERG No Deal hardliners rejected it but that was inevitable and they were not May's target audience, that was Labour MPs from Leave seats. > > > Also just got back from a good dinner with Liam Fox, he was very positive about the prospects for investment both here and abroad but also concerned about the impact of No Deal on the Union
Really May should go now, for her own sake, as much anything. First thing tomorrow, frankly. Pack her bags. Tell her party that they can sort out an interim PM and leader then head for the airport for a very long holiday. She has tried her best but she has simply not been up to the job.
The Tory party is unleadable at the moment. Brexit in the form promised by the Leave campaign is undeliverable. Let someone else take the burden on and come up with a plan. I hold no great hope that they will. But maybe it is time for all those criticising to take on the responsibility for delivering. Eventually the penny will drop. Hammond is the only one who spoke any sense this evening, at least on the clip on Newsnight I saw. A fat lot of good it will do him or us.
And maybe miracles will occur and the likes of Johnson, Raab, Leadsom and others will stun us with hitherto undiscovered reserves of talent, competence, planning and leadership skills.
> @HYUFD said: > Good move today I think by May, it gives Labour MPs who might support her Deal a way out, they can now say to Leave constituents if they voted for the WA they voted for Brexit and to Remain party members they voted for a referendum. > > Yes, the nationalists, LDs, Corbyn, Labour Remainers and ERG No Deal hardliners rejected it but that was inevitable and they were not May's target audience, that was Labour MPs from Leave seats. > > > Also just got back from a good dinner with Liam Fox, he was very positive about the prospects for investment both here and abroad but also concerned about the impact of No Deal on the Union
> @kle4 said: > It will actually be funny to see how quickly the papers turn on Boris if he fails to deliver, which is quite possible as if there were an easy way through this for party and country it would have happened already. Who is going to be the Tory Scott Morrison?
It is up to the Commons to deliver, either the WA or they will have to choose No Deal or Revoke in October. If it comes to that and the WA fails again Boris might call a snap general election in the autumn on a No Deal and renegotiate platform
> @noneoftheabove said: > > @Richard_Tyndall said: > > FPT Benpointer said: > > > > > So we should just vote blindly, or for whichever party has the best logo? > > > > -------------- > > > > It would be no worse than what we do now. Manifesto pledges are utterly worthless and simply designed to deceive people into thinking a party is promising to follow a particular policy when in fact they will dump it as son as they get elected. > > > > Alternatively, instead of getting rid of manifestos, make them legally binding. That should make parties think twice before they print their lies. > > How would that work if there is a coalition!? > > Even if a party won outright, what if there was a global financial crisis? Or a war? Or a major health crisis? Of course governments need to be able to do things differently to their manifesto pledges over a 5 year term as in the real world events matter. > > Until the age of social media, people were perfectly capable of understanding manifestos as a statement of desired objectives, it is pathetic that so many now pretend they are to be seen as a univeral law of nature.
What is pathetic is that people still believe a word that politicians say. What is the point of wasting money on manifestos when we all know they are utterly worthless.
> > > So we should just vote blindly, or for whichever party has the best logo?
> >
> > --------------
> >
> > It would be no worse than what we do now. Manifesto pledges are utterly worthless and simply designed to deceive people into thinking a party is promising to follow a particular policy when in fact they will dump it as son as they get elected.
> >
> > Alternatively, instead of getting rid of manifestos, make them legally binding. That should make parties think twice before they print their lies.
>
> How would that work if there is a coalition!?
>
> Even if a party won outright, what if there was a global financial crisis? Or a war? Or a major health crisis? Of course governments need to be able to do things differently to their manifesto pledges over a 5 year term as in the real world events matter.
>
> Until the age of social media, people were perfectly capable of understanding manifestos as a statement of desired objectives, it is pathetic that so many now pretend they are to be seen as a univeral law of nature.
What is pathetic is that people still believe a word that politicians say. What is the point of wasting money on manifestos when we all know they are utterly worthless.
Yes, quite. Ditto the waste paper that lands on my doormat day after day at election time and which goes straight in the recycling regardless of who it is from. Propaganda wallahs should get a life and do something more constructive with their evenings. Is anyone really stupid enough to afford any credence to this garbage?
Well, anyway. As rough Boris slouches towards Bethlehem and Farage appoints Peter Creedy as his lieutenant, perhaps some niceness is in order. It doesn't rock my boat myself, but some of you like this nostalgia-ry stuff. So here is the trailer for the upcoming Downton Abbey movie. Enjoy.
Just remembered about a UKIP MEP jailed for a EU expenses £500k fraud back in 2015, Farage has questions from the EU to answer about £400k from Aaron Banks, could be interesting if remains an MEP. BBC News - Former MEP Ashley Mote jailed over expenses fraud http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33508850
If Gove han't knifed Boris, we would have been three years ahead of the curve.....
You could be right. Boris might have done a reverse ferret and discovered 18 months ago that he really, really wanted us to stay in the EU. After all, he's betrayed everyone else who's trusted him - it would be odd indeed if he didn't betray those who think he's a a committed Brexiteer.
That is the ray of hope for the party and country; if he wants to grasp the opportunity, he needs to be a bit more specific about one-nation Conservatism than he has been so far. Getting Hammond, Rudd, Clark and Gauke on his side might convince us.
> @dixiedean said: > > @HYUFD said: > > Good move today I think by May, it gives Labour MPs who might support her Deal a way out, they can now say to Leave constituents if they voted for the WA they voted for Brexit and to Remain party members they voted for a referendum. > > > > Yes, the nationalists, LDs, Corbyn, Labour Remainers and ERG No Deal hardliners rejected it but that was inevitable and they were not May's target audience, that was Labour MPs from Leave seats. > > > > > > Also just got back from a good dinner with Liam Fox, he was very positive about the prospects for investment both here and abroad but also concerned about the impact of No Deal on the Union > > How was the wine? You must have had a few. Very good, I even won a House of Commons Whisky in the raffle
> @HYUFD said: > Good move today I think by May, it gives Labour MPs who might support her Deal a way out, they can now say to Leave constituents if they voted for the WA they voted for Brexit and to Remain party members they voted for a referendum. > > Yes, the nationalists, LDs, Corbyn, Labour Remainers and ERG No Deal hardliners rejected it but that was inevitable and they were not May's target audience, that was Labour MPs from Leave seats. > > > Also just got back from a good dinner with Liam Fox, he was very positive about the prospects for investment both here and abroad but also concerned about the impact of No Deal on the Union
I admire your optimism .
Unfortunately there’s more chance of me voting for the Brexit Party than Mays deal going through .
