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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boost for Johnson in the first CON membership poll since TMay

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited May 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boost for Johnson in the first CON membership poll since TMay announced her exit timetable

? ? ? New YouGov poll of Tory members for @thetimes puts @BorisJohnson well out in front(Though he is also bottom choice for a sizeable group)

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739
    First unlike Boris in the last Tory leadership contest or the next one.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    God help us, it's going to be Boris isn't it? Christ. I know what we did to deserve it, and I'm still mad.
  • Torby_FennelTorby_Fennel Posts: 438
    If they elect him then they'll get what they deserve. Hard to put it any fairer than that.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,737
    > @kle4 said:
    > God help us, it's going to be Boris isn't it? Christ. I know what we did to deserve it, and I'm still mad.

    It's all HIGNFYs fault ;)
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,689
    > @CatMan said:
    > > @kle4 said:
    > > God help us, it's going to be Boris isn't it? Christ. I know what we did to deserve it, and I'm still mad.
    >
    > It's all HIGNFYs fault ;)

    ...which showed us precisely why he shouldn't be elected to anything
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Count the number of Leavers planning to stand for Conservative leader. These people should be supporting Boris Johnson. They aren’t. Ask yourself why.

    He’s going to have only a slim chance of making the last two in my opinion.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,206
    Keep laying the favourite.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Count the number of Leavers planning to stand for Conservative leader. These people should be supporting Boris Johnson. They aren’t. Ask yourself why.



    He’s going to have only a slim chance of making the last two in my opinion.

    I hope you are right Alastair
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    > @Charles said:
    > Count the number of Leavers planning to stand for Conservative leader. These people should be supporting Boris Johnson. They aren’t. Ask yourself why.
    >
    >
    >
    > He’s going to have only a slim chance of making the last two in my opinion.
    >
    > I hope you are right Alastair

    I’ve given my logic. It looks like the clearest of tells to me.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited May 2019

    > @Charles said:

    > Count the number of Leavers planning to stand for Conservative leader. These people should be supporting Boris Johnson. They aren’t. Ask yourself why.

    >

    >

    >

    > He’s going to have only a slim chance of making the last two in my opinion.

    >

    > I hope you are right Alastair



    I’ve given my logic. It looks like the clearest of tells to me.

    Mine wasn’t a logic based argument!

    I don’t bet. I do worry about our country

    (Edit: and I know why they aren’t backing him. But Tory MPs haven’t covered themselves in glory in recent months)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 22,662
    > @AlastairMeeks said:
    > > @Charles said:
    > > Count the number of Leavers planning to stand for Conservative leader. These people should be supporting Boris Johnson. They aren’t. Ask yourself why.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > He’s going to have only a slim chance of making the last two in my opinion.
    > >
    > > I hope you are right Alastair
    >
    > I’ve given my logic. It looks like the clearest of tells to me.

    Getting Raab is not much better. All the oomph of a wet sponge.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638
    .

    > @Charles said:

    > Count the number of Leavers planning to stand for Conservative leader. These people should be supporting Boris Johnson. They aren’t. Ask yourself why.

    >

    >

    >

    > He’s going to have only a slim chance of making the last two in my opinion.

    >

    > I hope you are right Alastair



    I’ve given my logic. It looks like the clearest of tells to me.

    It could be that refusing to allow their favourite onto the ballot after failing to implement Brexit really is the end for the Conservative Party. Why would Boris backing leavers stay?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    > @Charles said:
    > > @Charles said:
    >
    > > Count the number of Leavers planning to stand for Conservative leader. These people should be supporting Boris Johnson. They aren’t. Ask yourself why.
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > He’s going to have only a slim chance of making the last two in my opinion.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > I hope you are right Alastair
    >
    >
    >
    > I’ve given my logic. It looks like the clearest of tells to me.
    >
    > Mine wasn’t a logic based argument!
    >
    > I don’t bet. I do worry about our country

    The country is up shit creek anyway. Just choose your preferred inlet.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    > @AlastairMeeks said:

    > > @Charles said:

    > > Count the number of Leavers planning to stand for Conservative leader. These people should be supporting Boris Johnson. They aren’t. Ask yourself why.

    > >

    > >

    > >

    > > He’s going to have only a slim chance of making the last two in my opinion.

    > >

    > > I hope you are right Alastair

    >

    > I’ve given my logic. It looks like the clearest of tells to me.



    Getting Raab is not much better. All the oomph of a wet sponge.

    A wet sponge is fine.

    It’s the equivalent of making Carsten CEO of the LSE
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 6,258
    Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923
    > @Cyclefree said:
    > > @AlastairMeeks said:
    > > > @Charles said:
    > > > Count the number of Leavers planning to stand for Conservative leader. These people should be supporting Boris Johnson. They aren’t. Ask yourself why.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > He’s going to have only a slim chance of making the last two in my opinion.
    > > >
    > > > I hope you are right Alastair
    > >
    > > I’ve given my logic. It looks like the clearest of tells to me.
    >
    > Getting Raab is not much better. All the oomph of a wet sponge.

    James Cleverly has been gaining traction with some members I have spoken to
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    > @Charles said:

    > > @Charles said:

    >

    > > Count the number of Leavers planning to stand for Conservative leader. These people should be supporting Boris Johnson. They aren’t. Ask yourself why.

    >

    > >

    >

    > >

    >

    > >

    >

    > > He’s going to have only a slim chance of making the last two in my opinion.

    >

    > >

    >

    > > I hope you are right Alastair

    >

    >

    >

    > I’ve given my logic. It looks like the clearest of tells to me.

    >

    > Mine wasn’t a logic based argument!

    >

    > I don’t bet. I do worry about our country



    The country is up shit creek anyway. Just choose your preferred inlet.

    No it’s not.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,113

    Count the number of Leavers planning to stand for Conservative leader. These people should be supporting Boris Johnson. They aren’t. Ask yourself why.



    He’s going to have only a slim chance of making the last two in my opinion.

