> @bigjohnowls said: > > @nico67 said: > > Farage car crash on Marr . > > > > Shows him up for the lying spiv he is . > > BREXIT party voters dont watch Marr
Reading all the complaints about the BBC giving airtime to Farage, it seems to me that they wouldn't give him coverage if lefties didn't react like Pavlov's dogs every time he appears.
> @dr_spyn said: > Cameron and May aren't fit to be compared with Lloyd George. >
That is unfair on Cameron and May.
Have you read any biography of Lloyd George? He was (by the end) very clearly highly corrupt.
The biographies by his family members, some of whom clearly loathed him, are best.
He always reminds me of Blair -- someone who believed in nothing and by the end of his life had turned his back on anything he had ever believed in during his youth.
Hey @Big_G (and other people), when you reply to posts, any chance you could trim the quoted stuff down to just the bit you're replying to? It's Vanilla's fault not yours, but once it gets a few levels deep it starts to tire out my scrolling fingers.
I am likely to muck it up even worse by trimming, but will get the scalpel out.
Reading all the complaints about the BBC giving airtime to Farage, it seems to me that they wouldn't give him coverage if lefties didn't react like Pavlov's dogs every time he appears.
He retired from politics in 2016 and was barely on tv for three years. All the establishment had to do to keep it that way was honour the referendum result
> @AlastairMeeks said: > Anecdote alert: my mum is very fed up about the EU elections, she told me when she spontaneously brought up the subject yesterday. She’s going to spoil her ballot paper, writing something like Brexit means Brexit on the ballot paper: “lots of people are saying that they’re going to do that”. It had not crossed her mind to vote for the Brexit party: when I asked she told me that she holds Nigel Farage partly responsible for the current mess.
Cameron and May aren't fit to be compared with Lloyd George.
Still trying to work out who speaks for Labour on Brexit, Adonis or Gardiner, one claims Labour is for Remain, the other Leave.
I believe they call it constructive ambiguity.
And although it no longer looks like they will top the EP elections, it has generally worked in the 'so long as we lose less than the Tories we win' strategy. The core vote simultaneously seems to grumble that the leadership is not remain enough, while being utterly convinced Labour as a whole will campaign for and seek remain.
I appreciate that ardent Leavers may feel he and the Brexit party are the necessary route to achieving a proper Brexit, but blimey you're playing with fire; he's a very dangerous man. Marr exposed Farage's true colours on a wide range of topics.
I fear those who think Farage can be used to achieve a 'clean Brexit' then discarded are going to regret it.
H> @JackW said: > I would take a counter view on the Marr/Farage interview. > > Farage talking to his base and the disaffected across the political spectrum not the Metropolitan elite. IMO a clear win for Farage.
In which case his base are happy to accept that he’s a liar . Farage is in it for Farage , anyone who thinks he gives a toss about poor left behind Communities is deluded .
> @kle4 said: > And although it no longer looks like they will top the EP elections, it has generally worked in the 'so long as we lose less than the Tories we win' strategy. The core vote simultaneously seems to grumble that the leadership is not remain enough, while being utterly convinced Labour as a whole will campaign for and seek remain.
There is of course a Reckoning coming for Labour.
Maybe the best way out for the Tories is to make Corbyn PM without permitting him a General Election.
Excellent. If Andrew Marr can trip him up, imagine Andrew Neil at work ...
Now a question for those who follow politics (even) more than me:
I signed the Revoke petition. To maximise the no. of pro-EU MEPs in the W. Mids. should I vote Green, my 1st preference, or Lib.Dem, my 2nd preference?
It does seem to be a hard question generally, but looking at it given the area currently has neither Green nor LD, that it used to have a LD MEP but not a Green, and currently the LDs are riding higher than the Greens, then I'd think the best chance is probably with the LDs.
Hey @Big_G (and other people), when you reply to posts, any chance you could trim the quoted stuff down to just the bit you're replying to? It's Vanilla's fault not yours, but once it gets a few levels deep it starts to tire out my scrolling fingers.
Here's a better idea - how about somebody getting Vanilla to sort out the lack of blockquotes on the PB.com site?
> And although it no longer looks like they will top the EP elections, it has generally worked in the 'so long as we lose less than the Tories we win' strategy. The core vote simultaneously seems to grumble that the leadership is not remain enough, while being utterly convinced Labour as a whole will campaign for and seek remain.
There is of course a Reckoning coming for Labour.
Maybe the best way out for the Tories is to make Corbyn PM without permitting him a General Election.
Can they do that?
Technically yes, even by accident - lose a vote of no confidence and have Corbyn cobble together a majority in the 2 week period afterwards. I imagine he is terrified of the scenario, having to deal with the mess before us. Best bet is the DUP not renewing their agreement with the Tories I suppose. I don't know how likely that is, but I also don't see why the two sides would bother when they cannot agree on the main issue of the day.
Britain's super rich are preparing to flee the country at the prospect of a Corbyn government taking almost £1 trillion with them, many are also making plans to move assets and businesses abroad
John McDonnell has been increasingly vocal in his desire to expropriate wealth, delist companies and nationalise businesses with little compensation. There’s a *LOT* of companies and wealthy individuals going to be planning to move assets out of the country, ready to hit the button before he’s even got his foot in the door of Number 11.
Zzzzzzz Heard it all before... Before May 1997 in fact
> @isam said: > .Reading all the complaints about the BBC giving airtime to Farage, it seems to me that they wouldn't give him coverage if lefties didn't react like Pavlov's dogs every time he appears. > > He retired from politics in 2016 and was barely on tv for three years. All the establishment had to do to keep it that way was honour the referendum result
The Farage who in January 2018 was talking about a second referendum ?
Mr. Cwsc, there's a possibility, outside chance as it is, that the Brexit Party and maybe even the Lib Dems could do well enough to make Parliament as well hung as a Grand National winner.
Tiger Roll is a gelding, so not as well hung has he might have been, just saying.
> @initforthemoney said: > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > Anecdote alert: my mum is very fed up about the EU elections, she told me when she spontaneously brought up the subject yesterday. She’s going to spoil her ballot paper, writing something like Brexit means Brexit on the ballot paper: “lots of people are saying that they’re going to do that”. It had not crossed her mind to vote for the Brexit party: when I asked she told me that she holds Nigel Farage partly responsible for the current mess. > > Does she blame you as well?
It didn’t come up in the conversation. She’s not shy about telling me where she thinks I go wrong.
Farage's comments about the EU beating down our door for a trade deal post no deal Brexit are a palpable nonsense given they haven't done one with the USA yet.
The interview seemed successful to me however - no car crash.