The Bill won’t even get to the Commons , it will be pulled and May will resign after the recess.
They may aswell just recess till September , because nothing is going to happen until a new leader comes in.
The most remarkable thing about the Euro Elections wiki page @isam links to, is that, under the sub-heading "Campaign", someone has managed to cobble together 3 paragraphs for Labour, and 2 for the Tories!
> @Richard_Nabavi said: > Very good, I even won a House of Commons Whisky in the raffle > > Good for you. Might not have been wise to drink it all tonight, though.
Indeed and not only because I have got to get up for work in the morning
> @Richard_Nabavi said: > If Gove han't knifed Boris, we would have been three years ahead of the curve..... > > You could be right. Boris might have done a reverse ferret and discovered 18 months ago that he really, really wanted us to stay in the EU. After all, he's betrayed everyone else who's trusted him - it would be odd indeed if he didn't betray those who think he's a a committed Brexiteer. > > That is the ray of hope for the party and country; if he wants to grasp the opportunity, he needs to be a bit more specific about one-nation Conservatism than he has been so far. Getting Hammond, Rudd, Clark and Gauke on his side might convince us.
The party do not want Hammond, Rudd, Clark, Gauke or Grieve anywhere near the decision making process. They would rather have Redwood, heaven help us
> @HYUFD said: > > @Richard_Nabavi said: > > Very good, I even won a House of Commons Whisky in the raffle > > > > Good for you. Might not have been wise to drink it all tonight, though. > > Indeed and not only because I have got to get up for work in the morning
> @Foxy said: > On the subject of British Steel, therin lies the real problems of globalisation causing discontent in Middlesborough and Ohio.
Well, the fundamental issue is that we have neither indigenous cheap energy nor domestic iron ore.
That doesn't mean there isn't an opportunity for a steel industry: but it will have to be in higher value added steels, and not in ones for who 90% of the costs are imported raw materials.
> @nico67 said: > > @HYUFD said: > > Good move today I think by May, it gives Labour MPs who might support her Deal a way out, they can now say to Leave constituents if they voted for the WA they voted for Brexit and to Remain party members they voted for a referendum. > > > > Yes, the nationalists, LDs, Corbyn, Labour Remainers and ERG No Deal hardliners rejected it but that was inevitable and they were not May's target audience, that was Labour MPs from Leave seats. > > > > > > Also just got back from a good dinner with Liam Fox, he was very positive about the prospects for investment both here and abroad but also concerned about the impact of No Deal on the Union > > I admire your optimism . > > Unfortunately there’s more chance of me voting for the Brexit Party than Mays deal going through . > > The Bill won’t even get to the Commons , it will be pulled and May will resign after the recess. > > They may aswell just recess till September , because nothing is going to happen until a new leader comes in. > > I still think it could go through because of Labour MPs from Leave seats who will return to Westminster having seen their local authority area voted heavily for the Brexit Party and will now realise if they vote against the WA it is revoke or No Deal in October. If they vote for the former they may lose their seat to the BP, if they vote for the latter or abstain Remainers in their party will never forgive them not to mention the threat to the Union and economy.
I think up to 100 Labour MPs could abstain or vote for the WA now allowing it to scrape through then they can tell their party they voted for the referendum after if it passes
> On the subject of British Steel, therin lies the real problems of globalisation causing discontent in Middlesborough and Ohio.
Well, the fundamental issue is that we have neither indigenous cheap energy nor domestic iron ore.
That doesn't mean there isn't an opportunity for a steel industry: but it will have to be in higher value added steels, and not in ones for who 90% of the costs are imported raw materials.
LOL! She's being subjected to the most brutal set of newspaper headlines we've seen for any PM since El Gord, her parliamentary party is in total uproar, her party in the country is in meltdown and heading for its worst defeat in its 200 year history... And there's no sign anyone in the Labour party has shifted their position in favour of her deal anyway...
> @rcs1000 said: > > @Foxy said: > > On the subject of British Steel, therin lies the real problems of globalisation causing discontent in Middlesborough and Ohio. > > Well, the fundamental issue is that we have neither indigenous cheap energy nor domestic iron ore. > > That doesn't mean there isn't an opportunity for a steel industry: but it will have to be in higher value added steels, and not in ones for who 90% of the costs are imported raw materials.
That is simply untrue. The UK has very large reserves of Iron Ore. But just like coal in a globalised market it is cheaper to import it from overseas than to mine our own. Moreover over 90% of steel is recycled and the vast majority of steel that Tata uses comes from recycling.
> @John_McLean said: > > @initforthemoney said: > > > @OblitusSumMe said: > > > > > Do we want to be reduced to a sole producer of steel in the country? Would none be okay? > > > > Why wouldn't it be OK? > > > > Steel for our tanks made in China, um! Difficult to explain, might as well ask the Chinese to make them for us
With all due respect, there are lots and lots of places we can buy steel from. Just as there are lots of places we can buy oil from.
> @Richard_Tyndall said: > > @rcs1000 said: > > > @Foxy said: > > > On the subject of British Steel, therin lies the real problems of globalisation causing discontent in Middlesborough and Ohio. > > > > Well, the fundamental issue is that we have neither indigenous cheap energy nor domestic iron ore. > > > > That doesn't mean there isn't an opportunity for a steel industry: but it will have to be in higher value added steels, and not in ones for who 90% of the costs are imported raw materials. > > That is simply untrue. The UK has very large reserves of Iron Ore. But just like coal in a globalised market it is cheaper to import it from overseas than to mine our own. Moreover over 90% of steel is recycled and the vast majority of steel that Tata uses comes from recycling. > > >
I should have said "cheap iron ore", you re absolutely right that we do have significant reserves.
But forcing a British steel companies to buy iron ore at an above world market price, would make them uncompetitive.
> @williamglenn said: > @HYUFD - Nandy and Kyle have said they won’t support it. Which 100 Labour MPs do you think will? Kyle will never support it, he is MP for Remain Hove and is a diehard Remainer, Nandy is a clueless airhead and deserves to lose her seat to Farage's gang.
Once the Brexit Party trounces Labour in all the other Labour Leave seats when those MPs attend their counts in their local authorities on Sunday that is when the panicking will start and the switches will start to occur and not before
> @Richard_Nabavi said: > If Gove han't knifed Boris, we would have been three years ahead of the curve..... > > You could be right. Boris might have done a reverse ferret and discovered 18 months ago that he really, really wanted us to stay in the EU. After all, he's betrayed everyone else who's trusted him - it would be odd indeed if he didn't betray those who think he's a a committed Brexiteer. > > That is the ray of hope for the party and country; if he wants to grasp the opportunity, he needs to be a bit more specific about one-nation Conservatism than he has been so far. Getting Hammond, Rudd, Clark and Gauke on his side might convince us.
