> @kle4 said: > The fact he's trying to get the rules changed tells you he thinks he's doomed. > > The Con party membership will implode if Boris is not on the final 2 (or 4). > > So be it. > > Changing the rules is for losers, why won't Boris respect democracy instead of trying to rig it? > > Surely the people rigging democracy would be those making sure the likely choice of the electorate wasn’t on the ballot? > > The rules for both main parties to ensure any leader has the support of sufficient numbers of MPs are there for a good reason. It's pathetic that people who would fall foul of the rule blame their weakness among MPs as the system being unfair, it is not meant to be a completely democratic exercise. Why even have MP nominations at that point, the Tory membership would probably elect Farage as their leader if they could. > > It's like when people compare voting again in parliament with rerunning a referendum - there may be good arguments for the option people want, but the two situations are not actually comparable in scope or nature, and nor is equating the rules for leadership of a political party in a system which requires, in practice though not law, that said leader commands the confidence and support of the parliamentary party, with a presidential style election. > > And moaning about the rules is a lame route to go down. If support of MPs is a requirement, and it is for good reason, then it is the job of the candidates to prove themselves worthy by overcoming that hurdle, not seek to bypass it because they think they cannot do that. That would instill confidence in their ability to lead MPs if they won, would it? > > > @isam said: > > > > > > Surely the people rigging democracy would be those making sure the likely choice of the electorate wasn’t on the ballot? > > > > You either let all ice. > > Yet Remain should be on a second referendum ballot despite being defeated > > If there is one, many options should be on it, including no deal. It won't, but it should.@HYUFD - Nandy and Kyle have said they won’t support it. Which 100 Labour MPs do you think will? > > Nandy is proving to be very duplicitous. Makes noises that she might do thus it that, does not want this or that, but always on the key votes finds a reason to vote in a way which is leading toward remain.
> @TheJezziah said: > The only way Labour could have beaten the BP is if they had properly backed a second vote . Corbyn owns this whole sorry mess. A vote for Labour at the moment is a vote for Brexit. Many normal Labour voters like myself have had enough . > > I feel like you might be having too much fun going crazy in the meantime too stop but I expect Labour conference will pass a motion for a referendum on any deal although the leadership already seems to be moving in that direction anyway. > > Unless you expect Labour to sign up to a deal before conference then the party will be whipping for a referendum on anything else. I'm not saying you should be happy with Labour or not angry but practically unless Mays Deal somehow goes though I can't see how that deal will happen before conference. This isn't saying you should vote for Labour in the Euros (although I would prefer that) but you shouldn't worry too much about the party as a whole passing Brexit. > > Some small number of MPs doing it is always a possibility but the Tories will have to come together on a deal for that to happen. Which also seems unlikely. > > Maybe I am wrong but to me it looks like it is either a general election, a referendum or a Tory leader comes in and stays in power long enough to force no deal. > > In the general election Labour would end up backing a referendum on any deal and they would try to stop no deal. > > All roads seem to lead to Labour backing a referendum unless we are forced out with no deal by a Tory leader. > > Maybe I'm wrong...
You are wrong, May has now proposed a referendum vote before Corbyn
LOL, he is a shoe-in , it is the hapless Tories we are talking about here, he is the best of a rotten lot. They could not run a bath so fitting they put their biggest buffoon at the helm
> @TheJezziah said: > The only way Labour could have beaten the BP is if they had properly backed a second vote . Corbyn owns this whole sorry mess. A vote for Labour at the moment is a vote for Brexit. Many normal Labour voters like myself have had enough . > > I feel like you might be having too much fun going crazy in the meantime too stop but I expect Labour conference will pass a motion for a referendum on any deal although the leadership already seems to be moving in that direction anyway. > > Unless you expect Labour to sign up to a deal before conference then the party will be whipping for a referendum on anything else. I'm not saying you should be happy with Labour or not angry but practically unless Mays Deal somehow goes though I can't see how that deal will happen before conference. This isn't saying you should vote for Labour in the Euros (although I would prefer that) but you shouldn't worry too much about the party as a whole passing Brexit. > > Some small number of MPs doing it is always a possibility but the Tories will have to come together on a deal for that to happen. Which also seems unlikely. > > Maybe I am wrong but to me it looks like it is either a general election, a referendum or a Tory leader comes in and stays in power long enough to force no deal. > > In the general election Labour would end up backing a referendum on any deal and they would try to stop no deal. > > All roads seem to lead to Labour backing a referendum unless we are forced out with no deal by a Tory leader. > > Maybe I'm wrong...
The government says it is all the opposition's fault. The Conservatives say it is all Labour's fault. Am I missing anything before I go and lie down from the shock?
"The sheer folly of suspending Michael Heseltine from the Conservative whip defies both logic and belief."
"Withdrawing the whip from such a man — on an issue of conscience — is an over-reaction that will encourage many moderate Conservatives to follow Michael’s example."
Well that's a good thing, a split is appropriate. He openly and publicly supports another party, I really dont see how the party could not withdraw the whip from him. Theres no equivocation about it, no 'oh I might have seemed to encourage people to vote another way but not really' defence, he backs another party.
That's fine, and many party members will have voted for someone else in their time, but I dont understand the complaint of the party responding when you admit you no longer support them.
Major was fine with members openly saying they were voting for someone else when he was PM was he?
> @Morris_Dancer said: > Mr. Isam, it is ridiculous that they backed triggering Article 50 but won't actually choose any of the options. > > There's no deal, May's deal, and remaining after all. > > A lot of MPs are happy to rule out whatever they think unacceptable but unwilling to pick between the other two. It's all very well Hammond bleating about no deal, but given it seems impossible for May's deal to pass that means the only outcome he ought to support is remaining. > > Does he? No. > > Will the Commons actually vote for May's deal so they can get the referendum a majority seems to want? No. > > Will they endorse no deal? No. > > I'm not a May fan. She's a terrible PM. But the Commons collectively is scarcely any better. They wrested control away from May and have used it to to decide precisely nothing.
If as is likely Macron vetoes further extension in October then the Commons will finally be forced to decide Revoke or No Deal, there being no further time for a new Deal or EUref2.
Only voting for the WA now then another referendum after offers the chance to avoid that, otherwise MPs will thoroughly deserve the awful choice they would then face
T> @TheJezziah said: > The only way Labour could have beaten the BP is if they had properly backed a second vote . Corbyn owns this whole sorry mess. A vote for Labour at the moment is a vote for Brexit. Many normal Labour voters like myself have had enough . > > I feel like you might be having too much fun going crazy in the meantime too stop but I expect Labour conference will pass a motion for a referendum on any deal although the leadership already seems to be moving in that direction anyway. > > Unless you expect Labour to sign up to a deal before conference then the party will be whipping for a referendum on anything else. I'm not saying you should be happy with Labour or not angry but practically unless Mays Deal somehow goes though I can't see how that deal will happen before conference. This isn't saying you should vote for Labour in the Euros (although I would prefer that) but you shouldn't worry too much about the party as a whole passing Brexit. > > Some small number of MPs doing it is always a possibility but the Tories will have to come together on a deal for that to happen. Which also seems unlikely. > > Maybe I am wrong but to me it looks like it is either a general election, a referendum or a Tory leader comes in and stays in power long enough to force no deal. > > In the general election Labour would end up backing a referendum on any deal and they would try to stop no deal. > > All roads seem to lead to Labour backing a referendum unless we are forced out with no deal by a Tory leader. > > Maybe I'm wrong...
I agree with your post that Labour will eventually have to support a second EU ref on any deal . But in fence sitting now they’re giving a victory to the hate monger Farage . And although most Labour voters might go back to them once people start voting for other parties they find it easier again .
> It is rapidly becoming Corbyn or Farage. Time to pick a side, Comrade.
>
> Corbyn then. he's more incompetent so the risk may be less. We deserve Boris. Or Corbyn.
>
> I suspect we'll get both.
>
> Probably.
>
> could be all three. boris until he loses an election to Corbyn, who gets in supported by brexit revoking lib dems, followed by farage in the election after that!
>
> Please, I'm about to try to sleep. Shudder.Why did she pull these weird faces?
>
> Take a snap shot of many people mid expression change and they can look very weird. <
++++
T May grimaces a LOT, however. It is unfortunate and disconcerting, but it is clearly a part of her. Awkward and ungainly, and sometimes robotic. That's what she is.
In her final agony, I have a lot of sympathy for her. I think she genuinely did her best, she's just not a very good politician, and she is truly terrible at strategy and negotiation. She was absolutely the wrong choice at absolutely the worst time.
Sad. For all.
No sympathy , she has known for a long time she is not up to it and has had plenty opportunity to bow out gracefully. She chose to hang on by her fingernails at all costs and deserves every bit of ridicule as she is laughed off the stage.
> @HYUFD said: > > @TheJezziah said: > > The only way Labour could have beaten the BP is if they had properly backed a second vote . Corbyn owns this whole sorry mess. A vote for Labour at the moment is a vote for Brexit. Many normal Labour voters like myself have had enough . > > > > I feel like you might be having too much fun going crazy in the meantime too stop but I expect Labour conference will pass a motion for a referendum on any deal although the leadership already seems to be moving in that direction anyway. > > > > Unless you expect Labour to sign up to a deal before conference then the party will be whipping for a referendum on anything else. I'm not saying you should be happy with Labour or not angry but practically unless Mays Deal somehow goes though I can't see how that deal will happen before conference. This isn't saying you should vote for Labour in the Euros (although I would prefer that) but you shouldn't worry too much about the party as a whole passing Brexit. > > > > Some small number of MPs doing it is always a possibility but the Tories will have to come together on a deal for that to happen. Which also seems unlikely. > > > > Maybe I am wrong but to me it looks like it is either a general election, a referendum or a Tory leader comes in and stays in power long enough to force no deal. > > > > In the general election Labour would end up backing a referendum on any deal and they would try to stop no deal. > > > > All roads seem to lead to Labour backing a referendum unless we are forced out with no deal by a Tory leader. > > > > Maybe I'm wrong... > > You are wrong, May has now proposed a referendum vote before Corbyn
She hasn't proposed a referendum vote. She has pointed out that those that who want one can add an amendment to that effect, ONCE they have passed the second reading. They could do that anyway.