    I hope you’re right.

    Because I’m laying him hard like a 21 year from Doncaster on Ibiza Weekender.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923
    edited May 2019
    > @FrankBooth said:
    > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?

    To deliver Brexit, win back voters from the Brexit Party and beat Corbyn
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,983
    > @FrankBooth said:
    > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?

    Somebody better than the rest. He won London. Then won London again. And despite the protestations beforehand, it didn't fall into the Thames. Just ploughed on its serene way as one of the world's foremost multicultural cities.

    The rest are political pygmies beside him. Not saying I like him. Thems just the facts.....
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 6,258
    > @HYUFD said:
    > > @FrankBooth said:
    > > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?
    >
    > To deliver Brexit, win back voters from the Brexit Party and beat Corbyn

    Why is he the man to deliver Brexit? He's shown no administrative competence whatsoever. And why do they think he'll be such a vote winner. Boris has huge name recognition - if he was any good May would have been toast ages ago.

    Surely the other candidates could do those things?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739
    If Boris does make it to the final two I might vote for him.

    I think he's one of the few Tory MPs who would actually revoke Article 50.

    History has shown Boris will do what is best for him, and before the referendum he talked about voting Leave to get a better deal from the EU so we'd stay.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638
    edited May 2019

    > @FrankBooth said:

    > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?



    Somebody better than the rest. He won London. Then won London again. And despite the protestations beforehand, it didn't fall into the Thames. Just ploughed on its serene way as one of the world's foremost multicultural cities.



    The rest are political pygmies beside him. Not saying I like him. Thems just the facts.....

    If the MP's wont put him into the final two, he just joins BXP as leader and takes all the members who wanted to vote for him along for the ride..

    RIP Conservative Party
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739
    The fact Kit Malthouse is reported to be standing in the Tory leadership contest tells you Boris is doomed.

    His deputy Mayor of eight years is effectively saying he'd do a better job than Boris.

    There's a theme, those who work closely with Boris decide they'd make a better PM than Boris, cf Gove.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,113

    If Boris does make it to the final two I might vote for him.



    I think he's one of the few Tory MPs who would actually revoke Article 50.



    History has shown Boris will do what is best for him, and before the referendum he talked about voting Leave to get a better deal from the EU so we'd stay.

    Yep. He’s not to be trusted.

    And, to be fair, those closest to him never have.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,983
    > @isam said:
    > > @FrankBooth said:
    >
    > > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?
    >
    >
    >
    > Somebody better than the rest. He won London. Then won London again. And despite the protestations beforehand, it didn't fall into the Thames. Just ploughed on its serene way as one of the world's foremost multicultural cities.
    >
    >
    >
    > The rest are political pygmies beside him. Not saying I like him. Thems just the facts.....
    >
    > If the MP's wont put him into the final two, he just joins BXP as leader and takes all the members who wanted to vote for him along for the ride..
    >
    > RIP Conservative Party

    Agree. It will be suicidal for the MPs to try to be too clever by half and stop him getting to the members. Their best shot is to have 4 going forward to the members. Hope one of those outshines him.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,113

    > @FrankBooth said:

    > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?



    Somebody better than the rest. He won London. Then won London again. And despite the protestations beforehand, it didn't fall into the Thames. Just ploughed on its serene way as one of the world's foremost multicultural cities.



    The rest are political pygmies beside him. Not saying I like him. Thems just the facts.....

    It is hard to think of someone who matches him in charisma.

    Johnny Mercer is perhaps closest, but he seems to keep shooting himself in the foot and is too politically equivocal.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 6,258
    I wonder if the attempts to stop Farage from speaking might actually play into the Brexit Party's hands?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 22,662
    > @Charles said:
    > > @AlastairMeeks said:
    >
    > > > @Charles said:
    >
    > > > Count the number of Leavers planning to stand for Conservative leader. These people should be supporting Boris Johnson. They aren’t. Ask yourself why.
    >
    > > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > > >
    >
    > > > He’s going to have only a slim chance of making the last two in my opinion.
    >
    > > >
    >
    > > > I hope you are right Alastair
    >
    > >
    >
    > > I’ve given my logic. It looks like the clearest of tells to me.
    >
    >
    >
    > Getting Raab is not much better. All the oomph of a wet sponge.
    >
    > A wet sponge is fine.
    >
    > It’s the equivalent of making Carsten CEO of the LSE

    Don't start me on that topic!!!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923
    edited May 2019
    > @FrankBooth said:
    > > @HYUFD said:
    > > > @FrankBooth said:
    > > > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?
    > >
    > > To deliver Brexit, win back voters from the Brexit Party and beat Corbyn
    >
    > Why is he the man to deliver Brexit? He's shown no administrative competence whatsoever. And why do they think he'll be such a vote winner. Boris has huge name recognition - if he was any good May would have been toast ages ago.
    >
    > Surely the other candidates could do those things?

    Boris wins back voters lost to the Brexit Party as Comres showed last weekend.

    A Boris led Tory Party halved the Brexit Party total from 20% to 10% and the Tories voteshare rise from 19% to 26%, just 1% behind Labour, that was significantly better than Rudd or Raab who were also tested did
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    isam said:

    > @FrankBooth said:

    > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?



    Somebody better than the rest. He won London. Then won London again. And despite the protestations beforehand, it didn't fall into the Thames. Just ploughed on its serene way as one of the world's foremost multicultural cities.



    The rest are political pygmies beside him. Not saying I like him. Thems just the facts.....

    If the MP's wont put him into the final two, he just joins BXP as leader and takes all the members who wanted to vote for him along for the ride..

    RIP Conservative Party
    And if Farage says no?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,647
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    I see TSE has been retweeted from high places.