One Nation Conservatism is gaseous guff, mere mood music and words invented by Baldwin about a 'harmonious society' to keep the reds at bay.
It seems to me Tories who identify as ONC now are just the socially liberal metropolitans who would feel equally at home in Change UK or the Lib Dems. The difference is rice paper.
Well spank my ass and call me Charlie! Not sure the former big two will find an easy way back from those if they are anyway close. And TSE will get both his bets to boot!
> @GIN1138 said: > > @HYUFD said: > > Good move today I think by May > > LOL! She's being subjected to the most brutal set of newspaper headlines we've seen for any PM since El Gord, her parliamentary party is in total uproar, her party in the country is in meltdown and heading for its worst defeat in its 200 year history... And there's no sign anyone in the Labour party has shifted their position in favour of her deal anyway... > > And you think Theresa's playing a blinder!!! > > *NURSE*
I do, her position of vote for her Deal then vote for a referendum gives Labour MPs from Leave seats a get out clause, they can vote for Brexit and the Deal to appease their constituents and reduce the BP threat then vote for a referendum to appease their membership.
The newspapers are all interested in headlines rather than strategic thinking and of course the Tories may suffer a heavy defeat but so will Labour and that will focus Labour MPs minds
> @GIN1138 said: > > @HYUFD said: > > Good move today I think by May > > LOL! She's being subjected to the most brutal set of newspaper headlines we've seen for any PM since El Gord, her parliamentary party is in total uproar, her party in the country is in meltdown and heading for its worst defeat in its 200 year history... And there's no sign anyone in the Labour party has shifted their position in favour of her deal anyway... > > And you think Theresa's playing a blinder!!! > > *NURSE*
"Game Of Thrones: Sophie Turner hits out at 'disrespectful' petition calling for remake The Sansa Stark actress says for fans to "rubbish" the series "because it's not what they want to see is just disrespectful"."
> @HYUFD said: > > @GIN1138 said: > > > @HYUFD said: > > > Good move today I think by May > > > > LOL! She's being subjected to the most brutal set of newspaper headlines we've seen for any PM since El Gord, her parliamentary party is in total uproar, her party in the country is in meltdown and heading for its worst defeat in its 200 year history... And there's no sign anyone in the Labour party has shifted their position in favour of her deal anyway... > > > > And you think Theresa's playing a blinder!!! > > > > *NURSE* > > I do, her position of vote for her Deal then vote for a referendum gives Labour MPs from Leave seats a get out clause, they can vote for Brexit and the Deal to appease their constituents and reduce the BP threat then vote for a referendum to appease their membership. > > The newspapers are all interested in headlines rather than strategic thinking and of course the Tories may suffer a heavy defeat but so will Labour and that will focus Labour MPs minds
All evidence so far points to polls and election results being distorted to reinforce each MP's pre-existing stances on Brexit, not to cause damascene changes of view on the WAB. Sunday will be no different, however low Labour poll. The Remain MPs will point to the Lib Dems and say they should be more explicitly a Remain party. Only 13% of Brexit Party support is coming from those who voted Labour in 2017, according to that YouGov.
Aren't these pretty similar to last YouGov figures... or does everyone adjust to the last poll out and everyone is now shocked because it is different to the ComRes poll?
> @KentRising said: > > @HYUFD said: > > > @GIN1138 said: > > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > Good move today I think by May > > > > > > LOL! She's being subjected to the most brutal set of newspaper headlines we've seen for any PM since El Gord, her parliamentary party is in total uproar, her party in the country is in meltdown and heading for its worst defeat in its 200 year history... And there's no sign anyone in the Labour party has shifted their position in favour of her deal anyway... > > > > > > And you think Theresa's playing a blinder!!! > > > > > > *NURSE* > > > > I do, her position of vote for her Deal then vote for a referendum gives Labour MPs from Leave seats a get out clause, they can vote for Brexit and the Deal to appease their constituents and reduce the BP threat then vote for a referendum to appease their membership. > > > > The newspapers are all interested in headlines rather than strategic thinking and of course the Tories may suffer a heavy defeat but so will Labour and that will focus Labour MPs minds > > All evidence so far points to polls and election results being distorted to reinforce each MP's pre-existing stances on Brexit, not to cause damascene changes of view on the WAB. Sunday will be no different, however low Labour poll. The Remain MPs will point to the Lib Dems and say they should be more explicitly a Remain party. Only 13% of Brexit Party support is coming from those who voted Labour in 2017, according to that YouGov.
Irrelevant because that 13% will be enough to see dozens of Labour authorities sweep to the Brexit Party given the vast number of Tory voters voting Brexit Party too and enough to see Labour Leave seats fall to the Brexit Party like skittles if repeated at a general election.
If Labour MPs from Leave seats vote against the WA Macron likely vetoes further extension and by October they will then have to vote for revoke to stop No Deal, if they do so they may as well paint a target on their back for Farage
> @John_McLean said: > > @initforthemoney said: > > > @OblitusSumMe said: > > > > > Do we want to be reduced to a sole producer of steel in the country? Would none be okay? > > > > Why wouldn't it be OK? > > > > Steel for our tanks made in China, um! Difficult to explain, might as well ask the Chinese to make them for us
There's plenty of choice about where to buy steel from.
> @TheJezziah said: > Aren't these pretty similar to last YouGov figures... or does everyone adjust to the last poll out and everyone is now shocked because it is different to the ComRes poll?
The changes with the last YouGov are, TBP +3 LDs +2 LAB -2 GRN +1 CON -2 CUK nc UKP nc So I think those are changes worth noting on, particularly as they exaggerate the difference compared to some other polls.
> Aren't these pretty similar to last YouGov figures... or does everyone adjust to the last poll out and everyone is now shocked because it is different to the ComRes poll?
The changes with the last YouGov are,
TBP +3
LDs +2
LAB -2
GRN +1
CON -2
CUK nc
UKP nc
So I think that are changes worth noting on, particularly as they exaggerate the difference compared to some other polls.
Ahh cheers, TBP is decent but the rest are within (usual) margin of error. They are changes admittedly but not particularly shocking when taking into account YouGov's last poll.
Be interested to see how the pollsters do, will we be getting polls on Wednesday and then nothing allowed on Thursday?
> @TheJezziah said: > Not a fan of all the pictures chosen of May on the front pages, no need for it and it comes across as bullying. > > I wonder how good some of those involved in choosing the picture would look in the same situation.
Long term the papers are as dead as the Tories I think. No flowers.