It wasn't a concession. It didn't convince any remainers and pissed off leavers. It rebounded on her.
It would have been very different if she had included a second referendum in the bill itself, and whipped support for it. But her Cabinet wouldn't support that. She tried her best, bless her.
With the main parties redundant for tomorrow, i shall be lending my vote to the yellow peril...
that it should come to this...
I considered TBP but ended up voting Tory (wasted in London)
Rationale - I want to leave (not LD) but want a deal (not TBP) and dislike Farage (not TBP). Abstaining is wrong and I didn’t like any of the minor parties. I can’t vote for an anti-Semite/fellow traveller which rules out Labour.
Tories have done nothing to earn my vote. But I want to signal to leave with a deal & they are going to get beaten up anyway so better to try and bolster that effort.
In a way it makes sense. No true remainer will ever win that members ballot. So all the remain tories need to pick a leader they can get behind, and Boris is their best bet precisely because he's so unprincipled that he may just turn on Brexit once in office.
> @IanB2 said: > The probability that Boris would turn out to be another Brown - having spent his entire life since childhood wanting the job, he won’t have a clue what to do with it - seems high. > > Just hope the Tory MPs haven’t lost their senses entirely. Although evidence isn’t encouraging right now.
Boris is nothing like Brown, he is one of the most charismatic members of the Commons for starters, Brown has the charisma of a lamppost.
The Tories have to get back Brexit Party voters, Boris will do so
I'd love to see both main parties below 10%. Can't say they don't deserve it.
Would be fun but labour were reasonably high and the drop in polling has been very sudden, so that looks a challenge. I think the Tories were looking good to stay above 10 but the reaction to May might see them closer to 5 now. The members and mps will explode and ensures that the party will adopt Brexit party policy. Just a question of what Grieve and co do, and ones like Rudd and Hammond.
> The probability that Boris would turn out to be another Brown - having spent his entire life since childhood wanting the job, he won’t have a clue what to do with it - seems high.
>
> Just hope the Tory MPs haven’t lost their senses entirely. Although evidence isn’t encouraging right now.
Boris is nothing like Brown, he is one of the most charismatic members of the Commons for starters, Brown has the charisma of a lamppost.
The Tories have to get back Brexit Party voters, Boris will do so
The guy who voted for the deal to surrender to the EU?
Jez blew it. Competing with Farage for Brexit votes WHILST trying to hold on to Remain votes was an 'interesting' strategy, especially during an EU election.
What no-one saw was how much that would revive the LibDems. And that looks like a very significant blunder.
Corbyn has had a strategy of ignoring the 40%+ of non-Corbynite Labour members/voters because they had nowhere else to go.
He has inadvertently created somewhere for them to go. A massive own goal.
> @eristdoof said: > > @HYUFD said: > > > @GIN1138 said: > > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > Good move today I think by May > > > > > > LOL! She's being subjected to the most brutal set of newspaper headlines we've seen for any PM since El Gord, her parliamentary party is in total uproar, her party in the country is in meltdown and heading for its worst defeat in its 200 year history... And there's no sign anyone in the Labour party has shifted their position in favour of her deal anyway... > > > > > > And you think Theresa's playing a blinder!!! > > > > > > *NURSE* > > > > I do, her position of vote for her Deal then vote for a referendum gives Labour MPs from Leave seats a get out clause, they can vote for Brexit and the Deal to appease their constituents and reduce the BP threat then vote for a referendum to appease their membership. > > > > This is a leaver-tory projecting his/her opinion onto Labour MPs. It is certainly not how a Labour MP is going to think. >
It is when they see the Brexit Party overwhelmingly winning their local authority area on Sunday and panic about losing their seat
> @HYUFD said: > > @kle4 said: > > The fact he's trying to get the rules changed tells you he thinks he's doomed. > > > > The Con party membership will implode if Boris is not on the final 2 (or 4). > > > > So be it. > > > > Changing the rules is for losers, why won't Boris respect democracy instead of trying to rig it? > > > > Surely the people rigging democracy would be those making sure the likely choice of the electorate wasn’t on the ballot? > > > > The rules for both main parties to ensure any leader has the support of sufficient numbers of MPs are there for a good reason. It's pathetic that people who would fall foul of the rule blame their weakness among MPs as the system being unfair, it is not meant to be a completely democratic exercise. Why even have MP nominations at that point, the Tory membership would probably elect Farage as their leader if they could. > > > > It's like when people compare voting again in parliament with rerunning a referendum - there may be good arguments for the option people want, but the two situations are not actually comparable in scope or nature, and nor is equating the rules for leadership of a political party in a system which requires, in practice though not law, that said leader commands the confidence and support of the parliamentary party, with a presidential style election. > > > > And moaning about the rules is a lame route to go down. If support of MPs is a requirement, and it is for good reason, then it is the job of the candidates to prove themselves worthy by overcoming that hurdle, not seek to bypass it because they think they cannot do that. That would instill confidence in their ability to lead MPs if they won, would it? > > > > > @isam said: > > > > > > > > > > Surely the people rigging democracy would be those making sure the likely choice of the electorate wasn’t on the ballot? > > > > > > > > You either let all ice. > > > > Yet Remain should be on a second referendum ballot despite being defeated > > > > If there is one, many options should be on it, including no deal. It won't, but it should.@HYUFD - Nandy and Kyle have said they won’t support it. Which 100 Labour MPs do you think will? > > > > Nandy is proving to be very duplicitous. Makes noises that she might do thus it that, does not want this or that, but always on the key votes finds a reason to vote in a way which is leading toward remain. > > Nandy has not got a clue
Nandy is shrewd - a good political operator. She looks innocent, even naive. She isn't.
> @TheJezziah said: > @HYUFD > > There is a reason second referendum supporting MPs aren't supporting May on this > > @Peter_the_Punter > > That wasn't a plea to vote Labour, more a don't worry too much too Nico who seems to get very annoyed at Labour's position.
Noted with thanks, Jezz.
Been a Labour supporter for fifty years. Am perfectly used to some of its extraordinary positions!
> > Good move today I think by May, it gives Labour MPs who might support her Deal a way out, they can now say to Leave constituents if they voted for the WA they voted for Brexit and to Remain party members they voted for a referendum.
> >
> > Yes, the nationalists, LDs, Corbyn, Labour Remainers and ERG No Deal hardliners rejected it but that was inevitable and they were not May's target audience, that was Labour MPs from Leave seats.
> >
> >
> > Also just got back from a good dinner with Liam Fox, he was very positive about the prospects for investment both here and abroad but also concerned about the impact of No Deal on the Union
>
> How was the wine? You must have had a few.
Very good, I even won a House of Commons Whisky in the raffle
LOL, says it all , dinner with an absolute donkey, all on the public purse. You have to crowbar these Tories from the trough. He will have looked after himself very well for sure.
> It is rapidly becoming Corbyn or Farage. Time to pick a side, Comrade.
>
> Corbyn then. he's more incompetent so the risk may be less. We deserve Boris. Or Corbyn.
>
> I suspect we'll get both.
>
> Probably.
>
> could be all three. boris until he loses an election to Corbyn, who gets in supported by brexit revoking lib dems, followed by farage in the election after that!
>
> Please, I'm about to try to sleep. Shudder.Why did she pull these weird faces?
>
> Take a snap shot of many people mid expression change and they can look very weird. <
++++
T May grimaces a LOT, however. It is unfortunate and disconcerting, but it is clearly a part of her. Awkward and ungainly, and sometimes robotic. That's what she is.
In her final agony, I have a lot of sympathy for her. I think she genuinely did her best, she's just not a very good politician, and she is truly terrible at strategy and negotiation. She was absolutely the wrong choice at absolutely the worst time.
Sad. For all.
No sympathy , she has known for a long time she is not up to it and has had plenty opportunity to bow out gracefully. She chose to hang on by her fingernails at all costs and deserves every bit of ridicule as she is laughed off the stage.
Less than no sympathy. I feel sorry for all the people who have had their lives immiserated by her and party not her.
> > Good move today I think by May, it gives Labour MPs who might support her Deal a way out, they can now say to Leave constituents if they voted for the WA they voted for Brexit and to Remain party members they voted for a referendum.
> >
> > Yes, the nationalists, LDs, Corbyn, Labour Remainers and ERG No Deal hardliners rejected it but that was inevitable and they were not May's target audience, that was Labour MPs from Leave seats.
> >
> >
> > Also just got back from a good dinner with Liam Fox, he was very positive about the prospects for investment both here and abroad but also concerned about the impact of No Deal on the Union
>
> How was the wine? You must have had a few.
Very good, I even won a House of Commons Whisky in the raffle
LOL, says it all , dinner with an absolute donkey, all on the public purse. You have to crowbar these Tories from the trough. He will have looked after himself very well for sure.
> @HYUFD said: > > @eristdoof said: > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > @GIN1138 said: > > > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > > Good move today I think by May > > > > > > > > LOL! She's being subjected to the most brutal set of newspaper headlines we've seen for any PM since El Gord, her parliamentary party is in total uproar, her party in the country is in meltdown and heading for its worst defeat in its 200 year history... And there's no sign anyone in the Labour party has shifted their position in favour of her deal anyway... > > > > > > > > And you think Theresa's playing a blinder!!! > > > > > > > > *NURSE* > > > > > > I do, her position of vote for her Deal then vote for a referendum gives Labour MPs from Leave seats a get out clause, they can vote for Brexit and the Deal to appease their constituents and reduce the BP threat then vote for a referendum to appease their membership. > > > > > > > This is a leaver-tory projecting his/her opinion onto Labour MPs. It is certainly not how a Labour MP is going to think. > > > > It is when they see the Brexit Party overwhelmingly winning their local authority area on Sunday and panic about losing their seat
Except Labour are losing just 13% of their 2017 vote to the Brexit Party . Of course I expect the media to spin the BP destroying both the big parties but it’s Remainers who are deserting the party not Leavers .
Will be interesting to see whether today’s other polling supports the Labour YouGov .
It’s really been just that pollster who has found such a low rating .