> @kle4 said: > Cameron and May aren't fit to be compared with Lloyd George. > > > > Still trying to work out who speaks for Labour on Brexit, Adonis or Gardiner, one claims Labour is for Remain, the other Leave. > > I believe they call it constructive ambiguity. > > > And although it no longer looks like they will top the EP elections, it has generally worked in the 'so long as we lose less than the Tories we win' strategy. The core vote simultaneously seems to grumble that the leadership is not remain enough, while being utterly convinced Labour as a whole will campaign for and seek remain.
Labour's strategy may have reached the point of not working.
> @isam said: > > @isam said: > > > > > > Ooh touchy! > > > > No - just pointing out that your spouting vague fantasies rather than dealing with the details of reality. > > > > And that's what underlies the problems of our politics - people don't want to bother with the details of reality. > > You’re not going to get me to answer your questions by doling out insults I can tell you that 😘
You're not going to answer the questions because you don't have any answers.
Farage's comments about the EU beating down our door for a trade deal post no deal Brexit are a palpable nonsense given they haven't done one with the USA yet.
The interview seemed successful to me however - no car crash.
> @kinabalu said: > One thing is now very, very clear. > > > > If the Tory party fails to Brexit in some form, it will lose in 2022 or before, possibly bigly. > > > > So, if we end up Remaining, then we will get PM Corbyn. > > Yes. The mouthwatering Remain Socialism double is ON. > > Quite soft socialism, of course, since the EU won't permit the Class A.
OTOH you may get hard Brexit and a more right wing government. It's double or quits.
> @Benpointer said: > Just watched the Farage interview on Marr. > > I appreciate that ardent Leavers may feel he and the Brexit party are the necessary route to achieving a proper Brexit, but blimey you're playing with fire; he's a very dangerous man. Marr exposed Farage's true colours on a wide range of topics. > > I fear those who think Farage can be used to achieve a 'clean Brexit' then discarded are going to regret it.
His record suggests that Farage is the one who does the discarding when he achieves what he wants (& that won't involve him shuffling off into obscurity).
Farage's comments about the EU beating down our door for a trade deal post no deal Brexit are a palpable nonsense given they haven't done one with the USA yet.
The interview seemed successful to me however - no car crash.
Farage is still good, but you can see the direction he is going. He is relying more and more on lies and bluster and less on the quick thinking and humour he used to have in abundance. He will become a parody of himself. He should have quite while he was ahead.
Stopping him from topping the poll again is probably not possible at this point, although the very fact that he has topped the EP vote before makes the nervous quaking of some people at the prospect a bit overdone. The best way to undercut him is agree a position to Brexit prior to the EP elections, so even though he will still win them and there will be cries of betrayal, he and his fellows will be out of a job come the end of the summer. Then the question is whether his cries of betrayal will see the Brexit party continuing their very high Westminster ratings. Maybe, but I think the very fervour by which he righteously attacks parliament for not brexiting does suggest that it will be hard to have the same fervour when we have left, but not well enough. There are plenty who will hate a cobbled together brexit arrangement, but will the number of angry people be the same as those furious we have not left at all?
Of course, there's no sign of agreement since why would Labour seek to stem the Tory implosion in advance of the elections, and the Tories are too divided to do anything that would enable an agreement even if they want to, as May and co clearly do.
Given we are already up to May I can see a chance the parliament makes it to 2020, but not ekeing it out until 2022.
F1: a quartet of tips (for those interested, I'm just backing with half-stakes): Verstappen, podium, 2.6 Hamilton, lead lap 1, 3.5 Raikkonen to beat Ricciardo, 2.75 Norris, winner without the big 6, 17 (each way)
Verstappen was essentially on pace with Ferrari in qualifying so should have a good chance of a podium.
At every race bar one, which was close, I think this season has seen the pole-sitter passed off the line every time.
Ricciardo has a 75% DNF record and Raikkonen a 100% finishing record. So 2.75 on the Finn 'winning' seems generous.
As for Norris, ahead of him he has the Haas cars, which tend to go backwards, and Kvyat, who's had a somewhat patchy season. So 17 looks a bit long.
Also, for those who backed my early 36 suggestion on Verstappen to win, I'd advocate a hedge at around 3. It's looking very much like a Mercedes race, but if they tangle with one another or suffer misfortune, Verstappen's odds will plummet.
One idea, not huge odds but based on interviews with the Mercedes drivers yesterday. I think the race is going to be decided at the first corner, with both drivers holding position and managing things from there. So, the betting strategy is to back one driver to lead the first lap and the other to win the race, whichever delivers the best return. Barring reliability, accident or almighty strategic error, that should pay out somewhere around 20-30% return on a Mercedes win.
> Labour's strategy may have reached the point of not working.
In what way? Sure their polling is taking a hit too, but the Tories are on the point of imminent collapse and spend all their time insulting each other.
Stopping him from topping the poll again is probably not possible at this point, although the very fact that he has topped the EP vote before makes the nervous quaking of some people at the prospect a bit overdone. The best way to undercut him is agree a position to Brexit prior to the EP elections, so even though he will still win them and there will be cries of betrayal, he and his fellows will be out of a job come the end of the summer. Then the question is whether his cries of betrayal will see the Brexit party continuing their very high Westminster ratings. Maybe, but I think the very fervour by which he righteously attacks parliament for not brexiting does suggest that it will be hard to have the same fervour when we have left, but not well enough. There are plenty who will hate a cobbled together brexit arrangement, but will the number of angry people be the same as those furious we have not leeft at all?
Of course, there's no sign of agreement since why would Labour seek to stem the Tory implosion in advance of the elections, and the Tories are too divided to do anything that would enable an agreement even if they want to, as May and co clearly do.
Given we are already up to May I can see a chance the parliament makes it to 2020, but not ekeing it out until 2022.
> @rottenborough said: > I would take a counter view on the Marr/Farage interview. > > > > Farage talking to his base and the disaffected across the political spectrum not the Metropolitan elite. IMO a clear win for Farage. > > https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/1127509766140518400 > > > > His whole thread should be read. Not that anyone in the major parties would pay a blind bit of notice.
To Harry Cole? No they wouldn't. He gives Milo Yiannopoulos a run for his money.
> @geoffw said: > Farage's comments about the EU beating down our door for a trade deal post no deal Brexit are a palpable nonsense given they haven't done one with the USA yet. > > > > The interview seemed successful to me however - no car crash. > > Not so successful for Marr though.
Marr was OK - Farage plays the interview game (via the Trump playbook) better than average though.
> Farage's comments about the EU beating down our door for a trade deal post no deal Brexit are a palpable nonsense given they haven't done one with the USA yet.
>
>
>
> The interview seemed successful to me however - no car crash.
>
> Not so successful for Marr though.