> Ahh cheers, TBP is decent but the rest are within (usual) margin of error. They are changes admittedly but not particularly shocking when taking into account YouGov's last poll. > > Be interested to see how the pollsters do, will we be getting polls on Wednesday and then nothing allowed on Thursday?
I think the comment is because the 7% for the Tories is a new low, similarly the 13% for Labour, the Lib Dem 19% equals their high in this campaign, the 37% is a new high for the Brexit Party, 12% for the Greens is a new high for this campaign - that's quite a lot of new ground being covered by this poll.
Boris Johnson is overwhelmingly the Tory leader Labour activists fear most according to a new poll of Labour members, 40% more fear him than second placed Rory Stewart
> @TheJezziah said: > Sunday, someone said at 10pm.
The results cannot be made public until 10pm Sunday under EU law when all polls will have closed across the EU - but verification and counting of the votes at local authority level will be done before then in the UK. So its simply then a matter of adding them up at a regional level and allocating seats won. So it does happen quite quickly although it only takes one slow council to delay the results - the BBC results show for example is due to end at 3am compared to 6am for the local elections.
Most countries vote on Sunday but in line with tradition the UK and the Netherlands vote tomorrow and Ireland on Friday with Malta, Latvia and Slovakia voting on Saturday. The Czechs uniquely get the entire weekend to vote!
Johnson is the lead candidate... yet he's twice as likely not to win as he is to win. Doesn't tally with the aura of inevitability around him on fora like this. Suggests the prognostications of nerds like us is out of sync with those who put their money where there mouths are.
> @ah009 said: > Johnson is the lead candidate... yet he's twice as likely not to win as he is to win. > Doesn't tally with the aura of inevitability around him on fora like this. > Suggests the prognostications of nerds like us is out of sync with those who put their money where there mouths are. > > Will be interesting to see who's right.
I don't understand who you're arguing with - where are you seeing an aura of inevitability???
"The sheer folly of suspending Michael Heseltine from the Conservative whip defies both logic and belief."
"Withdrawing the whip from such a man — on an issue of conscience — is an over-reaction that will encourage many moderate Conservatives to follow Michael’s example."
> @edmundintokyo said: > > @ah009 said: > > Johnson is the lead candidate... yet he's twice as likely not to win as he is to win. > > Doesn't tally with the aura of inevitability around him on fora like this. > > Suggests the prognostications of nerds like us is out of sync with those who put their money where there mouths are. > > > > Will be interesting to see who's right. > > I don't understand who you're arguing with - where are you seeing an aura of inevitability???
I'm not arguing with anyone. Just detecting a sense in these BTLs that people here think Johnson is nailed on. Markets have him as a 1/3 shot. Feels like a mismatch and I'm interested to know who's right
> @brendan16 said: > > @AndyJS said: > > O/T > > > > This has to be the ultimate in snowflakery. > > > > https://news.sky.com/story/game-of-thrones-sophie-turner-hits-out-at-disrespectful-petition-calling-for-remake-11725627 > > > > "Game Of Thrones: Sophie Turner hits out at 'disrespectful' petition calling for remake > > The Sansa Stark actress says for fans to "rubbish" the series "because it's not what they want to see is just disrespectful"." > > Not really - if I was part of the team including the actors who made the series I would feel a bit insulted. > > Without them there would have been no show to refilm in the first place - its over done move on.... > > >
Well I don't agree. You can't be insulted by people criticising a work of art like a TV drama.
> @viewcode said: > Well, anyway. As rough Boris slouches towards Bethlehem and Farage appoints Peter Creedy as his lieutenant, perhaps some niceness is in order. It doesn't rock my boat myself, but some of you like this nostalgia-ry stuff. So here is the trailer for the upcoming Downton Abbey movie. Enjoy.
Thanks for that. A bit like Mrs May its hard to believe the Violet, the Dowager Duchess of Grantham is still going - Maggie Smith's character must be about 100 years old by now!
Comments
> > @FrancisUrquhart said:
> > One incredible stat (and why British Steel among other steel producers are really in trouble)...China last year produced more steel in one year than the entire total production of steel in the UK from the start of time.
>
> 2 years, I think.
>
> https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1130817944836018177?s=19
I wonder what the carbon emissions on all that Chinese steel was.
Unfortunately, after 3 years of her talking utter and complete bollocks about the situation, no one was prepared to hear what she should have said then.
> If only Jamie Oliver had called himself British Steel.
A year after they've closed those restaurants will be in use as restaurants.
A year after a steelworks closes it wont be in use as a steelworks.
> PMQ's tomorrow? What's the betting on them going ahead?
>
> What’s the point? Is the government actually doing anything?
1922 committee meeting tomorrow morning....
> Do we want to be reduced to a sole producer of steel in the country? Would none be okay?
Why wouldn't it be OK?
> > @OblitusSumMe said:
>
> > Do we want to be reduced to a sole producer of steel in the country? Would none be okay?
>
> Why wouldn't it be OK?
>
Steel for our tanks made in China, um! Difficult to explain, might as well ask the Chinese to make them for us
> https://twitter.com/silvesterldn/status/1130957742708023296
Looks like he's not running.....
> https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1130959816090894337
How many times have they said we really mean it this time.
> > @GIN1138 said:
> > Brutal, brutal newspaper headlines for May and the Tories....
>
> Pah, it's not as if there are any elections happening any time soon......
LMAO
Can they get 8 or lower?
> > @Omnium said:
>
> > If only Jamie Oliver had called himself British Steel.
>
>
>
> A year after they've closed those restaurants will be in use as restaurants.
>
>
>
> A year after a steelworks closes it wont be in use as a steelworks.
>
> With trade wars seemingly kicking off every 5 seconds, McDonnell might have had half of perhaps a point on the radio today. At any rate equity might be a better idea than a loan to the steelworks.
Indeed.
> > @isam said:
> > https://twitter.com/bbcnews/status/1130944400660606978
> >
> > > @rottenborough said:
> >
> > > Blimey they have been reading PB this afternoon:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1130944175078301697
> >
> > The Telegraph really has gone down hill. Lacks class.
> >
> > Finding unflattering photos to lead with is pretty cheap and classless.
>
> It appears to be the way all the papers have gone. Not that that's right, but...
I agree. Cheap.
> https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1130962372754067456<;
++++
Hah. He really said that? Good gag. Bravo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_European_Parliament_election_in_the_United_Kingdom
Good grief. I feel sorry for Davies there! So loathsome is his fellow Brexiteer verbal assailant he says she makes him want to become a Remainer!
> > @Scott_P said:
> > https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1130959816090894337
>
> How many times have they said we really mean it this time.