    Tim Farron's retweeted him as well.
    Layla Moran as well.

    https://twitter.com/LaylaMoran/status/1129283466531676160

    It feels like every Lib Dem on twitter has retweeted my original tweet.
    Aiding and abetting, eh @TheScreamingEagles
    "I am a LibDem on the wind! Watch me soar!"
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    > @HYUFD said:
    > > @FrankBooth said:
    > > > @HYUFD said:
    > > > > @FrankBooth said:
    > > > > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?
    > > >
    > > > To deliver Brexit, win back voters from the Brexit Party and beat Corbyn
    > >
    > > Why is he the man to deliver Brexit? He's shown no administrative competence whatsoever. And why do they think he'll be such a vote winner. Boris has huge name recognition - if he was any good May would have been toast ages ago.
    > >
    > > Surely the other candidates could do those things?
    >
    > Boris wins back voters lost to the Brexit Party as Comres showed last weekend.
    >
    > A Boris led Tory Party halved the Brexit Party total from 20% to 10% and the Tories voteshare rise from 19% to 26%, just 1% behind Labour, that was significantly better than Rudd or Raab who were also tested did

    Meaningless figures Boris would be a disaster
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 23,032
    This suggests that at least half of Conservative members don't care about the details of Brexit they just want the leader to make it happen and then announce victory.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923
    > @SquareRoot said:
    > > @HYUFD said:
    > > > @FrankBooth said:
    > > > > @HYUFD said:
    > > > > > @FrankBooth said:
    > > > > > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?
    > > > >
    > > > > To deliver Brexit, win back voters from the Brexit Party and beat Corbyn
    > > >
    > > > Why is he the man to deliver Brexit? He's shown no administrative competence whatsoever. And why do they think he'll be such a vote winner. Boris has huge name recognition - if he was any good May would have been toast ages ago.
    > > >
    > > > Surely the other candidates could do those things?
    > >
    > > Boris wins back voters lost to the Brexit Party as Comres showed last weekend.
    > >
    > > A Boris led Tory Party halved the Brexit Party total from 20% to 10% and the Tories voteshare rise from 19% to 26%, just 1% behind Labour, that was significantly better than Rudd or Raab who were also tested did
    >
    > Meaningless figures Boris would be a disaster

    Boris can win, left liberal diehard Remainers who hate him will never vote Tory anyway. It is voters who have defected to the Brexit Party Boris can win back, they are the only reason Corbyn Labour leads now
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 8,012
    > @Charles said:
    > > @FrankBooth said:
    >
    > > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?
    >
    >
    >
    > Somebody better than the rest. He won London. Then won London again. And despite the protestations beforehand, it didn't fall into the Thames. Just ploughed on its serene way as one of the world's foremost multicultural cities.
    >
    >
    >
    > The rest are political pygmies beside him. Not saying I like him. Thems just the facts.....
    >
    > If the MP's wont put him into the final two, he just joins BXP as leader and takes all the members who wanted to vote for him along for the ride..
    >
    > RIP Conservative Party
    >
    > And if Farage says no?

    Well, quite right: the Brexit Party isn’t a political party in the traditional British sense of the word - it’s a device to install a president.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 23,032
    > @another_richard said:
    > This suggests that at least half of Conservative members don't care about the details of Brexit they just want the leader to make it happen and then announce victory.

    To put it another way for Conservative members the imagery of Brexit is more important than its substance.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,206

    I wonder if the attempts to stop Farage from speaking might actually play into the Brexit Party's hands?

    Almost certainly.

    Trying to stop people speaking because you don’t agree with what they say, reflects much more on you than it does on them. Especially the week before an election.

    No-one is arguing with what Farage is saying, they’re just reduced to ad-hominem attacks against him. I think he’ll get more and more popular, until the rest of the politicians deliver what the people instructed them to do in June 2016.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    > @AlastairMeeks said:
    > Count the number of Leavers planning to stand for Conservative leader. These people should be supporting Boris Johnson. They aren’t. Ask yourself why.
    >
    > He’s going to have only a slim chance of making the last two in my opinion.

    My fear is most of them bottle it and he sweeps through as a result. Although in fairness some of them are even worse than him.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 102,739
    England collapsing like the Carthaginians at Zama.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 46,113
    > @TheScreamingEagles said:
    > The fact Kit Malthouse is reported to be standing in the Tory leadership contest tells you Boris is doomed.
    >
    > His deputy Mayor of eight years is effectively saying he'd do a better job than Boris.
    >
    > There's a theme, those who work closely with Boris decide they'd make a better PM than Boris, cf Gove.

    Doesn’t mean the members won’t wake up to it fast enough though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    > @HYUFD said:
    > > @FrankBooth said:
    > > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?
    >
    > To deliver Brexit, win back voters from the Brexit Party and beat Corbyn

    Vote for the WA and they get at least 1 of those, possible 2.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    > @FrankBooth said:
    > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?

    What I don't get is why he gets a pass for being a johnny come lately to the Brexit cause, and not even one who heldout against the 'awful' WA like many others did. Most Tory members hate the deal and he voted for it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    > @another_richard said:
    > > @another_richard said:
    > > This suggests that at least half of Conservative members don't care about the details of Brexit they just want the leader to make it happen and then announce victory.
    >
    > To put it another way for Conservative members the imagery of Brexit is more important than its substance.

    The problem in a nutshell.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923
    edited May 2019
    Final Newspoll before tomorrow's Australian general election has Labor narrowly ahead of the Coalition 51.5% to 48.5% on the 2PP vote, though Morrison still leads Shorten as preferred PM

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Australian_federal_election
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923
    > @kle4 said:
    > > @FrankBooth said:
    > > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?
    >
    > What I don't get is why he gets a pass for being a johnny come lately to the Brexit cause, and not even one who heldout against the 'awful' WA like many others did. Most Tory members hate the deal and he voted for it.

    Most Tory members wanted the Deal to go through on the 3rd vote
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,375
    What has Rory done that makes 29% of Tory members hate him?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,930

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    I see TSE has been retweeted from high places.