Marr was OK - Farage plays the interview game (via the Trump playbook) better than average though.
Those weren't my comments! edit - they are inverted!
Stopping him from topping the poll again is probably not possible at this point, although the very fact that he has topped the EP vote before makes the nervous quaking of some people at the prospect a bit overdone. The best way to undercut him is agree a position to Brexit prior to the EP elections, so even though he will still win them and there will be cries of betrayal, he and his fellows will be out of a job come the end of the summer. Then the question is whether his cries of betrayal will see the Brexit party continuing their very high Westminster ratings. Maybe, but I think the very fervour by which he righteously attacks parliament for not brexiting does suggest that it will be hard to have the same fervour when we have left, but not well enough. There are plenty who will hate a cobbled together brexit arrangement, but will the number of angry people be the same as those furious we have not leeft at all?
Of course, there's no sign of agreement since why would Labour seek to stem the Tory implosion in advance of the elections, and the Tories are too divided to do anything that would enable an agreement even if they want to, as May and co clearly do.
Given we are already up to May I can see a chance the parliament makes it to 2020, but not ekeing it out until 2022.
I agree - a very perceptive and reasonable post.
Well, quit while you're ahead I say, so off into the sunshine I go!
> Farage's comments about the EU beating down our door for a trade deal post no deal Brexit are a palpable nonsense given they haven't done one with the USA yet.
>
>
>
> The interview seemed successful to me however - no car crash.
>
> Not so successful for Marr though.
Marr was OK - Farage plays the interview game (via the Trump playbook) better than average though.
Those weren't my comments! edit - they are inverted!
It's as confused as a Labour Brexit spokesperson in here.
> It’s a beautiful morning but the bait shop is CLOSED and my breakfast is ready
LOL
Is that all you've got ?
The constant need for definition of where we will be in the future, how it will be achieved by rigid plans etc just makes me think of socialism to be honest.
Mr. Sandpit, got to admit, I considered, at short odds, the Mercedes 1-2 or double podium bets. I think the race might be tighter, especially if the safety car is malign for the Silver Arrows but, all else being equal, I do expect them to be 1 and 2, again.
> @AlastairMeeks said: > > @initforthemoney said: > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > Anecdote alert: my mum is very fed up about the EU elections, she told me when she spontaneously brought up the subject yesterday. She’s going to spoil her ballot paper, writing something like Brexit means Brexit on the ballot paper: “lots of people are saying that they’re going to do that”. It had not crossed her mind to vote for the Brexit party: when I asked she told me that she holds Nigel Farage partly responsible for the current mess. > > > > Does she blame you as well? > > It didn’t come up in the conversation. She’s not shy about telling me where she thinks I go wrong.
Is she aware of your sweeping generalisations regarding leavers or do you soften the tone at home?
> > With all his many faults Farage is not quite like Corbyn.
>
>
>
> The two are matching ugly bookends.
>
> They're both pandering to racist scumbags, both disturbingly close to rogue foreign governments, both dense as five posts, both putting forward impossible dreams based on their personal fantasies of a mythical past utopia and both have an almost cult-like following.
>
> But - please correct me if I am wrong - Farage has never supported or been an apologist for terrorists.
He has not one but two MEP candidates who supported the IRA’s bombing campaigns.
Of course, he’s picking up his rifle himself.
They are both equally malign.
Farage’s economic policy - insofar as one can be discerned - a No Deal Brexit - is likely to do very serious damage to our economy and peoples’ jobs. He is just as willing as Corbyn to perpetrate anti-semitic tropes. He seems to have a fondness for authoritarian illiberal leaders.
And his party’s funding is obscure. More money is being spent than the amount given by one known donor. Plus the way he has set up his party - with no structure so that it simply revolves around him is odd and pretty undemocratic for someone who claims to believe in democracy. At the risk of invoking the Godwin rule, it has a hint of the Fuehrerprinzip about it.
There is little to choose between them. Both are examples of illiberal politicians who are helping to normalise - within their parties first and then in society - some deeply unpleasant, hateful and illberal ways of thinking that have in the past brought misery to millions. There is no reason to think that their approach to politics will be any more successful in the future.
Britain's super rich are preparing to flee the country at the prospect of a Corbyn government taking almost £1 trillion with them, many are also making plans to move assets and businesses abroad
John McDonnell has been increasingly vocal in his desire to expropriate wealth, delist companies and nationalise businesses with little compensation. There’s a *LOT* of companies and wealthy individuals going to be planning to move assets out of the country, ready to hit the button before he’s even got his foot in the door of Number 11.
Zzzzzzz Heard it all before... Before May 1997 in fact
There’s at least one order of magnitude between what Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were proposing in 1997, and what Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell are proposing in 2019.
The current Labour leadership genuinely don’t believe in private property, to them any assets they consider to be ‘undeserved’ are fair game.
> @kle4 said: > > > Labour's strategy may have reached the point of not working. > > In what way? Sure their polling is taking a hit too, but the Tories are on the point of imminent collapse and spend all their time insulting each other.
But, that's mostly true of Labour as well. The Conservative and Labour parties need each other to give their supporters something to vote against. When support for one rises, so does support for the other. When support for one falls, so does the other. It's like the relationship between Sinn Fein and the DUP.
Stopping him from topping the poll again is probably not possible at this point, although the very fact that he has topped the EP vote before makes the nervous quaking of some people at the prospect a bit overdone. The best way to undercut him is agree a position to Brexit prior to the EP elections, so even though he will still win them and there will be cries of betrayal, he and his fellows will be out of a job come the end of the summer. Then the question is whether his cries of betrayal will see the Brexit party continuing their very high Westminster ratings. Maybe, but I think the very fervour by which he righteously attacks parliament for not brexiting does suggest that it will be hard to have the same fervour when we have left, but not well enough. There are plenty who will hate a cobbled together brexit arrangement, but will the number of angry people be the same as those furious we have not left at all?
Of course, there's no sign of agreement since why would Labour seek to stem the Tory implosion in advance of the elections, and the Tories are too divided to do anything that would enable an agreement even if they want to, as May and co clearly do.
Given we are already up to May I can see a chance the parliament makes it to 2020, but not ekeing it out until 2022.
Movement in parliament will be dependent on movement in the mood and arithmetic within it.
The collapse of the Tories in the polls and the council elections,followed by what are likely to be dismal results in the euros and Peterborough has served notice on them.
This needs to be combined with Labour doing badly in the North and Midlands, which happened at the council elections. This will exert increased pressure on the bloc of 25-30 MPs sitting in Leave seats who are anti-referendum.
Then replacing remainer MP Fiona Onasanya with a leaver would be the icing on the cake.