Indeed. It has become entirely meaningless. She'll still be PM on Monday and battling on as this interminable hell continues.
> > @kle4 said:
>
> > We deserve Boris. Or Corbyn.
>
>
>
> It is rapidly becoming Corbyn or Farage. Time to pick a side, Comrade.
>
> Corbyn then. he's more incompetent so the risk may be less. We deserve Boris. Or Corbyn.
>
> I suspect we'll get both.
>
> Probably.
>
> could be all three. boris until he loses an election to Corbyn, who gets in supported by brexit revoking lib dems, followed by farage in the election after that!
>
> Please, I'm about to try to sleep. Shudder.Why did she pull these weird faces?
>
> Take a snap shot of many people mid expression change and they can look very weird.
>
>
> Have you never seen her speak? She is up there with Gordon Brown in the facial tic stakes. It’s almost mocking the disabled to use those photos, and the Sun’s headline is a disgrace
I have never seen it diagnosed in him but I believe Brown suffers from non verbal tourettes. I suggest that because I suffer from it myself and his facial contortions are very similar to my own. At times when it has got really bad I have strained tendons in my neck so hard I have managed to pull or tear them. It was one reason I always had a lot more sympathy for Brown than politics would have allowed.
Yes, the nationalists, LDs, Corbyn, Labour Remainers and ERG No Deal hardliners rejected it but that was inevitable and they were not May's target audience, that was Labour MPs from Leave seats.
Also just got back from a good dinner with Liam Fox, he was very positive about the prospects for investment both here and abroad but also concerned about the impact of No Deal on the Union
> Good move today I think by May, it gives Labour MPs who might support her Deal a way out, they can now say to Leave constituents if they voted for the WA they voted for Brexit and to Remain party members they voted for a referendum.
>
> Yes, the nationalists, LDs, Corbyn, Labour Remainers and ERG No Deal hardliners rejected it but that was inevitable and they were not May's target audience, that was Labour MPs from Leave seats.
>
>
> Also just got back from a good dinner with Liam Fox, he was very positive about the prospects for investment both here and abroad but also concerned about the impact of No Deal on the Union
Unspoofably HYUFD.
Really May should go now, for her own sake, as much anything. First thing tomorrow, frankly. Pack her bags. Tell her party that they can sort out an interim PM and leader then head for the airport for a very long holiday. She has tried her best but she has simply not been up to the job.
The Tory party is unleadable at the moment. Brexit in the form promised by the Leave campaign is undeliverable. Let someone else take the burden on and come up with a plan. I hold no great hope that they will. But maybe it is time for all those criticising to take on the responsibility for delivering. Eventually the penny will drop. Hammond is the only one who spoke any sense this evening, at least on the clip on Newsnight I saw. A fat lot of good it will do him or us.
And maybe miracles will occur and the likes of Johnson, Raab, Leadsom and others will stun us with hitherto undiscovered reserves of talent, competence, planning and leadership skills.
> Good move today I think by May, it gives Labour MPs who might support her Deal a way out, they can now say to Leave constituents if they voted for the WA they voted for Brexit and to Remain party members they voted for a referendum.
>
> Yes, the nationalists, LDs, Corbyn, Labour Remainers and ERG No Deal hardliners rejected it but that was inevitable and they were not May's target audience, that was Labour MPs from Leave seats.
>
>
> Also just got back from a good dinner with Liam Fox, he was very positive about the prospects for investment both here and abroad but also concerned about the impact of No Deal on the Union
How was the wine? You must have had a few.
> It will actually be funny to see how quickly the papers turn on Boris if he fails to deliver, which is quite possible as if there were an easy way through this for party and country it would have happened already. Who is going to be the Tory Scott Morrison?
It is up to the Commons to deliver, either the WA or they will have to choose No Deal or Revoke in October. If it comes to that and the WA fails again Boris might call a snap general election in the autumn on a No Deal and renegotiate platform
> > @Richard_Tyndall said:
> > FPT Benpointer said:
> >
> > > So we should just vote blindly, or for whichever party has the best logo?
> >
> > --------------
> >
> > It would be no worse than what we do now. Manifesto pledges are utterly worthless and simply designed to deceive people into thinking a party is promising to follow a particular policy when in fact they will dump it as son as they get elected.
> >
> > Alternatively, instead of getting rid of manifestos, make them legally binding. That should make parties think twice before they print their lies.
>
> How would that work if there is a coalition!?
>
> Even if a party won outright, what if there was a global financial crisis? Or a war? Or a major health crisis? Of course governments need to be able to do things differently to their manifesto pledges over a 5 year term as in the real world events matter.
>
> Until the age of social media, people were perfectly capable of understanding manifestos as a statement of desired objectives, it is pathetic that so many now pretend they are to be seen as a univeral law of nature.
What is pathetic is that people still believe a word that politicians say. What is the point of wasting money on manifestos when we all know they are utterly worthless.
> We deserve Boris. Or Corbyn.
Could be Boris then Corbyn then Farage or Corbyn then Farage then Boris, who knows
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgnXY-KV9W8
> https://twitter.com/bbcwalesnews/status/1130940872445579264?s=21
What an awful woman. I think we've all encountered people like her at one time or another.
BBC News - Former MEP Ashley Mote jailed over expenses fraud
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33508850
That is the ray of hope for the party and country; if he wants to grasp the opportunity, he needs to be a bit more specific about one-nation Conservatism than he has been so far. Getting Hammond, Rudd, Clark and Gauke on his side might convince us.
> > @HYUFD said:
> > Good move today I think by May, it gives Labour MPs who might support her Deal a way out, they can now say to Leave constituents if they voted for the WA they voted for Brexit and to Remain party members they voted for a referendum.
> >
> > Yes, the nationalists, LDs, Corbyn, Labour Remainers and ERG No Deal hardliners rejected it but that was inevitable and they were not May's target audience, that was Labour MPs from Leave seats.
> >
> >
> > Also just got back from a good dinner with Liam Fox, he was very positive about the prospects for investment both here and abroad but also concerned about the impact of No Deal on the Union
>
> How was the wine? You must have had a few.
Very good, I even won a House of Commons Whisky in the raffle
> Good move today I think by May, it gives Labour MPs who might support her Deal a way out, they can now say to Leave constituents if they voted for the WA they voted for Brexit and to Remain party members they voted for a referendum.
>
> Yes, the nationalists, LDs, Corbyn, Labour Remainers and ERG No Deal hardliners rejected it but that was inevitable and they were not May's target audience, that was Labour MPs from Leave seats.