    Tim Farron's retweeted him as well.
    Layla Moran as well.

    https://twitter.com/LaylaMoran/status/1129283466531676160

    It feels like every Lib Dem on twitter has retweeted my original tweet.
    Aiding and abetting, eh @TheScreamingEagles
    "I am a LibDem on the wind! Watch me soar!"
    Wash, just pilot the ship OK? And watch out for that....oh. Too late... :(
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 1,737
    > @NickPalmer said:
    > What has Rory done that makes 29% of Tory members hate him?

    He's a remainer?
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638
    Charles said:

    isam said:

    > @FrankBooth said:

    > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?



    Somebody better than the rest. He won London. Then won London again. And despite the protestations beforehand, it didn't fall into the Thames. Just ploughed on its serene way as one of the world's foremost multicultural cities.



    The rest are political pygmies beside him. Not saying I like him. Thems just the facts.....

    If the MP's wont put him into the final two, he just joins BXP as leader and takes all the members who wanted to vote for him along for the ride..

    RIP Conservative Party
    And if Farage says no?
    Well that would sod things up, but why would he say no? I don't think he wants to be an MP let alone PM, and there is already talk of him standing aside if Boris is Tory leader, so letting him join BXP would make sense. I rate Farage better by a mile though.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 2,812
    > @MarqueeMark said:
    > > @isam said:
    > > > @FrankBooth said:
    > >
    > > > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Somebody better than the rest. He won London. Then won London again. And despite the protestations beforehand, it didn't fall into the Thames. Just ploughed on its serene way as one of the world's foremost multicultural cities.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > The rest are political pygmies beside him. Not saying I like him. Thems just the facts.....
    > >
    > > If the MP's wont put him into the final two, he just joins BXP as leader and takes all the members who wanted to vote for him along for the ride..
    > >
    > > RIP Conservative Party
    >
    > Agree. It will be suicidal for the MPs to try to be too clever by half and stop him getting to the members. Their best shot is to have 4 going forward to the members. Hope one of those outshines him.

    The MPs might regret not changing the 1922 committee rules to make it easier to pass a VONC on the leader.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    > @HYUFD said:
    > > @kle4 said:
    > > > @FrankBooth said:
    > > > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?
    > >
    > > What I don't get is why he gets a pass for being a johnny come lately to the Brexit cause, and not even one who heldout against the 'awful' WA like many others did. Most Tory members hate the deal and he voted for it.
    >
    > Most Tory members wanted the Deal to go through on the 3rd vote

    And yet will pillory anyone who supports it now.
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    Boris is sadly one of the few Tory MPs with enough populist appeal to possibly outdo Corbyn and deflate BXP at the next GE, which may come terrifyingly soon. If not him, then who is going to excite voters to actually turn out for his party?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 23,032
    > @NickPalmer said:
    > What has Rory done that makes 29% of Tory members hate him?

    Its curious.

    It can't be about background or competence.

    Perhaps they find his personality too 'downbeat' and he doesn't make them feel good about themselves.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638
    edited May 2019


    Agree. It will be suicidal for the MPs to try to be too clever by half and stop him getting to the members. Their best shot is to have 4 going forward to the members. Hope one of those outshines him.

    It would complete the hat trick though...

    Public votes to Leave, MPs wont have it
    Labour membership vote Corbyn, MPs try twice to oust him then a few flounce
    Tory members demand Boris, MPs refuse to put him on the ballot
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,647
    viewcode said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    I see TSE has been retweeted from high places.

    Tim Farron's retweeted him as well.
    Layla Moran as well.

    https://twitter.com/LaylaMoran/status/1129283466531676160

    It feels like every Lib Dem on twitter has retweeted my original tweet.
    Aiding and abetting, eh @TheScreamingEagles
    "I am a LibDem on the wind! Watch me soar!"
    Wash, just pilot the ship OK? And watch out for that....oh. Too late... :(
    You got the reference! A pity they recently remade "Serenity" without the spaceships and sci-fi setting :(
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    > @No_Offence_Alan said:
    > > @MarqueeMark said:
    > > > @isam said:
    > > > > @FrankBooth said:
    > > >
    > > > > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Somebody better than the rest. He won London. Then won London again. And despite the protestations beforehand, it didn't fall into the Thames. Just ploughed on its serene way as one of the world's foremost multicultural cities.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > The rest are political pygmies beside him. Not saying I like him. Thems just the facts.....
    > > >
    > > > If the MP's wont put him into the final two, he just joins BXP as leader and takes all the members who wanted to vote for him along for the ride..
    > > >
    > > > RIP Conservative Party
    > >
    > > Agree. It will be suicidal for the MPs to try to be too clever by half and stop him getting to the members. Their best shot is to have 4 going forward to the members. Hope one of those outshines him.
    >
    > The MPs might regret not changing the 1922 committee rules to make it easier to pass a VONC on the leader.

    It seems to me to be the height of absurdity that because Boris is very unpopular, apparently, with MPs, the people he needs to work with him, people are railing against the rules and wanting to change them to give him a shot. Are they knowingly saying they want a Corbyn, beholden just to the members and hated and mistrusted by a lot of MPs. It's not being too clever by half to not back him if they think he would be unsuitable, and demanding rule changes to allow him to win is insane.

    I don't doubt the members would be furious, but that shows that the real problem is the MPs don't connect with the members, and that won't magically be fixed by accomodating Boris, who appears to be very entitled.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 41,174
    > @blueblue said:
    > Boris is sadly one of the few Tory MPs with enough populist appeal to possibly outdo Corbyn and deflate BXP at the next GE, which may come terrifyingly soon. If not him, then who is going to excite voters to actually turn out for his party?
    -------
    What if they pick Boris and the populism doesn't work?

    Remember the much-trailed speech he delivered as Foreign Secretary that was supposed to be the positive case for Brexit, and instead his jokes bombed and it turned into one of the turning points where people realised there was nothing there.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 23,032
    > @TheScreamingEagles said:
    > We should spend this money on the NHS.
    >
    > https://twitter.com/Jim_Edwards/status/1129397732827967488
    > https://twitter.com/Jim_Edwards/status/1129398982071980032

    Yes Weimar with its famous imagery of wheelbarrows full of cash.