The EU may well see it's own eurosceptic element flourish in two weeks' time and the integrationists like Macron and Verhofstadt may well find that adding Brexiteers to it's own increasingly fractured parliament is one disruption and threat too many.
Mr. Ace, the rosbif/frog examples are ones of taking the piss.
Little Englander is just talking down to people who have the temerity to hold what's deemed the wrong view (the equivalent of 'basket of deplorables').
I met up with an old friend over the weekend - rather right wing and an erstwhile europhobe. He likened Brexit to someone’s insistence on keeping their appointment with the Dignitas clinic even after being informed that the tumour was misdiagnosed.
> @isam said: > > @isam said: > > > > > > It’s a beautiful morning but the bait shop is CLOSED and my breakfast is ready > > > > LOL > > > > Is that all you've got ? > > The constant need for definition of where we will be in the future, how it will be achieved by rigid plans etc just makes me think of socialism to be honest.
So asking who is the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM is now 'socialism'.
So asking whether the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM needs any of the skills of government is now 'socialism'.
So asking how the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM gets a majority in the HoC is now 'socialism'.
> > It’s a beautiful morning but the bait shop is CLOSED and my breakfast is ready
>
>
>
> LOL
>
>
>
> Is that all you've got ?
>
> The constant need for definition of where we will be in the future, how it will be achieved by rigid plans etc just makes me think of socialism to be honest.
So asking who is the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM is now 'socialism'.
So asking whether the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM needs any of the skills of government is now 'socialism'.
So asking how the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM gets a majority in the HoC is now 'socialism'.
You've got no answers have you.
I gave you my answer. Your approach just reminds me of socialism’s requirements which usually lead to stagnation. I don’t need to say who how or why, I just said what I’d like to see.
Our argument is free market thinking vs socialist planning
Farage's comments about the EU beating down our door for a trade deal post no deal Brexit are a palpable nonsense given they haven't done one with the USA yet.
The interview seemed successful to me however - no car crash.
Farage is still good, but you can see the direction he is going. He is relying more and more on lies and bluster and less on the quick thinking and humour he used to have in abundance. He will become a parody of himself. He should have quite while he was ahead.
I’m sure that, had we actually left the EU on 29th March, we’d be hearing very little from him now. He’s only launched a new party to fight these elections, because we haven’t left yet.
> @Morris_Dancer said: > Mr. Ace, the rosbif/frog examples are ones of taking the piss. > > Little Englander is just talking down to people who have the temerity to hold what's deemed the wrong view (the equivalent of 'basket of deplorables').
But the alternative is to patronize by pretending the views are worthy of respect.
Farage's comments about the EU beating down our door for a trade deal post no deal Brexit are a palpable nonsense given they haven't done one with the USA yet.
The interview seemed successful to me however - no car crash.
Farage is still good, but you can see the direction he is going. He is relying more and more on lies and bluster and less on the quick thinking and humour he used to have in abundance. He will become a parody of himself. He should have quite while he was ahead.
I’m sure that, had we actually left the EU on 29th March, we’d be hearing very little from him now. He’s only launched a new party to fight these elections, because we haven’t left yet.
I agree. I think most people who are voting for the Brexit Party are motivated by the failure to Leave, rather than by the type of Leave.
I've been tempted to vote for them but (a) I don't favour a No Deal Brexit and (b) the Conservatives need my vote more.
Thinking more about Peterborough, I don't think a well organised GOTV operation matters very much in a by-election held straight after the EU elections. The bandwagon effect will bring out support for the main protest party (currently TBP) even in places where it has little organisation (viz Croydon NW or Warrington in 1981, Bermondsey or Hillhead in 1982, Leicester South in 2003).
Based on current polling, the combined Conservative and Labour vote shares will drop by 35 - 40% , creating a huge amount of space for a protest vote. I doubt if UKIP or the SDP will get more than penny packets of support, so I think the Brexit party should be slight favourites.
> Farage is still good, but you can see the direction he is going. He is relying more and more on lies and bluster and less on the quick thinking and humour he used to have in abundance. He will become a parody of himself. He should have quite while he was ahead.
I agree - except the last sentence.
I hope you're right and that this is peak Nigel but I fear his Trumpification might well work. I'm not sure. We will see. Question is, are there enough deplorables over here?
> >So asking who is the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM is now 'socialism'. > > >So asking whether the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM needs any of the skills of government is now 'socialism'. > >> So asking how the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM gets a majority in the HoC is now 'socialism'. > >> You've got no answers have you. > > I gave you my answer. Your approach just reminds me of socialism’s requirements which usually lead to stagnation. I don’t need to say who how or why, I just said what I’d like to see. > > Our argument is free market thinking vs socialist planning
So actual real world details and work and responsibility are for other people to take care of.
While you do the 'free thinking' without bothering about the who or the how or the why.
Well that's going to get things sorted out isn't it.
Mr. Ace, the rosbif/frog examples are ones of taking the piss.
I don't think they are comparable. Frog would be quite offensive to any French person unless you knew them very well.
I have never heard any Francophone ever use rosbif despite having spent my childhood in Brussels, having gone to university in France and having a house there so it's rendered inoffensive by being somewhat archaic and its sheer rarity.
> @initforthemoney said: > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > @initforthemoney said: > > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > > Anecdote alert: my mum is very fed up about the EU elections, she told me when she spontaneously brought up the subject yesterday. She’s going to spoil her ballot paper, writing something like Brexit means Brexit on the ballot paper: “lots of people are saying that they’re going to do that”. It had not crossed her mind to vote for the Brexit party: when I asked she told me that she holds Nigel Farage partly responsible for the current mess. > > > > > > Does she blame you as well? > > > > It didn’t come up in the conversation. She’s not shy about telling me where she thinks I go wrong. > > Is she aware of your sweeping generalisations regarding leavers or do you soften the tone at home?
You seem very interested in my family life. Perhaps you’d care to share a bit of information about yourself.
He's their Demon King. The BBC isn't just about chasing ratings, but ratings matter, and no one gets Disgusted of Canonbury worked up quite the way that he does.
> >So asking who is the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM is now 'socialism'.
>
> >So asking whether the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM needs any of the skills of government is now 'socialism'.
>
>> So asking how the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM gets a majority in the HoC is now 'socialism'.
>
>> You've got no answers have you.
>
> I gave you my answer. Your approach just reminds me of socialism’s requirements which usually lead to stagnation. I don’t need to say who how or why, I just said what I’d like to see.
>
> Our argument is free market thinking vs socialist planning
So actual real world details and work and responsibility are for other people to take care of.
While you do the 'free thinking' without bothering about the who or the how or the why.
Well that's going to get things sorted out isn't it.