>
>
> Also just got back from a good dinner with Liam Fox, he was very positive about the prospects for investment both here and abroad but also concerned about the impact of No Deal on the Union
I admire your optimism .
Unfortunately there’s more chance of me voting for the Brexit Party than Mays deal going through .
The Bill won’t even get to the Commons , it will be pulled and May will resign after the recess.
They may aswell just recess till September , because nothing is going to happen until a new leader comes in.
> Very good, I even won a House of Commons Whisky in the raffle
>
> Good for you. Might not have been wise to drink it all tonight, though.
Indeed and not only because I have got to get up for work in the morning
> If Gove han't knifed Boris, we would have been three years ahead of the curve.....
>
> You could be right. Boris might have done a reverse ferret and discovered 18 months ago that he really, really wanted us to stay in the EU. After all, he's betrayed everyone else who's trusted him - it would be odd indeed if he didn't betray those who think he's a a committed Brexiteer.
>
> That is the ray of hope for the party and country; if he wants to grasp the opportunity, he needs to be a bit more specific about one-nation Conservatism than he has been so far. Getting Hammond, Rudd, Clark and Gauke on his side might convince us.
The party do not want Hammond, Rudd, Clark, Gauke or Grieve anywhere near the decision making process. They would rather have Redwood, heaven help us
> > @Richard_Nabavi said:
> > Very good, I even won a House of Commons Whisky in the raffle
> >
> > Good for you. Might not have been wise to drink it all tonight, though.
>
> Indeed and not only because I have got to get up for work in the morning
Time for bed! Good night all.
> On the subject of British Steel, therin lies the real problems of globalisation causing discontent in Middlesborough and Ohio.
Well, the fundamental issue is that we have neither indigenous cheap energy nor domestic iron ore.
That doesn't mean there isn't an opportunity for a steel industry: but it will have to be in higher value added steels, and not in ones for who 90% of the costs are imported raw materials.
> > @HYUFD said:
> > Good move today I think by May, it gives Labour MPs who might support her Deal a way out, they can now say to Leave constituents if they voted for the WA they voted for Brexit and to Remain party members they voted for a referendum.
> >
> > Yes, the nationalists, LDs, Corbyn, Labour Remainers and ERG No Deal hardliners rejected it but that was inevitable and they were not May's target audience, that was Labour MPs from Leave seats.
> >
> >
> > Also just got back from a good dinner with Liam Fox, he was very positive about the prospects for investment both here and abroad but also concerned about the impact of No Deal on the Union
>
> I admire your optimism .
>
> Unfortunately there’s more chance of me voting for the Brexit Party than Mays deal going through .
>
> The Bill won’t even get to the Commons , it will be pulled and May will resign after the recess.
>
> They may aswell just recess till September , because nothing is going to happen until a new leader comes in.
>
>
I still think it could go through because of Labour MPs from Leave seats who will return to Westminster having seen their local authority area voted heavily for the Brexit Party and will now realise if they vote against the WA it is revoke or No Deal in October. If they vote for the former they may lose their seat to the BP, if they vote for the latter or abstain Remainers in their party will never forgive them not to mention the threat to the Union and economy.
I think up to 100 Labour MPs could abstain or vote for the WA now allowing it to scrape through then they can tell their party they voted for the referendum after if it passes
> Good move today I think by May
LOL! She's being subjected to the most brutal set of newspaper headlines we've seen for any PM since El Gord, her parliamentary party is in total uproar, her party in the country is in meltdown and heading for its worst defeat in its 200 year history... And there's no sign anyone in the Labour party has shifted their position in favour of her deal anyway...
And you think Theresa's playing a blinder!!!
*NURSE*
> https://twitter.com/samcoatestimes/status/1130972569413267457?s=21
Getting ever closer to AVE ITS prediction of 40% for the Brexit Paty!
> > @Foxy said:
> > On the subject of British Steel, therin lies the real problems of globalisation causing discontent in Middlesborough and Ohio.
>
> Well, the fundamental issue is that we have neither indigenous cheap energy nor domestic iron ore.
>
> That doesn't mean there isn't an opportunity for a steel industry: but it will have to be in higher value added steels, and not in ones for who 90% of the costs are imported raw materials.
That is simply untrue. The UK has very large reserves of Iron Ore. But just like coal in a globalised market it is cheaper to import it from overseas than to mine our own. Moreover over 90% of steel is recycled and the vast majority of steel that Tata uses comes from recycling.
>
> Getting ever closer to AVE ITS prediction of 40% for the Brexit
It’s also getting close to Labour 4th.
> > @initforthemoney said:
> > > @OblitusSumMe said:
> >
> > > Do we want to be reduced to a sole producer of steel in the country? Would none be okay?
> >
> > Why wouldn't it be OK?
> >
>
> Steel for our tanks made in China, um! Difficult to explain, might as well ask the Chinese to make them for us
With all due respect, there are lots and lots of places we can buy steel from. Just as there are lots of places we can buy oil from.
Auturky is rarely a sensible route to prosperity
> > @rcs1000 said:
> > > @Foxy said:
> > > On the subject of British Steel, therin lies the real problems of globalisation causing discontent in Middlesborough and Ohio.
> >
> > Well, the fundamental issue is that we have neither indigenous cheap energy nor domestic iron ore.
> >
> > That doesn't mean there isn't an opportunity for a steel industry: but it will have to be in higher value added steels, and not in ones for who 90% of the costs are imported raw materials.
>
> That is simply untrue. The UK has very large reserves of Iron Ore. But just like coal in a globalised market it is cheaper to import it from overseas than to mine our own. Moreover over 90% of steel is recycled and the vast majority of steel that Tata uses comes from recycling.
>
>
>
I should have said "cheap iron ore", you re absolutely right that we do have significant reserves.
But forcing a British steel companies to buy iron ore at an above world market price, would make them uncompetitive.
> @HYUFD - Nandy and Kyle have said they won’t support it. Which 100 Labour MPs do you think will?
Kyle will never support it, he is MP for Remain Hove and is a diehard Remainer, Nandy is a clueless airhead and deserves to lose her seat to Farage's gang.
Once the Brexit Party trounces Labour in all the other Labour Leave seats when those MPs attend their counts in their local authorities on Sunday that is when the panicking will start and the switches will start to occur and not before
> If Gove han't knifed Boris, we would have been three years ahead of the curve.....
>
> You could be right. Boris might have done a reverse ferret and discovered 18 months ago that he really, really wanted us to stay in the EU. After all, he's betrayed everyone else who's trusted him - it would be odd indeed if he didn't betray those who think he's a a committed Brexiteer.