A few polling questions: Are a raft of polls expected? Is there a cut-off or can polls still be published tomorrow while the polling stations are open? Do we get exit polls at 10pm from the Euros?
> That wasn't a plea to vote Labour, more a don't worry too much too Nico who seems to get very annoyed at Labour's position.
Noted with thanks, Jezz.
Been a Labour supporter for fifty years. Am perfectly used to some of its extraordinary positions!
Ahh wasn't 100% on you, not enough angry posting, always easy to identify people's position when they put it across strongly. Pretty sure you weren't a Tory but a bit vague where.
> @Morris_Dancer said: > Mr. JohnL, doesn't necessarily make it false, though. > > Starmer's wibbled about having a referendum and now opposes the chance to vote for one. Seems rather peculiar.
May is offering a vote on a referendum only after her motion has passed. This is a pig in a poke and Labour are rightly rejecting it.
There needs to be a vote on an amendment for a referendum prior to the main vote. If the amendment passes Labour would likely support the deal. However the ERG and their fellow travellers would explode.
> @HYUFD said: > > @IanB2 said: > > The probability that Boris would turn out to be another Brown - having spent his entire life since childhood wanting the job, he won’t have a clue what to do with it - seems high. > > > > Just hope the Tory MPs haven’t lost their senses entirely. Although evidence isn’t encouraging right now. > > Boris is nothing like Brown, he is one of the most charismatic members of the Commons for starters, Brown has the charisma of a lamppost. > > The Tories have to get back Brexit Party voters, Boris will do so
Boris would be more like Presidents Trump, GW Bush or Reagan. The joking human face in front of the hard men running affairs behind the scenes. Like when he was Mayor and denied his regime's plans for Fire Brigade cuts.
Will be interesting to see whether today’s other polling supports the Labour YouGov .
It’s really been just that pollster who has found such a low rating .
A few polling questions: Are a raft of polls expected? Is there a cut-off or can polls still be published tomorrow while the polling stations are open? Do we get exit polls at 10pm from the Euros?
Doubt the later. They are expensive and anyway pretty sure EU would not allow the exit to be announced until rest of europe has voted - which is Sunday evening.
> @nico67 said: > > @HYUFD said: > > > @eristdoof said: > > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > > @GIN1138 said: > > > > > > @HYUFD said: > > > > > > Good move today I think by May > > > > > > > > > > LOL! She's being subjected to the most brutal set of newspaper headlines we've seen for any PM since El Gord, her parliamentary party is in total uproar, her party in the country is in meltdown and heading for its worst defeat in its 200 year history... And there's no sign anyone in the Labour party has shifted their position in favour of her deal anyway... > > > > > > > > > > And you think Theresa's playing a blinder!!! > > > > > > > > > > *NURSE* > > > > > > > > I do, her position of vote for her Deal then vote for a referendum gives Labour MPs from Leave seats a get out clause, they can vote for Brexit and the Deal to appease their constituents and reduce the BP threat then vote for a referendum to appease their membership. > > > > > > > > > > This is a leaver-tory projecting his/her opinion onto Labour MPs. It is certainly not how a Labour MP is going to think. > > > > > > > It is when they see the Brexit Party overwhelmingly winning their local authority area on Sunday and panic about losing their seat > > Except Labour are losing just 13% of their 2017 vote to the Brexit Party . Of course I expect the media to spin the BP destroying both the big parties but it’s Remainers who are deserting the party not Leavers .
Not in Leave seats which would fall to the Brexit Party if those 13% join most Tories in voting Brexit Party
> @HYUFD said: > Putting the latest Yougov Euro elections poll figures into Electoral Calculus gives a Brexit Party landslide if repeated under FPTP and Tory wipeout. > > The SNP would be the official opposition with Labour collapsing to third > > > https://twitter.com/Drastelne/status/1131102003017539584?s=20
> Not a fan of all the pictures chosen of May on the front pages, no need for it and it comes across as bullying.
>
> I wonder how good some of those involved in choosing the picture would look in the same situation.
That's right. EVERYONE can look bad if you photograph them often enough for long enough and pick the worst pictures. And I wonder if they'd do it if the PM was a man.
They did it to Brown often enough. That was fish in a barrel stuff though as he looked absolutely radged at least 80% of the time.
Given the Brexit Party are polling second in Scotland the Ruth Davidson project is no longer enough
Boris could lead to a formal separation of the Scottish party though. This has been mooted in the past. Even a new name.
Ruth Davidson stood in the Leadership election specifically on the platform of not splitting the party. Murdo Fraser had his one good idea in his political life suggested splitting the party and renaming as Unionist or something similar.
So it would be par for the course if she flip flopped on that.
> @Charles said: > With the main parties redundant for tomorrow, i shall be lending my vote to the yellow peril... > > > > that it should come to this... > > I considered TBP but ended up voting Tory (wasted in London) > > Rationale - I want to leave (not LD) but want a deal (not TBP) and dislike Farage (not TBP). Abstaining is wrong and I didn’t like any of the minor parties. I can’t vote for an anti-Semite/fellow traveller which rules out Labour. > > Tories have done nothing to earn my vote. But I want to signal to leave with a deal & they are going to get beaten up anyway so better to try and bolster that effort.
That's actually impeccable logic, Charles. Do try to keep it up, old chap.
> @Jonathan said: > Jez blew it. Competing with Farage for Brexit votes WHILST trying to hold on to Remain votes was an 'interesting' strategy, especially during an EU election. > > What no-one saw was how much that would revive the LibDems. And that looks like a very significant blunder. > > Corbyn has had a strategy of ignoring the 40%+ of non-Corbynite Labour members/voters because they had nowhere else to go. > > He has inadvertently created somewhere for them to go. A massive own goal.
Exactly . He’s basically revitalized the Lib Dems . Labour bleating about the Lib Dems broken student pledge is old news now . People are moving on. Corbyn has to realize that for some Labour voters staying in the EU is the reddest of red lines .
> @Barnesian said: > > @HYUFD said: > > > @kle4 said: > > > The fact he's trying to get the rules changed tells you he thinks he's doomed. > > > > > > The Con party membership will implode if Boris is not on the final 2 (or 4). > > > > > > So be it. > > > > > > Changing the rules is for losers, why won't Boris respect democracy instead of trying to rig it? > > > > > > Surely the people rigging democracy would be those making sure the likely choice of the electorate wasn’t on the ballot? > > > > > > The rules for both main parties to ensure any leader has the support of sufficient numbers of MPs are there for a good reason. It's pathetic that people who would fall foul of the rule blame their weakness among MPs as the system being unfair, it is not meant to be a completely democratic exercise. Why even have MP nominations at that point, the Tory membership would probably elect Farage as their leader if they could. > > > > > > It's like when people compare voting again in parliament with rerunning a referendum - there may be good arguments for the option people want, but the two situations are not actually comparable in scope or nature, and nor is equating the rules for leadership of a political party in a system which requires, in practice though not law, that said leader commands the confidence and support of the parliamentary party, with a presidential style election. > > > > > > And moaning about the rules is a lame route to go down. If support of MPs is a requirement, and it is for good reason, then it is the job of the candidates to prove themselves worthy by overcoming that hurdle, not seek to bypass it because they think they cannot do that. That would instill confidence in their ability to lead MPs if they won, would it? > > > > > > > @isam said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Surely the people rigging democracy would be those making sure the likely choice of the electorate wasn’t on the ballot? > > > > > > > > > > > > You either let all ice. > > > > > > Yet Remain should be on a second referendum ballot despite being defeated > > > > > > If there is one, many options should be on it, including no deal. It won't, but it should.@HYUFD - Nandy and Kyle have said they won’t support it. Which 100 Labour MPs do you think will? > > > > > > Nandy is proving to be very duplicitous. Makes noises that she might do thus it that, does not want this or that, but always on the key votes finds a reason to vote in a way which is leading toward remain. > > > > Nandy has not got a clue > > Nandy is shrewd - a good political operator. She looks innocent, even naive. She isn't.
So shrewd at the moment she is likely to lose her seat to the Brexit Party unless she votes for Brexit soon
> @kle4 said: > > @IanB2 said: > > > The probability that Boris would turn out to be another Brown - having spent his entire life since childhood wanting the job, he won’t have a clue what to do with it - seems high. > > > > > > Just hope the Tory MPs haven’t lost their senses entirely. Although evidence isn’t encouraging right now. > > > > Boris is nothing like Brown, he is one of the most charismatic members of the Commons for starters, Brown has the charisma of a lamppost. > > > > The Tories have to get back Brexit Party voters, Boris will do so > > The guy who voted for the deal to surrender to the EU?
> Jez blew it. Competing with Farage for Brexit votes WHILST trying to hold on to Remain votes was an 'interesting' strategy, especially during an EU election.
>
> What no-one saw was how much that would revive the LibDems. And that looks like a very significant blunder.
>
> Corbyn has had a strategy of ignoring the 40%+ of non-Corbynite Labour members/voters because they had nowhere else to go.
>
> He has inadvertently created somewhere for them to go. A massive own goal.
Exactly . He’s basically revitalized the Lib Dems . Labour bleating about the Lib Dems broken student pledge is old news now . People are moving on. Corbyn has to realize that for some Labour voters staying in the EU is the reddest of red lines .
Indeed: Student fees v. Staying in the EU?
The former is a big but old issue; the latter is massive and current.
> > The probability that Boris would turn out to be another Brown - having spent his entire life since childhood wanting the job, he won’t have a clue what to do with it - seems high.
>
> >
>
> > Just hope the Tory MPs haven’t lost their senses entirely. Although evidence isn’t encouraging right now.
>
>
>
> Boris is nothing like Brown, he is one of the most charismatic members of the Commons for starters, Brown has the charisma of a lamppost.
>
>
>
> The Tories have to get back Brexit Party voters, Boris will do so
>
> The guy who voted for the deal to surrender to the EU?
Still Brexit
So is May's deal but that doesn't seem to be making much traction with Tory members.
You imagine their is any other project than her promoting herself. If so she has kept it very well hidden unless it is repetition of "No more referendums if you are Scotland". When the lights shine on her she is seen as the donkey she is, the tame media can only fool the sheeple for so long and it looks like the wheels are well and truly of the Tory bus.