Yes because I don’t have to know who it’s going to be, I just think that a big vote for a no deal party will tilt the balance away from the remainers who want a second referendum or to revoke A50, and someone will emerge to lead that after May. I don’t know party politicians well enough to be able to say who.
> @AlastairMeeks said: > > @initforthemoney said: > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > > @initforthemoney said: > > > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > > > Anecdote alert: my mum is very fed up about the EU elections, she told me when she spontaneously brought up the subject yesterday. She’s going to spoil her ballot paper, writing something like Brexit means Brexit on the ballot paper: “lots of people are saying that they’re going to do that”. It had not crossed her mind to vote for the Brexit party: when I asked she told me that she holds Nigel Farage partly responsible for the current mess. > > > > > > > > Does she blame you as well? > > > > > > It didn’t come up in the conversation. She’s not shy about telling me where she thinks I go wrong. > > > > Is she aware of your sweeping generalisations regarding leavers or do you soften the tone at home? > > You seem very interested in my family life. Perhaps you’d care to share a bit of information about yourself.
you were the one who brought your family life up to make a point. it seems you are reluctant to answer my question because it will lay bare your hypocrisy.
> @isam said: > > >So asking who is the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM is now 'socialism'. > > > > > > >So asking whether the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM needs any of the skills of government is now 'socialism'. > > > > > >> So asking how the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM gets a majority in the HoC is now 'socialism'. > > > > > >> You've got no answers have you. > > > > > > I gave you my answer. Your approach just reminds me of socialism’s requirements which usually lead to stagnation. I don’t need to say who how or why, I just said what I’d like to see. > > > > > > Our argument is free market thinking vs socialist planning > > > > So actual real world details and work and responsibility are for other people to take care of. > > > > While you do the 'free thinking' without bothering about the who or the how or the why. > > > > Well that's going to get things sorted out isn't it. > > Yes because I don’t have to know who it’s going to be, I just think that a big vote for a no deal party will tilt the balance away from the remainers who want a second referendum or to revoke A50, and someone will emerge to lead that after May. I don’t know party politicians well enough to be able to say who.
No deal is a suicide note for the Tories . If you want a Corbyn win at the next GE then no deal delivers that.
> @initforthemoney said: > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > @initforthemoney said: > > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > > > @initforthemoney said: > > > > > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > > > > Anecdote alert: my mum is very fed up about the EU elections, she told me when she spontaneously brought up the subject yesterday. She’s going to spoil her ballot paper, writing something like Brexit means Brexit on the ballot paper: “lots of people are saying that they’re going to do that”. It had not crossed her mind to vote for the Brexit party: when I asked she told me that she holds Nigel Farage partly responsible for the current mess. > > > > > > > > > > Does she blame you as well? > > > > > > > > It didn’t come up in the conversation. She’s not shy about telling me where she thinks I go wrong. > > > > > > Is she aware of your sweeping generalisations regarding leavers or do you soften the tone at home? > > > > You seem very interested in my family life. Perhaps you’d care to share a bit of information about yourself. > > you were the one who brought your family life up to make a point. it seems you are reluctant to answer my question because it will lay bare your hypocrisy. > > i'm left handed.
I told an anecdote. You took that as a cue to pry into my family life and make untrue assertions about me to make an unhinged point. Take your left hand and stick it where the sun doesn’t shine.
From Farage's remarks it rather sounds as if the BBC has been ignoring the Brexit Party rallies . That is good news because it implies that the rules restricting coverage by Broadcasters during election campaigns have kicked in. Has ITN responded in the same way?
> @Cyclefree said: > > @ydoethur said: > > > > @ydoethur said: > > > > > > > @Big_G_NorthWales > > > > > > > > You voted for Farage !!!!!!! > > > > > > > Almost but not quite. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > With all his many faults Farage is not quite like Corbyn. > > > > > > > > > > > > The two are matching ugly bookends. > > > > > > They're both pandering to racist scumbags, both disturbingly close to rogue foreign governments, both dense as five posts, both putting forward impossible dreams based on their personal fantasies of a mythical past utopia and both have an almost cult-like following. > > > > > > But - please correct me if I am wrong - Farage has never supported or been an apologist for terrorists. > > > > He has not one but two MEP candidates who supported the IRA’s bombing campaigns. > > > > Of course, he’s picking up his rifle himself. > > They are both equally malign. > > Farage’s economic policy - insofar as one can be discerned - a No Deal Brexit - is likely to do very serious damage to our economy and peoples’ jobs. He is just as willing as Corbyn to perpetrate anti-semitic tropes. He seems to have a fondness for authoritarian illiberal leaders. > > And his party’s funding is obscure. More money is being spent than the amount given by one known donor. Plus the way he has set up his party - with no structure so that it simply revolves around him is odd and pretty undemocratic for someone who claims to believe in democracy. At the risk of invoking the Godwin rule, it has a hint of the Fuehrerprinzip about it. > > There is little to choose between them. Both are examples of illiberal politicians who are helping to normalise - within their parties first and then in society - some deeply unpleasant, hateful and illberal ways of thinking that have in the past brought misery to millions. There is no reason to think that their approach to politics will be any more successful in the future.
do you ever wonder why people have been driven to vote for them ?
- the BP are 1st among male voters; - the BP gain more Labour GE voters than LD/CUK/Green combined for the euros; - clean break Brexit beats Remain; - 35% of Labour voters who expressed a preference favour leave in one form or another; - 77% of Tories do;
> @Dura_Ace said: > Mr. Ace, the rosbif/frog examples are ones of taking the piss. > > > I don't think they are comparable. Frog would be quite offensive to any French person unless you knew them very well. > > I have never heard any Francophone ever use rosbif despite having spent my childhood in Brussels, having gone to university in France and having a house there so it's rendered inoffensive by being somewhat archaic and its sheer rarity.
> @isam said: > > Yes because I don’t have to know who it’s going to be, I just think that a big vote for a no deal party will tilt the balance away from the remainers who want a second referendum or to revoke A50, and someone will emerge to lead that after May. I don’t know party politicians well enough to be able to say who.
Hoping that Parliament will now pass the WA agreement is one thing.
Comments
> https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1127502564453421056
>
>
>
> She looks like she is about to press out a shit after eating nothing but cheese for a week.
Good British cheese, naturally.
Boris has enough MPs to: "I think, to guarantee a place in the final two, from whom party members will choose."
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-tory-leadership-campaign-theresa-may-graham-brady-a8909421.html
> > @nico67 said:
> > Farage car crash on Marr .
> >
> > Shows him up for the lying spiv he is .
>
> BREXIT party voters dont watch Marr
Does it clash with Jeremy Kyle?