    Meanwhile since the Referendum CPI reached 3.1% for one month.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    > @blueblue said:
    > Boris is sadly one of the few Tory MPs with enough populist appeal to possibly outdo Corbyn and deflate BXP at the next GE, which may come terrifyingly soon. If not him, then who is going to excite voters to actually turn out for his party?

    If the only point of Boris is he can beat Corbyn personally I don't think that is enough. I really don't like Corbyn, but people are already suggesting the same things for Boris as him, that other figures will rein in the crap leader and so on. Two sides of the same coin, just with different styles.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 6,258
    HYUFD - I ask again. Why do you think Boris as opposed to Mordaunt/Gove/Raab is the one to bring back Brexit party voters?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 77,088
    edited May 2019
    > @FrankBooth said:
    > HYUFD - I ask again. Why do you think Boris as opposed to Mordaunt/Gove/Raab is the one to bring back Brexit party voters?

    The general answer seems to be he will because he will. But unless he can pull a rabbit out of his hat very quickly what will he actually achieve that will retain thos BXP voters? His charisma won't save him if he cannot deliver.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923
    > @FrankBooth said:
    > HYUFD - I ask again. Why do you think Boris as opposed to Mordaunt/Gove/Raab is the one to bring back Brexit party voters?

    As he has charisma unlike Gove and Raab and as the polls show appeals more. The Tories were on 26% under Boris with Comres only 23% with Raab at the weekend compared to 19% now. Gove generally has the worst net scores of any candidate with the public. Mourdaunt is tainted with Brexit Party voters by staying in May's Cabinet even after extension of Article 50
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 29,754
    One should not allow a deeply sub-optimal electorate the opportunity to make a grevious error that will damage the country. The EU referendum taught us that if nothing else.

    Tory MPs will hopefully bear this in mind when it comes to whether or not Boris Johnson makes the final two in the leadership contest.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    > @Casino_Royale said:
    > If Boris does make it to the final two I might vote for him.
    >
    >
    >
    > I think he's one of the few Tory MPs who would actually revoke Article 50.
    >
    >
    >
    > History has shown Boris will do what is best for him, and before the referendum he talked about voting Leave to get a better deal from the EU so we'd stay.
    >
    > Yep. He’s not to be trusted.
    >
    > And, to be fair, those closest to him never have.

    He is a thoroughly malign human being.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 44,983
    > @No_Offence_Alan said:
    > > @MarqueeMark said:
    > > > @isam said:
    > > > > @FrankBooth said:
    > > >
    > > > > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Somebody better than the rest. He won London. Then won London again. And despite the protestations beforehand, it didn't fall into the Thames. Just ploughed on its serene way as one of the world's foremost multicultural cities.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > The rest are political pygmies beside him. Not saying I like him. Thems just the facts.....
    > > >
    > > > If the MP's wont put him into the final two, he just joins BXP as leader and takes all the members who wanted to vote for him along for the ride..
    > > >
    > > > RIP Conservative Party
    > >
    > > Agree. It will be suicidal for the MPs to try to be too clever by half and stop him getting to the members. Their best shot is to have 4 going forward to the members. Hope one of those outshines him.
    >
    > The MPs might regret not changing the 1922 committee rules to make it easier to pass a VONC on the leader.

    An awful lot of Tory MPs are going to be spending an awful lot of time with their regrets.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923
    > @williamglenn said:
    > > @blueblue said:
    > > Boris is sadly one of the few Tory MPs with enough populist appeal to possibly outdo Corbyn and deflate BXP at the next GE, which may come terrifyingly soon. If not him, then who is going to excite voters to actually turn out for his party?
    > -------
    > What if they pick Boris and the populism doesn't work?
    >
    > Remember the much-trailed speech he delivered as Foreign Secretary that was supposed to be the positive case for Brexit, and instead his jokes bombed and it turned into one of the turning points where people realised there was nothing there.

    Boris made the best speech for Brexit of the entire referendum campaign

    https://youtu.be/s5xDMdJ77uk
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 41,174
    > @HYUFD said:
    >
    > Boris made the best speech for Brexit of the entire referendum campaign
    >
    > https://youtu.be/s5xDMdJ77uk

    It's been proven to be completely hollow rabble-rousing.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    > @FrankBooth said:

    > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?



    Somebody better than the rest. He won London. Then won London again. And despite the protestations beforehand, it didn't fall into the Thames. Just ploughed on its serene way as one of the world's foremost multicultural cities.



    The rest are political pygmies beside him. Not saying I like him. Thems just the facts.....

    If the MP's wont put him into the final two, he just joins BXP as leader and takes all the members who wanted to vote for him along for the ride..

    RIP Conservative Party
    And if Farage says no?
    Well that would sod things up, but why would he say no? I don't think he wants to be an MP let alone PM, and there is already talk of him standing aside if Boris is Tory leader, so letting him join BXP would make sense. I rate Farage better by a mile though.
    If Boris is leader there’s no role for Farage and no oxygen. If it was someone like Raab it could work with Farage having an Il Duce type role. I’m not sure Farage is ready for no oxygen
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    > @Charles said:

    > > @AlastairMeeks said:

    >

    > > > @Charles said:

    >

    > > > Count the number of Leavers planning to stand for Conservative leader. These people should be supporting Boris Johnson. They aren’t. Ask yourself why.

    >

    > > >

    >

    > > >

    >

    > > >

    >

    > > > He’s going to have only a slim chance of making the last two in my opinion.

    >

    > > >

    >

    > > > I hope you are right Alastair

    >

    > >

    >

    > > I’ve given my logic. It looks like the clearest of tells to me.

    >

    >

    >

    > Getting Raab is not much better. All the oomph of a wet sponge.

    >

    > A wet sponge is fine.

    >

    > It’s the equivalent of making Carsten CEO of the LSE



    Don't start me on that topic!!!