> > Not a fan of all the pictures chosen of May on the front pages, no need for it and it comes across as bullying.
>
> >
>
> > I wonder how good some of those involved in choosing the picture would look in the same situation.
>
>
>
> That's right. EVERYONE can look bad if you photograph them often enough for long enough and pick the worst pictures. And I wonder if they'd do it if the PM was a man.
>
> They did it to Brown often enough. That was fish in a barrel stuff though as he looked absolutely radged at least 80% of the time.
Brown is half blind. It shows in photographs.
The original post is spot on. It's bullying, underhand, and wrapped in plausible deniability.
Will be interesting to see whether today’s other polling supports the Labour YouGov .
It’s really been just that pollster who has found such a low rating .
A few polling questions: Are a raft of polls expected? Is there a cut-off or can polls still be published tomorrow while the polling stations are open? Do we get exit polls at 10pm from the Euros?
Doubt the later. They are expensive and anyway pretty sure EU would not allow the exit to be announced until rest of europe has voted - which is Sunday evening.
> @TheJezziah said: > > @TheJezziah said: > > > @HYUFD > > > > > > There is a reason second referendum supporting MPs aren't supporting May on this > > > > > > @Peter_the_Punter > > > > > > That wasn't a plea to vote Labour, more a don't worry too much too Nico who seems to get very annoyed at Labour's position. > > > > Noted with thanks, Jezz. > > > > Been a Labour supporter for fifty years. Am perfectly used to some of its extraordinary positions! > > Ahh wasn't 100% on you, not enough angry posting, always easy to identify people's position when they put it across strongly. Pretty sure you weren't a Tory but a bit vague where. > > Remain voter as well I assume. > > @nico67 > > If it is any consolation the Brexit Party doing well will probably do a lot more harm to the Conservatives in time, not ideal but silver linings.
That sounds like a compliment, Jezz!
Yes, I'm a Remainer alright, in fact one of the Site's more extreme Europhiles. I'm a little more diffident about Labour, especially with Jeremy and His Gang in charge. Voted LD in the Euros, by post a while back.
> @Benpointer said: > Will be interesting to see whether today’s other polling supports the Labour YouGov . > > > > It’s really been just that pollster who has found such a low rating . > > A few polling questions: > Are a raft of polls expected? > Is there a cut-off or can polls still be published tomorrow while the polling stations are open? > Do we get exit polls at 10pm from the Euros?
I think the law is you can publish the poll on Thursday with the fieldwork conducted before then but you can’t poll on that day itself and release the results until the polls have closed.
However for the Euros there won’t be exit polls before Sunday night . This could bias voting in other countries and isn’t allowed under EU law.
> @HYUFD said: > > @kle4 said: > > > @IanB2 said: > > > > > The probability that Boris would turn out to be another Brown - having spent his entire life since childhood wanting the job, he won’t have a clue what to do with it - seems high. > > > > > > > > > > Just hope the Tory MPs haven’t lost their senses entirely. Although evidence isn’t encouraging right now. > > > > > > > > Boris is nothing like Brown, he is one of the most charismatic members of the Commons for starters, Brown has the charisma of a lamppost. > > > > > > > > The Tories have to get back Brexit Party voters, Boris will do so > > > > The guy who voted for the deal to surrender to the EU? > > Still Brexit
Tell that to that woman who attacked David Davies.
Given the Brexit Party are polling second in Scotland the Ruth Davidson project is no longer enough
Boris could lead to a formal separation of the Scottish party though. This has been mooted in the past. Even a new name.
LOL, not with the Colonel in charge, she is tied to Mummy's apron strings. Her and Mundell will be Boris's toilet roll attendants for certain, they have had lots of practice.
> @rottenborough said: > > @Alistair said: > > > Chris Deerin has apiece in the New Statesman about how a Boris leadership victory would halt the Ruth Davidson project in its tracks. > > > > > > https://twitter.com/chrisdeerin/status/1130837414908432384 > > > > > > Given the Brexit Party are polling second in Scotland the Ruth Davidson project is no longer enough > > Boris could lead to a formal separation of the Scottish party though. This has been mooted in the past. Even a new name.
It's been mooted and always disappears like snow off a dyke. With the hardening of the Unionist/dependency psychology which deplores any kind of separation, I think it's more unlikely than ever unless the Tory party is irrevocably destroyed.
> @StuartDickson said: > > @philiph said: > > > @malcolmg said: > > > El > > > Oh > > > El > > > > > > https://twitter.com/ScotExpress/status/1130976703881404417 > > > > > > > > > > > > How many 360 degree turns can this useless chancer make. > > > > Don't 360 degree turns leave you facing the same way you started? > > Got me humming that old Dead or Alive hit. Now, where’s my eyepatch... ?
So are you saying that Madonna and Pete Burns... Are the same person?
> How many 360 degree turns can this useless chancer make.
Don't 360 degree turns leave you facing the same way you started?
I was going to say 720 given the amount of times she turns, but just went for double duplitious as I am in a good mood. She is lower than a snakes belly and can change her principles quicker than the speed of light, does that clarify.
Can I just point out the Euros and Westminster elections are different entities.
BP will be a flash in the pan, Nigel will struggle to get enough roasters to contest seats to start with and it will end with them in the dustbin alongside Theresa. People are not stupid enough to give that lot any real power, troughing in Brussels will be their high watermark.
> @Cicero said: > > @StuartDickson said: > > > @philiph said: > > > > @malcolmg said: > > > > El > > > > Oh > > > > El > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/ScotExpress/status/1130976703881404417 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How many 360 degree turns can this useless chancer make. > > > > > > Don't 360 degree turns leave you facing the same way you started? > > > > Got me humming that old Dead or Alive hit. Now, where’s my eyepatch... ? > > So are you saying that Madonna and Pete Burns... Are the same person?
Pete Burns would have done a better job at Eurovision.
> @HYUFD said: > > @IanB2 said: > > The probability that Boris would turn out to be another Brown - having spent his entire life since childhood wanting the job, he won’t have a clue what to do with it - seems high. > > > > Just hope the Tory MPs haven’t lost their senses entirely. Although evidence isn’t encouraging right now. > > Boris is nothing like Brown, he is one of the most charismatic members of the Commons for starters, Brown has the charisma of a lamppost. > > The Tories have to get back Brexit Party voters, Boris will do so
As ever, you seem unable to engage with the point.
> @malcolmg said: > Putting the latest Yougov Euro elections poll figures into Electoral Calculus gives a Brexit Party landslide if repeated under FPTP and Tory wipeout. > > > > The SNP would be the official opposition with Labour collapsing to third > > > > > > https://twitter.com/Drastelne/status/1131102003017539584 > > > > Can I just point out the Euros and Westminster elections are different entities. > > BP will be a flash in the pan, Nigel will struggle to get enough roasters to contest seats to start with and it will end with them in the dustbin alongside Theresa. People are not stupid enough to give that lot any real power, troughing in Brussels will be their high watermark.
I agree. Divisive, grubby little nationalists should never be let near any real power!!
Can I just point out the Euros and Westminster elections are different entities.
BP will be a flash in the pan, Nigel will struggle to get enough roasters to contest seats to start with and it will end with them in the dustbin alongside Theresa. People are not stupid enough to give that lot any real power, troughing in Brussels will be their high watermark.
The SNP have shown it is possible malc - wave enough flegs and it doesn’t matter if your roasters are thieves, territorist sympathisers and gropers.
> @NickPalmer said: > > @TheJezziah said: > > Not a fan of all the pictures chosen of May on the front pages, no need for it and it comes across as bullying. > > > > I wonder how good some of those involved in choosing the picture would look in the same situation. > > That's right. EVERYONE can look bad if you photograph them often enough for long enough and pick the worst pictures. And I wonder if they'd do it if the PM was a man.
Yes, the press would do it to a man. They did it to Gordon Brown, John Major and Neil Kinnock. That is why Tony Blair used to wander about with a fixed, rictus grin: so that he would always be smiling in press photographs, at least until he realised it made him look bloody stupid on television (ditto the power walk).
> @Benpointer said: > https://twitter.com/bbcnews/status/1130944400660606978 > > > > > @rottenborough said: > > > Blimey they have been reading PB this afternoon: > > > > > > https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1130944175078301697 > > > > > > The Telegraph really has gone down hill. Lacks class. > > Finding unflattering photos to lead with is pretty cheap and classless. > > Indeed. To think this was once a great newspaper of state. > > What is or was a "newspaper of state"? > > Pravda > > The Torygraph was merely the unofficial newspaper of the Conservative party.
It is now the UKIPograph, or more recently the BrexitPartyograph. It is not a proper Conservative newspaper anymore
Is there a site somewhere that posts overall vote share by party for each council area that took part on May 2nd. It would be good to compare those with results on Sunday
> @TheJezziah said: > The only way Labour could have beaten the BP is if they had properly backed a second vote . Corbyn owns this whole sorry mess. A vote for Labour at the moment is a vote for Brexit. Many normal Labour voters like myself have had enough . > > I feel like you might be having too much fun going crazy in the meantime too stop but I expect Labour conference will pass a motion for a referendum on any deal although the leadership already seems to be moving in that direction anyway. > > Unless you expect Labour to sign up to a deal before conference then the party will be whipping for a referendum on anything else. I'm not saying you should be happy with Labour or not angry but practically unless Mays Deal somehow goes though I can't see how that deal will happen before conference. This isn't saying you should vote for Labour in the Euros (although I would prefer that) but you shouldn't worry too much about the party as a whole passing Brexit. > > Some small number of MPs doing it is always a possibility but the Tories will have to come together on a deal for that to happen. Which also seems unlikely. > > Maybe I am wrong but to me it looks like it is either a general election, a referendum or a Tory leader comes in and stays in power long enough to force no deal. > > In the general election Labour would end up backing a referendum on any deal and they would try to stop no deal. > > All roads seem to lead to Labour backing a referendum unless we are forced out with no deal by a Tory leader. > > Maybe I'm wrong...