Farage talking to his base and the disaffected across the political spectrum not the Metropolitan elite. IMO a clear win for Farage.
https://twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1127505834404122625
> Cameron and May aren't fit to be compared with Lloyd George.
>
That is unfair on Cameron and May.
Have you read any biography of Lloyd George? He was (by the end) very clearly highly corrupt.
The biographies by his family members, some of whom clearly loathed him, are best.
He always reminds me of Blair -- someone who believed in nothing and by the end of his life had turned his back on anything he had ever believed in during his youth.
> Anecdote alert: my mum is very fed up about the EU elections, she told me when she spontaneously brought up the subject yesterday. She’s going to spoil her ballot paper, writing something like Brexit means Brexit on the ballot paper: “lots of people are saying that they’re going to do that”. It had not crossed her mind to vote for the Brexit party: when I asked she told me that she holds Nigel Farage partly responsible for the current mess.
Does she blame you as well?
I appreciate that ardent Leavers may feel he and the Brexit party are the necessary route to achieving a proper Brexit, but blimey you're playing with fire; he's a very dangerous man. Marr exposed Farage's true colours on a wide range of topics.
I fear those who think Farage can be used to achieve a 'clean Brexit' then discarded are going to regret it.
>
> Ooh touchy!
No - just pointing out that your spouting vague fantasies rather than dealing with the details of reality.
And that's what underlies the problems of our politics - people don't want to bother with the details of reality.
> I would take a counter view on the Marr/Farage interview.
>
> Farage talking to his base and the disaffected across the political spectrum not the Metropolitan elite. IMO a clear win for Farage.
In which case his base are happy to accept that he’s a liar . Farage is in it for Farage , anyone who thinks he gives a toss about poor left behind Communities is deluded .
> And although it no longer looks like they will top the EP elections, it has generally worked in the 'so long as we lose less than the Tories we win' strategy. The core vote simultaneously seems to grumble that the leadership is not remain enough, while being utterly convinced Labour as a whole will campaign for and seek remain.
There is of course a Reckoning coming for Labour.
Maybe the best way out for the Tories is to make Corbyn PM without permitting him a General Election.
Can they do that?
But go with your gut.
Quite soft socialism, of course, since the EU won't permit the Class A.
> https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1127502564453421056
Hovering over a toilet in Bologna
> .Reading all the complaints about the BBC giving airtime to Farage, it seems to me that they wouldn't give him coverage if lefties didn't react like Pavlov's dogs every time he appears.
>
> He retired from politics in 2016 and was barely on tv for three years. All the establishment had to do to keep it that way was honour the referendum result
The Farage who in January 2018 was talking about a second referendum ?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42649214
The Farage who opposes May's Deal ?
Tiger Roll is a gelding, so not as well hung has he might have been, just saying.
> > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > Anecdote alert: my mum is very fed up about the EU elections, she told me when she spontaneously brought up the subject yesterday. She’s going to spoil her ballot paper, writing something like Brexit means Brexit on the ballot paper: “lots of people are saying that they’re going to do that”. It had not crossed her mind to vote for the Brexit party: when I asked she told me that she holds Nigel Farage partly responsible for the current mess.
>
> Does she blame you as well?
It didn’t come up in the conversation. She’s not shy about telling me where she thinks I go wrong.
The interview seemed successful to me however - no car crash.
> Cameron and May aren't fit to be compared with Lloyd George.
>
>
>
> Still trying to work out who speaks for Labour on Brexit, Adonis or Gardiner, one claims Labour is for Remain, the other Leave.
>
> I believe they call it constructive ambiguity.
>
>
> And although it no longer looks like they will top the EP elections, it has generally worked in the 'so long as we lose less than the Tories we win' strategy. The core vote simultaneously seems to grumble that the leadership is not remain enough, while being utterly convinced Labour as a whole will campaign for and seek remain.
Labour's strategy may have reached the point of not working.
> > @isam said:
>
> >
>
> > Ooh touchy!
>
>
>
> No - just pointing out that your spouting vague fantasies rather than dealing with the details of reality.
>
>
>
> And that's what underlies the problems of our politics - people don't want to bother with the details of reality.
>
> You’re not going to get me to answer your questions by doling out insults I can tell you that 😘
You're not going to answer the questions because you don't have any answers.
> One thing is now very, very clear.
>
>
>
> If the Tory party fails to Brexit in some form, it will lose in 2022 or before, possibly bigly.
>
>
>
> So, if we end up Remaining, then we will get PM Corbyn.
>
> Yes. The mouthwatering Remain Socialism double is ON.
>
> Quite soft socialism, of course, since the EU won't permit the Class A.
OTOH you may get hard Brexit and a more right wing government. It's double or quits.
> Just watched the Farage interview on Marr.
>
> I appreciate that ardent Leavers may feel he and the Brexit party are the necessary route to achieving a proper Brexit, but blimey you're playing with fire; he's a very dangerous man. Marr exposed Farage's true colours on a wide range of topics.
>
> I fear those who think Farage can be used to achieve a 'clean Brexit' then discarded are going to regret it.
His record suggests that Farage is the one who does the discarding when he achieves what he wants (& that won't involve him shuffling off into obscurity).
Of course, there's no sign of agreement since why would Labour seek to stem the Tory implosion in advance of the elections, and the Tories are too divided to do anything that would enable an agreement even if they want to, as May and co clearly do.
Given we are already up to May I can see a chance the parliament makes it to 2020, but not ekeing it out until 2022.
> Doesn't surprise me. I am voting LD at the Euros.
Excellent news.
> Here's a better idea - how about somebody getting Vanilla to sort out the lack of blockquotes on the PB.com site?
That's also a good idea, but until it's done we just have to fall back on old-school trimming. Just imagine it's 1993.
HP sauce!
> I would take a counter view on the Marr/Farage interview.
>
>
>
> Farage talking to his base and the disaffected across the political spectrum not the Metropolitan elite. IMO a clear win for Farage.
>
> https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/1127509766140518400
>
>
>
> His whole thread should be read. Not that anyone in the major parties would pay a blind bit of notice.
To Harry Cole? No they wouldn't. He gives Milo Yiannopoulos a run for his money.
>
> It’s a beautiful morning but the bait shop is CLOSED and my breakfast is ready
LOL
Is that all you've got ?
> Farage's comments about the EU beating down our door for a trade deal post no deal Brexit are a palpable nonsense given they haven't done one with the USA yet.
>
>
>
> The interview seemed successful to me however - no car crash.
>
> Not so successful for Marr though.
Marr was OK - Farage plays the interview game (via the Trump playbook) better than average though.
Pine is not Elm.
edit - they are inverted!