    Wanted to give you a reference you’d appreciate!
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 5,884

    Count the number of Leavers planning to stand for Conservative leader. These people should be supporting Boris Johnson. They aren’t. Ask yourself why.



    He’s going to have only a slim chance of making the last two in my opinion.


    This comment reminds me that on August 14th 2018 Alastair Meeks wrote a fascinating and informative thread headed 'Numerology. The next Conservative leader' analysing how and how not to get the right/wrong people to the jump off with the last two. Any chance that this gem could be updated, revised and run again with an eye on the current runners and riders?

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 41,174
    > @Charles said:
    >
    > If Boris is leader there’s no role for Farage and no oxygen. If it was someone like Raab it could work with Farage having an Il Duce type role. I’m not sure Farage is ready for no oxygen
    -------
    It sounds very complacent to think that any potential Tory leader would be in a position to starve Farage of oxygen.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,647
    HYUFD said:

    > @williamglenn said:

    > > @blueblue said:

    > > Boris is sadly one of the few Tory MPs with enough populist appeal to possibly outdo Corbyn and deflate BXP at the next GE, which may come terrifyingly soon. If not him, then who is going to excite voters to actually turn out for his party?

    > -------

    > What if they pick Boris and the populism doesn't work?

    >

    > Remember the much-trailed speech he delivered as Foreign Secretary that was supposed to be the positive case for Brexit, and instead his jokes bombed and it turned into one of the turning points where people realised there was nothing there.



    Boris made the best speech for Brexit of the entire referendum campaign



    image

    "It is easy to make promises - it is hard work to keep them."
    - Boris, 14 March 2012
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,930

    What has Rory done that makes 29% of Tory members hate him?

    He's thoughtful, reasonably intelligent, and tries to puzzle out the solution to a problem. As I've pointed out before, such people do not prosper in politics, which is a tribal, emotional affair. He should have joined the Civil Service... :)
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 2,689
    Bojo's appeal appears to be that we currently have a cold robotic incompetent as PM, so we might as well have a charming buffoonish incompetent as PM instead.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    There are no good options for the Tories.

    Because what the members want will destroy the party. The membership exists in its own bubble .

    For arguments sake let’s say Johnson wins and then decides to try and push for a no deal .

    So far the governments policy has been a deal , business and the markets haven’t faced a government pursuing no deal .

    Do Tories think that they exist in isolation to outside events .

    So the pound collapses , businesses come out in outrage at the government . Before no deal has even happened huge pressure will build on the party .

    Can a government embark on a course of action that it knows will harm the country and expect to survive very long .

    Those voters flippantly waving away the results of a no deal and happily voting for the BP will not stick around when the shit hits the fan .

    They’ll blame those who said it would be all okay . The Tories are screwed if they deliver a no deal and screwed if they don’t .
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638
    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    > @FrankBooth said:

    > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?



    Somebody better than the rest. He won London. Then won London again. And despite the protestations beforehand, it didn't fall into the Thames. Just ploughed on its serene way as one of the world's foremost multicultural cities.



    The rest are political pygmies beside him. Not saying I like him. Thems just the facts.....

    If the MP's wont put him into the final two, he just joins BXP as leader and takes all the members who wanted to vote for him along for the ride..

    RIP Conservative Party
    And if Farage says no?
    Well that would sod things up, but why would he say no? I don't think he wants to be an MP let alone PM, and there is already talk of him standing aside if Boris is Tory leader, so letting him join BXP would make sense. I rate Farage better by a mile though.
    If Boris is leader there’s no role for Farage and no oxygen. If it was someone like Raab it could work with Farage having an Il Duce type role. I’m not sure Farage is ready for no oxygen
    I wouldn't know, but he seemed ok with retiring when Brexit looked to be achieved in 2016. If a deal had passed I think he would have just slagged it off on the radio. Installing Boris as PM for his Brexit party would be even better.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923
    edited May 2019
    > @nico67 said:
    > There are no good options for the Tories.
    >
    > Because what the members want will destroy the party. The membership exists in its own bubble .
    >
    > For arguments sake let’s say Johnson wins and then decides to try and push for a no deal .
    >
    > So far the governments policy has been a deal , business and the markets haven’t faced a government pursuing no deal .
    >
    > Do Tories think that they exist in isolation to outside events .
    >
    > So the pound collapses , businesses come out in outrage at the government . Before no deal has even happened huge pressure will build on the party .
    >
    > Can a government embark on a course of action that it knows will harm the country and expect to survive very long .
    >
    > Those voters flippantly waving away the results of a no deal and happily voting for the BP will not stick around when the shit hits the fan .
    >
    > They’ll blame those who said it would be all okay . The Tories are screwed if they deliver a no deal and screwed if they don’t .
    >
    >

    The Tories will only deliver No Deal if they win a general election on that platform, the current Commons as is clear would even vote for revoke over No Deal .

    In any case Boris voted for the Withdrawal Agreement last time not No Deal like Francois, he wants a harder Brexit in the future relationship and a Canada style FTA but that is not straight to No Deal
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    > @solarflare said:
    > Bojo's appeal appears to be that we currently have a cold robotic incompetent as PM, so we might as well have a charming buffoonish incompetent as PM instead.

    The current Tory leader blew a 25% poll lead to lose their majority while Johnson won Labour London twice. Much as I think he would make an awful PM the attraction is rather obvious, even if you can argue that he is well past his electoral peak.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,930

    viewcode said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    I see TSE has been retweeted from high places.