>
> That is the ray of hope for the party and country; if he wants to grasp the opportunity, he needs to be a bit more specific about one-nation Conservatism than he has been so far. Getting Hammond, Rudd, Clark and Gauke on his side might convince us.
One Nation Conservatism is gaseous guff, mere mood music and words invented by Baldwin about a 'harmonious society' to keep the reds at bay.
It seems to me Tories who identify as ONC now are just the socially liberal metropolitans who would feel equally at home in Change UK or the Lib Dems. The difference is rice paper.
> https://twitter.com/samcoatestimes/status/1130972569413267457?s=21
Well spank my ass and call me Charlie!
Not sure the former big two will find an easy way back from those if they are anyway close.
And TSE will get both his bets to boot!
> > @HYUFD said:
> > Good move today I think by May
>
> LOL! She's being subjected to the most brutal set of newspaper headlines we've seen for any PM since El Gord, her parliamentary party is in total uproar, her party in the country is in meltdown and heading for its worst defeat in its 200 year history... And there's no sign anyone in the Labour party has shifted their position in favour of her deal anyway...
>
> And you think Theresa's playing a blinder!!!
>
> *NURSE*
I do, her position of vote for her Deal then vote for a referendum gives Labour MPs from Leave seats a get out clause, they can vote for Brexit and the Deal to appease their constituents and reduce the BP threat then vote for a referendum to appease their membership.
The newspapers are all interested in headlines rather than strategic thinking and of course the Tories may suffer a heavy defeat but so will Labour and that will focus Labour MPs minds
> > @williamglenn said:
> > https://twitter.com/samcoatestimes/status/1130972569413267457?s=21
>
> Well spank my ass and call me Charlie!
> Not sure the former big two will find an easy way back from those if they are anyway close.
> And TSE will get both his bets to boot!
I'm pleased for TSE. Just worried for the rest of us.
> > @HYUFD said:
> > Good move today I think by May
>
> LOL! She's being subjected to the most brutal set of newspaper headlines we've seen for any PM since El Gord, her parliamentary party is in total uproar, her party in the country is in meltdown and heading for its worst defeat in its 200 year history... And there's no sign anyone in the Labour party has shifted their position in favour of her deal anyway...
>
> And you think Theresa's playing a blinder!!!
>
> *NURSE*
Harsh - but on balance fair.
This has to be the ultimate in snowflakery.
https://news.sky.com/story/game-of-thrones-sophie-turner-hits-out-at-disrespectful-petition-calling-for-remake-11725627
"Game Of Thrones: Sophie Turner hits out at 'disrespectful' petition calling for remake
The Sansa Stark actress says for fans to "rubbish" the series "because it's not what they want to see is just disrespectful"."
> > @dixiedean said:
> > > @williamglenn said:
> > > https://twitter.com/samcoatestimes/status/1130972569413267457?s=21
> >
> > Well spank my ass and call me Charlie!
> > Not sure the former big two will find an easy way back from those if they are anyway close.
> > And TSE will get both his bets to boot!
>
> I'm pleased for TSE. Just worried for the rest of us.
Yeah. It's serious...he'll be insufferable
> > @GIN1138 said:
> > > @HYUFD said:
> > > Good move today I think by May
> >
> > LOL! She's being subjected to the most brutal set of newspaper headlines we've seen for any PM since El Gord, her parliamentary party is in total uproar, her party in the country is in meltdown and heading for its worst defeat in its 200 year history... And there's no sign anyone in the Labour party has shifted their position in favour of her deal anyway...
> >
> > And you think Theresa's playing a blinder!!!
> >
> > *NURSE*
>
> I do, her position of vote for her Deal then vote for a referendum gives Labour MPs from Leave seats a get out clause, they can vote for Brexit and the Deal to appease their constituents and reduce the BP threat then vote for a referendum to appease their membership.
>
> The newspapers are all interested in headlines rather than strategic thinking and of course the Tories may suffer a heavy defeat but so will Labour and that will focus Labour MPs minds
All evidence so far points to polls and election results being distorted to reinforce each MP's pre-existing stances on Brexit, not to cause damascene changes of view on the WAB. Sunday will be no different, however low Labour poll. The Remain MPs will point to the Lib Dems and say they should be more explicitly a Remain party. Only 13% of Brexit Party support is coming from those who voted Labour in 2017, according to that YouGov.
> > @dixiedean said:
> > > @williamglenn said:
> > > https://twitter.com/samcoatestimes/status/1130972569413267457?s=21
> >
> > Well spank my ass and call me Charlie!
> > Not sure the former big two will find an easy way back from those if they are anyway close.
> > And TSE will get both his bets to boot!
>
> I'm pleased for TSE. Just worried for the rest of us.
++++
OMFG
Britain has been Sindyreffed. Incredible.
> > @HYUFD said:
> > > @GIN1138 said:
> > > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > Good move today I think by May
> > >
> > > LOL! She's being subjected to the most brutal set of newspaper headlines we've seen for any PM since El Gord, her parliamentary party is in total uproar, her party in the country is in meltdown and heading for its worst defeat in its 200 year history... And there's no sign anyone in the Labour party has shifted their position in favour of her deal anyway...
> > >
> > > And you think Theresa's playing a blinder!!!
> > >
> > > *NURSE*
> >
> > I do, her position of vote for her Deal then vote for a referendum gives Labour MPs from Leave seats a get out clause, they can vote for Brexit and the Deal to appease their constituents and reduce the BP threat then vote for a referendum to appease their membership.
> >
> > The newspapers are all interested in headlines rather than strategic thinking and of course the Tories may suffer a heavy defeat but so will Labour and that will focus Labour MPs minds
>
> All evidence so far points to polls and election results being distorted to reinforce each MP's pre-existing stances on Brexit, not to cause damascene changes of view on the WAB. Sunday will be no different, however low Labour poll. The Remain MPs will point to the Lib Dems and say they should be more explicitly a Remain party. Only 13% of Brexit Party support is coming from those who voted Labour in 2017, according to that YouGov.
Irrelevant because that 13% will be enough to see dozens of Labour authorities sweep to the Brexit Party given the vast number of Tory voters voting Brexit Party too and enough to see Labour Leave seats fall to the Brexit Party like skittles if repeated at a general election.
If Labour MPs from Leave seats vote against the WA Macron likely vetoes further extension and by October they will then have to vote for revoke to stop No Deal, if they do so they may as well paint a target on their back for Farage
> > @initforthemoney said:
> > > @OblitusSumMe said:
> >
> > > Do we want to be reduced to a sole producer of steel in the country? Would none be okay?
> >
> > Why wouldn't it be OK?
> >
>
> Steel for our tanks made in China, um! Difficult to explain, might as well ask the Chinese to make them for us
There's plenty of choice about where to buy steel from.