But many Labour sympathisers like myself simply don't trust Corbyn and Milne on the issue. No way our household will be voting Labour on Thursday either
> @DecrepitJohnL said: > > @NickPalmer said: > > > @TheJezziah said: > > > Not a fan of all the pictures chosen of May on the front pages, no need for it and it comes across as bullying. > > > > > > I wonder how good some of those involved in choosing the picture would look in the same situation. > > > > That's right. EVERYONE can look bad if you photograph them often enough for long enough and pick the worst pictures. And I wonder if they'd do it if the PM was a man. > > Yes, the press would do it to a man. They did it to Gordon Brown, John Major and Neil Kinnock. That is why Tony Blair used to wander about with a fixed, rictus grin: so that he would always be smiling in press photographs, at least until he realised it made him look bloody stupid on television (ditto the power walk).
And of course Ed Milliband and his sarnie.
Though the press only kicks someone when they are down.
> @Nigel_Foremain said: > > @malcolmg said: > > Putting the latest Yougov Euro elections poll figures into Electoral Calculus gives a Brexit Party landslide if repeated under FPTP and Tory wipeout. > > > > > > > > The SNP would be the official opposition with Labour collapsing to third > > > > > > > > > > > > https://twitter.com/Drastelne/status/1131102003017539584 > > > > > > > > Can I just point out the Euros and Westminster elections are different entities. > > > > BP will be a flash in the pan, Nigel will struggle to get enough roasters to contest seats to start with and it will end with them in the dustbin alongside Theresa. People are not stupid enough to give that lot any real power, troughing in Brussels will be their high watermark. > > I agree. Divisive, grubby little nationalists should never be let near any real power!!
> The Telegraph really has gone down hill. Lacks class.
>
> Finding unflattering photos to lead with is pretty cheap and classless.
>
> Indeed. To think this was once a great newspaper of state.
>
> What is or was a "newspaper of state"?
>
> Pravda
>
> The Torygraph was merely the unofficial newspaper of the Conservative party.
It is now the UKIPograph, or more recently the BrexitPartyograph. It is not a proper Conservative newspaper anymore
A long time since it’s been a proper newspaper.
Frankly, May should go this morning. Just resign with immediate effect. Tell her very many critics that they can deal with it using all the wonderful plans they have come up with - oh they haven’t got any, you say, well not my problem any more - leave the keys to No 10 in the door and head for the airport.
God knows who would be in charge but there again we have not had a functioning government in any meaningful sense of the word for some time now. The Cabinet Secretary will have plans for the immediate disappearance of a PM so they can be used.
I don’t know why she tortures herself with this. Nothing she can do now will salvage matters. Her reputation is shot but may look better once we’ve seen the mess her successors will likely make of things.
Plus it would be fun for the rest of us to see the look of horror on the faces of putative successors as they realise they will actually have to do some real work rather than simply snipe or bluster from the sidelines.
> @TGOHF said: > Putting the latest Yougov Euro elections poll figures into Electoral Calculus gives a Brexit Party landslide if repeated under FPTP and Tory wipeout. > > > > The SNP would be the official opposition with Labour collapsing to third > > > > > > https://twitter.com/Drastelne/status/1131102003017539584 > > > > Can I just point out the Euros and Westminster elections are different entities. > > BP will be a flash in the pan, Nigel will struggle to get enough roasters to contest seats to start with and it will end with them in the dustbin alongside Theresa. People are not stupid enough to give that lot any real power, troughing in Brussels will be their high watermark. > > The SNP have shown it is possible malc - wave enough flegs and it doesn’t matter if your roasters are thieves, territorist sympathisers and gropers.
But the Tories are tanking which rather refutes your observation. Perhaps they didn't wave enough flags.
> @TGOHF said: > I note finished goods factory stocks are at their highest level since 2009. Orders aren’t. > > The steel plant is not going to be the only casualty of Brexit. > Bigger risk factor is the messing about for 3 years and no end in sight. > Bumbling on will cost us. Thanks Mrs May and the civil service.
I thought the civil service took their orders from the elected government. Those who were not prepared to do so were forced out. So you can give your thanks 100% to this shambolic Conservative Government,
> > Not a fan of all the pictures chosen of May on the front pages, no need for it and it comes across as bullying.
> >
> > I wonder how good some of those involved in choosing the picture would look in the same situation.
>
> That's right. EVERYONE can look bad if you photograph them often enough for long enough and pick the worst pictures. And I wonder if they'd do it if the PM was a man.
Yes, the press would do it to a man. They did it to Gordon Brown, John Major and Neil Kinnock. That is why Tony Blair used to wander about with a fixed, rictus grin: so that he would always be smiling in press photographs, at least until he realised it made him look bloody stupid on television (ditto the power walk).
> Putting the latest Yougov Euro elections poll figures into Electoral Calculus gives a Brexit Party landslide if repeated under FPTP and Tory wipeout.
>
>
>
> The SNP would be the official opposition with Labour collapsing to third
> Can I just point out the Euros and Westminster elections are different entities.
>
> BP will be a flash in the pan, Nigel will struggle to get enough roasters to contest seats to start with and it will end with them in the dustbin alongside Theresa. People are not stupid enough to give that lot any real power, troughing in Brussels will be their high watermark.
I agree. Divisive, grubby little nationalists should never be let near any real power!!
Cretins should not be allowed near keyboards without an adult to assist.
Comments
> The fact he's trying to get the rules changed tells you he thinks he's doomed.
>
> The Con party membership will implode if Boris is not on the final 2 (or 4).
>
> So be it.
>
> Changing the rules is for losers, why won't Boris respect democracy instead of trying to rig it?
>
> Surely the people rigging democracy would be those making sure the likely choice of the electorate wasn’t on the ballot?
>
> The rules for both main parties to ensure any leader has the support of sufficient numbers of MPs are there for a good reason. It's pathetic that people who would fall foul of the rule blame their weakness among MPs as the system being unfair, it is not meant to be a completely democratic exercise. Why even have MP nominations at that point, the Tory membership would probably elect Farage as their leader if they could.
>
> It's like when people compare voting again in parliament with rerunning a referendum - there may be good arguments for the option people want, but the two situations are not actually comparable in scope or nature, and nor is equating the rules for leadership of a political party in a system which requires, in practice though not law, that said leader commands the confidence and support of the parliamentary party, with a presidential style election.
>
> And moaning about the rules is a lame route to go down. If support of MPs is a requirement, and it is for good reason, then it is the job of the candidates to prove themselves worthy by overcoming that hurdle, not seek to bypass it because they think they cannot do that. That would instill confidence in their ability to lead MPs if they won, would it?
>
> > @isam said:
>
> >
>
> > Surely the people rigging democracy would be those making sure the likely choice of the electorate wasn’t on the ballot?
>
>
>
> You either let all ice.
>
> Yet Remain should be on a second referendum ballot despite being defeated
>
> If there is one, many options should be on it, including no deal. It won't, but it should.@HYUFD - Nandy and Kyle have said they won’t support it. Which 100 Labour MPs do you think will?
>
> Nandy is proving to be very duplicitous. Makes noises that she might do thus it that, does not want this or that, but always on the key votes finds a reason to vote in a way which is leading toward remain.
Nandy has not got a clue
> The only way Labour could have beaten the BP is if they had properly backed a second vote . Corbyn owns this whole sorry mess. A vote for Labour at the moment is a vote for Brexit. Many normal Labour voters like myself have had enough .
>
> I feel like you might be having too much fun going crazy in the meantime too stop but I expect Labour conference will pass a motion for a referendum on any deal although the leadership already seems to be moving in that direction anyway.
>
> Unless you expect Labour to sign up to a deal before conference then the party will be whipping for a referendum on anything else. I'm not saying you should be happy with Labour or not angry but practically unless Mays Deal somehow goes though I can't see how that deal will happen before conference. This isn't saying you should vote for Labour in the Euros (although I would prefer that) but you shouldn't worry too much about the party as a whole passing Brexit.
>
> Some small number of MPs doing it is always a possibility but the Tories will have to come together on a deal for that to happen. Which also seems unlikely.
>
> Maybe I am wrong but to me it looks like it is either a general election, a referendum or a Tory leader comes in and stays in power long enough to force no deal.
>
> In the general election Labour would end up backing a referendum on any deal and they would try to stop no deal.
>
> All roads seem to lead to Labour backing a referendum unless we are forced out with no deal by a Tory leader.
>
> Maybe I'm wrong...
You are wrong, May has now proposed a referendum vote before Corbyn
> The only way Labour could have beaten the BP is if they had properly backed a second vote . Corbyn owns this whole sorry mess. A vote for Labour at the moment is a vote for Brexit. Many normal Labour voters like myself have had enough .
>
> I feel like you might be having too much fun going crazy in the meantime too stop but I expect Labour conference will pass a motion for a referendum on any deal although the leadership already seems to be moving in that direction anyway.
>
> Unless you expect Labour to sign up to a deal before conference then the party will be whipping for a referendum on anything else. I'm not saying you should be happy with Labour or not angry but practically unless Mays Deal somehow goes though I can't see how that deal will happen before conference. This isn't saying you should vote for Labour in the Euros (although I would prefer that) but you shouldn't worry too much about the party as a whole passing Brexit.
>
> Some small number of MPs doing it is always a possibility but the Tories will have to come together on a deal for that to happen. Which also seems unlikely.
>
> Maybe I am wrong but to me it looks like it is either a general election, a referendum or a Tory leader comes in and stays in power long enough to force no deal.
>
> In the general election Labour would end up backing a referendum on any deal and they would try to stop no deal.
>
> All roads seem to lead to Labour backing a referendum unless we are forced out with no deal by a Tory leader.
>
> Maybe I'm wrong...
Too late, Jezz, too late.
> https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1131091338584363008
Let us examine this.
The government says it is all the opposition's fault. The Conservatives say it is all Labour's fault. Am I missing anything before I go and lie down from the shock?
That's fine, and many party members will have voted for someone else in their time, but I dont understand the complaint of the party responding when you admit you no longer support them.
Major was fine with members openly saying they were voting for someone else when he was PM was he?
Starmer's wibbled about having a referendum and now opposes the chance to vote for one. Seems rather peculiar.