> > @initforthemoney said:
> > > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > > Anecdote alert: my mum is very fed up about the EU elections, she told me when she spontaneously brought up the subject yesterday. She’s going to spoil her ballot paper, writing something like Brexit means Brexit on the ballot paper: “lots of people are saying that they’re going to do that”. It had not crossed her mind to vote for the Brexit party: when I asked she told me that she holds Nigel Farage partly responsible for the current mess.
> >
> > Does she blame you as well?
>
> It didn’t come up in the conversation. She’s not shy about telling me where she thinks I go wrong.
Is she aware of your sweeping generalisations regarding leavers or do you soften the tone at home?
> > @SquareRoot said:
>
> > Doesn't surprise me. I am voting LD at the Euros.
>
>
>
> Excellent news.
>
> wasted vote you mean, lying donkey party is useless
...and a very good morning to you too!
Farage’s economic policy - insofar as one can be discerned - a No Deal Brexit - is likely to do very serious damage to our economy and peoples’ jobs. He is just as willing as Corbyn to perpetrate anti-semitic tropes. He seems to have a fondness for authoritarian illiberal leaders.
And his party’s funding is obscure. More money is being spent than the amount given by one known donor. Plus the way he has set up his party - with no structure so that it simply revolves around him is odd and pretty undemocratic for someone who claims to believe in democracy. At the risk of invoking the Godwin rule, it has a hint of the Fuehrerprinzip about it.
There is little to choose between them. Both are examples of illiberal politicians who are helping to normalise - within their parties first and then in society - some deeply unpleasant, hateful and illberal ways of thinking that have in the past brought misery to millions. There is no reason to think that their approach to politics will be any more successful in the future.
The current Labour leadership genuinely don’t believe in private property, to them any assets they consider to be ‘undeserved’ are fair game.
> >
> Labour's strategy may have reached the point of not working.
>
> In what way? Sure their polling is taking a hit too, but the Tories are on the point of imminent collapse and spend all their time insulting each other.
But, that's mostly true of Labour as well. The Conservative and Labour parties need each other to give their supporters something to vote against. When support for one rises, so does support for the other. When support for one falls, so does the other. It's like the relationship between Sinn Fein and the DUP.
The collapse of the Tories in the polls and the council elections,followed by what are likely to be dismal results in the euros and Peterborough has served notice on them.
This needs to be combined with Labour doing badly in the North and Midlands, which happened at the council elections. This will exert increased pressure on the bloc of 25-30 MPs sitting in Leave seats who are anti-referendum.
Then replacing remainer MP Fiona Onasanya with a leaver would be the icing on the cake.
The EU may well see it's own eurosceptic element flourish in two weeks' time and the integrationists like Macron and Verhofstadt may well find that adding Brexiteers to it's own increasingly fractured parliament is one disruption and threat too many.
Little Englander is just talking down to people who have the temerity to hold what's deemed the wrong view (the equivalent of 'basket of deplorables').
> > @isam said:
>
> >
>
> > It’s a beautiful morning but the bait shop is CLOSED and my breakfast is ready
>
>
>
> LOL
>
>
>
> Is that all you've got ?
>
> The constant need for definition of where we will be in the future, how it will be achieved by rigid plans etc just makes me think of socialism to be honest.
So asking who is the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM is now 'socialism'.
So asking whether the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM needs any of the skills of government is now 'socialism'.
So asking how the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM gets a majority in the HoC is now 'socialism'.
You've got no answers have you.
Our argument is free market thinking vs socialist planning
> Mr. Ace, the rosbif/frog examples are ones of taking the piss.
>
> Little Englander is just talking down to people who have the temerity to hold what's deemed the wrong view (the equivalent of 'basket of deplorables').
But the alternative is to patronize by pretending the views are worthy of respect.
I think that's worse.
That's how Rolf Harris used to talk to kids.
I've been tempted to vote for them but (a) I don't favour a No Deal Brexit and (b) the Conservatives need my vote more.
> Morning all,
>
> I fear HS2 will be the first casualty of the forthcoming Tory leadership war.
Good.
> > @malcolmg said:
>
> > > @SquareRoot said:
>
> >
>
> > > Doesn't surprise me. I am voting LD at the Euros.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Excellent news.
>
> >
>
> > wasted vote you mean, lying donkey party is useless
>
>
>
> ...and a very good morning to you too!
>
> Good Morning Torby, stay away from those fibbers
Not a chance... I'm getting ever more involved.
Based on current polling, the combined Conservative and Labour vote shares will drop by 35 - 40% , creating a huge amount of space for a protest vote. I doubt if UKIP or the SDP will get more than penny packets of support, so I think the Brexit party should be slight favourites.
> Farage is still good, but you can see the direction he is going. He is relying more and more on lies and bluster and less on the quick thinking and humour he used to have in abundance. He will become a parody of himself. He should have quite while he was ahead.
I agree - except the last sentence.
I hope you're right and that this is peak Nigel but I fear his Trumpification might well work. I'm not sure. We will see. Question is, are there enough deplorables over here?
How big is our basket?
>
> >So asking whether the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM needs any of the skills of government is now 'socialism'.
>
>> So asking how the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM gets a majority in the HoC is now 'socialism'.
>
>> You've got no answers have you.
>
> I gave you my answer. Your approach just reminds me of socialism’s requirements which usually lead to stagnation. I don’t need to say who how or why, I just said what I’d like to see.
>
> Our argument is free market thinking vs socialist planning
So actual real world details and work and responsibility are for other people to take care of.
While you do the 'free thinking' without bothering about the who or the how or the why.
Well that's going to get things sorted out isn't it.
I have never heard any Francophone ever use rosbif despite having spent my childhood in Brussels, having gone to university in France and having a house there so it's rendered inoffensive by being somewhat archaic and its sheer rarity.
https://www.twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1127512293862985728
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/11/joe-biden-florida-1317604
This despite him being on their shows every bloody day of the week it seems.
> > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > > @initforthemoney said:
> > > > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > > > Anecdote alert: my mum is very fed up about the EU elections, she told me when she spontaneously brought up the subject yesterday. She’s going to spoil her ballot paper, writing something like Brexit means Brexit on the ballot paper: “lots of people are saying that they’re going to do that”. It had not crossed her mind to vote for the Brexit party: when I asked she told me that she holds Nigel Farage partly responsible for the current mess.
> > >
> > > Does she blame you as well?
> >
> > It didn’t come up in the conversation. She’s not shy about telling me where she thinks I go wrong.
>
> Is she aware of your sweeping generalisations regarding leavers or do you soften the tone at home?
You seem very interested in my family life. Perhaps you’d care to share a bit of information about yourself.
> https://twitter.com/e_casalicchio/status/1127527720534065154
>
> This despite him being on their shows every bloody day of the week it seems.