    Tim Farron's retweeted him as well.
    Layla Moran as well.

    https://twitter.com/LaylaMoran/status/1129283466531676160

    It feels like every Lib Dem on twitter has retweeted my original tweet.
    Aiding and abetting, eh @TheScreamingEagles
    "I am a LibDem on the wind! Watch me soar!"
    Wash, just pilot the ship OK? And watch out for that....oh. Too late... :(
    You got the reference! A pity they recently remade "Serenity" without the spaceships and sci-fi setting :(
    I hate to be That Guy, but if you are referring to the recent film of the same name with Anne Hathaway, it is a sci-fi film. Google the plot to confirm.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    > @algarkirk said:
    > Count the number of Leavers planning to stand for Conservative leader. These people should be supporting Boris Johnson. They aren’t. Ask yourself why.
    >
    >
    >
    > He’s going to have only a slim chance of making the last two in my opinion.
    >
    >
    > This comment reminds me that on August 14th 2018 Alastair Meeks wrote a fascinating and informative thread headed 'Numerology. The next Conservative leader' analysing how and how not to get the right/wrong people to the jump off with the last two. Any chance that this gem could be updated, revised and run again with an eye on the current runners and riders?

    I’ll have a think and see what I can do.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 3,525
    edited May 2019
    > @solarflare said:
    > Bojo's appeal appears to be that we currently have a cold robotic incompetent as PM, so we might as well have a charming buffoonish incompetent as PM instead.

    Epigoni as Mr Meeks would have it.

    Which begs the question, when Boris is next caught with his pants down, would that be an epigoni.poke?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923
    edited May 2019
    > @OblitusSumMe said:
    > > @solarflare said:
    > > Bojo's appeal appears to be that we currently have a cold robotic incompetent as PM, so we might as well have a charming buffoonish incompetent as PM instead.
    >
    > The current Tory leader blew a 25% poll lead to lose their majority while Johnson won Labour London twice. Much as I think he would make an awful PM the attraction is rather obvious, even if you can argue that he is well past his electoral peak.

    Exactly and 9/10 the more charismatic candidate wins the general election and Boris has charisma in spades. You have to go back to 1992 when John Major was Tory leader for that not to be the case and before that to Heath in 1970 and before that to Attlee in 1945 and 1950
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,375
    > @viewcode said:
    > What has Rory done that makes 29% of Tory members hate him?
    >
    > He's thoughtful, reasonably intelligent, and tries to puzzle out the solution to a problem. As I've pointed out before, such people do not prosper in politics, which is a tribal, emotional affair. He should have joined the Civil Service... :)

    Gove is just like that most of the time, and he does OK.

    I think it's name recognition, really. All the others have been around the block a few times.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,647
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    I see TSE has been retweeted from high places.

    Tim Farron's retweeted him as well.
    Layla Moran as well.

    https://twitter.com/LaylaMoran/status/1129283466531676160

    It feels like every Lib Dem on twitter has retweeted my original tweet.
    Aiding and abetting, eh @TheScreamingEagles
    "I am a LibDem on the wind! Watch me soar!"
    Wash, just pilot the ship OK? And watch out for that....oh. Too late... :(
    You got the reference! A pity they recently remade "Serenity" without the spaceships and sci-fi setting :(
    I hate to be That Guy, but if you are referring to the recent film of the same name with Anne Hathaway, it is a sci-fi film. Google the plot to confirm.
    Yebbut no spaceships. No Mal, no River, no Kaylee :)
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 41,647

    > @solarflare said:

    > Bojo's appeal appears to be that we currently have a cold robotic incompetent as PM, so we might as well have a charming buffoonish incompetent as PM instead.



    The current Tory leader blew a 25% poll lead to lose their majority while Johnson won Labour London twice. Much as I think he would make an awful PM the attraction is rather obvious, even if you can argue that he is well past his electoral peak.

    The current Tory leader still got more votes and more seats than Labour...
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    > @AlastairMeeks said:
    > Count the number of Leavers planning to stand for Conservative leader. These people should be supporting Boris Johnson. They aren’t. Ask yourself why.
    >
    > He’s going to have only a slim chance of making the last two in my opinion.

    That raises an interesting question. Who is the most senior supporter of a leadership candidate?

    The only MP I can think of who has come out publicly in support of a different MP for leader is Rees-Mogg in support of Johnson. Oh wait. Did Davis say he was supporting Raab?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,930
    nico67 said:

    There are no good options for the Tories.



    Because what the members want will destroy the party. The membership exists in its own bubble .



    For arguments sake let’s say Johnson wins and then decides to try and push for a no deal .



    So far the governments policy has been a deal , business and the markets haven’t faced a government pursuing no deal .



    Do Tories think that they exist in isolation to outside events .



    So the pound collapses , businesses come out in outrage at the government . Before no deal has even happened huge pressure will build on the party .



    Can a government embark on a course of action that it knows will harm the country and expect to survive very long .



    Those voters flippantly waving away the results of a no deal and happily voting for the BP will not stick around when the shit hits the fan .



    They’ll blame those who said it would be all okay . The Tories are screwed if they deliver a no deal and screwed if they don’t .

    Time for another airing of my conspiracy theory. A group of people have redirected their patriotism to the Anglosphere. Relieved of the obligation to care about the people of the United Kingdom, they initiate a plan to sever the UK from the EU, devalue the currency and convert its population into a highly educated low-paid workforce with little mobility and less rights. Once achieved, they will use the UK as a base for a European Singapore, with the population kept happy with a diet of hatreds.

    The utility of an idea is not in its truth or falsehood, it's it's ability to use it to make predictions. Under this conspiracy theory a leader will emerge to carry out this plan, and any wreckage he might cause is at best irrelevant, at worst planned.

    Now. If this conspiracy theory is true...how would you tell the difference between it and the current reality?
    :)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 40,206
    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    Charles said:

    isam said:

    > @FrankBooth said:

    > Can anyone explain why Boris, a blundering incompetent as foreign secretary, is so popular with Tory members? What matters to these people? What do they want?



    Somebody better than the rest. He won London. Then won London again. And despite the protestations beforehand, it didn't fall into the Thames. Just ploughed on its serene way as one of the world's foremost multicultural cities.



    The rest are political pygmies beside him. Not saying I like him. Thems just the facts.....

    If the MP's wont put him into the final two, he just joins BXP as leader and takes all the members who wanted to vote for him along for the ride..