> Mr. Isam, it is ridiculous that they backed triggering Article 50 but won't actually choose any of the options.
>
> There's no deal, May's deal, and remaining after all.
>
> A lot of MPs are happy to rule out whatever they think unacceptable but unwilling to pick between the other two. It's all very well Hammond bleating about no deal, but given it seems impossible for May's deal to pass that means the only outcome he ought to support is remaining.
>
> Does he? No.
>
> Will the Commons actually vote for May's deal so they can get the referendum a majority seems to want? No.
>
> Will they endorse no deal? No.
>
> I'm not a May fan. She's a terrible PM. But the Commons collectively is scarcely any better. They wrested control away from May and have used it to to decide precisely nothing.
If as is likely Macron vetoes further extension in October then the Commons will finally be forced to decide Revoke or No Deal, there being no further time for a new Deal or EUref2.
Only voting for the WA now then another referendum after offers the chance to avoid that, otherwise MPs will thoroughly deserve the awful choice they would then face
> The only way Labour could have beaten the BP is if they had properly backed a second vote . Corbyn owns this whole sorry mess. A vote for Labour at the moment is a vote for Brexit. Many normal Labour voters like myself have had enough .
>
> I feel like you might be having too much fun going crazy in the meantime too stop but I expect Labour conference will pass a motion for a referendum on any deal although the leadership already seems to be moving in that direction anyway.
>
> Unless you expect Labour to sign up to a deal before conference then the party will be whipping for a referendum on anything else. I'm not saying you should be happy with Labour or not angry but practically unless Mays Deal somehow goes though I can't see how that deal will happen before conference. This isn't saying you should vote for Labour in the Euros (although I would prefer that) but you shouldn't worry too much about the party as a whole passing Brexit.
>
> Some small number of MPs doing it is always a possibility but the Tories will have to come together on a deal for that to happen. Which also seems unlikely.
>
> Maybe I am wrong but to me it looks like it is either a general election, a referendum or a Tory leader comes in and stays in power long enough to force no deal.
>
> In the general election Labour would end up backing a referendum on any deal and they would try to stop no deal.
>
> All roads seem to lead to Labour backing a referendum unless we are forced out with no deal by a Tory leader.
>
> Maybe I'm wrong...
I agree with your post that Labour will eventually have to support a second EU ref on any deal . But in fence sitting now they’re giving a victory to the hate monger Farage . And although most Labour voters might go back to them once people start voting for other parties they find it easier again .
> > @TheJezziah said:
> > The only way Labour could have beaten the BP is if they had properly backed a second vote . Corbyn owns this whole sorry mess. A vote for Labour at the moment is a vote for Brexit. Many normal Labour voters like myself have had enough .
> >
> > I feel like you might be having too much fun going crazy in the meantime too stop but I expect Labour conference will pass a motion for a referendum on any deal although the leadership already seems to be moving in that direction anyway.
> >
> > Unless you expect Labour to sign up to a deal before conference then the party will be whipping for a referendum on anything else. I'm not saying you should be happy with Labour or not angry but practically unless Mays Deal somehow goes though I can't see how that deal will happen before conference. This isn't saying you should vote for Labour in the Euros (although I would prefer that) but you shouldn't worry too much about the party as a whole passing Brexit.
> >
> > Some small number of MPs doing it is always a possibility but the Tories will have to come together on a deal for that to happen. Which also seems unlikely.
> >
> > Maybe I am wrong but to me it looks like it is either a general election, a referendum or a Tory leader comes in and stays in power long enough to force no deal.
> >
> > In the general election Labour would end up backing a referendum on any deal and they would try to stop no deal.
> >
> > All roads seem to lead to Labour backing a referendum unless we are forced out with no deal by a Tory leader.
> >
> > Maybe I'm wrong...
>
> You are wrong, May has now proposed a referendum vote before Corbyn
She hasn't proposed a referendum vote. She has pointed out that those that who want one can add an amendment to that effect, ONCE they have passed the second reading. They could do that anyway.
It wasn't a concession. It didn't convince any remainers and pissed off leavers. It rebounded on her.
It would have been very different if she had included a second referendum in the bill itself, and whipped support for it. But her Cabinet wouldn't support that. She tried her best, bless her.
There is a reason second referendum supporting MPs aren't supporting May on this
@Peter_the_Punter
That wasn't a plea to vote Labour, more a don't worry too much too Nico who seems to get very annoyed at Labour's position.
> Farage vs Cable... could be describing an uncomfortable and lengthy visit to the Gents for Nigel
What the actual fuck?
Rationale - I want to leave (not LD) but want a deal (not TBP) and dislike Farage (not TBP). Abstaining is wrong and I didn’t like any of the minor parties. I can’t vote for an anti-Semite/fellow traveller which rules out Labour.
Tories have done nothing to earn my vote. But I want to signal to leave with a deal & they are going to get beaten up anyway so better to try and bolster that effort.
> The probability that Boris would turn out to be another Brown - having spent his entire life since childhood wanting the job, he won’t have a clue what to do with it - seems high.
>
> Just hope the Tory MPs haven’t lost their senses entirely. Although evidence isn’t encouraging right now.
Boris is nothing like Brown, he is one of the most charismatic members of the Commons for starters, Brown has the charisma of a lamppost.
The Tories have to get back Brexit Party voters, Boris will do so
What no-one saw was how much that would revive the LibDems. And that looks like a very significant blunder.
Corbyn has had a strategy of ignoring the 40%+ of non-Corbynite Labour members/voters because they had nowhere else to go.
He has inadvertently created somewhere for them to go. A massive own goal.
> > @HYUFD said:
> > > @GIN1138 said:
> > > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > Good move today I think by May
> > >
> > > LOL! She's being subjected to the most brutal set of newspaper headlines we've seen for any PM since El Gord, her parliamentary party is in total uproar, her party in the country is in meltdown and heading for its worst defeat in its 200 year history... And there's no sign anyone in the Labour party has shifted their position in favour of her deal anyway...
> > >
> > > And you think Theresa's playing a blinder!!!
> > >
> > > *NURSE*
> >
> > I do, her position of vote for her Deal then vote for a referendum gives Labour MPs from Leave seats a get out clause, they can vote for Brexit and the Deal to appease their constituents and reduce the BP threat then vote for a referendum to appease their membership.
> >
>
> This is a leaver-tory projecting his/her opinion onto Labour MPs. It is certainly not how a Labour MP is going to think.
>
It is when they see the Brexit Party overwhelmingly winning their local authority area on Sunday and panic about losing their seat
It’s really been just that pollster who has found such a low rating .
> > @kle4 said:
> > The fact he's trying to get the rules changed tells you he thinks he's doomed.
> >
> > The Con party membership will implode if Boris is not on the final 2 (or 4).
> >
> > So be it.
> >
> > Changing the rules is for losers, why won't Boris respect democracy instead of trying to rig it?
> >
> > Surely the people rigging democracy would be those making sure the likely choice of the electorate wasn’t on the ballot?
> >
> > The rules for both main parties to ensure any leader has the support of sufficient numbers of MPs are there for a good reason. It's pathetic that people who would fall foul of the rule blame their weakness among MPs as the system being unfair, it is not meant to be a completely democratic exercise. Why even have MP nominations at that point, the Tory membership would probably elect Farage as their leader if they could.
> >
> > It's like when people compare voting again in parliament with rerunning a referendum - there may be good arguments for the option people want, but the two situations are not actually comparable in scope or nature, and nor is equating the rules for leadership of a political party in a system which requires, in practice though not law, that said leader commands the confidence and support of the parliamentary party, with a presidential style election.
> >
> > And moaning about the rules is a lame route to go down. If support of MPs is a requirement, and it is for good reason, then it is the job of the candidates to prove themselves worthy by overcoming that hurdle, not seek to bypass it because they think they cannot do that. That would instill confidence in their ability to lead MPs if they won, would it?
> >
> > > @isam said:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Surely the people rigging democracy would be those making sure the likely choice of the electorate wasn’t on the ballot?
> >
> >
> >
> > You either let all ice.
> >
> > Yet Remain should be on a second referendum ballot despite being defeated
> >
> > If there is one, many options should be on it, including no deal. It won't, but it should.@HYUFD - Nandy and Kyle have said they won’t support it. Which 100 Labour MPs do you think will?
> >
> > Nandy is proving to be very duplicitous. Makes noises that she might do thus it that, does not want this or that, but always on the key votes finds a reason to vote in a way which is leading toward remain.
>
> Nandy has not got a clue
Nandy is shrewd - a good political operator. She looks innocent, even naive. She isn't.
> @HYUFD
>
> There is a reason second referendum supporting MPs aren't supporting May on this
>
> @Peter_the_Punter
>
> That wasn't a plea to vote Labour, more a don't worry too much too Nico who seems to get very annoyed at Labour's position.
Noted with thanks, Jezz.
Been a Labour supporter for fifty years. Am perfectly used to some of its extraordinary positions!
> Chris Deerin has apiece in the New Statesman about how a Boris leadership victory would halt the Ruth Davidson project in its tracks.
>
> https://twitter.com/chrisdeerin/status/1130837414908432384
Given the Brexit Party are polling second in Scotland the Ruth Davidson project is no longer enough
> > @eristdoof said:
> > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > @GIN1138 said:
> > > > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > > Good move today I think by May
> > > >
> > > > LOL! She's being subjected to the most brutal set of newspaper headlines we've seen for any PM since El Gord, her parliamentary party is in total uproar, her party in the country is in meltdown and heading for its worst defeat in its 200 year history... And there's no sign anyone in the Labour party has shifted their position in favour of her deal anyway...
> > > >
> > > > And you think Theresa's playing a blinder!!!
> > > >
> > > > *NURSE*
> > >
> > > I do, her position of vote for her Deal then vote for a referendum gives Labour MPs from Leave seats a get out clause, they can vote for Brexit and the Deal to appease their constituents and reduce the BP threat then vote for a referendum to appease their membership.
> > >
> >
> > This is a leaver-tory projecting his/her opinion onto Labour MPs. It is certainly not how a Labour MP is going to think.