> https://twitter.com/samcoatestimes/status/1130972569413267457?s=21
TBP 37%?
> Aren't these pretty similar to last YouGov figures... or does everyone adjust to the last poll out and everyone is now shocked because it is different to the ComRes poll?
The changes with the last YouGov are,
TBP +3
LDs +2
LAB -2
GRN +1
CON -2
CUK nc
UKP nc
So I think those are changes worth noting on, particularly as they exaggerate the difference compared to some other polls.
I wonder how good some of those involved in choosing the picture would look in the same situation.
> > @williamglenn said:
> > https://twitter.com/samcoatestimes/status/1130972569413267457?s=21
>
> TBP 37%?
To quote the blessed Kevin of Keegan, I'd love it absolutely love it if the BP polled that but I think it's going to be low 30s at best, is my hunch.
Be interested to see how the pollsters do, will we be getting polls on Wednesday and then nothing allowed on Thursday?
> Not a fan of all the pictures chosen of May on the front pages, no need for it and it comes across as bullying.
>
> I wonder how good some of those involved in choosing the picture would look in the same situation.
Long term the papers are as dead as the Tories I think. No flowers.
*Not really.
Friday ? Saturday ? Sunday ?
> Ahh cheers, TBP is decent but the rest are within (usual) margin of error. They are changes admittedly but not particularly shocking when taking into account YouGov's last poll.
>
> Be interested to see how the pollsters do, will we be getting polls on Wednesday and then nothing allowed on Thursday?
I think the comment is because the 7% for the Tories is a new low, similarly the 13% for Labour, the Lib Dem 19% equals their high in this campaign, the 37% is a new high for the Brexit Party, 12% for the Greens is a new high for this campaign - that's quite a lot of new ground being covered by this poll.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7052673/Mays-cabinet-war-No-Deal-Andrea-Leadsom-says-Britain-leave-EU-October-31.html
> Boris Johnson is overwhelmingly the Tory leader Labour activists fear most according to a new poll of Labour members, 40% more fear him than second placed Rory Stewart
>
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7052673/Mays-cabinet-war-No-Deal-Andrea-Leadsom-says-Britain-leave-EU-October-31.html
Obviously he has an appeal that I don't understand.
> Sunday, someone said at 10pm.
We have to wait until the polls close across Europe, and most of them vote on Sunday. Might be 9pm not 10pm because of the time difference.
> Boris Johnson is overwhelmingly the Tory leader Labour activists fear most according to a new poll of Labour members, 40% more fear him than second placed Rory Stewart
>
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7052673/Mays-cabinet-war-No-Deal-Andrea-Leadsom-says-Britain-leave-EU-October-31.html
If polling like this continues beyond the Euros, which Tory Labour activists fear will be spectacularly irrelevant.
> Sunday, someone said at 10pm.
The results cannot be made public until 10pm Sunday under EU law when all polls will have closed across the EU - but verification and counting of the votes at local authority level will be done before then in the UK. So its simply then a matter of adding them up at a regional level and allocating seats won. So it does happen quite quickly although it only takes one slow council to delay the results - the BBC results show for example is due to end at 3am compared to 6am for the local elections.
Most countries vote on Sunday but in line with tradition the UK and the Netherlands vote tomorrow and Ireland on Friday with Malta, Latvia and Slovakia voting on Saturday. The Czechs uniquely get the entire weekend to vote!
Doesn't tally with the aura of inevitability around him on fora like this.
Suggests the prognostications of nerds like us is out of sync with those who put their money where there mouths are.
Will be interesting to see who's right.
> O/T
>
> This has to be the ultimate in snowflakery.
>
> https://news.sky.com/story/game-of-thrones-sophie-turner-hits-out-at-disrespectful-petition-calling-for-remake-11725627
>
> "Game Of Thrones: Sophie Turner hits out at 'disrespectful' petition calling for remake
> The Sansa Stark actress says for fans to "rubbish" the series "because it's not what they want to see is just disrespectful"."
Not really - if I was part of the team including the actors who made the series I would feel a bit insulted.
Without them there would have been no show to refilm in the first place - its over done move on....
> Johnson is the lead candidate... yet he's twice as likely not to win as he is to win.
> Doesn't tally with the aura of inevitability around him on fora like this.
> Suggests the prognostications of nerds like us is out of sync with those who put their money where there mouths are.
>
> Will be interesting to see who's right.
I don't understand who you're arguing with - where are you seeing an aura of inevitability???
"The sheer folly of suspending Michael Heseltine from the Conservative whip defies both logic and belief."
"Withdrawing the whip from such a man — on an issue of conscience — is an over-reaction that will encourage many moderate Conservatives to follow Michael’s example."
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/times-letters-lord-heseltine-and-the-removal-of-the-whip-h0z6k2cg2
> > @ah009 said:
> > Johnson is the lead candidate... yet he's twice as likely not to win as he is to win.
> > Doesn't tally with the aura of inevitability around him on fora like this.
> > Suggests the prognostications of nerds like us is out of sync with those who put their money where there mouths are.
> >
> > Will be interesting to see who's right.
>
> I don't understand who you're arguing with - where are you seeing an aura of inevitability???
I'm not arguing with anyone. Just detecting a sense in these BTLs that people here think Johnson is nailed on. Markets have him as a 1/3 shot. Feels like a mismatch and I'm interested to know who's right
> > @AndyJS said:
> > O/T
> >
> > This has to be the ultimate in snowflakery.
> >
> > https://news.sky.com/story/game-of-thrones-sophie-turner-hits-out-at-disrespectful-petition-calling-for-remake-11725627
> >
> > "Game Of Thrones: Sophie Turner hits out at 'disrespectful' petition calling for remake
> > The Sansa Stark actress says for fans to "rubbish" the series "because it's not what they want to see is just disrespectful"."
>
> Not really - if I was part of the team including the actors who made the series I would feel a bit insulted.
>
> Without them there would have been no show to refilm in the first place - its over done move on....
>
>
>
Well I don't agree. You can't be insulted by people criticising a work of art like a TV drama.
> Well, anyway. As rough Boris slouches towards Bethlehem and Farage appoints Peter Creedy as his lieutenant, perhaps some niceness is in order. It doesn't rock my boat myself, but some of you like this nostalgia-ry stuff. So here is the trailer for the upcoming Downton Abbey movie. Enjoy.
Thanks for that. A bit like Mrs May its hard to believe the Violet, the Dowager Duchess of Grantham is still going - Maggie Smith's character must be about 100 years old by now!
> Just detecting a sense
¯\_(ツ)_/¯