He's their Demon King. The BBC isn't just about chasing ratings, but ratings matter, and no one gets Disgusted of Canonbury worked up quite the way that he does.
> > @initforthemoney said:
> > > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > > > @initforthemoney said:
> > > > > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > > > > Anecdote alert: my mum is very fed up about the EU elections, she told me when she spontaneously brought up the subject yesterday. She’s going to spoil her ballot paper, writing something like Brexit means Brexit on the ballot paper: “lots of people are saying that they’re going to do that”. It had not crossed her mind to vote for the Brexit party: when I asked she told me that she holds Nigel Farage partly responsible for the current mess.
> > > >
> > > > Does she blame you as well?
> > >
> > > It didn’t come up in the conversation. She’s not shy about telling me where she thinks I go wrong.
> >
> > Is she aware of your sweeping generalisations regarding leavers or do you soften the tone at home?
>
> You seem very interested in my family life. Perhaps you’d care to share a bit of information about yourself.
you were the one who brought your family life up to make a point. it seems you are reluctant to answer my question because it will lay bare your hypocrisy.
i'm left handed.
> > >So asking who is the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM is now 'socialism'.
>
> >
>
> > >So asking whether the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM needs any of the skills of government is now 'socialism'.
>
> >
>
> >> So asking how the 'someone' you're calling for to be PM gets a majority in the HoC is now 'socialism'.
>
> >
>
> >> You've got no answers have you.
>
> >
>
> > I gave you my answer. Your approach just reminds me of socialism’s requirements which usually lead to stagnation. I don’t need to say who how or why, I just said what I’d like to see.
>
> >
>
> > Our argument is free market thinking vs socialist planning
>
>
>
> So actual real world details and work and responsibility are for other people to take care of.
>
>
>
> While you do the 'free thinking' without bothering about the who or the how or the why.
>
>
>
> Well that's going to get things sorted out isn't it.
>
> Yes because I don’t have to know who it’s going to be, I just think that a big vote for a no deal party will tilt the balance away from the remainers who want a second referendum or to revoke A50, and someone will emerge to lead that after May. I don’t know party politicians well enough to be able to say who.
No deal is a suicide note for the Tories . If you want a Corbyn win at the next GE then no deal delivers that.
> > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > > @initforthemoney said:
> > > > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > > > > @initforthemoney said:
> > > > > > @AlastairMeeks said:
> > > > > > Anecdote alert: my mum is very fed up about the EU elections, she told me when she spontaneously brought up the subject yesterday. She’s going to spoil her ballot paper, writing something like Brexit means Brexit on the ballot paper: “lots of people are saying that they’re going to do that”. It had not crossed her mind to vote for the Brexit party: when I asked she told me that she holds Nigel Farage partly responsible for the current mess.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does she blame you as well?
> > > >
> > > > It didn’t come up in the conversation. She’s not shy about telling me where she thinks I go wrong.
> > >
> > > Is she aware of your sweeping generalisations regarding leavers or do you soften the tone at home?
> >
> > You seem very interested in my family life. Perhaps you’d care to share a bit of information about yourself.
>
> you were the one who brought your family life up to make a point. it seems you are reluctant to answer my question because it will lay bare your hypocrisy.
>
> i'm left handed.
I told an anecdote. You took that as a cue to pry into my family life and make untrue assertions about me to make an unhinged point. Take your left hand and stick it where the sun doesn’t shine.
I predict a ri ... big turnout.
> > @ydoethur said:
>
> > > @ydoethur said:
>
> >
>
> > > @Big_G_NorthWales
>
> >
>
> > > > You voted for Farage !!!!!!!
>
> >
>
> > > Almost but not quite.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > With all his many faults Farage is not quite like Corbyn.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The two are matching ugly bookends.
>
> >
>
> > They're both pandering to racist scumbags, both disturbingly close to rogue foreign governments, both dense as five posts, both putting forward impossible dreams based on their personal fantasies of a mythical past utopia and both have an almost cult-like following.
>
> >
>
> > But - please correct me if I am wrong - Farage has never supported or been an apologist for terrorists.
>
>
>
> He has not one but two MEP candidates who supported the IRA’s bombing campaigns.
>
>
>
> Of course, he’s picking up his rifle himself.
>
> They are both equally malign.
>
> Farage’s economic policy - insofar as one can be discerned - a No Deal Brexit - is likely to do very serious damage to our economy and peoples’ jobs. He is just as willing as Corbyn to perpetrate anti-semitic tropes. He seems to have a fondness for authoritarian illiberal leaders.
>
> And his party’s funding is obscure. More money is being spent than the amount given by one known donor. Plus the way he has set up his party - with no structure so that it simply revolves around him is odd and pretty undemocratic for someone who claims to believe in democracy. At the risk of invoking the Godwin rule, it has a hint of the Fuehrerprinzip about it.
>
> There is little to choose between them. Both are examples of illiberal politicians who are helping to normalise - within their parties first and then in society - some deeply unpleasant, hateful and illberal ways of thinking that have in the past brought misery to millions. There is no reason to think that their approach to politics will be any more successful in the future.
do you ever wonder why people have been driven to vote for them ?
- the BP are 1st among male voters;
- the BP gain more Labour GE voters than LD/CUK/Green combined for the euros;
- clean break Brexit beats Remain;
- 35% of Labour voters who expressed a preference favour leave in one form or another;
- 77% of Tories do;
> Mr. Ace, the rosbif/frog examples are ones of taking the piss.
>
>
> I don't think they are comparable. Frog would be quite offensive to any French person unless you knew them very well.
>
> I have never heard any Francophone ever use rosbif despite having spent my childhood in Brussels, having gone to university in France and having a house there so it's rendered inoffensive by being somewhat archaic and its sheer rarity.
Last recorded usage around 1748, I believe:
https://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/hogarth-o-the-roast-beef-of-old-england-the-gate-of-calais-n01464
What I will say is that by quite a distance I prefer Nigel Farage to Piers Morgan.
> Konnie Huq seems to think we still have a coal mining industry
Details ?
I assume you mean Rupa Huq and not her better known sister.
>
> Yes because I don’t have to know who it’s going to be, I just think that a big vote for a no deal party will tilt the balance away from the remainers who want a second referendum or to revoke A50, and someone will emerge to lead that after May. I don’t know party politicians well enough to be able to say who.
Hoping that Parliament will now pass the WA agreement is one thing.
Hoping for some vague fantasy is another.
> Just voted in Euros.
>
> Pen hovering between BREXIT party and Labour
>
> Sense prevailed.
>
Surprised you even considered it - a vote for Farage would be little different to a vote for Oswald Mosley.