> >
>
> It is when they see the Brexit Party overwhelmingly winning their local authority area on Sunday and panic about losing their seat
Except Labour are losing just 13% of their 2017 vote to the Brexit Party . Of course I expect the media to spin the BP destroying both the big parties but it’s Remainers who are deserting the party not Leavers .
> El
> Oh
> El
>
> https://twitter.com/ScotExpress/status/1130976703881404417
Unsurprising. Davidson is even less principled than Johnson.
> El
> Oh
> El
>
> https://twitter.com/ScotExpress/status/1130976703881404417
Colonel Gadafty has flip flopped? I can hardly believe it!
The SNP would be the official opposition with Labour collapsing to third
https://twitter.com/Drastelne/status/1131102003017539584?s=20
Are a raft of polls expected?
Is there a cut-off or can polls still be published tomorrow while the polling stations are open?
Do we get exit polls at 10pm from the Euros?
There is no move they can make that doesn't piss off one of those two blocks.
Remain voter as well I assume.
@nico67
If it is any consolation the Brexit Party doing well will probably do a lot more harm to the Conservatives in time, not ideal but silver linings.
> Mr. JohnL, doesn't necessarily make it false, though.
>
> Starmer's wibbled about having a referendum and now opposes the chance to vote for one. Seems rather peculiar.
May is offering a vote on a referendum only after her motion has passed. This is a pig in a poke and Labour are rightly rejecting it.
There needs to be a vote on an amendment for a referendum prior to the main vote. If the amendment passes Labour would likely support the deal. However the ERG and their fellow travellers would explode.
> > @IanB2 said:
> > The probability that Boris would turn out to be another Brown - having spent his entire life since childhood wanting the job, he won’t have a clue what to do with it - seems high.
> >
> > Just hope the Tory MPs haven’t lost their senses entirely. Although evidence isn’t encouraging right now.
>
> Boris is nothing like Brown, he is one of the most charismatic members of the Commons for starters, Brown has the charisma of a lamppost.
>
> The Tories have to get back Brexit Party voters, Boris will do so
Boris would be more like Presidents Trump, GW Bush or Reagan. The joking human face in front of the hard men running affairs behind the scenes. Like when he was Mayor and denied his regime's plans for Fire Brigade cuts.
> > @HYUFD said:
> > > @eristdoof said:
> > > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > > @GIN1138 said:
> > > > > > @HYUFD said:
> > > > > > Good move today I think by May
> > > > >
> > > > > LOL! She's being subjected to the most brutal set of newspaper headlines we've seen for any PM since El Gord, her parliamentary party is in total uproar, her party in the country is in meltdown and heading for its worst defeat in its 200 year history... And there's no sign anyone in the Labour party has shifted their position in favour of her deal anyway...
> > > > >
> > > > > And you think Theresa's playing a blinder!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > *NURSE*
> > > >
> > > > I do, her position of vote for her Deal then vote for a referendum gives Labour MPs from Leave seats a get out clause, they can vote for Brexit and the Deal to appease their constituents and reduce the BP threat then vote for a referendum to appease their membership.
> > > >
> > >
> > > This is a leaver-tory projecting his/her opinion onto Labour MPs. It is certainly not how a Labour MP is going to think.
> > >
> >
> > It is when they see the Brexit Party overwhelmingly winning their local authority area on Sunday and panic about losing their seat
>
> Except Labour are losing just 13% of their 2017 vote to the Brexit Party . Of course I expect the media to spin the BP destroying both the big parties but it’s Remainers who are deserting the party not Leavers .
Not in Leave seats which would fall to the Brexit Party if those 13% join most Tories in voting Brexit Party
> Putting the latest Yougov Euro elections poll figures into Electoral Calculus gives a Brexit Party landslide if repeated under FPTP and Tory wipeout.
>
> The SNP would be the official opposition with Labour collapsing to third
>
>
> https://twitter.com/Drastelne/status/1131102003017539584?s=20
Lol, SNP as HM Opposition
So it would be par for the course if she flip flopped on that.
> With the main parties redundant for tomorrow, i shall be lending my vote to the yellow peril...
>
>
>
> that it should come to this...
>
> I considered TBP but ended up voting Tory (wasted in London)
>
> Rationale - I want to leave (not LD) but want a deal (not TBP) and dislike Farage (not TBP). Abstaining is wrong and I didn’t like any of the minor parties. I can’t vote for an anti-Semite/fellow traveller which rules out Labour.
>
> Tories have done nothing to earn my vote. But I want to signal to leave with a deal & they are going to get beaten up anyway so better to try and bolster that effort.
That's actually impeccable logic, Charles. Do try to keep it up, old chap.
> Jez blew it. Competing with Farage for Brexit votes WHILST trying to hold on to Remain votes was an 'interesting' strategy, especially during an EU election.
>
> What no-one saw was how much that would revive the LibDems. And that looks like a very significant blunder.
>
> Corbyn has had a strategy of ignoring the 40%+ of non-Corbynite Labour members/voters because they had nowhere else to go.
>
> He has inadvertently created somewhere for them to go. A massive own goal.
Exactly . He’s basically revitalized the Lib Dems . Labour bleating about the Lib Dems broken student pledge is old news now . People are moving on. Corbyn has to realize that for some Labour voters staying in the EU is the reddest of red lines .
By smashing everything to bits and then erm, erm, erm, well Nigel and Aaron will run things.
> > @HYUFD said:
> > > @kle4 said:
> > > The fact he's trying to get the rules changed tells you he thinks he's doomed.
> > >
> > > The Con party membership will implode if Boris is not on the final 2 (or 4).
> > >
> > > So be it.
> > >
> > > Changing the rules is for losers, why won't Boris respect democracy instead of trying to rig it?
> > >
> > > Surely the people rigging democracy would be those making sure the likely choice of the electorate wasn’t on the ballot?
> > >
> > > The rules for both main parties to ensure any leader has the support of sufficient numbers of MPs are there for a good reason. It's pathetic that people who would fall foul of the rule blame their weakness among MPs as the system being unfair, it is not meant to be a completely democratic exercise. Why even have MP nominations at that point, the Tory membership would probably elect Farage as their leader if they could.
> > >
> > > It's like when people compare voting again in parliament with rerunning a referendum - there may be good arguments for the option people want, but the two situations are not actually comparable in scope or nature, and nor is equating the rules for leadership of a political party in a system which requires, in practice though not law, that said leader commands the confidence and support of the parliamentary party, with a presidential style election.
> > >
> > > And moaning about the rules is a lame route to go down. If support of MPs is a requirement, and it is for good reason, then it is the job of the candidates to prove themselves worthy by overcoming that hurdle, not seek to bypass it because they think they cannot do that. That would instill confidence in their ability to lead MPs if they won, would it?
> > >
> > > > @isam said:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Surely the people rigging democracy would be those making sure the likely choice of the electorate wasn’t on the ballot?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You either let all ice.
> > >
> > > Yet Remain should be on a second referendum ballot despite being defeated
> > >
> > > If there is one, many options should be on it, including no deal. It won't, but it should.@HYUFD - Nandy and Kyle have said they won’t support it. Which 100 Labour MPs do you think will?
> > >
> > > Nandy is proving to be very duplicitous. Makes noises that she might do thus it that, does not want this or that, but always on the key votes finds a reason to vote in a way which is leading toward remain.
> >
> > Nandy has not got a clue
>
> Nandy is shrewd - a good political operator. She looks innocent, even naive. She isn't.
So shrewd at the moment she is likely to lose her seat to the Brexit Party unless she votes for Brexit soon
> > @IanB2 said:
>
> > The probability that Boris would turn out to be another Brown - having spent his entire life since childhood wanting the job, he won’t have a clue what to do with it - seems high.
>
> >
>
> > Just hope the Tory MPs haven’t lost their senses entirely. Although evidence isn’t encouraging right now.
>
>
>
> Boris is nothing like Brown, he is one of the most charismatic members of the Commons for starters, Brown has the charisma of a lamppost.
>
>
>
> The Tories have to get back Brexit Party voters, Boris will do so
>
> The guy who voted for the deal to surrender to the EU?
Still Brexit
The former is a big but old issue; the latter is massive and current.
> El
> Oh
> El
>
> https://twitter.com/ScotExpress/status/1130976703881404417
>
>
>
> How many 360 degree turns can this useless chancer make.
Don't 360 degree turns leave you facing the same way you started?
> > @TheJezziah said:
>
> > @HYUFD
>
> >
>
> > There is a reason second referendum supporting MPs aren't supporting May on this
>
> >
>
> > @Peter_the_Punter
>
> >
>
> > That wasn't a plea to vote Labour, more a don't worry too much too Nico who seems to get very annoyed at Labour's position.
>
>
>
> Noted with thanks, Jezz.
>
>
>
> Been a Labour supporter for fifty years. Am perfectly used to some of its extraordinary positions!
>
> Ahh wasn't 100% on you, not enough angry posting, always easy to identify people's position when they put it across strongly. Pretty sure you weren't a Tory but a bit vague where.
>
> Remain voter as well I assume.
>
> @nico67
>
> If it is any consolation the Brexit Party doing well will probably do a lot more harm to the Conservatives in time, not ideal but silver linings.
That sounds like a compliment, Jezz!
Yes, I'm a Remainer alright, in fact one of the Site's more extreme Europhiles. I'm a little more diffident about Labour, especially with Jeremy and His Gang in charge. Voted LD in the Euros, by post a while back.
Atb
PtP
> Will be interesting to see whether today’s other polling supports the Labour YouGov .
>
>
>
> It’s really been just that pollster who has found such a low rating .
>
> A few polling questions:
> Are a raft of polls expected?
> Is there a cut-off or can polls still be published tomorrow while the polling stations are open?
> Do we get exit polls at 10pm from the Euros?
I think the law is you can publish the poll on Thursday with the fieldwork conducted before then but you can’t poll on that day itself and release the results until the polls have closed.
However for the Euros there won’t be exit polls before Sunday night . This could bias voting in other countries and isn’t allowed under EU law.
> > @malcolmg said:
> > El
> > Oh
> > El
> >
> > https://twitter.com/ScotExpress/status/1130976703881404417
> >
> >
> >
> > How many 360 degree turns can this useless chancer make.