    RIP Conservative Party
    And if Farage says no?
    Well that would sod things up, but why would he say no? I don't think he wants to be an MP let alone PM, and there is already talk of him standing aside if Boris is Tory leader, so letting him join BXP would make sense. I rate Farage better by a mile though.
    If Boris is leader there’s no role for Farage and no oxygen. If it was someone like Raab it could work with Farage having an Il Duce type role. I’m not sure Farage is ready for no oxygen
    I wouldn't know, but he seemed ok with retiring when Brexit looked to be achieved in 2016. If a deal had passed I think he would have just slagged it off on the radio. Installing Boris as PM for his Brexit party would be even better.
    If we’d left the EU on time a couple of months ago, Farage would most likely disappeared back to his radio show and that would have been that.

    He’s only back because we’re still in the EU and having these elections.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 100,923
    > @viewcode said:
    > There are no good options for the Tories.
    >
    >
    >
    > Because what the members want will destroy the party. The membership exists in its own bubble .
    >
    >
    >
    > For arguments sake let’s say Johnson wins and then decides to try and push for a no deal .
    >
    >
    >
    > So far the governments policy has been a deal , business and the markets haven’t faced a government pursuing no deal .
    >
    >
    >
    > Do Tories think that they exist in isolation to outside events .
    >
    >
    >
    > So the pound collapses , businesses come out in outrage at the government . Before no deal has even happened huge pressure will build on the party .
    >
    >
    >
    > Can a government embark on a course of action that it knows will harm the country and expect to survive very long .
    >
    >
    >
    > Those voters flippantly waving away the results of a no deal and happily voting for the BP will not stick around when the shit hits the fan .
    >
    >
    >
    > They’ll blame those who said it would be all okay . The Tories are screwed if they deliver a no deal and screwed if they don’t .
    >
    > Time for another airing of my conspiracy theory. A group of people have redirected their patriotism to the Anglosphere. Relieved of the obligation to care about the people of the United Kingdom, they initiate a plan to sever the UK from the EU, devalue the currency and convert its population into a highly educated low-paid workforce with little mobility and less rights. Once achieved, they will use the UK as a base for a European Singapore, with the population kept happy with a diet of hatreds.
    >
    > The utility of an idea is not in its truth or falsehood, it's it's ability to use it to make predictions. Under this conspiracy theory a leader will emerge to carry out this plan, and any wreckage he might cause is at best irrelevant, at worst planned.
    >
    > Now. If this conspiracy theory is true...how would you tell the difference between it and the current reality?
    > :)

    Singapore has the second highest gdp per capita in Asia after Qatar (which is full of oil) and Singapore also tops the current PISA education rankings, there are worse fates than being Singapore
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 41,174
    > @Sandpit said:
    >
    > If we’d left the EU on time a couple of months ago, Farage would most likely disappeared back to his radio show and that would have been that.
    >
    > He’s only back because we’re still in the EU and having these elections.
    -------

    The level of planning behind their operation suggests otherwise. This wasn't just dependent on the extension, even if he's taking full advantage of the elections.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 8,012
    edited May 2019
    Terrible isn’t it? We were given this Brexit extension to avert catastrophe, but within an instant we’re squandering it on the psychological analysis of Tory membership and Borisology. Aren’t there more pressing concerns?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,930
    edited May 2019
    HYUFD said:

    > @viewcode said:

    > Time for another airing of my conspiracy theory. A group of people have redirected their patriotism to the Anglosphere. Relieved of the obligation to care about the people of the United Kingdom, they initiate a plan to sever the UK from the EU, devalue the currency and convert its population into a highly educated low-paid workforce with little mobility and less rights. Once achieved, they will use the UK as a base for a European Singapore, with the population kept happy with a diet of hatreds.

    > The utility of an idea is not in its truth or falsehood, it's it's ability to use it to make predictions. Under this conspiracy theory a leader will emerge to carry out this plan, and any wreckage he might cause is at best irrelevant, at worst planned.

    > Now. If this conspiracy theory is true...how would you tell the difference between it and the current reality?

    > :)



    Singapore has the second highest gdp per capita in Asia after Qatar (which is full of oil) and Singapore also tops the current PISA education rankings, there are worse fates than being Singapore

    It wasn't the kind of country I was planning to grow old and die in... :(
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 23,032
    > @viewcode said:
    > There are no good options for the Tories.
    >
    >
    >
    > Because what the members want will destroy the party. The membership exists in its own bubble .
    >
    >
    >
    > For arguments sake let’s say Johnson wins and then decides to try and push for a no deal .
    >
    >
    >
    > So far the governments policy has been a deal , business and the markets haven’t faced a government pursuing no deal .
    >
    >
    >
    > Do Tories think that they exist in isolation to outside events .
    >
    >
    >
    > So the pound collapses , businesses come out in outrage at the government . Before no deal has even happened huge pressure will build on the party .
    >
    >
    >
    > Can a government embark on a course of action that it knows will harm the country and expect to survive very long .
    >
    >
    >
    > Those voters flippantly waving away the results of a no deal and happily voting for the BP will not stick around when the shit hits the fan .
    >
    >
    >
    > They’ll blame those who said it would be all okay . The Tories are screwed if they deliver a no deal and screwed if they don’t .
    >
    > Time for another airing of my conspiracy theory. A group of people have redirected their patriotism to the Anglosphere. Relieved of the obligation to care about the people of the United Kingdom, they initiate a plan to sever the UK from the EU, devalue the currency and convert its population into a highly educated low-paid workforce with little mobility and less rights. Once achieved, they will use the UK as a base for a European Singapore, with the population kept happy with a diet of hatreds.
    >
    > The utility of an idea is not in its truth or falsehood, it's it's ability to use it to make predictions. Under this conspiracy theory a leader will emerge to carry out this plan, and any wreckage he might cause is at best irrelevant, at worst planned.
    >
    > Now. If this conspiracy theory is true...how would you tell the difference between it and the current reality?
    > :)

    How do you get to the low paid workforce ?
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