>
> Don't 360 degree turns leave you facing the same way you started?
Got me humming that old Dead or Alive hit. Now, where’s my eyepatch... ?
The Torygraph was merely the unofficial newspaper of the Conservative party.
> > @kle4 said:
> > > @IanB2 said:
> >
> > > The probability that Boris would turn out to be another Brown - having spent his entire life since childhood wanting the job, he won’t have a clue what to do with it - seems high.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Just hope the Tory MPs haven’t lost their senses entirely. Although evidence isn’t encouraging right now.
> >
> >
> >
> > Boris is nothing like Brown, he is one of the most charismatic members of the Commons for starters, Brown has the charisma of a lamppost.
> >
> >
> >
> > The Tories have to get back Brexit Party voters, Boris will do so
> >
> > The guy who voted for the deal to surrender to the EU?
>
> Still Brexit
Tell that to that woman who attacked David Davies.
> > @Alistair said:
>
> > Chris Deerin has apiece in the New Statesman about how a Boris leadership victory would halt the Ruth Davidson project in its tracks.
>
> >
>
> > https://twitter.com/chrisdeerin/status/1130837414908432384
>
>
>
>
>
> Given the Brexit Party are polling second in Scotland the Ruth Davidson project is no longer enough
>
> Boris could lead to a formal separation of the Scottish party though. This has been mooted in the past. Even a new name.
It's been mooted and always disappears like snow off a dyke. With the hardening of the Unionist/dependency psychology which deplores any kind of separation, I think it's more unlikely than ever unless the Tory party is irrevocably destroyed.
> > @philiph said:
> > > @malcolmg said:
> > > El
> > > Oh
> > > El
> > >
> > > https://twitter.com/ScotExpress/status/1130976703881404417
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > How many 360 degree turns can this useless chancer make.
> >
> > Don't 360 degree turns leave you facing the same way you started?
>
> Got me humming that old Dead or Alive hit. Now, where’s my eyepatch... ?
So are you saying that Madonna and Pete Burns... Are the same person?
> So it looks like you're, partially at least, agreeing with me.
I may have misunderstood you.
> > @StuartDickson said:
> > > @philiph said:
> > > > @malcolmg said:
> > > > El
> > > > Oh
> > > > El
> > > >
> > > > https://twitter.com/ScotExpress/status/1130976703881404417
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How many 360 degree turns can this useless chancer make.
> > >
> > > Don't 360 degree turns leave you facing the same way you started?
> >
> > Got me humming that old Dead or Alive hit. Now, where’s my eyepatch... ?
>
> So are you saying that Madonna and Pete Burns... Are the same person?
Pete Burns would have done a better job at Eurovision.
> > @IanB2 said:
> > The probability that Boris would turn out to be another Brown - having spent his entire life since childhood wanting the job, he won’t have a clue what to do with it - seems high.
> >
> > Just hope the Tory MPs haven’t lost their senses entirely. Although evidence isn’t encouraging right now.
>
> Boris is nothing like Brown, he is one of the most charismatic members of the Commons for starters, Brown has the charisma of a lamppost.
>
> The Tories have to get back Brexit Party voters, Boris will do so
As ever, you seem unable to engage with the point.
> Putting the latest Yougov Euro elections poll figures into Electoral Calculus gives a Brexit Party landslide if repeated under FPTP and Tory wipeout.
>
>
>
> The SNP would be the official opposition with Labour collapsing to third
>
>
>
>
>
> https://twitter.com/Drastelne/status/1131102003017539584
>
>
>
> Can I just point out the Euros and Westminster elections are different entities.
>
> BP will be a flash in the pan, Nigel will struggle to get enough roasters to contest seats to start with and it will end with them in the dustbin alongside Theresa. People are not stupid enough to give that lot any real power, troughing in Brussels will be their high watermark.
I agree. Divisive, grubby little nationalists should never be let near any real power!!
> > @TheJezziah said:
> > Not a fan of all the pictures chosen of May on the front pages, no need for it and it comes across as bullying.
> >
> > I wonder how good some of those involved in choosing the picture would look in the same situation.
>
> That's right. EVERYONE can look bad if you photograph them often enough for long enough and pick the worst pictures. And I wonder if they'd do it if the PM was a man.
Yes, the press would do it to a man. They did it to Gordon Brown, John Major and Neil Kinnock. That is why Tony Blair used to wander about with a fixed, rictus grin: so that he would always be smiling in press photographs, at least until he realised it made him look bloody stupid on television (ditto the power walk).
> https://twitter.com/bbcnews/status/1130944400660606978
>
>
>
> > @rottenborough said:
>
> > Blimey they have been reading PB this afternoon:
>
> >
>
> > https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1130944175078301697
>
>
>
>
>
> The Telegraph really has gone down hill. Lacks class.
>
> Finding unflattering photos to lead with is pretty cheap and classless.
>
> Indeed. To think this was once a great newspaper of state.
>
> What is or was a "newspaper of state"?
>
> Pravda
>
> The Torygraph was merely the unofficial newspaper of the Conservative party.
It is now the UKIPograph, or more recently the BrexitPartyograph. It is not a proper Conservative newspaper anymore
> The only way Labour could have beaten the BP is if they had properly backed a second vote . Corbyn owns this whole sorry mess. A vote for Labour at the moment is a vote for Brexit. Many normal Labour voters like myself have had enough .
>
> I feel like you might be having too much fun going crazy in the meantime too stop but I expect Labour conference will pass a motion for a referendum on any deal although the leadership already seems to be moving in that direction anyway.
>
> Unless you expect Labour to sign up to a deal before conference then the party will be whipping for a referendum on anything else. I'm not saying you should be happy with Labour or not angry but practically unless Mays Deal somehow goes though I can't see how that deal will happen before conference. This isn't saying you should vote for Labour in the Euros (although I would prefer that) but you shouldn't worry too much about the party as a whole passing Brexit.
>
> Some small number of MPs doing it is always a possibility but the Tories will have to come together on a deal for that to happen. Which also seems unlikely.
>
> Maybe I am wrong but to me it looks like it is either a general election, a referendum or a Tory leader comes in and stays in power long enough to force no deal.
>
> In the general election Labour would end up backing a referendum on any deal and they would try to stop no deal.
>
> All roads seem to lead to Labour backing a referendum unless we are forced out with no deal by a Tory leader.
>
> Maybe I'm wrong...
But many Labour sympathisers like myself simply don't trust Corbyn and Milne on the issue. No way our household will be voting Labour on Thursday either
> > @NickPalmer said:
> > > @TheJezziah said:
> > > Not a fan of all the pictures chosen of May on the front pages, no need for it and it comes across as bullying.
> > >
> > > I wonder how good some of those involved in choosing the picture would look in the same situation.
> >
> > That's right. EVERYONE can look bad if you photograph them often enough for long enough and pick the worst pictures. And I wonder if they'd do it if the PM was a man.
>
> Yes, the press would do it to a man. They did it to Gordon Brown, John Major and Neil Kinnock. That is why Tony Blair used to wander about with a fixed, rictus grin: so that he would always be smiling in press photographs, at least until he realised it made him look bloody stupid on television (ditto the power walk).
And of course Ed Milliband and his sarnie.
Though the press only kicks someone when they are down.
> > @malcolmg said:
> > Putting the latest Yougov Euro elections poll figures into Electoral Calculus gives a Brexit Party landslide if repeated under FPTP and Tory wipeout.
> >
> >
> >
> > The SNP would be the official opposition with Labour collapsing to third
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > https://twitter.com/Drastelne/status/1131102003017539584
> >
> >
> >
> > Can I just point out the Euros and Westminster elections are different entities.
> >
> > BP will be a flash in the pan, Nigel will struggle to get enough roasters to contest seats to start with and it will end with them in the dustbin alongside Theresa. People are not stupid enough to give that lot any real power, troughing in Brussels will be their high watermark.
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> I agree. Divisive, grubby little nationalists should never be let near any real power!!
And nor should anti-semites.....
Leave seems to be down to two. Will remain coalesce around 2 or less or will vanity keep more in the game ?
Frankly, May should go this morning. Just resign with immediate effect. Tell her very many critics that they can deal with it using all the wonderful plans they have come up with - oh they haven’t got any, you say, well not my problem any more - leave the keys to No 10 in the door and head for the airport.
God knows who would be in charge but there again we have not had a functioning government in any meaningful sense of the word for some time now. The Cabinet Secretary will have plans for the immediate disappearance of a PM so they can be used.
I don’t know why she tortures herself with this. Nothing she can do now will salvage matters. Her reputation is shot but may look better once we’ve seen the mess her successors will likely make of things.
Plus it would be fun for the rest of us to see the look of horror on the faces of putative successors as they realise they will actually have to do some real work rather than simply snipe or bluster from the sidelines.
> Putting the latest Yougov Euro elections poll figures into Electoral Calculus gives a Brexit Party landslide if repeated under FPTP and Tory wipeout.
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> The SNP would be the official opposition with Labour collapsing to third
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> https://twitter.com/Drastelne/status/1131102003017539584
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> Can I just point out the Euros and Westminster elections are different entities.
>
> BP will be a flash in the pan, Nigel will struggle to get enough roasters to contest seats to start with and it will end with them in the dustbin alongside Theresa. People are not stupid enough to give that lot any real power, troughing in Brussels will be their high watermark.
>
> The SNP have shown it is possible malc - wave enough flegs and it doesn’t matter if your roasters are thieves, territorist sympathisers and gropers.
But the Tories are tanking which rather refutes your observation. Perhaps they didn't wave enough flags.
> I note finished goods factory stocks are at their highest level since 2009. Orders aren’t.
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> The steel plant is not going to be the only casualty of Brexit.
> Bigger risk factor is the messing about for 3 years and no end in sight.
> Bumbling on will cost us. Thanks Mrs May and the civil service.
I thought the civil service took their orders from the elected government. Those who were not prepared to do so were forced out. So you can give your thanks 100% to this shambolic Conservative Government,
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/Jeremy_Corbyn/12040829/Jeremy-Corbyn-courts-controversy-with-Enver-Hoxha-quote-at-Labour-Christmas-party.html